KHC 200 - Kyle Cokinos

Kyle Cokinos - devoted husband, father of three, and business owner who constantly pushes the limits of human endurance. A lifelong Texan outdoorsman raised fishing the Gulf Coast and hunting greenheads in flooded timber, he has competed in four straight HYROX World Championships (2022–2025), multiple 100-mile races, and an Ironman under 10 hours. He even set a Guinness World Record by covering nearly 94 miles on foot in 24 hours while playing the most golf holes ever. Follow Kyle: https://www.instagram.com/kidcoki/ Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Stacking Days and Haters on Social Media 00:09:27 – Full Time Dad, Business Owner, Fitness, & HYROX 00:14:21 – Mental Game Strength: Embracing Suffering 00:33:52 – Upcoming 100K Race Goals 00:36:29 – Training in Colorado & Elevation Work 00:45:39 – Ultra Races: Dipping Deep & the Mental Edge That’s Needed 00:49:22 – Brody Chisholm and Coach Smulders 00:51:49 – If Runners Competed in HYROX 00:53:41 – Marco Langon’s Hard Work & Character 00:56:43 – Upcoming Ironman Races 00:59:08 – F**k, Marry, Kill: Golf, Being Jacked, Being Fast 01:10:06 – How Faith Drives Performance 01:10:06 – Positivity During Painful Situations 01:17:43 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code CAM for 20% off & Free Shipping Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Cameron Hanes?

  I've been shooting Hoyt for over 20 years now, and they're a lifetime partner of mine. That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves, and Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90-pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers. Why? Because I want a hard-hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say, a rib or the edge of a shoulder blade. Because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect, but when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow,

• 0:42Cameron Hanes?

  and a 90-pound bow gives me more room for error. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows, but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code CAM for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering. I use Ketone IQ when I need to stay sharp for the long haul. Long runs, lifting, before I shoot my bow, even when I'm podcasting, anytime I want steady focus without crashing. What I like about it is how it feels. It helps me stay locked in during long efforts

• 1:25Cameron Hanes?

  and mentally demanding sessions. Not jittery, not wired, just clear and steady. Ketones are your brain's preferred fuel source, so instead of that spiked caffeine feeling, the focus feels calm and controlled. It lets me push without leaning on caffeine or sugar. I'm not chasing another cup of coffee or something sweet just to get through a workout or a long day. I can train, work, and think without that roller coaster of energy. Physically, I feel ready to go. Mentally, I'm locked in. That combination matters when you're putting in long hours and real work. Visit ketone.com backslash CAM for 30% off your subscription order,

• 2:08Cameron Hanes?

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• 2:34Cameron Hanes?

  What is your Instagram thing?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Kid Koki.

• 2:37Cameron Hanes?

  Kid Koki, yeah, cuz yeah, I never know anybody's actual name cuz I'm always like looking at the Instagram thing. But I do know Kyle Cocodona?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, Cokinos. Cocano, I would like Cocodona, actually.

• 2:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I knew it wasn't that, but Kyle Cokinos, okay, so, um, and Kid Koki, right? And then stacking days.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Stacking days.

• 3:02Cameron Hanes?

  So what's stacking days? That's like, is that like Keep Hammering'?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  It is like Keep Hammering', it's like a JV version of Keep Hammering'.

• 3:08Cameron Hanes?

  Well, it's better than James. James is like, if it would be like, uh, 8th grade girls, B-team. So at least you're JV boys.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  That's right, we're a level up. Uh, yeah, just started. I mean, I didn't invent the term, obviously. But it just was something I was saying on YouTube.

• 3:26Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  The consistency over time, building the reps, it's just like Keep Hammering'. Just over time, despite your circumstance, whether it's a 20-minute day, or you got a full session, or whatever it is, if it's training, your faith, your work, whatever it is, family, just stacking consistency over time builds into something great. You're stacking days. So I just kept saying it and people were like, "I want a hat." "Make a hat." And so, it's just kinda naturally turned into this thing, which is cool.

• 3:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I like it. I mean, but it's a good reminder, too, that, yeah, it just, it's not gonna take five minutes.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:02Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you mentioned 20-minute workout, but usually it's gonna take multiple days, stacking days, putting in work. I didn't do much research, but you have a podcast.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have like a little, a little one. It's just kinda like my 15 to 20 minutes at a time.

• 4:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Where I just kinda talk about my mental game of training for ultra marathons and being a dad, fitting in fitness in there, running a business, being a business owner. And my faith and just, just trying to navigate that is really tough. So I just like to kind of just write my stuff out for the week and journal them and then just kind of consolidate it into something I kind of share as like a recap of my notes. And so I'll just hit record on something like this and just, just kind of riff. So just yeah.

• 4:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, freestyle. I like it. It's a, I listened to a few yesterday. So yeah, big on faith. I love that. Had the Tony Robbins thing in there. I caught that. But I think, I think where I first, I'm sure I'd seen your stuff because if you're in the algorithm, you can't help but see it.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. Once you touch it, it just keeps coming.

• 5:08Cameron Hanes?

  But then there was one, was it where you're getting hate because you're running with your kids with no shirt on or something? Is that what I first noticed, I think?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 5:16Cameron Hanes?

  So what was that about?

• 5:17Speaker 01

  So I was called a performative male for, I've got three daughters. They're two, one and six months old. And I found a triple stroller on eBay.

• 5:29Cameron Hanes?

  Stacking more than days, stacking babies.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Stacking babies. And I found this triple stroller. They don't make them anymore. Everyone keeps asking about that. But I take them on runs in Texas and it's, I mean, it's like 95, 100 degrees out there. And so I was telling James on the way here, like, the people that hate, like, you try and come out here and wear a shirt on like an eight or 10 mile run.

• 5:48Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  No chance.

• 5:50Cameron Hanes?

  Brutal.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  And so people call me a performative male, or is he gross? Or he's basically naked in front of his children? What is he doing?

• 5:56Cameron Hanes?

  People are so weird.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's, and you know, I was joking, like, just wipe the cheeto dust off your bellies and get moving. Don't worry about me.

• 6:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I mean, it's like, if they're criticizing how you look or you're acting in front of your kids, could you imagine seeing the people that make those comments?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 6:13Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, come on.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Exactly. You click on their profile, you're like, it says enough. I don't need to worry about them.

• 6:18Cameron Hanes?

  You know, to me, it's like, our job as a dad and man is to be the example. And you are be, you are the example. You're showing what hard work, what responsibility, what raising kids, you know? Focus on your fitness, you know, you talk about your faith is just like, if you're not the example, then who the hell is?

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:41Cameron Hanes?

  Jesus, but aside from that, I think you're doing a pretty good job. You know what I mean?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  I appreciate it.

• 6:46Cameron Hanes?

  And people are criticizing, I don't even, it's just weird. But anyway, I know, I think it was because it's so weird is why I noticed it. And then I read it, then I was like, okay, this guy's kind of cool.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And it's more of a reflection on them. I mean, I hope one day they come around. I, you know, it's all love, whatever. It's just a season of their life where they're hating on it. But

• 7:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  The other one was when I did that video with my wife, she was delivering our third.

• 7:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  I said I had to get on that threshold run.

• 7:15Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, God, that's right. That was you too.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:18Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I, I remember that. That was actually good acting because I think you're sitting there and you're like talking to her like, hey, so what do you think about something? Yeah. Okay. I didn't even put the, the, the connect the dots that that was you also.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Same one. And I got a lot of hate for that one, too. A lot of people were like, what a prick.

• 7:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Like not knowing that we had two children, like my wife is an angel and she plays along with that kind of stuff. Well.

• 7:43Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just a joke, just having a little fun. That's it.

• 7:46Cameron Hanes?

  I thought it was if, see if people knew my history, they would know that I had my wife with our daughter, I was supposed to go on a hunt coming up and it's right at the due date. So it's just like, I was like, hey, what do you think about, could we induce this thing, get this thing going? And so Taryn was born and I took off that day.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:10Cameron Hanes?

  So it's like.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  No kidding.

• 8:12Cameron Hanes?

  So I'm, maybe in some ways I'm looking for people to be like, okay, I could, yeah, we're on the same page. Yeah. Making me feel a little better, but yeah, I thought that was funny.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:23Cameron Hanes?

  That was hilarious.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  It's funny because your mind works like mine. Like I, we're just like, like systems oriented, like, okay, let's have the baby and that's cool. And like, we can, we can move on to the next thing. That's not a, I even, our first daughter, when she was born.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Cass, I went to Ironman Copenhagen.

• 8:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  And I remember I was on the bike and I was like, what am I doing? This baby's doing like five days. And I was, I was having such a bad race. I was texting my wife like, how are you doing? How are you feeling? I wanted to drop out so bad. Yeah, I, I, I was, there was a cameraman there. I was asking him like, is she, is she going in the river? I'd love to pull out.

• 9:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  But, uh, yeah, it's funny how we try and intertwine like these endurance feats with like the family and you get these kind of funny stories and moments.

• 9:10Cameron Hanes?

  And then you get like, what I would do is I'd get halfway, just like you in that race, halfway into one, and then you start, am I doing the right thing? Or you pass something up and then you're mad that you passed it up because you're like doing what you should be doing as a father.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:24Cameron Hanes?

  And so it's always this balance.

• 9:27Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, so tell me like, I guess we've talked a little bit just about like a few random things, but what are you about? Like, what's your, what's your, what's your thing? I saw you have a pretty good following on Instagram. So what do you do?

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, this didn't all start till like probably a year ago. You know, I'm born and raised in Texas. I've got two amazing parents that raised six of us. I'm the oldest of six. And we're all about top to bottom, eight years apart. Grew up in a great home, the only home. And, you know, we all were tough love, like make fun of each other. And it was, it was a healthy kind of love, all really a funny family. And so, um, grown out of that, still live in Texas. I got three daughters of my own. I run a business, um, we're in the bond world. We do surety bonds for contractors, oil and gas companies. Started that three years ago. But I kind of found fitness during COVID. Like got really serious about it. And it was, I was telling James at breakfast, I just, just wanted to do the Murph workout. I just wanted to get really good with the Murph workout.

• 10:25Cameron Hanes?

  Were you in shape at all?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Not really. I was a high school golfer.

• 10:29Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Like I had a little bit of a swimming background.

• 10:31Cameron Hanes?

  No wonder you guys get along.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. He told me he's a stick. He's like a scratch golfer.

• 10:35Cameron Hanes?

  No, it was volleyball, right? Once you volleyball state champion?

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, volleyball and speech and debate.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  That's right. Chameleon.

• 10:45Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah, so golf, huh?

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got really dedicated with golf and I got, I mean, I put 10,000 hours in the game, you could say, just serious about it. And, um, but, but, you know, I kind of moved on, went to college and didn't play and then, but yeah, my, my training really started trying to get ready for Murph and then I signed up for a high rocks race with my brother and then I was like, I need to get faster. I need to stop pushing the weight so much. So this has been this balance of like strength and

• 11:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Getting faster. I mean, you know, it's

• 11:15Cameron Hanes?

  It's a tough one.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Vanity and speed.

• 11:17Cameron Hanes?

  It's a tough one. Yeah. Like, that's how me and Truitt always were. We're always like, yeah, we could be better runners, but do we want to look like that?

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:25Cameron Hanes?

  And then, like, what it takes is like, well, you don't have to, but you're not going to be the best runner you can be carrying extra muscle, carrying extra pounds. So now, now we're like trying to get as skinny as possible. But yeah, it's weird how that, you know, we battle with ourselves about image and appearance and still want to, you want to do it all. It's like, that's where the hybrid thing comes out. You want to be strong and fast. And what I joked around or have joked on here before, that when you say you're hybrid, it means you're not really a good runner and you're not really strong.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:56Cameron Hanes?

  You're kind of half ass at both.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 11:58Cameron Hanes?

  But that's, that's a joke because like Nick Bear, he is fast and huge.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That was the joke. You're like, you're stronger than the runners and faster than the lifters. I mean, but I, my buddy Hunter McIntyre, he'd love to meet.

• 12:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he's a beast.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  He is a beast.

• 12:12Cameron Hanes?

  God dang.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Back from world championships and he's got the whole world of high rocks waiting for him to no rep and all that. But he's, I would say Hunter's grown that sport tremendously.

• 12:21Cameron Hanes?

  What's in, what do you mean no rep?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, like he got penalized for maybe his burpee when he got up, his feet placed like it's 30 centimeters. And I think he was, you know, it's, there's a gray area, but he's got a million eyes on him and no eyes on the guy behind. But, but something he says, going back to the whole strength and endurance thing is there's nothing sexier than a champion. And so top of the podium, you know, regardless of how that looks, like being fully committed, bought in is, and there's nothing better looking than that.

• 12:50Cameron Hanes?

  No. I don't care. You'd be the skinniest guy ever if you're the champion.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:55Cameron Hanes?

  It worked.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 12:57Cameron Hanes?

  Nothing but respect.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he battles that same thing. I mean, I think everyone, a lot of people in high rocks are a little lighter than him, so.

• 13:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he's, he's kind of a, but he's a good runner for his size, for sure.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Oh, he floats.

• 13:09Cameron Hanes?

  So who won that? Was that Eric?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Um, so Dylan Scott did.

• 13:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, Dylan Scott did.

• 13:15Cameron Hanes?

  What did Eric Hein-

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Oh, so Eric won the forty-five, uh, forty-nine year old.

• 13:20Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I got you, okay.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  He ran a fast time like an, like an hour one, which is great.

• 13:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cuz what's like elite nowadays? Is it low fifties?

• 13:27Speaker 01

  No, uh, that's very elite. Yeah, anything under sixty is really good.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  I think the winning time in, in Worlds this year, Dylan's time was like fifty-four minutes.

• 13:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  So, uh, but super pumped for Dylan. Like, he's, he's been one of the early on pioneers of like, I'm sticking to high rocks. I've told him, you, you'd probably be a better triathlete.

• 13:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  He stuck to that, but he's like, no, bought in with high rocks and-

• 13:51Cameron Hanes?

  So you've done high rocks too. So what, what are you best at?

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question.

• 13:57Cameron Hanes?

  World record golf, hundred miles?

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, the most obscure things ever. Um, I don't really know. I think I'm still trying to figure that out. Like, I think I'm a, I'm a good runner. I'm a strong guy. I, I think, um, my mental game, my mental preparedness is like growing tremendously. I think one of the things is I got to be a really good high school golfer is I never worked on the mental game. And now I'm in this season of life where I'm out doing long training runs and I'm really invested like in my thoughts and how I'm talking to myself and how I'm gassing myself up for a, a hundred mile race like this Wyoming range, um, coming in August, like really just working on the mental game and just kind of bringing back that inner child of Kyle. So I think, I think my mental game has become my strong suit, honestly, something that I just completely neglected.

• 14:43Cameron Hanes?

  How, and so where do, tell me, um, give me an example of where you say your mental game is, is at, at the highest level?

• 14:53Speaker 01

  I think just my ability to like bring myself back into the present moment. Like, I can have things go wrong. I'm never gonna be the fastest guy and I know that.

• 15:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  But like people will call it gritty. Like I can just find my way to the finish. I can find my way to like, I haven't won anything yet. I'll say that I finished second and third in a lot of things.

• 15:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Um, and I've run, you know, I've broken 10 hours in an Ironman when I'm not really the guy that like should do that. I haven't been in this thing that long, but I'm just able to just kind of pull into that cookie jar of all that hard training and that work and give myself, I hate to say positive affirmation, but just really just be process driven and not be so attached to like, you have to win, but be able to just be present in the moment and not be so obsessed with the outcome, not be so emotional with the outcome. And like I, I'm really getting, I'm, I'm never going to perfect it, but I'm getting closer and closer to that.

• 15:50Cameron Hanes?

  What of, um, like what's your best discipline of the running, lifting or one, running, biking, swimming?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  I think swimming.

• 16:00Cameron Hanes?

  Swimming?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  I think swimming.

• 16:01Cameron Hanes?

  Is your best?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  I put no work towards it. I just do it on race day.

• 16:04Cameron Hanes?

  And, and that's the, probably the least important of the three, right?

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:09Cameron Hanes?

  For time.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:10Cameron Hanes?

  Cause it's like you're in there the shortest of the others.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 16:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I think in California, it's, it's, it's a down current swim, but I was like at 54 minutes or something that's fast. But the biking, I have to give a lot of work and the running, I really have to get a lot of work. I think my dad.

• 16:24Cameron Hanes?

  What's your marathon?

• 16:25Speaker 01

  I haven't run a solo marathon yet.

• 16:28Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I've just run a hundred milers and marathons within Ironmans.

• 16:31Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. So you don't really know.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  No, I think in, in Ironman, I think I did three 38 in California.

• 16:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  That was after the swim and the bike, obviously.

• 16:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Um, I think I would break three hours for sure right now, but it's tough to call.

• 16:45Cameron Hanes?

  What is that a 650?

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 16:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:49Cameron Hanes?

  Could do that. You can do that 650.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I think we got that.

• 16:51Cameron Hanes?

  Did I see you on Piscata today?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  I did.

• 16:53Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Did a couple loops.

• 16:54Cameron Hanes?

  Did you?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Couple loops.

• 16:55Cameron Hanes?

  How was it?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  I loved it.

• 16:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I mean, I like, I, I got in my Uber and I was like, I could run out here for 24 hours.

• 17:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  I think it takes James that too.

• 17:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  It, cause we don't have that in Texas really. It's pretty flat.

• 17:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  So I spend about 50% of my mental capacity trying to figure out how I can get vert.

• 17:13Cameron Hanes?

  I understand. Well, and then also the heat because like Truitt's he he's in Utah now. So he's been getting up like at four, four thirty because I want to talk to you about your training and like where you said the mental thing because on those reps by yourself, that is mental. And like Truitt gets, he gets up early because if it's hot and he's trying to get his workout in, he's not getting the speed because his heart rate's too high because of the heat. So he he gets up early when it's cool so he can get those times that he needs because to for him to get the, you know, the Olympic trials qualifier, hopefully if he gets it, um, he has to develop that speed. Right.

• 17:54Cameron Hanes?

  And like when we talk about, uh, the mental strength part, it's, and I was just with another, you know, phenomenal, um, track athlete and they they have these, you know, there's all this stimulus. So you do these different four hundreds, two hundreds, mile repeats, uh, K repeats, um, five K repeats, and it's all different stimulus to develop something, something else that that for the big picture you need. But what I always am curious about is when you're by yourself, um, and you know, you're supposed to hit this time or this effort, nobody really knows if

• 18:34Cameron Hanes?

  you're giving your full effort, but you, you're the only person who knows. And we always, we go through, especially if there's a crowd, we act, we'd have put on a performance like we're hurting, like big, like this. Is that real? Because I've been around sports enough to know it's not always real. I mean, I've did a lot, I did a lot of spin classes over here at the gym, just to, you know, turn it is back when you had to, I don't know if you still do it, but you turn the resistance up. And I'm like looking, I'm like, did you really turn that or are you acting like that? Yeah. You know what I mean? So we can't lie to ourselves. That's the point. So when you said, when you say you're really embracing the suffering.

• 19:16Cameron Hanes?

  Tell me what that means like, because I know sometimes I'll run the mountain like you. And some days it'll be like, if I can get up there in 17, that's a good effort.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  That's a great time.

• 19:28Cameron Hanes?

  But did that, did I have more? Yeah. Why didn't I give it?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Such a good point. And you can only discover that, like, you can be pushed by buddies and stuff like that. And there's a lot of adrenaline that pumps through you, but you learn a lot.

• 19:43Cameron Hanes?

  That's ego, usually like you want, you want to beat your buddy.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and ego can be healthy to an extent, but it can't be your purpose. Like, you can't let it, your purpose be so wrapped and intertwined with ego, but it can push you.

• 19:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  You can still be that guy.

• 19:57Cameron Hanes?

  I can want to beat that guy, and if he makes me push harder than I would have by myself, perfect.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's why we do these things, right? We sign up for these races because we like to compete. We like where it brings us and the results of, of pushing ourselves and our limits further. But, I mean, and then you have this other side of you where you like to hunt and you like to be outdoors. And I like to duck hunt and you just completely kind of detach. And I'm like, you might subconsciously kind of go through, you know, who is Cam? Who is Kyle? Why do I do this and my purpose? But when you're alone like that, you're developing that, I think, you're developing that mental strength. And I don't train with anyone. I mean, I'm, I'm alone at 4:00 AM, just like you're saying, true it does. Because that's the only time I have. Once it's 7:30, all three of my girls are up and it's the work day. But I use that to my advantage. I have a lot of people that reach out and they say, man, how do you get the training in?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  I'm like, we're in construction and I don't have time for that, but I want to do 100 mile or something. I'm like, why don't you flip the script a little bit and, and think positively here? How many steps are you getting in a day? Like, you're probably getting 30,000, 20,000 steps in a day. You're in boots, your feet are strong, you're, you're on them all day and you're building mental tenacity, which like, once you develop the fitness and stuff, how much of the ultra endurance stuff is mental?

• 21:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, most of it.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  You ever felt that feeling where like you don't need a pacer and you just need to go?

• 21:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  And you just kind of need to be on your own? I mean, I think that's, that's a clear indication that you're mentally tough. You're, you're building that mental toughness, so.

• 21:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I do think, and if you can get to the place where you can push yourself to suffer by yourself, then in competition, man, you know, you're going to, going to be able to go even harder.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:39Cameron Hanes?

  Because you want to beat the guy next to you, right? And so I just don't think people. I think it's rare for people to push hard enough by themselves. I think that's really hard.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  It is.

• 21:52Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's really hard to do that. Um, but if you can, it's a superpower.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:57Cameron Hanes?

  And like Truitt has that. He can actually suffer and it's not performative.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:03Cameron Hanes?

  It's real.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:04Cameron Hanes?

  And it's, to me, it, like I said, it's a superpower. Cause most people self, self-preservation, it protects us.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:15Cameron Hanes?

  So we can pretend like we gave all, an all out, or it's like, no, it's not good for us to go that hard.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:21Cameron Hanes?

  But in the race, we're gonna have to. So, um, yeah, I'm always just fascinated by training and, you know, cause we, we, me and Goggins talked about this a lot, a lot of times, especially with the family, you train when you, when you have time.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:35Cameron Hanes?

  And your schedule is like, when I was working, I couldn't steal from my family time. So I had to do it in the morning or at lunch at work when I wasn't gonna see my family anyway, or after they went to bed at night. So that meant, like, anytime people talk about sleep, I'd be like, sleep? I don't care about sleep.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  So popular right now.

• 22:58Cameron Hanes?

  And it's like, the, the point it now, but I couldn't care about sleep. To be honest, I didn't have time. I didn't have the luxury to care about sleep. I will say now, sleep is huge.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Right.

• 23:11Cameron Hanes?

  Sleep is like a PED. It's nuts. But when you don't, when you're raising a family, what are you supposed to do?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  You don't have an option.

• 23:19Cameron Hanes?

  Calling sick today to, to get sleep?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. You don't have the option.

• 23:22Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  And it's like, it, look at every-

• 23:24Cameron Hanes?

  So why think about it?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  And, and to get to the goal, like you don't see people actively getting the goal, like in the, in the prime of your grinding of, of building to who you are now, you weren't like calculated with sleep. You're calculated with training.

• 23:40Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Like you don't hear the best in their worlds, say, the best in their abilities say like, well, I just really prioritized my sleep.

• 23:48Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  I made sure I got eight to nine hours every, you don't really hear that. You hear like about the long sessions, like a Kobe Bryant.

• 23:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  You hear about these, the greats in their industry, you hear about them working hard and- Yeah, then you make time for sleep, but like the recovery, you have to work pretty hard to really be that concerned about recovery.

• 24:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, that's what I would, I would always say is like, people would talk about, oh, you're not getting enough sleep or they, they get whatever, eight hours. If you're off, if you're giving 30% of, of your ability, you don't need to worry about eight hours of sleep.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 24:24Cameron Hanes?

  Let's, let's ramp up what you're giving and then we can worry about sleep. Cause I'd be like, you guys are all worried about sleep. You're giving a half ass effort.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 24:33Cameron Hanes?

  I felt like I was giving a full effort and I still didn't care about sleep because I couldn't.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:37Cameron Hanes?

  I couldn't. I didn't have that luxury. Where I think about people, when I think especially because I talked to Olympians on here, for them, sleep is almost as important as the training, as the reps, because their body has to be at that highest level to get in the reps at the level the reps need to be at, to get to be the best in the world. So unless you're an Olympian, I don't want to hear about your sleeping.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Like a full-time athlete, like what Truitt's doing. I mean, truly like now that's part of your training plan. I think I heard Michael Phelps say like if his REM and his deep sleep were 20% or maybe he said each were 20% of his total sleep, he knew he could send it.

• 25:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  On that training day.

• 25:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  And so like, wow, he's that calculated with his sleep. Like that, that actually plays a major role. He's an Olympian. And so like, it's the same thing Truitt's doing. Like, yeah, you can call it lazy or whatever, but like, they need to be so calculated that he can get eight hours of sleep and go out that 4am session before the heat gets out and have the right amount of fueling, whatever it takes and, and operate at that speed for that session to get the most juice

• 25:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  out of that orange.

• 25:41Cameron Hanes?

  And I don't think that people understand when you don't have to, when you're up at four, on the track before the sun's up, trying to run like a 220 800. I don't think people understand how hard that is. Not just getting your ass out of bed whenever time that was to be at the track at that time, but to give that effort when everybody else is sleeping. To me, that was like, that gave me more inspiration or more like motivation because I'd be like, yeah, all you pussies are sleeping. Must be nice. I'm on the, I'm on the, or on the road. I wasn't on the track, but truth is on the track. To me, that was another feather in my cap.

• 26:24Cameron Hanes?

  Like, yeah, I'm, I'm also sacrificing more than you guys. So we can, we can trick ourselves into these things that like sacrifice more. Yeah, we're not getting the sleep we should, but if we have this mental edge because we, we've convinced ourselves, we want it more than everybody.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:41Cameron Hanes?

  That's a big deal.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's part of like this, if you either raise your actions to your desires or you lower your desires to your actions and like, I'm gonna choose raise the actions.

• 26:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  My sleep, it's, it's lower on the totem pole right now in my life. Not saying it's not important, it's just right now.

• 26:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. One of the hardest parts of hunting is glassing big country to find animals you know are there. That's why I run Sig Sauer Zulu Imaging Stabilizing Binoculars when I'm covering a lot of ground and need to see everything. These binos are a complete game changer. After long climbs, when your heart rate's up and your hands aren't steady, shaky glass makes it hard to stay locked in. With image stabilization, everything settles down. You can slow the process, really pick apart the country and catch movement you'd normally miss. I've found more animals and saved a ton of time because of these binos. I actually just talked about how impressive this technology is on the most recent episode of the Joe Rogan Experience.

• 27:43Cameron Hanes?

  Once you use stabilized glass, it's hard to go back. It gives you a real advantage when you're hunting big, open terrain. And here's the rare part. Optics companies almost never offer discounts, but Sig is giving listeners of this podcast 10% off. Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons, head to sigsauer.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos and use code CAM for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binoculars. See more, miss less, keep hammering.

• 28:19Cameron Hanes?

  Element was created by former research biochemist Rob Wolf and has enough sodium, potassium, and magnesium to move the needle and get you feeling and performing your best. Plus, it has zero sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients to derail your low carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink and trusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including Team USA Weightlifting, coaches, health practitioners, and teams across professional collegiate and high school sports leagues. You're also guaranteed to find an Element flavor you love. Try fan favorite citrus salt or raspberry salt, get spicy with mango chili, or mix chocolate

• 29:02Cameron Hanes?

  salt into your morning coffee for a mean moka. Element is offering listeners of the podcast a free Element sample pack with any purchase at www.drinklmnt.com/cam. Also, try new Element sparkling, a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. You know, a good example of that, I remember Jelly Roll on Truitt's birthday, we were hunting and Truitt, he was, he's had these big goals, you know, big, big, like lofty goals, right? And Jelly Roll has talked to him and he's having a couple not great marathons for him, you know, he wanted to be super fast and he's just like 230s, like just couldn't

• 29:47Cameron Hanes?

  break through. Well, Jelly Roll was saying, he's like, well, he goes, he goes, let me tell you, they, they gave me a, asked me a question, like if I want to play in arena, do I want to go for like a 2,000 to 4,000 seat arena, sell it out, you know, be able to put, sold out, Jelly Roll, sold out, or do we want to go for the 10,000 to 12,000, the next, next size up? And he's like, no, we want to go the next size up, even if it's not sold out, because sometimes we, we don't hit our goal, like selling out the big one, but we surpass what we would have with the safe bet, the 2,000 to 4,000. So, at 2,000 to 4,000, we'd only have 4,000 people in the seats. Going for the bigger one, you might

• 30:28Cameron Hanes?

  have 8, 9,000. That's better. It's not sold out, but so we, we just have to like, instead of taking the safe bet, sometimes go big. It's okay if we don't get it. We're further ahead than than we would have been.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:42Cameron Hanes?

  And we're we we have a chance of getting it at some time.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:47Cameron Hanes?

  As opposed to playing it safe. So I like that attitude.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  There's no such thing as failure.

• 30:52Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  It's like you either learn and adapt or like, hey, we nailed the goal.

• 30:55Cameron Hanes?

  For sure.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Learn and adapt.

• 30:56Cameron Hanes?

  But so many people and, you know, I think you've probably seen this, they take the safe bet.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:02Cameron Hanes?

  They they don't want, they want to make sure they're going to succeed.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 31:06Cameron Hanes?

  And it's just like, well, that's not the way to grow.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm sure you've had moments like that and I have, like where you set ceilings on yourself. But once you find yourself busting through it, it's like, oh, wait. Like, I remember when we were doing the golf world record, not to just harp on that. But like we were talking about, I was like, I think we can do 500 holes. Yeah. We can get 500 holes. And we ended up getting 810.

• 31:29Cameron Hanes?

  Eight hundred.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  And we ran about 100 miles and it's like 98 or it's tracked like 95.

• 31:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I was like, even right there, like I was so driven on this goal.

• 31:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  And I was like, advertising this is like, we can get over 500 or something. And even right there, I set a ceiling on myself.

• 31:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  So it's it's a constant work in progress. We just keep chipping away.

• 31:49Cameron Hanes?

  I think that's human nature because I think there's, nobody wants to fail. And we've conditioned ourselves to to think that if we don't get the goal, that's failing. But maybe it's not.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 32:03Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe that's just a mark along the way.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:06Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe it's just, you know, we have to know where we're at. And that told tells us where we're at is not a failure to your point, like either we're winning or learning.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's, I hate to be the guy that's throwing out quotes, but Inky Johnson, that football player, he says, how can I?

• 32:21Cameron Hanes?

  Love that guy.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Become, oh, he's the man.

• 32:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  He's powerful.

• 32:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Powerful dude. How can I, how can I fall in love with the process without being emotionally attached to the outcome?

• 32:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  And I just love that thought.

• 32:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, me too.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  It's a constant process. Soul life is.

• 32:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it just makes it hard. Like, when when I get injured, when I'm so used to getting in work every day, that's where I struggle. It's like right now, I'm like, my back is kind of messed up. And, you know, my only measure of success is like, did I get in work today?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:00Cameron Hanes?

  And so when you can't.

• 33:04Cameron Hanes?

  That's it's hard to feel like you did anything.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  This is good work, though. We're talking through the mental, we're talking through the mental game right now.

• 33:10Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I did the sauna cold plunge. I did whatever. So I can like trick myself into thinking that that was like positive. I talked to Truitt about training. I guess that's kind of a something positive, but yeah, it's it's hard like being in the performance realm. Cause it's like to feel like um you achieved anything, you have to perform.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 33:33Cameron Hanes?

  At a high level.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  It is.

• 33:34Cameron Hanes?

  And it's just like, that's, that's hard sometimes.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, especially when you let it, when you let it define you, like when you, when you get so wrapped up in like the result.

• 33:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  We just constantly have to like detach ourselves and just kind of be the observer, like, cool, we did it.

• 33:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Keep chipping away.

• 33:53Cameron Hanes?

  Um, so your, your goals now, so you got the hundred coming up. What's your goal for that hundred? Like, tell me about the course. Is it like a lot of climbing or what?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, about 20, I think it's almost 26,000 feet in gang, over 107 miles. It's point to point.

• 34:06Cameron Hanes?

  That's pretty good.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:07Cameron Hanes?

  26 is legit.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  It's a good one.

• 34:09Cameron Hanes?

  Anything over 20?

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:11Cameron Hanes?

  You're doing something.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  I, I would agree. I would agree. And like my whole north star through this is like eventually getting to hard rock. Like that's the big race I want to do. But yeah, it's, it's point to point. Um, great race, the Wyoming range 100. No music, no headphones. You gotta carry bear spray. And the coolest part about this race is they give you the buckle at the start line.

• 34:32Cameron Hanes?

  What?

• 34:33Speaker 01

  So you gotta hold on to the buckle the whole time.

• 34:35Cameron Hanes?

  And then give it back if you don't.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  If you don't finish, you give it back, which I love.

• 34:38Cameron Hanes?

  That's pretty sick. I hadn't heard that before.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool. So like I've, I've gone out there and I've actually practiced with an old 100 miler belt buckle.

• 34:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  And it's.

• 34:46Cameron Hanes?

  Learning it?

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of, it's a little annoying.

• 34:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  But uh, but yeah, it'll be a lot of climbing. Uh, you get, you get support at um, some of these aid stations they have to take like horse back into. Um, but you can pick up a pacer like mile forty two and it's, it's, it's a really cool, beautiful looking race.

• 35:05Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Do you have a goal time wise?

• 35:08Speaker 01

  The course record, I think is twenty six hours, which is really long.

• 35:12Cameron Hanes?

  It must be a tough race.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  I think it's pretty technical.

• 35:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  I'm setting my mind, cause I mean, I'm really familiar with hard rock, but I'm setting my mind to think it's gonna be really tough.

• 35:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, uh, that just tells me there's not a lot of easy miles, like the, a lot of times those races have like, you know, gravel road miles.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:29Cameron Hanes?

  And you can, you know, kinda, kinda get in a groove.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:33Cameron Hanes?

  When it's all single track and all technical.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:36Cameron Hanes?

  You're earning every mile.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:38Cameron Hanes?

  That sounds like what this is.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  It's probably not gonna look a lot like Pisgah.

• 35:41Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, no, not too much buffed out stuff, but I like honest hundreds like that.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 35:48Cameron Hanes?

  Because it's, some of these hundreds are turning into almost track meets. Like we got Western coming up next weekend. They'll be running pretty much all that.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Yeah. And like, and, and that's not like my style, like the fast paced pavement ones, probably not my style. Like I'm not gonna be the fastest guy. And I, and I kinda like being out there longer and I'm just a, I'm a mountain guy. Like I don't, I don't really wanna be on flatlands. I wanna be out amongst really cool people on the Colorado trails or in Wyoming and just see the mountains and like experience nature and be off the grid.

• 36:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  I love that feeling.

• 36:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  I, I, I, I just, I'm always gonna gravitate towards that in a hundred mile distance or anything longer.

• 36:29Cameron Hanes?

  Definitely. Um, like, so have you spent time in the Colorado mountains and stuff?

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:33Cameron Hanes?

  What, what have you done there?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Uh, so back in COVID, we got a house or family has like a small cabin in, in Uray, Colorado.

• 36:40Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  And that's where I first found out about.

• 36:41Cameron Hanes?

  There's a hundred there.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  I, oh, I'm going.

• 36:43Cameron Hanes?

  It's coming up.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  I'm going next week.

• 36:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  I'm volunteering.

• 36:47Cameron Hanes?

  Oh yeah, I know, uh, Jake is in that from Next Aid Station, I think.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he, I think he's running that.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah. Hard rock or?

• 36:55Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, no. Uray.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  You've got the Uray one hundred, which is, which is more a climb than.

• 36:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Than the hard rock.

• 37:00Cameron Hanes?

  He's been doing, he's been doing like tons of climb a day.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  It's so fun.

• 37:04Cameron Hanes?

  And he just did, uh, God, what was that 200 that just happened?

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, Tahoe.

• 37:10Cameron Hanes?

  Tahoe? Is that what he did?

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, Tahoe.

• 37:13Cameron Hanes?

  Tahoe, yeah. So, his leg should be good.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, well, I think that's the week after Hard Rock, if I'm not mistaken.

• 37:20Cameron Hanes?

  Is it? Okay.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's.

• 37:21Cameron Hanes?

  But Yuray is a good, anyway, so it's a cool place.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of climbing. It's the San Juans. It's like, in my opinion, the most beautiful mountain range.

• 37:29Cameron Hanes?

  So pretty.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I can't get enough of it. My sister lives up there in Yuray, but, and our house is actually at mile 50, right when they come into down Oak Street from Camp Bird. It's either, you know, they reverse it every year.

• 37:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  And so that's where I found out. I was like, what are these lean, beautiful, hardworking people doing going up and down this mountain with race bids? I gotta find out what this is.

• 37:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I found out of that. And so like, my dream is, you know, ultimately getting in the race, whether it's eight years down the road and, you know, stopping at mile 50 at our house, right there off the trail, and just being like with my girls and our family. And yeah, it'll, it'll happen, but I'm just gonna keep doing these things. But yeah, I've gotten a lot of good climbing. I think my biggest week so far is like 11,000 feet, but I'm about to ramp it up this, starting this week.

• 38:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. And where do you get your climbing in there?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  I mean, I'll get in the car. Like I did this on Thursday. I got in the car, I drove two and a half hours to Austin on the biggest hill I can find. It's like a quarter mile hill, and I'll literally just go up and down it for two and a half hours.

• 38:33Cameron Hanes?

  God, that's tough, dude.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  It is, but mental discipline.

• 38:36Cameron Hanes?

  It is. Now, if you can do it there, you can do it anywhere.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cuz you could say, oh, it'd be so easy on Piscata, must be nice.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, can I try this?

• 38:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, do it.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, like, cuz then when you get to the race, you're like.

• 38:48Cameron Hanes?

  You're gonna piss hot now if you do that.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Am I?

• 38:50Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know, probably. But no, I think it's, it's, it's good. You're right.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think when you get in the mountains, if you've done that kind of training, that monotonous, boring style of training, like, every time I've found, I get in a race, I'm like, this is awesome. It's so much easier to detach from how hard it is and just look up and be like, imagine that hill you used to climb for two and a half hours. It was the same view.

• 39:15Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  This is way better than that.

• 39:16Cameron Hanes?

  Way easier, yeah, that's true. Yeah, that, my, I don't know if James told you, but my brother has a race over on Piscata. It's as many summits as you can do in 12 hours.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 39:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  What's the record?

• 39:29Cameron Hanes?

  I think 19.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Nineteen, so nineteen summits.

• 39:36Cameron Hanes?

  Nineteen thousand feet and it'd be so three miles per trip. So it'd be forty and then twenty, so yeah, sixty seven.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Wow, that's impressive. Have you done it?

• 39:47Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, yeah, I mean, me and Courtney did fifteen. We, we just wanted to get fifty miles in. So we did like a different route and like a couple of different routes. But we did, uh, we did fifty miles and fifteen summits.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:59Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good day. Any, I mean, any day over ten thousand.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 40:06Cameron Hanes?

  I feel like it's a good day.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  I'm sitting here talking about getting that in a week and y'all got it today. So I need to, I need to get those numbers up.

• 40:12Cameron Hanes?

  Once you, but once you have been around this sport, there's people who it's crazy how much work they put in.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:21Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I think it's like, I think Jake who's doing that, you're right. I think this week he might be doing thirty thousand feet of gain.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Wow. And he's, is he here or is he in?

• 40:31Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, he's in Utah.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:33Cameron Hanes?

  Sorry. But so how it generally like the, the normal rule thumbs for getting ready for hundreds is hundred miles a week. And then if you can get, uh, generally people want to get like fifteen, maybe twenty thousand feet of gain.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:48Cameron Hanes?

  And what everybody's going by now is just time on your feet. So it's just those hours, like, are you, are you training for twenty hours a week? Some people can get, well, like if they're not, don't have a job, they're getting up over thirty to forty hours a week of training.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 41:04Cameron Hanes?

  And for people like us that had a family and, and a career, that's tough to compete with.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:11Cameron Hanes?

  I never had anything close to that. So I'm trying to compete with these people with doing a fraction of the work. So my body's not ready.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Cameron Hanes?

  But it's, you know, and that's the biggest thing. Cause now ultra is kind of taken into where it's more professionalized. For those people at the very top, it's really hard for guys with careers to be, it's almost like two different worlds. Because. You could never have 40 hours a week to train.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:38Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and Courtney, I know she'll go out, put some pizza in her backpack, go out for like eight hours a day.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  She's the best.

• 41:45Cameron Hanes?

  And

• 41:46Speaker 01

  She's awesome.

• 41:46Cameron Hanes?

  She's the best because she's got crazy talent. And she's the best because she'll sacrifice, but she's also the best because she has that time to do that.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 41:57Cameron Hanes?

  But if you, if you're not, if you don't have the motivation, time doesn't mean anything.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:02Cameron Hanes?

  So she's also motivated.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:04Cameron Hanes?

  Cause a lot of people have time and they don't train.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 42:07Cameron Hanes?

  But like, it's hard. Once you get to that level where you want to be like, I want to go to the next. Maybe if you have this elite talent.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:15Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. The talent's only one part. You need the time also.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 42:19Cameron Hanes?

  And that's, that's where I always struggled.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. And like, that's where I get back to being delusional. Call it delusional, but like my time grinding through, through work or prospecting out on the road or like sitting, sitting in the hallway with a baby at two in the morning.

• 42:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Doing this.

• 42:35Cameron Hanes?

  Mental strength, baby.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Mental strength of building some time on, that's time on the feet too.

• 42:39Cameron Hanes?

  It is.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  So at least I can tell myself that. And so if I can just be a little delusional and like trick myself into thinking that like, it'll probably, I'll probably apply myself way better on race day than the guy who didn't do it and only got like 10 to 15 hours a week.

• 42:53Cameron Hanes?

  What I think about too is, um, there's people who get, are going to get more training in than you. Probably more talented than you, probably have more time than you or more, or whatever, but do they want it more than you?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 43:06Cameron Hanes?

  And as we talked about, the mental aspect of these races is

• 43:13Cameron Hanes?

  probably more important than the physical. So yeah, they might out physical you.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:17Cameron Hanes?

  But you'll out mental them and that is the biggest part of ultra. It's not like you're running a hundred meters. You got to do it in, you know, nine point seven seconds.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:25Cameron Hanes?

  It's like you got time to dig deep and to be tougher than your competitors.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:31Cameron Hanes?

  And when you can call back to those, those nights where you didn't get any sleep and you still got in the work. Yeah, that gives you an edge.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 43:39Cameron Hanes?

  And it's like, we, we talk about that the mental is, is, you know, the key. Okay. Well then I guess, and you can't measure who's mentally tougher.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:49Cameron Hanes?

  But let's see.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:51Cameron Hanes?

  That's what I love about it.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  That's why I want to get into like longer distances after this. I'd love to do it. Actually, I noticed this is, I think, is this number 200? Podcast number 200? I think it was.

• 44:02Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  So I was like, this is not a coincidence. There's a purpose here. I need to sign up for a 200 mile.

• 44:07Cameron Hanes?

  There you go.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  So maybe I'll let you tell me which one I need to sign up for.

• 44:10Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, 200s, yeah. 200s are, I love it because everybody does, obviously do 100 first.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:20Cameron Hanes?

  Hunters are hard, long, long day, a lot of climbing like the race you're doing. But it's only one night. So much easier is again, that's like two different races now because when you get into the multi night, that's where people, we haven't figured out, you know, if you're, if you're fast enough, you can get it through them with no sleep.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:42Cameron Hanes?

  Like Rachel at Cocalona, I think she slept like 17 minutes, but you can, you can, if you're fast and you're going to finish around two days, a little over two days, you can get through two nights with no sleep. You can't do three nights. I've tried that or I can't do it.

• 45:01Cameron Hanes?

  But that single night 100 or multi night 200, completely different races.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:06Cameron Hanes?

  And that's what's fun about it is figuring out how to, how to nap. What does your body do with no sleep for two nights?

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I feel it's a greater test of like mental fortitude, right? I mean, that's what I'm excited about because I will do one. I just, I gotta figure out which one I'm gonna do.

• 45:22Cameron Hanes?

  How old are you?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  32.

• 45:24Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you're young.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, good. Thank you for that.

• 45:26Cameron Hanes?

  So 32, I was, that was when I ran my first marathon.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  No kidding?

• 45:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I hadn't even run a marathon, but by the time I was 32. So yeah, you got, you know, now I've been doing it for a long time.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 45:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So you got, you got decades, dude.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Right. And then I look at like some of these really younger guys that are just like throwing down sick times. Just everyone's just getting faster.

• 45:49Cameron Hanes?

  So there's a Brody Chisholm, do you know, he, he's like doing these multi day things. I think he's 18.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I've seen this guy.

• 45:55Cameron Hanes?

  And he got second, he just got second in that one we were just talking about, I think Tahoe.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:00Cameron Hanes?

  And yeah, he's just a stud, but his whole family, so we talked about being the example. His whole family does this. His mom is a beast. I think probably his dad is, his brothers. I don't know if they're sisters, but anyway, that's been the standard. This is what we do. And so it doesn't matter how hard it is. It doesn't matter that it's for everybody else. It's crazy. It's like, no, this is what we do and your body will do it if you train.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:27Cameron Hanes?

  So I love that part of it, but he's young. Um, one thing, uh, I just remembered this because I was talking or thinking about like the social media stuff, but Colts Moulders, do you know who that is?

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Everett. I was just with him two days ago. That's who we were running on the track with.

• 46:42Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay. Yeah. Cause I saw he made a comment or something about cats out of the bag.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:47Cameron Hanes?

  I love him. I don't know him at all, obviously, other than just reading his posts.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:53Cameron Hanes?

  But I, I love his demeanor and like his character, it's probably not characters, who he is, but I just love his, what he offers the world.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he's a lot like Marco, who you just had here.

• 47:05Cameron Hanes?

  Is he?

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we were on a run and I was like, I was like asking him about his college career and he was, he said, I walked so Marco could run.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Everett was a kind of a loud mouth and he was, he just called his shot and that's a beautiful thing. That's why it's infectious. It's contagious to be around someone that's like outwardly talking about their goals like you and I are doing. Like it's, it's fun to be ambitious and go for these things.

• 47:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  And, you know, sometimes people will turn on them. Like the sport they give the most to will turn on them for being too cocky or whatever. But Everett is just a great dude and he, he went to about, he dialed it back about 40% to hang with me and my ultra legs. We had fun. He's a great guy.

• 47:48Cameron Hanes?

  He, he's so honest. Like when he did that, the hundred in Florida, Florida Keys, I think, just how miserable he was. Cause everybody else, when they're posting something, it's never going to be how, it's always going to be how badass they are.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:02Cameron Hanes?

  Or crushing it or what, whatever. But he was just so honest.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 48:08Cameron Hanes?

  How much pain he was in?

• 48:09Speaker 01

  He had a better one before that where it actually now he's like working with SIS, the gel company.

• 48:16Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  He got into this hundred miler and I was chatting with him back and forth before he did it. And he was so prepared, ready to go. I think he had like nine hours into it and looked down at one of his gels. He had been taking caffeinated gels the whole time for nine hours. He was having a heart attack and he fell apart and didn't finish it.

• 48:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Um, but even then he was like super honest with it. He was like, I failed.

• 48:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  But like that, that's where we get back to again, like you're not so attached to like the result. Like you're just learning.

• 48:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  There's no failure. You're just learning.

• 48:44Cameron Hanes?

  How, how do you know him?

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Uh, through social media and then like a friend of a friend training with him. And, um, we just, we just connect really well. We're very similar, like just kind of same, same mentality, kind of thoughts with stuff. So.

• 48:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  We chat a lot.

• 49:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh yeah. He, he's, yeah, he's one of my favorites on, on, uh, social media and like he has some hot takes. I think, where did he, did he have one on high rocks or something?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  And, and guess what? I'm, I'm with him. I'm kind of with him.

• 49:13Cameron Hanes?

  I can't even remember what it was, but I know he was getting kind of criticized for it.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  He was in like, uh, you know, he's kind of talking smack about high rocks and it just kind of, what if all the runners, they're really, really good runners, like collegiate runners that train? If they just took over, they would take over the sport if they wanted to.

• 49:31Cameron Hanes?

  Probably.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  And I actually agree with that. Like if you look at the transformation of high rocks, like they've taken 90 pounds off the sleds. Um, and I'm, high rocks is fun. I love it. It's great. I've got to be careful what I say with the mic in front of me. I'm like getting all, I gotta hold it up.

• 49:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  But, uh, I, you know, I kind of agree with them. Like if, if, if runners jumped into it, like they would dominate the sport. Because you, uh, Ben Canute is a, is an Ironman athlete and he did, he just jumped into, uh, high rocks in Arizona. And he did like a week or two of training. I talked to him about this. And he had the fastest run splits of anyone, including the pros. And he just took nine minutes to throw a wall ball at a target and it landed him like a 103 time.

• 50:10Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  And so it's like, if he spent

• 50:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, anytime.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Six weeks just learning how to throw a wall ball, he'd take it over.

• 50:17Cameron Hanes?

  It's, I get that and that's probably true. But then I also think about, people said like the Olympians coming into ultra, they dominate. And it hasn't really happened.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:29Cameron Hanes?

  So, cause we've had, I think Molly Sidell, she's, she won, I believe it's her, she won a bronze in the marathon. And then she got fourth at like, uh, it was Havelina maybe. But, so it wasn't just like, oh, you're an Olympic athlete, you're gonna win every race.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Down the water, yeah.

• 50:48Cameron Hanes?

  You know what I mean? So she got beat by three ultra girls.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:51Cameron Hanes?

  And it's just like, so, yeah, I mean, fourth is amazing. I think she qualified for Western States with that, which is an incredible first performance. But it's not like what everybody's saying, like, once the Olympians come in, it's over.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not that quickly transferred.

• 51:05Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, it's still, still, it's, you know, there's a process to it.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 51:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 51:11Cameron Hanes?

  So I, I don't disagree that cardio and an elite runner would do, I haven't done a high rocks, so I don't know. But it might, there still might be like the top of the high rocks field might still compete with that, that runner. You know what I mean?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:25Cameron Hanes?

  Like, uh, who was the guy who won? You said the 54 minutes?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Dylan Scott.

• 51:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I bet, that's still a good performance.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Oh, hundred, yeah, it is. It is. They're all great athletes. I'm not throwing shade on high rocks.

• 51:36Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  But I think, I think whatever it was getting at is, you know, they all jump into it. Like, it might not be as impressive of a thing anymore, cause they would just take it over, but.

• 51:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, I love.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Let's not rile too many feathers.

• 51:47Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, no. I mean, hey, we like the hot takes. I mean, we just had Marco on here. He had a lot of hot takes on, on his.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  He's the man. I've chatted with him a little back and forth on Instagram. Yeah.

• 51:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he, he's, I mean, he's a good kid. Now, he works his ass off, dude.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:02Cameron Hanes?

  So people can say whatever, but he was here, he stayed here the whole week. And he was, you know, his daily doubles every day. Um, and also like, so went over to his track, for his track workout, he's. He's suffering.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Really?

• 52:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, and by himself. So it's like you can criticize and you don't like how he talks or he cusses or he's too confident or he got beat at the NCA's. Fine. Say all that shit, but he works his ass off and he's got a lot of talent. And I think he's gonna go a lot, he's gonna go places. So yeah, I love it.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Agreed. I think he's in, he's so good for the sport. Like he's so good for running. It's like if everyone was just boring and quiet and sat around and drank coffee and talked about fun workouts, like it wouldn't, it wouldn't be that attractive, right? Like you need someone like that and you need a little disruptor. And like, you think any of those hate comments or anything people were saying is bothering Marco? You're sorely mistaken. Doesn't bother him at all.

• 53:01Cameron Hanes?

  And I, I heard like Truitt's coaches Rory Linklater, he's Olympian from Canada. But I heard him on a podcast talking about how like if he talked like that after a race, he would have gotten trouble from his coach or whatever. And then he was kind of like, I didn't know which way he was gonna go with it, but he, he ended up saying, I like it though. You know, it's like, it does add the sport needs, you need characters.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 53:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So I love it.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  And what do you expect someone to do like when they're riled up, like in the middle of a train or in the middle of a race or just after like at the finish, like people are gonna be fired up.

• 53:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we want you to care.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  You want energy. Yeah, we want you to care. Exactly. That's healthy for the sport.

• 53:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I love it. Well, I love that you're getting ready for that hundred. That's gonna be sick. So is that, that's the next big race coming up?

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a big one.

• 53:49Cameron Hanes?

  But you're doing, you said you're doing the Ironman or half Ironman.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, in Oregon. That's three weeks before in July.

• 53:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  And then I'll do full Ironman California. I'm gonna try and break nine hours in that.

• 54:00Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  So, and that would get a Kona slot.

• 54:03Cameron Hanes?

  So is that what it takes for Kona?

• 54:05Speaker 01

  I think so. We'll see. Everyone's getting faster and faster every year. So it, under nine hours is like, anything finishing in Ironman is a great time, but just like getting under nine hours would be crazy.

• 54:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  So.

• 54:17Cameron Hanes?

  Is that considered elite almost? Or what is elite?

• 54:21Speaker 01

  I would, I would consider like nine thirty or, or under nine hours. Is elite. Let's say that.

• 54:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:28Cameron Hanes?

  Because I thought I thought under 10 was pretty good.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good for the working man.

• 54:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Say that.

• 54:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And then what are the winners getting? Are they under seven even?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know about under seven. Bloomingfeld and them did, uh, what, what, or I think this one, there was one last week and it was like 720.

• 54:47Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  I think that's the, I think that's the big nine.

• 54:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, seven, that's fast.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, wicked fast.

• 54:52Cameron Hanes?

  God.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Those are, those are some of the best endurance athletes in the world. I mean, I think Christian Bloomingfeld is.

• 54:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, his, he ran like a 106 half.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:02Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy. At the end, after, after 56 on the bike and a mile, whatever swim.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. You want to talk about guys putting 30, 40 hour weeks, like consistently, consistently doing that every single week.

• 55:15Cameron Hanes?

  And he's big and that's almost close to the Olympic standard.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:19Cameron Hanes?

  For the half, I think you need 103.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:21Cameron Hanes?

  But for his size and then after those other, like, what could he do fresh?

• 55:27Speaker 01

  I know. And, and he's, he's great for the sport too. You get some clips of him where it's like his aero bars are jiggling or like he's throwing up on the bike and he's just still pounding.

• 55:35Cameron Hanes?

  Sending it dude.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  So they're such impressive athletes. I think he did 720 in, in Texas. I think that's what, and it was a hot, humid day.

• 55:42Cameron Hanes?

  And what that, to me, I just love that, of course he's uber talented.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:47Cameron Hanes?

  But like wants it that bad to suffer that much to puke and just send it and does like, the way he's running, he's just sprinting it. You know her. How bad does that hurt?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 55:57Cameron Hanes?

  And still doesn't matter.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. You could see like, uh, actually that's where I'd sign up for my first triathlon. I watched him finish in the Olympics and he came across the finish line. It was like, yeah, this Norwegian won. And he just starts yakking all over the finish line. They bring out a wheelchair and take him off. Like this is the dude who just won the Olympic triathlon. He's just sold his soul.

• 56:18Cameron Hanes?

  That is sick.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. He's impressive.

• 56:20Cameron Hanes?

  That's wanting it right there.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 56:22Cameron Hanes?

  How does that not, that, that's, I mean, that's almost all that inspires me. I guess somebody who's super strong in faith, like if I watch it, that Jovey Martin preach, that inspires me. But other than that, it's like this, like.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Selling their soul.

• 56:39Cameron Hanes?

  Physical. Yeah.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:40Cameron Hanes?

  Physical.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 56:42Cameron Hanes?

  So, so crazy. Hey, did you have, uh, questions over there?

• 56:49Cameron Hanes?

  What was your breakfast today, by the way? O P H. Walk me through that.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  We had, uh, well, James got a really colorful bowl of fruit. That was really cool.

• 56:59Cameron Hanes?

  That makes sense.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Strawberry. He said, I'm gonna treat myself after the hundred.

• 57:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  He got strawberries, bananas and a bunch of whipped cream.

• 57:08Cameron Hanes?

  Did it match his dress?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  It did.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  And my butt plug.

• 57:12Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, good. Okay.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  And then I got, uh, I got four over easy eggs and then, uh, what was it like six flapjacks?

• 57:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, no bacon.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  No bacon.

• 57:23Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  I saved room for the flapjacks though.

• 57:25Cameron Hanes?

  The bacon.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  It did look good. In hindsight, I think it was, it was a bigger grab of mine. Next time.

• 57:30Cameron Hanes?

  It's all good. It's all good. Well, how was it?

• 57:33Speaker 01

  It was, it was 10 out of 10. To be like in Tracktown, USA.

• 57:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Seeing all the pre posters everywhere. Um, I'm such a fan. That was the perfect spot. It was great food.

• 57:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we, we like going there for sure.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:48Cameron Hanes?

  What do you got?

• 57:49Speaker 03

  All right. Well, if you've watched the podcast, you know what this first question is gonna be?

• 57:54Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  Fuck, marry, kill. Golf, being jacked or being fast?

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 58:02Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Those are three tough ones. Honestly, kill golf. Um, that's an easy one. Jacked or fast?

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Um, hmm. Right now, since I'm like trying to lose weight and I'm throwing away all vanity, I'm gonna say being jacked. I'm gonna call it weekend. I'm gonna call it the weekend, Jack, and I'll, I'll marry running fast.

• 58:28Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. I like it. Yeah. So, running fast can get you a long way.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:34Cameron Hanes?

  Jacked can only get you so far.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. If the enemy comes, you may not be able to outmuscle him, but you gotta run him.

• 58:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And, you know, we, we like to get jacked. It's mostly aesthetics. You know, it's just like how we look. We're running fast, that's useful.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 58:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  I was joking with someone, I was like, I think we've just come across this world of guys just getting more jacked and more jacked to impress other guys.

• 58:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, basically, yeah. The girls, they, I think, apparently they like dad bods, so I don't know what we're doing.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Let's just keep running. Let's just keep, no more weight.

• 59:06Cameron Hanes?

  That's right. What else you got?

• 59:09Speaker 03

  We talked a little bit about this, but I just, I want to dive more into it. But how does faith drive performance? And specifically, you know, performance anxiety or pressure like we were talking about?

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's a great question. And like, I'm, I was raised in a great house, very faithful home. But like, I really didn't start diving deep in my faith until like a couple of years ago, with a good, small group. And so I have really found my relationship with God. It's not like a works-based militant, do this, do that. But like an actual relationship with God in the past couple of years. And I think it's removed this, it's alleviated so much pressure and this huge gorilla off my back to know that like, you, me, James, we're all children of God. Like, we're all one body and we were all created.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  And however you view the Creator, that's up to you. But we were all created, Mother Nature, the mountains and stuff we love, they're all by a Creator. And you're not here to please humans. You're not here to, you're really here to serve Him, not them. And so I've been telling myself that a lot lately. Like I was telling you my sweet little acronym in the car. But just, you're here to serve a Creator. And when you kind of give up that burden of having to serve others, it just makes things a lot, I don't want to say easier, but you don't feel this immense amount of pressure to make everyone else around you happy. You're just there to serve God and like, serve other people. Do something for, for other people, inspire other people, not, you know, I know I'm wearing

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  no shirt on Instagram, running around, but I'm really trying to inspire people to like, you know, push themselves, push their limits, stack days despite circumstances. And that's what I'm here to do. And the more I serve and have like a servant leadership through that, the less pressure I feel on myself to perform. And so just being super detached from the results that Kyle has and just really enjoying the process and being in the moment, being present mile by mile or like minute by minute, just in the moment, like with you here, is, is enough for me. And yeah, it's kind of like an act of service.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  What I'm here to do, kind of finding my purpose now is just here to serve others and not so much. Make or serve God by helping others, not so much catering to their opinions. Cause if you're more concerned with their opinions and other people's opinions, then that's a problem.

• 1:01:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  More concerned with them versus versus your creator, that's a problem.

• 1:01:51Cameron Hanes?

  It's hard. I mean, we're conditioned to care about what other people think. And we're conditioned, like even like, you know, saying you want to break nine. Some would say, well, that's like works. You know what I mean? You should, you should, cause you could say, well, you just said that it doesn't matter. Like if you, if you just give your, but I don't, to your point, or not, not to your point, but to a point. It's like, I think you can do both. I think you can have goals for yourself and still not be ruined. If you don't get them and still be like that example, like, okay, yeah, it's okay. This is where I'm at now.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Cameron Hanes?

  It's fine. And so, and even running with your, with no shirt on, I can see where people say, well, that's performative. But I could also twist that and say that, well, no, that's having more of an impact. Cause more people pay attention now, so they're going to hear your message.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so that's the shiny object like, hey, look at me over here. See me doing this? Okay. Now listen.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:02:49Cameron Hanes?

  So I don't think that it's, yeah, you could get wrapped up just as superficial and say, that's, you don't need to do that. But you could say, well, am I more effective because I'm doing this?

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:03:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  This, that's spot on. Like I think, I think we look at like the way Jesus walked this earth. He planted seeds and he spoke in parables. He didn't, you know, wasn't sitting here convicting people. Like he spoke in parables. He did it in different ways. And like, I think, I think this fitness stuff and kind of showing my lifestyle is my way of doing this. I mean, I think it was, I remember an old boss I worked with just said, hey, you really shouldn't post all that stuff on Instagram. Or, you know, start a YouTube channel, all that stuff. And I was like, that's a problem. That's someone trying to like settle me down, but this is really my vehicle to like showing people that it can be done. And, and, and serving others and showing people like it's, it, you're right.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  Like I think you said it before, attention is currency, like getting people involved and invested in kind of your journey. And then however you can plant seeds in, in the midst of that is fine. But it encourages them and it can, it can change their lives. Like you've quite changed. I can't, it'd be hard to count how many lives you've changed with just having this podcast or showing your journey. Um, like even I'll take a good example. My wife, I told her like, I was coming to talk with you. And she was watching Keep Hammering in the garage, your Coca Dona breakdown. And she was like, you need to wash this. This is exactly what, and, and so I'm like, Tekla, my wife, doesn't really care about ultra marathons, but like, that's, that's someone completely

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  like not a, I mean, just not even in your avenue. You're still impacting her.

• 1:04:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  And, and, and the way you kind of like let your guard down and, and spoken that one, man, that was, that was super impactful. I'm so happy you do that kind of stuff.

• 1:04:40Cameron Hanes?

  I wasn't happy I did it, but I'm glad some of you was. No, it was just, it was one of those where you, you struggle and you, you know, whatever, just trying to be honest. It's like, I try to be honest. I don't know. People say vulnerable, but I'm just trying to be honest because I put on a, an act my whole entire life.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Cameron Hanes?

  Nothing affects me, whatever. I don't care what you think. It's all lies. We care about all that, right?

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:05Cameron Hanes?

  So I'm just trying to be more authentic. I mean, I, I don't even want to try to be authentic. We should be authentic.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Cameron Hanes?

  People say, oh, you know, well, you never, you're always the same. She's like, well, that, that takes an effort because it's like, I wasn't. I was, I was always like, never wanted to let anybody in. So, um, on that one, I blame a lot of the concussion, but it's, it's really just, it's how we should be. If we're struggling, it's okay to, to say you're struggling.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Cameron Hanes?

  You know, because how else are you going to get help? Otherwise you're just dealing with it all on your own. And that's, that's, we know that's not the way to do it. Whether we need, you know, faith or Jesus and, and something to help us through tough times or, you know, another human. And it's just like, we're here for each other. And it's like, I want to help people if they are in need. And I'd like somebody to help me if I'm in need. So I'm trying to be more, yeah, I didn't want to cry and be, you know, talk, be a pussy about quitting or getting knocked out of Coca Dona, but that was real.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Cameron Hanes?

  That was real.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. And think about the person we just talked about Everett, like you, his story resonated with you so much because he was

• 1:06:16Cameron Hanes?

  Real.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. He was honest. And we forget like how much like just human touch and honesty and like care. Serves us way more than, "Look at me, everything's perfect," and you put on this facade. And like, that actually depresses everyone.

• 1:06:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  And I've been, I've been leaning into this more is, starting my day in scripture, obviously, in prayer, and, and building that relationship with God, and then, setting my mind and my discernment to where, that inner voice in my head, that's telling me to like, reach out to that buddy that I haven't talked to in a while, or, "Go do this," or, you know, maybe choose the path that like, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Listening to that inner voice and acting on it, because, calling that buddy, like, I, I've had a few phone calls recently with buddies that have been struggling, like, hard, hard times. And family members have been struggling, that like, I wouldn't regularly call. And now that I'm calling them, I'm just like, human touch, and just being a listening ear, and just being honest and vulnerable, and letting that guard down, is so much more important than, like, this hustle culture,

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  "Look at me" syndrome that we got going on. And, uh, I'm just leaning in that a lot more lately.

• 1:07:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I think that's, that's powerful. Um, and I think like, if I think about people struggling that I've talked to, it's always like, especially these guys, we're always, at first, we're always like, "No, I'm good, I'm good dude. It's all, we're all good." And, uh, just like, reassuring that, "Okay, I mean, but if anything comes up,"

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Cameron Hanes?

  "I'm right here." And sometimes it takes like, a few different like, attempts, to get in, and then finally, they're just like, "Yeah, I mean, shit dude, hasn't been that good." But it takes a little bit, because our first reaction is like, "Oh, you don't want to hear about this shit." Like, or, we're thinking, "They don't want to hear about this, people got their own stuff to go through." But, if somebody actually cares, and loves you,

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Cameron Hanes?

  or cares about you, they want to hear about, you know, we, we don't want to be vulnerable, we don't want to be the weak person, because we don't want the guy, our buddy, to go and say, "Yeah, God Cam is, shit, he's struggling."

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:30Cameron Hanes?

  We get worried about that, but-

• 1:08:33Cameron Hanes?

  I think we need to let that go.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:35Cameron Hanes?

  Because we see what that results in and what that results in is, what is it? You know, so many people, so many men killing themselves because they don't feel like they can talk about it. Because they've internalized everything and I don't want that. So I'm like, just trying to be more, if I'm struggling, I just want to say I'm struggling. If I think somebody else could use a little love, I'm just gonna be that person.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:09:03Cameron Hanes?

  And, but it's hard.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Cameron Hanes?

  It's fricking hard because it's not, it's not how we're raised, it's not how the world raises us.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the devil will use shame and fear and put it in you to make you think like you're not enough. Or you, who are you? You're not entitled to reach out to him. Look at all the flaws you have.

• 1:09:24Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Um, but like, we're given a heart and a mind of, of love and so, and of love and power. And we need to use that and that, that touch and that just relationship. Like, we're longing for those human relationships. Don't put on this, this front of like, I'm tough. Nothing bothers me, like you're saying. I think a lot more men in particular need to hear that. Because I hate hearing some of the stories and the situations my buddies and friends are going through. And I just, I think we need to be more honest and vulnerable, be more like Everett.

• 1:09:55Cameron Hanes?

  No, I, I love it. I, I, that, I mean, real is always, is always more attractive.

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:03Cameron Hanes?

  Than fake, for sure. Did you have any others?

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, I think one of the first things that kind of drew me to you, uh, was specifically when you were doing that world record challenge. Obviously, long day, you're in a lot of pain, but you were always annoyingly positive. And for me, that stuck out because when I'm hurting and I'm in pain, the last thing I want to be is positive. I want to feel bad for myself. I want to be angry. I want to lash out at people trying to help me. Where does that come from?

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Great question. That event in particular was like kind of a crazy spiritual high, more so than others. Cause the way we structured the golf event was way, I hope you you're doing something for greater than me, for those who can't, like we actually went into that with, yeah, we're gonna achieve this Guinness World Record, but we're gonna livestream it and we're gonna do it to raise money for a really important camp that's dear to my heart. So there's a camp down in Texas called Camp Aranza Zoo. And what they do is they're down in Rockport and they take kids with with cancer, with missing limbs, whatever it may be. And they give them kind of the outdoor experience that they're robbed of in the hospital or with their limiting conditions. And they've got medical

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  staff on site. They have a zip line. They can go birding, kayaking, fishing, all this really, really cool stuff that they don't get. And in fact, if they have a sibling, they will, they'll, they'll pay, they'll have the sibling come out with them. But you know, if they have cancer, they'll get their treatment throughout the day, but just be able to be outside and do all this. So instead of just making this, look at me, Guinness World Record, it was more so like, how much money can we raise for Camp Aranza Zoo to get kids out of camp? So the way we structured it was, people can make donations on like dollar per hole amounts. And so you could do one dollar per hole, eight hundred and ten bucks, and livestream it. And some people were making bets for birdies. And I was like, I got an hour into this and just actually feeling like you're doing something

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  that's like, not even about you. Like, it's, it's really like, it's cool that I'm out there doing it, but I'm just like this little vehicle for just like such a larger impact and such a great cause. It was hard for me to not smile. Like, there was, because I had the logo on my hat, a lot of people from the camp were out there. Like, it was so easy to just, you know, even though it was miserably hot and just like a brutal day, and I was just like beat to a pulp, like my hands were disgusting. Um, we raised over a hundred thousand dollars.

• 1:12:31Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  In a day.

• 1:12:32Cameron Hanes?

  That's incredible.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  And, uh, like I remember there's a, there's a real, if you go to my Instagram, there's a real, where like I'm running and I'm like, a couple hours in the event and I'm talking to Jack, our cameraman, it's just like a raw video of him and I'm like, like, how's the livestream doing? He's like, great. And I was like, are we raising money? And he's like, yeah. He's like, if I told you, I can't even tell you how much. I was like, yeah, don't tell me, I'll cry.

• 1:12:56Cameron Hanes?

  That's awesome.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  But I, but to go back to it, like just finding that, I think there's a lot of power in just finding a purpose that's like so much greater than Kyle. And that's not lip service. Like I actually mean it.

• 1:13:08Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  And I actually meant it that day. And so, um, it was just like, it was fun to know that, that it wasn't about me and like, it alleviated that pressure of like, having to perform. And I was just out there achieving a world record in the process. But like, I think we sent 50 kids to camp.

• 1:13:24Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Um, just by doing that. And so, and, and, and it's, yeah, it was a really cool day.

• 1:13:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's amazing. Um, yeah, a hundred thousand dollars for kids that needed. That's, that's impressive. Definitely more impressive than the world record.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. The world record means nothing. Someone's gonna go beat it one day and I'll be like, okay.

• 1:13:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  But we, but we got, we got a really cool thing with that and changed lives. And so.

• 1:13:52Cameron Hanes?

  Wow. That's amazing. Good, good job on that. But I mean, I don't know, James, I thought, I don't know if it was because of Kyle, but I thought your, your updates from your race were pretty positive. I thought you had a great attitude. So.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's probably just because I was delusional.

• 1:14:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I, I don't know. I don't know why I was, I felt like pretty sorry for myself at, at one point. And then, uh, I don't know. I started to like the pain. I don't know if that was maybe the threshold of like past the 50K and finding out who I am when I want to quit.

• 1:14:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  Cause I did. After a 50K, I, I hurt bad enough that I could have walked away and been sore.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  But yeah, I don't know. It was a weird thing and it did definitely make me think in that moment about how positive you are and where that comes from. So just wanted to ask.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  You seem like you're positive. I saw that one clip where you're like, you know what? I asked for this. I wanted this.

• 1:14:49Cameron Hanes?

  See that, that like switching the narrative up that way. That's a big deal.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  You're just five good steps, bro. Five good steps.

• 1:14:59Speaker 03

  I thought about that. I did. I thought about that. I got to a point where I did need five more steps, but I almost flipped it to be a challenge. I did want to see how bad I could make it hurt.

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  And it worked for whatever reason. It was like, okay, it hurts. I was like, okay, this hurts, but I definitely can make it hurt worse.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  That's the tennis guy coming out in your high school.

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  That's definitely from tennis.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  The two hour match into a four hour match.

• 1:15:24Cameron Hanes?

  That is your volleyball. Took a spike right in the face.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  I know this butt plug hurts, but I can.

• 1:15:31Cameron Hanes?

  I can get through it.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  And 100K is an ultra. We were good on that.

• 1:15:36Speaker 03

  We're gonna save that for the next shit talkers.

• 1:15:38Cameron Hanes?

  If he did it, it's up for debate.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's the rule.

• 1:15:45Cameron Hanes?

  We're gonna knock off all these ultras. You'll have to pretty soon enough to run 1,000 miles for it.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  That's right. Yeah. The Colorado Trail. We'll give it to you.

• 1:15:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Okay. That was 500 continuous. We'll do that.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:15:57Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you know what I was gonna say? You probably could have saved a lot of money. A dollar per birdie. How many birdies did you get?

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  66.

• 1:16:05Cameron Hanes?

  66?

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:07Cameron Hanes?

  Whoa, you're pretty good then.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, I put a lot of time into golf.

• 1:16:11Cameron Hanes?

  66 is out of 810. I was thinking it's gonna be like, once you got kind of fatigued, I'm like, there's no way you got a birdie.

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and it's misleading because I used one club the whole time.

• 1:16:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  So I'd have these really good holes. I actually almost got a few hole in ones, like they scared.

• 1:16:28Cameron Hanes?

  Really? Did you get an eagle?

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  No, no, but no, no eagles, but I lifted out on a couple. People had bets for hole in ones and I just couldn't do it. And we would have raised so much more money. I can't think about it. But there were some holes where I'd go up to like a putt from me to you and I'd use that wedge and I'd like get too much grass. I'd make like a five. It'd take me five putts to get a hole because then it passed. I'm like, my dad would be like, he came out there a few times and he'd just be like, oh. Struggling and I'm like, I'm like 80 miles into this.

• 1:17:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, really.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Shut up pops.

• 1:17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  And I'm trying to get this thing.

• 1:17:04Cameron Hanes?

  I'm almost thinking you should have done that with the handle.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little happy.

• 1:17:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Cameron Hanes?

  Cause that wedge would be tough to putt with.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  It was miserable.

• 1:17:13Cameron Hanes?

  You turned it around maybe.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd like belly it like I'd kind of like levitate it a little bit off the ground and like just kind of get the forward roll going, but man, there's like some, some clips of the live stream, my buddies, my buddies would pop in and commentate.

• 1:17:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  And that was really funny, actually, like I rewatching all that, but they're like, I think this is six. I think this is his seventh putt. Alright, he's in an eight and he hit the green in one. Seven butts.

• 1:17:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's not how you want to do it usually.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:17:42Cameron Hanes?

  That's good. That's good. What do you got, James?

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:17:46Cameron Hanes?

  That's what you had?

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:17:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, dude, this, this has been, I'm so glad we did it cause it's like, James said something like, I don't know what podcast 11 and I'm like, yeah, I, I don't know shit about this guy. So, so he goes, oh, it's alright. I'll come up with some good questions. And then I did some re, I, I knew I'd seen a few things.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:07Cameron Hanes?

  But I'm so glad we had this because sometimes it's, these are the ones, these are the, the most impactful conversations is the ones you didn't anticipate or

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:17Cameron Hanes?

  you know, didn't predict and it just kind of, I just, I loved what we talked about. I loved learning more about you and what you're about. And, uh, I think people, I don't know if they'll gain anything from it, but they'll be entertained hopefully.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:30Cameron Hanes?

  So I, I thank you and

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  I hope it helps.

• 1:18:32Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, I'm, I'm super grateful that you've made time and I'm happy you did O P H and Piska and that you did that. You got the full experience.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  No, it's been fun. I appreciate it. This is all kind of surreal sitting next to you and I really, man, I just admire so much about you. So much.

• 1:18:49Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, I, I hope this helps someone listening to it, but, um, just more importantly, like even watching what you've done in your career and, um, the seeds you planted is just so inspiring. It inspires me to, to share more about my life and hit record on the camera, chase those, chase those, uh, events and, and raise a great family. Like you've done that. You can be more proud of that than, than any race result or anything up on these walls, man.

• 1:19:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  You raise a great family.

• 1:19:18Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I'm, I'm proud of them. I It might have been in spite of me, but I'm proud of them. Yeah, but no, thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Keep hammering, guys.

• 1:19:31Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:20:14Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:20:53Cameron Hanes?

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