Financial Freedom in 6 Years by Buying Rentals with Just $6,000 Down

This investor turned $6,000 into financial freedom in just six years. He did it in a major market and became a millionaire by age 28 simply by repeating this beginner-friendly rental property strategy over and over again. And, even though he started earlier, you can STILL buy properties like his, at affordable prices, that cash flow, in the same market today. Where is he investing, and how did he scale up so fast? We’re breaking it all down in today’s episode. Jeremy Taggart saved every dollar from his college internship, knowing he wanted to invest in real estate after graduation. He bought his first house, a small multifamily, for just $6,000 down, lived in it, did some DIY renovations, and increased the value. Thanks to the rent savings, he bought another property the following year—this time, making $50,000 (tax-free!) by fixing it up. This was just the start of the “rinse and repeat” strategy that would turn Jeremy into a millionaire before he was thirty. But it wasn’t easy. Jeremy was fired from his job, had to start working for himself, and did what many real estate investors won’t. The result? Complete financial independence less than a decade after graduating college. His strategy still works in 2025, but will you use it? In This Episode We Cover: The easiest way to buy your first property with low money down (only $6,000!) Making $50,000 tax-free using the “BRRRR strategy” (buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat) The affordable, cash-flowing, stable real estate market Jeremy invests in (you can, too!) Is becoming a real estate agent worth it as a real estate investor? Why Jeremy switched from “cash flow” to “equity” investing for long-term wealth And So Much More! Links from the Show Join BiggerPockets for FREE Let Us Know What You Thought of the Show! Ask Your Question on the BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets YouTube Apply to Be a BiggerPockets Real Estate Guest Rich Dad Poor Dad Try REsimpli, The Only All-In-One Real Estate Investor CRM Software That Helps You Manage Data, Marketing, Sales, and Operations Grab the Personal Finance Classic, “Rich Dad Poor Dad” Sign Up for the BiggerPockets Real Estate Newsletter Find an Investor-Friendly Agent in Your Area The BRRRR Method (Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat) Connect with Jeremy Connect with Dave Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1117 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dave Meyer?

  This investor bought his first property with only $6,000 in cash. Then he did that six more times and now he owns more than 50 rental units. And there's no reason to think that you can't take your first steps today and get on a similar journey to financial freedom.

• 0:23Dave Meyer?

  Hey, everyone. Dave Meyer here. I've been buying rental properties myself for 15 years now. I've written two books about real estate investing and I am the head of real estate investing at BiggerPockets. And joining me today on the show is investor Jeremy Taggart. Jeremy lives and invests in Pittsburgh where he's built a seriously impressive portfolio of rental properties and he has a thriving agent business. Jeremy is going to tell us how he has basically repeated the same low money down strategy for almost his entire twenties, how getting fired from his day job was actually a pivotal and beneficial moment in his life and why Pittsburgh is a market anyone looking to

• 1:05Dave Meyer?

  invest long distance should consider exploring, especially in today's market. Let's bring on Jeremy. Jeremy, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me.

• 1:15Dave Meyer?

  Absolutely. Let's just start by hearing a little bit about your background. How did you come to be involved in real estate?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Real estate kind of came into the picture for me a little over a decade now. I was sophomore in college. Like many others, read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, that kind of light bulb went off at that moment in time. So really the next two years was just self-education on real estate investing, which was good because the fact that I couldn't jump in right away, it basically allowed me to know as much as I could possibly learn without actually doing it. So by the time I got to Graduating, basically, I felt very confident that I knew the general concepts of real estate investing.

• 2:02Dave Meyer?

  At that point, did you have specific goals that you knew you were looking for? Were you just trying to get into the game? Or what were you thinking about back then? Because you were mostly just educating yourself and you weren't actually doing the real estate just yet.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the FIRE movement was pretty big back then as well. I kind of caught the tail end of it. So I loved that concept. I think that was probably my goal. Like, I want to retire early. I want to live off my rentals, not have to work a W-2 job, have my own schedule. So that, I think, was kind of what inspired it.

• 2:38Dave Meyer?

  And what year was this?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I graduated college in May of 2016. So it was between 2014 and 2016. Kind of the tail end of when the FIRE movement was like real big.

• 2:47Dave Meyer?

  Sure, yeah. And if you are unfamiliar with the FIRE movement, FIRE is an acronym that stands for Financial Independence Retire Early. Basically, just this concept of trying to generate passive income in some way where you don't have to work that full-time W-2 job. Now, Jeremy, the interesting thing about FIRE, I think, at least for me, is that there's so many different versions of this. Like, for some people, they want to spend very little money and then they're okay just making a few grand a year. There's something people call FAT FIRE, where you want to get to financial independence, but you still want to live, you know, high quality of life and be able to spend money pretty loosely.

• 3:31Dave Meyer?

  Did you have a goal within FIRE that you were shooting for?

• 3:35Speaker 01

  My goals kind of formed over time, and they've changed since then as well. So I think initially, it was more leaning towards the traditional FIRE, like, maybe live a leaner lifestyle, but it was worth it for me for the flexibility. And that's changed since then. Now, I'm definitely 100% FAT FIRE. Like, it's definitely changed. FAT FIRE to a degree. But yeah, that was kind of, I think, the initial goal. And how things have transpired since then has kind of made me shift my mindset a bit as far as the actual long-term goal.

• 4:08Dave Meyer?

  You're learning about this. You want to go into FIRE. What happened when you graduated college? What were you? What was your first move?

• 4:15Speaker 01

  It was kind of a mindset shift from middle class to entrepreneur, business ownership from that point. But like the time I graduated, I'm like, there's no way I'm working at the W2 job. So that was kind of more viewed as a placeholder at that point. And first step was house hack. I got my first house hack in July of that year, graduated in May. So jumped into that right away. Pittsburgh's cheap, so I only needed, I think, like six grand for to close on the thing. Yeah, it was a triplex for 125,000, which

• 4:47Dave Meyer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Dave Meyer?

  What kind of condition was it at?

• 4:50Speaker 01

  It was good. It was a solid building. It just needed some cosmetic updates. Yeah.

• 4:54Dave Meyer?

  Wow. I'm sure people listening are salivating at that idea of 40, 40 grand a unit right now. So it's pretty good.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was like a three bedroom unit and two two bedroom units. So this was a big building.

• 5:06Dave Meyer?

  I assume you financed it. How much did you put down and where'd you get that six grand from?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Yep. FHA. That was kind of the only option at the time for low down payment, two to four units. Knew about the seller's assist. I got the 6% seller's assist. So I only needed essentially the down payment. I had saved up money from that internship. And then, like I said, I was working full time, 40 hours, the last semester of college. So that's how I was able to get the six grand to put into it. I'd scraped together six grand, but I didn't have a ton of cash available after closing. So it was still like, it was most of my money, basically. So I moved into the thing after. We actually had to get one of the tenants out of there. So that was my first experience with landlord-ing was she wouldn't leave. So I had to like hand deliver a letter to her saying like, the bank's making me

• 5:54Speaker 01

  move into this, like basically try to make it sound like she was not doing something illegal, but like, per the terms of the loan, she needed to move out kind of thing because her lease was up. So it actually, the first time we got in there, we were waiting for her to get picked up. She got picked up by a taxi and left a bunch of junk in the, in the unit. So that was my welcome to landlord-ing moment as far as the first house hack.

• 6:16Dave Meyer?

  Right. And so what were you getting it cleaned out because you wanted to make improvements? Or what was the plan for the, you know, I assume you're living in one unit. What was the plan for the other two?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  It was nice because I was living for free right off the bat, even at below market rents from the other two units. It covered my mortgage and I think it was above my mortgage by like 200 bucks. So good situation. That was the goal from the start. I didn't do a lot of work to my unit just because I didn't have a ton of cash. I wanted to focus on the other units. So one of the tenants actually passed away a few months after that. So that was my next like, you want to do this thing? Here you go type deal. So it was another kind of like, clean out the unit, the family helped with that. And then a lot of DIYing at the beginning, like the first few properties, it's I didn't have a ton of cash. It was, I was working like a job, getting paid 40 grand a year. This was my first property.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  So we did, I'm not good at DIYing, but we did a lot of DIYing. So we just kind of made it happen. And I would do some stuff to like, get creative, like I would buy kitchens off of Craigslist from like high end areas that they, they bought like a two-year-old home and they wanted a new kitchen. So people would list their kitchens on Craigslist with like the granite and stuff. So.

• 7:28Dave Meyer?

  Like the whole kitchen, just like all the cabinets?

• 7:31Speaker 01

  All the cabinets.

• 7:31Dave Meyer?

  Downer tops, everything?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  So I, we would go to pick it up in a U-Haul to save money on the materials, Facebook Marketplace.

• 7:39Dave Meyer?

  Funny. Do you have to like find ones that are oriented the right way?

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Kinda.

• 7:45Dave Meyer?

  The right shape of the unit? Cause I'm sure some of them are like, have islands or L shape or something like that.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, we got creative with it for sure, but actually use like the same kitchen in multiple properties, like with apartments and stuff. Cause these kitchens were like almost million dollar houses.

• 8:00Dave Meyer?

  Oh, like there's enough cabinets for two or three different units? Oh, that's awesome.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we did a lot of that at the beginning. It was just making do with what I had and saving, like saving money on the materials and that, that was kind of the first few.

• 8:15Dave Meyer?

  Probably a nicer kitchen than you would buy. Like if you went and bought rental grade, you know, cabinets at Home Depot or whatever, it's probably nicer what you bought on Facebook Marketplace.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, these were, these were high-end like homes. So it was a way to kind of cheat the system, I guess.

• 8:30Dave Meyer?

  So once you got sort of these places stabilized, like, how did that impact your lifestyle? Cause you're trying to get fire, you're working full-time. Like was this, generating a lot of cash flow for you or like what, what did it do for you on a day-to-day basis?

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. So obviously living for free and having that extra on top of my mortgage from the other rents, to basically pay for my utilities. So that's huge. Just. Having your housing covered at the beginning, it really allows you to start stacking some money just to live below your means in general. So that's a huge expense. That's the appeal of house hacking in the beginning to even make it to the point where you can start saving money, give yourself some runway. So after a year, like my plan was to house hack basically every year on the year. And I ended up doing seven of them total because of that. So

• 9:22Dave Meyer?

  Wait, what?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Seven houses.

• 9:23Dave Meyer?

  Seven?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yep. That's kind of my thing is the house hacks. Like I'm known as the house hacker.

• 9:28Dave Meyer?

  Oh, my God. Okay. But so just, I want to ask about that. But so basically, you took the money that you were generating and you just started stocking it away with this idea that I'm going to go buy a house hack one year. And just for everyone to know, like when you buy, you know, with a lot of loans, you basically have to agree to live in the property for a year. So Jeremy's basically saying, he's like, all right, I bought one and one year I can move into a new one. And so you just started taking your cash flow and saving it up. Is that right?

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So saving up for the next one. And you thought 125 was cheap. The next one was actually a single family. Because at the time, it was just FHA for the two to four units. If I wanted another duplex, I needed at least 15% down. So

• 10:16Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  This one was a single family that I did 5% down, conventional.

• 10:20Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  And then same thing there. I got the 3% seller's assist. So I didn't need much. It was 48,000 was the purchase price.

• 10:27Dave Meyer?

  Wow.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  And this thing only needed cosmetics. Like all we did was paint, refinish the hardwoods. It was generally livable outside of that. That was the second one. It was me and my, my now wife, then girlfriend, we just split the mortgage, basically, which was like $420 total.

• 10:43Dave Meyer?

  Like, so when you moved out of the first one, you rented your old place. Was that, you know, like the rent you basically generated from that, was that enough to cover your new mortgage essentially?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically. And then some.

• 10:57Dave Meyer?

  So you're still living for free in essence, even though you're like, are paying a mortgage, the rent more than made up for it?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like, we were splitting it. So I think my portion was like 200, basically.

• 11:07Dave Meyer?

  Okay. Wow.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  And then this one was kind of the first BRRRR, you could say. So as I was learning more about real estate investing, the concept of BRRRR was starting to become more popular as well. So I'm like, okay, this one needs some work. I know it's worth more fixed up. At the time, I think it was worth like 125,000 fixed up.

• 11:26Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Buying it for 48. I knew we could do a lot of this stuff ourselves. So I think I only ended up putting as far as cash out of my pocket, like 25,000 into it. So I had a pretty good chunk of equity after doing that rehab. So I knew that at some point soon I could refinance that. And that's when I caught a good, a big chunk of money to then continue to build the portfolio. Like, I think I refinanced that a couple of years later after I had rented it out. And I got like my first big check, which was kind of cool feeling. It was like 50,000 tax free. So that was my like, okay, this-

• 12:04Dave Meyer?

  When you actually went to refinance.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, all right, there's something, this could work.

• 12:10Dave Meyer?

  All right. So it sounds like you did two successful house hacks, but you've done seven. I want to hear about the other five, but we do have to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle? Active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes 10% below market value in the best markets across the country without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what Rent to Retirement does. They're a full-service turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%.

• 12:53Dave Meyer?

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• 13:37Dave Meyer?

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• 14:22Dave Meyer?

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• 14:40Henry Washington?

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• 15:25Henry Washington?

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• 15:44Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. I'm here with investor Jeremy Taggart talking about how he's done not one or two, but seven different house hacks. We've got through the first two. First was a triple act. Second was a single family home with the burr. You got a big check, Jeremy, 50 grand. What did you decide to do with it from there?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Third one was actually, at this point in time, a local bank here in Pittsburgh. They started offering 5% down owner occupant two to four unit loans. And this was before like the Fanny Freddie even did it, which I think was like last year. I think that was kind of a game changer. I'm like, all right, they're going to give me as many of these as I want at 5% down. I'm doing this like, there's no end to this, basically. So.

• 16:28Dave Meyer?

  And just for everyone who knows, like lending rules change all the time, but for tradition, a lot of mortgages that investors use, like a FHA loan, you didn't used to be able to put 5% down on more than a single family. That has changed, but it sounds like Jeremy sort of beat, beat the lenders to the punch and used a local bank that would allow him to put just 5% down on a multifamily unit. Was it a similar profile of deal that you were looking for? Like, what was, what was the third one? Like that similar to their first one?

• 17:01Speaker 01

  The beginning, I was focusing a lot more on cash flow. Like, that was my main metric. Like, I wanted to find basically something that would maximize the cash flow side of things. I wasn't quite as concerned with like, long-term upside. So I was looking for up and coming areas, properties that needed some cosmetic work, maybe they were under rented. So that third one, yeah, it was a duplex. And that, this was interesting too, because during this time, I think right after I closed on my second one, I was having issues with agents. Like, I then went through like four or five of them to find one that even relatively was on the same page as me on the investing side of things.

• 17:41Dave Meyer?

  Really?

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a struggle for sure. Like, I definitely knew more than all of them, which I thought was an issue because I was a new investor.

• 17:48Dave Meyer?

  Totally. Yeah, that's frustrating. You want someone under. Team who like can teach you something, especially when you're, you know, two or three deals into your career.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  This was when I'm like, all right, I think there's a need here for investor friendly agents. So I got my license. I think it was end of 2017 is when I got it, my real estate license. And I was kind of frustrated in my job too, because like most W two jobs, you're starting out at a base salary. It was like 45,000. Um, I wanted to make more money and like, I remember asking my boss, like, how can I make more money? And they're like, that's not how it works. So I'm just like, all right, I need to figure something out.

• 18:27Dave Meyer?

  That's a hard no. You're not getting a raise.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  So they couldn't give me an answer and I'm like, all right, this seems kind of like a dead end. So I got my license and I'm like, I'll do this on the side. There's a need for it. I think I could get clients relatively easily. Got that, did two of them at the same time. So it was kind of the same thing here. I was working a lot. Like I was doing the agent thing, nights and weekends, even some at work, which they weren't a huge fan of.

• 18:52Dave Meyer?

  Oh, I'd imagine, yeah. That's, that's just moving you further away from your objective of getting a raise. I'm sure that's not, uh, you know, they frown upon that a little bit.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  It was kind of a slow death of the me working a W two job eventually to the point where they ended up firing me after I got the third house hack. So that was a big turning point in my career and it, I was fine with it because that first year, part time, I was making more, I actually made more as an agent, part time than I did in my W two job.

• 19:28Dave Meyer?

  Oh, really?

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it was like, all right, I'll just do this full time. I already kind of have a decent client base. I can jump into it and essentially there's no ceiling on the income for the agent side of things. So that's when things really kind of started to skyrocket on the active income for me. Like from that point on, it was just kind of my personality and just work ethic. It was a very good fit doing the agent side of things. So it, I'm still doing it now. Like I have a team at this point.

• 19:56Dave Meyer?

  Congratulations on, you know, going into being an agent. Sounds like you're really successful. I want to ask you more about that. But I'm curious, like as your income. Started to increase. You said you doubled your active income, which is incredible. Did that start shifting your strategy? We already know you did seven house hacks, but did you start wanting to buy or do anything outside of the house hack strategy as well?

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So 2020, when I started to get a lot more active income coming in, in addition to obviously the first two properties, cash flowing at that point, I had that $50,000 check I got from the the second one, which was kind of a burr and then making the extra money on the agent side of things. So it was at that point, it was like, okay, I can start doing things in addition to the house hacks now and really start to scale this thing up. And I think at that point I had solidified my kind of initial goals, which were 30 units by the time I turned 30 and I wanted to hit a million dollars net worth by the time I turned 30. So those were kind of my two like goals that I set for myself in my twenties, basically.

• 21:03Dave Meyer?

  Did you back into those goals for like FIRE? Were you still thinking about that? Like, okay, if I had 30 units or a million dollar net worth, I could retire by X date or is it just kind of based on your momentum, it seems like a good goal to shoot for at that point?

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was kind of calculated to the point where I'm like, okay, this would be initial financial independence, especially in a lower cost of living area. So I'm like, at this point, I can essentially live off of this portfolio if I wanted to. By the time I'm 30.

• 21:32Dave Meyer?

  By 30, that's, I mean, that's a great goal.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that was kind of like, I worked backwards from it and figured out basically what do I need to do to get to this point? And I was deadlocked on that essentially throughout my twenties. So it was like, everything revolved around me hitting that. And I'm very goal oriented. So like, I was making sure I was doing everything the right way to make sure I hit that. That's when 2020 was a big year for me because like I said, I started doing some burrs and I did a house flip that year as well. In addition to the house hack, 2020, I bought another house hack that was a duplex, kind of the same concept, like all these house hacks were. Make sure it covers the mortgage, buy a 5% down. Look for some stuff that needs cosmetic work and the fourth house hack was cool because I bought

• 22:19Speaker 01

  that one off of Craigslist also.

• 22:21Dave Meyer?

  Really?

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Craigslist was my go-to for.

• 22:24Dave Meyer?

  Different time. Was he still or no?

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Not as much now.

• 22:27Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  It kind of faded Facebook Marketplace now, but I actually bought a, uh, two properties off of Craigslist in 2020.

• 22:35Dave Meyer?

  Wow.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  So yeah, the big thing for me in March, I bought a single family house and this is when I started using other people's money. This was the very first time, basically. So I borrowed hard money for, actually from a client. So just building the relationship. He lent me 80% of the purchase price and the full cost of the rehab. And then I had the seller hold a second mortgage for the down payment to the hard money lender. So I was into this thing for like five grand, just for closing costs, maybe like three grand. And that was my first big, big rehab. Like I think the rehab costs like 80 something thousand.

• 23:15Dave Meyer?

  Yeah. I mean, compared to your purchase price, it's serious.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the purchase price was I think 55,000 on that. And so almost double the purchase price. So that was scary too, because that's, I bought it right before COVID lockdown. So I was kind of freaking out a little bit when things were shutting down and I had this dilapidated house that needs 80 grand in work and the contractors have to stop working. So we made it through that. As you know, the real estate market exploded after that. Got through the rehab and this one actually was net profit when I sold it in July, when the market blew up, net profit of 93,000 on that flip. My very first house flip. So that, having that cash as well, in addition to like the

• 24:03Speaker 01

  agent side of things, like it was almost like rocket fuel at that point. So. Then it just became like, I'm all right. This thing's, I can use other people's money to make 93,000. Like, this is pretty cool. If you know what you're doing and buy good deals that have good margins on them, I can just rinse and repeat, do this over and over. So at that point, it was house hacks and burrs is how I'm going to get to my goals, essentially.

• 24:29Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Really, from 2020 until now, it's just been house hacks and burrs. I got very good at finding good deals. I worked as an agent. I knew the market like the back of my hand.

• 24:39Dave Meyer?

  You just don't need to do that much more. These are proven business model that has clearly worked really well for you, Jeremy. It's worked well for so many investors that I know. Uh, so I know people out there, there are fun, exciting things to do. You know, short-term rentals or rent by the room, all those things are great. But like, you don't have to do all of them. If you can just pick one or two of them, like Jeremy did, you can clearly, uh, get a lot of momentum and success. I want to hear more about the deals you're doing now, but we do need to take one more quick break. We'll be right back. For my wife's birthday, I wanted to make her a new website for her landscape design business. So I researched a lot of different options. I tried out a couple, but honestly, it was really overwhelming.

• 25:20Dave Meyer?

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• 26:01Dave Meyer?

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• 26:45Dave Meyer?

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• 30:27Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. We're here with Jeremy Taggart, talking about how he has used house hack and BRRRR to build a really great portfolio in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Jeremy, you know, I'm sure you've seen that market change, both as an agent and as an investor, a lot over the last couple of years. So tell me a little bit more about what's going on in your portfolio, how you're finding deals, and what the returns look like in today's market.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  As the market changed, my personal investment goals kind of changed as well. So it shifted what I invested in, basically. So like I said, at the beginning, it was more cash flow focused, wanted to get that initial financial freedom chunk of cash flow coming in each month to reach that goal. And kind of once I was there, then it became still the BRRRR concept, like, I'll always do that, buy it under market value, rehab it, have it worth more after, and utilize other people's money to get to that point. But then it became kind of like higher end areas, higher priced properties, higher quality properties. Like I've bought a lot more like side-by-side townhomes rather than up-downs, stuff like that. And they're

• 31:35Speaker 01

  expensive properties by Pittsburgh standards. So like the house hacks then shifted to, instead of maximizing cash flow, my house hack criteria turned into, I want to buy the most expensive property I can purchase with this low down payment that at least breaks even.

• 31:54Dave Meyer?

  Tell us a little just about that thought process.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  It was the market shifting and just me becoming more knowledgeable as an investor, what builds more wealth over time. I started to look more at appreciation, rent growth, principal pay down, depreciation, which as an agent, I'm a real estate professional status, so I can use losses.

• 32:15Dave Meyer?

  Real good tax benefit.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm definitely taking advantage of that now. Like I just did my taxes this year. I had like ridiculous loss on the tax return on paper that offset my agent income because of the depreciation. So then it became like, I'm looking at the overall ROI on this money. That I'm putting into the house hack and 5% of 200,000 versus 5% of 500,000 isn't that much more out of pocket to acquire it.

• 32:45Dave Meyer?

  Right.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  So, but you're getting way more principal pay down, you're getting way more appreciation from a dollar amount standpoint, and you're getting way more depreciation for not much more money out of pocket. So in terms of like overall ROI, using all the factors rather than just cash flow, that's going to be your best bet on the house hacks at this point. So that's kind of what I've been focusing on as the market has shifted, as my overall financial picture shifted to the point where I'm prioritizing year, year 15, year 20 from now to get to that point. And I want to own nice properties, kind of when they're paid off at that point, the, the rents are going to be way higher.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  So that's kind of how it shifted for me personally, um, and the market in general, I think.

• 33:32Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, I, I mean, I'm doing the same thing. I think like now when I buy properties, I'm like, you know, I used to buy properties that were built in 1890, you know, like 1910. It's like, ah, you know, when I'm retired at 50, I don't want to be, I don't want to be taking care of that property. I'm just going to buy something, maybe the cash flow is not as good now, but I know it's going to be in good shape, you know, like I'm not going to have to do these like huge renovations on them. And I, I, I really sort of just resonate with this idea of buying properties 15, 20 years from now. Like it's so hard to guess what's going to happen between now and then, but real estate over those long time periods always performs. And I find that in these times of uncertainty like we're in right now, no one knows what's

• 34:15Dave Meyer?

  going to happen next year, you know, no one's going to know what's going to happen six months from now, but like 15, 20 years from now, I feel pretty good that real estate is going to do pretty well. And these properties are going to be cash flowing and they're going to be doing better. So buying assets with that mindset to me just makes so much sense. I do want to ask you, Jeremy, about Pittsburgh. I've always been curious because you know, I do a lot of these analyses or I'm like just pulling data on markets and like, there's a lot. On paper to like about Pittsburgh, obviously you're an agent there. So and an investor there, you're buying there. But like, tell us a little bit about Pittsburgh and why you think it makes a good investing market.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Most areas are going to cash flow positive. Like, we're hitting the 1% rule on like turnkey or close to it. Yeah. Multi-family specifically, we have a pretty good amount of them. But except really, the only areas that won't hit that are kind of the A-class areas. Like, those are kind of more owner occupant areas at this point. But I like it because and it's, I have a unique perspective too, because I grew up here. So I kind of know the livability side of things. Like, I think it's a very good value for the amenities that we get are still the big city amenities. But it's super cheap to live here. Like, you can buy a mansion in a good school district for like 600 grand.

• 35:28Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  As far as like, long-term forever home type deal. So, but we have all the major sports teams, we have all the amenities. So it's not, it's a good place to live. And the average home price is like 220,000. So I, I just,

• 35:44Dave Meyer?

  That's wild.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  I've been to a lot of other cities too recently, like traveling more. I think that it's a good value. Like, I think that is what appeals to me long-term, that if I know it's a good value now, and every, anytime anybody comes visits here, they're like, oh, this is actually kind of a cool city. Like, I thought Pittsburgh was a rundown, old steel mill, Rust Belt city that nobody even liked to come to. And they, and they kind of like it when they visit here. So seeing that perspective as well. So I kind of like to look at like the livability side of things, which plays a big role in the investment side of things as well, I think, because it's just spotting things that are undervalued, basically. And the nice thing here is it's still cash flows, but we have a lot of upside for that reason.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  And we kind of have a diverse economy with employers, like healthcare is real big. We have universities, a lot of hospitals. But the tech scene is kind of starting to pick up as well. And the fact that it's so cheap here, they don't have to pay their employees as much. Everything's cheaper. So it's, I'm liking what I'm seeing in terms of that sector.

• 36:50Dave Meyer?

  So this is a fun trivia question. I often ask people, but we're talking about Pittsburgh. So you already know the answer to that. The actually the most affordable housing market in any OECD country, which is just sort of the most, I think 38 most advanced economies in the country, in the world. Pittsburgh's the most affordable. And that's not saying it has the cheapest housing, but the ratio of incomes to housing and other costs is the best in Pittsburgh. So I've always just found that like fascinating. And, you know, as everything in, you know, housing is getting more expensive, everything's getting more expensive. I just, I always think that cities that have that

• 37:32Dave Meyer?

  level of affordability, that's a good marker for potential growth in the future. But I guess we'll have to see. But I think that there's a lot to like about it.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think just all the Rust Belt cities, I think they're, they're going to become cool here within the next five to 10 years because they're affordable, my opinion at least.

• 37:47Dave Meyer?

  I agree. I think there's a lot. I actually was looking at some population data this morning. And like for years during the pandemic, you know, people are leaving the Midwest and the Northeast and the West and moving to the Southeast. The Southeast is still growing the fastest per capita, but a lot of the Midwest is starting to grow again, like population wise, and net migration is going up in a lot of these areas. And I don't know if that's return to work or some just like inevitable return to normal from the COVID years. But I think it's really interesting and will have an impact on the housing market that we're going to have to watch. So Jeremy, before we get out of here, I got to ask you, your goal, 30, 30 units by 30, did you get there?

• 38:26Speaker 01

  It was crazy too, because I hit both of them at 28.

• 38:30Dave Meyer?

  Oh, nice. Good for you.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  The net worth goal and the 30 units goal. Yeah.

• 38:34Dave Meyer?

  That's awesome.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  It's just funny how you set your mind on something and then it just so happens to happen like that on the same property. But yeah, so we hit that a little early and then I was planning on kind of stopping at 30 units at that point, but now we're almost at 50. So it's, I'm a, I'm addicted to buying deals. So it's, we'll see how it goes here in the future.

• 38:54Dave Meyer?

  Sounds like you're good at it. It's probably fun. Do you have a new goal in mind? Or you're just kind of seeing where it takes you?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  I don't know. Yeah, we're kind of just like, I'm still buying deals now, even though I don't necessarily need them. But at this point, it's, it's just kind of compounding has taken effect as far as cash flow and, and net worth and all that. So we're kind of just playing, playing it by year, continuing to do what I, what I enjoy doing with the agent side of things. And I do like kind of keeping it the small portfolio, though, kind of like the Chad Carson, small and mighty. Like, I don't ever foresee myself having hundreds of units, just because I, I'm good with, like, where I'm at now, 50 units. If I have 50 units paid off, like, I don't really need much more money than that. So.

• 39:40Dave Meyer?

  That's amazing.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I'm leaning more towards that, but it's still TBD, I guess, where we'll end up on the, on that side of things.

• 39:46Dave Meyer?

  Well, congratulations on all your success, Jeremy, and thanks for coming on and sharing your story with us. We appreciate it.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me.

• 39:53Dave Meyer?

  And thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We'll see you next time.

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