Public Speaking Is a Skill, Not a Personality | Vinh Giang

Vinh Giang is a communication and public speaking coach and former magician who wrote Before We Forget How to Connect. Communication is a set of temporary behaviors that can be changed, though habits repeated for decades become invisible to the speaker. Topics include his four pillars of voice, body, storytelling and listening, the Spark, Point, Link storytelling method, neutral ears, reviewing recorded video, and Toastmasters table topics.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

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• 2:04Lewis Howes?

  I love this quote from today's guest. Maybe you've decided you're just not a good communicator. You're too quiet, too awkward, not charismatic enough. And you walk into that meeting, that interview, that first date, and you shrink. And you've told yourself, that's just who you are. I'm just that type of person. But what if it's not your personality at all? What if it's just a habit you picked up a long time ago? In this conversation, you're going to learn a simple exercise you can do in the next 20 minutes to find out exactly what's holding your communication back. You'll learn how to look and sound confident before you even feel it.

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  A three-part framework for telling stories people actually remember. And why the stories you are most afraid to tell might be the ones that set you free. Vinh Chiang grew up speaking English as his third language in a family that fled Vietnam as refugees. He left his accounting and law degrees six months before finishing to become a magician. Today, he's a communication coach with more than 17 million followers and the author of the new book, Before We Forget How to Connect. My name is Lewis Howes, and I'm so excited about our guest today. So let's go ahead and dive in.

• 3:25Lewis Howes?

  You talk about there's this childlike wonder that most of us have.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:29Lewis Howes?

  All of us have.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:30Lewis Howes?

  You have a two-year-old. I have twin girls who are one years old. And there's this natural giftedness that they bring to the world. Hopefully, we as parents don't mess it up. But a lot of us have been taught to dim our light through different social settings. And therefore, we get embarrassed, we get insecure, we lose self-confidence. That natural light inside of us, we start to lose. When you were 14, you mentioned you actually changed your name, which allowed you to shift an identity within you to become more of who you felt you wanted to become. Can you tell me first off, how you came up with the idea to shift your name through shifting your identity to bring your light back into the world, to hopefully communicate

• 4:15Lewis Howes?

  to the world who you truly were? And how others can do that in their own lives today?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  It was a very gradual realization because growing up, English is my third language. I first learned a Chinese dialect called Di Chi. And then I learnt Vietnamese fluently. And then I was thrown into school not knowing how to communicate with other kids. So I wasn't even able to share my light, if you were to say it that way, even if I wanted to. And I didn't know what other people were saying to me. So it was a series of experiences where there was unfortunately bullying because I couldn't speak the language. I didn't know what they were talking about. And then it got to a point when I was 14 where, I mean, my, my birth name is Quang. And I was so sick of who Quang had become that I asked my parents, can I change my name to Vin?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  And I chose the name Vin because that is the middle name of every single one of my uncles. So I've got, my dad's got six brothers, seven brothers altogether, and they were my heroes growing up. So I, I looked up to them, the entrepreneurs, they built businesses together, they loved their wives, they look after their family. So I wanted to be more like them. So Quang had a mold, the mold that Quang had up until 14. The awkward kid, the shy kid, they called me the Fobbi kid, fresh off the boat, F O B. So I was the Fobbi kid. So I wanted to break that mold. So to me, the ultimate way to break the mold was to change my name. And my best mate at the time, Lenny, was like, oh, it's so weird. I've called you Quang for 14 years and now I have to call you Vin.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  You know, it's even still a little bit weird for him today, after so many years. But that just gave me a fresh start. Because I think one of the biggest things I've learned, and I feel like this lesson is almost fractal in life, is that all the judgments we make about ourselves, they're not permanent, especially when it comes to the way you communicate. Whereas people will say things like, oh, I'm not charismatic, I'm boring. Whatever it is that they say about themselves, but they make it as if it's permanent. Whereas the way you communicate, it's just a series of behaviors that are all temporary.

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  So it's not your personality, the way you communicate?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  People perceive it to be your personality because that's how they perceive your personality. My, my vocal coach used to always say, your voice is your personality. So when you meet somebody, they will make judgments about your personality based on the way you use your voice. And because of that, we are so attached to that identity because we think that's who we are. But when you strip it back, even though we perceive it to be our personality, it's just a series of behaviors. So you could change those behaviors and it changes the way people perceive you.

• 6:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Even the way you perceive yourself.

• 6:58Lewis Howes?

  So is your voice a part of your personality or a part of a behavioral trait?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Your voice is created through the way you maneuver your tongue, the way you control your soft palate, the way you, the placement of your teeth, the shape of your lips. So the voice is created from that, which is a series of behaviors. And you learn that based on the people you were inspired by when you were young.

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  You're modeling it.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you're kids right now, you're two girls. And my daughter, I've got a son too, but he's nine, they copy everything.

• 7:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  To the way, my daughter, to the way my wife yells at them, she is yelling back at us in the same way.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Everything, it's crazy.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  It's crazy. So they copy everything. They copy from, they see me mow the lawn, so now she wants her own little lawnmower. And she sees me barbecue, so she's got a little barbecue kit. They also copy the way you communicate.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting though, because I have twin girls, they're fraternal, so they're not identical, but they're fraternal, but born at the same time, essentially, same, same mother.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  Same womb, but completely different personalities.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Because they're taking inspiration from different people.

• 8:06Lewis Howes?

  Maybe, maybe, but they, one is more spirited, one is more kind of shy right now.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  You can already tell at one?

• 8:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very, because one just, one is content, quiet, alone by themselves. The other one needs the attention and is like more screaming and bigger personality.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:21Lewis Howes?

  Now, they're both modeling at the same time, but there's different personalities that they have. But what I'm hearing you say, correct me if I'm wrong.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  Is your personality is not your behavior. You can shift your behaviors at any moment, especially to communicate your personality or your voice or your vision to a friend, colleague, coworkers, or the world.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I feel that we have different ways of using our voice when we're with different people.

• 8:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  I think you might find that, especially when you're communicating, sometimes you adjust the way you communicate slightly.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  To make the person feel more comfortable. Sometimes you might be faster in pace. Sometimes you might be more excited because you're with someone and you want to create excitement.

• 8:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  So I think we, we adjust subtly. The, the issue is when you just default in one speaking method.

• 9:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  In every interaction, and you wonder why you're not able to connect with lots of different people. I think of it in terms of music as well. It's like your voice is an instrument and you can play many different genres.

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, both.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Right? Sometimes you're just, some people are just stuck in classical the entire time. And then they find it hard to connect with someone who is proficient in R and B. So I think it's just kind of learning how to play your instrument in many different ways.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  If someone watching or listening came to this, saying, I want to become a better speaker, I want to become a better communicator, I want to make sure I get my message across, for whatever reason, to get the job, to get the relationship, to have better relationships with my friends, family, whatever it might be. If someone's looking to become a stronger speaker, also knowing that this is a process and it takes time to really develop greater communication skills. But what is one thing they could do in the next 10 to 20 minutes to improve their communication skills?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Develop self-awareness instead of trying to get an answer from somebody who will say to you, here are the top three things you should do. I think this is the biggest trap in whether it's self-development or communication.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Is that if you get a generic list.

• 10:22Lewis Howes?

  Then you're gonna achieve generic results. So I think self-awareness, simply because you have a different list of things that you have to work on as compared to someone who's listening to this now.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:33Lewis Howes?

  So then how do you create your own customized list? You have to record a video of yourself.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Oh, well.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  And.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the hardest thing to do.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  So scary.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  You now still?

• 10:43Lewis Howes?

  No, it was.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you love it now.

• 10:44Lewis Howes?

  When I was terrified.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:46Lewis Howes?

  Of speaking.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:47Lewis Howes?

  I asked someone this question who was a professional speaker. I was twenty four. Because I couldn't stand up in front of a group of three peers without stuttering, stumbling, sweating, being nervous, wondering what are they thinking about me? Am I sounding silly or stupid, being insecure? Terrified to speak in front of a group of people in school. And I asked this professional speaker, it's funny because I met him salsa dancing. Cause I was terrified to salsa dance also. And I went all in on salsa dancing to overcome this fear. And I was also terrified of public speaking. And I was like, how do you do both? And make money doing, being a public speaker? He goes, let's have coffee tomorrow and I'll share with you everything. And right away, he was like, if you wanna make a difference in the world, if you wanna make a real impact,

• 11:31Lewis Howes?

  whether it be in your career, relationship, friends, family, you must learn how to communicate effectively to be able to enroll people in you and your vision.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:41Lewis Howes?

  And he was like, the best way to do that is Toastmasters. If you're afraid to speak.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:45Lewis Howes?

  It's like, cause if you're afraid to speak, this will just give you a process and a curriculum. So start learning how to overcome that fear.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  And I went all in on Toastmasters for a year. Every single week and I would record myself and it was horrifying. The first few times, cause I was so humiliated of how bad it was compared to everyone else. But that was my original fear. He gave me self-awareness, like, hey, do this to start just learning how to get up in front of people. That's what I needed, the courage to get up and speak.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:15Lewis Howes?

  Didn't have to look pretty, just do it. From there, I could start to improve strategies and techniques. But that was my self-awareness early on.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  And then the first time you did that video recording of yourself, did you, were you able to pick up two or three key things that you needed to work on?

• 12:29Lewis Howes?

  A lot of things, yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  And I had a coach also that was watching it with me, so it was more horrifying. But I knew as an athlete, I need a coach.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:37Lewis Howes?

  To improve at anything.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  I mean, think about athletes, right? I mean, I don't know that much about sports, but I know that athletes watch themselves back. They watch other elite sports players play. Yeah, that's right. That's the same thing with communication. And I think the biggest problem is that most people have never seen themselves communicate.

• 12:52Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  They see it from their own point of view, but they don't see how other people perceive them.

• 12:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  And you, we have a terrible memory. So you'll do something and you'll go, I think I did pretty good, or I think I did terrible. You're probably wrong either way because you didn't watch it back. So I think the, the, the simple rule I give my students, so if you've got ten to twenty minutes, record yourself speaking for five minutes. And topic of the video, talk about your favorite person, your favorite food. It has to be off the cuff. Why? Because we're trying to tease out, what are your non-functional behaviors? What are you currently doing that's distracting people from the message? You don't know what that is until you go and just record the video. So improvise, speak for five full minutes.

• 13:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Then review it in three different ways. The first time you review it, I don't know if you did this when you did Toastmasters, but the first time you review it, turn the sound up, turn the phone over and just listen.

• 13:45Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  So isolate the auditory component and just listen. Is there anything I'm doing with my voice that's putting people off? That sounds like I'm unhappy or do I sound bored? You'll pick things up immediately, just pick one thing while you're listening to that, that you can improve.

• 14:02Lewis Howes?

  Is my tone off?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:03Lewis Howes?

  Is it fast, is it jittery?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do I seem authentic in what I'm saying? Do I sound sincere? Do I sound, yeah, neutral about it, but I should be excited? Cause I do feel excited. So just write one thing down for auditory. Then the second thing is turn the sound off and just look at yourself now.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Is there something visual you're doing? My visual tick that I still have till today, if people watch this podcast really closely, it's like, keep doing this.

• 14:29Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  Why don't you take the glasses off?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  It's a tick, I can't see.

• 14:33Lewis Howes?

  Contacts?

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  So you double, you, you clutch your glasses.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I tend to just adjust my glasses, a visual tick. And then the, the, the center one is all now the people are gonna watch, but.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  What, why is that tick there, do you think?

• 14:45Speaker 01

  It's a nervous tick of mine. So when I feel nervous, I'll gradually go, some people rub their hands.

• 14:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Right? Some people fidget with their.

• 14:53Lewis Howes?

  Wipe their face or.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  That's right, I have.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  Scratch their nose or whatever it is here.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:57Lewis Howes?

  Touch their hair or something.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everyone's got a different, but again, that's why you have to do this yourself.

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Because if you watch another video, you'll see someone give you a generic list of three things. Don't put your hands in your pocket. I don't do that, right? And so you've got your auditory, pick one thing, you've got your visual, just pick one thing that you notice you can improve on. And then the final one, get it transcribed, right? Once you get it transcribed, now you can put it into A I. Now you can put it, put into A I and go, did I structure my thought well?

• 15:26Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Was I rambling? Did I talk in circles? What are words that I said that added no value to the conversation, filler words, that I should reduce? And then just pick one thing.

• 15:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  So in five minutes, you record the video. In another five to ten minutes, you watch it back and you just pick three things.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  And I think people will be shocked if they just adjusted three things.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  You come across completely differently. For example, I've, I've had students who speak naturally very quiet. And all they did was increase their volume. After they increased their volume, they realized, I don't use my hands at all. So then they go, oh, it's more volume and now I'll use my hands. I, I'm saying I'm a lot. If you just removed the ums and the ahs, reduced them, if you used your hand gestures more and if you increased your volume.

• 16:16Lewis Howes?

  You look like a pro.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Well, you look like a completely different person. You sound like a completely different person. That's how simple the adjustments can be. But they've gotta be for you. As opposed to.

• 16:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Googling or asking chat G P T, hey, what's the top ten things I should do? I think that's why people don't ever change their communication skills is because they're trying to find a list that wasn't made for them.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And you gotta film yourself and, or get feedback from others. The, the great thing about Toastmasters for me that I did.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:47Lewis Howes?

  This is almost twenty years ago now I did it. Was that I filmed myself, but I also had a live audience giving me feedback right after the speech.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Oh, a room full of people giving you feedback. I never did Toastmasters, so this, that's wild.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  The first speech that they have you give, and they do a few things that you mentioned they already do. One is, there's this thing called table topics, which is at any moment, you know, anyone can give a speech any day and they give a random topic. And so they say, stand up to the front of the room, who wants to do this? And they say, here's the topic, go.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  You've got two minutes. You have to improvise and have to come up with something, even if you know nothing about the topic.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  I spent two weeks preparing.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:28Lewis Howes?

  For a five-minute speech. And I hand wrote everything and the whole time I looked down and just, I did not look up once for my first speech. And I remember at the end, I'm sweating, I'm so nervous, I'm reading it, you know, line by line. And then they have to give feedback. Now they give constructive feedback, so they're not just gonna say, you're horrible, right? But right away, they all, they all chose one thing. And there's three kind of moderators, just like you said, you wanna pick three things from watching a video. And each one of them said something like positive, hey, congratulations for getting up here and doing your first speech. That's about all I could say, cause nothing was good. But you had the courage to get up here and you finished it.

• 18:10Lewis Howes?

  Next time, why don't you pause and look up a couple of times at the audience? So it was more of like, give me one cue, okay, can I look up more and pause? And if you can do that for yourself and be constructive or find a coach that can do that for you watching a video, it is gonna make you such a better communicator.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:30Lewis Howes?

  And it's just one step at a time. One step at a time.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  One step at a time.

• 18:32Lewis Howes?

  The other thing you said, which I think was powerful, if you can listen to it and not watch your video.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:38Lewis Howes?

  Then if you can watch it without listening to it.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:40Lewis Howes?

  And then watch and listen to it.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:42Lewis Howes?

  Three different times, you're gonna have a different perspective.

• 18:47Lewis Howes?

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• 19:56Lewis Howes?

  The School of Greatness is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. You know what they say, if you wanna go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, go together. So go with Amica and get coverage from a mutual insurer that's built for their customers. One that looks after what's important to you together. Auto, home, life and more. Coverage that fits your unique needs. Amica helps you protect what matters most. Visit amica.com and get a quote today. I had a, a pretty famous actor on the show many years ago who had some early success in, in acting, booking gigs, but then had a, a dry run for a number of years. Wasn't getting any auditions back, wasn't like booking any gigs.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  And he said, I decided to go to this like, basic acting class. And they filmed us doing some scene, right? And they had this do this three-part exercise that you talk. He said, I want you to listen to it without watching yourself back. Then I want you to watch it without listening and then watch and listen. And he said, there's something happened when I watched myself without listening to it. My body language was all off. Like, I didn't believe myself when I was watching myself without hearing the words. And that realization for me was the thing that started to unlock everything, was just body language. He's like, I could say the right things, but I didn't own it in my body.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  It's so interesting to hear you say that when he watched himself, he didn't believe himself. That's it. When you, when you listen to people like Vanessa Van Edwards, even Mark Bowden, these people talk a lot about body language. We tend to believe more of what people show with their body than what they say with their words. Because it's easy to lie with their words, it's harder to lie with body language. So it's so interesting that that's exactly what he picked up, which is wild. And, and back to what you said before too, I thought was a really interesting point is that when you first did that speech, the most important thing you felt you could do was make sure the content was right. That's why you didn't look up, because you thought that a speech is about what I say. It's not about how I say. But I think it's, it, it, the analogy is, you could get the greatest music written by Beethoven.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  But if you play the music poorly, does the world perceive it to be the greatest music?

• 22:12Lewis Howes?

  Probably not.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  I don't think so at all. And I think that's the same thing when you think about your career. You think about your ability to express love if you're on a date, your ability to express your value at work. You may be the most technically brilliant person in your organization. But if you can't communicate that, are you perceived to be the best? Often not.

• 22:33Lewis Howes?

  And the beautiful thing about this, you don't have to be the best writer or storyteller to give a great speech or to communicate in a way that is authentic. And in fact, and this is the thing that I think saved me. Cause I was like, I'm never going to be the smartest or most talented speaker out there, or the funniest, or tell the best jokes. Or be able to like tie in storytelling so well, like a comedian or something like that.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:58Lewis Howes?

  But if I can show up and be present, like we were talking about before, and connect with people. And then be with them in that moment. I can fumble around, I can mess up, I can forget the joke, I can stutter. But if I'm able to connect with someone and truly be present with the audience. I can make a difference, I can make an impact, I can connect.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:20Lewis Howes?

  And that can be your superpower. Maybe you're not the best storyteller or the best writer or the best, you're not gonna write the best speech. But if you can connect with people and learn how to do that, you can make a real difference.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  I think there's a, there's a saying people say, people don't, people don't care about your content until they know you care about them. So I think it's that connection part. When you're present, you care about people more. And when people can feel that sense of care, they connect more deeply with you.

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  When I was a teenager, I heard that quote, people don't care how much you know till they know how much you care. And I said, I have a chance in life. I literally, I have a chance because I don't know a lot. I'm really bad in school, I'm not that smart or talented, or at least I didn't believe I was at that time, now I think differently. But I was like, I have a chance in life if people know that I care about them.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:10Lewis Howes?

  And like you said, it's more about our way of being.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:15Lewis Howes?

  And how we are with human beings, whether it be our way of being on camera, on social media, in person, which connects us to others.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  There, there's a sound to care. It's like when you, you, you, you took the time to meet my entire team, there's a sound to that.

• 24:32Lewis Howes?

  What is the sound of caring?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  There's a softness in your voice. There's melody in your voice. And even when, when the way you're greeting my team, there's an openness to you, right? You hugged every single person that was in the room, there's like six of them there. You, you took the time to get to know each and every single person. So I think care is the, the time you took for each person. You know, you took the time to go through the book, you knew one of my good friends who's in the studio, Ali, you, you immediately called him out and he's like, this is where you were in the book. So all of that is felt. And I think that's why when, when you meet somebody, sometimes you, you, you. There's, there's a negative version of that, when, when you meet somebody for the first time, you go, I don't know what it is about that person. I, I just can't connect with them, right?

• 25:17Speaker 01

  And, and it's often there's a sound to it, there's a look to it, which then creates a certain feeling.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Right? So there's a, there's a look, there's a sound, it creates a certain feeling. And again, these things can be changed. And often the person that's doing it, that's potentially robbing people the wrong way, nobody tells them. Nobody has unfortunately pulled them aside and said, hey, sometimes you come across as a bit of a wanker.

• 25:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  And no one's taken the time to tell them that. So they don't know they're creating that sound, they have that look on their face, because they've also never watched themselves back. To have this self-awareness. And there's countless times where I have my students do this and they, they're, they're shocked that they are manah.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  They are what?

• 26:00Speaker 01

  They're shocked that they um and they are. They're just, they, they, I can't believe I am an ah that much. But there's an interesting that happens in, interesting thing that happens in communication. When you repeat a behavior for five, 10, 20, 30 years of your life. That behavior now becomes invisible to you.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Until they watch it back and isolate just the sounds, or for some times, they'd actually need to get the transcript. And then they see the word um forty-seven times in five minutes. I'm like, that's fricking crazy.

• 26:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  But it's wild to me as a teacher, when I was first teaching this, it was wild that they didn't know that. I, I thought, how could you not know that? But it's because when you repeat a behavior for that long, it moves from your conscious part of your brain into your subconscious. Cause it's now automatic, you do it automatically.

• 26:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  So again, just speaking to the point of do this exercise, because it will surface non-functional behaviors that have become invisible to you.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  How does someone learn how to build confidence as a communicator and as a speaker or a content creator online? If they don't believe in themselves? If their identity is tied around insecurity and not enoughness?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Ah, then, then you've, you've, we've heard so many wonderful creators online speak to this, I, I believe. Um, Hormozzi has a great one where he says, you have to build the evidence that you are the person you say you are. So if you, if you wanna be more courageous, then it's like, I, I took a page out of his book where I only started taking content creation really, really seriously in twenty twenty during COVID. You just, like you, have to keep showing up and keep doing the thing, right? There's, there's something to be said about courage is a muscle that you have to keep training. Right? It's, it's, it's, again, with my students, I get them to storytell the first time, they go, oh, I'm not a good storyteller, I can't still tell stories really well.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  And you just watch them from version one to version three. And I ask them a simple question, how do you feel now? Oh, so much better. Three reps. And they feel so much better. Whereas I think there's this illusion we have in our minds, that I can't do something until I fully understand it.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  But I think that formula is wrong, so they think, I can't try until I fully understand. I think you don't understand until you try.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  It's true.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  So you have to try poorly.

• 28:31Lewis Howes?

  You have to try and fail.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  And humiliate or embarrass yourself or feel like you're doing that.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  In order for you to say, oh, that's the way not to do it.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:40Lewis Howes?

  How can I make it better?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Because then it improves the trying the second time around.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Right? So, so version one point O is always gonna be crap.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Messy.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, always gonna be terrible, and that's just the price you have to pay.

• 28:53Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  And I think when it comes to confidence, I think about it in the same framework I mentioned before, there's look, feel and sound.

• 29:01Lewis Howes?

  Around confidence.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, around confidence. So if you think about confidence, if you think about look, feel and sound, the way you look, the way you feel and the way you sound. Which one do you think is the hardest one to control out of look, feel and sound?

• 29:13Lewis Howes?

  Look, feel, sound.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  I'm just curious to hear your perspective, what do you think, which one's the hardest one to?

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  I guess if you are not comfortable within your body, then maybe you would say, the way I look and feel.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:27Lewis Howes?

  Because I'm always focused on the negative around how I look.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 29:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, if you're shy, maybe it's around how you sound. So I guess it's about having the awareness around yourself, but I'm not sure what's the, the main that a lot of people say they struggle with, look, feel or sound.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Most people struggle with the way they feel the most, because emotional mastery is really, really difficult, right? So when I ask people that list, generally, it's feel. So if you, if you have look, feel and sound, right? Feel, the one in the middle, is the most difficult. And the thing I, when, when I think about confidence, confidence is a feeling. Right? So confidence is a feeling, it's an emotional state of being. So when you think about it from that perspective, when people wanna be more confident, what do they say to themselves? They, they say, I wish I felt more confident. So then you're reaching for the thing that is the most difficult thing to do when it comes to confidence. Yeah, I just, why can't I just feel more confident? Um, before a speech, I wish I felt more confident for this.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  I wish I felt more confident before I came into this podcast. But don't reach for the thing that's the hardest thing to control. Uh, Coach John Wooden has a beautiful line where he says, if we focus on the thing we can't control, we'll soon lose control of the thing we can control.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  So if you, if you keep focusing on the thing you can't control, well then you'll soon lose control of what, what can you control? The way you look?

• 30:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  And the way you sound.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Because you can control the way you look.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  You can.

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  To a certain point.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Or your posture.

• 30:54Lewis Howes?

  And your dress and, you know.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  A smile on your face?

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Much easier to control than emotions.

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  So, so I think, I think very simply, in that if I'm going on stage or getting ready for a podcast, or maybe for the person listening at home, getting ready for a job interview, speaking in front of your team, well, what can you do with the way you look? Posture. Alright, so posture, shoulders down and back, stand nice and tall, smile on your face, good eye contact.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  Smile goes a long way.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  It does.

• 31:22Lewis Howes?

  Just walk in the room and smile.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:25Lewis Howes?

  People are gonna feel something about you differently.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  But see, there's a connection there.

• 31:29Lewis Howes?

  And then when they feel, you're gonna feel different as well.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  That's right. And the way you shape your face impacts the way you feel too. Right? So, so if you, if you look more confident, gradually you feel more confident. Cause you're sending signals to your brain, oh, I'm confident. This is a non-threatening scenario. Or if you're, if you're small and you're playing very small, you're sending a lot of signals that you are shy and that you're not confident and then you believe it.

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  So then if you look confident and you sound confident, you've got more volume in your voice, more melody in your voice, you pause more. So then if you look confident and you sound confident, it's only a matter of time before you start to feel it.

• 32:08Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  So I'd say, put in the reps, greet people as you meet people in your daily life. Put in the reps with the small things in a greeting, compliment people. These are all wonderful ways to put out goodness into the world, put out more love into the world. And at the same time, practice with your voice, practice with your body language. There's something important here though, as you're practicing this, because if you are shy, this is what keeps people shy. Say for example, you're, you're someone who speaks very quietly, you feel inspired by this, you go home. And then your partner's always known you to be like this, and you go home and you're like, honey, I'm home. This is a new version of me.

• 32:46Lewis Howes?

  It'd be a shock, yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  What's gonna happen? They're immediately gonna go, don't do that.

• 32:50Lewis Howes?

  Uh.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  That's weird. Why? Because again, people perceive your personality through your voice. So when you shift that dramatically, they freak out. Like, oh no, something's changed about my husband. Why is he trying to, why?

• 33:04Speaker 01

  So what you need while you're practicing this is you need what I like to call neutral ears, what my mentors have always called neutral ears. So your partner, your team members, they're not neutral ears.

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Neutral ears are people who have no preconceived ideas of who you are, how you sound, how you look, nothing. So you go and get gas, you go grocery shopping, you take an Uber, these are all neutral ears.

• 33:26Lewis Howes?

  Explore it here.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  Around people that will never talk to you again.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:29Lewis Howes?

  Potentially.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  And never go to the same grocery store again after that if you must, right? But I think it's more just about, in those environments, you don't have preconceived ideas on how you should be.

• 33:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  So you can play.

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  You can play with your instrument. Try keys on your voice you've never played before.

• 33:45Lewis Howes?

  So interesting you say that because I think you, I think in the book you talk about how you went to five different schools.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, five different high schools.

• 33:51Lewis Howes?

  For me, I left home at thirteen, and it's because I was in an environment and maybe a friend group that wasn't inspirational to me at the time. And I didn't feel like I could break free of who I was around this group of people, this school environment setting that I was in.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 34:09Lewis Howes?

  But when I went to a new school, seven hour drive away in a different state.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Seven hours?

• 34:15Lewis Howes?

  I was in a boarding school. Yeah, I begged my parents to send me away, seven hour drive. I, it's like I could become a different person, I could become the person I wanted to become.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Because no one then knew.

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  No one knew me. So it's like I had this ability to, and that's something you did as well. I think fourteen, when you changed your name.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  And when did you do it, thirteen?

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  Thirteen.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  You change your name, I change my state.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:35Lewis Howes?

  My environmental, physical state, location to create that new identity opportunity, you know, that new breakthrough opportunity. And so whether it's shifting your name, changing an environment, or just doing it in neutral ears day to day.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Finding the time to explore this possibility within you. And everything comes back to, in your book, before we forget how to connect, your book that's out, you mentioned these three things. Look, feel, and sound. If you wanna become more confident, it's learning how to look, feel, and sound a certain way. But underneath that, correct me if I'm wrong, Vin, it's all about the ability to be seen for who you are. It's the ability to welcome visibility into yourself.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  And how you look, feel, and sound. Cause most of us are afraid to be seen for who we really are.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Heard as well, both.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Is there anything that you're still afraid to be seen for or visible for? Even with seventeen million followers, billions of views every single year, thousands of students. What are you most afraid to be seen for?

• 35:45Speaker 01

  I think sometimes when you teach this craft, there's this expectation that you are always perfect at it. And I'm afraid to be seen for the times where I still fail with the very skill that I teach at home.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  What's that?

• 36:01Speaker 01

  When my wife and I have an argument and I lose my temper and I am louder than I should be. And when my kids come to me and they're asking to play and I'm not as playful with my voice and I'm not doing some of the things I said because it's been a long day at work and dad's just gotten home. I'm definitely afraid of that, but I'm, I'm, I'm learning that

• 36:29Speaker 01

  trying to be that perfect person who always communicates perfectly, then creates this pressure for yourself.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  And then you're also not making yourself relatable.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  So I think I'm, I'm, I'm on the journey of learning how to share more of those moments as opposed to. Because my students always ask me, is that how you always talk at home? And it's like, no, no, that's not how I always talk.

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  It isn't. It's exhausting and my wife won't handle it. Cause she would just go, just, just, just dial it down. Just dial it down.

• 36:54Lewis Howes?

  Stop performing.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  That's right, right?

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  That's, you ever feel like you're performing in your personal life? Because you're not performing in your business life, but you're

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:02Lewis Howes?

  always teaching in a certain way and feel like you need to be on. Do you feel like you can turn it off at home?

• 37:08Speaker 01

  I, I feel like I can, especially at home, just because the person I'm married to.

• 37:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Okay, she, she, she doesn't, she doesn't handle that. She doesn't like that.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. My wife is, is, Paywen is such a boss.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  What does she say when she feels like you're maybe performing or?

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Early on in our relationship, we had that. I don't do it anymore because I learned very early on.

• 37:26Lewis Howes?

  Cause you were doing magic with her every day.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I did. I, I did magic to try to pick her up. But I think for her, it's, you don't have to do that. Yeah, you don't have to do that with me. You know, and it's something simple as that, that would go, oh, yeah, I'm. It's not magician Vin, it's not communication coach Vin, I'm actually, I'm your boyfriend, I'm your husband, I'm your partner.

• 37:47Lewis Howes?

  Now, here's a question for you.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:49Lewis Howes?

  If she's saying you don't have to do that with me, do you have to do that with anyone else?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  I think there are times where you have to learn to play your song beautifully. Because I've already played my song beautifully for her multiple times, being able to communicate my value as a man. And after you've been able to do that, continuing to do that in a way is good, but for her, it's like with the magic. I thought that magic was something that was the main value for me. I thought that's all my value was. So I kept trying to do magic, but she's like.

• 38:24Lewis Howes?

  It was your gift and talent.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then she goes, I, I actually love you. I don't love the magic. I think that's the most beautiful part of my wife, is that she loved me for me. And I think for the longest time, I hide behind, maybe it was the magic, maybe sometimes it was the performance.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  But I feel like it's still very important because let's, let's, let's give an example here. If I'm being booked to do a presentation and a keynote, every moment of that keynote, I'm on stage, I believe if there's, cause I'm speaking at an event later this month, two and a half thousand people, I'm on stage for thirty minutes. If people have flown from all over the world to see me, I want maximum value per minute for those people. Because I had this one lady, I still, still remember this, I was in Texas, I did a gig in Dallas. And at the end of the event, I spoke for an hour, I got off stage, there was a lady waiting for me and she did not look impressed. And I was like, oh no, she's gonna give me some really negative feedback. And she came up to me and she said,

• 39:24Speaker 01

  you took fifteen hundred hours of life just now.

• 39:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Cause I spoke for an hour, fifteen hundred people, and I did the math, I was like, wow. She goes, you took fifteen hundred hours of life. And then, and then she said with a neutral face, you did good, good young man.

• 39:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I was like, oh, I wish you told your face that before you told me.

• 39:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  And then, but that's always instilled in me. When I'm on stage, I have this sacred time that I have to be able to deliver the best I can.

• 39:56Lewis Howes?

  But don't you have that sacred time every moment with a human being?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  I think you do. Yes, I, I believe you do. But then there are different levels of performance that I think you do need to bring. Right? Because there, there's this rule in the world of theater that I learned too, and it's that be as big as the room. Right? So if the room is just you and me now, if I start to bring this version of me, it's a bit too much. Yeah, it's a bit too much, right? But I think there's different versions of ourselves. And sometimes we have friends who bring too much and then we say, oh, that's performative. And then we sometimes have people in our lives who don't bring much at all, and we go, oh, well, they don't really care. They don't wanna be there. So, so there is something to be said about being as big as the room.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Play to the room, play the song the room needs. I feel that's what's important. And you can't do that unless you've explored your instrument fully. So that's what my wife is saying to me. She goes, you don't need to do that.

• 40:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Because I just came home from teaching a class of four hundred people and I haven't switched gears yet. And I guess she goes, yeah, you're not teaching a class. Because she likes a particular song played a certain way. So you're not able to be dynamic in these different areas of your life if you haven't explored your voice. That's why, that's why in my book, I, I push people to explore your voice and play all the different notes and try playing all the different notes.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  That way, when you're in a specific conversation, you can play the notes that's required to help the person and connect with the person that's in front of you.

• 41:24Lewis Howes?

  My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops because the next one might be exactly what you need. Now let's get back to the conversation.

• 41:53Lewis Howes?

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• 42:35Lewis Howes?

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• 43:05Lewis Howes?

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• 44:08Lewis Howes?

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• 44:37Speaker 01

  What's the note within your song that you're afraid to sing?

• 44:42Speaker 01

  The note that I'm afraid to sing? Or do you feel like you've explored all the notes in your voice? I'm afraid to play songs

• 44:51Speaker 01

  that sometimes have a lot of pain associated with it.

• 44:54Lewis Howes?

  You mean songs of loss?

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Revealing, yeah.

• 44:56Lewis Howes?

  You're opening up?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:57Lewis Howes?

  About how you're feeling around loss or grief or sadness?

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:00Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Because sometimes the emotions are still too strong. And I think I learned a lot about this from Brené. And that, or like all the content I create, I love having fun with my team. I love being optimistic. I love being playful. I love wit. And then as I came across the content from Brené, I started to learn how important it is for us to explore the vulnerable notes. Play songs that make us feel more than just laugh, more than just humor. So I think I am afraid of those parts still.

• 45:35Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  I am still hesitant.

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  Are you hesitant because you haven't healed certain parts of the, those feelings or those memories? Or is it because you're afraid how you'll be perceived by others when you communicate? Or is more, you're afraid that you won't be able to navigate the emotions when you communicate?

• 45:55Speaker 01

  I think all of it.

• 45:56Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  I feel all of it. It's, it's like when I, when I was writing the book, I, I tried to go to those places and it was really hard even to write.

• 46:05Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt, it felt really hard to write. You know, it, it's again, it's songs that I often don't play.

• 46:13Lewis Howes?

  What would your life look like if you were able to play all those songs that you're afraid of?

• 46:20Speaker 01

  I think it would help people have a more rounded view of who I am as a person. I think it would help me feel more healed because I think when you get to share them, it's a release valve. You know, I, I, I don't know if you've ever done that, but I feel like it's

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  Done a lot.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  I feel like it's a release valve.

• 46:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, allows you to release some of that, whereas I, I grew up in a family, my, my dad and his, his brothers, they, they're refugees from Vietnam. So my modeling was hold it all in, walk it off, you'll be right.

• 46:56Lewis Howes?

  Stuff it down?

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  Sweep out of the rug.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  It's why I had no facial expressions in high school.

• 47:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I just didn't move my face because my, my dad, the first book I was given by one of my uncles was, it was Thick Face Black Heart, How to Do Business with Strategies of War.

• 47:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yes, I, I, and my

• 47:15Lewis Howes?

  You just showed no expression? You weren't joyful, angry, happy, sad? You were just neutral?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  My theater coach, when I was young, my theater teacher used to call me Stoneface.

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  Just kind of dead.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I wasn't doing drugs, but I, I, I looked like I was.

• 47:28Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, I, I saw that growing up, so I just modeled.

• 47:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  I just modeled it. So I think I did that physically and I also did that emotionally and I, I did that, you know? And as I started to learn to share these things more with, you know, just my wife or my close friends, it, it eased a lot of it. I, I do think what I do show the world though is probably missing to a degree that part of me.

• 47:55Lewis Howes?

  How much do you feel like?

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:56Lewis Howes?

  What percentage of you have you yet to share with the world or your community?

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  That you're most afraid of?

• 48:04Speaker 01

  It's probably about 10, 15% of me. Yeah, that's probably about 10 to 15% of me.

• 48:08Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  How about you?

• 48:12Speaker 01

  The hell out.

• 48:14Lewis Howes?

  You've done two, you've done a lot.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  A lot of efforts.

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  I've done a lot, I've done a lot of healing work and a lot of revealing myself to my friends, to my family, to my community.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:25Lewis Howes?

  About a decade ago, I started that journey. I wrote a whole book called The Mask of Masculinity, which is about opening up about all my vulnerabilities. And, and the, the traumas essentially that men trapped themselves behind to try to put on a happy face or to, to keep going and kind of how our society encourages this in a lot of ways. And the pain it causes within men and all human beings who hold on to their emotions so tightly and don't release them. And it's a continual journey of releasing and healing. It's not like I'm healed and I'm perfect forever. It's an ongoing journey. But where do you believe you could be by letting go of that 10, 15%?

• 49:09Lewis Howes?

  Whether it be with your intimate community, a coach, a therapist?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:13Lewis Howes?

  The greater community? What could you become and what impact could you have on the people around you? To be truly seen and celebrated and accepted for who you are that you talk about in your book?

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Not just how you show up and perform.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think the, the first thing is there'd be release. I, I think

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel stressed? Do you feel overwhelmed, tightness?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  I feel, the, the, these are the thoughts, you know, sometimes you, you, you hear people say, hey, what's keeping you up at night? You know, and, and for me, it's, it's not intense, but maybe once a quarter in my life, when you have those moments where you reflect, these thoughts come up. You know, and, and I'm curious to ask you this because when you started sharing that, what did it do for you and what did you find it did for your audience? What did you find? How did it help?

• 50:04Lewis Howes?

  Well, first I was terrified. I, I thought my life was over. I thought my

• 50:07Speaker 01

  When you shared it?

• 50:08Lewis Howes?

  Before I shared it, I was like, my business is going to be done. No one's going to follow me. Everyone's going to make fun of me.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Because you're going to share it?

• 50:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Right, wow.

• 50:18Lewis Howes?

  I was like, my, everything's over.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:20Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, am I ready for this?

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:23Lewis Howes?

  Cause I'd never seen, this was 10 years ago, 11 years ago, I'd never seen another man open up about sexual abuse and trauma. And my brother was in prison for many years and domestic violence with my parents and leaving home at 13. Like, I just didn't see other men who looked like me, talking like that. And so I was like, oh, no one accepted me when I was a kid, when I would do the littlest things to show, you know, something. So if I actually revealed myself, everyone's going to hate me. Everyone's going to like, distance themselves from me. No one's going to like me, love me, be my friend. I'm, I'm going to be poor forever. But I was like, if this is the price of peace, of me having peace, and if I can impact one human being from letting go of their pain,

• 51:06Lewis Howes?

  then it's worth it for me to lose everything else because then at least I'll be free. That process has given me a lot more freedom now. So my future self is thanking me for me 10 years ago for doing the hard thing. But that 10, 15% inside of you that you're afraid to reveal, I'm telling you, you know, everything you talk about in this book, be heard, be seen and communicate with confidence. It's going to unlock a new vein that you've never even imagined that your five, 10, 15 year old self is going to say, oh, I didn't need to do the magic to prove my worth.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:40Lewis Howes?

  I didn't need to learn communication skills to prove my worth. But I needed to learn how to accept myself to be seen to me, to have real confidence.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Thank you for that, Lewis.

• 51:51Lewis Howes?

  That's, yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  And I, I, I really believe that me beginning that journey of putting those stories in this book. I, I shared a lot that I've never shared with my Voice.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  What was the thing that was the hardest to share in this book that you still haven't even spoken out loud about, but you wrote it down?

• 52:10Speaker 01

  It's so weird when you are someone who teaches people how to use their voice and their body language. And then you have to write a book where you don't have any of those tools. And one of the craziest challenges in the book was that challenge. And it surfaced the story that I I never have spoken, but I've only ever written. And it's funny because when you're teaching, say, for example, you're teaching voice and you're teaching the pause. How the hell do you teach the pause with words?

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Da da da.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Leave a blank page, you know, and again, I was just thinking to humorous ways to do this immediately. I just went to my go to, which was with, right? And I just, I love that. And but then I I I shared a story in my family that, you know, my my family never really speaks about. I I I share a picture of my dad and his brothers in the in the book. And again, they were my heroes, even though they were stone faced, but they were my heroes. And my eldest uncle, his name's, we call him Yibet.

• 53:10Lewis Howes?

  Yibet?

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Yibet, yeah. And with my uncle, she's the second oldest. He used to love coming over to my my house when I was young. He didn't have a a family. And he would carry me on his back. He'd be like a horse. I'd call him a donkey. My mom's like, don't call your uncle that. Don't be disrespectful. But he just, he just, and he had this joyfulness to him. But then there'll be moment where it's almost like he lags. It's like he's lagging. And I was like, why, why is, why is he running out of batteries? What the hell is going on, mom?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  And I'd always noticed that about him.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  And then my uncle, when I was five, he he passed away. And my family never spoke about it.

• 53:57Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  We just never spoke about it.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  God, it's so interesting.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  And I was, I was, I was really connected to him. And I didn't know how to deal with it. And I I remember years later, my dad would explain to me that. You know, these, these, these pauses or where you thought uncle ran out of batteries. It was because on the night of our family escape, escaping Vietnam, my uncle was the one that kept in the boat. And they had to leave on the stormiest night because that's the one night the Vietcong wouldn't patrol. So then the decision had to be made in an instant. And then my uncle had to make a really, really hard decision because the love of his life was on the other side of the village. And he had his entire family had to lead.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  He left her. And he he got our entire family to safety. We got to a refugee island for two years, got to Australia.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  And my uncle lived with that pain. And I I was four or five when he, I spent all this time with him. I didn't know he was living with that pain. But then it made sense in these moments where he'd look lost. I mean, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't understand what he was going through, but I knew there was something wrong. Because my dad never did that. My other uncles, no one, no one I knew ever did that. But he had these moments where he'd, he'd, he'd look and look at a wall and and there'd be, there'd be nothing. I talked to him, but there'd be nothing, you know, and. And it's, you know, it's something my family, again, we still don't talk about it to today.

• 55:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:33Speaker 01

  And.

• 55:34Lewis Howes?

  Have you tried bringing it up?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  I have, but there's so much pain.

• 55:36Lewis Howes?

  People don't want to talk about it.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, my, my family don't want to talk about it. And and. Like, I, I, I wonder why he passed and how he passed.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  You know, my uncle drank a lot, my uncle smoked a lot. And, you know, it's just like this, this man was a hero in our family.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  You know, and whenever I think about him, I think, gosh, you know, there's a, there's a quote in our culture, which is in Vietnamese is.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Which translates to when you eat the fruit, remember those who helped you plant the tree.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Yibet planted this beautiful tree for our family.

• 56:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's beautiful.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  And he's not here to enjoy the beautiful fruits that he's created.

• 56:21Lewis Howes?

  So sad.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, and, you know, it's wild because there was this moment. And like, I didn't know, like, do I put this in the book, don't I? But I still remember being fourteen, fifteen years old, being, being bullied.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  I still remember this, this dream. I had this dream of, like, I was stuck in a two-story building. And it was a wild dream. I was stuck in this two, two-story building. And there was no way to get up. There's no stairs. There's no ladder. And there was a hole. And as I looked up in the hole, I saw my uncle. And my, my uncle reached down, he lifted me up and. And as weird as it sounds, but that, that moment saved me when I was in my mid teens.

• 57:01Lewis Howes?

  Really? In that dream?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  It was just a dream. And and I remember telling my dad and dad ended up crying and I found myself getting really emotional and crying and. But it's just, I, I, I never sung that song. I never got to sing that song with my parents. I never got to talk to my parents about it until I wrote the book and. I revisited those stories and I could still see the pain in dad's heart. Songs that, like you said, I think, I think they deserve to be played. And while, again, I'm still learning how to play these songs, even though I teach people how to play, I'm still learning how to play it.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Because I'm also scared the emotions, right? Yeah, but and and and writing that, writing these stories, and there are countless other stories I write. That I find really hard to tell in person, that was healing for me. Even though it wasn't maybe for my dad. But it was for me.

• 58:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Because I got to honor him. I I got to write about him and he gets to live on. The impact he's had on our family. So, so I thank you for saying that because I think I feel inspired to to share more of these. Not just in book form. Hopefully one day I can, I can share them more openly.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:22Lewis Howes?

  How many moments or stories of your past do you feel like? You're afraid to talk about with anyone, maybe outside of your wife?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  Maybe you can share some of these things with her, or maybe you can't, but your family, your friends or your community.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:39Lewis Howes?

  How many moments or memories or feelings of your past?

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:43Lewis Howes?

  Are you afraid to talk about?

• 58:45Speaker 01

  I reckon about a dozen.

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:48Lewis Howes?

  I wonder what it would be to just make a list for just you. Not even to like share anything publicly, but just to make a list of all these things. You know, early in my speaking, you know, process. Um, someone told me like make a fear list and then go all in on your fears until the fears disappear. And that's why I started doing salsa dancing is I was like, I can't salsa dance. Who am I to think this, you know, white guy can go into Aladdin world and salsa dance? Um, and I went all in on it for months, years.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:20Lewis Howes?

  Same thing with public speaking. I was terrified, but I was like, all right, I need to go all in on this thing that is holding me back from shining my light.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:28Lewis Howes?

  My forever light. And I wonder what that would be like for you if you just made a list of your fears from the past. So that you can have your forever light be shined as well.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Well, you know, the crazy thing is I've documented them.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Well, because the, the thing about storytelling is when you ask people, hey, can you share a story? The first reaction you get from people is what? I don't have any. I don't have any stories. But then you ask them a follow up question. Have, have you laughed? Have you cried? Have you felt shame? Have you felt rejected? You have thousands of stories. You've just forgotten them. So I think it, it's funny because, and then thank you so much for. For, for sharing your wisdom with me because it's like, I've written these songs down. I've written these stories down. I just haven't played them. And I don't play them openly. I don't play them freely. It's like a category of stories that I've written, but I'm afraid to play. You know, and, and.

• 1:00:24Lewis Howes?

  And maybe you don't have to play them publicly.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

• 1:00:27Lewis Howes?

  What was your birth name?

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Quang.

• 1:00:30Lewis Howes?

  Quang.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it means lot.

• 1:00:32Lewis Howes?

  Light, Quang. So, you know, these stories, maybe it's just for you just to sing back to Quang, your younger version of you.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  And and I think there's, there's something beautiful about it too, in that if, if we, if we, if we make this connected to communication for the listeners, right? I think the stories you document about yourself strengthen your identity.

• 1:00:53Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  And when you don't document anything, then you fall for everything. Someone might make a critical judgment call about something about you, but, but if you've, someone says, oh, that person's so materialistic, but then if you've got. Five stories documented in the last three weeks or three months of you being generous. Well, then you don't fall to that comment because you go, no, no, I'm, I know I'm generous. I documented that. So I think there's a beauty behind documenting the things that emotionally move you. So if you want to be a better communicator, I think it's so important to document the stories. And then with, with your added wisdom there, don't be afraid to play all the songs, right? I've put so much importance on documenting, so I have them and almost not realizing I have a bias towards playing these songs.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  And there is a category of songs I'm afraid to play, right?

• 1:01:40Lewis Howes?

  People like the greatest hits, you know, so you gotta, you gotta know time and place, setting, you gotta know the context. Not every song needs to be sung in certain contexts. It's not going to be received if you don't read the room.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:51Lewis Howes?

  You gotta know what room you're in, gotta know when to set the context and when's the right time to tell that story.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  And then it's, it's, it's, it's the stories that you have. Because I think this is another really important point to bring up too, is that there's, there's another story that I have where I, I quit university with six months to go.

• 1:02:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yes, right. And and that story used to be for me a story of shame. Because I dishonored my parents. They were on a boat for months, a refugee island for two years to come to Australia to give me an education. I got to.

• 1:02:21Lewis Howes?

  You abandoned it.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  I abandoned that.

• 1:02:23Lewis Howes?

  What was it? Law and finance? What was?

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, accounting and law. Yeah, so accounting and law. So I, his five-year degree left six months to go. So shame.

• 1:02:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  I dishonored my parents, a disgrace to my family. I had other Vietnamese families say that, oh, you know, what a disgrace to the Jang family. Right? So, so I felt that.

• 1:02:42Lewis Howes?

  You're throwing away all this, all this opportunity for, for what to be a magician do.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Right? So that was even worse. Like Vietnamese people look at magician and they go, oh, that's like, what, what is that, like a clown? I'm like, I don't know. I feel like magicians here. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I feel like it is. So I felt like that. And that story was connected to shame. And what I realized was that, no, no, that, that story can mean so much more than just shame. That story can mean so much more than just dishonoring my family. That story could also mean. I was really courageous.

• 1:03:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  While all of my friends walked on the route that they were destined for, I stepped off the route. I had so much fear leaving university.

• 1:03:28Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  So, so then I realized that that story could mean so much more. Right? They could mean so much more than that. And it's not just the stories that we share with each other, not just the stories we share with other people. I think there is a lot to be said about the stories you continually retell and you replay in your own head. Because I never shared that story for years because I felt like it was shame. Now I opened my presentations with that story because I found out it inspires people.

• 1:03:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Because I reconnected that story to being about courage.

• 1:03:59Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  I was courageous. I followed my heart. I did the uncommon thing.

• 1:04:03Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  So I, I, I, I think there's a lot to be said as you're documenting all these stories. Maybe the painful ones are the ones that we can share more easily.

• 1:04:13Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  When we've reconnected these stories, we've linked these stories to something more.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Helpful.

• 1:04:18Lewis Howes?

  Creating a different meaning around it too.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Like I'm sure you've had to do, as you've learned, you have to, you had to connect to something else.

• 1:04:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  It doesn't change what happened.

• 1:04:26Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  But it changes what you make it mean for you moving forward.

• 1:04:30Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:31Lewis Howes?

  Speaking of story, what would you say is the perfect story framework?

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:04:36Lewis Howes?

  For everyday human beings.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:04:40Lewis Howes?

  Talking to their friends.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:41Lewis Howes?

  Going to their work.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Lewis Howes?

  Maybe being on a stage or giving a presentation. What is the perfect story framework?

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Lewis Howes?

  That anyone could follow.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  I like to think of it as three parts. It, it, you start with a spark, which to me is a moment. A moment that has emotionally moved you. So, so that's how you know there's a, there's, there's a story worth sharing. So something that's emotionally moved you, there's a spark. And then the moment something sparks, when you're documenting it, write down the who, what, where and when.

• 1:05:08Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Super basic, who, what, where and when. Keep it super simple. And this is for conversational storytelling. And then you just document it, who was there, what was happening, just so you don't forget. Okay, that, that's all you need for the spark. And then after you've got the spark, then what's the point of the story? Like, wh- why are you telling me this story? Because I think what frustrates people the most is you go on this massive storytelling endeavor. And then at the end you go, oh, and that's it.

• 1:05:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  And then it drives people crazy.

• 1:05:34Lewis Howes?

  The meaning, the lesson, the moral.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  That's right. And it's not, not, not people's fault because we often are used to telling a story based on what happened, not what it meant. So when you want to become a better storyteller, the second part of the formula, so you've got the spark and the point. It helps you become more effective already because what, what, what does it mean? And you lead into the point with a simple sentence and you say, hey, the reason I'm sharing this is because. And that just makes people feel so good after listening to a story because they go, oh, this is where you're turning information into insight. That sentence lets people know we're about to turn information into insight. So they go, oh, so their attention peaks and their focus starts to zoom in. And then you show the point. And it could be as simple as that as you're starting. The final part of the formula is the link.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  The link is essentially how you can make that story, same story, relevant in many different situations.

• 1:06:26Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  So one of the biggest reasons people don't storytell is they go, oh, I don't see how that story is relevant. So for example, the Yvette story I've, I, I, I shared about my uncle. I linked that story to what a pause could hold, what a moment of silence could hold that I didn't even know. But it was my ability to think of that link between that world of pain, that world of what my uncle went through and linking it to the pause. And that's how powerful pause can be.

• 1:06:55Lewis Howes?

  Well.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  That required the skill of linking. It's like, that's why you see a lot of professional speakers, they can use the same story, but they link the same story to many different situations.

• 1:07:06Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  So again, it's, it's three parts. So you, you, you learn how to set up a really good spark, bring it to life. And then after that, share a strong point. Now, the reason I'm telling you this story is because.

• 1:07:17Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  And then after that, if you want to, say you link the story to courage, leaving university, you can also link that to something else. You can link that to the people you spend time with. I spent time with a lot of entrepreneurs. That's why I also left university. So I think there's three parts to it. What's the best way to start a story then? With either the peak action moment, the peak emotional moment, or the moment the insight was learned. So start around that. Don't give me a bunch of backstory. Where was the peak action? Where was the peak emotion? And where was the lesson learned? Only tell the story around that. Don't tell me what you did yesterday. Focus on that. That's where the who, the what, the where, the when really comes to life.

• 1:08:00Lewis Howes?

  If you were to give a two-minute example of, I guess, coming here today. Given that we haven't, you haven't left yet, but imagine you're leaving and then you were going to tell someone, hey, let me tell you a story about what I just experienced. Before you go on to your next thing.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  What would you say for sixty seconds around a story around?

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  This is, this is an awful story I'm gonna tell you anyway, because it's quite, it's quite a re, it's TMI, but I'm gonna tell you. We're staying in Pasadena.

• 1:08:25Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  And we had to get to where we are, which is what suburb is this? This is.

• 1:08:28Lewis Howes?

  This is North Hollywood.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  North Hollywood. So we're in North Hollywood. So it was about a forty-minute drive. So we're in the van. I had two black coffees before I jumped in the van with my team because we're jet lagged. Well, jet lag and also something happens to me when I drink coffee. I don't know if it happens to you. So the whole time the team's saying to me, they're saying to me, Dan, are you okay? Like, what's wrong? Are you nervous? I'm like, no, no, guys, I'm okay. I just, I just, I just, like, just let, I'm just doing Wim Hof right now.

• 1:08:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  And they just see the discomfort in me. I needed to go to the toilet.

• 1:08:54Lewis Howes?

  Ah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Really bad, dude. So I was sitting there just trying to clench my butt cheeks. And we get to a red light and I said, guys, I have to go. Open the door, ran into a cafe. It was wild. So did the business. It, I thought I was cleansed, came in here.

• 1:09:15Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  And immediately had to use your toilet again.

• 1:09:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  And the guys are teasing me, they're laughing me, they're like, oh my goodness, how much poop do you have in you? And, and I said to them, okay, I'm cleared. I came in here with you. I sat down, went a third time.

• 1:09:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Lewis Howes?

  Went a third time. Oh, that was before.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was before. But that was a false call. I, I, I went in, sat down, nothing. The reason I'm showing with you this story is because don't drink.

• 1:09:37Lewis Howes?

  That was a spark.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the spark moment for, but, but again, don't drink two black coffees before you're about to jump in. Right? So it can be simple as that, or you can make, it doesn't have to be a TED talk. But it can be as simple as that, or it be, it can be more meaningful if you want it to be more meaningful.

• 1:09:51Lewis Howes?

  Ah, it's just.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  It can say, you, you can make it more meaningful by saying, you know, a huge part of what made me go to the bathroom probably three times was because I was becoming too self-conscious.

• 1:09:58Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  I kept thinking it like I went to, there was nothing, there was nothing, right? But because I became so self-conscious. So I share this with you simply to say, when you're going in to do something with someone, don't make it about you.

• 1:10:10Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Become more Lewis conscious.

• 1:10:14Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Uh, become more conscious about his audience and how you can help his, his audience.

• 1:10:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  And if you become more audience conscious, you have less cognitive capacity to be self-conscious.

• 1:10:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  So you can turn a story about pooping three times.

• 1:10:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  Into a little more meaning.

• 1:10:29Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  By learning how to link it.

• 1:10:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Right? So, so it doesn't have to be a crazy story. It doesn't have to be a disgusting story.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  The little moments in every day can actually be a great story.

• 1:10:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:42Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's beautiful. Poop three times.

• 1:10:49Lewis Howes?

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• 1:11:29Lewis Howes?

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• 1:12:21Lewis Howes?

  That reminds me of a, you know, for many, even though I did Toastmasters for, every week for almost a year.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Lewis Howes?

  And I started to get booked to do paid gigs after that. Actually, I started making money and I was like doing workshops and, and getting asked to speak.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  As a professional speaker?

• 1:12:37Lewis Howes?

  As a speaker, like getting paid. I guess you call it professional.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did that too.

• 1:12:41Lewis Howes?

  But I never thought I would make money speaking, you know, a year before this, right? I was like, the fact that I could go on stage for an hour and get paid.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:49Lewis Howes?

  This is unbelievable.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:12:51Lewis Howes?

  But maybe after eight to ten years of doing this and speaking in bigger and bigger audiences and getting paid more and more and building an audience and a personal brand and all these things.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:13:00Lewis Howes?

  I still found myself a little bit nervous, like the morning of a speech.

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:13:05Lewis Howes?

  First it used to be like the week before the speech, I'd get nervous. Then it was days before, then it was still like the day before. And I was like, why am I still nervous?

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:13:13Lewis Howes?

  And I asked a, you know, a wiser man that I knew who spoke in front of stadiums all the time. And I was like, how do you deal with this? Like, I feel like I, I thought I overcame this fear of speaking on stage by doing all these reps and practicing and all this stuff. Do you ever have this? And he goes, it's rare, but when I do, I know I'm more focused on me than the audience. And so if you ever have that feeling before you go on stage, just say, how can I be of service?

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:39Lewis Howes?

  How can I serve? And if you ever feel like you're losing yourself in the moment or the stage is too big, reconnect to one person, you know, in the first couple of rows that's actually looking at you and just connected them for a minute.

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:51Lewis Howes?

  And act like they're the only person in the room, you're speaking directly to them. Instead of focusing on how do I look in front of this audience and am I saying the right things and that I miss my point? Like, you're gonna make mistakes.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Lewis Howes?

  It's not gonna be the perfect, perfect thing every single time and be okay with knowing you're gonna mess up and just make it about service instead of you.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  I love that. And that's what I love being about. America and Australia, we don't use the word service much.

• 1:14:14Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  We don't use the like to serve.

• 1:14:16Lewis Howes?

  You don't? What do you think about? What do you talk about?

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Don't dream too big sometimes.

• 1:14:21Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's all poppy syndrome. Seems to be a big thing. It's getting better, but I still experience a lot of it. But I just wanna tag on something to what you said. You said to to focus on one person, there's something really powerful you can do there too. You can pair singular eye contact with singular language. A lot of the times when we're on stage, we tend to say things like, hi, everyone. Hi, folks. Hi, guys and gals.

• 1:14:42Lewis Howes?

  Ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, that that's group language, which is great to use at the beginning of a presentation. Acknowledge everybody. So acknowledge everybody, but if you want to learn how to speak to many but connect to, go speak to many and connect to one or the way you connect to one is the same way you speak to many, is look at one person and use singular language. Once you, hi, everyone. Now you go, can you see what I mean? Can can you see how this applies to your life? So go from everyone to now you, you, you, you, you. And when you're looking at that one person and talking, when you use the word you, you'll see them visually acknowledge you and nod, smile and give back, and that makes you less nervous too. So pair what you just said, singular language too, and be conscious of that.

• 1:15:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Because now, even though you're speaking to a room of a thousand people, a hundred people, five people, they're gonna feel like you're speaking to them individually.

• 1:15:34Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Which which is a really fun thing to do.

• 1:15:36Lewis Howes?

  And when someone, when you can connect with one person individually, usually the whole room can feel that energy.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause it makes you more conversational too and takes you out of that, that kind of rehearsed voice.

• 1:15:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  The the the other thing I think a lot of students feel as well, again, it could be before an interview, it could be before you're presenting in front of your team, is the nervousness. How do you actually deal with the shakes?

• 1:16:00Lewis Howes?

  How do you?

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  People often say, oh, my voice is shaking. And and you've got to understand the reason your voice is shaking is because your body's shaking. And your body is connected to your voice and your voice is connected to your body. So why is your body shaking? Your body's shaking is because you've been put into a fight or flight situation, which means adrenaline. And if your body has a lot of adrenaline, you naturally shake. So you've got to manage the adrenaline, which is brisk forms of exercise before you go on stage. That's why you see the great speakers.

• 1:16:30Lewis Howes?

  Tony Robbins jumping on a.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, jumping on a trampoline. It's why backstage before I teach, I'm also doing star jumps. You call them jumping jacks here. Some pushups, brisk form of walking.

• 1:16:39Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  That gets rid of the adrenaline.

• 1:16:41Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Which also gets you to breathe more deeply. So you're oxygenating your body because you're exercising. You're getting rid of the adrenaline. So your body shakes less. If your body's not shaking, your voice doesn't shake. So I think that's just a simple thing to do to manage the nerves. And then what you've shared before and I shared as well is, so you're managing your body, you're managing the nerves, you're managing the psychology. I think if you do those two things, you're in a pretty good spot.

• 1:17:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Cause now you're thinking about the audience.

• 1:17:07Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Now the adrenaline's gone, you're much more calm.

• 1:17:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  You're much more composed.

• 1:17:11Lewis Howes?

  And now you just need to make sure that your preparation, actually, you can deliver.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Well, you make sure you've rehearsed and done well and and yeah, that's another big point.

• 1:17:19Lewis Howes?

  Practiced it, yeah.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  People are nervous because they haven't rehearsed.

• 1:17:21Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  That's another big reason, because what's the thing that people feel the most before they do a presentation? What if I forget what I'm gonna say?

• 1:17:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, forget my lines or something.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, some people also actually over prepare and I still see them nervous.

• 1:17:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  They practice over and over again and they feel like, ah, I don't wanna mess it up. They still are thinking about perfectionism. And you're thinking about yourself.

• 1:17:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  I don't wanna mess it up. I don't wanna look like an idiot. As opposed to, like you said before, being in mindset of service.

• 1:17:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  So I think you you've got to make sure you rehearse well. And you've got to make sure you manage the nerves, the adrenaline, what you're thinking about.

• 1:17:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  I think all of those things are all come together. And then they help you get over the nerves that often make you unravel.

• 1:18:03Lewis Howes?

  Your new book is called Before We Forget How to Connect. In your mind, what exactly are we forgetting?

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  I see it in my kids. You probably see it in yours. When you look at a two-year-old, a one-year-old, when you look at them using their voice to connect with you and their body language to connect with you, it's so free. My daughter, the way she dances around the house and the way she uses her voice, all the different notes, all the different volume levels, it's so free. And I feel as we grow up, we start to lose notes, one or two at a time. We start to lower our volume. We start to be smaller with our body language. And a lot of it starts to disappear.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  And if you look at the creators that people follow the most, if you look at thought leaders that people follow the most, they've just got beautiful use of their instrument. Because how does my daughter connect with me? Through her instrument. And and and why do I find her so adorable? Why do I love her so much? Well, A, we gave birth to her, but B, also because she's playing so, she's so connected to that inner child. And I desire what she has when she does it. It's so beautiful, right? Dancing is one of my kryptonites. So I see her dance and I'm dancing as well and she's loving it. She doesn't judge me, right? So I think we're losing our ability to connect because we're losing our ability to play the very instrument that creates connection. Because we're using it less and less and less. We don't storytell as much. We don't listen to each other as much because the book focuses on four pillars.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Voice, body, storytelling and listening. And so to me, it's the first two parts, voice and body. Learn how to play your instrument. Storytelling, learn how to write great music. Listening, learn how to listen to other people's music. So you learn how to play your songs in life and you also learn how to deeply appreciate other people's music and make them feel heard and seen. So when when I think about it in that way, I go, oh, that's such a wonderful metaphor of being able to

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  create more harmony. Because if you play your instrument well, you can harmonize with others. Whereas connection to me is harmony. And when I see two people not connect, it's because, man, you're playing different, the music's not harmonizing.

• 1:20:14Lewis Howes?

  They're out of alignment.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, whereas when there's harmony, it's beautiful.

• 1:20:17Lewis Howes?

  Well, I'm excited about your book. Before we forget how to connect, I want people to get it. If you wanna be heard, be seen and communicate with confidence, you gotta make sure you get this book. And I would acknowledge you, Vin, for reminding me and reminding us that the most powerful thing that we can have is to be connected to our inner child.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:34Lewis Howes?

  Based on what you just said.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Lewis Howes?

  The thing we all want is that childlike joy that our kids have.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, we do.

• 1:20:41Lewis Howes?

  And I think the thing that we all grieve is the childlike joy that we've let go of inside of ourselves.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:48Lewis Howes?

  Cause we crave wanting it, but we don't feel like we can be seen and heard as that childlike version of ourselves.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:55Lewis Howes?

  So I want to acknowledge you for being on that journey, for starting to open up and reconnect to that child that maybe you had to stuff down, just like you modeled with your family. I acknowledge you for starting to open up about it in the book and here as well. And I know it's gonna be an ongoing journey for you if you choose to accept the call to adventure.

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:21:12Lewis Howes?

  So thank you for the call. On your own time and on your own, you know, choice point. And you know, maybe Ali takes you to a Central Park again and says, hey, it's time you like reactivate that inner child and bring that name back to life in some way throughout your story. So I want to acknowledge you for the journey you're on.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:21:30Lewis Howes?

  And I've got two final questions for you.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:21:32Lewis Howes?

  Uh, people, before I ask them, people can follow you. Ask Vin, V I N H on on YouTube and Instagram and they can get the book as well. This is called The Three Truths. Imagine you get to sing every song you wanna sing for the rest of your life, but it's the last day for you many years in the future.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:50Lewis Howes?

  And you've sung your song, you've connected to your voice, you've harmonized it loud and proud, you've done everything. But for whatever reason, you have to take all of your work with you, all of your messages, your books, your content, videos, they're gone hypothetically in this future timeline. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three messages with the world, three truths. Maybe it's three songs.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  What you just did there is brilliant. You you linked how you normally ask the question to a metaphor that I used. That's a really powerful, that's a really powerful thing you just did.

• 1:22:20Lewis Howes?

  What would those three truths or three songs be for you?

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  The first one would be, to connect all three, I'd say the first one is, the way you currently communicate is just a series of behaviors. So don't be so attached to that. Just just know that that's all that it is. And don't look at the way you communicate and go, that's that's how I'm gonna be for the rest of my life. This is just who I am. No, no, it's not. You you've got this beautiful instrument. It's got eighty-eight keys. It's like a piano. You've you've been playing with five. There's so many others to go explore. So it it's not just a series of behaviors. So don't feel trapped in the thinking of, this is my natural voice. It's not. It's just your habitual voice. Go explore your full instrument. It's the first one.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  The second one would be then a follow-up, which is, don't be so attached to who you are in the present that you don't give the future version of you a chance. There's a future version of you that's a brilliant musician, that can connect with everyone they meet, that can connect deeply, sing the songs that are vulnerable and hard, including me, being able to do that in the future, and songs that bring joy and laughter. So I'm not gonna be so attached to this version of me that's all about being optimistic and being joyful and being playful. But I I also can be in the future, someone who plays songs that really hurt at times. So don't be so attached to who you are in the present. Give that future version of you a chance. And then on your journey of exploration,

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  as you play the different notes, you're inevitably going to start to think, that's not me. That feels fake. That feels phony.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  This is the biggest reason people never change the way they communicate. They change the way they're dressed, they change the partner they're with, they change their house, they change their car, but they never change the way they talk. Why? Because the moment you go and you explore, you go, oh, that's not me. Uh, that's not my natural voice. Again, you lost your natural voice at two. The voice you currently have is your habitual voice. So then in that moment when you're exploring and you feel it's fake and phony, don't rush for that meaning. Reframe it. It's just unfamiliar. And in the moment you think, oh, it's just unfamiliar, that's all. What that does is allows you to continue to explore your instrument.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  And it may be in the way you use your voice, your body language, it may be in the way you storytell. It may be in the way you listen. So I think I'd I'd leave people those three.

• 1:24:43Lewis Howes?

  It's beautiful, man.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's beautiful.

• 1:24:45Lewis Howes?

  Final question, Vin, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  I thought long and hard about this. And in this chapter of my life, greatness is being a master of your craft, but being able to do it with your inner child intact and being joyous and playful while you're doing it. I've I've viewed greatness as a mastery, but then I suffered for it. I was so serious while doing it. I was joyless while doing it. Whereas I've I've I've I've redefined it for myself in this chapter of life, that that greatness is when you see someone who's really good at what they do, but they have so much fun while doing it and they're really locked into their inner.

• 1:25:33Lewis Howes?

  Thanks for being here, man. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Powerful. Thank you. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want

• 1:26:18Lewis Howes?

  weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

• 1:27:01Speaker 04

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• 1:27:31Lewis Howes?

  What do I gift my mom and nieces? Walmart has top brands you know, like Ninja, Disney, Lego. Oh, Dad loves music. Sonos can bring his songs to life with sound that hits just right. And my coffee obsessed bestie? Delongi Brew's coffee right for mornings extra bright. All those great brands at Walmart? Who knew? We knew, now you do too.

• 1:27:58Speaker 03

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