504 | The Little Things

In this solo episode, Joshua talks about disagreeing about the little things at home, his new rule for online shopping, a few stupid things he's purchased that he'll never buy again, and much more. Discussed in this episode: Why do my minimalist spouse and I keep arguing about the little things? (2:17) Talkaboutable: The Amazon Shopping Rule. (19:11) Talkaboutable: Three stupid things I've purchased that I'll never buy again. (22:00) Right Here, Right Now: A return to video, a new perk for Patrons, and Minimalism turns two. (24:47) Listener Tip: Surprising things that dirty your clothes. (30:32) Listen to the full Maximal episode on Patreon: patreon.com/theminimalists http://patreon.com/theminimalists Detailed show notes: minimalists.com/podcast http://minimalists.com/podcast Recorded at Earthing Studios http://earthing.com/simple.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'll be fine without it.

• 0:39Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Minimalist Podcast, where we discuss what it means to live a meaningful life with less. My name is Joshua Fields Milburn, and we're recording this episode here at Earthing Studios in beautiful West Hollywood, California. My co-host TK Coleman is in Chicago this week. He'll be back next week. I was supposed to have a different co-host here today. No, not Nicodemus. He's still in Montana. Dr. John Deloney was going to join me today, but I got a phone call from him last week, or last night, rather. And he had an emergency. He actually ended up in the emergency room. Not for him, but a loved one ended up in the emergency room, so he couldn't make his flight and make it out here to Southern California. We'll bring him on the podcast to answer your questions on a future episode.

• 1:22Joshua Fields Millburn?

  But today, you get a solo JFM show coming up on this free public minimal episode. A caller has a question about arguing with her husband over the little things. And then I'm going to talk about my new rule for online shopping, plus a few stupid things I've purchased over the years that I'll never buy again. As always, you can listen to the full two-hour maximal edition of this episode, where we answer three times as many questions on Patreon. The link is in the description. By the way, big thanks to our patrons. Your support keeps our podcast 100% advertisement-free, because sing along at home, y'all. Advertisements suck. Yes, they do. Let's start with our callers.

• 2:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  If you have a question or a comment for our show, we'd love to hear from you. 406-219-7839 to be a part of the show, or you can email a voice recording to [email protected]. Our first question today is from Tracy.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Hello, minimalist. My name is Tracy. I'm contacting you because we have a disconnect in our household. My husband is a minimalist. He grew up in a home that was like a hotel. You couldn't touch anything. Rooms had carpets you couldn't walk across because you would leave footprints. So he comes from a neat freak background and money. And I come from a background of not having a lot and keeping things as long as you can, reusing them as you can, and holding on to them because you can't rebuy them. And then on top of that, I no longer work. He has all the money power. And when an Amazon box shows up, he gets upset with me. And sometimes it's something that is for the household.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's something that I need to replace something that I got rid of that I needed. And sometimes it's just a small treat. Now, how do I balance this between his world of buying nothing and surviving? And my world of, you know, I grew up keeping things because I need them. And then as soon as I get rid of it, I need it. And I know you say this all the time, do you really need it? But it keeps happening. So how do I find the balance to where it's not causing problems in my marriage, which it currently is? How do I go about finding that middle ground where he's happy and I don't feel empty for getting rid of everything? Thanks a lot. I appreciate everything you guys do.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  And I just ordered one of your books, so I'm looking forward to reading them. Have a great day.

• 3:55Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Tracy, I'm going to tell you a story that you're going to think has nothing to do with your question, but I assure you it does. And we'll get back to your question here in a moment. Just yesterday, I went to the gym, actually the pool there. I was swimming my laps for the day. And at the end, I realized, oh, wait, I'm doing this podcast tomorrow. And I had about a week's worth of beard. And so I wanted to shave that off because I didn't want you to see all the gray hairs that show up in my very blonde beard. And so I'm there, I take a shower in the locker room, and I get my little dob kit out, and I put my little shaving cream on. And I'm shaving my face, and I realize this is my last razor. And it's really dull. And it gets to a point where, uh-oh, it's not shaving at all now.

• 4:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And all I have left is this goatee. And so I'm staring in the mirror, looking at this goatee that I have. And I'm like, oh, no. I can't go home like this. Now, why can't I go home like this? Does my wife say, "I forbid you from having a goatee in this household"? No, of course, she wouldn't treat me like that. But I know how much my wife strongly dislikes goatees. In fact, so much so that when I got home, I went to our guest house and quickly shaved off the goatee before I went inside. Now, why would I do something like that? Because my wife has reasonable preferences, and I want to honor those preferences. I don't just want to tolerate her preferences.

• 5:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I think tolerance is a great first step, but I want to accept the fact that she has certain preferences that are within reason. I want to respect those preferences, and ultimately, I want to appreciate those preferences because I recognize that she appreciates my preferences as well. Now, Tracy, it's gonna sound like I'm siding with your husband here. That could not be further from the truth. I identify with both of you. I identify with you because you want a certain sense of control or autonomy in your home. I want to be able to buy things without being judged, without being ridiculed, without being disrespected, without feeling like I'm not allowed to do this, right? I get that. I also understand your husband.

• 6:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It sounds like he may have some level of OCD that is birthed out of his upbringing, right? I get that because I have that, right? And he has minimalist tendencies, and I guess I do now. I didn't always have minimalist tendencies. I, like your husband, am also a neat freak, but I was a neat freak when I had a lot of things. When I had hundreds of thousands of items in my home, I was still a bit of a neat freak. And a lot of packages would show up on my doorstep every day. But now, when packages show up on my doorstep, I identify with your husband because I just don't like seeing new packages show up on the doorstep because I have to do something with it now. I have to open it, or I have to set it on a counter, and now it's gonna pile up with the mail and the car keys and the receipts. And, oh, no, I don't like that because I have a preference.

• 6:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  In fact, the minimalist call it the "no piles" rule. I don't like having any piles. Our flat surfaces in our homes become these magnets for piles of clutter to quickly accumulate. One receipt turns into a pile of junk within a few days. And so, yes, I identify with your husband, but I side with you on this. I want to feel like I'm in control. I don't want to feel like someone has dominion over me. But also, I love the people in my home. I wanna, I wanna find a way, I wanna find that balance that you're talking about. I wanna respect them enough that these little things don't turn into big things

• 7:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  on a long enough timeline. I remember when I was 19 years old, I, I heard Tony Robbins say, "Kill Godzilla when he's a baby, don't wait until he's taking over the city." That's why I'm glad you're calling in now. You're calling in to talk about these little things. They're a little bit of a problem right now. But those little problems can turn into Godzilla, because every monster was once a baby monster. Let's kill that baby monster right now. Let's deal with that baby monster right now. Well, how can you do that? Well, of course, you can set up some boundaries, some rules in, in your home. You can download the Minimalist Rulebook over at theminimalists.com/rulebook. It's 16 rules for living with less, but they're not really rules. I don't believe in rules.

• 8:14Joshua Fields Millburn?

  They're boundaries, and they're adjustable boundaries, and you can find some boundaries that work for both you and your husband, so he can respect your preferences, your desire for autonomy, but also you can respect his desire for a tidy home. Let's be honest, if you were calling in, you weren't talking about your husband here, I'd have very different insights for you, and I might be a bit more harsh. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be trying to keep the peace in your home, because there wouldn't be any peace in your home. It would be chaos, and you're constantly buying these things that are not making you happy. I know you're searching for happiness in the things, and, and yet you even said, "I'm trying to fill that, that emptiness that I feel." How's that working out? Have you ever purchased enough things to fill the void?

• 8:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That's what I'd tell you if you were just calling in by yourself. If this wasn't about you and your husband and your shared household, I'd be a lot more stern with you. I'd say those things are never going to fill the void. And I think you know that already, and maybe it's nice to get a reminder. I would tell you that the things you think you need are just things that you want. But a year from now, are you going to want those things? Two years from now, are you going to want those things? Or is it more likely that 30 days from now, they're just going to be clutter? And they're going to take up space in a garage, or attic, or cabinet, or closet, or credenza somewhere in your home? And you'll set them aside, and then you'll have to deal with it later. And those little things will pile up.

• 9:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And over time, those little things will become big things. And you and your husband aren't going to be arguing about the Amazon box that shows up on the porch every other day. You're going to be arguing about, "Why don't you ever respect me? Why don't you trust me? Why don't you love me? Why don't you care about me? Why don't you, why don't you see me anymore?" Well, maybe one of the reasons it's difficult to see each other in a relationship is because of the things that get in the way. Anything that gets in the way is clutter. And it always starts with those material possessions. But of course, the physical clutter is just a physical manifestation of whatever else is going on inside you, or inside your household.

• 10:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so if you have emotional clutter in the home, or relationship clutter, or calendar clutter, or career clutter, or, let's face it, financial clutter is a direct result of going into debt for a lot of the things that we think we need. That's all a problem. And so if I were just talking to you, I would talk to you about the things that you're bringing into your life, and how they're not going to fill the void, they're simply going to widen it. It's going to create that canyon that just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. But I'd rather talk to you about a specific kind of canyon today. I want to talk about that canyon that's taking place in your relationship right now.

• 11:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  There's a small chasm.

• 11:12Joshua Fields Millburn?

  There's a fault line between you and your husband right now. And that will turn into a canyon if you're not able to get on the same page. To get on the same page, you have to understand what each person wants. What does he want out of that clean and calm home? Well, maybe he just wants to come home and feel calm. Because maybe the rest of the day outside of the home is chaos. Maybe coming home from work is like, ah, it's been a rough day and I just, I just need a sanctuary. Can you help provide that? And what can he help provide for you? Maybe you want that sense of certainty. I've got autonomy over my own life. I can make my own decisions. And the way to do that is to show him I can make those decisions well.

• 11:57Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I can be responsible with the decisions. I can be a great steward of our money, as long as he is also setting that example and being a steward of your resources. Because this balance requires two parties here. This is a dance between the two of you. And if one person's dancing and the other person is a limp body, what happens? It's not a very fun or compelling dance. You feel like you're carrying around dead weight because you are. But right now, it's you're both dancing two separate dances. And no wonder you're getting so tangled up here. You're getting tangled up because, well, because you don't see what he wants and he can't see what you want. Maybe you don't even know what you want. You think you want a little treat.

• 12:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I totally get that. Treats are fine. You know what? I'll buy a treat from time to time. It's delicious. If I go to the store and get one of those little gluten-free brownies from the grocery store down the street. If I do that once a month, it's not a problem at all, right? But what if every single meal every day is made up of little treats? I'm gonna get sick really quickly. I'm gonna get physically sick. But what happens when we're purchasing little treats? So we're always treating ourselves. If everything's a treat, then nothing is a treat. What do you want out of that treat? You want a little gustatory pleasure when you're eating the thing, but when you buy the thing, what do you really want? You might say something abstract like happiness, but let's get more specific. You don't actually want happiness.

• 13:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  No one knows what that even means, right? You want some fulfillment. You want satisfaction. Maybe you want love, or you want connection. And sometimes our material possessions can amplify those things. Our possessions can help us connect with other people, both literally and metaphorically. Our possessions can enhance our relationships, can magnify or amplify our lives in really magical ways. But they can also, and most of the time, they get in the way. And that's what's happening right now. The purchases are getting in the way, and his desire for a overly neat home, as you might see it, is getting in the way.

• 14:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What do you want when you're buying those things? You don't want happiness. You want joy, you want connection. You want to feel free. You want calm. When you're buying the things that you want, or that you think you want, it's always important to ask, "What do I really want?" Because you don't want the thing. You want what the thing will bring you. What is this thing going to bring me? Whether it's a new shirt, a new pair of pants, a new piece of furniture, maybe it's some utensils, or an organizer, maybe it's a new car, some jewelry. You don't want the thing. You want the thing that the thing will bring.

• 14:52Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so you bring these little things into your life, not to bring the thing into your life, but to bring that feeling. What is that feeling that you want? And is buying the thing the best way to get that thing? Because it sounds to me like, right now, it's not giving... The things aren't giving you the things that you want. In fact, it's giving you the opposite of what you want. The things, or purchasing of the things, are giving you what you don't want. What you don't want is discontent. What you don't want is arguments. What you don't want is frustration in the household. What you don't want is not being on the same page. Now, I want to be clear, that doesn't mean acquiescing to all of his preferences. It gets back to the dance. In my own house, the reason I can go home real quick and shave my goatee off,

• 15:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  because I know my wife kinda hates goatees and I don't mind it at all. I could come in here today with a goatee on. It wouldn't be a problem for me. But I understand that's a preference of hers. And it's not an unreasonable preference. If I were to come home yesterday, she said, "It's unacceptable for you to walk on your right foot. I only want you to hop on your left foot whenever you are at home." I would tell her to kick rocks. That is an unrealistic expectation, an unrealistic preference. And I'm not going to acquiesce to something like that. But I can look at my wife and say, "Wow, I have a lot of preferences." Now, the key to a happy life, or certainly to a happy relationship,

• 16:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  is to let go of as many of those preferences as possible. If you want to be miserable, here's a really good recipe for you. Have more preferences. Have more opinions. Or even worse, think your opinions and preferences are universally true. And this is what other people should want as well. Now, if he's doing that to you, and you should want a minimalist house, you should want the home to look this way. No, no, no. I'm not saying that at all. But I'm saying it does help the relationship if you can see what he actually wants. Because when you're buying those things, maybe you're buying them to spruce up the home. You want the home to feel calm.

• 17:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So it's not that you want the things. You want to come home and you want it to feel calm. And maybe your idea of a calm house is slightly different from your husband's. Or maybe it's even appreciably different. But now, all of a sudden, we're not buying things to buy things. We're looking, how do I find the calm in my life? That's what I'm looking for. For someone else, it might be, I'm looking for excitement. I really want, I want these things that excite me. I'm going to these concerts or shows, or I'm bungee jumping. That's fine, too. You're not looking for the thing or the equipment. You're looking for that excitement. Totally fine. Now, what's your husband looking for? You might find that you're actually looking for the same exact things, but you're just looking in different places. You're looking for calm, he's looking for calm.

• 17:49Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You're looking for freedom, he's looking for freedom. You're looking for joy, and he is looking for joy. You're looking for peace in your life, and he wants peace in his life, too. If you understand that, if you know what he wants, it's so much easier to meet in the middle. And then, once you start talking about it, yes, establish some boundaries. Download the Minimalist Rulebook, theminimalists.com-rulebook, or we'll send you a free copy of the audiobook version of that as well. But it's free to download just the ebook there on our website. Identify some rules that work really well for you so you can let go of the things that are getting in the way.

• 18:32Joshua Fields Millburn?

  For our lightning round this week, we don't have a lightning round this week. I'm gonna do some Talkaboutables that I think will actually help Tracy and her question here as well. I had this great lightning round question. We're gonna save it for Dr. Deloney, though. It was about the glowing screens and how they get in the way of our relationships. And so, I really wanna talk to him about that. A bunch of you from the audience, from our Patreon community chats, you wade into the discussion. I can't wait to share those responses once he is back here in the studio. But I've got a couple Talkaboutables for you today. And I think both of these Talkaboutables will help Tracy with some practical buying boundaries as well. Because I need to be honest. I buy too many things from Amazon myself.

• 19:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So I developed this five-step minimalist shopping rule that helps me be more responsible with my online purchases. I call it the Amazon Shopping Rule. And here's how it works. Number one, the first question I ask myself is, can I just avoid buying this thing altogether? If I'm being honest with myself, I'm probably not going to want it a year from now. Maybe it's just gonna be clutter a week from now. And so if I can avoid buying it, that's the first step. Just don't buy it at all. But if I can't avoid buying it, then number two, can I buy it gently used? I usually buy my jeans used from a place like The RealReal or from eBay, or you can buy them in a local thrift shop. I can buy some things gently used.

• 20:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That goes for anything, like even a car. You can buy a used car and save a ton of money. Number three is if I can't buy it gently used, can I buy it locally? Yes, I can buy my honey on Amazon. I don't want to buy my honey used, obviously. And so I go to my local farmer's market and I support the local businesses and the local farmers at my local farmer's market instead of sending that money to Amazon. But of course, if I can't buy it locally, number four, I ask myself, can I buy it directly from the seller? The meditation cushions we have here at the studio, I buy straight from Walden. They're not a sponsor at all. I really enjoy their meditation cushions.

• 20:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  In fact, I have them at home as well and I pay for them just like everyone else. Yes, I can get meditation cushions from Amazon. There's no question about that, but I'd rather go directly to the seller whenever possible. And then if I can't buy it from the seller, I can't buy it locally, I can't buy it used, I can't avoid buying it, then I do give myself permission to buy the thing from Amazon. It's okay. Everyone watching this has purchased something from Amazon at some point. But I've realized that I can limit those purchases by adding a little friction to the process. Here's a bonus rule for you. I never purchase anything from an advertisement.

• 21:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Now, of course, we say advertisements suck every day on this podcast, but that's not why. The reason I don't buy from advertisements is because it never lives up to it. And if I have that rule in place, I know that I can't be tempted into buying some piece of junk on impulse. This applies to sponsored results on Google or ads on Instagram or Facebook. And that bonus rule alone has saved me thousands of dollars on impulse purchases.

• 22:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Okay, I'd like to talk to you about three stupid things I've purchased that I'll never buy again.

• 22:12Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I can't believe I'm doing this. I'm admitting, number one.

• 22:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Here we go. Three stupid things I've purchased in the past that I will never purchase again. Number one, when I was 20 years old, I bought a water bed.

• 22:32Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Remember those things? When was that ever a good idea? Having my furniture leak on me.

• 22:41Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That's something I'll never buy again. Number two, an expensive watch. That'd be a really stupid purchase for me today. An expensive watch? I don't even wear a watch at all. If I'm gonna buy any watch, I might as well buy a really cheap one if I'm not gonna wear it. I don't think expensive watches are stupid. In fact, if I was a watch connoisseur or collector, if I just really enjoyed wearing a watch, I'd probably want a nice watch on my wrist. But it was a dumb purchase for me for a few reasons. One is I went into debt to buy it. But it'd be a dumb purchase for me today because I don't enjoy wearing watches. And so I'd be wearing the watch to impress the people around me, even though I'm not getting any real value from it.

• 23:24Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And the third stupid thing I've purchased that I'll never buy again is a car with car payments. Now, I own a car right now. I don't have any problem with owning a vehicle. In fact, I needed to drive here to the studio today. But I never want a car payment ever again. If I can't afford the car, then, well, I don't want to buy it. And if I need a car payment, by definition, it means I can't afford the car. I think that applies to anything with debt. My only debt is my mortgage, and I don't plan on having that debt much longer. But if I have to put something on a credit card, then I can't afford it. How about you?

• 24:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Let me know in the comments. Have you ever purchased something stupid that you'll never purchase again? Maybe it was a, you bought a pet on impulse. You were at the pet store and that dog was so, so cute. And then he was pooping all over your house the next day, and a month later, you had to get rid of him. Sometimes you make these wild impulse purchases and the moment it feels so right because emotionally it feels so good. But then we punish our future selves for today's impulse. All right, that's almost the end of page one. We still have an entire switchboard of callers to talk to, but first, real quick for right here, right now, here's one thing that's going on in the life of the minimalist.

• 24:54Joshua Fields Millburn?

  If you haven't noticed, we recently returned to the video version of the podcast right after episode 500. So here's what happened. A year ago, at the peak of the minimalist's success, successes in air quotes, if you're just listening to the audio version here, we had reached more people in 2023, so about 18 months ago than we ever had reached before. We reached about half a billion people that year and a lot of that was, was through social media. And so impressions and views and clicks and swipes and I don't know all the metrics, but we reached a lot of people. But then Cal Newport came on our show and he convinced us to try a little experiment. He wanted us to do 30 days without social media, a little social media declutter.

• 25:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And we said, we're the minimalists, 30 days, that's amateur hour. What if we, what if we spend a year off of social media? So that's what we did. We walked away from social media for an entire year. And when we did that, we decided to walk away from the video version of the podcast as an experiment because I never want to be tied to anything. And so we decided to set that down because I realized that anything I set down, I can eventually pick back up if I want to pick it back up. And we're picking video back up right now and I can set it down again in the future. And the reason we set it down is this podcast, when it started, the University of Montana is where we started in this little broom closet, literally a janitor's closet. Professor Sean remembers it well. They cleared all of the, the janitorial equipment.

• 26:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  There was a mop in there and a bunch of brooms and some other storage boxes. It was a closet, basically. What do you think that was 80 square feet, 60 square? Yeah. He said, yeah, it was very large closet. Yeah. And, and it had a nice window. But they used it as a storage space and they charged 120 bucks a month to set up a couple of desks in there. It was that they, they had this tech incubator at the University of Montana there in Missoula, Montana. And it was great. We started the podcast there and it was an audio only podcast and it started growing and growing and growing. And eventually, I don't know what it was, four or five years in, we brought Jordan No More on. We started doing a,

• 27:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  a video version of the podcast and then we started clipping it up and putting it up on social media. But it's always been primarily a audio podcast. And so we went back to audio only for a long time and 85% of our listeners were audio only. And then last year, 100% of them were because we removed the video portion. Well, we're back on video. A lot of you said, oh, I really miss the video, especially the folks on, on Patreon. We're like, oh, we, I just miss the video. I like having it on there, even if it's on in the background. I enjoy watching you guys interact. And especially when you have guests on, interacting with them. And then it's great for us as well. We're not, we're not married to having to put out a video version of this. And we're certainly not married to doing

• 27:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  social media clips. But if we have something we think is compelling that people will get value from, it's a great on-ramp to our podcast. We've been doing some videos recently, single videos have been reaching millions and millions of people on Instagram and Facebook and, and TikTok. And so that's been a good on-ramp to show people this message, this podcast. It's about living a meaningful life with less. It's not the whole picture, but it brings them into our world. And if they want to listen to the free version or watch the free version on YouTube, they can do that. And if you want the expanded version, you can find it over on Patreon as well. Join the thousands of folks who are on, on our Patreon community and interact with all of those patrons as well.

• 28:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Or if you just want the free version on Apple or Spotify, you can do that. You can, you can take food out of my daughter's mouth. That's, that's fine. You can, you can keep Savvy D from getting paid or Professor Sean from getting paid. Or maybe we'll just start throwing ads on the podcast. Wouldn't that be really fun? No, we're not going to do that. But if you do support us on Patreon, big thanks to you. You do keep the podcast advertisement free. And if you haven't tried it out, there's a seven day free trial over there as well. If you want to dive in deep to the podcast, we also have all of our archives. I think you can get the public version back to episode 400, roughly, but you can get all 500 episodes and the longer versions of all of those

• 29:08Joshua Fields Millburn?

  episodes over on Patreon. I know I mentioned YouTube a moment ago. Speaking of YouTube, Minimalism just turned two this summer. Well, really, it's turning 10 years old next year. Ryan and I have been talking about doing a small tour for the 10th anniversary of Minimalism, a documentary about the important things. When it came out on Netflix in 2016, it really changed things in the minimalism world. It certainly changed things for us. It made our podcast one of the most popular podcasts in the world. And then a couple of years ago, we got the licensing rights back from Netflix for Minimalism. And we decided we want to put this out there for our audience for free and commercial free. And so we put

• 29:52Joshua Fields Millburn?

  it up on our YouTube channel. So I think about 80 million people saw it over on Netflix, maybe a little bit more. And another 13 million of you have seen it in the last two years over on YouTube. You can check that out on our YouTube channel. We'll put a link to it in the show notes as well. One more thing about Patreon. If you are subscribed to the Patreon, Sean just got three messages. I think it was yesterday. He said, hey, it's Monday. I don't see the new episode that came out. Well, yeah, we've actually been giving our patrons the episodes a day early now. So not only do you have access to all the archives, but you get the full, longer version a day early before the public version is available. All right, we've got much more coming up. But first, here's a quick insight from one of our listeners.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Hello friends. Having worked in retail where I learned about caring for fabrics, I like to offer this small consideration for the conversation about half dirty clothes. There are many invisible ways that your clothes might be dirty. For example, air pollution, deodorant crystals, the natural oils on our bodies, which is why curators use white gloves to handle art or historical objects. Sitting on a subway seat can be very dirty as well. And if you don't remove those sources of dirt, then friction or heat from your body, or worse, the heat from an iron can combine with the dirt to degrade the fabric

• 31:20Speaker 03

  or prematurely stain it. For example, dark stains under the armpits of a shirt are often leftover deodorant marks. So it is important to consider and keep track of how many times you've worn something so that you can wash it before these invisible sources of dirt damage your stain, your clothing, causing more clothing trash on our planet. It's a careful balance between overwashing, which results in prematurely wearing out the fabric and using excess water or other resources, and underwashing, which leads to premature staining or creating holes in your clothing. Thanks for the always thought-provoking commentary and advice.

• 32:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Julianne, thank you so much for that fascinating comment. You know, I didn't realize that that's why curators, I should have known that, curators in a museum wear gloves. I thought it was just because they look cool. But I guess it actually serves a purpose, right? In fact, on page three, I have two added values for you today. I saw this movie called The Square, and it is my new favorite movie. I'm not recommending it to anyone because, well, I'll talk about it a bit more on page three during the added value segment. And then maybe my new favorite song of this year, certainly my top five, I have for you coming up on page three. But Julianne, you bring up something important. It echoes what Tracy was saying earlier about balance. And maybe minimalism, another way to think about minimalism. Minimalism is a great way to achieve balance.

• 32:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It's not asceticism, it's not hoarding. Maybe it's the balance between the two. It's using the useful things, but getting the other things out of the way. But you also bring up a good point. I think about when Nicodemus and I were going out on all these tours, really long tours sometimes, 33 cities, 50 cities, 119 cities one year. And I could get by wearing the same shirt seven days in a row. In fact, once I did, I think it was 17 days, I wore the same shirt. I don't recommend that to anyone, but no one noticed. But I'll tell you, if Nicodemus wore the same shirt for three days, as burly and sweaty as he is, it would not go over well.

• 33:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So it's so highly individual, which is kind of what Tracy was talking about earlier, right? How individual our preferences are, but also how individual our bodies are. And so different results for different people. Results may vary, right? And so I think it's interesting, even when we're talking about laundry. At my house, I have to be very specific. When my wife does the laundry, I'm the ironer of the house, but quite often Beck's, both of us will do laundry, but quite often she'll default to doing my laundry. And I'll say, yeah, just use a couple of drops of this really specific soap that we use that doesn't have any harsh chemicals or anything. And when I said that, she didn't hear me.

• 34:14Joshua Fields Millburn?

  When I said, use a couple of drops, she thought I meant like a few drops. But I meant a couple as in two. I literally used two drops because I don't want to overwash my clothes and face some of the problems that Julianne mentioned. And Professor Sean, during the break, or before we started recording, rather, was talking about how he, after a patron over on our Patreon page, recommended using mineral deodorant. My wife uses that as well, so that you don't show up with some of those same pit stains that are often caused by deodorant. Or you can just simplify it all together and do what I do. Don't wear deodorant at all. Totally up to you. Wear deodorant, don't wear deodorant. But whatever you do, it's going to be your individual choice.

• 34:57Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I wish there was a specific prescription. The minimalist way to do it is to wear this brand, wear The Minimalists deodorant. Yeah, it just doesn't work that way. That's another reason I can't do ads on the show. Imagine if I was hawking some sort of deodorant for people. Even if it was like a one that I kind of felt decent about, like, I don't use it myself. I don't know. I wouldn't feel great about it. Anyway, anyone else has a listener tip or insight about this episode or any other episode, any of the episodes from the archives, send a voice memo, [email protected]. We would love to feature your voice on the show. Up next, page two and page three. But first, let's take a quick pandiculation break. We'll be right back.

• 35:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, y'all, that is the first 29% of episode 504. We'll see you on Patreon for the full maximal edition, which includes answers to a bunch more questions. Questions like, does a minimalist get a prenuptial agreement before they get married? I can guarantee you, my answer will surprise you on that one. What are the unforeseen costs of underthinking? Yeah, we often talk about overthinking, but what about underthinking? Is that a problem? Also, how does having kids or not having kids affect the experience of aging? Plus a million more questions and simple living segments over on The Minimalist Private Podcast on Patreon. When you subscribe, you can listen to our private podcast episodes on Apple or Spotify or your favorite podcast app.

• 36:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Plus you'll gain access to all of our archives, all the way back to the very first episode. And that is our minimal episode for today. Big thanks to Earthing Studios for the recording space. On behalf of Ryan Akademas, TK Coleman, post-production Peter, Spire Jeff and Spire Dave, Jordan No More, Professor Sean, Savvy D. and the rest of our team. I'm Joshua Fields Milburn. If you leave here today with just one message, let it be this: Love people.

• 36:57Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And use things. Because the opposite never works. Thanks for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'd be fine without it.