This Solopreneur Called Me to Fix His $20k/mo SaaS

Join me as I chat with Jack Friks, founder of PostBridge and marketer Gabe Fletcher about how to address PostBridge's 20% churn rate. Gabe provides a strategic framework for reducing churn, including creating a community around the product, embedding Jack's personality into the tool, collecting better user data, and developing a unique product metric. The conversation explores how positioning, pricing, and user experience can be optimized to increase retention. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction and purpose of the discussion 02:47 - PostBridge Overview 04:17 - Old Way vs New Way 11:15 - PostBridge Positioning 16:17 - Getting More User Data 19:05 - Email Marketing 22:32 - Onboarding Flow 24:57 - Indie Founder Trend 32:32 - Clear Positioning/Gamifying 39:34 - Importance of YouTube 47:39 -Creating A Unique Product Metric 54:23 - Market expansion strategies 01:02:08 - Data and Mission Drift 01:05:42 - The Team Around Jack 01:07:14 - World Building Explained Key Points: • Jack Friks' product PostBridge is making $20,000 MRR but facing significant churn issues • Gabe Fletcher provides a comprehensive analysis of how to reduce churn through multiple strategies • The importance of creating a unique product identity and embedding the founder's personality into the product • Strategies for data collection, user engagement, and expanding beyond a single platform The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ Boringmarketing - Vibe Marketing for Companies: boringmarketing.com The Vibe Marketer - Join the Community and Learn: thevibemarketer.com Startup Empire - a membership for builders who want to build cash-flowing businesses https://www.skool.com/startupempire/about FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND JACK ON SOCIAL: PostBridge: https://www.post-bridge.com X/Twitter: https://x.com/jackfriks FIND GABE ON SOCIAL: X/Twitter: https://x.com/makershelpdesk

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Isenberg?

  You may have heard of Jack Fricks. He's a solopreneur who is living in his mom's basement and then figured out a way to make $20,000 MRR with his software PostBridge. But he's been dealing with a huge retention issue. And I think that there's thousands of business owners or entrepreneurs who are dealing with retention as well. So today's an episode like no other. We're actually gonna go through how to fix Jack's retention. We're gonna give him a ton of ideas on how he should do it. This isn't the sexiest video. I will, I'll be honest. This is like a lot of material, but I think that anyone who sticks to the end is going to be better at fighting retention.

• 0:41Greg Isenberg?

  And you need to know how to fight retention if you're gonna be a successful founder. Otherwise, you're gonna be losing your customers left, right, and center. So I'm excited for you to stick to the end, to like this episode, to comment on it, and just go through this so that you can be a solopreneur that makes at least $20,000 a month like Jack. Enjoy the episode.

• 1:16Greg Isenberg?

  This has never been done before. I don't think on the history of the internet, I saw Gabe breaking down Jack's software, PostBridge. I think he's making $20,000 a month from his solopreneur software. And Jack's been dealing with a bit of a retention issue, a churn issue, and he's been fighting that good fight. And Gabe actually had some amazing advice on how to reduce churn. So I brought both of them on. And Gabe, by the end of this episode, what are people gonna get out of this?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  I think that people are gonna realize that their source of user base can come from more than one place. And ultimately, everything needs to have a direction and it needs to be pointed in one way. So hopefully, at the end of this, everybody can kind of go and look at their app and their stack and their their audience stack, so to speak, and figure out where their holes are, and then start to plug them and point them in the correct direction.

• 2:13Greg Isenberg?

  Okay, so you're gonna be like a doctor. You're gonna be like doctor retention for Jack.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Is that my new my new skick right there?

• 2:20Greg Isenberg?

  Exactly. That's exactly. And you're going to you're gonna hopefully get Jack from 20K to 50K MRR. And in the process, you know, Jack's gonna get a lot of of good stuff out of this, but also people are gonna have some good takeaways around for their own self own products, how to fight the good retention fight. So without further ado, well, welcome, Jack, welcome, Gabe. And let's see what you can do.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  All right. I think I maybe we start a little bit with Jack. Jack, tell us a little bit about PostBridge and tell us a little bit about what PostBridge is.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  I mean, basically, PostBridge is a software I made for myself just to post, you know, one post from one place to all platforms. So I started with, you know, videos and I wanted to post on a TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, etc. And just from one place. So I built it. And it's basically now a scheduling tool that lets you post in multiple places from once. But yeah, like, right now, we're facing or I'm facing quite a bit of churn because it's really just me. And it's been like a very big hurdle to really figure out, you know, how to tackle this. And I think you kind of alluded to on Twitter already that you have a plan and I'm excited to kind of see where you take it.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Okay. How many users do you have now, Jack? Roughly?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  I like active subscribers, 1,500.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  1,500. That's a solid user base for founder led, I think. Like, there's a lot of founder led SaaS guys that don't have anywhere near that number. So just so you're aware of who I am, I'm just a lifelong marketer and I'm an ADD tech-enabled entrepreneur. I do a lot of different things in like a normal marketing agency space. Jack, when I saw you posted about churn and that was being your mission, what I did was, because I've been watching you for a while, I kind of zoomed out and and I think that You know, on the screen now you can kind of see the old way was one person, one thing, one product, one channel. And for you, that was you, X and Twitter.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Right? Like you grew on Twitter and that's where you've, that's where you grew your audience and you grew the tool. And I'm sure you've had some stints in a few other places, right? And, but now the new way is multiple connected people, meaning I think that you, you go from solving one person, one person's problem and helping adjacent people to that original person or ICP solve their problems. And ultimately you can enable a whole ecosystem of things that can work for your app and your product. Because you can have one product

• 5:12Speaker 01

  that enables other people to do the things that they need to do to succeed. And we just need to build the stack of all the different points that are available to you to point them into PostBridge. Maybe just a little bit of positioning. As we kind of move down here, this is like, I've, I think this is your OG image for your app. Right? And this is kind of what I envision PostBridge is. When I look, I look at your current, how you have it currently positioned and kind of what it does. And like, I imagine that this is kind of like, this is probably pretty accurate in terms of positioning, right?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  You don't need to fight because PostBridge can schedule all your posts to all your different platforms very, very quickly. Right?

• 6:01Greg Isenberg?

  What, Jack, I have a question. Like, what is the, you know, raison d'etre? Like, the reason to exist for PostBridge? Because when I look at this,

• 6:13Greg Isenberg?

  I'm like, well, doesn't that exist in other products? Like, why do people choose PostBridge?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  I mean, I think the main reason is really just like, well, one, the pricing, like, all the other social media schedulers, they cost absurd amounts, considering the costs to run them are not that high. Like, it is a SaaS, it is a software business. So I'm priced very, very fairly, like, you know, 10, 5 to 10x all of the other similar tools. And the second thing being that it's super simple. There's less features, and that's intentional. It's like a light version, but that also means that, you know, anyone can use it, and they can share with their team, and they can, they don't have to get confused, they don't have to learn a whole new stack. They just go into the tool, and it's like, okay, I click a few buttons, and it just works. It's like the bare minimum, and you pay for that, too. You're saving in time and costs. And I think that's

• 7:03Speaker 02

  why people choose PostBridge mainly.

• 7:05Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. So I tweeted, actually, the other day, I said, "Pricing strategy is a moat." So by you coming in as being like the cheapest, I think there is some value in like positioning that somewhere. Like, you know, what do you think, Gabe? Do you think that, you know, more of that positioning might help with conversion, maybe retention, or maybe it hurts retention? What do you think?

• 7:34Speaker 01

  I think it hurts retention, believe it or not, especially now, because the gap to, the gap to building something yourself is small. It's very small. But that, and that's just within your immediate reach of people, Jack, like who you're exposed to. But I think, I think that you're missing the larger piece of the audience you could be capturing. And it's, I think that the low price point invites people who probably do what we call tool jumping. They try a little bit of everything and jump around on different things. And I think that a pricing adjustment, combined with a few other things, will probably net you a little bit more of a value-enabled audience.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  And I think that, you know, you can think about whatever app subscription you have, you know, that are consumer based. They're like 10 bucks a month. They're super cheap and people typically turn them on and off at will, and don't commit to really using them. And that's because I think, I don't think that value is instilled through the pricing and the messaging. So I think that's the biggest adjustment that we have here. Pricing, messaging, and then, and then availability or capture of additional, of an additional ICP. Greg, what do you think?

• 8:57Greg Isenberg?

  But then how does he stand out? Because if he's just going to increase prices, and then he just becomes another one of those tools. Like, you know, how do you, how do you think about that?

• 9:07Speaker 01

  And that's, that's what this part of this is going to be is pulling that apart and putting more of Jack into the tool. And I think that that's really, really important. We got to put Jack in the tool. Because right now Jack's got the idea. He's got the idea of, of, of what he wants in the tool, but he's not in the tool. He doesn't show up in it.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  So pricing is one, is only one piece. The goal isn't to raise it to the roof. The, the goal is only to raise it with the value that it actually brings. And I think that's what we're going to get into.

• 9:42Greg Isenberg?

  Okay. Yeah, I interrupted you. My bad.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  That's okay. That's okay. I mean, it is your pod. You know, it is your podcast.

• 9:51Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, if I can interrupt you on my podcast, like, where can I interrupt you, you know?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Exactly. So Jack, what is the thing that you're missing? And I think you need data. I think you need data at scale because we need input. And we need to structure it. And then we need to take action on it. And you've started that because you mentioned you're starting like user, user calls and like, you've been interviewing users and past users?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've had already, I think, seven or eight calls in the past two days and they've been going, it's been eye opening already. So I've been neglecting that for the last eight months and it's something that I need to catch up on for sure.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  What do you think, what do you think you uncovered that you previously didn't understand?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  I mean, so far, I think the main thing has been I've realized that my more of my ideal customer is someone who already has an existing business that's, you know, doing well. They're already posting their social medias and less so someone who is coming into this game brand new, who doesn't know how, you know, posting works. They don't know where to post, how much to post. Those people I can educate, but the other people that already have businesses that are already posting, they're already primed. They're already ready to use it and they're already like, you know, they're already willing to stay because it's so, it's such a good price for them too, that, you know, they just don't even think about it. Like one customer said, it's like chat GPT. They just have the subscription and it does the thing and they don't even think about the price.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  What do you think, Greg? Do you think, do you think that Jack's currently positioned to be the, he's, he's sniping the enabled audience to bring them into his, into his world? And I think that's a really small piece of the bucket.

• 11:31Greg Isenberg?

  So is the question, should Jack focus on like the newly solo entrepreneur who's, who has an idea and wants to put it into action or people who have existing social, like basically where should, is that, is that the question? Where should Jack?

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think, oh, I think what I'm asking you is, do you think that, do you think that Jack's current positioning is more aimed for the people who have an existing audience? Or do you think his current positioning says, uh, this is a tool, this is what it does, it's available to you?

• 12:07Greg Isenberg?

  So that to me, there's two, uh, there's two positionings. There's like Jack's positioning and then there's post bridge positioning and Jack is basically the top of the funnel and post bridge to me is like the middle of the funnel. Jack's positioning to me, and I consume his Instagram content and his X content is.

• 12:28Greg Isenberg?

  You know, mostly younger people who want to start their first company, who want to quit their job, who have this dream of doing software, basically who want to be Jack, people who want to be Jack. Jack is kind of living the dream. Like 12 months ago, he was making like, I don't know, a thousand dollars MRR or something like that, living in his mom's basement. Now he's, you know, look at him, he's in this like fancy apartment. He's got like fancy headphones and a fancy microphone and he's got all these followers and he's making $20,000 a month. Like people want to be Jack. So those people, that's, okay. So that's the positioning of Jack. And then the positioning of PostBridge. Can you actually pull up PostBridge, like the website?

• 13:11Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, the positioning here. And Jack, I love you. I love you.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready.

• 13:20Greg Isenberg?

  I love you. And also, we, my team just signed up to PostBridge yesterday. So like we were using the product. To me, it, it, it doesn't have a strong point of view. Like to me, when I read this, I'm like, okay, cool. I can schedule my content, you know, everywhere in seconds. But like I've seen, I, you know, I've seen this before. I've seen this, the only like value add to me, if you scroll down, is the, it's not expensive, you know? And then it's like, okay, no brainer. So it becomes like almost an impulse purchase. So the, so I think for, if, you know, for Jack, I think the question is, okay, what is Jack's content strategy? And then, and then from a positioning of PostBridge,

• 14:01Greg Isenberg?

  who's the ICP that, you know, that Jack wants to go after? Or, and also is the greatest opportunity? And that's also, Jack might actually might say like, you know what, the greatest opportunity is in people from switching from HootSuite to PostBridge or Buffer to PostBridge. But I actually don't care about that audience. I'd rather build a $25,000, $50,000 a month, $100,000 a month business focused on solopreneurs. So that's actually a question for you, Jack. Like, who, who, who lights you up? Like which audience lights you up? Is it the small business, small to medium sized business? Or is it, you know, the next generation of Jacks?

• 14:42Speaker 02

  I mean, like, I've never really thought of it that way, at least recently, because I've been doing user interviews and like I see, you know, there's a business and they're a very good customer, but I think when you ask it that way, I think the person, you know, who makes me excited is like building kind of for myself, but, but not just myself, like people who have, are where I was a year ago, right? Like as you alluded to, I am kind of building for previous Jack in a sense, and I do think that's the most like interesting way to go, although I still don't know if it's the right way to go.

• 15:19Greg Isenberg?

  My take is, there's, there's big enough markets in both, in both of those. The, the person who, who wants to be like Jack, who wants to be a solopreneur, who wants to like build something like this, that's one market. And then the, the other market around like small to medium sized businesses who are using a tool and getting them to switch, that it's, it's all, you know, the, the question is like, when, when you, when you, when you choose your market, you're kind of like, you're kind of sealing your destiny a little bit. So it's an important way, you know, you, you do kind of have to be very specific about who you're going after. And I think this is a mistake a lot of people make is they, they're

• 16:02Greg Isenberg?

  kind of like, yeah, we can work with small businesses and we can also work with solopreneurs.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:06Greg Isenberg?

  And that's, that's tough. And, and when you do that, oftentimes you have a retention issue.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 16:15Greg Isenberg?

  I have two quick notes on that. I would be curious to know, what's the retention from like the, the Jack cohort, like the, the wannabe Jack cohort? And what's the retention from the small to medium sized business? And is that different?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 16:31Greg Isenberg?

  That's one question.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  It's only something I've been able to collect data on in the last like, or sorry, I've started collecting data for that. So I could know in the last like two weeks. So really I like, um, you know, I ha- as Gabe kind of said earlier, like I have no data or very little data to work with here. Um, so, so that's a, it's a good question that I can't. If I survey them now?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  You could get it easily. How? And that's creating on next login, right? And I'm going to speak a little bit of dev-enabled speak right now. So Jack creates component inside the application that on next login until complete, you give them an onboarding data collection survey that just pops up and takes focus until they either complete it or they just can hit skip 100 times until they, you know, get into the app. Like they can hit skip every time or, you know, when they reach the end of the multi-stage questionnaire, it could be like five or six questions, you know, one card per question and then it slides to the next.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  And then, once you finish it, you log the completion and then it isn't forced shown to them every time they open the app. And I think that's a very easy way for you to immediately collect information from your users. Because the guys who are going to like not want to do that will just hit skip a bajillion times. And the other ones will just be willing. And depending on how you position it, they'll probably be more willing depending on how you ask in the message, like we are asking our users because we want to make sure that we're delivering the most value possible. Right? And like, that's a great way to get a user to participate and say, oh, okay, this person wants to make the experience better for me as a user. So I'm definitely going to participate.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  And then there's going to be people who are so scattered that they're like, what is this? Get it, get it out of my face. And they hit the skip or the close button and they're not worried about it until they come back like 48 hours later and they see it again. So it's just something that's easily skippable and like they can either click skip or close it. Or, and then the other option is, like I said, when they complete it, you log that as like, is, is survey complete equal true? And then if, if true, no longer show survey.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  And I think that's a really easy way you can collect that data from your existing user base without having to like inherently ask them for permission. What do you think, Greg?

• 19:01Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. I mean, I think that's a that's smart. It's really smart. The other thing you can do is, I don't know how much email marketing you're doing, but you can tag people based on what they respond and then you can upsell them stuff, right? So you can say, you can, you could be, you know, based on how they respond to the the survey, you can basically be like, okay, this person, you know, is super happy. They love the product, they're retaining. There might be a starter at $9 a month. You can, you can send them an email being like, you know, thanks for taking the survey. I'm going to give you 50% off yearly.

• 19:40Greg Isenberg?

  And, you know, with some FOMO with, you know, within the next 24 hours, you have to, you know, it only for the next 24 hours or 72 hours. And that's another way, you know, it's so, you know, one of the things I've noticed about solo, a lot of solo printers is they're not using email marketing to lock in people who are from monthly into yearly customers. And those customers are going to retain better.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Speed, a speed to cash collection is like, one of the most important things that you as a business operator that wants to, that either wants to scale or sustain, needs to understand is that the faster you get somebody's, the faster you get somebody's total cash collection, the more you can put that into play into further creating additional offers for them, or creating sustainability and value delivery inside your application. And that's like, that's a little bit of marketer for you is like, how much of the LTV, the lifetime value of your client, are you going to try and collect upfront? How much are you, how much cash are you going to try and take? Right? Because the AOV is like $9 a month.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  And from each person, okay, what if we could increase the AOV and measure the AOV on a yearly basis? And then you can build the funnel of people that come into your application as users based upon yearly acquisition instead of month to month acquisition. Then you can, then you can change the way you look at the data over a period of time. And that makes it way easier to see. And all of a sudden, the way you measure your churn goes down.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Because you're positioning yourself as because if you if you capture more of them at a yearly subscription on the front end of your of signup, you position yourself from having to look at month to month churn, it should drop to near, it should flatline at that point. If you make the value delivery big enough for yearly. I think that's, I think that's something worth looking at here because frankly, you've got both price points really well nailed.

• 21:49Greg Isenberg?

  Jack, what's going through your mind right now?

• 21:51Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm just thinking, like, when I get off this, I'm gonna start drafting up my email flow is better.

• 21:59Greg Isenberg?

  What are you using for email marketing right now?

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Right now, I have like, I have a disconnected kind of flow from Flowdesk. So like, someone comes and I have like a basic nurture that just sends to everybody. And then I also have like, some activation emails sent out through like my own email, like, like API. There's just like, if they don't post, to send them an email. If they don't connect accounts in the first three days, they send them an email, like, just basically that.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  So you've got action driven emails that are driving your first, like, week's worth of flows.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  So that's great. Do you have a standard onboarding flow? Like, every day they get an email for the first seven days that teach them how to how to use the application?

• 22:40Speaker 02

  No, I have like, four emails in my standard flow that are, I think, one of them has a demo, but the rest are just like, kind of tips and tricks.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Okay. I think sometimes people need the help in understanding how they're supposed to use an application so that they can see the value. And now this is where Greg is going to say, speed to value is also a way you can reduce monthly churn. How quickly are you getting the value to your user? And that's usually through product enablement. Would you say that, Greg?

• 23:13Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I would. So I think about onboarding as there's two ways to do onboarding upfront onboarding, which is like you sign up to a product, maybe you get some emails being like, here's how to use the product on day one, here's how to use the product on day three, here's how to use the product on day seven, or contextual onboarding, which is as you're using the product, it's kind of teaching you best practices. I am of the camp that contextual onboarding ultimately outperforms.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 23:46Greg Isenberg?

  You know, upfront onboarding. So one thing to think about if I was Jack and I was trying to increase retention is throughout the product, if you can like litter in and you're so good on video anyways, if you can litter in like, hey, I'm Jack, you're, you're on the like, scroll up for a sec, you're on the, you know, selecting account screen, like literally loom style videos around like, my number one tip would be this, my number one tip would be that, and just litter, it's like, it's honestly shocking how non-video websites are and software is, when you think about it, because the way people consume content and

• 24:26Greg Isenberg?

  software today is content, is videos. They want videos, they're on Instagram stories all day long, they're on TikTok all day long.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Do you see the screen down here? Like, you've got the little crisp icon here, is that what this is? Or is this, okay, you got your, you got your help guy, right? So ultimately, like, this should be a picture of you going like this, pointing, right? And because if you can get somebody to click on that, then you can teach them about what's on the screen. That's a, that's a great example of how that works.

• 24:58Greg Isenberg?

  Also, the more Jack, I mean, well, it's, it's, it's a double edged sword and I'll explain why, but if you get, if there's more Jack on this, on the software, people are less likely to churn, because then they're like, I don't want to, you know, I love Jack.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  He's so helpful.

• 25:15Greg Isenberg?

  He's so helpful. I can't, I'm not going to cancel on Jack. And I think there's this new wave of indie startups that people would rather support an indie startup and an indie founder over, you know, a $250 million venture backed founder.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 25:34Greg Isenberg?

  Or team, or conglomerate, or, you know, Salesforce product or whatever. So I think that.

• 25:42Greg Isenberg?

  You know, I think that if you, if there was more Jack on here, you would see retention go up. I also will say though, if you sold the company, there's more key man risk. If Jack is everywhere, right? Cause let's say I come to you, I'm, you know, we buy company. So if I saw, you know, just speaking honestly, if I, if I saw like Jack everywhere on this product, I'd be like, okay, well, I'm going to need Jack to like, update these videos. You know what I mean? So there's more risk, but there's some balance that you can do. And then maybe over time, you can kind of like put members, maybe you would hire someone and maybe have someone else's videos.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  It could even be AI and a mascot now. That's a big thing is like, is your mascot teaching them? Like you can do that with V O three or whatever else. And maybe it's a picture of the golden, maybe it's like the Golden Gate Bridge as like a claymation or something. Who knows, right? It, there's, there's ways that you can minimize that risk for sure.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  So what do you think? We jump into the, the Excalibur and start drilling down this list?

• 26:46Greg Isenberg?

  Let's do it.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  All right, here we go. Ultimately, right now, Jack, I think you're foxhole on X. You're stuck on, you're stuck, you're stuck on X. And that's about, it's, there's five ways that we can, that I immediately see to, to show you how you can fix this. And all of them surround, so this is like five problems, right? So the first one that I saw, when I look at you and your current stack is that right now, there's no community for PostBridge. There's nowhere for people to go and talk about how they're using it. Right? Because if we can, if we can give them a place to talk to one another,

• 27:31Speaker 01

  which could be on school, it could be on WAP, Circle, Heartbeat, Discord. I don't know, Greg's probably a little more on this camp and so am I.

• 27:42Greg Isenberg?

  I'm, I'm in the whatever works camp.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Right. And that's the best way to do it is like, Jack, whatever you like, and whatever you think most of your users are going to be interested in. It's probably going to be like Discord.

• 27:53Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  If I'm really honest, right? And that makes sense, right? Because we can create a space for users to connect. You can build the ecosystem around the product. You're going to get what you're going to get more feedback and you're going to get like people who are like totally willing to like show you where they found bugs so that you can fix them. And you're going to enable user to user value. And that's where that's what like startup empire with Greg is fantastic at is creating user value where they start to engage with one another and they value your product with your community because of the people around it.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Right? And so this is, this is more along the lines of the founder led SaaS model, the founder like community model, and it's a little bit more marketerish. But at the same time, you can, you can build this around anything because if you have something for sale, there's you sell it to more than one person. Right? So ultimately, if more than one person buys it, hey, we've got a community that we can build. So this is like problem one. Greg, do you want to add anything on this?

• 29:01Greg Isenberg?

  I do. The mistake 99% of people make when they add a community is they, they think about themselves and they're like, yeah, I'm going to have a community and people are going to talk to each other. And you know, that's why there's so many zombie communities out there. The important thing for you to consider, Jack, is what is the utility and outcome that people will get by joining this community? So I think that if there was a community that was people sharing formats that worked for them, and that's something you talk a lot about, um, you know, on X and Instagram, that that would be super value add for anyone. Like I would join that community.

• 29:46Greg Isenberg?

  If I could be in a community of people being like, have you seen this format or, you know, look at what, you know, this creator did, I think that would be super valuable. And what I would do is I would include that as a perk to being a, and maybe this is how you're thinking about it, Gabe, as a perk to being a PostBridge customer. Like, if you sign up to PostBridge, you get access to, say, the Discord and, and like, Jack, you have to be, you know, managing a community is no joke. And I know you're spread really thin because you're one Jack.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  It's important that, like, don't feel like you need to action all of this at once.

• 30:31Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Stages, please. Stages.

• 30:34Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. And like, by the way, the MVP of the community might be just like, you start a WhatsApp group with, you know what I mean, with like 20 of your best customers and then you like learn from there.

• 30:45Greg Isenberg?

  But yeah, I think that the idea around, and this is, you know, applicable to a lot of businesses, is like, figure out what the utility is. What is the outcome? Add it as a perk to your plan. And if there's value, a lot of your churn will go down because people won't want to leave the community.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  I know that I'll pay for Greg's community for as long as I can because of the amount of value that it's brought me and exposed to me to a whole different world of people. I have clients that I've, I've met in Greg's community that work for me in my B2B podcasting content agency. Like those, I have met them inside of Greg's group just through casual conversation and giving value. And like, that's the, again, it's, it's, we make it less about ourselves and more about what the community and the people and the user gets.

• 31:37Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. And so you're gonna, you're gonna reduce churn and you're gonna have better relationships with your customers and you're gonna get feedback. And like, you know, one of the things I love about like my, you know, my little community startup empire is like, These are company like I've invested in founders there. I've gotten to know them like I've had them over for for dinner. I've, um, you know, I've gone to see them. I've had coffee with them. I've, I've hired them, um, many times. So you get, you, you basically unlock a, just a closer relationship with your customer base,

• 32:16Greg Isenberg?

  which in and in itself, it's crazy that you end up reducing churn and, and, and you're going to reduce churn. You're going to increase, um, people, uh, increase sales because people are going to be like, oh, I want to join this community. So there's a lot of value to that. What's the next?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  The next one here is like, kind of what we talked about is, is that Jack really doesn't show up in, in what PostBridge stands for beyond solving the problem. And that's like, we want to, the fixes, we want to embed the values that PostBridge stands for. And I think Jack will probably do a little bit of message tweaking on that and also impart a little bit of himself into that, uh, into that strategy. And, and the immediate is like, the missing, the mission for PostBridge is outcomes. How you like, what the person can expect from using PostBridge, like what the outcome is.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  And the immediate is like, you saved, you save X amount of time per week, uh, posting to all of your platforms instead of wasting this amount of time. Right? And that's just the easy like top down view. Look at it and we can build that into the UI. Right? Into, because that's one of the other pieces that I mentioned or that I mentioned in the X post is like, this is the inside of the UI for PostBridge and it is clean. Jack, you have clearly coded the absolute balls out of this. And like, you clearly care because it's, it's tight. Like you've, you know what it's like when you jump into a vibe coded app and like,

• 33:54Speaker 01

  things load asynchronously and like the interface jumps around and it doesn't, it doesn't feel tightly wound. PostBridge is the exact opposite of that. It's very tightly wound, which tells me that you're somebody that cares about quality. Right? So when, and user experience. So if we can take what our mission is, right, is if somebody posts.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Posts to three or four platforms, right? We can take that mission and tie it into gamification inside of our app, which is how much time, just this is again, just a quick look. Your gamification could be how much time people have saved, right? That could be the point stack and how the points add up. It's like you've saved an hour this month and you know, you've saved 60 minutes and 60 minutes equals 60 points. And like you can create, you can create gamification because that, that, that creates a deeper connection to the application because that's just the human brain. The human brain, brain likes to achieve and the human itself likes to, to, to get rewards.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Sometimes they don't even need to, that's why we have skins in games and like Counter-Strike and you know, whatever other insane shooter game you like to play or people like to play. Like you do something, you get an achievement and then you begin to collect them. And like, there's all kinds of really interesting ways that you can do that. Through gamification and redemption of points converted into certain things and connected to the community and then all of a sudden your guys in the community are displaying how much time they've saved, right? Via like Discord tags and like status features via Discord bot or a leaderboard and an interactive leaderboard, right? So we want to, we want to figure out what, what it is PostBridge stands for

• 35:47Speaker 01

  and connect to that through the experience. And I think that's going to be part of what you have, like what Greg said, like through the onboarding and then just through continued use of the application. Greg, I'd like to hear your, if you got, if you got something you want to add to that.

• 36:04Greg Isenberg?

  I see you have Instacart open, like Instacart does a really good job at saying like, yeah, you've saved some amount of hours.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  That's exactly why I have this open. That's exactly why I have this open and I have like 300 something hours and I, it goes up every time I use it.

• 36:20Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 36:22Greg Isenberg?

  So I think that's a, that's a really good point. I also, I have like a little tip, I would say around how do you create, how do you, how do you do messaging? Like, let's say you're a solopreneur and you want to do messaging, rework your messaging so that it hits your ICP better is, do customer calls, record customer calls. Jack, I don't know if you're recording them, but record them, download the transcripts, all the transcripts, upload all the transcripts. Well, ask the question around like, what do you, what do you, what do you love about PostBridge?

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:00Greg Isenberg?

  As one of the questions, an open-ended question like that. And then you upload it to ChatGPT. And then you say, hey, I'm redoing my copy for my website. I want it, I want you to read these transcripts and I want you to write copy that's, you know, redoes our tagline based on them, et cetera. And you'd be surprised with how good it could be because, for example, I think you said, Jack, one of the reasons why people like PostBridge is how lightweight it is.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:31Greg Isenberg?

  Is that right?

• 37:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:33Greg Isenberg?

  Lightweight. So if you go to the PostBridge website, Gabe, maybe it's not schedule your content everywhere in seconds. Maybe it's the most light, the most lightweight scheduling app.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:45Greg Isenberg?

  Or something like that. And

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I got you.

• 37:48Greg Isenberg?

  The transcripts are the treasure chest. It's where the gold is. And you know, you just have to kind of like massage it through ChatGPT. Thoughts, Jack?

• 38:03Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, I think definitely, and I've noticed like there's similar phrasing for the customers that are like, you know, the most active, the most spending, they kind of look at PostBridge through a similar lens, not always the exact same wording, but like, there's definitely specific wording there that, you know, like someone said,

• 38:23Speaker 02

  it's a no-brainer, like to think two people said that, like the price. So like, stuff like that just comes up. And I haven't been recording the calls so far. I'm going to start because I realized that that'd be helpful. But like even top of mind, there is patterns there that even I can see. So if I put it into ChatGPT, I'm sure I'll get even better results.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  And the key is not to give chat GPT the context of what's appearing as a normal pattern, because even if you tell it to ignore it, it will still pick up on it. So if if you really want to discover those patterns that aren't there, leave the context out about what you see and see what chat GPT finds. And like everybody always says, give more context, give more context. Well, that's great. But if you notice the pattern, chat GPT is going to focus on the pattern too. So like, do some split testing there, maybe, because it might find something that it and I think that's what Greg is saying is like, the gold is in the things that you don't see. And you can use something like granola, or even I think Notion

• 39:22Speaker 01

  has a call recorder that's free. I think that's included in their stack. Hopefully, you have Notion, because like, those guys are killing it over there. The the next piece of the funnel or of the breakdown here, I see is, you know, Jack, you're not on YouTube, man. YouTube's like, the biggest search engine behind Google on the planet. And YouTube now has the ability to feed into AI summary, transcripts can be read by AI summary, videos are linked everywhere. And it's it becomes not only does it become a audience builder for you, Jack, but it becomes a direct inbound source. Right? And this is, this is a great

• 40:06Speaker 01

  example, like, here's Callaway. This is like the other social media guy you see out there. Right? So Callaway's got this video that he's posted the other day. And the first thing in his description is he's got his founder founder led SaaS. He's got this lead magnet, which is, you just did that. You've got that course that you put together the other day, even though it's completely free on your website with no opt in, that doesn't mean that you can't ask people to opt in other places. Right? And like, he's got his community linked here. And oh, look, here's one from Greg's videos. Like, all of the things that he's doing are linked in there. And what's the first one is Greg's idea browser, which is like, I personally, I look for that email every day from idea browser in my email. Because

• 40:51Speaker 01

  I haven't signed up for it because God knows all I need is more ideas as an ADD person. So I look for that email from Greg just because it's an interesting take. Right? So these, there are more than, more than one ways, more than one way that you can create inbound sources, especially on the biggest platforms with some of the largest discoverability. YouTube's gotta be the biggest, like insert, insert startup ideas podcast here. Right? Like Greg's got one of the biggest startup podcasts out there. And this is the other part is like YouTube becomes, can become a podcast. And like, I'm a member of Greg's community through the podcast.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  And like I said before, I have clients that I've found and met there. So again, this is like, it all comes, it all comes down to just having those inbound points. And the value that you get to enable, like you see how me being a part of Greg's community is valuable because I discovered him.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  And now I have value inside his community. So I just continue to be there.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Because I discovered Greg through video.

• 42:01Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I will say like, it's crazy, Jack. Like you, you know, the power of short form because you create short form, but long form video. Like people really do develop a huge connection to you via that. And if you, you know, if you can figure it out and you get the right titles and you get the right packaging. And anytime someone Googles or uses Gemini or whatever for, um, you know, social media scheduling and your video comes up, it's just like literally like you haven't, it's like a free ad on autopilot, basically for whatever it is you're doing. So it's super valuable.

• 42:45Greg Isenberg?

  Does this mean, I think like the, I always look at like you'll, I always look at everything as like, what's the MVP to this? Like maybe it's not, you know, a, a new video every week, but maybe it's like once a month or once every two months even, like just something. And, uh, over time that'll compound. I will say that, you know, I started this YouTube channel in 2021. It took until about 500 plus videos for it to actually take off. Before that, most of my videos would do between zero and 5,000 views or so.

• 43:24Greg Isenberg?

  Max, like 5,000 would be like, we're crushing it. So I would just say like, don't be, and you know, you know this, but don't be, you know, discouraged.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. The way I've been thinking about YouTube is like, like I tried, or I have, I have made like a few thousand YouTube videos. I had like four YouTube channels in the past, but they're all like, the content that I always lean to is like, you know, simple content, put the camera on, one shot, put my screen recording. I'm not sure if like, you know, with the right packaging, maybe I could work for PostBridge 2. Or like, I'm overthinking it and I'm like, do I need these super high quality pieces of content?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  And like, that's where I get stuck. It's like, uh, you know, is what I'm going to be doing, the videos I'm going to be making enough? Like.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  The long form content will, I mean, typically performs, you know, pretty well if it's person to person based. And that's why, you know, just talking to the camera works really well. And I don't think you're also, I don't think you're limited to one style of content. I think that as, as long as you measure, you can test what works and kill what doesn't.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  And that's where like, it doesn't, just because you have nice equipment, doesn't mean it needs to be a crazy level of production value, right? You can still do simple stuff, but people also want to, people also directly equate what you do and how you present yourself and how it's presented with your, with you, with you as a person. So like, you take a little bit of care in what you do, but nobody says that you need to go all out and like, like, put foam stuff up behind you like I have in my home office. Nobody says you have to do all that. You just have to, you give it a little bit of time and energy.

• 45:15Greg Isenberg?

  I just did an episode yesterday on the pod and it had like the craziest setup, you know, in a beautiful place. Great guest.

• 45:25Greg Isenberg?

  And the video was a 10 on 10 on YouTube studio, which is the worst.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:31Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, worst. You know, it's it's underperforming by like three or four X. Then I do like a, you know, last week I did an episode on Nano Banana.

• 45:45Greg Isenberg?

  It was like, you know, late at night, lighting was not good at all, super tired, but you know, the title, the packaging, and I guess the value was there. That does 10 times the amount of of views.

• 46:01Greg Isenberg?

  And and and 10 times the amount of likes and 10 times the amount of comments. My point is the title and the packaging and the actual value matters. The the actual, the actual production quality doesn't really matter that much.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Not not the way people think it does.

• 46:19Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Don't get me wrong. It's great to enjoy those things if you do enjoy a high level of production and like that's that's something for you that you truly enjoy and like to see. Because you just do things that you like to do and that you enjoy, but doesn't necessarily mean needs. It doesn't need to be the primary focus.

• 46:37Greg Isenberg?

  Gotcha.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  And I want to touch on this next one because this is where I think it's like these last two are some of the most interesting pieces out of all of this. Because it starts to think of like how we create our own world, how we build our world and how we build the world around us. And that's that, Jack, I never see you talk about AI in terms of what you're doing for code. Are you using, are you using Claude, Claude code or using Cursor? Are we doing anything like that? Which which have we picked?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  All right. I used to use Cursor, like to originally build Postbridge, but now, yeah, I use Claude every day.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  What do you call it, Greg? Don't you call it Claude?

• 47:18Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, that's that's what French people call it. Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Claude. Okay.

• 47:22Greg Isenberg?

  French word. So, yeah.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  So, and I think that the more, obviously, you can, the more you put time and energy into developing the platform, you know, you hire somebody to help with that, of course. But if, you know, the longer you can do it yourself, the better. And I was just thinking, I was like, you know, when people, when when we create these businesses, we want to try and set ourselves apart. And we try and do that by creating our own thing. And the part of what I think that PostBridge is missing is its own analytic, its own metric. Greg, do you know where Outlier started? Was that, it was something related to YouTube and I think it was a tool that picked that up.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  And then that actually became a measured thing.

• 48:11Greg Isenberg?

  I didn't know that.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  So like Outlier was not an original metric that people measured and how much of a multiplier an Outlier video had, which is like something that's just on the edge of what your primary focus might be, that's and related to you that's doing very well. So I think that PostBridge could take some time and like, how can we create our own metric that puts us in a world of one?

• 48:37Speaker 01

  What can we look at in terms of analytics for how people are posting and how their, what their results say in terms of analytics pass back and pass through? I bet that if you looked at your available data points, you could engineer a new metric for yourself. And because the most successful users of PostBridge will have that data for you that you can, you can figure out a way to create. I think that's a really interesting way to differentiate because nobody else has the PostBridge metric because you're the person that knows how to make it and calculate it, not everybody else.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  And that kind of comes into the next piece, which is like, you just pushed it the other day is your API and connectivity. And that's, the API point was great. That's fantastic. I still think that we need to get MCP and like, allow people to agentically connect PostBridge to their stack. And that doesn't need to be an immediate focus, but like MCP is a pretty, it's kind of, it's become like the gold standard of like, you know, multiple, like mass user adoption is like, you can use MCP to integrate X tool into your stack in whatever way you deem appropriate. And then use cases and edge cases become, get created.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  And I think that's something to consider in how you do things and like, like Don Vito Codes has his AI backends thing that he's done. That'd be a really cool way to integrate AI, where you could build a content writer into PostBridge. And like, again, these don't need to be really heavy, but I do think that there are things, these are some things that PostBridge should have to consider it a full-featured, full-featured tool that can still, that can still function lightweight. And that kind of comes down into founder integrations, right? Is like, PostBridge can then start to partner with, like, Theo has his thing, his T3 Chat,

• 50:38Speaker 01

  right? People can take content from the T3 Chat and import it into PostBridge via a connection, right? Or Greg has his Empire AI. And I know he's got like, he's got a couple other things up his, up his sleeve. And like, Idea Browser, you can export, export to PostBridge and use PostBridge as like, mini, mini content storage and like, idea storage that can like, be delineated down into posts, right? And like, all of that's capable through like, AI and agentic frameworks. And, and between, between like, various JSON functions and calls, I'm sure

• 51:20Speaker 01

  that you can, you or whoever, whoever you work with for development can think, figure that out. But this is the most important one.

• 51:26Greg Isenberg?

  Wait, so any quick thoughts before we go to the last one? Any quick thoughts, Jack, on this?

• 51:32Speaker 02

  I mean, I think there's definitely, yeah, definitely a need to kind of enable those type of customers more. And that's what I've started doing. But yeah, I'm definitely far off from making it to the end of the list where it's integrated with like, other founders. And I can get to the point where it's polished enough to be that useful, you know, have an MCP. So I feel like I'm like, maybe, you know, 20% there max. And it's something that I definitely

• 51:58Speaker 01

  These are just ideas. Don't forget. This is just, this is just, this is just an idea. You take with it and deliver what you will. Greg, what do you think about the founder integration systems? I thought that, I thought that was really unique. I'd like to hear what you, you think about that.

• 52:11Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I think it's, I think it's really, it is really unique. It's really interesting.

• 52:17Greg Isenberg?

  You know, being a founder in general is a game of

• 52:21Greg Isenberg?

  Of priorities, if I had to pick one thing to focus on, as silly as it sounds, like, I feel like the create your own metric is so valuable. So, I mean, I invested in this company like 12 years ago or something, VidIQ. It was a Chrome.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  You're invested in VidIQ? I didn't know that. Well, shoot, take my money.

• 52:45Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, that's just a disclosure. It's a disclosure. I mean, it was like, you know, the tiniest check of all time. But the point is, like, what they did that was really smart is you download this Chrome extension and then you're on YouTube and you can see like, this video is a 2.1x outlier. You know, the Nano Banana video I did is a 5.3x versus the one I did in the studio, a 0.4x or whatever. So that VidIQ score and that outlier for creators, they're always, like, I wouldn't use anything else because I'm so, I just, I'm used to those scores, I guess, now. And it means so much to me. So that, you know,

• 53:28Greg Isenberg?

  it's such a good provocation, which is like, how do you, how do you create your own version of that? And how do you, yeah, how do you create a market of one? And I think that it's relatively easy to do from like, an effort estimate perspective, and the value is huge.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  What do you think about that? Is that, do you, are your gears turning for that? Create your own metric?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, now I'm just, I'm thinking of all the like, the different things that I could take from even previous, like, companies, they've created their own metrics. And how could I kind of spin off of them? I feel like that's the easiest way to start. But also, I know that a big part of that is, you know, Postbridge right now is such a lightweight thing. It doesn't have analytics. Like, that's something that's like, top of my list and definitely would help with that metric.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  I think that's, that's a solid observation. And I think the last piece here that I've got is, you know, right now, you kind of got, you're pigeonholed on exit in a small market.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  And I think that the next two expansions to find more people that would value that product, right? Because when a normal business Googles social media tool, like they end up in Hootsuite or Buffer or some other, you know, B2B enterprise thing that's just like insane, over the top. And I think that more normal businesses would largely benefit from using a multi-tool like yours. And I think that most of those people are probably present on LinkedIn.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Just regular business owners, not marketers or funnel guys, because like, don't get me wrong, they're there too, but just regular HVAC or plumbing businesses, local service businesses. There's a need for all of them to get on socials and they also need, and like now SEO is coming to socials. Didn't I just see the other day that I think Google's added a new short form tab? Like on their search results page that SEO content is present in now. So like now you matter more than ever to them in being a part of their stack. And then the other point is, is just audience partnership.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  And this kind of ties into like founder integrations, but ultimately you can, you can partner with anybody that has an audience and create some type of value for them, right? And this is like a little bit further off in the distance is like,

• 56:06Speaker 01

  you can allow those guys to come on board with their own framework. And they can only unlock that their users can only unlock that framework through, you know, whatever user verification system they're using. It could be a member list, it could be a school list, it could be a super base, it could be clerk, whatever tool they want to use. And like, you know, obviously you get to this, this is just another idea of how you can still branch out and connect with like-minded other people.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  That will value your tool because you this would allow you to create, you couldn't give it to free for community leaders and it's an easy value lift for them to boost to boost their communities or whatever it is they're doing and it creates a new inbound source for you. And if you systemize that, that's another way to increase value for other people. And I think Greg will probably agree with this is like, if you can help somebody stack value into whatever their offer is, ultimately they're more willing to do business with you because you enable them to enable you.

• 57:14Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, 100%. There's only one thing I disagree with here,

• 57:21Greg Isenberg?

  which is scroll back to expand market. My take here is, I mean, how many daily active users are on X? You know, like, I don't know, 100 some odd million, hundreds of millions. I think that, you know, Jack, you said you're at like 1500 customers, something like that?

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:50Greg Isenberg?

  And the, you know, average customer pays you, I don't know, around $15 a month. Your smallest package is nine or something, something like that, 15. So I think that you can 10x on X, no problem. If you find the right positioning and the right content formats. So if you can 10x and you're doing 20K now, so you can get to, you know, 200K, 200, that's, that's $2.4 million ARR, you know, could you sell that for, for, you know, 4X? Like probably, pretty, pretty easily. So then all of a sudden you've created $10 million asset and you own 100% of it.

• 58:34Greg Isenberg?

  It's like, it's pretty insane. Um, so I think that if I'm you, like, could you expand the market and like go to LinkedIn and do stuff like that? Like, yeah, you could, but I just believe that on X alone, you can get, you can get to 10x.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  So we're thinking double down on X and just widen the ICP on X?

• 58:59Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I think it's, it's there, especially and I saw Nikita posted, Nikita Beer had a product of X posted yesterday that they're doubling down on small, uh, smaller niche accounts.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:13Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. So I think that.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  I think, I like that.

• 59:17Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, it's good. It's good. Right? So it's, it's an opportunity to, to tap into other niches and potentially collaborate with, you know, go and collaborate with like a boring business person or, you know, do a live with a, you know, uh, an HVAC person or a real estate person or so. Um, I think that, you know, because of how big social platforms are getting now, like you can just really focus on one. And then, uh, I, I think that, you, you know, focusing on one is important. That's my take.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  Which is kind of ironic considering that Postbridge posts like everywhere.

• 59:57Greg Isenberg?

  It is ironic, but I think like, once you've, once you've proven to yourself like, okay, my churn is, is, is, you know, maybe sub 7% or whatever it is, you know, my, I've got churn under control. I've got activation under control that now it's like, okay, I can go and move to other.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Greg Isenberg?

  Social platforms. It's a luxury to actually move to other social platforms.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Well, you think about it, it, the luxury part makes a lot of sense because that's, you have to learn how to communicate with that audience and like.

• 1:00:29Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  You have to learn that style because it's different on every, on every platform. And that, and, and that kind of gives, brings us down here, Jack, is to like, ultimately you need the data, right? And you need, you need more, you need more information from more people. And Greg kind of hinted at this earlier is like, the first one is like newsletter. You need to grow that massively. The newsletter audience as an inbound funnel tool is huge. And that can come from anywhere. You can run traffic to a newsletter. You can run lead magnets. You can run YouTube, all of your socials, all of your community. And ultimately that turns into data. Because the more you interact with people, the more data you can collect.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Data is the gold. There's especially for somebody who has, who wants to learn about one type of person. So deeply that nobody else can understand that level of, of depth in them. You could, I mean, I think you're that, you're going to be that guy. You're going to be the, you're going to be the guy that understands solo founders and, and, and founder led SaaS guys. More than anybody else, because I believe that you're going to grow to be one of the best people that they connect with.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  And growing the newsletter is going to be huge for that. Because the, essentially the goal is like, is there people there? Insert newsletter link. Cool. Like that's like, if, if you're somewhere where there's people and they're consuming your content, newsletter link is immediately there. The reason, uh, the reason I say that data is going to be the most important is because data tells the future. And if you know the data and how it reacts inside of your stack. You can determine whether data is actually what, what you're doing is problem solving or causing mission drift. And mission drift is what I kind of see where what you're doing right now could result in mission drift.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Like all of the, the picking any one of these things in the stack, right? That we're talking about, or it can result in problem solving. Mission drift is when you pull away from whatever your core focus is. And you pull away from what that mission is. Because bad data. In terms of like, if you, if you, if you bring on bad, if you bring on mission drift and you start getting mission drift, you end up with bad data quality, low levels of execution, bad strategy, you're not consistent. And all of those things directly influence the level of profit that you get, that you extract from your stack and significantly increases the amount of BS that you have to deal with.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  And like, that's kind of the opposite of what a founder led business should be, right? Is like, we don't want to deal with BS. We want to minimize that. Cause the more BS you deal with, don't get me wrong, there's, there's positives in BS and learning experiences, but I don't think anybody wants to optimize to deal with more. Right? I know Greg optimizes his whole community in life to deal with less.

• 1:03:45Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I think that's a big reason why a lot of us choose this path is, is, you know, we want to, we want to dream life, you know? So we don't want a life that runs us, we want to, we want to run it.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  I like that. And this is just what it looks like when you get it right. Because if the actions you're taking and the data that you're measuring, shows you that you are driving, you're driving problem solving. This is what the profit and BS levels look like. Because if you're doing actions that are problem solving, you're going to have more profit and less BS. Those are the ultimate outcomes, right? For you as a solo founder, would you agree?

• 1:04:31Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Minimize, maximize profit, minimize BS.

• 1:04:35Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  So just, and that's just again, a top level take of an examination of what it is you're doing in this journey to solve churn. And the more data you collect, and what we're going to be doing with that data that we get. Which one is it going to give us? Is it going to give us mission drift or is it going to give us problem solving?

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  So you know, the development side of things, I think we touched on that already. You're using Claude code, right? You're that, you know, uses of AI and code counts in code is like, one of the best ways that you can increase your speed to execution. Because believe it or not, speed to execution is often one of the most overlooked pieces of getting out of a hole that you're in. And I think Greg could probably agree with this. How many times have you talked to a founder that just can't seem to show up and execute or make a decision? And they end up just pigeonholed and staying where they are?

• 1:05:37Greg Isenberg?

  All the time, man, literally all the time. I think that, yeah, I think that's a good point.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  So the last piece is, Jack, do you have a council of people that you count on? Do you, that you talk to?

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  I mean, like mostly I talk to like people on Twitter and DMs like just very like nice people who have, you know, obviously been there before. There's like a few people have been on Greg's pod, even Cody.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Cody's a monster, that dude is.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's very helpful. He's very generous and like a few other people in the kind of area of startups that just DM and they're very generous as well. But I mean, I don't have anyone on my team or anything, right? Like I don't, I have developers that have hired for the past few months, tell me with the API and like, but mostly like all the main decisions and what I work on like day to day, that's all me.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Okay. I think it's worth, I think it's worth building in some AI council tools for yourself. Load some very specific agents with some training data that you can like run some ideas by and continue and could just stay consistent with that. Because ultimately, the more, the more information and like ultimately as this grows, you're going to have the ability to grow ideas. You're going to have a lot of data. You're going to be able to do some split testing, right? And all of that grows into one thing. And that is that we stop running on X virality, right? Because that's what it's been up until right now, right?

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  And I think it's, it's going to be world building based on X, right? And the like, that's kind of what Greg had to say is like doubling down and tripling down on X and world building on X is how we can fix the churn. Is this is the world building?

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  What does world building mean?

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Right. So, and Greg, was it you that said world building? Or was it somebody else?

• 1:07:38Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, I've, I've spoken a lot about, I've written a lot about world building.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  I'd love to hear you'd help, you help delineate that down for, for Jack.

• 1:07:48Greg Isenberg?

  How I define world building might not be like how you're thinking about world building, but I believe that, um, you know, I think I wrote a post world building is the new web design. And to me, it's like, if you're building a business, you're trying not to just build like a, a utility that does a thing, but you're trying to build this whole world around it. Like who's your ICP? How do they come in? How do they interact with it? What are the different touchpoints? Um, how did, how do, you know, how do they feel from using it? And the same way that like you, you, you know, you, you walk into a really well-designed retail world, you know, um, or you walk into like Disney World.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Apple's a great example, Apple or Disney World.

• 1:08:33Greg Isenberg?

  Like, yeah, Apple, Apple, you walk into an Apple store. Um, I remember the first time I walked into an Apple store. I think everyone remembers the first time they walked into an Apple store and it felt like, wow, this is not like, you know, Best Buy. This is like its own experience. And it's not just from the moment you walk into it, but it's from all of Apple's ads and their product and stuff like that. So I think the world, what is, what is Jack and Postbridge's world? And what does that mean? And, and, and, and, and how do you design the product, design the ads, design the social posts so that

• 1:09:14Greg Isenberg?

  people feel like this is a world I want to be in and I never want to leave because that's going to help ultimately fix the churn.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Greg dropping the dropping the sauce.

• 1:09:29Greg Isenberg?

  Well, if we're if someone, you know, the 1% of people who landed into the end that this hour plus this is will be the longest podcast I have ever done. This is the boring stuff that actually helps people like change their business.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  This is this is going to be the 100x outlier for Greg. Watch the one that's like expected to be the least possible one. It's just going to be like.

• 1:09:53Greg Isenberg?

  I don't think so because I think that people don't like to eat their vegetables.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:10:00Greg Isenberg?

  But Jack, I don't know. How's this session been for you?

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  I have like a lot to chew on. I feel like I feel like when you post the pot, I'll have to even look back on it just because there's so much like good ideas that I could start on today. It's almost overwhelming where to start. I have my existing set of priorities and they, you know, obviously need to merge it with that. So there's a there's lots of things that I mostly need to process down.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  What's the one thing, the one thing you took away from this that you weren't expecting?

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  I mean, I feel like before I came on, I like kind of knew what I was supposed to do. But now I feel like that was wrong.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Shattered.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  I'm more or less pumped like to keep figuring stuff out one by one. I am overwhelmed a bit, but in a good way. Like, I feel like there's so much to do and like, it's fun. Like, it's it's things that I get to solve and things that I get to do.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  I love that. I wish more founders approached it like that. And a lot of them don't. And I think that's what makes you unique, Jack, is that you look forward to the challenge and you show up for it. And most founders don't because I think of what Greg said, they don't like to eat their vegetables.

• 1:11:11Greg Isenberg?

  Jack, thank you for being being the subject of being roasted by Gabe. We appreciate that. And I look forward to seeing churn go down. Gabe, thank you for for being generous with your sauce and taking the time to. To help Jack. Absolutely. I just hope that people learned one, two, three things, got their creative juices flowing. I'll include links to PostBridge, Jack Social,

• 1:11:42Greg Isenberg?

  Gabe Social in the show notes where you can follow them for more of this. And I hope to, you know, I should end this by saying, please, please let me know if we should do this again with someone else.

• 1:12:00Greg Isenberg?

  Jack's got to get to work. And we'll definitely have him back on the pod, but it would be cool to see who else, who else should we do this for? Who else should we

• 1:12:11Greg Isenberg?

  examine under a microscope and try to help them? So, thank you all and I'll catch you later.