MBA2716 Extended Interview: Tina Tower - How A Breadwinning Wife And Mother Of Two Built A Multi-Million Dollar Online Business Empire

Building a thriving online business while raising a family and being the breadwinner is no small feat. Tina Tower has done it all, and her story is one every entrepreneur needs to hear. In this extended interview, Omar sits down with Tina in her own home - a place she calls “sacred ground” and has never shared publicly. The two are friends, which makes the conversation unusually candid and personal. From the start, Omar and Tina dive straight into the real challenges of entrepreneurship, family life, and the judgment that comes with being visible online. Listeners will hear how Tina grew a small tutoring center into a national franchise, sold it, and then reinvented herself to build a global online empire. She shares the mindset shifts, resilience, and intentional strategies that helped her overcome setbacks, leverage social media, and create an engaged community, all while balancing the responsibilities of being a wife, mother, and sole breadwinner. This is one of the most inspiring and practical interviews featured on The $100 MBA Show. Hit play at the top of the page to hear Tina Tower’s remarkable journey and walk away with lessons you can apply to your own business and life. Tina’s best free resources to grow your online business: Her Empire BuilderMore episodes to explore:MBA2704 Extended Interview: Dale Beaumont – How to Run a Multi-Million Dollar Company and Go on Holiday 6 Months a YearMBA2520 The Cost of SuccessWatch the episodes on YouTube: https://lm.fm/GgRPPHiSUBSCRIBEYouTube | Apple Podcast | Spotify | Podcast Feed Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:12Speaker 01

  Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners. Bitcoin services provided by Block Incorporated Brand. For additional information, see the Bitcoin disclosures at cash.app/legal/podcast. Today's extended interview is one I've been excited about for a long time. Not only because she's a friend, but because she's someone who's taken practically every path an entrepreneur can take. From bootstrapping from nothing to franchising a business nationally, from selling a company to reinventing herself, building an online empire on social media, and doing it all as the breadwinner of her family, a wife, and mother of two children.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Designing her life on her own terms. I'm talking about the incredible Tina Tower.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Welcome back to the $100 MBA Show. I'm your host, Omar Zenhome, where I deliver practical business lessons three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, to help you start, grow, and scale your business.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  I got a quick favorite ask. If this show has helped you in any way, leave me a quick review. You could do so wherever you listen to podcasts. This helps me and my team reach even more people who need the same no-fluff, practical business advice that you're getting from the show. It only takes a few seconds, but it makes a huge difference. Thanks for being a part of our journey to help others on their journey. Tina started her first business when she was just 20 years old. She started a tiny tutoring center in a small suburban storefront. Most people would have just been happy with that, kept things small, but Tina is a big thinker. She grew her business Begin Bright into a national franchise with 35 centers across Australia.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  She later sold that business to a global education group, and instead of just slowing down and just taking it easy, she used all that experience of two decades of building businesses from scratch, the wins, the mistakes, the heartache, the scars, the breakthroughs, and she rolls it into her next business, Her Empire Builder. By the way, we're going to hear a lot about those tough days. So if you're in the real [bleep] right now, don't worry, you're in good company. All of us go through that, including Tina. She'll be sharing that. Today with Her Empire Builder, she helps literally thousands of women around the world turn their knowledge into a profitable online course and build a freedom-filled business that they love.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  She's the author of two bestselling books, the host of Her Empire Builder Podcast, and the founder of the Kukuwa Foundation, a foundation that funds education for at-risk girls in Kenya. But most of all, Tina is living proof, in my opinion, that you don't have to pick between being a great wife and great parent and a great entrepreneur. You can build a life that supports all of it if you have the courage and the strategy, and this conversation is all about that. In this conversation, we go deep into how she built it all. The mindset, the business, the decisions, the challenges, the reinventions she had to go through. And the truth about what it actually takes to grow a multimillion dollar online business while raising a family.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  This is one of the most inspiring, practical interviews we've ever had on the show. So let's get into it. Here's my extended interview, an amazing conversation with Tina Tower. So good to be here in your wonderful home, Tina. How are you?

• 4:50Speaker 02

  I am so good and excited to have you in my home. Do you know, my home is like sacred ground. I've never even shared a picture of the inside of my home on social media.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  And here we are.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny you mention social media because normally when we have these conversations on the podcast, a lot of times I don't know the person very well, but we're buddies, we've been friends for a while. And I feel like I can get into the juice right away.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  You can.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  So, social media. I really admire how much you share on social media. You're very open about your life and what you do and how your experience is. But that's not without its challenges.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  You know, and in a lot of ways, you've transformed your life. You've changed your health habits, you've gotten, you know, fit, you've lost weight. I'm sure you're getting a lot, as a woman too, I'm sure you're getting a lot of different kind of feedback from people as you're posting. What's experience like, sharing your world? And then what kind of reaction are you getting by sharing so much?

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, there's the good and the bad.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  So there's always the good sides, there's always the bad sides. It's funny that you say that I share so much on social media. Cause I still feel like I'm very private. So that is good, that you think that and think that it's like, you know, that you can make that relationship. Cause to me, I always want, I want to keep that privacy. So we had a really scary, like a cyber stalker in 2015. So that was like my first experience of the dark side of the internet.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  And ended up having to get the police involved and they had to track him down. And that came about because he started like, he saw me in the newspaper and then became obsessed. He ended up, he was an older man, we didn't know this at the time. But he was an older man in his late 60s in like a mental hospital. But I didn't know that at the time. And so he was messaging me every day, commenting on every post. And then what really freaked me out was when he sent me a photo of my children at our front gate. And that's when we got the police involved. And so at that stage, I had operated in a way where I never thought anything bad would happen like that. Because I wasn't famous. I was pretty small fry. And so I didn't keep private things private.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  I, you know, on my kid's first day of school, you could see their school emblem where they went to school and you knew where we lived. We lived in the suburb of Potsville and you could kind of deduct where we were. Um, and so from that, I've been really careful.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Since that point. Yeah. But now, so talking about image things, I mean, the judgment is brutal.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Tell me about it. Like, give me an example.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Um, okay, so an example was just the other day, I wore sanitites to Pilates. So I had, um, like my Santa sanitites is the best way I could describe them. And someone, someone sent me a message, that's a look with like a ick face. So there's like little micro things, but then there's other things like people will say to me, um, you know, you don't look like you used to. Uh, that's not a good color on you. I wouldn't stick with that angle. Um.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  I liked your hair better before.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  All, so not like flat out mean, but just all these little micro things of people sharing their opinions that are not helpful.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Do you think a part of that is that some of your audience came along and joined your movement was a part of your content? When you were someone else, when you maybe looked different, when, you know, and they kind of like related to you in a way and now they don't?

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Yes. So two years ago, I lost twenty seven kilos. So it's a lot of weight.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Um, and I looked very different from that. Now, I don't get it so much because I think people have forgotten.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  From before. So people's memories are really, really short. Um, and I like that. And so I don't really get many comments now. But when I was on my way.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  A lot of comments from people going, um, you know. I would I would post a photo, not anything to do with weight, health, fitness, nothing like that, like a business photo. And people would DM me and go, I see you're losing weight. Hopefully you don't go too much further. You've gone far enough. I'm like.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  What were you to say?

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like little things like that along the way was was a lot. And people would say I'm unrelatable or people would say um I got a big uh note from someone who was a client of mine who I loved so much. Saying how disappointed she was in me because I've always represented. You know, being who you are and embracing who you are and body positivity. And now I just think smaller is better, like everybody else. Now, Irma, I hadn't said anything.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  They just put those words.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hadn't said a thing. I didn't say smaller was better. I just got smaller.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Um and so people had a lot of opinions.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  About that.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  About that. Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  So the reason why I wanted to ask you about this is, you know, I I don't know what it's like to be a female entrepreneur. You know, I wanna understand what it's like. Yeah, you have separate challenges because I I do believe that women get judged more online than men.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  And that whole public threat thing is also maybe a little bit more of a challenge for women. But also, I know there are a lot of people that are watching and listening wanna make a change in their life. They wanna make a change in their image. Maybe they. Maybe it's just like a fashion thing. I wanna start a new look. Maybe it's a, I wanna start talking about something different. I wanna expand my horizons. And they're afraid they're gonna alienate the people that already follow them.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Like, what advice would you give somebody who's thinking about, like, making a change to be more their true self?

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, so I would describe in COVID times myself as dopamine dressing. I wore a lot of like wearable art, you could say. I had big dangly rainbow earrings. Like, I wore a lot of color. I still wear a lot of color, but I wear like block color now. In my mind, I've classed it up a little bit.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  And that was intentional. I was like, you know, I'm a grown ass woman now. Like, I kinda wanna go into this next stage. And I wanted to class it up a little bit. And again, people had a lot of, a lot of. Opinions on that. Someone even even said to me, you've lost your spark. You used to look so happy and so bright and now it's like you're trying to be fancy. I don't know why. And I mean, you've gone through the same thing recently, right?

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Like I got asked one time onstage in a talk that I was giving in Thailand. One of the questions was like, I think it was around like, did you intentionally have a glow up? And I didn't even at the time, I didn't even know the term glow up. And I was like, a glow up, what's that? And he, in the crowd of hundreds of people, explaining to me what a glow up is. And I was just like, yeah, I guess I'm taking care of myself better. I'm the, you know? It's important to people. Why?

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Yes, because, so I figure it's a weird thing and I don't know how anyone, like my following's small. I figure I have built.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  But they're engaged.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  They're very engaged. Yes, I have a very engaged audience, but I have tried to be as successful as possible while remaining as anonymous as possible on purpose. So I haven't, you know, I've never paid for Facebook advertising thing like I wanna, I wanna keep, which is why it's so engaged is because.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  It's all organic.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when, when they're looking at that, like anytime someone changes, a lot of the time when you follow people online, like if I think about my favorite people that I follow online, I like their consistency. I like knowing what I'm gonna get when I go to their page and, and it's always the same and it's that reliability. So if that starts changing, I can understand how as a product, when we're a personal brand and we are the product, if that changes, it's no longer the same.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  It's interesting you just said that. You said, we are the product. I started getting coaching by coach, business coach, and um, one of the things that I discovered about myself through the coaching is I'm not so thrilled about being the product.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  I know, right? It's the worst part.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Um, and that, and that's why when we built Webinar Ninja and we had a product and the product was serving other people and I still felt significant because I was help in the creation of the product. I like, one of the things I really admire in the world is great art, you know, or artists that create a great album or, or you know, create a masterpiece that you see hanging in the gallery. And you really kind of look at the details and. Really appreciate the work that was involved. I'm not so in love with Prince himself, but I love his music.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  You know, so and Prince is fantastic, lovely guy. But the point is, is that I see that when you're in your world, when you are in your audience building mode, you need to be the product of it more than maybe comfortable.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  How have you made peace with that or how do you approach that? Like, how do you not say, okay, I'm more than just

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  the product that I'm selling?

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I love, I love business, love the game of business. I have been playing it since I was twenty. Couldn't imagine anything else. I love nearly everything about it, except building team.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Don't love and being so forward facing, like being the product.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Is the two.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  You're really good at it, though.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  I, I, I'm surprised you said that, yeah.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  So when I was building my franchise, so my previous company was a franchise business and we got about one year into the franchise and I didn't have enough money to promote it.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  So I couldn't get, I was trying to get investment, couldn't get the right investment. And so I figured the best way to build it would be on personal brand. I could, for lack of a better term, like pimp myself out to bring attention.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  And so that was really my first kind of building of personal brand. So I, I started entering into all the award systems.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  I got a heap of media. I was twenty seven when I started that. So I was the youngest female in Australian history to start a franchise company.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  So I knew that I had like something I could use as like the hook to build off.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  You had something there.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so that's what I did. I went on to all the stages, I went into all the media, I started putting myself front facing. The good part is, it is the cheapest marketing you can ever do to build your business. What we got from that, like I wouldn't have built the franchise without it. That is how I got all the media, that is how we got all our franchise inquiries. We sold all our franchises without spending any money. So it worked. The downside is I got myself a cyber stalker.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Out of it. Um.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  I think it's a low price to pay.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  But you then open yourself up to all these judgments and people that have opinions of you. And my thing was, once you build yourself up, you've then got so far to fall. And so.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  So true.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  A really.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Say that one more time, please.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, once you build yourself up, you've got so far to fall.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  And the expectations on you, once you build a profile are very unrealistic. You're held to a much higher level of expectations than I think when, you know, you're you're playing in the dark, where you can do different things and you can experiment with different things and no one's judging you, no one's watching you, it's beautiful. So it does have its challenges. The the way that I have kind of made peace with it is I love the work that I get to do on the end.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  So I love serving people like, you know, yesterday, we we had a new cohort in her empire builder come through last month. And so at thirty day mark, we have like our get organized workroom where we get organized for the next twelve months after they've kind of gone through that first thirty days of nervousness. And there's all these people there that are, you know, have such big dreams and different things that they want to do and and I get to work with them. And I did think when I got off that call, this is why I go when we're in launch and like, you know, I'm like a dancing monkey. I'm doing all the things, I'm throwing my confetti, I'm doing all that I that I do sometimes cringe at myself at. You know, there's sometimes I'm like, I can't believe as a business strategist and a forty two year old woman that I have to do this stuff to be seen by the people that are my perfect audience.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  But when I get to serve them, I'm like, it's worth it.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Interesting. So you give them what they want in order for you to be able to give them what they need.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I like that, that you've come to terms with that.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not a small thing.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, how do you feel about it? Because your face, you you do a lot of podcast episodes, a lot of video episodes, your face and your voice are very recognizable.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is something that I've been thinking about working on for a very long time. Because I don't share a lot of my personal life as much as like my whole team is like, dude, please share a photo when you're on holiday, do something like, they're like hate me for not like. And I I don't know why there's a resistance there, there's something I'm working through, I think. Part of it is that I want the content and the lessons and what I'm trying to show people to be the main focus.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I understand from an intellectual point of view and a marketing point of view, like people need to like and trust you and all that kind of stuff, but I don't want to be the product. And then, and I think that's something I'm trying to work through and try to figure out, how can I?

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Social media, like one thing I think that's changed is social media is supposed to be social. We're supposed to use it to connect. And when I first came onto Instagram, for example, I think it was like that. I've made good friends through social media, like actual legitimate, real life friends. Whereas now it's very contrived. And so I try and keep it as natural as possible. So I love like when people do travel content. I love when they do real things because it lets you connect with people. And I think there is a way to do that and still maintain your privacy.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm learning that I can do the travel content or shoot a video when I'm somewhere that's interesting. If what I'm talking about is interesting.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  You know, I was talking about this with a friend the other day. I had a dinner with a bunch of male entrepreneurs and some of them were fantastic because some of them I just didn't relate to at all. Like they were sharing stories about traveling and all my girlfriends dragging me to the cathedral. We got to see another church and I look at it for five minutes and I'll wait for you outside and whatever. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And I was just like, you do realize that the person that, the architect that designed this cathedral, designed it knowing that it's not going to be completed during his lifetime. Like that isn't inspirational to you? That like as a, as a business person, as a creator, like, are you aware of the fact that maybe you need to build something bigger than yourself?

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Just like the person that built, like all that is in the visit to the cathedral, right? And he was just like, no, I want to go go-karting. And I'm like, I don't want to judge. I don't want to judge, but I'm like, for me, that's the type of content I want to share when I travel. Or just like this idea of like, this is what I'm getting out of the travel. I'm getting of the fact that like, you know, we were in Rome recently and I was like, everything here is over like a hundred years old, at least, right? Everything is like ancient and compared to what we see online. Online, everything is like. Last week is could be like 10 years ago.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  You know, and I that's aspiring to me to be able to have that kind of vision to be like, hey, I have the patience to do something now that won't reap its benefits or see the fruits of that labor until later.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  And maybe that's being romantic about business and creator, economy and all that kind of stuff, but.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  I mean, I think we have to.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's the beauty in it.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why we love it so much.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we want to make something that matters, that lasts totally.

• 20:11Speaker 01

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• 20:56Speaker 01

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• 21:06Speaker 01

  Support for today's episode comes from Square. You probably know Square is the thing you tap your card on at your favorite coffee shop, restaurant, salon, or local store. But for the person running that business, Square is a whole lot more than a way to get paid. Square brings the tools you need to run and grow your business together in one system. From payments on appointments to staff, inventory, sales, and customer relationships. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, detailing cars, running a restaurant, or starting something new. Square keeps your business tools working together so you can focus less on managing the moving parts and more on what's next. And right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com/go/mba. That's S Q U A R E dot com slash go slash M B A.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Visit Square to get started because running a business is complicated enough. Your tools don't have to be.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  One of the reasons why I really connected with you when we first met was like, I was like, this woman's like a hard worker and she's like got grit and she's not afraid to like do things herself and she's like a maker and

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Probably too much.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe, or we're gonna put that aside for a second, you know, you're on my show today, so we're gonna be nice.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  But I, I know that doesn't come from nowhere because you grew up in a tough environment and you grew up very fast, you know, had to be independent very young. What can you share from that story?

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I could say I've probably spent the last 10 years trying to unlearn the working so hard thing, which, you know, someone asked me the other day, do you think you would have got where you have gotten to without working as hard as you could? Like if there was, if you could avoid burnout, if you could have balance, like, do you think that's possible?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  And if I, like, I would like to say, of course, we can do it in such a healthy way, but I actually, I don't believe, I don't believe it, no. I do think it, I do think it takes hard work.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Especially in the beginning.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, heaps, and I think the, you know, the online world just romanticizes way too much how

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Work smarter, not harder, can I?

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, you know, outsource, if it doesn't bring you joy, outsource it. Or if you charge yourself out at a thousand dollars an hour, anything less than that, you should, you should hire people for that whole thing. So I do believe in hard work, I think it has served me really well. So a little bit of the backstory, I, you know, came from quite a tumultuous household. I am the second child of six, so I have five brothers, but four of them are half brothers.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  So I grew up

• 23:39Speaker 01

  You live in the same house though?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Three of them in the same house, yeah. And they were quite rough, yeah, so it was not uncommon, you know, my brother broke my nose, I was bruised a lot, like, it was just in, in jest, almost, like, that was just a normal part.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  That, one of the things that I have learned as I've grown up is you don't know what's normal until you get out into the big world.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, that's so true.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  And so I didn't really, you know, like Like probably have major issues with my family until I had kids myself. When I had my own children, this sounds awful, but when I had my own children was when I really started to hate my mother. Because I was like, I love my kids so much and want nothing more than to protect them. That for her to allow me to be treated and for her to treat me the way that she did. I just find it so hard to understand. So I left home for the first time when I was fourteen, um, and I I ran away like the whole. You know, quintessential teenage girl runaway. I slept the night in the back of a fruit shop. But the funniest part, and this is like such a indicative of my personality type.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Was I took my school bag, I took everything there, so I went to school. The next day, like I was like, I'm not, I'm not missing school, like my education is important. So I went there and then a friend told her mum who came and got me the next night and I stayed with them for a few weeks and then I was taken to my dad's house. So lived there for a year, which we didn't really have much to do with each other. But they had two more boys, so their boys at that time were like two and three. You know, I was, I was a fourteen year old, very headstrong. I don't think it would have been easy for them. And so I was in the way of like their, their new family that they were having. And so after nine months, he dropped me back. At the top of the driveway at my mum's house and told me to get out and I had to go back in and and go.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  I'm back, please look after me. Um, and so nothing was really ever the same then. So I was really lucky. I met Matt, my husband, three weeks after my eighteenth birthday, which is young. It's like pretty much the age of my son now, which spins me out, cause I'm like, you're a baby. Like that is so young.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  But you were a baby.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  I was a baby.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  I mean, you had probably more experience than, yeah.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember meeting him, I remember all of that and I didn't, I didn't think I was. I was. I mean, I was working three jobs through my H S C. I started the business when I was twenty. I was still going to uni full time, paying my way because I didn't wanna have X debt. Like I was. I was like as ambitious as all get up. I was going to Anthony Robbins, I was going. To Robert Kiyosaki, where some people find religion, I found personal development. It was like when he said, if you can dream. You can dream it, you can achieve it. I was like, well, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming it, I'm achieving, like, let's go. My diaries from that time, because I keep a journal.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Which is really helpful because we do rewrite history in our heads a lot. So sometimes I'll go back and and read it and go. It just makes me feel really sorry for myself now if I read it. But, you know, when I, when I like look at all that, like the dreams that I had. Were so ridiculous and so not my own. I was like, I'm gonna own ten properties and a super yacht and I'm gonna, like, I just. Had the goals of all the things that you think like wealthy, successful people will have, which evidently as I've gotten up is, I don't want any of that.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  The responsibilities of that.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want that at all. I do love boats. If anyone wants to invite me on a super yacht, I will be there. Yeah, but I don't want to own one. But yes, as I grew up, I worked really hard. There was all of my self-worth was wrapped up in achievement. I felt like, and I think this is, you know, when you have parents that don't love you. I think it can make you very, um, ah, like just you, you find that worth in other places.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to find the love in the things you do.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and that's not easy. I don't know about you, but I look back sometimes in my childhood, my parents, they tried their best, you know, um. They weren't perfect, you know, no one is. Do you ever look back and feel like maybe they didn't have the tools to do what you needed?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  They just don't know. So I think my mom would probably have bipolar or some sort of, you know, mental. Thing going on, um, that she's never worked on. But also, I just think parenting then was different. I I don't imagine my parents ever sitting together and going, could we do better? Whereas Matt and I, at least once a week, we discuss, like, our son at the moment, he, he's always wanted to go to. America and play golf. And a couple of months ago, we've talked him out of it because the state of America at the moment and and different things that are happening that I'm like, I just don't think. It's the smart. Thing. And so when we've, when he's like, removed that dream, he's been spending a bit of extra time at the skate park.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  And I'm like, okay, the skate park's not the greatest place. So what are we gonna, and we, the amount of conversation we have had. Both Matt and I and with him in making good decisions together and keeping him safe and happy and all of that. And I'm like, that. Just didn't happen for our generation.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think an uncle of mine mentioned that the difference between your parents' generation and our parents and our generation is that. Our parents, when they had kids, their life didn't change. Like, it just like, it was just like buying a car. It was like, you know, okay, just something we gotta maintain and. Yeah, exactly. Figure it out. And I, I don't know, I don't wanna speak for you, but for me. I'm actually happy that's how it was.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Because it taught me to be responsible, taught me to, you know, like, the world's not gonna come save me, I gotta figure it out. Like. I, I love the fact that I have memories where I was in a jam, like I had to figure something out and. The option of calling my parents was not there because they'd get angry, like, oh, like, why did you get yourself in this situation? So I had to solve it myself. And it's like, how many twelve year olds can do that?

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  You know?

• 29:46Speaker 02

  I do think you can teach responsibility without being negligent.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think they're just busy. My parents are just busy. Both of my parents were working so long and, you know, I, like. I formally met my dad when I was like thirteen. He was living with us and everything. He's my dad, but like, he was working so much. He was in sales.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was working nine to nine every day except Sunday.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  You know, and I actually, the reason why I say when I was thirteen is because that's when I started going to work with my dad. I used to. My dad was a car salesman. He was the manager of the dealership. And then my first job at thirteen was washing cars at the wash bay. He would take me on Saturdays and we would go together in his car and we'd stop at Wawa, which was like a convenience store and he would get a. Told me, give me money and say, go get a coffee and get a hot chocolate for yourself. And then we'd come back and I always remember to let me keep the change. And that was like a huge thing. Wow, I got like extra a few bucks in my pocket.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  But then I would go to work. And clean cars till three, but he didn't finish till nine. So I'd just sit in the showroom and watch my dad work. And it's, it was an interesting moment where you get to observe your parents not being parents.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Like they're, how they deal with their colleagues, how they order lunch, you know, things like that. And it's just like, oh, I like this. It's kind of seeing.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  It's like when my kids look at me on stage.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Their face is so funny when I look out and see their faces.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  And I'm sure that they're looking at the crowd and saying, wow, there's so many people that admire this woman.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  That's my mom.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cohen, after his first big conference that he came to, and he went in the break and he was like, they think you're like a big deal. I'm like, yeah, I am a big deal, dude. Yeah. I'm like, I am.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  So you had a franchise for a while. You sold your business.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And you moved into the content world.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Okay. Tell me about that transition. Tell me about what was like building a new type of business.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, do you know, like funny that this is happening now. So yesterday I was looking like at notes from then. Um, and I was looking at after I sold all the new business ideas that I had, and I had like the business there and the fours and against and what I was gonna go into. And I had all the business plans nutted out for like these eight different businesses that I wanted to do.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  As you would.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Well, it's for me, the ideas, it's not lacking ideas. It's lacking like capital and time for execution. Always my thing. I don't know how people are like, I know I want to be an entrepreneur, but I don't know what to do. I give you a book of all the difference. Like there's so many different ways to do it. So many possible futures. And so when I sold Beginbright, I was in the situation where I was like, I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. So I started my tutoring center when I was 20 and I sold Beginbright at 33. So I was very much in childhood education that whole time and knew I wanted to do something different, but didn't know what it was. So the first thing we did was take a year off, which I am so, it was the best year of my life.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  I don't think, we traveled around the world. We went to 28 different countries. Our kids at the time were eight and nine. And I just don't see how anything in my life could ever top that.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  So you were totally off, like a complete sabbatical from everything?

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. I had no email, no social media, which, talking of social media, I'm like, it would have been the greatest content of my life. And I didn't share any of it.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  But you have it in your head.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  I have it in my head, but I'm like, gosh, I could have built such a profile through that. Um, but I'm glad we kept it really sacred and we just, it was so nice to disappear. Yeah, I loved the feeling of disappearing and at the time, and this is a good, good kind of message for everyone that I think is good to know is. Sometimes, you know, I was really worried that by doing that. I was going to lose everything and have to start from scratch again.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Everything, what do you mean by everything?

• 33:28Speaker 02

  So we didn't get, we didn't sell for enough money to retire. So we sold for enough that it was, it was good. We had a good sale, but it wasn't like F off money.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  You're worried you're gonna lose all your money in the travel?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. We had enough money to travel and we bought our house and that was kind of, that was kind of it. And then I had to find my next adventure. But I was worried that by disappearing, I would lose all the momentum that I'd worked so hard for. And then by the time I came back, no one would remember who I was. I would, I would have to like start building all over again. And the interesting thing was I came back and no one really realized I had left. People were like, you went away for a year? I was like, yeah. They're like, I swear it was just last month. No one, everyone's thinking about themselves. No one's really thinking about us.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  And time flies, yeah.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  It really does. And so I'm so glad I took that time out and you never start from scratch. Like you're always building on what you've already got. And so what I was doing then was, what I do now is the only thing I've ever done by accident. Because it wasn't, I was supposed to find my next like real business. And I was coaching until I found the next real business. And so I was loving coaching. I was doing it mostly for service-based business owners that wanted to systemize, scale and sell. Because what I was really good at was systems from franchising. And at the time, so we were, we were doing over five million a year. We had a hundred and twenty staff. We had forty locations. And we had um, six head office staff.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  So we were running quite a big operation on what we had because it was just so well-oiled. My systems were a work of art. And so I was helping other people do that so that they could leverage and do that. But what I was going through with everyone was I was repeating the same thing again and again and again and again. And so I was like, I'll put that part into an online program so that when we do our private coaching sessions, it's just like. The stuff that they need to work on.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  So they can consume the content and then fill in the gaps.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Yes. So that's what it was supposed to be. And then I started doing that and everyone was going. Oh, how have you done this online thing? I wanna do that with some of my IP. And so I launched my first course, Idea Launch, in twenty eighteen. I made eleven thousand dollars in the week, which to some people is not very much.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  To me, I could not believe it. I was like, I don't have to do anything.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  For this, like, everyone was happy. Up until that point, I had sold products in our toy store, which, you know, you buy something for two dollars, you sell it for four dollars.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  In tutoring centers, we pay the teachers forty dollars, the parents paying eighty dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so really, you know, predictable kind of scenario. Whereas I was like, so I just sent this out, like, at the time on personal Facebook, cause that's all that I had. Where so many people that launch go, I'm not putting it in my personal, like, how embarrassing.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  I didn't care what Uncle Toby was gonna say about me, like, I'm putting it out there. And so I sold it on my personal Facebook, uh, cause I had no email list or anything. So I sold it all that, and eleven grand, I was like, oh, this is insane. I'd seen a little bit of like Amy Porterfield and James Wedmore popping up. And honestly, when I saw their stuff.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  What year is this?

• 36:32Speaker 02

  This was twenty eighteen.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so when I saw their stuff, I was like. That's not how business works.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  They're just talking out of their asses. No, no, they weren't.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  They weren't, yeah, cause the internet scales quite well.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  So well.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, just so we're clear, Idea Launch is a course that people would take to learn how to create an online course.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, just simply how to get your IP, put it into a course platform, build the website, set up your marketing, ready to go.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  And it was like a once thing, like you buy, you have lifetime membership to this course?

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Twelve months.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Twelve months?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Okay, so they can renew every year?

• 37:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  All right.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  And then your first launch, you get eleven grand, and then you're like, man, if I do this again.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I wanted to say, when I did that, the thing that kinda went off in my head was, I wonder how long it'd take me to hit a million dollars with this. That was like my first thing. And so I launched it four times a year for two years.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  And it took nineteen months to make the first million. So it was insane, and it was at the time, so I think, you know, twenty eighteen was much easier than it is now to like go from zero.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Up.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  We'll get into that.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then in 2020, because I had all these graduates, was when I started Her Empire Builder.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  And then that is the most fun I've ever had in business.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Okay, so Her Empire Builder is more of a coaching program?

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Membership.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Membership, okay. So they're a membership, they got a community, and they also

• 37:56Speaker 02

  A lot of education, yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Alive on video?

• 37:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Okay. So what was the catalyst for you to be like, hey, I want to offer a more premium product? I want a high value product. What was like kind of the reason why you wanted to go there?

• 38:11Speaker 02

  So with courses, and I mean, it probably wasn't the smartest business move from a profitability standpoint. But for me, I like, I want both. I want to make a lot of money, but I also want to enjoy myself a lot. And so with courses, it was very transactional. People buy the course. I would meet people at events and conferences and they were like, I've taken your course. I have no idea who they are. Which, you know, I didn't love. I like knowing people. I love relationships and connections and knowing people. And so when I started looking at memberships and more mastermind kind of models, that was where I was going, I think this will be more suited to my personality type, where I can really know someone and see them every month and go, all right.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Invest.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, what are you working on? Let's change that and know people's partners and children and what they're struggling with and what they're worried about and be able to work more closely with them. And that did make me a lot happier.

• 39:06Speaker 01

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• 39:47Speaker 01

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• 40:00Speaker 01

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• 40:43Speaker 01

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• 41:10Speaker 01

  In that process, do you come across people that you just can't help?

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  How do you deal with that?

• 41:16Speaker 02

  I hate it.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  How do you know you can't help them? And then what do you say to them?

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Oh, so, you know, this is a tricky, tricky thing because I'm censoring myself because I'm like, people are going to judge what I'm going to say. So I won't censor myself and judge away. So I do think that sometimes, and the same with franchising, there would be people that would come in and interview for a franchise. And I would either go yes, or I'd go no, you don't have it. And this is where I think it's such a problem that entrepreneurship has been romanticized so much. Is people think they're going to be working five, 10, like I will have people come, sometimes come to me and go, I want to start my online business. I don't want to work more than five or 10 hours a week. I don't want to put myself on video and I'd like to make a million dollars a year. I'm like, yeah, that sounds rad.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Do you have a genie in a lamp?

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like, that's not even like that just doesn't, it doesn't happen.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  That's like saying all that, I want to be a surgeon.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Like, how?

• 42:13Speaker 02

  It doesn't, it doesn't happen. And so I do think, you know, if people have unrealistic expectations and they're not willing to get their hustle on, it's not gonna work. But the thing that I have grappled with, and this is where I bring in like the thing that I think sometimes people would judge me for, is I'll have discovery calls with people. And there are some times that I will talk to people and go, I don't think it's gonna work. And sometimes I will say that, and sometimes I won't. And the reason sometimes I won't is because there are times where I think sometimes people are so determined that they could surprise me. And what makes me the holier than thou person that gets to either anoint them and say they can try or not try. And so.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  It is your program, but yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Yes. But there are times, you know, like we've had people in the program for a year that still haven't launched.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. So how do you, how do you suss that out early? Like, how do you know this person has what it takes? You've seen so many people. Is there like something that you notice?

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, it's a bit of an X factor. Like you would see this too, right?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  So where you've got, you've put in a room of successful entrepreneurs and they're different. There's not a one size fits all. Like if I look at, you know, the masterminds that we have where they're over seven figures.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  All very different personalities. Some are extroverted, some are introverted, some are like attention, some hated.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Like there's all different types. But the thing that everybody has is like some sort of likability, some sort of X factor that, that allows them to communicate with the people they're trying to communicate with. And that I think is a big thing in being willing to talk to the people that you're trying to serve.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  And too often, I think people aren't willing to put themselves out there.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Which means they're not gonna connect with anybody.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I see something in those groups.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  The commonality is something that I heard from Steven Bartlett, which is like they care more about winning than being right.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Like, a lot of people that that would have a call of me, like, or asking advice. And after that call, I'm like, hmm, this person should go back to their job. Because, one, they have all these excuses why they haven't done anything. And when you give them feedback, like, yeah, but, yeah, but, like, the person that wants to change is gonna be like, I need to listen to this person because what I think is right and what I'm doing is getting me current results.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Like, so you have to be open to the fact that, like, I'm probably wrong. I'm probably, I need to change. I need to, you know, and I feel like all the people that we know, our friends, the people that, you know, when we go on these trips and we have fun, the Dales of the world and,

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  you know, the Michael Maidens, these people are willing to change. They're willing to to make it happen.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  And to fail as well. I think that is a big part of it, like, to come at your, like, willing to not be right is, I think people are under the misconception that we win all the time.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Whereas, like, we, like, you just did your thing where you made your app and you went, like, the first two days in before you went, you know what, this is not gonna work, and you had to start all over again. And for a lot of people, like, bringing it back to the once you build up, there's further to fall. It was so much easier to fail at the beginning.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  After you've had success, it's so much harder because you have to do it so publicly. Like, I'm sure there would have been a part of you when you were recording that going, oh, people are watching me.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  In real time, failing.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  But that's when it kicked in. Like, I I remember this vividly, like, y'all are gonna hear this soon, but the seven day experiment where I tried to build an AI app.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  I I build an app with AI in seven days.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  So cool.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and two days in, I realized the software I'm using to help me build this is just not working for me. Too many bugs, issues, it's not really getting it. And I have to start from scratch again, and I only have five days left. And I'm like, in my head, I'm having breakfast at the hotel, and I'm like, I got my iPad, I'm like, what do I do? Do I just, like, keep going and recognize the fact I'm not gonna make it in seven days and the app won't be completed? And that will be the episode, and that will be what I document?

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, that in that moment, I was like, I wanna win. I wanna make sure that I have a working app in seven days. It's like, what is that gonna take? That's gonna take me doing this all over again. I'm gonna have to build. The app all over again with a new piece of software that's a little bit more technical. So I basically the third day learned how to build this app with this new software for like half the day. And the other half of the day I built everything I did in two days. And I was like, okay, now I'm back on track.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  But in that moment, like on that day three moment where you were like,

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Is this gonna be a failure or am I gonna do it? And you had that moment where you went and you like grit in.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Is that not the best moment?

• 46:55Speaker 01

  It's the best moment, but I think it's very uncommon. I don't, I don't think most people have that.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  That's why I think most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs. Is because I think every entrepreneur I know loves that moment where you're like, you can see the possibilities. You know you can do it. You know it's gonna be hard. You're excited about the result and you're like, I know, like, let's go.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, I think, I don't wanna be on our own chest and say, oh, you know, this is why we're so great. No, I, I think it's because we've learned through so much trial and error.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Bounce forward.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  That we don't have that sunk cost fallacy.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Like, we've really learned that the first thing you, the first time we experienced this is when we quit our jobs. Or we quit our career and we start a business like that whole idea of like, oh, man, I've worked so hard to build my credibility in my job. Everybody knows who Omar is and you know what he's capable of. I'm gonna have to let all that go and start anew. No one knows Omar the entrepreneur. Like, you just learn really quickly, like, all that doesn't matter. Like, you know, you're gonna keep wasting your time on the thing you don't like.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I don't know how we got here, but it was.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  From the commonality between people that are successful, which I do think is the X factor. And I also think the willingness to fail because we do, like even just in the last couple of years, the industry has changed so much.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  You have to be willing to not do the things that you've always done and go, all right, this is it now. Like, you never get to the point where it's like, set. You've got to constantly evolve and constantly change and constantly be open to, okay, the way I've done it's no longer working. What's next?

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Let's talk about that.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Because I think that whether we like it or not, whether we recognize it or not. How people learn, how people consume content, how people pick up skills is changing with A I.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  And you help people build courses, whether they're using A I or not, but do you have any thoughts about where we're going when it comes to how people learn?

• 48:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I have thoughts, but they could be wrong, right? I like, I won't, won't sit here and pretend I'm gonna know what's gonna happen in the, in the world in the next couple of years. But in terms of like A I coming in, so I remember I, South by Southwest is my favorite conference every year. So I've gone to it most years since twenty sixteen. And back in like the one just before covid, so what was that, twenty nineteen? And they were talking about A I. And Sam Altman was there and they were, they were like rolling out different things and Google were talking about it. And there was a lot of companies that were talking about it. And in my notes, like I was like, A I is gonna change everything, like this is coming in, like let's start using it. Nothing really happened until about twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then once that came out, and then even twenty twenty three, so my first YouTube video about how to use Chat G P T was at the start of twenty twenty three. But I don't think a lot of my clients started using it until like.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Start of this year.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so it's been a lot slower, everyone thinks it's come on so fast, but it's been actually a lot slower in uptake than what I expected.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  I think uptake has been slower, but I think the evolution and the change and the improvement of A I has been so fast.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Exponentially in the last couple of years.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, so I do think it's changed the way, I mean, I know even with the courses that I would consume. Now I'll ask Chat G P T for a lot of things, so I do think that like the sim, like the two K course is dead. Which built a lot of people's businesses on like your information heavy, self paced. Pay me two grand for the thing and I'll give you the information is no longer.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  So the ones that I'm seeing be successful now are either the really, really low end, like here's how you use the software without having. On it like just start to go, go for it. Like I bought one a couple of months ago was the last short course I bought, which was how to use Free Pick. Like to make AI photographs and I didn't want to mess about with it. I didn't want to follow YouTube tutorials. I was like, just show me. And this is the thing, there's always been a lot of information, like you could use YouTube before to teach you anything. AI is just another version of that, but it will change the way we're doing things. So I do think for a lot of course creators, you need to bring in community. You need to be building community and connection because it's what people are going to be lacking so much is we're so isolated.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Um, and especially for the extroverts of the world, like they need to have that connection with people. Um, so I think that's going to become even more important as we go forward.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Okay. So people are going to want more connection.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Do you feel like people want more in-person connection?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Like in real life?

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  And you do a lot of retreats in your, in your, how many retreats do you do every year?

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Uh, we only do two.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Two retreats, okay.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  But you also have a mastermind that does a retreat.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a couple of masterminds.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. I mean. You're treating on us?

• 51:31Speaker 02

  I love it. Yeah, I love it so much. To me, the, um, so I'm an introvert, but I love intimate retreats. They're perfect for me. So to me, like I either love speaking on massive, massive stages. So the biggest stage I've spoken on is fifteen hundred people. And I found that quite easy because you can't see anybody.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  The lights are drowning you out. So you can't see anybody's face. You just get on and you're just performing. But ones I find really hard is like two hundred people. Where you can see everyone's faces and they're all like staring at you and making faces and they're just staring blankly.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, no, no reactions.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  So hard, so hard. So I like, like being able to just to connect with people properly. And so I've always done live events because they make me happy. But also I think from a business point of view, it's why we've got such great retention.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Is we keep people there because people know each other. They see each other year after year and

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  And they like to stay part of that. So it's, it's worked twofold to be able to do that, to build community. So it's very lucky for me that people are now wanting more connections. I'm like, I'm here, I'm ready.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  This is great.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  So you started this journey in two thousand eighteen, it's now two thousand, almost two thousand twenty six,

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  twenty twenty five as we're recording this. Where is this going for you? Like, what do you want to get out of this? What is, do you have an end in mind? Are you just enjoying the journey or?

• 52:50Speaker 02

  I don't know. So at the moment, it's the longest I've ever done something without evolving it.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  So even though I was in like tutoring for thirteen years, I had my own tutoring centers, then we started licensing, then we started franchising. And so we we snowballed a little bit, whereas like with the last launch, for example, we ran our last launch. I like threw the confetti, doors open. I'm like, how many times can I do this? You know, it's it's feeling sameness. So I want to do something, I don't know how to shake it up, that will keep me entertained, which I think is important. Um, so I'll probably like try different launch mechanisms or maybe go into evergreen, but I don't want to use Mederad, so.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I've got to like try and get around that in my head somehow. Um, but we'll see, we'll see where that's going to go, but the high level groups aren't going anywhere for me. Yeah, I love those, but I might start playing with some other little businesses on the side to satisfy that.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  itch.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  So the reason why I wanted to kind of talk about this window, twenty eighteen to twenty twenty five, is those are the years where your kids were kind of growing up.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  And you were, you know, on mom duty, you're on, you know, wife duty, you're on, you know, businesswoman. Like, what was that like trying to balance all that and meet your own expectations, but also not feel guilty?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, the guilt doesn't serve anybody. And so it's something that people really struggle with for the first couple of years, but it's it's no

• 54:23Speaker 02

  it can be torturous at the start for for a mom wanting, like having that social conditioning to feel like you need to be in the home all the time, but then also if you're ambitious, feeling that pull and trying to work out what is going to be right for me and doing both.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  And I would never tell anyone this is the way to do it because it's so individual for different people. I've got some girlfriends. That, you know, aren't really very maternal. And so they they love their work and being there all the time and have nannies and different things and that works for them. I'm as maternal as you can you can get. I wore my babies for the first year, like, no one was touching them but me. I loved it. Um, and so to me, business has been the greatest gift ever. Because I have been able to make a bucket ton of money, do beautiful work that serves so many people. And be present for my kids in every stage of their life. And I I can't imagine how, like, I look at people with a job.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  And I think that would be so difficult in having to leave for work at seven thirty, eight o'clock in the morning and you don't get home till six o'clock. And then how do you cook dinner and grocery shop and read to your kids and do it like you just, it's so much harder. And so I feel so grateful for business as a vehicle, being able to do that. But I do travel a bit, so there is different times, you know, I miss them a lot when I travel. There was in twenty twenty three. So after Covid kind of came out of it and I was like so itching to get out into the world again. And I went away for five weeks, which was the longest I had ever gone away. And home up from like three weeks on, I cried nearly every day. And I was just like, I wanna go home.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  I just, I miss them so much. So it wasn't.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Well, now you know what your value.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  You know, yeah. So I love a ten day trip.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Love a ten day trip. I'm off there, I get on the, I get on the plane by myself. I'm like walking all by myself, like I'm out there alone in the world. Love it.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  For ten days.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Cause you know, you know, the end is coming.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Yep. And so that's kind of been the the balance for me, but also we've done business and life together. So I had the kids for the first five years. And then when they started school, Matt stopped work. So Matt stopped in twenty thirteen when our franchise started taking off. So that he could, cause I just couldn't do everything. And so it's like, he he worked for money. Whereas I work for money, but also cause I love it. And so we're like, why are we sticking to this when our family unit would be so much happier. Matt doesn't mind cooking. He doesn't mind like the the mundane stuff of every day, which I hate. That part. Love looking after the kids. Hate cleaning, hate cooking. Like, I'm like, this is such a waste of my time.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  I could be doing so many different things. Whereas he doesn't mind pottering around the house and getting all of that done. So we were much happier when that happened. But if you ask the kids, they have two stay at home parents. They think we're just here waiting for them.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Free day.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we've spent a lot of time together. We travel a lot together. When I travel for work, I take them with me. They have seen me on stages and in all the different things when we've had like big decisions. So up until probably two years ago now, we had Sunday family meeting every Sunday where we'd talk about, like, we'd show them our bank accounts. This is how much money we've got. This is how much money we made this week. These are the big decisions we're making. This is our calendar for next week. Like, we'd actually talk about it. And if I had to do something, like I was looking at going to an overseas conference or I was looking at saying yes, I'd go, this is what I'm looking at. What do you think? And then sometimes they'd be like, no, I've got this on. I really want you there. I'm like, okay, yes, I did forget that you had that.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  So we'll we'll do that and adjust. And then other times they're like, yeah, we want to do, can we come too? And so we've always made them feel part of it, which has made it feel more like a team rather than this whole. Mum's going to do this while we're left here.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I feel like we've done it. We've done it together.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Well, I can share with you that like one of my biggest inspirations in life is my mother. And she really prioritized her career and work and being a provider for the family.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Uh, I feel so lucky that that was my first example of a woman, like.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  That that's what women should do. Women should go after their own dreams and they should try to contribute in the way they feel they can contribute. And it and it doesn't have to be cooking and cleaning. It doesn't, it could be in, you know, making sure the bills are paid on time and all that kind of stuff. So that was my example. So like, that's a huge gift you've given your children where they they see women in a different light. You know, I'm not, homemaker is is is a very admirable.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Uh, um.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  I couldn't do it.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I'm not, I'm not trying to judge anybody, but I'm saying that. In my own experience, that was one of the best gifts I got in my life is that.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  I mean, there has been times where I've regretted it. There's been like different times where I probably not regret, but like I've been resentful of Matt. Probably two or three times we've had where it comes to this crux where we're in a really difficult stage of business where I'm really like back against the wall and the whole thing is on my shoulders and I've got to support him and the kids financially. I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Hmm, pressure, yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 02

  The pressure of it where I'm like, I could have just decided to be a woman that stayed at home with her kids.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Why didn't I decide that? Why did I have to go out and make something of myself? But then when it, when it comes to it, there's no other way I'd have it.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  I'm every woman.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Um, you mentioned Matt, Matt Toward. So what does Matt mean to you and how has he been a part of your success?

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  I mean, I think I got lucky. Like there's no, um, we definitely communicate well and work at it. But think of yourself at eighteen, right? You're such a different person.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  What an idiot.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I don't think he would have been an idiot. I definitely wasn't.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  I, I knew him. He was an idiot.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  But there was some, you know, like we're so different. Matt wasn't even sure he wanted kids when we met. And little did he know he didn't have much choice in the matter, the poor guy. He got totally steamrolled by me, but yeah, I'm sure he's fine with it now. But there was some, you know, we just got lucky. It's just been every evolution of each of us. I think I really like him. And that I, I know friends that have got divorced through no fault, other than just you've just kind of grown apart as time's gone on and want different things out of life that you don't realize when you're a kid, what you want. And I think it's just lucky that, that we, we're such different people. I am so driven, obviously.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  He has no ambition at all. He is the most content, happy, cruisy dude I've ever met. And so we're so different in those ways, but we've got like the exact same values. We have the same thing with parenting. We spend our money in the same way. We want to live the same way. We both love travel. We both love space. We both love family time, like all of that sort of thing. Um, so we've got like the same value system, but with very, very different people, which I think keeps it really entertaining.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Right. I would imagine you guys do a lot of communication.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  What does that look like for some people like you're all communication is the key to a great marriage and a great relationship. What does that look like in your relationship communication?

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  I mean, we don't have like a formal thing. It's not like we sit down and go through a procedure of something.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  An agenda.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't have have the the agenda. But we do spend a lot of time together. So every morning, we, you know, have our tea together and we have our breakfast together. Every this is gonna make me feel sound so like kept woman, but every day at lunchtime, I'm at work and I get a text. Lunch in ten minutes and my cooked lunch is on the table, ready for me to eat together.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  This is how the world was the other way around forever.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Why not, you know?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he makes me like steak and salad every day or fish or prawns or something delicious that keeps me going. Um, and then we have dinner as a family. So we have a lot of time together. And we we do a lot of things together. We go on a lot of dates. We travel a lot. We we have fun together. And I think that is a big part of it is is having fun. And I am pretty good at recognizing. So like Matt would say, he had to train me to communicate at the start because I thought he was gonna leave me every five minutes. As soon as I would do something that he wasn't happy with, I would go, fine, fine, leave anyway. That's fine. Really, cuz I just thought.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  That's what you're used to.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  I was very unlovable. I was like, as soon as he gets to know me well, of course, he's not gonna love what he finds. And so I think for the first ten years, I probably I fully expected him to learn who I was and divorce. And the amount of times he would have to come and hold me and say, I can disagree with you and it's okay. Like, we're safe to disagree. Like, he's just such a beautiful, gentle man who was everything I needed.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  And taught me that that you can have different.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  What a gift.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  I know. This is what I mean by luck, though, right? Was, you know, he taught me that you can, you can disagree, you can want different things. We can have times where it's like, you know, he wants to watch this movie. I want to watch this movie. Like those little things and that's fine. It doesn't mean we don't like each other. It just means we want a little time.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  And that's okay. So like all the big things and the little things, I think he's dealt with me so well. And I'm sure he would say like his life would have been so boring without me.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it sounds like that you're the action taker, like you're the person that's like.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  You know, if this was like a, a buddy comedy movie, you're the Jackie Chan.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  I make, I make a lot of the decisions. Um, but then there's different things. Like I'll make a lot of the decisions and Matt's pretty cool to go along with most of it. But the second he makes the decision, he's like immovable.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Uh, I did an episode on the podcast called The Cost of Success and you reached out to me.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  That was my favorite one you've done.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  You've said that to me several times.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  And I want to ask you why. I want to ask you, for you, what was the cost of success? And why is that resonating with you so much?

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Oh, good question. It was a brilliant episode. Can we link that episode in the show notes?

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Whatever you like.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  Yes, I would like that because everyone should, I think it's your best. Out of how many episodes have you done?

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Twenty seven hundred.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I haven't listened to twenty seven hundred. I've probably listened to five hundred of them.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Okay, wow, thank you.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  That was my favorite.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Um, and the reason that was my favorite is because I think it was very honest in terms of talking about, in not a bad way, but these are the things that we have to go through in order to get to that other side of success. And this is what is necessary, that you do have to have to sacrifice things. You don't get everything all the time. I mean, at the moment, like the last five years, we really started making money in about twenty fourteen. I started my business in two thousand and four. So for that first ten years was really, really difficult. A year into franchising, when I was going for all the investment and we couldn't do it. So we had um moved into our house um just over a year beforehand.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  And it got to the stage where I had to sell a franchise in order to keep paying our wages and our rent and all of the different things. And I didn't, I didn't sell one on time. And so I was talking to the accountant and she's like, you just, you're out. Like you've run out of money, like there's no other, there's nowhere to find it, there's no way to get it. And I'd already done things like pay staff on my credit card and was, so we were out, which I don't advise anyone to ever do. Um but so for that, I had to come back and tell Matt and go, okay, we can't afford to pay our mortgage. We've got to leave and rent out the house next week or we're going to default on everything. And you know, we moved out with our kids, we're two and three at the time and we lived in the back of a granny flat, like this dingy, disgusting place for a couple of years.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  And we lived on two hundred dollars a week for two years to try and build it up again. Um and so we, you know, while on the front end, and this was while I was getting heaps of media, I won the Telstra Young Businesswoman of the Year Award, like.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  This is all happening while you're going through.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  Yes. And so it all looked, and it was, like, it wasn't fake because we were growing really, really fast. So it was going really well, but I was hanging on by a thread in the back because it was growing so fast that I had to, you know, pay for that infrastructure as it was growing. And couldn't quite keep up with it. Um and so the sacrifice of that and how difficult that was, like, walking around the grocery store with the calculator and having to figure out what we could put back and. You know, one of my best business moments was, which I know can sound strange, but it was when people say like, what are you most proud, like the moment that makes you the most proud. Kai's favorite food is blueberries, my oldest son.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  And when we went grocery shopping and I realized that we had enough, that we weren't on the poverty line anymore. And I was like, yeah.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  I can buy blueberries.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  You can have the blueberries. And he got them and I let him have them, he's sitting in the front of the trolley and I let him have them right there and then, and he like picked. Them up and shove them in his mouth and he was laughing with blueberry juice just running down his face. And I was in the middle of the supermarket, blowing my eyes out, just going.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  But you, that is your made it moment. I I got out of this situation.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was. And so from that point, I've never been back to there again. But I live in constant fear.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  That I will. And so.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  I I don't think that's a bad thing.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  It's not a bad thing, but I think with the episode that you were talking about, like what it takes to be successful. I I don't think people realize that.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Are you willing to do that?

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  I'm not saying it has to be that way, but like, that may be part of your path.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Are you willing to say no to your kids over blueberries?

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And many things, like they didn't have Christmas presents. We'd get them off like council cleanups in that time was high or get something off Facebook Marketplace. Like, we just didn't have anything, but we we went to the beach a lot. We went to the park a lot. We still had a lot of fun. I mean, I think sometimes, gosh, I'm glad I wasn't wealthy when I had little kids or the amount of things I would buy them. I mean, they'd have the cute little linen overalls, all the pretty things, but luckily we didn't, there was no waste at that time.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, we've only really made made good money for like twelve years. And so it's been a lot of, a lot of sacrifice along the way and figuring out what is important and what is not important. And how we can keep that going and what are we willing to sacrifice. And for a while. Like, the reason I decided to sell the franchise was the last two years, I got into the stage where I was working like ten hour days. Sometimes twelve hour days. And then at the end, like there was like a catalyst of happening where I was, you know, walking around the block. Cause I sat on my ass all the time. So sometimes I'd just take a walk around the block and I doubled over thinking I was having a heart attack. And it ended up, I was just having a panic attack. But I was there just like, just could not breathe.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  And I came back and I was like, I don't remember not having a headache. I don't remember a time where my hands weren't shaking. Like, I literally cannot remember. I was, my whole adrenal nervous system was just shot. Because I was trying, I was trying so hard. And at the time, I had a, I had wonderful board and people that were helping me on the franchise. And there was one guy who said to me, Tina, to be successful in franchising, you need a spine of steel and a heart of gold. And honey, your spine is all bendy. He was Andrew Simmons, who has vision. Yeah, and I remembered that because I was like, part of me wanted to go, no, I can do this.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  I can do anything. I love it. I'm gonna stick it out. Like, I can tough it out. But I also knew he was right.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  I gotta ask you a question that I know a lot of people who are listening to this, watching this, is asking in their head. And that's, when you're in that moment where you told Matt, we gotta sell the house, we gotta move to the shed, we're not gonna be able to live the life that we were living, the accountant gives you the bad news. Why did you keep going? Why did you not just get a job?

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  Oh, cuz that would be worse.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  I don't say just get a job, but why, why did you just, like, not see that as, oh, I failed, this is over, I need to just cut my losses?

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Good question. I mean, did it ever cross your mind?

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  My answer to that question is that I have a level of delusion.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  I was gonna say I have unrealistic delusion. Completely.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  I think it's required sometimes, and I think, I think that I enjoy a little crazy in my friends.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Because I think it's required to be able to take some leaps of faith.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  And I know that sounds narcissistic and weird that you're like, you're a delusional person. Well, you have to have some level of faith that you can do something that you can't see.

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  That, and that's delusion.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  What, there's no evidence that you can do this.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  But then how are you gonna get anything done?

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Yes. So one of my favorite words is hopium.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Hopium, tell me about that. Is that opium for hope?

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Like, all that. So I'm the opposite of a pessimist. So people that are glass half empty, that are risk averse, that is like one end of the spectrum to me. I am overly optimistic about everything. I am very hopeful. I see everything as possible. I think everything is possible. And I have an insanely vivid imagination. So if I look at, like the example I used before, I found like the eight business plans of the new businesses that I wanted to create, my problem Is often both my blessing and my curse is I can visualize each of those eight businesses. As like a possible future and I can I can see it. I can see it so clearly. I can see it working. I can see everything happening.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  And anything is worth it to bring that to life. For me, the idea of taking something from my mind in an idea. And watching it actually come to life.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Is insanely good, like insanely.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  You're a pure entrepreneur.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Well, I.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what entrepreneurship is is and that's what attracted me to entrepreneurship is when I read it and learned about these people that. Turn things out of thin air. What is this magic?

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Yes. And so when I was selling the franchise, like one of those decisions was my board said to me, you're a starter, not a manager.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  And you are trying to still operate this like a founder and you're breaking it. Because it needs management.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  And you're not that. And that has been like something I've recognized again and again. And that is where this is why I'm looking at starting a little business on the side is because like I get that.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Good at that.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  I'm good at that and I get that itchiness. But yes, I truly think everything is possible. And at the time. I mean, maybe it was a little bit of the sunk cost fallacy as well is. You know, I had in my mind going over and over again, I haven't come this far to only come this far. I know, I know, I'm like, I believed I was like right on the precipice. I'm like, the tipping point is there and I'm I'm so close. I'm so close. I just have to get over that thing. And I told myself that for years. I was like, I'm even close to now, like we're nearly there. But I truly believed that I was like one step away. From the success I've been chasing for such a long time. And once I got there, everything was gonna be okay. And.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  And it was like people, I hear people all the time say money doesn't buy happiness. And you know, you're never at the end and. Uh, once we always say, once we're past this, it's all gonna be okay. And then the next problem comes. But truly. Once you don't have to worry about money so much anymore, everything is so much easier. Life is so much nicer. So when I hear people say that, I sometimes think like, have you tried being broke? It's no fun.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  I cannot agree more and I don't think anybody who's being honest with themselves, even billionaires that don't remember what it's like to be poor or has never been poor can honestly say that.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, give it all away then.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  That's one, but the other thing is that like there from a, from a just a practical point of view, there are things you just cannot solve or increase your likelihood of success without funding.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Right? How do you get healthy without a trainer, without great meals, without healthy food? It's impossible. This is why, you know, people in the lower socioeconomic level have health problems is because they can't afford healthy food.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  And that's not their fault, you know, they, we all are gonna take personal responsibility and try to get out of that situation, but my point is, is that like, we have to recognize the fact that a lot of the problems that we have in our life and in the world can be solved with money. Otherwise, we don't live in a capitalist society. That's you denying the fact that money is a big part of our

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  life.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you asked me about female entrepreneurs before, and this is where, like, I will say, I wish more female entrepreneurs were money hungry. Because a lot of the time, women are taught it's taboo or greedy to say, like, you, I'll talk to male entrepreneurs all the time that have no qualms in saying, I wanna be a multimillionaire.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  Never do I hear women say that. And we know wealthy women will change the world. Women give more money away. They support their families, their communities, both small and at large. Whereas men mostly hoard it for themselves. And so I think if we can encourage more women to be wealthy, it can make such a big change long term.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And I don't like this taboo around earning money. You know, one of the things that, I, I just recently visited my family, we went to Egypt, went to Jordan. And I was trying to talk to my nieces and nephews and I was talking to my sister as well, her, their parent, their, their mom, and I was like, I wanna change this narrative of like, we don't talk about money. Like, money is something that we, we need to learn and you can't learn about it if you don't talk about it, you know? It, it's okay if you're starting out with not Much, but you have to learn how to manage it.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  Learn how to invest it, like all these things we were in a talk. Because you know, we were, money was kind of like a taboo subject.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  Especially like in immigrant culture, it's like, that's, that's kind of taboo, don't talk about that. But you kind of grow up not knowing what to do with money.

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I only bought my first share five years ago.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  We, we were, I was Robert Kiyosaki, so bought my first property at eighteen. And put it all into property, but didn't know about shares and was too scared, scared about shares.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  The other day, so I ran, it sounds so nerdy, and it is so nerdy. But I ran a whole PowerPoint presentation called Welcome to Adulting for my sons.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  I saw that on social and I loved the branding, first of all. It was great on that slide and um, you know, I'm sure the editors are gonna put a picture of it right now. But the point is, is that I think that's brilliant.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  The kids don't get taught. And so I was running through with them all the basic stuff. I mean, we covered a lot of different things, but some of it was, and they told their friends. Like about it going, this is what my mom's doing. And then their friends said, we come to. And I ended up with all these kids in the lounge.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  It's about like responsibility, hygiene, health.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I covered all the things, but the part that they liked the most was investing in shares and compound interest. I'm like. You're seventeen years old, this is what you can have at sixty-five if you put fifty dollars a week. You're gonna be like a millionaire.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  Just with that. And they were like, because a lot of them don't come from money. And so. Our younger generation have this really hopeless attitude and going, how are they gonna buy a house when the average price is one and a half, two million dollars?

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  What they're being fed in the media.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they're spending money really recklessly because they're like, what's the point even?

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Well, I think that um, a lot of us grow up with the mentality that money is meant to be spent. Like I earn a paycheck so that I can spend it. Like, no, that's a deadly cycle that you are trapped in now, like, you know, so if you spend everything and then you have to go back to work and. I love um, Morgan Housel's concept of every dollar saved in the bank. He's a big saver, like he, he invests his money, but he's okay with having cash in the bank. Um. Which I understand. And he's like, every dollar I save in the bank is like units of freedom.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Like, if I'm in a job and I don't like, I don't get the promotion I want, and I want to move up in my job, I can just say, I quit and I can live six months because I have money in the bank. I have freedom units.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  And I think that that thirty seconds of knowledge needs to be taught.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  Yes. The, I had a really great business coach once who talked about, do we swear on this? Don't swear on this. Well, he had the psychological advantage of, was what he called it. And he was like, how much do you need to have that to be able to say no to things that you don't want to do? Because I think one of the biggest transitions in entrepreneurship is you've got to say yes to everything at the start. Like, you don't know what's going to hit. But then, if you don't learn when to say no, you're detrimental to yourself. And that's a really difficult switch. Because when you start saying no, you think, well, is it all going to disappear? Like, is there different things? Um, I obviously battle with scarcity mindset in a lot of things, still working on it a little bit. But he was talking about that. And to me, money always felt ridiculous being in the bank. I was like, I want to use it. If it's not being useful, what's the point of having it there?

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  But that cushion's like grown and grown to where I like my psychological level to be to know if something happens.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  We're safe.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And I, I, I think that one of the things that we learn as entrepreneurs as we grow is there is no right or wrong answer. I am going to do what works for me. You know, some people love having everything in hard assets, real estate. Some people like having a bit of cash so that they can be able to one day just like buy something cash. Some people don't like having debt. That's fine. As long as, you know, obviously you want to be physically responsible.

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  But that's the beauty of, I think, entrepreneurship is it teaches you that you can make the rules.

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. But that's where, like, the knowledge is still, you still have to know how to do that. And a lot of us didn't learn. It's one of the big reasons I love Mastermind so much.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Is you'll hear someone else going, oh, I just did this with my money, or I'm doing this, or this kind of tax thing, or, and you're like, hang on, wait, you do what? How does that work? And then people will share all this. Like, I have learnt so much from just fellow entrepreneurs being generous with their information that I wouldn't have learnt any other way.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Let's say some. Somebody's listening, somebody's watching, they're starting their journey in entrepreneurship, maybe they're building their first online course. They're going on this path that, you know, we all have gone through. Share with us, what are your top five rules in terms of like, these are things you need to follow in order for you to have the most likelihood of success.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  Okay, um, I wish I'd rehearsed these ones, the top five rules. So I think, okay, um.

• 1:21:24Speaker 02

  There is so much to do in such little time to get traction. That too often people are worried about perfection or worried about, you know, sometimes I'll have people with the goal of. I want to create my online course in the next six months. It's like six weeks tops, like just get it out there and sell it, like make some money. Um, you, you can't, you know, waste too much time, you've got to see if it's going to work and if you need to pivot and change something again, so you can sell it first.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  My buddy, uh, Mario Brown has this line, it says, take massive imperfect action.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, constantly, constantly. Um, because there's not enough people taking action, there's people doing things to be very busy, but aren't actually getting the result. Um, so I have a filter that I run my things through if I, you know, am going, is this worth my time or not? So it's, it's got to have two out of the three things and one of those is, does it make me money? Does it enhance the customer experience and does it bring me joy? Very rarely it will do all three, but if it doesn't do two, it's just not even on the list.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  I like that filter.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  Do that one more time.

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  Does it make me money? Does it enhance the customer experience? Does it bring me joy?

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  And I will do things that don't bring me joy if it makes me money and enhances the customer experience. Um, I will do things sometimes if it doesn't make me money, if it enhances the customer experience and brings me joy. So there's often that I'll do two, but if it, if it's less than that, it's shouldn't even be on the list. And I think sometimes people are so in the habit of doing things that they think they should be doing, that don't actually bring the result. So I think that is a big one. Um, the other is, is be very strict with your money. There are way too many people that don't know how to read their profit and loss statement. And I think one of the best gifts of being broke is you learn to watch a dollar really carefully. So I am still, my best friend Clint would probably, which we both know.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  Um, he puts stick on me all the time for my spending habits. So in his mind, and I bet you he's listening right now and going. Um, I spend too much because I like pretty things, but in my mind, I spend so consciously. I'm aware of everything always. I have wealthy Wednesday, which I actually got from our mutual friend Dale Beaumont. Who every Wednesday, he told me this years ago that he sits down, he looks at everything. He looks at his property, his investments, his shares, his bank accounts, his credit cards and looks at everything and just makes sure he's got oversight.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Still wealthy?

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Yep, yep, I'm still good.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  But there's so many things in going, you know, we subscribe to so many useless, like the little things are the big things. And you're having that time where you've got a couple of hours a week to go, do I still need to pay for this? Is this still good? Do I need to take this up? Like really respecting your dollar.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Um, I think is a big thing. I think trying keeping as much balance as possible. So I kind of scoff in my face when I say that. Because there's different times that I will take some areas of life and sacrifice others. So for a long time, unfortunately, that was my health. The most important things to me is my family and my business. And the rest of it kind of fell down for in my real intense building days. I let a lot of friendships go.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  Because I just, you know, if I had that time available, it just, that wasn't high enough on the priority list. Um, so I lost a lot of good friends or the friends stayed there and they forgave me.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Which, but I was a terrible friend for a long time. Um.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Those are good friends though.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  They're good friends, yeah. And your health was the other thing that I sacrificed. But that can only, you can only do that for so long before it's gonna really bite you in the butt.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, so I try and try and say, keep it as balanced as possible, but I do also know that there's times that you can't have everything.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, that's only three.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  That's fine. That's great. That's a lot. Um, I want to wrap up by just sharing. You know, we've been friends for all over two years now.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  And, you know, we meet a lot. We've gone on holidays together. We've gone on trips. I think that one of the things I, my impression of Tina Tower before I met you was this woman's a firecracker. Like she's got so much energy. She's doing so much. And like, this is me seeing you online. I saw you briefly at Dale's birthday and you gave a speech.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  Uh, in front of his parents, which I thought was very brave of you and you gave a very heartwarming speech.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  One of my favorite people in the world.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Dale's brilliant. I love him. And then we met at Michael Maiden's mastermind. This is kind of first time I got to sit and speak to you and understand. Who you are and the feeling I got when we Nicole and I started to get to know you a little bit and have conversation was like This woman gets it like she like I don't have to like be something else like she gets the fact like I'm unapologetic About how hard I work and how much I care and how much I want to make this happen. I want to win and I thought like that was Really refreshing.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  Because a lot of people in our space, not a lot, but you'll come across people that Have this front where it's like, no, I'm all relaxed and I'm, you know.

• 1:26:23Speaker 02

  I am not relaxed.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have energy, you know, you have energy and you're willing to put it out there and you're not ashamed of it.

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Which I think is great because a lot of especially in recent times, it's like, you know, I don't lift a finger. I just delegate everything and I whatever. And there is place for that. And I think there's levels to business and all that kind of stuff. But

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  You can't be too cool to work hard.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it. And the funny thing is, is that we say that, but We see Elon Musk in the factory. We see Jeff Bezos, you know, going and checking out, you know, how we can improve the, you know, the delivery system and you know, like

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  It's like your wonderful wife Nicole.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  You know, she spoke at our conference this year on, I think the title was like Dollars in the Details. But it's how important those details are. And I do think that that is so essential in that the people that do well, like You care about the output. You want good results for your clients. Like you really do. I know I hold myself At a very high level of expectation. I want to do well. I want people to think To me, the worst thing would ever be that, you know, because I think it matters so much what people say when you're not there. And my worst fear would be that someone was like, did her cost.

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  Like that would be like my worst thing ever. And I know not everyone's going to have exceptional results. That would be unrealistic. But I want everyone to know like it's, it's as good as it can be. And I tried my hardest. Always. I am like a quintessential tryhard.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  If there was a gold star, I want it.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  I'm in this like WhatsApp group and I put this meme. It was like when people ask me, what do I do for a living? And my answer now is my best. I do my best. That's what I do. And that's exactly what you just said.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no half ass, full ass all the way.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go, full ass. Thanks so much, Tina. This has been great and this is long overdue. I just want to say that from afar, when I before I knew you, now that I know you, you've been an inspiration to Nicole and I. You're really somebody that I admire, not only as an entrepreneur and what you've built, but also who you are as a person.

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  That is so lovely. Thank you. It is such an honor to be on here. I mean, it's always cool when you get to be on a show that you're like a fangirl of. And so I'll have to like print out the cover and put it on my wall.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  There you go. Thanks again, Tina. What an incredible conversation with Tina Tower. Without a doubt, she is the real deal, not just because she's built an incredible business, but because how she built it with intention, with courage, with belief in herself. That belief in herself, you could see it, right? If you're watching the video on YouTube, you could see it in her face. She has an unshakable belief that she can do great things. And that is really inspiring. It's contagious too, when you sit with her. And this took some time, right? She started young, she started small and then she built and built and built. It's not overnight. It's not luck. It's all about showing up. It's about staying focused.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  It's about persevering, even when things got really bad, as you heard, as you saw in this interview. I'm gonna tell you something, maybe Tina's not gonna be so happy I shared, but I want to share a little bit of what I know of her as a friend. This is really who Tina is. Tina is full of energy. She is ambitious. She is unashamedly somebody that cares about winning. She wants to win. She's competitive. She's hungry and it's great to see somebody like that. It's great to see somebody that's just like, I'm not ashamed to say that success matters to me. And as entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, I think we all can kind of relate to that, that hey, I don't want to have to apologize for wanting to be successful or wanting to achieve great things, to fulfill

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  my ambition and fulfill my potential. So if you want to continue to, you know, ride the Tina wave, right? If you want to continue to learn from her, I encourage you, check out her free resources and her website over at herempirebuilder.com/free. It's absolutely free. There's nothing, no catch here or anything like that. She's put together some incredible set of tools, trainings, some guides that can help you along your path of expertise. Whether you're a woman, a man, a wife, a husband, a parent, or whatever, I've learned a ton from her just by being her friend. You can also follow her on Instagram, Tina underscore Tower, or connect with her on LinkedIn. And all the links are in the show notes over on our website, 100mba.net, or in the description

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  below the video on YouTube. A huge thanks to Tina for an honest and inspiring conversation. I wanted to bring Tina on the show because I can't tell this story. I can't share this perspective. I don't know what it's like to be a woman in business, a wife, a mother. This is an incredible educational story that I wanted to share because I know there's people listening on my show that could resonate with that. And if it did resonate with you, let me know. Send me a DM on Instagram. I want to hear if this episode helped you in any way.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  If you found today's episode helpful and you want more practical business lessons to help you start, grow, and scale your business, the best thing you could do is subscribe to this podcast. Hit subscribe or follow on your favorite podcast app, the one that you're using right now, whether it's Apple or Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. By hitting subscribe, you get our next episode automatically, and it's the best way to support the show. It's absolutely free, and it's a way for you to commit to growing your business. And now that you've subscribed, I'll check you in the next episode.

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