England’s Most Notorious Witch Trial: Pendle Forest

In 1612, a chance encounter on a road in rural Lancashire sparked an accusation of witchcraft that would grow into one of the most notorious witch trials in English history. As one accusation led to another, old rivalries resurfaced, family members turned against one another, and stories of curses, familiars and secret gatherings drew more and more people into the investigation. What began with one young woman would soon engulf an entire community, leaving families destroyed and multiple people condemned to the gallows. For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodes For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! ButcherBox: Get $20 off your first box, plus chicken breast in every box for life or filet or NY strips for a year, with free shipping always. Podcast Special Offer Nutrafol: Get $15 off your first month's subscription and free shipping with promo code NPAD. https://nutrafol.com Article : Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit Contemporary, Mid Century & Modern Furniture | Article and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. Contemporary, Mid Century & Modern Furniture | Article Shop: Enter to win the one-million-dollar Shop Cash giveaway, from now until November 1. One thousand shoppers will each win $1,000 in Shop Cash. https://shop.com No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at SHOP-DOT-COM. SimpliSafe Get 70% off your new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring. Visit SimpliSafe.com/NPAD and write NATIONAL PARK AFTER DARK at checkout to support the show. https://simplisafe.com/NPAD Fi: Get up to 30% off and free shipping on Fi GPS and health trackers for your pets with promo code NPAD. https://fitracking.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Most of us are familiar with the Salem witch trials. In 1692, accusations of witchcraft tore through the small community of Salem, Massachusetts. Women were accused of appearing in dreams to torment their neighbors, of causing mysterious illnesses harming children, and making pacts with the devil. Bridget Bishop was accused of bewitching a child and sending her spirit to torment people before becoming the first person executed during the Salem witch trials. Sarah Good, a homeless mother who survived by begging from her neighbors, was accused alongside her four-year-old daughter Dorothy. Dorothy was imprisoned for nearly eight months, while Sarah's other daughter, an infant named Mercy,

• 0:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  was imprisoned alongside her mother and died in jail before Sarah herself was eventually hanged. In Salem, more than 200 people were accused of witchcraft and 19 were hanged. Today, Salem has become infamous for their witch trials. Their story has been retold in books, movies, documentaries, museums, and classrooms, and the names of its victims are still remembered more than three centuries later. Yet Salem was not the beginning. Eighty years earlier, across the Atlantic, another small community had been torn apart in remarkably similar ways. In the isolated countryside of Lancashire, England,

• 1:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  families accused one another of using curses and supernatural powers to cause illness and death. Their story would become one of the most notorious witch trials in British history. Yet today, especially outside of England, it remains overshadowed by the events that unfolded in Salem generations later. Today, we are going back to 1612, to the villages and farms beneath England's Pendle Hill Forest, where one encounter between a young woman and a traveling peddler would begin a chain of accusations that would destroy families and send people to the gallows. History often tells us that they burned witches at the stake. The reality is that they burned women.

• 2:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  They tortured women. They imprisoned women. And they hung women. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 2:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello, everyone, and welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle.

• 2:43Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm Cassie.

• 2:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  And it's Halloween.

• 2:45Danielle LaRock?

  Happy Halloween.

• 2:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, Halloween week, almost. Monday, Halloween Saturday this year. Hope you all have some good plans. I do not.

• 2:58Danielle LaRock?

  I can't even talk about it. I don't have plans either. I actually have right now, you know, when like your nerves are shot and people are like, "I need a cigarette."

• 3:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 3:10Danielle LaRock?

  I don't smoke, so if you ever see me with a McDonald's Coke, Fountain Coke.

• 3:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is your cigarette.

• 3:19Danielle LaRock?

  That's my... I'm chain smoking right now.

• 3:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 3:23Danielle LaRock?

  So Halloween...

• 3:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  I never thought I'd see the day.

• 3:29Danielle LaRock?

  Halloween week is a little different this year. But the dogs have some cute costumes, that's for sure.

• 3:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  And that's important.

• 3:38Danielle LaRock?

  And that's the most important thing.

• 3:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  I haven't even thought of what I would dress Ember or Tucker up in.

• 3:44Danielle LaRock?

  Have they ever? Have you ever dressed them up as anything?

• 3:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 3:48Danielle LaRock?

  Not even Tucker? Tucker's been around for like 10 years.

• 3:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. Not that I can remember. I don't think so.

• 3:55Danielle LaRock?

  He would be cute as if you just painted him like as a skeleton, like glow paint, white, because he's so jet black, you know?

• 4:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that would be really cute. I'd have to take him trick-or-treating if we did that.

• 4:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, he'd have to show it off somewhere.

• 4:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, he couldn't just stay home if I did all that work.

• 4:16Danielle LaRock?

  No. Next year, because I know you're not gonna do it.

• 4:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're going down to the... We're coming down to the wire. I don't think it's gonna happen this year. But next year, he could be a skeleton, maybe.

• 4:29Danielle LaRock?

  Well, your intro has me very intrigued because I did say I didn't want to hear shit about the Salem witch trials again, or something like that.

• 4:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  And this is not the Salem witch trials, but it is a witch trial, which I had never heard of before. And I know that they've happened in other places outside of the US. But of course, because we're so close to Salem, Massachusetts, that's what we have always focused on. So this was really interesting for me and a learning experience for me to dive into England's, one of their most notorious witch trials. They've had a few, but this is one of their most notorious, for sure.

• 5:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and again, if you didn't hear me in the previous episode and I was like, "Please, I'm begging you to look into other witch trials", not trying to diminish how awful Salem's witch trials were. I mean, they went down in history for a reason, but I just want to broaden my horizons when it comes to, and you know, broaden my education when it comes to witch trials because I know that this isn't the only one. And it just felt like that growing up because of our proximity to Salem and obviously it's US-based as well. So anyhow, I'm also looking forward to this.

• 5:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, and I think especially around Halloween, witches are always top of mind. And Halloween has kind of turned witches into something that is really fun. I mean, I remember when I was a kid, I dressed up as a witch for Halloween for like five years in a row.

• 6:04Danielle LaRock?

  It's such a easy... I mean, it's... You don't even think about it.

• 6:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's easy, but I always just loved the idea of it. I was just like, "I want to be a witch." You know, "I want to be able to cast spells and have potions and heal people and have a black cat and..." Like, I don't know. It was just like everything about it, I thought was really cool growing up. But when you really dive into the history of it, it's really, really dark. And it's actually just, the bottom line of it is it's a horrific story against women and not quote-unquote witches. It's just, it's atrocities towards women, which I also love learning about, unfortunately for me. So today, I have a story from England and their witch trials.

• 6:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  So let's jump into it. On Monday, March 18th, 1612, a young woman named Alison Device. And Alison, it's like Allison, but there's a Z, so I'm gonna try really hard.

• 7:04Danielle LaRock?

  Allison, kiss me, I'm Allison. Do you know who that's from?

• 7:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, good. Thank God.

• 7:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Of course, I know.

• 7:12Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, I'm just making sure.

• 7:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  I wish I could follow up and continue the quote because I can picture the whole scene from Hocus Pocus, where it's like his little sister is like, "Kiss me, I'm Allison." He's like, "Danny, stop." You're like, whatever, but I don't know like the exact quote, but...

• 7:30Danielle LaRock?

  And she's dressed as a witch.

• 7:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  She is dressed as a witch.

• 7:34Danielle LaRock?

  That is true.

• 7:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, this one is, her name is Alison with a Z, Device. And she was walking along a road near the town of Colne in Lancashire, which is a county tucked into the northwestern English countryside. Alison was desperately poor and lived with her family in Pendle Forest, which is an isolated rural community spread beneath Pendle Hill, which rises more than 1,800 feet above sea level, and the hill dominates the surrounding countryside. Its summit overlooking miles of rolling farmland, valleys, and open moorland. It's just a really beautiful area. People had been drawn to this landscape in particular for thousands of years. Long before Alison was born, a prehistorical burial mound

• 8:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  had been constructed on the summit of Pendle Hill during Britain's Bronze Age over 2,000 years earlier. The forest below had once been an ancient hunting ground inhabited by wolves and wild boar. And by Alison's lifetime, small farms were scattered throughout the countryside in this area. And I will say, there's no national park in this episode, and I apologize, but...

• 8:44Danielle LaRock?

  How dare you.

• 8:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's a forest. It's Pendle Hill Forest. Pendle Forest is outside. It's very outside kind of sometimes.

• 8:54Danielle LaRock?

  It's okay. My werewolf one was a hiking trail.

• 8:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Danielle LaRock?

  And hiking is a generous... It was like a walking path.

• 9:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's Halloween. I had to like, I had to link it. I had to link it. There's a forest and I just told you about a hill. That's the last deal you're about anything outdoors.

• 9:11Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 9:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you for listening. Okay.

• 9:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, Alison was out begging that day, something she and other members of her family regularly did to survive, because life in this part of Lancashire could be incredibly difficult. The region had endured centuries of war, disease and poverty, and conditions became even harsher as you traveled farther into Pendle Forest, where scattered families lived beyond the towns and farther from the reach of the central government. Long before Lancashire would become one of England's great textile centers, families like Alison survived however they could, through begging, labor and folk healing. As Alison traveled along the road that day, she encountered an older traveling peddler

• 9:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  named John Law, who was walking through the area carrying a pack of goods on his pack. Among the things he carried were metal pins, and Alison asked him for some. What exactly happened next is unknown and has been argued, although Alison stated that she asked to buy the pins and John refused, while John's son, Abraham, said that Alison had had no money to pay for them and his father had graciously given her some anyway. Whatever happened, whatever version of events unfolded there, at the end, the encounter apparently ended pretty badly. According to John, Alison then became angry, the two separated, and he continued along the road. However, he didn't make it too far.

• 10:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Only moments later, John suddenly collapsed. His speech became difficult to understand and he lost movement along the left side of his body, symptoms that today strongly resemble a stroke. He was eventually carried into an alehouse nearby, where word of his condition reached his son Abraham. When Abraham arrived several days later, his father was still partially paralyzed and struggling to speak. And once he had recovered enough to explain what had happened, he told his son about the young woman he had encountered on the road immediately before his collapse. In 1612, there was no medical explanation available to John Law for what had happened

• 11:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  to his body, so he's like, "I don't know what could have happened, except I had this uncomfortable encounter with a woman right before this." So he told his son that Alison device had bewitched him. Abraham tracked Alison down and brought her to his father's bedside, where instead of denying what she had supposedly done, Alison begged John for forgiveness. Not long afterwards, when she was questioned by a local justice of peace named Roger Noel, her story became even more extraordinary. According to the confession recorded against her, Alison claimed that a black dog had appeared to her after the confrontation and offered to harm John.

• 12:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Angry about the encounter, she told it to lame him, and moments later, John fell. We will never know exactly what Alison believed had happened on that road, but her confession had transformed John Law's sudden illness into the work of the devil. She had admitted to witchcraft, and in England in 1612, that was a crime punishable by death. The man who now found himself responsible for investigating Alison was Roger Noel, that same local justice of peace who had questioned her prior. Alison's confession was particularly dangerous in a place like Lancashire, which was already being watched closely by the government for religious reasons. England had spent decades being torn apart by the struggle between people who were Catholic

• 12:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  and people who were Protestant. And Lancashire remained one of the strongest centers for Catholic resistance in the whole country. Families continued practicing the Old Faith, sometimes secretly, and refusing to attend services of the Church of England could bring punishment from the government. In fact, in the same year that Alison encountered John Law, Lancashire's justice of the peace had been instructed to identify people in their community who refused to conform to the established church. So when Alison sat before Roger Noel and told him that the spirit in the form of a black dog had offered her supernatural powers, he wanted to know more, not for good reasons.

• 13:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Religious suspicion was already enough to make Lancashire a place of particular interest to men like Noel, but there was something else happening in England that made Alison's confession even more dangerous. The King of England himself, James I, had become fascinated with witchcraft and firmly believed that people could make agreements with the devil and use supernatural powers to harm others. James's interest in witchcraft had begun long before Alison ever walked into Roger Noel's life. Years earlier, while James was still King of Scotland, violent storms had disrupted voyages connected to his marriage to Anne of Denmark. In Denmark and Scotland, people began claiming that the storms had been caused by witchcraft,

• 14:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  and James became personally involved in investigations that followed. From there, his interest in witches, demons, and the idea that people could enter into agreements with the devil grew considerably. In 1597, James published Demonology, a book devoted to explaining how he believed witches and demons operated, how they could be identified, and why they needed to be punished. When Elizabeth I died six years later and James inherited the English throne, the man who had written extensively about the dangers of witchcraft became the King of England and thus brought his fear of witches with him. And if any of this is sounding familiar to people, especially if you are on Patreon

• 15:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  with us and you are part of our book club and you read How to Kill a Witch, we talk about, that book talks about all of this much more extensively than what I'm jumping into.

• 15:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and it's all kind of coming together, at least for us. If you're, it's a very niche experience, but if you are also, if you're a part of our book club and also went to Scotland with us a couple of months ago.

• 15:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, we've been obsessed with this for the whole month of September and October.

• 15:30Danielle LaRock?

  September, October, yeah. And we, because he is also the son of Mary, Queen of Scots, who we also learned a lot about. And yeah, his, it's a little crazy sometimes when you reflect back on history and can pinpoint like, oh, all of this, all the dominos that fell started with this one person. And this king is that person when it comes to not only the Scottish witch trials that we learned a lot about, but now it's infiltrating England and just so many people lost their lives because of his belief system.

• 16:14Danielle LaRock?

  And, I mean, he didn't, he wasn't born believing this, like, he was influenced by others as well. I'm not saying it's solely his fault, but he's in such a position of power.

• 16:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  And writing books of just his opinion.

• 16:27Danielle LaRock?

  And it's also kind of, I mean, I'm by no means like educated on this, I just started learning about this a couple of months ago, but there was some thing that, do you remember in the book how he made this like declaration where essentially he was saying, "Hey, so just so everyone knows, everything that I'm saying, not only am I your king and you have to listen to me, but also it's God's word, because God's talking to me directly, so what I say is God's will. So not only should you listen to me because I'm your king, but I'm the mouthpiece of God. So it's God's will, whatever I want."

• 17:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  And with this whole religious, where there was such a prominent religious fight going on at the same time, to be like, "I am your leader and I speak to God" was huge.

• 17:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  For people to be listening to him and kind of respecting his ideologies.

• 17:28Danielle LaRock?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I'm sure we'll get further into that, but yeah, it's just nuts. And again, the Scottish witch trials were mind-blowing to learn about because I hadn't heard a breath of that. And, you know, what night, was it 19 or 20 people lost their lives in Salem during our witch trials? And in Scotland, almost 4,000 people died? 4,000!

• 17:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  And we've always been focused on Salem and we're like, 19? That's horrible, which is, it is, it's horrific, but 4,000 is insane.

• 18:04Danielle LaRock?

  Mm-hmm. So.

• 18:07Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so he's writing demonology books.

• 18:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. James the first becomes the king of England. He goes over there and within a year of becoming the king, Parliament passed a new Witchcraft Act. Witchcraft had already been a crime in England, but the 1604 law broadened the kinds of supernatural acts that could lead to execution. Under their new law, causing someone's death through witchcraft remained a capital offense. But a person could now also be sentenced to death for invoking or dealing with an evil spirit, even if no one had died.

• 18:50Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 18:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  So, nothing has to, so this like goes into like the sickness. And if someone like gets injured or whatever, it doesn't mean someone had to die. You can be sentenced to death because someone suspects you prayed to the devil, they would stub their toe, or whatever. And lesser acts of magic intended to harm someone or discover hidden or stolen property could bring imprisonment for a first offense and death for a second. So they were really, really serious about it. So Roger Noel wanted to know more about Alison, obviously, because she had just revealed that she saw a black dog, that she's participating in witchcraft, maybe has links to the devil. And with all of this going on, he wants to know more

• 19:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  of what's happening with her and what her connections might be. Alison lived in Pendle Forest with her mother, Elizabeth the Vice, who was known locally as Squinting Lizzie. Her brother James, her younger sister Jenna, and her elderly grandma, Elizabeth Suthers, better known throughout Pendle as Old Demdike, also lived with her. Her entire family was extremely poor. And Demdike, by then around 80 years old and nearly blind, had spent decades begging and making a living, in part through the reputation she had developed as a healer or a wise woman. She practiced charms and folk healing for people in the surrounding community, the kinds of traditions that could be sought out when someone needed help.

• 20:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  So she, it was basically like an early nurse. She just knew a lot of different herbal remedies. People would come for, come to her for things like infections, coughs, flus, stuff like that. But when this whole witchcraft frenzy starts happening, that was easily interpreted as witchcraft. Alison claimed that her grandmother had encouraged her to accept the help of a supernatural spirit, something people at the time called a familiar. Within older folk beliefs and magical traditions, helping spirits could be understood as supernatural companions or guides, sometimes appearing in the form of animals or people and assisting with things like healing and protection.

• 21:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  To people like King James and the authorities prosecuting witchcraft, however, these spirits were interpreted very differently. They believed familiars were demons connected to the devil, sent to assist witches in carrying out supernatural acts. So it's kind of like saying today, if you have a spiritual connection with, I don't know, like a dragonfly, where whenever you see a dragonfly, you know that that's going to bring you something positive or good luck, or like that's a sign for you, that is witchcraft and that is demon work to the English government.

• 21:42Danielle LaRock?

  Under this school of thought, if you could even call it that.

• 21:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Yes. So Alison points to her grandmother and says she's part of this. But she also pointed Noel towards another woman in Pendle, Anne Whittle, better known as Old Shaddix. Shaddix was another elderly woman who survived partly on begging and as a healer, and she and Demdike had apparently been bitter rivals for years. The hostility between their families went back at least a decade, and Alison now accused Shaddix of using witchcraft to cause several deaths, including that of her own father, John Device. John had died in 1601 after becoming ill, but according to Alison, he had spent years terrified of what Shaddix might do to his family.

• 22:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  He was apparently so frightened of her that he agreed to give Shaddix eight pounds of oatmeal every year in exchange for her promise not to harm him, his family, or their property. The arrangement continued for years until the payment was missed in the year John became sick. As he lay dying, John reportedly became convinced that Shaddix had bewitched him and punished him for failing to give her the oatmeal. Of course, there's no way to know what illness had actually killed John because the medicine just wasn't there at the time. But 11 years later, his death became another accusation of witchcraft that Alison had given to Roger Noel. And maybe she was saying this because it was like,

• 23:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  well, he died years ago, like maybe this will be swept under the rug kind of thing. But he immediately thought, agreed that this could be witchcraft. But it is important to remember that everything I've just told you about Alison's examination and her confession comes from the accounts written by the men who questioned and who eventually prosecuted her. We don't know exactly what happened during those interrogations, how she was questioned, or what kind of pressure she may have been under when she made all of those statements. But what we do know is that some of the methods used against people accused of witchcraft were horrific. Suspects could be kept awake for days,

• 24:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  stripped naked and searched for supposed marks left by the devil, or repeatedly pricked with needles to find areas of skin that supposedly couldn't feel pain. Others were tied up and lowered into water, where floating was considered evidence of witchcraft. In Scotland, during the North Berwick Witch Trials of 1590 and 1591, a woman named Agnes Sampson was stripped, shaved, and searched for marks on her body. Her interrogators also tightened a rope around her head to inflict terrible pain before she confessed to witchcraft. Another accused woman was tortured with instruments designed to crush her fingers, while a man named John Fian was subjected to similar treatment,

• 24:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  including a device that crushed his legs.

• 24:47Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God, do you remember that one? I forget what it was called, the nickname for it that we saw in the Museum of Scotland.

• 24:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  But we saw the torture device.

• 24:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and I just remember the detail of they would like do something, put your legs in them in some way and like hit them with a sledgehammer until your bones broke and the marrow like went into your boots.

• 25:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 25:11Danielle LaRock?

  To get you to confess. And I mean, if you didn't die, you would be severely crippled for the rest of your life. And.

• 25:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, I would confess under those type of circumstances.

• 25:21Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 25:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know? Like, just kill me. What is this? Stop, you know?

• 25:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Healthy eating gets a lot simpler when you already have quality ingredients ready to go. I've been trying to prioritize eating healthier and getting enough protein. And having good options in the freezer makes that so much easier. When life gets busy, it's easy to fall into the habit of ordering takeout or throwing together whatever happens to be in the fridge. That's one of the reasons I've really enjoyed ButcherBox. It takes a lot of the planning and grocery shopping out of the equation. ButcherBox delivers 100% grass-fed beef, organic chicken, wild-caught seafood, and more, all sourced to standards they can actually tell you about. They've already done the research and made the tough sourcing decisions. So all you have to do is decide what's for dinner. I'm pescatarian, so I especially love their seafood options. And it's nice that at home, we can customize our box

• 26:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  with a variety of proteins that work for both me and for my husband. Everything arrives right at our door, so we're stocked up with quality ingredients and have plenty of options when it's time to make dinner. If you're looking for an easier way to get great meals on the table, give ButcherBox a try. Go to butcherbox.com/NBAD to get $20 off your first box, plus chicken breast in every box for life, or filet, or New York strips for a year, with free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com/NBAD. Again, that's butcherbox.com/NBAD. Be sure to use our link so they know that we sent you. I've always struggled with growing my hair, so hair health is something I've been trying to pay more attention to.

• 26:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think we spend so much time focusing on skincare, which I love, and other parts of wellness routines that sometimes our hair gets overlooked. That's why I've been really excited about Nutraful, especially now that they've made some big improvements to their women's formula. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist-recommended hair growth supplement brand, and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. And now, the Nutraful Women's Formula has been upgraded to its most advanced version yet. It's 100% vegan, biotin-free, and comes in a smaller capsule size to make your daily routine easier. Whether you're just starting your hair health journey or you've been taking Nutraful for years, this update means you can now get their most advanced support yet.

• 27:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. Now, Nutraful is offering our listeners $15 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter promo code NPAD. That's nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L, dot com, promo code NPAD for $15 off.

• 28:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, kind of circling back to why I think that those examples are really important, because these Scottish trials took place just over 20 years before the events at Pendle during the reign of King James VI of Scotland, who later became King James I of England. So during the same rule, same ruler that she is now being questioned under these torture practices were happening in Scotland, and now she's being questioned in England under the same king. So we do not know for sure if Alison was treated any similarly, but given the ruler around the time and the panic around witches, it is very, very likely that

• 28:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  she was tortured during these questionings. What we do know is that by the end of that examination from Roger Noel, she had given names, and those names gave him new people to pursue for witchcraft. On April 2, he summoned Old Demdike, Old Shaddix, and Shaddix's daughter, Anne Redfern, for questioning. And this is when the investigation truly began to spiral. Noel began with Alison's grandmother, Demdike. When she was questioned, the surviving account records her admitting to practicing magic and describing an encounter she claimed had happened decades earlier. According to the statement attributed to her, Demdike

• 29:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  said that while walking near a quarry, she encountered a spirit named Tib, who appeared first in the form of a young boy and later as a brown dog. She claimed that Tib promised that if she gave him her soul, she could have anything that she wanted. Demdike also reportedly confirmed much of what Alison had already told Noel about their family and implicated Old Shaddix in acts of witchcraft. Then Noel questions the family's rival, Shaddix, and Shaddix reportedly confessed to having a familiar of her own and accused members of Demdike's family in return. She also admitted to using witchcraft against John Device, Alison's father, after the annual payment of oatmeal from the Device

• 30:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  family had stopped. By the end of Roger Noel's examinations, he had Alison Device, Old Demdike, Old Shaddix, and Anne Redfern committed to Lancaster Castle to await their trial. So essentially, it's just like finger pointing, and again, it's not recorded in their records, but it is likely that all of them were being tortured under or under some sort of duress during this, where they're pointing fingers at each other, and maybe even being promised that if they tell them who is doing this, that they'll be set free. So they've all just pointed fingers at each other. Now, this castle that they were imprisoned

• 31:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  stood in the center of Lancaster, roughly 30 miles northwest of Pendle, still within the county of Lancashire. By 1612, the medieval castle was being used as both a prison and a courthouse, and it was here that people accused of serious crimes from across the county could be confined until the traveling judges arrived. For Alison, Demdike, Shaddix, and Anne Redfern, being sent there meant that they could now spend months imprisoned while they waited to learn whether they would be tried for their crimes that could cost them their lives. So it was basically just like, we are going to put you in prison, but there's no one here. So whenever they get here is when we'll have our trial. Then, less than two weeks later, something happened at Demdike's home that would transform

• 31:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  the case again. The house was known as Malkin Tower, although despite its name, it was probably not a grand stone tower at all, given their poverty. On April 10, 1612, which was Good Friday, a group of people had gathered there. Exactly why they gathered and what happened inside would later become one of the most important questions in the entire Pendle investigation. To the people who attended, it may have just been a gathering for family and neighbors to enjoy a meal together and socialize. Not abnormal to invite your neighbors over for a meal and to hang out. But Roger Noel found it very suspicious.

• 32:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  According to the accusations that followed, the people at Malkin Tower had gathered to discuss freeing the imprisoned women from the Lancaster Castle, and their plans involved killing a man named Thomas Covell, who was involved with the castle, and they even supposedly discussed blowing up Lancaster Castle itself and freeing all of the women. There was another detail that made the gathering especially suspicious to authorities. Because it had taken place on Good Friday, the day Christians commemorate the crucifixion of the death of Jesus, they thought that that was a sign that this was devil work. It was traditionally

• 33:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  a solemn day associated with mourning, prayer, fasting, and abstinence, rather than celebration and feasting. Yet, according to the accusations, the people at Malkin Tower had gathered for a meal that included stolen mutton. In the intensely religious atmosphere, the timing and the nature of the gathering was seen as a deliberate violation of Christian observance. So Noel opened another investigation. This time, he turned to the people who had remained behind at Malkin Tower, including Alison's mother and Demdike's daughter, Elizabeth Device, who we previously introduced as Squinting Lizzie, along with Elizabeth's son, James,

• 33:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  and her nine-year-old daughter, Janet. Although Janet was only a child, she was about to become one of the most important witnesses in the entire case. So they're just plucking everyone else who's the rest of their family members who lived in the house once they were in prison, basically, to question them as well. Janet, nine years old, she described the gathering at Malkin Tower and identified people she claimed had been there, while James also gave authorities names of people he said had attended. Their accounts dramatically expanded the investigation, pulling more people into a case that had begun with Alison and John Law on the side of a road only weeks earlier, and now had all of these people

• 34:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  involved. Among those now accused were Elizabeth and James themselves, even though they're being questioned, they're also being accused, along with Alice Gray, Catherine Hewitt, a mother and son named Jane and John Bulcock, and Alice Nutter. Each had now been connected in some way to the gathering at Malkin Tower, but the accusations against them varied. Catherine would eventually be accused of murdering a woman named Anne Folds through witchcraft, while the case against Jane and John Bulcock rested heavily on their alleged presence at the gathering. Jenna even claimed that John had helped turn the stolen lamb

• 35:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  that they had as it roasted over the fire, which basically she was just like, he's involved, like he even helped cook. Alice Nutter stood apart from many of the other people who had been accused so far, because she was the only one who wasn't poor. She actually came from a very wealthy family who owned a lot of land, but she was also identified as one of the people at the gathering. Despite her wealth and her social standing in the county, those accusations were enough to pull Alice into the growing investigation as well. Another woman connected, and there's a lot of names here, and we'll like, they'll come

• 35:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  up again. So if you're getting lost, don't worry, we'll like revisit these.

• 36:04Danielle LaRock?

  I don't want to take away from the seriousness of this, but I'm going to tell you right now, I will not forget the name Bulcock. So there's that.

• 36:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  There is that. It's quite a last name. It makes a statement.

• 36:18Danielle LaRock?

  I'm remembering. Yep. The guy cooked. That was his link.

• 36:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  His role.

• 36:26Danielle LaRock?

  His role. Yeah.

• 36:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Another woman connected to the gathering, Janet Preston, lived across the county border in Yorkshire and would be sent to stand trial separately at York. The others were sent toward Lancaster, joining the prisoners already being held there. So she was just like, not in the right county, but they still wanted to charge her for something. With her mother, brother, and sister now imprisoned at Lancaster Castle, nine-year-old Janet was left behind. Roger Noel took Janet into his care, meaning that for the months leading up to the trials, the child, who would eventually become one of the prosecution's most important witnesses, was living under the care of the same man who was investigating and prosecuting

• 37:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  her family for witchcraft, and then would be asked to testify against them.

• 37:18Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So, and she's a child.

• 37:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  She's nine.

• 37:22Danielle LaRock?

  Easily influenced child. Yeah, that has no idea what's going on.

• 37:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Has no family, and I'm sure he came in and he's like, I'll take care of you. Like, I'll give you food. Like, I'm so sorry this happened. I have money. I know you've been living in squalor. Like, here's some food. I'll take care of you. Tell me what they've been doing to you, kind of thing. Messed up. For months, all of the prisoners remained confined inside Lancaster Castle, believed to have been held in an underground dungeon of the Well Tower. These were small, stone-floor spaces, and the castle's early prison cells lacked many of the most basic things we associate with human confinement today, including adequate sanitation, water, and even light. They were just in the darkness.

• 38:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Prisoners could be crowded together for long periods and later accounts from 17th century inmates described part of the castle prison as exposed to rain and wind and so unpleasant that even visiting officials were reluctant to enter. And that kind of reminded me of when we were in Scotland and we visited, I'm forgetting the name of the castle, maybe you remember where Outlander was filmed and they had the whipping scene there. Well, it's this castle and I remember they had a specific display talking about how they basically had different levels of prisoners there and people who like political prisoners who are really rich and well-connected basically got their whole, a whole floor of this beautiful tower

• 38:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  overlooking the ocean while the poor people who were imprisoned there got the basement that would actually get flooded with the incoming tides of the ocean and they would constantly get wet and windblown and it was just like horrific, horrific conditions. And that was just kind of what this tower reminded me of where it's freezing, there's wind, there's no light, it's dirty, it's just, it's, it's really horrible. I looked it up. It's Blackness Castle. Blackness Castle. They did some messed up things there. Sure did. And it portrayed Fort William in Outlander. Okay. I haven't seen Outlander, so. Oh, right. Okay. That means nothing to me, but I believe.

• 39:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  That explains the blank. Like, ah, yes. Ah, yes. Ah, yes. Have you started? Well, oh no, we were at another castle, Outlander Castle. Which one was it? Was it Lollybrook or something? Or was it that one where we bought Outlander? It was the same. It was the same castle. No, it wasn't. Well, the one I'm talking about. No, the one we got the book and the one that had the thing on the water. Oh, wait. No, those are different castles. Those were different for sure. One wasn't near water at all. I know. Well, my question was, have you begun reading Outlander? No. That we bought at that second castle.

• 40:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  I haven't. Have you? I know you started, but have you like gotten? No, I haven't done anything. Going through it. Um, I read the first like 200 pages on the way, like on the plane ride home, but then I haven't picked it back up. I am interested in it, but I'm kind of already in a series right now and I can't, I'm in the Akatar world. Oh, you're deep. Yeah. I'm deep. I'm deep in a world right now and she has a new book coming out and I can't dedicate my time to. Or two, I thought. She has two, but one's coming out. I believe it's the 28th of this month. Um, her, the next one. And so I'm committed. I'm already in a relationship with a series and I can't

• 41:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  undergo that one yet, but. No, understandable. I am interested. I know people love it. It's just, it's not the, it's not the right time. Yeah. And that's understandable. It's a huge undertaking. There's so many books and they're all so long. It's very similar. Like, I feel like commitment of time as compared to Akatar and all the other, I know, aren't they related, but they're also different Akatar and whatever else is happening over there. Yeah, they're kind of like, they're the same, they're like same world, but different parts of that world, if that makes sense. Um, yeah. And like different characters and

• 41:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  storylines and stuff throughout. But yeah, so I'm, I'm in deep. I'm in deep and I can't get out of it. So. Well, circling back to the castle conditions and the conditions for all of these women who are now imprisoned there, it was especially difficult for someone who is older, especially someone like Demdike, her grandmother, who is in her eighties. Uh, it was really dangerous for her to be there and she didn't survive long enough to make it to trial. Sometime before the trial began, that August, she died inside Lancaster Castle without being found guilty of anything and it was likely due to the conditions of her confinement.

• 42:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Nearly four months after the first prisoners were sent to Lancaster Castle, the judges finally arrived on Monday, August 17th, 1612. And the following day, the trials of the people accused in Pendle were underway. For the prisoners, this was nothing like entering a modern courtroom where they would be represented by attorneys who had spent months preparing their defense. People accused of witchcraft in early 17th century England generally did not have a defense counsel speaking for them. The Pendle defendants had no lawyers to challenge the prosecution's witnesses or build their cases for them and prisoners were not allowed to call witnesses to testify on their behalf. Much of the evidence consisted of statements

• 43:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  and confessions Roger Noel had gathered during the investigation months earlier, along with accusations made by neighbors and in several cases, members of the defendant's own family. So basically they're like, this is all the evidence we have against you and you're not allowed to rebuke any of it. And you can also not have anyone come on the stand and vouch for your character or give you an alibi or anything like that. Yeah, it's very one-sided. It's almost like. You have no shot. They had their minds made up before any of this went to trial. Yeah, they're like, yeah, we do trials to make, to make it fair. To give you a chance. Yeah. To give you a chance, but it was really just to prove, like, it kind of felt like

• 43:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  they were just like proving that, trying to prove their right and like, yep, we got them and make a spectacle of the whole thing before, um, they put them to death.

• 44:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  If your dog is anything like my dog, Ember, you know how much they love to run around and explore. We're lucky enough that we have a lot of land at our home, which means that she has plenty of space to roam and she takes full advantage of it. But as much as I love watching her enjoy herself, I always want to make sure she's safe. That's why I've been loving her FIVE GPS tracker. One of my favorite features with FIVE is being able to set a safe boundary around my property right from my phone. If Ember ever wanders outside that area, FIVE sends me an alert so I know she's left her designated safe zone. I can also pull up the app and see exactly where she is in real time. It gives me so much peace of mind knowing that she can enjoy exploring and running around our yard while I have an extra layer of protection in case she ever wanders a little too far. FIVE makes the world's

• 44:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  smartest GPS and health trackers for dogs and cats. Trusted by millions of pet parents worldwide, FIVE answers the two things you want to know, where they are and how they're doing. I just love being able to see how active Ember has been throughout the day, especially because we're always walking outside, hiking and exploring together. And if your pet ever does go missing, FIVE even has a search party feature that lets you bring friends, family and nearby FIVE members into the search to help get them home safely. It's such a great tool for anyone who wants to give their pets a little more freedom without sacrificing their peace of mind. Get peace of mind with FIVE. Right now, FIVE is offering our listeners up to 30% off and free shipping when you visit fitracking.com and enter promo code

• 45:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  NPAD. That's F I tracking.com promo code NPAD. I am such a fan of makeup that looks natural and doesn't feel like I'm wearing a ton of product, which is why I've been loving the just enough tinted moisturizer from Jones Road Beauty. I love having something I can quickly throw on in the morning that evens out my complexion without feeling like I'm wearing a full face of makeup, especially when I'm traveling or spending time outdoors. I want something lightweight that lets my natural skin show through while giving me a little bit of coverage. Jones Road Beauty was created by legendary makeup artist Bobby Brown and her philosophy is all about enhancing your natural beauty rather than covering it up. If you're like me and love that natural,

• 46:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  no makeup makeup look, you have to check it out. Modern day makeup that's clean, strategic and multifunctional for effortless routines. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free full-size mascara on their first purchase when they use code NPAD at checkout. Just head to jonesbeauty.com and use code NPAD at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

• 46:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yet some of the most damaging evidence at Lancaster did not come from Roger Noel, or from any of the adults who had accused one another. It actually came from Elizabeth Device's nine-year-old daughter, Janet. When Janet was brought forward to testify against her, her mother Elizabeth erupted. She began shouting and cursing at her daughter so violently that the court ordered Elizabeth removed before Janet continued giving evidence. The prosecution was then able to question a nine-year-old child without a parent present. And before, I mean, they were just testifying against her mom, but of course, the mom is flipping out.

• 47:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  But Janet told the court that she believed her mother was a witch. She described a spirit or familiar associated with Elizabeth and gave evidence about her mother's alleged involvement in witchcraft. Her brother James had also given evidence against Elizabeth during earlier examinations, including allegations involving clay figures supposedly used to harm people. The prosecution also returned again and again to the gathering at Malkin Tower. Janet testified that around 20 people had been present on Good Friday. James Device's examination went even further, alleging that those gathered had discussed freeing Allison, Demdike, Shaddick, and Anne Redfern from Lancaster Castle, killing people

• 48:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  that were there, and blowing up the castle so the prisoners could escape. By the end of Tuesday, August 18th, just a day later, Elizabeth Device, James Device, and Old Shaddick had all been found guilty. The trials continued the following day for the other people. On Wednesday, August 19th, more of the accused were brought before the court. Among them were several of the people who had been swept into the investigation specifically because of the gathering at Malkin Tower. There was Catherine Hewitt, Allison Nutter, and Jane Bulcock and her son, John. Anne Redfern, Old Shaddick's daughter, who had been imprisoned before the Malkin Tower gathering ever took place, was also brought to court.

• 48:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Alice remained one of the strangest people to be caught up in the investigation. She had not confessed to anything and denied being at Malkin Tower. But Janet identified her as one of the people she remembered seeing there, so the court apparently tested Janet's ability to identify her. Alice was placed among other people, and Janet was asked to identify the woman she knew as Alice Nutter. The nine-year-old walked to Alice, took her by the hand, and identified her. In the eyes of the court, Janet's ability to recognize Alice strengthened the credibility of her testimony. In turn, Alice Nutter was found guilty. So was Catherine Hewitt. Jane Bulcock and her son, John, were also convicted.

• 49:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  All four had been among the people accused of attending the Good Friday gathering at Malkin Tower. Anne Redfern, Shaddick's daughter, was found guilty as well. And then came Allison. Nearly five months had passed since she had encountered John Law on the road. The peddler had survived, and now he and his son Abraham appeared at Lancaster to give evidence against her. Allison did not deny what had happened. She faced John Law again. She acknowledged her guilt and asked for his forgiveness. The peddle defendants were not the only people being tried for witchcraft at Lancaster that week.

• 50:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  The same judges were hearing several other witchcraft cases from across Lancashire, including that of a woman named Isabel Robbie from Wendell near St. Helens. Isabel had no connection to the Device or Shaddick's family and had not been accused of attending the gathering at Malkin Tower. Her case had developed separately after people in her own community accused her of using witchcraft to make them sick. One man, Peter Shaddick, claimed that after he called Isabel a witch, he was struck by severe pain throughout his body. Another woman, Jane Wilkinson, claimed that she had become suddenly ill after refusing to give Isabel milk. Isabel pleaded not guilty when she was brought before the court on August 19th, but the jury

• 51:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  convicted her of witchcraft. That meant that when the court gathered the condemned prisoners together for sentencing, there were nine people from the pendle prosecutions and one woman from a completely separate witchcraft case. Ten people were condemned to die. Anne Wendell, better known as Old Shaddick, Anne Redfern, Elizabeth Device, James Device, Allison Device, Alice Nutter, Catherine Hewitt, Jane Bulcock, John Bulcock, and Isabel Robbie. Alice Gray, another woman caught up in the accusations surrounding Malkin Tower, was surprisingly acquitted. The judge ordered the ten condemned prisoners returned to Lancaster Castle.

• 51:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  From there, the judge told them that they would be taken to the county's place of execution, where they would be hanged until dead. He urged them to use what little time remained to repent and prepare themselves for death because they did not have long. The following day, August 20th, 1612, the ten condemned prisoners were taken from the Lancaster Castle and led out of town towards the moor above Lancaster to the place where public executions were carried out. The exact location of the gallows has been debated over the centuries, but is generally associated with what became known as Gallows Hill on Lancaster Moor. From that high ground, Lancaster Castle would have still been visible behind them.

• 52:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Their execution was public. We don't know how many people gathered on Lancaster Moor that day, but executions in 17th century England were public events, intended not only to punish the condemned, but to serve as a warning to everyone else who watched. The prisoners would have faced the gallows surrounded not only by officials and executioners, but by people who had come to witness them die. There are no reliable surviving accounts of the final words spoken by Allison, Elizabeth, James, Shaddick, Alice Nutter, or the others that morning. We don't know whether they prayed, protested their innocence, confessed, comforted one another, or said nothing at all.

• 53:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  We don't know what Allison said to her mother, what Elizabeth said to her children, or what passed between Old Shaddick and her daughter Anne, as they stood together, knowing that they were about to die. Those final moments between them were never recorded. But hanging in 1612 did not work the way many of us picture hangings today. There was no long fall designed to break the neck and kill someone almost instantly, which is still horrific, but is

• 53:43Danielle LaRock?

  Executed properly.

• 53:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is a quicker way.

• 53:45Danielle LaRock?

  Or done properly. I shouldn't have, yeah.

• 53:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 53:48Danielle LaRock?

  You know what I mean?

• 53:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. It's still horrific, but they had, they later had ways to do it more efficiently, which is also a horrible way to say it, but you know what I'm trying to say.

• 54:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Um, well, that method would not be developed until centuries later. Instead, a rope was placed around the condemned person's neck while they stood on some form of support, such as a cart or a ladder. The support was taken away, leaving the person suspended from the rope. Because there was little or no drop, their necks usually did not break. Instead, the weight of the person's own body tightened the rope around their neck, restricting the airway and the blood vessels carrying blood to and from the brain. Death could take several minutes rather than seconds. This was what was known as a short drop hanging, although in some executions, there was essentially no drop at all.

• 54:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  With the short drop method, there was no design to break their neck and kill someone fast. The people who were condemned to die suffered for a long time. So that day, one by one, the ten people condemned at Lancaster were hanged. But this was not the only witch trial happening at the time. Before those same judges, on those same days as the other trials, three women, Jane Southworth, Janet Burley, and Ellen Burley were accused of witchcraft, murder, and cannibalism. Their accuser was a teenage girl named Grace Sourbutz, who was related to two of the women she accused. Janet Burley was her grandmother, and Ellen Burley was her aunt.

• 55:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  These were obvious parallels to what was happening in the pendle courtroom, but this case ended very differently. As Grace's accusations were examined more closely, her story began to fall apart. She eventually admitted that what she had said was false and claimed that a Catholic priest named Christopher Southworth, also known as Thompson, had coached her in what to say. Jane, Janet, and Ellen were all acquitted at the same time these other women's were sentenced to death. And man. Because Joan was also included.

• 56:02Danielle LaRock?

  What happened to, uh, sorry, I forget her first name. I'm just Sourbutz is also.

• 56:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know, I said that.

• 56:10Danielle LaRock?

  Crazy name. Um, but is, did she have any sort of, were they like, oh, okay? Or did she get reprimanded in any way? Or did she suffer any sort of consequence for falsely accusing others of witchcraft?

• 56:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Um, it seems like they were just kind of like, oh, okay. Nice case. There was nothing that I saw that prosecuted her after for lying.

• 56:36Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Just curious.

• 56:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  After the executions of 1612, Janet, the daughter, disappeared from the historical record for more than 20 years. We know very little about what became of her in the years immediately following the trials. But in 1634, another witchcraft investigation erupted in Lancashire and the name Janet Device appeared again. This time, the accusations came from a 10-year-old boy named Edmund Robinson, who claimed that while gathering berries, he encountered two greyhounds, one of which transformed into a woman. His story eventually led him to describe a gathering of witches where people feasted together, and as authorities

• 57:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  pursued his accusations, around 20 people were implicated. Among them was Janet Device, believed by many historians to have been the same Janet who had testified against her family 22 years earlier.

• 57:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeesh.

• 57:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  If it was her, obviously, the reversal is extraordinary here. She accused, and now she's being accused. Now, at 31 years old, she found herself on the opposite side of another child's story, and it's a child accusing her now. And she was accused of being a witch because a young person claimed to have seen her doing something.

• 58:04Danielle LaRock?

  Transforming from a dog.

• 58:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Transforming from a dog, or yeah, or a greyhound into a dog, yeah. However, this time, the accusations were subjected to a lot of scrutiny. Edmund was eventually brought to London and questioned where his story unraveled, and he admitted that he had lied. And in this case, the accused were not executed, although records show that a woman named Janet Device was still imprisoned in Lancaster in 1636. And after that, her name disappears from all record. So she was imprisoned for it, and it shows that she was, according to the record, and it could have been lost and something could have happened, but it seems like she was accused, imprisoned, and never released.

• 58:50Danielle LaRock?

  Ooh.

• 58:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Witchcraft prosecutions in England certainly did not end with Pendle. Some of the country's deadliest witch hunts were still to come, including the East Anglian witch hunts of the 1640s, when hundreds of people were accused and many were executed. Yet, the Pendle Trials became one of the most enduring stories of English witchcraft, and that is because it was more well documented. Much of the detail survived because Thomas Potts, a clerk connected to the court proceedings at the time, compiled an account of the trials that was published in 1613 as "The Wonderful Discovery of Witches in the County of Lancaster", is the title of his book. The Wonderful Discovery, that sounds like a fantasy book,

• 59:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  not a horrific trial of murdering people. His book was not a like neutral word-for-word script, though. It was very biased, and it was clearly written from a perspective. It wasn't just like a typed, I say typed, like they had, but it wasn't just like a written word-for-word account of what happened at the trial.

• 1:00:00Danielle LaRock?

  It was his interpretation of...

• 1:00:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  For sure.

• 1:00:03Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 1:00:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  For sure. In 2012, marking the 400th anniversary of the trials, a bronze statue of Alice Nutter was unveiled in Rowley near Pendle Hill. She is shown walking forward in 17th century clothing with her hands shackled in front of her, and visitors continue to leave flowers and other offerings for her. It would be easy to think that this kind of fear that fueled the Pendle Witch Trials disappeared centuries ago. But the accusations of witchcraft are still very real. In parts of the world today, including Ghana, Papua New Guinea, and India, people accused of using witchcraft have been driven from their

• 1:00:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  communities, attacked, and even killed. The belief has not disappeared from the United States either. In 2022, Tennessee pastor Greg Locke told his congregation that demons had revealed to him the identities of six witches who had infiltrated his church, claiming that he knew their names and threatened to expose them publicly. History has shown us just how dangerous accusations like these can become. The women accused of witchcraft and murdered were mothers and grandmothers, wives and widows, healers and midwives, women living in poverty, and women who had possessed property, money, or independence of their

• 1:01:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  own. There was no single kind of woman who is safe from suspicion, and once accused, a woman could lose her reputation, her family, her possessions, her freedom, and ultimately her life. So I will end the episode with this. Perhaps one of the most important lessons we can carry forward from stories like Pendle is that we have to stop finding reasons to fear, blame, and punish women for being different, outspoken, knowledgeable, independent, or powerful. Women are not something to be feared or controlled. We are capable, intelligent,

• 1:02:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  and strong, and we deserve to be admired, cherished, and most importantly, given the freedom and safety to thrive. Whether a woman chooses to become a mother, build a career, live independently, or some combination of all of those things, her choices and her power should belong to her. Knowing what happened to the women who came before us gives us an obligation to protect that progress, continue opening doors for the women who come next, and make sure that we never again turn women's knowledge or success into something for which it should be feared or punished. And that is my story of the Pendle Forest witch trials.

• 1:02:56Danielle LaRock?

  Good. Once again, super heavy with everything you learn. I mean, going back to, well, first of all, wait a second, beautiful ending.

• 1:03:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you.

• 1:03:10Danielle LaRock?

  That was great. But earlier in the episode, when you, we talked briefly, going back to King James VI, when he was trying to come back from, I almost said his honeymoon, but with his wife from Denmark and the ships thing, that was all just weather, bad weather events that sparked that whole thing. And then going back to your, to the Pendle Forest, after a man encountered, happened to encounter women, and then happened to suffer a stroke

• 1:03:45Danielle LaRock?

  shortly thereafter, pinned it on them. It's like, these events that we know now are totally unrelated to anything to do with women. It just makes you wonder how 200, 300 years from now, people will be reflecting back on today, and the things that we were, you know, how women were treated in the present day, you know? And because it seems so crazy to us now, looking back at those things. It's like, how could you have ever believed that those things were related?

• 1:04:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think we're gonna look back on, I think we're gonna look back on today's time and think, how could we have ever thought this for women now? I mean,

• 1:04:37Danielle LaRock?

  Or treated them in this way, or had them...

• 1:04:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Even right now, I think we're feeling that, especially as women. We're like, what the fuck, everyone? Why are we, you know, there's a lot of backwards things that are happening specifically towards women, where there's like, an argument of, people are talking about taking women's right to vote away again, and people are talking about women belong in the kitchen again. And there's just like a lot of weird rhetoric that's going around online, and from a lot of young people, too, saying women shouldn't have the right to vote, women's places at home in the kitchen, women, like, it just, there's some scary rhetoric going around about women right now.

• 1:05:18Danielle LaRock?

  But the, but the benefit of women today is that we have hindsight, you know, we can look back on these...

• 1:05:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  We have the knowledge.

• 1:05:31Danielle LaRock?

  We have the knowledge, because back then, you know, of course, I'm sure all of these individuals were, at some point or another, Thinking this is so unfair, but they had no pride, like they were just such victims to the times, especially they had no other choice. And also, you know, there was real fear at the time, too, because I remember in How to Kill a Witch, one of the first things that they opened with was, hey, before we even get into all this, there's something you gotta know and you have to keep in mind throughout this entire book because your brain is going to want to be like, how the fuck did this happen? And how did people go

• 1:06:13Danielle LaRock?

  off the rails this deep? Like, how did this happen? And you have to remember there was such like, to us reading it now, it's like, yeah, we saw the devil or the devil came to me or whatever. And we're like, what? Like, we don't, what are you talking about? But back then, they just so deeply, I mean, religion was just such a deeply ingrained in every single person.

• 1:06:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Going back to like the knowledge thing, like we have knowledge. I think what's beneficial for women today is that we have the knowledge that these things have happened. And when all of these witch trials were happening, if you really go back and think about it, even though the witch trials in Scotland had happened and the demonology book had been published and King James had come from Scotland and now he's in England and stuff, that doesn't necessarily mean anyone in England knew what was going on. And same thing with the Salem witch trials. What was happening in Salem, a lot of people, most people probably had no idea what had happened in England and in Scotland. So there's just such a disconnect. And now today, we have the knowledge and we have books and we have histories that have

• 1:07:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  been written and we have podcasts that tell stories of dark histories. And so there's just, there's so many avenues to learn now, which is certainly an advantage to women. But I think for this episode, for me, what I just wanted people to be able to take away from it is that the idea of the witch trials isn't necessarily this like spooky oaky thing for Halloween. This was a real atrocity towards women and some men, some men were affected, like in this story, but primarily women. And when people, we always say like witches are burned at the stake, witches were hanged. And it's like, no, women, women were hanged,

• 1:08:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  which is like you're, when you refer to these women as witches, you're making them seem like they're not a person. And it kind of removes you from it a little bit. And kind of what I wanted to bring to this episode was just to remind people that these are stories that happened very much to women and not this whole witchcraft thing that we like to paint around it.

• 1:08:25Danielle LaRock?

  Well, thank you for sharing. And I learned a lot because I hadn't heard anything about the Pendle Forest trials.

• 1:08:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Me either.

• 1:08:35Danielle LaRock?

  But it is, it's kind of like building blocks a little bit because we had that foundational knowledge of James VI slash first and his kind of origin story and demonology and kind of like, even when you were saying, I know it was a little bit of a passing thing, but the Prickers, like, we learned a lot about that. And yeah, it's just like the, I feel like we've just like built, they kind of build on each other and you can follow the thread of similarities through all these different trials, even in the US, you know?

• 1:09:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:20Danielle LaRock?

  So it's quite interesting when you get to have it all kind of laid out and you can really follow patterns.

• 1:09:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And I mean, this is just touching the surface of it, right? I mean, this is just a tiny, I don't want to say tiny story because it was a really big deal, especially for the people who are affected by it. But if this is something that you're interested in, I mean, there are so many books and there's so many stories of so many different people. Like you mentioned at the beginning of this, 4,000 people in Scotland.

• 1:09:51Danielle LaRock?

  In Scotland.

• 1:09:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's, there's so much to learn and unpack here that this is really just grazing the surface.

• 1:09:57Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And I know there's one in Iceland, on our list for a while, in Iceland, and we have been kind of.

• 1:10:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  We haven't been doing it because we can't pronounce any of the names and you guys are gonna yell at us.

• 1:10:09Danielle LaRock?

  You're bullies.

• 1:10:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'll say. You're bullies and we can't cover Iceland because you're all gonna yell at us for mispronouncing.

• 1:10:16Danielle LaRock?

  Pronouncing.

• 1:10:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, we need to do, it would be so funny, as if we did an Iceland episode, but every time an Iceland name came on, we had an Icelandic person just read the name for us. So it like cut from us saying it to like them.

• 1:10:33Danielle LaRock?

  Or just play, what is it, Julian or whatever, the guy that comes up that has the pronunciation, which by the way, also unhelpful. I never really listened to his videos, even though he has a video on almost every word I need pronounced, but he does it in such a robotic way. I always try.

• 1:10:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  And he has an accent.

• 1:10:57Danielle LaRock?

  And he has an accent. So I'm like, are we sure this is how it's supposed to be spoken? But.

• 1:11:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, I have questions.

• 1:11:05Danielle LaRock?

  And I know we have an accent to other, uh, right, right. Non-English speaking people. So I don't know, his is just really strong. So it's kind of hard for our ear to understand what he's trying to say, when we already don't understand what it's supposed to be, what it's supposed to be originally. And so I all, I don't know if you do this, but when I'm looking up pronunciations, I'll try and get, um, like either a news clip or somebody like actively saying the word in a conversation or a video, but then it goes by so fast, especially in another language.

• 1:11:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  How do you know if they're right? I do. Especially if you're listening to like a YouTube video or and you're trying to hear like someone say it correctly. Um, it's like, well, I'm trusting this person saying it correct. But if they're wrong, yeah, there's a lot of ways to pronounce words, but we're, we're trying our best.

• 1:12:03Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it gets under, I got, I'll call it out right now. There's a.

• 1:12:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Really grinds my gears.

• 1:12:09Danielle LaRock?

  It really gets me.

• 1:12:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fucking piss.

• 1:12:11Danielle LaRock?

  Research an episode for weeks. Oh, you already know what I'm about to say. I, I forgot what episode it was. It was kind of recent, but yeah, we pour a lot of hours into creating each episode, if that wasn't apparent. But there was this one comment, it was from one of my, oh, I know, it was from the Children's Blizzard episode. And somebody had commented like, did you mean to say, I don't know, I don't even forget, I forget. It was a pronunciation of a last name. That's all I remember. And they're like, you couldn't take two minutes to look this up? Like, I can't.

• 1:12:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  I took so many minutes to research this.

• 1:12:53Danielle LaRock?

  Do you know how many minutes?

• 1:12:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Limit does not exist.

• 1:12:58Danielle LaRock?

  But yeah, I'm like.

• 1:13:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like scrap the whole episode.

• 1:13:06Danielle LaRock?

  So I fucking forget the whole episode that, no, I don't know. Um, but yeah, it's just like, it's like, girl, do you even know, we were trying to pronounce, look up pronunciations, just know.

• 1:13:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  You try knowing every word of the English language, plus other languages occasionally.

• 1:13:24Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So, long story short, we're not covering the Icelandic witch trials.

• 1:13:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because you guys have not allowed us. And this is your fault.

• 1:13:36Danielle LaRock?

  So, think about that.

• 1:13:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  We do love you guys, though. And we're like mostly joking. And I mean, it's, I personally am not offended by like literally anything. Um, I just think it's fun to talk about. And Daniel is. So between the two of us.

• 1:13:52Danielle LaRock?

  There's a nice middle ground there.

• 1:13:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Danielle LaRock?

  There's a nice middle ground. Um, yeah. You know, who's really good at like taking, letting that roll off their back?

• 1:14:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Who?

• 1:14:04Danielle LaRock?

  Um, Taylor and Morgan at Creeps and Crimes.

• 1:14:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:08Danielle LaRock?

  They're really good at it.

• 1:14:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Pronounce things.

• 1:14:11Danielle LaRock?

  All the time. Yeah. Morgan's like, I can't say wolf. She says woof or woof or something like that. And she's like, I literally can't say it. And you guys can, I'm sorry, but just.

• 1:14:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like for the occasional times that word comes up, you're just gonna have to deal.

• 1:14:25Danielle LaRock?

  You know what I mean? You know, it's like, you know what I'm trying to say. But anyway.

• 1:14:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Danielle LaRock?

  Same.

• 1:14:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, same for all of the words.

• 1:14:34Danielle LaRock?

  You guys are just unbothered queens. And I'm here, I'm like, no, I'll learn, I'll learn Icelandic, whatever. I'll do it. Just be nice to me.

• 1:14:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Please, I'm trying so hard.

• 1:14:49Danielle LaRock?

  Um, okay. Well, that's it. Um, thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. Why are you laughing?

• 1:14:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just so funny. You're like, yeah, and I'm mad. And then you're like, thank you all for listening.

• 1:15:04Danielle LaRock?

  No, I appreciate everyone except for that one person who said that.

• 1:15:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh.

• 1:15:08Danielle LaRock?

  Trust me, they're not listening. And if they are.

• 1:15:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  They stopped after that word.

• 1:15:14Danielle LaRock?

  They did. That last name, they were like, this bitch doesn't know anything. After I just discussed the history of the weather service and whatever the fuck else I was saying.

• 1:15:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  But yeah, thank you for listening.

• 1:15:31Danielle LaRock?

  Thanks for listening. And enjoy the view.

• 1:15:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back. Okay, bye.

• 1:15:39Danielle LaRock?

  Bye.

• 1:15:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more NPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark. For more stories just like this one with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.

• 1:16:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yet the Pendle Trials are the one that have become one of the most enduring stories of English witchcraft. You can just take that sentence out. I can't fucking say it. Okay.

• 1:16:33Danielle LaRock?

  Fucking scrap it.

• 1:16:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fucking get it out of here. Actually, that sentence is important.

• 1:16:46Danielle LaRock?

  Bring it back, game.

• 1:16:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm like, why'd I say it? But the next sentence describes why I said it.

• 1:16:50Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bring her back. Bring her back. Okay.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do you even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. They're basically the baby gates of insurance. Get a quote at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.