913 Greatness Redefined with Mel Robbins, Esther Perel, Maria Sharapova and Najwa Zebian

Don't let anyone stop you from becoming your best self. For this episode of The School of Greatness, I wanted to revisit the wisdom of some amazing women from our Summit of Greatness conference in 2017. These women are so empowering, and their words have stayed with me for these past few years. Mel Robbins is the most booked female speaker on the planet with a 7 figure speaking business. She is the author of the international best seller The 5 Second Rule, and she now she has a daytime talk show called The Mel Robbins Show. In 2018, she gave a fantastic TEDx talk titled "How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over" that has over 22 million views. Psychotherapist and New York Times bestselling author Esther Perel is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on modern relationships. Her newest book is the New York Times bestseller The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity. Esther unpacks what infidelity really is, why even happy people can be unfaithful, and how couples can recover from such a traumatic experience. Najwa Zebian is a Lebanese-Canadian activist, author, speaker and educator. She focuses on empowering people that have been abused and displaced. Najwa has become a trailblazing voice for women everywhere and has been highlighted by The New York Times and CBS News, among others. She has also creatively collaborated with Google, RBC, Kohl’s and Cirque du Soleil. She is host of the podcast Stories of the Soul which is all about inspiring people to heal from pain, suffering and abuse. Maria Sharapova is a Tennis Champion, author, and entrepreneur. She won her first Grand Slam tournament at just 17 years old. She’s held major commercial endorsements with companies including Nike and Tiffany & Co. She founded Sugarpova, a premium candy line, which is packed with antioxidants and non-GMO ingredients that are worth indulging in. She also founded the Maria Sharapova Foundation which helps children around the world pursue their dreams through education and scholarships. All of these women have unique wisdom that refine greatness in a truly inspiring way. Join us in Episode 913 to learn how you too can share your story with confidence, overcome negativity and become the best version of yourself you can be. Maria, what is one piece of advice you would give to all budding entrepreneurs? (7:15)Maria, how do you handle criticism? (11:26)Najwa, how do you balance sharing your vulnerable, painful story with being hopeful? (20:50)Esther, how do I handle the outside pressure of being with a wonderful man who doesn’t look great on paper? (33:50)Mel, does inspiration build action and courage? (46:05)How to get a new perspective on something you have done for a long time (3:30)How Maria mentally switched from being just an athlete to being an entrepreneur (5:20)Inspiration to fire you up if you are at the bottom (14:35)How to overcome negative self-talk and negative voices from your family (24:22)How to honor your parents while having healthy boundaries with them (8:40)Why it’s so important for everyone to have an open conversation about sex (32:10)How to date and commit to a partner when there are so many options (37:40)How to re-establish a connection with your previous partner after a divorce (43:40)Why imposter syndrome can be a good thing (44:30)How to find your voice if you’ve experienced an abusive relationship (47:10)If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/913 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 913 on Greatness Redefined and Sharing Your Own Story. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Maya Angelou said, "All great achievements require time." Welcome to this episode today, guys. I'm actually in the middle of Puerto Rico, spending some quality time with some of the biggest thought leaders, New York Times bestselling authors, entrepreneurs who've built and sold billion dollar companies, and just all around great human beings in the world. We're connecting with Brendon Burchard, going over how to make a bigger impact in the world, how to build our businesses so that we can have more resources to impact more people, how to create movements. And it's been a powerful last few days. And it's

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  reminding me about time. How do we use our time? How long things take in order to build something meaningful, a movement takes time. Things don't happen overnight. And sometimes we lose sight of that and we want it so fast. And we forget the power of our story. And we sometimes are so limited by our beliefs of what is possible in a limited amount of time as well. And this episode is an incredible series of interviews with some powerful women. We've got Esther Perel, who's a New York Times bestselling author and recognized as

• 1:52Lewis Howes?

  one of today's most insightful and original voices on modern relationships. We've got Mel Robbins, The Five Second Rule, and her new show, The Mel Robbins Show. We've got Najwa Zebian, who's an amazing speaker, poet, and author, and the world champion Maria Sharapova.

• 2:14Lewis Howes?

  All on here, talking about a number of different things. And we hit on a range of topics with these experts, answering questions directly from the audience at Summit of Greatness. And if you haven't been to the Summit of Greatness, this is our annual event. You can go to summitofgreatness.com to learn more about it. And we just announced our first few speakers for this year. We talk about the importance of sharing your story and how to manage negative backlash, as all these women have experienced backlash on their rise to greatness. We break down the stereotypes of relationships and what society defines as gender roles in romantic partnerships.

• 2:57Lewis Howes?

  We talk about how to break the habits that hold you back in your life from reaching your full potential. So if you've got negative habits, how to break those. We talk about when you're at the top of your business and career, how to keep your hunger, your drive, and your peace of mind when other people are coming at you. That and so much more. I'm very excited about this. Some incredible women that we've got on here. Make sure to share this out on your social media, lewishouse.com/913, and tag the ladies. You can also go to the show notes and learn more about them and connect with them over there. And now I'm excited to get into this episode with the ladies of greatness.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Maria, your podcast, They Were Great with Lewis, I learned a ton about you.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  And how genuine you are, how honest you are. And something I really enjoyed was, for a while, you said you hated being in the car, that everyone knew it was a tournament, it was a tournament car, you didn't like it. Was it your time away from the sport? Or did something change over those 15 months that now you embrace it again? You like those things, you enjoy it?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a great question. I think when you do something for a very long time, and as specific as tennis is, and it's around the world, in a very similar places tournament at the same time of the year, you know where you're going, you know what you're getting, you know the people. There's a sense of routine and all of that, which is very comforting. But when you've been around the block for so many years, you have to find ways to motivate yourself. And being away from the game for that period of time... It gives you a new sense of perspective. As I went into this year's US Open and I get to a grand slam like five or six days before the tournament starts to get used to the conditions, practice on the courts.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  And I remember my coach booked a practice on center court like four days before the tournament began. And the day before we were supposed to practice, they had an issue with the court and everyone that was scheduled to practice on center was canceled. And when he told me, I literally felt like, I don't know, someone kicked my dog. Like it was an awful feeling. And I was like, I've practiced on that court for so long. I've played on it, I've practiced on it. And it was like I realized that right there, right then, that this was something new to me. Like I was looking forward to it, like how much I missed it. And yeah, it's those little things that you need to gain appreciation and sometimes that's what it takes.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Awesome, thank you.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  My question is, you grew up in tennis and tennis was pretty much your mentality. Louis talked about how he had that one moment where he's like, oh, holy [bleep], I'm an entrepreneur. And I know as an entrepreneur, I've had that moment as well. So I'm really curious to see or to know that moment from you, from when your brain switched to Maria Sharapova, the amazing tennis player, to I'm Maria Sharapova, a business owner and an entrepreneur. Like when was that switch for you? What was that aha moment?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  I think it developed over time when I understood what I was passionate about and what I enjoyed doing. When I was younger, I really, I loved fashion. And so a lot of the projects that I was involved in were based around fashion. I had, I designed collections with Nike for the things that I would wear for the other girls that were playing on tour as well. And that was, like I just, I loved the clothes and the textures and just the experience of working with the designers. And then that shifted into business. Like I found myself in meetings with, you know, decisions that were, you know, tougher, like that it made more impactful than maybe...

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Choosing a texture for a skirt. And I realized that, like, I appreciated that. I wanted to learn from them more. And as I sat in these meetings more and more, I just gained a new appreciation of people that were really good at what they did, and I wanted to learn from them. And maybe I could, one day, use it in my business. And then I had a shoulder surgery at 21-years-old, right after I won my third Grand Slam title. And I was away from the game for about a year. And that was a time when 21 is, for an athlete, and tennis players specifically, that's really like, I mean, kind of the peak of your career. That's when you should be. I had been playing amazing tennis, starting off the year, and five months later, found myself on an operation table,

• 7:31Speaker 02

  just not really giving all control, whereas I controlled my whole life, giving control to someone that's, you know, going to put my tendon back in place. And that was scary. And I think that's when I realized that tennis wouldn't be my whole life. And there's a lot of different avenues that I would want to explore.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 7:50Speaker 05

  My question to you is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to all of the budding entrepreneurs that are in this audience?

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Wow, a few. I think teamwork is extremely important. It's something that I've used as an athlete, and I've used in business. I think when you start a business, you are the sole, you know, you're the creator, and you have the ideas, and you're the one that pays most of the bills. But you don't know everything. And I think it takes a step down for someone to say, you know what, I'm not perfect in that area, or I don't know enough in that. I need to bring other people in. I want to learn from other people, and accept their knowledge. I spent a few days shadowing Adam Silver, who is the NBA commissioner. And I spent a few days just like,

• 8:43Speaker 02

  being in a room with him with, I mean, he is a leader. I mean, if there's a leader in an athlete's world, it's Adam Silver. And he constructed these meetings with a type of attitude that allowed everyone in the room to... Give ideas, brainstorm without feeling any pressure that this guy is their boss and is their leader. At the end of each meeting, he would give his few ideas and most likely he'd go back to the office and think to himself, "Okay, that wasn't that good." But he didn't, he wasn't pushy, he didn't put pressure on people, he allowed them to work together. That was very impressive.

• 9:21Speaker 06

  The question I have for Maria is I'm so impressed with you as an athlete, in your mindset. Watching you, you were like the prodigy for a long time as the young, you know, young athlete that came up. And when you were beating people, you were knocking them off, but you've kind of lasted that career and now you're the person that they wanted them beat. What has that done for you in the position mentally? And when you had that like effort to go get them because you were the underdog and you were the young girl on stage?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 06

  And to now being the person that, doesn't matter if they're ranked or known, if they beat Maria Sharapova, that's their knockdown.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  It's a very interesting shift and it's something I go quite deep in the book because I, I felt this so much. I mean, I, I won my first Grand Slam at a very young age, I was only 17 years old and I was not expected to win. I didn't expect it for myself, no one expected it from me. And immediately was put in a position, which I'm grateful for of course, but it brought so many things on the table that I didn't know what to do with. And one of the things I immediately felt was this, when I would go into a match following that victory, that the opponent that was playing me was playing much more than that particular round that we were in.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  They were playing for beating me, for getting everything that I had gotten along the way after that victory. And it was hard, it felt very isolating because it, I mean, you want to put yourself in, in your own group, in your own bubble, in your own league. I think that's, that's something that we, we want to aspire to, we want to get there. But it was a lonely feeling, like it felt like... You know, I had to, I had to go within myself and be like, but I still want to beat them. Like, I want to, I almost had to feel like I had to beat them even more. Like, that's, that's the mentality, because if, it's so, it's really hard. It's hard to face that as a teenager, and it was a reality check really fast.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  And I still, I mean, I faced that, you know, till this day. But I think that's a, that's a privilege. It's a good position to be in, it's where you want to be. If someone wants to beat you, that means you've done something to get there. Means you're doing something right. I mean, that's something that Billie Jean King always says, "Pressure's a privilege."

• 11:45Speaker 07

  Anyone who watches you knows your intense amount of focus. So, when you face critics, negative comments, etc., whether it's fans, players in the locker room, of that nature.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:59Speaker 07

  What's your best way of handling it? Do you focus that you just completely shut it out? Do you learn from it? Do you address it? Can you maybe explain a little bit, that we can all relate to?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've, I faced a lot of it ever since I was young. When I won Wimbledon, I remember a news outlet flying from Great Britain to my grandparents' home in the middle of nowhere. I have no clue how they found them. And were questioning my grandparents on, not only questioning, but criticizing my grandparents on how could you do this to your, you know, your grandchild, sending them to America when they're young, making them play tennis every single day? Trying to get this negativity out of them for comments that they could use in a news, in a media outlet. And from that point on, I realized that this was going to be a crazy ride.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Because that was, I mean, that's just weird. And I faced a lot. I've faced, um, I faced headlines, I faced tough critics, I faced negativity, I've faced envy as a woman. But I always go back to something that... I've always seen in my mother, and that is, you know, my mom was always in the shadows of my career. She wasn't into sports. She had nothing to do with it. And she dedicated her whole life just to be there for me, to be my mom. And she carried herself with this just elegance of not letting anyone

• 13:35Speaker 02

  control her life, tell her what to do. Tell if, you know, maybe her parents said she was crazy for allowing her daughter to go to America at a young age. But she did it with this class and elegance that I've always carried with me throughout my whole career. I think there's a very powerful, a powerful element in a woman when you're just able to step back and accept it and put your head up and say, you know what? I accept this today, and I'm gonna take action. And with my actions, I'm gonna change an opinion around. And I will also say, for every tough critic, there are hundreds and hundreds of people that are positive and have something amazing to say about you. But our mind just doesn't function that way.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Our mind always goes to the one person that just said that one word and that tough word, and we, we analyze it and we go, we, it's like a hamster wheel. It's in our mind, why would they say that? But we didn't mean that. It's hard, it's definitely hard. But I always think of my upbringing and I think of my parents. And it just grounds me. So that's, that's how I try to handle it. Thank you.

• 14:44Speaker 08

  So, I mean, you made it big at seventeen. You went big at seventeen. You have had a long and successful career. Last year was like a reset button for, for you, from you, basically, right? That you gotta prove yourself again.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:59Speaker 08

  So I guess that during those times, you were looking for motivation, you were looking for inspiration to get you up. So let's turn the tables and let's imagine that you're sitting on any of these seats. What would you like to hear from someone like you to pump you up, fire you up?

• 15:19Speaker 02

  I think... Firing you up, it takes time. I think realistically, it takes time. When you are down and you are going through a tough moment, you can have great people around you, you can have positive words and positive energy, and you can go dance and have a drink and feel good for a little bit. But then, then reality settles in and you go kind of back down again. And so I acknowledge that because there's no easy answer. Like, there's no, there's nothing someone will say to you that will just change everything around. It takes time, it takes people, it takes patience, it takes resiliency, and you have to go through it.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Like, there's no, there's no easy way around it. It's just, it's the way it is. Like, whether it was for me, whether it's, everyone in this room has faced those challenges in their own personal way. And you have to acknowledge it, you have to bring it to the surface. Sometimes we're in denial a little bit. It takes time to get that up to the surface. And that always makes the process a little bit easier personally for me. And writing, like, I, I love putting the tough days on paper. I don't necessarily love it at the moment, but I love getting it out of my system on paper. Not to people, but sometimes something that you do with your hand is very important. There's like, I always feel like there's a connection with your mind and your hand and having it, and then, and then the satisfaction

• 16:47Speaker 02

  of getting through that moment and looking back at that and seeing, "I faced that and I overcame it."

• 16:54Speaker 09

  I'm curious for you, as someone who clearly is like very open about your struggles and your pains, like, how do you always temper it in such a way that you can be a source of inspiration, be a source of hope for the people that are watching you, listening to you?

• 17:09Speaker 10

  So, that is a very complicated question. I will try to answer it in-

• 17:13Speaker 09

  Hey, take your time.

• 17:13Speaker 10

  -pieces.

• 17:18Speaker 10

  I wish we had all day. We have to start with a definition of what vulnerability is. And I do come across many people who say, "My vulnerability is weakness. I don't want people to see that I'm vulnerable." And I think that we have to look at who it is that we are sharing pieces of who we are with. Because you're not just going to be vulnerable with everyone around you. There are certain healthy boundaries that you need to build between you and other people. So you have to look at who are you opening up to? Who are you hoping to be seen by? Who are you hoping to be heard by? Instead of seeing your vulnerability as something that you want to hide away from everybody

• 18:02Speaker 10

  or give it to everybody, right? Because you will have people who won't honor your story. Like, I spoke today because I knew that everyone in here would honor my story. Everyone in here wants to listen to me. But the mistake that we tend to make, most people tend to make, is that they are vulnerable with the person who doesn't want them to be vulnerable with them. They're doing it in hopes that that person will open their eyes and say, "You do deserve to be loved because of everything that you've gone through" or "the struggles that you're going through." So we open up to the wrong people. So, once we shift who we need to be vulnerable with,

• 18:47Speaker 10

  then we start seeing vulnerability as a source of us uncovering ourselves and feeling whole with ourselves and with that person in front of us. Because, and I'm sure everybody could relate to this, when you talk to someone about a personal thing and you don't feel like they valued it, you're putting one more brick on that wall that you're building. You're not opening up more. So, the purpose of it is being heard and being seen, so it has to be the right people.

• 19:18Speaker 09

  So you're saying...

• 19:19Speaker 10

  Does that help?

• 19:19Speaker 09

  Yes, yes.

• 19:22Speaker 09

  So you're saying then be more focused on who it is that you're sharing that vulnerability with? So that it can be valuable to them.

• 19:31Speaker 10

  Do they have permission? Do they deserve? Instead of asking yourself, "Am I worthy of them listening to me?" Ask yourself, "Are they worthy of hearing my story?"

• 19:41Speaker 09

  It's fucking great. Shit.

• 19:45Speaker 09

  Wow. Total reframe for me, thank you.

• 19:48Speaker 10

  Thank you, Matt.

• 19:49Speaker 04

  I guess my question is, how can I support you?

• 19:54Speaker 10

  You just did.

• 19:57Speaker 10

  You just did. I tend to get very emotional when I talk about things like this. But I went through an experience where I was made to believe that a certain stage of my life never happened and that I made it up in my mind. And that was part of the abuse. So when I speak of my story, the most empowering thing for me is when someone says, "I believe you." That's it.

• 20:27Speaker 11

  I grew up in Israel. I can relate to you. You're from Lebanon. My story is about mental health and my journey. And my goal is to help others get out of their mental health through my journey. And I feel like as an Orthodox Jew, I get a lot of stigma. And I'm sure you can relate to that.

• 20:48Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 20:49Speaker 11

  We're very similar.

• 20:50Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 20:51Speaker 11

  I feel like a sister. So, but I'm so goal-oriented to break that stigma and not to hear the voices. But I do have a family. I do have a huge support network. But when those voices come and those bashing comes, what do we do to just isolate them and just keep focused and say, "We're on a path. I'm not going to let them stop me." Because they're strong voices.

• 21:17Speaker 10

  Yeah. Well, I would just like to begin by saying I really, really can relate to what you're saying. I've had to walk on a path where most of the people around me within my community or, you know, within my family, within my culture, within my religion, they would look at me and say, "Oh, you're looking at things that don't really matter. You know, it's all in your head, just shake it off." And...

• 21:47Speaker 10

  For a long time, again, with building homes inside of people, sometimes you build that home inside your culture, inside your religion, and you say, "If I don't fit that, if there's no room for me there, that means that I'm just not worthy as a human being." So you have to start, and I do this myself, you have to start thinking of, "What is the real goal here?" Of them telling me that I shouldn't take care of my mental health, right? What are they getting out of me? Not feeling like I've taken care of myself.

• 22:28Speaker 10

  Why is the focus on them and what they think of what I need? My focus should be on me and what I need to continue moving on in this life. Because at the end of the day, yes, you have a family, you have a community, but you are walking your own path, right? So when you get those comments, picture it like this. You have a home inside of you. And part of that home is self-value and self-worth. If someone points a comment at you, it's like somebody knocking at the door. Open the door, you see who it is. It's a negative comment that tells you something that you know is wrong. You don't welcome it in, you just let it leave.

• 23:12Speaker 10

  So it's about your perception of what they think of you and how you minimize it that will allow you to let go of that. And in terms of having like bigger initiatives for communities as a whole to get rid of the stigma, people have to share their stories. It was a big hit when I shared my story.

• 23:33Speaker 11

  I shared my story and I'm writing a book, but I'm getting a lot of, because my story is beautiful and it has a beautiful ending, but people are like, "Keep it to yourself."

• 23:43Speaker 10

  I shared my story, I did. I shared it and I got messages saying, from people in my community. You're looking for publicity. Right. You are, you asked for it. Right. You behaved in a way that makes what happened to you, something that you deserved happening to you. I got that, but I didn't care. They're not living my life. And, and for the 5% of, of messages or feedback that you get like that, you get 95% hidden stories saying, "I've been struggling with this for five years, and you just gave me a voice." So people need to start sharing their stories. Thank you, thank you.

• 24:27Speaker 12

  Salaam alaikum.

• 24:28Speaker 10

  Alaikum salaam.

• 24:30Speaker 12

  I think that the question that I have for you is while I'm on my healing journey, I know you talked about mind platter, nectar of pain, and now this, this other stitching with gold. Right? I feel like I'm stitching with gold. How do I create a boundary? Especially with the stigma of, "Oh, yo, these are your parents. You should, you know, allow them to do whatever it is, you know. It's okay, forgive them." Where I'm being very, very protective of my own time, my own integrity, my own energy, to make sure I honor my wife and my children moving... Oh, man. The mask, the mask.

• 25:06Speaker 10

  Let it out.

• 25:07Speaker 12

  Yeah. What would advice would you give me? As a man, as a human being, but as a father and a role model for other men and children out there? What advice would you give me to make sure that I honor and respect my mother and father for giving birth to me, but at the same time honoring who I am and the pain that I've gone through? As a child, a son, as a leader?

• 25:32Speaker 10

  Thank you for sharing that with me. That's... Thank you for sharing that. Are they asking you to be around you? Your family? Or are you thinking of how you should go to them and ask for, you know, a, a relationship? Or... Or is it just kind of up in the air?

• 25:53Speaker 12

  I kinda went out of my way this year to forgive them. Like, it was a long process, it was a four-year process for me. And it was my father, I've forgiven him, my mother, I've forgiven her. But now the question is...

• 26:06Speaker 10

  Rebuilding the relationship?

• 26:08Speaker 12

  Rebuilding the relationship, but making sure... Like, I didn't, I never received an apology, just like you.

• 26:13Speaker 10

  Uh, yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 12

  Yeah, so it's like, I wanna make sure that those toxic behaviors, those manipulative patterns, they don't show up, and I wanna be able to take a stand, and that's where the boundary comes in. You know, 'cause I don't wanna just continue the relationship because you're mom and dad, and I want that validation.

• 26:27Speaker 10

  Absolutely.

• 26:27Speaker 12

  You see what I'm saying?

• 26:28Speaker 10

  Yeah, I agree with that. So, what I would do is, um, once you restart your relationship with them, if you choose to, 'cause that's totally up to you, trusting them again is definitely a risk. It's a risk, and you don't know what you're gonna get out of it. But you have to be very mindful and very aware of what you will accept and what you won't accept. Forgiveness is a very tricky topic, because to forgive someone, we usually think that forgiving them means that what they did was okay. That we're saying, we're letting go, "Yeah, you know what happened in the past, it was okay." That's not what forgiveness is. Forgiveness is saying, "What happened was horrible, you shouldn't have done it, but

• 27:13Speaker 10

  I'm no longer going to allow the pain that you caused me to affect who I am right now. I'm forgiving you for me, not for you, you have to deal with what you've done." Right? So if you think of you forgiving them that way, then that keeps you mindful of the fact that those things might come up. And if they do, you're gonna have to draw red lines again. But if you go into it while you're mindful... Fully alert that something like that might happen and might cause some triggers for you. The impact will be much less because you've already kind of expected or anticipated it. But send me an email

• 27:58Speaker 10

  because I would like to give you my full thoughts on this.

• 28:02Speaker 12

  Oh, you got it.

• 28:02Speaker 10

  Definitely, yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 12

  I appreciate you immensely. Thank you for being... I just want to acknowledge you for just a moment. As a Muslim woman, you know, I grew up in the Middle East. I was born in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. So, and I have very religious parents. My father is, my mom, she was a Buddhist. So like, and I had that struggle. But for you, as a woman, who still owns her faith proudly, immense gratitude and appreciation for showing up for like my younger sisters. I'm so proud of you. Like, I'm so honored. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

• 28:40Esther Perel?

  The point, I can't remember at all how this came up. What is very clear is that sexlessness, infidelity, polyamory, a complete new relationship between father and child, gender fluidity. All these are topics that are entering the office of a couples therapist like they never have before. And what needs to happen is an open conversation about it. Not what you do with it, but the ability to have a conversation about this. Virginity used to be the big line fifty, sixty years ago. Monogamy is the discussion of the day. But we need to define what we mean by this. And so, part of what we were discussing is

• 29:24Esther Perel?

  what happens with boundaries today? The boundaries are changing all along. When you come a sexual nomad to a relationship in which you then make a commitment, exclusivity means something very different. What does exclusivity mean? It means that I'm finally willing to relinquish my freedom for you, my dear, for whom I will delete my apps.

• 29:51Esther Perel?

  We have to redefine all the terms. We're using the same words and they mean completely new realities. So too on the polyamory front. So that's kind of where this was. Yeah, next.

• 30:03Speaker 14

  There was a girl earlier who was talking about being the strong, powerful woman and that's hard to be that in a relationship. But I don't have an asshole guy. I have the most amazing guy in the world who makes me feel like even more of a success than I know I am on paper. He's not that on paper. Society tells me that I need somebody like that, but he fits me emotionally. What's your thought?

• 30:36Esther Perel?

  Let me, I'm gonna answer you with something that I talk about not often. Cindy, I don't think I've ever talked about it like that on stage, but I'm so, I just feel so bad about your question and about the pressure.

• 30:53Speaker 14

  I feel so under pressure all the time.

• 30:55Esther Perel?

  The pressure, you know, there are, you know, it's like this notion that if you, that you have to choose between being powerful and, or successful and, and, and what do you say is that you need to have a partner who is the same?

• 31:11Speaker 14

  Yes.

• 31:12Esther Perel?

  Because the word loser doesn't exist in the feminine.

• 31:16Esther Perel?

  And the word emasculated, by the way, doesn't exist in the feminine either. Those are curses for men.

• 31:24Esther Perel?

  You understand?

• 31:28Esther Perel?

  There is lots of strength and there is, today, if we're going to really talk about gender equality, it is not about 50/50 or these kind of things. It is really about letting the people do that which they are most competent doing.

• 31:46Esther Perel?

  Si tu es meilleur à braver le monde à l'extérieur, à faire le bien, à faire les taxes, Dieu sait quoi d'autre. Même le car, le jardin, tout ça. Tu sais, alors, va-y, tant que tu as, à l'autre côté, quelqu'un qui te rappelle, tu sais, quelqu'un qui prend cette face féminine pour toi, quelqu'un qui te regarde comme ça, peu importe le nombre de travail et de pouvoir que tu aies eu dans le monde. C'est la complémentarité, et les relations s'agîtent de la complémentarité. Mais la complémentarité dans les couples straight est basée sur le genre et pas sur ce que le genre fait le mieux.

• 32:30Esther Perel?

  Merci.

• 32:33Esther Perel?

  Donc, ce que je voulais dire à vous, je suis la première victime de la famille depuis 35 ans que je suis mariée à ce même homme. Nous avons deux fils qui ont vu tout ça. Mais mon mari fait du travail des droits humains, et c'est du travail glorieux. Mais ce n'est pas du travail qui emmène les enfants à l'école. Et ça, tu sais, je l'admire chaque minute. Tu sais, il y a assez de guerres et de désastres qui se passent pour qu'il ait travaillé jusqu'à ce qu'il meure, tu sais. Mais peut-être parce que j'ai une vision différente de ça. Je ne l'ai jamais vu comme ça, ça me prend l'homme féminin. Je pensais juste, tu sais, j'ai cette force, je me suis dit que je...

• 33:16Esther Perel?

  Tu sais, je suis heureuse ou quelque chose comme ça, peu importe. Mais il contribue de tellement d'autres façons. Et venir ici et lui dire que je suis fière de vous, parce que ce livre est finalement sorti, il y a trois ans dans le processus. Et je pense que je suis si soutenue par un homme fort, parce qu'un homme fort est un homme qui ne fait pas l'intimidation d'une femme forte.

• 33:45Speaker 15

  My question to you because I feel like I am the epitome of dating right now in America and in my age group.

• 33:52Speaker 15

  I, you know, I want to date. I'm one of those people that said, "Yeah, I think I want to be in a relationship." But you have like these different flavors of yourself, right? You have happy Jay, you have sad Jay, you have like need to be cuddled Jay, need to leave me alone Jay, you have like horny Jay, whatever. And my partner has all those same flavors too. And you can have like the perfect mix, it seems, for weeks or months. And then all of a sudden like you clash because you're in the wrong flavor for each other at that point in time. And it's like, "Let's start swiping again."

• 34:19Esther Perel?

  Okay.

• 34:22Speaker 15

  Thank you, thank you.

• 34:29Esther Perel?

  Finish your question, just so I'm not sure I'm not going off in the wrong track.

• 34:36Speaker 16

  He's scared.

• 34:37Speaker 15

  I'm just, the question.

• 34:39Esther Perel?

  So I'm misattuned and I start to think about my swiping hand again and...

• 34:45Speaker 15

  Yes, so I'm asking, "What's your advice to me? What should my expectations be? Where should my level of patience be? Like, how do you fix me?"

• 34:54Esther Perel?

  So...

• 35:00Esther Perel?

  Next Wednesday, 9 a.m.

• 35:05Esther Perel?

  Look, relationships is this dance. Connection, disconnection, repair.

• 35:15Esther Perel?

  That's the cycle. Attunement, misattunement, recalibration. However you want to name this, it's this rhythm. It's a rhythm. So first of all, when you think, when you tell me the first sentence, you know, when we are perfectly in sync, I'm like, "Oh, get the fuck, we're perfect, out of there." It's just like, it's crippling. Because the minute you're not perfect, you get restless. And the minute you get restless, your fingers start to twitch. And then, and, and, and it just takes you to a whole other place. Rather than maybe you're restless and you actually turn to your partner and you say, "You know what, I'm restless. My fingers would like to twitch. Would you like to sign on too, so maybe I can, I can swipe you?"

• 36:00Esther Perel?

  You know?

• 36:03Esther Perel?

  In case you choose monogamy, that's actually an interesting way to go about it. You know, it's like, bring this restlessness, instead of always siphoning it out. And it's like, bring it. You know, in the same way that you say I'm your oxygen tank, have her be your oxygen tank. Turn to her, rather than away from her, when you experience discontent, restlessness, whatever you call that. So, that's the first thing. You know, people these days... The problem with swiping or social in general is that you can curate all kinds of fantastical and wishful lives online. You can have a thousand friends online, but that doesn't mean you know who's gonna feed your cat.

• 36:47Esther Perel?

  You know? I think what you want, first of all, is to accept it's very difficult to transition from the kind of sexual nomadism and the kind of multiple options to now just stay here and to stay put. And it takes a while to know what to do when suddenly you don't feel that she's interested in you in the same way, or that she's not as turned on in the same way, or all the changes that take place. And to actually bring this into the conversation, which makes for a very interesting exchange when you don't just go into rules and regulations and ultimatums. To me, that's when you start to create real muscle in a relationship. If you have a relationship

• 37:31Esther Perel?

  that allows for the swiping and for the going elsewhere, that's your negotiation. The problem in most straight couples is that the negotiation... This is back to the other question as well. The negotiation about monogamy is just about five words. "I catch you, you're dead." That's about as much as people talk about. And that's when I decide... I realized that after a crisis, people actually really get in there and start to talk about the real stuff. So, what happens to you? Do you get lonely? ¿Tú te sientes insignificante? ¿Tú te sientes como: "No debería tener que exigir, no debería tener que esperar, no debería tener que esperar porque soy un gran tipo y hago lo que hace todo el mundo

• 38:14Esther Perel?

  y me acabo de casa y estoy aquí y espero por ella y ella ni siquiera está en mi cama", y todo eso. ¿Qué...? Eso puede no ser tu sentido, pero como: ¿Cuál es tu sentido de la dignidad? Pero en el sentido bueno del word. ¿Qué sientes que mereces? Porque, ya sabes, hay muchas personas aquí que dicen: "¿Quién eres y qué te mereces?" Pero hay muchas personas que dicen exactamente eso con un tono diferente: "¿Quién eres y qué te mereces?" Ya sabes, así que tú te sientes como: una vez que esa persona estaba ahí por ti todo el tiempo y ahora no están tan disponibles e ineficientes y luego empiezas a sentir como que tu autoestima está seca y tu sentido de importancia está rociado. Mi sugerencia para si quieres una relación con musgo

• 38:59Esther Perel?

  es que vuelvas a allí y lo deshaces y peleas y nunca pienses que una buena relación no tiene argumentos. En el contrario, creas algo que se llama intimidad severa.

• 39:17Speaker 17

  ¿Qué consejo le darías a alguien que recientemente pasó un divorcio pero está constantemente en camino y quiere reestablecer una conexión significativa con su partner anterior?

• 39:31Esther Perel?

  Oh, esa es una pregunta hermosa. Porque, quiero decir, ambos de ustedes están hablando también de un divorcio. Okey, escucha, no voy a hacer justicia a ninguno de estos porque quiero respetar su tiempo. Así que va así. Una de las cosas...

• 39:47Esther Perel?

  Y tal vez... Una de las cosas que creo que necesitamos traer de vuelta es la arte de escribirle una carta, no los textos.

• 40:01Esther Perel?

  We didn't even talk about technology and about texting and ghosting and simmering and icing and all of the stuff that people are doing with relationships and technology. I think when you have a new relationship, imagine that instead of texting, which is still super nice, you write a handwritten letter. Do any of you, I don't even know how old you are, but do any of you remember going to a mailbox and seeing an envelope that had a recognizable hand letter? This is the direct road to somebody's heart. You want to reconnect with your ex, write her a handwritten letter. Thank you.

• 40:41Speaker 16

  Mel, that podcast with you and Louis, that was like my favorite podcast I heard in life. It changed everything this past year. I'm also come from a legal background. I quit my large law firm job last month.

• 40:53Mel Robbins?

  Congratulations.

• 40:54Speaker 16

  Thank you.

• 40:55Mel Robbins?

  You're free!

• 40:56Speaker 16

  I am. And I'm moving overseas, took the leap, going to Vietnam to chase a new and better opportunity. My question is, I'm very excited about this opportunity, I still have this nagging feeling of an imposter syndrome, like that I oversell my M&A experience.

• 41:13Mel Robbins?

  Good, good. Listen, imposter syndrome is an amazing thing, because it's normal when you're doing something new. Why the hell would you feel confident if you're doing something for the first time? And so, if you don't feel imposter syndrome in some area of your life, which is that feeling that you A, either don't deserve the success, or that people are going to find out you have no clue what you're doing, you are not growing. You're not growing. And so, I want you to embrace the fact that you feel outside your comfort zone. Feeling that way is normal, letting it stop you is a choice. And so, learn to actually ride the wave and understand that the only way that imposter

• 41:56Mel Robbins?

  syndrome goes away, and you can Google this research, it's about the confidence competency loop. Confidence competency loop. All the research around confidence, which disappears imposter syndrome, is that it starts with being willing to try, to learn new skills, to see yourself growing, and then once you gain the competency, all the resistance and insecurity disappears. So, great, congratulations that you have imposter syndrome.

• 42:25Mel Robbins?

  So, yes, embrace imposter syndrome. Being able to actually step into it is a sign of greatness. When your thoughts drift here, though, 5-4-3-2-1, and I want you to, your anchor thought should be something around how excited you are for this next adventure, okay?

• 42:45Speaker 19

  The question is, does inspiration build action and courage?

• 42:50Mel Robbins?

  I think that inspiration comes after the action. It's wonderful if you've been blessed as a human being to have a positive mindset and a healthy dose of motivation. If you're like the rest of us, mostly you're going to be afraid of all the things you need to do. You're going to feel the resistance. And so I think it is so important that you drill it into your head, that it all begins with action. Inspiration comes when you see yourself getting out of bed. When you see yourself going for a run, despite how tired you are. When you see yourself saying no, because they didn't offer you the deal that you wanted. You always have leverage in life, because you can always say no. Negotiate contracts, never negotiate who you are.

• 43:36Mel Robbins?

  And so I want you to understand that it starts with action. And it's a mistake for most of us to wait around until we feel like it, because you may never feel like it. Got it?

• 43:48Speaker 19

  Thank you.

• 43:48Mel Robbins?

  You're welcome.

• 43:50Speaker 20

  My question to you is, when you, 5-4-3-2-1, action. So when it comes to that go, not like the loop of anxiety or such,

• 44:01Speaker 20

  my wonder is about, because I think that what comes after the one, for me, would be more intuitive. And so many studies show that intuition isn't necessarily the smartest thing to act on when you're in a situation that requires strategy.

• 44:15Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 44:16Speaker 20

  So I'm interested in using this tool, but in a circumstance, well, in multiple circumstances in my life.

• 44:21Mel Robbins?

  Give me a particular example, so that I can go with you.

• 44:23Speaker 20

  Okay, I'll get vulnerable and very specific here.

• 44:25Mel Robbins?

  Okay, good.

• 44:25Speaker 20

  Okay, so I have a son and a very contentious relationship with my ex-partner.

• 44:31Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 44:32Speaker 20

  So I'm very much heart-centered. Everyone's good, everyone's love. He's very much, "I want to litigate the shit out of you and crush you" kind of personality, okay? So we chose each other, this is our situation.

• 44:44Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 44:45Speaker 20

  So...

• 44:46Mel Robbins?

  What do you want to change about how you're being? Because we can't change him.

• 44:49Speaker 20

  Yes, I want to specifically not feel like I'm constantly like being attacked. Like, I feel like I'm constantly under attack in every single decision I'm making in my life right now.

• 45:01Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 45:01Speaker 20

  I have to see in the eyes of a judge. Like, will the judge take my son away from me if I make that decision for my life? Does this mean that I'm going to get, you know, pummeled with court papers tomorrow if I post...

• 45:13Mel Robbins?

  Is it tomorrow? Is that your first name?

• 45:14Speaker 20

  Tomorrow.

• 45:15Mel Robbins?

  Okay, so let me just broaden out the question. So basically, she's stuck in a loop of feeling so uncertain that it's making it paralyzing to make any decision. And so, first of all, given that divorce and custody is a legal construct...

• 45:30Speaker 20

  Yes, exactly.

• 45:30Mel Robbins?

  You have to make sure that you're not making... Like, you need to talk to an expert about particular decisions you're making so that it doesn't impact that. That's one thing. What you're dealing with is the result of being in a relationship where you were probably emotionally abused for years.

• 45:47Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 45:47Mel Robbins?

  And it's become a habit to shrink.

• 45:49Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 45:50Mel Robbins?

  It's become a habit to feel attacked. It's become a habit to hide.

• 45:55Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 45:55Mel Robbins?

  And so where you want to really go to work, and this is your lesson from this chapter of your life, is to find your voice. And so when you start to feel yourself shrinking, or start to go down the mental habit of now second-guessing your own heart-centered decisions because you've been taught to, this is where you use the five-second rule to 5-4-3-2-1, and your anchor thought needs to be, come up with a vision, a very specific one, of where you were when you felt you're most free and empowered as a woman. And I want you to say to yourself, "I'm so excited to be that, to feel that way again." Because this is going to take a while.

• 46:40Mel Robbins?

  I would have to interrupt my thoughts 137 times a day when I first started attacking anxiety, because it was so much a habit. Same is going to be true with you. And so do not get discouraged when you see it again, and you see yourself shrink again, and you see yourself shrink again. Every time you see this stuff, you guys, it's a huge moment of power. You just woke up. You have a choice. Are you gonna let that old behavior pull you in this way, or are you gonna 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, push yourself to be greater? That's the choice that you get to make every single day. You got it?

• 47:15Speaker 20

  Yes, may I request just a clarification?

• 47:17Mel Robbins?

  Sure.

• 47:18Speaker 20

  Okay, so you're saying, within the specific context of my scenario, this for me really is more about my mental and emotional-

• 47:26Mel Robbins?

  Oh, it's a thousand percent. A thousand percent.

• 47:29Speaker 20

  And you're saying with my initial question to you, that I need to just put that to my attorneys, trust the attorneys, allow the process to go, and I just need to deal with this game up here?

• 47:42Mel Robbins?

  And by the way-

• 47:43Speaker 20

  Because, yes, you do.

• 47:44Mel Robbins?

  And here's the other thing. Because this is a legal situation, like, you know, we look at divorce and custody and these sorts of things as emotional. It's actually a legal construct. You're untangling and unpacking a marriage. If you have an unhealthy relationship with a person in your life, whether it's your ex or your boss, you have no business, you cannot trust yourself, talking about anything other than logistics.

• 48:09Speaker 20

  Exactly.

• 48:10Mel Robbins?

  Got it?

• 48:11Speaker 20

  Because that's where I've been, but like, my desire was to hop out of the chair and be like, "Let me go call him, what time is it in the UK?"

• 48:17Mel Robbins?

  No.

• 48:18Speaker 20

  Like, "Let's just all work this out."

• 48:19Mel Robbins?

  No.

• 48:20Speaker 20

  That's why my question was about that initial-

• 48:22Mel Robbins?

  No, don't take the bait. Quick story, can I tell a quick story? So my mother is one of my favorite people in the world. I grew up in western Michigan, I love, love, love, love, love her. We have this thing where we, when we go on vacation and see each other, when I'm with my family, we last about three or four days before there's like this massive explosion. And then it's all, you know, rainbows and butterflies again. But it's painful explosion. So I say to my brother, "Derek, why do you never fight with mom?" And he looked at me, this was something he told me four months ago. Mel, I don't take the bait.

• 49:01Mel Robbins?

  When mom starts getting irritated and angry about stuff, you immediately, it's like she's fishing for you. And you're like, "I'm in." And so, if you can train yourself to not take the bait that you took for years, I use the five-second rule right now in my life to really watch my tone with my family and with the people I work with. And so you could use this to really catch yourself with the habit of, "Ooh, ooh, jump in, fix it. Ooh, jump in and be lovely. Ooh, jump in and like-love everybody. Ooh, jump in, make it okay."

• 49:38Speaker 20

  That's exactly what it is, because it's about controlling the narrative, so everyone's good and happy.

• 49:43Mel Robbins?

  No, you can't control any narrative but this one. And this is the most important one, anyway, because you live with that person.

• 49:52Speaker 20

  Phenomenal, thank you.

• 49:54Mel Robbins?

  You're welcome.

• 49:54Speaker 21

  Final question. My question is, you have obviously become a much more confident woman.

• 50:02Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 50:02Speaker 21

  And you had so much anxiety before, that's how you describe yourself. So my question is, since you've been using this and practicing it a lot, is it to the point where that's just how you crush everything? Or are there still some things that you feel that anxiety over? And if so, what are they?

• 50:22Mel Robbins?

  Every time I do something new, imposter syndrome. So we're, you know, I'm inspired by Lewis to do more events. I'm cutting my speaking business in half because I just can't handle the road anymore. 121 speeches last year. It was great in the beginning after 21 years of marriage because it felt like we were dating again. But then, you know, it gets a little old. And so, all these new things that I'm doing, of course, there's a level of anxiety. But what's so freaking amazing is when you get control of your thinking patterns and you actually have a breakthrough and realize you can choose what you think about. You won't torture yourself as much. You won't make things as hard. So yeah, I feel all that stuff. I should.

• 51:05Mel Robbins?

  We're in the middle of negotiating some crazy shit right now. And it may not happen. It may not happen. But I have the ability to let anxiety come and then just smash it down and regain control of what I'm doing right now. So that I can be the smartest about what I want, so that I can align what I'm about to do in terms of a decision with my values. And so that I don't let emotion, and particularly for women, there is a lot of bias in business. And if you get handed a crap deal, you'll be offended. And if you get offended in a business deal, you will not be a shark as a negotiator. And so, yes, I feel anxiety. I just know how to deal with it. I don't get scared of it.

• 51:50Speaker 21

  Feeling it is normal.

• 51:52Mel Robbins?

  Letting it stop you is a choice. Excellent. Thank you.

• 51:55Speaker 21

  Thank you.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed this interview series with some inspirational women from all walks of life. We've got authors, we've got speakers, we've got world-class champions all in this interview. And if you enjoyed it, make sure to share with your friends. LewisHowes.com/913. It's all about redefining greatness with these powerful individuals who are making an impact around the world and who've also gone through some challenges in their life and talk about how they've overcome them. Again, LewisHowes.com/913. And you have an opportunity to make an impact on your friend's life. Your learning today has helped you. Now, I want you to go apply what you learned into your life and start to see the results that you're creating.

• 52:41Lewis Howes?

  But in order to inspire someone else to help them, you've got to share this content. So send a text to one friend that you think might be inspired by these ladies' stories and share it because you can make an impact and a difference and change someone's life today by doing so. Just send it to LewisHowes.com/913. I love this quote by Maya Angelou, who said, "All great achievements require time." Things take time, but you also don't want to be limited by time. You can create a lot in a short amount of time, but also empires and big dreams are going to take time. Continue to surround yourself with a team of people who can support you in your dreams. Continue to surround yourself with the information you need to support you with your dreams.

• 53:26Lewis Howes?

  And continue to take care of your health and your body. So you have the energy to pursue those dreams. You matter, you worth it, I love you very much. And thank you so much for being here. You know what time it is, it's time to go out there and do something great.