How Do You Work With Your Spouse Without Sacrificing Your Relationship?

Working side by side with your spouse can sound like a dream or a total disaster depending on who you ask. Maybe you love the idea of building something together, but worry about what happens when work stress spills into your personal life or small disagreements turn into bigger ones. It hits close to home because your relationship is too important to risk.

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• 1:00Speaker 03

  How do you work with your spouse without sacrificing the relationship? This is a question that got sent by one of our listeners, Carrie. And I thought to myself, there is no way I could answer this question alone. I had to bring on Nicole, who is my co-founder, the executive producer of this podcast, and my wife. Welcome, Nicole.

• 1:15Speaker 04

  Hey, everyone. Hey, Omar.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Hey, it's good to have you.

• 1:18Speaker 04

  Happy to be here.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. So when we got this question, we thought, how do we answer this question honestly? So Nicole's been running the show from behind the scenes for over 12 years as the executive producer of the show. We've run multiple businesses together. And one of the things that we get asked constantly when we go to conferences or on podcast interviews together, even just personal relationships. How do you work with your wife? How do you work with your husband? I would kill them if I had to work with them. What are your thoughts when people say that?

• 1:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's always asked in that way. And sometimes it makes me a little bit sad, but I do get where it's coming from. I know that they don't really mean that they want to kill their partner. I know it's a figure of speech. But I do want to say that we're going to talk about the frustrations, the moments of tension, the kinks that we had to work out. Because there are kinks that you have to work out. I think when people ask that question, they just think it's easy or it's natural. Some people can do it. And other people can't. But I think we're gonna be, we're gonna be honest. We're gonna share, you know, those moments where we had to really work out certain things and how we've made it work.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think what a lot of people want to know is like, how do you spend so much time together? How do you disagree without fighting? How do you work together when you have different working styles or even different ambitions? We're gonna cover the good, bad, the ugly. And I think we're gonna share some things that we haven't shared publicly before. So excited for that.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  Welcome back to the $100 MBA Show. I'm your host, Omar Zenhome, where I deliver practical business lessons three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, to help you start, grow, and scale your business.

• 2:55Speaker 03

  I got a quick favorite ask. If this show has helped you in any way, leave me a quick review. You could do so wherever you listen to podcasts. This helps me and my team reach even more people who need the same no-fluff, practical business advice that you're getting from the show. It only takes a few seconds, but it makes a huge difference. Thanks for being a part of our journey to help others on their journey. So just for context, we've been working together for over 14 years as co-founders in multiple businesses. And we spend roughly 90% of our time together. We'll talk about how we do that. We work together, we spend a life together at home, we travel together. Yes, we have our own interests and hobbies and we have our time with our own friends.

• 3:40Speaker 03

  But we also had to manage, what does it look like to share so much together? And I'm also glad that you're on the show because I think you're gonna be able to ask some questions that the viewers are thinking about.

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Right. I'm hoping that I get to join you and ask the questions that people would ask if they were sitting right across from you.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Yep. And by the way, if you have a question you want to ask, you can always submit your question over at 100mba.net/queue and we'll consider it and add it to our queue of Q and A Wednesday episodes. So the first thing I want to share with everybody who's watching and listening is I think Nicole and I got really lucky because we were colleagues before we were romantic partners. Nicole and I both worked at the same higher education institution, the college we're working at in Dubai. She was a teacher in my department, so I saw her as a professional before I saw her as my wife or my significant other. And I think that really helped a lot because I didn't have to adapt to a new idea or adapt to your identity as a coworker, right? As a colleague.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  So when we decided to join forces and work together and build businesses together, it wasn't a foreign concept.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  That is true, so we knew each other in that context. But I have to say that we had the rules and the structure of the organization around us. And so, yes, while I knew you as a colleague, we had to then establish our own rules, our own working styles. And that is, that's different, you know, that it's a different situation to have to navigate.

• 5:09Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. And you alluded to what I think we want to get into first is that Nicole and I are absolute opposites. Okay. And I think that's a good thing because, and I talked about this on the show before, if you're looking for a co-founder, looking to team up with somebody, don't find somebody that's like you because you are already you. The business doesn't need two of you, right? So it's better for you to cover more ground by finding somebody that complements you, somebody that is everything that you're not. And I feel that's what we are for each other. But we had to learn a lot of hard lessons about how we like to work, how we like to think. Tell me a little bit about some of the things you've learned over the years.

• 5:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think you were clearly a few steps ahead. Like when we started our businesses, for me, entrepreneurship was completely new. You'd been building businesses on the side, so I felt like you were a few steps ahead. But that still meant that I had to learn how to be a co-founder and in business with you and operate together in a way that didn't, you know, causes frustration. So I think some of the things that were really apparent from the very beginning is how we think. You like to think solo, you like to think on your own. Your own, whereas I like to talk out ideas. I'm that's, you know, that's just the way I'm wired. I don't know if you've you've had this situation. I know a lot of my friends have had this situation. Have a question in my head. I think I don't know the answer. I come to, you know,

• 6:33Speaker 04

  ask you the question and then as soon as I ask the question, the answer just comes all the time to me. So that's just the way I think and that's just the way I operate and that's okay. And I think we had to learn to understand those nuances and those differences.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the biggest learning for me was you talk so that you can think. I like to think so I can talk. And it's a big difference when you're trying to make decisions, like say, for example, we're trying to make a decision if we're gonna take on a new project or throw on a new event. And I have already thought about this and it's probably been days since I've been thinking about this. And then I approach you and I talk about this and then you start voicing your thoughts about it by speaking about it. And the words that come into your mouth, I actually take as if like, this is what you think. This is what you want. Right? And and no, you're just actually getting to the answer. You're processing your thoughts verbally.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. And like, I love the brainstorming process, but you've come already with the brainstorm that's already happened.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like things to bake in, like I mentioned this to you before, but if you hear an idea from me, especially if it's a significant idea to help grow the business. It's not something I thought of five minutes ago. I've probably thought about it for a few days and I do this on purpose because I like to let ideas simmer. I like to sleep on them. If I wake up and I still think about them, maybe there's something there. But if I kind of forget about it, like, oh, you know, that was just kind of a momentary thought, a fleeting thought. I don't think it's worth sharing.

• 7:58Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, and that's a good point. So we learned early on to set meetings and come together for things with very clear purposes. Like when it was going to be a brainstorming session, it was very clearly, I I realized early on that it really helped to designate, okay, the outcome of this session, this meeting, this time we're coming together is for brainstorming.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  What's this meeting about?

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Nothing has been decided. We're talking it out. And then we became very clear, like about, okay, this meeting is going to be a decision making. At the end, we need to conclude and come up with whatever. Idea we've, you know, we need to come up with a plan, for example. And I think just even establishing those outcomes and being so clear really helped you and I communicate better and work together better. Once we figured that out.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I think if you're gonna work with your significant other, you have to learn a little bit about how they like to communicate, how they like to share ideas. And you have to compromise. You can't just say, no, I don't like that. You gotta do what I do. I I've learned to understand how Nicole likes to operate and I work in her world. Because it's much easier for me to kind of do that than to ask her to change. And I don't expect her to make me change. But at the same time, we gotta meet somewhere in the middle. We gotta work together.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's when, like you said before, you realize that being opposites and bringing different skills and different ways of working to the table is actually something that is a positive. So I think that's good. I think that coming into it, knowing that, like going back to those people that say, I would kill my, you know, partner. Being different is okay. It's actually a positive thing.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  I agree. And I think that the difference, you have to celebrate that. You have to embrace that and you have to utilize that. You can't just be like, okay, this is too hard. I'm not gonna deal with it. And it took some time, you know? People don't realize that, you know, we were colleagues for years, for over like four or five years. And then we worked together as as business partners for now 14 years. So we've ironed out a lot and we're still working through it. One of the things that as co-founders, we prioritize is a a chance for us to meet without the team so that we can make sure we're on the same page. This was really important in the early days because I wanted to make sure that you knew what I wanted to get out of this. Like, what what do you want to get out of this whole journey as as entrepreneurs? And what are you trying to get out of it? Because there's nothing worse than somebody working hard

• 10:16Speaker 03

  and then you don't get the outcome you're looking for. So let's get into some of the things that we want to share publicly. We haven't shared before. We're gonna start a little bit soft here. But one of the things that a lot of people don't know about us is that the first six years or so, first five, six years of us working together as co-founders from, I would say, 2012 on. We spent, I would say, 99% of our time together working on. Business like we really focused on growing the business, building the business, hiring, making a better product, make a better podcast. And we didn't really spend a lot of time on the relationship. Like, we really, that was our relationship. I think, you know, we will still love each other. Romance was there, everything. But I would say the vast majority of our

• 11:00Speaker 03

  conversations was about how we can win in business.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  It was all consuming. I mean, we changed our life, right? We'd gone from working a nine to five to starting these businesses and having to make it work. So I didn't, I mean, you make it sound a little unromantic.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  No, it was.

• 11:17Speaker 04

  But I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. It was all consuming. And I think in the early years, it is. I think it's the different phases that you go through, right?

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a season for us.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  It was a season of just, and for me, it was, it was fine, because it was, it's fun. It's like, this is what we're doing. Every, I mean, it was new for me to do all these different things in businesses, figure out blogging, figure out, you know, email marketing, figure out hiring, customer service, all the different functions. Everything was new. And so that creative process of discovery and figuring things out with you, I didn't see it as like, what else were we gonna do? I mean, this is, this was our life.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. And we had a few restrictions because I think every dollar we made, we threw back into the business, reinvested. So we didn't really have a lot of money to spend to kind of like go on lavish vacations or anything like that. We did go on our first like holiday in six years. We had one failed one, which was like a three day cruise on Carnival, which was a nightmare.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  I didn't think you would mention them.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was a nightmare cruise where basically we were in the room the whole time. And then we had a positive one.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  Like, that sounds, we didn't love the cruise.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  No, we didn't love the cruise. We didn't want to go out there. We didn't want to get out there and mingle with the rest. I mean, it was just, you know,

• 12:34Speaker 04

  It wasn't our vibe.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  It wasn't our vibe. And the reason why is because Nicole and I are a little bit OCD when it comes to cleaning this and it wasn't a very clean cruise. And that was kind of.

• 12:42Speaker 04

  This would be a whole other topic.

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. But we did, we did have a good holiday where we went to Costa Rica. This was like about five years in and it was like a five day holiday. It was the first time we actually shut off from work and we delegated to the team and we only checked in like an hour a day and we were like really nervous about that. Remember that?

• 13:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was our, I felt like that was our first proper trip. And it was the first time that we exercised that, okay, let's just let go, let's trust.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cindy, thank you Cindy.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Thank you Cindy, nothing. And it was the first time that we proved that to ourselves that yeah, if you hire good people, if you have a good team, you don't have to be on everyone all the time.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  But it was a fun holiday that one.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  It was really fun because I really was hungry for experiences outside of business with you. And the moment we checked into the hotel, I asked the receptionist, do you guys do excursions? And she's like, yeah, we do excursions. Here are all the excursions. And like, we signed up for an excursion today. Like we're like, we're gonna do, you know, ATV-ing this day, we're gonna do jet skiing this day, and we're gonna do ziplining this day. And we literally booked all these excursions back to back. And we had a lot of fun. It was a lot of, it was a lot of memories.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  That was fun. I never went ziplining ever again after that, but it was fun. It was like the longest zipline.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  In the world, yes, in Costa Rica.

• 14:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was fun.

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• 14:45Speaker 03

  What we learned along the journey that I want to share with everybody and kind of bring up is, you know, you can always build another business, but it's very hard to create another solid relationship with your significant other, you know, businesses come and go and you gotta really prioritize your personal relationship if you're working with your spouse.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  Yes, of course. The relationship has to come first and it's not just a nice idea. It's, it's really how we operate. And I think the more years you have in business, the more problems you experience, the more wins you experience as well. But then you get used to saying, okay, it's another problem we can solve. Like, that's fine. We'll get past that. You know, this too shall pass. And the more reps you have in that regard, the more, you know, it's not such a big deal. When it comes to like, yeah, okay, there's a problem that we can't solve. No, we can solve it. We will solve. We've solved similar problems in the past. And that's the thing, we've solved those problems in the past together. And I think coming back to that is fundamental.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Speaking of problems.

• 15:41Speaker 04

  Uh oh.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  Sometimes you have to solve some big problems together. Sometimes when you have huge disagreements, especially when that disagreement or that decision is going to impact your business life and your personal life. I think we want to share a story we haven't shared before about a decision that you wanted to make and how we, um, you know, decided to move forward.

• 16:03Speaker 04

  Yes. I mean, I'm a little nervous because we haven't shared this publicly. But the decision that we debated on a lot was shutting down this podcast.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Okay. What year was this around?

• 16:15Speaker 04

  This was 2019.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:17Speaker 04

  Was when we were working with Dan, SaaS Academy.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  And I was wrong and we're still here. So let's fill in.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  So tell me a little bit about why. Let's go back. Why did you want to shut down the podcast?

• 16:29Speaker 04

  I thought we couldn't run the two businesses to the level I wanted at the same time. The hundred R M B A and Webinar Ninja.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 16:37Speaker 04

  I felt like we, to really see them succeed, one of them had to go. And I thought, okay, it's going to have to be the podcast.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Okay. Why did you think the podcast and not Webinar Ninja?

• 16:49Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, they're two very different business models and you know, you learn that. You know, a media company, a podcast is completely different to SaaS.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 16:58Speaker 04

  A software as a service. And I thought at the time that, you know, I'd seen all the unicorns out there. I thought there was more potential for Webinar Ninja.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  But it didn't really, it wasn't like having to choose which one was better than the other. I literally felt that you can't do both. But I know why I was thinking that way, like in hindsight.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Tell me why.

• 17:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I mean, you and I have talked about it. We haven't talked about it publicly, but for me, it was a fundamental shift in my mindset, in my, in my journey and my growth as an entrepreneur. I was still thinking very much like an operator. I thought we had to do everything. Even though we had a team, I felt like if we don't do everything, then nothing can be done to the level that we want to do it. And that's not, I mean, that's maybe a more of an operator mindset versus say, an owner mindset or an investor in the business. That was just the way I was thinking. And I realized, oh, it's not about who can do it. It's not about like, oh, what I need to do. It's who, who can do it? Who can we get help from? Who can we bring in to help us do all the things that we needed to do?

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I'm going to share a couple of perspectives that maybe could add a little bit of context. So when we had this discussion, I was like, what? Like, you know how hard it is to have a successful podcast? Like, we got lightning in a bottle and we won best of iTunes. Like, you know, it's literally like winning an Oscar in podcasting and then saying like, okay, I won my Oscar. I'm going to quit acting and start fishing. You know, it's like, no, we gotta, we gotta keep doing this. And obviously that reaction doesn't communicate well, you know? And I started to think about, okay, how am I going to be able to communicate my vision and communicate my perspective to Nicole in a way that actually she can receive? So two things. One thing I realized is that we were around a lot of lifestyle business type of entrepreneurs where they did everything, right?

• 18:48Speaker 03

  And they kind of worked around their schedule and they prioritized freedom and not business growth.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  And that's not the game in SaaS and software where you are growing so that you can be acquired. So it's like pedal to the metal because you don't have unlimited time.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  So we were in a Different world there and and our podcasting friends were more lifestyle businessy.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  And podcasting has changed over the years. Now podcasts are media companies like ours and they're not lifestyle businesses. So I had to consider the fact that, okay, these are the inputs you're getting, right? The second thing I realized is that I had to ask myself, what is Nicole's value? You know, Nicole really values authority and people that have experience. And even though we've worked with each other for a very long time and we respect each other, it was going to be helpful if we got another person's opinion on this. And like you mentioned, we were working with Dan Martel as our coach in SAS Academy, who was coaching us through Webinar Nujos Growth. But we asked him this question and we had a Zoom call with him and tell us what Dan said.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was like a business therapy session, wasn't it?

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  And when Dan, when the words came out of his mouth, which literally were something to the effect of, don't kill something that's making you money. It was like instant, oh, my God, what did I say? Of course, I get it. I get it. I mean, there was more to the conversation than that and, you know, we worked, we worked through it. And I, you know, we shared this a bit, I shared it a bit flippantly, but I mean, it was our first business. You know, a hundred dollar MBA. And so it wasn't the willy nilly-ness of just like, oh, let's just, you know, get rid of it. I mean, it was literally, you know, the desire to, okay, we just, we can't do everything. And then I realized, no, I was thinking, I was approaching it the wrong way. And through that conversation with Dan, we're still here.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 04

  And.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  And to be honest with you, like, you know, this is a discussion that went on for months.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  And it took a long time for us to both see each other's side of the story and opinion and perspective. And then how are we going to make sure that we both don't feel like we're forced into a decision?

• 20:53Speaker 04

  Right. We had to remain on the same page, which is something I think we haven't talked about. That idea of like the relationship comes first. We're on the same page. We always come back to why are we doing this?

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think what we realized that the same page for us meant, you just wanted to win. Like, you're like, I think we need to sacrifice the show so that we can win in business. And you know, what Dan was kind of teaching us is like, hey, don't worry, you know, like you put a little couple more years into Webber or Ninja, you'll be able to get acquired at some point, which happened in 2024. You can then continue and then focus on the show full time.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. And it also helped us establish more systems that we didn't have. Like, I mean, working through that problem, that tension really made us get clear on, okay, what is it that's maybe not working? Or what are the gaps that we need, we need to fill? And I think we really then leaned on the team more, gave, you know, more responsibility to team members who were ready to, to step into those roles. And then it was like, oh, okay, this isn't a problem anymore. And what seemed like such a huge, yeah, a huge insurmountable problem just needed, you know, a bit more massaging and some outside help as well in that regard, you know, with Dan. And, and yeah, we got through it.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  Aren't you glad we did?

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 04

  I was so glad to be wrong.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  It's rare, but yeah, it was, I'm glad that, that.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  It's rare that I'm wrong?

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Yes, it's rare that you're wrong, yes.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Okay, good. So hoping that's what you meant.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  Hey guys, I hope that this episode is valuable. If it is, do us a favor and hit subscribe. We work so hard to create these episodes for you. So the biggest thank you you can give us is hit that subscribe button on whatever app you're using. But I also want you to hit subscribe because we have an upcoming episode I don't want you to miss. And it's all about, is social media a waste of time for your business? Okay. I was a big hater of social media for nearly a decade. I thought this was like, just not a good return on investment. The amount of time and effort you have to put in, you know, you're, you're not going to see it in your business. Well, I changed my tune about two years ago and it made all the difference. And I want to share with you why I changed my tune and what are some of the things that I did that actually has helped grow our business? Strategies,

• 23:05Speaker 03

  techniques, because it's very easy to get this wrong. It's very easy to just kind of like, think you just post randomly and everything's going to be all right. That's not how social media works. So make sure you subscribe so you don't miss it.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  One of the things that I want to touch on is it's each other's responsibility in a relationship, whether you have a business relationship or a personal relationship, to make sure that each person is encouraging the other person to be their best and not try to change the other person, like really try to utilize their strengths. So one of the things I want to talk about is something that took me all to fully appreciate is, you know, Nicole is very good at the things I'm very bad at, you know, so Nicole's very good at attention to detail. I'm an action taker and I don't really worry so much about the details, but that's okay when you're getting started because you're not really disappointing anybody, right? You're not breaking anything that's really valuable. But as you grow your business, as you grow your show, your podcast, whatever it might be, you know, the details matter because it's what's going to differentiate you from

• 24:01Speaker 03

  the competition. So you're very good, you know, we joke around, call you Hawkeye here in the business, but you really know how to find the flaws and how to make sure that we improve and you're very good at that. You're also amazing at aesthetics. Anything you see in our business, our branding, all the beautiful things you see is all credited to Nicole. I have nothing to do with that, you know, I just say, yeah, that looks cool. And that's, that's not my forte. And it's one of the big reasons why I wanted to bring you on as a co-founder of the first place in the 100MBAs, because I knew that you just graduated from film school and you have a great eye for design and I needed somebody who had that so that we can have great content for our program and for the podcast and all that kind of stuff. So these are some things I not only discovered, but realized, oh, I gotta make sure that

• 24:46Speaker 03

  these are your number one priorities, your responsibilities in the business, because you're going to be able to take us places I can't take us to.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  Thank you for all those wonderful things and I do think you have a good sense of aesthetics. I mean, well, it's my turn to return the favor and genuinely, no, really, share the things that I think you can do that I don't do. And one of the things I've always admired about you is the way you lead. You are someone who goes first. I mean, I'll backtrack a little bit. There were times in the business where we had to have difficult conversations with team members and you were just very happy to have those conversations, not because you relished in it in some like... Weird way. No, that's not, that's not it at all. But you, you had that kind of bravery of leadership of being able to have those difficult conversations that especially early on,

• 25:34Speaker 04

  I really shied away from. So that was definitely something that I could not do and I really respected and admired that you were able to do that. Even just bringing on the team, rallying the team in a way that was always, I, I, you know, I, I always say this, that I don't think people see the humorous side of you enough. And hopefully we can try and get it out of you a little bit more. But you know, the lightness, the jokes, the humor, that really helps to bring people on side. When you're communicating a vision, when you're, you know, rallying the team to get them, you know, behind you on something. That kind of attitude and that spirit really makes it a lot easier for people to back. So that is definitely something that you have, a gift that you have.

• 26:15Speaker 04

  There's another thing that I've always admired that, to be fair, I felt was a deficiency in me. And that's why I, I extra admired it in you. And that was the ability to go first. I always felt like, I mean, that's like a true born leader, right? Someone who goes first. But then I saw, and I don't know if you'll remember Derek Sivers TED Talk, it's like this two minute TED Talk, where he talks about the first follower. So it's all great. We'll link to the show notes, right? We'll put it in the description so people can go and watch it. It's an amazing, very short TED Talk. And the premise is that it's great to have a leader. It's great to have that person that goes first. But there's the first follower that is often underappreciated, but that first follower has to believe.

• 26:58Speaker 04

  And, and there's a bravery in that first follower to follow the lead of that first person. Otherwise that, and you've, you've watched the video, he talks about the lone nut dancing on the hill. Cause that's what the video is about. You see this one guy who starts dancing, he's alone. And then the first person that goes and dances with him now turns into like, and then a third person joins and then it becomes, you know, a movement. All to say that I then appreciated in myself, the fact that there was value in being the number two, supporting you as a leader in, in the business. Yeah, I didn't think less of that in regard. Yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  I think what I mentioned about what you said about or what I said earlier about your attention to detail. I mean, I think it all boils down to the fact that we're opposites in a way where like I don't worry about going first because I'm not so concerned about failing. And that's actually a good thing, but it's also a bad thing because I'm also not careful sometimes of the details that matter. And because of that, maybe you have a little bit more of that fear. You are more attentive to the details so that you try to prevent failure at a higher level, which is really important, especially as we grow the business.

• 28:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I mean, and that's, that's worked for us because I know when to not push back too much and get too stuck into, you know, overthinking or research or hang on, let's, let's really think this out and prevent us from acting. And then you've also taken on board like, okay, let me, let me just, you know, take a moment. And I think that's really helped in a lot of the decisions that we've made.

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• 29:26Speaker 03

  When people ask us the question, how do you work with your spouse? They are looking for some practical rules, like some principles to follow, like, you know, don't talk about work after 6:00 PM and, you know, have a system to have date nights and, you know, there's no work involved, weekends, holidays, things like that. But the reality is, is if you love business as much as we do, that's not very practical. It actually doesn't work.

• 29:50Speaker 04

  It doesn't. I mean, we've tried the whole don't know work talk at dinner. It's just not natural. It's not organic. It doesn't feel, yeah, it doesn't work.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  I think what does work, though, is that sometimes one of us either, or we have sometimes both of us at the same time. We have like a really rough day or rough, meaning it was just like full on. There's a lot to do and maybe you're just really, your brain, I call it, my brain is broken. Like my brain does, the wheels are not turning anymore. And then you, you still have the energy to maybe have a discussion or make a decision. We should do this, you do that tomorrow. Maybe I gotta remember, I gotta tell Subin this, you know? And I'm like, I can't absorb any more information. So you can either make this a monologue, but don't ask me any questions.

• 30:30Speaker 04

  Happy to go on a monologue. Go on a monologue.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. So we respect the fact that, hey, maybe this person's not receptive right now. Let's just, you know, give this person a break.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I think this is as, as simple as it is. We, one of us just says, please, no more work talk.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 04

  And that's it. It's just instant. Another rule that I think is really important, especially as you start, you know, growing a team around you. And especially in the situation, this is in the context of a husband and wife, or partners who run a business, is how to disagree respectfully in front of the team. It's like basically mom and dad fighting in front of the kids. No, that's, that's something that I think we got, we were also really clear about and we're on the same page about.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  Yes, I think both of us care so much about the business. We wanna see our expectations get met. You know, we wanna make sure that we fulfill what we were looking for. That sometimes that passion can be the driving force of maybe some really loud conversations sometimes. And it's not loud like we're angry, you know? Um, they're just loud because we're, there's a lot of energy behind it.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  I don't feel like we've ever gotten loud in, in the team.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  No, no, I'm saying that like sometimes just you and I, you know?

• 31:42Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  So I think a lot of people that don't know that would be a little bit like, what's this? What's going on? Like, are we all in trouble? You know, like, is the business collapsing right now? No, and I think that we had to be mindful of the fact that we can't have those conversations, you know, in front of the team because they're not ready for that. Like, they're not really understanding what's behind that.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  I think it's important when there's two people at, you know, the helm in a way, that in front of the team, there has to be. Stability, there has to be, okay, they know where we're going, they know what we're doing. I think if, and I mean, this is just my personal experience and what I think works. If you don't have a solid foundation, if there is a sense of chaos or instability or disagreement, I think that's unsettling. I don't think that's, that's healthy.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 04

  And so it's as simple as you and I just getting on the same page about, I mean, we're talking about big decisions. We're talking about, you know.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  The direction of the company.

• 32:35Speaker 04

  The direction of the company, strategy, goals, mission, those things are really important for us to be aligned and to not have any, you know, disagreement and to not, not be on the same page.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  So we gotta hash it out.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, so those questions have to be agreed upon and not really something that you explore and discuss in front of the team. Because I, I just don't think it's helpful. I don't know, that's just.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  That's true, but I, I also see it from the perspective of like, these discussions are quite heavy. It takes a lot of energy to actually have these discussions. And I don't think it's anybody's responsibility other than ours, you know, like, I don't want to burden anybody else with that. They didn't sign up for that. Like, I didn't sign up to, you know, be in the, this heated argument, you know? And, you know, sometimes it is, I say argument, sometimes it is an argument because we're still trying to figure out how we're supposed to approach this conversation. And we're still just kind of, you know, not seeing eye to eye yet. And I think it's good to kind of hash it out first.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  And when we're in front of other people publicly, we're trying to be, you know, maximum respect. And I think even privately, we're, we're very respectful, but I think we're, the filter is a little bit off sometimes where we get to chance to just like, you can just give it all you got and, and be as passionate as you want and be your, you know, Italian self and I'm not gonna judge you for that.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, when are we gonna bring in the cultural aspect here of saving face?

• 33:57Speaker 03

  But if you weren't passionate, I would be worried. Like, why is this person not caring about this topic? Like, I want her to fight for her argument, you know?

• 34:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I think we've learned to, again, relationship comes first, the business and those decisions. I think we, we are able to create a bit of distance.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:14Speaker 04

  And be objective, even as passionate as you can get about something that you really care about or that you, you know, really feel like, oh no, this is, this is the way it should be done. I know we're speaking a little bit in, in generalities here, but having that distance and I think really helps. And I think that's one of the rules that we've, I think that that's worked pretty well.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  So that leads us to really the crux of the answer of what we're trying to deliver to Carrie and everybody listening is like, how do you actually work with your spouse without sacrificing the relationship? And I think the work part needs to be figured out as well as the relationship part. And what I mean by that is that we need to be on the same page, you have the same values, the same direction. Like, we have to have the same mission together. Like, it's very hard to work with somebody that closely and not have a shared mission, have a shared vision for what we want to get out of this journey together. And I think that one of the things that we like to do a lot is just check in, like, are you okay with this? Especially when we're making changes, we're transitioning, like, we're now in a new studio, we have a physical office,

• 35:14Speaker 03

  we have, you know, local teammates, new people in our team. So like, it's good for us to make sure, like, hey, is this still something that you want? Is this still something that gets you excited?

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, and I want to talk a little bit more about that, but the visual that I just had, and I always come back to this analogy, I suppose, of the two sunflowers in their independent pots facing the sun, growing and facing the same direction. And what I mean by this, it's like, and I think it comes down to Carrie's question, like, how can you work with someone that maybe thinks differently or operates differently? You love them and all, but, you know, working together is a different dynamic. I think we've, we've said that we are different, you know, we are opposites in many ways. So we've retained that individuality, our little stems in our little pots, but we, we're facing in the same direction.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Because that's our mission, that's our why, we're on the same page about that. And I think that's just helpful to always reconcile those differences and embrace different ways of being, you know, you're a different person than I am, that's of course, right? It's a given. We don't have to be the same, even if we are leading the same company, but we're going the same direction.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  And we're growing in the same direction in our individual pots.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Now, before we wrap up, I do wanna say that there are a lot of positives working with your significant other. One of them, actually, when people ask me, like, "How do you work with your wife?" And I sometimes wonder, "How do you not work with your wife?" Like, how do you come home from work and she kind of doesn't understand the environment you just came out of, the problems that you're going through? I think it's interesting that we both fully understand what our professional lives are like, because we're working together. When we're on holiday and we're having a good time, we're skiing in Japan, and we get a message that, "Oh, we gotta do an ad read," you know that this is important. And when I have to go and do the ad read back in the hotel, you're not saying, "Oh, gosh, you know,

• 37:18Speaker 03

  his job is taking us away from the family or our time together."

• 37:21Speaker 04

  I'm setting up the duna and the pillows and making sure that we've got good sound.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Exactly. Like, you got my back. Like, you feel for me and understand that, okay, we need to do this. You know, this is not something that you're just, like, running away to do your little work.

• 37:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, look, I've always said, "Oh, my gosh, if you can build a business with your significant other, you're one of the luckiest people in the world." But I hope that we've shared and we've given the sense of the fact that there can be disagreements, there could be tension, there can be arguments, all of that. It's not just a cakewalk and it's the best way to be. There's no one way to be. Like, it's worked for us, and honestly, this is just answering the question for anyone who might be thinking about working and building a business with their partner. I hope we've given the two sides of it. But I do think, you know, I feel very grateful that we get to do this together, that we get to build, you know, and have a team around us. And it's a fun way of getting to do what we love to do, you know?

• 38:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I have one more positive that we haven't mentioned yet. And this is a little bit of a deeper one. I think that by working together, by building a business together, you can't help but be very transparent with each other, whether it's your thoughts, how you feel about things, but also just your financials. Everything is out in the open. You understand, like, how much you're making and how much we have to spend and how much we're saving, how much we're investing. Like, this is All very, very a collaboration. I don't think a lot of relationships are like that. You know, I I've met couples that have no idea what their spouse makes. They don't, they don't know the financial burdens they have, whether it's debt or whatever, blah, blah. So I think by building something together, it's kind of like we started together from scratch.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  We understand what we're working towards and I support your goals, vice versa. Even those financial goals, even if if those financial goals include like, hey, I would love to go on this holiday. Or I'd like to take this course or I'd like to, you know, invest in this product or whatever it might be. And because we both understand the financial position we're in, no one's going to ask something that is going to hurt us. And we're all in the vice versa, like, I understand that, hey, of course you could afford that. Go ahead, let's do that. You know, so along the journey, I think that really helped to have that transparent relationship.

• 39:35Speaker 04

  Basically, you don't check my spending.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Well, I've learned to understand that you're a wise spender.

• 39:41Speaker 04

  I am a wise spender. Yeah, we'll leave it at that.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:43Speaker 04

  No, no, I am.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  So you love a good recap, Nicole. Nicole's very sentimental. She likes to, you know, recap every moment in memory. I'm somebody who kind of zooms through life, but she reminds me to kind of enjoy the moment, which is great. So just to recap today's episode, some of my favorite things about working with you and the things that we shared is that we're very honest about what we want to get out of our business relationship. Make sure that we are on the same page. I think that we support each other. I think when you want the other person to win just as much as you want to win, that makes a great relationship, whether it's business or otherwise.

• 40:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think the most important thing that we've realized is there's no place for ego. And this journey teaches you that, you know.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  It's very humbling.

• 40:28Speaker 04

  It's humbling because there's, you know, I love a good I told you so moment. I love to be right, but I'm also, you know, I've learned that it's okay to be wrong. And I learn so much every time I'm wrong. And so, yeah, there's no room for ego. If we want to see each other win, then I think there's no chance of sacrificing the relationship.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 40:50Speaker 04

  That's probably the answer right there.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you want to see each other happy, you want to see each other fulfilled, 100%. Awesome. Well, just to wrap up, thank you Nicole for being here and joining me here on Q and A Wednesday. It was good to have somebody on a show. We've never done a Q and A Wednesday together, so it's kind of nice to have you on this format.

• 41:07Speaker 04

  I had fun. I hope our audience enjoyed this episode. Yeah, would love to hear feedback. Would love to hear what you guys think.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Thank you, Carrie, for asking today's question here on Q and A Wednesday. Remember, if you want to submit a question, just go to 100mba.net/ q to submit a question. I read every single question and we consider them to make sure that we can grab those questions and try to incorporate them in any lesson, but especially here on Q and A Wednesday. Now, if you enjoy this podcast and you want more and you want to continue to learn and build upon what you learned today, we have a recent episode, it was about two weeks ago, where I discuss and share how I found my co-founder. Nicole, how did I discover that this is the person I want to go in business with, who I want to collaborate with, who I want to kind of make sure that I reach my goals with? You know, we talked about complementing each other's skills. So if you want to check out that episode, go ahead. It's called "How I Found My Co-Founder."

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Thanks so much for tuning in. Thanks for being part of the show. Thanks for making it to the end because you're the person that wants to see something all the way to the end. You're going to make it all right in business. I'm rooting for you. Take care. I'll see you next time.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Bye, everyone.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  If you found today's episode helpful and you want more practical business lessons to help you start, grow, and scale your business, the best thing you could do is subscribe to this podcast. Hit subscribe or follow on your favorite podcast app, the one that you're using right now, whether it's Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. By hitting subscribe, you get our next episode automatically and it's the best way to support the show. It's absolutely free and it's a way for you to commit to growing your business. And now that you've subscribed, I'll check you in the next episode.

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