#2262 - Dr. Mark Gordon

Dr. Mark Gordon is an expert in the field of neuroregenerative medicine and the treatment of Traumatic Brain Injuries. www.millenniumhealthstore.com This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Get working on a better you with therapy. Visit BetterHelp.com/JRE today to get 10% off your first month. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you again, my friend.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Hey. It's always great to be here.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  It's been awhile.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Four years, January 8th, no, January 15th.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  Was it really?

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:23Joe Rogan?

  Four years, geez.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been four years.

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  The last time you were here, right?

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  I think the last two.

• 0:29Joe Rogan?

  That was like right after, a couple of months after I moved here.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Moved here, yeah.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so almost exactly four years.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:35Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Well, waiting was great.

• 0:39Joe Rogan?

  Waiting?

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Waiting, I mean, the time, four years, waiting to have another chat with you, because so much has gone on since last we met.

• 0:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, tell me, what's going on?

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Where do you want to start, A, Z?

• 0:53Joe Rogan?

  Anywhere.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Anywhere. Let's see, you know, the family's expanding, which is great, all three daughters have been married and each has a grandchild, which is making me feel old, so I've ramped up, stepped up my hormonal treatment to keep me on the edge, because I want to be around a lot longer to take care of these kids, or to be with the kids. They're just 16 months, but they're still fantastic.

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. I love it.

• 1:20Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely love it. But in the world that I work in, in the medical arena, it's been expanding rapidly. The new administration has a part to play in it, which is great, but even before that, the number of results that we're having, the outcome from TBI, PTSD, and what have you, has been accelerating because of some of our testing that we do, as well as our treatment that we've initiated that's changed since four years ago, since last time.

• 1:50Joe Rogan?

  What have you added in the last four years?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Well, we've added a lot more neutropic, excuse me, not nutraceuticals, natural products into our regiment. You know, I spent 16 years looking at the science behind things that can get into the brain and alter the inflammation that occurs in the brain. The whole premise of everything that I've been doing for the last Last thirty day, thirty years has been based upon inflammation in the brain. And the inflammation is what stops all the chemistry and why we develop anger and, you know, problems. I don't know if you saw the article, which is called Influence of Media on the Mental Health of America, which used to be called the Trump Derangement Syndrome, but I got so much backlash from having that title. People wouldn't read it because of the title.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  And it talks about how constant stress from the media, echo chambers, social media, reading all this bullshit, causes cortisol to go up.

• 2:42Joe Rogan?

  No doubt.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  And it shuts down a chemical that protects your brain called fractalkin. And then it starts dumping all this inflammation and causes loss of serotonin, so you become more depressed. It causes loss of melatonin, so you can't sleep. Generates another group of chemicals that induce depression.

• 2:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it essentially generates this response in your body that prepares itself for a fight that never takes place.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 3:07Joe Rogan?

  And then you're always thinking you're about to get into some sort of a physical altercation with the armed enemy coming over the top of the hill.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, vigilant state, just like our army goes through, constant stress.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And, and the thing, the army and a lot of these people that you've worked with is from IEDs and from blowing through doors and stuff like that, they get damage to their pituitary gland. You know, we've talked about it many, many times on the podcast.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  But I think one of the misperceptions is, as you said, and I apologize for that, is that we think it's all due to pituitary gland, but it isn't. In the work that we've been doing, it shows that when you have inflammation in the brain, regardless of how it's developed, whether or not it's IED or slip and fall, or as we've talked in the past, even wave runners, ski do's, or skiing, or water skiing, snow skiing, or going to the range, the 50 caliber gunners. What happens is it creates this inflammation that shuts off the ability of the brain to regulate the pituitary gland. So you can do all the MRIs as they do at the VA, and they see a normal pituitary gland and says, oh, pituitary is normal, you've got PTSD.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  But there's no radiological or neuroradiological procedure that'll allow you to look at inflammation in the brain. So they assume.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  They can't find any structural damage, that it has to be all psychiatric.

• 4:32Joe Rogan?

  Sort of like when they used to have to diagnose CTE after you're already dead.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 4:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Isn't that how they're doing it now?

• 4:40Joe Rogan?

  No, I think they can scan for it now.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  There's a PET scan that can look for the tau protein.

• 4:44Joe Rogan?

  Is that what it is?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, tau proteins, hyperphospholated tau becomes these NFTs, these neurofibril tangles, which is an interesting issue. It's been part of my last year of deep dive, trying to find out, why is it that you develop CTE, or the symptoms relative to CTE? Why is it that you develop the symptoms relative to Parkinson's, or Alzheimer's, or multiple sclerosis? Well, it turns out that the biochemistry is all the same. Something called beta amyloid, which is the hallmark for someone with Alzheimer's disease, and then these tau proteins, hyperphospholated tau proteins that they call NFTs, that they circulate around the blood vessels, and they create this intense inflammation.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  And that intense inflammation causes loss of blood supply, damage to neurons, and you develop it. So we've had, using our protocol, we have our sixth case of multiple sclerosis that was totally put into remission. It took 90 days to put him in remission. It was a lieutenant. Yeah, it's a video up on.

• 5:53Joe Rogan?

  And what's the protocol that did that?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  The protocol is the nutraceutical that drops the inflammation and replacing the hormones that are deficient that protect the brain.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  What is in the nutraceutical?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  In the nutraceuticals, there is quercetin. You know about quercetin?

• 6:10Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  It's got EDA, DHA from omegas. It has in it glutathione, enecylcysteine, it's got B12.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  That's on one component of it. The other component has B1, B2, which deals with neurocommunication. And then it's that PQQ and CoQ10. PQQ is a form of CoQ10. It's a sister.

• 6:36Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  And it's a hundred to a thousand times stronger, but it's what it does. It increases mitochondrial function. I know you've had a lot of people here talking about mitochondrial function, and that's a major piece in how to reverse things like neurodegenerative diseases and improve mental functioning.

• 6:53Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I mean, products like you have, like AlphaBrain, you know, has an effect on improving mitochondrial function, and that's what you want to do. That's a key. So you have to drop the inflammation because inflammation causes mitochondria that produce ATP. It causes mitochondrial dysfunction. So in all those neurodegenerative diseases, mitochondrial dysfunction has been ignored in the past, and you need to address it. So PQQ and CoQ10 are two very, very potent. When added together, they stimulate mitochondrial ATP production and replication of mitochondria. Quercetin does the same thing. That's why it's so important. So...

• 7:37Joe Rogan?

  Quercetin, you were explaining to me before that it's an ionophore.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 7:41Joe Rogan?

  And that it gets ions into the bloodstream better, so it's when you consume it with zinc.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:47Joe Rogan?

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• 8:32Joe Rogan?

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• 9:09Speaker 01

  But.

• 9:09Joe Rogan?

  But.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  That's one. That's one of its functions, but there are five functions that it has. Quercetin is amazing. It's an ionophore, which is when we talked about COVID and zinc. It carries zinc into the cell to shut down the ability of the COVID SARS from replicating.

• 9:26Joe Rogan?

  Or antivirus, essentially, right?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Well, it works with SARS and it works with influenza A and B. It works with rhinovirus and enterovirus, gut viruses that you can get during summertime.

• 9:37Joe Rogan?

  So what I was just getting at is it's beneficial for people all year round, not just

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 9:42Joe Rogan?

  people that think they might be getting COVID.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So I take 500 milligrams twice a day.

• 9:47Joe Rogan?

  Of quercetin and how much zinc with that?

• 9:49Speaker 01

  30 milligrams.

• 9:51Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  I take 30.

• 9:51Joe Rogan?

  And you do that twice a day?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  I do that, the quercetin twice a day, but zinc, because my levels are where they're at, I don't put a lot of zinc in because zinc's involved in about 300 processes in the body. It's antiviral that we just talked about. It's anti-Alzheimer's because it turns out that the production of the chemical called beta amyloid, there's an enzyme that regulates it and it's zinc dependent. So if it's working, it's called secretase. It's called alpha secretase. It's zinc dependent. Beta secretase is not. So beta secretase takes and makes the beta amyloid that causes the Alzheimer's, the inflammation. And with that inflammation, you then start getting the same thing in CTE.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  So in all these inflammatory conditions, they have the same beta amyloid and cause for CTE, the hyperphospholated tau protein that we call NFTs, neurofibril tangles. So they're all related. So what quercetin does is it increases mitochondrial replication in about seven days, doubles the amount of mitochondria intracellularly. It helps increase in the liver, something called IGF binding protein three, insulin like binding protein three. Binding protein three is always looked at as being the carrier for IGF one, insulin like growth factor, growth hormone, turns on in the liver, the production of insulin

• 11:21Speaker 01

  like growth factor, which is the main below the neck growth factor for our body, improves protein synthesis, decreases inflammation too.

• 11:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow, okay. A sidetrack, when you're talking about beta amyloid and Alzheimer's, wasn't there a significant amount of fraud that was exposed about Alzheimer's studies that put into question a lot of the ideas that people had about Alzheimer's? Wasn't that something that happened recently?

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Well, in the train of thought on Alzheimer's, you know, they're saying that it's due to the recessive genes. Well, if you look at the real, the studies recently, 95% of the cases of Alzheimer's disease appear to be due to trauma and aging, trauma and aging, only five percent.

• 12:13Joe Rogan?

  So trauma, like head trauma?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Head trauma. Because what happens is trauma stimulates the brain because of inflammation to increase the production of beta amyloid. And it's because there's, they found recently another secretase. What secretases are, are the enzymes that convert a protein called APP.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Alzheimer's precursor protein. And it's a long protein. And two enzymes go in and clip it here and clip it here. And that piece is beta amyloid. That's the bad stuff. That's a beta secretase and a gamma secretase. But they also have something called alpha secretase. So if alpha secretase and gamma secretase cut this APP, it generates alpha amyloid, which is inert. Not inflammatory.

• 13:04Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  So what did they find recently? Something called delta secretase. Delta secretase and gamma gives you beta amyloid. So how do you generate delta secretase in the body? Trauma, aging. So that's why most of the cases of Alzheimer's disease are inflammatory based. So what are the things that?

• 13:30Joe Rogan?

  I'm sorry, but on most cases, is there a certain age where people start to develop it? And has there been any cases of very young people to get Alzheimer's?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  There's a young form of Alzheimer's, and that might be directly due to having had head trauma and developing this delta amyloid or delta secretase generating amyloid, beta amyloid that creates the Alzheimer's disease. As you get older, sixty-five years of age and above, that is, could be five percent genetic. But I think what the literature is really speaking towards is that it's all has an inflammatory basis. Remember, trauma in the brain equates out to inflammatory processes. It's part of the brain's ability to try and protect us.

• 14:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Okay? Remove junk, bacteria, mold, viruses from the brain, and also metabolites of abnormal metabolism in the brain.

• 14:25Joe Rogan?

  What was the scandal? The Alzheimer's research scandal? Because it was pretty significant. And they were saying that it throws into question all of these previous assumptions and therapies that they were providing for Alzheimer's disease. And this person had made a significant amount of money.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's the antibodies. It's the treatment protocols, the antibodies against beta amyloid. And they found that even though you're against beta amyloid, you were still progressing on to develop symptoms of Alzheimer's disease.

• 14:58Joe Rogan?

  But they were talking about fraud. This was like fraud in scientific research.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is recent.

• 15:04Joe Rogan?

  How a retracted paper affected the course of Alzheimer's research.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  But it's one paper and what was the focus of?

• 15:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay, June 2024 landmark Alzheimer's research paper, yep, was retracted due to fraud allegations. Do we waste billions of dollars and thousands of hours of scientist's time? Maybe not. Air new potentially hopeful drugs on the market, targeting the subject of the paper, amyloid beta. The review, video breaks down the amyloid beta hypothesis, the fraud itself, and where we go from here. So what is the fraud itself, Jamie? Does it say? So you can find an article that's just not a video, not attached to a video?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Beta amyloid data, see, they've been relying on beta amyloid as being the focus. And what they're finding is the treatment that addresses beta amyloid, the antibody against beta amyloid, people are still getting a progression of the disease.

• 15:52Joe Rogan?

  I understand this, but I just want to know what the, what the fraud was.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 15:56Joe Rogan?

  So what is the fraud? Amyloid hypothesis, scroll down a little bit, Jamie. What's the fraud? Where does it get to the, what, what did the paper bullshit about?

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Putting it into perspective.

• 16:08Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Okay. Fifty-six paper lead to, hmm.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  But later published and failed to find.

• 16:19Joe Rogan?

  Where's the fraud?

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  What's it say? Uh, let me try a different search. Yeah, just find out like what was the, this seems like very involved. This is a science journal.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Well, you know that in, there are papers that have been written about reproducibility.

• 16:38Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Reproducibility is where a researcher does a paper, makes a claim about the results of his science, and then people look at that and they want to go and reproduce it to prove it. They found that 70% of them can't be reproduced. And when you looked at the actual scientist who did the original work, goes back and tries to reproduce it, 70% failure rate.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  So there are major publications that have talked about this reproducibility error. I mean, you can go on to, you know, Google Scholar or else into Google and look at reproducibility.

• 17:12Joe Rogan?

  Okay, here it is. But over the past two years, questions have arisen about some of Masala, how do you say his name? Masila?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Masala.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  Masia?

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Masala.

• 17:22Joe Rogan?

  Maslia? Maslia? Maslia? Maslia's research. Science Investigation has now found that scores of his lab studies at UCSD and NIA are riddled with apparently falsified Western blots, images used to show the presence of proteins and micrographs of brain tissue. Numerous images seem to have been inappropriate, really reused within the, within and across papers, sometimes published years apart in different journals, describing divergent experimental conditions. After Science brought initial concerns about Maslia's work to their attention, the neuroscientists and forensic analysts specializing in scientific work who'd previously worked with Science produced a 300-page dossier revealing a steady

• 18:07Joe Rogan?

  stream of suspect images between 1997 and 2023, and 132 of his published research papers. Science did not pay them for their work. In our opinion, this pattern of anomalous data raises credible concern for research misconduct and calls into question a remarkably large body of scientific work.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so it seems like the fact that he was reusing the same images,

• 18:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  stating that they were new images.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  So he was stacking the deck in his favor.

• 18:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Because he had a point to make.

• 18:41Joe Rogan?

  God, that's so gross.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. $2.6 billion.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  That's what the budget was.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  That's the National Institute of Health, yeah.

• 18:48Joe Rogan?

  Jeez. Dwarfs the rest of the National Institute, the NIA combined.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  He was in charge of the Division of Neuroscience.

• 18:56Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy. So the budget of the Division of Neuroscience alone was $2.6 billion in the last fiscal year. And this guy was a key leader for the effort.

• 19:10Joe Rogan?

  Man, how gross. But that's pressure and competition and very ambitious people who have shitty morals.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:17Joe Rogan?

  Right? That's what that is.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Yes. Publisher perish.

• 19:20Joe Rogan?

  Publisher perish is the motto, right?

• 19:22Speaker 01

  That's the motto. If they don't publish and have a positive finding, they're not going to get funding for the next project that they have.

• 19:28Joe Rogan?

  And when someone does publish, like this gentleman who allegedly published falsified data, is there someone who goes over that stuff to make sure that that's not the case?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. The editors of the journal that he's presenting it to.

• 19:42Joe Rogan?

  Right. But is there preferential treatment for people that are established scientists that are thought to be beyond criticism?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Theoretically.

• 19:51Joe Rogan?

  Like a gentleman like this who has an enormous position of power and a $2.6 billion budget behind him?

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Well, but look.

• 19:56Joe Rogan?

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• 21:27Joe Rogan?

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• 22:58Speaker 01

  The bottom line: which pharmaceutical company was involved in it? Okay? Which pharmaceutical? And, you know, that's one of the problems that, you know, RFK Jr. will be generating, is that as he finds that this science is 70%, you can't reproduce it, meaning that it's maybe not accurate? Maybe there's a little bit of bias?

• 23:25Joe Rogan?

  That's being kind.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  I'm trying to be kind.

• 23:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because otherwise it's fraudulent, right?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  It is, correct.

• 23:30Joe Rogan?

  I was just reading an article about Alzheimer's that was claiming that Alzheimer's didn't even exist until modern times.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Statins.

• 23:38Joe Rogan?

  Statins cause Alzheimer's? Is that what you're saying? This, this article was connecting it to our diet. The standard American diet. And they were saying that all the bullshit food that people eat is contributing to this, uh, this condition. And I was, what I was gonna get to use that would lead to inflammation, correct?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  You got it.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  Cause the bullshit American diet filled with crap is terrible for you and that leads to inflammation.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  You look at the inflammatory neurodegenerative diseases. What does everyone have now? It says a low inflammatory diet.

• 24:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  That's what it talks about. Also in HIIT, in high impact, uh, interval training and high impact aerobics. What happens is you can increase a chemical in the brain called brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is something that helps to improve neuron to neuron communication and neurology of your brain. And I don't know if you saw, we have, uh, one of your favorite guys Gerald McClellan. I don't know if you've seen some of the papers that have come out. He had a stroke in 95, uh, fighting, um, Nigel Benn in London. And during that fight, it was a horrible fight, if you've ever seen the...

• 24:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a crazy fight, yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  So anyway, he had a stroke from that and was hospitalized for 11 days in a coma in ICU in London. Gets out, his sister Lisa McClellan refuses to put him into a nursing home, into a hospice health, takes him into the house in Chicago and for 29 years dealt with him. She develops an organization called, um, Ring of Brotherhood where Muhammad Ali's niece and son, I think are part of it. And they take care of, um, boxers who are leaving the ring who have symptoms. Punch drunk or what do they call it? Uh, precoc's or pugilistic, dementia pugilistic, yeah.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  And she contacted me and, uh, told me about her brother and I looked at stuff and what we did was we set up a fund and we paid for his laboratory work and his initial assessment. And we found he was hormonally deficient. So what we ended up doing is putting him on to the hormone replacement and to... One of the peptides that we use, which is called Naceal Cmax, which stimulates the brain to produce more brain-derived neurotrophic factor. He's in Chicago, I'm in California, or here in Texas, in Magnolia, and one of our docs in Chicago took the lead. I just gave her what to do.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  He's 20% better in four months on the protocol. He's now remembering things, he's communicating, he's on the phone, and a boxing journalist, Oliver Fennel, came from London to Chicago and wrote a paper, which is called "The Day in the Life of Gerald McClellan," and talks about how, what happened, and where he's gone. And he's had some improvement.

• 26:36Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Twenty, yeah, phenomenal, 20% improvement.

• 26:39Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure, we talked about Rick Perry before the podcast started, so I'm sure you're aware of his push to legalize Ibogaine and start using Ibogaine for people with traumatic brain injuries, and he was talking about how it regenerates neural tissue and helps people significantly. And then on top of that, the addiction issue, where people have addictions, and Ibogaine is incredible for curing those, like literally curing them. And one, in one, with one session, it's in the 80% range. With two sessions, it's in the, it's somewhere around 97%, which is just crazy. 93 to 97.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Phenomenal. I give a lot of credit to Rick Perry. In 2022, they had HB1802, which is the first bill in any state where the state put money into a research project at Baylor for, it was for psilocybin, is where he started. So it was Rick Perry, Andrew Marr was part of it, along with Dr. Martin.

• 27:44Joe Rogan?

  Shout out to our friend Andrew.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Hello, Andrew. And, let's see, Dr. Martin Polanco, who I'll cycle back to because the Ibogaine issue is what he helped to develop. So, it was also Representative Alex Dominguez, who helped to push it through to get the funding for it. And it's at Baylor with a doctor by the name of Lynette Avril, PhD. She's, I believe, the one who's in charge of it. But recently, you know, we have ayahuasca, we've got Ibogaine, we've got LSD, we've got MMTA. The Ibogaine seems to be really good for addiction and for neuroregeneration, which is what you were talking about, to improvement in the neural function.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Downside is the cardiovascular, so it has to always be under a very strict, very close observation.

• 28:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  And the doctor that I talked about, MD Martin Polanco, who has clinics in Mexico, uses Ibogaine. And one of our new vets who came on board in one of the other states, set up a 508 charitable organization. The 8 is a religious organization. He imports Ibogaine from, I think it's Chile, and gets it here in the States and then sends it to Mexico to Dr. Polanco to do studies. So, right now, I believe he has the largest group of studies. And one of the things that really has to be looked at is the compassionate use of these products.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  You've got guys that are coming back from war, who everything isn't working, you know, everything. So, you have to start pulling the stops out and treat them. I mean, if you really want them to get better.

• 29:32Joe Rogan?

  Especially when there's real evidence that there's not just anecdotal evidence that they work, but there's actual scientific

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 29:39Joe Rogan?

  ...evidence of their effectiveness. There's mechanisms, we understand.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Right. So, I think I showed, might have sent you a preliminary paper I'm working on, on the neurotransmitters, to identify how each one of the psychedelic-assisted therapeutic agents work in the brain. And the science is already out there. So, what does it tell you? The foundation for how they work, why they work, and how they work is already there. So, why aren't we using it?

• 30:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, because of a stupid law that was passed in nineteen seventy to punish Richard Nixon's political opponents. That's really what it is. Was it? Yeah, that's what it is. It was about the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. And so, one of the ways to get at these people, they knew that one of the, the big shifts of culture, if you go back to, like, we talk about it ad nauseam on the podcast, but there's just a gigantic shift in culture from the nineteen fifties to the nineteen sixties. It's almost unimaginable the amount of change that takes place. And what you have to imagine as a person today is two thousand fifteen. Now, you think in time, things accelerate even more rapidly and change is more exponential. It's more crazy in time.

• 30:50Joe Rogan?

  And it's kind of sort of true with some technologies, especially today with AI. But if you go back to two thousand fifteen, and if you were just driving around in two thousand fifteen, everything is essentially the same. The phones look pretty much the same, the cars look pretty much the same, there's not much difference. There's not much difference in your life. If you go from nineteen fifty-nine to nineteen sixty-nine, you have a totally different fucking world. You have a totally different world of culture, totally different world of movies, totally different world of music, totally different world of automobile design, you have a totally different world that I believe is inspired by psychedelic drugs. And when Nixon throws the water on the psychedelic movement in nineteen seventy and makes them

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  all Schedule I, including things that aren't even psychoactive, by the way, missed a bunch of really good ones. Missed a bunch of really good ones that are still legal. Um, one of them was, uh, salvia, which is fucking bananas, insanely potent psychedelic drug that was completely legal. Um, so, if you look at it culturally, you see this shift, you see the movies get clunkier and goofy. Yep. You see the cars start to look like shit, you see the music starts to suck, it starts to be like real frivolous and very surface, it's very, it's cocaine music. Yeah. Right? It's not, it's not Led Zeppelin. It's not psychedelic music, it's not the Doors. Jimi Hendrix. It's not Hendrix.

• 32:17Joe Rogan?

  It's not voodoo child, you know, it's something completely divorced from feeling. Right? And this is because of Richard Nixon.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're basically saying the importance of psychedelics in expanding the visions that we have to advance our culture and society has been removed.

• 32:36Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 32:38Joe Rogan?

  We talked about the sympathetic use.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:41Joe Rogan?

  There's, you know, there's people compassionate use. There's people that are gonna use things and they're gonna abuse things. Just like you and I are having a glass of whiskey. Cheers, sir.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:50Joe Rogan?

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• 33:34Joe Rogan?

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• 34:07Joe Rogan?

  But we are.

• 34:10Joe Rogan?

  Responsible adults.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  I'm entitled to a refill?

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  Yes, sir.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:13Joe Rogan?

  There you go.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Get in there, you fucking drunk.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  I took my glutathione.

• 34:17Joe Rogan?

  I know you did.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Do you know?

• 34:18Joe Rogan?

  I know you did.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  I apologize. I finally went back and listened to our first podcast for 38 from August 8th, 2012.

• 34:29Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Damn, that long ago?

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Wild.

• 34:32Joe Rogan?

  13 years ago?

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Wild. It was wild. And the thing that stuck out was glutathione. So I started this morning with my glutathione.

• 34:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Because I knew we were going to finish this bottle.

• 34:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, well, I'm not finishing that bottle. There's not a chance in hell. I have stuff to do.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 34:47Joe Rogan?

  And I just worked out.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Did you take glutathione?

• 34:50Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I haven't taken it yet.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  No, I take it every night. Sure. If you got some, go get me some. I take it, uh, every night. I take liposomal.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  That's what that is.

• 35:01Joe Rogan?

  There you go. Oh, this, I have to suck on this right? It's like, shit.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, no.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  Brain rescue number three.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  Is this your company? Uh, Millennium. Yeah, it's Millennium.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's our product. And that is our core product for fixing the guys with, uh, TBI.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. How's the new flavor?

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  That's actually good.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 35:19Joe Rogan?

  That actually doesn't taste bad at all. I was getting nervous.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 35:21Joe Rogan?

  When you're eating something out of a tube. You said like-

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Depends on whose tube it is.

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Isn't that true? It's not actually even a tube. I don't know why I said a tube. It's a packet, like a ketchup packet.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  There you go. But it's not ketchup.

• 35:33Joe Rogan?

  But it doesn't taste bad at all.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:35Joe Rogan?

  Um, but yeah, you turned me on to glutathione a decade ago. A decade plus.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  13.

• 35:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Long time ago.

• 35:41Joe Rogan?

  Long time ago. Um, but, yeah, because of meeting you, I mean, I really ramped up all of my nutritional supplements. You know, in a big way. Because back then, when I first met you, had to be 15 years ago, right? Somewhere around there?

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:56Joe Rogan?

  At least. Um, when I first met you, I was just basically taking multivitamins. I wasn't really like strict about it. And then when you started doing blood work and explaining things to me and, you know, and breaking down the nutritional deficiencies, like you need niacin, you need this, you need that. And I started taking all that stuff and it's, it makes a significant difference. It really does. And I talked to a lot of people that are skeptical about vitamins and they talked to their doctors. Fortunately, and the reality is that you're very educated in this department, but many doctors have a cursory at best, understanding of nutrition. Their specialty is their specialty. If they're a urologist, or they're an orthopedic surgeon, that's their specialty. And most of them are very unhealthy, unfortunately.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  And they're under the illusion that you can get everything that you need to live optimally with a balanced diet. That's horse shit, people.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 36:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you notice it eventually. Look, when I go on vacation, I've gone on vacation before, like seven day vacations and not taken vitamins with me.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  It feels shitty.

• 36:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:59Joe Rogan?

  Like, I feel different. Like, at the end of seven days, I'm like, Jesus, I need some fucking vitamins. So I don't do that anymore.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:05Joe Rogan?

  Now, when I go on vacation, I take vitamins with me. I'm like, what's the big deal? I pack underwear, pack my fucking vitamins, and I just make sure that I have everything that I need. And if I don't do that, I don't feel the same. And I think it's just the difference between being alive, do you need to be alive? No. But we're not talking about just alive, we're talking about optimization. And if you want to feel better, and everybody does, you should take vitamins. And you should take a bunch, you should take a lot of different stuff.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. One of the, one of the times you're talking about our progression throughout time, back in the 90s, doctors were against vitamins, saying that it's expensive urine, expensive flushing down the toilet. You remember that?

• 37:48Joe Rogan?

  My doctor told me that.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then what happened? And then all the science started coming out, saying how we needed B12 because our nutrition was devoid, because the soil not being rotated, devoid in the nutrients to feed the plants to give us our...

• 38:02Joe Rogan?

  I thought B12 was essentially from animals.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  It is, muscle, from muscle, but talking about B complex, really. You know, you can get it in plants as well. But it's the trace elements as well, the minerals. And without having adequate amount in, you've got to replenish it. And if you don't replenish it, you lose important, you know, pathways.

• 38:22Joe Rogan?

  What about folks that are getting their food organically? They're getting like, they go to a farmer's market, they get really good organic groceries?

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Most of the organic people supplement the animals with quality supplementation food.

• 38:36Joe Rogan?

  I mean, organic vegetables.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Organic vegetables. Uh, you know, or to be organic, you can't have pesticides on it. You can't have heavy metals. So it has to be nutritionally enriched with positive, um, uh, soil. They might.

• 38:53Joe Rogan?

  Compost.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  They might put additives in it.

• 38:55Joe Rogan?

  Ideally, you'd like just a natural process of compost and manure and stuff like that. And that's where.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  I, I use chicken shit on.

• 39:03Joe Rogan?

  Perfect. Chicken shit's great, right?

• 39:05Speaker 01

  It works. Yeah. I've got some great lemons and vegetables.

• 39:09Joe Rogan?

  Do you know that people used to go to war over bat shit?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Oguano. Yes.

• 39:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:14Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:15Joe Rogan?

  Like, guano was so important for fertilizer.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  For not only fertilized, then it became, uh, the, the base foundation for lipstick and eyeliner. Yeah.

• 39:24Joe Rogan?

  Bat shit was the foundation for lipstick?

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Look up guano.

• 39:27Joe Rogan?

  Ew. You imagine kissing someone, they got bat shit lipstick on?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Guano wars.

• 39:31Joe Rogan?

  Ugh. Yeah, they really did have guano wars. Isn't that nuts? Isn't that where bat shit crazy came from?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Crazy is bat shit, bat shit?

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  I think the term bat shit crazy, I think that had something to do with how feverant people would fight in a war over bat shit. Is it fervent? Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, fervent. Yeah, it's a good word. I like bat shit.

• 39:54Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of words I don't use, but I, I read them.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:56Joe Rogan?

  And then when it's time to use them, I'm like, that's the appropriate word. I'm like, how do you fucking say that?

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:01Joe Rogan?

  But I think that's where the term bat shit crazy came from. In one bizarre blink, guano ruled US agriculture and the world. How fertilizer madness sparked into a turd war and turned guano into gold. Yeah, man. People needed that for fertilizer.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Does it talk about the cosmetic use of guano?

• 40:21Joe Rogan?

  Fountain of youth. The bat shit's the fountain of youth?

• 40:26Speaker 01

  It's, I, what is it? The nitrogen, uh, composition of it is very good for, uh, growth of plants.

• 40:32Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. This is interesting. It says, prior to modern science and agriculture, the whys and hows of soil health largely were mysterious. How soil additives functioned or the knowledge of which minerals were needed and when was the realm of the blind. Beyond animal manure, farmers added soil amendments to. By the barrel, compost, human waste, fish, coal brat products, chalk, or whatever unholy concoction was hawked by the latest charlatan to pull, to pull up in a wagon at town's edge and promise a yield bloom. Decade upon decade, the pitfalls of fertilization tormented growers until 1802, when German explorer and scientist Alexander von Humboldt strolled down a waterfront in Peru and felt his nose

• 41:14Joe Rogan?

  hairs curl in ammonia rebellion and an odor emanating from barge loads of yellow brown cake guano. Von Humboldt was told the stinking bird droppings covered the nearby Chinchilla Islands in deep layers and were massively popular with Peruvian farmers. So this is interesting. So that's how they started doing this. So this is in the 1800s.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Can I read the next sentence?

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Okay. A little dabble do ya. Curiosity building the nostril burning von Humboldt took home a scoop of guano to Europe and turned the spigot on agricultural fountain of youth, i.e. he sparked a fertile fertilizer war.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  You know what's the interesting, most interesting stuff about fertilizer?

• 41:54Speaker 01

  It's shit to me.

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the moment, did you know that soil that they have in the Amazon that was created by man?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's called Terra Prata. And Graham Hancock told me about it. It's, there's a very specific soil in the Amazon that they think people from, you know, thousands of years ago figured out how to make. And this is like some sort of a compost process and it's a very dark soil called Terra Prata. And this dark soil that exists on the surface layer of a lot of the Amazon was put there by man. And not just put there by man, but created, like they had a process that they have not replicated to this day. They don't know what it is or how they did it. But they're very aware that there was a process involved in making this stuff and that it's not a natural process of this stuff forming.

• 42:48Joe Rogan?

  At least that's what he said.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  That's what he said.

• 42:51Joe Rogan?

  But let me see, show him some terra prata. It's pretty fascinating.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  So it's a dark, a dark, dark earth, yeah.

• 42:58Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's very interesting, because you see it and you're like, this is, uh, that's what it looks like. So you see the terra prater is on the surface, and then you go below it and you just get like regular dirt. But this terra prata made everything very, very rich. And, you know, it grew so much plants. It's just like, do you know that the Amazon is mostly human-planted plants? That grew out of control? Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Who planted it?

• 43:25Joe Rogan?

  The original settlers of the Amaz- this is the theory, right? So, they know now that the Amazon was heavily populated. They didn't, used to think that. They used to think there was just this crazy wild jungle and there's indigenous populations to live inside of it. Well, at one point in time, there were cities. So there's grids, they found indications of, you know, some sort of, uh, transportation of water. They had, like, streets, they had grids that indicate there were structures there all throughout, from the use of lidar.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Oh, sure, from satellite.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so, well, it's from, actually drones.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 44:01Joe Rogan?

  So they fly over with drones and they scan the area. They probably could use satellites too, but they, they use drones, they scan the air, and even airplanes. They scan the area and then they get these images that show these geometric patterns that exist below. And so they've unearthed a lot of these and so now they think there were millions of people living in the Amazon. And that what probably happened was Europeans came over and gave them all smallpox.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the theory. That's what killed everybody.

• 44:28Joe Rogan?

  Ninety percent of Native Americans. But what was done there was done in a place where they had made this environment with terra prata and just because of the, you know, the lush rainforest, it's like, it rains constantly and vegetation grows so well, that as soon as they were gone, within a couple hundred years, everything's consumed by the jungle. And then you had, lead thousands and thousands and thousands of years in the future, there's nothing left. And that's what they think they're looking at when they're looking at these large sections of the Amazon that have these patterns and structures that indicate civilization.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty wild.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I start my mornings looking at archaeology.

• 45:08Joe Rogan?

  You do?

• 45:08Speaker 01

  I get, yeah, I look at archaeology, but the archaeology that I look at in Leider is in Europe. Because, you know, I collect ancient coins from Europe, from Italy and Germany and so forth and Spain. And I've seen the photos where they go over and they see the foundation, as you said, in the structures that are manmade structures.

• 45:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  So it's neat.

• 45:30Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years

• 46:15Joe Rogan?

  longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier.

• 47:00Joe Rogan?

  And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to TheFarmer'sDog.com/Rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Stuff. It just makes you wonder. How many of those exist out there, you know, in the Mexican jungles and in the Guatemalan jungles? And that we don't even know about?

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Toltecs, Aztecs, Mayan.

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  There's probably a ton of them back there. There's probably a bunch of stuff because the Amazon is so huge. And most of it is not explored. Most of it is, you know, there's a bunch of different uncontacted tribes that live in there.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:51Joe Rogan?

  In fact, my friend Paul Rosley, do you know who Paul Rosley is?

• 47:54Speaker 01

  No, is he the one, the archaeology?

• 47:56Joe Rogan?

  No. He's essentially working to save the brain forest. And what he does is he goes down there and he hires these people that were loggers to have a new job. And the new job is to protect the forest instead. And they've saved like shit, I don't know what the number is, but incredible large number of acres. They've saved this way and they continue to do this and they're trying to work with these people and try to stop them from just destroying the Amazon.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  I think Sting donated a large amount of money to the Brazilian Amazon. And a lot of entertainers who have donated a lot of money to protect it.

• 48:33Joe Rogan?

  So my friend Paul, he runs into uncontacted tribes all the time.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Really?

• 48:37Joe Rogan?

  Many times.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Love to go there.

• 48:38Joe Rogan?

  He sent me a video the other day that I can't share. It's crazy. These uncontacted tribes, these naked people in the jungle in 2025.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:47Joe Rogan?

  It's really wild.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they live in isolation.

• 48:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but well, you know, isolation from what? From us assholes?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  From us.

• 48:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but they, they live the, the way people lived, you know, a hundred thousand years ago. And I would, God, if I could be a fly on the wall, can you imagine the documentary? If we get really good at drones, to the point where you can have a, a bunch of drones that really do look like insects and fly them in there and film these folks?

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:13Joe Rogan?

  And just without them being, but the problem then, people would want to go visit them. You know, and then they fuck everything up.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to kept, keep it hidden like your video you were talking about because the.

• 49:23Joe Rogan?

  That's the reason why he doesn't want the video to get out. He doesn't want people to know that there's these people out there. And there's a lot of them. He said, well, one of his friends was killed. One of his friends was murdered by these people.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  With the darts.

• 49:37Joe Rogan?

  No, they got it with arrows.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  With karari on it.

• 49:40Joe Rogan?

  They could do that, but they, you know, they shot him with bows and arrows. They just fucking killed him. Um, and you know, this was a guy that was like giving them stuff too. It's like he was bringing over rafts of food and they're like, you know what today? Fuck you. You know, we killed a bunch of fish today. We don't, we don't need your bananas.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Have you seen them where the ones, the Indians living in the Amazons, they're shooting down the, uh, the monkeys for food?

• 50:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they love monkeys.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  They don't need anything. They've, they've already established a, a culture of, uh, hunting, harvesting and, um, building their homes or the building their.

• 50:17Joe Rogan?

  You know what I found out recently? The term Indian is not because Columbus thought that he was in India. I'd been told that in fucking high school.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  So what is it?

• 50:27Joe Rogan?

  It's the children of God. It's, uh, what is the original term of Indios? There's like, I, I forget the term. Um, but it's not about India. It's just, they called them Indians because they're the people that were living here in this place that they had named.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  The indigenous.

• 50:47Joe Rogan?

  But it's, you know, like everybody thinks like America, you know, like you think of Native Americans, you know, that we used to call them Indians because they thought we landed in, they thought Columbus landed in India or he thought he landed in India.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Did he really?

• 51:02Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 51:03Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 51:03Speaker 02

  It says that the, yeah, the Portuguese word Indios, but because Columbus was Portuguese.

• 51:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what is, there's a term though. There's a term like the people of God, the Portuguese word's Indios.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  That's what the AI said.

• 51:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there's another term, uh, in, there's something, something that has to do with Indios. See AI, I don't, AI is wrong about stuff sometime. Where did the, the term?

• 51:30Speaker 02

  That's what I just, I just typed in with the word.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. Just, just type in, why are Native Americans called Indians? That's, that's not going to get you there either. What was the?

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Origin of the word Indian.

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 51:48Joe Rogan?

  So I was listening to this guy talk about this in a lecture. I wish I saved it. I absorb too much information and don't follow through on it.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  I'll go with our shredded post.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  Here's this one, what does it say? Always in the impression that we use the term India because Europeans were mistaken that they landed in India. However, this HuffPost article explains that it wasn't possible that we use the term Hindustan for India. That's what it is. And that Europeans used the term Indio earlier on, which had morphed into Indian. That's right, it was Indio. So click on the HuffPost article, the name Indian and political correctness.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  From 2007.

• 52:26Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, this guy was, it was a lecture this guy was giving.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Oh, whoever wrote this, could it be the guy that gave the lecture?

• 52:34Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, could be.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Sometimes that happens.

• 52:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, could be.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I go.

• 52:37Joe Rogan?

  Um, what is he saying? What's his term? Cause there was something... There was something that had to do, that's right, los niños indios.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Los niños.

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  Okay, who called them los niños, the spelling may be wrong, the children of God. The description by the padre means something like the children of God. After many years of use, the word indios emerged and to this day, the indigenous people of South and Central America are called indios. So this is what this guy was saying. So it said, stop, scroll back, go back. Um, so it said, here, I'm a firm believer that most historians are wrong when they credit Christopher Columbus for cornering the word Indian, because he thought he was landing ships in India. By 1492, there was no country known as India. Instead, that country was called Hindustan. I think that it's closer to the truth that Spanish padre that sailed with Columbus was so impressed by the innocence of the natives, he observed that he called them los niños indios.

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  Meaning, the spelling may be wrong in the Spanish words, but the description by the padre means something like the children of God. After many years of use of the word indios emerged, and to this day, the indigenous people of South and Central America are called indios. I'm told that as the word wound its way north, it evolved into Indian. Of course, some will say that there's, was a place in the East Indies in 1492, and Columbus may have thought he was headed for that region. So how and when did the effort to politicize the name start? Some of it started when Native Americans enrolled in some of the white colleges. I think they found the word Indian offensive and set about to remake it.

• 54:14Joe Rogan?

  They found that the word Indian was often used in a derogatory fashion such as drunken Indian or rotten Indian. Perhaps the white people would have found it more difficult to say drunken Native American.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, those white people.

• 54:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those dirty white people.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 54:31Joe Rogan?

  They're a problem. Uh, finally, when some Indian journalists made it to the newsrooms of large and prestigious mainstream newspapers, they reacted to the word Indian as they did when they were in college. They went to their editors and tried to impress upon them the paper should no longer use the word Indian, but instead switched to Native American or native.

• 54:51Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. The problem even with Native American is, um, native for how long? So, like, if you believe the bearing land mass theory that they came across that way, that in a lot of Native Americans, and this was actually tested because of Mormons. So, there was a wealthy Mormon who spent a bunch of money on DNA testing for Native Americans because he was sure that it was gonna relieve, it was gonna show that they were from the lost tribe of Israel. Because he believed that, you know, the Mormon teaching is that like the Indians and Native Americans are lost tribes of Israel. But then he found out when they did the DNA testing, no, they're from Siberia. Like, a lot of them are from Siberia. So that would make sense.

• 55:36Joe Rogan?

  They crossed the bearing land bridge, their ancestors did, and they wound up in North America.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Well, my people came from, uh, Komenitschko in Russia.

• 55:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's connected.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, duh. It was from there, from Siberia.

• 55:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we bought Alaska for like fifty bucks.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:51Joe Rogan?

  That was like the deal of a lifetime.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Deal of the century.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Manhattan might be the better deal. Like, financially, it's worth a lot more.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:58Joe Rogan?

  But goddamn, Alaska's bigger than Texas. Alaska's huge.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you've gone there hunting, right?

• 56:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I've gone there a few times. It's, it's an incredible place. Alaska's incredible. It's really, uh, it's really wild. Like, that's the last real frontier. If you wanna get away, move to a small town in Alaska.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:16Joe Rogan?

  And go, go live next to Sarah Palin.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  I can see Russia from there, so I should become Secretary of State.

• 56:22Joe Rogan?

  Remember when she said that, she could see Russia, but you can't even see, you can't even see the rest of Alaska. Alaska is huge. What are you saying?

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. I loved it there, you know?

• 56:33Joe Rogan?

  It's gorgeous.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Salmon fishing.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  I like the people. The people are just different, man. They're just rugged people. They're more reliable. They're built better. Like, you have to, like, you usually, like, you know how certain gene expressions are turned on and off due to stress? Imagine their genes. They're dealing with fucking grizzly bears and moose and shit. This is, I'm sure you've seen this video of this guy goes outside of his house in the morning and two gigantic moose are duking it out in his driveway.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Head to head.

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  Head to head, bouncing off cars and shit. This guy's like, whoa! And he lives in a neighborhood. It's like, this guy isn't in the woods somewhere, like, on his own. He's in a fucking neighborhood. These moose are duking it out.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that. In my neighborhood, the old neighborhood in Chatsworth, we had brown bears coming in.

• 57:22Joe Rogan?

  No, you didn't. You had black bears. You had black bears.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  No, brown bear of California.

• 57:26Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  What do you mean, no, no, no, no?

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  No, no. But brown bears have been extinct in California since the 1800s.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  They look brown and they're black?

• 57:33Joe Rogan?

  Yes. The last guy to die from bear attacks, from a brown bear, was Stephen Leveque. And he died in what's now Leveque, California. They named the town after him. And it's right outside of Tohone Ranch.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I'll have to show you, send you the picture.

• 57:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'll tell you what it is. It's called a color phase bear. So it's a difference, it's a different bear. So there's a brown bear, which is a grizzly bear, and the Kodiak bear, and, you know, those bears. These are norm, but they're all the same bear. The difference between a grizzly bear and a brown bear is just mostly what they eat. So the brown bears in, like, Alaska have so much salmon that they have immense amounts of protein, and they're the largest of all the brown bears. They're fucking huge. They're much, much, much, much bigger than a black bear.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had Parks and Rangers come to our house because one of our refrigerators failed. So we had all this great beef in there, so I had to throw it out.

• 58:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and the bears found it.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  The next day, the bears found it. It was in the, you know, canister, and they came there, so I took videos of these. What I thought were brown bears coming in. So you're saying they're not.

• 58:42Joe Rogan?

  What's the? No, they're they're brown color phase. So brown bears can be, uh, excuse me, black bears. Black bears can be brown. Most of them are black. Some of them are even blonde. There's blonde color phase bears that they find up in Alberta, but they're black bears. So a black bear is less aggressive than a grizzly bear. A grizzly bear is a brown bear. And they were killing so many people in California that they wiped them out. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan.

• 59:26Joe Rogan?

  Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. That means keeping the phone you already have, ditching your overpriced phone bill and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com. The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by NOCO. You're miles from home, you turn the key, nothing.

• 1:00:11Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:45Joe Rogan?

  That's what happened.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Well, this one jumped over a six-foot fence. But before it jumped over the six-foot fence, it ended up eating chicken and filet mignon and probably had a good old time. Ribeye and everything. The only thing it didn't eat was the garlic naan.

• 1:00:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, tell you what, that bear's gonna be back.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  It came back three times.

• 1:01:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  On the third time, Parks and Recreation came by with a dart gun.

• 1:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  To try and put it down so that they can transport it to someplace else.

• 1:01:13Joe Rogan?

  Did they get it?

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  It jumped over the fence.

• 1:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  I've never seen a bear jump six feet.

• 1:01:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they can move, man.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  It was 250 pounds, at least, is what they said.

• 1:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they can move. They move very, very, very fast.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  It was unbelievable.

• 1:01:25Joe Rogan?

  You'd be amazed at how fast they can move.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, when they're chasing after another bear, or something's happening, they're, they move very fast.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  And then there was, it jumped into our swimming pool.

• 1:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  It was just.

• 1:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I had a, but in Pasadena, they have a lot of those. A lot of them.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  In Pasadena?

• 1:01:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. There's a funny video of this guy in Pasadena. He's walking down a street, and he turns into an alley, and he's just staring at his phone. And he's walking with his phone, and this guy gets within like 30 feet of a fucking bear.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:01:53Joe Rogan?

  And he's just like freak, see if you can find it, it's hilarious.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like 10 feet away.

• 1:01:57Joe Rogan?

  In Pasadena, like in full-on Pasadena, not like the outskirts and the buds, the bush.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:03Joe Rogan?

  No, like, actual street, city street in Pasadena, black bear.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what do you do when it's looking you face to face?

• 1:02:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, you, you usually make a noise and try to startle it and frighten it.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Joe Rogan?

  And get the fuck out of there. Like, "Hey, bear!" You say, "Hey, bear!" That's what people do. They say, "Hey, bear!" The thing is, like, bears that have been accustomed to people, so that right there is a black bear.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  That is not a brown bear.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  The one that I saw, and I think I might have it on. I might have it on my cellphone, but it was lighter than that.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they make, like I said, they get even blonde. So that's a brown, black, that's a color-phase black bear.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  It's intimidating.

• 1:02:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, let's see the difference, though. Pull up grizzly bear. So a grizzly bear is a completely different motherfucker.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so on the state flag of California.

• 1:02:49Joe Rogan?

  That's a grizzly bear.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  That's a grizzly.

• 1:02:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that is a brown bear that is no lo, look at the size of those motherfuckers. See, that's a different thing. See the difference in the size? So that's a black bear and that's a grizzly bear. Grizzlies are much, much bigger, much more aggressive, much more dangerous. But interestingly enough, black bears turn out to be more predatory towards humans. So when a black bear attacks people, usually it's trying to eat them. Whereas when a grizzly attacks people, generally, like a large percentage of the attacks are, I'm good. A large percentage of the attacks are people accidentally stumbling upon a mother and their cubs. Mother, that's the worst case scenario.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Cause it's protective.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get near a mama bear, woo. That's so terrifying. They, they, because they just try to eliminate the threat immediately and they just go after you. And fuck you up. They don't, they don't look at you and go, what are you doing? What's this about? They have to protect their cubs. And there's so much cannibalism in the bear world.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  They eat their babes?

• 1:03:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Male grizzlies eat cubs and they, they hunt cubs. And so there's so much cannibalism of cubs from male grizzlies that the females are always on edge. Cause everywhere they go, their fear is that they run into a male who's gonna eat their cubs. Grizzlies are fucking ruthless. These assholes that think they wanna bring grizzlies back to California.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:14Joe Rogan?

  This is like a movement now to bring grizzlies back. Cause just like they brought wolves back to Colorado. These people are retarded and they've never spent a second in the woods. They don't know what the fuck they're dealing with. They don't know what you're bringing back. And what the consequences are gonna be of those things. And look, there's places they exist and they're great. It's awesome. Go to Montana, you can see them. Go to, you know, Wyoming, you can see them. They're starting to make their way into Colorado. A friend of mine saw one in the San Juan Mountains. You got video footage of it.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  I know you go with your archery, hunting. There's no hunting of bears?

• 1:04:49Joe Rogan?

  Yo, there's a lot of hunting of bears, not in the lower forty-eight. So they're trying to change that. They're trying to change that in Montana because they have so many instances. And, you know, and attacks and a woman was killed a couple of years ago, she was dragged out of her tent. Yeah, it's scary shit, man. And I'm not advocating for the eradication of grizzlies. I'm just saying that with our modern society, when they haven't existed in an ecosystem, to reintroduce that to the ecosystem, you're, you're gonna cause chaos. You're gonna cause havoc. And if you want healthy breeding populations of them, good luck. Good luck, cause now everything changes. All your livestock changes, your dogs change, your dog's gonna get eaten. Anything, you have a dog chained up in the backyard, that's meat on a stick.

• 1:05:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what that is. Yeah, that's over. They're gonna, and they're going to do that. They're going to target your garbage, you're not gonna be able to get rid of them. They're gonna keep coming back. It's, they're dangerous animals and they're beautiful and amazing and an important part of the ecosystems that they exist in currently, like Montana and Wyoming where there's elk populations and a lot of food for them. And Alaska.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I personally can't see for myself going out hunting for bears or elks or moose. And I know you do that, but they're such incredible animals. They're just incredible animals.

• 1:06:11Joe Rogan?

  They are.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just can't see putting them down.

• 1:06:14Joe Rogan?

  The way they die without me is way worse. If I get them, I'm gonna get them with an arrow and they're gonna be dead in seconds. If they get attacked by a bear or a mountain lion, it's fucking brutal. It's brutal and the worst, I mean, they might just freeze to death, that's how most of them go.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:06:29Joe Rogan?

  I shot an elk a couple of years ago that was eleven years old and he had almost no teeth left. His teeth were ground down because, you know, they're just, they don't live long and part of it is because they can't grind food after a certain age.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, because no teeth?

• 1:06:44Joe Rogan?

  No teeth. Cause their teeth are, I mean, they're just. Digging into the ground and pulling out shrubs and grasses and they're constantly mashing and smashing and over the period of, you know, eleven years, his, his teeth had worn down to the roots.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you've gone after bears?

• 1:07:02Joe Rogan?

  I've hunted bears before.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  You've hunted bears?

• 1:07:05Joe Rogan?

  I've eaten bears before.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  And you've eaten it?

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  What's the meat like?

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  It's like beef. It's like a, like a, like a pig fucked a cow. That's what it's like. It's like a weird kind of beef. Like maybe a deer fucked a cow. It's a, it's good though. It's good, but it depended upon the diet of the animal. So like the people that hunt grizzly bears and they've eaten grizzly bears or brown bears, they say they taste so fishy, it's, it's almost intolerable. But you could turn them into sausage. You could do it with the right spices and stuff like, bear sausage is great, but you also have to be, have to be careful because of trichinosis. You have to make sure you cook it to a hundred and sixty plus degrees.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Joe Rogan?

  To kill off the trichinosis.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Parasites.

• 1:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Cause I know several people that got trichinosis from bear meat.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Heart?

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just parasites in your muscles.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:52Joe Rogan?

  And it doesn't have too many adverse effects. It means very painful and brutal for the beginning exposure, you know, the beginning infection. But then the thing is like if, if you're a cannibal and you eat that dude and you don't cook them right, you're gonna get it from him, which is really crazy.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  One of the reasons why I don't eat pig that you got after me in the last time we were here. Pig has a lot of parasites.

• 1:08:14Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  And a lot of them aren't cooked to the level to kill the parasites, cystic cirrhosis and so forth.

• 1:08:21Joe Rogan?

  And trichinosis.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  And trichinosis.

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially wild pigs.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Joe Rogan?

  You know what the number one source of trichinosis is for people in America?

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:08:29Joe Rogan?

  Black bears. Isn't that crazy? Think about how few people eat black bears.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:34Joe Rogan?

  But yet it's the number one source of trichinosis in America for people that test positive for it.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  So it's through contamination?

• 1:08:40Joe Rogan?

  From food, from eating them.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  From eating them.

• 1:08:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cause there's a lot of people that hunt black bears.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Wanna get, really get blown away?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Joe Rogan?

  What, you know what has the, state has the largest population per capita of black bears in the country?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Wyoming, Montana.

• 1:08:57Joe Rogan?

  New Jersey.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Yep, New Jersey.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  New Jersey.

• 1:09:00Joe Rogan?

  New Jersey has an infestation of black bears. New Jersey, we played this video a hundred times, but these giant bears that are duking it out in a beautiful suburb of far rockaway, New Jersey. So it's like, nice, nice, normal, not like the woods.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Joe Rogan?

  Not like, you know, fucking.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Residential area.

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not the mountains, residential area, they knock over this mailbox and they're duking it out in the street. Big fucking bears, big bears. A guy recently shot the state record black bear in New Jersey and it was eight hundred pounds. Yeah, you should see it, pull that video up, the photo rather up of this guy's bear. So, uh, I'm pretty sure that was archery as well. Um, they banned bear hunting in New Jersey when the new governor came into place. That lasted for about a year. And then the human interactions with bears were so frequent and so that they restarted the bear hunting program. It's an important tool, look at the size of that bear. Look at the fucking size.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Seventy seventy.

• 1:09:56Joe Rogan?

  Seven seventy dressed.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:09:58Joe Rogan?

  That's seven seventy after they gutted it. And they added another eight hundred pounds for its intestines and organs.

• 1:10:07Joe Rogan?

  Another, another hundred pounds rather, so it was, they think, so it's field dressed, the bear, before it was officially weighed in at seven seventy. So it's probably quite a bit heavier than that.

• 1:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Pretty nuts.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:10:23Joe Rogan?

  So, if you see, there's other pictures of it where you really get a better size of it. See if you can find some other pictures of it, cause.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  That is huge.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some other pictures of, have it laid out and they're, you know, you could see what it looks like. It's a fucking giant bear, but it's cause they have so much food there. And a lot of these bears exist, look at the size of that thing. A lot of these bears exist around, uh, humans.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  And you've gone after a black bear?

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  Not that big.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Not that.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  The, the black bears that I've shot are like two hundred pounds, two hundred fifty pounds. Well, they didn't look like babies.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:10:53Joe Rogan?

  But, but yeah, you eat them, man. And it's also, it's an important part of conservation because if you don't control their populations, no one does. This is the thing about bears, they are the top of the food chain.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Joe Rogan?

  So if you're not controlling them, no one does. And so what they do is they eat each other. That's the only control of bears is the, uh, infanticide of the cubs by the males.

• 1:11:18Joe Rogan?

  And the females too, by the way.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Joe Rogan?

  You wanna hear a crazy thing? My friend Jonathan, he watched this bear and this female bear. Cause so the male bear came around, the female bear's trying to fight him off. And she eventually can't, and the male bear gets a hold of one of her cubs and kills it. And she chases him off of her ki- dead cub.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:36Joe Rogan?

  Then she eats her cub.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:11:38Joe Rogan?

  That's the real world.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:11:40Joe Rogan?

  That's the real world. She ate her cub right in front of him. And he was, he came back to camp and he was like, fuck.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's the balance that has to be struck in, where was it? Montana where they had open season for, uh, for elk or for moose?

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Was it moose?

• 1:11:59Joe Rogan?

  No, there's no open season. There's no like.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Which state was it?

• 1:12:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, open season, open season means.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  You didn't need a permit?

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  They had a cold.

• 1:12:07Joe Rogan?

  There's no way. They would never do that with elk. Elk is a very valuable. No, no, no, no. They'd never do that with moose either. They would never do that with, they wouldn't. They do it in some communities with whitetail deer. And the reason why they do it is because they're completely overpopulated. And oddly enough, this happens a lot in the suburbs. Like there's places in the suburbs, yeah, where people, there's like people who bow hunt in the suburbs. Because like, look, if you're bow hunting, your arrow doesn't go more than a hundred yards, right? It's not like you have to worry about you shoot and someone a mile away gets hit by a bullet.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:38Joe Rogan?

  If you miss.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:38Joe Rogan?

  You, you, your, your arrow drops. It arcs, right? Archery, it arcs.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:12:43Joe Rogan?

  So it drops down to the ground. It only goes so far. And so it's safer if you have competent hunters who are skilled to hunt in the suburbs. And you know, most of these suburbs have wooded areas and they're infested with deer. So I think it was Pennsylvania, there's states that were, were bringing in bow hunters. And New York, and in all their wisdom, these fucking dorks, in, uh, in the area around the Hamptons, they have this issue, but the people are so fucking retarded.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Long Island.

• 1:13:11Joe Rogan?

  That, yeah. Well, it's just, it's the Hamptons, cause they're rich. It's like if you had regular Long Island, regular Long Island probably say, yeah, we should hunt them, cause they're food.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  I'm from Queens.

• 1:13:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there you go. So they decided they were gonna just try to sterilize the deer and give them birth control. They were good. They came up with all these wacky concepts, but they didn't want to bring in bow hunters.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  But wasn't there in the last, what, five years, there was an overpopulation of moose or deer, elk?

• 1:13:35Joe Rogan?

  Never. There's never been an over-

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  On this side?

• 1:13:37Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. There's been times where they had seasons in winter for elk in Montana, and the reason, it was a complete depopulation effort. So they had had, um, this is before the reintroduction of wolves, though. So the reintroduction of wolves, which is in the 1990s, has significantly impacted the elk population. And now it's actually more difficult to get a tag. Um, but back then, they would have certain seasons that would have in the winter. So you'd be able to get these, these elk that were out there in the snow, moving very slowly in the deep snow, and you could just kind of pick them off. And it was basically just a meat hunt. And there was a lot, they killed a lot of cows that way, cow elk. And it was just a way for people to get meat, and also, they

• 1:14:22Joe Rogan?

  were trying to put a dent on the population because it wasn't sustainable. So they would have an elk herd of, you know, thousands of elk, where it really should have been like 800 elk with the sustainable, the sustainability of the area. And the bear couldn't keep up. They couldn't eat enough of them. The mountain lions couldn't eat enough of them. And then they brought in the wolves. And the wolves were way better than everybody else because they hunt together. And they started really chipping away at them. And now they've knocked the elk population down. I think it's in the neighborhood, they dropped it by 40% plus.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  What was the need for reducing the elk population?

• 1:14:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you don't have a balanced ecosystem, right, if you don't have enough predators, and you have a large animal like an elk, like a bull elk is an 800-pound animal, and a cow elk, a mature cow elk is north of 300 pounds, 400 pounds. So this is a lot of food. And they can decimate vegetation. And there is a documentary that's kind of like poo-pooed by people, but interesting nonetheless. Um, it's how, uh, how wolves changed rivers. And it's all about how the Yellowstone ecosystem changed because of- Their introduction to wolves and more songbirds came in because there was more vegetation because the introduction to wolves, they killed off a lot of the elk, the elk had been

• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

  just like maybe overbalanced in the fact that like overrepresented, they were eating too much vegetation.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Joe Rogan?

  It's all interesting, but what you really want is things to happen naturally. And then when there's a problem, you know, really the best way to handle the problem if there's like an overabundance of these animals is to bring in hunters. The other solution would be to bring in predators. The problem with bringing in predators is if you have a predator like wolves that has been forever maligned because they go after livestock and they do target ranchers, like there's, there was an article I read today actually about these ranchers that were kind of optimistic about wolves being introduced into Colorado and now they vehemently oppose it because they've seen the impact. And one of the reasons why they saw the impact is because the governor of Colorado in all

• 1:16:31Joe Rogan?

  his fucking infinite wisdom, he had a mandate to get these wolves introduced during a certain amount of time and they didn't have the wolves, so they got wolves from Oregon that they had captured while they were preying on livestock. So these wolves were already accustomed to preying on livestock and those are the wolves they reintroduced into Colorado. They reintroduced wolves that had already been, they had already been like naturalized to killing livestock. And so what'd they start doing? They started finding livestock and killing them again.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Duh.

• 1:17:03Joe Rogan?

  But that's the thing, it's like you're, you're fucking around with nature and you don't know how this calculation is gonna end. You're, it's like, a good example is Australia. Australia is a fucking mess because they kept bringing in animals and then they'd bring in animals to kill the animals and then they'd have an overpopulation of certain animals, so they'd bring in cats and now they have an overpopulation of feral cats, the point where they hunt feral cats. Like if you look at an Australian bow hunting journal, you know, they have bow hunting magazines, my buddy Adam Green Tree, shout out to Adam Green Tree. My buddy Adam gave me a magazine from Australia, bow hunting, I'm like, bro, what the fuck is this? It's all cats. These guys are holding up house cats because they kill feral cats whenever they can because

• 1:17:47Joe Rogan?

  feral cats have decimated ground nesting birds and they've destroyed, you just, a shit ton of native animals that were in that area. They brought them in to kill some other animal they brought in, it's like.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  You can't fuck around with nature like that. You don't know what the consequences are. And when you do ballot box biology, which is essentially what this stuff is. So the reintroduction of wolves is something people voted on. The people that voted on it are living in fucking Denver, alright? They don't encounter wolves. They don't know what they're doing. It's like the same thing happened in Vancouver. So in British Columbia, they outlawed grizzly bear hunting. Why'd they do that? Because, eh, man, why would you kill it? They call it trophy hunting, but it's important to manage the predators. And the people that knew this were the people that lived in the rural areas that were vehemently opposed to this ban. And then what happens? Well, you got ballot box biology. You get people that have no experience with bears, don't encounter bears, don't have to worry about bears. And they say, "Yeah, let's not ban them anymore."

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  Now you got bears breaking into people's houses, and there's much more of them than ever before, and people are freaked out. You can't do anything about it.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I freaked out when the bear came to the house.

• 1:18:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you should.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  It was like, whoa. And then seeing this fucking bear, 250 pounds, swimming in my swimming pool. You know, going back and forth, and then the Department of Parks and Rangers came, you know, came in to try and deal with it.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they said, "Stop feeding it." "I'm not feeding it. I put the fucking, you know, beef into the garbage can because it's no longer, you know, it wasn't frozen." And the bear kept on going, "Don't put it there. Where should I put it?"

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  "Where do you put the meat?"

• 1:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Put it at your asshole neighbor's house. You have some guy that's annoying. Go use his garbage in the middle of the night.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  I've got a bad neighbor. I'm gonna have to put it into there.

• 1:19:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you should dress up, though. Dress up like a Ku Klux Klan member or something like that, so they don't know what you look like.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Dress up as a bear to go into Rolls Royce to destroy the Rolls Royce.

• 1:19:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  You remember that one?

• 1:19:44Joe Rogan?

  No, what was that?

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  You didn't see that? This, uh...

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right, a guy was wearing a bear suit.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Bear suit.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Insurance fraud.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Insurance fraud. They brought in a bear expert and said, "That bear would not have gone into the Rolls Royce," and then goes scrape marks on it.

• 1:20:01Joe Rogan?

  So this guy was trying to get rid of his car?

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  He was trying to get, uh, insurance money.

• 1:20:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, what a moron. What a silly bitch.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I've learned right now so much more about bears. You know, incredible.

• 1:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're a wild animal. I mean, not wild, just wild, but fascinating.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  You know, Teddy Roosevelt and, you know, when he did his bear hunting. Loved it. Bears are such.

• 1:20:24Joe Rogan?

  You know what the scariest bear to run across is? Take a guess. Polar bear.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Oh, white bear, yeah.

• 1:20:30Joe Rogan?

  You know why?

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Cause they don't eat anything but meat. At least grizzly bears, if you find a grizzly bear that's in a blueberry field, you probably don't even have to worry about them.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  They eat blueberries?

• 1:20:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they'd be gorging on blue. But black bears and grizzly bears are omnivorous. So they eat vegetation and they also eat meat.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Meat.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Polar bears are just carnivores.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:20:51Joe Rogan?

  And they're hyper aggressive.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:20:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they just eat seals and occasionally people, but they, they hunt people. Yeah.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:20:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they'll go after you. They smell you from a distance to hunt you.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Bad, bad body odor or something?

• 1:21:04Joe Rogan?

  Just you smell. Everybody smells. You know, you'd be amazed at how much a bear can smell. There was a, a, a video where my friend was in, um, I forget what part, I think they were in Montana, maybe Idaho. And, um, a bear was seven hundred yards away plus. And the wind hit the back of his neck and the bear started running. And he's like, did that fucking bear wind us? Like, the bear caught their smell from seven hundred yards away.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  And went after him?

• 1:21:37Joe Rogan?

  No, the other way. It was a black bear.

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  Ran away.

• 1:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Black bears run away. Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Human, run.

• 1:21:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, in any area where the bears get hunted, they run away.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:21:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, like in Alaska, if they smell you, generally they run away because people hunt bears in Alaska. They don't have any experience with getting hunted. Black bears do, but grizzly bears don't in the lower forty-eight. In the lower forty-eight, it's not legal to hunt them yet. But they're trying to change that. Grizzlies. Yeah.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  Interesting, interesting. Great new information for me.

• 1:22:07Joe Rogan?

  It's important to know. It's a wild world out there.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:22:13Joe Rogan?

  It's a wild world. And you know, you, you live in the city and you think it's cute. Let's go for a hike. And all of a sudden you meet a fucking mountain lion.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

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• 1:22:51Joe Rogan?

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• 1:23:34Joe Rogan?

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• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  We have mountain lions where the houses, yeah. Mountain lions, deer, bobcats, a lot of.

• 1:23:57Joe Rogan?

  You'd have a lot more deer if it wasn't for the mountain lions. And that's what the wildlife lovers want. They want nature to balance itself out. The problem is they eat your cats and dogs too. A lot of them. In San Francisco, it was like 50% of the problem cats that they caught, they found out their diet was pets.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Joe Rogan?

  50% of their diet was pets.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  I lost two cats.

• 1:24:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, coyotes mostly, right?

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  The coyotes were the ones. They were indoor cats and every now and then they would go out.

• 1:24:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  And gone.

• 1:24:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Gone.

• 1:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Owls get them too.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Do they really? They they swoop in and pick them up and take them away?

• 1:24:34Joe Rogan?

  A buddy of mine um has a friend who works in like tree service and they found a nest, an owl nest. It was filled with cat callers. Yeah, like ten cat callers in there. Yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we've had owls where we are. We're in Santa Susana Pass.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of owls up there.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  A lot of owls.

• 1:24:53Joe Rogan?

  Do you know owls are stupid?

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:24:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're dumb. You know, that whole thing of wise old owl, they're one of the dumbest birds. They don't learn things. They're stupid. I talked to a lady who's a falconer and she trains birds and she has an owl. And she's like, it's the dumbest bird I have. She's like this idea that owls are wise. She was like, they're the second dumbest bird.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Who's number one?

• 1:25:14Joe Rogan?

  I forget.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Ostrich?

• 1:25:16Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find it. It's in the ostrich family. It's another animal that's in the ostrich family. Ostriches might be dumber than than owls. They're really dumb.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Always got their head in the sand.

• 1:25:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're also big.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:28Joe Rogan?

  They're big. They don't they don't fuck with.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  What's the other?

• 1:25:30Joe Rogan?

  And they can kill you. They can kick you to death.

• 1:25:32Speaker 01

  What's the other breed that's it's not ostrich, but it's in the same family?

• 1:25:35Joe Rogan?

  Casaway? It's Casaway, I think that's what it's called. That's the one that's dangerous. They they kill people. That's you ever seen that fucking weird bird?

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Is that what it's in that? Am I saying it right? Casaway, that's right.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Casaway.

• 1:25:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're freaky looking, man. They're freaky looking. Yeah, they're a big ass bird too, but they kill people. The people have died by being attacked by these birds.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  And what, pecks them on their face?

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  I think they claw them. I think they attack you with their claw. It might be their face too. Their face looks like a fucking hatchet.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Wow, beautiful bird.

• 1:26:09Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful. God, look at his eyes.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Wow. I'm looking at you.

• 1:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  Wow, look at the comb.

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  Google Casaway kills people.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  And where'd they found? Just in Australia?

• 1:26:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't know where that one is.

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  A massive flightless emu-like creature.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  Ah, that's the word.

• 1:26:27Joe Rogan?

  Uh, as the most dangerous bird in the world, owing to the fact that it's it it can seriously injure or kill a human or a dog in an instant with his deadly claws. Yeah, it's the claws.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Joe Rogan?

  They just rip you apart. So they go for your guts. You know, that's the same like, yeah.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:46Joe Rogan?

  Look at their tips. Oh my god, they got fucking talons for claws. Geez.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Five inch.

• 1:26:51Joe Rogan?

  They can eviscerate a human being with a single kick.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Although there's no record of this happening. Was it because the people are dead? They can run thirteen miles an hour?

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  Killed a seventy-five-year-old man who was raising one.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  In Florida.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  He tripped and fell on it, and the bird attacked him.

• 1:27:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  It's come to its end.

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Wow.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Well, that's a bird I'm not gonna collect.

• 1:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah. What's the dumbest bird, Jamie?

• 1:27:18Speaker 02

  I, so it's. A, uh, it said owls are smart when I Google our owls, dumb or smart.

• 1:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Lies, lies.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Said they're almost as smart as a crow or a raven.

• 1:27:26Joe Rogan?

  That's horseshit.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  Uh, but I did see some stuff saying they're not that smart, or their brains are different, but they have really good eyesight and stuff, so.

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they have killer eyesight.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  No, owls are not dumb.

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  Lies, lies. I was talking to a lady.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  And she, one lady told you they're not dumb?

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  Two ladies.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  Two, okay, fine.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Two different falconers.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  And if you have three, it's a done deal.

• 1:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Two different people, and now you like, in the last year, I've, I've hung out with two different falconers and their animals.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Believe it or not. One of them had an eagle.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  She had a, um, a female bald eagle. It was amazing. Dude, you, we, I caught it on my arm. You know, you put the glove on, you have to put a different glove for the eagle than the other animals because its talons are so powerful. But having that thing land on your arm is crazy.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  The shoe bill might be the dumbest bird?

• 1:28:13Joe Rogan?

  Shoe bill?

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  Even though it makes that cool ass sound?

• 1:28:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they're cool. Have you ever seen that fucking thing? A shoe bill?

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Stupidest bird in the wild.

• 1:28:20Joe Rogan?

  They make a sound that sounds like gunshots, like. They slap their jaws together and they stand like that. That's what it looks like. See how the thing's standing up? That thing's like five feet tall. Imagine a five-foot-tall bird with those evil eyes and that giant face? Look at his fucking mouth. Look at that beak. Get, get a video of, uh.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  That's the dumbest bird?

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  That's what it says. I mean, uh, there's multiple articles repeating it.

• 1:28:43Joe Rogan?

  The dodo was a really dumb bird, too, right?

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, dodo.

• 1:28:46Joe Rogan?

  Um, but can you do, uh, Google shoe bill makes noise? Shoe bill noise? Yeah, it's really cool. It sounds like a machine gun. Bill clacking, so they kind of shake the bottom and the top of their beak or their bill backwards and forth at different speeds. Shut the fuck up, dude. Shut this dude up. Shut this dude up.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is that?

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  That is AR-15?

• 1:29:19Joe Rogan?

  Imagine that getting a hold of your face. Imagine that fucking massive beak.

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  Any appendage lowered down.

• 1:29:26Joe Rogan?

  It's a big animal too, man. They're big.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  What's the height of it?

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  I think they're like 5 feet tall.

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  5, fuck.

• 1:29:32Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts?

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  And they, they look like they're from a different time. They look like they're, like you went back at 3.5 to 5 feet tall, yeah. I thi- they look like they're from dinosaur times.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't even make sense. Like, look at that thing. You ever heard of a terror bird?

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Terror birds used to exist, like, more than a million years ago, right?

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  I work in human, uh, you know, anatomy, human science.

• 1:29:54Joe Rogan?

  I work in meat fighting.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:56Joe Rogan?

  I've heard of people beating the shit out of each other.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I want to complain.

• 1:30:00Joe Rogan?

  About what?

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  I was expecting to find some elk sticks out in your front.

• 1:30:04Joe Rogan?

  I've got some.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah? First time I had it was...

• 1:30:07Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to complain.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, no, I'm not complaining, yeah. But I asked and they said it's not available.

• 1:30:13Joe Rogan?

  Um, Jamie, Google terror bird, like, yeah, that image with a human being.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Where is it?

• 1:30:18Joe Rogan?

  Right there. So that is what they used to look like. Imagine that.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:30:23Joe Rogan?

  A 9 foot to 10 foot tall giant flightless bird. And they called them terror birds.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Terror, like T-E-R-R-O-R?

• 1:30:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, terror.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 1:30:34Joe Rogan?

  Like, you'd be terrified if you saw that fucking giant bird. Look at that thing.

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  Fucking scared shitless.

• 1:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Killing horses and shit.

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  Terror bird.

• 1:30:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It was huge.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  So where can we get one?

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  They don't exist anymore.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Oh, jeez.

• 1:30:46Joe Rogan?

  When did they die off? Look at it look like, woo! Isn't that crazy? Imagine seeing that 10 feet tall.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:30:53Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  I'll take two, please.

• 1:30:55Joe Rogan?

  Huh. Look at the size of it. That's what they used to look like.

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  Where is that?

• 1:30:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a recreation, obviously, but I don't know where that is.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  It was, uh, based off of a fossil in...

• 1:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Fossil remains.

• 1:31:06Joe Rogan?

  What year did they go extinct?

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  55 billion years ago.

• 1:31:11Joe Rogan?

  I think it was a couple million.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. 55 billion years ago.

• 1:31:17Joe Rogan?

  It says right there, when did the terror bird go extinct? Uh, cenozoic era? When's that?

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  What date was that?

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  Was it January?

• 1:31:27Joe Rogan?

  Sixty-six mil- oh, a lot more, a lot longer ago.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Sixty-six.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  So, the current geological age of Earth, oh, it's the current geological age, beginning sixty-six million years ago and continuing to the present. So, when did the terror birds go extinct? Does it say? When did they go extinct?

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  How do you pronounce that word?

• 1:31:49Joe Rogan?

  The thing it says...

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Hold on, how do you, how do you pronounce that? P-H-O-

• 1:31:54Joe Rogan?

  Phorus rusitis? Phorus rusitis? How would you say it? You're a doctor.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Terror bird. I would say a terror bird.

• 1:32:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's only thousands of years ago?

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  One of them survived until the late Pleistocene.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  I mean, they could have been longer, uh, dry as, you know?

• 1:32:12Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit. One of them survived up until six thousand years ago? A night, well, between ninety-six thousand and six thousand. I thought it was millions.

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  It's the late Pleistocene.

• 1:32:22Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  A hundred thousand years ago.

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, we're so lucky.

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  We're so lucky those weren't around.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Man, ate it up, right?

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't think Neanderthals were here. They were European. I think, uh, there's probably a bunch of assholes who want to bring those back too. You know? They want to bring back the mammoth. That's probably next. Let's bring back the terror-

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  They've been working on that, right?

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Joe Rogan?

  They'll probably just call it a different name. They won't call it a terror bird. They'll call it something cute. You know, the conservation bird.

• 1:32:51Speaker 01

  Big bird. They'll call it big bird.

• 1:32:53Joe Rogan?

  Big bird. Yeah, we're gonna bring back big bird.

• 1:32:54Speaker 01

  Hey, big bird.

• 1:32:55Joe Rogan?

  Just make them yellow so people love them. Hello, big bird?

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  So-

• 1:33:01Joe Rogan?

  Natural world. So, speaking of which, since we're talking about ridiculous shit, and you are a doctor, I wanted to bring this up to you because Jamie and I were, uh, exchanging text messages yesterday about these mummies that they found in Peru that have three fingers.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  The aliens.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, I don't, they don't know what they are, but they have three fingers, and not three fingers because they cut the fingers off. They actually, their structure- Genetically, it's three fingers. And their cranial capacity, it's, they have a large head, which a lot of times they think was due to, you know, they would form their head and like press, press boards to make their head stretch out, which they definitely did in some tribes.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  Chinese do with the feet.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  But the question is, why were they doing that? And then were they doing it to replicate something else?

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  So the thing about these is that they had a cranial capacity that is larger than most human beings.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  That's alien.

• 1:33:53Joe Rogan?

  It looks like a fucking alien.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  That's a fuck, that's correct.

• 1:33:56Joe Rogan?

  But is that real? Here's the question. Appear, okay, three-fingered alien mummies. Click on that article and see where, where are they getting this? I know it was in, yeah, New York Post. So, three-fingered alien mummies found in Peru have fingerprints that do not appear to be human. So the fingerprints that it has, instead of spirals, I think they're lines. And Google, go and scroll, but scroll back, scroll back, back to where you were. Look at that image. That's X-ray image of their fingers. So, these are like real bones and digits.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:31Joe Rogan?

  So this isn't just a, a, a statue that someone made.

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:35Joe Rogan?

  This has real bone structure that is exact to like what a human being has, and all those little tiny muscles in the mid-hand, right? I mean, that at all looks normal, but weird with the three fingers and three toes. And so, if you scroll down, you'll see more images. So this is what it looked like when they found it.

• 1:34:55Joe Rogan?

  So the body is covered, go back so I can read that, please. It says, "The body is covered with diatom-" how do you say that?

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Diatomaceous earth.

• 1:35:05Joe Rogan?

  Diatomaceous earth, a type of white powder made from the sediment of fossilized algae found in the bodies of water. "The only possible explanation for the unusually straight fingerprints could possibly have something to do with the way her skin was preserved," he said, noting that it's very odd. "So the US medical examiners traveled to Peru last April to study the bodies with the lack of human fingerprints is puzzling." He said it would be extremely premature to make any statements about the mummy's origins. So, they know for a fact that these things are biological and they're not created? Have they done any sort of DNA? Look at the, look at the picture of what it actually looks like. That's fucking crazy.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:42Joe Rogan?

  That does look like an alien.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's exactly what people expect to see at their bed in the middle of the night.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. You said, "It looks like an alien."

• 1:35:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  It is an alien.

• 1:35:51Joe Rogan?

  If it's real. It's so hard, and no disrespect to the post, but you know, people bullshit. Not those, those I think have proven to be horseshit. But if you scroll up, scroll back to where you were, back to where you were, that thing, okay. I wanna know what that is. Like, what is that? If, because it's got three fingers and three toes, and it's got an alien face. It looks like a gray. It has a tiny slot for a mouth and tiny dots for a nose. It looks like the archetypal angel, or the archetypal alien, rather, that people see in like Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and what was that other movie? Um, the, the Whitley Strieber movie, Communion, Communion.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  I didn't see that one.

• 1:36:32Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's a weird one, because Whitley Strieber is also a fiction writer. And he wrote this book about his own personal experiences with aliens, which I wanna believe him.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a classical impression, face-wise, of an alien of a gray, as you say.

• 1:36:46Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent, even with the shape of the, like, the eyes are kind of slanted, like, not like a human's. Like, they're at angles, just like they always, they always show them with these kind of, they look, you know.

• 1:36:57Speaker 01

  The big eyes, the ominous, the large, yeah.

• 1:37:00Joe Rogan?

  We have to have an image of one of them around here somewhere, don't we?

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, you probably have.

• 1:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Aliens all over this fucking place. But that classic look is exactly what those mummies look like. So, they have straight fing, go back, what were you just wearing?

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Three fingers.

• 1:37:13Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ, all these pop-ups, isn't that crazy?

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:15Joe Rogan?

  It says, "The humanoid three-fingered alien mummies have straight fingerprints that do not match those of humans, according to an attorney who reviewed one of the controversial specimens." Oh, an attorney said that.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  You believe him?

• 1:37:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  That's where the rest of this came from, is because this guy didn't believe whatever everyone was saying, so he was like, "We're gonna go look."

• 1:37:32Joe Rogan?

  So Joshua McDowell, a former Colorado prosecutor and current defense attorney, examined one of the tiny strange bodies named Maria, uh, with three independent forensic medical examiners from the United States. Scroll. It said, "He and the experts were shocked to discover that the fingerprints on the ET-like corpses were in perfectly straight lines. They were not traditional human fingerprint patterns," he told the Daily Mail. But what, did they do an analysis of the tissue? Like, did they find out that it's actually, uh, biological tissue? Can you scroll down further?

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  It doesn't say anything like that, yeah, so I was trying to go to different articles to find better.

• 1:38:07Joe Rogan?

  So I'm a forensic prosecutor, I'm a criminal, criminal defense attorney, I've seen lots of fingerprints, and these were not classic fingerprints. Look how weird it is, look at that image. That's so crazy looking.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:17Joe Rogan?

  How, and also, how did I just find out about this yesterday? I know, but I never saw it look like this. What I saw were those other ones that I think have been proven, I might be wrong, but I think at least allegedly have been proven to not be real. And that the person who was exposing those, those little tiny ones that were like laying down straight, that guy had a history of doing some deceptive stuff, allegedly. So.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  But you believe that they're there. I mean, you believe that the aliens are here.

• 1:38:49Joe Rogan?

  I do not not believe.

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  Do not not believe, so you're.

• 1:38:53Joe Rogan?

  I don't disbelieve.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  You're ambivalent as to the fact that they're. I believe that they're here.

• 1:38:57Joe Rogan?

  I wouldn't even say I'm ambivalent. I am open-minded, but.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  You won't say yes?

• 1:39:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm logical. I think there's a lot of deception going on.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:07Joe Rogan?

  I think there's also the possibility that what we're dealing with is not as simple as we like to think. Yeah, these things. So these things I've heard are bullshit. I don't, might be, might be wrong, but.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Trying to find out.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Well, might that be misinformation?

• 1:39:21Joe Rogan?

  That, that journalist that unveiled the bodies and the guy who exposed the bodies, the guy who exposed the bodies, I think was the one, the guy who came up with it.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  So I'm just trying to figure out how, so there's an issue of them being found in Peru and taken to Mexico.

• 1:39:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  There's already that issue.

• 1:39:41Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  And then where, they said they were found near Nazca in 2017. I'm trying to figure out, okay, who found them?

• 1:39:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was the thing about that, that alien looking one with the three fingers that was even more interesting to me. Because that's that area where there's these incredible patterns that are made on the ground that you can only see from space.

• 1:40:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:02Joe Rogan?

  Or not space, the air.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:40:04Joe Rogan?

  You can only see looking down on them. So it's like, why would anybody even make those things? And some of them look like, the images look like animals and stuff.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, spiders.

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, weird stuff. And some of them look like maybe even a person.

• 1:40:19Joe Rogan?

  Where'd it go? Mexican doctors have examined the two bodies that featured elongated heads and three fingers on each hand. Same thing, three fingers. They found no evidence of any assembly or manipulation of the skulls, but other scientists have panned the discovery as an elaborate stunt. Mao San, 70, who touted the purported extraterrestrial as the most important thing that has happened to humanity, has denied any wrongdoing. Scroll down. Look at that. How fucking weird.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I believe that there are aliens.

• 1:40:50Joe Rogan?

  Why do you believe that?

• 1:40:51Speaker 01

  Why do I believe that? Why would be, why would we be the only

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  people on a planet? When there are millions and billions of planets out there? And we've reached a level of technology that allows us to send a ship to the moon, anticipation with Musk to go to, you know, to Mars and so forth.

• 1:41:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  How about there are other, uh, people on other planets who have accelerated, have been there millions of years longer than we have? Why isn't it that they're able to come to us to see what we're doing? We're going out to other planets to see what, you know, was on other planets. I believe that, you know, there are other people out there.

• 1:41:34Joe Rogan?

  According to the UFO aficionado, by the way, as you say, according to UFO aficionado, I already started looking at you side-eyed.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:42Joe Rogan?

  Uh, the analysis showed that the humanoids are not related to any known earthly species and that one-third of their DNA is unknown.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:41:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, take it and map it. Let's make a new one.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's look at the DNA relative to ours.

• 1:41:53Joe Rogan?

  Get those masks on, guys, and introduce some simian, um, biology into them and turn it into a new kind of alien.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, just do a 23andMe.

• 1:42:03Joe Rogan?

  Says the specimens are not a part of our evolutionary history of Earth. Um, the university has since distanced itself from Mao San, claiming its scientists took no part in the research and never came in contact with the full corpses. In no case do we make conclusions about the origin of these samples. University's National Laboratory of Mass Spectrometry with accelerator, accelerator said in a statement. Okay. The presence of carbon 14 allegedly detected in the specimens proved the samples were related to brain and skin tissues from different mummies who died at different times. What does that mean?

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:37Joe Rogan?

  From one individual? Is that saying from one individual? The presence of carbon 14 allegedly detected in the specimens proved that the samples were related to brain and skin tissue from different mummies who died at different times. So they're all different. They come from different times and they're all different little mummies. So that's what they're saying. So what they're saying is that the carbon isotope dating is showing that. That's what it is, right? Is that what they're saying? I think so. Okay.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  So how do you account for the fact that in Egypt and in the Mayan rooms and so forth?

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Hold on, this is our buddy Ryan. U.S. Navy pilot Ryan Graves, who attended the hearing to share his personal experience with alleged UFO sightings, later slammed Mao San's presentation as a stunt. He said yesterday's demonstration was a huge step backwards for this issue, Graves wrote on X, formerly Twitter. "I am deeply disappointed by this unsubstantiated stunt." Well, he's a very legitimate guy, Ryan Graves is, and very intelligent. And if he's saying it's a stunt, now I'm super skeptical. He's a hit. Okay. He has a history of making controversial claims about other alien remains that have been wildly discredited. Widely discredited. Okay. In 2017, he participated in a TV documentary about other specimens recovered near Peru's Nazca Lines,

• 1:43:59Joe Rogan?

  which experts have said to have been concocted out of modified mummies.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:06Joe Rogan?

  So I wonder if they're talking about that other thing when they're saying that.

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  This is older than the one we were looking at.

• 1:44:13Joe Rogan?

  The one we're looking at? When did they find that one? When they find that alien?

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  That's I. It said the same time. That's why I was trying to get into this. And the sources aren't great. It's all this is they're all coming from the same area around the same time, but they all look different.

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that looks super different. That one looks more like the way something you'd find dead. Like the way it's like even the way its legs are rotted away. Like it doesn't look fake.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  That one video we watched or you sent me was getting more towards like they could have been found in a burial type site. That other.

• 1:44:47Speaker 02

  Groups used similar things?

• 1:44:49Joe Rogan?

  Where'd they find this one, though? This is the one I'm interested in.

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't say specifically.

• 1:44:52Joe Rogan?

  But the fact that they did an X-ray and they show the actual fingers and toes.

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:44:56Joe Rogan?

  It looks just like real fingers and real toes with actual bones. That's crazy.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  Cubiform bones, the phalanx, they, you know, they're consistent with, you know, looking at a human hands.

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's consistent with a human hand that would have three fingers, right? It doesn't have, there's not missing digits.

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  So you say it's genetic abnormalities, so they only have three fingers?

• 1:45:15Joe Rogan?

  It could be. Well, there's a group of people in Africa that have like bird feet. Have you ever seen them?

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:45:21Joe Rogan?

  They have toes, it's like a genetic mutation that exists and it's thought to be like a prized thing. And these people have like two toes and their, their feet branch off like this. And there's a bunch of people in this village that have these feet that are like this. I forget what they call them, like bird feet or, I forget how they describe them. Yeah, these are the folks. So see that?

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:42Joe Rogan?

  So now, if you found these guys, and there's not just one of them. Substantial minority of Vedoma have a condition known as extra, you said that, you're the doctor.

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  Actodactyly.

• 1:45:54Joe Rogan?

  Actodactyly, which means the middle three toes are absent and the two outer ones are turned in. Resulting in the tribe being known as the two-toed or ostrich-footed tribe. So go to images and see what that looks like. It's really wild, because there's like a bunch of them hanging out together. Like, look at their feet. So now, if you found a body that had those, you would say, oh, those are aliens.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  No, but look at that alien, if you go back to the one that was original with the eyes and the face and the size.

• 1:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  These are grays, okay?

• 1:46:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, it certainly looks like what I would think a gray would be.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:46:27Joe Rogan?

  And the fact that it doesn't have a thumb is odd, too. But that is also one of the things that people have said about these things. There's also, they always have said that they have very long fingers. And you look at his fingers in relationship to the size of the body, they're very long. Long fingers and very long toes. Yeah, I mean.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  So, how do you account for the fact that there are multiple, you know, from the Syrians to the Egyptians to the Aztecs, Toltecs?

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  Mayans, where they have on their, on their structures, they have imagery of flying saucers.

• 1:47:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Helicopters, on alien, you know, there is coupled with the, they look alien.

• 1:47:08Joe Rogan?

  I think the helicopter one, I think is a fraud.

• 1:47:11Speaker 01

  You think it's all fraud?

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  I think that one is.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  But why is it duplicated?

• 1:47:14Joe Rogan?

  I think that's photoshopped, I think it is.

• 1:47:15Speaker 01

  You think?

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's been shown, but the planes that they've found that are like wooden carved planes, like they look like airplanes that they've found in tombs. That's fascinating, they have a rudder, they have a tail, they have wings, and it looks like a plane.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so how do you count for that? How do you count for that?

• 1:47:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't know what we're looking at, and I think there's more to reality than we see. I have a feeling that our senses are extremely limited, and that there's other dimensions that we don't have access to that might have access to us. I don't necessarily discredit the idea of something traveling from another planet.

• 1:48:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:04Joe Rogan?

  I think we might be dealing with that too. I think we might be dealing with a bunch of different civilizations and entities that are at very different stages of evolution. So if life exists all throughout the galaxy, we know a bunch of things, right? We know that planets have certain ages, we know that some planets are very old and some planets are much younger, and we know that some planets are much closer to the sun and some planets live in a very hospitable environment. We know that some planets like ours are essentially in a shooting gallery because there's nine hundred thousand near earth objects or more that are flying around slamming into things. And if it wasn't for Jupiter, we'd be fucked.

• 1:48:46Joe Rogan?

  If it wasn't for Jupiter's enormous gravity and mass pulling everything into it, that's like basically our catcher. It catches all the shit that flies into our solar system and slams into Jupiter. And of course, the moon itself is pockmarked with, so imagine a planet that doesn't have that issue. Imagine a planet that has a different environment where there's not a bunch of shit flying around. And they think that flying around stuff is largely a part of collisions, like planets colliding with each other in the distant past, and that's actually how Earth got formed. You got a bathroom? Yeah, go, go, go, go, go.

• 1:49:19Speaker 02

  Thanks. This is a good time, I'm investigating this stuff.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's investigating, yes, I'm excited.

• 1:49:25Joe Rogan?

  Investigate. Why would there be? Let's say, go pee, go pee, come on buddy. Thanks. To the left. To the left. Yeah. This dude's already lit. He's had three giant glasses of whiskey. And he's 78 years old.

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got a clearer picture of that egg too.

• 1:49:41Joe Rogan?

  God, I hope my brain works that good, but I'm 78. You know what I'm saying? Like that dude just, he doesn't even have any notes. He's just pulling all this information out of the ether.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  So the guy who took him, you mean the weight?

• 1:49:52Joe Rogan?

  Which, the egg?

• 1:49:53Speaker 02

  No, no, uh, fuck the egg, this is the Nazca Mummy stuff.

• 1:49:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:57Speaker 02

  Uh, he said he removed as many as 200 sets of remains from the cave.

• 1:50:02Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:50:02Speaker 02

  Some of the bodies have been smuggled out of Peru to France, Spain, and Russia.

• 1:50:06Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  In an interview with Reuters, he said, um...

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  This is from...

• 1:50:12Joe Rogan?

  What would you do? Let's ask this, what would you do if somebody got you one of them mummies? If someone said, "Hey Jamie, give me that money that you won from Shane." Ooh, look at that. Whoa, the same thing though, three toes.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Joe Rogan?

  Look how long the fucking toes are.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  I think that's where the x-ray comes from is these.

• 1:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  It's the same guy, this McDowell guy.

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the same guy keeps finding them?

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the same people.

• 1:50:37Joe Rogan?

  Little sus, right?

• 1:50:38Speaker 02

  They found about eight, I think, is what they're saying here. And then McDowell's father is saying they're having a hard time getting them to the US to do more studies.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, super hard. Cut the fucking shit.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  They're already pissed about them disappearing.

• 1:50:51Joe Rogan?

  He'll shoot a rocket over there, pick those things up quick. Um, let me see the skull again? Have they done an x-ray of the skull? Why wouldn't they do that?

• 1:50:58Speaker 02

  Uh, I had an x-ray on one of these.

• 1:51:00Joe Rogan?

  Of the skull? Oh, Jesus Christ. Holy shit dude, it looks like a skull.

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  One of the smaller ones though.

• 1:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but whatever, look at that thing.

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  Could be eggs.

• 1:51:10Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:51:11Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:51:12Joe Rogan?

  What is that?

• 1:51:14Speaker 02

  Like the ribs look...

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if you found out those are like anal toys? And they're just freaks?

• 1:51:18Speaker 02

  I do believe, one of these they were saying was made up of different animal parts and stuff.

• 1:51:21Joe Rogan?

  Come sit down and put a microphone on. So we're looking at x-rays of, one of them is bullshit. Look, look at the fucking x-rays of the skulls, man. Like, you're a doctor. Look at that. That looks like real shit.

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  That looks like real, yeah.

• 1:51:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it looks like real bones.

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 1:51:39Joe Rogan?

  Completely different, yeah.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  X-ray shows it, the cavillarium, the space for the brain.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  What is that thing across his chest? What's that thing?

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  It's out of the sternum. It's their form of sternum.

• 1:51:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I guess, right?

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, because the sternum holes are two sides, left and right together.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Maybe it had surgery.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:58Joe Rogan?

  Maybe it had surgery.

• 1:52:00Speaker 02

  An implant.

• 1:52:01Joe Rogan?

  Jesus. Yeah, maybe that's, it's like neural.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  Where's this from?

• 1:52:05Speaker 02

  Uh, so this is, I found, I was like digging more, this is a slight, this is from this year.

• 1:52:09Joe Rogan?

  Look at that one. Look at that, show that to Dr. Gordon. Look at the same thing. Different finger, the long fingers, long toes. Same thing, three.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:19Joe Rogan?

  And real similar in the way they look.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  So all these are coming out of Peru?

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  They all came from this.

• 1:52:27Speaker 01

  Same area.

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  So that's what, when you disappeared, uh, they said they've gotten close to 200 different bodies.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  I did disappear, I'm here.

• 1:52:32Speaker 02

  Well, you disappeared.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I disappeared.

• 1:52:33Joe Rogan?

  He just went to the bathroom, Jamie. Don't get him mad.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you've reappeared now.

• 1:52:36Joe Rogan?

  He disappeared.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  I just had a pee, come on.

• 1:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:52:39Speaker 01

  Disaparecido.

• 1:52:40Joe Rogan?

  It's like he left you.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Look at, look at that x-ray of the skulls, the skeletons, though, rather.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  Those look.

• 1:52:47Joe Rogan?

  So fascinating.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, those look really.

• 1:52:49Joe Rogan?

  It looks very weird.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  This is what I was seeing too. The videographer isn't known. Um, they don't know who shot this video.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Well, it says the videographer behind the new footage is unknown in no small measure due to the thorny legal and ethical dimensions of handling these allegedly historical and culturally priceless ancient remains. That makes sense. I don't know exactly who shot the video, but there are context clues in the longer, uh, version. One source who had also given, uh, also been granted the tape told DailyMail.com, one, they called them Haqueros, who has long been involved in the promotion of these Nazca mummies, was convicted of assault on public monuments for taking artifacts in 2022. So if you take these artifacts, they go after you.

• 1:53:37Joe Rogan?

  The man received a four-year suspended sentence, was fined about 20,000 Peruvian souls, just 5,190 US dollars, according to Reuters. A clear example of the high-risk, extra-legal measures some have taken to seek either truth or profit from these aliens. That makes sense. So it's dangerous to pull them out. You can get in trouble.

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  So then I think what I was getting to, too, was the journalist?

• 1:54:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Has a lawsuit?

• 1:54:03Joe Rogan?

  He's taking the Peruvian government to court, hoping to negotiate with Peru, as he put it, to be allowed to export the samples to be done in America. The lawsuit is already in for 300 million dollars. Wow. Explained he's pursuing monetary damages to repair his enterprise's damaged reputation, but intends to spend the cash on a museum for the mummies and hookers. And a Ferrari. I want a Ferrari.

• 1:54:27Joe Rogan?

  And Dr. McDowell himself has also recently pled with Peru's government in an open letter published in one of the country's top newspapers, asking for official permission to study these specimens at top-flight scientific facilities in the US. Well, I like that. I like that at least he's trying to get them, if it's true, that he's trying to get them studied. But you imagine if you were one doctor who did find these things, you would receive a tremendous amount of skepticism and assholes like me, like making fun of them. Wes Hollywood is at the Mondrian.

• 1:54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  Interesting stuff, man. So when you look at that as a doctor, does that look like horseshit to you? Or does it look real?

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  No, it looks real. I mean, the x-rays that you were showing. You know, the fact that they came from Nasca with all those lines, and I know about it all.

• 1:55:13Joe Rogan?

  In Machu Picchu.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  In Machu Picchu.

• 1:55:15Joe Rogan?

  Which is a really amazing place that they, to this day, don't really understand how they built it.

• 1:55:21Speaker 01

  Correct. Allison went there, to Machu Picchu, yeah. So she was chewing on, uh, she was chewing on coca leaves.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  In a candy and so forth. But I gave her diamox. I gave her diamox so that she can acclimate.

• 1:55:36Joe Rogan?

  Oxygen.

• 1:55:37Speaker 01

  Diamox is the tablet you take to boost your...

• 1:55:39Joe Rogan?

  Cordyceps mushroom's good for that, too.

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  There's a lot of things good.

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  This is a pharmaceutical pill. But, you know, in my mind, knowing that it's Nasca lines and the association of possible aliens, and then finding these, you know, these corpses coming from Nasca, you know, you put one and one together and it makes sense that.

• 1:56:01Joe Rogan?

  Sorta.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  Sorta.

• 1:56:02Joe Rogan?

  It also makes sense that if you were gonna hoax things, that's where you would hoax them.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  Correct. I got it. And that's skepticism that you have for it.

• 1:56:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm just being rational. I'm not being skeptical. I'm honestly not skeptical. I'm kinda open minded about this stuff.

• 1:56:14Speaker 01

  So you don't believe that it's real?

• 1:56:16Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if it's real.

• 1:56:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:56:17Joe Rogan?

  I like to think it's real, but that's the problem is that I really wanna think it's real.

• 1:56:20Speaker 01

  So what do you do? You say it's not real, but it looks real?

• 1:56:22Joe Rogan?

  I don't say nothing.

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:56:23Joe Rogan?

  I just talk shit.

• 1:56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  That's what got to here.

• 1:56:28Joe Rogan?

  That's what we're doing. We're just talking shit. I don't know. I'm not an expert in biology. I don't understand. I mean, the skeleton looks real to me, but what do I know? If I was gonna make a fake skeleton, could I do that with a bunch of like discarded bones? Maybe. What I'm skeptical about is the way the joints, they extend.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  On the fingers?

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, not just the fingers, yeah, but they look like ours, right? Like the same way, if you go back to that skeleton again, please.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  If you look at it in the X-ray, what you see is the bones, they're formed, they're very similar to the way ours are formed.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:56:59Joe Rogan?

  Where at the end of it, not on the one of the actual skeleton, Jamie? Yeah, so like, look at how the bones are at the top and where the joint is. That looks like how our bones are. Like, the hinge in the joint of the elbow looks exactly like how a human's is, except it's one bone instead of two, which is, let's be honest, probably a better design. You know, the two bones, that little, I broke that little one before. You ever broke that little one?

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  The little onar.

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I broke the fibula too.

• 1:57:24Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:57:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  The small one.

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the small one on the leg.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  In jiu-jitsu?

• 1:57:30Joe Rogan?

  No, kickboxing.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  Kickboxing.

• 1:57:31Joe Rogan?

  Not even checking a kick. I just, we were kicking at the same time and a heel hit my shin.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  It looks suggestive, okay, of it being something that might be real.

• 1:57:41Joe Rogan?

  It definitely looks suggestive of something that might be real and very unique, right? Very different than our anatomy.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  And it's our prejudice that says that, oh, we're the only people here.

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think that.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  What do you think?

• 1:57:52Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:53Joe Rogan?

  I don't, I think there's, I think the possibility that something could be so advanced that all of our ideas of how it got here and how long it's been here are just silly. I think we might be just like these people in the Amazon that my friend Paul Rosley is running into, they don't know that he goes on the Joe Rogan Experience and reaches 15 million people, they don't have any idea, they have no idea. So what do they see? They see some guy with clothes on, like, what's this asshole doing? And, you know, he's out there in the Amazon and, you know, and then he takes a picture and this is, their experience with him is probably kind of similar to our experience, but except like much more exaggerated with aliens. Like, if you came into contact with something that's a million years more advanced than

• 1:58:38Joe Rogan?

  us, like, what would that contact be like? Would, why, I mean, are we so limited in our understanding of how you move through the universe that we assume that everything has to use rockets? And everything has to burn fuel and shoot things and to defy gravity by, you know, by pushing against it? Maybe not, maybe there's much more advanced propulsion systems that exist. These are the hands? Yeah, they're dissecting it. They're dissecting it. Whoa. What the fuck, man?

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, the dissection, they'll know.

• 1:59:16Joe Rogan?

  That looks like weird bones in a hand. That's creepy. That's so creepy, look at their skin. I mean, obviously mummified, but how fucking weird. How weird, look at the bones underneath it, that's crazy! That is so crazy.

• 1:59:34Speaker 01

  And you're gonna tell me someone put this together as a joke?

• 1:59:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't know, I mean, I'm looking at this, I don't know, I don't know who's a part of this, but when he peels that back and you see those bones again, that is fucking nuts.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  That's so wild. But also, why are those bones so clear for a mummified thing? Those bones look, in my mind, they don't look mummified, they look like more recent. But what do I know? It almost looks wet, go back to that image?

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was wet.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  The other thing was shiny, too.

• 2:00:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, so is that because they put something on it? Or is that what happens when you cut that thing open?

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  I'll try to find a longer video and see if I can figure out how they did it.

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  Them putting like distilled water on it during the process of dissecting it. Yeah, to dissect it.

• 2:00:21Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they're trying to clean off the bones and they did something to it to brush it and put water on it there.

• 2:00:26Speaker 01

  You know.

• 2:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Whatever that is.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  How old did they say that that was?

• 2:00:29Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question.

• 2:00:30Speaker 01

  Did they carbon date it? Or? See, that would be the thing to do, is to carbon date it to find out whether or not if it's that old, then it should be petrified and therefore it shouldn't look like that.

• 2:00:41Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, like if it's a million years old.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  If it's a million years old.

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  But if it's only 500 years old, then things get real weird.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  So the way that the bone should look.

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's weird as shit.

• 2:00:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:52Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is like, there's so many people that essentially make a living off of lying. They make a living off of bullshitting. You know?

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:02Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of that going on.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so religiously, I mean, look at, from a religious standpoint, what's the impact of acknowledging that there are other species in extraterrestrials? What's the impact on religion here in the United States or here in the world?

• 2:01:19Joe Rogan?

  Depends on which religion you're talking about, right?

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter.

• 2:01:23Joe Rogan?

  I think the Vatican has been pretty open to the idea that we're not alone and that God could possibly have created other life forms. See, that's true, I'm pretty sure that's true. I think the Vatican gave a statement within the last decade or so about this.

• 2:01:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:37Joe Rogan?

  But they probably know some shit, right?

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, they probably have it.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  They've got a lot of ancient books and...

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've seen some of the Russian studies that, I mean, where they had aliens who crashed in a in a flying saucer and they abused the aliens.

• 2:01:51Joe Rogan?

  Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption. Oh, that's cool. Jesus gave him a fucking hall pass.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Let's it be those who come from other planets.

• 2:02:02Joe Rogan?

  They may be a different life form that does not need Christ's redemption. The Vatican chief astronomer said. That makes sense. I mean, if they come from somewhere else. Difficult to exclude the possibility that other intelligent life exists in the universe. He noted that one field of astronomy is now actively seeking biomarkers and spectrum analysis of other stars and planets. That's true. They definitely have done that. These potential forms of life could include those that have no need of oxygen or hydrogen, he said. Just as God created multiple forms of life on Earth, he said, there may be diverse forms throughout the universe. That makes sense. That's an open-minded religious person.

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:39Joe Rogan?

  It's not in contrast with faith because we cannot place limits on the creative freedom of God. That makes sense. Yeah, if you're gonna be logical and be a believer in God, that's the way to do it, right? To say, look, if God exists, we just might be too limited in our understanding of the world to think that, we think that God just made us and this is it. But it might be God has made life all throughout the universe.

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you believe in God, you have to accept the fact that he's on other planets. We're not the exclusivity.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Maybe God is the universe.

• 2:03:12Speaker 01

  Well, that's what they've been saying. God is the universe.

• 2:03:15Joe Rogan?

  The universe is God, yeah, which makes sense because the universe is a creative force. It makes things constantly. It's constantly making stars. There's stellar nurseries and planets and...

• 2:03:25Speaker 01

  So what's your take on Bigfoot these days?

• 2:03:27Joe Rogan?

  I think Bigfoot is mostly nonsense. That is sort of a historical memory. I think for sure we know that Gigantopithecus was a real animal that coexisted with human beings. And we know that, what's the date of Gigantopithecus? It's somewhere, it's more than hundreds of thousands of years, right? But it just makes sense that if human beings have been around for that long and that thing's been around for that long and then. Two hundred thousand years ago, two million to approximately three hundred thousand and two hundred thousand years ago. So as recently as possibly two hundred thousand years ago, but that's essentially based on what they found.

• 2:04:08Joe Rogan?

  Now they're constantly finding new things, right? So like they didn't even know Denisovans were a thing. Which are a new type of uh human.

• 2:04:16Speaker 01

  Is that the gigantic ones?

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  No, they're not gigantic. They're just a different, like there was Neanderthal, Homo sapiens. Denisovan was another branch of the the human tree. And they didn't discover them. I wanna say two thousand ten. When did they discover Denisovans?

• 2:04:33Speaker 01

  That recent.

• 2:04:33Joe Rogan?

  I think they discovered them in Russia and they found them in China and so they they know that there's that. And then there was another species that they found recently that's even more recent, that's large headed people. That were, they had larger heads than us, that existed with us. They had like big fucking eyebrows and big heads.

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  What about that uh? They're what seventeen feet tall, sixteen feet tall?

• 2:04:59Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  Gigantic humans that they're, you know, I don't know. Here's the problem. Here's the problem. You don't know what is real.

• 2:05:08Joe Rogan?

  When was Denisovans?

• 2:05:11Joe Rogan?

  When they discovered that?

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Well, they were, they lived, I think seventy-five thousand years ago, but.

• 2:05:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  How tall were they?

• 2:05:18Speaker 02

  They were like Neanderthals.

• 2:05:20Joe Rogan?

  When did they discover Denisovan fossils?

• 2:05:22Speaker 02

  That's what I'm trying to figure out. They had, it's one piece they found.

• 2:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Right. But it was pretty recent. Twenty fourteen? Yeah.

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  You're right. There's a lot of shit that's coming on the internet. The last thing that I was reading, not last, but one of the things that I read was they found a bones of people that were like.

• 2:05:40Joe Rogan?

  Giant people.

• 2:05:41Speaker 01

  Giant people, yeah.

• 2:05:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've heard that before. I've never seen any of it. I I wouldn't dismiss it. You know, there's giants in the Bible, there's giants in historical record where they talk about, yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:50Joe Rogan?

  It's completely possible that if you have pygmies and you have um, you know, you know about the hobbit people?

• 2:05:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:57Joe Rogan?

  On the island of Flores?

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:05:59Joe Rogan?

  You didn't know about that?

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:06:00Joe Rogan?

  Um.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  But they're hobbit.

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think they call them Homo flores- floresis. And what these are is these little tiny ape-like humanoids that lived alongside people. I think they've dated them to a hundred thousand years ago. Might be earlier. At the one point in time, I think they thought it was 10,000 years ago, but I think they pushed it back. But these were like another branch of the human tree, and they were really tiny, and they used tools, and they hunted, and they think that, you know, that they're probably wiped out, at least partially, yeah.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  Nice tits.

• 2:06:38Joe Rogan?

  Homo floresiensis.

• 2:06:39Speaker 01

  Floresiensis.

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  And that's what they looked like, and they lived alongside us. So they think that might be a case of island dwarfism as well. You know, like, there's a thing that happens to mammals when they're on islands where they get smaller, and weirdly enough, reptiles get larger. That's why you have Komodo dragons.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  Love them.

• 2:07:03Joe Rogan?

  Pretty cool, right? So there's Homo sapiens, and there's Homo flores.

• 2:07:06Speaker 01

  Monster lizards.

• 2:07:08Joe Rogan?

  There's like a bunch of different types of humans that existed, and we were the most clever and the most vicious. We went, ha ha.

• 2:07:17Speaker 01

  Survivor of the fittest.

• 2:07:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and the smartest. We're the smartest. We're the ones that are the most clever.

• 2:07:21Speaker 01

  The calvarium, the size of the skull, as it got bigger.

• 2:07:24Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is, is these ones that they found recently, see if you can find that article, the large-headed people that they found recently, another totally new branch.

• 2:07:32Speaker 01

  They're large-headed, like the same height as, same height?

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, same height as ours, but larger heads, probably much stronger. They're like, you know, Neanderthals, far stronger than us. Yeah, dubbed large-headed people. A nomadic group once lived alongside Homo sapiens in Eastern Asia. According to Science Alert, fossilized remains unearthed from sediment layers dated about 200, over 200,000 years ago, revealed individuals with disproportionately large cranial volumes. So see, click on that, like, where they have images.

• 2:08:01Speaker 01

  December 2024, just last.

• 2:08:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, real recent. Real recent they found this, or they've come out with this. I think they had images of what they look like, what they think they look like. Like someone did like a detailed, oh, large-headed people, you get regular folks.

• 2:08:19Joe Rogan?

  These are regular folks, unfortunately, big heads.

• 2:08:24Speaker 01

  I got hit.

• 2:08:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, homo Julius SSS. Yeah, yeah. So this is another branch. Look at the size of that fucker. Jacked.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  New humans.

• 2:08:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, wild. Big heads, larger heads and bigger brains.

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:08:41Joe Rogan?

  Bigger brains than us, lived 200,000 years ago. It's funny because we have them like with like a stupid stone tool, like maybe they were smart. Maybe we just fucking wiped them out. Look at the size of their heads though, Jesus Christ. Crazy. Look at that one there, he's got a six pack.

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:57Joe Rogan?

  The guy standing up. Look at the one down where he's walking like Bigfoot, click on that.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:01Joe Rogan?

  This guy's jacked.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 2:09:04Joe Rogan?

  Imagine running into that.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Biceps and deltoids, look at that. Yeah.

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Imagine running into that dude?

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Back in the day.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  He's dead.

• 2:09:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's probably why.

• 2:09:13Speaker 01

  Look at him send the.

• 2:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:14Speaker 01

  Yo, yo baby.

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  Photos are helping get us cool.

• 2:09:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, AI is awesome, yeah. AI is awesome. Look at that, make that bigger.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Look how fucking cool they look.

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  Bro, could you imagine?

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:27Joe Rogan?

  Walking through the jungle and running into these dudes, like a bunch of them?

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  Yo. What do you want?

• 2:09:36Joe Rogan?

  Look at, imagine.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is so much more to be found, you know?

• 2:09:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, just in our own history, right? The history of Earth, the different forms of life that don't exist anymore. And it, you know, there's so much variety that it really does make you wonder, like what are we seeing? We're seeing these alien bones that they're x-raying. What are we seeing when, you know, people report that they're experiencing contact with these entities? Are they from another dimension? Are they from another planet? Is everybody crazy? Is everybody just making things up?

• 2:10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:07Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 2:10:08Speaker 01

  How do you account for all the people that said, "I've been taken"?

• 2:10:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very compelling.

• 2:10:14Speaker 01

  I've been taken.

• 2:10:14Joe Rogan?

  It's very compelling, but here's the question, were they physically taken? Here's the question. The realm of dreams is a gigantic mystery. And the realm of dreams is hyper-realistic sometimes. I had a hyper-realistic dream last night. I wish I could remember what it was, but it's one of those things. It was crazy. Um, but I, I got up in the middle of the night, it woke me up and then I got up to pee and I was like, what the fuck is wrong with me? And then I went back to sleep. But while I was experiencing that dream, I remember being aware that it was a dream eventually, but while it was all going down, I was like, this is a crazy dream. Like thinking like this is so vivid and so realistic.

• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  So if you live in a dream for the rest of your life, you are still alive and you are still experiencing things. You're just experiencing things in a, a non-physical way, the way we interact with reality today. So you and I are interacting with reality with a couple of glasses of whiskey, a cigar. We have a wooden table, we're talking into microphones. But the reality that you interact with in dreams is, it's, it's not tangible. It's existing, you're experiencing it, but it's in some other realm. It's some realm of the mind and some realm of consciousness. And maybe what you're doing is accessing a dimension of possibilities that is entirely created by consciousness.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  And maybe there's multiple layers to that and things can come from other places to us that way. It's always been interesting to me that these people that have these abduction experiences. It seems like the vast majority, and I've read, um, abducted, which is John Mack's book and, you know, I, I, I'm aware of the Betty and Barney Hill story. And this is, uh, Travis Walton, the guy who got abducted in Arizona.

• 2:12:05Speaker 01

  That's the black and white couple.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  No, no, the Betty and Barney Hill are.

• 2:12:08Speaker 01

  Benny Barney Hill.

• 2:12:09Joe Rogan?

  Actually Angela Hill, who's the granddaughter of them, is a UFC fighter.

• 2:12:13Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 2:12:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. She, she was on the podcast and didn't tell me that until after the podcast was over. I'm like, damn.

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:19Joe Rogan?

  Was your grandfather? That's so crazy. Her grandfather was Barney Hill. But, so these people all have very compelling stories. Now, the difference between Travis Walton's story and the other stories is people saw Travis Walton go up to that UFO. Travis Walton disappeared for five days. Travis Walton came back from being in the woods for five days with this crazy story. And the other people, most of them, it happens at night. Right? And so, when you're dreaming, like, who knows what the fuck is really happening? And if you're lying in bed and you get abducted by aliens and they return you to your bed, like, wha- what really happened? Is there a video of you disappearing? Or if we had like a, a video in that room, would you have the same experience but your

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  physical body never goes anywhere? It's like, what are you really experiencing?

• 2:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:08Joe Rogan?

  That's the question. And I'm not doubting that these people have something happen to them. But we do know that when people are dreaming, there's an endogenous release of psychedelic chemicals. There's this crazy experience of dreams and of vivid dreams and lucid dreams. So what is that? And if that is something that can be trans- traversed, is that, is that something that someone can enter into? Is it possible that other intelligence that's different than ours, that's more advanced than ours, that lives in a different dimension than ours, has access to the mind in these, in these exchanges?

• 2:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the subconscious.

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And maybe even physically. I'm not even, I'm not even dismissing physical contact. But I'm just saying that many of these cases where people claim to have been abducted happen at night. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think the, the realm of consciousness is, I think we're very arrogant in our belief that we understand what's going on.

• 2:14:09Speaker 01

  We don't.

• 2:14:10Joe Rogan?

  With how we interface with reality.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  No, we don't.

• 2:14:12Joe Rogan?

  We, we know, we have things that we count on because they're, like, every time I come here, I'm pretty sure the same garbage is gonna be on this table, it's gonna be the same. But I don't think we're really sure with how consciousness interacts with the world and how much of it is real.

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  I agree. In the subconscious, uh, space, you know, the question is, is that when the extraterrestrials invades our space? Our psychiatric space? And therefore, in, in, uh...

• 2:14:42Speaker 01

  Gives to us in our brain the perception of everything that we perceive. Meaning the alien, the.

• 2:14:51Joe Rogan?

  Maybe even Bigfoot. Whatever, everything. But maybe that's what Bigfoot is, right?

• 2:14:56Speaker 01

  But you think so?

• 2:14:58Joe Rogan?

  Maybe, I mean.

• 2:14:59Speaker 01

  That it's our perception, unconscious?

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  Maybe something you're experiencing that's from somewhere else. Or it's maybe it's your consciousness interacting with reality in a completely alien environment that is guaranteed to give you a heightened sense of anxiety, the woods at night. Right? A lot of these people are experiencing these things in the woods at night. Maybe there's a level of consciousness you reach under those circumstances where you interact with things that you ordinarily cannot interact with. And maybe that's why there's a lack of physical evidence in our dimension. Like the physical evidence in our dimension is very limited. One thing that's compelling, and maybe the only thing that's compelling, is dermal ridges that they find on these footprints. So they find these footprints in muck, like where they step in mud and muck and stuff,

• 2:15:46Joe Rogan?

  and they leave behind not just footprints, but footprints with dermal ridges like fingerprints, which is very difficult to fake, especially in like the 1970s and the 1980s where some of these things were required. So it's like, I don't know what we're dealing with, but there's enough people that talk about that experience and it makes you pause. I don't believe, but I don't disbelieve. And as far as Bigfoot being an actual large ape that lives undisturbed in the Pacific Northwest, I'm very skeptical because there's too many hunters now, and too many people with cameras, and too many camera traps, there's too many cellphone cameras, you know, where they, the trail cameras snap things that are going by, wildlife biologists use them.

• 2:16:30Joe Rogan?

  We know of like a couple Jaguars that exist in the United States, and the reason why we know about them is because of trail cameras. So the fact that there's zero trail camera footage that's.

• 2:16:39Speaker 01

  Alien.

• 2:16:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it doesn't, the Bigfoot thing is like, maybe. But maybe you're, maybe you're interacting with something that's not physical. It might be something that's interdimensional or something that you, you might be looking at the past, you might be interacting with.

• 2:16:57Joe Rogan?

  Whatever experience this thing has had many, many, many, many years ago, it's like left echoes. It might be echoes in space, echoes in time. And that, under certain states, you can briefly access these echoes. Briefly access the, these things that, that may have existed or might exist in other dimensions.

• 2:17:25Joe Rogan?

  I'm not ruling it out.

• 2:17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:26Joe Rogan?

  I wouldn't bet the house on it.

• 2:17:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:17:28Joe Rogan?

  I wouldn't bet the house on it, but I do think there's a lot of bullshit artists too, though. I've talked to a lot of Bigfoot people that are bullshit artists.

• 2:17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the balance that obviously you're talking about is the fact that there are so many people who are trying to present the factual evidence that it exists, that causes you to doubt it.

• 2:17:49Speaker 01

  So, you know, I believe that there's a possibility of all the things that we talked about, from Bigfoot to aliens and so forth. But there's a tempered perception of it as being reality. That it might be there, but we would rather deny it as opposed to accept it. Because what happens if you accept it as a hundred percent truth? What is the mindset on it?

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can't accept it as a hundred percent truth unless you have a hundred percent evidence.

• 2:18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Joe Rogan?

  Right? We don't have that yet.

• 2:18:20Speaker 01

  You want to have physical evidence, but we don't have it, so.

• 2:18:23Joe Rogan?

  You know who believes in him?

• 2:18:24Speaker 01

  Pardon?

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  You know who really believes in Bigfoot?

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:18:27Joe Rogan?

  Jane Goodall.

• 2:18:28Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. The gorilla lady, yeah.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever heard her talk about it?

• 2:18:32Speaker 01

  No, why does she believe in it?

• 2:18:33Joe Rogan?

  She believes from all the eyewitness sightings and the possibility and, you know, her time living with primates.

• 2:18:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:18:40Joe Rogan?

  See, if you can find Jane Goodall talking about it, because when she talks about it, she talks about it with great enthusiasm. It's really interesting.

• 2:18:46Speaker 01

  Okay, enthusiasm with factual facts to back it up? Or just the large number of people who have stated that they've seen it or experienced it or?

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:58Joe Rogan?

  One thing, though, is like when she was saying this was quite a while ago, like more than a decade or two ago. And I think that, you know, over time, when there's still no evidence, people get more and more skeptical. I've talked to a bunch of people that have had Bigfoot experiences. I don't necessarily believe any of them. I don't disbelieve them, but I'm just like, there's not one sto- I've talked to UFO abduction people and I believe them. I believe them.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  You believe them?

• 2:19:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I believe Travis Walton. I talked to that guy. He does not seem like a bullshit artist and he hasn't changed his story in like fucking thirty years.

• 2:19:31Speaker 01

  That's a good one, yeah.

• 2:19:32Speaker 06

  Everybody talks to me about- I- I would- I'm romantic. I would like Bigfoot to exist. I've met people who swear they've seen Bigfoot. And I think the interesting thing is every single continent, there is an equivalent of Bigfoot or Sasquatch. There's the Yeti, there's the Yari in Australia, there's the Chinese wild man, and on and on and on. And, you know, I've had stories from people who, you have to believe them. So, there's something, I don't know what it is. I've always open-minded.

• 2:20:07Speaker 07

  What about other?

• 2:20:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:20:10Speaker 07

  Opposedly mythological, I guess I should say, like the Loch Ness monster?

• 2:20:13Speaker 06

  Loch Ness monster obviously doesn't exist.

• 2:20:16Speaker 07

  Uh, alien beings?

• 2:20:18Speaker 01

  Alien beings, what's your thing on that?

• 2:20:19Speaker 06

  I don't. I think that it doesn't make sense to think we're the only intelligent form of life. This wall that was built between us, we're- we're just the only really intelligent, capable of this, that and the other. Um, difference in kind between us and the other animals, that wall is broken down and the chimps helped to break it down.

• 2:20:40Speaker 07

  Do you?

• 2:20:41Speaker 01

  The chimps helped to break it down?

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, her experience with chimps, you know, she's been embedded with chimps.

• 2:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't, I definitely don't not believe, like I said, I don't disbelieve. It's not like you say aliens aren't real, UFOs aren't real, it's all lies. All the people are lying. I don't think that at all. I think the, I think reality is weird. I think it's weirder than our senses are capable of detecting. That's what I think.

• 2:21:07Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I tend to be more on the side that they exist until you prove that they don't exist.

• 2:21:14Joe Rogan?

  You know what's really weird is underwater aliens. Underwater extraterrestrials or underwater

• 2:21:20Speaker 01

  Oh, the cities.

• 2:21:20Joe Rogan?

  UAPs. I don't know about cities. Are cities under there?

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, cities where they have their spaceships at the trenches, in the trenches, yeah.

• 2:21:29Joe Rogan?

  I've never seen any data.

• 2:21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:31Joe Rogan?

  But I have seen video.

• 2:21:32Speaker 01

  That's the point.

• 2:21:33Joe Rogan?

  There's video of things moving underwater at very high rates of speed. In fact, some of the whistleblowers, and again, how much of that's real? But some of the whistleblowers from the government have claimed that they have detected things underwater that are enormous, like the size of a football field, and they're moving 500 knots underwater with, which no visible means of propulsion.

• 2:21:57Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:21:57Joe Rogan?

  They're, they think that this is where they hide in plain sight. They just exist in the water.

• 2:22:02Speaker 01

  So those videos that have come out recently of the Navy aide-viators who have chased UFOs that have gone into the water and they've seen these large reflections under the water of huge spaceships and so forth.

• 2:22:18Joe Rogan?

  I haven't, I haven't heard any of like, I've, I've heard, there was the Commander David Fravor, the Tic Tac event where there was this thing that was like 20 foot wide. It looked like a Tic Tac. And they think there was something under it in the water. There was a disturbance that looked like, you know, like, like an underwater submarine that's emerging or reaching the top of the surface. And then when they were flying near it, it went down. And then there's been other people, other pilots that have actually seen large physical crafts in the water. But again, I've never seen any photos that's that are compelling.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  So the chasing of the UAP.

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  That's fascinating.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  Is that real or is that figment?

• 2:23:01Joe Rogan?

  The what they call those, um, you know, what do they call them? Extra medium and intermedium. Um, transmedium. They call them transmedium crafts, which means they can fly in the air and they can fly through the water.

• 2:23:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Um, they they have seen things dunk into the water. They have video of one, but it's very grainy. It's very grainy night vision, thermal vision of this thing dunking into the water and then they don't know what happened. Then it came out of the water. It was it was flying around again. They don't know what the fuck that is. They they're just guessing.

• 2:23:31Speaker 01

  And looking at the physics of it, the fact that it was able to do a ninety degree change in motion.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:23:37Speaker 01

  And then down into the water and then coming up. How do you account for that?

• 2:23:41Joe Rogan?

  You don't.

• 2:23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Look, the really crazy one is the Tic Tac because the Tic Tac, they have a bunch of different types of data. They have, first of all, the pilots who saw it, they have the video of from the pilots cabins. They have, um, this radar footage that tracked this thing going from above fifty thousand miles to fifty feet in like one second. They don't know how the fuck anything can do that. And then it takes off. When they video it, this thing taking off from their their visual, from their recording, their screens, it takes off at such an insane rate of speed. They said anything biological would just be turned to jelly instantly.

• 2:24:16Speaker 01

  Killed because of the.

• 2:24:18Joe Rogan?

  The G-force would just be insane. It's just insane rates of speed. And no, no visible means of propulsion. It does it from a completely stationary perspective and then boom, just takes off. Yeah.

• 2:24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've talked about dimensional, uh, the fact that those unidentified flying objects, they go into a different dementia. Dimension as well, you know.

• 2:24:40Joe Rogan?

  Maybe a different dementia, too.

• 2:24:41Speaker 01

  Dementia, yeah, dementia. They're in a state of dementia.

• 2:24:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is the one that goes in the water.

• 2:24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:46Joe Rogan?

  So look how grainy this is. It's like, what am I looking at?

• 2:24:48Speaker 01

  So the fact that it's grainy means what?

• 2:24:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're just looking at it from a long distance with aircraft, you know, optics. So these are weapon optics, right?

• 2:24:59Speaker 01

  So graininess means it's less.

• 2:25:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's dark out. Well, it's dark out and this is how they're seeing this thing. And then it just goes into the water. And then if you hear it, you hear the recording, hear the recording, Jamie. Listen to them freak out when it.

• 2:25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're they're freaking.

• 2:25:16Speaker 01

  Right into the water, yeah.

• 2:25:18Joe Rogan?

  So the thing went into the water?

• 2:25:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:25:19Joe Rogan?

  And then also went out of the water?

• 2:25:20Speaker 01

  Tic Tac.

• 2:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, um, but the thing is, how many of these things are ours? Not zero. How many of these things like, have you ever seen that underwater drone that the United States has developed?

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  No, I haven't seen that one.

• 2:25:34Joe Rogan?

  Fucking cool, it looks like a UFO. Looks like a UFO that flies underwater. It goes underwater. It's not, I don't think it goes above the water. I think it only goes underwater, but it looks like a spaceship.

• 2:25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but with the rate of acceleration and the ability to change direction.

• 2:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:25:51Speaker 01

  You know, those are things that are in the reality, in the real world, you know, the physics behind it. As you said, everyone, if it went in that rate of ascent or descent and movement, it would kill everybody inside.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:07Speaker 01

  Momentum, yeah.

• 2:26:08Joe Rogan?

  But then the question is like, what is it doing? Is it actually experiencing G force at all? Because if it's some sort of a gravity propulsion device, it might be experiencing no G force.

• 2:26:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:26:18Joe Rogan?

  And it might be just pushing space out of the way as it moves forward. We don't understand, that's like.

• 2:26:25Speaker 01

  Do we have that technology?

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  It's a good question.

• 2:26:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  It's a good question.

• 2:26:28Speaker 01

  If we have that technology, then it explains it all. But the question is, as long as we don't acknowledge the fact that we're at that level of technology, then you have to account for, where's it coming from?

• 2:26:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, there's definitely a lot of questions. I mean, I definitely don't claim to have any answers.

• 2:26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:44Joe Rogan?

  What is this one?

• 2:26:45Speaker 01

  But it's cool.

• 2:26:46Speaker 02

  The manta ray thing.

• 2:26:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, look at this sucker. Look at this.

• 2:26:49Speaker 01

  This is the one that goes.

• 2:26:50Joe Rogan?

  This is a drone that we developed. It's like a manta ray drone.

• 2:26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the mini sub.

• 2:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also mini, it's pretty big.

• 2:26:58Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 2:26:59Joe Rogan?

  But look at it, it looks like a fucking UFO that goes under the water. And it flies through the water. And also, like, what, what are we looking for? Are we looking for foreign subs or are we looking for aliens?

• 2:27:12Speaker 01

  Both.

• 2:27:13Joe Rogan?

  I wonder.

• 2:27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:14Joe Rogan?

  I wonder, I wonder, that's, imagine if they knew some stuff was under the ocean and they don't want to tell anybody because they don't want to freak people out.

• 2:27:22Speaker 01

  Duh.

• 2:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:23Speaker 01

  Duh. Yeah. I've seen articles where it talks about cities, communities underneath the ocean in the San Andreas, not San Andreas Fault, what is that fault line called? Um, not the fault, the uh...

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Outside of California?

• 2:27:37Speaker 01

  No, no, no. The deepest trenches, the Mariana Trench. Yeah.

• 2:27:41Joe Rogan?

  Are there cities down there? What are, where, what websites are you reading?

• 2:27:45Speaker 02

  I think I know what his algorithm is.

• 2:27:47Speaker 01

  You know what I'm talking about?

• 2:27:49Speaker 01

  And I'm not doing suicide, man, or Ibogaine, or Ryawaska, you know?

• 2:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Normal. So, I haven't heard anything about cities in the Mariana Trench. Jamie, have you heard anything about cities?

• 2:27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, look it up.

• 2:28:00Speaker 02

  I know where I'm headed.

• 2:28:02Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:28:03Speaker 02

  I know I'm gonna be on the YouTube channel.

• 2:28:05Speaker 01

  I haven't smoked anything or taken any pills.

• 2:28:07Joe Rogan?

  You've been drinking whiskey since...

• 2:28:08Speaker 01

  That's nothing. Come on.

• 2:28:10Joe Rogan?

  Quite a bit of that whiskey, sir.

• 2:28:11Speaker 01

  Nah. It's nothing.

• 2:28:13Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot.

• 2:28:14Speaker 01

  Glutathion.

• 2:28:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know if it totally helps. You sound a little hammered.

• 2:28:17Speaker 01

  You think?

• 2:28:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, give me another one, glutathions.

• 2:28:20Speaker 01

  You need another one? Okay.

• 2:28:21Joe Rogan?

  How many you got?

• 2:28:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:22Joe Rogan?

  How many do you take while you're drinking?

• 2:28:23Speaker 01

  I took two. I took one early this morning and just took another one because I figured we'd finish the bottle.

• 2:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Jesus, you with the finishing the bottle. You're gonna die from that.

• 2:28:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:28:32Joe Rogan?

  Does this really help your level?

• 2:28:33Speaker 01

  Nick who's sitting outside, he and I sit down and we'll drink a bottle.

• 2:28:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:37Speaker 01

  You know, over a period of about four hours.

• 2:28:39Joe Rogan?

  You might wanna go to a AA meeting.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  Uh, you think?

• 2:28:44Speaker 01

  Been there.

• 2:28:45Joe Rogan?

  What is the, um, Mariana Trench cities all about?

• 2:28:48Speaker 01

  No, it's, it's not the Mariana. It's one of the trenches that are out there in the world.

• 2:28:54Joe Rogan?

  Just Google trench underwater UFO city.

• 2:28:57Speaker 01

  UFO. Yeah, that's a good one.

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna go right to Reddit.

• 2:29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know what? We've been on this, on this discussion about, uh, bears and, uh, Mariana Trench and UFOs and abductions and so forth.

• 2:29:11Joe Rogan?

  Fun stuff.

• 2:29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, you know, it reminds me of 438 where we were talking about every fucking day. I mean, you blew me out of the water with that. I'll tell you the truth. We were there for three and a half hours on the first one and when I left the studio, because I thought it was in Woodland Hills. I thought it was only supposed to be like thirty minutes or so.

• 2:29:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I left and I sat in my car for an hour to recuperate. From that first visit with you, it was just way beyond that.

• 2:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if there really are things that are monitoring us and checking us out, it makes sense. If they, if life exists and it's more advanced than us somewhere else, whether it's in another dimension or it's on another planet, it completely makes sense to me that they would visit us.

• 2:29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, they want to see how fucked up we are in terms of nuclear weapons.

• 2:30:01Joe Rogan?

  Sure. And if we're on a path, a predictable path of evolution that almost all intelligent life goes on, there's probably going to be pitfalls that they could help us navigate.

• 2:30:13Speaker 01

  I would think so. I would hope so.

• 2:30:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, like if Jane Goodall's studying the chimps, like let's imagine they're still studying the chimps 500 years from now, 1,000 years from now, 100,000 years from now. Let's imagine civilization still exists, chimps still exist, we've protected it, we've done the smart thing and they still, what if they start making tools? What if they start making weapons? What if they eventually start going to war with each other? What if one chimp figures out gunpowder? Look, if their brains keep growing like ours allegedly did.

• 2:30:39Speaker 01

  Sounds like us.

• 2:30:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right. Imagine, imagine if we were observing emerging intelligence in other primates other than us. How would we handle it? Like, how would we handle it if all of a sudden chimpanzees, not all of a sudden, but hundreds of thousands of years now, what would our future society do? If in the future chimpanzees start developing weapons and buildings and planes and doing all the shit that we do when we're far more advanced than that then?

• 2:31:07Speaker 01

  Is that Planet of the Apes?

• 2:31:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's not because like you would think that they would become a different thing. You know, they would become like we did, right? Like we used to be Australopithecus, we used to be all these different hominids. What if they eventually become like more hairless, they start wearing clothes? It would be fucking, real interesting to see how human beings would handle that. You know, like what would we do a million years from now if hominids kept advancing down an evolutionary plane?

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  And they eventually got to a place where they were like ancient humans?

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  How would we do? I mean, if we were like super advanced, like, oh, you guys can't go to war. Don't war. We stopped war a while ago. You guys need brain chips. Brain chips stopped the war.

• 2:31:50Speaker 01

  Control.

• 2:31:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:53Speaker 01

  Interesting, interesting.

• 2:31:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, it is interesting because like, what's different between us and any other people that have ever lived is that we've figured out a way to optimize your health in a very substantial way. In the past, someone who was my age, I'm 57, someone who was my age, your body's probably broken. You know, your body is probably like beaten down, your hormones are dead, you know, you're probably like real tired all the time. You know, and I'm not, you know, and because of vitamins and hormones and all the different things that I do to keep my body healthy and exercise and we're living in a different time and because of that, you stay vital, you have vitality lot, much longer than anyone ever did before. So you can explore things and, and, and you have more curiosity and energy for thought

• 2:32:41Joe Rogan?

  more than anybody ever has before.

• 2:32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, with the, wow.

• 2:32:48Joe Rogan?

  You all right?

• 2:32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. You do CPR?

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 2:32:52Speaker 01

  Good.

• 2:32:53Joe Rogan?

  One of those guys out there knows how to do it.

• 2:32:55Speaker 01

  He does it?

• 2:32:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Jamie's real good. Jamie practices every night with different dudes.

• 2:32:59Speaker 01

  He does, yeah, I can imagine.

• 2:33:02Speaker 01

  No, uh, one of the greatest fallacies is that as we age, we don't need to do anything to reinvigorate our body.

• 2:33:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:33:11Speaker 01

  Supplements are very important. Hormones are key.

• 2:33:15Joe Rogan?

  Exercise.

• 2:33:16Speaker 01

  Exercise is important because of, as I said about the brain derived neurotrophic factor, you can increase it to improve brain. This guy out of USC, Caleb Finch, Finch, Caleb Finch, who talked about,

• 2:33:31Speaker 01

  he believed that the reason for why we age and we die is because we lose our hormones in our brain. And therefore extremely important, or is Scotch, yeah, there it is.

• 2:33:43Joe Rogan?

  That's what you need, more of that.

• 2:33:45Speaker 01

  No, I need to clear the throat. Yeah, look at that. I got my voice back. Yeah. So, in, as you said, you're 57 years of age. I'm 72 years of age. And I think the reason why I'm at 72 with the level of clarity and functionality, aside from my back, is the fact that I've always, 30 years I've been a hormone replacement, nutrients, cedicals, getting in good vitamins, so forth. Because our body loses it over the course of time. And you need to keep replacing it. And the people who are listening to this have to, might understand that you need to supplement. You need to be proactive on your quality of health, otherwise you start losing it.

• 2:34:25Joe Rogan?

  And exercise, not just for that, but also just to maintain your physical presence, your strength, your bone density.

• 2:34:31Speaker 01

  You know, at my age, people say, I still have my pecs, I still have my, you know, trimminess and fitness. I don't know about general energy.

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you still do martial arts anymore?

• 2:34:42Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I stopped doing the martial arts. What I do in place of martial arts is I dig holes.

• 2:34:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we talked about that before.

• 2:34:48Speaker 01

  And put plants in. Not the other holes.

• 2:34:51Joe Rogan?

  Digging holes is hard work.

• 2:34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. I remember one time you sent me an email, said, so be careful, because I was using a big pike to cut holes in the ground. But I end up with lemons and I make limoncello, pomegranates, make pomegranate wine and so forth.

• 2:35:08Joe Rogan?

  I was sensing a trend here.

• 2:35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I sent you some kumquats. Did you ever get the kumquats, I said?

• 2:35:14Joe Rogan?

  I did, thank you.

• 2:35:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you eat them?

• 2:35:15Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I did. Thank you.

• 2:35:16Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah. High in vitamin C, a lot of-

• 2:35:18Joe Rogan?

  Kumquats are really good for you.

• 2:35:20Speaker 01

  Awesome, awesome.

• 2:35:21Joe Rogan?

  Much more high in vitamin C, apparently, than even oranges.

• 2:35:24Speaker 01

  Oranges, right. Every morning I have three of them.

• 2:35:26Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 2:35:27Speaker 01

  Three of them, and it's great.

• 2:35:28Joe Rogan?

  Do you take liposomal vitamin C as well?

• 2:35:30Speaker 01

  Uh, I take liposomal, I take liposomal vitamin C.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  C, yeah. Yeah, I take that stuff, too.

• 2:35:41Joe Rogan?

  That's such a great thing too if you're sick is a high dose intravenous vitamin C. It's a big one.

• 2:35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah IVs.

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I had a skeptical friend of mine who dismisses all kinds of quackery. He was real sick with the flu. He couldn't get over it for weeks and I I told him, listen, man. I'm gonna hook you up, do this, get IV zinc and vitamin C and high dose vitamin C and B12 and he was better immediately. He said 24 hours later, he goes, couldn't kick this fucking flu. He said, I had it for two weeks.

• 2:36:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. In 23 years, I've been sick 16 days.

• 2:36:17Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:36:18Speaker 01

  That's, that's it. I never got, well, let me be honest. I got COVID for 12 hours.

• 2:36:25Joe Rogan?

  12 hours?

• 2:36:26Speaker 01

  12 hours. Tested twice, positive for COVID. That was a Wednesday. Um, let's see, it was a Wednesday. I think we were having Yom Kippur. No, we were having Pesach, Pesach, Passover. And I got sick that night and uh, 24 hours later, no symptoms.

• 2:36:43Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:36:44Speaker 01

  Nothing. Corsetin, zinc, a little ivermectin, you know.

• 2:36:49Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. You shouldn't talk about that publicly.

• 2:36:51Speaker 01

  No, I shouldn't.

• 2:36:51Joe Rogan?

  Ivermectin.

• 2:36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, ivermectin, horrible shit.

• 2:36:54Joe Rogan?

  It's weird that you can talk about it now.

• 2:36:55Speaker 01

  Oh, good.

• 2:36:56Joe Rogan?

  Now, uh, you know, fucking people are taking it.

• 2:36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I think I sent you the ivermectin paper with ivermectin and fimbendazole.

• 2:37:03Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:37:04Speaker 01

  I have a 76 year old veteran who was diagnosed with a Gleason 7, you know, Gleason is a grade of cancer of the prostate. And it was Gleason 7. He went on 12 milligrams of ivermectin every day for eight weeks. And at 12 weeks, he got a PET scan done, a special PET scan done, looking at um, abnormalities in the prostate. They couldn't find anything.

• 2:37:27Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:37:28Speaker 01

  And his PSA, Prostatic Specific Engine, when he came, when his initial one with the cancer was 12.6, he's now at 5.3.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  Is that your phone?

• 2:37:38Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:37:41Speaker 01

  What does this cellphone sound like?

• 2:37:43Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like that.

• 2:37:44Speaker 01

  It does?

• 2:37:44Joe Rogan?

  What do you think about all the people that are very, yeah, you had a Samsung phone. It's definitely yours.

• 2:37:49Speaker 01

  Significant.

• 2:37:49Joe Rogan?

  Is that a Google phone or Samsung phone?

• 2:37:51Speaker 01

  Google.

• 2:37:52Joe Rogan?

  Google, you like that?

• 2:37:53Speaker 01

  Let me shut that. Yeah, I like it. They keep on trying to get me out of the first grade, first generation into the seventh, until it dies.

• 2:38:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah?

• 2:38:01Speaker 01

  I use it, yeah.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  Ride or die, huh?

• 2:38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't like the software they put in there.

• 2:38:06Joe Rogan?

  Google just gave me the new Pixel 9 XL Pro. It looks sick. And then they gave me the Pixel Fold. It was like a gift when I went to the inauguration thing. Yeah, it's pretty sick.

• 2:38:16Speaker 01

  Oh, you were there at the?

• 2:38:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wouldn't, the Fold seems crazy. I'm addicted enough to watching YouTube videos on a regular phone. I don't need a fucking tablet that I take. Have you seen what Huawei's made?

• 2:38:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:38:26Joe Rogan?

  Huawei, they're banned in America because they're too awesome, and also they spy on you. But Huawei has developed a three-fold, and apparently Samsung's gonna come out with one next year.

• 2:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but two-fold.

• 2:38:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a three-fold, though. It literally comes out to like a 10-inch tablet. It's cra- and it's very thin.

• 2:38:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:38:43Joe Rogan?

  Look at this.

• 2:38:44Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I saw.

• 2:38:45Joe Rogan?

  Look at that.

• 2:38:46Speaker 01

  I saw that.

• 2:38:47Joe Rogan?

  That's a three-fold.

• 2:38:48Speaker 01

  Two-fold, yeah.

• 2:38:49Joe Rogan?

  That's the Huawei three-fold.

• 2:38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:51Joe Rogan?

  And, super thin, amazing cameras. They, they were so advanced. I was trying to get a Porsche Design Huawei phone. They, they were working with, you know, Porsche Design makes a bunch of things. They make like watches and sunglasses. They don't just make cars. Like Porsche Design is like a separate entity of Porsche. And Porsche Design worked with Huawei to make like the ultimate cellphone. And I was ready to buy it because I'm a dork, you know, I'm really into technology.

• 2:39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, oh, that thing's crazy, let me get it. And I think it had 100-megapixel phone, camera on the phone, and this is a while ago, and a 500-milliamp, 5,000-milliamp battery, which was also crazy. But then they banned Huawei products in America. So you can't get that tri-fold.

• 2:39:34Speaker 01

  Backdoor right to the CCP.

• 2:39:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, allegedly, but isn't TikTok too? Like, isn't all these things, there's a lot of backdoors. There's a lot of data getting scooped up.

• 2:39:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, my cybersecurity people keep on telling me, don't use Zoom because it backdoors into the CCP.

• 2:39:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:39:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:52Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 2:39:52Speaker 01

  So I haven't used it, so I use Microsoft.

• 2:39:55Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck can you use?

• 2:39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't trust anybody anymore.

• 2:39:58Speaker 01

  No, I'm there with you, yeah.

• 2:40:00Joe Rogan?

  Scared of all of it.

• 2:40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:02Joe Rogan?

  But I think it's all inevitable, and I think, um, I think if you look at the, the, what's going on, like in terms of like, what's, what's the direction that technological progress moves us into? Well, it's a direction seems of more and more connectivity, which means less and less privacy. So we're gonna have to work that out because when quantum computers can crack all encoding, it's like any encryption that exists, quantum computing is gonna crack all that. So you're not gonna have real encryption anymore. So like, what happens with Bitcoin and digital currency? What happens with all that stuff? What happens with your bank account? Like, I don't know.

• 2:40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:37Joe Rogan?

  We're in weird times.

• 2:40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, one of the things that scared me was in the Wi-Fi, they now could go back and using AI, use the transmitted waveform to see who's in a room.

• 2:40:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:52Speaker 01

  You saw that?

• 2:40:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Accurate, 3D representations of the people moving around.

• 2:40:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I turned off all my Wi-Fi extenders.

• 2:41:00Joe Rogan?

  It's also crazy. It's just like we're, we're living in an ultra surveilled world, and I think the good news is that the new government is emphasizing privacy and freedom of speech. And the other government was emphasizing cracking down on what they called misinformation and disinformation and more control of what you say and do and where you go. And the way to get more control is more invasive technology, and that's what scares the shit out of me.

• 2:41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:25Joe Rogan?

  Is people. It's not necessarily the technology, it's people taking advantage of the technology in order to have more control of the population, which makes their job easier.

• 2:41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the reason why I only use my cellphone when I travel. Otherwise, I don't use it. People call me, say, where are you? So I use my cellphone.

• 2:41:45Joe Rogan?

  Good for you.

• 2:41:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's off all the time.

• 2:41:47Joe Rogan?

  My, uh, friend Adam Curry, he has, he's a super paranoid. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe not paranoid, maybe super aware of like digital surveillance and all that stuff. So he has a de-Googled phone. He has a phone that doesn't have Google on it, and it's, uh, what are those, uh, what's that operating system that they use for that stuff? Do you remember, Jamie?

• 2:42:08Speaker 01

  Doesn't your friend Musk have a phone that's coming up?

• 2:42:10Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:42:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:42:11Joe Rogan?

  I just asked him the other day.

• 2:42:13Speaker 01

  He said, no.

• 2:42:13Joe Rogan?

  We were talking the other day at the inauguration. I was saying, dude, every other day I get an article about a Tesla phone. He was laughing. He goes, I hope we don't have to make a phone. This is what he said. I hope we don't have to make a phone. It's very difficult to make a phone.

• 2:42:25Speaker 01

  But whoever's promoting it.

• 2:42:27Joe Rogan?

  That's it. Graphene OS. So graphene is de-googled phone. So they take these pixels and they de-googled them and they put this graphene OS, which is a completely different operating system.

• 2:42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:41Joe Rogan?

  And then you have another phone called the unplugged phone that uh...

• 2:42:46Speaker 01

  Pixel 7.

• 2:42:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:48Joe Rogan?

  That's it. And so they use these things and they work just like a regular phone. And you can get them where they don't have 5G because some people think 5G is bad for it.

• 2:42:55Speaker 01

  No, I still work off of 3 and 4 and I don't update the software because updating the software gives them more access to you.

• 2:43:03Joe Rogan?

  Dun dun dun.

• 2:43:05Speaker 01

  I gotta go again.

• 2:43:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's just wrap it up. We're at 4 o'clock.

• 2:43:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:43:09Joe Rogan?

  Mark Gordon, I love you to death. You're an awesome guy. I appreciate you very much.

• 2:43:13Speaker 01

  Thank you, my friend.

• 2:43:13Joe Rogan?

  It's always good to see you. Um, thank you for all your research and all the work you do and spreading information and knowledge. I really appreciate it.

• 2:43:20Speaker 01

  I appreciate the fact that you've supported me over all these years in the work that we do with our veterans. And they've been receiving the benefits of the work that we've done and, you know, stopping the suicide is the goal for the Millennium Health Centers. That's, that's it.

• 2:43:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and tell everybody the website so they can find it.

• 2:43:39Speaker 01

  Uh, the educational one is uh, www.tbi-helpnow.

• 2:43:43Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you have to say www anymore.

• 2:43:45Speaker 01

  I don't have to say? How about W cubed?

• 2:43:46Joe Rogan?

  You can just type in the, the...

• 2:43:48Speaker 01

  TBI Help Now.

• 2:43:50Joe Rogan?

  TBI Help Now.

• 2:43:51Speaker 01

  Helpnow.org.

• 2:43:52Joe Rogan?

  Dot org. And then is Warrior Angel Foundation still?

• 2:43:56Speaker 01

  Warrior Angels Foundation's there, but they've melded into, um, yeah, this is uh...

• 2:44:02Joe Rogan?

  Improve brain health by fixing the root causes.

• 2:44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is Biohack Yourself and I'll give a minute on it. A family called Lolly Group, and if you were in uh, Washington for the, um, for the inauguration, the Biohack uh, Group, which is the Lolly Group, which is um, Anthony and Teresa Lolly, they're the ones who put together Biohack Yourself, which has been picked up by uh, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as being their representative for media because they're, he trusts them. Because all they want to do is get the science out there that's real, not the bullshit that's been thrown at us. So they've been pulled in and there were 32 of us, quote, "experts" is what they call us, who participated in this program. So...

• 2:44:49Speaker 01

  What they're doing is really cool because it's presenting the, the science behind what you've already experienced with us and what I continue to promote for brain health, for wellbeing and longevity, anti-aging.

• 2:45:05Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful.

• 2:45:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  All right.

• 2:45:06Speaker 01

  All right.

• 2:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Thanks, sir. Appreciate you.

• 2:45:08Speaker 01

  Always appreciate it.

• 2:45:08Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:45:09Speaker 01

  Thank you, my friend.

• 2:45:10Joe Rogan?

  Always good to see you. Goodbye, everybody.