‘Tin Cup’ With Bill Simmons, Joe House, and Craig Horlbeck

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Joe House, and Craig Horlbeck pull out the 3-wood to clear the water after revisiting the 1996 classic ‘Tin Cup,’ starring Kevin Costner, Rene Russo, Don Johnson, and Cheech Marin. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Ronak Nair, and Chia Hao Tat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:25Speaker 01

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

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• 1:24Speaker 02

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• 1:30Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell. I like those guys. Star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh, writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot at pure entertainment. And easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.

• 2:15Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find Fairway Roland, which I have.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:20Bill Simmons?

  Good golf season. Scottie Scheffler won every tournament. Mark Hubbard won none.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Hey.

• 2:25Bill Simmons?

  Still a good tournament.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Hey, Mark Hubbard.

• 2:27Bill Simmons?

  He's my favorite golfer. I want him to win a tournament.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Made a nice push.

• 2:30Bill Simmons?

  Craig Horbeck, you can find him on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. He has produced this podcast for most of the 399 movies that we've done. This is movie number 399. And we have a special wrinkle. Executive producer of today's podcast, Jack O.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:47Bill Simmons?

  Me and House's buddy from college, you've heard about my podcast many times. You're gonna just chime in like Gelman on Regis and Caffrey.

• 2:53Speaker 04

  Dream come true. I always wanted to be Gelman. It's finally coming true.

• 2:55Bill Simmons?

  This is gonna be great. This is gonna be an unbelievable Rewatchables. Tin Cup is next.

• 3:15Bill Simmons?

  Tin Cup, 1996, Kevin Costner. A very, very good sports movie. It's very flawed. It has a controversial ending. Ron Shelton, who did Bull Durham. He did White Men Can't Jump. Did a bunch of other movies than Tin Cup. This is like his big trilogy. He said to Premier Magazine in 1996, "The key in making a sports movie is that you have to make it accessible to a person who hates the sport, but you also have to make the guy who knows the sport inside out say, 'They got it right.'" They do that, House, in Tin Cup with golf.

• 3:51Speaker 04

  I think so. There is enough of the ring of truthiness to the, to the way that golf is presented, especially.

• 4:02Speaker 04

  With the infrastructure, the CBS stuff is amazing. I mean, Jim Nance is, you know, next level. Ken Ventura is next level.

• 4:10Bill Simmons?

  It's almost like two movies. When we get to the actual US Open, it turns into a different movie and I'm here for it.

• 4:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's long enough to be two movies. I don't know why this movie is two hours and 15 minutes, but the last hour is just all US Open, which is fantastic.

• 4:23Bill Simmons?

  I thought I was the time length police and Craig is like, you've taken it. You're like the 2.0 version of it.

• 4:28Speaker 05

  This movie, there's a lot of bloat. There's a lot we could probably shave off, but the last hour, hour 15, when they get to the US Open is great. I funnily, I had never seen this movie until two weeks ago before you told me we were doing it. I was on vacation with my in-laws and I watched it one night in an Airbnb with my two brothers. I'm all, we love golf. We honestly came away with the movie and we were like, okay, maybe swing and a miss. You know, this is a bogey, double bogey of a film.

• 4:54Bill Simmons?

  Double bogey.

• 4:55Speaker 05

  And then, I mean, I think once I, watching it upon, watching it the second time, I liked it way more.

• 5:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 05

  I liked it way more.

• 5:03Bill Simmons?

  Second time, it's a different movie.

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Because I think I thought originally the movie was going to be a lot more serious and it's pretty goofy and whimsical. And once you kind of know that's coming, the second time around, you can kind of sit back, relax, enjoy it. But I had no idea just how ridiculous this movie was going to be going in.

• 5:18Bill Simmons?

  I mean, we'll talk about the 12 now, even though it's in the rewatchable scene category, but the, the decision not to lay up on the last hole. The first time you see it, I just remember being enraged in the theater. It's like they're, this would never happen. I don't like that they did this. He should have either just eagled it in one or hit it in the water, demanded to drop it there, then hit it again and maybe, maybe knocks it in from there. Some sort of sports movie thing. I think they were intentionally zagging house against what we expected from it. But now 29 years later, I kind of like it. It's, it's like in its own area of sports movies that it's such a radical decision to have him not win and to play it the way they did it. I don't mind it. We've had, we, you and I are in our mid 50s now.

• 6:03Bill Simmons?

  We've seen a thousand sports movies. This is one of the only ones that zagged.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  Big balls on Ron Shelton for sticking to his guns because apparently, you know, folks in Hollywood wanted the happy ending and no less than authority on golf than President Donald Trump accosted Shelton and said to him, hey, you would have made a lot more money if you'd just had the guy win the tournament at the end. That was the entirety of the interaction between Shelton and President Trump, but.

• 6:34Bill Simmons?

  That was not a recent interaction.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 6:36Bill Simmons?

  This is 1996.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  But he's, you know.

• 6:39Bill Simmons?

  I'm sure he probably still feels the same way. The, the, the thing is, this, it's really one of those movies. Every time you watch it, there's this alternate sliding doors of what happens if he just eagles and gets the 10 and we have the heroic sports movie ending? What happens if he hits in the water? You're like, oh my God, he fucked it up. Oh my God, he's dropping it there. He's, he's melting down, but then he hits it and he wins. What happens if he pars it and we go to a playoff hole?

• 7:08Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what the right answer is all these years later. I still like the 12, but I think there is an alternate universe where he just wins the US Open and maybe it's a better movie.

• 7:16Speaker 05

  It's the right ending for this movie. It's also the right ending for golf. All normal golfers, we can relate to this.

• 7:21Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 7:21Speaker 05

  Right. It's the most relatable thing to be like, can I hit this? Can I hit this 237 with my three wood? Fuck it. I'm going to go for it.

• 7:27Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 7:28Speaker 05

  You know, so that I feel like golf is really good. I think golf is the best sport for a sports movie.

• 7:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 05

  Because football, basketball, baseball, there's like the play and then there's what's going on in between the plays. Golf is fun because you can be talking and listening and there's so much going on just during.

• 7:45Bill Simmons?

  There's banter, there's galleries.

• 7:47Speaker 05

  It's the best. There's interactions going on.

• 7:48Bill Simmons?

  House is going to get a boner soon if you keep going.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  Well, I know Kevin, Kevin Costner's walking around with a Walkman.

• 7:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  He's out there. I don't think that's legal, but he, you know, they, they did it. But I, I like what Craig's describing in terms of that relatability. I mean, under the circumstances, it was preposterous. It's a, you know, you, you, you're tied for the lead in the US Open and you know.

• 8:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's why we have Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing and David Robinson, who did win a title. Jacko has a Clyde Drexler glass, but we're all in honor of Roy McAvoy. Coming up close, no cigar. I guess Robinson eventually won with Tim Duncan, but yeah, it's preposterous. It's so preposterous. Well, we'll dive into it when we do the rewatchable scene. But Molly says at one point, this is without a doubt the stupidest, silliest, most idiotic, grotesque masquerading as a game that has ever been invented. And Roy says, yes, ma'am, that's why I love it. This is why I wanted to make you watch it again and do the pod with us because it's really a love letter to golf.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:47Bill Simmons?

  And it's not about the fancy part of golf. It's about, like Shelton even talks about this. It's about the dudes who wait at five in the morning to play some public course.

• 8:55Speaker 05

  It's about how ridiculous and stupid golf is.

• 8:56Bill Simmons?

  And why do we do it?

• 8:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, because it's the best.

• 8:58Bill Simmons?

  Because you're into it.

• 8:59Speaker 05

  Well, I love golf, golf all the time.

• 9:01Bill Simmons?

  And houses, like, it's all I care about.

• 9:03Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 9:03Speaker 04

  No, I care about.

• 9:04Bill Simmons?

  Jekyll, what's your relationship to golf?

• 9:06Speaker 06

  I play a couple of times a year. I like the, I like playing in tournaments. There's a couple of tournaments I play in with some guys and it's like best ball.

• 9:12Bill Simmons?

  Like celebrity pro-am?

• 9:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, sort of that type of thing. I'm like a hack, but some of my friends are good. But I'll hit a shot or two and that really kind of gets you into it. Like you hit one or two good shots around and you're like, I could really play this game.

• 9:23Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 9:23Speaker 06

  And then I shank one off my foot and I'm like, I really can't play this game. But that's the beauty of it, right?

• 9:28Speaker 04

  With the good ones, dude, does a tuning fork go off in your lunge?

• 9:32Speaker 06

  The good thing about golf is it's a sport you can participate in while drinking. So that's right up my alley. I like that too. So, you know, you're not going to play basketball and have a couple of beers on the bench. But golf, it's part of the game, really.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  There's a good sports movie inside this movie, but they want it to be a romance too much. That's why there's so much going on outside of it. But just, just the golf aspect of this movie is really good. The him versus David Sims thing, all of that is great.

• 9:53Bill Simmons?

  Here's what's happening, because this is 96. We've, we've finished that whole first era of sports movies, which we've done a bunch of on the rewatchables. And now we're moving into this new era of the mid 90s of the next level of a sports movie, because Jerry Maguire comes out the same year as this. Happy Gilmore comes out the same year as this. It's like, all right, we've all done the underdog thing. We've done the raging bull, that type of movie. Now what's the sports movie with the love ball underdog trying to triumph? But it's also a rom com.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:20Bill Simmons?

  It's also something the husband and wife can go to or the boyfriend and girlfriend together. It's a date movie. And there's a lot of these and there's this like renaissance of sports movies right here. From, I would say 95 through 04, and there's a million of them. This is when Varsity Blues, Any Given Sunday, there's like a bunch that we've already done. So I think that's what they're going for. And it's like, there's a Bull Durham, you know, obviously Ron Shelton and Costner did, how do you make Crash Davis different than Roy McAvoy? But it's still Kevin Costner.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  Have you not done Bull Durham on Rewatchables?

• 10:51Bill Simmons?

  Been saving it. It's one of the ones we've saved.

• 10:53Speaker 04

  I, I, I wanted to use it as the cheat code for this because I wanted to hear the, the panel's take on Ron Shelton in advance of this. So I'm into my, the Google machine, trying to find the Rewatchables Bull Durham.

• 11:05Bill Simmons?

  Hasn't happened yet.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  Hasn't happened yet.

• 11:07Bill Simmons?

  You know what else hasn't happened? The, is Kevin Costner unequivocally the sports movie goat? Is it just like a rap or do other people have arguments? Here's his, so he does American Flyers, which I thought we did on Rewatchables. I just think CR and I have talked about it for so long, I felt like we did it. But really good cycling move in the mid eighties. Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, Tin Cup, For Love of the Game, Draft Day, and McFarlane USA, which is like secretly not a bad Disney movie. But that's, and he's done some other stuff too, but that's seven sports movies, different sports, some iconic ones in there. Who is his competition?

• 11:45Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 11:45Bill Simmons?

  Who's in second place?

• 11:46Speaker 04

  That's right. I agree.

• 11:48Bill Simmons?

  It, it, it goes sideways fast. You get Dennis Quaid with Breaking Away, The Rookie, Any Given Sunday, Tough Enough, Everybody's All American and the Express, not even close. But not solid resume.

• 11:59Speaker 04

  Great.

• 11:59Bill Simmons?

  You should be proud.

• 11:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, very good.

• 12:00Bill Simmons?

  He also played Dick Vermeil in a movie, I think.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 12:03Bill Simmons?

  James Earl Jones, Field of Dreams, Bingo Long, Sandlot, and Great White Hope. Has four good ones, but he doesn't have the depth. Sandler's in the mix. It's just they're all comedic, but he's Happy Gilmore, Hustle, The Waterboy, Longest Yard remake, and Happy Gilmore 2. He's at least like, has to be mentioned. The one that falls through the cracks here is Wesley Snipes. Cause he was Major League, White Man Can't Jump, The Fan, Undisputed, Wildcats, Play to the Bone, he's in a couple of bad ones. And then our guy, Woody Harrelson, White Man Can't Jump, Kingpin, Wildcats. Denzel had a couple. He got Game, The Hurricane, Remember the Titans, Paul Newman, Matt Damon. But it's, it's funny, it's clearly Costner. It's not even an argument.

• 12:46Bill Simmons?

  And what's cool about his career, like he shoots a 62 in the US Open in this movie. He pitches a perfect game in Yankee Stadium. He wins the Hell in the West and American Flyers, like he does like some big ass things, but I don't know. What is it about Costner? Why was he so believable? He's a good athlete. First of all, he's handsome.

• 13:03Speaker 05

  He's athletic enough to get away with every sport.

• 13:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:06Speaker 05

  He looks pretty good. I know he got trained by the pro that this movie is loosely based on.

• 13:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Gary McCord.

• 13:11Speaker 05

  I thought his swing was pretty good.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 13:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you want to do this now?

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Well, we might end up there. The background for Costner is that he hadn't played very much golf in his life up to um, the conversation with Shelton, like, would you be interested in?

• 13:26Bill Simmons?

  Big baseball player, big just general athlete. I can do anything.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  But right, he apparently connected with Gary McCord um, a full year in advance. Gary McCord and Peter Costas, who were the both sort of legendary CBS broadcasters. Costas was a teacher, proper, a proper golf teaching pro. And he uh, together with McCord, helped Costner get a swing that I honestly think is credible. It's a credible golf.

• 13:53Speaker 05

  I think it gets better throughout the movie. In the first scene, I was a little skeptical because they were kind of cut some, some, some magic cuts.

• 13:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:59Speaker 05

  It would be like you'd see his takeaway and then it would cut to the follow through without seeing contact with the ball. And I was like, oh, I don't know about this. And I feel like throughout the movie, they started to really just sit on him. A lot of the shots that he's hitting like 150 out under the green, that's him.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  It looks like it.

• 14:12Speaker 05

  You can see it. The research says that.

• 14:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's no CGI, nothing.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  He's hitting like an iron 150 yards under the green.

• 14:18Bill Simmons?

  They said he, he had like not a full swing, which by the way, coincidentally is same for me. And they, they just were like, instead of trying to change his swing, he actually had a really good three, four swing. So they wrote into the script that part about.

• 14:31Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 14:31Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's the wind. You gotta like hit it, which by the way, it doesn't make sense.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  Well, no, no, that is the kind of, if you want to fight the ball lower, you do have a, a swing that, that stops, you know.

• 14:42Bill Simmons?

  But if you were a good pro, you would have both swings.

• 14:44Speaker 04

  You would, if you were a good pro, you would have every kind of.

• 14:46Bill Simmons?

  But I like how they wrote that in a mid sense.

• 14:48Speaker 05

  For a guy who's hitting distance, theoretically, you need a long follow through. Him just stopping short doesn't make sense for him hitting.

• 14:53Speaker 04

  One of the things I saw was that in uh, post-production, they sped up the swing. That he in real life swings slower and was swinging slower as he filmed it. But they applied some speed to, to give a little more of that athletic enhancement.

• 15:08Bill Simmons?

  I tried to do that with your ad reads on Fairway Roland. I sped them up to one, three. I don't know. Nobody told you, right?

• 15:14Speaker 04

  FF, fast forward.

• 15:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah. Another thing about Costner, he just finished Waterworld.

• 15:22Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  Checko.

• 15:27Speaker 04

  Oh, boy.

• 15:28Speaker 05

  A movie I've not seen.

• 15:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz he had already had, I don't remember when The Postman came out, but Waterworld was like this legendary, this is, as we've talked about many times in this pod, the height of movie journalism about movies and people writing about shit in the sets and premier magazines in the, in the peak. And Waterworld's like, oh, my God, they're still in the ocean. The director got fired. This is, this is gonna ruin his career. So Costner said, he didn't want to do any movie. He was going through a divorce. He just finished the longest movie shoot in history. The average movie films for forty to sixty days. I had just done one hundred and fifty-seven days on Waterworld. I was really low. I was down. My heart was on the ground.

• 16:08Speaker 04

  I was all wet.

• 16:09Bill Simmons?

  And he's still wet.

• 16:13Bill Simmons?

  And then Shelton basically is like, come on, dude.

• 16:16Speaker 05

  He's like, hey, what if we pay you to learn how to play golf for six months?

• 16:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just we'll be outside. We'll get, we'll get some cute girlfriend for you.

• 16:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, that's my question. I want to ask this. I haven't, I don't, haven't seen this in the, in the research. I'll just pose it to the panel. Do you think that when he learned that Rene Russo, as he's going through his divorce, that Rene Russo is going to be?

• 16:36Bill Simmons?

  I think she was married at that point, though. He's probably suggesting a bunch of single actresses. He's like, what about Jennifer Aniston? Could she do be a sports psychologist? He said, uh, he said that Shelton wrote in the, uh, the script thing, the swing thing to make that more realistic. The thing that he nailed the most, he nailed the demeanor of being a golfer, but he was really good at the, I made a big shot, hold the putt up.

• 17:04Speaker 05

  The club up is just the coolest move.

• 17:06Bill Simmons?

  And it's a hard one to pull off. Like, if we did it, I'm not sure it looks cool, but when he does it, it looks really cool. And he had, he also did when he shoots the sixty-two and he does the, which, by the way, he does the same move for love of the game, but he just has little athlete tricks, even though he's not an athlete.

• 17:22Speaker 04

  I think he got some pointers on that from the golf folks. They, they, they wanted to lend that authenticity in terms of like, here's how a golfer would do it, kind of thing.

• 17:30Bill Simmons?

  He did have some douchey quotes in the research about golf that I don't know if you saw. Was basically like, I mean, I could have played golf, but you're out there four or five hours a day. Like, I don't want to spend my days like that, like kind of shitting on golf. Don Johnson played all the time. He was like an eight handicap.

• 17:47Speaker 05

  Oh, really?

• 17:48Bill Simmons?

  And, yeah, and, and.

• 17:50Speaker 05

  I thought Costner's swing was better than Don Johnson.

• 17:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that was House's hot take.

• 17:54Speaker 04

  I didn't feel like that was hot, it was that hot of a take. I agree. Now, part of the thing is, uh.

• 17:59Bill Simmons?

  I have an offense for this later.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  If in post-production, they did anything to Don, Don Johnson.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  That's fair. If they were speeding up Costner's swing, that's one thing. But I thought they were cutting around Don Johnson more than they were Costner.

• 18:09Bill Simmons?

  So apparently in the research, they changed Don Johnson's swing so it seemed more like a PGA swing. And he was mad about it because he liked his swing, but he was like, all right, fine.

• 18:19Speaker 05

  Oh, because he had like a quirky personal swing that they wanted to correct?

• 18:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but he was like cranking it. So he liked his other swing.

• 18:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:27Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, and that one didn't work.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:30Bill Simmons?

  House, here's one for you. Oh, Jacko, you'll enjoy this as well.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  Good, good.

• 18:35Bill Simmons?

  You having a good time, Jacko?

• 18:36Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm a hundred percent.

• 18:37Bill Simmons?

  You're doing a good job, executive producing.

• 18:39Speaker 04

  Doing a fine job.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  Telling you how to switch cameras.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  Here, yeah. Camera three, camera three.

• 18:44Bill Simmons?

  1996, most important golf year ever.

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Tigers, right?

• 18:48Bill Simmons?

  Here we, here we, here's 96.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I got House's full attention.

• 18:52Speaker 04

  I, I mean, I, I think.

• 18:52Bill Simmons?

  That was like an espresso shot.

• 18:54Speaker 04

  I can anticipate some of this. I'm looking forward to it.

• 18:56Bill Simmons?

  Happy Gilmore comes out in February.

• 18:59Bill Simmons?

  The most beloved golf movie other than maybe Caddishack ever made. It's, but it's those two in the finals. The Faldo Norman Masters is in April. The most traumatic golf event of our life, which is funny because the tin cup comes out.

• 19:13Speaker 04

  By Norman, basically.

• 19:15Bill Simmons?

  Literally, was there, has there been, I, I don't, I think that was the most traumatic sports event ever.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Questioned golf wise, certainly.

• 19:22Bill Simmons?

  Like Faldo won, you know what happened in that, right?

• 19:24Speaker 04

  There is an argument for the guy, the Frenchman who had a, you know, multi-shot.

• 19:28Bill Simmons?

  But we had way more ties to Greg Norman. We had been the guy for 10 years. Like he was, Greg Norman was basically.

• 19:37Speaker 04

  The best golfer in the world who had never won the big one.

• 19:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Was he like basically like Bryson level of Bryson never won, like one of those like big, big South African, big swing. Had all the talent.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  He's Australian.

• 19:49Speaker 04

  Australian.

• 19:49Bill Simmons?

  Australian, I mean, um, South African. My first mistake. This is great to have Jacko here. It's like, it's like, correct.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  I'm like Australian. I'd be jumping on the mic.

• 19:59Bill Simmons?

  But he melted down in the 86 Masters, like he famously helped, but he, he could never get over the hump. And then by the time we got to this, it was, uh, it was basically like, uh, what's his face now? Tommy Fleetwood.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 20:11Bill Simmons?

  Where you're just like, uh, he's got a lead with four holes left. You know, he's gonna blow it.

• 20:15Speaker 04

  I, I, I mean, you know, Norman, uh, career wise, much more accomplished than, than Fleetwood. I mean, that's, that's why.

• 20:21Bill Simmons?

  But so he has the Masters, he's up by multiple strokes and falls apart.

• 20:26Speaker 05

  On the 18th.

• 20:27Bill Simmons?

  No, on the back nine.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  All Sunday. Yeah.

• 20:30Bill Simmons?

  Like legendary. Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Nick Faldo came back from six strokes to win.

• 20:34Bill Simmons?

  So Faldo wins. It's so awful that Faldo wins. He doesn't even celebrate and he just walks over to Norman and hugs him. It's like, it's just, yeah, it's like guilty. Anyway, that happened. Tiger wins his third straight US amateur, which had never happened, the three-peat, and he's about to turn pro.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 20:50Bill Simmons?

  Tiger signs with Nike.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 20:52Bill Simmons?

  Completely changes cough. Tin Cup comes out in August. Tiger launches his PGA career that summer as well. Wins his first PGA event. And we're off. Golf has now reset. We have pop culture in place. We had the Nike thing. We're about to have the boom and Tiger blows up the next year. I'm making the case. I don't know if I'm right.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  I think you're right. I mean, the.

• 21:13Bill Simmons?

  It's definitely a shift because you could see it in this movie.

• 21:16Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:16Bill Simmons?

  The guys they have in this movie, it's like, hey, there's Billy Mayfair. There's John Cook. Like, these guys were not stars.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:24Bill Simmons?

  And it just felt like.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  Lee Jansen.

• 21:26Bill Simmons?

  Young Mickelson was in there at least.

• 21:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, gambling.

• 21:28Bill Simmons?

  You know who was the number one, who won the US Open and was the number one golfer in 1996? This, this makes my point. The immortal Tom Lehman.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Uh.

• 21:38Bill Simmons?

  How many Tom Lehman combos have you had? Nicholas won his last senior PGA this year too. 96.

• 21:45Speaker 05

  Also, the, the golf movie didn't really continue after the late 90s. It like the, the, the early 2000s into the 2010s.

• 21:51Bill Simmons?

  Legend of Bagger Vance really set it back for like 10 years.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. Seven Days of Utopia is out there. There's a handful, but they're not.

• 21:59Bill Simmons?

  I agree with you that there should be more of them.

• 22:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. I think it's one of the easier.

• 22:02Bill Simmons?

  Easy to film.

• 22:03Speaker 05

  Yeah. Like I said, you, you can have characters interacting and talking and doing things while the sport is being played. It's the easiest to kind of cut around. It's probably the easiest to shoot. Surprise there's not more.

• 22:13Bill Simmons?

  I always thought the, the layup idea for a golf movie that, and I think I might even written this. I was sitting there was somebody like, uh, basically almost like, uh, I'm trying to think like a Michael Vick type character, like somebody that would be more in football and basketball, but comes in and it's almost like the movie Entourage. And it's like this culture clash with the PGA Tour. Cause we never, we never really had anything like that. And I always thought that would have been fascinating to just put that kind of athlete into the tour for a movie idea.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  It's like a serious version of Happy Gilmore, almost.

• 22:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, never happened. Yeah. Happy Gilmore is the silly version of it. Ron Shelton, so he has those big three. He also wrote Blue Chips and Great White Hype. Did Blaze, Cobb, Played the Bone, had like a 12 year run. Just basically it was like, I want to do a golf movie and had his partner, this guy, John Norville is a co-writer with them. They had a producer, Gary Foster, and they're just like, what can we do? What can we do? So apparently in the 93 Masters, this guy named Chip Beck, who was a Grip It and Rip It guy, he laid up on the par five 15th hole during the final round, trailing by three shots. And it became a big deal that he laid up, even though he, and he lost the thing. And

• 23:27Bill Simmons?

  they were like, this is an idea. What if we could create a movie around a guy who never lays up? And they go, he's like Shelton said, his flaws, he can't lay up. He's incapable of laying up. And, uh, and that was it. And then the other thing was trying to figure out, how do we make this a blue collar golf movie? Not like a nouveau riche golf movie, which is usually how people attack golf. They usually do like the outsider who doesn't fit in.

• 23:52Speaker 04

  Well, the mid nineties for sure. That was a much larger task than, than now. Golf's more accessible now. I'm not going to, you know, go through a whole version of why.

• 24:03Bill Simmons?

  It's definitely more diverse than it was.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  It's more diverse and more accessible than it was in 1996.

• 24:07Bill Simmons?

  So the, the, the 12 had roots in ironically Gary McCord at the 1986 St. Jude FedEx.

• 24:14Speaker 06

  Who could forget that one?

• 24:18Bill Simmons?

  Needed a birdie to win the tournament, Jacko. Um, kept reaching the hazard and, uh, and ended up, I think with a 15.

• 24:27Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 24:28Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, they filed that one away as well. Uh, Rene Russo.

• 24:36Bill Simmons?

  I made this case on a previous podcast.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  I like Craig's reaction when he just said, hey, Russo, he didn't know where you were going.

• 24:45Bill Simmons?

  Best 1990s of any actress. I made this case in a previous rewatch.

• 24:49Speaker 05

  The best 90s of any actress.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  Oh, my goodness.

• 24:51Speaker 05

  Julia Roberts?

• 24:52Speaker 04

  This is a hot take right here.

• 24:53Bill Simmons?

  From 89 to 99, Major League, Lethal Weapon 3, Free Jack, In the Line of Fire, Outbreak, Get Shorty, Tin Cup, Ransom, Lethal Weapon 4, Thomas Crown Affair.

• 25:05Speaker 05

  Lot of doubles.

• 25:06Bill Simmons?

  Julia has like two homers and outs. Just like, just, just double plays and, and K's.

• 25:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, I texted Bill, watching it the second time, I texted both of you saying, one of you's gonna need to kind of describe to me the Rene Russo case.

• 25:21Bill Simmons?

  There's been a couple era dependent actresses that I don't know if have translated different eras. So she's in her 40s.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  She's a little bit in the Sean Young category.

• 25:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you didn't get the Sean Young thing either.

• 25:32Speaker 05

  No.

• 25:33Bill Simmons?

  She's a little older in this movie than during the beginning of her run, but she was like a model in her 20s and converted to being an actress.

• 25:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:40Bill Simmons?

  And just was in everything. I think her superpower was always she could connect with whoever she was with in a movie, but felt attainable to basically anyone in the movie. One of those? House loves her.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  I'd love her.

• 25:53Speaker 05

  You're in.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  And I think what you just said is absolutely on the money. And I think that this movie could have been a disaster. Like, part of the challenge with the rom part of it, the romantic part of it, is like, we're using sensibilities. My, my man Kevin Costner has his hands on her with, within the first.

• 26:13Bill Simmons?

  He's a little handsy.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  15 minutes of having known her, but there is a magnetism that, that is, is apparent. And there is, there is a connection between the two of them. And I believed it right away.

• 26:25Bill Simmons?

  Jacko. Can you think of another actress who could have romanced in a movie? Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, Pierce Brosnan, Mel Gibson, John Travolta, and Dustin Hoffman?

• 26:36Speaker 06

  That's a murderer's row.

• 26:38Bill Simmons?

  What a talent.

• 26:38Speaker 06

  That's a murderer's row. That's a tough one. No, not off the top of my head. No, no, I can't think of one.

• 26:43Bill Simmons?

  She was like, Cruz, too big of a mountain to climb. Can't do it. I gotta draw the line at Travolta. That's, that's as far as I'll go. But you love Rene Russo, too.

• 26:53Speaker 06

  I do, yeah. Maybe Craig is too young to appreciate Rene Russo. Man, he had to be our age, like, you know.

• 26:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's not, her type, I don't know if, if that exists now. Who's the Rene Russo of right now?

• 27:04Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. She looks great in the.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  She's ubiquitous. She was ubiquitous in this era.

• 27:07Bill Simmons?

  She was.

• 27:08Speaker 04

  So who else? Like, who has this, this number of fits? Is it Jennifer Lawrence? Would this, like, you know, that would be.

• 27:14Bill Simmons?

  If they make this movie now, Jennifer Lawrence is the sports psychologist.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  I would go in that direction, personally.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would prefer, I would love Jennifer Lawrence to be in this movie.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  See money. See money.

• 27:25Speaker 06

  Poor Rene Russo.

• 27:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, hold on to your seat for this quote. I'll give you two choices for who said it. It's either Jacko or Costner. Ron Casbrods, and I say brods as a term endearment. A girl who can hang with guys and make everybody feel like they have a chance even when they don't. And Costner's like, that's why Rene Russo is great. Do we need to bring brods back into the lexicon? I'm gonna say no.

• 27:50Speaker 04

  It feels like it's now taken on a little bit of a derogatory feel.

• 27:54Bill Simmons?

  I would say so.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  It feels like.

• 27:55Speaker 06

  I would never refer to women like that, Bill. I can't believe you put me as one of the possible choices for that.

• 28:00Bill Simmons?

  I like when Costner's like, and I say brods as a term of endearment. Okay. Speaking of endearment, Don Johnson.

• 28:09Bill Simmons?

  As you know, one of my all-time favorites. At the tail end of his, Miami Vice is 84, this is 96. He's starting to move. He's gonna be in Nash Bridges soon on CBS.

• 28:22Bill Simmons?

  Good friends with with Don Johnson and Costner, good friends in real life. Johnson was supposed to be Elliot Ness in The Untouchables and couldn't do it because of Miami Vice. And Costner got the job and Costner's career took off. They stayed friends. I thought he was a really believable PGA golfer. The hair, the demeanor, the way he carries himself, the accent, it's it's just, he nailed it.

• 28:46Speaker 04

  Impeccable. And and I love the the wardrobe choices as well, like, super on point. Some of the research I saw suggested that it was supposed to be Alec Baldwin in the first place. But they had some pregnancy difficulty. Kim Basinger was their first kid.

• 29:02Bill Simmons?

  You're stepping in a very important category called casting what ifs. And it's just a complete breach of the podcast.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  Oh, I I misunderstood.

• 29:09Bill Simmons?

  Craig knows.

• 29:10Speaker 04

  We're talking about. Host and I are.

• 29:12Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna keep it in, says a cautionary tale to future hosts.

• 29:15Speaker 04

  Lay up next time.

• 29:16Bill Simmons?

  Lay up, House. Don't go for it. Don't go for the green and two with a casting what if in the opening.

• 29:21Speaker 05

  Don Johnson looked great. The infinity visor looked great.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Amazing.

• 29:25Speaker 05

  I honestly thought he was pretty likeable, chill guy throughout the whole movie. They kind of just add that one scene to turn him into a dick.

• 29:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was like the studio gave him the note. You had to find some reason to root against him.

• 29:36Speaker 05

  I was kind of rooting for him halfway through. I like this.

• 29:39Bill Simmons?

  Jaddie Lawrence.

• 29:40Speaker 04

  Like, why did he go out of his way to go find Roy to be his caddy? He's that's a solid. He's not treating Roy as a dick.

• 29:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:48Speaker 04

  I mean, you know, yes, it is, he's saying be my caddy, but there's a method to the madness. He knows Roy's in in in tough straits.

• 29:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 04

  And also, why would he accommodate his girlfriend going to Roy for lessons? Is it ever apparent that is that a behind the back thing?

• 30:05Speaker 05

  It's it's one of the most.

• 30:06Bill Simmons?

  It's a big nitpick.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  Inexplicable love triangles in movie history.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  Movie history.

• 30:11Speaker 05

  I get.

• 30:11Bill Simmons?

  Sports movie history.

• 30:12Speaker 05

  Sports movie history. I I understand, I guess, like, if if she's not telling. Don Johnson, who she's getting lessons from, that's fine. But once he finds out him just allowing that to continue after he watched Costner put his hands all over her hip.

• 30:24Speaker 04

  He's there at the second lesson. That was the sec- we're supposed to believe that's the second lesson. They had a 12 minute first lesson. You hit one good ball. Lesson's over. Pay up, please. Second lesson. Oh, you're, I'm late. I'm 20 minutes late to the lesson. Let me see you swing. Oh, now let's talk about your personal life. Oh, I mean, you know, his hands are all over and then Don Johnson's there.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  He's spooning her. Costner is spooning her upright and Don Johnson goes, easy buddy.

• 30:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's the rare movie where the, the super handsy, inappropriate alcoholic guy is the hero.

• 30:57Speaker 06

  Can I ask you a question that was just raised by something House said? Why didn't she just go to Don Johnson to learn to play golf?

• 31:04Bill Simmons?

  I had that in nitpicks as well.

• 31:05Speaker 04

  Anybody in his entire.

• 31:07Speaker 06

  Entourage, right?

• 31:08Speaker 04

  He is a PGA professional.

• 31:10Speaker 06

  He's like a major quality professional golfer.

• 31:12Speaker 04

  Right.

• 31:13Speaker 05

  Would you be upset if your wife went to Danny Heifetz for podcasting advice and you found out she was secretly meeting with him?

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  I'd be furious, especially if Heifetz was handsy.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  Well, part of the challenge for me also is why is she in Salome, Texas? What, what, what pushed her?

• 31:27Bill Simmons?

  Another.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  Or why is?

• 31:28Bill Simmons?

  House is taking three nitpicks and a casting one up off the board.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  Blending it all together. Why is David Sims dating a woman who lives in this random area of Texas?

• 31:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And what's her sports psychology business looking like in West Texas where like it's just a bunch of people work for driving?

• 31:42Speaker 05

  We're led to believe that David Sims is a top five golfer in the world, right?

• 31:45Speaker 04

  They give us that impression. He, he has the, he's the first round leader of the US Open.

• 31:49Speaker 05

  Right.

• 31:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Isn't he like flying from tournament to tournament every week?

• 31:52Speaker 05

  And he's dating this woman who has a tiny job in, outside of El Paso, Texas?

• 31:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  He's supposed to be from Houston.

• 31:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 04

  But why have a girlfriend in Salome?

• 32:03Speaker 05

  Cause he's a good guy.

• 32:05Bill Simmons?

  It's a good guy. Jaco knows how much I love Don Johnson because you were there as I forced you to watch Miami Vice episodes.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  Oh, I liked Miami Vice. You didn't force me, but yeah, you, you had all the Miami Vices recorded and you would play them over and over.

• 32:16Speaker 05

  That's one of the most controversial moments of the rewatchables is we did two episodes of Miami Vice on this show.

• 32:21Bill Simmons?

  We did a TV movie. Yeah. Controversial for who?

• 32:24Speaker 05

  All of them.

• 32:25Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was glorious.

• 32:26Speaker 06

  For movie fans everywhere.

• 32:27Bill Simmons?

  It was great. Uh, this movie has 35 PGA golfer cameos.

• 32:33Bill Simmons?

  Including a very young skinny Phil Mickelson, who we'll get to later. The walrus Craig Stadler, Johnny Miller, Corey Pavin, Fred Couples, Peter Jacobson. All the CBS people are there and House's guy, George Michael, the Sports Machine. Do you know what Sports Machine was?

• 32:48Speaker 05

  I don't.

• 32:49Bill Simmons?

  So it was a half hour sports highlight show that started in House's neck of the woods, DC.

• 32:54Speaker 05

  NBC Channel 4.

• 32:55Bill Simmons?

  And they started syndicating and it was Sunday night and they would just show highlights of, and it was basically like SportsCenter or ESPN or this. And I used to like the Sports Machine because they would show wrestling every once in a while. They'd be like, let's go to the.

• 33:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, George was an early.

• 33:10Bill Simmons?

  He was in.

• 33:10Speaker 05

  Adopter of wrestling and I think his show preceded SportsCenter.

• 33:15Bill Simmons?

  He might have even, you're right. He might have been ahead of it. But he would, they'd do like blue, it's like now bloopers and you just see like a baseball park getting hitting the balls.

• 33:24Speaker 05

  It's great TV.

• 33:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was great.

• 33:26Speaker 05

  In the eighties?

• 33:27Bill Simmons?

  It was like, we were starving for any sports. So it was great to see him. A couple golf things from this movie. Just a pure feeling is a well struck golf shot. I agree with that. You can play golf, you can shoot a 110. But those two are just like, it's just perfect.

• 33:46Speaker 05

  Keeps you coming back.

• 33:47Bill Simmons?

  That's why you walk away.

• 33:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:49Bill Simmons?

  Sex and golf are the two things you don't have to be good at to enjoy.

• 33:55Speaker 05

  Not bad.

• 33:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. How about fantasy football? I would throw that in there.

• 33:59Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Cause at the beginning of fantasy football, you think you have a shot, just like on the first team.

• 34:03Bill Simmons?

  Like anybody can pick a fantasy football team.

• 34:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:05Bill Simmons?

  It's funny. Eating?

• 34:07Speaker 05

  Eating. You don't have to be good at eating?

• 34:09Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 34:10Speaker 05

  How do you, how is one good or bad?

• 34:12Bill Simmons?

  Like you could be a bad eater, can eat bad food.

• 34:15Speaker 05

  Well, I mean.

• 34:16Bill Simmons?

  Jacko, anything else you don't have to be good at to enjoy?

• 34:19Speaker 06

  Um, I can't think of anything off the top of my head. It's hard for me.

• 34:23Bill Simmons?

  I'll come back to you if you come up with one.

• 34:24Speaker 06

  All right, I'll, I'll think of that.

• 34:25Speaker 05

  What about pooping? Is that?

• 34:27Speaker 06

  I'm not sure that's, you can rate that. I'm not sure that's ratable. Like eating and pooping, I'm not sure there's rating.

• 34:32Speaker 05

  You can rate those.

• 34:34Speaker 06

  Can't be rated.

• 34:35Speaker 05

  All right.

• 34:36Bill Simmons?

  Greatness Courts Failure Romeo. Like that one. Good one for Josh Allen to remember.

• 34:42Speaker 05

  Philosophical golf lines.

• 34:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. That shot was a defining moment when a defining moment comes along. You define the moment where the moment defines you. I like that one as well. A $45 million budget made 75 million. Roger Ebert.

• 34:57Speaker 06

  Ooh, what's Roger think?

• 35:00Speaker 06

  Didn't love it.

• 35:01Bill Simmons?

  Three stars.

• 35:01Speaker 06

  Oh, really? Three stars.

• 35:03Bill Simmons?

  I think he liked Rene Russo. Uh, he said, Tin Cup is well-written. The dialogue is smart and fresh. And when Tin Cup and Molly are talking to each other, they savor the joy of language. The movie is strong in supporting characters. He likes story. He thought it was a little bloated, like Craig did. You know. It's, what was the one we did the other day that was 90 minutes? You were over the moon excited about it? Oh, we didn't do it. We were looking at a movie that was 90 minutes and you were like, 90 minutes? Aw, man, In-N-Out, that's what you need. Seagal's catalog Craig really enjoyed when we were doing, uh, like 92, 94.

• 35:38Speaker 06

  What did Siskel think of it?

• 35:42Bill Simmons?

  We've never mixed in Siskel. Siskel, Siskel has some hot takes. Siskel zagged in ways that gives him no credibility for the rewatchables. But, um, we're gonna take a break. And we're gonna go through the rewatchable scenes. We have a bunch of fun categories.

• 35:59Speaker 07

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• 36:07Speaker 07

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• 36:17Speaker 07

  Make this your most rewarding season ever with FanDuel. Age and location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. See FanDuel.com for eligibility. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

• 36:28Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Quince. Finding a decent piece of clothing can be a lot harder than finding a decent movie. But that was before Quince. Quince has staple pieces made from premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere. And everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It's the perfect place to start building a cozy fall outfit without any absurd markups. For instance, I love a good vest. They have a lightweight, down, packable puffer vest, which is an easy fall layer, although nobody loves layers more than Chris Ryan. Uh, you can throw it over a sweater, long sleeve, whenever you want to make an outfit feel a little more seasonal. Simple, classic, one of those pieces that works with pretty much everything that's already in your closet.

• 37:11Bill Simmons?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order, 365-day returns now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quinn's asked where you heard about them, let them know it's a rewatchables podcast. They would appreciate that. It's the best way to support the show. Coming back for the categories, Johnny, you remembered one thing.

• 37:32Speaker 04

  I did. I remembered one thing you don't have to be good at to enjoy, being a podcast guest.

• 37:39Speaker 04

  Great job on you, Johnny. Podcast cameos. I find, you know, it's not to be great at.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  The executive producer of the rewatchables for an episode.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  Executive producing this podcast.

• 37:49Bill Simmons?

  Most rewatchable scene, Molly's first lesson, when she's got all those devices. He does the poem about the golf swing, the explanation, the unfinished follow through. And then Roy's theory and a golf swing, gaining control of your life and letting go at the same time. You agree with that? You play a lot of golf.

• 38:07Speaker 04

  I love it. I love that whole, you know, 11 minutes or whatever it is, that interaction between the two of them. It's a wonderful introduction to who he is, where she's coming from. She, she arrives with nothing but question marks. Like, I'm like, what? Why is she dressed like that? She is super hot. Why does she find this guy? But.

• 38:29Bill Simmons?

  Why is she dressed like that? Why can't everyone dress like that?

• 38:32Speaker 04

  The chemistry.

• 38:34Bill Simmons?

  Chemistry is there.

• 38:35Speaker 04

  And.

• 38:36Speaker 05

  She takes, she hits one ball.

• 38:38Bill Simmons?

  That's the Rene Russo superpower, though. Always has great chemistry with whoever the leady man is.

• 38:43Speaker 04

  And I like.

• 38:44Bill Simmons?

  Like, when you can have chemistry with Travolta, you're really pulling it off. It's, it's not like an extensive list.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  I do like a lot of Costner's lines about golf. You can tell he's like a guy, the character of Roy. All he does is think about golf. He's, he's like weirdly philosophical and poetic for such kind of like a hillbilly. But, but you do buy it and, and it does reflect how people think about golf. It's the most frustrating and beautiful sport.

• 39:09Speaker 04

  That's the thing that Shelton and who was the other writer, Norville, Norville?

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 04

  And Gary, those guys are golf hit nuts. They're sickos. And that's, that's what came through. They used Costner, McAvoy as the, to, to be the voice that articulates that golf sicko.

• 39:27Bill Simmons?

  Roy Caddis for Sims. Very enjoyable scene. Great laying up versus going a conundrum. We establish that. We get the walrus Craig Stadler coming in hot, making bets. We get Phil Mickelson.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:40Bill Simmons?

  Young, making bets. How fucking funny was that? Talk about what's age the best. Phil Mickelson getting action on something. That was not the last time for Phil.

• 39:53Speaker 06

  Maybe that's where he got a taste for it.

• 39:56Bill Simmons?

  What's this gambling thing?

• 39:57Speaker 06

  The set of Tin Cup.

• 39:59Bill Simmons?

  I love when he says 13 years on the tour, you're still a pussy.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:03Bill Simmons?

  Great stuff. Sims fires him, then we get the sports machine in that section. Roy tries to qualify as another scene where he breaks all his clubs, uses the seven iron for the last seven holes, shoots 65.

• 40:13Speaker 05

  That would be a great real life tournament is if golfers had to pick one club and play a round against one another.

• 40:18Bill Simmons?

  What would your club be?

• 40:19Speaker 04

  People do that. And in fact, there is a tournament out there called the Tin Cup that you have to go play the whole thing with the seven iron.

• 40:26Speaker 05

  Oh, really?

• 40:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's out there.

• 40:28Bill Simmons?

  Would that be the club you picked?

• 40:30Speaker 04

  I under- the versatility of it, I personally would take a hybrid because I can putt with a hybrid and chip with the hybrid, but I understand.

• 40:37Bill Simmons?

  So you can drive with a hybrid?

• 40:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can, I can hit a hybrid off a tee decent enough.

• 40:42Bill Simmons?

  I love the seven iron.

• 40:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:44Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the things that keeps me coming back on golf courses.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:48Bill Simmons?

  Seven iron's great, great club. I like when he says, what was my best shot? Was it the seven iron on 12? Was it the seven iron on 13? He just keeps saying seven irons. Roy versus Sims, when they make the bet and Sims does the trick on him. And she says, why do men insist on measuring their dicks?

• 41:07Speaker 05

  Which I gotta say, that trick where, where Sims hits the ball down the road and outdrives McAvoy? That's kind of a main character. That's a protagonist thing to do, you know? I was like, that's a pretty cool move.

• 41:20Bill Simmons?

  Craig loves David Sims.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  He does.

• 41:22Speaker 05

  They should have gave that to McAvoy, you know?

• 41:23Speaker 04

  Sim stand over here.

• 41:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Roy qualifies with the, the double bogey blues, which wins the Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness, the word best needle drop. Jack, I was looking on the, on Spotify for the entire soundtrack.

• 41:38Speaker 06

  Tin Cup soundtrack had some bangers.

• 41:39Bill Simmons?

  You love the sex song, dude. We're doing sex right now. It's gonna be all night, isn't it? Like it's all night. I'm giving you some sex.

• 41:50Speaker 06

  Plus, there's another song where he's like, he tells her he loves her and he goes to the driving, his driving range and they have like a classic 90s montage thing. There was some music playing in that one. That was a good one, too.

• 42:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:00Speaker 06

  Couple of bangers on that soundtrack. I'm gonna look.

• 42:02Bill Simmons?

  Very mid 90s. I don't know how Sheryl Crow wasn't involved. Chris Isaak's in there at one point.

• 42:06Speaker 04

  Great point.

• 42:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the, the Roy getting laid song is called This Could Take All Night.

• 42:14Bill Simmons?

  We're doing some six. Take all that.

• 42:17Speaker 04

  He asked for a mulligan.

• 42:19Speaker 05

  Teed up this time. I don't know what that means.

• 42:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but did Roy like have what premature ejaculation issue?

• 42:25Speaker 04

  It seemed like it was an ED.

• 42:26Bill Simmons?

  She seemed like definitely disappointed.

• 42:30Speaker 06

  He took 12 shots that night, too.

• 42:31Bill Simmons?

  She was like, I just dumped this guy who makes six million a year is like the sixth golfer in the PGA.

• 42:37Speaker 05

  Roy Hackman's got whiskey dick every night.

• 42:38Bill Simmons?

  Six right now. Roy can't even get it up. What did I do? Roy hits the pelican. Enjoyable. How said he could get it through the door, but not at the pelican?

• 42:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, the distance, keeping it that low, the distance is tough.

• 42:50Speaker 04

  Carrying it on that line.

• 42:52Bill Simmons?

  Jacko was upset because he was worried the pelican was harmed in real life.

• 42:55Speaker 06

  I was hoping, I was hoping PETA was on set that day to make sure no, no pelicans were harmed in that filming.

• 43:01Bill Simmons?

  Roy shoots a 62. I think is my favorite part of the movie because it's incredible. Nance, all of a sudden it turns into like he's, you know, Nance doing the 86 Masters or something.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  But the most striking thing to me is the first time we see Nance because his voice is the exact same. I can detect no differences whatsoever between 1996 and 2025. And my mind and my brain, I've heard it so many. And then this young handsome fellow is like, hey, look at young Jim Nance.

• 43:32Bill Simmons?

  Hello, friends.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  So good.

• 43:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, plus him and Ventori. And I was, I mean, I was gonna do this Ford stage, the best I'll just do it now. The, the, the mid sea, mid 90s CBS golf coverage. They felt like the first time people had really figured out golf coverage correctly with that whole crew they had that led right into Tiger in 97. But that 96 Masters with Fado Nicholas, it was kind of the modern version of all this stuff.

• 43:59Speaker 04

  And, and the history that leads up to that is CBS. So CBS never did a US Open. That was like part of the ha ha, I think with this thing.

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Um, that they were, you know, it was CBS on the.

• 44:09Bill Simmons?

  Oh, true. Yeah, it would have been NBC.

• 44:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. CBS had the Masters.

• 44:13Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 44:13Speaker 04

  And Frank Turkinian is like the legendary guy in the truck. And he was so compelling in the, in the research. To Shelton and his team that I think they wrote in all of that activity in the booth. And that does sound set up, I think, a nice sort of narrative. It's like in your ear, those guys plus Nansen and Ventura.

• 44:36Speaker 05

  It's arguably why the movie works so well. The last hour is because of the CBS coverage. It feels like a real tournament.

• 44:41Bill Simmons?

  Also really ahead of its time in 96, like that sports movies were so conventional and it just felt like we were getting access to this world that I only knew on my square TV.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  I mean, even Happy Gilmore had Vern Lundquist and I'm realizing that, man, fictional golf tournaments with real professional, like sports media people covering it. I could, I could, we could make 10 of those a year. I'd watch them.

• 45:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's interesting, Vern Lundquist, not in this movie, but is in Happy Gilmore.

• 45:08Bill Simmons?

  Do you think he tried to double dip it? Or he was like.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  He was also in Happy Gilmore two next to Post Malone. Did you like that scene?

• 45:16Speaker 04

  It wasn't as memorable.

• 45:17Bill Simmons?

  Craig was not a fan of Happy Gilmore two.

• 45:18Speaker 05

  That one didn't stick.

• 45:20Bill Simmons?

  I really like in the 62, oh no, it's coming up next. My bad. Roy's final round. Some couple of really good, they have a nice wide shot putt when he makes that long one on 10. And they go wide. I love when sports movies go wide. They never do it. They always want to do these quick cuts and keep close. And they go wide. You see him sizing up the putt. You see Sims over watching him and the caddy, and then he drains it. You see Cheech Marin in the background in the gallery. It really feels like a, like a tournament.

• 45:51Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I have to imagine one reason why it works to make golf movies is because you can just, you can have everybody in the audience sitting in the same place and you can just have Costner taking shots.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  Trying to make these things until he makes it.

• 46:02Speaker 05

  You can do 20 of them. One of them will work and it, it films perfectly still. It's not like basketball or football. You got to reset everything. It's physical. It's demanding. You can just go over and over until he hits these 20 foot putts.

• 46:13Bill Simmons?

  It's really good. It all sets up 18.

• 46:17Bill Simmons?

  Rene Russo says, I've never been with the man who went for it.

• 46:22Bill Simmons?

  Cecil never been with the man who got whiskey dick first time they hooked up.

• 46:29Bill Simmons?

  Why does, why does the eagle roll off the greenhouse? Let's do the nitpick now.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  So it's, let's set it though. It's, it's like 230, 240 to the green.

• 46:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:38Speaker 05

  He's, he pulls out a three wood.

• 46:40Bill Simmons?

  Which is a realistic distance for a three wood for a professional golfer.

• 46:43Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 46:44Speaker 05

  It's over the water.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  It will just then like to further set the context. It's a persimmon head on a steel shaft, like that era, super authentic. Like the modern technology didn't exist. Like the, the golf clubs that exist now are, are like rocket ships compared to what those guys were playing with in, in that era.

• 47:03Bill Simmons?

  Do golf clubs now, the ball would stop when it landed? Or it does not?

• 47:07Speaker 04

  Well, this is the thing, let, let Craig set it up. I mean, what are you saying?

• 47:11Speaker 05

  Well, so yeah, three wood, 237, it's got to carry 230. That's the problem. You can't roll 230, like you, you have to carry 235. And yeah, a club like that, I mean, that thing's flying off the green. I mean, with a wood like that, that ball stays low and it flies. You would need real loft and spin to have that thing stick like it was and roll backwards.

• 47:31Speaker 04

  So that the.

• 47:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it feels like it would bounce and keep going and roll off the green, right?

• 47:35Speaker 04

  Makes no sense whatsoever. The, the behavior of the ball on the green is utterly implausible. It's a pure fiction. It doesn't make any sense. It defies the laws of physics. That club coming in at the trajectory that was coming in, and then they, what they show on camera, they could have made a different choice. Is the ball coming in from a height and landing softly enough? There's no chance, there's no spin on that. It's not possible. And that's the two, first two shots that he hits, both spin backwards. It's, it's ludicrous.

• 48:06Bill Simmons?

  The only parallel would be the, uh, the, the 16 maybe on Masters? When some of, when they put the pin in a certain place and sometimes the ball can roll backwards. But those are like high chip shots that bounce down.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, 15 they shave.

• 48:22Bill Simmons?

  A wood is going straight and long and hard.

• 48:25Speaker 05

  Also, can I do a picking nits now about this scene?

• 48:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we, I have a couple more. We gotta do it now, I think, cause this is, we're diving into it.

• 48:32Speaker 05

  Earlier in the movie, he hits his seven iron, 227.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  Well, now it did bounce and roll out.

• 48:38Speaker 05

  But so you're telling me he hits the seven iron two twenty, hits the three wood two thirty?

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Great point. Well, there's we will the.

• 48:44Speaker 05

  The wind, the act of God with the wind. Should have pulled out the seven iron for one of them.

• 48:48Speaker 06

  This is the wringer difference. You're not going to get this kind of level of sports analysis on another movie podcast. You're just not.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  I mean, you shouldn't have hit the five iron.

• 48:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 06

  All you cinephiles out there, I love this sports.

• 48:58Speaker 04

  Seven iron two ten, five iron should be a two twenty carry.

• 49:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 49:02Speaker 04

  Two twenty five carry.

• 49:04Bill Simmons?

  My other nitpick. So he asks for the ball again. He refuses to drop in the drop zone.

• 49:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:08Bill Simmons?

  Which is ludicrous. Even if he's like, I can hit this. Try to win the US Open, then come back after and try to hit it.

• 49:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:16Bill Simmons?

  You have to do it now in the biggest moment of your life where there's like, I don't know, what was the prize money back then? It had to have been a million dollars.

• 49:23Speaker 04

  Prize money, whatever it was.

• 49:25Bill Simmons?

  When you win the US Open, you're on the tour like forever, right?

• 49:27Speaker 04

  It's life defining. It's life altering. It changes everything about the entire rest of your life.

• 49:32Speaker 06

  For ten cup, two hundred bucks would have changed his life. And I guarantee the purse was more than two hundred bucks.

• 49:37Speaker 05

  And he was losing like a million dollars every time he hit it into the water.

• 49:39Bill Simmons?

  Right. So he, he, for some reason, and then the same thing happens. And then he falls apart. He starts in the water and the crowd, the third time he hits in the water, they cut through the crowd and the crowd's like, oh. And we were saying, we feel like this would be like watching Scatman Crothers get murdered in The Shining level reaction by the crowd. I don't think anyone's making a noise after the second one.

• 50:04Speaker 05

  This would be like being in the stadium when Paul George snapped his leg in half. It would be the most awkward, quiet environment.

• 50:10Bill Simmons?

  I think by the third shot, the crowd is staring in horror.

• 50:17Bill Simmons?

  Nobody is saying anything. You can hear a pin drop and it's probably the most awkward sporting event you can go to. It's my guess.

• 50:23Speaker 04

  Let me ask this because, well, I'll just ask it. I don't know. Do you think that fan behavior in nineteen ninety six is qualitatively different than fan behavior in twenty twenty five?

• 50:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think, well, at a golf, I guess, in normal things, they'd be holding their stupid phones, right? But in golf, you can't have your phone. No, I think it'd be around the same.

• 50:45Speaker 04

  In most golf.

• 50:46Bill Simmons?

  Because the Norman thing, we, we had this in 96 with Norman and the crowd is dead. If you go back and watch that, last four rounds, the crowd is like just complete deer in the headlights. Which is really rare when you can get an entire group of people to just have deer in the headlights.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  The reason I ask that, and I, as you're talking, like, I think that the, a golf crowd in 1996 would have maintained that, like, decorum, the reverence, you know, that whole thing of being, you're in a special place, it's a special tournament, people are not going to be yelling mashed potatoes or whatever. In 2025, the crowd would have, I think, turned, like, people would have been angry, people, I like, I, I, the, the, like, and been vocal, like, you know, using bad words.

• 51:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:30Speaker 04

  At, at anybody.

• 51:31Bill Simmons?

  What the fuck are you doing?

• 51:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, phones are out, people are going live on Instagram, people are laughing at him, he can't recover. At least in the 90s, it becomes lore, it's like stoic that he does this and he almost becomes like a, you know, some figure that you can look back on and be like, wow, that's the guy who stuck to his guns. 2025, he's getting destroyed.

• 51:49Speaker 04

  It would have been, it would have been a national, like, Twitter moment.

• 51:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 04

  A unifying moment on Twitter where everybody's like, what is this moron doing?

• 51:56Speaker 05

  Like, it's just that, and he's a laughing stock for the rest of his career.

• 51:59Bill Simmons?

  What's the worst thing you ever saw in person at a sporting event?

• 52:01Speaker 05

  Ooh.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  Oh, boy, you're putting me on the spot here.

• 52:04Bill Simmons?

  Um, I like putting Jacko on the spot from completely unprepared for no reason. I'm trying to think what I've seen, been to a lot of good games, I can't remember seeing something that, um, just completely flummoxed everybody. I haven't been to any of those, uh, you know what it would be?

• 52:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so this is a good one, I went to the J R Smith timeout game.

• 52:26Speaker 04

  Oh, sure.

• 52:27Bill Simmons?

  Now, the Warriors fans were excited for that, but I guess that was the closest of people were just like, wait, what, what, what just happened? So I think it would just be like that for five minutes. Couple other things about this scene. Russo is great in this scene. Cause you're thinking about the, the shots and the things, but they, she's just really funny in the way she's like, every shot is just running through her whole body and then she starts laughing like a crazy person and I don't know. She's just great. And the announcer reactions are unbelievable.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:56Bill Simmons?

  The, the guys in the booth, Nance and, and Ventori, their reactions.

• 53:00Speaker 05

  I thought that was the most. I actually thought that was realistic.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  I agree. I think they gave her a full, I, I, I think that might've even been ad libbed. I don't think there was like a script for that.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, just completely flabbergasted.

• 53:11Bill Simmons?

  Lose their minds. It's great. Usually those are bad scenes in sports movies, not this time. I love the guys jumping in the lake. I like when she says, no one's gonna remember the open five years from now. They're gonna remember the 12, it was immortal. I'm like, she's right.

• 53:27Speaker 05

  I love you.

• 53:30Bill Simmons?

  And then he says, nice par, David, as he's carrying her away. Which you thought could have meant one of two things.

• 53:35Speaker 05

  I never even considered that it was about him paring the hole because as House pointed out earlier today, I, we didn't even see Sims finish the hole.

• 53:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we have no idea what he did.

• 53:43Speaker 05

  No idea. So I guess he parred, but I thought he was making a joke like he got a birdie by, by getting Rene Russo.

• 53:49Bill Simmons?

  And David Sims got parred. I like the double entendre for that.

• 53:52Speaker 05

  Like you settled once again for the woman.

• 53:55Bill Simmons?

  So is this a better movie if he eagles 18 and gets a minus 10 and the movie goes that way? And that's what we've had for the last 29 years?

• 54:03Speaker 05

  No, this is a good ending, I think.

• 54:04Speaker 06

  I agree. I prefer this ending.

• 54:05Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, Jacko?

• 54:06Speaker 06

  No, I think it's just a cliche, typical cliche sports movie then. And this one, I think, I like that they went in a different direction.

• 54:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 05

  Because on the first watch, it's agonizing.

• 54:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:15Speaker 05

  You have no idea this is coming. I mean, everything, every movie you've ever watched leads you to believe.

• 54:18Bill Simmons?

  That's why I wanted you to watch it again, cause I was like, oh, when he sees it the second time.

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Second time around, you're like, this is kinda awesome. This guy rocks.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  So what's your most rewatchable scene?

• 54:27Speaker 04

  I I stand by the beginning because I just think that it sets everything up about who he is and there's enough mystery with her and I I'm a I'm a in that sucker for the golf sicko stuff.

• 54:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:42Speaker 04

  So he does the whole poetry thing and then he's like, well, the other alternative is grip it and rip it and he drops out, let the big dog eat. I'm on that stall right in my, that's in my wheel, Joe House wheelhouse. So that's, that's my favorite.

• 54:54Bill Simmons?

  What do you got?

• 54:54Speaker 05

  I'll go, I mean, the whole last hour, the second we get to the open, the music starts playing, you get the drone shots, but a, a, a smaller scene.

• 55:00Speaker 04

  Not drone, 1996.

• 55:02Speaker 05

  You're right, helicopter shots.

• 55:05Speaker 05

  The one part we didn't mention that I loved is a smaller scene within that is when he first gets to the US Open and he has the shanks and he's warming up with everybody. That, that is the worst shank I think I've, I mean, he is hozzling those balls literally backwards.

• 55:19Bill Simmons?

  We, this is coming up in a different category.

• 55:21Speaker 05

  I can't believe.

• 55:22Speaker 04

  House has some thoughts on that.

• 55:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I like when he shoots the 62 and I, I just basically liked the last 40 minutes of the movie.

• 55:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:29Bill Simmons?

  Until the last five minutes, which shouldn't exist, but we'll talk about that later. What's the most 1996 thing about this movie?

• 55:37Bill Simmons?

  We already talked about Young Jim Nance.

• 55:39Speaker 05

  Man.

• 55:40Bill Simmons?

  David Sims is sponsored by Nissan and Infiniti and I'm not even sure, like, do those, are those golf sponsors? Maybe in the mid 90s they were?

• 55:48Speaker 04

  I mean, car sponsors for sure. Like, you know, that, that's a very.

• 55:51Bill Simmons?

  Now it'd be like Rivian?

• 55:53Speaker 04

  Well, it's Genesis. There's, there's literally a tournament in here in Los Angeles, California.

• 55:57Bill Simmons?

  You mentioned Roy's Walkman.

• 55:58Speaker 04

  BMW, we just watched one, yeah.

• 56:00Bill Simmons?

  Roy's Walkman is very 96. The Fuji film blimp? They make Fuji film anymore?

• 56:06Speaker 05

  No chance.

• 56:09Bill Simmons?

  The, I think that I like this girl 90s music driving range montage where it's like, I think I'm in love with her. It's just, it just was gone by the 2000s. He's reading Ring magazine at one point. I don't know if anyone's read that in the 21st century. They probably read it online. Rene Russo's hair, it's like that Jennifer Aniston Friends year one kind of whatever. Somebody says the line, look, it's Lee Jansen and Billy Mayfair, excitedly.

• 56:42Bill Simmons?

  But my winner is Craig Stadler's clothes and Craig Stadler.

• 56:46Speaker 05

  Clothes in general across the board. Also, I think everybody looks great in this movie. I hope that style comes back in golf.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  It's not that far away. We got some pleated pants.

• 56:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  The skinny guys in the pleated pants, like Costner looks great.

• 56:58Speaker 05

  Looks great. Big, white, like the straight leg pleated pants. Who's the best dressed golfer right now to you, House?

• 57:05Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 57:06Bill Simmons?

  Oh, boy.

• 57:06Speaker 05

  I thought Ludwig Oberg looked great at the Masters.

• 57:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I like, um, I like some of the Jay Lindberg that, um, that, that my man Victor Hovland wears, even though sometimes they put him, it's a little clowny, but I'm a sucker for Ralph Lauren. So I've always been a Billy Ho Ho guy, Billy Horschel in the Ralph Lauren.

• 57:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:23Speaker 04

  He's my guy.

• 57:24Bill Simmons?

  What about Fleetwood?

• 57:26Speaker 04

  He's fine. It's Nike. It's like, you know, I think the Nike stuff's fine.

• 57:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's trying to throw him a bone. He's lost 17 tournaments this year.

• 57:32Speaker 04

  You want him to win something.

• 57:33Bill Simmons?

  Give him one win.

• 57:34Speaker 04

  Fair enough.

• 57:37Bill Simmons?

  Any other 96 things about this movie? I think they should have shoehorned in a couple more 96 music. Like where was Hootie and the Blowfish? How are they not in this? Sitting right there.

• 57:49Speaker 06

  It may have been too big for the Tin Cup soundtrack.

• 57:52Bill Simmons?

  You think they cheaped out?

• 57:54Speaker 06

  I think they couldn't pay for Vern Lundquist or Hootie and the Blowfish.

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Forty five million dollar budget.

• 57:58Speaker 06

  They only had forty four million dollars to play with.

• 58:01Bill Simmons?

  What's age the best? I have a bunch of stuff, but do you have a, a big one, House?

• 58:07Speaker 04

  Just, just Jim Nance. I mean, like I say, like the first time I hear his voice.

• 58:10Bill Simmons?

  God, get a fucking room with Jim Nance. Jesus. Awkward. Get a Winnebago with that guy. No, I have Jim Nance as well. What do you have, Craig?

• 58:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, Mickelson gambling. I mean, come on.

• 58:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:22Speaker 05

  The concept of getting the shanks. Also, sports therapy, sports mental kind of, you know.

• 58:27Bill Simmons?

  That was my biggest one. Way ahead of its time. This is like 10 years ahead of its time. I think this is one of the gimmicks in this movie. It was like, this is this kooky sports psychology lady. And it works for Roy. So then Stadler comes over and is like, hey, can we try that?

• 58:42Speaker 05

  He's pretty good in that scene. I thought he was pretty nasty.

• 58:44Speaker 06

  Really good.

• 58:45Speaker 04

  Stadler.

• 58:46Speaker 06

  Stadler was quality.

• 58:48Bill Simmons?

  I have a.

• 58:49Speaker 05

  Also, would you want her to be your therapist after watching McAvoy break down on 18?

• 58:54Speaker 06

  That's a great point.

• 58:55Speaker 05

  You come, hey, I saw what you did to McAvoy. You broke his brain. I'd love to get that.

• 58:58Bill Simmons?

  Also, he is a premature ejaculator.

• 59:01Speaker 04

  He was tied for the lead of the US Open on the 18th hole.

• 59:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, I want the analysis of the woman that said, hit another one, hit another one.

• 59:10Bill Simmons?

  Just go for it, Roy.

• 59:11Speaker 05

  I'd like to see a year of McAvoy first before I pay his girlfriend.

• 59:14Speaker 04

  In her defense, immediately after he hits the first one in the water, she says, now go do the correct thing. Hit the layup. She does say it. So she, she, she keeps her creds, her psychology creds to me.

• 59:26Bill Simmons?

  Sports psychology, way ahead of its time. I had a couple more. Calling the driver the big dog and then screaming, let the big dog eat.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  Okay, I wanted to ask about that.

• 59:34Bill Simmons?

  That's been 30 years of, of people saying that.

• 59:36Speaker 05

  Did this movie invent that?

• 59:37Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 59:38Speaker 06

  I think so.

• 59:38Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 59:40Speaker 05

  What about Grippit and Ripit? Was that this movie?

• 59:42Bill Simmons?

  Very possible.

• 59:43Speaker 06

  Well, was Grippit and Ripit a John? I was wondering about that. Did John Daly come up with that? Or did this movie come up with it? Cause wasn't that John Daly's philosophy? And he's probably like three years before this, right?

• 59:53Bill Simmons?

  He preceded the movie.

• 59:54Speaker 06

  I think his thing was Grippit. I think that was in Sports Illustrated.

• 59:58Speaker 05

  See, that's one of the fun experiments, experiences for me going back and watching older movies is I hear these lines that sound cliche to me now. And I'm like, oh, let the big dog eat. And then me and my brothers-in-law were like, wait a minute, did they, did they come up with that phrase?

• 1:00:11Bill Simmons?

  I think they did.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  Pretty impressive.

• 1:00:13Bill Simmons?

  When I was at ESPN, the guy who ran sales was this guy, Ed Erhart, was, was old school, played golf with all the sponsors kind of guy. And he used to, his whole thing was Grippit and Ripit.

• 1:00:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:24Bill Simmons?

  And every time I, I loved him. Every time I saw, I was like, Grippit and Ripit, what do we got going? But he was just like one of those guys. That belongs to a different era. Like, nobody would say that now in a business setting. Would they?

• 1:00:38Speaker 05

  Let's bring it back.

• 1:00:39Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 1:00:40Speaker 05

  Also, the, the doctor riddle at the beginning of the movie is another riddle that I've heard my whole life. Was that popularized by this movie? Or has that been, or was that around?

• 1:00:48Bill Simmons?

  That, I don't know.

• 1:00:49Speaker 06

  Hey, that's, I think that was probably predated. I think that just might be a thing.

• 1:00:53Speaker 05

  An old famous.

• 1:00:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:00:55Bill Simmons?

  Couple more. Uh, we mentioned all the CBS production booth stuff. The sleek leather golf bags House and I were admiring, those have just gone, golf bags have just become gigantic and unwieldy and I don't understand what we're doing.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  Well, I think those bags were gigantic in their own right and heavy as F because.

• 1:01:15Bill Simmons?

  Is that what, that's why we don't have them anymore?

• 1:01:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, because whatever the materials they were using.

• 1:01:20Bill Simmons?

  Couple of small ones, any movie with a pawn shop involved, just like a pawn shop is always a win.

• 1:01:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Bill Simmons?

  I'm always excited to be in one in a movie.

• 1:01:28Speaker 04

  Salome, Texas, pawn shops and strip clubs. I mean, you know, we got.

• 1:01:33Bill Simmons?

  Any movie with a strip joint involved also win. Par fives on 18 where you have to carry the water just in general.

• 1:01:40Speaker 04

  Good, great.

• 1:01:40Bill Simmons?

  What is that, what's the best course that has a par five with water?

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  I mean, Torrey Pines is probably the most famous, you know, the north course there. I don't know, south course, whatever. I messed it up, it doesn't matter.

• 1:01:50Bill Simmons?

  Cheech Marin is the sidekick. Young Jimmy Roberts grilling Roy after round three. I'm surprised there weren't more fake, more real people in that scene.

• 1:02:01Speaker 04

  More journalists.

• 1:02:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Tom and I were there probably like, get out, Tom, fuck you.

• 1:02:07Bill Simmons?

  Lazy Deep West, Texas is a movie setting I was like, like.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 1:02:11Bill Simmons?

  Midnight Run has like a whole stretch of the movie in there. Varsity Blues is there, always works.

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  What was the armadillo budget for this movie, do you think?

• 1:02:17Bill Simmons?

  Was it the same armadillo or a family of armadillos?

• 1:02:20Speaker 04

  There was multiple armadillos in one scene, so they must have had, there must have been an armadillo wrangler.

• 1:02:27Bill Simmons?

  The tin cup jokes that came out of this movie is a what's age the best, anytime somebody melts down, Van De Veld was the most famous one. But anytime it happens in a tournament where somebody hits in the water lane, it's like, oh, here we go, tin cup. Nash Bridges, Don Johnson and Cheech Marin ended up on Nash Bridges on CBS for like a million years together. And then for what's age the best, this is actually segues into the Steven Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable story from the shoot that actually existed. You know about Steven Seagal shitting on himself?

• 1:02:58Speaker 04

  I do not.

• 1:02:59Bill Simmons?

  Got choked out by a stunt coordinator and think out for justice and allegedly shit on himself, denies that he shit on himself. Kyle Brand and I litigated for 20 minutes.

• 1:03:09Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:03:09Bill Simmons?

  So here's the story, they wanted to get all the pros to be extras, so they went to the PGA Pro Wives and offered them a banquet where they could meet Kevin Costner and Don Johnson, who were like in their primes. And all the wives and girlfriends were like, we want to meet, and so that all the pros ended up being in the movie for SAG minimum 600 bucks. Wow. That's a real story.

• 1:03:32Bill Simmons?

  We'll take one more break and then we got the Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink, which is a very important Joe House category. That's next.

• 1:03:40Speaker 08

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• 1:04:25Bill Simmons?

  All right, House, the Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food or Drink.

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  I mean, it's the most obvious one. They go to the Waffle House in between rounds. And, you know, the folks, everybody, both Rene Russo and the other lady suggest, why don't we go somewhere else? We got some money. Let's go somewhere a little fancier. And Roy is adamant, nope, we're staying right here. I'm a Waffle House guy. This is where I belong.

• 1:04:52Bill Simmons?

  It's a secretly important tin cup scene.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  It is.

• 1:04:54Bill Simmons?

  It's like, no, we're not going to Steakhouse. We're going to the fucking Waffle House. I made the mistake asking House what his order would have been with the crew. And as Jack O can attest, it was a 45-second answer. The pork chop, eggs.

• 1:05:06Speaker 04

  He had it right, ready to go.

• 1:05:08Bill Simmons?

  Hasbro's mother of the cover.

• 1:05:09Speaker 04

  There was no thought needed.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  What are you talking about? There was a waffle for dessert.

• 1:05:12Speaker 04

  Waffle for dessert?

• 1:05:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  Can I throw an honorable mention in for chasing bourbon with liquid antacid?

• 1:05:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, what was that?

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  The hell was that?

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  Maloxin whiskey. That's a good one.

• 1:05:22Speaker 05

  I didn't even know that there was an acid drink. And he was just going back and forth.

• 1:05:27Speaker 04

  Slugging it back and forth. Yeah.

• 1:05:28Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like something.

• 1:05:28Speaker 04

  That's true to the era, though. The Malox in a bottle. I still drink Pepto out of a bottle.

• 1:05:35Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 1:05:36Speaker 04

  I'll drink Pepto Bismol out of a bottle. I have a giant pink bottle in a closet and under certain circumstances, depends on, you know, like an Indian food dinner night, right? Like, like, like as a precautionary measure? No. Right now.

• 1:05:51Speaker 06

  Indian food in a Pepto Bismol chaser?

• 1:05:53Speaker 04

  To get ahead of it? Yes, no, at night, I'm way, you wake up, I'm like, oh, you know, I gotta calm things down. Glug, glug from the, straight from the bottle, right back to bed. It's awesome. Right back to bed. You wake up, glug, back to sleep. Yeah, cuz I've been awoken because of like, you know, the acid reflux, whatever, you know. I like spicy.

• 1:06:12Bill Simmons?

  House keeps eating past the point when you should stop eating and then comedy.

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  House doesn't lay up at the dinner table. It's an important point.

• 1:06:17Bill Simmons?

  Not lay up.

• 1:06:18Speaker 06

  Welcome to the rewatchables brought to you by Pepto Bismol.

• 1:06:21Bill Simmons?

  Right. We're giving them a free sponsor here.

• 1:06:25Bill Simmons?

  The great Shaq Gordon Award, most cinematic shot, that Roy, that wide shot on Roy's, Roy's putt on 10. I really like. Dennis thieves Benihana where it seems to in location. Jacko voted for the golden tassel, the strip joint. Good wide shot, but it's, it's gotta be the 18th, the water.

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:46Bill Simmons?

  Which you said was like a course in Houston?

• 1:06:49Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:06:49Bill Simmons?

  That they kinda rejiggered?

• 1:06:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:06:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Speaker 04

  I don't even think they rejiggered it. I mean, you know, they, the hole exists and you can play that golf hole. I think it's a par four.

• 1:06:58Bill Simmons?

  Chess Rockwell Brock Lenders were for best character name. Roy McAvoy is really good.

• 1:07:02Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:07:02Bill Simmons?

  That's like you have that name and you're just like, all right, it's a golf movie. The guy's name's Roy McAvoy.

• 1:07:07Speaker 04

  Funny story from Nance, my guy, my guy Nance.

• 1:07:10Bill Simmons?

  Your guy.

• 1:07:11Speaker 04

  He had in his head as Rory McIlroy rose ascended to be careful cuz he had Roy McAvoy in his life. Way before he had Rory McIlroy in his life.

• 1:07:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  And he confesses that he had to be careful early on as Rory ascended. I love, I love Nance.

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  House gets a flex category. So I'm, I'm giving it, I'm giving, you created a category during this movie.

• 1:07:38Bill Simmons?

  And it's called the, uh, their fucking category for, we're watching this. There's this moment with, uh, with, with Molly and, uh, and Roy. When she comes back for the second lesson and there's some body language stuff and House is like, is there a rewatchables category, the moment in the movie when you know the two characters are gonna fuck? And I'm like, now it is.

• 1:08:04Bill Simmons?

  So it's the, oh, they're fucking, I don't know, we may, we gotta workshop the title a little bit, but, um.

• 1:08:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. When he takes her to the river and he's licking her hand.

• 1:08:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I'm sorry. So it was when she stops by the trailer. That's when it was. My bad. I got it wrong.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  To me, it was.

• 1:08:17Bill Simmons?

  When he stops, when she stops by her trailer, his trailer, House is like, is there a category?

• 1:08:23Speaker 04

  Because.

• 1:08:23Bill Simmons?

  To commensurate this?

• 1:08:24Speaker 04

  She came to the trailer ostensibly to apologize for not giving him the correct sort of therapeutic direction.

• 1:08:31Bill Simmons?

  After he spilled his heart there.

• 1:08:32Speaker 04

  He spills his heart and she has a weird reaction and she calls up some other friend psychologist who obviously gives her terrible advice. Or she ignores the advice and goes to his trailer to apologize. And I was like, that's it. He, that is, it is game on.

• 1:08:46Bill Simmons?

  I was thinking that would have been a good one to have for previous movies. We've done like Basic Instinct.

• 1:08:51Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:51Bill Simmons?

  Where they're in the car and she's like, do you smoke shooter? He's like, not anymore. It's like, yes, you do. And it's like, ah, they're fucking.

• 1:09:00Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna workshop the title though. The, uh, Butch's girlfriends award, Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What did you have, Craig?

• 1:09:09Speaker 05

  I, I, this movie has no lesson. There's like nothing to take away from this movie, but maybe that's the point, but like, there's nothing to really learn. He doesn't learn. I, he says that at the end. But I don't know, sports movies, like half the part of a sports movie is you come away with it with a lesson, right?

• 1:09:24Bill Simmons?

  The lesson is don't lay up.

• 1:09:26Speaker 05

  Is it?

• 1:09:27Bill Simmons?

  Isn't it?

• 1:09:28Speaker 05

  He ruined his life.

• 1:09:29Bill Simmons?

  Or, or he's now immortal.

• 1:09:32Speaker 04

  He, he, he did qualify for next year's US Open already.

• 1:09:34Bill Simmons?

  Qualify for the open and as House pointed out, when we're watching it today, he probably made $10 million in endorsements.

• 1:09:42Bill Simmons?

  Like he made, like Hooters is like there in 1996, Hooters is like, how much?

• 1:09:46Speaker 05

  Yeah. Pepto Bismol. It's like, don't shit yourself.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  He's the people's champion.

• 1:09:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He, he takes John Daly's territory immediately. Um.

• 1:09:57Bill Simmons?

  That's, that would be my only counter, but I think you're probably right.

• 1:09:59Speaker 05

  The only other thing I had was, uh, just for time, the entire stripper storyline. He owed her money, giving her the deed of the

• 1:10:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we, it's an easy cut.

• 1:10:08Speaker 05

  Lose that 15 minutes.

• 1:10:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, easy cut.

• 1:10:10Speaker 06

  Can I get, can I get a vote?

• 1:10:12Bill Simmons?

  Jacko, you, I have a spot for you in the rundown. Do you get to do your, your thing now?

• 1:10:16Speaker 06

  Well, I just think

• 1:10:17Bill Simmons?

  This is for your weekly of the film.

• 1:10:18Speaker 06

  I think the ex-wife, I, I'm sure she's a lovely woman, that actress, but she was too old to be Kevin Costner's ex-wife. We Googled her and she was 56 at the time of this movie and Costner's like 40.

• 1:10:29Speaker 05

  56?

• 1:10:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 05

  The stripper?

• 1:10:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Bill Simmons?

  Was it ex-wife or ex-girlfriend?

• 1:10:32Speaker 05

  Ex-girlfriend.

• 1:10:33Speaker 06

  Oh, ex-girlfriend, okay, ex-girlfriend, but she, I don't think it was plausible that she was gonna be a love interest of Kevin Costner.

• 1:10:39Speaker 05

  And they're, yeah, that, that whole thing.

• 1:10:40Bill Simmons?

  Maybe it was like a Jason Momoa, Lisa Bonet type thing.

• 1:10:44Speaker 06

  And I made the joke when we watched it where I said, I think she started stripping at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club in Dallas.

• 1:10:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 1:10:53Speaker 06

  And then moved west to West Texas.

• 1:10:57Speaker 06

  I apologize to that actress. So I'm sure is a lovely woman in real life and still with us, according to Google. So.

• 1:11:02Bill Simmons?

  Thank God. That wasn't your weekly of the film. You had a take on the, uh, Roy McAvoy.

• 1:11:07Speaker 06

  Another, that's another week. I hate to, this is a fine movie. I hate to shit on it, but in the beginning, Roy McAvoy is philosophical and he's quoting Carl Sandburg and he's, has all these things about nod to the gods and the earth and all these things. And then later, when he qualifies for the US Open or qualifies for the sectional and, and she's spouting things saying, well, you're somewhere between denial and delusion. And he's like, why are you using them big words? So it's like, is he like this really secret philosopher genius or is he a yokel? And they can't really ever decide.

• 1:11:37Bill Simmons?

  It just goes back and forth between those two worlds. I think it's a very fair point. House, your weekly of the film was that you don't feel like a golf pro would ever get the shanks.

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  Well, no, no, I could see a golf pro getting the shanks.

• 1:11:50Bill Simmons?

  Where you're hitting in their driving range sideways.

• 1:11:52Speaker 04

  And that, and the drive, the, the, the scene where there, where he's lost at his own range, where he and Romeo are trying to sort of sort it out. Him showing up at the mother effing US Open and getting up there and not having a solve, an immediate solution to, you know, one shank is fine. He has the nerves. It's, he's like, you know, the long shot that came out of nowhere. The whole thing is extraordinarily intimidating. They're in awe of all of it. Romeo's like, who's autograph can I get? Okay, one shank, fine. But the fact that it persists and he continues to proclaim that he can't fix it. Mother effer, you're supposed to be a ball striking golf pro.

• 1:12:37Speaker 04

  Like you never had anybody who had the shanks and you told them what to do to fix it? Like they just.

• 1:12:44Speaker 06

  The level of shanking was too much. Like what you say, like going right straight down the line and like hitting golfers feet. Like no, but no pro is ever gonna be that bad.

• 1:12:51Speaker 05

  It's actually quite hard to do that. I'm not even sure you could do that if you tried.

• 1:12:55Bill Simmons?

  My weak link is, uh, is really simple. The movie should end when he says, nice part, David.

• 1:13:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:02Bill Simmons?

  And I can't believe it goes on for like five more minutes. I don't know what they were thinking. I don't know where the studio was.

• 1:13:08Speaker 05

  One more time.

• 1:13:08Bill Simmons?

  And it was like, we gotta, we gotta close off this Cheech Marin strip joint head plot. And say, no, we actually don't. We don't. Nice part, David is a great ending. Let's get the fuck out.

• 1:13:20Speaker 05

  It's actually the best line in the movie.

• 1:13:21Bill Simmons?

  Great line. It's great. Let's, but let's, wide shot, camera back, we're gone.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  I'm not defending it. What I think is plausible is there was a possibility of a tin cup two. And the tin cup two could have revolved around, cause she makes a point of telling him, the next thing for you is Q school. And that could have been a storyline for tin cup two.

• 1:13:43Bill Simmons?

  Counter, counter.

• 1:13:45Speaker 04

  Go ahead.

• 1:13:45Bill Simmons?

  End the movie on nice part, David.

• 1:13:48Speaker 05

  You could have had Nancy.

• 1:13:49Speaker 04

  I'm not arguing.

• 1:13:50Speaker 05

  You could have had Nancy, and with that 12, he qualifies for the US Open next year. And then the sequel's set up.

• 1:13:55Bill Simmons?

  Will there be a next year? But whatever.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58Speaker 06

  Maybe Cheech Marin was really into tangoing and he's like, I wanted in my contract that I get to tango.

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  One scene, the only way I'll do tin cup.

• 1:14:06Bill Simmons?

  I honestly think they made a bet, Ron Shelton and Cheech Marin at some point. It's like, all right, if I win, I get my Tango scene. It's like, all right, fine.

• 1:14:13Speaker 04

  If you can drive the water here, you get to.

• 1:14:15Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of Cheech Marin, we don't get to give this out enough. The Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character was actually good at his job?

• 1:14:22Speaker 05

  That was my flex.

• 1:14:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:24Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that was your flex? Oh, I'm sorry, Craig.

• 1:14:27Speaker 05

  Terrible caddy.

• 1:14:28Bill Simmons?

  Terrible.

• 1:14:29Speaker 05

  Horrible caddy, breaks his three wood in half, causes him to collapse, gets him blacked out drunk and gives him three hours of sleep before day one of the US Open.

• 1:14:38Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't talk him out of not laying up with like $5 million on the line?

• 1:14:42Speaker 05

  Can't convince him of anything. If he just doesn't get blacked out drunk the night before the US Open, he wins by a landslide.

• 1:14:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he wins by like seven strokes.

• 1:14:49Speaker 05

  He just shoots a 75 that day, he's fine.

• 1:14:51Bill Simmons?

  So he knocks him in the water in 18 in the fourth round. And he's like, give me, give me another ball. I'm like, I'm taking my bag and I'm walking where the drop thing is and we're gonna, I'm putting the ball right there and you're gonna fucking hit the ball from right there.

• 1:15:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Bill Simmons?

  He's a terrible cat, not to mention he abandons him and he does really well without him anyway.

• 1:15:11Bill Simmons?

  The guy, the guy's needy. He's like, oh, is he like to have that whole conversation of like, was he better than me? It's like, who wants a needy caddy? Nobody.

• 1:15:19Speaker 05

  There's just one too many things going on. I feel like they're trying to force the Roy McAvoy Romeo, like bromance. There's like a whole scene where they're making up. I don't know if that needs to be there.

• 1:15:29Bill Simmons?

  Would have cut it.

• 1:15:29Speaker 05

  And you have Rene Russo, then it's his relationship with golf. It's like one too many.

• 1:15:33Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? We've already covered a couple, including Roy getting a little handsy.

• 1:15:41Bill Simmons?

  House, you had some thoughts on Roy's golf outfits? They went at the driving range?

• 1:15:48Speaker 04

  Well, there are, there was.

• 1:15:50Bill Simmons?

  There's a whole section of the movie.

• 1:15:52Speaker 04

  Yes, really all of the time leading up to them making it to the US Open. Many times he shows up wearing clothes that look like he just finished his Mater D shift at a crab, a crab restaurant in Miami. Like there's a lot of pastel. He's got, he's got leather loafers on. I mean, I get that we're supposed to buy that he's a, he's. He's casual. His vibe is West Texas casual, but the clothes aren't any have anything to do with West Texas. It's all these pastels and stuff. He's the Hawaiian shirts and and

• 1:16:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, you said he looked like he was in a Miami Vice episode, which I thought was a crucial point. He's in fucking nowhere, Texas.

• 1:16:31Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:16:31Bill Simmons?

  Why is he wearing linen?

• 1:16:32Speaker 05

  Also, doesn't wear a hat at the US Open. No visor, no hat, nothing.

• 1:16:37Bill Simmons?

  So in the 90s, that was a little more common.

• 1:16:39Speaker 05

  Is that right?

• 1:16:39Speaker 04

  I feel like that that's true.

• 1:16:41Bill Simmons?

  Was skin cancer wasn't wasn't really in the radar. I can tell it wasn't on the radar for any of us. I have some photos of a summer jacket.

• 1:16:48Speaker 04

  It was Don Johnson's wardrobe from Miami Vice, but now that I find you reported that he and Costner really are friends. Like, maybe it was.

• 1:16:54Bill Simmons?

  They're like, literally.

• 1:16:55Speaker 04

  Maybe Costner was like, these armadillos are costing us a fortune. Like, can you bring some stuff from Miami Vice for me to wear? Some pants and some loafers?

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  I, I don't understand that half hour of wardrobe. And then it then it, by the time we get to the open, it's okay.

• 1:17:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, looks good.

• 1:17:11Speaker 04

  Clothes are on point. Yeah.

• 1:17:12Bill Simmons?

  This is too big to be a nit point nitpick. So Molly never realizes Sims is an asshole until she overhears him being mean to a fan?

• 1:17:25Bill Simmons?

  She doesn't see that at all?

• 1:17:27Speaker 04

  Never in any other tournament except that one. I mean, he then would be normal for him.

• 1:17:30Speaker 05

  Doesn't sound like they're hanging out too much. Sims might have had many girlfriends.

• 1:17:34Bill Simmons?

  Was she a beard? Throwing that out, too?

• 1:17:38Speaker 05

  That's why he went back to Roy to get him to caddy for him.

• 1:17:41Bill Simmons?

  Did he like her to begin with? I just, the Sims Molly thing, I was just never buying that combo.

• 1:17:50Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? He qualifies for the US Open in like a day and a half?

• 1:17:56Speaker 05

  He plays like two rounds a golf.

• 1:17:57Bill Simmons?

  Is that easy? Is it that easy to make the US Open? Craig, could you make the US Open?

• 1:18:02Speaker 05

  Probably. Give me a couple of weeks.

• 1:18:04Bill Simmons?

  Could you just like, you're playing like in Orange County, you win a tournament and then you win one more and you're in the US Open?

• 1:18:10Speaker 04

  Yes, there's a local and and then there's a sectional. The local is an 18 hole thing and they take, you know, you have to be a two, whatever the the line of demarcation is demonstrating your your capacity to be good at golf.

• 1:18:23Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:18:24Speaker 04

  Because you can't be a bum and show up and waste everybody's time. But you have to be in the top two or three, whatever, at the local to make it to the sectional. And then the sectional is like four spots for 78 golfers. And it is the so-called longest day of golf. It's mid-June and there are these sectionals all over the country. I think there's one in Canada, too.

• 1:18:44Bill Simmons?

  So is there a certain threshold or they're only taking like 20 golfers?

• 1:18:49Speaker 04

  It's they're only taking like 20, 25 total golf, whatever the number is.

• 1:18:52Bill Simmons?

  So Roy makes this even though his caddy broke all of his clubs in one of the, okay.

• 1:18:56Speaker 05

  And just, can we pay for me for the next year to try to qualify? Can that be our next project?

• 1:19:01Bill Simmons?

  I mean, we are sending the fantasy show to Ireland.

• 1:19:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:19:05Bill Simmons?

  Now you want to qualify for the US Open? Yeah, they're going to Ireland for the fantasy football show.

• 1:19:09Speaker 05

  Steelers Vikings, week four.

• 1:19:10Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 1:19:11Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna be like six people going and probably four coming back. We might just lose multiple people.

• 1:19:16Speaker 05

  Place to play golf.

• 1:19:17Speaker 06

  Can I, hey, can I executive produce that one, too?

• 1:19:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Jack was like, what? Um, any other what's aged the worst?

• 1:19:25Speaker 05

  I don't think there's a lot that actually has aged badly about this movie.

• 1:19:28Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 1:19:28Speaker 05

  It holds up.

• 1:19:29Bill Simmons?

  Uh, the Ruffalo Hannah Rubinek Partridge overacting award. It's not overacting, but it's something, whatever Gary McCord's doing in his scenes. He's in a different movie. He, he could actually get the Teddy KGB in my own movie. I don't know what's going on with him in multiple scenes, but he's like hamming it up as an announcer. But you're in a movie that's scripted with real actors?

• 1:19:51Speaker 04

  I think it's pure McCord. And I think if they let him sort of just be him.

• 1:19:56Bill Simmons?

  And Newhouse would defend yet another member of the golf.

• 1:19:59Speaker 06

  Golf thing. I think House is right, though. Like you're, you're not wrong about him being too much.

• 1:20:04Bill Simmons?

  You're signing up for that experience if you cast Gary McCord.

• 1:20:06Speaker 06

  That's him. Like if you watched golf in the 90s, that was him doing golf. I think they were like, Gary, just be yourself. I'm not even sure his lines were scripted.

• 1:20:13Speaker 05

  There's some Russo moments where she's dialing it up quite a bit, yelling on 18.

• 1:20:18Speaker 06

  He's really down on Rene Russo. It's hurting the 50, 50 year old guys here.

• 1:20:22Bill Simmons?

  Way do we do two for the money without Pacino? Craig's gonna be even more down. I was thinking with Gary McCord, who I'd like to in the mid 90s, but there are these people when they they get the reputation for being hilarious, but they're really hilarious by comparison to everyone else they're interacting with all day. This would happen, the NBA, like Blake Griffin had this, and I actually think Blake Griffin's pretty funny.

• 1:20:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:20:45Bill Simmons?

  But Blake Griffin as an NBA player in the early 2010s was like fucking Chris Rock selling out 18,000 seat arena funny compared to everyone else who he's going against. But Gary McCord, it's like when nobody's funny in any way, he seems funnier than he probably is.

• 1:21:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Speaker 04

  Gary McCord walked so David Faraday could run.

• 1:21:05Bill Simmons?

  Right. David Faraday is another example.

• 1:21:07Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:21:08Bill Simmons?

  Is he legitimately funny or is he just funny because he's in the golf room?

• 1:21:11Speaker 04

  Golf tournament funny.

• 1:21:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Bill Simmons?

  The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  You don't even have to necessarily totally believe this take. We used to have a podcast called The Hottest Take that we're bringing back. We had to take a four year.

• 1:21:28Speaker 05

  Gave some?

• 1:21:29Bill Simmons?

  We had to give a four year sabbatical because Craig almost got the podcast canceled when he tried to bring back cannibalism.

• 1:21:36Speaker 05

  Altruistic cannibalism.

• 1:21:37Bill Simmons?

  Altruistic cannibalism. The podcast was done like a month later. No, it was actually done because we're bringing it back as a video pod and I'm excited about it. But what's your hottest take for this movie?

• 1:21:48Speaker 05

  He's just, Roy McAvoy is an all time choke artist. He has no clutch in him at all.

• 1:21:54Bill Simmons?

  Even like when he's hooking up?

• 1:21:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57Speaker 04

  That's a great point.

• 1:21:58Speaker 05

  He has, when the lights are brightest, he flops. At the charity event, he can stripe his three wood. When it matters, he can't, he can't do it. He can hit the seven iron, you know, at the bar. He can hit the pelican in the club. When the lights are bright, he can't, he can't.

• 1:22:14Speaker 04

  When the defining moment comes along, you define the moment or the moment defines you?

• 1:22:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, the moment defined the shit out of him.

• 1:22:20Speaker 04

  He bent, the moment bent him over and defined him right in the rear every single time. That's absolutely a thousand percent right. See money crushing it.

• 1:22:29Bill Simmons?

  Has held up the Karl Malone to really, speaking of people who let the moment define them.

• 1:22:33Speaker 05

  All time choker.

• 1:22:34Speaker 04

  Really good.

• 1:22:36Bill Simmons?

  I have a really hot take. I think you could switch the two male leads and the movie still works.

• 1:22:42Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:22:43Bill Simmons?

  I think Don Johnson could be Roy McAvoy.

• 1:22:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:45Bill Simmons?

  Basically playing it. I mean, honestly, Costner is not as good as being the kind of drunk southern guy as, as Don Johnson was as Sonny Crockett on Miami Vice. He is a 10 out of 10 with that character. Cigarette, calling everybody darling, stubble, hungover. He would have been an unbelievable Roy McAvoy.

• 1:23:06Speaker 04

  I will say, there was a few moments during the first re-watching of this where it's, I felt like Costner was trying to figure out his accent.

• 1:23:17Bill Simmons?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  What accent does he want to use?

• 1:23:19Bill Simmons?

  That's every Kevin Costner movie does.

• 1:23:20Speaker 04

  I know, but.

• 1:23:20Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 1:23:21Speaker 04

  But.

• 1:23:22Bill Simmons?

  Robin Hood, he's just seen the scene. He's English, he's not English.

• 1:23:25Speaker 04

  That, that's different.

• 1:23:26Bill Simmons?

  JFK. No, in this one, I felt like he was too southern. Then it, then he figured it out.

• 1:23:31Speaker 05

  And, and Don Johnson's one of the only actors who can believably steal a woman away from Kevin Costner if it was switched.

• 1:23:37Speaker 04

  Great point. Great point.

• 1:23:39Bill Simmons?

  I think Costner's David Sims would have been really good. I think Don Johnson, he, it's probably like five years to live for him. If it was like late eighties even, Don Johnson, I think, and he's just basically Sonny Crockett as Roy McAvoy. That's the best movie of my life.

• 1:23:56Bill Simmons?

  I would have been there opening night. All right, casting whatevs. So apparently they offered the role of Molly to Janine Turner and she turned it down. She had a run in the nineties. She was in Cliffhanger.

• 1:24:07Speaker 05

  Oh, sure.

• 1:24:08Bill Simmons?

  She was in, um.

• 1:24:09Speaker 05

  Short Hair?

• 1:24:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah, she was in that last movie.

• 1:24:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Bill Simmons?

  Everyone used to say she was like drop dead gorgeous in person. That kind of like Margaret Qualley now where you're just like in person, another level. Anyway, she turned it down. Michelle Pfeiffer approached. Then they went the Rene Russo route. I don't know.

• 1:24:28Speaker 05

  I think Pfeiffer would have crushed.

• 1:24:29Speaker 04

  She'd have been too much, I think.

• 1:24:32Speaker 04

  Oh, that's a great.

• 1:24:32Speaker 05

  Too much?

• 1:24:33Bill Simmons?

  Two, two different points of view.

• 1:24:33Speaker 06

  Unattainable. Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 05

  Too attractive.

• 1:24:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I just, I'm not buying her as a sports psychologist in fucking East bumfuck Texas.

• 1:24:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, because she's had a series of failures chasing men and also professional failures.

• 1:24:47Bill Simmons?

  There's no, you're not buying Michelle Pfeiffer in any role like that.

• 1:24:50Speaker 04

  With, yeah.

• 1:24:51Bill Simmons?

  Even in Dangerous Minds, a classic, when she's like re, re getting her life back together and teaching an inter, even that's like, you'd be married by now. Come on.

• 1:25:01Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:25:01Speaker 04

  The only believable thing is her with a cocaine problem.

• 1:25:05Bill Simmons?

  That's where you get believable. Scarface.

• 1:25:07Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:25:07Bill Simmons?

  Fly, Pelican, fly. Uh, Dennis Quaid turned down David Sims.

• 1:25:15Speaker 05

  Would have been okay.

• 1:25:16Bill Simmons?

  Alec Baldwin accepted it and had to back out three weeks before filming because, uh, some family stuff.

• 1:25:21Speaker 05

  Baldwin would have been good. I think he would have been less likeable earlier on in the movie.

• 1:25:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:24Speaker 05

  You would have hated him sooner.

• 1:25:25Bill Simmons?

  It's a very easy ball. It's a very easy, um, villain.

• 1:25:30Speaker 04

  Especially in that era of him.

• 1:25:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, that would have been a good one.

• 1:25:33Bill Simmons?

  That's like Malice, The Bear level.

• 1:25:36Speaker 05

  Did you read that Kevin Costner turned down the role of Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore?

• 1:25:40Bill Simmons?

  I didn't believe that. I didn't, I chose not to include that in there. It didn't add up to me.

• 1:25:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:25:44Bill Simmons?

  I don't think, he's too big of a star. He's not gonna be Shooter McGavin. Like, Sandler wasn't even that famous when he did Happy Gilmore. He's gonna be Shooter. I didn't believe that.

• 1:25:52Speaker 06

  He's like, I can only do one golf movie a year and it's gonna be Tin Cup.

• 1:25:55Bill Simmons?

  Right. That's it. Uh, Legwazamo was apparently offered Romeo and said no. I, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure I believe that, but that was in the research.

• 1:26:07Speaker 06

  Was he that big in 96?

• 1:26:09Speaker 04

  I agree. That's, I can't, he had to have been pretty young in 96.

• 1:26:12Bill Simmons?

  I had, yeah, that's the thing. So he was in The Fan with De Niro.

• 1:26:15Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:26:16Bill Simmons?

  That same year. That's kind of the level he was at. He was like the eighth lead in The Fan. So I don't know if I believe that one. Uh, best that guy word. It's amazing. Cheech Barron's crew includes Mox's dad from Varsity Blues.

• 1:26:33Bill Simmons?

  The, the biker guy from the doors. Um, the black guy who I've seen in, I don't even know, I've seen him in 40 things. I don't even know where I've seen him from. So he might be the winner.

• 1:26:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:26:44Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, one of the bad guys from Cliffhanger is my winner. The guy who's in John Lithgow's thing and he's flying the plane. Guy, bald guy with the mustache. He's actually got kind of a big cliffhanger role, but I think he's the winner.

• 1:27:00Bill Simmons?

  Dan Waiters is a little more complicated though. We have Jim Nance, we have Frank Chircanian.

• 1:27:05Speaker 05

  Which one's he?

• 1:27:07Bill Simmons?

  The producer.

• 1:27:07Speaker 04

  Real life producer.

• 1:27:08Bill Simmons?

  Media director guy.

• 1:27:09Speaker 06

  He was good.

• 1:27:10Speaker 05

  So funny.

• 1:27:12Bill Simmons?

  Or Craig Statler.

• 1:27:14Speaker 06

  Ooh.

• 1:27:15Bill Simmons?

  Or young, skinny, uh, about to get a gambling problem, Phil Mickelson. If you want to just go cameo.

• 1:27:25Bill Simmons?

  I think, I think it's the Frank Chircanian guy.

• 1:27:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Bill Simmons?

  Who did you think it was?

• 1:27:30Speaker 05

  Maybe Nance.

• 1:27:31Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 1:27:32Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:27:32Bill Simmons?

  Nance is really good.

• 1:27:33Speaker 06

  House is so brokenhearted that he couldn't say Nance. We're gonna, we're gonna recut this to select how to say Nance.

• 1:27:39Speaker 05

  You go now.

• 1:27:39Speaker 04

  I do think it was Chircanian though. Cause Chircanian is a lot more.

• 1:27:43Speaker 05

  Less.

• 1:27:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and he's not a camera, on camera person. He's not talent. He's in the, in the truck.

• 1:27:50Speaker 06

  He was great.

• 1:27:51Speaker 04

  But it was super compelling for the story. It was great. It gave the story a great heft.

• 1:27:54Bill Simmons?

  I think he's the winner. Recasting couch director city. Uh, can I reference Susan Sarandon as the strip joint owner?

• 1:28:01Speaker 06

  Hmm. There you go. Nice Bull Durham connection there too.

• 1:28:05Bill Simmons?

  Bringing back the Bull Durham. She's probably the right age.

• 1:28:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's a better casting choice.

• 1:28:08Speaker 04

  It would've been good.

• 1:28:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:09Speaker 04

  That would've been a good one.

• 1:28:11Bill Simmons?

  Craig, ready to flex. How fast are you to research? Tin Cup, there's some expression, she's not worth a fart in a tin cup. That's where they got that from.

• 1:28:19Speaker 05

  I was confused. I, I assumed the, the, a golf hole is not referred to as a tin cup. Is that correct?

• 1:28:24Bill Simmons?

  No, they, they said he got the name from playing baseball.

• 1:28:26Speaker 05

  I thought that was kind of random and weird.

• 1:28:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:29Speaker 05

  Why, why would it not have been a golf?

• 1:28:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, it totally should've been a golf reference to have his nickname. He's a golfer. It's not known for playing baseball.

• 1:28:35Speaker 05

  Tin Cup sounds like a hole.

• 1:28:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, it should've been something to do with that. Yeah.

• 1:28:39Speaker 05

  That was such a random throwaway moment when the stripper's like, oh, he played catcher and he's get hit in the nuts a lot.

• 1:28:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:44Speaker 05

  What?

• 1:28:45Speaker 04

  That was the tin cup.

• 1:28:46Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  They spent so much time, and I thought effectively so, building up what his flaw was, building up this, this thing that he was a, you know, compulsory go for it guy. Make it a tin, make tin cup, make a, make up a story around that.

• 1:29:01Speaker 06

  Right, 100%.

• 1:29:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like he had some bet.

• 1:29:05Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:29:06Bill Simmons?

  He bet somebody a thousand dollars that he couldn't hit a three wood into a tin cup.

• 1:29:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:29:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:29:11Speaker 05

  Or he used to putt into a tin cup when he was a kid or something golf related.

• 1:29:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:29:15Speaker 05

  It was just random. Oh, he played baseball.

• 1:29:17Bill Simmons?

  For the first time, he had a premature ejaculation problem. It was in, inside, into a tin cup. Then they called him Tin Cup.

• 1:29:25Bill Simmons?

  Costner trained extensively with Gary McCord and wrote the foreword for Golf for Dummies.

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  There's a story about McCord. They really wanted him to be a consultant and have a cameo. And he's like, I'm only doing it for $250,000. And they were like, sure.

• 1:29:39Speaker 06

  Really?

• 1:29:40Bill Simmons?

  And, and he got $250,000, which he brags about now, which is funny when you think of all the other stuff they cut corners on.

• 1:29:47Speaker 06

  How much did Vern Lundquist want? Like half a million?

• 1:29:49Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:50Speaker 06

  Is that why he's not in it? Vern's like, listen.

• 1:29:51Bill Simmons?

  Vern was like, maybe, yes.

• 1:29:54Speaker 06

  I have the yes, sir. Everybody knows me that. I'm bigger than McCord. Yeah.

• 1:29:58Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Costner made all of his golf shots or most of them. And then, uh.

• 1:30:03Speaker 06

  Like Bob Cousy in, uh, Blue Chips.

• 1:30:06Bill Simmons?

  There's a bunch of, there was a John Daly in 98, kept hitting balls in the water and became a tin cup moment. This golfer named Eddie Pepperell in 2019 ran out of balls.

• 1:30:17Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 1:30:18Bill Simmons?

  And that was compared to that. Um, and then you have the Tiger story.

• 1:30:22Speaker 04

  Well, the Tiger story is from the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach, which is, you know, I think some people would point to like the, the most dominant performance.

• 1:30:30Bill Simmons?

  The pinnacle of Tiger.

• 1:30:31Speaker 04

  Yes. Uh, and maybe of any golfer in any major, uh, in history. And the story is that he had switched balls that week. He had a new Nike golf ball that he put into play. And his standard approach in terms of carrying balls was nine to 12 balls, uh, in his bag. There was a weather delay from Friday into Saturday. So he had to finish his round Saturday morning. He had taken some balls out of his bag because he didn't like the way he was putting on Friday. And he was putting in his hotel room, left them balls behind. We're out, they're out on the golf course. A ball gets a scuff, gives it to a kid, to a kid. By the time they got to the 18th hole, he hooked one into the water and had one single

• 1:31:13Speaker 04

  ball left. There is a rule in golf where you are allowed to, if you can find somebody, another competitor that has the exact same manufacturer and type of ball, you can replace it. There's a penalty, but that ball was not replaceable. The Tiger ball not replaceable because it was a one of one for him for that week. And his caddy asked him to hit a iron off of the 18th hole and did not tell him why. Stevie Williams did not tell Tiger why he asked him to hit an iron off the tee on number 18 on Saturday morning. Cause if he had hit that ball into the water, they couldn't have found it. He would have been disqualified and he would not have won that tournament by 15 strokes and would have not been the most dominant performance ever in a major.

• 1:31:55Speaker 05

  So Tiger didn't question why he told him to hit the iron and he hit the iron?

• 1:31:58Speaker 04

  He did not hit the iron. He hit driver. He's like, why would I hit iron? I want to hit driver and he hit driver.

• 1:32:04Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:32:04Speaker 04

  Tiger.

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  If he had asked Jacko for a ball, Jack would have been like, fuck off. You should have brought more.

• 1:32:09Speaker 06

  That's right. I'm gonna win. Losing my 15 shots. I'll get the trophy.

• 1:32:14Bill Simmons?

  What a weird rule. When I, when I play golf, I bring like 50 to 70 balls.

• 1:32:19Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:32:19Bill Simmons?

  And I'll probably lose most of them.

• 1:32:21Speaker 05

  There was one other research thing I saw. That, that scene where David Sims is an asshole to the grandparents and the kid, those are Costner's parents.

• 1:32:29Speaker 04

  Great. Love that.

• 1:32:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:31Bill Simmons?

  And the, and the kid is the, is Costner's son, right?

• 1:32:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:32:36Bill Simmons?

  So they built that, uh, that the water hazard hole, they built one and called it Tin Cape, Tin Cup Lake. Salome, Texas is actually, they think it's Rankin, Texas, which is near Midland and Fort Stockton. I don't know Texas.

• 1:32:52Speaker 05

  Midland is Friday Night Lights, right?

• 1:32:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:56Speaker 06

  I think that's Odessa, but I think it's in the same area.

• 1:32:59Bill Simmons?

  Jacko, they talked about a sequel called Cup at Q School, which would have followed Roy as he tried to turn his PGA card. Um, mid 2000s, Shelton even spent a week at a tour event. It just never happened. I think a mistake by Costner at that point in his career, I think I would have maybe done it.

• 1:33:20Speaker 05

  How good did Costner get at golf? Do we know?

• 1:33:23Bill Simmons?

  Apparently good. Um, and then stopped playing right after the movie. Cause it's, cause again, he was snobby about golf.

• 1:33:32Bill Simmons?

  Here's a story from, so there's an oral history that Golf Magazine did in 2016 that now you cannot find on the internet because they changed their archives.

• 1:33:43Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:33:43Bill Simmons?

  But there were snippets of it available. And some guy in the oral history tells this story. There was a really tall pine tree and someone said to Phil Mickelson, I bet you can't put your shoulder against the tree, drop a ball and hit it over the tree. The shot basically had to go straight up. Everyone throwing a hundred bucks. There was 1,200 in the pot and he did it. When the ball was still in the air, Mickelson bent over, picked up the money and put it in his pocket.

• 1:34:07Speaker 04

  Phil Mickelson.

• 1:34:09Bill Simmons?

  No stranger.

• 1:34:11Speaker 04

  The legend.

• 1:34:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. We'll take one more break and then we'll do Apex Mountain. This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate, clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their core shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. All right, Apex Mountain. Jack, do you know what Apex Mountain is?

• 1:34:52Speaker 04

  I do not, no.

• 1:34:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, nobody else does either. Nobody could figure it out. It's the peak of somebody's career combined with when they had the most juice.

• 1:35:01Speaker 05

  Someone or something.

• 1:35:03Bill Simmons?

  Someone or something. Kevin Costner, the answer is no for him.

• 1:35:08Speaker 05

  Did we decide what his was?

• 1:35:10Bill Simmons?

  It's Dances with Wolves.

• 1:35:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:12Bill Simmons?

  He directs, he stars, he wins the Oscars.

• 1:35:15Speaker 04

  100%.

• 1:35:15Bill Simmons?

  He can do any movie he wants after Dances with Wolves. Cheech Barron, it's probably somewhere in the late 70s with Tommy Chong.

• 1:35:22Speaker 04

  Or, I actually looked up Cheech for this. He crushed cars. The whole franchise of cartoons, he participated in Dora the Explorer and the cartoon cars, he's one of those, he's Ramon, he's one of those vehicles. And then, I mean, he had a long career post this movie.

• 1:35:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is probably going to make you throw up, but I know him from Spy Kids.

• 1:35:45Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm not surprised by that. He had a whole second act as, so maybe that's. That might be, maybe that's what it is, his second act.

• 1:35:55Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:35:56Bill Simmons?

  Don Johnson, Miami Vice.

• 1:35:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:58Bill Simmons?

  Not only his apex mountain, but mine, just being able to watch it.

• 1:36:04Bill Simmons?

  Not laying up, just as a concept in golf. Did it ever get better than this?

• 1:36:09Speaker 04

  Turned into a podcast.

• 1:36:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:11Speaker 04

  Those guys, good job by those guys.

• 1:36:15Bill Simmons?

  West Texas for a movie location.

• 1:36:17Speaker 05

  Friday Night Lights.

• 1:36:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:20Speaker 05

  Which is, Midland was the team they played, right?

• 1:36:22Bill Simmons?

  I think, but they were in that area.

• 1:36:24Speaker 04

  Same, I think they're next to each other nearby.

• 1:36:26Bill Simmons?

  Rene Russo.

• 1:36:30Speaker 04

  She might have been bigger in Lethal Weapon, three and four.

• 1:36:33Speaker 05

  Thomas Crotter was big, right?

• 1:36:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, that too.

• 1:36:36Bill Simmons?

  I, it, honestly, it might be this movie. Because after this movie leads to like, she's in three more bangers and is really established. And she wasn't the first choice of it, but I think after this movie, she became a first choice. Peter Jacobson wins the US Open in this movie. I'm gonna say this is his apex mountain. This is not somebody winning majors in real life. It's a nitpick for the movie too. The CBS crew in a movie, definitely.

• 1:37:05Bill Simmons?

  Golf movies?

• 1:37:09Speaker 04

  Caddyshack.

• 1:37:10Bill Simmons?

  I still think it's Caddyshack.

• 1:37:11Speaker 04

  There's only three candidates.

• 1:37:12Bill Simmons?

  I still think it's Caddyshack.

• 1:37:13Speaker 05

  Caddyshack this, Happy Gilmore?

• 1:37:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:15Bill Simmons?

  It has to be Caddyshack.

• 1:37:16Speaker 04

  Caddyshack's like the most quotable movie of all time, like, and, and just so much about that has become iconic.

• 1:37:21Bill Simmons?

  Influencer, all those guys in it.

• 1:37:23Speaker 04

  The only thing I would say is like they're, they had two different goals and the golf sicko appeal of, of Tin Cup. Because of the, you know. The realism. The lyrical, you know.

• 1:37:36Bill Simmons?

  It's not, it's not it.

• 1:37:37Speaker 04

  I, I know.

• 1:37:38Bill Simmons?

  I would say the other one would be Happy Gilmore.

• 1:37:39Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, agreed.

• 1:37:41Bill Simmons?

  It's Happy Gilmore, Caddyshack, yeah, it's generational.

• 1:37:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:44Bill Simmons?

  Happy Gilmore two will not be as generational.

• 1:37:46Speaker 05

  No, I don't think so. Although it might be for 13 year olds who like Mr. Beast videos, maybe.

• 1:37:54Bill Simmons?

  The Waffle House.

• 1:37:56Speaker 06

  Oh, no, the Waffle House has a life of its own.

• 1:37:58Speaker 04

  It does.

• 1:37:59Bill Simmons?

  As a movie location?

• 1:38:00Speaker 06

  I think so. Not for movies, but no, but like it's just as a thing, as a, as a meme.

• 1:38:06Speaker 04

  I think it's been in other movies and, and been properly revered.

• 1:38:12Speaker 04

  That's worth looking at.

• 1:38:13Bill Simmons?

  It's not. I don't think it is. I don't think it's an apex bound for the US Open either. I think the US Open's probably had some better moments. Armadillos?

• 1:38:24Speaker 06

  Not bad.

• 1:38:24Bill Simmons?

  If they've been in a, in a movie in a better way, it's like pretty prominent.

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  The Seven Iron? What is the Seven Iron had a, like a better tour for anything?

• 1:38:36Speaker 06

  The fact that House said they have a whole tournament where guys have to play with that based on this movie. That's pretty good for a Seven Iron.

• 1:38:41Speaker 05

  Sixty-five with it?

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And then, uh, this is a big one. Jim Nance.

• 1:38:49Speaker 05

  In a movie?

• 1:38:50Bill Simmons?

  Jim Nance.

• 1:38:51Speaker 06

  Movie wise, not career wise, but movie wise.

• 1:38:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, movie wise, yes, but career wise.

• 1:38:56Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:38:58Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:38:59Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:38:59Bill Simmons?

  How about Jim Nance and Ken Venturi together?

• 1:39:02Speaker 06

  No, they had bigger real life golf moments, I would say.

• 1:39:05Speaker 05

  All right. I have an apex mountain for you.

• 1:39:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:08Speaker 05

  Unexpected sports losses to end the movie.

• 1:39:13Speaker 05

  When a sports movie ends with a loss.

• 1:39:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:39:15Speaker 05

  Is this the apex of that? I think there's, you have Friday Night Lights, they lose. Remember the Titans, they lose. A league of their own, loss at the end for, for Gina Davis. Yeah. But is this the, is this the peak of?

• 1:39:27Bill Simmons?

  Although that might be your thing about the David Sims, that you actually rooting for the wrong person in that movie. You should be rooting for Lori Petty in that movie.

• 1:39:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. Is this the best sports loss ever in a movie?

• 1:39:36Bill Simmons?

  So the answer, those are all great questions. I love the category, but the answer is Rocky won.

• 1:39:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was gonna ask.

• 1:39:41Bill Simmons?

  He loses in Rocky.

• 1:39:42Speaker 05

  I thought it's a tie, they tie.

• 1:39:44Bill Simmons?

  No, they, he loses.

• 1:39:45Speaker 06

  It wasn't a draw. It was a loss.

• 1:39:46Bill Simmons?

  Wasn't a draw. He lost, he lost the majority of the decision.

• 1:39:48Speaker 06

  I was making that puzzled face.

• 1:39:50Bill Simmons?

  So I think that's the answer.

• 1:39:51Speaker 05

  Cause they both hit the ground at the same time, right?

• 1:39:53Bill Simmons?

  I think the best twist on it was probably Friday Night Lights though. Cause they set it up where you really think they're about to win and then they don't. Yeah. That's a good one. Good category, though. Cruz or Hanks?

• 1:40:08Speaker 05

  I mean, this is Hanks by a million, right?

• 1:40:11Bill Simmons?

  So this is a version of Hanks that he only brought out in League of Their Own. And it's a version I really like of him, stubble drunk, kind of sarcastic Tom Hanks. He just veered away from it.

• 1:40:21Speaker 05

  I would love to see Cruz learn how to golf. Like, watching Cruz golf is way more interesting and entertaining than watching Tom Hanks golf.

• 1:40:28Bill Simmons?

  Listen, Cruz doing Tin Cup would have been one of the greatest moments of the 90s. Him, him also trying to become a drunk, kind of West Texas, like, it would have been bizarre casting. He could have done it.

• 1:40:41Speaker 05

  We should do a draft.

• 1:40:42Bill Simmons?

  Done it and, like, been a disaster or actually done it? I think he could have done it.

• 1:40:47Speaker 06

  Cruz would have demanded that he drilled the shot the first time and won the US Open with an eagle.

• 1:40:52Speaker 05

  We should do a draft of movies you wish Tom Cruise was in. Tin Cup's up there for me. I want to watch him play golf.

• 1:40:59Bill Simmons?

  That's really good. We should do that on my podcast. That could be a good mailbag category when we do the rewatchables mailbag. Scorsese or Spielberg?

• 1:41:08Speaker 05

  Probably Spielberg.

• 1:41:10Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 1:41:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:11Bill Simmons?

  Ed Spielberg.

• 1:41:14Bill Simmons?

  Jacko is hesitant to be in the rewatchables, but now he loves it.

• 1:41:18Speaker 06

  I kind of want to just have this role in all of it.

• 1:41:19Bill Simmons?

  Because it's rocking.

• 1:41:20Speaker 06

  I was put off by all the categories and all, but I, you know, I enjoyed just chiming in.

• 1:41:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, now you know.

• 1:41:25Speaker 06

  There you go.

• 1:41:27Bill Simmons?

  What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Clearly, somebody in the Cheech Baron crew.

• 1:41:32Speaker 05

  It's the TCU guy, the guy who's wearing all the TCU gear, who has to be his caddy that one time and can't walk up and help.

• 1:41:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Earl.

• 1:41:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, Earl.

• 1:41:38Speaker 06

  He would have been Earl.

• 1:41:39Speaker 05

  I love that, by the way, that he's just rocking TCU in every scene.

• 1:41:43Bill Simmons?

  Pick a Nits, we hit a bunch of them. She's a sports psychologist and he's bumfuck Texas. Why wouldn't Sims teach her how to golf? Here's one we didn't hit. Why was David Sims's charity tournament nationally televised? And it was one round? What was going on there? With a big purse, like half a million dollars at stake. And it's like, he's just, oh, do you want to be? He made it seem like it was this rinky-dink thing, but then it's like, there's a national crew there?

• 1:42:11Speaker 05

  I guess he was so famous at the time that if you start your own tournament, it's a big deal.

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  Um, Roy and Romeo, they're broke, but they have no problem breaking an entire set of golf clubs, right? As they're like hawking stuff at the same time. They just breaking stuff left and right.

• 1:42:29Speaker 05

  Did you snap a club that easily back then? The 90s clubs?

• 1:42:32Bill Simmons?

  Those, the 90s clubs you could.

• 1:42:33Speaker 04

  It would have hurt.

• 1:42:34Speaker 05

  I mean, they were.

• 1:42:35Speaker 04

  Those steel shafts, they, they look like they were steel shafts. I think it would have hurt.

• 1:42:39Bill Simmons?

  We talked about this earlier, but Roy getting bombed before his first US Open ever.

• 1:42:44Speaker 05

  Insane.

• 1:42:44Bill Simmons?

  Ludicrous. Nobody's doing that. Nobody is that self-destructive. You'd have to have like a heroin problem.

• 1:42:49Speaker 05

  And adding in the sleep deprivation, it was a double whammy by Romeo where he, he was already hammered. And then at the end, he was like, I gotta be up in three hours. And then he passes out. It's pretty brutal.

• 1:42:58Bill Simmons?

  Roy finished minus one. He shot an 83, 62, 64, and 78. So if he just got a four or five on that last hole, he would have had a 71. So he would have gone 83, 62, 64, 71. 62 and 64 back to back would have been like the biggest story of the decade.

• 1:43:23Speaker 05

  Well, 62 was the record in the movie, right? He breaks the record.

• 1:43:26Bill Simmons?

  To shoot a 126 in two rounds in a row is.

• 1:43:29Speaker 06

  When you're a nobody from East bumfuck Texas.

• 1:43:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that would have been a massive, massive, massive sports story. Just pointing that out. Nobody ever shot 6000 major, but somebody has. Uh, House is pointing out that our guy who won D N Waiters, Frank Cherkinnian, whatever his name is.

• 1:43:43Speaker 06

  Cherkinnian.

• 1:43:44Bill Simmons?

  Cherkinnian. A couple weird quotes from him where he's like, we gotta keep an eye on this tin cup guy. It's like the final round. He's in the final, final matchup.

• 1:43:53Speaker 06

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:43:54Bill Simmons?

  It's like, we're all keeping an eye on him. He's, he's in first place.

• 1:43:57Speaker 06

  Get a camera on that guy.

• 1:43:58Speaker 05

  The guy shot a 62. Yeah.

• 1:44:00Bill Simmons?

  There's three holes left. You would be like following him every.

• 1:44:03Speaker 06

  He might be the story. Oh.

• 1:44:04Bill Simmons?

  But then the big one, which I don't think we hit strongly enough was we never see what happens with David Sims. It's unbelievable. They, cause if he birdies 18, he gets into a playoff with Jacobson. He lays up.

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  He lays up. He just gotta go up and down.

• 1:44:20Bill Simmons?

  Up and down. He gets a four. He's in a playoff.

• 1:44:22Speaker 04

  He has to stand there and wait for the entirety of, of the dopey Roy to hit the ball into the water.

• 1:44:29Bill Simmons?

  But Roy, just the tournament ends. Roy walks off. We don't see Peter Jacobson celebrating. There's like 19 things going wrong.

• 1:44:37Speaker 06

  Everybody rushed the green. He couldn't putt out because they tore up the green to try to jump in the water to get his ball.

• 1:44:43Bill Simmons?

  Turdets over. Sorry, David.

• 1:44:44Speaker 06

  Just pick it up. Dave will give you a four or whatever. Yeah.

• 1:44:47Bill Simmons?

  This is really crazy. Anyway, uh, sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable. Prestige TV. So they made stick, which a lot of people like on Apple TV, which is a little, little like a cousin. Why'd you make a face? Um, I, I'm only halfway through it. Okay. Um, but it's like that same kind of golf pro, kind of a never was, um.

• 1:45:14Speaker 05

  How about a, I like a prequel, college days, Sims and McAvoy at University of Houston, also University of Houston, Jim Nance. Nance could have been there as like the student broadcaster.

• 1:45:23Speaker 06

  That's right. Nance would have known that.

• 1:45:24Bill Simmons?

  Uh, has just blacked out. I'm, I'm, I'm there for all of this.

• 1:45:28Speaker 06

  And the prequel could have a better reason why he's called Tin Cub.

• 1:45:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, that you find out in that movie. A college golf competition movie would be great.

• 1:45:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley? In the firm. I'm so excited Jacko is here because we finally get to do Mike and the Mad Dog. On, on the rewatchables. Mike and the Mad Dog, the next A and W fan after Roy McAvoy, shot at 12. Do you want to be dog or Francesca?

• 1:46:04Speaker 06

  Does either one. You, you go for it.

• 1:46:05Bill Simmons?

  You're a better dog.

• 1:46:07Speaker 05

  I mean, Mike, what are you, you gotta, you gotta take the putt and take the drop, Mike? What are you doing there? You're gonna be kidding me?

• 1:46:12Bill Simmons?

  It's a humongous, humongous mistake. Humongous. You just, you get in at five, you take the playoff dog.

• 1:46:19Speaker 05

  I mean, you're nobody from Texas. You gotta take the drop. What are you doing?

• 1:46:22Bill Simmons?

  I mean, I know they're dumb in Texas, dog, but this was, this was dumb even for people in Texas. I cannot believe it's a humongous mistake.

• 1:46:29Speaker 06

  This would have been a better, if Mike and the Mad Dog did the day after.

• 1:46:32Bill Simmons?

  That should have been the closing credits.

• 1:46:33Speaker 06

  That should have been the last five minutes of the movie.

• 1:46:35Bill Simmons?

  Their show the next day. Amazing. Dog just having an absolute stroke. And then Roy McAvoy, what are you doing?

• 1:46:43Bill Simmons?

  Just one Oscar. Who gets it?

• 1:46:47Speaker 04

  I brought this up when we watched it, Cheech Marin, when he does that speech after he breaks all the clubs.

• 1:46:51Bill Simmons?

  Oscar speech?

• 1:46:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was like, that monologue, it was Oscar worthy.

• 1:46:55Bill Simmons?

  It's not the soundtrack.

• 1:46:58Speaker 04

  That won a Grammy.

• 1:46:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm giving it to Don Johnson, just because I love Don Johnson. Now that I have the studio, I'm bringing Don Johnson. I'm inviting him on the podcast. We gotta dive into his life.

• 1:47:06Speaker 04

  I admire Cheech's range. I would go for Cheech.

• 1:47:09Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Craig?

• 1:47:10Speaker 05

  Uh, Cheech is great. I couldn't think of one.

• 1:47:14Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions. The, uh, the dick measuring contest would have been amazing if they had actually filmed it. These are two Hollywood legends, Don Johnson and Kevin Costner, pretty notable reputations. So thank God, that would have been an NC 17.

• 1:47:28Speaker 04

  Strong stick men.

• 1:47:32Bill Simmons?

  Is this the most revered golf movie or is it Happy Gilmore? What's the most beloved golf movie right now?

• 1:47:39Speaker 05

  Caddyshack?

• 1:47:39Bill Simmons?

  If we're gonna say the, no, I'm not talking about, I'm saying right now, the most, most Americans. If you did a poll, if we did a poll, like if it was part of the 2028 election and you had to vote on, what is your favorite golf movie? This probably doesn't win. Does Happy Gilmore win?

• 1:47:57Speaker 05

  It's hard for me to say. I'm probably skewed because of my age, but I, I think Happy Gilmore is more famous. I mean, the fact that they just made the second one and it was so big. Sandler's fame, I think it's, it's more of a slapstick comedy, which I think lives on a little bit easier.

• 1:48:09Bill Simmons?

  But this is more revered with, in the golf community, I think, because of how they handled it.

• 1:48:13Speaker 05

  It's more of a movie about golf.

• 1:48:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, and, and the,

• 1:48:16Bill Simmons?

  With the actual PGA.

• 1:48:17Speaker 04

  There's proper authenticity to it. Uh, but I, I mean, I think popularity wise, it's, it's happy.

• 1:48:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Also revered in the premature Jack O' Hitter community as well.

• 1:48:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Bill Simmons?

  They're like, look, fucking Roy McAvoy.

• 1:48:29Speaker 04

  That's a prequel.

• 1:48:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Um, the Zouattine Award for what happened the next day, we don't get to give this out very often. And we never had a sequel. So Roy becomes a national story. I think multiple sponsors.

• 1:48:45Speaker 06

  He would have cashed in big time.

• 1:48:47Bill Simmons?

  Probably blown all the money.

• 1:48:48Speaker 06

  Written a book. Or he just gets drunk and kicks himself because he was already starting to beat himself up about I just I just lost the US Open.

• 1:48:56Speaker 04

  Well, he had to pay back the IRS first.

• 1:49:00Bill Simmons?

  Maybe it goes dark. He's just, it becomes like traffic. He just starts doing heroin.

• 1:49:04Speaker 04

  But he's so happy. He got the girl.

• 1:49:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:08Speaker 04

  And, and she has a.

• 1:49:09Bill Simmons?

  Are they married?

• 1:49:10Speaker 04

  Well, she has a viable career path. If she goes on tour, working with tour professionals, then that dummy should just go on tour and play and he could be, you know.

• 1:49:20Bill Simmons?

  So he, he tries to get his PGA cards. How long does that take?

• 1:49:23Speaker 04

  He had to go to Q school. And back then it was like, you know, this multi-layer, multi-round.

• 1:49:28Bill Simmons?

  Guessing if he can shoot a 62 and a 64 back to back in North Carolina, so I mean, he could probably become a.

• 1:49:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:34Speaker 05

  And then you get the same issue because if he goes on tour and becomes a good golfer and now his girlfriend is mentoring other golfers, he becomes David Sims in this scenario. And the other golfers that she is now working with become Roy McAvoy.

• 1:49:48Speaker 06

  I think she.

• 1:49:48Bill Simmons?

  Only they're mature ejaculators.

• 1:49:50Speaker 06

  I think she'd have to end her practice. I think it's a conflict of interest if she's basically helping other golfers and her husband is, or boyfriend is like trying to compete against them.

• 1:49:58Bill Simmons?

  I gotta find out from Mallory, what, what is her reaction to Kevin Costner not really getting it done in the sex scene? Cause I think she would, I think the excuses would have been plentiful from the Mallory side. It was late night.

• 1:50:13Speaker 05

  Lot of whiskey.

• 1:50:14Bill Simmons?

  From the course, lot of drinks.

• 1:50:16Speaker 04

  Definitely alcohol.

• 1:50:17Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 1:50:18Speaker 06

  Hung over.

• 1:50:20Bill Simmons?

  All right. This one goes to all of you. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

• 1:50:28Bill Simmons?

  I narrowed it down to the Roy's three wood or seven iron. Or the tin, the tin cup fan club hat.

• 1:50:36Speaker 05

  That's pretty sweet.

• 1:50:37Bill Simmons?

  The tournament worn, there's only one. That's it. It's like right behind house right now.

• 1:50:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:43Bill Simmons?

  I think that's probably the answer.

• 1:50:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:50:45Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, Jaco?

• 1:50:47Speaker 06

  One of the armadillos stuffed.

• 1:50:49Speaker 05

  Taxidermy.

• 1:50:50Speaker 06

  Or the Pelican, maybe the Pelican and the Armadillo. If you wanted to go taxidermy.

• 1:50:54Bill Simmons?

  A signed letter from the PETA member who was on set making sure.

• 1:50:58Speaker 06

  Was fine. Right.

• 1:51:00Bill Simmons?

  I like the hat.

• 1:51:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, the visor. The visor is the best one. Yeah.

• 1:51:04Bill Simmons?

  Well, imagine who's in the studio right now. What would be a bigger conversation piece? Like if I had the seven iron behind house.

• 1:51:11Speaker 05

  Seven iron would be cool, or the whole bag, that red bag with the tassels.

• 1:51:15Speaker 06

  His bag. Yeah.

• 1:51:16Bill Simmons?

  The leather bag or the last bag?

• 1:51:19Speaker 05

  The leather bag. Bag is like a red leather bag with the tassels on every club cover.

• 1:51:24Speaker 06

  You know, I just realized that the Golden Tassel head covers was a throwback. Isn't that what the strip club was called?

• 1:51:30Bill Simmons?

  The Golden Tassel.

• 1:51:31Speaker 06

  Was that like the ex-girlfriend? Cause she owned it, owned him now and that they had to do like a little shout out with the head covers.

• 1:51:37Speaker 05

  Rene Russo, pretty cool with the ex-girlfriend stripper just hanging around.

• 1:51:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, they were.

• 1:51:40Speaker 05

  Maybe became best friends pretty quick.

• 1:51:41Bill Simmons?

  Right away. Oh, that should have been a pick and then she would have hated, hated that one, right?

• 1:51:45Speaker 05

  She's like, oh, that's Roy for you. She's like, okay.

• 1:51:48Speaker 06

  What about a framed, broken three wood? Like if you had that in a frame, the snap three wood?

• 1:51:53Bill Simmons?

  Oh, from the qualifying thing? That's good. That's good. Stuffed Pelican. Coach Finstak wore best life lesson. I guess it's don't lay up. Craig had trouble finding a lesson.

• 1:52:04Speaker 06

  Be true to yourself.

• 1:52:05Speaker 05

  I feel like it's both don't lay up and lay up. Like.

• 1:52:09Bill Simmons?

  Just figure out the don't lay up, lay up thing better.

• 1:52:12Speaker 05

  Well, cause at the end, this is what I don't get. He doesn't lay up and you're like, you know what? He's stuck to his guns. But then at the final scene in bed or on the couch, he's like, you know, I guess, I guess what I learned is sometimes you should listen to your brain, not just your heart.

• 1:52:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 1:52:25Speaker 05

  So I'm like, lay up or don't lay up? I don't know.

• 1:52:28Bill Simmons?

  He's pretty stupid.

• 1:52:28Speaker 06

  It's not really be true to yourself. Cause at the end he's like, I shouldn't have been true to myself. I should have like gone with my head and not my heart.

• 1:52:33Speaker 05

  Threw away the US Open.

• 1:52:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Bill Simmons?

  Double feature choice house?

• 1:52:40Bill Simmons?

  I don't think so. You gotta, you have to make one.

• 1:52:45Speaker 06

  No, it's not. No, it's not an acceptable answer.

• 1:52:47Speaker 05

  No one's ever said that before. That was great.

• 1:52:52Bill Simmons?

  What movie would you watch before or after this movie? If you had to watch, go to a double feature?

• 1:52:57Speaker 04

  Oh, um, Thomas Crown Affair immediately. I can't get enough Rene Russo.

• 1:53:02Bill Simmons?

  Wow. What do you have?

• 1:53:05Speaker 04

  Happy Gilmore.

• 1:53:05Speaker 05

  I love golf movies. I love just hanging out at the golf course.

• 1:53:09Bill Simmons?

  I did Caddyshack. What do you have, Jacko?

• 1:53:10Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, because you and I are of the age where we would say Caddyshack over Happy Gilmore, but I think depending on your age, either is an acceptable choice.

• 1:53:17Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie?

• 1:53:22Speaker 05

  It's probably Costner, but part of me wants to say Jim Nance.

• 1:53:27Speaker 04

  I mean, you, it's easy for me. It's definitely Jim Nance.

• 1:53:31Bill Simmons?

  Jim Nance won the movie.

• 1:53:32Speaker 05

  He does a lot for the movie. I do think the last hour, him being there just makes the whole thing so much more dramatic and intense and realistic and enjoyable.

• 1:53:42Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Jacko?

• 1:53:43Speaker 06

  I want to say Trinkin' Ian because I liked his performance so much, but I really did. And I think that he played himself and America got to see it because I've read stuff about him. But, uh, the answer is Costner. I mean, the whole thing's a vehicle for him.

• 1:53:56Bill Simmons?

  Okay, so the answer is Costner because this is kind of the end of this run he had. He's moving by the late 90s. We're doing For Love of the Game, a movie that I really like, but some people don't. But it's, it's, we're at the tail end of this incredible.

• 1:54:11Speaker 06

  Because he no hits the Yankees. That's why you like it.

• 1:54:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's, I mean, that part's great, but we, this is the tail end of this incredible A plus list run he has. And it's, it's kind of not the same after this. And he also exacted as much as he could out of different versions of this persona. And now we move into like older, and then we move into Draft Day Kevin Costner and Yellowstone Kevin Costner.

• 1:54:34Speaker 05

  He's also a piece of a bygone era of actors that like, I don't know, because I think he's like 40, 41 in this movie, Costner.

• 1:54:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:43Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't know who you cast now. This movie wouldn't be made now, but I don't, I don't know who you get to kind of be the everyman, good looking, athletic, kind of play any sport, looks like a normal person, doesn't have, you know, fillers in his face. I don't really know who, who that is now.

• 1:54:58Speaker 04

  Is it, could Ham do it or is he too pretty?

• 1:55:02Bill Simmons?

  It could have been, Ham's too old now, but yeah, it could have been Ham 10 years ago, maybe. Ham's a good one. It is like a ham kind of part. He's got, he could grow the stubble out.

• 1:55:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, you have to look like, you have to be attractive, but also look like a normal person. You can't be too ripped, you know, you can't be too chiseled.

• 1:55:17Bill Simmons?

  That rules out Affleck.

• 1:55:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, everyone's too old now. There's no 40 year old generation of guys that are like the Costner or the Harrison Fords. We don't have that.

• 1:55:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz everyone's fucking British now.

• 1:55:28Speaker 05

  And they just like look-

• 1:55:29Bill Simmons?

  We don't produce American actors anymore who can play this part. They're all British dudes.

• 1:55:33Speaker 05

  They're too pretty. Everyone's too manicured, ripped now, you know?

• 1:55:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like Shalamar, I'm not buying is Roy McAvoy.

• 1:55:39Speaker 05

  It's like maybe Glenn Powell, but Glenn Powell's also-

• 1:55:42Speaker 06

  He's too pretty too.

• 1:55:43Speaker 05

  He's too pretty. He's really good looking.

• 1:55:45Speaker 06

  Shia LaBeouf.

• 1:55:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, Costner's really good looking though.

• 1:55:47Speaker 05

  I think Costner's a little bit more gruff.

• 1:55:49Bill Simmons?

  I, I think you, you hit it. I think it might be Glenn Powell.

• 1:55:52Speaker 05

  Glenn Powell?

• 1:55:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he would just have to basically kind of bang himself up a little bit.

• 1:55:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:55:58Speaker 06

  See, I think, I said when we watched it, I think Costner was too pretty for this. I didn't, I think it would have been better with like Michael Keaton.

• 1:56:05Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:56:06Speaker 06

  Like a disheveled Michael Keaton, like down on his luck and he'd be like a little wisecracky, you know? Costner, you're not gonna buy that he's like down on his luck and living in a trailer. He's too good looking.

• 1:56:16Speaker 05

  Rene Russo's not throwing it all away for Keaton.

• 1:56:18Speaker 06

  Well, that's fair.

• 1:56:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's, that's the thing.

• 1:56:20Speaker 06

  You gotta get rid of her in the movie too, man, if you're going Keaton.

• 1:56:22Speaker 05

  Now you just have two mediocre looking people.

• 1:56:24Bill Simmons?

  One thing that happens in movies like this is the, the people around the person who's already fucked up his life, who are also throwing away their lives to basically be in his cult.

• 1:56:33Speaker 06

  Hitch their wagon.

• 1:56:34Bill Simmons?

  It's like, what is, Cheech and Ched's like 48 at this point. When, when do you give up on Roy McAvoy?

• 1:56:39Speaker 05

  He's in love with Roy, let's be honest.

• 1:56:42Bill Simmons?

  So that's where you might go in the-

• 1:56:43Speaker 05

  You know?

• 1:56:45Bill Simmons?

  Then he steps in with the, oh, to get, maybe to make Roy jealous.

• 1:56:48Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 1:56:49Bill Simmons?

  It's like, I'm now I'm with your 58 year old ex-girlfriend.

• 1:56:52Speaker 06

  The whole crew of that guys, like what, what does their life choice led to where like you're just hanging out at this down in the market, down, you know, down in the mouth, driving range where there's no money to be made and there's no, no clientele. And you just hang out and drink beer and like shoot the shit.

• 1:57:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, 30 years later, they're on their way to January 6th.

• 1:57:16Bill Simmons?

  Heard there's something going on in DC.

• 1:57:18Speaker 05

  Is there a Waffle House in DC?

• 1:57:20Bill Simmons?

  Let's make a run. All right, that was a really fun, interesting rewatchables.

• 1:57:24Speaker 06

  It's good. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

• 1:57:26Bill Simmons?

  Executive produced by John O'Connell. Okay, Jacko?

• 1:57:28Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:57:29Bill Simmons?

  Thanks to Craig. I don't get to ask you what, uh, we thought about the movie since, uh, you're one of the co-hosts. Joe House, pleasure as always. Thanks to Gahout and Ronik as well. And, uh, we'll be back next week on the rewatchables.

• 1:57:53Speaker 09

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• 1:58:23Speaker 05

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