Tokens Are the New Dollars | Stripe's Will Gaybrick & David George

a16z General Partner David George is joined by Will Gaybrick, President of Product & Business at Stripe, to discuss how AI is changing the way Stripe builds products, organizes teams, and thinks about the future of internet commerce. Stripe has evolved from a payments company into a multi-product financial infrastructure platform, while a new generation of AI companies is growing and monetizing faster than previous software cohorts. Will explains why Stripe sees AI productivity as an opportunity to build more rather than simply cut costs, including how its internal coding agents now generate thousands of pull requests each week. They discuss creating founder-like agency inside large companies, building smaller and flatter teams, and why Stripe believes dramatically more software will be created as the cost of building continues to fall. They also look ahead to agentic commerce, why checkout pages could disappear, the potential return of micropayments, stablecoins as infrastructure for a global economy, and a future where AI agents increasingly buy software and services from other machines. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 01:00 - What Is Stripe Today 08:00 - The AI Cohort Explosion: 50% More Signups & Software Creation Booming 14:25 - Stripe Minions: From 1,200 to 7,000 PRs a Week 19:24 - Build Everything: Going Long vs Going Short on Your Future 28:00 - Agentic Commerce: The Missing Primitives 37:28 - Stablecoins & the Global Money Movement Platform 49:00 - Scaling Taste at Stripe Resources: Follow Will Gaybrick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-gaybrick-5730347/ Follow Will on X: https://x.com/gaybrick Follow David George on X: https://x.com/DavidGeorge83 Follow Stripe on X: https://x.com/stripe Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see http://a16z.com/disclosures.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you want to ship more and build faster, you have to create a founder-like agency inside your company. A single engineer can do what two teams of engineers could do two years ago. Suddenly, the market opportunity landscape is just much broader, and you can do more with software.

• 0:16David George?

  How do you guys ship so much product?

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Companies have skewed in that direction, where they've seen this new agentic efficiency and power as a way to optimize cost structure. Our belief, I'm being a little cheeky, but build everything? Yes. The Opus 45 Cambrian explosion moment. We haven't had that in agentic commerce today. And there's a few reasons for that. One is we are merging so much more code than last year and is stressing every system. So we created something called Stripe minions. You're not going to iterate, not go into planning mode. You're just going to say, this is what I want, go do it. That's kind of where the world is going.

• 0:55David George?

  You guys are, I think, over 2 trillion of volume now. What do you think is sort of the future state of how we all access models and tokens?

• 1:03Speaker 00

  I'm very bullish on...

• 1:05Speaker 02

  AI is making engineers dramatically more productive. Stripe's response isn't to build the same things with fewer people. It's to build more. In this episode, A16Z general partner David George sits down with Stripe's Will Gabrick to unpack how AI is changing the way one of the world's largest technology companies builds. They discuss Stripe's internal coding agents, which recently generated 7,000 poll requests in a single week, why teams are becoming smaller and flatter, and how Stripe is trying to give engineers the kind of agency traditionally associated with founders. Then they look at what all this new software means for commerce itself. From AI agents buying software from other agents, to micropayments, stable coins, and why Will believes the checkout page

• 1:50Speaker 02

  will eventually disappear altogether.

• 1:55David George?

  I want to start with just a state of Stripe.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:00David George?

  So what is Stripe today? And when we originally invested, it's a payment processor. But now, I think the average AI company uses 11 different Stripe products. And at Sessions, I believe you had 288 distinct product launches. So I want to talk about velocity also, but just to start with, just what is the state of Stripe today?

• 2:19Speaker 00

  So internally, we think about Stripe as having inverted our value proposition from being a payments company with sort of add-ons to now being this multi-product platform, where everything sort of focuses on financial infrastructure, helping you grow by reducing the friction and increasing the agency to be more agile with your business model, to operate in more countries, and just go faster when it comes to everything that touches revenue and cash. So just practically speaking, went from payments to then billing, subscriptions, and invoicing. Connect, if you're a platform or marketplace. Radar, for detecting fraud. Radar now for doing many more things than that.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Taxes. Just, I think, we don't actually count, but somewhere in and around 25, 30 products that are sort of headlining branded products. And then, of course, hundreds and thousands of features below that. But again, the framework we think about is really reducing frictions and increasing agency. So a good example, last year, we saw a lot of users, for the first time, experiencing free trial abuse. And this wasn't really an issue pre-AI, because most Stripe users are software companies.

• 3:33David George?

  Yeah, high cost margins.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:35David George?

  Token burden wasn't there.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, so they're wasting a little compute, but it's negligible, it's minimalist. But now, software has a cost structure. And so actually, I think Cursor was the first user that we...

• 3:45David George?

  I was going to say, it was our portfolio where we first experienced it. And I guess internet users can be crafty, but yes.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. And I think it was something like 1 in 6 users of free trials were abusive. And so you're just throwing money at these users who are just signing up for another account, another account, another account, maybe even doing model distillation and things like that. And so we sort of got in the bunker with them and just stood up in a weekend, a pipeline, where we were able to use our foundation model, look across the entire Stripe network, use our embeddings, and then, after that, put a reasoning layer on top of it so you could sort of say, we think this is a free trial abuser because, and point to those signals. And I think it's today, I think it's 11 labs recently told us that they're blocking 2,000 free trial abusers per day

• 4:37Speaker 00

  using Stripe signals.

• 4:38David George?

  Incredible.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  So you're just thinking about how much money you'd be burning if you were... Well, how much money you wouldn't, how much revenue you wouldn't be creating if you weren't getting these free trials.

• 4:46David George?

  Exactly. Yeah, the false positives and the false... Yeah, exactly.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  Exactly. And then on the increasing agency side, it's still just so hard to go global. You have to think about having to register, calculate, remit taxes in so many geographies. And this new crop of AI companies, the digital goods companies, and they want to just go global very fast. And so I guess Ahrefs is a good example. They're using this product Stripe Managed Payments, where in their home markets, the US, let's say they have an entity in Europe, they are the seller of record. But in long-tail markets, you know, the Kazakhsans and all over APAC, where they haven't sort of entities, Stripe stands in as the actual merchant of record. We handle all tax calculation, tax remittance, and everything like that.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  And so this just lets them cover 100-plus geographies and compliantly.

• 5:36David George?

  Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and if you go back to the fraud example, if you identify abusive actors, there's actually a network effect in that business, right? Which is super powerful. And obviously, we appreciate it as investors and many of the companies who benefited from it. So if you look at the product set today, obviously, the origin of Stripe was startups. And so you can very easily stand up payments, sell stuff online. And then famously, part of the beauty of Stripe's growth and business model is that you captured companies like DoorDash and Instacart when they were in NYC. And then you grew with them along the way. How do you think about the product strategy

• 6:18David George?

  as it relates to serving startups versus serving large enterprises now?

• 6:23Speaker 00

  So I think there's actually Colin at Clerk who summarized our strategy nicely on X recently, where he said, "Stripe's strategy is unabashed," I'm paraphrasing his words, "but it's win all the startups and then win them again."

• 6:35David George?

  Yes.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  And I think to some extent, that's just a good business model, because startups are very ambitious. They typically grow into the biggest companies of tomorrow. They're sort of canaries for what the next opportunity is, so on. Another subtle reason to win all the startups and win them again is they actually have the highest standards of all of our customers. I looked recently at the CSAT for Stripe's reporting. And for our very, very large enterprise users, "Your reporting is great. We love the data you give us. It's way better than anything we get from any of our other..."

• 7:06David George?

  Because they're accustomed to the incumbents, yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Exactly. And then you look at it for startups, "Your reporting is garbage. You have got to fix this. This is driving me crazy." And so there's this persistent sense that startups just make us better by being the fastest, by being most demanding, and so on. But of course, once we start working with the startups, we want to work with them forever. And so this pulls us up market and forces us to become as surprisingly great. That's the standard we try to hold ourselves to for enterprises as for startups. And now we're working with, I don't know what the exact percentage is today, but it's not quite half, but we're getting there. Fortune 500 companies. We work, of course, with the Amazons, the world, Microsofts. And at the enterprise, it's sort of a different sales cycle. It's a different post-sale activation motion.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  It's a lot more required after you've already signed the contract, whereas startups sort of go live like that. But fundamentally, it's the same thing. Just stay close to the user, you hear their needs, you show that you're sort of provably better when it comes to the metrics they care about. And yeah, so it's really both at this stage.

• 8:09David George?

  Yeah, win them and then win them again. I love that. That's a great, that's a great dynamic. I want to shift gears. So I think you guys publicly said that first half signups grew 50% year over year. And that the median 26 cohort is generating 50% more revenue than the comparable 25 cohort. So, and then I think the 25 cohort was generating 70% more revenue than the comparable 24 cohort. So what has changed?

• 8:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I think two things. One is giving rise to so much opportunity for new business creation. There's just things you couldn't do before that you can do now. You couldn't build a Suno four years ago, or you could maybe build a much worse Suno four years ago. You couldn't build a Higgs field four years ago. There's just new things that you can do. And so suddenly, the market opportunity landscape is just much broader, and you can do more with software. On the other side, the sort of cost of doing more software has decreased a lot, because you just need many fewer engineers to build the things that you want to build because of agentic coding. And so we're just seeing this explosion in new software creation.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  When you look at the year-on-year increase in usage of Stripe billing, it's actually a lot higher than usage of Stripe overall, because it disproportionately skews towards people creating software companies.

• 9:34David George?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. That's awesome to hear. I want to shift now to some of the products that we talked about, right? So you have this proliferation of new products to serve all the needs of companies online. The high-level question is like, how do you do that? Like, how do you guys ship so much product?

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, speed has always been near the top. Maybe user, relentless focus on users, probably the top.

• 10:02David George?

  Yeah, of course.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Exactly. But speed is right up there. And it's interesting. I think a lot about institutional progress. And we study the great companies that have come before us and now are beside us. The Amazons are still around, of course. But you look at Stripe and you'd say, "Okay, well, we have sort of an adaptive, adaptive version of how we set goals that's quite similar to Google's OKRs."

• 10:27David George?

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  You know, our sales team is organized pretty similarly to Microsoft's. You know, we have a DRI culture similar to Apple's, and we have a product quality standard and how we do our product reviews is similar to theirs. You know, a lot of the day-to-day mechanisms that I use to sort of run the business, I've basically stolen from Alan Mulally, the former CEO of Ford and Boeing Aviation. And so we study these companies and we try to bring it all into Stripe. And we think about just, how do we create an enduring institution that can sort of outlast any of us? Because it's a great container for entrepreneurship.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  And then you sort of reach today and there's just no one to copy. What do you do when, you know, a single engineer can do what, you know, two teams of engineers could do two years ago? And, you know, sort of the theory of mind right now is that Stripe needs to become more than it ever has been before. A platform for founders internally and it's always been a platform for founders externally.

• 11:34David George?

  Yeah, of course, the customers. Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  Exactly. And founders have always done incredibly well at Stripe. You know, we actually was an interesting company, Metronome.

• 11:41David George?

  Yeah, of course.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  We acquired Metronome last year and Scott Woody, the CEO is thriving at Stripe. He's leading, yeah, leading all of, you know, Metronome and billing at this point. We acquired Privy, which is a wallet infrastructure company and Bridge over the last couple of years. And, you know, Henry is now leading most of crypto. Zach is leading OpenUSD and Bridge, of course.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Asta from Privy is leading up engineering for crypto. JR Farr from Lemon Squeezy is leading sort of treasury at this point. And so just founders have always done very well at Stripe. But now you have this very interesting moment where senior engineers are just so powerful.

• 12:24David George?

  Yes.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  And so you say, well, there's a few different ways our org could be shaped going forward. It could be that we just have many fewer engineers and maybe that's what the world will look like. And I think a lot of companies have skewed in that direction where they've seen this new, you know, agentic efficiency and power as a way to optimize cost structure. You've saw some layoffs, you saw, you know, companies shrinking OpEx.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  And our belief is that it's just an opportunity to, and being a little cheeky, but build everything.

• 12:59David George?

  Yes.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  And, you know, the best way to optimize your cost structure is to grow more.

• 13:05David George?

  Yes.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  We have reams of user asks going back many years that are unmet. And so we just want to get through them all faster. And so while we have, you know, more and more productivity from those senior engineers, if you want to ship more and build faster, you have to create a founder-like agency inside your company. And so the main things that are holding back our progress today are actually sort of back office things. You know, we are merging so much more code than last year and it is stressing every system. It is stressing, how do we get things into our seller systems? How do we get things onto our pricing page? How do I should bring things to market when we can't train sellers on them fast enough?

• 13:45Speaker 00

  And so we are really trying at this stage to optimize every single phase of, we think of it as sort of the critical path in Stripe from, you know, the ideas behind product development, the user asks all the way to products being in users' hands.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  And so, you know, to your question of how do you go faster? It's really two things. It's one, just how do you create that agency for everyone at Stripe? How do you let everyone at Stripe be an auteur, like a founder, you know, a creative? And not have them held back by the morass of, you know, centralized processes.

• 14:18David George?

  Yeah, exactly. Communication overhead. Yeah, exactly.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  Exactly. And on the other side, then, it's how do you, you know, with your DevProd team, just make the tools better and better and better.

• 14:29David George?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  So we created something called Stripe Minions, which we've blogged about a little bit. And, you know, of course, we've got tons of developer tooling to help users iterate with agents. But minions, we think of as, you know, the most, like one of our most important metrics internally is how many PRs and what percentage of our PRs are created by minions? And the reason for that is that minions are one-shot.

• 14:54David George?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  So you, you give it a prompt and, you know, it's going to build it. And then it's going to, you know, go through C I C D and all testing. And then you're going to review it. So if you're not going to iterate, not go into planning mode, you're just going to say, this is what I want. Go do it. And so we think, you know, that's kind of where the world is going. You know, it's the, the one-shot or the glorified Ralph loop. Where you're just letting the agent be super, super powerful. And so we blogged about minions, I think in January, February, and they were doing 1,200, you know, PRs per week. And last week, I think 7,000 PRs came from minions.

• 15:32David George?

  Wow.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. And about 30% of our PRs in that week came from minions. So, you know, that sort of developer tooling and then the internal processes just get out of the way and make the tools amazing. And that's how we're going to go fast.

• 15:47David George?

  That's amazing. In terms of empowering senior engineers who are now more powerful than ever, have you made any dramatic changes to how you organize the company internally? So obviously the minions example is incredible. And I assume the 30% is going to go to a very high percentage within a year or something. But some of the things that we've heard from other companies is taking your most powerful engineers, putting them into business units or closer to the customers. But then you have sort of coordination problems that come from that. So like, how have you guys approached that empowerment?

• 16:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. So engineers have always been, you know, some of the most important product leaders at Stripe. You know, we build for engineers, for technical users. Of course, we've built for many personas at this point, but engineers have always been sort of the hero, you know, ICP

• 16:36Speaker 00

  for Stripe. And so because of that, engineers have always been some combination of engineer, PM, designer. And so I think we're just leaning even more into that. You know, we're building tools and platforms so that engineers can sort of do a lot of the, the front-end development themselves and, and front-end design themselves.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Probably, you know, just the, the shortest answer to your question is flatter.

• 17:03David George?

  Yeah, flatter, smaller, some smaller teams.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  Smaller teams, flatter. You had, you know, a lot of layers that were sort of orchestrating work and very valuably so in most cases.

• 17:14David George?

  At the time, yeah.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Exactly. But you just don't need that anymore. I was talking to a, one of our most senior engineers recently. In fact, the guy who, who built Stripe projects, because Stripe projects was, you know, basically a PM and one of a very senior engineer and a few weeks. And a couple of other engineers who, who jumped in as well, so I want to give them due credit. But most of the PRs came from one guy, Alexander. Now he's just got a screen, he's orchestrating 16 agents and he's going a whole lot faster.

• 17:43David George?

  Yeah, that's amazing. Do you have a standard team size for projects like this? Is it like, we've gone around, it's like, okay, one, you know, one, there's no social dynamic. And so maybe that doesn't work. And, you know, four is probably the max size and we've heard everything in between. You have a view on it?

• 17:59Speaker 00

  Not really. I mean, we still have, I mean, you kind of want,

• 18:05Speaker 00

  in a flatter org, you both want wider teams, right? Because that means fewer layers of management. But then, you know, you also sort of believe you can have fewer people because each individual is, is more empowered these days. And so I think those forces are offsetting to some extent today. And in fact, it's, it's more like, you know, if you have a line managed team of eight people, they're just doing 3X more.

• 18:32David George?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  So you might have the same manager to, the manager to IC ratio, but the team is doing three things rather than one.

• 18:38David George?

  Yeah, that makes total sense. So one of the things that, you know, I have talked about is, and you touched on it, but I'd like to expand on a little more, is this idea that you can do all these new things with AI. And so where do you direct the efforts? And so you, you guys have very clearly directed the efforts toward the front-facing stuff. So building new products for customers. And lots of what is discussed in the market is back-end facing stuff. So optimizing your call structures, you said, everything is a markdown file. And, you know, let's, let's map out everything that everyone does in the organization and optimize it to death. Talk about your philosophy for why you want to go for the former and not the latter.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I think there was an, an early narrative and it still, you know, lingers for sure. And there's some truth to it of just, we have agents now, we should be more efficient. We should be able to do more with less. And, and the main thing I actually think about on this front is making our people more productive. We have a tool internally called Kai, which is our sort of knowledge AI tool. And we built it, I don't know, maybe six months ago, two people built it. Now 83% daily actives, or sorry, 83% weekly actives, about 60% daily actives at Stripe. Seller productivity has increased by 20%.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  But we're not saying, wow, we need fewer sellers. We're saying, so we need a lot more sellers, you know, just, you know.

• 20:10David George?

  The idea of payback of our sellers just got way better. We should have way more of them.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Exactly. And then on the flip side, you know, operational teams are just feeling much more productive. Their day-to-day life is, is more enjoyable. They're using better tools, they're having to do less, you know, manual work. And so, you know, it's almost trite in tech circles now, but the Jayvon's paradox, you know, an asset becomes more productive, you don't want less, you want more.

• 20:34David George?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 20:35Speaker 00

  And it is very much the case for us when it comes to engineers. You know, our engineers are just magnificently more productive. And so I mentioned earlier, just making Stripe a platform for founders, like internal platform for founders.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  You know, going forward, you could say, well, because engineers are so productive, there'll just be fewer engineers in the world. And I just really don't believe that. And that's not what we're seeing at all. You know, you see that much more software creation. We, you know, there was a narrative nine months ago about, you know, SaaS platforms and how they're, you know, vertical platforms, you know, how they were all going to struggle. Our new SaaS platform cohort is 103% larger than in 2026 than it was in 2025. So people are just saying, well, there's so many spaces that need a SaaS platform. I'm building it faster and faster and faster. And so I think there will be more software

• 21:30Speaker 00

  engineers in the world. We will need fewer of them to do the things we're already doing.

• 21:37David George?

  Right.

• 21:37Speaker 00

  And so Stripe then becomes for new grads and early career engineers, more of an incubator of come in, figure out a high agency project that can help our users. Let's get out of your way. Let's create the paved paths. Let's make it easy for you to go faster. And we should be able to just build more and more and more. And, you know, not just random things, but adjacencies that sort of compound what we're doing today. So spend management is adjacent to treasury, and that might have been roadmapped for two years from now. Instead, one engineer has picked it up as a project and they're just building it themselves. Actually, I wrote the first commit for it, but they're now, they're now running with it.

• 22:21David George?

  To more capable hands now.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Exactly. More capable hands. So yeah, we, we believe the big opportunity and the one that we're leaning into is doing more with what we have and over time, doing more with more.

• 22:35David George?

  Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I wrote a piece recently about founders being the asset class, like the representation of our market of late-stage venture, which you guys are probably at the forefront of. Founders are the asset class because founders are going to be the ones who enable the companies to find the next product areas. And so this idea that you have to make trade-offs today around, do we try and build new products for revenue or cut costs?

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 23:02David George?

  I think for companies like Stripe that are run by you guys, there's probably always going to be that next opportunity to create additional revenue opportunities, you know, find the new customer products that are a big hit. And that is never going to go away. You're always going to have the chance to build more.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely. I do think it's a good moment for company leaders to create some resourcing back pressure because that back pressure drives more efficient and more expansive use of new tools. But I also imagine that in the years ahead, we'll have a budgeting process that looks not that dissimilar from what it's been in the past of, we're doing so much with what we have. We can do even more if we continue to expand resourcing. But in this moment, I think it is a good time to say, well, let's really do a lot with what we have today because you still see increases in productivity from what you already have. Beyond that, you know, from a user's first standpoint, just there's so

• 23:57Speaker 00

  much more they want from us. You know, we've heard from, from a lot of users that for Stripe Tax, they want global filing. And it took us a long time to get to, you know, US filing on Stripe Tax, meaning that, you know, every state in the US will just automatically file for you. It's hard. It's a hard problem because you are dealing with so many different jurisdictions that accept filing in different ways. And so it took us a long time to get there. Global filing was the next ask. You know, we just don't want to have to think about this in any market. And we built that in about a third of the time that it took us to get to US filing.

• 24:34David George?

  Wow, with much greater complexity.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Exactly, much greater complexity. And so it's just like, you know, an infinite list of asks and opportunities like that. And so if you're just relentlessly focused on users, you're going to focus on that. We, we launched recently a product called Stripe Treasury. And it's an interesting moment in fintech right now, because I think there is sort of an unbundling of what banking means. And Stripe, you know, is not a bank, does not aspire to be a bank, but does aspire to provide your banking portal and help you with global money movement. This is something that we've, we've, we've been asked for, for a very long time. And so we built Stripe Treasury to allow our users to hold funds

• 25:16Speaker 00

  in dozens of currencies across many countries and, you know, just build what the banking portal should be able to do. And so, you know, we, we've, you know, focused on bringing this experience to users extremely quickly. And what we're finding in every case is that the timelines that we thought, you know, were, were the best doable two years ago are now being compressed again and again and again. And it's because the direction that we're finding from an agentic engineering standpoint is kind of akin to injection molding.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  You know, it's, it's a bit reductionist.

• 26:02David George?

  Yeah.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  But when you look at sort of the growth, things to package goods and toys and things like that, a lot of it just exploded post-war.

• 26:08David George?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 00

  And it was because we got really good in the 40s at melting plastic. You know, it's the injection molding screw that sort of, you know, melts plastic very evenly and, you know, sort of injects it into, you know, a metal casting. And that's sort of how we're doing code production at this point, you know, creating the mold and the templates. And you mentioned markdown files, like those are extremely, you need your agents' files in every repo. And as long as you create those patterns and you sort of understand the pattern of how you integrate with financial institutions, you can hand off so much load work to agents and they just get it done. And all of the time you end up spending is sort of in the backend at code review. But even then, agents are doing code review even

• 26:54Speaker 00

  better than humans did before.

• 26:55David George?

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  So just again, compressing timelines, it just feels like a much bigger opportunity than optimizing cost structure.

• 27:01David George?

  Yeah. I think you may be the first person to compare modern AI-based software engineering to injection molding. So this is, this is great. We're covering your ground. And I've actually been to an injection molding plant before.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

• 27:13David George?

  It's pretty amazing, especially when you think about the fact that it was probably 70 years ago that it was created.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  James Watson Hendry, I think was the guy.

• 27:21David George?

  Yeah, yeah. I've been in Pennsylvania.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, there you go.

• 27:23David George?

  Yeah, that's, that's great. You know, if you, you know, as an investor in Stripe, you know, a large investor in Stripe, another way that I think about what you just described is the opportunity to optimize cost is finite, right? You said long versus short.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:38David George?

  I really like.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. It's a, optimizing cost structure is going short, sort of your own future potential and just building faster, building more is going long, you know, your future potential.

• 27:48David George?

  It's like the capital allocation equivalent of, like, returning cash.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 27:53David George?

  As opposed to reinvesting cash.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:54David George?

  I, I got it. Okay. I want to shift over to a new topic, which you guys are on the cutting edge of and which gets a lot of play, but almost in like a nebulous sense. So I'd like to go a little bit deeper on it with you, which is sort of agents engaging in commerce on the internet. So what is the state of where we are today? What are the bottlenecks? And how do you sort of view a framework for how that could be done in the future?

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. So we are, and we talked about the Opus 4.5 Cambrian explosion moment. We haven't had that in agentic commerce today. Like, there isn't a, just, there aren't a ton of canonical use cases that you just see repeated over and over and over again. And there's a few reasons for that. One is we're missing primitives.

• 28:42David George?

  Right, yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  And just, that's something we're very focused on. You know, we, we created the tempo, the machine payments protocol, so that services can indicate, you know, what needs to be paid and how you can pay for it. So if you're selling, you know, an image or a piece of content online, you can request it and get a 402 response back. And it just says, like, here's how you buy me. So that's a primitive. Like, we think machines will want to buy from, from other machines. And there's usually questions like, what should checkout look like for agents? It's still sort of an open question. You know, browser automation is getting better, so maybe agents should just be, you know, crawling through checkout forms and fill them out. I think there's still a lot of open questions.

• 29:26David George?

  Yeah, that's like, yeah, that's the skeuomorphic version.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 29:29David George?

  There's going to be a native version, yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's right. I know that's right. So we're sort of at the missing primitives phase and we're sort of figuring that out. And then there's a sociological phase of just, in what ways will agentic commerce be better than non-agentic commerce?

• 29:47Speaker 00

  I think there's some very non speculative ways in which it'll be better. Like just checkout pages shouldn't exist for humans, you know, with Stripe Link and Shop with Shop Pay. It's very easy to get through a checkout page these days, but should you even need to go to one? Or should you just be able to say, buy it on a product display page? I think so. I think just checkout pages will go away.

• 30:12David George?

  That'll be the thing of the past.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think they'll go away. And so that's like a sort of non speculative, but maybe less ambitious form of agentic commerce.

• 30:20David George?

  I actually think that's interesting because you, they will go away for human users too. This is not just like only.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  I think they'll just go away.

• 30:26David George?

  Okay, so Stripe Link, like you have like 400 million users on Stripe Link and Shop Pay probably has some a relatively large number and then you can, you can use those and just automate the whole process.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Exactly. Yeah, we launched recently the Link Agent Wallet so that there's now just a Link CLI. So an agent can just sweep up link credentials and go use them with, you know, humans in the loop to say, how they can use them.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  I think one of the places we are the most excited about agentic commerce actually is B2B. So we launched Stripe Projects. Stripe Projects is, you know, a way to scaffold apps. And that's sort of the, the narrow definition of it. But the most exciting thing that Stripe Projects is, is a way to provision B2B services agentically. So you can go, an agent can go adopt Vercel for hosting and they can do it without you needing to go to Vercel.com and do anything.

• 31:18David George?

  This is, this has actually informed our investment thesis in a few investments recently. Their developer tools.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 31:23David George?

  And we say, okay, assume that the agents are going to be the shoppers in the future.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 31:27David George?

  Like, is this the one that the agents will want to pick?

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly, exactly. And that's a very good framework. You know, an agent can go adopt Browserbase. And we actually had a really great demo a while back at Stripe where we,

• 31:43Speaker 00

  we used Browserbase live to, with via an agent to fill out an NCAA bracket.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Which I thought was awesome because I have three brothers and, you know, we all love sports, but I'm always sort of too busy to engage in the family pools. And so it was so cool to just watch the agent, you know, pick up a Browserbase session and, you know, fire up ESPN.com and do a bit of research and just like fill it out.

• 32:07David George?

  How'd it do?

• 32:08Speaker 00

  I don't actually know. I don't think we ever sort of ran the evals on it, but.

• 32:12David George?

  I suspect probably as good as humans.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Probably better. Yeah, exactly. Probably better. And so I do think agents sort of adopting B2B or sort of B2C services that are more utilitarian will be very popular. And so today, again, as a primitive, we're just trying to make it easier for agents to adopt services.

• 32:35Speaker 00

  But I do think the sort of sociology will continue to evolve. You know, the, the long running tasks are not sort of,

• 32:45Speaker 00

  I don't know that we've sort of figured out exactly how to do them on the consumer side.

• 32:49David George?

  Yeah, it's not there yet.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  My, I was trying the other day, I was using a plug code to try to compose a song for my niece's birthday.

• 32:59David George?

  Oh.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was pretty cool. And, you know, in the past, without a Suno, I just like definitely wouldn't have done that.

• 33:06David George?

  Yep.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  With a Suno, I might do that. You might do it with a Higgs field as well. We were talking about them earlier. But I'm not sure that I want to go create a 1099 or 999 a month account with them. I just want the sort of micro consumption for that. And so, you know, along with the actual commerce primitives, I think there's these micro consumption APIs that need to sort to exist. And Browserbase we were talking about, they're sort of leaning into it. But I'm very bullish on, you know, all these services standing up, you know, sort of not necessarily anonymous, but just ephemeral or one time consumption. And I think that will really unlock agentic commerce too, because then you won't have to say, well, I need to pay these guys 10 bucks a month, but these guys 10 bucks a month.

• 33:48David George?

  You're getting great accounts and all this stuff. Yeah, just use the service and pay.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Agent, do this. Discover the services. Your budget is $15. Go.

• 33:56David George?

  My, my 10 year old has been creating rap songs. So, so I'm very familiar with all of these services. And, and by the way, you know, the, the quality is actually pretty good and he's, you know, he posts them on Spotify.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 34:08David George?

  But, but the execution maybe is not quite as good, but the lyrics are very good from AI. And the music itself is pretty good. So it's, yeah, I would welcome that. So the, the critical thing, I think, or one of the critical things that you just said is this concept of micropayments or microtransactions. So this has been something that has been talked about probably since the advent of the internet. As an opportunity, like, why do you think now it could work?

• 34:33Speaker 00

  Well, agents really increase human agency, I guess. It almost sounds, almost sounds redundant. But, you know, talking about these, these applications, composing a song for your niece, filling out your NCAA bracket, whatever else, it's really hard to do without agents. It takes a lot of time. You're creating all these different accounts. And so I'm just very bullish on services leaning into saying, you can use me ephemerally. You can use me in a very, you know, sort of lightweight way.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  And I think to make that work, you're just going to need to support microtransactions.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  I think the case against microtransactions has always been, well, you're trying to consume content. And if you're trying to sell an article, you're always going to be squeezed between the subscriber business model and the free business model.

• 35:27David George?

  Yeah, like you, you want to capture the excess as part of the subscriber.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  Exactly. You capture the excess or you do it with ads. And just like they're, one or the other is better than what you're doing. And I think that was probably true in the past, but as you give agents more complex tasks, you know, you want them to be these little sort of hummingbirds, like going around the internet, just surfing up a little data here, you know, pulling it over here, you know, some very transient ephemeral storage, doing a little compute over here. And you don't want the individual human to have to think about what they're using. You want them to think about what they're using in that these services are secure, right?

• 36:04David George?

  Right, of course.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  They're bona fide, but you don't want them to have to sort of create accounts everywhere. So I think microtransactions will just be necessary for that economy to exist, the sort of agentic economy. And then on the flip side, they're now eminently possible because of stablecoins.

• 36:20David George?

  Yeah.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  And stablecoins are today relatively unergonomic. So if you're a human, you know, you have to go jump through a bunch of hoops. But if you just give an agent a budget, they can easily, you know, take dollars, move into stables or, you know, just use a shared, a stored balance and find a way to check out. And they don't, they don't mind the sort of back and forth.

• 36:44David George?

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. And look, we've, we've seen that transition that's happened in a lot of software business models today, right? Like the predominant business model of selling subscriptions and seats. And, you know, we've now seen a shift to consumption. And I think, you know, there's probably analogies where, you know, the consumers are better off because they can get access to more stuff. And then the businesses can access more people, which they otherwise couldn't access from a different service. So my hope is that that, you know, that does come into play. So on the topic of stablecoins, so we've covered sort of how you guys build software, how you move so fast in an AI development world. You know, we've talked about the idea of commerce, you know, agentic commerce.

• 37:27David George?

  Talk about stablecoins. Like you said, there's a lot of friction in the process today, but just state, state of the stablecoin market and what you see the opportunity to be for the next, call it five years.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  So I'm an infrastructure nerd, so I always will go there first. And stablecoins are just a better platform for moving money than exists otherwise.

• 37:47David George?

  I strongly agree.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  And better for a couple of reasons. You know, there are certain countries that have, you know, rolled out really good payment systems. Most of them are nationalized, you know, UPI in, in India. Actually, it's interesting when you look at these economies, the percentage of sub $5 payments in India, I believe is, on UPI is, I think, something like 86%, whereas in the US, cards, I think it's single digits percent. So, you know, there's some good, cheap, fast payment schemes that are nationalized. Pix, another one, which has grown mediocrally.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  But you need a shelling point for the global economy, right?

• 38:30David George?

  Right.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Just what can we all agree on? And that's where Crypto Rails solved this political problem, where it's just this platform works everywhere. And so if we just all used it, the world, the global financial system would work better, be faster, be cheaper and so on. So if we all like went to sleep tonight and woke up tomorrow and we all held stables, it would just be a better global.

• 38:52David George?

  Less friction and less cost.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 38:53David George?

  In the economy.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Now, that might be one of those should work this way, may never work this way problems. And so we are sort of resolutely focused on trying to change that. We talked earlier about Stripe Treasury and we decided to make stablecoins native to Stripe Treasury. So you can just hold a balance in stables, just like you can hold a balance in USD or EUR or GBP or anything like that.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  So we believe that the opportunity for stables is just faster money movement, cheaper money movement, and more global money movement. Right now, you can be a Stripe user in, I can't remember what the exact number is, but around 60 countries in fiat. But you can be a Stripe user in stablecoins in, I think, about 150 countries. So just bringing more people into the online economy in a way that allows them to transact with the AI companies. And as the software economy gets more and more global, bringing more people into it is more and more valuable.

• 40:04Speaker 00

  You can build a powerful AI company with two engineers in Thailand, just as well as you can do it in the US or as well as you can do it in Brazil. So for stables, for us, it is higher performance, more global.

• 40:16David George?

  Yeah, and I like the position that you guys are in as it relates to stablecoins, just because, again, talk about meeting the market where it is. Like, people don't want to cut over full wholesale and just drop all their fiat and move over to stablecoins. So I think the relationships that you have and the sort of comprehensive offering that you have allows for adoption to happen at the pace that the enterprise is wanting adoption to adopt at, or startups.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And all of this works, when you really lean into it. Felix Pogba, Felix, I think is what they're called now, which started as a remittance company between the US and Mexico, and now has other corridors as well. They built it on stables. And a few years in, they're now between 5% and 10% of remittances along that corridor, which is the largest remittance corridor in the world. And so you think about how long it takes companies to move fiat money efficiently, how long it took initially for the wisest of the world to do this, let alone the Western unions before it.

• 41:21Speaker 00

  And these are great companies, but to get to 5% to 10% in just a few years is amazing.

• 41:27David George?

  That's remarkable. Yeah, I'd love to have you talk a little bit about Tempo. So obviously, it's a big, important project that you guys are in the center of. Talk about where that is and what the aspirations for it are.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think this, I'll just play the infrastructure nerd card again for a second.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  There are great blockchains. And I think there was no obvious need for another blockchain outside of payments.

• 41:58David George?

  Right.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  And there's a whole lot of reasons why a payment-specific blockchain can work really well. Privacy, for one, because blockchains are generally public and in sort of reverse engineer what's happening on blockchains. So I want to make sure that privacy is a first-class primitive, making sure that throughput is never sacrificed.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Blockchains are disproportionately used for trading. And so when you see massive trading events happen, you'll typically see performance degrade. A lot, transaction fees, like finding a way to create a blockchain where the transaction fee is never going to spike because other blockchains have

• 42:38David George?

  Invisibility is important.

• 42:39Speaker 00

  Exactly, and they have floating sort of gas fees. And so the project there is just saying, how do we move money as efficiently, consistently, and cheaply as possible? Still in the early stages of building out, getting a lot of great traction. You were working with companies like DoorDash, making it sort of the default, but not only blockchain in Stripe, and feeling very optimistic about it.

• 43:04David George?

  That's great. That's awesome. Last topic I would love to cover with you is just the sort of token economy. And so it sounds a little buzzwordy, but you guys are, I think, over $2 trillion of volume now.

• 43:21David George?

  And I think you and I would probably share the belief that the token economy is going to be one of the biggest things we've ever seen. So what do you think is kind of the state of play for accessing tokens? Obviously, there's a lot of work that gets done in first-party applications today. But what do you think is sort of the future state of how we all access models and tokens?

• 43:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I love, I've always loved the word token. And the reason is that it just sounds like an approximation of money. And increasingly, that's just what it is. We're seeing, we talked earlier about pre-trial abuse, multi-accounting, and the attacks that we're seeing against users who have sort of general, whose platforms are general-purpose token consumers. You can do just about anything with tokens on Cursor, right? You just want anything with tokens on Replay. So the attacks against these users are very sophisticated. They're very reminiscent of what we see in terms of people trying to steal money from Stripe users.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  And so there's this blurring that you see between tokens and dollars. And so for us, we think about wanting to help users move money, store money, send money safely, compliantly, and so on. And we now feel this mandate to do the same thing on tokens, right? To protect our users in the same way. And over time, I think this is only going to happen more, right? You know, we talk about some of these long-running agentic tasks, and a lot of them will replace services. You'll just be able to say, close my books, and I used to pay a human in tokens for that. Now, or many humans, now I pay fewer humans, or a human, or sorry, in dollars for that.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Now I pay fewer humans, or a human In tokens, right? Because they're augmented by agents. So we just want to make sure that moving between tokens and dollars is as seamless as moving and safe as moving between dollars and euros. We're at the beginning of this journey, but we think it's going to be a big part of the future of Stripe.

• 45:33David George?

  Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it's super exciting. And look, personally speaking, I think you guys have a real right to play a role there because of the relationship that you have with so many companies since inception, all the way through to enterprise, as you said.

• 45:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, and we usually, it's funny, we're always a little bit careful internally about talking about rights. And so we talk about mandates.

• 45:53David George?

  That's good. Win it again.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  Exactly, we have a mandate to help users with this. And so that's why we're really leaning into it. We're also focusing even more on spend management for our customers. They're using Stripe Treasury, they're thinking a lot about how much they're spending and how to reduce their spending, how their spending ties to revenue. And a lot of token usage is actually in product. So you see sort of two different types of token usage. One is to build things, and this is sort of the optics management side of token management. And then there's the product efficacy side

• 46:32David George?

  Right.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  of token management, just how good is my token-oriented or sort of token-driven product? How should I shift between different models to make it the most effective? And so we're really thinking about how do we help users on both of these?

• 46:49David George?

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, certainly in the latter, this sort of position as an orchestration layer that helps you effectively get the most out of tokens and also maintain some form of control, I think has like never been more top of mind than it is right now.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and it's interesting because there's a hypothesis that software will be severely commoditized. And it's plausible. I think we're at the, let's say we're either in the singularity or creeping towards the singularity. And it's very hard to estimate what a future looks like, where models are sort of recursively generating models and so on and so on.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  But we are seeing the exact opposite right now, where software creation is exploding.

• 47:39David George?

  Yes.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  Customers are monetizing faster than ever. And we talked about our 2026 cohort growing 50% faster than our, or 50% larger and growing faster than 25 cohort. That one being 70% larger and growing faster than the 24 cohort. And so some more software being created, it's being adopted faster than ever before. And then more Stripe products are being adopted than ever before. 11 Labs is using 14 Stripe products. I sort of wish it were 11 in a way, but actually, I'm glad it's 14.

• 48:09David George?

  Just make it 22. We're close with Matty, and he does everything in denominations of 11. So you've got to shoot for 22.

• 48:15Speaker 00

  Exactly. And there's a lot more to software than just building. There's the expertise about how abstractions should thread through your entire business and sort of keeping those up to date. And you have turnover inside of your company. And so you build a system internally, and then it starts to sort of degrade, and that person leaves the company and the expertise goes away. And so we think about just how can we help companies across their entire revenue stack, manage cash, manage revenue, close the books faster, grow faster, globalize faster. And that opportunity, I think, is just larger than it was ever, ever was before.

• 48:52David George?

  Yeah, couldn't agree more.

• 48:55David George?

  So in closing, I wanted to just get your take, and this is, I don't want to get too deep into the role of humans versus AI. But one of the things that Stripe has always been universally recognized for and appreciated for, I think, is your taste, right? And it sounds funny because you're an infrastructure company, but I think it's generally agreed upon. How do you continue to uphold that at such a large scale and with so much of the work that you're doing now being done by AI?

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's interesting how much the word taste is being used right now.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  And it's sort of hard sometimes to, you know, the cynical view is that it's how we're all justifying our future value.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that no one actually has taste and it's just we're all reproducing.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  We're reproducing machines of things that we had previously perceived.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. And like my fingers are no longer as useful, but this nebulous notion of taste is, and models will never have taste and so on, which is probably just not true.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree with you on that.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  But to your, more proximate to your question, you know, product quality is really, really core to our culture and to our identity. And it's for a few reasons. Like, one is just, we want users to have amazing tools that are carefully crafted, that, you know, can make their, make them go faster, you know, enjoy, you know, the, the, the journey of building a company that much more, you know? It's not an easy journey, but if you have, you know, tools that are surprisingly great, it feels that much better. So it's a big user lens. Another dimension of it is it's just more fun, you know?

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  You look at what you created with your team and you're like, wow, that looks amazing versus, you know, you kind of janked this thing together and it barely works. And, you know, it just isn't as fun, you know, to, to, to, you know, go through the slog, the long, the long nights, the long weekends and so on, to build it.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  And I think the single thing I would say for scaling tastes, right, well, actually two things. One is I think it has to be a top stat. You just have to say it over and over and over again. You know, it's like, it's like the, the, the company strategy of when to start someone again. It's like, talk about quality and talk about it again. And then the other thing is just use the product.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  And make it easy to use the product, you know, in, in, you know, aviation, you know, simulation is so important. Like you can't, you can't just say like, I hope the jet works. You have to kind of prove to yourself that it does before you ever fly it. Or in Nvidia, you know, they really hit escape velocity was when they, you know, went from needing to wait for the fab to give them the chips, to try the chips, to actually simulate chip performance. And so we actually invest a lot in simulating the usage of products.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, wow.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  And so you can point to an account and say, you know, give me something that looks like that.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  But make it, you know, completely PII, you know, free, you know, randomized the growth rates. So I don't actually know how big they are, but just, you know, the day dating problems that they face, you know, the ups and downs of their business, the seasonality, you know, give me a sense of, of that. And then, you know, make it feel alive, you know, make it so that I'm, feel like I'm receiving disputes from customers and refunds are happening. And of course, these aren't real disputes. They're not real refunds, but just give me the experience that users having so I can really live in it and use that with my team. And so I think, you know, you have the, the mandate to use the product. And we really ask our EMs to lead this because they're the ones who control

• 52:34Speaker 00

  the resources and they're the ones who can sort of say, wow, this does not feel good. It needs to get fixed. So we're gonna, you know, our next sprint is going to be elevating quality. And the other side, it's how do you give people the tools to do it more easily? So scaling taste for us is, you know, culture and it is the, you know, shibboleths and then it is the daily rhythms of just using the products and stepping into these issues.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  That's awesome. That's so great. Will, this is so fun to talk to you about all these topics, you know, obviously covering how you're building so much product inside Stripe, which is, which is super unique and right on the cutting edge, I think. And the future of how we engage an edge into commerce and, and stable coins. You know, one of the things that I think you guys have said is, you know, how do we assure that we build the next Stripe inside of Stripe?

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  And I love that, including, and I really appreciate the time.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you. Great to be here.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Thanks for listening to this episode of the A16Z Podcast. If you liked this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, and share it with your friends and family. For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Follow us on X at A16Z and subscribe to our Substack at A16Z.substack.com. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you in the next episode.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only, should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any A16Z fund. Please note that A16Z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast. For more details, including a link to our investments, please see A16Z.com/disclosures.