991 Live Longer and Hack Your Health w/Dr. Steven Gundry

“We missed the fact that there was this symbiotic, sentient being that was not only living within us, but was directing us.”Lewis sits down with a School of Greatness icon, health and nutrition expert Dr. Steven Gundry, to discuss the obscure foods that reverse the aging process, the dangers of over-the-counter medicine, and the best ways to protect yourself against viruses, including COVID-19. The Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 991 with New York Times bestselling author Dr. Steven Gundry. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  Gandhi said, "It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver." And an Arabian proverb goes like this, "He who has health has hope, and he who has hope has everything." I'm so excited to bring you one of my all time favorite guests and a School of Greatness fan favorite, Dr. Steven Gundry. And in case this is your first time catching an interview with Dr. Gundry, he began his career as a groundbreaking cardiac surgeon, before becoming a health researcher with a very clear mission to dramatically improve human health, happiness, and longevity through a unique vision of diet and nutrition.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  And we've talked before about the healthy foods that are killing you, but this conversation went to a whole nother level. And in this episode, we talk about the correct balance between eating nutrient-rich foods and taking supplements. Why the problem with meat isn't what you expect, what you can do naturally to better protect ourselves against COVID-19, why over the counter medicines are so dangerous for your gut, what he shared with me here blew me away, and a unique study that suggests Parmesan cheese of all things might help extend your life. Just to note that a lot of his research bucks conventional wisdom. And I'm obviously not a medical doctor, so I can't endorse any specific claims.

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  But I'm very excited to bring you another mind-expanding interview with Dr. Steven Gundry about these topics, as I've tried a lot of the stuff in the past with him, and a lot of it has improved my overall health. But first, I'd love for you to spend just two minutes with me to check out a couple really cool sponsors, as their support is what allows me to bring you great content like this. You're one of our most popular guests.

• 2:21Steven Gundry?

  Oh, my gosh, no.

• 2:23Lewis Howes?

  You have so much great information, yet every time we come out with an episode, there's always some controversy. There's always a few people that are questioning your research that are thinking, well, what about this and what about this? We get 90% amazing comments, the people that are like, yes, I love his information. 10% question it. Why do you think people like to question or poo poo on a few of your research or topics or books? Why do you think that is?

• 2:52Steven Gundry?

  You know, people, you know, I'm, I guess, an irritant to established thoughts. And, you know, I think people see me as a challenge to their thinking.

• 3:08Lewis Howes?

  What they've always known.

• 3:08Steven Gundry?

  Yeah. And, you know, most of what I espouse now, I didn't believe any of this until a little over 20 years ago.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  Right. You personally, too?

• 3:19Steven Gundry?

  Me personally.

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:20Steven Gundry?

  I mean, for instance, I, I thought supplements made expensive urine. I firmly believed that. I told my patients that. And then, you know, I saw what happened to Big Ed all these years ago, and I said, huh, maybe, maybe I should look into this. So I started playing with myself with supplements. And then when I, you know, started 20 years ago, this restorative medicine practice, I approached it as a research project, because I've been a researcher all my life. And so I'd tell patients, look, you know, go to Costco, go to Trader Joe's, there wasn't an Amazon back then, go to a health food store, and I want you to buy grape seed extract,

• 4:00Steven Gundry?

  or I want you to buy fish oil, or I want you to buy magnesium, and I want you to buy methylfolate, and I want you to buy methyl B12. And let's see what happens on your blood work, and let's see what happens to you. And eventually, you know, I got so good, you'd see the results. And then they'd come back in three months, and one of these wouldn't be where it was. And I said,

• 4:29Steven Gundry?

  You're not taking such and such. Oh, yes, I am. Well, no, you're not. And he said, how do you know? I said, well, because, you know, here it is on your blood work. And we've even published results of looking at people's vascular flexibility, how their blood vessels expand and contract, which in longevity, you are only as young as your blood vessels are flexible. And so there's this cool machine.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  Is the telomere connected to blood?

• 4:59Steven Gundry?

  No.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  It's different, right?

• 5:00Steven Gundry?

  So telomeres are the ends of chromosomes. They're the cap on chromosomes.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 5:06Steven Gundry?

  And if you like the telomere theory of aging, which is just one of the theories of aging, then you want long telomeres. And for instance, getting back to a supplement, it turns out that people with the highest vitamin D levels in their blood have the longest telomeres.

• 5:26Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 5:26Steven Gundry?

  Really?

• 5:27Lewis Howes?

  So more vitamin D equals longer telomeres.

• 5:29Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  Which equals longer life.

• 5:31Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 5:32Lewis Howes?

  Hypothetically.

• 5:32Steven Gundry?

  Longer health span.

• 5:34Lewis Howes?

  Health span.

• 5:35Steven Gundry?

  Yeah. So, you know, the longer you live, living well is kind of how you win the game.

• 5:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Steven Gundry?

  Right?

• 5:43Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting, my girlfriend just sent me a clip. She's going through health nutrition school right now for herself because she wants to learn about everything she's putting in her body, workout, nutrition, lifestyle. And she just sent me a clip of Dan from the Blue Zones talking about Blue Zones. And I just watched a short Netflix series last week where they went to Sardinia, I think it is. And they did the research on the Blue Zone in Sardinia. And from my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, most of the people in the Blue Zone, in Sardinia at least, don't take supplements.

• 6:17Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 6:18Lewis Howes?

  They just walk up with the hills every day. They spend time with their loved ones. They go to church. They are part of the community. They eat more carbs, I think it was, than protein, I believe. And they just have a rich lifestyle, right? So.

• 6:35Lewis Howes?

  But do most people don't have that kind of environment? So you're saying we need to have supplements to create more of that environment?

• 6:41Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so that's actually a really good segue. It turns out that if you look at hunter-gatherers, at least that we can examine, they eat about 200 different plant species every year on a rotating basis. And they're eating the animals that were eating those plant species as well. And so what I tell anyone who will listen is, if you think that you can eat 200 different plant species, all grown organically and eight feet of lone soil, then I'll put in with you that you probably don't need any supplementation. But none of us do that.

• 7:24Steven Gundry?

  And in fact, if you look at even avid organic eaters, most of us have these, maybe 20 go-to foods that we eat on a rotating basis.

• 7:36Lewis Howes?

  I have like five, maybe.

• 7:37Steven Gundry?

  Well, I'm glad you said that.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  I eat chicken, I eat broccoli and sweet potato pretty much all day.

• 7:42Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so it turns out, when I was first doing this, it turns out that most people have five go-to meals per week that they repeat over and over and over again. And they just...

• 7:57Lewis Howes?

  How, is that bad for us or is that good for us? I throw in mushrooms in there, I throw in onions, you know, all this stuff you tell me to do.

• 8:04Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, I think it depends. But I think, again, if you live in a blue zone, and you know, I'm the only nutritionist who ever spent his career in a blue zone.

• 8:15Lewis Howes?

  There's seven blue zones?

• 8:16Steven Gundry?

  It depends on who wants to argue about them with Dan and me. I mean, there were blue zones discovered since he wrote his book, like the Achiroles and...

• 8:28Lewis Howes?

  But you lived, you practiced in a blue zone doing 10,000 heart surgeries, and you told everyone not to do supplements. You weren't prescribing these other blue zone methodologies. You were practicing traditional medicine.

• 8:43Steven Gundry?

  Correct, because, you know...

• 8:47Steven Gundry?

  You, you know, thank goodness there's coronary bypass surgery to, you know, fix you up.

• 8:54Lewis Howes?

  Fix you up, yeah. Fix you up. Don't worry about what you eat. Just fix the heart this way and then you're, you're good.

• 8:59Steven Gundry?

  You're good, but, and I'll see you in five years when you clog these guys up.

• 9:03Lewis Howes?

  And you need another check-in, or you need this medicine, or whatever.

• 9:05Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, and, you know, and I got very good and very famous for doing reoperations over and over again on people. In fact, the, the most reoperations I ever did was ninth time in.

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  Nine times on one person?

• 9:21Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, well, I was the ninth one in to their heart.

• 9:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you were the ninth one, person in. They'd done eight other surgeries before you.

• 9:29Steven Gundry?

  Somewhere else.

• 9:29Lewis Howes?

  On the heart.

• 9:30Steven Gundry?

  On the heart.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  Holy, how are they still alive?

• 9:33Steven Gundry?

  Um, well.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  And how do you survive through that much trauma?

• 9:37Steven Gundry?

  It's, we, you know, your body really, you know, Hippocrates used to say that all of us have this green life force energy, that translated from the Greek, which sounds very Californian.

• 9:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it does.

• 9:52Steven Gundry?

  But it's, it's true. The more I've kind of witnessed this, you, any creature has this innate desire to do well, to have perfect health. But Hippocrates used to say, and I've written this in my books, that Hippocrates says there are external forces that keep this green life force energy from, you know, blooming. And the doctor's supposed to be a detective and find out what are these external forces and remove them, teach the patient how to remove them, and then this, the patient will take care of himself. It'll, it'll bloom.

• 10:34Steven Gundry?

  And the guy was right about so many things, and he's right. So, for, for instance, all I do is do detective work, is find out, okay, why, you know, why have these things happened to you? And let's remove these and let's see what happens.

• 10:53Steven Gundry?

  Like, like just this morning.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes, tell me.

• 10:56Steven Gundry?

  Just this morning. Um, I put out an Instagram a couple of days ago about some really cool millet pasta that is now available. And it's really good, and millet doesn't have any lectins.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  It's millet, it's not a grain, is it?

• 11:14Steven Gundry?

  Millet is a grain, but there are only two grains that don't have hulls and don't have lectins. Millet and sorghum.

• 11:20Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 11:21Steven Gundry?

  And...

• 11:22Lewis Howes?

  So it's better for you?

• 11:23Steven Gundry?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:24Lewis Howes?

  Because it doesn't have lectins?

• 11:25Steven Gundry?

  So it doesn't have lectins, so...

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  Whereas rice has lectins, is that right?

• 11:28Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, all of rice has a lectin.

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 11:30Steven Gundry?

  Wheat has lectins. And so, somebody writes in and says, "Well, you know, you don't know what you're talking about because there aren't any lectins in pasta because you cook it and the lectins are gone." And whole wheat pasta doesn't have any lectins, and because you cook it. And I'm going, "Well, sorry, uh, but gluten happens to be a lectin. Sorry about that, it is." And guess what? Pasta, you know, wheat pasta has gluten. And you can't break gluten down with heat. Sorry about that. And in regards to your whole wheat pasta, the hull has wheat germ of gluten, which is another really nasty lectin.

• 12:14Steven Gundry?

  And, not to go down this trail, but it attaches to a sugar molecule on the lining of our blood vessels called N5AC. And, we can get into N5AC. And it sticks there like a splinter. And your immune system, your white blood cells, attack it. And then cholesterol slaps onto it. And, so, you lift weights, right?

• 12:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Steven Gundry?

  So if you're lifting weights, uh, you build calluses around a ring.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:49Steven Gundry?

  Right?

• 12:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Steven Gundry?

  Those calluses are to protect you from that constant trauma.

• 12:55Lewis Howes?

  From ripping off your skin.

• 12:56Steven Gundry?

  And, and one of the things that is interesting is, these plaques in arteries are actually calluses from irritation. And one of the best ways to irritate the inside of your arteries is to eat whole wheat pasta.

• 13:11Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:12Steven Gundry?

  And, so, that's a round way of saying...

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  But in Loma Linda, in Sardinia and other blue zones, at least from what I understand, they eat rice, they eat pasta, right?

• 13:24Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, well, yeah, so Sardinia actually uses a bread that's kind of half wheat and half buckwheat.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  It's like less gluten or something, or is it?

• 13:33Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, less gluten. But Sardinia has the highest incidence of autoimmune disease of all of Europe.

• 13:40Lewis Howes?

  So they live a long life in spite of eating gluten?

• 13:44Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 13:45Lewis Howes?

  It's for the other factors of lifestyle, of community, of exercise that keeps them living a longer life?

• 13:52Steven Gundry?

  Right. Plus, they're not taking antibiotics at every turn. They're not taking ibuprofen for pain that blows holes in your gut wall. They're not, they're getting up with the sun, they're going to bed with the sun. So there's lots of factors. They drink, Sardinia uses a liter of olive oil per week. They're one of the blue zones that do that.

• 14:19Lewis Howes?

  Which is something you believe in.

• 14:20Steven Gundry?

  Which, yeah, which really makes up for a lot of, a lot of mischief. And we're, with each passing year, we're figuring out, okay, how, how is this stuff doing all this? I'll give you another example. So the Cleveland Clinic, a few years ago, discovered a chemical called TMAO that I write about in all my books, that they say damages blood vessels, really damages it, hurts them. And they have a bunch of papers that show it. And they proved that TMAO is manufactured by gut bacteria eating animal proteins, certain

• 15:01Steven Gundry?

  animal proteins, and breaking it down into TMA, and then goes to your liver and makes TMAO. So they found some vegans and vegans didn't have any TMAO in their bloodstream. They go, "Oh, look at that. Isn't that cool? Here are vegans. We want you to eat some animal protein." And they got some of them to agree. Wow. And let's see if you make TMAO. And lo and behold, they didn't make TMAO. So they had a different set of gut bacteria. So they said, "Everybody should be a vegan." Well, that didn't go over well. So one of their researchers, to their credit, said, "Hey, wait a minute. You know, the Mediterranean diet, not a lot of heart disease.

• 15:45Steven Gundry?

  And, you know, they're eating salamis and they're eating cheeses. What's with that?" So they say, "Hey, that's a good question." So they found that there is a compound. I may get it quite wrong, but it's 1, 1, 3 dimethylbutanol that paralyzes bacteria. The enzyme system. Good bacteria, bad? It doesn't matter. Just paralyzes their enzyme system so they can't make TMAO, even if you fed them meat. TMAO is bad. Is bad. According to Cleveland Clinic. Okay. So they said, "Well, where is this chemical?" And it turns out, it's in olive oil, it's in red wine,

• 16:29Steven Gundry?

  and it's in balsamic vinegar. So they went, "Wow, there's this chemical in these foods that are native to the Mediterranean diet." That kills the TMAO or that blocks it? That prevents TMAO from being made. Interesting. Olive oil? Olive oil, red wine, and balsamic vinegar. Interesting. Two of the three I don't like. Well, well, so. You gotta have more olive oil. So the point of all this is, is holy cow. There are components of, you know, a really healthy diet that's preventing, if you believe the Cleveland Clinic, the manufacture of this compound, even though you're eating meat. Interesting. So you could eat meat and still not get away with it? And get away with it.

• 17:14Steven Gundry?

  If you're doing these other three things. Correct. Heavily, which sardine sounds like they do. They do.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So they have the highest concentration of, or one of the highest concentrations of autoimmune diseases in Sardinia.

• 17:29Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  And you think that's in Europe, you think that's because of the gluten intake?

• 17:34Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, my humble opinion is it's because that they are actually the highest bread and

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  Carb eaters.

• 17:43Steven Gundry?

  Pasta. In Europe.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they do very little protein, I think is the

• 17:47Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, and I agree with that.

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  Less protein.

• 17:50Steven Gundry?

  Less protein.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 17:52Steven Gundry?

  Well, again, in the longevity paradox, I think what's missing in the discussion of blue zones is not the commonality of foods that they eat, because they have wildly different diets. I mean, the Okinawans eat 85% of their diet is sweet potatoes.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:10Steven Gundry?

  And they have very little fat, and whatever fat they have is actually pork fat, lard. And they eat very little rice, and they eat very little soy, and the soy they do eat is miso, is fermented. So to say a blanket statement, all the blue zones eat grains and beans is actually not true. Sardinia uses, you know, a liter of olive oil a week. Crete, another blue zone.

• 18:40Lewis Howes?

  They put it on their bread, on their pasta.

• 18:42Steven Gundry?

  The only purpose of food is to get olive oil into your mouth.

• 18:44Lewis Howes?

  Correct.

• 18:45Steven Gundry?

  A liter of olive oil a week in Greece. So a very high fat diet. And so the difference, I think, in all the blue zones is that all of these blue zones, including Loma Linda, have very little animal protein as a part of their diet. And the Adventist Health Study, which has been ongoing for a very long time, looking at the factors in longevity in the Adventists, who are, you know, the longest living people in the United States.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  Is that Loma Linda?

• 19:16Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, Loma Linda, yeah.

• 19:19Steven Gundry?

  Is the vegans of the Adventists have the least heart disease, the longest lifespan. And a colleague of mine, Gary Murray, who's been studying this for years, has shown that for every little bit of animal protein that enters the diet of an Adventist, the more heart disease and the more mischief you see. Adventist? Yeah, so the Adventists, we could do a whole thing on the Adventists. Because actually, the Adventists, well, we owe breakfast cereal to the Adventists.

• 20:00Steven Gundry?

  William Kellogg and Harvey Kellogg were physicians at the Battle Creek Sanitarium, which was an Adventist health sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan. And he, both of them really wanted their patients to eat whole grains. And they're Frosted mini wheats. Throw a bunch of sugar on it. And we could really go down this rabbit hole because it was thought that whole grains would prevent young men from having evil sexual thoughts and masturbate. Really? Really. I need to find this resource. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So But you add sugar, though.

• 20:45Steven Gundry?

  It takes you to crazy. They couldn't get people to eat whole grains. So it tastes bad. It could taste bad. So they said, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna homogenize this stuff. With 50 grams of sugar on it? Yeah, we're gonna homogenize this stuff and we're gonna make corn flakes. They actually learned to make corn flakes from C.W. Post, who was also there. Interesting. And the reason Kellogg's corn flakes exist is because one of the brothers said, you know, nobody's gonna eat this until we put sugar in. Of course. And the one brother said, no, no, no, we can't put sugar in it. So they broke. And so the Kellogg's Corn Flakes company was actually the first company that advertised a predigested food, which was, and it was easier on your digestion.

• 21:27Steven Gundry?

  And that breakfast was by far the most important meal of the day.

• 21:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow, good marketing.

• 21:32Steven Gundry?

  Exactly.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  We should be breaking.

• 21:35Steven Gundry?

  So many myths of what we actually believe is the truth is the product of good marketing.

• 21:41Lewis Howes?

  What is the, I mean, it sounds like for the first half of your career, you had a certain set of beliefs based on your training and the information that was provided to you in the medical space.

• 21:52Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  And I would say you're in your second half of your career now, right? You're in phase two of it, I guess. And you've had to relearn and unlearn and research and test and guinea pig on a lot of these different things. What are the things that you think are true now that in 20 years are going to be false? Or are going to evolve into a different way of thinking?

• 22:17Steven Gundry?

  Well, gee, I hope everything in 20 years is different than what I think now. I mean, I really do.

• 22:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 22:23Steven Gundry?

  Because we'll have far more, you know, research. And remember, research means look again. Re-search.

• 22:31Lewis Howes?

  Look back and look at the information.

• 22:34Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, one of my mentors at the NIH, Andrew G. Morrow, always used to say, there is nothing new to be discovered, but there's everything to be rediscovered. And I think when you kind of look at it that way, you go, I mean, for instance, Michael DeBakey, one of the fathers of heart and vascular surgery in Texas, back in the 50s and 60s, when cholesterol came, you know, into the forefront, he always used to say, look, cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease. It's an innocent bystander. And, you know, just get off of it.

• 23:14Steven Gundry?

  It's gotten trapped in an inflammatory process, but it didn't cause the inflammation.

• 23:21Lewis Howes?

  What caused the inflammation?

• 23:23Steven Gundry?

  So, for one thing, if you have a little wheat germ of gluten and stuck to the inside of your blood vessel like a splinter, that's a really good cause of inflammation. So, you know, and I wrote about this in Longevity Paradox, let's suppose I'm an alien sent to orbit the earth to, you know... Send back to high command my observations.

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:46Steven Gundry?

  And one of the things that I could send back to high command is I've been watching the freeways in LA, you know, and I can tell you without a doubt that ambulances are the cause of accidents. Because every time there's an accident, I see an ambulance.

• 24:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:02Steven Gundry?

  And so.

• 24:03Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 24:04Steven Gundry?

  So again, causation is not correlation. Correlation is not causation.

• 24:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:09Steven Gundry?

  So we could make an observation, which I could make in the operating room every day, that I see cholesterol plaque on the inside of that artery. So cholesterol must have caused that plaque. But DeBakey would say no. Cholesterol is basically a callus that is piling up on an irritation to protect that underlying structure.

• 24:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:35Steven Gundry?

  And that's why we see these plaques regress when you take away the irritation. Just like if you stop lifting weights, guess what? Your callus goes away.

• 24:48Lewis Howes?

  How do you take away the irritation?

• 24:50Steven Gundry?

  Stop eating those things.

• 24:51Lewis Howes?

  And what are those main things?

• 24:53Steven Gundry?

  So, I mean.

• 24:55Lewis Howes?

  So meat, meat, I want to talk about meat for a second. Do you eat meat?

• 24:58Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, it's good. Yeah, I do eat meat, but not a lot.

• 25:00Lewis Howes?

  Not a lot. And but I'm hearing.

• 25:02Steven Gundry?

  Speaking of irritation.

• 25:03Lewis Howes?

  Because meat causes irritation.

• 25:06Steven Gundry?

  So there's a, there's a, okay, so I mentioned NU5AC, the little wheat germ and gluten in likes to stick to. It's a sugar molecule. You and I have the lining of our blood vessels with a sugar molecule called NU5AC. There won't be a test.

• 25:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay, I'm not remember.

• 25:26Steven Gundry?

  Who knew? Okay, just remember who knew.

• 25:28Lewis Howes?

  Who knew?

• 25:29Steven Gundry?

  So beef, lamb, and pork have a different sugar molecule lining their blood vessels called NU5GC. They differ by literally one chemical.

• 25:44Steven Gundry?

  What happens is, these two molecules look very, very similar. And in us, when we eat new 5GC.

• 25:54Lewis Howes?

  Beef, lamb, and pork.

• 25:55Steven Gundry?

  Beef, lamb, and pork. Many of us make a antibody to that sugar molecule, because it's foreign. And that antibody, when it sees our blood vessels with its new 5AC, it mistakes new 5AC for new 5GC. And in a case of mistaken identity, you attack your own blood vessels.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  So beef, lamb, and pork are no bueno.

• 26:21Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so that's why. If you look at large studies, there is an association with red meat and increased heart disease. It's not that red meat has any evil substance in it. It's this dumb sugar molecule.

• 26:39Lewis Howes?

  So it's a molecule within the red meat?

• 26:41Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, it's in all the blood vessels in the red meat.

• 26:43Lewis Howes?

  That will attack your...

• 26:45Steven Gundry?

  That you will make a antibody to, because it's foreign.

• 26:49Lewis Howes?

  To attack against...

• 26:49Steven Gundry?

  And then you'll attack your own blood vessels.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  And what happens when you attack your own blood vessels?

• 26:53Steven Gundry?

  Inflammation. And then the cholesterol comes, and you get a callus, and then you have heart disease. It's all at the end.

• 27:02Lewis Howes?

  But what about all the people that are swayed by the carnivore diet, and eating more meat, and this is actually what's going to make you leaner, and your skin's going to clear up? Some people must swear by that research.

• 27:14Steven Gundry?

  And unfortunately, some people credit me as the father of the carnivore diet. Because the carnivore diet is eliminating all forms of plant material which have lectins.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 27:32Steven Gundry?

  And Paul Saldino said, "You're the guy who started me down this path."

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  You couldn't eat all these plants, so I gotta eat meat.

• 27:40Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, it's obvious that plants hate us. You were right, you know, there's not a good plant in the world. You're wrong about that. You can't be too careful, and if you just eat meat, you'll be fine. So it's the ultimate elimination diet. And I have nothing, I actually have nothing against it.

• 27:59Lewis Howes?

  The carnivore diet?

• 28:00Steven Gundry?

  As a short-term diet. As long as, for instance, you're getting grass-fed, grass-finished beef, you're getting wild fish, and so on down the line. What I have a problem with is, first of all, there is no society, long-lived society, that has followed a carnivore diet. There is none.

• 28:25Lewis Howes?

  No blue zone.

• 28:26Steven Gundry?

  There's no carnivore blue zone.

• 28:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:29Steven Gundry?

  And...

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  They're mostly vegan blue zones, right?

• 28:31Steven Gundry?

  Mostly vegetarian.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  Vegetarian.

• 28:34Steven Gundry?

  Blue zones. So...

• 28:36Lewis Howes?

  They'll have some egg, they'll have some cheese.

• 28:38Steven Gundry?

  Exactly.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  They'll have some...

• 28:39Steven Gundry?

  And there are actually some cool studies that Parmesan cheese extends your lifespan.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  You're speaking my language!

• 28:46Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so anyhow. Find the society that lives...

• 28:53Lewis Howes?

  It was all meat.

• 28:54Steven Gundry?

  That's all meat.

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 28:56Steven Gundry?

  I mean, even the Eskimos, even the Nordic herders knew that they, for instance, couldn't live on protein alone, that they actually had to have a huge amount of fat in their diet to balance the protein.

• 29:11Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so I had Dr. Rhonda Patrick on, and I asked her, and she does a lot of studies, and she's, I think, wearing a glucose monitor. She's constantly testing, like, what's working. She said grapes were the worst thing you should eat because it spikes you so much more than any other type of sugar.

• 29:26Steven Gundry?

  That's very true. Grapes are the ultimate sugar bomb.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's horrible for your, for everything.

• 29:32Steven Gundry?

  For everything.

• 29:33Lewis Howes?

  Which is, you think as a kid, like, oh, have some grapes. You feed your kids these things, which is worse than a candy bar, it sounds like.

• 29:39Steven Gundry?

  Oh, yeah, and parents are feeding their kids apple juice and grape juice.

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  And this stuff... Apple juice is no good.

• 29:44Steven Gundry?

  Holy cow.

• 29:45Lewis Howes?

  If it's like fresh apple juice, or is it with the sugar added to it?

• 29:49Steven Gundry?

  So, when it says no sugar added on the label, what that means is, there's so much sugar in here already, we didn't have to put any more in.

• 29:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:58Steven Gundry?

  That's...

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  What's the difference between apple and apple juice?

• 30:01Steven Gundry?

  Well, they're both horrible for you.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  Apples are bad?

• 30:03Steven Gundry?

  Oh, gosh.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  I thought apples were good for you, with all the different vitamins and...

• 30:09Steven Gundry?

  An apple, when I was growing up, was this little bitty thing about that size. And maybe four bites and you were done with an apple. Now it's... Now it's the size of a grapefruit. And they got these names that ought to warn you. You know, Honeycrisp. That's the most... That's the best kind. That's the best kind. Yeah, and it's like, wait a minute. It's so good. Yeah, because it's pure fructose. And fructose is... And you'll see in my upcoming book, The Energy Paradox, that if you want to impair your energy production, fructose is the gift from, you know, God to impair your energy production. To hurt you. To hurt you. Bananas too?

• 30:52Steven Gundry?

  Any fructose is just lethal to your mitochondria. So we just gotta eliminate all fruit? So, for instance, your fruit smoothie protein shake that you guzzle down to go work out is probably the worst possible thing you could do for your mitochondria and your energy. The worst. Well, here's what I have been doing. I've been doing more of just... I just tell them half a banana. So have it green. Have it green. If you have it green, it is a prebiotic fiber. So it is... It's a starch that you actually can't digest. But it gives your microbiome, your gut buddies,

• 31:36Steven Gundry?

  exactly what they want to eat to actually energize you. Put no fruit in it. Yeah, well, use a green banana. It works great. A green banana. Gotcha. You remember, I mean, the godfather of fitness, Jack Leline, always used to say, "If it tastes good, spit it out." Don't eat it. That's why, you know, he used to say that. And, you know, one of the other things that I put in the new book. How long did he live till? Ninety-six. And he actually probably... And I got to know him in his later years. I got to pick his brain. He probably wouldn't be dead. He got pneumonia and... From what I'm told, refuse to take antibiotics. And there are places where antibiotics are really useful.

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, when something like happens. How bad, you mentioned before, you said a lot of interesting things. You mentioned about Ibuprofen and other medicines that people take just to eliminate minor pains and aches and headaches. How bad for your body is taking a medicine in general? Like an over the counter medicine for something smaller?

• 32:39Steven Gundry?

  So, we used to, most over the counter medications used to be prescription medication.

• 32:45Lewis Howes?

  Like a Tylenol or?

• 32:46Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, like, like an Advil, like Imotrin and Ibuprofen.

• 32:50Lewis Howes?

  You used to have to write a prescription for that?

• 32:52Steven Gundry?

  Exactly. And there used to be a requirement that you could only take it for two weeks because it was so lethal.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:01Steven Gundry?

  Just like...

• 33:02Lewis Howes?

  Lethal in what way? It's not killing you, but it's...

• 33:05Steven Gundry?

  It makes giant holes on the inside of the wall of your gut. It's like swallowing a hand grenade.

• 33:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 33:13Steven Gundry?

  And drug companies knew this, and the literature's there. I show it in The Plant Paradox. They knew this. And that's why it carried a warning, that you cannot take this. This is a prescription only medication. And you can't take it for more than two weeks because it's gonna blow holes in your gut.

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  And then it's gonna take you a month to recover and heal.

• 33:32Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you the number of athletes that came to my clinic with an autoimmune disease out of the blue, following a sports injury that they were taking, you know, Advil like candy for the pain. And then all of a sudden, out of the blue, they come up with lupus, or rheumatoid arthritis, or MS. And they go, what the heck? And their doc said, oh, well, you just got an autoimmune disease. Have a nice day, and you know, here's a, here's a medication that you're gonna take the rest of your life, that we use in heart transplants.

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:07Steven Gundry?

  And it turns out, when we looked at them and saw what they were doing, and we took that away from them, give them a few months, they heal their gut, and boom, their autoimmune disease goes away. Goes away.

• 34:19Lewis Howes?

  But as a doctor, you must have prescribed?

• 34:22Steven Gundry?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:22Lewis Howes?

  Prescription drug medication for years.

• 34:24Steven Gundry?

  I, I had a knee injury, I had a meniscus tear, and I was swallowing Celebrex right and left, and Advil, and it wasn't helping, and, and I was getting fatter and sicker, and I'm going... What's the deal? I guess it's just getting old. I'm forty years old at that point. So then when I stopped all that stuff and started healing my gut and bone, you know, seventy pounds came off.

• 34:50Steven Gundry?

  My arthritis went away, my migraines went away, my high blood pressure went away.

• 34:54Lewis Howes?

  This is so interesting because, you know, I never took medicine growing up as a kid. I think I told you I grew up in a Christian Science religion.

• 34:59Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  And it was more about healing through the mindset, healing through prayer, healing through your thought.

• 35:05Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 35:05Lewis Howes?

  Because my, well, this is the way my dad taught me. He was just like, you know, there is no such thing as a physical body. You are an idea. You are a thought, and a thought cannot be harmed. So therefore, you cannot feel physical pain. You cannot have an injury in the kingdom of God. And, um, and so, but I remember being like, but this really hurts, you know, it's like, ah, this is like, my hand hurts. Ah, I just got smashed with a football, you know, it's like, uh, I broke three ribs. I'm like, there's pain here. And so it was always contradicting thought. And my grandfather would always say, you know, uh, Christian Science stands for CS, which is common sense. And, you know, if you break something, go to the hospital, get it taken care of, and then go back to

• 35:47Lewis Howes?

  healing the mind, and then go back to nutrition, things like that. Like, use it when you need to, but don't abuse it. Would you say medicine today is something we should use when you really need it, but you shouldn't be taking stuff for little minor aches and pains? You should be focused on healing from within the gut.

• 36:06Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 36:06Lewis Howes?

  Would you prescribe that?

• 36:08Steven Gundry?

  Well, absolutely. I mean, for instance, I, I'll prescribe a statin drug for somebody who's just had a heart attack, who has statin, or who I did a bypass on, just temporarily until, until I can.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  The infection goes away.

• 36:23Steven Gundry?

  Well, until I can correct the things that got him into this problem. It's like, you know, if you break your leg, you're gonna wear a cast, but you're not gonna wear a cast the rest of your life.

• 36:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:33Steven Gundry?

  Right?

• 36:33Lewis Howes?

  Some people take the medicine forever.

• 36:35Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, it's like, you know, if. If somebody came in with pneumonia, like Jack and Wayne, and I go, "Oh, you know, you have pneumonia, and you're gonna have to take this medication the rest of your life to treat your pneumonia." And you'd look at me like, "What are you talking about? Give me the 10 days of antibiotics." And, "No, no, no, I wanna manage your pneumonia." And so, it's the idea of, "I wanna manage your heart disease, I wanna manage your diabetes, I wanna manage your high blood pressure." Well, what I and many other people now realize is, that's ridiculous. You wanna find out why you developed that, teach you to get rid of that, and then it all goes away.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  So, it's good to take the medicine during that time when you need to, and then find a solution in other ways afterwards, but don't continue on it. Is there any disease, or infection, or ailment, that requires lifelong medication?

• 37:31Steven Gundry?

  I haven't found one yet.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  Because some people say, like, "I've been on medication for 10 years, and I take 6 to 10 pills a day."

• 37:40Steven Gundry?

  You have to stop your immune system from getting all excited about every little thing.

• 37:47Lewis Howes?

  From attacking itself.

• 37:48Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so, I mean, let me give you a great example. So, 95% of human beings are born with an antibody to the peanut lectin. That is, you pop out-

• 38:01Lewis Howes?

  This is the saddest thing you told me in the last interview.

• 38:03Steven Gundry?

  You know, you pop out of the womb, and you actually have an antibody to peanut.

• 38:07Lewis Howes?

  Which an antibody means what?

• 38:09Steven Gundry?

  Means you have a little, you basically have a piece of protein that recognizes the peanut lectin as a foreign material.

• 38:22Lewis Howes?

  When you eat peanuts-

• 38:23Steven Gundry?

  And it says-

• 38:24Lewis Howes?

  That attacks against-

• 38:25Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, "Oh, my gosh, here's this little troublemaker," and it attaches to it, and it literally sends out a beacon that calls your immune system, says, "Here it is, come and get it, it's a foreign, you know, agent, and kill it."

• 38:37Lewis Howes?

  And that causes inflammation.

• 38:39Steven Gundry?

  And that's what causes inflammation.

• 38:40Lewis Howes?

  So, the 5% of people, you're saying have a chance?

• 38:43Steven Gundry?

  Well, no, but here's the deal. When I was growing up, nobody had peanut allergies.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  Oh, really?

• 38:50Steven Gundry?

  Kids didn't carry EpiPins to school, there were peanuts on airplanes. Why? Because our immune system, because of our gut microbiome, all these hundred trillion organisms, literally talk to your immune system. And they literally send text messages that says, starting literally from birth, we actually now know before birth, it tells your immune system, okay, here's what you ought to be interested in, here's what we're interested in, here's where we have your back. Uh, I've got the most incredible front four blocking you, so if you need,

• 39:32Steven Gundry?

  you know, you, you need five, 10 minutes to find the receiver downstream, don't worry. Right, we got your back. Yeah, nobody's gonna get to you. So you have a little bit of peanuts, it's not, we got you covered, but if you're eating it all day long. Yeah, so it just says, just chill out, these guys aren't important. But now, what's happened is, our microbiome is decimated, our gut is leaky, now all sorts of material are coming through the wall of our gut, and our immune system is going, ah, I, I gotta be afraid of everything. Anything that looks foreign, I ought to go after it, and, you know, and so that's what's happened. So, for instance, I had such bad allergies as a kid, and as a teenager, and as a young adult, I was getting allergy shots, you know, every, every week. Now I don't have any allergies.

• 40:17Steven Gundry?

  Uh, I can be exposed, for instance, I met a cat, um, at a, at a neighbor's house last weekend, and, very friendly cat, and, and I said, you know, I used to be really allergic to cats, you know, just pet a cat, and, you know, I started waiting, and my nose running, and, cat and I became good friends, you know, I rubbed my eyes, and... Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Wow. Yeah, nothing. So, I've taught my immune system, or rather, my bugs have taught my immune system, just relax. And you build the good bugs through the good foods. Yeah. Yeah. Feed the bugs. So, okay. It's like Jacqueline, give them what they want. Not what your tongue wants. Not what your tongue wants. I stick a tongue.

• 41:01Steven Gundry?

  Like Jack says, do you wake your dog up for a cup of coffee and a donut? Oh, man, those donuts, though.

• 41:07Lewis Howes?

  So, okay, back to this, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, she, she, I asked her when I interviewed her, I said, "Okay, if you could only eat four things, just say hypothetically, you can only have four things that you can eat every single day," which is not the way to thrive, because you want to have lots of diversity and all these different things. But if you could only have four things, I said, "What are the best four things you could eat?" She said, "Wild salmon, avocado, kale, and blueberries." If you could only have four ingredients every single day. I'm curious what your thoughts on those four, or would you have a different four? If you could only have four things every day to help you live a long, healthy, happy life, what would that be?

• 41:49Steven Gundry?

  So, you could certainly do better than blueberries. Blueberries unfortunately have been bred for sugar content. So, your best berries, and there's a lot of things to like about berries, are actually blackberries and raspberries. Third on the list is strawberries, and blueberries are actually quite a ways down the list. So, I'd be, pomegranate seeds would be on my list. Not pomegranate juice, but pomegranate seeds.

• 42:20Lewis Howes?

  The seeds?

• 42:21Steven Gundry?

  The seeds.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  As one of the four things you should eat every day?

• 42:23Steven Gundry?

  Exactly.

• 42:24Lewis Howes?

  Why pomegranate seed?

• 42:25Steven Gundry?

  A couple of things. Pomegranate has some really cool, let's just use polyphenols, that really tell your immune system to behave itself, number one. Number two, really keeps your vascular bed flexible. And number three, has some compounds that probably really help your brain long-term.

• 42:51Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 42:52Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Okay, so pomegranate seeds was number two?

• 42:56Steven Gundry?

  So, coffee. And particularly, coffee fruit.

• 43:03Steven Gundry?

  So

• 43:04Lewis Howes?

  What is coffee fruit?

• 43:04Steven Gundry?

  So coffee fruit is what's thrown away. Coffee bean is a bean inside the fruit. And for instance, you know, olive seeds aren't very good for you, but olive fruit is incredibly good for you. And if you press it, it makes olive oil. So it was discovered a number of years ago that coffee fruit, the literally stuff you throw away, has probably the highest percentage of BDNF, brain-derived neurotropic factor of any compound in the world. And so, you know, I just had Dale Bredesen on my podcast last week, and Dale says, "Oh, yeah, if you want to protect your brain, just get, you know, get coffee fruit extract."

• 43:48Lewis Howes?

  So is the coffee bean the seed of the fruit?

• 43:53Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 43:54Lewis Howes?

  So the bean is still...

• 43:55Steven Gundry?

  So coffee's still really good for you, as long as you don't mess with it.

• 43:59Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So just black coffee?

• 44:02Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, black coffee.

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Not adding some ghee or some... You don't like that?

• 44:07Steven Gundry?

  You don't need to.

• 44:07Lewis Howes?

  Okay, you don't need to. I like bulletproof coffee, but yeah, okay.

• 44:10Steven Gundry?

  And Dale's a good friend of mine, and we have a good time together.

• 44:14Lewis Howes?

  You like the coffee fruit better than the bean?

• 44:16Steven Gundry?

  Yeah. Yeah, the coffee fruit... Well, do both.

• 44:18Lewis Howes?

  Coffee's good too, black coffee.

• 44:20Steven Gundry?

  Black coffee's great.

• 44:21Lewis Howes?

  No sugar, no cream. Okay, cool. Number three, what would you say?

• 44:24Steven Gundry?

  Number three, um, bivalve shellfish.

• 44:29Lewis Howes?

  Shellfish?

• 44:30Steven Gundry?

  Forget the wild salmon.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 44:33Steven Gundry?

  Forget the wild salmon.

• 44:34Lewis Howes?

  What's shellfish?

• 44:35Steven Gundry?

  So, for instance, bivalve. So clams, oysters, scallops, um, those things, if you want to have a great functioning mitochondrial system, if you want a great functioning brain, there are such cool, what are called phospholipids, that you make most of the inner and outer membranes of mitochondria out of. And just to... Toy with your brain. If you look, there's a, there's a phospholipid, particularly in shellfish, scallops, that's called plasmalogin.

• 45:19Steven Gundry?

  And there won't be a test on this either. So you can take Alzheimer's brains and you'll find that they are profoundly deficient in plasmalogin. And there's two studies in Japan of supplementing people with mild cognitive impairment with plasmalogins. And lo and behold, their brain wakes up and starts working again.

• 45:44Lewis Howes?

  With shellfish?

• 45:45Steven Gundry?

  With shellfish.

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  What's another, that's not shrimp, is it?

• 45:49Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, that's also a shellfish, but it's not a bivalve.

• 45:52Lewis Howes?

  Bivalve is?

• 45:53Steven Gundry?

  Bivalve is oysters and scallops. And mussels.

• 45:56Lewis Howes?

  Something that's, oh, mussels.

• 45:58Steven Gundry?

  Mussels, oh, I like that. Mussels are great.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  Some two for four, I like.

• 46:00Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, mussels are great. So that's what I'm taking on the, on the island with.

• 46:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay, and the fourth thing?

• 46:08Steven Gundry?

  So the fourth, fourth thing is any form of chicory. So chicory, radicchio. You know what radicchio is? Everybody thinks it's an Italian red cabbage.

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 46:21Steven Gundry?

  Oh, come on, it's in every grocery store.

• 46:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:24Steven Gundry?

  Okay, so chicory, Belgian endive is chicory.

• 46:27Lewis Howes?

  Cabbage.

• 46:28Steven Gundry?

  Frise, you know, the Belgian endive, you go to Trader Joe's, they look kinda like a tulip bulb.

• 46:33Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 46:33Steven Gundry?

  A tulip that hasn't opened yet. You peel off the leaves.

• 46:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 46:37Steven Gundry?

  And you use it as a dipping chip for guacamole.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay, okay, okay, yes.

• 46:40Steven Gundry?

  Yes.

• 46:41Lewis Howes?

  So it turns. Chicory, it's kinda like a celery?

• 46:43Steven Gundry?

  Well, no, it's not part of the celery family.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 46:46Steven Gundry?

  But the chicory family has inulin. And if you wanna feed your friendly bacteria what they want to eat to take care of you their home, you gotta give them inulin. And the best source is chicory. And that's why you go, you have any salad in the south of France and in Italy, and I will guarantee you there will be some form of chicory.

• 47:11Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 47:13Steven Gundry?

  So I want you to start eating radicchio.

• 47:15Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 47:17Steven Gundry?

  Ridiculous.

• 47:17Lewis Howes?

  Ridiculous.

• 47:18Steven Gundry?

  And then you gotta pour every, you gotta pour olive oil on everything.

• 47:21Lewis Howes?

  If you do a plus to it, you put olive oil on, okay.

• 47:23Steven Gundry?

  Put olive oil in your coffee.

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  That's the fifth thing, okay. Olive oil and coffee.

• 47:27Steven Gundry?

  Instead of ghee.

• 47:28Lewis Howes?

  Now, let's say you can't get any of this stuff. Are there supplements for all these things out there?

• 47:33Steven Gundry?

  Of course, there is.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  Coffee, fruit supplement?

• 47:36Steven Gundry?

  I take two different kinds every day.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 47:38Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh, okay. Chicory supplements, is all this stuff?

• 47:41Steven Gundry?

  Innum. And you can get innumen, you can get it as a sweetener, for instance. Just like sugar, which I, I have no relationship with them.

• 47:50Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 47:50Steven Gundry?

  Is basically innumen.

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  So if you can't get all this stuff at your local grocery store, get the supplements as a second best.

• 47:58Steven Gundry?

  Correct. I mean, that's why I take about 120 supplements in the morning and about 80 at night.

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:04Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, I mean, what an.

• 48:05Lewis Howes?

  Because you're not eating all the food.

• 48:06Steven Gundry?

  Right, I can't possibly, you know, do what, I can't be a hunter gatherer. I mean, I can't be a gorilla that eats 16 pounds of leaves and twigs every day. Believe me, I've tried. It's, you can't do it.

• 48:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I'm curious about the different diets that are out there.

• 48:26Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  You got vegan, you got vegetarian, you got keto, you got carnivore diet. You got all these different diets, right? Paleo, and they're constantly evolving and changing every two, three years. I think there's something that is the thing. I feel like keto is the thing right now that everyone's talking about. Paleo was five, six years ago, it was the only thing people talked about.

• 48:44Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  Does each person need to eat differently? Or does every person, should they be eating the same based on their blood type? Based on their genes, based on their, their family history? Based on the region of the world they live in? Should we be eating specific for us? Or should everyone be eating the same?

• 49:03Steven Gundry?

  We should be eating for our microbiome.

• 49:06Lewis Howes?

  Period. For our unique microbiome.

• 49:09Steven Gundry?

  Yeah. And that's what we should be eating for, because. Our microbiome constitutes the vast majority of genes in our body. Ninety-nine percent of all the genetic material that exists in us and on us is non-human genetic material. And our microbiome has the distinct advantage of rapidly reproducing and constantly changing and exchanging information from one bacteria to another. And so, I happen to think that we've uploaded most of our decision-making processes to

• 49:54Steven Gundry?

  our bacterial cloud to take the work off of our genes. Because these guys, in the new book, The Energy Paradox, we now know that it's, I'm not going to spill it, spill the beans, so to speak, but we now know that that system, that microbiome, literally gives instructions which we now can measure. We've broken the code. We've only speculated that they've done this. But now, I didn't break the code, but scientists have broken the code of how, in fact, they talk to us and direct us. We really exist for our microbiome.

• 50:39Steven Gundry?

  And as long as...

• 50:40Lewis Howes?

  And what are microbiome?

• 50:41Steven Gundry?

  The microbiome are the bacteria, the fungi, the yeast, the bugs.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  The bugs. And ninety-seven percent of the bugs in our microbiome are foreign.

• 50:51Steven Gundry?

  So the genes...

• 50:53Lewis Howes?

  The genes are foreign.

• 50:54Steven Gundry?

  Yep, they are human genes. They're bacterial genes, they're fungal genes, they're viral genes. Yeah, I mean...

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  Fascinating.

• 51:03Steven Gundry?

  You and I are...

• 51:04Lewis Howes?

  So how many percentage of human genes do we have?

• 51:06Steven Gundry?

  Well, believe it or not, we only, the human genome, we only have 20,000 genes.

• 51:12Lewis Howes?

  How many total genes are there?

• 51:13Steven Gundry?

  You name it. I mean, so the bacterial... Genome is trillions and trillions of genes.

• 51:22Lewis Howes?

  Of bacterial genes.

• 51:24Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, of genes.

• 51:24Lewis Howes?

  And there's only 20,000 of ours.

• 51:26Steven Gundry?

  And in fact, we don't, everybody thought when the Human Microbi- Human Genome Project came out that we're going to prove that humans are by far the most complex species and in fact.

• 51:36Lewis Howes?

  What did we find out?

• 51:37Steven Gundry?

  It turns out corn has more genes than a human.

• 51:41Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 51:41Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Lewis Howes?

  Corn has more genes than a human.

• 51:43Steven Gundry?

  And the sand flea has the most genes of any animal. Yeah, so.

• 51:49Lewis Howes?

  So this is all proof of the Human Genome Project, right?

• 51:52Steven Gundry?

  Everybody was so upset at the Human Genome Project. What's wrong with you guys? Of course we have the most genes.

• 51:59Lewis Howes?

  A sand flea is more.

• 52:02Steven Gundry?

  And a piece of corn. More genes than.

• 52:05Lewis Howes?

  A piece of corn is more complex than a human.

• 52:07Steven Gundry?

  Mighty Louis How.

• 52:10Steven Gundry?

  So, I mean, you're like this to a sand flea. And when you were sitting on your sister's couch.

• 52:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:18Steven Gundry?

  I know. You said, you know, I am like this to a sand flea.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Exactly. So, okay. Microbiome is the most important thing.

• 52:30Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, sorry about that.

• 52:31Lewis Howes?

  And we need to.

• 52:33Steven Gundry?

  You need to eat for them.

• 52:34Lewis Howes?

  For the microbiome. Is that, is microbiome, micro bacteria?

• 52:38Steven Gundry?

  No, well, that's, that's a type of bacteria.

• 52:40Lewis Howes?

  Microbiome. And microbiome is a part of our genes?

• 52:45Steven Gundry?

  No, they. Of all the genes that, if we did a gene survey of every gene that we could find in you, 99% of all the genes that we could find in you would not be human. They would be.

• 52:59Lewis Howes?

  So crazy to think about.

• 53:00Steven Gundry?

  They would be foreign.

• 53:01Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy, isn't it?

• 53:02Steven Gundry?

  Well, yeah.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  So we need a foreign to live.

• 53:06Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, we've got this completely upside down.

• 53:09Lewis Howes?

  When did we discover this?

• 53:10Steven Gundry?

  About what's important, really only in the last 10 years since the Human Microbiome Project.

• 53:14Lewis Howes?

  This is crazy.

• 53:15Steven Gundry?

  I mean, I'll give you an example.

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  And these are like super smart scientists on the human.

• 53:19Steven Gundry?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 53:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 53:22Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, I mean, we just had no idea. When I was in medical school and up until the Human Microbiome Project, we assumed that the.

• 53:31Steven Gundry?

  GI tract, the stomach and intestines, was just this hollow tube. And you put some digestive enzymes in there. And all of a sudden, you know, you got proteins, you got fats, and you got carbohydrates. And then whatever was left, the garbage, you pooped out your rear end and that was it. That was it. That was what we thought before 10 years ago. Yeah. And then all, and then all of a sudden, they went, holy cow. And for instance, there were books written about the gut-brain axis. Because we knew that the second largest collection of neurons was lining the gut. And there's more neurons lining the gut than there are in the spinal cord. So it was called the second brain. The gut.

• 54:16Steven Gundry?

  The neurons in the gut. Well, now, as you'll see in the Energy Paradox, we were wrong about that. Those neurons are there to actually get messages from the microbiome. And then talk to the brain. So we missed the fact that there was this symbiotic sentient being that was not only living in us, but was directing us. Wow. And we also needed to survive. For their benefit. Because they live and feed off of us. Yeah, we're their home. That's crazy.

• 54:57Steven Gundry?

  And, as I wrote in The Plant Paradox and The Longevity Paradox, we know if you have, for instance, fat and sugar-loving bacteria, which I call gang members, they will hijack your brain and make you go find those foods that they want to eat. That's what causes addiction. You're addicted to it because it's craving, it's saying, I need more for you to feel good. What about mitochondria? What's the connection there? Ah, so the mitochondria are sisters of bacteria. Mitochondria are... So they are bacteria? They are engulfed bacteria that 2 billion years ago...

• 55:43Steven Gundry?

  Took up residence in another cell and in exchange for living in that cell, they said, "We'll make energy for you." And as long as... So they have... So they are bacteria. It's good, right? They have... And also create energy. They create energy. In the body, in the mind, in everything. And so they... So we want more mitochondria. Or healthier mitochondria. Yeah, the best part is, so you and I inherited all of our mitochondria from our mother. Dads did nothing for that, sorry. Okay. We're just drones. It's just useless.

• 56:27Steven Gundry?

  So our mitochondria are inherited from our mother, which are ancient bacteria. And our microbiome is initially inherited from our mother because, as I told Maria Shriver, your mother took a crap on you and she came out the birth canal. Right. And if you breastfeed, it turns out, one of the huge benefits of breastfeeding, we now know, is that the woman inoculates her child with more bacteria and more fungi. So it's good to breastfeed? It's really important to breastfeed. How long for you to breastfeed for? However long you don't want to reproduce. Wow. Usually, it's impossible to get pregnant when you're breastfeeding. Gotcha, gotcha, okay.

• 57:12Steven Gundry?

  About 10 years ago, I usually go to this microbiota conference every year in Paris and present my work. And the organizer, about 10 years ago, he said, "You realize that the microbiome talks to the mitochondria." And I went, "Really?" And he says, "Well, think about it." And he says, "They're related, they're sisters." And I said, "Well, come on, where's the proof?" And he says, "You watch, we're gonna find the proof, you just watch." And I said, you know, I believe you. You're the kind of the smartest guy I've ever seen in this field. And sure enough, you watch and you wait.

• 57:51Steven Gundry?

  And in the energy paradox, it's gonna blow your mind that there is now documented proof. I alluded to this in the longevity paradox, that the microbiome talks to the mitochondria. And they basically tell the mitochondria, if things are good down in the engine room, you guys churn out the energy. And if things aren't good down in the engine room, you guys probably ought to back off on producing energy, because troubles ahead. Save yourselves.

• 58:27Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So don't create energy when the gut is under attack?

• 58:30Steven Gundry?

  Bingo.

• 58:31Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 58:32Steven Gundry?

  Why? Because everything's not working down there.

• 58:35Lewis Howes?

  So when you create energy, when things aren't working in your gut and your digestive system, what happens then?

• 58:41Steven Gundry?

  Well, you don't create energy. That's why we have this epidemic of tiredness.

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  So you won't create energy because the gut

• 58:49Steven Gundry?

  Bingo.

• 58:50Lewis Howes?

  is not allowing it to signal to create it?

• 58:52Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 58:53Lewis Howes?

  Huh. Because it's got so much, it's probably trying to create it, it's just trying to defend itself.

• 58:57Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, I mean, think about it. We are overfed, but undernourished.

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:05Steven Gundry?

  I mean, we have more conveniences, more everything. We have more food. We have, you know, we have energy bars, we have energy drinks, and everybody needs five cups of coffee to get through the day. And it's like, what a paradox. We should have the most energy of any species ever. We should have a lot more energy than those Sardinians who are climbing up hills in their 90s. But we can't, you know, we can't get out of bed

• 59:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 59:35Steven Gundry?

  without a double espresso with some ghee.

• 59:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly. Wow.

• 59:40Steven Gundry?

  Yeah. And it's all because we stopped taking care of our microbiome.

• 59:45Lewis Howes?

  Microbiome is the key.

• 59:46Steven Gundry?

  All of, you know, so these ultra-processed foods, the ultra-processed foods have taken away all of the stuff that the microbiome would normally eat.

• 59:57Lewis Howes?

  Don't eat processed foods, even if it's a healthy processed food.

• 1:00:00Steven Gundry?

  There's no such thing.

• 1:00:03Lewis Howes?

  All processed food is bad food?

• 1:00:05Steven Gundry?

  Yeah. I mean, even these, you know, miracle, impossible burgers and Beyond.

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  Right, well, those are very processed.

• 1:00:13Steven Gundry?

  They're very processed.

• 1:00:15Lewis Howes?

  That's.

• 1:00:15Steven Gundry?

  And they're loaded with lectins, so knock your socks off.

• 1:00:18Lewis Howes?

  They taste good.

• 1:00:19Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:19Lewis Howes?

  I had a Beyond burger and I actually was like, wow, it tastes like a burger. If you put a little cheese on it, some onion.

• 1:00:25Steven Gundry?

  It's like, don't let a two by three inch muscle in your mouth dictate your life.

• 1:00:32Lewis Howes?

  So what's better to eat if I'm hearing beef, lamb, and pork are?

• 1:00:37Steven Gundry?

  So go have some, go have some muscles.

• 1:00:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so if you're gonna have a Beyond burger or a beef burger, grass fed, grass finished, which one should you eat?

• 1:00:45Steven Gundry?

  Uh, well, neither, because they're gonna be on a bun, but.

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  With no bun?

• 1:00:50Steven Gundry?

  So, for instance.

• 1:00:51Lewis Howes?

  Animal style.

• 1:00:52Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, exactly, animal style. So, you know, wrap it in some lettuce.

• 1:00:55Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, right?

• 1:00:56Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Lewis Howes?

  Which one?

• 1:00:57Steven Gundry?

  Have some grilled onion. Of the two of them, they both.

• 1:00:59Lewis Howes?

  You had to choose.

• 1:01:00Steven Gundry?

  They both have glyphosate, so just don't. Oh, you mean the beef? Yeah, grass fed, grass finished beef.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  Is better than the processed?

• 1:01:07Steven Gundry?

  Please look for grass finished.

• 1:01:10Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha, okay.

• 1:01:11Steven Gundry?

  Because it's perfectly legal. There's no rule of what grass fed means.

• 1:01:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you can just still.

• 1:01:18Steven Gundry?

  You could feed a cow grass for one day of its life and then take it to the feed lot and you can still leave it.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow, that's crazy.

• 1:01:25Steven Gundry?

  So you gotta see grass fed, grass finished.

• 1:01:28Lewis Howes?

  So I wanna go back to the food you should be eating for your, your.

• 1:01:32Steven Gundry?

  Gut.

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  Specific, well, your specific type, your body type, your gene type, your blood type. Does this matter if like, if you're a heavy workout lifter or extreme ultra runner? Does it matter the difference in types of foods or the quantity of food you should be eating?

• 1:01:47Steven Gundry?

  Well, so if you're actively building muscle, you're going to need to eat more protein.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 1:01:53Steven Gundry?

  But the idea that that protein should come from an animal or a plant. Doesn't hold water.

• 1:01:59Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't matter where. Well, it shouldn't come from an animal is what I'm hearing you say.

• 1:02:02Steven Gundry?

  Well, so, I mean, a gorilla has more muscle than you and I will ever have.

• 1:02:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Steven Gundry?

  You can do PX 90 all your life and you'll, you'll, you'll never.

• 1:02:12Lewis Howes?

  Be as strong as a gorilla.

• 1:02:13Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14Lewis Howes?

  But is that because of its genetic makeup and its functionality in nature?

• 1:02:18Steven Gundry?

  One of the things we think happened was that we decided to not have as much of our intestines devoted to making protein available for muscle work. It's one of the theories of why we could never do that. But a horse only eats grass and weeds.

• 1:02:36Lewis Howes?

  Look at the lion, the king of the.

• 1:02:38Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, the lion, incidentally, all the great cats actually eat the abdominal contents first.

• 1:02:46Lewis Howes?

  They eat the gut.

• 1:02:47Steven Gundry?

  They eat the gut.

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  The intestines, the intestines, the heart, the liver. Why is that? Because it's got more iron and it's got more protein.

• 1:02:54Steven Gundry?

  Plus, interestingly enough, it's got a bunch of microbiome. And the hanzas, when they make a kill, they actually, out in the field, strip all the chyme and stuff out of the intestines and they smear it on the cells and eat it.

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:03:13Steven Gundry?

  As the best part. And, you know, and the, the great cats will, will leave the muscles for the hyenas.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:03:22Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, because.

• 1:03:23Lewis Howes?

  It's not good meat.

• 1:03:24Steven Gundry?

  It's, they want, they want the good stuff. They want the fat and all the microbiome.

• 1:03:29Lewis Howes?

  They don't, they eat the gut and they leave the rest.

• 1:03:31Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Lewis Howes?

  Unless they're still hungry.

• 1:03:32Steven Gundry?

  Go ahead, pull up a video. You watch them, they're all sitting around the gut. Nobody's out there, you know, munching on a leg. I mean, there's, you know, there's six of them and they're all in the guts.

• 1:03:43Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Is that just a, a, a natural instinct for them?

• 1:03:48Steven Gundry?

  I mean, I'm sure their, you know, guts basically tell them.

• 1:03:53Lewis Howes?

  This is, this is like sugar for them. It's like.

• 1:03:56Steven Gundry?

  I mean, let, let me give you an example from the new book. There's a fascinating study out of China. The. The more we're realizing that most of the signals to eat are actually coming from the microbiome, and there are some researchers in China that said, you know, one of the things about fasting is you really get hungry, and you know, you really get hungry for a while. And I wonder if you're getting hungry because the microbiome is saying, hey, where's the food? Come on, go get some food. Because we know the gut, the gang members tell you to go get the crap.

• 1:04:38Steven Gundry?

  So what they said is, well, what if we had people fast, water only fast, but we give them 100 calories of prebiotics, fiber, sugars that we can't digest, but the gut microbiome can eat. Let's see what it does to their hunger sensation. And so they've done seven day fast, they've done 14 day fast, and the amazing thing is they found that they had no hunger.

• 1:05:09Lewis Howes?

  Just with 100 calories a day?

• 1:05:11Steven Gundry?

  Just 100 calories of non-digestible fiber, that it turns out that the gut microbiome said, we got this, thanks very much, that's all we need, it's great snack.

• 1:05:23Lewis Howes?

  You're not hungry anymore.

• 1:05:24Steven Gundry?

  You're not hungry. We're not hungry, so you're not hungry. And it's like, holy cow, you know, let's turn everything we know on our heads.

• 1:05:32Lewis Howes?

  When did this, when did we learn this?

• 1:05:33Steven Gundry?

  You're gonna see it in the book, Energy Paradox.

• 1:05:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Now, I just did a four day fast last week. I finished, I started on Saturday morning, I didn't eat Friday night, and I went into Saturday, or I had a dinner Friday night, and I didn't eat Saturday morning, I went and did a workout, and I said, you know what, let me see if I can do 24 hours. I'm feeling good, I'm not feeling hungry. I've never done a full 24 hours, I've done like 18, 20 hours. Let me see if I can do a full 24, see if I'll eat later for dinner tonight.

• 1:06:04Lewis Howes?

  And I said, you know what? I feel pretty good. I'm just drinking water. I said, let me see if I can wake up in the morning. I'll have breakfast. See if I can push it. And Sunday comes around, it's feeling good, and I have a, I have a coffee, black coffee. I have water and I have a celery juice. And I'm like, you know what? I feel pretty good. Let me see if I can do another day. And I go four days like this, right? Where I have celery juice, black coffee, lots of water.

• 1:06:27Steven Gundry?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:28Lewis Howes?

  For four days. I felt amazing. I didn't really feel hungry.

• 1:06:33Steven Gundry?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:33Lewis Howes?

  And it's a week, a week and a, about a week and a half later now. And I feel like, I just, I feel like it's just getting, still getting rid of like dead weight or something. It's like, I don't know what happened, and I don't have enough research, but what happened to my body after four days of fasting? Is that good for me to do once in a while? Does it benefit my longevity? What does it do for the, the gut and everything?

• 1:07:02Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so that was, so first of all, the vast majority of Westerners probably shouldn't embark on a prolonged fast, a three or four day fast, because we store heavy metals, we store pesticides, we store herbicides in our fat to protect us from those things. A swordfish has got lethal levels of mercury in it, but the swordfish is swimming around just fine because the swordfish, the fat has the mercury in it. It's like tuna, tono, you know, sushi lovers, tono is fatty tuna.

• 1:07:44Steven Gundry?

  So that's where all the, the heavy metals are concentrated, in the fat. So when we go on a fast, we start using fat from our fat stores. And as we liberate that fat, out come all the heavy metals, all the pesticides. Now, it goes to our liver. And the liver doesn't have a good detoxification system for particularly heavy metals. So you need phase one and phase two detoxification systems to work and I have a product to do that, but the big thing is, the liver doesn't know what to do with heavy metals, so it says.

• 1:08:26Steven Gundry?

  I'm just gonna throw this out in the bile and I'm sure that's how I'll get rid of it.

• 1:08:32Lewis Howes?

  In the poop.

• 1:08:33Steven Gundry?

  In the poop.

• 1:08:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:34Steven Gundry?

  The problem is, we recycle the mercury and the lead and the cadmium out of our intestines. So you actually set up this vicious cycle that you never get rid of those heavy metals. And this was actually proven.

• 1:08:50Lewis Howes?

  So a four-day fast was probably not the best thing to do.

• 1:08:53Steven Gundry?

  For you, you're probably okay because you don't have a whole lot of fat in you. But if you're gonna do that, you've gotta take activated charcoal.

• 1:09:02Lewis Howes?

  Ah.

• 1:09:02Steven Gundry?

  You gotta take chlorella, which will bind heavy metals. And then you-

• 1:09:07Lewis Howes?

  It'll help eliminate it-

• 1:09:08Steven Gundry?

  Exactly. It'll bind it and you can't reabsorb it.

• 1:09:11Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to putting it through the liver and hurting-

• 1:09:13Steven Gundry?

  Well, no, it'll come out the bile, but then it'll be grabbed by chlorella and activated charcoal.

• 1:09:19Lewis Howes?

  So if it's not grabbed by those two things, then what happens?

• 1:09:23Steven Gundry?

  So then you just recycle it. It goes back in your bloodstream. I mean, this was actually shown by a very famous professor, Ray Wolf- Roy Wolford from UCLA, who was in Biosphere 2. You're not old enough to remember Biosphere 2. Biosphere 2 was this crazy experiment in the Arizona desert where they built these geodesic domes. And they wanted to prove that man could live on Mars for a year and grow their own food.

• 1:09:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:09:52Steven Gundry?

  And so they locked the Biospherians in this geodesic dome. And the object of the game was they had to grow all their own food, produce all their own oxygen, everything self-contained, like kinda a little terrarium.

• 1:10:08Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:09Steven Gundry?

  So needless to say, it was a horrible failure. And so these guys lost a third of their body weight in the first six months. And Ray Wolford was a professor of pathology at UCLA here. And Ray's job was, he thought it was great because he was actually the father of calorie restriction.

• 1:10:28Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:28Steven Gundry?

  And he says, "Oh, look at this. Everybody's cholesterol's falling. Everybody's insulin's falling. Wow, we're really skinny, but look at all the great things." And then part of it was, he says, "You know, we ought to be looking for heavy metals and stuff like that." And it turns out, he wrote this obscure paper, and it's in several of my books, and it'll be in the Energy Paradigm. He found that heavy metals went sky-high in the biospherians and stayed elevated for a year after the end of the experiment.

• 1:10:59Lewis Howes?

  Because they just recycled.

• 1:11:00Steven Gundry?

  Because they were just recycling.

• 1:11:01Lewis Howes?

  They weren't eliminating it.

• 1:11:03Steven Gundry?

  And so, we as...

• 1:11:05Lewis Howes?

  We don't want heavy metals in our bodies.

• 1:11:07Steven Gundry?

  We, as Westerners, don't want that. So, there's...

• 1:11:11Lewis Howes?

  How do we get rid of them?

• 1:11:12Steven Gundry?

  So, you gotta bind them. You gotta bind them with chlorella and activated charcoal.

• 1:11:17Lewis Howes?

  So if we take those two things on a consistent basis...

• 1:11:20Steven Gundry?

  Like every day?

• 1:11:21Lewis Howes?

  Every day. Even just like a charcoal supplement, right?

• 1:11:24Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, just an activated charcoal supplement.

• 1:11:26Lewis Howes?

  You take it every day, it helps bind and eliminate. What is it? Charcoal?

• 1:11:30Steven Gundry?

  Charcoal and chlorella.

• 1:11:33Lewis Howes?

  Chlorella, okay. Wow. So if you take those two supplements every day?

• 1:11:38Steven Gundry?

  Yep.

• 1:11:38Lewis Howes?

  It should help eliminate heavy metals?

• 1:11:40Steven Gundry?

  Yep.

• 1:11:41Lewis Howes?

  And make you feel better. And your mitochondria will be happier?

• 1:11:44Steven Gundry?

  Every...

• 1:11:45Lewis Howes?

  Your microbiome will be happier?

• 1:11:46Steven Gundry?

  Everybody will be so happy.

• 1:11:48Lewis Howes?

  Okay, good. So what does heavy metals cause? Does it cause inflammation? Does it cause...

• 1:11:53Steven Gundry?

  So, heavy metals are actually a really good mitochondrial poison.

• 1:11:57Lewis Howes?

  They kill the mitochondria?

• 1:11:58Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58Lewis Howes?

  Which hurts your levels to have energy?

• 1:12:00Steven Gundry?

  Correct. And speaking of which, fruit is probably... fructose is probably... if you wanted to invent the best mitochondrial poison, it would be fructose.

• 1:12:11Lewis Howes?

  You're hurting my feelings here.

• 1:12:13Steven Gundry?

  I hate that.

• 1:12:14Lewis Howes?

  So that's sugar?

• 1:12:15Steven Gundry?

  It's fructose, which is different than sugar.

• 1:12:19Lewis Howes?

  High-fructose corn syrup?

• 1:12:19Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, that's where one of our problems... It's in everything.

• 1:12:23Lewis Howes?

  Every candy.

• 1:12:23Steven Gundry?

  It's in everything.

• 1:12:24Lewis Howes?

  High-fructose corn syrup. And then apples.

• 1:12:27Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Lewis Howes?

  But I hear apples are supposed to be great. How is that... they're bad for you, they're great for you, like...

• 1:12:33Steven Gundry?

  You know, you heard that if... all great apes only gain weight during the summer, during fruit season. And believe it or not, fruit only ripens once a year in the jungle. And they do that because winter is a time of less food. Whether it's a dry season, rainy season, cold season, there's less food. So we're designed to seek out fruit sugar to gain weight.

• 1:13:00Lewis Howes?

  For a rainy day.

• 1:13:01Steven Gundry?

  For a rainy day. And that's why two thirds of the sensors on your tongue are sweet receptors. Two thirds.

• 1:13:10Lewis Howes?

  Sugar tastes so good.

• 1:13:11Steven Gundry?

  And remember, you and I have color vision because we are fruit.

• 1:13:17Lewis Howes?

  Look at this.

• 1:13:18Steven Gundry?

  We are fruit predators.

• 1:13:19Lewis Howes?

  And the plant. Red shiny.

• 1:13:21Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, and the plant wants to tell you that it is ripe and its babies won't be digested by you. And now's the time and that the fructose is at the highest. That's why when you go down. That's why when you go down the snack aisles or the cereal aisles.

• 1:13:38Lewis Howes?

  All red and yellows.

• 1:13:39Steven Gundry?

  Red and yellows, red and yellows, yeah. Because it hits your brain and your brain said, fruit. That's gonna help me gain weight.

• 1:13:50Lewis Howes?

  And it helps.

• 1:13:51Steven Gundry?

  And it really does. It helps.

• 1:13:54Lewis Howes?

  Would you say that sugar is the main cause of obesity?

• 1:13:59Steven Gundry?

  No.

• 1:14:00Lewis Howes?

  What do you think is the main, the main thing?

• 1:14:02Steven Gundry?

  Leaky gut.

• 1:14:03Lewis Howes?

  Leaky gut is the main cause of obesity, but does sugar cause a leaky gut?

• 1:14:07Steven Gundry?

  No. And I talk about this in the Energy Paradox. You, you can actually design diets that are primarily pure carbohydrates. In fact, there are many diets that are pretty much pure carbohydrates. The Duke Rice Diet is one of them. And you can actually lose lots of weight.

• 1:14:30Lewis Howes?

  That sounds bad for the gut.

• 1:14:32Steven Gundry?

  It turns out, and you're gonna have to stay tuned for the Energy Paradox.

• 1:14:38Lewis Howes?

  You have to preorder the book to get that, yeah.

• 1:14:40Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, available now for preorder. Be out February 7th.

• 1:14:45Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:14:45Steven Gundry?

  But we'll come back.

• 1:14:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So, all right, so leaky gut is the cause of obesity?

• 1:14:50Steven Gundry?

  Yep. It is.

• 1:14:53Lewis Howes?

  And so if you heal the leaky gut?

• 1:14:54Steven Gundry?

  You have a war going on in your intestines. And as things come across the wall of your gut, your immune system, 70 to 80% of all your white blood cells are down in your gut. And a war gets started. And interestingly enough, the army has to have provisions. And we store fat, particularly in our gut, as provisions for our army. And in fact, I've published data that the war on the inside of our blood vessels, on our coronary arteries, we have fat, epicardial fat lining our blood vessels. And that epicardial fat

• 1:15:39Steven Gundry?

  isn't there in people who don't have coronary arteries. So that is the stockpile for fueling the army. So if you stop leaky gut, you lose weight.

• 1:15:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow, just like that.

• 1:15:55Steven Gundry?

  Just like that. And you know, and that's, I think we talked about this last time. One of the problems with COVID-19 and chronic diseases is that, my humble opinion and others, is that all chronic diseases stem from leaky gut.

• 1:16:12Lewis Howes?

  And that you put in your mouth.

• 1:16:13Steven Gundry?

  And our immune system is distracted by everything that's going on down here. And we don't have a lot of troops up where they ought to be in our nose and mouth.

• 1:16:29Steven Gundry?

  And when COVID hits and gets, then you have a hyper response, a cytokine storm, because your immune system, it's like the peanut allergy. It's like, oh my gosh, there's a silly little peanut antigen, let's go crazy. And so it's these unfortunate people who have obesity, who have diabetes, who have insulin resistance. And 80% of Americans are insulin resistant, metabolic syndrome. And so it's kind of, people go, well, you know, America's

• 1:17:10Steven Gundry?

  not doing very well with COVID. Well, we are the perfect setup for COVID.

• 1:17:15Lewis Howes?

  To attract COVID.

• 1:17:17Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, to, well, to get it and do poorly.

• 1:17:20Lewis Howes?

  Because we're already, don't sleep well, don't eat well, have obesity, have leaky guts, autoimmune disease, we already have disease that we're fighting, so our immune system is under attack all the time.

• 1:17:33Steven Gundry?

  Correct.

• 1:17:34Lewis Howes?

  So it's easier to catch.

• 1:17:35Steven Gundry?

  It's easier to catch, but then once you catch it, and the immune system finally says, oh my gosh, it's there, then the immune system just goes into a hyperdrive and cytokine storm. So it sneaks in, but then once it's in, the immune system goes crazy.

• 1:17:54Lewis Howes?

  Can foods protect us against COVID or viruses?

• 1:17:58Steven Gundry?

  So interestingly enough, there's some actually good work in fasting that was first prompted by the concentration camps in World War II. And there is no silver lining for that, but...

• 1:18:15Lewis Howes?

  If there was a silver lining.

• 1:18:16Steven Gundry?

  If there was, one of the things that first started people questioning what we knew about the immune system, was that, you know, these people were starving on purpose. And those, but those that survived never got ill. They never caught colds, they never got the flu, they didn't get cancer. They had nothing. And it was one of the striking things, here are these emaciated people that you would think... One cold virus would, that'd be the end of it.

• 1:18:51Steven Gundry?

  It turns out their immune system is just perfectly prepared to protect them really at all costs. And we learn that in the energy paradox with what happens with fasting. And what, what things your body does to make sure that you're going to emerge still around at the other side of however long this is going to take. And so, yeah, so the fasting or time restricted feeding. So limiting the eating window is really one of the best things we can do right now.

• 1:19:34Lewis Howes?

  Well, you have like a three to six hour window?

• 1:19:36Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so, you know, I, I tend to eat one meal a day during the week. And it's even got a name called OMAD, one meal a day. It's kind of cute. I didn't make it up. But, uh, yeah, and I, I tend to do that on the weekends.

• 1:19:52Lewis Howes?

  It's like an early dinner type of thing, or is this a?

• 1:19:55Steven Gundry?

  The more you can kind of stop eating before, three hours before bedtime, the better off you are.

• 1:20:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Steven Gundry?

  And Dr. Dale Bredesen, the end of Alzheimer's, you know, firmly believes this.

• 1:20:09Lewis Howes?

  Three hours before?

• 1:20:10Steven Gundry?

  Three hours before.

• 1:20:11Lewis Howes?

  Don't eat anything?

• 1:20:11Steven Gundry?

  Just don't eat anything.

• 1:20:12Lewis Howes?

  Water's fine?

• 1:20:13Steven Gundry?

  Water's fine, yeah.

• 1:20:14Lewis Howes?

  So COVID has been, you know, it seems like it's picking up around the world, right? It's sort of seems like in a lot of places. It doesn't slow down in USA or Mexico, it's spiking and all these other places. What can people do now to protect themselves against COVID and other viruses in general? Since it, it doesn't look like it's going away, at least the conversation for a year. Maybe the end of next year, who knows? Who knows how long it'll go? What can we do? And it's many factors, many lifestyle factors obviously included, but what can we do in your mind?

• 1:20:49Steven Gundry?

  Well, in terms of supplements, there's now five papers that show the higher your vitamin D level, the more you're protected from COVID and the less severe it's going to be. Now, you know, five different human papers. So I think that's number one. Vitamin D. Vitamin D3. Vitamin D3. Get it in your system. Get it in your system. Get timed release vitamin C. Vitamin C doesn't stick around very long. If you can't get vitamin, time release vitamin C, get the, get the vitamin C tablets and chew 500 milligrams four times a day.

• 1:21:28Steven Gundry?

  I do like curcetin or curcetin, which is present in onions, apples, and the white pith of citrus, but please take it as a Apples are good. It's got something in it. It's got something. So if you take it out of it and do that as a supplement. Green tea extract is very useful. Drinking green tea. Zinc, zinc, get about 30 milligrams of zinc per day. And, you know, elderberry. Elderberry is probably pretty useful in all this. But I think, one of the things I think we should learn is that the, the countries and

• 1:22:08Steven Gundry?

  even our states that, that really draconianly shut down and practice social distancing and practice mask wearing. Look, masks are not the greatest thing in the whole world. We don't have to live or die on all these studies that say, yes, they're helpful or yes, they're not helpful. But they, you know, every long-term study shows that masks probably have some effect. And it's like, I remember when seat belts were introduced in cars and there was a huge hue and cry. Fighting against seat belts. Against seat belts. And even in the medical literature. You're gonna make this a law for me? Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:52Steven Gundry?

  Well, not only that, but there in the medical literature, there was, you know, seat belt injuries of the abdomen. And I remember training, you know, oh, that's a seat belt injury. And so you can always muster an argument that, oh, you know, that's dangerous. But we of a society have decided that we can mandate public safety issues. And guess what? You better have a seatbelt on in your car now.

• 1:23:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:23:16Steven Gundry?

  Um, you know, and we can mandate airbags. And we can mandate that you can't drive drunk even though you'd love to.

• 1:23:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:23:24Steven Gundry?

  Um, and so the idea that we can't mandate for the public good. Sorry, you can't go 100 miles an hour, although lots of people are doing that now.

• 1:23:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:23:34Steven Gundry?

  Um, so, you know, I have a associate in Toronto who, when they were really shut down, they used cell phones to, you were allowed out of your residence one hour per week to go get groceries.

• 1:23:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:23:52Steven Gundry?

  And they tracked you on your cellphone.

• 1:23:56Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:23:57Steven Gundry?

  And to get around it, people would leave their cell phones in their house. And they knew that the cellphone, you know, was always there. And they go, that's funny, that person has to go out. And yeah, so that's draconian, that's horrible. But, you know, they shut it down. You know, you know, we used to feel so sorry for Italy, all these poor Italians singing from their balconies. But they shut it down.

• 1:24:25Lewis Howes?

  Now they're better now.

• 1:24:26Steven Gundry?

  And now they're better. And now they're opening them up.

• 1:24:28Lewis Howes?

  New Zealand is like, no cases, right?

• 1:24:30Steven Gundry?

  No cases.

• 1:24:31Lewis Howes?

  What does that do for our long-term happiness and health? To isolate more, longer and longer?

• 1:24:36Steven Gundry?

  Well, I don't think we have to isolate, but, you know, when, and Governor Newsom, I think, did a great job here early and we were all patting ourselves on the back and then.

• 1:24:45Lewis Howes?

  It opened up.

• 1:24:46Steven Gundry?

  It opened up and it clearly opened up too big. And let's face it, the bars were one of the biggest issues. I mean, you millennials, it's all about.

• 1:24:59Lewis Howes?

  I don't go to bars, sir.

• 1:25:00Steven Gundry?

  It's all about yourself.

• 1:25:02Lewis Howes?

  I hear you. You want to have fun.

• 1:25:05Steven Gundry?

  I didn't really mean that.

• 1:25:06Lewis Howes?

  It's okay.

• 1:25:07Steven Gundry?

  But yeah, so we just, you know, put the dumb mask on.

• 1:25:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:12Steven Gundry?

  Believe it or not, masks don't cause oxygen deprivation. They don't increase your CO2.

• 1:25:19Lewis Howes?

  They're just uncomfortable.

• 1:25:20Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, they're...

• 1:25:20Lewis Howes?

  Well, I've worn a mask most of my life.

• 1:25:22Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:25:23Lewis Howes?

  In surgery, so maybe I'm biased.

• 1:25:25Steven Gundry?

  Right. But just, you know, put the dumb thing on and social distance.

• 1:25:30Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:25:30Steven Gundry?

  And that part's easy. I mean, I go out to eat now.

• 1:25:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, outdoor seating.

• 1:25:36Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, outdoor seating. It's working.

• 1:25:37Lewis Howes?

  It's great.

• 1:25:38Steven Gundry?

  So...

• 1:25:39Lewis Howes?

  Dr. Gundry, this is amazing. And I want to have you back on when your next book comes out. The Energy Paradox.

• 1:25:45Steven Gundry?

  Energy Paradox.

• 1:25:46Lewis Howes?

  Which is coming out in February, but you can preorder it now, anywhere online, Amazon. And go to your website. You're on social media, Dr. Steven Gundry on Instagram, Dr. Gundry on Twitter, Dr. Steven Gundry on Facebook. You've got a lot of great products, information, free stuff at your website.

• 1:26:02Steven Gundry?

  The Dr. Gundry Podcast.

• 1:26:04Lewis Howes?

  Dr. Gundry Podcast, where I was on.

• 1:26:06Steven Gundry?

  I love that podcast, by the way.

• 1:26:08Lewis Howes?

  Great podcast. Thank you.

• 1:26:09Steven Gundry?

  I actually listened to it several times.

• 1:26:10Lewis Howes?

  Thank you. I had a good time.

• 1:26:11Steven Gundry?

  And one of your stories is in The Energy Paradox.

• 1:26:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I like it. I made the cut.

• 1:26:17Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, so far.

• 1:26:19Lewis Howes?

  Do this. I like that.

• 1:26:21Steven Gundry?

  Final edit, though.

• 1:26:22Lewis Howes?

  Well, exactly. I want to ask you a question. I think I'm going to ask you in the first interview, but I want to ask it again. It's called my three truths. So imagine you have a very long life, and you live as long as you want, right? And but for whatever reason, you know, the body shuts down and you've got to call it quits. And this is many years in the future. And you have created every type of content, book. You've seen things change in science, and all this stuff has evolved, and people are living longer than ever. But for whatever reason, all your content has to go with you to the next place. You can't leave your books behind, or any... This information is gone. But you get to leave behind three things that you've learned in your life that you know to be true.

• 1:27:06Lewis Howes?

  And this is the only things you could share with the rest of the world. This is all we'd have to remember you by.

• 1:27:11Steven Gundry?

  That's it?

• 1:27:12Lewis Howes?

  Three truths, three lessons that you've experienced that you would share. What would you say are your three truths?

• 1:27:20Steven Gundry?

  All disease begins and ends in the gut. I wish I had thought of that. I mean Hippocrates thought of that. And I guess the second one is trust your gut. Yeah, that's a great one. Yeah, number three. Actually, number three is you do have a soulmate. And do not settle until you find that soulmate. And don't let them out of your sight ever again. Oh, that's great. How's that? I like those three. You've been married once? Twice. So.

• 1:28:02Steven Gundry?

  But married to my soulmate who I was supposed to get married to first time around. Did you know her before? Oh, gosh, yeah. We were supposed to get married. You were supposed to get married? Yeah, we, we, we met, I was in a singing group at Yale and. What was your singing group called? Called The Baker's Dozen. Like the Wiffenpoofs. Okay. Just not as. Baker's Dozen. Nice, famous as the Wiffenpoofs. But we were capital recording artists. We actually opened for Dionne Warwick at the, at the Doral Hotel in Miami and. Wow. So, anyhow, so we were singing for our supper at Half Moon in Montego Bay, Jamaica, when I was 20 years old.

• 1:28:43Steven Gundry?

  And my wife now was sitting in the audience and we made eye contact. And we actually spent the night talking. And by the end of the night, she walked into her parents. I had to leave. And she walked in, she said, I just met the man I'm going to marry. And. Told her parents? Told her parents. So just met him. And unfortunately, she was going to school here at UCSB, University of California, San Barbara. I was going to school at Yale. And our parents, her parents lived in Connecticut, my parents lived in Atlanta, Georgia.

• 1:29:17Lewis Howes?

  This was Jamaica?

• 1:29:18Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, well, I was singing.

• 1:29:19Lewis Howes?

  You met in Jamaica?

• 1:29:20Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, and they were on vacation.

• 1:29:21Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:29:22Steven Gundry?

  They were on vacation. So, we had this crazy, long-distance relationship.

• 1:29:26Lewis Howes?

  They were pen pals back then?

• 1:29:28Steven Gundry?

  Well, we actually, phone, we'd call each other on the phone for an hour every Sunday night because the rates were later, you know, landlines.

• 1:29:35Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:29:36Steven Gundry?

  And then on holidays and things, I'd either go to her folks' house, or they'd go, she'd come to our folks', and my parents got to know each other, we picked out China. And then, I got into medical school at Georgia, the best of Georgia. And she was up here in Santa Barbara, and I flew out, after my first year of medical school. And I said, you know, it's time to fish or cut bait, you know, it's time to get married.

• 1:30:05Lewis Howes?

  This long distance is tough.

• 1:30:06Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, this is tough.

• 1:30:07Lewis Howes?

  We gotta make it a go all in or get out.

• 1:30:08Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, yeah. You know, you need to come to, you know, Georgia. And she said, I hate Georgia, really, you need to come to Santa Barbara. I said, well, there's no medical school. And back then, getting into medical school was hard.

• 1:30:20Lewis Howes?

  Hard, yeah.

• 1:30:21Steven Gundry?

  I mean, it was, thank you.

• 1:30:24Steven Gundry?

  And so, I said, no, I can't do it. And she said, well, you know, it's just not gonna work. So, we said goodbye at the airport, Santa Barbara Airport.

• 1:30:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:30:32Steven Gundry?

  Six weeks later, I was engaged to be married to a woman who I actually did not know up until she...

• 1:30:41Lewis Howes?

  Six weeks later, you're engaged?

• 1:30:42Steven Gundry?

  Talk about...

• 1:30:43Lewis Howes?

  How is that possible?

• 1:30:46Steven Gundry?

  When you wanna get married, you wanna get married.

• 1:30:47Lewis Howes?

  You, so you were looking to get committed, and you, wow.

• 1:30:50Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:51Lewis Howes?

  And so then, that didn't work out after how many years?

• 1:30:54Steven Gundry?

  Twenty years.

• 1:30:55Lewis Howes?

  And then you reconnected?

• 1:30:56Steven Gundry?

  Well, we had two kids, and my, my parents, they said, you gotta leave, it's just awful, and it's, that's, that's beyond that. But, so, I was separated. I was professor at Loyola Linda University, where I became very famous about doing infant heart transplants. And one day, the Today Show picks us up, and Bryant Gumbel's interviewing me and the parents, and I'm going, you know, there's not partic, I do hundreds of these infant heart transplants a year, and this one isn't particularly interesting. I wonder why they picked this one up? And so, I'm on the TV, and who should be watching, from her kitchen in Atlanta, Georgia?

• 1:31:41Steven Gundry?

  But my wife, Penny. And my, no, girl, the woman who I was supposed to be married. And she writes me a nice little note and says, you know, you always told me you were gonna be a famous heart surgeon and congratulations on your success. And I'm sitting in my office in La Melinda and my longtime secretary comes in, she says, this is personal and confidential.

• 1:32:06Lewis Howes?

  Now, you're in California near Santa Barbara.

• 1:32:07Steven Gundry?

  I'm in California. And, you know, and she's in Georgia.

• 1:32:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:11Steven Gundry?

  And so, you know, I opened up the thing and of course, my secretary's staring at me, she says, well. And I said, Barbara, this is the love of my life. You know, what should I do? She says, well, call her, you idiot. And so, I was, I had a case to do in the operating room, so I go down to the OR and I pick up the phone and dial her on a Tuesday. And she's going three, two, one, you know, I'd be calling right about now and pick up the phone. And that was 1995 and we got on an airplane and we've been together ever since.

• 1:32:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:32:45Steven Gundry?

  She raised.

• 1:32:46Lewis Howes?

  Twenty-five years.

• 1:32:47Steven Gundry?

  Twenty-five years. And just celebrated 25 years.

• 1:32:50Lewis Howes?

  You were married for 20 years?

• 1:32:51Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:52Lewis Howes?

  And now you're married for 25 years?

• 1:32:53Steven Gundry?

  And, yeah. And she raised my youngest daughter, saved her life.

• 1:32:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:32:59Steven Gundry?

  And now my youngest daughter, you know, calls her, you know, mom.

• 1:33:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33:04Steven Gundry?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:05Lewis Howes?

  So if you could go back in time.

• 1:33:07Steven Gundry?

  So if I, yeah.

• 1:33:08Lewis Howes?

  Would you have convinced her to come that much more? Would you have said, I'm gonna come and be, or just keep going long distance?

• 1:33:12Steven Gundry?

  Well, you know, she always says, you know, I, I just think I wasn't ready and I don't think I would have been my useful partner to you.

• 1:33:21Lewis Howes?

  Timing is everything, right?

• 1:33:22Steven Gundry?

  And she had a miserable marriage. She canceled, she canceled her wedding three times. She actually would make her dad take out another announcement in the New York Times 'cause she knew I'd read the New York Times.

• 1:33:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:33:34Steven Gundry?

  And that I'd stop it. And, yeah.

• 1:33:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33:38Steven Gundry?

  It was that nutty. But I mean, the minute.

• 1:33:40Lewis Howes?

  You found your way back though.

• 1:33:41Steven Gundry?

  Yeah, I mean, the minute, on the phone, it was like.

• 1:33:44Lewis Howes?

  Timing.

• 1:33:45Steven Gundry?

  It was like, no, I mean, it's like, there was no time.

• 1:33:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33:48Steven Gundry?

  It passed. It was just gone. So, there is a soulmate and do not settle.

• 1:33:56Lewis Howes?

  And we ended up that. Thank you very much, appreciate it.

• 1:34:01Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much, my friend, for listening to this episode. If you found it helpful and inspiring in any way, make sure to share it with your friends. You can post it on your Instagram Stories, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, Facebook. You can text a couple of friends that you know, put it in a WhatsApp group chat, wherever you think it should go. You have the power to change and transform another person's life just by sending them this link. You can copy and paste the link where you're listening to this podcast and text them that, or use the link lewishouse.com/991 and send them right there for the full show notes. More about the research and everything else that we have linked up back on the show notes. And again, if you're a fan of the School of Greatness, but you have yet to click that

• 1:34:42Lewis Howes?

  subscribe button over on Apple Podcast, do your boy a favor and click on that subscribe button right now on Apple Podcast and leave us a five-star review and rating, as that will really help us impact more lives and spread the message of greatness to more people when you do that on Apple Podcast. And if you want inspirational messages from me every single week, we are sending weekly messages to help you stay motivated and on track with your purpose and your mission. Just text the word PODCAST to 614-350-3960 right now and get a text message from me consistently. And I want to leave you with a quote from Henry David Thoreau, who said, "What is called genius is the abundance of life and

• 1:35:25Lewis Howes?

  health." I have been focusing more and more on my health and researching and learning little ways to improve it the older I get, as I want to live a happy, healthy life and also be comfortable and fit and be able to hang out with my kids in the future and grandkids. So this is something I'm always thinking about and always trying to test and learn new ways to be healthier, happier, and complete. And I want to remind you today, you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I'm so grateful for you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.