The Vindictive Prosecution of Ilhan Omar

On Monday, October 12th federal agents raided Representative Ilhan Omar’s home as part of an investigation aiming to denaturalize and deport her. This is really disgusting. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this episode ad-free and listen to Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support http://fivefourpod.com/support. 5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Allison Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social. Our Sponsors: * Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com * Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Hey, everyone. This is Leon from Prologue Projects. On this week's episode of Five to Four, Rhiannon is off, but Peter and Michael are talking about the federal raid on Representative Ilhan Omar's home. On October 12th, agents from the Department of Homeland Security executed a search warrant related to an investigation into Omar's immigration paperwork. In the warrant, the government listed several possible crimes they were investigating, including false statements and fraud in immigration and general conspiracy. Last month, DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen suggested that Omar could potentially be deported as a result of the investigation.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  If we can prove it, then you shouldn't have been here in the first place. We'll deport you.

• 0:47Speaker 00

  Omar and her fellow Somali immigrants have been the targets of Trump's Islamophobic attacks for years. And now those attacks have evolved into a genuine legal threat that could result in a sitting Congresswoman being removed from the country. This is Five to Four, a podcast about how much the Supreme Court and DHS suck.

• 1:14Peter Shamshiri?

  Welcome to Five to Four, where we dissect and analyze the Supreme Court cases that have tanked our civil rights, like the new White House Press Secretary tanking her first press conference. I'm Peter, and I'm here with Michael.

• 1:25Michael Liroff?

  Hey, everybody. Just me.

• 1:28Peter Shamshiri?

  Rhiannon had to attend to some stuff this week, so it's just the boys. We were going to do an episode about the death penalty, about the potential livestreamed execution, but Trump thankfully canceled that, which allows us to talk about something else: the federal raid on Ilhan Omar. But first, perhaps, we should start with the fresh-faced White House Secretary, Katie Zachariah, who debuted the other day and just fucking bombed, dude. Just fucked it up. She sucks. Ally, let's roll the clip here.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  He had a historic one-day war, and now we have a booming economy and a great relationship with Venezuela. I'm looking forward to working with each of you as well, especially as we are in the middle of the midterm blitz with energy and excitement never seen before in the history of midterms, thanks to President Trump. The idea of not spending evenings with my kids is completely unacceptable. So my president-- excuse me, my husband. That's a good one.

• 2:46Peter Shamshiri?

  So first, there's the fact that she just bombed. I mean, accidentally calling your husband the president.

• 2:55Michael Liroff?

  Yeah. Or the president your husband, depending on how you think about it.

• 3:01Peter Shamshiri?

  Right, right. The psychology of these Republican women, it's just so-- like, you don't need a therapist. You know what I mean? It's just like, you think this man is your father and your husband.

• 3:11Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 3:12Peter Shamshiri?

  All men sort of morph into one god figure in their mind, almost, right?

• 3:18Michael Liroff?

  Yeah. It's like, I mean, if you play with your friend's three-year-old or something, they might get confused and call you dad. Like, that happens.

• 3:27Peter Shamshiri?

  Right.

• 3:28Michael Liroff?

  Right? And it's not like they really think you're their dad, but they have moments of confusion. And I feel like Republicans never lose that. They just stay in there, stay in that moment for the rest of their lives.

• 3:42Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah. My cousin's kid, who's two and a half, basically thinks that he's everyone's dad, and I feel like it's the same thing.

• 3:47Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 3:48Peter Shamshiri?

  The other thing going on here is that she went to law school but didn't pass the bar, but has held herself out as a lawyer multiple times, and Trump said she was a lawyer.

• 3:59Speaker 04

  A lawyer. I went to Pepperdine, Pepperdine Law. I practiced corporate law. I was a corporate lawyer. I practiced corporate law and practiced law as a corporate lawyer. Practiced corporate law, especially as a lawyer and a former corporate lawyer. I mean, I am a lawyer, and I'm a rigorous researcher. As a lawyer.

• 4:17Peter Shamshiri?

  This is the kind of thing that doesn't really matter. Like, if you have a JD, but you didn't pass the bar, you can't technically say you're a lawyer. You can go work at a law firm or whatever, but there's certain things you can't do. You can never represent to the public that you were an attorney in any way.

• 4:35Michael Liroff?

  Can't really make an appearance.

• 4:37Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:39Michael Liroff?

  Like, for example, I worked on briefs before I was admitted to the bar, but they couldn't put my name on it. Right?

• 4:44Peter Shamshiri?

  Right. Exactly. And you'd put in your email signature that you're not admitted to the bar, so that clients aren't deceived, et cetera. There is a certain type of person who thinks that this is the most offensive thing you can do. I think it's humiliating to want to be a lawyer, to hold yourself out like that, to be like, "Oh, I'm a lawyer." And you're lying about it? You're gonna steal valor from lawyers? The lamest group of people on earth? I don't get it. It makes me feel like you have nothing going on in your life.

• 5:15Michael Liroff?

  I will admit, I did that once shortly after we had committed to being full-time podcasters, and this was my main job. But I was so embarrassed by that, that I told an Uber driver I was a lawyer instead. And that seemed better in the time, but now...

• 5:32Peter Shamshiri?

  That's true. Sometimes I do tell people I'm a lawyer, only to avoid the conversation that comes with explaining that you're a podcaster.

• 5:39Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 5:40Peter Shamshiri?

  But that's different, because there are levels of shame. You know what I mean?

• 5:43Michael Liroff?

  I'll tell you, this is insane, but I was meeting some friends for dinner, and we were all coming from the airport. And then they had the same Uber driver. And so they got there, and we're like, "Did you tell the Uber driver you're a lawyer?" Then I had to live with that embarrassment of everybody knowing that I lied about my profession.

• 6:01Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah. I mean, look, if you tell someone you're a podcaster, the follow-up quick questions are the worst. Like, people will pull up Spotify in front of you and be like, "I found it." And you're like, "Yeah, yeah, it's there. All right."

• 6:15Michael Liroff?

  That's it.

• 6:16Peter Shamshiri?

  Well, I once had someone start playing Five to Four, and they're like, "Oh, that is your voice." And I'm like, "Just, please, please stop. This can't keep going on." That's why you have to tell people you're a lawyer, you know?

• 6:32Michael Liroff?

  That's right.

• 6:33Peter Shamshiri?

  And that's why we stand with this new Press Secretary.

• 6:35Michael Liroff?

  Yes, that's right.

• 6:37Peter Shamshiri?

  I've talked myself into it. She is cool. She sucks at her job. She's lying about being a lawyer. I get it. I get all of it.

• 6:45Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 6:47Peter Shamshiri?

  All right. Let's focus up somewhat of a special episode today, because we are reacting to some news that happened a couple of days ago: the raid on Representative Ilhan Omar's house by DHS.

• 7:03Michael Liroff?

  Yeah. And, you know, in the past, like, on trans episodes, for example, we've had some complaints about not having trans representation when we talk about them. And we stand by our decisions, but I think we take those complaints seriously. And so without our female Palestinian co-host this week, we thought, what is a good topic for two white guys? And the racist crackdown on Somali immigrant Ilhan Omar, that's what we landed on. This is it.

• 7:33Peter Shamshiri?

  That's right. So last week, there's a federal raid on Ilhan Omar's home in Washington, DC. It is conducted by Homeland Security Investigations, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security, as you can guess. There were reportedly about 20 agents. They confiscated documents, her laptop, cellphone. As of the time of recording, the government has not publicly described the nature of the investigation, other than to say that there's a criminal investigation ongoing. But The New York Times said that a warrant, quote, "lists a series of potential immigration crimes under investigation, including false statements and fraud in immigration paperwork, as well as a general conspiracy charge."

• 8:13Peter Shamshiri?

  Back in September, Mark Wayne Mullen, the dumb shit moron currently in charge of DHS, said that there was an investigation pertaining to potential fraud in Omar's family's immigration to the United States, and that deportation was a possible outcome. This is something that JD Vance has touched on in recent weeks. Donald Trump has alluded to it. If you think that this sounds vaguely familiar, the allegations here echo a set of loosely-related conspiracy theories and rumors that have swirled around Omar since she first entered public life. The first, which dates back to her initial congressional run in 2016, is that Omar's

• 8:54Peter Shamshiri?

  marriage in 2009 was actually a sham marriage to her biological brother, designed to get him citizenship.

• 9:02Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 9:04Peter Shamshiri?

  Omar refused to dignify those claims by providing paperwork disproving them, but The New York Times investigated it back in the day, and they found no evidence that it was true. Trump still talks about it. Trump's like, "Maybe, maybe. You know, maybe she married her brother? Who knows?"

• 9:23Peter Shamshiri?

  The audience goes nuts, right?

• 9:25Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Peter Shamshiri?

  The second rumor slash conspiracy, which is more likely to be the subject of the investigation here, is that Omar's father improperly altered her age when she came here to make her 17 instead of 18, which makes the grant of citizenship much easier.

• 9:44Peter Shamshiri?

  This claim was bolstered a bit because there was some like online biography where Omar's birth year was listed incorrectly and she had it adjusted. She says that was just correcting error, but it obviously threw a little bit of fuel on the fire. If there's actual evidence of this, though, we have yet to see it.

• 10:03Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 10:04Peter Shamshiri?

  This is still just kind of speculative, but that's the sort of like backdrop here. She has been the sort of subject of right wing conspiracies and those conspiracies have revolved around her committing some sort of immigration fraud. And you can see that there's no real through line, like the brother thing doesn't make a ton of sense, right? It's just sort of like, it feels like that's just playing into Islamophobic tropes.

• 10:30Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 10:30Peter Shamshiri?

  Also, why would two siblings have different immigration status? It's not, it's not, it doesn't quite make sense. And then the whole, the age thing is just like this completely distinct sort of rumor slash conspiracy. There's also reporting that during the first Trump administration, an unnamed political appointee, which has been speculated, this might be Stephen Miller, seems like it's gotta be the best guess, directed folks to scour Omar's files, looking for violations, and that they came up empty. So here we have Trump 2.0, maybe their standards are a little lower, maybe they found something we don't quite know yet.

• 11:11Michael Liroff?

  Yeah. Aside from the Islamophobic or racist tropes, I also just have the sham marriage conspiracy, like hard to take seriously, hard to take as anything, any, based on any conviction about sham immigration marriages, considering the number of people who care about this supposedly, who also have at least Googled Russian mail order brides.

• 11:37Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Michael Liroff?

  If not done more serious legwork on it. I feel like it's a fully enclosed in the Venn diagram.

• 11:44Peter Shamshiri?

  Right, right.

• 11:45Michael Liroff?

  It's not just Ilhan Omar. Obviously, Trump has been sort of fixated on her for a very long time, but this is happening in the broader context of him targeting Somalis in general, especially in Minnesota, where there's a substantial population of them. He's been explicitly attacking this immigrant community for at least, you know, nearly a year now. Back in December 2025, he said, and I quote, "They contribute nothing. I don't want them in our country. I'll be honest with you. We're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country." This was a big part of why ICE was sort of occupying Minneapolis.

• 12:25Michael Liroff?

  Like Trump is calling Somalis garbage and saying they need to be thrown out of the country right around the time Renee Good is being murdered in the street by ICE, just for example, right? Like, it's all of a piece of the same thing. In January 2026, the administration moved to end temporary protected status for, I think, 2,000 to 3,000 Somalis, and that went into effect in March. So they did, in effect, end that protected status. In May, Trump said, "The Somalians," which is obviously incorrect, "what they've done to Minnesota, the Somalians, crooked as hell, Ilhan Omar, crooked as hell, they're all crooks." He's just been going after them for a while. He says, "Somalis are low IQ."

• 13:10Michael Liroff?

  And now, just this month, he had a Truth Social post saying, "The once great state of Minnesota is being taken over by Somali immigrants. The people of Minnesota must fight back. The Somalians should not be allowed to get away with what they are doing. They view you as weak and stupid people. Fight back, Minnesota, fight back. If you need, the federal government will come to your rescue." This, amongst other things, reminds me of the rhetoric leading up to and around January 6, where he talked a lot about how they needed to quote unquote, "fight like hell," or you're not going to have a country anymore, very explicitly trying to whip up, I would say, lynch mobs.

• 13:50Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, it's hard not to, I mean, I think there's just, just enough plausible deniability in there, but he's saying, "Fight back. If you need, the federal government will come to your rescue," which makes it seem like, "Commit a crime against them and then we'll bail you out."

• 14:05Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 14:06Peter Shamshiri?

  I think if you said, "Is that what you're saying?", he'd be like, "Oh, my God, no."

• 14:09Michael Liroff?

  No, of course not.

• 14:09Peter Shamshiri?

  No, no.

• 14:10Michael Liroff?

  Metaphorically, fight back. Call your representative.

• 14:13Peter Shamshiri?

  We're talking about like, yeah, policy, you know?

• 14:16Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 14:16Peter Shamshiri?

  But yeah, I don't know how else to take it. I, it's very clear that like, the levels of expressed prejudice that they are willing to deploy in the context of like, Somalis and Haitians in particular.

• 14:30Michael Liroff?

  Yes.

• 14:31Peter Shamshiri?

  It's a level beyond what you see in other contexts. It's like they've sort of figured out that if you just direct your racial prejudice towards like a single country or a more narrow ethnicity, you can get away with it a little bit more. But like, you know, this is very clearly the most expressed prejudice you've seen out of the administration is towards these groups, right? It's just publicly saying, "These people are dumb trash that contribute nothing and steal." Uh, I, I mean, it's just, it's one of those like Trump 2.0 things where like, every previous threshold has been crossed and you're just sort of left like, come on. Like, it seems bizarre that this stuff is not like a focal point of like media coverage,

• 15:15Peter Shamshiri?

  where it's like, obvious bigotry pouring down from the White House. The degree to which, when you, like, when you look at like the ICE deployments, they've also done things like, uh, try to freeze funding to Minnesota on this basis, on the basis that like, there's too much fraud there being committed by Somali immigrants. The degree to which like the bigotry is flowing directly into policy, right? This isn't like rhetoric that exists only on social media or something. This is some, this is like the core organizing principle of their policy platform, and they are enacting it very consistently.

• 15:48Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 15:48Peter Shamshiri?

  One thing that happened last December, after Trump first started talking about this, is you saw this little dipshit kid, Nick Shirley, who's like a 24-year-old, like, YouTuber, like right wing YouTuber. He goes and tries to like, quote unquote, expose fraud in Minnesota, and he's, he's sort of focusing on the idea that childcare facilities run by Somali immigrants are fraudulent. This kid is genuinely illiterate, like, he is one like insanely stupid. There are clips of him just like being interviewed and not knowing like ninth grade words, you know?

• 16:33Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 16:33Peter Shamshiri?

  He doesn't actually expose anything. There was sort of like a half-truth there in, in that several years ago, there were like investigations by the state into certain childcare facilities, and there was fraud found, but it's not like, I mean, he was just like walking up to childcare facilities run by Somalis and being like, "This looks fraudulent to me."

• 16:51Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 16:51Peter Shamshiri?

  And this, you know, the, so this like, there's like this top to bottom, like, from the president to these sort of like low level dipshit agitators, effort to target Somalis, to make them the target of like federal policy, to have a policy designed top to bottom to demonize like this very specific group of people. And it's hard not to, like, you can't look at the Ilhan Omar situation without folding this in, right? Like, without, without it being part of this broader context.

• 17:23Michael Liroff?

  Yeah. And before we continue, I have important news. You know, I saw a text notification on my computer while you were talking, Peter, and it got my attention, uh, just while in the last few minutes, CNN posted, "Trump asked Zachariah to reconsider White House Press Secretary role."

• 17:46Michael Liroff?

  Honestly, if I were you, I'd reconsider. Trump said he told Zachariah on Friday morning, "Katie, do you need this?", he said he told her, "I don't think you need this." So.

• 17:56Peter Shamshiri?

  Right under the bus, huh?

• 17:57Speaker 04

  Sorry, but the New York Times is reporting she also, she has been fired, like it's done.

• 18:01Peter Shamshiri?

  Oh.

• 18:02Michael Liroff?

  Incredible.

• 18:03Peter Shamshiri?

  All right.

• 18:03Michael Liroff?

  Okay, so, just like that.

• 18:05Peter Shamshiri?

  That's a wrap. We recorded this just in time.

• 18:09Peter Shamshiri?

  Damn dude, you can't even bomb one press conference anymore.

• 18:12Michael Liroff?

  I also like, we were like, oh, this will be out in just a few days. It'll be timely. We could talk about this.

• 18:19Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah, this is cool. This is cool. I, um, I'm sorry to Katie Zachariah.

• 18:26Michael Liroff?

  Yeah, we ultimately decided we support, so.

• 18:28Peter Shamshiri?

  Who like, we, again, we, we think is cool. It's cool to suck at your job. It's cool to pretend to be a lawyer.

• 18:36Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 18:37Peter Shamshiri?

  If you want to collab, let us know.

• 18:40Michael Liroff?

  Mm hmm. Tell all.

• 18:44Michael Liroff?

  Time to do your, your media circuit.

• 18:47Peter Shamshiri?

  All right.

• 18:48Michael Liroff?

  All right, back to, uh, serious stuff.

• 18:51Peter Shamshiri?

  So if we're sort of zoning in on the Ilhan Omar situation, there's a weird tension. It's very obvious here that this is like a political hit job. That they are investigating her because she's a political enemy of Donald Trump and that this is sort of what, what you might call a vindictive prosecution. Now, what does that mean for Ilhan Omar? Like Ilhan Omar has obviously come out and said, hey, this is a political hit job. He's just doing this because he hates me. And that's undoubtedly true. I mean, you'd have to be an absolute dipshit to not realize that.

• 19:28Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 19:28Peter Shamshiri?

  But does that provide any relief for Ilhan Omar? Or is it not actually matter? Right? I mean, there is the idea of vindictive prosecution. This is a thing you can prove like after the fact. I don't know how it works procedurally, but I believe that you have to let the prosecution play out. And then you can say, hey, this was actually a vindictive prosecution. It was, you know, done for improper reasons. My understanding is that these cases are like impossible to prove that like it just, it basically never works. I think this is like another one of those situations where like the system just sort of operates on the assumption that prosecutions like this will happen in good faith. Right?

• 20:07Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 20:07Peter Shamshiri?

  That you're not using the system like this. So someone like Trump who comes in and like, they've sought indictments on Comey and Letitia James, both of which I believe ran into the, uh, the Lindsey Halligan problem, which is when they tried to utilize an unconfirmed US attorney.

• 20:27Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 20:27Peter Shamshiri?

  Which resulted in the cases being dismissed. Um, but you know, we've seen this sort of appetite within the administration to target their political opponents.

• 20:37Michael Liroff?

  I think Halligan was like in that position because actual appointed US attorneys had resigned rather than engage in vindictive prosecutions.

• 20:45Peter Shamshiri?

  Right.

• 20:46Michael Liroff?

  Right?

• 20:46Peter Shamshiri?

  So we have this sort of weird situation where we basically know that behind the scenes, people in the Trump administration were looking to target Omar, right? They were going target first, right? Meaning rather than seeing some indication that a crime had been committed and then following that, they were looking at a person and saying, let's find a crime. That's sort of your classic framework for a vindictive prosecution. Right? Now, we know that that happened behind the scenes in 2019 and that they failed to come up with anything. It's a safe bet that it happened again. And at this time, they feel like they had enough to grab on to, or maybe their standards are lower. Right?

• 21:26Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 21:26Peter Shamshiri?

  But it also seems like there's just nothing you can do about this because the system is not built for Trump. The system is not built for this level of bad faith and depravity.

• 21:36Michael Liroff?

  Yeah, no. And I mean, I think I'm not going to like beat a dead horse on this, but like, this is why it was such a disaster that Democrats waited and Merrick Garland in particular waited a year and a half to investigate Trump after January 6th, right? Like he had just tried to overturn the results of the election and basically engage in a coup for all intents and purposes. And sent a lynch mob after congresspeople. And you had a moment, you had like a political moment where you could remove this guy, this clearly like malignant force in American politics permanently. And they passed on it. They said, we'll deal with it later. We, maybe he'll go away on his own. And, um.

• 22:19Peter Shamshiri?

  Your use of the term malignant made me think of a metaphor where it's like, um, rather than using conventional medicine, you know, we're going for more holistics. We're sort of praying. We're, we're praying that the tumor goes away. Right?

• 22:33Michael Liroff?

  Right, exactly. Yeah. That, that, you know, yeah, that is essentially what they did. And it was only when it was clear that he was not going away that they started to take it more seriously, which is a huge mistake. Because this is what happens when you let bad actors take second and third chances, right? Like they only get worse. They only feel more unrestrained and, um, which is why Democrats, should they get another chance, can't fuck it up.

• 22:59Peter Shamshiri?

  Right.

• 23:00Michael Liroff?

  Absolutely. And because it's not just Trump either, right? It's like so many people in this administration who are learning the same lesson that they can get away with this unless you prove they can't.

• 23:10Peter Shamshiri?

  Right.

• 23:10Michael Liroff?

  Which brings us to, well, how have the Democrats responded to this? Interesting, interesting question. I would say there's been a mix, a, a mix of responses. At the low end, the least impressive response would be Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.

• 23:29Peter Shamshiri?

  Of, this is in her state, dude.

• 23:31Michael Liroff?

  This is, yes, in Ilhan Omar's state. Fellow Democrat says, "The timing of this raid and reports that a White House official was involved raise serious questions that should concern all Americans regardless of political party."

• 23:47Peter Shamshiri?

  Raises questions.

• 23:48Michael Liroff?

  Questions about what? Questions, questions about what?

• 23:52Peter Shamshiri?

  The only reason you put this out is because you fucking hate Ilhan Omar, right?

• 23:56Michael Liroff?

  Yes, yes.

• 23:57Peter Shamshiri?

  Like, this is like, the president, like the evil president.

• 24:03Michael Liroff?

  Who your constituents fucking hate.

• 24:05Peter Shamshiri?

  Is targeting members of your political party with vindictive investigations.

• 24:11Michael Liroff?

  Trying to strip them of citizenship and deport them.

• 24:16Peter Shamshiri?

  Right.

• 24:16Michael Liroff?

  Like.

• 24:17Peter Shamshiri?

  Trying to denaturalize and deport a Democratic member of Congress. And you're like, we have, we have procedural concerns here. You stupid fuck. What are you talking about?

• 24:30Michael Liroff?

  What are you talking about? Just awful, just awful. Now, Hakeem Jeffries, who is, you know, the leader in the House where Ilhan Omar serves, issued a joint statement with his whip, uh, and the caucus chair. It was a little bit better.

• 24:47Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Michael Liroff?

  But still not great in my opinion.

• 24:49Peter Shamshiri?

  But at least he was sort of like, this is like, you know, open political warfare, right? Like he's, he didn't like, he wasn't like, hmm, not sure about this one.

• 24:58Michael Liroff?

  Right. I'll read it in full. "The Trump administration's raid on Congresswoman Ilhan Omar's home is deeply disturbing and raises serious questions about the continued corrupt weaponization of the federal government against Donald Trump's adversaries. For years, Donald Trump and far-right extremists have relentlessly targeted Congresswoman Omar with vile personal attacks and baseless accusations. Now, less than 30 days until the midterm election, his violent mass deportation machine has descended upon the home of a duly-elected member of Congress and her family. The American people deserve transparency and we will deliver full accountability for the rogue abuse of power from the Department of Homeland Security and Department of Justice." This is better.

• 25:37Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah, it makes me feel like maybe the raising questions terminology comes from some like internal guidance or something, which is wild. But at least if you ignore that, if you excise that from his statement, the rest of it's pretty good. It's like basically what you'd want to hear.

• 25:55Michael Liroff?

  Yeah, it's solid. It's, and I think especially at the end, "The American people deserve transparency and will deliver full accountability." That's good. That's, that's good.

• 26:05Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah.

• 26:05Michael Liroff?

  So two responses that I like better. One is, uh, the DFL, the Democratic Farm and Labor Party in Minnesota, which had a response that was kind of long, so I won't read the whole thing. But something they said that, you know, I didn't see enough from other Democrats, like including Tim Walz and Peggy Flanagan and other statewide reps in Minnesota. DFL says, "We stand with Congresswoman Omar. We stand with our Somali neighbors." Like, a very simple statement of solidarity with your colleague who is being persecuted by the federal government

• 26:45Michael Liroff?

  seems appropriate to me. That, that seems like that's to me what, what is missing from the, from the House leadership.

• 26:53Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah.

• 26:53Michael Liroff?

  Clearly not in the talking points. You read all the statements and there are a lot of raises questions, a lot of like the timing of this shows you that it's about the midterms and blah, blah, blah. But nobody's saying we stand with Ilhan Omar. And that bugs me, that rubs me the wrong way. The accountability stuff is good, but like you look at like how McCarthy responded when the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago. And he was like, "We're going to do an investigation when we have power. Merrick Garland, clear your calendar."

• 27:22Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah, yeah. That was when they were documenting, like, it was like uncontested that Trump was just stashing documents.

• 27:31Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Michael Liroff?

  So like, I don't know, like the, the Jeffrey statement, I give it a B plus.

• 27:38Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Michael Liroff?

  The Klobuchar statement is a fucking, fuck you.

• 27:44Peter Shamshiri?

  Dude, like she, like Omar's, it's your state. Like, her, like Omar's constituents are yours. Like this is.

• 27:52Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 27:53Peter Shamshiri?

  It's.

• 27:53Michael Liroff?

  Insane.

• 27:54Peter Shamshiri?

  It's unbelievable.

• 27:55Michael Liroff?

  Also, we should talk about, uh, former President Obama, who weighed in on X, the everything app formerly known as Twitter. He has a very long post about this, too long to read, but I would say it's very good, probably the best statement. Extremely thorough, extremely uncompromising in its support of Ilhan. He calls it appalling. He details Omar's history of criticizing Trump and on the other side, Trump's obsession with her. It's just appropriately outraged. It's appropriately thorough. Uh, to the extent I would have any criticism of it all,

• 28:35Michael Liroff?

  it would be that it's sort of allides the degree to which this is also part of Trump's campaign against Somalis. So between this and the DFL statement, and the DFL is a very big player in Minnesota politics. You have sort of a comprehensive, strong response from Democratic leaders that in comparison makes the statements from Klobuchar and Jeffries and the like, look so fucking weak, so inadequate, right? Like, this is what, you know, you should be saying. This is what the leader of the House should be saying. This is what the leader in the Senate should be saying. Instead, Peter, I'm going to read you the entirety of Chuck Schumer's statement on this.

• 29:21Michael Liroff?

  There it is. That is it in its entirety. Start to finish, uh, nothing to say.

• 29:29Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah, this is-

• 29:29Michael Liroff?

  One of the most powerful Democrats in the country. Nothing to say.

• 29:32Peter Shamshiri?

  This is the big sort of scandal. Chuck Schumer has not made a statement, which is fucking outrageous, dude. Fucking outrageous, like-

• 29:40Michael Liroff?

  I don't give a shit that she's not in the Senate. You're one of the most powerful Democrats in the country.

• 29:44Peter Shamshiri?

  First of all, it doesn't matter that she's not in the Senate, obviously. Even if she was just a high-profile citizen, this would be some, probably worth a statement.

• 29:51Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 29:51Peter Shamshiri?

  It's very obvious here what's happening, which is that some folks in the center don't like Omar, right? They consider her and the type of politics that she represents to be something that is eroding their own power. So Trump's targeting of her, you know, it has two sides in their minds.

• 30:13Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 30:13Peter Shamshiri?

  I mean, to call this like, short-sighted is, I don't know, it, it, it undersells it, right? I mean, this is sort of the Klobuchar thing to an even greater degree, right? You are not even publicly acknowledging one of the more egregious anti-democratic actions of the Trump administration, and at least in the last several months. Like, what am I, as like a Democratic voter, supposed to think of Chuck Schumer's position here? This is someone who believes that the fight with Donald Trump is, is secondary to his fight with the left.

• 30:47Michael Liroff?

  Right. And I would say also, not to be too melodramatic, but this is how Trump succeeds. This is how Trump gets power, is fucking dupes, fucking idiots, who, whenever he aims his sights at someone they don't like, it's like, well, maybe it's not so bad. Maybe I don't care so much that he's, he's being autocratic at someone I don't like, right? This is, this is how he gets power. This is how he gets away with shit. Makes me so mad.

• 31:12Peter Shamshiri?

  Schumer is, uh, at least on paper, the top Democrat in the country. Him not saying something about this is fucking crazy, dude. It's fucking crazy, uh, like, in and of itself, worthy of stripping him of power on its own.

• 31:26Michael Liroff?

  Absolutely.

• 31:26Peter Shamshiri?

  Maybe he's just like, eh, it's my last term, fuck it. Like, I'm, I'm on my way out, I don't give a shit. I mean, that's the only thing I can think of that makes sense here. Uh, it's just, it's just outrageous. It sucks.

• 31:36Michael Liroff?

  We need to take this very seriously, right? Like, stripping a Congresswoman of citizenship and deporting her is outrageous. It is, it's outrageous. And every single Democrat, and really, everyone who has any decency in this country should be fucking outraged, right? It, it should be a five-alarm fire. It should be a constitutional crisis that this is happening.

• 32:04Peter Shamshiri?

  This would be an outrage if she wasn't in Congress. The idea that someone's father, 30 years ago, when you were maybe 18, lied about your age by a few months, and then you lived into your 40s in the United States and can be stripped of your citizenship?

• 32:25Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Peter Shamshiri?

  I mean, that, it, it's just, it, it's ridiculous. The idea that that is even conceivably a valid charge-

• 32:36Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 32:36Peter Shamshiri?

  Right, a valid, uh, a valid reason for stripping Omar of citizenship. It, it concedes a worldview that is like hostile to people trying to make a life here, immigrants or not.

• 32:49Michael Liroff?

  And it's worth saying that this is like administration policy, right? Like, they, when Trump got in office, they directed, uh, the relevant agencies to start looking through people's immigration paperwork and history for errors that they can use to strip them of citizenship. Denaturalizing people is the policy of the Donald Trump administration.

• 33:11Peter Shamshiri?

  That's worth noting, and very obviously, you know, we've talked about all the different ways in which Trump's rhetoric about illegal immigrants is dishonest, right? He does things like NTPS for various groups of people, which turns legal immigrants into illegal immigrants, right? So it's not like he's hunting for illegal immigrants, really. And this is the other part of it, right? Where they're finding people who are citizens, immigrants who are citizens, and hunting for reasons to strip them of citizenship. Which, by the way, is, this is no small project procedurally. You need to, like, the, the government needs to file a lawsuit and it gets litigated, which means you can't do thousands of these every year or anything like that.

• 33:54Peter Shamshiri?

  You have to be selective, which is why they're targeting people like Omar. They're going to target people of prominence, right? The numbers I saw were that there are like maybe 10 or a dozen denaturalizations per year in a normal year. Uh, the administration wants to ratchet that way up, and it's very obvious that they're not just looking for errors, they're looking for people they want to deport and then fishing for errors, right?

• 34:17Michael Liroff?

  Right. And I think they're like, the, the numbers, like, something like 200 this year, which is an order of magnitude higher than, than typical. Still a small number in the grand scheme of things, but also that's 200 people, real people, right? Those are, those are human beings, like, who are having their lives upended.

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• 37:58Peter Shamshiri?

  I think the media struggles with this type of story because similar to how they struggle with Trump's like open bigotry, there are certain things that the media, like mainstream press, doesn't like to characterize, right?

• 38:14Michael Liroff?

  Yes.

• 38:15Peter Shamshiri?

  They don't like to say, ooh, that's bigotry, because that is like, that's like too much of a subjective characterization in their minds. So they'll be like, critics say.

• 38:24Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 38:25Peter Shamshiri?

  They do a lot of critics say. You read a story about DHS raiding Omar's home and the whole thing is like, critics say this might be political targeting. It's like, what is like the point of view, right? The things that they are like willing to characterize and not willing to characterize, like, you know, there are some news outlets that get this more or less right. I read what I think was PBS's breakdown of it and they sort of center and headline the, the fact that it's politically targeted, or at least looks like it's politically targeted. But then you have the mainstream press organizations that just aren't really willing to say it. They'll talk about it a little bit, but they make it seem like the big question is whether

• 39:07Peter Shamshiri?

  or not some little fraud actually occurred, which by the way, would have been her father, who died several years ago.

• 39:15Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 39:16Peter Shamshiri?

  Committing fraud in the mid 90s, when she was 17 or 18, right? Presumably 18 in that context. The idea that like whether or not that happened actually really matters here.

• 39:27Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 39:28Peter Shamshiri?

  The fact that a man who is dead might have committed paperwork fraud in the mid 90s.

• 39:35Michael Liroff?

  Right. Like, what are we talking about?

• 39:37Peter Shamshiri?

  You can't weigh that against the political targeting of a congressperson. It just doesn't make any fucking sense. Jake Tapper, all time fucking dipshit Jake Tapper, was speaking to Eli Honig, the CNN legal analyst.

• 39:51Michael Liroff?

  I was gonna say another all time dipshit.

• 39:53Peter Shamshiri?

  Like, just Mount Rushmore dipshit. And Tapper was basically like, well, look, Omar should have gone to the Biden administration to sort out any concerns. And by not doing that, she has like opened herself up to Trump.

• 40:07Michael Liroff?

  Oh, fuck off.

• 40:08Peter Shamshiri?

  It's like, what are you talking about?

• 40:11Michael Liroff?

  What are you talking about?

• 40:12Peter Shamshiri?

  What are you talking about, dude? As if her like openly like going to the Biden administration and being like, by the way, my father might have committed immigration fraud and I might be eligible for denaturalization, as if that would hurt Trump's case against her. I don't know what to say about that. It feels fucking insane.

• 40:28Michael Liroff?

  Trump called them the Biden crime family. Like even, even you just assume for the sake of argument, she goes there and says, I did nothing wrong. My dad did nothing wrong. I would love for you to do a full public investigation.

• 40:42Peter Shamshiri?

  And then the Biden administration like gets her out of it in some way? Trump's gonna say that was, that was part of a criminal conspiracy.

• 40:48Michael Liroff?

  Right. He's gonna be like, look, this is, everybody's involved. The Biden crime family is trying to hide Ilhan Omar's fraudulent past and look at all the work they're doing for her because, you know, they're all in on the scam. Like, what are you talking about? Like, fuck off.

• 41:03Peter Shamshiri?

  Just a fucking moron. Just, what if we were more transparent? What if we gave the Trump administration more information? What if we continuously acted in such good faith that no one could doubt us? Like, shut the fuck up. You're so fucking stupid, dude. It's 2026. What are you talking about? And then Eli Honig, there's another element here that we hadn't really talked about, which is that a couple of years ago, when Ilhan Omar reported her finances, there was an error that showed her net worth as like 30 million or something like that. And then she was just like, oh, that was a mistake. It's actually like relatively low, you know, six figures. But the right wing, of course, jumped all over this. She's.

• 41:44Michael Liroff?

  Secretly wealthy.

• 41:45Peter Shamshiri?

  She's secretly wealthy, right? Which by the way, like, would anyone give a fucking shit? Like, some congressperson gets, they all get rich. I don't know.

• 41:52Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 41:53Peter Shamshiri?

  But like, yeah, like she accidentally disclosed her real wealth. It doesn't really make a ton of sense. But the Biden administration, this happened under Biden and it, they briefly looked into it, which I think is probably the reasonable thing to do. I don't, I don't remember the exact circumstances, but Eli Honig was like, well, the fact that the Biden administration investigated that really undercuts Omar's claim that this is politically targeted. And it's like, how? How do, like I said, the material difference here is that sometimes you see something that could be evidence of a crime and so you look into it. The mistaken disclosure could have been the result of some kind of fraud or something along those lines. And so they look into it. The opposite of that is looking at a person who you want to get into trouble and being

• 42:38Peter Shamshiri?

  like, let's just start digging, right? Let's find something. You can't just conflate those two things.

• 42:42Michael Liroff?

  No. And also, can we just take a moment to say that these two dipshits, they were talking to each other?

• 42:49Peter Shamshiri?

  Yeah.

• 42:50Michael Liroff?

  This is a conversation.

• 42:51Peter Shamshiri?

  Just two dumb bitches.

• 42:52Michael Liroff?

  Saying exactly, because let's just take a moment to appreciate that one of them is like, look, if Biden had done an investigation into this, it would have cleared Omar. And the other one is like, Biden did an investigation and it proves, even though she was cleared, it proves that this is actually above board.

• 43:08Peter Shamshiri?

  Right, right.

• 43:10Michael Liroff?

  The opposite, like, these are the exact opposite things while both being like, mm, yeah, you got a good point there.

• 43:16Peter Shamshiri?

  Their neurons are just like tadpoles drifting around in their brains, just boop, boop, like just barely firing, dude. Just, uh, just fledgling neurons dying in their brain. It's, it's, it's wild. Yeah, I think this is one of those things where it's like, the simple headline is like the only takeaway, right? Trump is targeting congresspeople, not because they've been made aware of evidence of fraud or something like that, but because there are congresspeople he wants to target and he's having his DOJ, or in this case DHS, just try to find whatever they can. Just go on fishing expeditions to pull up whatever he can against his political opponents.

• 44:00Peter Shamshiri?

  If you recall, one of the charges against Jim Comey was related to his spelling 8647 out in seashells and like posting it to Instagram, right?

• 44:13Michael Liroff?

  Yes.

• 44:14Peter Shamshiri?

  And they said that was a threat, like a death threat. And they got a grand jury to indict him on that, by the way.

• 44:20Michael Liroff?

  Yep, yep.

• 44:22Peter Shamshiri?

  Some dumbass grand jury was like, oh, good lord. I mean, so we're sort of dancing around what might actually happen here, like what the realistic scope of outcomes here is. Is there some chance that Ilhan Omar gets stripped of citizenship and even deported? It's hard to find like really good legal explainers about denaturalization because it's so rare that there are very few experts. And so I give that caveat. But my understanding, and Michael, you can tell me if this comports with your understanding,

• 45:04Peter Shamshiri?

  is that if it is found that you acquired your citizenship fraudulently in some way, you can be denaturalized. It happens through litigation. There needs to be a lawsuit, like the government would bring, would bring a case. But that is in and of itself enough of a basis for denaturalization. So if it's proven that there was some fraud committed by Ilhan Omar's father that garnered her citizenship, realistically, the denaturalization may be on the table. Now, where does that leave her? Presumably, if she is stripped of citizenship, she becomes a lawful permanent resident.

• 45:46Michael Liroff?

  Yeah. The rule is when someone, a naturalized citizen, has their citizenship revoked, the revocation just serves to change their status to whatever it was they held before becoming a US citizen, as of the date of naturalization.

• 46:03Peter Shamshiri?

  And I think this is where the conspiracy charge comes in. The New York Times reported that there was a conspiracy charge in the mix. You wouldn't be able to just deport her based on the citizenship.

• 46:14Michael Liroff?

  Just because she's no longer a citizen doesn't mean she's immediately deportable, right? There are steps in between.

• 46:20Peter Shamshiri?

  Right. But if you make the case that. There's an ongoing conspiracy to cover up the fraud. Right? Now you have this sort of like ongoing criminal activity. And then maybe you can say she's deportable. I think that's what the administration is trying to do. I don't want to make it seem like they're going to get there. I really don't know. It's pretty clear that what they're working with is thin. It's pretty clear that they're fishing. Just because they're fishing doesn't mean they find nothing. But that is, I think, what they're trying to do. And I think that is sort of like the outer bound of what might happen.

• 46:56Michael Liroff?

  Right. And it is worth noting, like, that's talking very formalistically. And I don't want to be like, the administration does whatever it wants. And it gets away with whatever it wants because it has been somewhat restrained by especially district courts throughout his second term. But at the same time, they have deported people expressly after district courts told them not to. They've done things like in violation of injunctions, in violation of the law many times. Like, if I were Ilhan Omar, I wouldn't feel so good about like, well, I'm still a lawful permanent resident or something like that if I am like been stripped of citizenship and arrested. Right? Like, wouldn't be like, well, I'm going to get my day in court and I'm going to be vindicated. If you get to that point, you're already like so far down the fucking road.

• 47:41Peter Shamshiri?

  I guess this would also call into question her ability to be a representative because you need to have been a citizen for seven years. Obviously, this would be a gray area, right? She's been a citizen. It should go without saying that this is unprecedented. I'm not aware of any other time in American history where a representative would have been stripped of citizenship midterm. So truly, who knows how this would be interpreted. But I would imagine that that is something that the Trump administration is thinking about, too.

• 48:07Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 48:08Peter Shamshiri?

  So that's just sort of like gaming out worst case scenarios. What could, in theory, happen? But I don't really think that the story here, like what we're interested in talking about is like whether or not Ilhan Omar's father committed immigration fraud by changing her birth year by a single year or whatever. Right? I think this is just one of those areas where like, if you don't call out bad faith in these contexts, and this is something we talk about in like the context of like arguments in the Supreme Court with some frequency, right? If you imagine that everything is good faith, you legitimize it. Right? You have to know that bad faith exists. You have to know that the Trump administration is operating in bad faith consistently.

• 48:53Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 48:53Peter Shamshiri?

  And if you can't just immediately clock it and call it out, then you're legitimizing it and allowing it to persist. You have to understand the difference between a prosecution of Donald Trump for holding classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, which like we all know for a fact happened, and a prosecution of Ilhan Omar for a paperwork error that she wasn't a part of in the 1990s that is designed top to bottom to get her deported. Right?

• 49:25Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 49:26Peter Shamshiri?

  These are, if you can't draw distinctions between these things in your mind, then you are going to lose the fucking plot under fascism.

• 49:33Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 49:33Peter Shamshiri?

  The main feature of the way they govern is these sort of bad faith distinctions between people they hate and people they like.

• 49:40Michael Liroff?

  Right.

• 49:40Peter Shamshiri?

  If you can't see what they're doing, then you don't understand what their politics at all. You don't understand their policy apparatus at all. You don't understand how Donald Trump thinks and operates in the real world.

• 49:51Michael Liroff?

  Yeah, you're less than worthless as a political commentator. You are actively harmful. Right? Like.

• 49:58Peter Shamshiri?

  I mean, Jake Tapper, obviously, is like a net negative on our political discourse. Right?

• 50:04Michael Liroff?

  Yes.

• 50:04Peter Shamshiri?

  You could replace him with a fucking rock, dude. And.

• 50:07Michael Liroff?

  Yeah.

• 50:07Peter Shamshiri?

  And the world becomes a better place. Eli Honig, moron. A moron straight from the moron factory, dude.

• 50:15Michael Liroff?

  Right. The prototype. They base all other morons on.

• 50:21Peter Shamshiri?

  Just fucking Elon Musk onstage. Present, we've invented the first moron.

• 50:33Peter Shamshiri?

  Eli Honig comes out, everyone's like, oh, shit.

• 50:41Peter Shamshiri?

  Fucking Steve Jobs iPhone for the first iPhone presentation. The moron.

• 50:47Michael Liroff?

  Eli Honig's face in like massive screen behind Steve Jobs. Yeah.

• 50:52Peter Shamshiri?

  One clip of him saying something and the whole crowd's like, oh.

• 51:00Peter Shamshiri?

  Cut to people watching at BlackBerry and they're like, fuck.

• 51:05Peter Shamshiri?

  They've done it.

• 51:11Peter Shamshiri?

  All right. Next week, folks, we're getting our girl Rhiannon back and we're talking about a case from 1940, Minersville School District, the Gobitis, where the Supreme Court said that you can force students to salute the flag. You'll get to hear various stories from my childhood when I had a high school teacher yell at me for not doing the Pledge of Allegiance during the Iraq War. Follow us on social media at 54pod. Subscribe to our Patreon, patreon.com/54pod, all spelled out for access to premium and ad-free episodes, special events, our Slack, all sorts of shit. We'll see you next week.

• 51:51Michael Liroff?

  Bye, everybody.

• 51:54Michael Liroff?

  Five to Four is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alison Rogers. Leon Nefok provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.