3: Murdered & Stuffed Inside a Wall at Yale University | Annie Le

When 24-year-old Yale grad student Annie Le vanished from a secure campus research building just days before her wedding, the case immediately baffled investigators. With no signs of forced entry, all eyes turned to the one place she should’ve been safe — inside the university’s lab. But what detectives discovered in the building’s security footage and keycard data exposed a chilling truth hidden in plain sight. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise 🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms🚩 Announcements Want to catch Annie LIVE on tour? 🎟 Grab your tickets now for a city near you! &Merch is officially HERE!🛒 Don't miss out before your faves sell out!📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected]📚 Episode Sources ABC News | Archives (FBI) | Cape Cod Times | CBS News | CNN | Daily Mail | Cloudfront (Search Warrants PDF) | George Pallas Blog | Kym Pasqualini (Medium) | Medium (True Crime Stories) | NPR | Oxygen | Rochester Review (University of Rochester) | SFGATE | Sydney Morning Herald (SMH) | The Guardian | Wikipedia | Yale Alumni Magazine | Yale Daily News••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy. Live and uncensored, catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues, and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.

• 0:13Speaker 01

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• 0:34Speaker 02

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• 1:28Annie Elise?

  Hey, everyone. I'm Annie Elise, and welcome back to 10 to Life. Whether you're watching this on YouTube, where, you know, my OG true crime besties watch all my videos every week, or if you are listening to it in the latest format as a podcast. And don't worry, I'm not going to remind you of this every single week, but we are just getting started, so humor me a little bit here, just for a moment here. But for those who didn't hear me talk about this last week, one, first of all, what are you doing? You gotta go back and you gotta listen or you gotta watch our last two episodes that we released, because they were wild, so they are in the feed. Go back, check those out. But two, the big announcement is...

• 2:10Annie Elise?

  That you can also officially listen to episodes of 10 to life weekly wherever you get your podcasts as well as still watch on YouTube. So it's totally up to you, whatever you prefer. We just wanted to make it available both formats, whether you're out running, driving, commuting on the freeway, or if you're at home and you're cooking and you're watching and you're cleaning, whatever it is you want to do, wherever you want to watch, we got your back and we're now available literally everywhere. But either way, I am going to ask you that you hit that subscribe button over on YouTube. And if you're listening to this as a podcast, whether you're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, any of the other podcast platforms, also take a quick second,

• 2:50Annie Elise?

  give this podcast a follow and even better, give it five stars, give it a little 10 star rating so that all new listeners of 10 to life, all of our new 10 to lifers can see what we're all about and join this amazing community that we've created together. I just appreciate you guys so, so much. So for today's story, I'm rewinding us back to September 8th, 2009, when a student at Yale University, Natalie Powers, is at home just hanging out until about 9pm, when she realizes that her roommate isn't home yet. Now Natalie actually had five roommates, all living in this pretty big house, you know, kind of like how you do in college, but she was specifically

• 3:31Annie Elise?

  close to one of the roommates, Annie Lay, like so much so that Natalie pretty much had Annie's schedule memorized and getting home after 9pm was pretty rare for Annie. Sure, Annie worked some pretty long hours and sometimes she'd even stay a little later than usual, just to catch up on work or studying. But Natalie knew that this week wasn't like any other week because Annie was getting married that weekend, Sunday, September 13th, to be exact. And so at first Natalie was probably thinking, okay, Annie had tons of last minute wedding planning details that she had to deal with. She was getting caught up. She was working on all of that, but still she wanted to

• 4:12Annie Elise?

  make sure that like her friend, her girl was good. So to ease her nerves, Natalie texted Annie. And after not getting a response for a bit, She then tried calling Annie, but still there was no response. So now combine the fact that it was unlike Annie to not be at home at that hour, and especially if she was going to be, not to tell any of her roommates where she was, or who she was with, or where she was going. Natalie's kind of like, okay, no, now we gotta call in the reinforcements here. Something's wrong. And I'll be honest, the next best option that's playing in my mind would have been to get in contact with Annie's fiance, you know, check in with him. But I couldn't find out whether or not Natalie did that. Maybe she did check in with him and he hadn't heard from Annie either. I don't really know, I'm not sure.

• 4:57Annie Elise?

  But the main thing is Natalie just had a bad gut feeling that she could not shake. So by 10:40 PM, Natalie called 911. And the police actually decided to meet up with her to get some details about what was going on. And to be fair, they did start investigating right away, but not in the way that you might think. I'm Annie Elise, this is 10 to Life, and let's jump right in.

• 5:35Annie Elise?

  So while the police didn't just dismiss Natalie's call, they weren't convinced that something bad had happened to her. Sure, they could all agree that it seemed like Annie was MIA, but they weren't entirely sold that foul play was involved. So they started by contacting the key people in Annie's life, just making sure that she wasn't with one of them for whatever reason or another. But then, as soon as the investigators learned that Annie's wedding was that upcoming weekend, they started getting some like real tunnel vision here. And they figured that Annie had probably just gotten cold feet. Maybe she was scared of getting married. Maybe she didn't feel the same way about her fiance anymore. Maybe she was too embarrassed to just call off the wedding, so it was more of a runaway bride type situation.

• 6:20Annie Elise?

  But Natalie and everyone else who knew Annie so well were kind of like, no, you don't get it, that is not possible. I mean, she truly seemed genuinely happy with her fiance. Her fiance, and she was so excited to finally get married. She was getting married to a guy named Jonathan Wadaski. Now Jonathan and Annie had first met through different classes and other campus activities while they were both undergrads at the University of Rochester. And their connection was undeniable from the very start. They had a lot in common. They were both hardworking people with big dreams and big aspirations for their careers, and they both loved science. Their friends and family said that one of the first things that they ever bonded over was actually science.

• 7:03Annie Elise?

  And their relationship got pretty serious pretty quickly. Then finally, in July of 2008, Jonathan got down on one knee and he popped the big question. Now Annie was over the moon, so she immediately said yes, and Annie wasted no time at all jumping into wedding planning. Literally, since the minute that Jonathan proposed, Annie had just been gushing over every little detail to make their wedding day the absolute best day of their lives. She constantly was asking friends their opinions, you know, what color palette is best? Do you think July would be too hot for a wedding? Do you think this venue is pretty? Et cetera. I mean, the list went on and on. And sure, you could argue that not everyone knows what's going on behind closed doors.

• 7:46Annie Elise?

  So let's just say hypothetically, say that their relationship maybe wasn't going well. It's possible. Again, hypothetically, because there really was nothing to indicate that that was the situation. But even if that was the reality of their relationship, Annie was still an incredibly responsible girl. There is no way in a million years that she would have genuinely believed that making herself go missing was the only option. You know, instead of just, say, canceling everything and getting whatever money you could back as possible. Not to mention that Annie had worked literally her entire life to get the grades, the GPA, and the work position in the lab that she had.

• 8:27Annie Elise?

  It didn't matter how upset or heartbroken she potentially was or wasn't, she never would have risked losing all of that by bailing on everything and everyone, work and school included. That's just not the type of girl that Annie was. Annie was a first generation Vietnamese American from California and her high school class had voted her most likely to become the next Einstein. That's how smart she is, if that tells you anything. And they weren't just trying to be funny. She was incredibly smart. She was the valedictorian of her high school. She had racked up an entire hundred and sixty thousand dollars in scholarships before even officially deciding on a university. She graduated high school in 2003 and right away she just had a vision of what she wanted

• 9:10Annie Elise?

  her future to look like. She eventually decided to go with the University of Rochester where she later graduated with a bachelor's degree in cell developmental biology with a minor in medical anthology. But getting her bachelor's degree, that was just a pit stop on the road to where she wanted to be in her life. Her ultimate goal was to get her doctorate degree in pharmacology. So basically, she wanted to get her PhD in the study of drugs and how they affect the body. And in 2007, she was accepted into Yale's graduate program, making her one step closer to that goal. And I don't know, when you hear Yale, you just kind of think of how hard and competitive that type of school and program was and still

• 9:52Annie Elise?

  is, right? But she got it. Now, while at Yale, Annie's life was pretty busy and also very chaotic. There were hours upon hours of studying, which that's a no-brainer there, but she also worked at one of the labs at the university. And the funny thing about this was she hadn't even gone searching for the job. It came to her. Pretty early on in her time at Yale, one of her professors had reached out to her and asked her if she would be interested in working under him at his lab, all because of her constant enthusiasm in class. Also, the fact that she was literally one of the best students that he had ever had, someone who had taught for years and had seen, you know, successful student after successful student come through his doors. And of course, Annie was honored and more

• 10:34Annie Elise?

  than happy to accept this position. But as we know, anytime a woman goes missing and they have a boyfriend or a husband, it's pretty much a guarantee that the police are going to look into whether or not they could have been involved in it, right? So the police did just that. They looked into Jonathan, into her fiance. Now Jonathan was also a graduate student at this time, too. Studying applied physics and mathematics while Annie was studying pharmacology. He didn't go to Yale like Annie, though. He actually went to another Ivy League school, Columbia University in New York. Just an incredibly smart couple. So both Jonathan and Annie were at separate universities in separate states, both doing

• 11:16Annie Elise?

  very rigorous academic programs during their phase of their relationship. So even though Yale and Columbia are only like two hours away from each other, I mean, living together, it just wasn't in the cards for them at that point in time. So while detectives were speaking to everyone they could to learn about Annie and about her life, they were also simultaneously checking in with campus security. And thankfully, this is where investigators get their first big lead.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  Having lots of choices sounds like it would be great. Who doesn't want more flavors of ice cream? It turns out the answer is us. Too many choices can make us anxious, overwhelmed. I'm Shankar Vedantam, host of the Hidden Brain Podcast and YouTube channel. Each week, Hidden Brain brings you fascinating, science-backed insights about human behavior. So the next time you have to choose, choose Hidden Brain on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or hiddenbrain.org.

• 12:16Annie Elise?

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• 13:00Annie Elise?

  That I just want to like look lean and like tone and creatine it's targeting exactly that I've noticed a real difference specifically in my arms with just like how sculpted I look and how strong I feel without increasing my diet without increasing any workouts or getting all crazy literally just adding this into my routine. So if you're ready to break up with your bathroom scale and finally see the results that you deserve try creatine today. Go to tone today.com and use code 10 to life for 20% off your first order. That's tone today.com promo code 10 to life. Again, use my code 10 to life to save 20% at tone today.com. That's T O N E today dot com.

• 13:41Speaker 06

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• 14:20Annie Elise?

  Across the Yale's medical school campus, investigators learned that on both the inside and the outside, there were around 70 to 75 different security cameras, a ton of cameras, which you might be thinking, okay, great. That's good, right? And yes, it was. But 70 or so different security cameras in different areas of the building meant that it was going to take a lot of time to comb through all of the footage. So the investigators got to reviewing the footage just second by second, frame by frame. But as they scrubbed the footage, initially, what they found wasn't anything out of the ordinary. At around 10am, the camera captured Annie walking

• 15:02Annie Elise?

  in one of the school buildings, specifically the research lab. Annie was wearing a totally typical outfit, a bright green, short A short sleeve top, a long brown skirt and brown shoes. And it seemed like it was an average day for her. Now, if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about with this footage. But the footage showed Annie holding her books, just walking into the school building, doing the exact same thing that thousands of people had done before her and thousands of people would do after. But as detectives continued sussing out every recorded minute after minute on these cameras, they find no other footage of Annie. And they definitely never see Annie actually leave the building that she entered into, which is obviously super weird and pretty concerning because,

• 15:47Annie Elise?

  as we all know, the amount of hours between the time a person has gone missing to when a search begins is critical. The first 24 to 48 hours are everything. And when detectives talked to Jonathan, who despite the distance was easy to nail down, what he had to share did not ease their concerns. Now, they saw no red flags with Jonathan. Right away, he agreed to do a full-on interview with these detectives. Literally, whatever they asked of him, he did. First, Jonathan told the detectives that he had last heard from Annie at 8:00 a.m. that morning. And he says that Annie told him that she would check back in with him by around 7:00 p.m. But when the time came, she didn't, which wasn't normal.

• 16:29Annie Elise?

  He then also willingly handed over his cellphone, his computer, and his credit cards. But at the end of the day, there was nothing even remotely suspicious about this guy. No red flags from him or from his relationship with Annie. And absolutely nothing that indicated that he was even in the vicinity of the building. And Jonathan also was never seen on any of those security cameras there. He wasn't a student or a worker at the lab, so he wouldn't have had access to any buildings on campus. So now, this research lab building started to get treated like a potential crime scene. They could only cross their fingers and hope that potential evidence hadn't been unknowingly tampered with too much, you know, despite the amount of people who would come in and out of that building by the hour.

• 17:14Annie Elise?

  But once the authorities started scoping out the building, they noticed how high-tech and theoretically safe. It should have been. It was a research lab, so already it was pretty locked down even on a normal day. If just anyone was wandering in or out of the building, they could very easily destroy years' worth of important research. So it was kind of like Fort Knox. Now, at the time that Annie went missing, it was actually one of the most high-security buildings on Yale's entire campus. And I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here a little bit, but I just want this to really sink in. They weren't doing like high school, science fair level type projects here. This was a huge lab. Behind the locked doors of her lab building, there were research studies into medical drugs,

• 17:58Annie Elise?

  treatments for things like diabetes and cancer, and so much more. So in other words, you couldn't just bring a friend with you into this building, or let someone in who was standing outside. The rules surrounding the building were extremely strict, and access was very limited. You had to have a key card to even get inside of the building, which they saw Annie using that to get inside that morning. On top of that, you also had to key in to use different rooms within the building. So this was really serious stuff, where only the most dedicated and elite students and staff members come together to get research done. People like Annie. Inside, they continued to look through other parts of the building, specifically where Annie worked and spent a lot of her time in, such as her office on the third floor.

• 18:43Annie Elise?

  And inside her office was another huge clue, and it was one that really solidified just how wrong the investigators initially were about Annie voluntarily going missing. Because inside, it was her cellphone, purse, wallet, cards, and cash, all still inside her office, just sitting right where she had likely last left them. Almost like she sat all of her stuff down and then left the room to like run to the bathroom or something, and didn't return. Not like she was gathering herself to go missing for whatever reason. I mean, she would at the very least need money for food or even for a place to stay, probably her ID if she was gonna get a hotel room or something, right?

• 19:25Annie Elise?

  So while those closest to Annie said consistently that they know Annie Wouldn't just leave on her own accord, given who she was and what was going on in her life. Given this discovery, the investigators were now officially also on board with that theory. And more so on board with the theory that foul play was likely involved. But who, how, and why was still very much up in the air. Investigators started interviewing and looking into other students and colleagues of Annie's because surely someone had to have seen or heard something right. Or maybe they would even be able to help the detectives build a better timeline, which would then in turn help them look into that security camera footage a little bit better

• 20:09Annie Elise?

  and a little bit, you know, closer, considering there were 70-plus cameras to go through. They talked to some of the other people who were in the building that day and they listened to people who shared when they had last seen Annie, where she had been in the building, what she was doing, where she was at. But most people didn't have much to say as far as seeing something suspicious. But a few people were able to help with a loose timeline. You see, we know that Annie went into the building at around 9:00 a.m., right? Then the detectives learned that her key card was last used at 10:11 a.m., which gave her access to room G13, the lab that she worked in. Some of her colleagues showed the detectives that at 12:59 p.m., she also had sent out

• 20:52Annie Elise?

  a group email to her research group. Pretty much immediately after Annie sent that email, other people were responding, asking questions about the research and, you know, whatever. But Annie never responded to any of those emails. Now, of course, this doesn't narrow down the timeline completely. She could have sat her phone down, she could have gotten some more work done for like 30 minutes to an hour, just forgetting to respond to her emails, and then maybe something could have happened to her. But it was narrowing in a bit. And we can't be completely sure of the exact timeline just based on her lack of response. It's not like the detectives were saying, "Okay, she sent the email at 12:59 p.m., then we believe that one minute later, at 1:00 p.m., someone did something to her." It was more fluid than that.

• 21:37Annie Elise?

  But it still does help a little bit. And it was way More than what they had before. I mean, at the very least, Annie was safe and OK for a few hours after going into work that day. And it also seemed like Lab Room G13 was the last place that Annie had gone. Then the investigators discovered something that really made them feel like, OK, now we're getting somewhere here. See, on the day that Annie went missing, her lab wasn't packed with people. I'm not sure how many people typically were in there on a daily basis, but on this day, it was essentially empty. That is, except for one other person.

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• 22:39Speaker 06

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• 23:18Annie Elise?

  In the lab with Annie on the day that she went missing was not another classmate of Annie's, but instead, an animal research technician by the name of Raymond Clark III, sometimes known as Ray. Now Raymond was only a couple of years older than Annie, and for the last few years, he was the one responsible for the different rodents, mostly mice, who were all being used in research in Rooms G24, G33, and G13. Each room and lab was something different, but in the lab that Annie worked in. They did all sorts of various kinds of experiments on the mice with different enzymes and things like that that could potentially find a cure for cancer

• 23:58Annie Elise?

  or diabetes. He also did some janitorial work here and there. But keeping the cages clean to ensure an ethical environment for the rodents, that was his main task. So as soon as the detectives learned that Raymond was potentially the last person to see Annie, they immediately started digging into his background, looking for anything that potentially was a red flag. But from looking at his files and interviewing his supervisors, Raymond seemed like a pretty average guy. He came to work on time, he got his tasks done, and then he left. There wasn't really anything in particular that stood out. It's not like he had this laundry list of criminal records or seemed like a bad guy on paper. In fact,

• 24:40Annie Elise?

  the only negative thing that anyone had to say about him was that at times he could be a little bit of a control freak, especially when it came to work. But he had never started any trouble or been involved in anything weird inside the workplace itself. So investigators knew that Raymond was going to be the next person that they talked to. And when they brought him in, he told them that, yeah, I was with Annie in the lab around 10:30 a.m. that morning. But they were both doing their own thing, kind of, you know, ships passing in the night. Then he said by 12:00 p.m. he left the room to go to lunch and was back by 12:30 p.m. when sometime between 12:30 p.m. and 12:44 p.m. Annie packed up her things. Specifically, he vividly remembered that she was carrying notebooks and two bags of

• 25:25Annie Elise?

  mouse food in her hands. Then she left. Then he told the detectives that between 1:00 and 1:30 p.m. one of the fire alarms in the building went off and everybody had to go out and evacuate. So that was that. That was really all Raymond could even remember about that day. So realistically, based on his story, Raymond probably went in and out of the room about four or five times. Number one being enter it in the first place and number two, go to lunch and come back. Number three, leave the building because of the fire alarm. And then maybe add And a couple extra trips for water or bathroom or whatever. So when the investigators went to see if Raymond's story matched the activity that's on his key card.

• 26:09Annie Elise?

  They were thinking, okay, if we're being generous, maybe 10 times, probably some swipes here and there in and out, maybe some bathroom breaks. But nope, apparently from 10:40 a.m. to 3:45 p.m. Raymond's key card data showed just how many times he had gone in and out of G13. And also another lab room that was right down the hall. And according to the data, he had gone in and out of those rooms 55 different times. I'll be honest, I'm not someone who has ever worked in a lab. I don't completely understand everything that's being done and the workload of each job within the lab. So maybe if you're listening and you have worked in a lab.

• 26:53Annie Elise?

  And you've been in there before, you'll think that that number does sound fairly normal. But to me, just a regular little layperson, that feels extreme. And it sounded a little high to the investigators too. And while this wasn't something on its own that, you know, was a glaring red flag that said, lock him up. We've got our guy. There was something else that stood out to the detectives. When they interviewed Raymond, he was wearing short sleeves. And on his left bicep was a bright red scratch. And it looked pretty fresh, like it had just happened. So the investigators straight up asked him like, hey, what's this scratch from? And he did the typical like, oh no, this, oh no, it's nothing, it's nothing, you know, nothing to see here.

• 27:35Annie Elise?

  His exact explanation was that his cat had nicked him that day, which coincidence with timing, maybe. Now, I'm not sure if this was something that Raymond had come forward and admitted to, or if it was found some other way. But the detectives also discovered a text exchange between Raymond and Annie from the morning that she disappeared. The texts seemed pretty normal, especially if you didn't know any other backstory. Raymond had asked Annie if they could have a quick meeting that day about the cleanliness of the mice cages in their lab. And Annie being the person who took her work and her research very soon. Seriously, said yes, sure, of course. But all of this combined with the fact that he was the last person to see Annie before she disappeared,

• 28:18Annie Elise?

  it made the investigators keep a close eye on Raymond. He was literally the closest thing that they could call as a person of interest by this point. Now, also by this point, Yale's campus wasn't exactly business as usual, but it also hadn't totally shut down since her disappearance. Everything was still up and running, including the research building and the room with her office in it. But Annie's fellow students and colleagues were all on high alert since day one. The day after Annie went missing, on September 10th, a student named Rachel Roth came forward to the investigators, and she was really freaked out. She'd been working in room G13 that day, but she noticed something really strange and honestly downright scary.

• 29:04Annie Elise?

  Inside the lab, they had several push carts. These push carts had a bunch of different things on them that the students and the workers could, you know, pile onto and push around, so that basically they didn't have to carry whatever it was on their backs or with their hands. And on one of these carts was a box of wipes. Rachel noticed that there was something on the box that really stood out. There was some sort of reddish color on it. And when Rachel got closer, she saw that there was actually a lot of red on the box. And that's when it became clear. It was blood, and not just a little drop or two like somebody had cut themselves. But Rachel described it as looking almost like blood spatter.

• 29:47Annie Elise?

  So in that moment, Rachel was totally convinced that she had just found potential evidence that could prove that something very bad happened to Annie Lay. So she quietly excused herself from the room, and she went to find a nearby officer. Now, because of everything that was going on, they still had detectives all over the building, searching for clues and just keeping an eye out for anything suspicious. And as soon as she got to the officer, she quickly explained what she had just seen. And the officer was kind of like, okay, great, perfect, show me. But again, they both played it cool, trying not to make a big scene that would either maybe tip someone off or freak people out. So they walked back into G13 and Rachel kind of just went back to doing her work,

• 30:31Annie Elise?

  doing her own thing, and the officer just stood around, almost trying to like pass off his presence as simply being nosey or something like that. And that's when he saw something very interesting. When the officer walked into the room, they noticed Raymond, which while he's still, yes, on their radar, his presence wasn't weird. He was supposed to be there because you know, it's his job and all, but then, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Raymond just wiggles his way over to the push carts and tried to just casually like shift that little box with potential blood spatter on it, all to face away from them. A little sleight of hand, if you will. So, being suspicious for obvious reasons, the officer told Raymond to get out of the

• 31:16Annie Elise?

  room, then bagged the box and gathered it as potential evidence. And get this, later that evening, after people were allowed to go back inside of the lab room, someone else went to the investigators, reporting that Raymond had been acting really strange. Apparently, someone saw him on his hands and knees scrubbing the drain on the lab room floor with cleaning solution. Now, this was the one and only drain in the room, underneath the one and only sink in the room. I mean, come on, this does not look good. But that was that. They needed time to evaluate the evidence and they didn't have anything other than some weird feelings about Raymond to actually do anything. The investigators immediately began their most extensive search, because now, the feeling

• 32:01Annie Elise?

  was Annie could actually be missing. So they started with some lockers on the same floor of the building that Annie's office was on. They were separate from any of the actual lab rooms, but this was where everybody could go drop their things for the day before going into each separate lab. So they were scoping them out and locker after locker just kept coming up empty, you know, nothing in them, probably because at this point, they had just shut down the whole place. But then, they opened a locker that was different. Inside was a pair of work boots and a navy blue scrub top. I mean, totally normal considering the environment, right? But when they looked deeper, they saw blood spatter on both the boots and the top.

• 32:45Annie Elise?

  And that is when they saw a name. The name on the back of the work boots was none other than Ray C.

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• 33:30Annie Elise?

  Now naturally, they are thinking of Raymond Clark. But not just because of the fact that he was their only person of interest and the blood spatter from the office that he shared with Annie and, you know, now here, but also the presence of the blue scrubs. Because when they originally viewed the security camera footage from September 8th, Raymond was walking around doing his thing in none other than navy blue scrubs. Yet, at the end of the day, when Raymond was seen leaving the building, he was wearing a dark-colored baseball hat, a dark-colored t-shirt, and jeans. Big change of outfit compared to scrubs. Now, we don't know if he typically changed out of his scrubs or even what he walked in

• 34:11Annie Elise?

  wearing that exact same day, but based on the investigators' logic, it seems to be weird that he changed his clothes, which we assume means he was wearing scrubs when he got to work that day. And the scrubs are now gone, he's wearing different clothing leaving. What happened to those? What's going on? But they still hadn't found Annie, and they hadn't found a body. I mean, sure, all of this evidence doesn't look good and all the evidence against Raymond was pretty damning, but without a body, it was going to be difficult to make a compelling case in front of a jury. They also asked Raymond to take a polygraph. And get this, he did, but he failed it. And not just by one or two things, he literally bombed the entire thing.

• 34:57Annie Elise?

  And we all know that polygraphs can't be used to prove somebody's innocence or guilt. They're inadmissible for a reason. But in this case, it just added to every other suspicion that the investigators had about Raymond. It wasn't like this was the one and only thing that the investigators were working with either, or the one and only thing that kind of like... teed up their spidey senses and made them think that there were a lot of red flags around this guy. Because on Sunday, September 13th, 2009, the day that was supposed to be Annie and Jonathan's wedding day, the investigators were still actively searching the research building, specifically focusing on the locker rooms, since that's where they had found their biggest pieces of evidence, the scrubs and the boots.

• 35:41Annie Elise?

  And when they went back down into the basement area of the building that day, something was different. There was a really foul odor. And the more that they went around the basement, the stronger that that smell got. So then, they brought in cadaver dogs. Everyone knew what the smell likely was, but nobody wanted to believe it. But sure enough, the dogs led them to the bathroom on the basement level of the building, and as the dogs brought them closer and closer to the bathroom, the smell got even worse. And then, the dogs led them right up to a wall inside of the bathroom. And it looked like a fairly normal bathroom wall that was made out of tiles, but with

• 36:24Annie Elise?

  a very small, square, metal door in it. And that door led to an area of a utility space. The investigators knew that behind that door was a shaft in the wall, typically enclosing wires and pipes and things like that, all the basic stuff that's in any building. But behind that wall was something more. It was the body of Annie Lay. She had quite literally been stuffed inside of the wall, and she was almost completely unrecognizable. But she was still wearing her surgical gloves from when she was working in the lab that day. Also, her underwear was pulled down to her ankles.

• 37:04Annie Elise?

  Now, for reference, this space where her body had been shoved into was about the size of a desktop computer screen. Now, she was a very tiny woman. She was about four feet tall, nine inches, and only weighed 89 pounds. But in absolutely no way could her body have been easily placed inside this thing. During her autopsy, the medical examiner determined that Different bones in her body had been broken, like her jaw and her collarbone. And these breaks were not done postmortem, which painted a pretty horrific picture of Annie trying to fight her attacker off. They also determined that her cause of death was strangulation.

• 37:44Annie Elise?

  Now, as the investigators evaluated the crime scene, they discovered a ton beyond just her body. Her killer had been incredibly sloppy. There was DNA everywhere. More specifically, investigators found semen on her underwear and other parts of her body. So on September 15th, Raymond was taken into custody, but not officially arrested yet. And this moment was pretty huge because it was public knowledge that he was the one and only person of interest. So when all of his neighbors saw him being driven in the back of this car with the investigators to the police station, they were literally all cheering. They thought that Annie's case was closed.

• 38:25Annie Elise?

  But here's the thing, that day, he was just giving them some DNA samples after they served him with warrants. He didn't really have a choice and he had to give the detectives a sample. But then, he was released for, quote, "complying with the investigation." Which I've got to say, that was probably an extremely awkward trip back home, seeing all of his neighbors who had just literally cheered and clapped at him being taken to the police station, and now he's being driven back and he's like, "Hey, guys, it's me, it's me." I mean, I think I would have been making sure that all of my windows, my doors, everything was just like locked down that night if I were any of those neighbors, because having this guy come back into the neighborhood, that would have been, you know, unnerving, to say the least.

• 39:09Annie Elise?

  It didn't take long for the results to come back, and the DNA results were a positive match to the DNA that was found on Annie and the DNA that was found at the crime scene. So on September 17th, 2009, Raymond was arrested and he was charged with Annie's murder. Initially, he pleaded not guilty, so it was a bit of a waiting game for Annie's loved ones, just going through the motions and waiting for a trial. But then, in March of 2011, Raymond had a change of heart. And don't be fooled, it was all for selfish reasons. There was some wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes and basically if he pleaded guilty, he would get a shorter sentence. I mean, you know how it goes, right?

• 39:52Annie Elise?

  So he did just that. He pleaded guilty to Annie's murder and in exchange, he only received a sentence of forty-four years in prison, meaning that he will be in prison until 2053, when he is sixty-eight years old. Really not that far off in the future in the grand scheme of things when you think about it. And as awful as that already sounds, it gets worse. In 2023, a new law was put into place that will allow him to be eligible for parole after serving only sixty percent of his sentence. So, a little over twenty-six years. Now that doesn't mean that it will be granted, but the fact that he is even eligible and parole is even an option for someone who took another person's life seems insane to

• 40:37Annie Elise?

  me. And as for the sexual assault, he entered an Alfred plea, which essentially just means that he's not confessing to an assault, he's just conceding to the evidence that they have against him of an assault happening. I mean, just such a coward and little douchey move, in my opinion. Raymond's statement that was read out in court said, "I take full responsibility for my actions. I alone am responsible for the death of Annie Lay and causing tremendous pain to all who loved and cared about Annie. I am truly sorry. I took Annie away from her friends, her family, and most of all, her fiance. I have always tried to do the right thing and stay out of trouble, but I failed. I took a life and continued to lie

• 41:20Annie Elise?

  about it while Annie's friends, family, and fiance sat and waited. I am sorry for putting Annie's friends, family, and fiance through everything. I really never wanted to harm anyone or cause emotional pain to anyone. All I wanted was to be a good son, a good brother, and a good fiance. But again, I failed. I blame only myself and there are no excuses for what I have done. Annie always was and will always be a wonderful person, by far a better person than I will ever be in my life. I'm sorry I lied. I'm sorry I- ruined lives and I'm sorry for taking Annie Lay's life.

• 41:57Annie Elise?

  Now personally, this is just my opinion, but I don't really take apologies very seriously when I know that they only pleaded guilty to avoid the death penalty. I mean, maybe that's just me. Also, he has a fiance. What do you mean you have a fiance? Like, I wonder what is going through her mind through all of this. Like, what is going on? And I tried to dig and get a little bit more information, but everything's pretty buttoned up. It's a little bit difficult to find that. But, uh, boy, I would love to have a conversation with her. Because get this, his apology did work on some people, at least some people in his own life. Because even after admitting to murdering Annie, his fiance Jennifer stood by him. And she regularly visited him in prison.

• 42:41Annie Elise?

  To this day, the investigators still have no idea why Raymond targeted Annie. I mean, sure, according to him, he was sorry, but not sorry enough to ever admit to anything and give her loved ones some sort of closure on what actually happened that day and why.

• 42:55Speaker 07

  There will never be an answer. I mean, even when Raymond Clark spoke today, um, while he certainly appeared remorseful, he didn't provide any answers. There were no, uh, there were no answers given as to what, what caused him to do what he did.

• 43:07Annie Elise?

  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of theories out there, whether it's from the investigators or just people who are familiar with the case. There are theories, but really the investigator's only theory is that maybe he was into Annie and got angry when she turned him down. They had worked together for a while at this point, so maybe he had developed feelings for her and tried to act on those and was distraught that she really was about to get married that weekend and just snapped and lost his mind. I don't know. Yeah, it seems kind of generic, but the investigators really don't have anything else to work with. Other than the fact that Annie was very loyal to Jonathan and that her wedding was coming up.

• 43:49Annie Elise?

  So that maybe that could have been the catalyst that sparked some kind of anger in Raymond. Some people have also speculated that maybe they got into an argument about work stuff, considering the meeting they were supposed to have about the mice. cages and the cleanliness. But we also don't know if that was a genuine concern and problem that Raymond had, or if that was more of a ploy to try to lure Annie to get there and meet up with him. It could go either way. He hasn't said otherwise, and we can't really trust what he says, right? I mean, people did say that he was a control freak about work, so maybe he really did want to meet Annie that day to talk about the mice cages not being clean. And something happened during their conversation that set him off. It's possible, but like I said, he would never admit to anything.

• 44:34Speaker 00

  More crimes at the workplace, more homicides at the workplace, male on female, have to do with rejection than by far any other cause. And in fact, workplace homicides, rejection by one employee of another is actually a phenomenon that's far more described than confrontations over work or disagreement about policy.

• 44:56Annie Elise?

  So maybe one of those theories is true. Or maybe he was just a murderous, disgusting human who had no reason to kill other than the want to kill. At this point, I doubt we will ever learn the truth, as sad as that is. Annie's family wasn't satisfied with the justice, or lack of justice, I should say, that Annie received. They even filed a wrongful death suit against Yale, arguing that the university had been failing to protect its female students for years, especially against sexual assault.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  This whole thing must just be so, so sad.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  And I very missing her.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  I bet.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  And I missing her voice because she very strong woman.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  I know.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  And smart.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Do you hope that this suit is going to protect other women?

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Yes. I speaking for my daughter Annie Lee. Because I don't want, nobody been killing like her because she die in vain, she die for nothing. I want Yale to change the security system and to be safer for the students.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Particularly the women students, right?

• 46:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 46:06Annie Elise?

  The university was quick to fight back, arguing that they couldn't have added any safety measures to the building or campus in general that would have saved Annie's life, which I have to say is super harsh to hear, even as a complete stranger to Annie. So I can't even imagine how her family felt hearing that. Instead of going through the entire legal process, the university just settled out of court. The probate court papers didn't list the settlement amount, but other sources wrote that they were paying her family $3 million. So who knows? Who knows what's true? I mean, I'm sure whatever money they received was nice, but it didn't bring Annie back. And I can only hope that since her death, Yale has kept her death in the back of their minds when it comes to the safety measures that they put in place over the years at the university.

• 46:51Annie Elise?

  It's been years since Annie's life was taken from her, and her legacy still lives in the hearts of those who are lucky enough to know and love her, and even those who didn't have the privilege. And there are three main things that people have to say when they think about Annie and her legacy. Number one is that she was kind. There was never a person that Annie didn't treat as a good friend, even if they were a complete stranger. She believed that being kind was someone's greatest superpower, and she definitely showed that in her everyday life. Number two, she was funny and she had a great sense of humor. Every article I read talked about her bubbly personality and the fact that she made everyone around her laugh all the time.

• 47:34Annie Elise?

  And as you'll hear about in a second here, she was also brilliant. And while she got serious when it came to anything school or work-related, she also knew how to loosen up and just have a good time. And of course, the last thing that everyone says about Annie was that she was undoubtedly the smartest person they knew. I am remembering Annie's... Annie Lay as just one of the most phenomenal people I have ever met. She is by far the most intelligent person I have ever met. We all knew she was going to do wonderful things. She was the one that was going to change the world. And aside from all that, she was hilarious. She was spunky. She was a great friend and just all around a wonderful, wonderful girl.

• 48:19Annie Elise?

  It seemed like anyone who knew Annie, whether they were a longtime friend or only knew her for a short period of time, they could tell you that she really was the best. The sheer amount of people gushing about her to this day really says a lot about the kind of person that she was. Today, there's a fellowship program at Yale that's awarded to doctoral students in the Biological and Biomedical Sciences Program in Yale's School of Medicine, and it is in honor of Annie and everything that she could have and should have been today if she was still alive. So thanks so much for watching and for listening to Annie's story. It's one more way we can keep her legacy alive. Until the next one, please be kind and stay safe. Bye.

• 49:07Speaker 05

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