4 SKILLS You Didn’t Know You Needed to Build UNBREAKABLE HABITS

Have you saved your seats at Summit of Greatness 2024 yet?! Get them before they sell out at lewishowes.com/tickets. I’m a huge fan and proponent of identifying your superpowers and going ALL in on them to achieve your dreams. I’ve always thought that not leaning into your gifts is robbing the world of all the greatness inside you. And today, we’re fortunate to be able to monetize almost any passion we have (if building a business from your passion is a goal of yours). There’s also another kind of superpower though: those we can acquire over time through dedicated practice. In other words, superpowers that not everyone was born with, but everyone can learn. These are essential skills that can help you regardless of what your goals are. And that’s why I’m SO fired up about this special mashup episode! I’ve brought together some of my favorite minds to share with you 4 life-changing skills we ALL can learn to make us powerful beyond belief. In it, you’ll hear from Simon Sinek, James Clear, Katy Milkman, and Jim Kwik. In this episode you will learnHow to master the art of leadership with Simon Sinek. How to create systems instead of just habits to become successful with James Clear. How to set the right type of goals with Katy Milkman. How to double your learning speed with Jim Kwik. Plus, much more. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1652For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Simon Sinek – https://link.chtbl.com/1478-podJames Clear – https://link.chtbl.com/1395-podKaty Milkman – https://link.chtbl.com/1152-podJim Kwik – https://lewishowes.com/podcast/upgrade-your-brain-and-become-limitless-ep-1378/ Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  My name is Lewis Howes. Thanks so much for being here. I want to remind you about the Summit of Greatness, our annual conference happening this September in Los Angeles. With David Goggins, Dr. Joe Dispenza, and many more incredible speakers and performers, there will be so many live attendees there that you can meet with, you can network with, and you can help transform your life. I can't wait to see you at the Summit of Greatness here in Los Angeles.

• 0:27Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back, my friend. This is all about habits. And habits are what set your life up for success. And if you don't develop discipline and strong habits, then you aren't setting up an environment to truly be successful for yourself and in your life. So in this episode, we discuss how to master the art of leadership with Simon Sinek, how to create systems instead of just habits to become successful with James Clear, how to set the right type of goals with Katie Milkman, how to double your learning speed with Jim Quick, and much more. And if you're inspired by this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired by this message as well. Okay, in just a moment, it's time to develop new habits and have the best year ever.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  In this first section, bestselling author of Leaders Eat Last, Simon Sinek shares what it takes to be a strong leader. You're always leading something whether you realize it or not. And if you're not leading an actual company, you're leading your own business, or you're leading your life, and maybe you're leading your family as well. The skill of leadership is so crucial towards success. Let's dive in. So is it one person's responsibility, is it one leader of a company's responsibility to create a feeling of safeness, a feeling of something bigger is happening here, a feeling of...

• 1:47Simon Sinek?

  Psychological safety and all the rest of it?

• 1:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or just like, you know, that I want to be a part of this brand or this mission because it's something bigger than myself, even though maybe somewhere else has better opportunities for food or whatever, fitness center. Is it one person in a business that's responsible? Is it the executive team's responsibility? Is it everyone's responsibility to create that?

• 2:08Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, so it's more efficient when it comes from the top, but it's anyone's responsibility. You know, leadership is a responsibility to people around us. It's not a rank.

• 2:18Simon Sinek?

  You've heard me say this before. I know many people who sit at the highest levels of organizations who are not leaders. Right. They have authority and we do as they tell us because they have authority over us, but we would not follow them. Right. And I know many people, as do you, who sit at lower levels of organizations, who have no formal authority, in that they've made a choice to look after the person to the left of them and look after the person to the right of them, and we would trust them and follow them anywhere. In other words, leadership can come from anywhere within an organization. Yes, we have the right to demand to have better leaders and better leadership in our companies. But when we don't, quitting is not the only option, nor is simply complaining, but undertaking the task of becoming the leader we wish we had. Wow.

• 3:00Simon Sinek?

  You know, anyone at any level can become a student of leadership, and anyone at any level can choose to look after this person and that person and work tirelessly to see that they rise, they become better versions of themselves, and that they show up to work inspired and go home feeling fulfilled and feel safe when they're at work because of us. Yeah. And though the organization itself may be dysfunctional, there are pockets, diamonds in the coal mine. And if you get enough of those pockets, the tail can actually wag the dog. Wow. So that's the great irony of all of this, which is the power belongs to the people. This is just an anthropological truth. Sure. You know, the power always belongs to the people,

• 3:39Simon Sinek?

  which is why dictators bus in crowds to give the appearance that they're popular, or they actually have fake elections to give the appearance that they have a mandate. Dictators do that, right? If the people didn't have the power, dictators wouldn't need rallies and they wouldn't need elections. Right. Right? Dictators fear the people, right? Because people have the power in any population, in any organization. And what keeps dictators and bad leaders' authorities in power is by keeping the people divided. Because if you can create mistrust amongst neighbors...

• 4:17Simon Sinek?

  Then the people can never come together and never depose the leader. And so if you look at any dictatorship that ever existed, there are systems, look at East Germany during the Cold War. You know, we didn't know who was telling on us. So everybody kept to themselves and nobody trusted anybody. Neighbors didn't trust neighbors. And that allows authoritarian organizations to do as they please. The people, when people come together, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not Congress that just woke up one day and decided the Civil Rights Act, that's a pretty good idea. It was thousands and thousands and thousands of people marching, you know, in peaceful protest that put unbelievable pressure on a, on a, on a, on a system to change.

• 5:01Simon Sinek?

  And anything that's ever happened in the world where there's been revolution or revolution, happened this way. Yeah. People always have the power. And this is very true in the business as well. The people have the power. And so if we have mass layoffs on an annualized basis and you create internal competition, what you're doing is you're pitting people against people. Especially if you create a system where we're only incentivized based on individual performance. So in a sales organization, for example, if my income literally depends on how many sales I get and you're gonna, I'm gonna keep stuff away. Why would I help you? Yeah. Right? You keep the people divided, you keep the system that we've got. But as soon as the people come together, good things happen. And so I'm a great believer that those of us

• 5:43Simon Sinek?

  who believe that there's a better way to build a corporate environment, those of us who believe that we're, that it, that, that, that being able to say, I love my job is a right. It's a, it's not a privilege. It's not for a lucky few who get to go home at the end of the day and say, I love my job. Right. It's not some, some lottery that you win. You know, you go to a dinner party and you ask somebody, do you like your job? And they go, I love my job. And we go, oh, you're so lucky. They didn't win anything. Right. It's not luck. Right. We are entitled. It is our, it is our God-given right to love going to work. Why is that? Because I think human beings are tribal animals and all of us want to feel inspired.

• 6:26Simon Sinek?

  We all wanna feel like we're a part of something bigger than ourselves. We all wanna have some sort of physical and psychological safety, whether it's at home or work. You know, we fear war, we fear crime, and we wanna feel psychologically safe at home. We want safety. And at the end of the day, every human being on the planet wants the feeling that I can provide for myself and my family. There's nobility in work. You know, handouts don't work and they destroy the human ego. You know, there's nobility in being able to do a hard day's worth of work and collect a paycheck. And when I do really well, somebody says, "Good job, here's a little extra for you." Because you're a valuable member of the tribe. And we wanna make sure that we're incentivizing the behavior that you're doing, and the behavior

• 7:10Simon Sinek?

  you're doing is you're taking care of something bigger than yourself.

• 7:14Lewis Howes?

  Before, there was corporate jobs. What were people doing? Did people feel entitled with, or, sorry, not entitled, but they feel like they were all working on their own before then? They were doing their own craft, they were doing stuff in the family, in the tribe? What was happening before?

• 7:30Simon Sinek?

  So, scale breaks things. Human beings, Homo sapiens, been on this planet, hmm, 50,000 years-ish, right? And for 40 of those 50,000 years, literally, four-fifths of our time on this planet, we lived in populations that were never larger than about 150 people. And we didn't all live on top of each other, and they were communities. And the way we survived in these dangerous times was we took care of each other. You know, we contributed. Some people built things, some people hunted the things, some people made food, some people, we took care of the kids, we made their families, and the wealth was distributed. You know, there's evidence they found in anthropological digs where the best cuts of meat, which you would think would go to all the alphas, because I'm the strongest, I

• 8:15Simon Sinek?

  get to choose the food first, you know? The best cuts of meat, which they can tell by the bones, are actually distributed amongst the tribe. In other words, the alphas, the leaders, yes, they were entitled to eat first, that's just the way we are, we're hierarchical animals. Nobody has a problem that somebody... More senior, nobody has visceral contempt for the idea that somebody more senior in an organization makes more money than me. We're okay with our alphas getting better treatment. Nobody has a problem with celebrities, you know. Making more money and getting famous. Getting a table in the restaurant that we have to wait for. We're okay with it, you know? It's one of the reasons we all try and increase our standing in society by doing good.

• 8:57Simon Sinek?

  Hopefully you do it in a good way, not just getting internet famous, which is getting fame without any contribution to society, different subject. Right. But it was shared hardships, shared sacrifice for the good of each other. That doesn't mean there was an ego and selfishness, of course, but at the end of the day, we needed each other. And then about 10,000 or 12,000 years ago, when we started farming, we didn't need to travel anymore, we could stay put, and we could also sustain much larger populations than about 150 because we could amass resources. This also allowed for ruling classes and intelligentsia and things like that. You can have an entire group of people who didn't hunt and didn't gather, they just governed, you know?

• 9:42Simon Sinek?

  Like it's a ruling class, that's what it is. Or they just thought about. They'd be philosophers. Like we had the resources for that, and we were okay with it. And it's a good thing, because look at the advancements in modern society in the past 10,000 years, simply because you didn't have to go toil in the field, you could actually go invent something. Could innovate. You could innovate, right? So it's a good thing, but scale breaks things for human beings. We were not naturally made for living in large populations, and so the way it works best is when we organize into smaller groups, which is why hierarchy matters, which is why leadership training matters. So you asked about is the top person responsible?

• 10:22Simon Sinek?

  No, the top person is responsible for taking care of the people in their direct responsibility and ensuring that they are charged with and incentivized to take care of the people with their direct responsibility, who are charged with and incentivized to take care of the people in their direct responsibility, and the people on the front lines who are actually doing all the work feel taken care of and are happy to contribute. There's a marine that I know. Who's a marine general who says the way he can judge the quality of a lieutenant is he listens, he listens to how the troops talk about their lieutenant. When he's not around. When, is it the lieutenant? Or is it our lieutenant? They take possession of their leader. Wow. Right?

• 11:07Simon Sinek?

  That's our lieutenant. Right? Versus that's, it's always the Colonel. It's never our Colonel. It's always the Colonel because there's no relationship. It's too distant. Right? So as soon as we take possession, emotional possession of our leaders, there's a, there's a sign of devotion and mutual trust. But that relationship starts with how the leader leads. Yes, we have a responsibility to give back, but we call you leader not because you have the rank. We call you leader because you took the risk to trust first. We, you took, we call you leader because you took the risk to build the relationship first. You took the risk to create the circle of safety first. You took the risk to go headfirst towards the vision first. That's why we call you leader. Because you undertook an element of risk.

• 11:52Simon Sinek?

  You literally lead. You went first. Right. Right? Nothing to do with rank. Into the unknown. Into the unknown, whatever it is. Right? And, and then we have a responsibility to go, I'm coming. I support you. There's good followership too. Not to, you always do this to me whenever we get together. You get me, you know, the best leaders are actually the best followers. In what ways? What do you mean? The best leaders never think that they're the final, that the buck stops with them. They always believe that they're in service to something bigger than themselves. And even if that leader, that person in leadership position gets to the tippy top of whatever organization, they still feel that they're subordinate to something even bigger. Right?

• 12:34Simon Sinek?

  So, uh, uh, the Pope does, still thinks that he's in service to something bigger than, than him. Right? A CEO of a visionary organization feels that they are still beholden to and, and following a vision bigger than them. So the best leaders actually are the best followers, even if they're at the highest levels of, of the organization, they're still in service. Right. It may not be to a person, but to a cause. To a cause, an idea, a vision. Whatever it is, there's still some sort of something that they're beholden to and they're devoted to and they're in service to. So, so followership is a thing. And.

• 13:15Simon Sinek?

  Not to belabor the Marine point, but you know Marines, when they evaluate their leaders, they're looking for good leadership and good followership. So for example, when you go through OCS, Officer Candidate's School Selection, when somebody's for a task, you know, chosen to be the leader of that group for that task, the Marines are watching the others as well. So they're looking to see that everybody's contributing ideas. They're looking to see that that leader takes in those ideas, but is decisive. And they're looking to see that the members of the group, if their idea isn't picked, they still give their all to see that the leader's idea is successful.

• 14:00Simon Sinek?

  And if it fails, give it their all to pick up the pieces and see what they can do. As opposed to going, "I told you, should've gone my way." Right, right. "I was right." Or sabotaging because their idea didn't get picked. So they go all in. So good followership is as important as good leadership. That we respect that when a decision is made, we will give our blood, sweat and tears to see that the decision our leaders have made will be successful. And if it fails, we will help pick up the pieces because that's the deal. What if you don't believe in the idea? You may not believe in the choice, but you better believe in the idea. Gotcha. The great idea, but the choice of getting there. And that's just part of life. Yeah.

• 14:44Simon Sinek?

  You know, heck, man, I've disagreed with my own ideas. You know, I've been pig-headed and dogmatic about, "This is the way we gotta go." And everybody is wonderful and... And then 10 years later, you're like, "What?" It kind of like falls apart and they're just like, "Yeah, I kinda screwed the pooch on that one." But I take accountability. Yeah. You know, or we find in the middle, somebody goes, "Hey, if we do this, we can probably be more successful," and we pivot. There has to be, at the decision-making ranks, there has to be a humility that the ideas don't always have to come from me. Right. Bob Gaylor, the 5th Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, has the best definition of humility I've ever heard. He said, "Don't confuse humility with meekness. Humility is being open to the ideas of others."

• 15:28Simon Sinek?

  So, you know, it's not about like... Aw shucks, that's not humility. You know, you and I know some remarkable leaders, people of great power and authority. And they have huge egos.

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 15:41Simon Sinek?

  You know, they know they're good and they don't mind talking about how good they are. But when somebody says, "Hey, I got an idea," they lean in like they're little kids. They go, "Let's hear it." You know, I'm looking at some of the photographs on your wall and some of the folks that I know here, they have an insatiable curiosity for ideas. And even though they're unbelievably accomplished, if you have something to share with them, they want to talk about it. They want to hear about it. That's humiliating to me, you know? So it's not this, you know, it's not me, it's, you know.

• 16:10Simon Sinek?

  Self-confidence is a good thing. Thinking you're better than everyone else, that's unhealthy.

• 16:14Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, that's good, yeah.

• 16:14Simon Sinek?

  You know, thinking you're good is healthy. Thinking you're better than others is unhealthy. Humility is not thinking that you're not good.

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  How do you have a...

• 16:26Simon Sinek?

  It's not thinking that you're...

• 16:27Lewis Howes?

  How do you develop self-confidence? We're kind of going off here now, but I'm... This is a topic I'm really passionate about right now. I believe self-doubt is one of the biggest killers to anyone's dreams.

• 16:38Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 16:39Lewis Howes?

  So how does someone develop self-confidence? And sustain it with the ever-going changes and stresses and uncertainties that always come up?

• 16:48Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 16:48Lewis Howes?

  Once you reach a certain level, there's a new uncertainty.

• 16:52Simon Sinek?

  No. So I think it's ironic that we call it self-confidence. Because I don't, for one, think it comes from the inside. I think our self-confidence comes from the outside, right?

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  You mean, that's the wrong way of going about it? Or you think that's where it comes from in general?

• 17:09Simon Sinek?

  We are being misdirected by the name. When we say, "Build your self-confidence," that's the instruction of saying, "Go inside. Look inside oneself." But I think that's, I think that's, I think that's a false direction. Children aren't born self-confident. Their confidence is built from their parents and their friends and their teachers. Where they're rewarded when they do well and they're pushed when they fail. When they can do better, simply, you know, we know this. That simply telling kids that they're great all the time actually doesn't build self-confidence. It actually does the total opposite. Right. Right?

• 17:50Simon Sinek?

  And I, for one, I can tell you, in my own experience, my own self-confidence, a hundred percent comes from the relationships that I have. It's not some deep internal fortitude, you know? A world famous trapeze artist is not gonna try a brand-new, death-defying act for the first time without a net.

• 18:15Simon Sinek?

  So it's the people in my life.

• 18:19Simon Sinek?

  It's when I do doubt myself that somebody says, "You got this." When somebody says, "I believe in you." When somebody says, "No matter what happens, whether it succeeds or fails, I'm gonna be by your side." That's when I have the confidence to do difficult things. Wow. Right? I don't have some natural battery that I, that just...

• 18:42Simon Sinek?

  Right. You know, that, to me, is bravado. Yeah. I don't know if that's self-confidence, you know? You know? Being a huge risk taker is not an indication of self-confidence to me, you know? Jumping out of a plane and jumping out of a plane with a parachute are two different things. Right. Right.

• 19:02Simon Sinek?

  To me, self-confidence is measured and there should be a degree of doubt. But I think true self-confidence, belief in oneself and belief in one's cause, you know, I could not do the things that I'm doing and I would not have the strength to have made the sacrifices that I've made or continue to wake up on a daily basis to drive, to spread this message, if I were alone. And so when we talk about building one's self-confidence, I think the mistake that we make is that we look inside. I think the reality is when we're trying to build our self-confidence, we should be looking to our friends. We should be nursing our relationships. When I'm looking to build my self-confidence, the question is, who around me do I need to take care of?

• 19:45Simon Sinek?

  You know, the way we build our self-confidence is by helping somebody else build theirs. Right. It's an act of, we will build our confidence with an act of service. So I'll tell you a true, a true story. So I did an experiment. I love doing experiments in my own life. Yeah, me too. You know, I had mad thoughts. I'm like, well, let's try, let's try this one out. So I have a very dear friend who has stuck with me through thick and thin, who she is absolutely profoundly one of the reasons that I am who I am today, right? And I have my confidence in large part because of her, right? She's one of a small group of people who I, I look at and say, mm-hmm, yep, yep, good friend, right? She was struggling, like seriously struggling. Oh, let me take a step back.

• 20:29Simon Sinek?

  So we decided that we were gonna, uh, um, she, look, she was, she was struggling. She goes through, she was going through some hard, hard things in her life. Career wasn't going the way she wanted. Her personal relationship was struggling. There was, there was a lot of rough. She was lacking confidence. There was a lot of rough. She was lacking confidence. Yeah. And we would get together on a regular basis and I would attempt to coach her, you know? And she'd feel great for the hour after she left me, and then it would very quickly go back to normal. And we'd get back together and I would coach her. And she felt great for the hour after she left me, and then it would go back to normal. And I wouldn't, I can't say that there was some profound change being made in her.

• 21:14Simon Sinek?

  So I had a harebrained idea. I went to her and I said, I need your help. I said, I'm struggling. I don't have a coach that I love and trust. You've known me for years. I trust you with everything. I feel unbelievably safe around you. Can you put together a program? And can you coach me? I think you're good at it. And it wasn't reciprocal. It wasn't, I'll coach you, you coach me. I said, it's just, I need your help because I'm struggling. It was legit. It wasn't like I was just making stuff up. You were stressed. It was legit. I could do with the help and I trusted her to help me. And something profound started to happen. Over the course of just a few weeks, it wasn't even for a few months. But over the course of a few weeks, she started to gain way more confidence.

• 21:59Simon Sinek?

  Her career started to really move in a more positive direction. Her relationship firmed up. And the more that she was in service to me, the more that she grew herself. So I think self-confidence, I wish we didn't call it self-confidence. Because like I said, I think it gives a false direction. The way we build confidence is with. You know, con means with, doesn't it? Interesting. So I have no idea the etymology of confidence. That's interesting. Just making stuff up here. But con means with. The, I mean, to confide.

• 22:41Simon Sinek?

  Let's look this up because fidelity is something to do with truth. So confide, right? Yeah, look it up with the etymology of confidence. To confide is to people, like a conspiracy, is a co-whisper. That's what conspiracy is, is a co-whisper. So confidence is co-fidelity. Right. So let's see if the instinct is matched by the etymology of the word. And which if it isn't, I'm still okay with it. What does it say? So it comes from late Middle English, Confident Translations, Origins and Meaning. Here we go. On Late NMLD Dictionaries, good luck with it. Where does the word come from?

• 23:26Simon Sinek?

  It's about trust or reliance. But what's the actual etymology of the word? Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and waste everybody's time. But it comes from, "cum fidre." And fidre means to trust. To trust yourself or trust other people. So cum, what does cum mean? It means with.

• 23:50Simon Sinek?

  It means with trust.

• 23:53Lewis Howes?

  It could be with trust with yourself.

• 23:55Simon Sinek?

  I think it's been missed. That's my point. I think it's been, I think it's like a conspiracy require, a conspiracy requires two people. You cannot have a conspiracy with one person. It's a co-whispering. You know, you commit the crime of conspiracy when you tell someone something and you're both in on it. So I think confidality, confidence is the same thing. I think it's, I think it's at least two people who undertake the task of, of, of trust and reliance.

• 24:23Lewis Howes?

  So she was coaching you and you saw a change with over a few weeks of her confidence. And her belief in herself.

• 24:31Simon Sinek?

  Her belief in herself grew when she was in service to helping me.

• 24:39Simon Sinek?

  To helping me. And so, and so that goes back to the root of the question. How do you build your self-confidence?

• 24:45Lewis Howes?

  Or how do you overcome self-doubt?

• 24:46Simon Sinek?

  How do you overcome self-doubt? Help someone else overcome self-doubt.

• 24:49Lewis Howes?

  I love that. I love that.

• 24:50Simon Sinek?

  You overcome self-doubt by helping, like, and it's not a selfish thing. I'm only helping you so I can. You have to genuinely love and commit to the person, this person that you're helping. You have to genuinely care about their success and their confidence and, and, and their lot in life.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:09Lewis Howes?

  In this next section, bestselling author of Atomic Habits, James Clear, talks about how you do not rise to the level of your goals, but you fall to the level of your systems. And how that shift in how you go about your life can make all the difference. You said this, you said you do not rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems.

• 25:32Lewis Howes?

  What are the systems you created to be successful beyond those kind of core habits right there?

• 25:36Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. So this is a really good question. I think first I just want to talk a little bit about that, that point, that you do not rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. What do I mean by that?

• 25:47James Clear?

  Often when we set about to change something or to achieve something, the first step is almost always setting a goal. And this is coming from someone like I was very goal oriented for a long time, right? Like I would set, yeah, I would set goals for the things I wanted to do in sports, the goals for the grades I wanted in class, the goals for how much money I wanted to make in my business. And sometimes I would achieve those, but then sometimes I wouldn't. And so I had this question like, well, clearly I'm setting goals for both. So like that can't be the thing that determines it. And you see this a lot, that the, the winners and losers in a particular domain often have the same goals. Like every Olympian wants to win a gold medal.

• 26:23Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 26:23James Clear?

  Every job candidate wants to get the job. So if the winners and the losers have same, the same goal, then the goal cannot be the thing that distinguishes the two. And the thing that distinguishes them is the process of the system behind the goal. And this is also important because achieving a goal often only changes your life for the moment. It's like, you know, say you're, um, just take like a simple example. Say you have a messy room, you know, and you set, you get motivated and you set the goal to clean your room. Well, you can do that in an hour and then you have a clean room. But if you don't change the sloppy habits that led to a messy room in the first place, then you just end up with a dirty room again.

• 26:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:58James Clear?

  So it's like treating a symptom without treating the cause. And habits are a better solution in that case, because if you fix the inputs, the outputs fix themselves automatically, right? You don't have to fight to have a clean room if you have clean habits. And I think that that's true in a larger sense as well, right? People want outcomes. They want to earn more money or lose weight or be more productive or reduce stress. But the outcome is not the thing that needs to change. It's the system that precedes it.

• 27:26Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So give me the, let's bust the myth of how many days it takes to set a habit. Because there's 14 days, 28 days, 60 days, a year.

• 27:36James Clear?

  Right.

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  If you do something every single day, and maybe it changes for each person, but what's the science or the? The statistics say about how long it takes to form a positive or negative habit, I guess.

• 27:48James Clear?

  So 21 days is the thing you hear all the time, 30 days, 100 days, whatever. Right now, 66 days is making the rounds is the latest.

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  I saw that in another book. What was that book?

• 27:56James Clear?

  Well, there was one study done that found that 66 days was the average for how long it takes. And as a rule of thumb, I don't think it's terrible. Like you should remind yourself, yeah, this is going to be months of work. It's not just going to be something quick. But even within that study, the range was quite wide. So if you did something simple, like drink a glass of water at lunch each day, it would take like three weeks. If you did something more difficult, like go for a run after work every day, that would be like seven or eight months. But I think actually that question to begin with is sort of a, there's like a broken mentality behind it.

• 28:27Lewis Howes?

  The wrong question.

• 28:28James Clear?

  Yeah, it is. Because if you ask that question, the implicit assumption is when do I have to stop working? Or when is this done?

• 28:36Lewis Howes?

  And is it automatic after a certain period of time?

• 28:39James Clear?

  Well, the honest answer to how long it takes to build a new habit is forever. Because if you stop, then it's no longer a habit.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  It's a constant choice and a decision, right?

• 28:48James Clear?

  I think people often look at habits as like a finish line to be crossed, but it's actually a lifestyle to be lived. And if you look at it as a lifestyle change, then you're saying, okay, what's something small and sustainable I can stick to, right? What's something that can actually last over time? So it is true that, and you can actually map this through research, that a habit will become more automatic with practice. But this reveals another important point, which is that there's nothing about the amount of time elapsed that leads to habits being built. You could practice something once in 30 days, or you could practice it 1,000 times. What actually leads to a habit becoming automatic and becoming learned and ingrained is repetition. So the phrase that I like to use is not 21 days to 30 days, but put in your reps.

• 29:33James Clear?

  I mean, that's the real thing is you need to, you need to practice. And if you put in your reps, then your brain starts to automate how that process works.

• 29:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What makes you an expert on habits?

• 29:42James Clear?

  Oh man.

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  Based on lots of other people that are talking about habits. Why are you talking about it differently? And what have you discovered that's different than everyone else?

• 29:49James Clear?

  Okay, so two questions there. So the first one is expertise. And I think that, and I've said this many times before, I'm just going through this with everybody else. I consider my readers my peers in the sense that we're all just trying things out. The only difference is I write about what I learn and share it each week. But we're all just learning along the way. Early on, I had a feeling like that. It was like, who am I, you know, I'm just a guy. Who am I to write about this? And I had a friend tell me, the way you develop expertise is by writing about it every week. So I wrote a new article about habits every Monday and Thursday for three years. And that was how I developed the expertise on the topic was by writing about it.

• 30:25Lewis Howes?

  You did research.

• 30:26James Clear?

  Right.

• 30:26Lewis Howes?

  And you said, here's what I found. Here's what I tried. Here's what worked, what didn't work.

• 30:30James Clear?

  It's a combination of me reading the scientific literature and reading the research, and then trying to distill the practical insights from that and testing things out in my own life as a weightlifter, a travel photographer, a writer, an entrepreneur, and seeing what that looks like. And then the two together. And I think you need both. Like, I don't want to be some new age version of an academic who's in an ivory tower, just like theorizing about ideas. It's different what it looks like to put ideas into practice, right? Like, imagine you're a peak performance coach and you show up to coach like an NBA team. And these guys are like, dude, you need to step on the court if you know what, right? To see what it's actually like. So you need to have both to have a firm understanding of that.

• 31:07Lewis Howes?

  So you're researching and you were applying it into your life? And what was the second part about?

• 31:12James Clear?

  The second question, which I think is probably the more interesting one, which is what makes my angle different? Or what makes this different?

• 31:19Lewis Howes?

  Than every other book out there about habits?

• 31:22James Clear?

  So you can broadly put books about habits into two categories. The first book, the first category is what I'll call motivation models. So motivation models are about what sparks a behavior? How do you get started? How do you get motivated? The second category is what I'll call reinforcement models. So how does a habit stick? How does it last? Why do certain behaviors get reinforced? And sometimes books will touch on one, but focus primarily on the other. A lot of the time, they'll just kind of live in separate worlds. That's what I would say is happening in like the self-improvement space. Then you have the academic space. So psychology or neuroscience or whatever. And a lot of those books are focused on the why, but not the how. They'll tell you.

• 32:07James Clear?

  They'll tell you why something happens, why a particular neuron fires, why a particular biological process works the way it does, but they don't tell you how to implement it in your daily life. And so what I wanted to do was try to combine the two. Why and how? Yes, a why, a book that is both why and how. Why do habits form the way they do? Why are they important? And then how do they actually work? And my hope is that Atomic Habits was able to do that largely because of the framework that I put together. So in the book, I lay out these four stages that all habits go through. And I felt like we needed a new model because most of the models right now are either a motivation model or a reinforcement model, but not both.

• 32:48James Clear?

  And you need to understand what both sparks a habit and what makes a habit stick. Maintains it, yes. Yes, if you want to be able to understand how they work and how to make them last. And what are those four frameworks? So the first stage of every habit is a cue. The second stage is a craving or some kind of prediction that your brain makes. I'll give you an example of these in a second. The third stage is the response, and then the fourth stage is the reward. So you walk into a, the question I had that, that no model I could find could solve in any good way or explain in any good way was, why can the same person respond to the same cue in a different way? So let's say you get into the habit of going to the gym at five o'clock every day, but then sometimes work gets busy and you don't go to the gym at five o'clock.

• 33:33James Clear?

  Current models don't explain that very well because it's like, well, the cue is five, you should be going to the gym right now. It says you, the routine follows automatically after the cue. Or why, why does someone walk into the kitchen and see a plate of cookies and then they automatically want to eat it? But you could just as imagine, just as easily imagine that you just got done eating dinner in the other room and you're stuffed and you're full and you walk in, you see a plate of cookies, you're like, I'm stuffed, I don't want to eat anything. So what's going on there? And I think these four stages explain it, which is You see the cue, or you experience a cue, and then your craving or your prediction differs based on your current state. So the way that you interpret the cues in your life is contingent upon the current state that you're in.

• 34:16Lewis Howes?

  The way you're feeling.

• 34:17James Clear?

  Right. And also other things like your beliefs or your identity, the social group that you're part of, right? So like if you're in a different group, then maybe you interpret things in a different way. You know, you could imagine one group, they practice a particular religion, they walk into a butcher shop and see pork, and they're like, oh, we can't eat that. Another person walks in and they're like, oh yeah, I'll have a pork sandwich, because it's obvious and easy and right there. So what you choose is contingent upon how you interpret the cues in your life.

• 34:44Lewis Howes?

  How do we change what we interpret?

• 34:47James Clear?

  Yes, good question. All right. So this is a key point in the book, which is that social norms, society leans heavily on us all. So if you, there are just broad examples of this.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  Family pressure, religious pressure, media pressure.

• 35:03James Clear?

  All kinds of stuff.

• 35:04Lewis Howes?

  Peer pressure, everything else.

• 35:06James Clear?

  Let's say, so just some broad examples. You walk into an elevator and you turn around to face the front. You have a job interview and you wear a suit and tie, or a dress, or something nice. There's no reason it has to be that way, right? Like you could face the back of the elevator, you could wear a swimsuit to a job interview, but you don't do that because it violates the shared norms of the group, right? It violates the shared expectations of what that society has. But that's not, that's true not only in a broad sense that we're part of these tribes, like big tribes, you know, what it means to be a Christian, or to be American, or to be Australian, or whatever. But it's also true in the small tribes that we belong to. What it means to be a neighbor on this street,

• 35:47James Clear?

  or a member of your local CrossFit gym, or to volunteer for a local organization. All of those tribes, all of those groups that you belong to, have a set of shared expectations, a set of shared norms. And the key, if you want to build habits that last, if you want to change the way that you interpret cues, is to join a group where you're, the desired behavior is the normal behavior, right? Like there are, there are plenty of people who they want to work out, but going to the gym feels like a lot to them. It feels hard, feels like sacrifice. But there are also people who go to the gym every week and it's just normal. It doesn't feel like an obligation. That's the desired behavior is the normal behavior.

• 36:26Lewis Howes?

  Their lifestyle.

• 36:26James Clear?

  Right. Same thing for musicians, you know, like if you want to learn an instrument, hang out with people who play all the time, you know, like if you hang out with a bunch of musicians, it's like, well, yeah, we do all day. Yeah, we play four days a week, if we play seven days a week. Because it just happens. That's, that's what the tribe does. The caveat to this, and the thing that I don't see people mention a lot, is that the reason social norms influence our behavior so much is because we want to belong to the tribe. We want to be friends with those people. And so we don't want to lose the friendship or lose belonging over violating the norms.

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're not going to hang out with a bunch of vegans and have pork.

• 36:59James Clear?

  Right.

• 36:59Lewis Howes?

  And just like be the only one eating that.

• 37:01James Clear?

  You won't hang out with them for very long because you're not going to be friends with them anymore.

• 37:04Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 37:04James Clear?

  They'll kick you out.

• 37:05Lewis Howes?

  So you want to rise to the standard of that group, of that community.

• 37:08James Clear?

  So the key, I think, is to join a group where your desired behavior is a normal behavior and you already have something else in common with that group. So Steve Kam is a good example of this. So like Steve runs Nerd Fitness, right? And all these people want to get in shape who are coming into his community, but they also love Star Wars or Batman or Spider-Man or, you know, all these other things that nerds are into. And if you show up, it can be intimidating to want to get in shape or, you know, work out the first time, but if you can connect with the group over your mutual love of Star Wars, then you're like, oh, well, I'm friends with these people. And now I also want to pick up those other habits with them because I want to belong with the group because we're already friends. And so I think you can apply that methodology to most new tribes that you join.

• 37:52James Clear?

  Don't just join a new tribe because they have the desired behavior. Also try to find a way that you can overlap with them. Find some shared context.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  Some other stuff too, yeah.

• 37:59James Clear?

  That you can bond over and then it's easier to adopt the habits.

• 38:02Lewis Howes?

  Musicians that like to be healthy.

• 38:04James Clear?

  Yeah, right.

• 38:04Lewis Howes?

  If you want to do both, right? It's like finding that even subgroup.

• 38:07James Clear?

  It's like, hey, we love, you know, we love playing music. And then also you're going to start eating better because we all want to eat healthy.

• 38:12Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah. Interesting. Okay, so that's the second part, the cue and then the desire habits, right? The craving.

• 38:19James Clear?

  Cue, craving, response, reward.

• 38:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay, what's the response?

• 38:22James Clear?

  So, this is mostly about making it easy. So, this is the habit itself, and the easier a habit is, the less friction there's associated with a habit, the more likely you're gonna be to do it. So, the way that I like to describe this, imagine you have like a hose, right? And there's a bend in the middle. There's a little bit of water trickling out. If you want to increase the amount of water going through the hose, you have two options. You could either crank up the valve and force more water through, or you could just remove the bend and let it flow through naturally. And a lot of the time, advice is centered on cranking up the valve. It's like you need to try harder, you need grit, you need perseverance, you need motivation, you need to overcome the obstacles in your life. And all those things are fine, but I think they're all short-term solutions. You might be able to do that for a day or a week,

• 39:05James Clear?

  but I've never consistently seen someone stick to positive habits in a negative environment. It's really hard to fight that day in and day out. So, the solution, I think, is to reduce friction. And there are a ton of ways you can do this. One way is just to scale the habit down, make it as easy as possible. So, people have heard things like this before, start small, small steps, whatever. But even when you know you should start small, it's still really easy to start too big. So, you know, say you want to get in shape and you're like, alright, I want to run a couple days a week, but I know I should start small, so I'll only run for 15 minutes. But even that is like way bigger than what I'm talking about. I mean, it should be so small that you, in the book, I call it the two-minute rule, that you should downscale any habit to fit within two minutes.

• 39:49James Clear?

  So, it's like, alright, I want to go for a run three days a week. My habit is, I put on my running shoes and I step out the door. Anything else that happens after that is just bonus.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  Is a success.

• 40:00James Clear?

  Now, sometimes people resist that because they're like, well, this sounds kind of like a mental trick, right? Like, I know the real goal isn't just to put my shoes on, I know the real goal is to go for a run. So, if you feel that way, my suggestion would be... Only do the first two minutes for the first few weeks because what you need to do is master the art of showing up. Like I had a, I had a reader who ended up losing over a hundred pounds. And one of the things that he did was he went to the gym, but he wasn't allowed to stay for longer than five minutes. So he would show up, be there, do like half an exercise, five minutes would go, he'd leave. He did this for like six weeks.

• 40:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 40:34James Clear?

  Now, it sounds ridiculous. It sounds silly because

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  Like why just workout for a half hour?

• 40:39James Clear?

  Yeah, yeah. But what he was doing was mastering the art of showing up. And a habit must be established before it can be improved, right? If you don't establish the habit, there's nothing to optimize. If you're not showing up at the gym every day, you don't even, who cares about what workout you're doing? You're not even there.

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  Don't start running an hour a day if you've never run in a long time.

• 40:57James Clear?

  Be the person who shows up and puts their running shoes on every day before you worry about how far you're running, what kind of workout you're doing and all that type of stuff.

• 41:05Lewis Howes?

  Establish the art of showing up first before going all in on the desired goal you want.

• 41:12James Clear?

  I think that's right. I mean, you can find examples of people who flip a switch and transform their lives or have an epiphany and do it overnight. But I think that it's rare. I think that the more sustainable strategy, the more reliable strategy is to scale it down to the first two minutes, focus on that, establish it, master the art of showing up, and then go from there. So really, you should like, usually when people think about building better habits, they optimize for the finish line, right? It's like, how much weight do I need to lose? How much money do I need to make? You know, how, when can I finish this book? It's all focused on the result. But I think instead, if you optimize for the starting line, make it as easy as possible to start, scale it down, organize your environment. So all that stuff is set up. This is another strategy for making it easy, which is that you can prime your environment to make the future

• 41:57James Clear?

  action easier, right? Like if you chop up a bunch of vegetables and fruit on Sunday, it's now easier to have a healthy snack during the week. If you set your workout clothes out the night before, it's now easier to get into the workout the next day. But doing all that stuff to make it easy to show up, that is probably the more important piece early on. There's also like all There are all these logistical details for building a habit that nobody thinks about in the beginning.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  Like what?

• 42:22James Clear?

  Well, like, take the example of my reader who went to the gym. It's like, okay, what gym are you gonna go to? How are you gonna get there? Are you going by yourself or are you gonna go with a friend? Do you need to?

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  What time are you gonna go?

• 42:34James Clear?

  Yeah, what time are you gonna go? Are you gonna have your own water bottle? Or is there a water fountain at the gym? And that stuff sounds like silly and small, but when someone's starting...

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah.

• 42:43James Clear?

  The fact that like, oh, the gym doesn't have a water fountain and I always forget to bring my own. That's enough friction for someone to quit. So by focusing on just the first two minutes, you figure all that stuff out. And then, once you've got that piece mastered, now you can worry about how long the workout is and what program to do and all that stuff.

• 43:00Lewis Howes?

  So figuring out the logistics first is an important step.

• 43:03James Clear?

  I think that's something that just comes naturally with scaling a habit down. You figure out what's required to show up. Because you're not worried about the result or the outcome, or how long you worked out, or judging yourself for, you know, for running 30 minutes when you should have run 45 or whatever.

• 43:17Lewis Howes?

  Got it, okay. So this is the response still?

• 43:19James Clear?

  Right.

• 43:19Lewis Howes?

  Okay, and what's the fourth?

• 43:21James Clear?

  The fourth one, and this is crucial for getting a habit to stick, is the reward or the outcome. So every behavior is followed by some kind of outcomes, just basic cause and effect. And if the immediate outcome is favorable, is enjoyable, you have a reason to repeat it in the future. It's kind of like...

• 43:39Lewis Howes?

  Donuts.

• 43:39James Clear?

  Yeah, exactly, right? It's like that example. If you, if you, if you feel good, if you feel satisfied right after you do something, then it's like this positive emotional signal and it's like, yeah, I should do this again.

• 43:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:52James Clear?

  So you can see this, actually, business is a really interesting example with this. There are a lot of products, and some of the most successful products have some type of immediate satisfaction that is layered into them. So toothpaste is a very common example. There's no reason that toothpaste needs to taste like mint. But it does, because the minty flavor and the refreshingness of it, it makes your, it gives your mouth this clean feel. It's more satisfying, so you have a reason to do it again in the future. I heard an interesting one recently about car manufacturers, that some of them are adding a fake guttural roar to the car or the truck when you press the accelerator, because it just adds to the actual natural sound of the engine, so it makes it more satisfying to step on the gas and to drive the car.

• 44:32James Clear?

  So there are a variety of examples like this, but if you can add, and the key is it needs to be immediate, right? So like, this is... In the book, I refer to this as the cardinal rule of behavior change, which is behaviors that are immediately rewarded get repeated. Behaviors that are immediately punished get avoided. And it's really about the speed of how quickly you feel successful. If it feels good, you have a reason to do it again.

• 44:56Lewis Howes?

  Is that why video games do so well?

• 44:59James Clear?

  Video games are masters at this. They're masters at it. So they're masters actually at a variety of aspects related to habit formation. So one is they're really good at this immediate satisfaction. There are all kinds of things. You're actually constantly getting feedback in a video game. Even if you're just running, you hear the pitter patter of the steps.

• 45:19Lewis Howes?

  It's gratifying.

• 45:21James Clear?

  The jingles of like picking up another power up or, you know, seeing a kill or something like that, whatever the game is, you're always getting constant feedback. Sound, things that are on screen, they're really good at dripping out. Watching the, the score increase in the top corner, that is immediate feedback. So they have all these different ways of making you feel satisfied. And when you see that progress, you have a reason to continue in the future. This is one of the, one of the most effective forms of immediate satisfaction is progress. Soon as you feel progress, you have a reason to continue. It feels really good to see that you're making headway.

• 45:57Lewis Howes?

  In this section, bestselling author of How to Change, Katie Milkman shares another approach to setting goals so that you can actually keep up your motivation. For me, it's so ingrained in me that if you want to accomplish your goals, you've got to schedule these things you've got to do on a daily basis and make it like.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Break it down. What's the daily goal?

• 46:16Lewis Howes?

  What's the daily thing?

• 46:17Speaker 03

  When are you going to do it? What's going to cue you to do it? Who's going to watch you do it?

• 46:20Lewis Howes?

  Everything, everything. What's at stake for you? What's, you know, at stake for other people? What's the higher purpose that if you don't do this, who are you going to be hurting?

• 46:27Speaker 03

  And who is literally holding you accountable, right? You've got your coach involved. So those are the kinds of things.

• 46:32Lewis Howes?

  So structure is one of the leading. Academic, the research that shows which will help you get more results.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yes, and there's so many pieces of that and like each one of them we could unpack and talk about.

• 46:43Lewis Howes?

  Please break it down.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  You know, okay, a big one is too often people say, I just have this big goal, you know, this big. I think if I set a big audacious goal and that, by the way, that's good. It's good to set stretch goals, but then you've got to break it down like into the, you know, what's, what are you going to do this week? What are you going to do today? What are those component parts? And people get a lot further research by Alvin Dura, the late Alvin Dura of Stanford, great thinker, sort of did some of the pioneering work on this. We just did a field experiment where we tested with thousands of people who wanted to be volunteering 200 hours a year and they had committed to that goal. And we found that just sending them reminders not to volunteer 200 hours a year,

• 47:26Speaker 03

  but to volunteer four hours a week led to vastly better performance. Just that really simple change, even in the way you communicate about this. When you invite someone to start saving $5 a day instead of $150 a month, you get vastly higher take up.

• 47:41Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Identical, so just little framing shifts where you think about, let's break this down into the bite sized component. Now it's harder to procrastinate on it. You can see how it's doable. It doesn't feel overwhelming.

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  So you're saying if my goal is to save 105 dollars or invest 105 dollars a month or whatever this is, are you saying it's not the best approach to say, I'm going to invest 105 dollars a month, but I'm going to do $5 a day?

• 48:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, so 100, I, I.

• 48:07Lewis Howes?

  I can't remember what this.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's 150 because it's like 30 days roughly in a month.

• 48:11Lewis Howes?

  150 dollars, as opposed to saying, I'm going to save or invest 150 dollars a month, trick your brain into saying, I'm going to invest $5 a day.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:21Lewis Howes?

  You're saying by doing that, what should happen?

• 48:23Speaker 03

  Many more people raise their hand and say, I can do this.

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to 150 dollars is too big for some people.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  It sounds big. You start thinking like, oh no, where am I going to have to cut? Like that's a bit like, I'm not going to get to go out to dinner three times that I thought I was going to get to go out to, am I going to make my rent? So you're like focusing on that big category, 150 dollars. And this was an experiment that was done led by Hal Hershfeld at UCLA with a, with a savings app, Acorns, and they just invited people either, some people get randomly assigned, do you want to save $5 a day or 150 dollars a month? It's literally the identical outcome. They will take 150 dollars out of your account.

• 49:01Lewis Howes?

  Monthly.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Monthly.

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  But they framed it differently and you get vastly higher takeout.

• 49:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow, really?

• 49:06Speaker 03

  Something like five times more people are interested.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  It just feels doable.

• 49:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes. I mean, it's like, anyone can find $5 on their couch or like car, like the change. It's like, I can do this every day, but 150 bucks may be like a big stretch.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Right, but it is the same thing. And so that broken down goal is really important.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  So as opposed, so it's like if you're working out, as opposed to saying, I'm gonna run, I don't know, 50 miles a week. It's like, that may seem like a lot, but I can run, what is that broken down to? Three miles, four miles a day? Four miles a day, five miles a day. It's more doable than thinking about the big number, right?

• 49:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. How could you apply that in another area of life, do you think? In terms of like fitness, in terms of finances? And what about like relationships? I don't know, is there?

• 49:49Speaker 03

  I think you can break down most big goals into its component parts. It might not be as simple as like literally redoing the math, but it might be, you know, I wanna have a better relationship and I want us to spend more quality time together. Let's try to spend a lot more quality time together this year. Well, first you can get more concrete, right? Than a lot of. And so, say you had a monthly goal, it might be like, okay, I wanna make sure that we go on, you know, five just us dates a month to have that alone time. You might say that means, you know, every Friday plus one Saturday, we're gonna do it. And that means, you know, once a week plus one time, one week that has two times. And we're, let's go map out when they are. It all becomes more bite sized and achievable.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  And this is again, you said, you're like mapping out your schedules. These are the, the component parts that actually add up to achieving your goals.

• 50:41Lewis Howes?

  And I really think of like, okay, what am I gonna do this week? What am I gonna schedule this week? Not like, I've got all this stuff to do for the next three months, like, what can I do for the next few days? And what's coming tomorrow? And then, okay, I see the full week and how am I gonna manage my time? And at the end of the week, wow, I can look at what I created and I can be proud of it and build for the next week.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that's really important.

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and time's gonna keep passing. And in three months, you're gonna look back and say, oh, look at all those steps I took to get to me where I'm at.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 51:08Lewis Howes?

  Winning the LA marathon. I'm just kidding. Completing is the goal. Completing in five hours is my goal. Okay, so that's.

• 51:18Speaker 03

  So breaking down.

• 51:18Lewis Howes?

  Leading on structure.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Structure. Let me, let me add another super important strategy that I think a lot of high performers use that research supports. And this one, I think, is vastly underappreciated, too. And it sort of relates to what I was poking at earlier, like the just do it Nike. Like, no, that's not really right. I think this is really a misconception that's related to that. And this, um, the idea comes from research by Aileth Fishbach of the University of Chicago and Caitlin Woolley of Cornell. And what they showed is that if you ask people, when they have a big goal, what approach are they going to take to try to get to it? Most people say, like, I'm going to look for the most efficient route. It's all about efficiency. What's the most effective path to that end goal? That's how I go for it.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  And like a small fraction of people say something different. They say, I try to find a way that I'll enjoy getting to that end destination.

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  Have fun.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Have fun. So, so you could think about someone who wants to, we've been on marathons, say you're training for a marathon, you know, somebody who's like, I'm going to just go to the gym and get on the treadmill.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  Grind it out, hard every day.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. And another person is like, I'm going to go on a run with a running group. We're going to go through, you know, the most, on the most beautiful trails that I know. We're going to do it together. Maybe I'm even going to download some great reading material, listening material before I go so that I have something fun in my ears. Those are really different paths, right? Like, this one might be more efficient because you don't have to coordinate with other people. You'll do it every day. You're going to like know exactly your mileage. It's going to be really controlled.

• 52:50Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  But it turns out, if you don't enjoy it, you don't persist.

• 52:54Lewis Howes?

  Ah.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  And so they've done experiments where they showed that if you just actually encourage people to choose the most fun way to pursue an exercise goal or study, they did this with, with students in math class, you know, giving them fun activities that were sort of going on in the background. You can use markers and play music and have snacks versus just grind it out. People achieve more because they persist longer when they find ways to make it fun to do.

• 53:22Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  What's good for them. But we misunderstand this. We don't think we need that. We sort of think like, oh, that's kid stuff. Like, I'm just going to push through. And we're wrong. We won't ultimately. And that's because of impulsivity, because we overvalue the present experience relative to the long-term gains. It's just how we're wired. We don't appreciate that, we don't appreciate that about ourselves. So we make these mistakes.

• 53:44Lewis Howes?

  We'll probably quit more frequently when it gets harder and harder if there's no like daily joy or fun, if you're just like. I got six months, 12 months, two years until maybe this goal happens. This is exhausting, it's draining, it's pulling me away from having fun and my friendships or these activities. So it sounds like if you can make the challenging steps the fun activity in your day-to-day life, then you'll stick with it longer is what I'm hearing you say.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Absolutely, and I think it's so underappreciated.

• 54:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's so true. What about, what else around structure? You said there's a bunch of subcategories within structure.

• 54:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:19Lewis Howes?

  And the importance of having structure for high performers.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Yes, okay, so another, another really key thing is having if-then plans.

• 54:30Lewis Howes?

  I love that.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  So this is based on research by Peter Goldwitz of NYU, who studied the way people, different people were making plans around goals they wanted to achieve. And he found that some people sort of said, you know, "I will eventually do it," or "I'll do it, you know, I'll do it once a week." And other people laid out real detail in their plans. And they had sort of if-then statements like, "If it is a Thursday at 4:00 PM, then I will go train for my marathon in this location." As opposed to "Some time this week, I'll get around to it." The more structured, the more clear it was, what's the cue that's going to trigger the behavior, the more follow-through he was seeing. And then he started running a series of experiments where he would actually have people basically fill in the blanks. Like, fill in the "if X happens, then I will do Y" sentence,

• 55:16Speaker 03

  instead of just saying, "I plan to do Y." And looked at what are the outcomes and saw this really matters. It turns out, we've done research showing that if people are prompted to just write down the date and time when they intend to get a flu shot, they're more likely to get a vaccine. If people are asked, "When will you vote, where will you vote, how will you get there?" On a call, trying to encourage them to go to a vote in an election, they're significantly more likely to show up. So these like very simple tricks are being used widely in healthcare now, in voter turnout, because it's so powerful to create those if-then plans, instead of just sort of the flimsy ones to get to an end goal.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha, okay. I like the if-then plans.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  If-then plans are super important, yeah. We haven't talked about tracking or accountability, although we've alluded to them.

• 56:04Lewis Howes?

  Let's do it.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  So those are other really important pieces of structure.

• 56:07Lewis Howes?

  Tell me, tell me more.

• 56:08Speaker 03

  So tracking does seem to be really useful in terms of achieving goals because if you're not, if you don't have visibility into whether you're getting anywhere, it's hard to reward yourself and rewarding yourself as part of the loop that makes you keep feeling satisfied and doing something.

• 56:23Lewis Howes?

  For the actual behavioral change to be implemented, right?

• 56:26Speaker 03

  Exactly. So it's a really simple thing, but this tracking does seem to matter. One of my favorite studies of this shows it actually in water conservation, where people were taking showers that were long and they were committed to conservation, but their showers were long, so that wasn't totally working out for them. And then they were randomly assigned to two groups. One group's getting something they know they're being monitored and someone else can see how much water they're using. The other group gets a visual. They can literally see in real time how much water they're using.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  Three minutes left, two minutes, like whatever you have.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  Well, it wasn't a countdown. It was just showing total gallons used, right?

• 57:03Lewis Howes?

  liters or gallons.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  Right. So it's really visible. It's going up.

• 57:06Lewis Howes?

  You're wasting this much every moment, yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  Right. And you can think, like, oh, how much did I use total yesterday? So you can imagine that kind of thing.

• 57:13Lewis Howes?

  It's like gamification.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's related to gamification, although there were no stars and bells and whistles. It's more just, I know where I am and I know how much I've used.

• 57:26Lewis Howes?

  I'm a horrible human being for wasting this much water now.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, that might be the kind of thought. Hopefully it wasn't that extreme, because then it could come with negative. But it had a big impact on it.

• 57:37Lewis Howes?

  Tracking, tracking and measuring.

• 57:38Speaker 03

  Just having a sense, because then you can say, like, I hit the goal. You can make the goals more concrete that way. Like, I'm going to do 10,000 steps a day. My little Fitbit jiggles and it makes me happy. That's gamification. That jiggle gives me so much joy. But the tracking gives you visibility into how you're doing. It's important. And then accountability, which you've mentioned a bunch of times, does, absolutely the research supports. When someone else you care about, when they're holding you accountable, it matters because it changes the cost benefit calculus of achieving your goals.

• 58:10Lewis Howes?

  Is there research around that that proves that, or is it?

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely. My favorite work, so this is in the category of what's called commitment devices. So it's a category that economists have been studying for decades because they find them really weird. So economists get really excited when they hear about commitment devices because they're like, "These shouldn't exist. It breaks all our theories." A commitment device is when you create some sort of penalty or constraint on yourself. So we're used to the government doing that sort of thing, right? They put their speed limits. They fine you if you're tempted to speed. And we're like, "Yeah, that makes sense." But what if you fine yourself or penalize yourself for not achieving your goals? That's crazy. Who would ever do that? And yet, lots of us do, and it's effective.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  And someone who's holding you accountable is sort of like creating a penalty. Because if it's now visible to someone else whether you've achieved more, you're gonna feel shame if you don't. So that's the penalty. If it's invisible, how you're doing.

• 59:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  Now, you could say, "Also, they're gonna see the upside." So maybe it's not only a commitment device. There's also an opportunity for pride and so on. But we tend to, losses tend to be larger than gains to us. Accountability tends to, I think, be most potent because of the sense that you don't wanna let, you don't wanna fall down when someone's watching.

• 59:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  And commitment devices are generally extremely effective. The most effective ones are actually when you put money on the line.

• 59:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  So you can put cash down that you will forfeit if you fail to achieve a goal.

• 59:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  And research shows that that helps. It works really well. So...

• 59:49Lewis Howes?

  Putting money down and saying, "Okay, I'm gonna pay a thousand dollars to something I don't believe in if I don't accomplish this goal or if I don't do the steps at least to get there by a certain time."

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Exactly. And it's like...

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  That'll incentivize you.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  You incentivize yourself, which is very counterintuitive. "Why am I fining myself?" But it works. My favorite study is on smokers who wanted to quit. Half of them are given sort of your standard suite of stuff. Here's ways to quit. The other half are given all that stuff plus a commitment device. You can put money into this account for six months, and it'll disappear if you fail in a nicotine or codeine test in your urine at the end of six months. Thirty percent higher quit rate in the group that just had the ability to put that money in there.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  Now, someone once told me that you pay attention to what you pay for. And so in the coaching world, when you're investing in a book or you're investing in a coach, usually the more the investment in that book or program or coach, the more you wanna pay attention to, to getting the result. Would that be similar to this study that's like, "Okay, if I put a hundred dollars in this thing..." In six months if I stop smoking, people are like, eh, a hundred bucks doesn't matter. But if I put a hundred thousand dollars in, I'm gonna pay attention because that's a lot more money that I don't want to lose.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  You know what's really fascinating is it goes back to the very first thing we talked about, which is sunk costs and the tendency we have not to ignore them. So, you know, if you buy a book, it's sunk cost. You can't go return it and buy it. Maybe you can, but in most cases, if you dog ear it a tiny bit or you're probably not going to return it. So you should ignore it. It's irrecoverable. It doesn't matter, but we don't. That's not how we're wired. And as a result, as a result of wanting to sort of recover that sunk cost, we do work harder when we feel like, oh, I've invested so much.

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  More money.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. So it's a trick. It's sort of a mistake that we do it, but it works. And so let's hook into that and use it to motivate us to achieve more.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  So the more at stake you have of your own, whatever, money or time or energy, the more likely you'll achieve that goal or make that change.

• 1:01:53Speaker 03

  It's just, yeah, you can change the cost benefit calculus moving forward. You can also, if you've invested in the past, then the sunk costs that we tend not to ignore will feel like they should change that. So there's sort of two ways, prospectively and retrospectively. You can put a bunch of money into something and then you're gonna feel guilty if you don't do it.

• 1:02:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  Or you can use these commitment contracts where you literally put money on the line on, say, a website, one of these stick or bee minder that you'll have to forfeit if you don't achieve your goal in the future.

• 1:02:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  They're both tactics that can work for different reasons.

• 1:02:27Lewis Howes?

  Why do you feel like so many people? Oh, actually, I was gonna ask you about this. With people putting penalties on themselves, even if they don't have accountability or it's not a public commitment or something like that. If we say we're gonna do something and then we break our word to ourselves, does that shift our identity or does that keep us in a lower level identity of less confidence, less belief in selves? But actually, when we keep our word, we increase the level of self-esteem and confidence, whether people know about it or not. Like, how does that affect our belief in ourselves or our confidence?

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  It's a really interesting question. So, and specifically, you're saying, when we fail and it's visible to others versus when we fail and it's invisible, how does that change our confidence?

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  It's more like when we say we're gonna do something and we don't take those actions and we constantly, I say I'm gonna work out five days a week, but I'm gonna do one day. And I keep saying, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, and then I keep not doing it. How does that affect our belief in ourselves and our confidence when we continue to break our own word to ourself?

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Got it. Yeah, that's, as you, as you, you know, the premise of the question is right, like, it's not good for our confidence to continually fail. We do have a really amazing, what Dan Gilbert of Harvard has called a psychological immune system, where we, we sort of figure out ways to still end up satisfied and somewhat happier than maybe we would if we took everything at face value, so we can bounce back. And I actually think fresh starts and the fact that the fresh start effect exists may be related to sort of the psychological immune system for all the failure that we, you know, you know, we constantly fail at our goals.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Goals are hard to achieve, most of them we fail at, and, and we have built these ways to sort of stand up again and say, okay, but this time it's gonna be different. And it's probably a good thing by and large, but of course, it's, it's not perfect. And the more we fail, the more difficult it is to, for that psychological immune system to like, to win.

• 1:04:33Lewis Howes?

  And what about the more we keep our word to ourselves, do we build more confidence and self-esteem and momentum towards achieving other goals as well, the other way?

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  Sure, yes, absolutely, that, especially if we're tracking and we can sort of give ourselves that pat on the back, if it's visible to others, sort of the more things that, that reinforce what we're achieving, I think, the better in terms of giving us that boost and, and confidence. And it's interesting, there's some new work that's starting to be done on the power of streaks and visible streaks and sort of seeing like-

• 1:05:06Lewis Howes?

  Like momentum, like-

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  Psychological momentum and streaks, they do build and they make us feel like, okay, you know, I don't wanna lose what I've achieved and accomplished, and that's very motivating.

• 1:05:19Lewis Howes?

  In this final section, brain coach and bestselling author of Limitless, Jim Quick shares how you can double your learning speed. One of the biggest mistakes people make as we grow is we no longer learn new things. And if you're listening to this podcast, it's clear you're a lifelong learner. But increasing the speed at which you learn and improving your memory can really benefit how much value you can hold on to moving forward. And there was a model that you give that I think we should start with.

• 1:05:45Jim Kwik?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Lewis Howes?

  There's a method that you give or a model for how to become limitless. And if we don't follow this model, then something's going to be broken in our life. Isn't that right?

• 1:05:54Jim Kwik?

  Yeah, this model really is a framework for learning anything faster. So for people who are listening and watching and they want to learn a language, they want to learn Mandarin, music, martial arts, management, marketing, math.

• 1:06:07Lewis Howes?

  Anything, any skill.

• 1:06:08Jim Kwik?

  I think if there's one skill to master in the 21st century, it's our ability to learn faster. Like if there was a genie and a genie can grant you any one wish, but only one wish, what would you wish for? If it was only one wish, what would you wish for?

• 1:06:22Lewis Howes?

  You know, most people would say money or this or that. But you think learning is the...

• 1:06:25Jim Kwik?

  I mean, I think a lot of people go for...

• 1:06:27Lewis Howes?

  I think being the matrix, like downloading the matrix.

• 1:06:29Jim Kwik?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Lewis Howes?

  It's where I can learn jujitsu in a second.

• 1:06:33Jim Kwik?

  Exactly.

• 1:06:33Lewis Howes?

  If I can learn a language in a second, if I can have this skill.

• 1:06:36Jim Kwik?

  So I think the hack a lot of people would do is if it was any one wish, they would wish for more wishes, right? It would act for infinite wishes. So the equivalent, if I was your learning genie and I could grant you any one wish to learn any subject or any skill, just like become a master at it. The equivalent, what's the equivalent of the answer of asking for infinite wishes? It would be learning how to learn. Because if you can learn how to learn, the world is yours, especially today. Because nobody who's listening and watching gets paid for their brute strength. It's their brain strength. It's not your muscle power. It's completely your mind power. And the challenge is your brain doesn't come with an owner's manual. It's not user friendly. And that's the reason why I wrote this book. But the limitless model is an explanatory schema, a framework for learning anything faster.

• 1:07:21Jim Kwik?

  And not only that, but really for accessing our human potential. Because I think if there's one infinite... Limitless resource on planet Earth, it's human capability. There's no limit on our determination, there's no limit to our imagination, there's no limit to our creativity. And yet, we're not shown how to be able to access that. And so this framework is a three-part framework. And what I would offer everyone to do is, I love to turn this into like a little master class. Make it really engaging, and so don't listen passively, because we don't learn through, the human brain doesn't learn through consumption. It learns through creation and creativity and getting involved in things. I know a lot of us learn faster when we actually roll up our sleeves and do it.

• 1:08:03Jim Kwik?

  So I would encourage everybody as they're working out, or cleaning the house, or whatever they're doing at the same time, to try to get involved in this.

• 1:08:09Lewis Howes?

  Well, I think as an athlete, I can speak to that because for me in school, it's really hard to remember or learn things. Because I didn't feel like I was participating in a way that worked for me. But as an athlete playing basketball, when a coach would tell me, okay, I want you to watch this video. And then automatically shoot in a certain way with your hand position this way, and follow through this way. Just by watching a video and not actually implementing and practicing it. He would take me out on the court and we would practice it and do it over and over again. And he would correct me and I would learn through muscle memory, as opposed to just watching something and then thinking I can do it without actually practicing.

• 1:08:45Jim Kwik?

  Right.

• 1:08:46Lewis Howes?

  So putting it into practice quickly for me is how I learned sports. And it's how I try to apply it in other areas of my life. As opposed to just, I'm gonna learn and then, okay, I know it, I feel like I need to work in it.

• 1:08:57Jim Kwik?

  I feel you.

• 1:08:58Lewis Howes?

  Get dirty, you know what I mean?

• 1:08:59Jim Kwik?

  I do, I do. I think a lot of people, this is the thing, it's not how smart you are. It's not literally not how, like how smart you are, it's how are you smart? It's not how smart you are, or how smart your kids are, or how smart your business partner is. It's how are they smart, or how are you smart?

• 1:09:15Lewis Howes?

  What's the difference?

• 1:09:16Jim Kwik?

  So you are smart through experiential learning. Like in the book, we talk about.

• 1:09:20Lewis Howes?

  How are you?

• 1:09:21Jim Kwik?

  Exactly. It's not how smart somebody is, like their IQ or their intelligence, it's how are they smart? And it's always context-dependent. And so some people learn, we talk about learning styles in the book. It's like, have you ever been interested, just like you were saying, you're interested in a topic, but you're not getting it? Because sometimes the way. The way you prefer to learn is different than the way the teacher prefers to teach. And it's like you're two ships in the night and you pass each other. And you don't even realize, there's no connection. You don't even realize the other one is there. And it feels uncomfortable. Like if I asked everybody as an exercise to take out a piece of paper, I encourage everyone to take notes. Because I'm gonna drop a lot of like practical methods. When you're taking, if you were to write your name first and last on a piece of paper. Actually, you could do it right now, first and last. And everyone, encourage you to just to do this.

• 1:10:05Jim Kwik?

  Or imagine you're writing your name first and last on a piece of paper. And then when you're done, I want you to switch hands. And in your opposite hand, right below it, write your first and last name with your opposite.

• 1:10:16Lewis Howes?

  I don't even know if it'd take me 10 minutes.

• 1:10:19Jim Kwik?

  And so while people are doing it, you'll notice when you're doing it with the opposite hand, as we're doing it. That's actually pretty good. That if I was to ask you which one is the, which one was easier, first or second? And you would say the first was easier. Which one is is more comfortable, first or last?

• 1:10:38Lewis Howes?

  The first one?

• 1:10:38Jim Kwik?

  The first one. So not only was it faster, it was easier. And then which one was higher quality? Let's check that out.

• 1:10:43Lewis Howes?

  This, the first one.

• 1:10:46Jim Kwik?

  Hopefully, the first one's higher quality also as well. And so here's the thing. That means the second time, it took longer. The second time, it also was not as comfortable. And the second time also, the quality wasn't quite as good. And here's the thing, when I'm saying it's how you learn. Some people are trying to learn something with the opposite hand. So it takes longer, it feels weird, and the quality is not quite as good. As opposed to if you're using your dominant hand.

• 1:11:13Lewis Howes?

  So how do we know how to learn with our dominant hand as opposed to the opposite hand?

• 1:11:17Jim Kwik?

  Yeah, and that's a metaphor for how we like to take in information. Some people like to learn by reading. Some people, they just cannot get through a book though. They have to listen to that audio or that podcast. Other people.

• 1:11:28Lewis Howes?

  Or watch someone lecturing it or talking about it.

• 1:11:30Jim Kwik?

  Exactly, and so we all have different styles and it's not right or wrong. Now, we can. Actually improve our ability to read. We actually can improve our ability to listen and apply. So if there are areas where we feel weak, you know, this book is a guide, a guidebook to be able to level up those areas. So you could be more of a whole brain learner also as well. But really, when it comes to accelerated learning, it's not, again, how smart you are, it's how are you smart? And that honors us and it takes the judgment out. Sometimes in school, it's like the top 10% get As, another 10% get Bs, and then 80% were like you and I. It's like, it's like we're, it's like we're failing school as opposed to the way school maybe is failing us. Because school teaches you what to learn,

• 1:12:14Jim Kwik?

  what to focus on, what to think, what to remember, but not how to learn and how to think.

• 1:12:20Lewis Howes?

  Well, it teaches you how to think and learn in one way.

• 1:12:23Jim Kwik?

  Exactly. And when I talk about in the book, I talk about the four supervillains that are holding you back in your work, in your schooling, in your life. It's driven by technology. But one of them is digital deduction, where we're, where we're depending on technology to tell us what to think. We're not even using the children right now. They're finding that their reasoning abilities, their ability to analyze, critical thinking, is not as sharp as where it should be because, because of technology. Because technology is doing the thinking for us. And our mind, I'm gonna say this repeatedly, is like a muscle. It's use it or lose it. And just like when you go, you have your personal trainer to make your muscles stronger, more energized, more flexible, more pliable.

• 1:13:05Jim Kwik?

  You know, more, you want your mental muscles to be stronger, more energized, more pliable, more, more flexible.

• 1:13:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:13:13Jim Kwik?

  And so many people refer to me as a brain coach because what I do is I train your brain because I think we're in the millennium of the mind. And it's really about mental fitness, our ability to adapt, our ability to think, our ability to solve problems. And this really is everything. When people see me wearing brain shirts all the time or pointing to my brain, the reason why I do that is because what you see, you take care of. You see your hair, you take care of your hair. You see your skin, you take care of your skin. You see your clothing, you take care of your clothing.

• 1:13:41Lewis Howes?

  You don't see your brain.

• 1:13:41Jim Kwik?

  Exactly. And that controls everything. And so when I point to the brain or honor what they're sure, it's just like people have their emotions on their sleeve. You know, I have my brain on my chest because I want to put it forefront to remind people to love their brain, to care for their brain.

• 1:13:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think it's, I mean. That's why a lot of people, doctors and nutritionists are talking about gut health. It's like we can't see it, but we can start to feel rashes or we can start to feel the effects of it. I think it's also heart health is a big thing right now. It's just like the emotional health, self-care, self-love, you know, mental health and emotional health kind of tied together.

• 1:14:15Jim Kwik?

  And I love your work because you bring that to everybody, to the world. And it's all connected. I talk about in the book, you know, there's this heart intelligence and also your gut, as you mentioned, a lot of people call it your second brain. It's the second highest concentration of nerve cells.

• 1:14:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:14:31Jim Kwik?

  And so, and it's connected too. And sometimes what you eat affects how you think. We know that because of the guests we've had on our shows and everything else, that when you eat junk food, which is not, it's not really a thing. There's junk and then there's food.

• 1:14:46Lewis Howes?

  There's sugar and there's food.

• 1:14:47Jim Kwik?

  Exactly. And what you eat matters, especially for your gray matter. I remember in our previous episode we did years ago, I showed people how to memorize the brain foods and all of the best neuroprotective, this area of neuro-nutrition. It's really fascinating that your brain has different nutritional requirements than the rest of your body. But I'm going back to the limitless model. There are three keys to reaching your goals. And this is my distinction here because originally, I remember years ago when you prompted me to write this book. You're like, Jim, you know, it's been, you know, over two decades.

• 1:15:19Lewis Howes?

  You gotta do something.

• 1:15:21Jim Kwik?

  You put something in this book. And so, because fundamentally, I'm a reading teacher. And, you know, somebody has decades, why I love reading. If somebody has decades of experience and they put it into a book like you, and all of a sudden people could read that book in a few days, they could download decades into days. And readers are leaders. We know that. Reading is to your mind what exercises your body. It's the best mental fitness. And so, the limitless model as an exercise, what I want everyone to do. So it's not hypothetical because in part of the book I demystify the three, the seven lies of learning. There are seven lies that hold you back to learning and one of them is knowledge is power. We hear that all the time. I've even said it also as well, but when we think about it, is it really true? Right?

• 1:16:05Jim Kwik?

  Is knowledge, just knowing something give you power? No, not unless you act on it, not unless you apply it. So knowledge times action equals, equals power. And so I would encourage everybody as you're listening to this to take immediate action. And there are three questions I want you to ask as you're listening to this episode to make it very valuable and I would encourage you to write these down. Three master questions. You know, we were talking about some of the famous actors that I work on before we started filming and we were, you know, Will Smith did the cover endorsement of the book that says, you know, Jim Quick, you know, gets the maximum out of me as a human being. I've learned so much from this, this man, just being around, so many around, around clients and What have you learned from Will?

• 1:16:46Jim Kwik?

  So one of the things is this, this idea of, we were in Toronto and I help actors speed read scripts, help them to memorize their lines faster. I mean, you imagine like 30 pages of scripts, there's a lot I can't remember a sentence. There's a lot, right? And some of them have their strategies and, and no matter how great somebody is, you know this because you study, you make, you know, your life about studying and researching greatness. It's, they always know there's another level and they get really good at the fundamentals and the basics. But one of the things when we're, when we're there, we spent the day together and it was winter time in Toronto, they were filming from 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM, which can you imagine? It's so hard overnight. Like at night time, that's very difficult, but during the day I went, we went through

• 1:17:28Jim Kwik?

  an exercise and I believe, so in there I talk about how we have 50 to 70,000 thoughts a day, right? And these thoughts are controlling our lives and a lot of those thoughts are questions that we ask ourselves. You know, thinking is that process of asking and answering questions. And if people are asking, is that true? Notice you had to ask a question to define if it's true, right? And there's certain questions we ask more than any other question. Like what? So, so here's the thing, I talk about dominant questions that you have one, two, three questions that you ask a lot and I want everyone to think about what your dominant questions are, including you. And I'll give you a couple of examples to get you started. So for example, I, one of my friends, we went through this exercise of, of meditating and, and writing, journaling down.

• 1:18:10Jim Kwik?

  We found out her dominant question is, how do I get people to like me? How do I get people to like me? Now, she asks that question all the time, and you don't know anything about her. You don't know her age, you don't know her background, you don't know what she does for a living, you don't know what she looks like, you don't know where she lives, you don't know anything about her. But you know a lot about her. If you asked yourself, "How do I get people to like me?" hundreds of times a day, what's her personality? What's her personality gonna be like? What's her life gonna be?

• 1:18:37Lewis Howes?

  Well, I guess it could be, it could be either side of the spectrum. She could be super outgoing and super adventurous to try to get people to be more attracted to her, or she could be super shy and introverted because she's so worried about what people think about her. So that's the first thing I thought of, but I'm not sure if that's true.

• 1:18:54Jim Kwik?

  And it's absolutely true. She actually does both of those things.

• 1:18:56Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:18:57Jim Kwik?

  I mean, if you ask yourself, "How do I get people to like me?", then what are you doing? You're people-pleasing all the time. You're a sycophant, just...

• 1:19:05Lewis Howes?

  Saying yes to everything.

• 1:19:06Jim Kwik?

  Yeah. You people take advantage of you because you're martyring yourself because they're always trying to do... They're making themselves less than, or their personality is never consistent because their personality changes.

• 1:19:17Lewis Howes?

  The chameleon, the change for people.

• 1:19:19Jim Kwik?

  Exactly. And you know all that about her, and you only know one question she asks herself, and that's one of her dominant questions. I would, I would offer everybody who's listening to this, what do you think your dominant question is? Because questions are the answer. You know this from the work that you do in high performance and greatness, that the questions you ask determine what you focus on. You have part of your brain called the reticular activating system, RAS for short, and it's your filtering system. So at any given time, there's a billion stimuli that we could be paying attention to. And primarily, your brain is a deletion device. It's trying to keep information out. Otherwise, you would go crazy, right? If you paid attention to everything. So what gets in?

• 1:19:59Jim Kwik?

  So, for example, years ago, my little sister started sending me emails and postcards and pictures, a photograph of a very specific kind of dog. It was a pug dog. You know those little...

• 1:20:11Lewis Howes?

  Cuban dogs, the men in black dog, right?

• 1:20:12Jim Kwik?

  Yes, exactly. Very smushy faces, they're very compliant. You could dress them up as ballerinas and they don't care. And, and she starts, and I didn't know why. So my question was like, "Why is she sending me these pictures all the time?" That became a dominant question of the day. And then I realized her birthday was coming up. So she's a smart marketer, right? Planting those seeds. And here's the magic, though. I started seeing pug dogs.

• 1:20:34Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere.

• 1:20:35Jim Kwik?

  Everywhere. I would go to the grocery store, I'd be checking out, and I swear to you, women's carrying a pug dog at the register. I would be running and jogging in my neighborhood, and somebody's walking six pug dogs. Now, my question for everybody is, did these pug dogs magically appear all of a sudden in the world? No, they were always there, but they were not... I wasn't paying attention to them because they weren't important because I wasn't asking that question. Once you ask a question, you start to pay attention to those things. And that focus determines how you feel, determines your behaviors. And primarily, it's so interesting. It's kind of like social media. There's an algorithm to your mind, like there's an algorithm to Facebook and Instagram, that what you engage with the most, you like and you share, you comment, you start seeing more of those kind of things.

• 1:21:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Jim Kwik?

  And so, just like your mind, what you start engaging with, if you start watching all this news about fear and all the things that are going on, you start paying attention. And your mind just starts focusing automatically, it becomes a reaction, a reflex.

• 1:21:31Lewis Howes?

  And you start to attract more of the fear and anxiety or worry that's in the world, that's being posted.

• 1:21:36Jim Kwik?

  Very much so.

• 1:21:36Lewis Howes?

  You start to subscribe to whatever that is to receive more of it.

• 1:21:39Jim Kwik?

  Exactly.

• 1:21:40Lewis Howes?

  What you're thinking about.

• 1:21:41Jim Kwik?

  So just like on social media, if you start just liking all the cat stuff and everything else, they'll just start feeding you cat stuff.

• 1:21:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:21:46Jim Kwik?

  And same thing with negativity, and same thing with opportunity also as well. So the questions make a difference. So questions are the answer.

• 1:21:53Lewis Howes?

  What are the two questions you've been... that are dominant in your mind over the last five years the most?

• 1:21:58Jim Kwik?

  Yeah. So for learning, because I grew up with the broken brain, many people know my story from the last episode. When they see me do these demonstrations at Summit Series or it's, you know, events you and I have...

• 1:22:09Lewis Howes?

  Remembering a thousand people's names.

• 1:22:11Jim Kwik?

  Right.

• 1:22:12Lewis Howes?

  Ten minutes.

• 1:22:12Jim Kwik?

  All of that kind of stuff. I say that I don't do this to impress you. I do this to express to you what's possible. Because the truth is, we could all do that and a whole lot more. We just weren't taught. If anything, we're taught a lie that somehow our intelligence is fixed, like our shoe size. But I do it as a demonstration because I grew up with learning difficulties, right? I had my brain injury when I was five. I fell, had a very bad fall when I was in kindergarten. Rushed to the hospital. Before, I was curious and very energized, my parents would say, but then I became very shut down. And my superpower growing up was being invisible. It was shrinking because I didn't want the spotlight. I didn't want to be called on. So I was literally physiologically, I was always trying to look smaller to protect myself. So teachers wouldn't call on me or I wouldn't be bullied or something like that.

• 1:22:57Jim Kwik?

  I would do that as well, except for I was just a giant in the class. So I was always picked on. So for me, I would actually be sitting behind you and I would guarantee no one would be able to see me. But going back to my question, my question became all the time. First of all, when I was nine years old, I was slowing the class down. And a teacher pointed to me and said, that's the boy with the broken brain. And that label became my limit. And so we have, if they think about when you're listening to this, what are the labels that we put on ourselves? It's like, we're not born, we're born with a blank slate, right? But through experience, through expectations of other people, through our environment, we learned that we are limited. And the good news is we can unlearn it. And that's, that's, that's the point of the book.

• 1:23:40Jim Kwik?

  But because I was in the broken state, I would always ask myself, you know, you know, why am I, why, why am I broken? Why am I the stupid one? And I started getting answers of why I'm so stupid, right? And every time I did badly on a test, I would be like, oh, because I have the broken brain, right? If I was in pick in sports, I'd be like, oh, because I'm the broken one. And that became my self-talk. Adults have to be very careful with their external words because they become a child's internal words. But later I started to get so frustrated, I started asking, getting curious. And when you're curious, you start to ask different questions. I was like, why, why is that person so, why, why are they so smart? And how come I'm studying three times harder and getting less grades than, than them, right? And I started getting answers.

• 1:24:22Jim Kwik?

  My primary question started, my dominant question ended up being like, how do I make this better? But the three questions that I focus on, and let me tell you first what Will's is. Will Smith's, one of his dominant questions when we went through this exercise is, how do I make this moment even more magical? How do I make this moment even more magical? It used to be-

• 1:24:45Lewis Howes?

  Every moment, or like in acting alone?

• 1:24:47Jim Kwik?

  This moment. Any moment. And it shows up, right, in his life. Because later that night, when we're filming, it was like 2 o'clock in the morning, and his family, we're all outside for the superhero movie that many people know of. And it was really cold, because it was in Toronto, and it was wintertime. And we're all just waiting, and just waiting and waiting and waiting. Because people think that, and you meet all these people all the time on your show, and they think it's so glamorous.

• 1:25:15Lewis Howes?

  No, hurry up and await.

• 1:25:16Jim Kwik?

  Exactly. And I ask him this question, because I believe genius leaves clues. I was like, you know, how do you prepare? How do you get ready? When the director, you're just sitting here for hours, and then the director calls on you. How do you get ready? And he was like, Jim, I don't have to get ready, I stay ready. And I'm like, wow, that's good to be Will Smith.

• 1:25:34Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to stay ready for six hours and wait, no.

• 1:25:36Jim Kwik?

  Exactly, but that's just who he is. Because I believe the life you live are the lessons you teach. The life you live are the lessons you teach others. But going back to his dominant question, his family was there also at the same time, visiting the set, and, you know, from West Philly, you know the song. And we're all outside, and shivering, and when he wasn't shooting, he would bring us blankets. He would make hot chocolate and bring it to us. He would crack jokes. He would live that dominant question. Because the life he lives, he like, how do I make this moment even more magical? Now, before, it was like, how do I make this moment magical? Then we played with it, like, even more magical. Presuming it is already magical and amazing. And so these questions we ask are very important.

• 1:26:18Jim Kwik?

  Now, there are three questions, when I said there's turning knowledge into power, that I want everyone to obsess about. I mean, this will make you a master. And if you get a, this is it. Three questions to turn knowledge into power. Because knowledge alone is potential power. Number one, how can I use this? When you're listening to this podcast moving forward- Every time you listen to it, I want you to ask yourself, how can I use this? Get obsessed about this, like even write it down. And this is where your mind can be very creative. Because in here, I teach a power of note-taking. Because people don't realize this. When you listen to a podcast, or you go to a summit, or an event, or have a great conversation with somebody, within two days, 80% of it is gone. We forget it. They call it the forgetting curve.

• 1:27:01Jim Kwik?

  And one of the ways to retain it is by taking notes, exactly what you're doing. Now, I encourage people to take notes a very specific way. Is to take, put a line right down the page. And on the left side of the page, I want you to take notes. And on the right side, I want you to make notes. So on the left side of the page, you're taking notes. You're capturing. Right, you're capturing information. And you're like, this is how Jim remembers his name. This is how Jim reads a book a day, or whatever it is. So you're, on the left side, you're capturing. But on the right side, you're creating. Now, that's a subtle difference. On the left side, you're note-taking. On the right side, you're note-making. What's the difference? Again, on the left side, you're taking notes. You're writing down the quotes and the strategies, the processes.

• 1:27:46Jim Kwik?

  But on your right side, what you're doing, the right side creativity, instead of your mind being distracted when you're listening, have it be distracted on, focused on, how can I use this? On the right side is where you're writing your impressions of what you're learning. How can I use this? Another great question, second dominant question I would ask, is not only how can I use it? Because you come up with all these answers. Just like I see, you start seeing pug dogs everywhere. It's like, oh, this is how I could use this in my relationship. This is how I could use it in my career. Second question I would ask is, why must I use this? Why must I use this? You know, we know, one of the people that endorsed my book, he's on your show, is Simon Sinek. And, you know, one of my favorite books, I'm going to mention a lot of books,

• 1:28:29Jim Kwik?

  including your own, start with, you know, his is Start with Why, right? And so, why must I use this? So once you have all these ideas of how can I use this? Why must I use this? Because if you don't have the reasons, you won't get the results. Right, you won't care enough about it. Exactly, reasons reap results. I'm going to give a lot of people a lot of quick Because it goes from your head to your heart to your hands. You could affirm things in your head all day, set goals in your head all day. But if you're not acting with your hands, you're procrastinating, putting things off, check in with your second age, which is your heart, which are the emotions, right? Because we are not logical, we are biological. Dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, this chemical soup drives us to act. Just like people don't buy logically, they don't fall in love logically,

• 1:29:14Jim Kwik?

  they do these things emotionally. So find your emotions. And in this book, we do, we really uncover and I decode motivation. Not motivation, getting hyped up and dancing on chairs and then the next day not changing. We figured out this formula of sustainable motivation in this book. But the second question is, go back to, why must I use this? Because if you don't have the why, you won't do the what. And then finally, the third question. First question, how can I use this? Write all the answers down, think about that. Second question, why must I use it? Gives you the energy and the fuel and the drive to do it. And finally, when will I use this? When will I use this? Because we know that one of the most important performance productivity tools that we have is our calendar, right?

• 1:29:59Jim Kwik?

  If it's not in our calendar, it just doesn't get done. How many people will go, you put doctor's appointments there, you put PTA meetings, you put meetings with your investor there. But are you scheduling your workout? Are you scheduling your meditation time? Are you scheduling your journal or your white space just so you can be a creative thinker? And if we don't write it down, it comes at the end. And then you just, you know, you never get to it. And so those are the three dominant questions that you want to ask to take knowledge and turn them into power. So as you're going through this, ask those questions. You'll get better answers and you'll learn it deeper. It'll deepen into your nervous system so much more.

• 1:30:35Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.