Catherine Paiz: My Husband Cheated with 20 Women

Join Alex in the studio for an exclusive interview with Catherine Paiz. Catherine finally addresses all of the cheating rumors, reveals why The ACE Family ultimately fell apart, and opens up about where she and Austin stand today. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:43Alex Cooper?

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• 1:28Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

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• 2:55Alex Cooper?

  You want your home to feel cozy and you want it to feel like you. And thanks to features like stain resistant performance fabric, even the messiest memories will be easy to clean. So, visit your local store or head to ashley.com to find your style. Daddy gang, welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy. Today, I am sitting down with Catherine Pies. If you are a fan of the Ace family, then you already know exactly what we're about to get into. But for those of you who may not be as familiar with today's guest, I'm going to catch you up, okay? Catherine and her ex-husband, Austin McBroom, started the Ace Family YouTube channel in 2016.

• 3:38Alex Cooper?

  They were essentially the first family vloggers to ever do it. And people were so obsessed with them. To this day, they still have 18 million subscribers, okay? So, for years, everyone watched Catherine and Austin's relationship play out online. We watched them get engaged, have kids, move into new homes, and they documented every aspect of their lives on YouTube. Now, throughout their relationship, there was a lot of controversy. There was financial turmoil and there were tons and tons of cheating allegations. But to the public, they always put up a united front until they suddenly stopped posting

• 4:21Alex Cooper?

  and revealed that they were getting a divorce. For the past about two years, they have been

• 4:29Alex Cooper?

  Basically not really addressing anything and there are so many unanswered questions. How often was Austin actually cheating? Was Katherine aware the entire time? What was going on with their finances? And what is the truth behind the drug allegations? So Daddy Gang, I am excited to give Katherine the opportunity to speak on all of it today in long form for the first time. Let's get into it.

• 4:59Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 5:07Alex Cooper?

  Katherine Pies, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:11Alex Cooper?

  Okay, we've got a lot to talk about, obviously. You and your ex-husband, Austin McBroom, started the Ace Family, which quickly became quite literally the biggest family YouTube channel ever to exist. And then suddenly you guys went dark. And I think everyone has a lot of questions, which we're going to get into. But first, I just want to know, how are you doing?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  I'm doing good. I feel like I'm in a new place in my life and I'm just so excited just to like be free with myself and just be authentic. Not that I wasn't authentic before, I just feel like I'm at just a new stage in my life.

• 5:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. You and Austin's last video together was almost two years ago. I know.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  I didn't even know that.

• 6:04Alex Cooper?

  Almost two years ago.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Okay, that's crazy.

• 6:06Alex Cooper?

  Which is crazy because I feel like for so long, people watched you every single day. Like you were on our screens for so long. So to go for two years, it's been a long time. Why are you ready to talk about all of this now?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I think for me, it's like I was, I felt silenced for so long. And it wasn't like someone was silencing me, I was silencing myself. And I think that for all those years of just not being able to just speak freely and just like really sit with myself.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  It was really hard, Alex. It was really hard. And I think that now I'm just so healed from all of my experiences, not just my relationship, all of the traumas and all the experiences that I faced early on in my life. I've just healed so much through all of them, truly, like actually truly. And I just feel so, um,

• 7:00Speaker 01

  alive. I feel like I can really just be myself and it's okay.

• 7:04Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  You know, it's, it's, it's okay to be me and sit with myself. And I wrote a book.

• 7:12Alex Cooper?

  Yes, you did.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  I wrote a book about, um, you know, some of the experiences that I had early in my life, um, into my, you know, into my adulthood. And I think through my healing and through writing of this book, I really just like came back to myself.

• 7:28Alex Cooper?

  That's really beautiful because I think so many people always say like, why now to people? And I actually was interested to know, like, why now? And I can feel your energy. And like, I think a lot of people who have been your fan for so long have wanted you to get to this point in your life. But I do know a lot of it is a little messy because I just obviously saw some chapters got released of your memoir. And then you have your ex-husband, Austin, coming forward and he's already commentating on this is a lie, this isn't truthful, this is exaggerated. How did you feel when you saw him kind of publicly coming out and trying to put down essentially this book?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like that's already an indicator of why I never expressed myself, you know, through all those allegations of cheating and fidelity and all those things. It's like, I was so afraid to speak up. I was so afraid to say, I'm an idiot, like, I just didn't see it, you know? Or I was so afraid to say, you know, I'm trying to hold the very little piece that we have in our family. I'm trying to keep that together. I'm trying to shelter the, the very little piece that we have, you know? And, um, for me, it was like, You know, I I'm just, I'm embarrassed. I don't know what's true or not. There are so many

• 8:52Speaker 01

  things that aren't true. It's really hard to like differentiate what is true, what isn't. Um, until I really found out.

• 9:00Alex Cooper?

  Okay, we're gonna go all the way back because I feel like we know you as the Ace family. We know you as Catherine, a part of the Ace family. But I think it's important, and you talk about this in your book. I want to just lightly talk about your life before all of this. Describe like, what was your experience growing up in your family dynamic?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, uh, my mom was born in Nicaragua. My dad is Panamanian. They met in Panama. Uh, they were teenagers when they met. And, um, you know, they had a lot of hardship. Um, they had a very toxic relationship, just like any young couple that is new to a country, new language, new everything. They didn't have family, they didn't have friends. And so the first half of my childhood, my dad was a single dad. Um, my mom, uh, took herself out of that toxic relationship and moved to Florida. And so, um, you know, I I knew she did that for the best of, for the best of the family. And, um, it's interesting

• 10:04Speaker 01

  because I'm like, I was such a, I had such an awareness even as a child that I like knew, like, she's doing the right thing. You know what I mean? Like, I knew that as a child. And I'm like, I know my mom is doing this for us, you know, for the bigger picture. Um, my parents didn't have much money, you know, really, nothing. Um, and I had this really weird relationship with money. Like, I remember thinking like, you know, my mom would say things like, we don't have the money for that, or we can't do that, or, you know? And I remember looking at her and thinking, I'm gonna make a lot of money one day, so that I can do all the things that I want to do, and I can support you, and I can support my family. And it was like this drive that I had inside of me.

• 10:48Alex Cooper?

  So many adults, you get to that place where you're like, what was lacking in your childhood that then you were craving? Because whether you had friends that had it. Or you were told you couldn't have it, then it's almost like that goal in your head, which then we'll get to, because then you eventually got all of that. And sometimes it doesn't mean that that is the thing that brings you happiness. But when you're young and you have this vision,

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 11:12Alex Cooper?

  It's like you're gonna go for it no matter what.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:14Alex Cooper?

  I'm interested, though, hearing you talk about your parents having a toxic relationship. Like, how did their marriage impact you at a young age of like how you viewed love?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, hugely. Oh, my God, that's such a good question. You're so good at this.

• 11:29Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Stop. Um, okay, so I feel like when my marriage was going downhill, we didn't have good communication. That's one thing I, you know, I take full accountability is I had the worst communication. Um, and I'm still working on it today. I think I've gotten a lot better. But, um, when I look at my parents, I thought, I don't want to be another couple that doesn't make it, you know? I want to, I want to be, I want to have that traditional love. You say your I do's and you're in there for, you know, till death do us part. That was like kind of my, the way that I saw it, you know?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Um, also having children, you know, you want your children to grow up with both their parents. And that was my dream. It's like, I want to be able to have that family. And when we had it, you know what I mean? And, and I thought, oh, my gosh. Like, I remember one morning, I remember thinking like, did I make it? Like, looking around, I remember, did I make it? And I was like, well, why do I feel so empty?

• 12:53Alex Cooper?

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• 13:38Alex Cooper?

  SoFi, get your money right. This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile. Daddy gang, there are honestly so many reasons to just choose T-Mobile. They've got T-Mobile Tuesdays perks, tons of freebies, travel benefits like hotel and rental car savings. They make your phone plan feel like it's actually giving you something back instead of just being another bill that you have to pay every single month. And if you're a student, T-Mobile has student perks plans designed specifically for you. I remember being in college and constantly literally just looking for ways to save money, understandably. And so these are the kind of perks I would have absolutely taken advantage of.

• 14:23Alex Cooper?

  Students can get things like a $5 movie ticket every month, exclusive access to concerts, okay? And even streaming benefits, so you can always have a reality TV binge night with your girls. And when you're already paying for your phone every month, getting all of these extra benefits on top of it, just, it makes sense, right? For all the reasons to choose T-Mobile, find yours at tmobile.com/membership. Qualifying plan required. Visit tmobile.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. Let me tell you something, when I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry.

• 15:05Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's. Dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at stouffer's.com. Let's talk about Austin. Can you tell me how you guys met? Like, how did that all go down?

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I moved to Los Angeles. I had this fuel to move to Los Angeles. I was super excited and I bought a one-way ticket. My friend invited me to an all-white attire party. And I walked in and I saw Austin from across the room. Austin McBroom from across the room. And I looked at him and I thought, I don't know why, but I feel like I know him. So interesting. And she introduced us and we shook hands and that was it. And then I took Uber home and I didn't talk to him. So about a month later, he had messaged me on, I think, like Twitter or something. He was like, hey, I'd like to send you something. And I didn't respond, so a month went by.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  And then he messaged me again and he was like, hey, I'd like to take you to dinner. And I almost didn't go. I was like, I don't know why, but something's telling me to go. But I'm just like, I don't know, I don't know. And so I'll never forget that morning, he was like so, oh, he goes, do you like sushi?

• 16:43Speaker 01

  And I said, no. He's like, okay, well, me neither, but I got us a reservation at Nobu Malibu. And I said, okay, that's nice. Like, in my head, I'd never been there before, so I'll go. So we go and we're sitting across from each other. You know, we're by the ocean and we're talking. He was asking me a lot of questions about me. I thought that was really nice, you know? He's a young college student. It was like he was going into senior year of college, playing D1 basketball. And he's talking and all of a sudden, like, I just don't hear anything. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. That is a person that I'm gonna have children with and that is a person that I'm going to marry. And I knew it in that moment. Like, nothing could tell me otherwise.

• 17:23Alex Cooper?

  What was it about him?

• 17:25Speaker 01

  It was just a feeling. It was just this feeling. It's like this inner knowing. And... I thought, I just know it's him.

• 17:34Alex Cooper?

  Okay. You write about in the book that the first time you have your first kiss is the same day that you both also say, I love you.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 17:43Alex Cooper?

  Were you nervous at how fast it was moving?

• 17:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:47Alex Cooper?

  No. Why?

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Because it was just meant to be. I saw this thing recently. Um, I don't, I don't know who said this. I'll, I'll find out and let everyone know. But, um, she said, when you meet the one, or when you meet someone that you're meant to be, be with, you skip the dating phase. So it's like, we just went from like, meeting each other to being like, we're married, kind of thing. You know what I mean?

• 18:08Alex Cooper?

  Who said, I love you first?

• 18:10Speaker 01

  He said it first.

• 18:11Alex Cooper?

  Did you say it back immediately?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Immediately.

• 18:13Alex Cooper?

  And so it didn't freak you out at all? You didn't feel like it was like love bombing at all? You were just like, this is, this is it?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  This is it.

• 18:20Alex Cooper?

  If you had to pinpoint it back then, what do you think was different about Austin compared to all the other guys that you had dated?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Well, one, he doesn't care what anybody thinks. And I think, I find that so attractive. And I feel like that's like my inner self is like, I don't give a shit with anyone thinks. But he was like, that person for us and our dynamic, you know, taught me a lot. Um, I also think, you know, he's very, um, he's just very motivated. He's a very motivated person. Um, and I just, I was just so attracted to the fact that he was so free with himself. And I'd never met anyone like that. Actually, the only person that I know close to him is my brother. And I always said, oh my God, you and my brother need to meet because you guys are so much alike.

• 19:07Alex Cooper?

  How soon into your relationship did you get pregnant?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Like two months. It was so quick.

• 19:12Alex Cooper?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  It was so quick.

• 19:14Alex Cooper?

  What was your reaction? What was Austin's reaction?

• 19:17Speaker 01

  So it's interesting because the day before we found out, we were at a restaurant and his friend just had a baby. So he showed me the newborn photos. And I was looking down. I was like, oh my gosh, like, would you, would you want to start a family one day? He's like, yeah, I, I like, I would love to have kids one day. He's like, you know, maybe in the future, you know? And he goes like, we'll start a family one day. And I was like, I like, I know, like, I feel it, you know? I feel, I feel a family for us. Just, I just knew it. Um, but I didn't know I was pregnant already.

• 19:46Alex Cooper?

  How did you tell him?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  He was right there in the room. I, I, he was in the room. He was sitting on his belly, you know, scrolling on his phone. And I, I, I thought, you know, I feel, feel nauseous, you know? I feel kind of sick. And he thought, oh, maybe we should take a pregnancy test. And I'm thinking like, Um, nothing's gonna happen. And I took the test and immediately I stood up. I didn't even think about it. I just stood up, hey, and then I threw the, threw the stick at him by like, close to him on the bed. And he's looking at, he's like, I'm like, yeah, I think we're pregnant. And he's, and it was, the lines were very faint. So we couldn't tell for sure. But just his reaction.

• 20:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And just the way I slept, I slept so good that that night I didn't think about it. I'm thinking we're good, no matter what.

• 20:28Alex Cooper?

  You started this YouTube channel, obviously shortly after that she was born. How did you guys decide to do this?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  So when he was um, in college for that last year, um, I decided to move in with him. I was pregnant for that whole year. And he had a roommate, like someone that was kind of there just to help with that last year of college. Because he was playing, you know, D one basketball and he was still going to school. And then, you know, I was pregnant. And so he was kind of just there to like, keep tabs and make sure that everything was good. And he was the one that said, hey, guys, like, you guys should really start a YouTube channel. And he's like, you know, your videos are going viral on Facebook and people are making money off of them. And I'm thinking like, what? Cause we would make like cute little homemade videos, you know, of him talking to my belly. Or just us being funny and goofy or whatever. And he's like, people are taking your videos and monetizing your videos.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Why don't you guys make your own videos? And I thought, can we do that? You can make money off your videos. I'm like, what? Like, that's so crazy. And um, at the time, you know, his dreams were to play in the NBA. And that summer, um, you know, he, he, he got with the wrong agent and he did a couple of tryouts. You know, one with the Lakers, one with the Knicks, um, and just it didn't work out. And we thought, what are we gonna do? Like, either you go play overseas, uh, in Greece or something. We move the bait, we go the whole, as a family. And, and but nothing is, you know, in set in stone. Like, we don't know what that looks like.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  And so then that's when we were like, let's start YouTube.

• 22:02Alex Cooper?

  Back in the beginning, once Elle was born, whose decision was it to make her a part of the content?

• 22:09Speaker 01

  It just came naturally. Yeah, because I didn't film my birth with Elle. It was like, you know, we just private, you know, just, I mean, we filmed on our phone, you know, we weren't making a vlog. And I think like, it just made sense because we are so hands on with our child and we, I might, I was not gonna get a nanny. I'm like, I'm gonna raise my daughter, you know, I'm, I'm finally have my daughter here, you know? And I thought, oh, we can make content with, with our daughter, you know, we can just naturally, organically share our journey.

• 22:40Alex Cooper?

  Did you have any hesitations in the beginning or later on about putting your kids on camera?

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Never. And you know why, Alex?

• 22:50Alex Cooper?

  Why?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Because back in the day, it was really new, like YouTube. It's been a thing for a while, but we were really like that, like,

• 23:02Speaker 01

  I hate to say the word, but I feel like we kind of pioneered that like family vlogging experience. You know what I mean?

• 23:10Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  It's like, we were the first to do it at that magnitude in that way. And it was like, I, it, it was like, when this monster of like, social media was starting, you know? Sometimes I think back, I'm like, oh my God, am I part of that, this craziness that's going on now in the world, you know?

• 23:29Alex Cooper?

  Cause obviously, I'm sure you've seen it, but like, there are people that accuse you and Austin of exploiting your kids. Like, what do you say to that?

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just think that like, when we first started, it was so pure. It was like pure intentions. It was like, obviously we want to make a living, you know? Like, anyone wants to make a living, you gotta work. But it was more like, we're just being present with our family, our daughter. And it's interesting because we would make these elaborate videos. And we found out very early on that people enjoyed our family vlogs, our simple family vlogs, sitting on the floor. Those would get more views than our like, big elaborated videos we would spend money on and doing. So it was just like, well, people just want to see us. They just relate to us. Maybe they see themselves in us.

• 24:14Alex Cooper?

  So much of your success is through your children? Like, did you guys have a big conversation about setting them up with money and like, putting money away for them? Or was it more just like, it's all the families?

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, they have their separate bank account. Um, actually, very early on in my career, I think two thousand seventeen when L was about a year old, we got her a bank account, you know? Um, yeah, I think that those were the conversations and things we were having.

• 24:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Um, but in terms of like exploitation and stuff like that never crossed our mind. That was like, like, I don't, I, I just feel like

• 24:51Speaker 01

  we were just the beginning of something new.

• 24:54Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel about it now?

• 24:57Speaker 01

  You know, we're in the age of technology and you know, it's like, there's no right or wrong, I don't think. Like, I think that like if people choose to keep their private, certain private things away from social media, that's beautiful. And I think that if some people choose to do it the opposite way, I think that that's beautiful too. I think that everything's meant to be the way that it's meant to be.

• 25:20Alex Cooper?

  Once you guys kind of started really becoming yourselves and people know, knew the Ace family, like on a good month, can I ask, like, how much were you guys making?

• 25:33Speaker 01

  So there was a period we were making like, we were making seven, seven figures a month. Um, to me, it, it was like, I was numb to it. Truly, like, it didn't make, it was just like, it didn't make any sense. I was going through this phase in my life where I just felt so disattached. And now I look back and think, oh, my God, I would have done so much with that. I would have invested, I would have bought my mom a house, my dad a house, I would have done this, this and that. And it's like, we, we just didn't have the right mentors, we didn't have the right tools, you know? We didn't have, we had a lot of yes men around us and we just made really bad business decisions along the way.

• 26:14Alex Cooper?

  Once you guys started filming everything all the time, when did it start to feel like you weren't just filming parts of your life, but you were living?

• 26:27Alex Cooper?

  To film and get content. Like, when do you think that switch happens? Because I feel like for a lot of creators,

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:34Alex Cooper?

  It happens.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Yeah, there is moments where I'm like, because you know, like, big reveals and stuff, like, people want to watch those. That's a great clickbait. And so, um, you know, it was genuine. For a long time, it was like, okay, like, he's genuinely surprising. He's genuinely proposing to me. Like, it was like, wow, like, this is so crazy that we can capture such a big, milesome, big moment. And we can actually look back on it, too, like, it's filmed. Um, but then also, having so many eyes on you, I didn't know back in the day, back in the time, now I know. But I didn't know that I was not protecting myself. But the moment that I realized where I don't know if this is real or not real, I don't know.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Um,

• 27:23Speaker 01

  that must have happened, genuinely, there was like a big moment for me. It was when my second daughter was born. Um, I just felt this disconnection. And it was like, I actually don't want to film this, but like, I know that people are waiting for it because they've invested so much. And there was this fine line of like, do I put my foot down and just like, live in the moment? Or do I also, so, and then he was holding the camera, so it made it easier. But then it was like, is he here, though? Is he present? So that that was like a big moment for me.

• 28:03Alex Cooper?

  And did you end up releasing a video?

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:07Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel about it?

• 28:09Speaker 01

  I was just like really numb and empty at the time. Yeah.

• 28:13Alex Cooper?

  Did you ever find that you started to not be clear if Austin was doing romantic gestures for you? Because it was, he was filming it, so it would look good for you guys as a couple? Or were you like, wait, is he actually doing this romantic gesture? And he just happens to be filming?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, totally. Yeah, there was moments where I'm thinking like, I don't know, like, you really surprised me, you know, or it's like, and then it was like, me kind of having to follow with that, like, surprise. And then I'm like, I feel like I'm a clown in a circus. You know what I mean?

• 28:48Alex Cooper?

  Right. Because you couldn't just naturally be like, Like if if my husband surprises me, of course, I'm going to be surprised. But then you kind of like chill for a second after me. Wait, when did you think of this? But you have to, you see the camera. So then it's like, keep it going. Call the kids down, get everyone around. Let's run to the backyard. And it's like you're

• 29:06Speaker 01

  It's a production.

• 29:07Alex Cooper?

  A production.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:08Alex Cooper?

  And it's theatrical.

• 29:11Alex Cooper?

  Which feels like you probably were on this hamster wheel where it's like you can't get off this ride almost. And you, did you and Austin ever have a conversation being like, let's set boundaries of like what we should keep private and what we shouldn't?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  There might have been moments where we kind of talked about, but to be honest with you, not really like I just, we didn't have that communication within ourselves. Yeah.

• 29:37Alex Cooper?

  In the book, you write that Austin made a lot of financial decisions without asking you and that it was so extreme, you would check your bank accounts and see six figures missing. Where was all the money going?

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was moments where, you know, I'd see some money coming out and it was, you know, to pay this, pay that. And it was like, I didn't feel like I was having that like wife, like that partner, that husband and wife conversation about our finances. And it would be heartbreaking to look at the bank because I was very well aware of what was in there. And it's like, where did, where did that go? Like what, what's happening? Or like, um, one thing as well, it's like little things that, you know, things that I would never think to pay for, like, um, like a private jet, for instance, you know? That personally for me wasn't something I would ever do. Like if I had never met him, I would have never been on a private jet today. I'm like, probably never, you know?

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Because I'm thinking like, I'll just take a regular flight. But, um, little moments like that.

• 30:38Alex Cooper?

  But it seems, which makes me sad for you because I feel like that unfortunately is a lot of people's experience where you're like, I didn't feel like it was a partnership when it came to finances. And yet you were 50 50 and making all this money. Like, did you ever go to him and be like, Austin, I feel a little bit in the dark here, like we need to have

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 30:59Alex Cooper?

  And how did he react when you would bring that up?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, I'm sorry, you know, I didn't want you to worry and I don't know. I just feel like, you know?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  I I get it, but it's like, that's not what a marriage is about. A marriage is about talking about these very deep things that really affect like our children and our future and like, you know, when you make certain investments, the goal is to make at least make your money back, you know? And so, um, that was really stressful for me. That really caused a lot of stress and strain in our relationship.

• 31:34Alex Cooper?

  That's what I was wondering, because I know you write a lot about the home foreclosure that you guys went through, which was so public. And so many people were talking about it of like, are they broke? What's happening? And you put a lot of the detail beautifully in the book, but like, overall, when you look back at that moment in your life, what did losing that house represent to you?

• 31:58Speaker 01

  So, leading up to that moment, um, we, I felt like there was a lot of things that I was losing control over, right? My family, my relationship, um, our career, everything, right? There was a lot of narratives and things that were being said and I, and you know, I kept, I was really strong and I was like, you know, I'm gonna be strong and you know, um, I'm gonna keep fighting and we have our home, you know, we have our home, our kids are happy, they're healthy, we're healthy, everything's fine. And so one day I wake up and I get a phone call. It's my father-in-law, he said, Kath, and the house is under foreclosure, it's all over the news. I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean? He goes, well, your loan ended and no one's gonna, it's a jumbo loan, no one's gonna accept you, you don't have the certificate of occupancy.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  But I'm like, but I've been paying the mortgage every month for three years, everything, we, what do I need to do? What do I need to pay? I'll, I'll, I'll save it. What, what do we need? There's nothing you can do, it's under foreclosure, it's gone. You have thirty days to move out.

• 32:54Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was heartbreaking. I, I cried a notion. And it's crazy because out of all the things that were happening in that era, that was the thing that really broke me. Because I was looking for a home my whole life. It's like I just wanted to feel like I'm at home.

• 33:13Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain to me, because I'm sure people are really confused and want a little bit of clarity on like, there was so much going on behind the scenes, obviously, that people didn't know, like, what was it really like between you and Austin when the cameras were off?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  When the cameras were off, I wouldn't say that there was much of a change. I think if anything, at least I can speak for myself, I feel like I was pretending. You know what I mean? It's like, I feel like I was just so disconnected from myself, not like everything around me, but like within myself, you know? And I was like, all of this happened so fast. Like, I gave birth, we started YouTube channel, it grows overnight. I'm a new mother, I'm newly married. Um, there's all these, these eyes on us. Um, there's so many people that want things from, things from us and, you know, it just, it was just a lot of things.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  And so when the cameras were off, it was more like, I'm just gonna sit here and breastfeed my baby and just like scroll on my phone. Like, I never went out, I never hung out with my friends, I hardly saw my family. I was in a really dark place.

• 34:28Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about the cheating allegations. So, over the years, there were so many different allegations of Austin cheating on you. And it was a pretty constant conversation online for a couple of years. At first, how much attention were you giving to these rumors? And did you even believe them when it first started?

• 34:49Speaker 01

  When it first started, my heart sank. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I remember like sitting with my, oh my gosh, like, is this gonna happen? You know? And then it was like, oh, well, I see, I'm with him every day. Like, we're co-parenting, we're married, we're business partners. I mean, when is he gonna have time? But it's really interesting. I was telling my mom the other day, I remember when I was 16 years old and I walked into a, a room where the, the TV was on and there was, it was that talk show, uh, Tyra Banks. And there was a lady who said, if a man has enough time to go into the bathroom, he has enough time to cheat. And it just stuck with me. And I thought,

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Does he have enough time to cheat on me? You know what I mean? Um, and so that was kind of like the beginning. It's like, I don't know what's true or not. And you know what? I'd even have moments where we'd be laying in bed, you know, just falling asleep and I'd get a text from a random number. Your husband is out at a party with me, da, da, da. And I'm thinking like, he's right over here. So some, there's moments I didn't know what to believe. There's some things that are true. There's some things that are distorted. There's some things that are not true. So it was really hard to tell.

• 35:55Alex Cooper?

  And in those moments, did you? Cause I know you're kind of saying your communication wasn't great. When the allegations started, did you bring it up to him at all? Or was that another thing that you guys kind of were like?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, no, I brought it up.

• 36:07Alex Cooper?

  And what was his response in the beginning?

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, that comes with a territory and let's not respond because we're just going to add fuel to the fire and it's not true. I'm like, okay, you know, and.

• 36:18Alex Cooper?

  And you trusted him?

• 36:20Speaker 01

  I did, yeah, I really trusted him.

• 36:23Alex Cooper?

  When you look back at the very beginning, like the very beginning allegations, do you believe even then he was cheating?

• 36:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 36:31Alex Cooper?

  Can you take me to the moment where you found out about? He was cheating and then we'll dial it back to like all the others. But the first big moment, you were like, oh shit, he's cheating. Where were you? What happened?

• 36:59Alex Cooper?

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• 38:24Alex Cooper?

  This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. The first big moment, you're like, oh shit, he's cheating. Where were you? What happened?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there was a couple, there's like quite a few moments.

• 38:38Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  There was a couple of moments where I was like, I'm heartbroken. Like, um.

• 38:45Alex Cooper?

  First one, let's go to the first.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  So, you know, I don't remember exactly the first, first moment because I feel like there's just so many. But, um, there was this one moment. I had just had my daughter, my second daughter, she was about six months old or something. And he was like, hey, I have to go to Miami for a meeting and, and I go, please. And I'm, you know, I'm the type of partner where I love for my partner to feel free. Like, I trust you. Go, you want to go on a trip? You want to go on a boys' trip? Whatever you want to do, go. Like, that's just my personality. Now I look back, I'm thinking, I should change, should change some things up a little bit and care a little bit more.

• 39:23Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  But at the time, I just had a baby. I was tired, I was filming every day, had another baby, taking care, changing diapers, breastfeeding, breastfeed all my kids five years straight. So, um, super exhausted, super tired, you know? And so he said, I want to go to Miami. And I said, you know, you go, you go on your trip. And I remember calling my mom and my mom saying, I would never let my husband leave when my baby's just a couple of months old. Like, you're, I don't know, you're different. I'm thinking, oh, well, I don't know. I was like, you know, I think he deserves it. He's been working so hard. He edits, people don't realize, he edited every single video on our channel. We didn't have an editor. So I thought, you know, he deserves to go out. Like, it's okay. He wants to go on a business trip, whatever. I remember that business trip, like it was yesterday, that business trip.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  He called me quite a few times where I felt like, you're calling me a little too much. Like, I was just like, I don't know, like, it's okay, go have fun, you know? And he pocket dialed me accidentally and I heard women in the back, a couple of women, and I thought, okay, well, okay, well, I guess my husband's hanging out with women. Yeah. I'm thinking, whatever, hung up the phone, continued my day.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  A couple of months go by and this, uh, blonde male makeup artist makes this video on YouTube, talking about my husband and how he was in Miami and there was this group of people and there was all these girls and there was this bow and all these, and to be honest with you, till this day, I never watched the video. But I have gotten that like information from some good friends who watched it for me and were able to like, process it for me and help me process it. And I was pregnant in that moment. And I had to, I had to listen to that and I, nobody knew I was pregnant. I was having my son. And I, and I remember bawling and thinking, is this true?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  And even if it's not true, why are people saying this? This is like so detailed and like, and I believe, you know, I didn't believe the horrors, but

• 41:25Speaker 01

  it was like,

• 41:27Speaker 01

  am I?

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Am I just being stupid right now? Like, am I just really not sitting with this? Or am I, do I vindicate him? Do I vindicate our family? And that's what I did. And I think back at my old self, I think, oh, poor girl. Like, I wish I could hug her today. Like, she was just going through so much and she, the old version of myself just wanted to protect that little piece we had in the family, you know? And I would see it in his eyes and I'm thinking like,

• 42:03Speaker 01

  I don't know, like, something's not right. But I'm gonna have a baby and I have to focus on the baby right now. So I wasn't sure, right? And that was a big moment for me because there was some things that were being said that just, it just made a lot of sense. It was all adding up, you know what I mean?

• 42:20Alex Cooper?

  And did you confront him?

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, but not in a way where I was like, it was more like, how do we fix this? Because this is not true. And he's like, yeah, that's not true. Da-da-da, that's, you know, whatever. This guy and he's making things up and oh, my God, he's trying to extort me and this and that. And, you know, some of those things were true, some of them weren't. And I thought, how do we fix it? And I was, I was just lying to myself. I knew deep inside, something didn't feel right.

• 42:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  But then a couple of months later, I was, we were filming this thing called Vlogmas on YouTube. People film every day for the month of December. And we had done it, you know, it was like a common thing.

• 43:04Alex Cooper?

  I remember.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  We would do every winter. And this was in December. And I was, you know, at that point, I was about three months pregnant with my son. I didn't know I was having a boy yet. So I just, you know, I was pregnant, I wore baggy shirts and like, you know, like I'd wear bigger shirts because I didn't want anyone to know yet. I wanted to keep it to myself, especially because there was all this like negativity going around about him.

• 43:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  So I'm like, I'm just gonna keep this to myself. And then there is this moment that changed everything for me. Um, we, oh, I had a dream. I have a lot of dreams. Very symbolic. I'm sure you do too.

• 43:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  I had a dream where I was walking into my bedroom, the bedroom I was sleeping in. We had this massive, long, ten-foot bed. I'm walking into the room and there's this, he's sitting in the bed and there's a woman with this beautiful blonde hair. I just see the back of her and she turns around and she's this demon. And I woke up from that nightmare and I was, I was crying. I was like, oh my God, that was the worst nightmare I've ever had. Like, I literally, there was a demon on my bed.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  And the whole day felt eerie. It was so eerie. It was so weird and I didn't tell anybody and I was just like, that's so weird. Couple of hours later, we start filming and we go to um, this um, studio to get my daughter's first haircut. She was a year old, just getting her first haircut. And he, you know, um, our assistant, um, who was Austin's friend from back in the day was there. It was Austin and myself and our daughter. And we walked in, you know, there were some fans and they were like, can we take a picture? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, like, let's finish filming, you're doing this and we'll take the photo. So they're all waiting there and, you know, everyone in the salon knows who we are and stuff. So it was just, you know, a regular moment where they're filming.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  He's filming um, our daughter's first haircut and I'm kind of like, I'm taking photos for myself from my phone, you know, like, oh my gosh, like, taking the photo and then like a movie, my camera, I mean, my uh, phone dies. It just goes black. And I look at him without a thought and I go, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme your phone, gimme your phone, let me take a photo. Cause you know, we're gonna miss the moment, she's getting her first haircut. As soon as my hand grabs that phone, mind you, I had never, never looked in his phone. Ever, ever, never. I grabbed the phone and it felt kind of weird because I'm like holding his phone, right? Like, it just felt odd because I knew maybe there had, maybe things he was hiding. I didn't want to look.

• 45:34Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  As soon, Alex, as soon as I grabbed the phone.

• 45:37Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Like out of a movie, this long text comes through, if you really love your wife, you wouldn't be da-da-da-da-da. And I, I like, my, my brain scanned it, but I wasn't able to read it fully. But in that moment, my heart drops. I'm pregnant. There's people watching us, the camera's on. It felt like, it, it just felt surreal. The assistant looks, notices, looks at him, he grabs the phone from me and instantly deletes the message. And I thought, oh my gosh, it's true.

• 46:11Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was calm, very calm. And we've, you know, we paid and we finished. I, I wasn't in my body anymore. My like, I wasn't on earth anymore. We walk out of the um store or the salon and I said, Austin, who was that?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  And he's like, it's nobody, it's, it's nothing. Please tell me who that was. I saw the text. And I, I kept replaying what I could have done. Should I ran to the bathroom, like, should I like take like, I'm like, what should I have done?

• 46:46Alex Cooper?

  I like tackle him and read it.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  No, like, I was like, I didn't get to fully read it.

• 46:51Alex Cooper?

  But you saw enough that it said, if you really love

• 46:54Speaker 01

  It was an emotional, I, I saw enough to know instantly, this is an emotional relationship he's having with somebody. This is a woman that is having a relationship with my husband. And we got in the car and you know, then my voice got a little, who was that? Oh, like, lower your voice, the kids. And I'm like, okay, and I'm calming myself, the kids are in the car, let's like, I mean, it's have grace, right? Stay strong, poised. Get home. We get home blacked out. I was like yelling, screaming, tell me, please, please just tell me who that was, please, just I feel so stupid, just tell me, I'm having a baby, please just tell me. And I ran out of the house.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  I got in my car and I just started driving and I didn't know where I was driving, just driving. Crying in ocean, bawling, I couldn't even see where I was driving and I thought I need to park somewhere, so I went to a park. Parked at the park, put my hands on the wheel and I said, God, if you hear me, please tell me what to do. And in that moment, it's so interesting because um

• 48:00Speaker 01

  I knew that one day I'd have a son and that I would name him Steel. There was like this inner knowing. And when I had that conversation with God and I was really just like, just like a point of just, I'm surrendering. Just tell me what to do. And I heard this voice and it was like, you are having your son. There's a reason you named him Steel. You have to stay strong for this whole pregnancy. And just don't make any impulsive decisions. Just keep going. Just keep this in the back of your mind. It's gonna, it's, it's gonna live there and it's gonna, it's gonna, you're gonna see, everything's gonna make sense, but don't make any big decisions right now. And I went home and I acted like nothing.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Acted like nothing. I was, you know, I was, I hadn't talked to him for a couple of days. I think that was the longest we'd ever gone without talking since we met. I think, I think we went like two, three days. Um, and then, um, I texted him and I was like, we need to talk. And we went, we, we took a drive, we met in the middle of a street and we got in the car and he told me who she was and he showed me. And I was like, okay, so that was the girl you were talking to a couple of months back. Now it's all making sense. Like you said, you were talking to a girl that needed help with Snapchat. And I'm thinking like, why is a married man talking to a woman about Snapchat? Like Snapchat wasn't even monetized in the day. Like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you doing? Like, okay, this is making sense. Okay, this is making sense. Okay. So I thought, okay, well,

• 49:32Speaker 01

  what do we need to do? Like, how, how can we, how can we move on from this? Like, what do we do? Like, I was like, and I didn't tell him this at the time, but I thought, I can forgive him. Because he's crying out for help. And

• 49:48Speaker 01

  I can, I, because at the time I was, I wasn't religious. I still not religious. You know, I'm, I'm, I believe in Christ, but I'm not bound by like religious, um, structures. But I was very like, you stick to your husband. I was very like traditional in that sense and I don't know who made me like that, but I was just that way. And I thought, okay, maybe I can forgive him, you know? And so as the days went on, you know, then we went to, um, a trip to Hawaii. Someone said we should go there because you know, that's where the heart chakra of, of the planet is. And you know, maybe we can get some healing. And so we went to Hawaii and then that's when I had posted that I was pregnant. Thinking like, I'm getting bigger now and need to post. And

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's it's a it's a secret that I was carrying inside of me and I wanted to like scream out loud that I was going through this, but I couldn't.

• 50:37Alex Cooper?

  Listening to you say this, though, Catherine, like so many times now, you've said the minute you find out, you're like, how can we fix this? How can we fix this? And I think it does connect to what you've been saying of like, you're on this hamster wheel. You're out of your body, you're all this happened to your life and you're just going and you can't even like stop to be like, are you okay? Like, do you? It's almost like you, it sounds like you weren't even like feeling like you were just like, how do we fix this? It's like almost like your business. You're like, how do we fix this and move forward? How do I say bye, my man and move forward? I'm wondering, though, when you're saying all this, like, is he apologetic in the car when he's speaking? Or is he keeping it more like brushing it under the rug?

• 51:22Alex Cooper?

  It's not that big of a deal?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be honest with you.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  It never felt apologetic ever.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  And you know what's interesting is, um,

• 51:41Speaker 01

  even through our divorce, even through everything, I never heard him say the words, I cheated, until about a week ago, when that first chapter of my book came out. I've never heard him say the words, I cheated. And when I heard the words, I was like, oh, my God. Finally, I heard it. Thank you so much. That was all I was waiting for. Thank you. That's all I needed to hear. You could have just said it to me. You could have just been honest with me and just told me. But it was like I was being gaslighted, like it like it wasn't actually happening and it was like, and, um,

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that finally hearing those words was so healing for me because it's like I wasn't going crazy like it was everywhere. Everyone was saying it.

• 52:32Alex Cooper?

  Why do you think he decided to finally say those words? Just because you were officially calling him out?

• 52:37Speaker 01

  That and because now I understand the bigger, the whole picture. I get it. Um, I think a common theme for him was, um, because if you really think about it, what kind of woman sleeps with a married man whose whole identity is based on being a married man and having, being a family man, you know? So I kept thinking, I kept going through those things as well as like, women are really like that, like women? And so, um, what I was thinking was, um, he must have been telling this woman that I didn't care. And in that video he, he posted last week, um, out of everything he said, I mean, everything was false, right?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Uh, or distorted or whatever, but, but the one thing he said that really, really just like, it was like a, like a punch to the gut was that he said that I was, that yes, I cheated and she was okay with it as long as, um, he said, as long as I said, you don't embarrass me. And that is not true. I never, ever, ever said that. I would never say that. And I would never want my kids to think that that is okay to cheat on your husband or your wife and I will make sure that I raise them and that they know that they never ever do that because that is so wrong and you never cheat on the person you love. And I would never in a million years say that. So that was really hurtful that he

• 54:08Speaker 01

  that he said that because I'm like, are you, just accept it. People would understand that better.

• 54:14Alex Cooper?

  He's putting the blame back on you. That's him taking no accountability. Think about that. The first time he acknowledges that he cheated, the end of his sentence, he can't just say, I cheated. Yes, I cheated because she told me just don't make me look dumb. AKA you were allowing him to go and have all these relationships and you're sitting here being like,

• 54:34Speaker 01

  I would never, Alex.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  I would never do that.

• 54:38Alex Cooper?

  And I think now also understanding like how you write in the book, you kind of talk about like once the first you really got the concrete evidence, then more came out. Like, how many more did you find out about?

• 54:52Speaker 01

  I know, like, I know personally of women, like, I like, don't know them personally, like, as I'm friends with them, but I know who they are. And I would never say their names.

• 55:04Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Never, never, never, never. I would never, you know, I'm not that kind of person. But I know of many. Um.

• 55:13Alex Cooper?

  Many as in like?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  I know for sure of three. Like, for sure, for sure.

• 55:18Alex Cooper?

  Have they ever reached out to you?

• 55:20Speaker 01

  No, but they're out there in the world acting like that never happened, probably. And I know the truth.

• 55:26Alex Cooper?

  How many do you think there are?

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Hmm, I don't know. I, I saw some headline things saying he said there was twenty or something. I don't know if that's true or not.

• 55:35Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  I, because I didn't watch his full video. But, um, I don't know if he did say that, kind of trying to cover himself.

• 55:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Um, because I think when he saw, um, the beginning, the, the first chapter of my book, he thought maybe that I wrote a lot more about him, but I kind of didn't, in a sense, like, to be honest with you, it's a memoir about my life. Um, but I will say that when you write a book, you always put the, um, the hardest part of your journey in the beginning of the book, right? To catch the reader, to really draw them in. That's just something that, as writers, is common. And so, um, he really got it backwards.

• 56:09Alex Cooper?

  I want to ask you, there were some like viral cheating rumors that I want to just like get your opinion on.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:17Alex Cooper?

  Tana Mongeau recently revealed that she covered for Austin after you found lipstick in Austin's car. What really happened there?

• 56:27Speaker 01

  So, she...

• 56:31Speaker 01

  She covered for him, which I believe that is probably true, definitely happened because um I remember we had a Lamborghini at the time. I never drove that car and I got in one day um as a passenger and I noticed there was a lip uh lip liner. Lip uh lip liner or lip gloss, something like that. And it wasn't mine and I thought and I I I'm like, who's is this? He's like, oh, um. So and so got in my car the other day and he, you know, his girlfriend was on the lap and I drove them down the street to get into their car. And I just I I'm like, I don't believe you like. At this point now, I'm I'm I don't believe you.

• 57:10Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  He's like, I'm gonna call him right now. And so I guess she was there.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  And um.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, you know, um. I think her publicly talking about that is hurtful. Why didn't you call me? Message me. Tell oh, hey, girl. I was there on that phone call. I just want to let you know, you know. That wasn't true.

• 57:35Alex Cooper?

  It was also rumored that Austin would hire nannies so he could sleep with them when you weren't around. Do you know if this is true?

• 57:42Speaker 01

  No, we never had a nanny.

• 57:43Alex Cooper?

  Never had a nanny.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Grandma.

• 57:44Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Um, did you ever get confirmation if the infamous yacht orgy happened?

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yes, I actually did.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:56Alex Cooper?

  Wow. And that was when he butt dialed you that weekend?

• 57:59Speaker 01

  That was that weekend. Yeah.

• 58:02Alex Cooper?

  How did you get confirmation?

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Through a friend who's married to a guy that was physically there.

• 58:09Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Years later, by the way.

• 58:12Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  When it didn't matter anymore. It just like, it was like, oh, really? Okay, that's impressive to me.

• 58:17Alex Cooper?

  Right. You're like, shit.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  I guess it did happen.

• 58:19Alex Cooper?

  Did Austin really bring his mistress to a charity event you guys threw together at the Staples Center?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there was this girl, um, the girl that I I was talking about earlier, the one with the long text. So that was her.

• 58:32Alex Cooper?

  Since that info information came to light, Austin has completely denied it, said he would have never brought a girl there that never happened. Like, what do you say to that?

• 58:41Speaker 01

  To me, it's like, why lie about that? But now I know like you can lie about a lot of things that aren't true. So I'm like, okay, well, because the thing is, is that I knew that writing this book, there would be some kind of like retaliation or some, some things that are said. I knew that, you know, something would come from this, obviously, because, you know, I wrote a book. Um, I didn't know about magnitude, that I wasn't aware of, but it's interesting because I, I saw it and I thought this, this is not

• 59:15Speaker 01

  me, you know, like this is, I'm past that. Like, I truly feel like it was a test. Truly, it's like,

• 59:26Speaker 01

  you, Austin, you could have handled that differently. You know, you could have said, I saw, I saw, see, she has a book out, you know, and, and one of the things he said is I didn't tell him about the book. The thing is, is when you go through a divorce, you don't really tell someone what you're doing. You know what I mean? And I had been promoting the book for, actually for two years, I've been talking about it. So he hadn't seen it. Um, I think if I would have mentioned the book to him privately, he may have want to try to stop me from doing it. So it was just something I didn't, I mean, it's doing me, you know? Um, but yeah, I think that, um,

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  him, he, he could have handled it differently. He could have said, you know, I just saw that Catherine, you know, my ex-wife, she has a book out. And he could have said something along the lines of, you know, although I don't totally agree with what she said, you know, there's, I guess there's always different sides of the story and I wish her well.

• 1:00:18Alex Cooper?

  And I'm not proud of the things I did, but we've both moved on and whatever.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Alex Cooper?

  I just feel like the staple center moment for him to try to say that wasn't true. It's like, again, Austin, trying to reclaim this narrative because specifically that, I think because there's footage of you and your family, and it was such a core of who you guys were

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:00:40Alex Cooper?

  to the world. It makes him just look like an absolute fucking monster to like, you, if you're gonna cheat, can't you just go do it in private? Like you have to put Catherine and your children through this. And so I think, It must be him trying to reclaim the narrative a little bit and like litigate like, well, no, I didn't bring her here, but I brought her. It doesn't fucking matter.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Well, the crazy thing is it did happen and that's where I found out all the lies. So like that moment was a significant moment in my life. So of course I'm going to talk about it if that was life changing for me. Because I was pregnant when all of these things were going on. And I got confirmation from one of his family members saying, I told him not to bring that girl and da, da, da, da, da. And I'm thinking like, what? You knew too? Like, I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, like, I'm just being blindsided over here. Like, I had no idea. Like truly, like, yeah, I've been seeing the rumors and the narratives. But, oh my gosh, like, why can't you tell me? Like, why don't you talk to me?

• 1:01:43Alex Cooper?

  Was this before or after the text incident that you?

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  That was around the same time.

• 1:01:48Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so that's when it all started to like spout? And then to go to this event and have that woman there? And now he's trying to say no. Okay. Austin recently tried to justify all of his cheating by saying you guys weren't having sex. What was your sex life like at the time?

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  So, um, sex intimacy is very, very sacred to me. Like more today than it has ever been.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  When I found out that there was cheating, I checked out. And I said, my body is a temple. And I refuse to allow anybody to come near my temple if he cannot be honest and truthful and loyal. And it was like, I'm checked out. And it is true. And I actually, I wrote it in the book. I put the same exact, put four years. It was four years. It was actually more like five years if you think about it because,

• 1:02:54Alex Cooper?

  Five years of what?

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Of not being intimate with him. Because, um, just to be completely transparent and honest, because I do feel like a lot of women and men can relate to this, but. Um, I was going through a lot of postpartum, you know, your body changes, you know, breastfeeding and you're taking care of multiple children. And so, um, we, um, we had my daughter and then we had, you know, I was pregnant that whole year and I was the cheating allegations, all the things. And I thought, you know, I don't know. And then I got pregnant with my son. And I'm thinking like, maybe we can make this work, you know, maybe this is not what it all seems to be. And, you know, we had just moved into our new house and we're like, you know, maybe,

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  maybe we can have a, the family that we're always meant to have, you know, the family that we're portrayed of the world, you know, maybe we can really be that.

• 1:03:45Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  And I got pregnant and then that was, and then I found out he was cheating on me and that was it. That was a never, never, ever, ever like.

• 1:03:56Alex Cooper?

  Never again.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Never again.

• 1:03:58Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm. And did he pursue you at all? Like, did he try?

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  No. And that's how I knew that there's cheating going on.

• 1:04:08Alex Cooper?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  And you know what? Now, now I know how that's not normal.

• 1:04:15Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  At the time, I thought, you know, we're going through a lot, you know, there's a lot of bad things happening around us, you know, we have children, you know, and we're overworked and we're tired and we're stressed and we are anxious and all these things. And now I think back, I'm like, even when I would like, we would kiss, it just, it was a disconnection. And I thought, this isn't my husband, like.

• 1:04:41Alex Cooper?

  Prior to all the cheating allegations, like, did you have like a healthy intimacy life with him?

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that that's what part of, you know, our love and our bond. It's like, we are so deeply connected, like in all ways. And yeah, I'm a, I'm a huge part of this problem, though. It's like, I take it full accountability on being in a relationship with someone and not also pursuing intimacy because.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Although I was disgusted and I didn't want like to be intimate, I didn't have these very serious conversations like, hey, maybe we should go see a therapist. Like, maybe we should do couples therapy. Maybe like, this is a normal going like another year without being physically intimate. It is such an important part of a marriage and a relationship.

• 1:05:36Alex Cooper?

  Was it the cheating that really broke down your marriage? Or were you guys rocky before you found out and with the allegations?

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  It was cheating. It was nothing else. Couldn't handle anything.

• 1:05:49Alex Cooper?

  I have to ask, Austin said you weren't having sex because you believed you were the Virgin Mary reincarnated. What is your response to that?

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Um, it's really hurtful because it's just such a strange thing to say. For years in my spiritual journey, I would, you know, everyone in my circle and everyone knows how deeply connected I am to Christ and to Mother Mary.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  More than ever today, I, I, I feel like I can connect to her always. And I think that's just his way to just throwing jobs, just trying to make me look crazy. You know, try to paint a picture of she's crazy.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, it's, I don't know, it's kind of sad.

• 1:06:34Alex Cooper?

  During all of this, I think this is something that's very sadly relatable, but you didn't confide in anyone, right? For most of the time, how did you decide not to tell your mom or anyone?

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  My decision was solely based on the fact that I didn't want that to change people's perception of him because I thought that we, we could heal and we can get to a better place. I didn't want to say something and then them like have so much, you know, information. At the end of the day, it's like, it's almost like gossip, like, you know, gossiping. And I believe, I truly believe that gossiping is poison. And so I thought, you know, this is my marriage and I'm gonna, I'm just gonna keep it to myself because I need to figure it out within myself. When I decided that I wanted a divorce, that's truly when I told my parents and my family. It's like, I want to get a divorce and they were very supportive of me.

• 1:07:30Alex Cooper?

  But was it like eating you alive, holding this on by yourself?

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Yes, and for a while it was, but I felt at one point, I'm like, everybody knows. You know, it's like, everybody knows. It's, it's, it was like, it started to become so obvious.

• 1:07:47Alex Cooper?

  I, I do think, which I'm interested to hear your opinion on this, like, I think there was a point where the public

• 1:07:57Alex Cooper?

  was almost shifting to being like so frustrated almost with you because all of these women are coming forward with like pretty detailed, tangible stories and you guys are posting like a united front, nothing's going on. How do you think not acknowledging all of it publicly impacted your reputation?

• 1:08:37Alex Cooper?

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• 1:10:02Alex Cooper?

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• 1:10:47Alex Cooper?

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• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  It deeply impacted my reputation. I felt like I was like in a fishbowl and like I couldn't like, it's like all these eyes pressing in on me and I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, I don't know. Do I, do I protect? Or do I say my truth and then my whole life changes? You know what I mean? And it's like,

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  I always thought about my kids first, like I need to be a mother to them. I need to mother them. Their mother needs to be happy, healthy, laughing, playing. Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna like have two separate homes right now. I don't wanna have to figure out what I'm gonna do for a living now, because we've been doing this for almost 10 years. You know, we've been doing this for so long and.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  It was just me trying to just like navigate that with myself. Like I didn't want to make these big impulsive decisions publicly.

• 1:12:06Alex Cooper?

  And I think that's totally fair. I think like, I get why people would start to be like, hello, like, do you know, like, what are you doing? Like, say something or leave or say I'm staying with him, even though I think.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  There was moments where I'm like, I'm gonna leave tomorrow. Like, I'm gonna do this tomorrow. And I'm, I'm just not gonna look back and I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna find a place. And, you know, it, we won't film and people are gonna wonder what happened to us. That like, I had those moments. Yeah, I had those moments. Um, but I think what was the hardest part about all of it was that he would never admit to it. And I thought, well, if you're not admitting it to me, you're not gonna admit it to the world.

• 1:12:46Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  So that was the hardest part.

• 1:12:48Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's almost like you were in this like gaslighted situation where this person is telling you it's not happening. And even though in your heart, you know, it's happening, you also are presenting as United Front to the world. And it's like, am I gonna say it? And then he's gonna deny it, even though the whole world knows it. And I've been, and I'm pregnant and I don't want to leave and I have kids. Like, it's such a complicated situation. And I get with social media, people just judge on the surface. Um, I've done it. You know what I mean?

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Another thing too, Alex, is another big thing that I had in the forefront of my mind. And I look back and think like, oh, my gosh, I shouldn't have been thinking like that. But I felt like if I, like if I broke the family, I'm thinking like, I'm needing to break the family for this, then I'm gonna break everyone's heart. I'm gonna break millions and millions of people who watch us and who sees, sees us as this powerful, power couple. And I'm gonna break everyone's heart because this isn't real. This isn't true. This isn't what people think it is anymore. And I also didn't want people to bash him because I'm like, as much as he hurt me, as much as I feel like I got stabbed in the back, like, I can handle that. But like, can you handle the scrutiny and the, the, all this?

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  It's like, and clearly not because not, my book didn't even come out yet. And he, you know, but. For a long time, that was, that was a huge part of why I didn't want to speak up because I don't want the father of my children to, to get this like public humiliation. But then, over the years, I thought, well, he already got it. You know, um, I need to do what's best for me. I can't keep living in a lie. I can't, I can't not address the big elephant in the room.

• 1:14:28Alex Cooper?

  I also will just say, and I'm sure so many people watching right now are feeling this, like, I have so much respect for you. Even trying to protect him, because I think a lot of people understandably would be like, fuck you. Fuck you. And the fact that you, again,

• 1:14:50Alex Cooper?

  chose to put your family first and not yourself first, and you really looked at the big picture. Like, I think a lot of women, and especially mothers, will be able to be like, I think I would do the same thing.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:01Alex Cooper?

  Um, you talk about a breaking point, because I think at some point, we're all like, the cheating and what. When did you know this marriage was completely over? And how did you go about telling him?

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  There was a conversation that we had right before he had this big, uh, boxing, uh, match. He was, um, the, uh, it was like, it was like our vet, and then he was like the main person on the card. And the night before, I felt, I felt like something was about to happen.

• 1:15:30Alex Cooper?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  I don't know. It was like this like intuition feeling like, in my gut, I'm like, I don't know, something feels really strange about tomorrow. Like, the fight was gonna be the next day.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  And I, we were in the living room and, you know, the lights were down, the kids were sleeping. And I said, I'm not happy.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  And he's like, why are you, why are you talking about this now? Why, why are you doing this now? I have a fight tomorrow. Like, can't you just be a little bit more sympathetic to, you know? And I was like, but I, I had to say it right now. I just, I'm really not happy. Like, I genuinely don't feel good, Austin. Like, I don't feel, something doesn't feel right. And, oh, you know, we can have, we could have had this conversation after and this and that. And then the next day, he got really sick right before his fight. He had a hundred and three fever. He was really sick. It didn't, it felt like a message. It didn't feel like he just randomly got sick. No one else got sick but Austin. And, um, I walked into, they were staying at an Airbnb. It was like the whole team, you know, the, uh, everybody for the fight.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  And they were getting ready to, um, get in the Sprinter, uh, Sprinter van or the bus. And I came in and hair and makeup done. And I'm like, hey, what's going on? He's like, come, come to the room. He's like, feel my forehead. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like you're, he's like, I, I'm, I have a hundred and three fever. It just came a couple of hours ago. I don't know. And I'm like, well, what are you gonna do? I was like, you can't fight. He's like, no, I, I have to, like, I can't not. And mind you, we just had this conversation about ye- yesterday, like this gut feeling, like something doesn't feel right. And like, I feel like what happened that night in the fight was very, um, it was like a mirror of what's going on in our internal life.

• 1:17:11Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain just if people didn't see the fight?

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so basically, um, he got really sick.

• 1:17:16Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  I went out into the floor, you know, we're all watching them on the ring. And he got, the first time he got knocked down, I, I thought, oh, my God, this is the first time I've ever seen my husband crumble. And my heart stopped and I wanted to scream and cry and yell and just, I hated, I hated that moment. And then there was a voice and then he, he got knocked down. It was a second one and then a third and then a fourth and then a fifth. And he just kept standing up and I kept thinking, oh, my gosh, this is who he is. He always stands up when he falls. And there, I heard this voice and it was like, it's okay. He's having an ego death. He has to go through this. Hold space for him. Everything's gonna be okay. And we left the ring. We got in the ambulance.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  He was completely disoriented. He just kept saying the words, "I need water." And I was like yelling at the paramedics, "Please get him water. He's thirsty. He's thirsty. He needs water." And they're like, "No, it's against protocol. We can't give him water." "We have to wait to get him into the hospital and check in and this and that." And so, um, that happened. And then the next day, he was feeling better. I grabbed his hand and I posted a picture of us holding hands. And I was so ready to let go the day before. And I was like telling the world, "I'm still here for him." And it was like this moment of like,

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  "Yes, we are not romantically together in that way, "but I still respect him as a father and my children. "And no matter what, I will always stand by his side." And it was like that kind of energy. So then it was almost like I was okay being in the relationship as a, as a family, as like, "I'm here. We're a team." But it was like, "We were not a team." "You were still lying to me."

• 1:19:08Alex Cooper?

  When did you tell him you wanted to divorce?

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  So, uh, we had talked about it a couple of times. I never said the words, "I want a divorce." I never said that, those words ever out loud. Um, we had, the last, the last conversation we'd had on separating, we actually talked about, um, him, you know, getting another home. And I was getting another home because we were actually planning on leaving the rental we were at. And you know when you have like really deep conversations about making plans? And then they just don't fall through? So it's kind of like that kind of thing. And, um, and then the stress of like life and all the things that it brings, you know? So that wasn't like, um, we weren't like, like we weren't trying to get that done quickly, you know?

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  Because usually when it comes to an end, you want to make, you want to get it done, right? But we hadn't reached that moment of like, "It's an urgency. We need to do it right now." When I had that realization that it has to happen right now, I have to stop waiting for the right time because there's never gonna be a right time. The moment is now. And I had that realization when it was on my thirty-third birthday. So this is really interesting. My whole life, like ever since I was a kid, I always said thirty-three is gonna be the biggest year of my life. And I would say that, just like jokingly in my mind. And I thought thirty-three is gonna be the biggest year of my life. And then I turned thirty-three and I was talking to my dad

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  and I was like, hey, I really wanna go to this retreat in Brazil. And he was like, I wanna go with you. And I was like, perfect, like me, you and Ryan will go to this retreat, you know. And I booked my flight on my birthday. And in that moment, you know, Austin and I, it was, it was done. We didn't, we just didn't make the, we didn't put the wheels in motion to officially divorce and separate. But it was there.

• 1:21:04Alex Cooper?

  But you knew you were separated?

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  We were separated, for sure, because it was so obvious. It was like, it was in the air. It was, we hardly saw each other. We stopped filming.

• 1:21:13Alex Cooper?

  So there was no like big moment that you were both like, we're done. Let's go our separate ways?

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Well, there was, because I went on the retreat. And then when I came back, I had this massive expansive experience. And I got back, I landed back in Tali, he picked me up. I got in the car and he looked over, he said, oh, how was it? And I was like, good. And in my head, I'm thinking like, like, he, he doesn't understand what I, what, where I just went, what I just did, how, like, he doesn't understand. And I thought, that's okay. We just, we're different places vibrationally now. And I was like, if I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it right now. I got in the car, I closed the door.

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  How was it? We're driving out, literally driving out of the airport. And I said, Austin, I need to talk to you. He's like, hey, what's up? I was like,

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  It's not a secret that our relationship is done. And we're both unhappy. You know, I've been unhappy for a long time. I know you've been unhappy for a long time. And I want a divorce. And he's driving. Okay.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  It's like, okay. I was like, oh, my gosh. All right. Well, I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so happy. I was like, um. I was like, I, you know, I'm on your team and I love you and I want to do this right. And you know, it doesn't have to get ugly. I pray I don't want it to get ugly. And um, and I said, um, and, and I said these words, I said, let's discuss an exit plan together as a team. Like, let's do it together. He goes, yeah, yeah, we could talk about it, you know. And, and I was like, um, he goes, it's funny because, um, my realtor the other day sent me a house. Uh, that's for rent down the street from, from where we're living now. And I, I thought, oh, okay, cool. He's like, yeah, it's interesting how life works. And I was like, yeah, I was like, have you seen the house? He's like, oh, I'm gonna see it next week. And I'm like, okay, cool.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  And then it was just kind of like, okay, like, we're gonna do this.

• 1:23:14Alex Cooper?

  Why did you guys never make a video to kind of like talk about your separation? Because that was kind of like your guys' thing?

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't want to make a video because if he wasn't telling me the truth without the cameras rolling, he's for sure not going to tell the truth with the cameras rolling. So I thought, well, I'm not gonna do a video with you side by side. If you can't say I cheated on my wife and, you know, it led us to this path, we're both, we both have made mistakes. I would share my mistakes, you know, like, I didn't have good communication, you know, I, you know, I wasn't there for him, maybe when he needed me emotionally, you know, and all of these things. And I thought, he can't be honest, so I'm not doing the video.

• 1:23:57Alex Cooper?

  And then he came out and said that you didn't want him to make his own video explaining the breakup from his point of view. And I guess that kind of answers it because you're like, well, you're not gonna tell the fucking truth.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  He didn't tell the truth. He said, there's things that I regret, but it's like, that could be anything.

• 1:24:12Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  And then not to mention, um, so this is the thing about that. And I'm just gonna be completely bluntly honest because at this point, just my throat chakra is open and I'm just gonna be me.

• 1:24:22Alex Cooper?

  Let's go.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Um, when we discussed the divorce, I said, I'd really like to do a joint, like, um, statement.

• 1:24:31Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  That, you know, a lot of people, sometimes they do statements, it's just easier, you know, and, and, um, he's like, oh, no, no, I want to make a video. And I said, well, I don't want to be in your video. So. I don't, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna do, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna make a statement. He goes, oh, well, give me a chance to make a video and I'll show it to you and then you could tell me if you like it. And if you like it, then I'll post it. And I thought, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm actually curious to see what's in that video, right? I was really curious. So I'm like, make the video. So it took a month for him to actually make it.

• 1:24:59Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  And I'm like, okay.

• 1:25:01Alex Cooper?

  Here we go.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  I get to see it. Oh, my gosh, like, I'm so curious what he said. And I was in the room, in the office room, and I was watching it and just blunt, like, honest, honest to God. I was watching the video and I thought,

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  this is like social suicide. Like, I genuinely feel like this is gonna make him look so bad. And I love Austin, no matter what, and I care about him, truly. So I'm thinking, if he couldn't at least say the truth, because people, like, people love truth.

• 1:25:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  People love when people are honest and vulnerable. And he, he wasn't doing that. It was like he was going around the truth. And I, and I looked at it, I said, I don't like the video. I was like, if you post that, go ahead. If you post that, it, it doesn't look, I'm, I'm just gonna be honest. Because at that point, it's like, I wanna help you too. I want you to move on in your life too. I don't want you to be, to have this energy around you.

• 1:25:55Alex Cooper?

  Right, but people are gonna call you out and be like, you're a lot, you're lying. Like, this is a big fat lie. Like, we know you're skirting around the actual thing.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. So then I said, I don't like it. So he recorded me saying that.

• 1:26:08Alex Cooper?

  Why do you think he recorded you?

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm just finding this out, by the way.

• 1:26:12Alex Cooper?

  Cause you didn't know he was filming?

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  No. I think it was because he thought, well, I'm, I, this is what I think. I think he was never planning on posting the video. I think he made it. So, and, and, and again, I don't know, right? This is just my speculation.

• 1:26:28Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Um, I think he made it knowing he wasn't gonna post it, but made it so that, because he knew I wouldn't like it. Cause he knows me. He, he knows me. He's been living with me, married to me for years. I'm mother of his children.

• 1:26:41Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  And I think he recorded me almost purposely to get those words out of me so that maybe later in the future, if he ever needed it. And he, yeah, he, I mean, he got it in twenty four hours. He had it there in his phone. It was almost like ready to go. And when I saw that, I thought, oh, my gosh, can other people see this? Or am I the only one who sees like?

• 1:27:03Alex Cooper?

  That's crazy that he's like secretly recording.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Manipulative. It's manipulative.

• 1:27:09Alex Cooper?

  And it's illegal.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's what I was told too. And I thought, well, I don't want to go that route because I mean, we were filming each other and doing pranks and things.

• 1:27:18Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  Throughout the day. And then he would say, well, we used to film each other. And then the fans would say, well, you guys were always filming each other. And I thought, oh, my gosh, can I, my book just come out? I'm like, I just want to move on, truly.

• 1:27:31Alex Cooper?

  One of the biggest conversations online right now is around your ayahuasca use. When did you start taking it?

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  In that really dark period of my life, uh, my marriage was going downhill. I lost my house, my business partners scammed me. Many, many things were happening in our internal lives, our family, our friends, all the things. I just had a baby. I was really in a really dark place. And uh, my brother had been doing this, this very sacred medicine work for many years. And he would tell me all the time, you know, Catherine, one day, like, when you're ready, I'll be here for you. And, and it's a solo journey. And all it took was one night of ceremony and I had a full Kundalini awakening. I remembered everything. It completely changed my life. So it's a very powerful tool.

• 1:28:18Alex Cooper?

  I think a lot of the conversation online because of what Austin kind of said on his Snapchat rant is about your kids and wanting to know, have your kids ever been in the home while you're hosting at home ceremonies?

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  No, absolutely not. That was a lie. I think that um, because he knows how sacred and how um, such how, how, how much has impacted my life. I think that that was the one, that jab that like, I know that means a lot to her. So I'm going to say this, you know, and, and um,

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Maybe a couple of years ago would have been more hurtful. Now it's more like, oh, you know, just. But um, but no, it's that's not true. I think that people will throw stones at things they don't understand. And I think that's what happened with Austin.

• 1:29:02Alex Cooper?

  Has anyone ever expressed concern to you over using ayahuasca?

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  No, no, never.

• 1:29:08Alex Cooper?

  Have you and Austin ever done it together?

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:29:11Alex Cooper?

  Okay, can you please explain Austin's allegation that you quote, turned him into a mermaid?

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I love this one.

• 1:29:21Alex Cooper?

  I literally can't believe that just came out of my mouth. I'm like, is that a thing? Okay, tell me.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  So a couple of years ago, we were always making content, like Austin has dressed up so many times as an older woman. As like just funny skits and stuff. So there was um, I, when I started my skincare line, um, I wanted to do a fun mermaid photo shoot. And I thought like, oh, my God, this is so cool because I'm making um, I'm making a sunscreen and it took me a couple of years to get here and I want to do something really fun and exciting. And um, so we went to Hawaii and there was this girl that I reached out to that wears uh, like she wears like fins. And she's like, oh, I have so many, like we'll, we'll do the campaign around the, the mermaid idea. And I thought that was so cool. So I think that's what he's talking about.

• 1:30:05Alex Cooper?

  But you don't think you're a mermaid?

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I think that I'm connected to the, the mystics and the, the, you know, just these, these different star seed systems and I, I'm just very connected. And I think that that, you know, I, I like to live authentically and I like to share like my journey, you know? I'm just, I'm very connected to these things. But I think when people were just making fun of it and he thought, oh, I'm going to use this and just extra paint her look crazy, you know? And it's like, I think for me, it's just funny now, you know? I think maybe, maybe a couple of years ago, I would have been like, oh, my gosh, that's, I hate that he said that, but I don't care.

• 1:30:42Alex Cooper?

  There has been a lot of speculation online about an overlap between your marriage with Austin and your relationship with your new partner Igor. What was the timeline there?

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  So um, I met him on my Brazil retreat, met in the middle of the Amazon. You know, I'm very honest, just with my journey, like, I think for a long time I was afraid of sharing timelines because I was so in the limelight and on the camera all the time. And it's like, the timeline started to kind of scare me a little. Now I own them. It's okay. Like.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  It was over between us. And it'd been many years of us just not having this emotional intimate marriage that I thought we were gonna have. And I'm gonna be honest with you.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Right before I went on that trip, like the months leading up to that trip, I kept thinking I have so much baggage. When I, when we divorced, because I felt it coming, when we officially divorced, nobody's gonna want me. I have three kids, like I'm, like I'm, you know, in this space and people are gonna just see me as, you know, ace family mom, you know, or whatever. And I thought, you know, who's gonna, who's gonna take me seriously? And, and I don't wanna date, I'm, I don't, I'm, I'm not a dating type of person, you know? And I thought, you know, I'm just gonna be alone forever. And I thought, you know, I'm okay, it's okay, like, I don't need anyone, I'm, I feel complete and whole in myself. And I remember saying that to myself.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  And um, in that retreat, you know, I, it was a four, it was um, I was there for 10 days and it was four days of um, of the, the practice. And um, on the third day, just, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, I don't, I don't have as much baggage as I thought I did. I think it was all in my head. I really started to sit with myself. And yeah, uh, I met him at that, in that experience. It was a friendship. It was like, never imagined that anything would ever go further, ever in a million years. Like, if you would've told me, like, a year ago, two, or a couple of years ago, that I was gonna meet someone, I thought, me? Me meeting someone, who?

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  What does he look like? What does he do? Like, what, where, what is, how do you speak?

• 1:33:02Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  And um, I've never felt so safe in my entire life.

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  And

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  I feel like I earned it because I spent so many years just being there and just like,

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  Just

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  feeling empty and just and I but I really had to pour into myself. I really had to do that.

• 1:33:30Alex Cooper?

  How do Austin and Igor feel about each other?

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  I can't speak for Austin because I don't know. I think

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  I think like what he's done publicly to kind of just um

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  like he he got him a shirt on a Christmas that says something about um stepfather or something. And I thought okay, is he doing this for the for the Snapchat or is he doing this because he actually thinks he's stepfather worthy?

• 1:34:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:34:04Alex Cooper?

  Have you met Austin's new?

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I met her. Yeah.

• 1:34:08Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  I met her about a year ago, I think. Yeah.

• 1:34:11Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel about that?

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  I like her. I think honestly, um I feel like my kids are the best, like they're the best judge, you know, when they they'll they'll come and give me information. I don't even ask, oh, we just did this with Alexa. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, like, did you guys have fun? And like, just kind of seeing their like, interactions and how they talk about her, anybody for them, or just anyone. Um, I get good vibes, you know, and I think like at the end of the day, it's like people meet each other where they're at. So that's them, that's that that is their journey and I I don't judge. I don't have any judgment towards that.

• 1:34:50Alex Cooper?

  Okay, last question. If you could just kind of give like a final statement to the Ace family who's watching and who's been on this journey since your first place where you lived with Austin and when you were pregnant and all the things and they've been here for so long and they felt maybe like we've lost them and things have changed and everything, which changes good, like what do you want to leave a lasting message with them today?

• 1:35:22Speaker 01

  I would say

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Forgiveness is key. Yeah.

• 1:35:30Alex Cooper?

  Thank you so much for coming on and talking about this because I know there's so much behind all this and that's why I'm happy I got to sit down with you today. And like I had said earlier, like, I'm sure at some point I've watched and judged and been like, what's going on? And it's like, so nice to hear you sitting here and like, talking through why you made the decisions you made as a mother and a woman and someone who really wanted to stand by her husband and you explaining things is so relatable, Catherine, like so much of what you said today, I think women are going to relate to and they shouldn't feel shame over staying. They shouldn't feel shame over whether they got cheated on, then they stayed, or they

• 1:36:14Alex Cooper?

  cheated and they left. Like, everyone's journey is their journey. But I think when you've, you've talked so beautifully about you did what you could do at the time and it was your best. And now you're also at a place in your life where you never thought you would be. You just said, I never thought I'd find another person. I thought I'd be alone. I thought I had all this baggage. And turns out, there's another chapter and then there will be another chapter and another chapter. So I'm just so happy that you trusted me with your story and I'm really excited for everyone to read your book.

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:36:43Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for coming on.

• 1:36:59Alex Cooper?

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