Episode 482: Mark Cuban's 5:30 AM Success Formula: How a Billionaire Structures His Day for Maximum Impact

Listen to the full episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThY-UBFtGK8 What does a billionaire's morning routine actually look like? In this Fitness Friday episode, I'm sharing an expert from my conversation with Mark Cuban about the daily habits and routines that fuel his billion-dollar empire. Tune in to discover why Mark sleeps only 5-6 hours but takes strategic naps, how he processes hundreds of emails daily while still prioritizing family time, and the surprising workout that helped him meet his wife. This isn't your typical morning routine - it's intentional living from someone who's built multiple billion-dollar companies. Mark Cuban is a billionaire entrepreneur, owner of the Dallas Mavericks, and star investor on Shark Tank. At 64, he maintains his competitive edge through basketball, Zumba classes, and a vegetarian diet while building companies that disrupt entire industries. What we discuss: Why Mark Cuban Wakes Up at Exactly 5:30 AM Every Day The Email Management System That Keeps Him Accessible to Anyone How He Balances Billion-Dollar Businesses with Being Present for His Kids Why He Refuses to Take Meetings or Phone Calls (and What He Does Instead) The Sleep Tracking Strategy That Maximizes His 5-6 Hour Nights The "Sales Cures All" Philosophy That Built His Empire How Strategic Napping Became Part of His Success Formula Thank you to our sponsor: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com http://therasage.com/ and use code Be Bold for 15% off Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com http://airdoctorpro.com/ and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www http://www/.magicmind.com http://magicmind.com//jen and use code Jen at checkout. 99designs by Vista: 99designs.com/jen20 http://99designs.com/jen20 – click "Claim my discount" to get $20 off your first design contest. Momentous: Shop this link https://www.livemomentous.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorDUIZz3psr1Qsq_n1yE8_6JTq_QUFabOO9lH65HDEXCIoJOPLj and use code Jen for 20% off Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order Find more from Mark Cuban: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mcuban/ Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:09Jen Cohen?

  Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle Podcast, where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up.

• 0:32Jen Cohen?

  Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor Therasage. Their Trillight Panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for.

• 1:14Jen Cohen?

  I personally use Therasage Trillight everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code BEBOULLED for 15% off. This code will work site-wide. Again, head over to therasage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E.com, and use code BEBOULLED for 15% off any of their products.

• 1:56Jen Cohen?

  Like your schedule between the Shark Tank, Shark Tank, all those companies doing like these things. I mean, like, what time are you waking up in the morning?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Six, 5:36.

• 2:05Jen Cohen?

  Like, what's the day? Like, give me a day in the life of you.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  I probably should admit this, but like, I'll get up at 5:36, particularly during the school year, my kids are going to school.

• 2:12Jen Cohen?

  You have three kids, too?

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, 12, 15, and 18. Yeah.

• 2:14Jen Cohen?

  Are you involved? Do you see these kids?

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17Jen Cohen?

  How are you able to do all of this?

• 2:18Speaker 02

  I don't travel that much unless they're out doing stuff.

• 2:22Jen Cohen?

  Really?

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Right now, my middle daughter, Alyssa, is at camp. My wife and my youngest son Jake, who's 12, are in Iceland right now. They went on a trip because while I'm shooting Shark Tank, that's when they all know to go do their trips.

• 2:34Jen Cohen?

  That's a good idea.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then my oldest is on a trip as well, so with her class. And so all, you know, so while we're shooting, they're gone. And so that's when I pack everything in.

• 2:42Jen Cohen?

  And then you do everything?

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. But otherwise, you know, I can do one day trips here and one day trips there because, you know, I'd rather spend time with my family.

• 2:49Jen Cohen?

  So you are, like, you spend a lot of time with your...

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's the best part of my life. Yeah.

• 2:54Jen Cohen?

  So tell me the day, give me your day. Like, you wake up at, you said, 6 o'clock?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, 5:36, do, you know, say hi to everybody, gets everybody going to school if that's what's up. And then do my email and typically get back in bed, do my email, get through any emergencies, go back, take a nap.

• 3:11Jen Cohen?

  Really?

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 3:12Jen Cohen?

  So wait, so you do the emails first before you do anything else, right?

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16Jen Cohen?

  That's why I thought that you'd said that a bunch of times.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, I've got an iWatch like you, right? So I look at my sleep, right? Where, why sleep?

• 3:22Jen Cohen?

  So you wear an Oura ring or anything like that?

• 3:23Speaker 02

  No, that, I think, yeah, I didn't get the...

• 3:25Jen Cohen?

  I'm surprised because you love all the...

• 3:27Speaker 02

  I love all the technology and stuff, yeah, but I just didn't get the feedback. You know, I tried a Whoop and just the data, yeah.

• 3:33Jen Cohen?

  I didn't like that either. It was also like cumbersome.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a pain in the ass, right?

• 3:37Jen Cohen?

  Terrible.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I get good data with this. And yeah, Whoop wasn't awful, but I already had this, right? So...

• 3:42Jen Cohen?

  You know, exactly. Like, then you're just constantly like looking at all these different things on your...

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Right. And it's not just exercise stuff. I can get stock prices and all that other shit, right?

• 3:50Jen Cohen?

  Absolutely.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Um, and so I'll see how much sleep I got, you know, because you don't really, you might feel okay and you don't, you know when you didn't sleep, but sometimes you don't know how much sleep you got.

• 4:00Jen Cohen?

  100%, exactly.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  And so like, if I got my 200 deepest sleep, right, my two hours, rather, then I'm usually pretty good.

• 4:08Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Right?

• 4:09Jen Cohen?

  So wait, what time do you go to bed at night?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Typically anywhere from midnight to 1:30.

• 4:13Jen Cohen?

  Okay, and then you wake up around, okay, so you get like you're in bed for five, six hours.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  And then if I didn't really get good sleep. Then I get my email done.

• 4:22Jen Cohen?

  And go back to bed.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Go back to sleep, yeah.

• 4:23Jen Cohen?

  Really? I am so shocked.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I get an hour, like I'm not one of these people that's just like, oh, I just gotta slug it out, whatever. Cause remember, everybody's got kiss my ass.

• 4:33Jen Cohen?

  I love you so much. Yes, they do.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  You know, they might say not, right? And I might not like it, because I hate that, but everybody works to my schedule. You know, it's like.

• 4:45Jen Cohen?

  I love you.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Tomorrow, yeah, sure, okay. Can you come over now? Sure. Now, and I don't really do meetings or calls. I really, really don't because.

• 4:52Jen Cohen?

  Waste of time.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and plus, like, there's no record of it. I can't, it's not searchable, because I have so much shit going on. That I want to be able to go back and look and say, okay, when did Jen hit me up last? And, you know, what were we talking about? What was the topic?

• 5:06Jen Cohen?

  So you like to have it in writing?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like to have it so it's searchable.

• 5:09Jen Cohen?

  Which is different than that dust thing that you're involved with.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Dust is like a real time version of a face to face conversation. So with dust, it's important because there's certain business things that I want to talk about. That we're not going to be face to face, but I don't want it to be an email. And I don't want there to be a record of a phone call.

• 5:25Jen Cohen?

  Exactly.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  You know, because let's say we're getting ready to fire somebody, or, you know, there's a lawsuit, you know, that, that.

• 5:31Jen Cohen?

  You get sued a lot?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  No, hardly ever.

• 5:34Jen Cohen?

  Really?

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, hardly.

• 5:35Jen Cohen?

  At your level?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, less than 10 times my entire life. And, you know, half of them were garbage. Yeah.

• 5:41Jen Cohen?

  That is, that's incredible, by the way. I've never heard of such a thing.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 5:45Jen Cohen?

  Your kind of like wealth.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I never sue people either. It's just not worth the hassle.

• 5:49Jen Cohen?

  I know, it's probably like, it's worth, it's like the time and energy and the money that it actually takes.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  It's not worth it. But yeah, so I use dust all the time. You can hit me up on their blog, Maverick. You know, I answer questions, just because I want to support the platform, but, you know, it's just because I want some things to be private. And, you know, with dust, when you send a message, it auto, you can delete it when you want, or it auto deletes. But it's never stored on a hard drive anywhere. And so there's just no way to retrieve it, period, end of story.

• 6:19Jen Cohen?

  So I never even heard of this before I started like digging deep into your life. Like, I mean, I didn't realize like this is like a thing like people are using it and it's Amir, did you even know it existed? Oh, sorry.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Well, that's been around like eight years.

• 6:33Jen Cohen?

  Genius. That's why you know, but like, but it sounded like Snapchat to me.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  With some respect, but Snapchat still keeps everything, right? It might disappear, but it's on their server somewhere.

• 6:41Jen Cohen?

  That's right.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Right. Same with Instagram and vanish mode or whatever.

• 6:44Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Or the other ones, right? Telegram. You can set it to delete. So the other people don't see it, but you know, if there's a subpoena because you were doing some business deal and somebody wants to get those records, it's still possible to get them.

• 6:56Jen Cohen?

  Oh, wow. Okay. So go back to your schedule. So you wake up at six o'clock, you do your emails.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Taking a nap if I'm tired.

• 7:01Jen Cohen?

  How long is the email part? Like a half an hour, an hour?

• 7:03Speaker 02

  No, an hour and a half, two hours.

• 7:05Jen Cohen?

  Oh, my gosh. Okay.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  So that's from like six to eight PM, right?

• 7:09Jen Cohen?

  In bed, you're doing it.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, just laying in bed, whatever.

• 7:11Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  And then go get my list of cookies.

• 7:14Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Some water.

• 7:16Jen Cohen?

  How about coffee? Do you drink coffee?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  No, I'm not a coffee drinker. No.

• 7:18Jen Cohen?

  Tea?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Sometimes I'll drink tea, but usually just water. And then if I have anything to do, then I'll just go do it. If it's Monday, Wednesday or Friday, I try to set time to go play basketball. Then back about two PM and back to my email and, and no matter where I'm at, if I'm eating whatever, I'm always doing my email.

• 7:37Jen Cohen?

  Always.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:38Jen Cohen?

  I cannot believe how accessible and easy. It's unbelievable. If I email you, I will get it. If I don't get a response in like the five, 10 minutes, I would think, I think, oh, he's just gonna like, he doesn't care.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's probably true. Typically that's true.

• 7:51Jen Cohen?

  I was gonna say, either he just deleted my email or like something was actually wrong with you because you were so accessible, like unbelievable.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I take pride in it because, you know,

• 8:00Jen Cohen?

  You should.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Unless someone's just like being annoying or pitched me or whatever, well, then I just block them. Which is a great feature that Gmail added. You just hit block.

• 8:08Jen Cohen?

  It's a great one, actually. You're right.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  But yeah, then I'll try to respond.

• 8:12Jen Cohen?

  So then, okay, so you go back to bed. If not, then you have basketball. When did you work out? Because I thought like.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Well, so I I set my move points to try to get a thousand move points a day.

• 8:20Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  And that typically gets me to three thousand calories a day. And then I also.

• 8:24Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. What else do you eat besides the Alyssa cookies that I know you're obsessed with?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  You know, um, I've got a woman who makes me natural foods, right?

• 8:32Jen Cohen?

  So you're a vegan, right?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Um, just vegetarian.

• 8:34Jen Cohen?

  Vegetarian.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I like eggplant, so I'll put cheese on eggplant.

• 8:37Jen Cohen?

  Oh, okay.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  So my little version of eggplant Parmesan, but I use my fitness pile to track all of my, everything that I eat. So I try to keep it to two thousand to twenty two hundred calories.

• 8:46Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  And so you can never get the calories exactly right.

• 8:49Jen Cohen?

  I know.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  And the tracking is never exactly right, so.

• 8:51Jen Cohen?

  It's it's around.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's a close enough approximation approximation um that it works for me.

• 8:57Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  And it makes me, you know, keeps me good. I try to make sure that um I get enough iron because I'm vegetarian. So, you know, I'll typically at lunch or maybe after the cookies, I'll get one of these little cups of Rice Krispies.

• 9:10Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  And um that is one serving plus a little bit, a hundred forty calories, but it's got like seventy percent of the iron.

• 9:15Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  And then iron is absorbed better if you drink it, if you have it with vitamin C. So I'll drink a glass of orange juice with it.

• 9:22Jen Cohen?

  Oh, so you're doing all, so basically, when did you become a vegetarian?

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Like four years ago.

• 9:27Jen Cohen?

  Is it because of a health?

• 9:28Speaker 02

  No, not an issue, just because I wanted to feel better, you know, supposedly it reduced inflammation. I've had both my hips replaced, you know, I'm still playing basketball, so I'm gonna be sore and, you know, so it makes me feel better.

• 9:38Jen Cohen?

  Do you feel better?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's night and day.

• 9:40Jen Cohen?

  Really?

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and you know, I don't eat meat or, you know, sometimes I'll eat fish, um, like if I'm starving, I have no choice.

• 9:47Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  But typically I won't. Um, and then, you know, I won't eat fried foods and I try to avoid sweets, which is almost impossible. So my strategy is to always have a thing of Alyssa's cookies out. So when my kids have all the garbage on our um counter, then I can grab an Alyssa's.

• 10:03Jen Cohen?

  So you really are like that obsessed with these cookies because I've heard you talk about them too. Like that's how I was for like a good year about these cookies. They are that good though.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  That good, yeah.

• 10:11Jen Cohen?

  Do you eat mush, mush, whatever you want to call it?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Mush in the fridge too.

• 10:14Jen Cohen?

  You have that too. And then, okay, so let's get back to the exercise. So you do, you're an investor maybe in Rise Nation? Or you're not?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, an investor in Rise Nation. I love Rise Nation, yeah.

• 10:23Jen Cohen?

  It's a hard workout.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, you get to go your own speed, right?

• 10:26Jen Cohen?

  Right, but the versa climbers, like it's also like.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  But you know, the beauty of it, one is low impact.

• 10:31Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  You know, so you're not going to feel your joints, you're not going to hurt that at all.

• 10:35Jen Cohen?

  It's full body too.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's full body, right? Because you're moving legs and arms. But you know, when you first start, you know, in a 30 minute class, you might get a thousand steps.

• 10:43Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  And then you build it to 1500, then you build it to 2000, then 3500, then 4000, right?

• 10:48Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  And then the superstars can do more. But your cardio, like I don't get tired when I play basketball anymore.

• 10:54Jen Cohen?

  Right, because.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  You know, I can go on a Peloton bike and just crank through 30 minute class or 45 minute class and.

• 11:00Jen Cohen?

  Do you do Peloton then too?

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:01Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so you do everything. You're very like, you're very versatile.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Well, just accessibility, right? So if I'm on the road, sometimes there's not going to be a versa climb, you know, there's not going to be a Rise Nation there. So I'll do Peloton, either the treadmill or the bike. And lots of times when I'm doing the bike, you know, I try to go, if I'm just cruising, I try to hit the 180 average output or 190. And if I'm really pushing, I'll try to do 200, 210.

• 11:25Jen Cohen?

  Wow.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  And then, you know, just, you know, but you know, it's great. It's a great workout.

• 11:29Jen Cohen?

  I want to show you something. There's like a thing, have you seen the HIIT axle before?

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Uh-uh.

• 11:33Jen Cohen?

  I'm going to show this to you. You're going to love it. A lot of the athletes are using it and sports teams use it. I'll show it to you.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:38Jen Cohen?

  It's like a side thing. But so you're doing, how many times a week would you say you work out? Besides the basketball?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Six, you know, basketball's a workout.

• 11:45Jen Cohen?

  It's a huge workout.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's a workout. But so one or the other, six times a week, sometimes seven.

• 11:51Jen Cohen?

  Do you still work out at Lifetime Fitness?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:53Jen Cohen?

  You do?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Play basketball, yeah, in Dallas.

• 11:55Jen Cohen?

  That is so funny. We don't have any here in LA.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 11:57Jen Cohen?

  It's, no, and they should bring it because it's the best gym.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  It's nice, as long as they have a basketball court.

• 12:01Jen Cohen?

  It's a huge basketball and they have every piece of equipment.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, they got everything.

• 12:05Jen Cohen?

  They don't, I'm telling you, the west.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  And I take Zumba classes on Saturday morning.

• 12:08Jen Cohen?

  Do you really?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, hell yeah.

• 12:10Jen Cohen?

  Oh my God, that is so fun.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  And you know, because way back when, um, when I started, it was like three guys and 80 women. And so it's just the ultimate, yeah, just the ultimate distraction.

• 12:21Jen Cohen?

  That's actually a great, that's a great place for guys to go to meet girls.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  That's where I met my, my wife.

• 12:26Jen Cohen?

  At a Zumba class?

• 12:26Speaker 02

  No, no, no, playing basketball. Yeah.

• 12:29Jen Cohen?

  Zumba class? That is how, you've been married for what 20 years?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  20 years. Yeah.

• 12:33Jen Cohen?

  Wow. And so, okay, so let's get back to the, this is with entrepreneur. Let's ask some more entrepreneurial questions since we should probably do that. What do you, so would you say the number one, not to pivot that hard, but like, would you say the number one reason why people are failing then is because their lack of ability to work hard and to kind of dig in? What would it be?

• 12:53Speaker 02

  No, I, I'd say they're misguided and they sell themselves, they lie to themselves when they start. Right? Oh, I think this business is good. Everybody goes through that same process with a new business. You know, hey, what do you think about this idea?

• 13:06Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Then you go on Google and you look at, oh, I don't see it. It's great. Of course, no one tells you that it's not there because 50 companies have failed doing the same thing and there's not, nothing left to show that they died. But you know, then you get excited, you check with your friends and then they try to raise money.

• 13:21Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  That's what screws them up, right? Raising money is not an accomplishment. It's an obligation.

• 13:26Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  You know, if at all possible, you want to start just organically with sweat equity. Those are the best businesses because you get to, you get to retain a hundred percent of it.

• 13:35Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  You know, and there's no rush. And then the second mistake people make is they push the top line instead of the bottom line or gross margin dollars.

• 13:42Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, oh, I'm a million in sales. Like that's an accomplishment or 10 million. Where like, if you've raised funding, you have your quote unquote KPIs, right? Right. Or what is, what's the new one? QOKs or something? There's something ridiculous that, um, QKP, I don't know. They always come up with these acronyms.

• 13:58Jen Cohen?

  What is it?

• 13:59Speaker 02

  QKP, I don't know. Just the one I started seeing. And so everybody's like, oh yeah, you know, and they think it's an accomplishment if you're doing, I went from one million to five million in sales. Okay, that's somewhat great, but what matters is what's your gross margin?

• 14:14Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Because if you're in that hamster wheel where you're growing, but you need to keep on raising money to grow.

• 14:21Jen Cohen?

  Right. That's not good.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  No, if you see what's happening now, when people can't raise money, you're done. You know, and while others have said, well, you know, I've, you know, raised thirty million or fifty or a hundred million dollars, unless you have a really good reason, you know, that your relativity space and you need to raise money because you're building, you know, eighty foot tall 3D printers.

• 14:41Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Right? You're not going to do that out of your basement. But for most entrepreneurs, it's something where there, it's an arbitrage on their time.

• 14:48Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  Right? Here's, I can do this more efficiently than Jen or Mark can. So it's worth it for Jen or Mark to buy this product or service from me so that they can use their time more efficiently. So you'll pay, so, you know, effectively, I'm so efficient that my cost to do this is ten dollars. You value it at twenty-five, I sell it at eighteen, we're both happy.

• 15:09Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Right? Most people sell an arbitrage on their time. And, and, but they don't, that's basically what their product or service is, but they don't look at it that way. They look at it, say, okay, I'm creating this, you know, I'm going to open up my own training facility. Right? Because I'm a personal trainer and I have forty clients and I need a place to take them. Why not open my own? I'll get six others, or I have a beauty salon and I'll get, you know, I'll have slots for eight other

• 15:41Speaker 02

  stylists to come in and rent a spot.

• 15:42Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Right? They don't think it through that you gotta make money at this stuff, right? It's not just about top line, it's bottom line. And I think that's where most entrepreneurs make their mistake. And, you know, you get caught, and if you get caught up in growth, you can grow yourself out of business.

• 15:58Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  And most people don't realize that.

• 15:59Jen Cohen?

  That's true. I also, do you think that people, like, I feel like it's become like the sexy thing to do now. The word entrepreneur is like super hot and sexy, you know?

• 16:06Speaker 02

  I hope so, right?

• 16:07Jen Cohen?

  It's because of you, actually. Shark Tank has made it much worse.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Shark Tank has definitely, but you know, if ninety percent fail, ten percent could change the world.

• 16:13Jen Cohen?

  Yes, and look, like the cost plus, it's going to probably change the world.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I always tell entrepreneurs, you know, or when I talk to kids, I always tell them, you know, just ask yourself a question, why not me? Why can't I be the one that just changes everything? Because one of them's going to.

• 16:28Jen Cohen?

  That's true.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  And even though, you know, some might feel entitled, some might not do the work, some may be lazy and not realize how much work is involved to be an entrepreneur. That happens. You're going to find the same thing if you're a carpenter, a videographer, you know, an editor, where some people don't do the work and the great ones do.

• 16:46Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  And, you know, and, but, you know, I, this is cliche now, but I say it all the time. It doesn't matter how many times you fail. You only got to be right one time.

• 16:54Jen Cohen?

  That's the hundred. You have a lot of these like.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 16:56Jen Cohen?

  I love, I love them. Like, well, how you do anything is how you do everything.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  That one I stole.

• 17:00Jen Cohen?

  That one, I was gonna say, that one really wasn't yours. This one, hold on. I have one here that I really liked. Uh, hold on a minute. Which one was it? Cause you have so many good ones. Uh, most people don't put the, uh, uh, which one was it? Practice until you can, well, that one, I'm not.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  I stole that one. Yeah.

• 17:15Jen Cohen?

  Was that Nick Saban, actually?

• 17:17Speaker 02

  No, that's been around a long. Yeah, that's been around a long time.

• 17:19Jen Cohen?

  Oh, which one's selling? You have one on selling.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  Oh, Sales Cures All.

• 17:22Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that one's mine.

• 17:23Jen Cohen?

  That's yours? So basically what you mean is like, as long as you can, if you can sell, then that's all it really matters, right? Then you're gold.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're good.

• 17:30Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Cause no company's ever succeeded without sales.

• 17:33Jen Cohen?

  Right. You need sales, no matter what.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Otherwise you're out of business before you start.

• 17:37Jen Cohen?

  Exactly.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Sales Cures All.

• 17:38Jen Cohen?

  So does that mean that like you have to be a good salesperson as well? Yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yes. Because if it's your baby and you don't love it enough to be able to sell it or figure out how to sell it, it's awful tough.

• 17:49Jen Cohen?

  Well, look at you, right? Like you're already established and you're going on all these things promoting these companies that you're involved with. Like, most people don't have that kind of ethic to do that work ethic. They get bored. They think they're too good for it now. They don't want to do it.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  I don't do a lot of these, but.

• 18:03Jen Cohen?

  Not podcasts, but you're out there like, you know, talking about whatever.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  Whatever. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I've got a platform that most people don't have.

• 18:10Jen Cohen?

  Well, yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  But, but it brings.

• 18:11Jen Cohen?

  For sure.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  But it brings up.

• 18:13Jen Cohen?

  A few more dollars than most people.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 18:15Jen Cohen?

  That's a whole other.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  But I wasn't always in that position.

• 18:17Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  And so even, you know, back in the day when I had MicroSolutions, my first company after I got fired, like, one of the things I learned, I learned a lot from companies I got fired from. Most of them, it was like what not to do. You know, I had, um, a boss that, my boss that fired me, a guy named Michael Humeky at the software store.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  And H U M.

• 18:38Jen Cohen?

  Exactly, at the sophomore store. I love it, yeah.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Anyways, that went out of business three months later.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  You fucked up, Michael.

• 18:46Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you for doing it.

• 18:48Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  But like, he would never go on sales calls.

• 18:52Jen Cohen?

  He would never, did he? He probably thought he was too good for it.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  He was the CEO.

• 18:56Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  And I had another job, same thing. Guy named David, I forget his last name now, but he told me where to buy a suit when I was buying my suits two for $99.

• 19:05Jen Cohen?

  That's great.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  You know?

• 19:06Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  And I was, my shirts, I would wear button down shirts, but I bought them at this place called The Clothes Horse, which was all resale. So like, I went five years before I bought my first business shirt that someone hadn't worn before.

• 19:21Jen Cohen?

  Oh, really?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:22Jen Cohen?

  Wow.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  But I learned, you know, you gotta sell.

• 19:26Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Because the, in my experiences, the CEOs, the owners, the founders, that didn't sell, they all failed.

• 19:32Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  With no exceptions, 100% of them failed. And, you know, when you're just starting and it's just you, who else is going to sell?

• 19:40Jen Cohen?

  Nobody.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  And that's the other, you know, and that leads to another mistake entrepreneurs make. They, they try to hit hiring home runs, right? So when, the minute they hit a roadblock, I'll just hire, you know, I'll hire a new marketing person, right? Or I'll hire a new head of sales. Hope, thinking that, oh, this person's amazing. No one's ever hired somebody and said, they suck really bad.

• 20:01Jen Cohen?

  Of course.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Right? Oh, I found the most amazing person. Why'd they leave their last five jobs? Oh, they were amazing, but, right?

• 20:08Jen Cohen?

  That's such a good point. See, that's why, I love how your brain works. It's like exactly, it's so true, it's so practical and common sense.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  It's pragmatic, yeah, right?

• 20:16Jen Cohen?

  It's common sense, but common sense isn't so common.