Full-Circle Besties: From Nickelodeon to 'Just Keke' with Tayla Parx

This one gets real. Keke sits down with her day-one bestie, Grammy-nominated artist and songwriter Tayla Parx, the force behind hits for Ariana Grande, Fifth Harmony, and Panic! At The Disco. They talk about growing up in Hollywood chasing their dreams as child stars, acting together on Nickelodeon’s 'True Jackson, VP,' their first boyfriends, and messy Myspace moves. Tayla helped Keke own her story while co-producing 'Just Keke' during one of the hardest seasons of her life. Keke also opens up about motherhood and the unexpected courage that came with it. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Keke Palmer?

  My guest today is a hitmaker, a visionary, and one of my oldest friends. We've been tight since we were kids. We came up on True Jackson VP together, and now she's a Grammy-nominated songwriter for the biggest artists in the world, from Ariana Grande to Janelle Monae and Panic at the Disco. And she just executive produced my album, Just Kiki. I'm talking about the one and only Taylor Parks. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.

• 1:01Keke Palmer?

  Before the holiday rush kicks in, I'm partnering with Airbnb to help you plan that perfect autumn escape. From dreamy mountain retreats to spacious homes perfect for gathering with friends and family. Airbnb has amazing spaces for every kind of getaway. Now let's get into it.

• 1:21Keke Palmer?

  Taylor, Taylor Parks in the hoes! Yo, it's so funny because you were just talking about, like, it is very weird that we're here in this, you know, hosting, you know, guest show-type thing, because damn, girl, I've known you for 22 years. Yeah, I literally came into the building and was like, "Oh, what's up?" Oh, man, we out here. We ain't in Altadena and Pomona no more. Oh, my gosh, yes. Altadena, 626 Pasadena, we love you. And Pomona, 909, what's good? Oh, my gosh, I remember those drives when we'd be going out there to have the cookouts. Y'all coming over there. Larry cooking. I was going over there. Demis Ariza cooking. It is so amazing to see how far we've come. Sometimes I feel like I have to pinch myself because, wow.

• 2:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and it's not to see these moments where you get with somebody who's literally been with you through all of them. They're just like, "Oh, this is crazy." It is so crazy. We about to get into all that. But first, I gotta get into your pre-show pull-up questions because I'm trying to see where your headspace is at. So today, I'm giving Country with a Side of Which is you all day, every day, Texas girly, but then also because you live in Nashville now, which was so crazy to me. I mean, you live in a lot of places, but Nashville is like, you really started to make it your main home, home. So that country [BLEEP] is definitely coming through.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:36Keke Palmer?

  Today's mood in one word, as always, silly.

• 2:42Keke Palmer?

  What did you listen to on the ride here? Olivia Dean.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yes, so good.

• 2:46Keke Palmer?

  And then who's this nice to each other? Oh, that's the name of the song.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:50Keke Palmer?

  So Olivia Dean, I'm actually not familiar with her.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Really, really dope, killing it. Check out the project. Well, each project.

• 2:56Keke Palmer?

  What type of genre is it?

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I would say that it's like, um, it's R&B. It's very like, sometimes she has like uptempo moments, but I feel like it's more like lo-fi R&B vibes.

• 3:06Keke Palmer?

  Lo-fi R&B. The names in the genre always get me. Now we're in the lo-fi. I gotta figure out what that means. Okay, one thing that instantly makes you laugh, my goats. Yeah, because I, I often brag about the fact that you have like a farm. You know, like I often brag, I'm like, yeah, my best friend, she has a farm in Nashville. She like grows her own stuff. She has eggs. She has a whole deal. So like, you have goats. Please tell us everything that you have.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  I have goats, chickens, ducks, um, sheep, pigs, and then dogs and some barn cats.

• 3:38Keke Palmer?

  And it's so crazy because I remember when this started to begin at your, at your other house in LA, where you were just getting into the plant mom thing. You were plant, you was growing everything, growing everything. And I was like, okay, she's really into this nature. Like, you always have been into nature. We both love being outside, but you really love learning about the nature type of stuff. So the fact that you have a farm now, I feel like it is the perfect evolution of Taylor from when we was kids.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Makes a lot of sense.

• 4:01Keke Palmer?

  It makes a lot of sense. Okay, and then last screenshot on your phone, and do not cheat. Because if you were cussing somebody out, that's fine. Tell us who it was.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Well, my, my last screenshot was me basically telling, uh, the head of a label. I was like, I don't, I don't do more than three sessions back to back with strangers. I don't know what's going on. Like, if we do like, if we like each other, then we can talk about getting more on the books. But like doing three in five days and then I'm trapped.

• 4:29Keke Palmer?

  That is so, first of all, I live for the Virgo. I live for the advocacy. I live for you telling the label man how you doing.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  I'm like, please, I'm like, look, this is just what I want to do on. I just don't want to be devastated for five days just in case we don't like vibe creatively.

• 4:42Keke Palmer?

  I really do want to get into that with you because I think I've seen your journey in the industry from acting, music. I mean, everything you do, we're both multi hyphenates. But I remember early on in the music industry, you go into the studio, real late, working, you teaching yourself how to engineer, teaching yourself how to produce. And then now you're at this place where you can advocate and say, you know, look, this is how I run things. But what was it like getting there? You know, because I don't think people realize how it really is impressive to me because you really did so much of it on your own.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, like, growing up, like, we didn't have family in the entertainment industry. It wasn't like, oh, let me just call up my cousin and he's going to get you to this thing. It was literally us deciding to move here and then whatever connections you make from there, that's, that's what you make. And, and we'll see what you make of it. But all of a sudden, it was just like, you know, it would be like a mutual friend, like me and Leon meeting each other.

• 5:35Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, Leon's time is period.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you literally told me, you were like, I have somebody that you're gonna love him. And before I was even on, uh, Victoria's even a little bit, it was like we hadn't just known each other because you told me that I would always love him. So it is so interesting because then we end up learning how to like engineer and do all the stuff over iChat. Remember that was the whole thing?

• 5:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I remember you'd be at the house seeing, having me redo, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I forgot, we remade that.

• 6:03Keke Palmer?

  Girl, we remade that song and you, because you knew how to do the stuff and you were so, even that early on. Because I remember it would be you, it would be my Sean, it would be Tori Kelly. Every other day, I feel like you were like going to the house, working with them and I mean.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  We were all in the IE.

• 6:18Keke Palmer?

  All in the IE. I literally remember that and I'd be like, what you doing today, Tilly? Like, oh, I'm just going there, we're going to produce a track, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:24Keke Palmer?

  And that was like the early, early, early. But then you moved closer to the city and I mean, you would be in the studio with Babyface. Um, you and Leon would be in the studio with Babyface. You were like, what, 18, 17, 18 at that time?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, 17.

• 6:34Keke Palmer?

  And it's so cool also to see all the different ways that you've moved through music because. Your first love, like most of us, R and B soul.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:42Keke Palmer?

  But you've dominated so many different, I mean, when I think about High Hopes with Panic at the Disco, right?

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:48Keke Palmer?

  And then I think about, we're talking about, uh, pop, Fifth Harmony.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:52Keke Palmer?

  Ariana Grande. What was your journey like with figuring out that you don't have to stay in one lane as a writer? Cause I remember that being a big thing for you, like, uh-uh, don't box me, I wanna do music with whoever and anybody.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  After a while, I started to understand, oh, these people want me to be only this. And it first started off with just because that's just the assumption that they're making of me. You know, I'm black, I'm from Texas, you know, I'm walking in a room with a little swoop swoop. You know what I'm saying? I'm chilling with it. You know what I'm saying? But so they immediately were like, oh, this is what you do. But then I started to realize, oh, even down to the simple, like, just history of understanding why certain, like, where rhythm and blues radio comes from. And even if it was a song covered by a black artist, it was said that it was a completely different genre. And I felt like a lot of that came from because the different money in both worlds.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  It's like, no, you as a black person can't do one of the highest grossing, like, genres, which it could be country, it could be pop, it could be anything. And now we're at the time in my career and in music period where pop can be anything. Uh, Billboard charts are so diverse, you didn't have like, you know, as many rap artists on the Billboard Hot 100 or as many R and B in the Billboard Hot 100 as you do now. And so, back in the day, it really was just like, oh no, y'all are trying to, y'all trying to keep me broke. Like, y'all trying to say, if I only do this, only certain type of music, and I only can relate to this type of thing. Meanwhile, they do all kinds of type of music. You know what I'm saying? So I was just like, you know what, that's not for me. And then the other side of it is, I like to always be a student.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Like, if I'm writing with the same genre, I'm usually writing with the same people then. And that means the same producers and all those other things. And saying, hey, I'm gonna do jazz this year, gives me an opportunity to collaborate with different kinds of people and to be just always learning.

• 8:45Keke Palmer?

  And it's so interesting what you said because honestly pop music really is just popular music and it could be any genre. We see it all the time where it's like, oh, this is a hit and it's hip hop or this is R and B, whatever. But I am curious of your opinion of why does it seem like sometimes R and B is struggling in that regard? Like, why is the money not being put into it? But then we can have a situation like with Ariana Grande, who definitely, especially early on, was doing straight up R and B. And it was deemed as pop or it was not, you know, totally put in that same category that somebody maybe like Summer Walker's album would be put in. What is that about?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I think it's just different industries within one, which is so strange. Even the way that you do your splits in pop and R and B and hip hop are very different. You know, like, there is such thing as a pop split, which is weird. Um, you know, it's basically just saying like, you know, kind of what they do in Sweden, everybody splits everything evenly. Even if you were snoring in the back of the room.

• 9:40Keke Palmer?

  Hell, no.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  And that's the part where I'm like, we could do a little something, but, uh, no, if you're snoring in the back unless it's given, you know, oh damn, he's snoring in the key of what's gonna be the song. Like, I don't know, I'll even, I'll even give you a benefit of the doubt. You know what I'm saying?

• 9:57Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God, Taylor, please.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  But it works just differently and I, I do think that that has been used to control black creatives. I do think that it's been used to leave them always looking for some advance or some, so you can never be fully in control of your career.

• 10:12Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God. So when you look at somebody like Beyonce, for instance, and the statement that she, we're assuming she's subtly making with Cowboy Carter. What do you think that says to the industry and does it help? The reason why I ask is because at the end of the day, she's Beyonce.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:25Keke Palmer?

  So is that something that benefits others or does it, or is it just like Beyonce yet again showing us she's great, you know?

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I do think I will say that anybody who is going against the grain is making it better for everybody else. Like, I'm, I'm in the business personally of creating some new normals. And so whether or not you believe it's a country album or not, it's the fact that some other black woman looking at that, whether they're 10 years old. You know what I'm saying? Or somebody who's literally young as hell right now, who doesn't even have anybody. to look up to in that type of way.

• 10:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  We're it's supposed to be a part of kind of just molding what somebody else could see as the new normal one day. And so I'm like, okay, I I really Beyonce for for doing that and for, you know, of course, it's gonna be a little bit different because, yes, you're Beyonce.

• 11:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  But just seeing how hard it was for even Beyonce to get there should show you how hard it is to be accepted into those different communities as a black creator.

• 11:21Keke Palmer?

  Ah, you know, there's been a lot of talk around about superstars. We don't have superstars anymore and. You know, it was so cool. You and I were having a conversation. We were hanging out. I don't know if we were working on just Kiki or just we were kicking it and you were just saying how. Superstars exist differently in every era. Like, you know, now, you know, when in when we're thinking about when Rihanna became a superstar, it's like, everybody has to be real. No more than a everybody's authentic, you know, and the brutal Mars, when he initially first popped, it was about the record. We just need to, you know, I was really loving when you were breaking all that down.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:54Keke Palmer?

  And so this question is two-fold. The first part is, what do we define a superstar as now? You know, that we're maybe missing. And then two, are we just not making superstars anymore because artists aren't giving up as much control?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Hmm, very good question. I feel like, yeah, like, there's a few, a few answers to that. First of all. Are there not enough superstars because they're not giving up enough control? I wouldn't say that, but I do think that back in the day, it used to be like. I'm the radio man, you see, and I'm gonna tell you what you like. I'm gonna tell you what you like, and this is what I'm gonna spend the big bucks on, like, that type of thing. You know what I'm saying? When you can do that, it's like, of course, this person is gonna be the superstar because all of us concentrated. You can concentrate that that's. It starts to become a numbers game at that point. Exactly. We're gonna tell the people what they like, boom and boom, they're not gonna have an option. I don't think there's enough concentration of eyeballs on one person for that to happen again.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Like, we're, we're already done with kind of the age of just blinding superstardom like, um, like Michael Jackson. And then I would say like the next thing would be a Taylor Swift. I don't know if we'll have another Taylor Swift. We have ten or twenty years to find that out. Somebody's going to be so. Massive and I'm not to, that's not to say that we don't have stars, right?

• 13:08Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  We'll always have stars, but and I, and I do think that this might be a good thing that maybe it's not just five mega stars, but there's, you know, thirty or forty.

• 13:18Keke Palmer?

  Stars.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Stars.

• 13:19Keke Palmer?

  Doing their thing and having substantial brands.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  And it's different.

• 13:22Keke Palmer?

  What we were always fighting towards guys.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  I, I think that that's where we're headed. Exactly. I think that that's where we're headed, um, with that second part of the, the question for sure, for sure.

• 13:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And then what would you define, like, what is the personality of our superstars of today?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Um, I would say authentic, like, and that's really hard to be in this day and age. It really is because you know that there's gonna be millions, maybe millions judging you, right? I think in this day and age, like, it's really hard to be real. And even if you are being real, how do you let the people know that you're being real? With all these other things, it always ends up this kind of thing.

• 13:57Keke Palmer?

  Too much.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then it's like, they don't trust you.

• 13:59Keke Palmer?

  With super meta, everybody's acting at themselves, acting at themselves, watching you and saying, I'm acting as myself. Like, when, when, when does it end?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:07Keke Palmer?

  And I'm doing it too, you know, like, we, I don't know.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Everybody does, because we grew up in the social media age, like, you know, maybe if we didn't have to think about it.

• 14:15Keke Palmer?

  Introduced me to MySpace.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Yes, we was on being bad. I was like, there's this place on the internet where kids are coding.

• 14:23Keke Palmer?

  And we could talk to strangers, come on. Yes, because, so Taylor, I was homeschooled. When we moved to California, my parents put me in homeschooling, but Taylor's parents let her perform and still go to normal school. And so she would find out about the things that were actually happening in real life. And I would be like finding out from her. So she was like, yo, there's this thing called MySpace.

• 14:43Keke Palmer?

  She was like, I think we should check it out. We gotta just lie about our age a little bit. Cause we were like twelve and you're not, you weren't allowed to be on unless you're eighteen. When I tell you she changed my life with MySpace, we created whole communities.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did.

• 14:55Keke Palmer?

  Like, we had boyfriend brothers.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Yep. Yes, literally. I was like, I'm dating this guy at my school, at my regular school. He got a brother. You down? What are we doing? We used to literally be like, let's go to, to the, to the church and hang out with the kids. Then we could go see our boyfriends because our parents would let us, you know, hang out with them.

• 15:13Keke Palmer?

  Using church, cause they love that church hangout.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 15:17Keke Palmer?

  Honestly, we had to do what we had to do and we love praising God either way.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  We like, we love him and we're here with our men as well.

• 15:24Keke Palmer?

  Okay, well now this makes me go back to the beginning when we first met at American Juniors. But I want to go before our meeting and how you even did American Juniors. Like, I know that I know this story, but like, I, everybody else doesn't know the story. We need to go back and relive that. So obviously, you always had an incredible voice. But when did Teresa, your mom, decide to really, you know, harness in on it?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Hmm, when I was in Texas, um, back in Dallas. Debbie Allen had a, like, a dance school that was there in Dallas. And I used to have two left feet, and you'll know this because this is how we ended up meeting, actually. So, um, I was, I just started to go with, you know, Debbie Allen Dance Academy. And one day, she ends up showing up, she's like, "Okay, I need somebody who can sing." Right? And people knew me for the singing kid. They definitely weren't being like, "She's the dancer." You know what I'm saying? But, so she came to school one day, um, to the dance school and was just like, "I need a singer." Boom, boom, boom, I ended up singing for her. And then she, she hit me with that old Debbie Allen. She's like, "You can sing, but can you dance? You can dance, but can you act? You can act, but are you a multi?" Like, she hit me with that. Um...

• 16:30Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, I'm on the floor.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  It was giving fame, you know, it was giving fame. Um, and so, you know, she finally ends up meeting my parents and convincing them to like, like, "Let me come out for some summers, like, for a summer camp, um, in L.A. or something like that." Um, and so that was kind of my introduction to, whoa, there's other things here. I can do acting plus singing. And at the same time, there's these musicals and all of that stuff.

• 16:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Um, and then the first audition that I ended up leaving somewhere, anywhere to, was American Juniors. Um, and American Juniors was just like, I mean, you know, it was a...

• 17:06Keke Palmer?

  So, American Idol, for those who maybe don't know, American Idol is the parent show to American Juniors. They did American Idol, but there was an age where you had to start, and we were way too young. So then they did American Juniors, and it was as young as six, seven. I mean, I think maybe six or seven was the youngest. You and I were about nine.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:22Keke Palmer?

  Um, and she was from Dallas, I was from Chicago, and we both got the golden ticket to California. And I remember we were working, they had, they were doing, it was definitely like a fame school there.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:32Keke Palmer?

  They were like, "At 10:00 a.m., you do vocal lessons. At 12:00 p.m., you do dance."

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Like, we're nine!

• 17:40Keke Palmer?

  Literally, but then we were both working on the dance together and our moms kinda got together. She was like, yo, you know, Teresa was like, your daughter wanna go over there and dance with my daughter? You think they, you know, collaborate vibe out? And so we, we became instantly best friends. Like, I don't even know if I, I guess I knew the word best friend before then, but it was just so innate for us to be like, this is my girl.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  We were being bad, like literally splashing around each other in the water. I'm supposed to be getting ready for a thing, I'm rubbing off my, uh, competition number and stuff, 'cause I'm over here dangling in a jacuzzi. What are we doing? Unprofessional.

• 18:13Keke Palmer?

  We had a ball.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:15Keke Palmer?

  We did our thing in the competition, we went back home, you know, there was talk of wild cards. Ultimately, we weren't going back to the show. But our parents stayed in touch and my mom and your mom both were thinking about, which it, it sounds so crazy, but it's so common, the whole packing up where you live and going to California for your child to do a dream. Like, I feel like we knew.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Not this fake ass Sharon voice, what is this? You fake, that's not her.

• 18:40Keke Palmer?

  It was thousands of kids that we knew that did the same exact thing.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:44Keke Palmer?

  Um, which also made it scary because it's like you are one of thousands of kids that are doing this.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:50Keke Palmer?

  Um, but my mom and her mom were like, well, hey, if you go, uh, you know, we'll go and we can be each other's family.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:56Keke Palmer?

  Um, and so we moved, we both moved to California, y'all moved to Pomona, we was in Alstairdina, so we were very, pretty, pretty close to each other and we grew up as each other's family.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 19:06Keke Palmer?

  And it was just so crazy when I think about it, I will never forget when, um, you end up doing Lil' Lightness.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:12Keke Palmer?

  And Hairspray.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  That was a weird transition from acting and doing all these acting auditions, 'cause I was surrounded by a bunch of acting kids or whatever, I didn't, and then eventually it was like, okay, I started to meet the Mashans and the Leons and stuff who were like, oh, well, we do, we musicians.

• 19:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  I was like, okay, but one day I just was like, oh, so I can do acting, but I can do acting behind the scenes. And there's also this music thing that I can do behind the scenes and I can be on camera or off camera if I want to, or on the record and off the record when I want to. And that changed my whole life after like years of being like, okay, maybe I'll do like the acting thing. But something about it just wasn't the thing for me. I wasn't as passionate about that. As I would be eventually with the music.

• 19:56Keke Palmer?

  But it's so interesting because we end up still ha- I mean, I think we all go through ways with that kind of thing, but we were always meant to be multi hyphenated. And I think growing up, especially in the time we did, everybody made us choose or wanted to make us choose. And honestly, you just end up choosing what's coming your way mostly, right? If the gig's not there to get you done, I'm doing this now. You know what I'm saying? So over time, I think we were able to actually spread our wings and realize that, hey, I can actually do multiple things in this business. I will never forget the fun we had on True Jackson VP. Okay, that was so much fun working on that show together. What do you remember when you think back on that time? Because I remember two things. I remember us having fun as a time of our lives. But then I also remember us having some of the most intimate conversations about how much pressure that we felt.

• 20:41Keke Palmer?

  Because we were the ones in our family. You know what I'm saying? Like, we were, they sacrificed a lot for us to be successful. Whatever that meant. And it just, it was, I remember I could never express that with anybody else other than you.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, because like, and I think a lot of our mutual friends and stuff like that, it was like, they were friends, but they were more competition than they were friends. And so that's a really hard thing to balance when you're a kid. Balancing, you know, we're all going to city walk and stuff like that. Everybody's talking about their job that they just booked last week. Or we were at the, we were all at the same audition and I'm auditioning for something with, like, that's a very rare thing.

• 21:23Keke Palmer?

  I remember us going to Universal Studios and Tyler James pulling out his black card.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  It was crazy. I was like.

• 21:28Keke Palmer?

  It was like, god damn, I guess that's network TV money.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. Exactly. It's like, what do we know about a black card, though? Like, it's all so strange. But I do think that that's a lot to process for, for kids, especially when you're, but I was so lucky because me and you had this genuine, genuine friendship that was like, girl, regardless of whether we was, you know, working at Wendy's or doing this thing, we would still be this and we were able to still like support each other. So I definitely think having some of those. Really, really hard conversations together. I don't, I don't know how I would have made it through, um, through this industry, honestly, without having somebody that's real. I mean, I still count the same best friends as the ones that I've had since all those times ago.

• 22:11Keke Palmer?

  I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, you're such a critical part of my life and my evolution of who I am as a person and, and a professional entertainer. Um, I'll never forget when me and you got into that big fight and I end up writing "Rainbow" on "So Uncool."

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Still my song.

• 22:27Keke Palmer?

  Guys.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Still my song.

• 22:28Keke Palmer?

  Guys, the song is way too dramatic. Literally like, I tried to do this like Justin Timberlake breakdown in it, so it goes from one vibe to another vibe. And literally, I'm singing, "I rainbow turn to black and white. Every color disappears when you are not here." Why was I that deep?

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Cause.

• 22:45Keke Palmer?

  No, because Taylor would be coming over. Every time, we always talk about it's the Virgo of September and the Virgo of August thing.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:51Keke Palmer?

  Whenever Taylor would come over and we would hang out, she would be so chill. Like, she would be, she never like acted excited, because she always kept it inside. And I would be like, "Taylor, Taylor, Taylor." And I was like, "I'm tired of every time that you come over, you're not happy to see me."

• 23:04Speaker 01

  And I would be like, "I am." I'm so excited when I get into the car. She's like, "You got me out here looking stupid." And I'm like, "I'm so excited inside that I literally just shut down." I'm just like, "Ah." Like, it just completely, I'm overwhelmed and overstimulated.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  But you know what? The other thing that I did learn so much about, um, our friendship, because, you know, the August, September Virgo thing, but also the way that our parents raised us was so different.

• 23:28Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  I used to go to your house and see so much love and so much compassion, and seeing that outwardly versus my house was kind of like, "Don't show your emotions, your gold, your this, your this. Don't cry, don't do all of these other things."

• 23:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  And, and our friendship really was like, wow, I can be open and I can be honest and vulnerable. And you were one of the few people that I was able to do that with, and I learned how to do that. And I, I truly do think that outside of the acting background, like, learning that skill to be able to be like, "Wow, I'm learning to open up," is, is the part of what transitioned that songwriting in the first place, because I was like, "Wow, I have somebody in my life who is telling me, 'You don't have to hide it all.'" Like, and if you can imagine, you know, 10-year-old Kiki, "You don't have to keep it all inside. Tell me what's going on." You know? You know, that was a, a real, real help. And it's always so funny, just thinking back on it, you would be like, "I'm tired of this. I'm tired of this. You gonna show me some love."

• 24:26Keke Palmer?

  That prom Tuesday.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  We used to literally be like, yeah, if I hit you with the love you, instead of the I love you.

• 24:33Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. Can we please talk about text language? By the way, I just heard that texting is now seen as typewriting to these damn Gen Alphas.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  What?

• 24:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, girl.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  What do they be doing, voice memos?

• 24:44Keke Palmer?

  They voice memos, they calling, they feel like this is.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Calling.

• 24:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  OK, OK.

• 24:49Keke Palmer?

  They kicked up in the bed.

• 24:52Keke Palmer?

  I can't be.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  They're like, my little hands can't take it.

• 24:54Keke Palmer?

  Texting, please. I didn't know that. Back in the day, we had codes. I could send emotion through text. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, if you called me, I was shocked.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  It's like, what's going on?

• 25:03Keke Palmer?

  Why would you be ringing my line?

• 25:04Speaker 01

  Why would you leave a message? Why would you do that? Like, our generation is very like.

• 25:07Keke Palmer?

  Very different. And I do feel like they're starting to try to shade the millennials, but we built this.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  We built this, brick by brick.

• 25:14Keke Palmer?

  This is dial-up history.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:17Keke Palmer?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Like, just at the edge, when it's like, OK, we still remember that time where it was like, you had to hear the little like [BLEEP] happening before the wifi.

• 25:25Keke Palmer?

  Y'all don't know what it's like to pay Lilo and Stitch on Disney Channel dot com.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Y'all don't know.

• 25:29Keke Palmer?

  Y'all don't know. They ate.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Zack and Cody.

• 25:34Keke Palmer?

  Zack and Cody, I loved all that. The little Nickelodeon parties and stuff we used to go to, that stuff we eat down. Kid's Choice Awards. Yes, going off. It was too fun. Oh, my gosh, those memories.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  And they're taking it all away. Something's always, somebody got the fun, ruin the fun for somebody. [BLEEP] of life.

• 25:52Keke Palmer?

  OK, so what I want to go now and get into with us?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  I mean, I kind of want to ask you some questions. I mean, you don't got to ask me some questions. I know this is the baby, this is Kiki. I know you show, but I'm like, I got some questions.

• 26:06Keke Palmer?

  OK, go ahead. I'm ready. Get it through with me.

• 26:14Keke Palmer?

  Here's the thing about traveling. While postcards are nice, the real magic happens when you dive into local life. And trust me, there is no better way to unlock a culture's heart than through the kitchen. When food's on the table, we're all speaking the same delicious language. Speaking of which, I've got some exciting news, y'all. I'm hosting my very own Airbnb original. Experience in Chicago on December 17th. And it is all about cooking up some love in the kitchen. Imagine this culinary dream. You, me, my pops, and a local chef with mad skills. All in one kitchen cooking up a storm. We're talking flavors so good, they'll make your taste buds do a happy dance.

• 26:56Keke Palmer?

  We're talking delicious recipes, kitchen secrets, and plenty of laughs. We're about to make this kitchen feel like the hottest cooking show in town. And y'all know when my dad and I get together, there is bound to be some entertainment. We might even share our secret ingredient for the perfect comfort food. I don't know about that one. The best part, it's not just about what's cooking in the pots and pans. It's the laughs we'll share, the stories we'll tell, and yes, the absolutely incredible food we'll devour together. When good people gather in the kitchen, that's where the real magic happens. So whether you're a kitchen pro or novice, this experience is for everyone who loves good food and good company. And trust me, by the end of our time together, you'll feel like a culinary superstar.

• 27:41Keke Palmer?

  So if you're ready to roll your sleeves up and join me for some culinary fun, head to airbnb.com/kiki to learn more about my Airbnb original experience. Let's make some magic in the kitchen together.

• 27:56Keke Palmer?

  This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. November has me feeling like a contestant on a cooking competition show. Running through stores, searching for ingredients, trying not to have a meltdown in the spice aisle. And this year, I'm hosting Thanksgiving dinner. The pressure is real. But with my iPhone as my wallet, at least the payment part is stress-free. You know that moment when you realize you need like 17 different stores to get everything on your list? The fancy market for the turkey, the regular grocery store for basics, the specialty shop for that one specific ingredient your auntie insists makes the mac and cheese perfect. I felt like I was on a scavenger hunt designed by an evil genius. But. Here's what made my turkey chase less stressful.

• 28:41Keke Palmer?

  Every time I spotted that contactless symbol at checkout, I knew I could pay quickly and keep moving. Apple Pay is designed to be secure with Face ID built right into my iPhone, so I wasn't worried about using it at every stop. Just a quick tap and I'm off to the next store, still earning all my credit and debit card rewards on every purchase. It's faster and easier than using physical cards or cash. The real moment of gratitude came when I was juggling three bags of groceries and my iPhone started ringing. My dad calling to remind me about the specific brand of cornmeal he swears by, as if I could forget after last year's cornbread fiasco.

• 29:22Keke Palmer?

  Anyway, with Apple Pay, I didn't have to perform a whole juggling act at the register. Just double-click, Face ID, tap, and done. No fumbling with cards or dropping bags required. Plus, Apple Pay doesn't keep transaction information that can be tied back to me, so my dad's secret ingredient stays secret. When I realized at 9:00 PM that I forgot the fresh herbs, Apple Pay saved the day again. It's accepted at millions of places worldwide, whether I'm shopping in stores, online, or in apps. That contactless symbol was like a beacon of hope in my time of culinary crisis. Even if I lost my iPhone, my card information would still be protected. Between the multiple grocery runs,

• 30:06Keke Palmer?

  last-minute dash for extra butter because there's no such thing as too much butter at Thanksgiving, and the emergency cranberry sauce situation, I must have hit six different stores? But with Apple Pay working seamlessly across my Apple devices, each checkout was smooth sailing. No digging through my bag, no juggling groceries while trying to wrangle a credit card, just a quick glance at my iPhone and tap. Some of my ingredients I even ordered online because who has time to drive all over town? When I saw that Apple Pay button at checkout, I knew I was in for a smooth, secure transaction without having to enter any card numbers. Say goodbye to typing in payment details while trying to read your aunt's handwritten recipe.

• 30:50Keke Palmer?

  Oh, look, hosting Thanksgiving is stressful enough without payment drama. Apple Pay keeps at least one part of the holiday preparations running smoothly. Now, if it could just help me figure out how early to start thawing this turkey... Say goodbye to payment hassles and hello to seamless transactions. Pay the app away and keep your holiday preparations stress-free. Terms apply.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  I mean, honestly, I'm like, okay, so in all of the different years that you have, you've played a lot of different characters. You know, you've had a lot of work on breaking down the character and their emotions and how they would feel, how they would say something. When it came to this album, were you a little bit scared? Like about like, okay, well, what is this version of me?

• 31:43Keke Palmer?

  I was very, very scared, actually, doing Just Kiki. And I mean, I know you know, you know, because you were there. I think it's so interesting when I hear you talk about me when I was younger and just like how vulnerable I was and how I was not just expressing myself, but I was embodying what I was expressing. I think as I got older and being so in the public eye, it became so much harder to embody that level of vulnerability. It just was, my performance became to be the show and I just kind of almost disconnected from that side because some of it was really hard and heavy to hold. And I think when everything happened that even led up, you know, in my life that led up to me doing the Just Kiki album, it was very much a come to Jesus moment of, you

• 32:24Keke Palmer?

  know, no more performing strength, you know, just, just live in it and experience what it is you're experiencing and let it really overwhelm you. And I just remember me, you know, in my mind thinking if I'm going to do another project again and my art means so much to me, I have to be, I have to be 100% in it. And there's no way that I'm going to be able to do this without Taylor. You know what I'm saying? Because A, obviously your extraordinary skill, you've done, you have so, so much success. But then also you know me and I was gonna, I knew I would feel safe, but I was very scared. So that's why I was like, I'm only going to be able to be trusted. I'm not doing this with nobody else but Taylor. And so that's why, that's how I felt going into this album. And I remember that first day.

• 33:09Keke Palmer?

  Girl, that first day was crazy. And again, it was just you being like, "Let's talk about it."

• 33:19Speaker 01

  The real [BLEEP]. Like, "I don't wanna hear the PR answer. I don't wanna hear. I wanna hear we're back 11 again." And I wanna hear like, "Damn, how did you feel about all this crazy [BLEEP] that just went down? And how are we gonna make sure that we're telling your side of the story?" Because it got a little bit out of control there for a second, with everybody else's opinion of how they felt it all went down. And, you know, but this was a moment where we were like, "Oh, let's reclaim it."

• 33:45Keke Palmer?

  It was the most humiliating time of my life. It was the most humiliating time of my life. It was so, um, out of control. And I'm a person that really tries to be in control. And I'm a person that really has pride in what I represent. You know Larry and Sharon?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:04Keke Palmer?

  Girl!

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:06Keke Palmer?

  Larry and Sharon don't do bull [BLEEP].

• 34:09Keke Palmer?

  You know, they would stress us. I'll go on a city walk and you act right. Because they're watching you. And it's like, who's watching me? You know what I mean?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  They're like, "The world is a young black woman." They always put that there like, "You can't just be coming any old way."

• 34:23Keke Palmer?

  Yes. And so for me, it's like carrying that weight. And I'm sure everybody, whether they are an entertainer, whoever, as a black person, when you're carrying that kind of weight, it can make it seem like you have to be just so damn perfect. And nobody can. You're asking me to be, I mean, there's only one Barack Obama. You know what I'm saying? Like, everybody not gonna be Barack Obama. You know, like, in general. You know, like, you think about the, every black person that gets to this thing. Everybody wants you to be that. They want you to be perfect. And it was something, it was a burden in my life, you know? But I still tried to rise at it. Every step. Y'all raised the bar this way. Guess what? I'm doing this. Right, right, right. Guess what? I'm doing this. I always did what I had to do. But then this happened. And it was not about anything that I had to do.

• 35:09Keke Palmer?

  It was about something that I had to face in my life. And that I can't control everything. And that this is a change. And so... I just remember having that conversation with you that led us to Off Script and Misunderstood immediately. Two of my favorite tracks on the album, the first things that we did. And it was from that conversation where I was just talking and you was just, I mean, how do you do that? You, because you don't just do it for me, right? It ain't just because I'm your best friend. You've done it for multiple albums with Ariana Grande, for Tom, I mean, the list goes on. Where you've created these moments for people that encapsulated these moments in their life. But I just remember just telling you and you were just looking and you would say a little word every now and then.

• 35:51Keke Palmer?

  And I would just keep, I mean, what, how are you able to do that? And allow me to be amused to also your gift?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  It's so funny because it's like the same thing that you probably have like when you become a character, right? That isn't like not you at all. I do think that being curious about like, whoa, this person is having, feeling a lot of emotions. And maybe I'm not so good at saying my emotions like right away, but I'm so curious about other people's and making sure that everybody else is understood. But I do think that there is this, this curiosity that I have of just listening to somebody's story. Because I know how it feels to be misunderstood, right? That not to plug on. Like I know how it, but it's the worst feeling in the world. So as a songwriter, my only job here is to make sure that you feel heard. You know what I'm saying?

• 36:42Keke Palmer?

  But you also so skillfully inside of the emotion I express, uh, whoa, you wove in or it was woven in the narrative within the narrative, which is off script. I'm an actor. You know what I'm saying? So this is, we're talking about two relationships.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:56Keke Palmer?

  Not just my relationship with my craft, with this guy, but with my audience. Not only did he misunderstand me, but so did you.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely.

• 37:08Keke Palmer?

  So we're also talking about the parasocial relationship.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:11Keke Palmer?

  Which is the overarching theme of, of Just Kiki as well. Where it's like, I'm using one, one relationship to lead you into another relationship to reflect. This relationship.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely. That's honestly like you've got to be able to as a songwriter to tie in all of these different moments because you could also be the person writing a song that gets them read. Like, you know what I'm saying? You don't want to be that person that's like, what was this song happening? You know, when, you know, you could, you could be a part of it and you have to just, I take so much pride in the fact that this is gonna be somebody's very real emotions. Now, if they get read and it's still real, well, at least we got it out. You know what I'm saying? And it's real. Um, and I'm gonna make you as likable as possible when we, when we do this like little thing, you know? Unless that's not the intention or whatever.

• 37:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  But I think that that's the, the realest thing like, and so special for me to be a part of is when somebody's like, this is exactly what I was trying to say, you know? So, I'm, I'm so thankful that you got to feel that as well when working with each other.

• 38:13Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. I felt it in every, and even on the ones that I had nothing to do with writing wise. I mean, when I think about "Unless It's You," when you turned that on, because this is at the end of our, our creating the project and you were like, I got another one that I, I want you to hear that I think would be right. And you played that song and you're like, I think it's gonna round it out. Uh, and, and I remember hearing it and immediately tears in my eyes. You remember, I remember you, because it made you have tears in your eyes. It was one of the...

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you cry, I cry.

• 38:39Keke Palmer?

  Girl, one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard in my life in a, in a power ballad. We don't get that often, but you still somehow made it feel now. Um, how did you know that that was a project that we needed on the album? Because we went through a lot of different phases. Went through the, the beginning of the love story, you know, with my son's father, to the, the crash out, the building burning down. The aftermath, but also we made space for what was.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think that especially when you decide to say, first of all, to be this deeply involved in a project, um, and then also co-executive producing with you, it's like from track one, I'm trying to see what track 13 is gonna be. From track one, I need to see, understand and make sure that I walk away from this album knowing that people got the full side of you right now. And the other thing that I like to do is when you are 65, 70 years old and you listen back to this particular body of work. I wanted to transport you. I wanted to transport you back to that time and those emotions that you were feeling. And also to see the growth, like, man, I used to be, you know, going, great, this is what I was going through. Or I felt like that was the worst time of my life.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  But then three albums later, you feel that, like, it's, that is what the, the music is supposed to do. It's kind of be like a, a, just a time capsule for you.

• 39:57Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  And so when we were going through it, and especially with Unless It's You, I was like, there's so many things that came out of, I think, just seeing you evolve over years, like, whole, whole time, um, you know, the whole, I don't know, twenty something years, it's been about your career, right? And so I knew that you being a parent was gonna change things in a crazy, crazy, crazy way. Because I don't know if there's anything outside of your family that you would care more than, you know, than your actual career, that's something that you put all this time and energy in, than your child, right? And so with your child, and then, of course, even just being vulnerable enough to

• 40:40Speaker 01

  love somebody and let somebody love you, um, those moments have to, have to be on this album. And regardless of if that love has evolved since then, right? But it's good to talk about those moments, because then you get to know, like, okay, well, this is how we got here. And then the next album, they'll understand what it evolved into, what it didn't, whatever.

• 41:00Keke Palmer?

  Yes, because it's all, I, I often say that to people with Unless It's You, and I do think they get it, like, uh, it's so true that it's, it captures the risk and the vulnerability, but also the farewell.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:11Keke Palmer?

  Of, it can be, it can be what it is, even if it didn't become what it needed to become.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 41:17Keke Palmer?

  You know, and I think that's sometimes difficult, but it's the honor.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:21Keke Palmer?

  You know, of what that, what that means, um. Oh, my gosh, so when you, when I said, hey, I want you to do this album,

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:29Keke Palmer?

  what was something that you thought to yourself that you wanted people to know about me through this body of work? That maybe only, you know, you've seen, or you've known it, you would want it, want this project to help them to see about me?

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Um, I think personally, the more like, serious and intimate side. Because a lot of times, like, you see people and you're like, "The gag is!" And do do do do, and like, all those other things that make you so funny and sow you. But, there's all these other things that I love so much about you that they haven't seen. You know, and all of these other things that aren't, you know, a character or a performative thing that I love so much about you that I'm just like, "People gotta see this! You guys gotta get a load of this!" I'm like, "Hey guys, did you see all these other amazing things?" And so, like, definitely, that was something that I was like, "Okay, they've got to see these other aspects." And so, when you first hit me up about this, I was like,

• 42:26Speaker 01

  "I'm up, where we at, where you need me to be." Like, and we got it done, and it didn't take that long, honestly. And I love projects that don't feel like work. Um, it felt like a bunch of therapy sessions that, you know, of working through. And I feel like it started off, probably, I feel like our first moment started off of your past birthday. We were literally having like, just the most real conversations, and I truly think, and I don't know-

• 42:53Keke Palmer?

  That was my 30th birthday? It was so really crazy.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:59Keke Palmer?

  But, amazing, too. It was like, amazing with y'all, but inside of it was-

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Exactly, inside of it was like, "What the [bleep] is going on with life, but I'm with my girl!"

• 43:10Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, do you have a favorite song? Uh, mine's "Misunderstood," from the album.

• 43:18Keke Palmer?

  I know that's hard, but, I mean, I also love "Unless It's You," but "Misunderstood" is the one I would literally listen to every day, on repeat.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  I mean, it's our girl that tick tock-

• 43:29Keke Palmer?

  Everybody loves "Exposed."

• 43:31Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, like, "Exposed," the lyrics are just so funny, and I felt like we really gathered up, like, your funny part, your funny aspect, but we being real. Like, we being funny, but this ain't no joke.

• 43:44Keke Palmer?

  The way that the funny and the silly of my personality is captured, it and this, even with the, "You were supposed to be my stab man." Like, literally, like, stab man. Girl, are you saying you're Oprah? Well, now, they didn't even clap that cheek. Now, they didn't even clap that cheek, okay? Because if you're stab man, what does that make me?

• 44:04Keke Palmer?

  And the old [BLEEP].

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:06Keke Palmer?

  The melody of the conversation of that record is so, so, so, so, so. But yeah, I mean, obviously exposed too. I mean, even when we get into the, you know, boy, you know, I'm from Chicago.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  I ain't like these LA hoes.

• 44:20Keke Palmer?

  No shade, no tea.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Tell me who you had in my pants.

• 44:22Keke Palmer?

  Y'all can't. It's so much of that character that I really do feel like, because it's how I, it's how I buffer the moment. So I should live in the music, you know, because I really am a very serious person. Only people really close to me know that.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:37Keke Palmer?

  Because who wants to burden you with this?

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:39Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? If I really come to you and talk about the awareness of life and all of it makes no sense and honestly, we're just gonna live and we're dying. Like, nobody wants me to, you know, you don't want that. So I just buffer it with jokes and stuff like that. So I think it's like, it's good to feel that in the music. And I'm so happy that this album, I realized when I did the Lauren EP and then when I did the Big Boss project, like storytelling is me. That's how I, and how I do an album, how I do music. It's my own way and it's not meant to be anything other than Kiki. You know, and that's also like, again, the big statement with the album of Just Kiki is that reality. And I couldn't have done it without you, you know?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Thanks, man. Well, another person who I feel like you couldn't have done it without, which is, I've always wanted to ask you this, is Baby Leo.

• 45:31Keke Palmer?

  Y'all know your girl is busy, hosting my podcast, memorizing my scripts and running after my little one. Breaking through this busy season requires equipment that's working as smart as I am. And that's why I'm obsessed with the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus. It's cross training reimagined with features designed to help you reach your goals effortlessly. Giving personal trainer meets tech genius meets motivation station. Listen, this thing is so smart. Peloton IQ provides intelligent strength coaching, watching my every move in the best way possible. The movement tracking camera counts my reps, corrects my form and suggests weights that'll

• 46:11Keke Palmer?

  challenge me at the exact right moment, helping me achieve more in less time. And don't even get me started about the swivel screen situation because it's everything. One minute I'm conquering a 45-minute run, then with one smooth spin, I'm flowing into a five-minute stretch. The personalized plans, though?

• 46:31Keke Palmer?

  That's the real showstopper. Peloton IQ creates these custom workout plans that have me feeling like the main character in my own fitness journey. Matching you with instructors who get your whole vibe, whether you need that extra push or just some real talk motivation. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at onepeloton.com.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  How do you feel like your creative, I don't know, explorations and journey and stuff has changed since becoming a mother?

• 47:08Keke Palmer?

  Leo's made me much braver. I thought I was brave before. You know, I think most people would feel like, you know, yeah, I'm courageous. You know, but there's been times where I haven't been for myself. I've been courageous for others, but I haven't always been courageous for myself.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  I love you so much.

• 47:35Keke Palmer?

  You know, a lot of times, what kept me going was what I'm doing for my mom and dad. What I'm doing for the twins. You know, what I'm doing for my family. That's what gave me courage. But when it came to being able to speak up for what I wanted, I never could do it, you know? But when Leo came around,

• 48:01Keke Palmer?

  Leo made me feel like I could do anything for me. And that's different. That really is different because it's like when you're the kind of person that is always like, you know, your identity is based off giving. You know, it's outward. It can be difficult to understand how to make that twist and transition. But children are always going to be, my mom says that all the time. You know, children are our gifts. They telling us what we need to know and what we are meant to truly be. And Leo showed me that I could do it for me, that I could make the hard choices, that I could say no to others to say yes to myself.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Come on now.

• 48:39Keke Palmer?

  That I could have. boundaries because Leo when he doesn't want it he's like

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Oh and I love it. I love it. I'm like when little Leo was like, girl, you ain't been around seven months. I don't even know you anymore. I'm like, and you have every right to feel that way. Look, even about me, even about your TT.

• 48:54Keke Palmer?

  But he loves every time you come in with a gift.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  I know, I'm like, he be playing.

• 48:57Keke Palmer?

  Because you be always giving him a gift too.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  I'm like, ask him about the cool line. Exactly. I'm like, ask him about the cool line.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Um, no, but I love that. And it's been so amazing and inspiring just seeing like, you know, when you've been that same way since you were so freaking young and then you're able to make that transition. Um, and making that transition for your son, um, and with your son, it's, it's been so amazing to see.

• 49:23Keke Palmer?

  And it's crazy you bring it up because I just need everybody to know you were right there when he was born.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:28Keke Palmer?

  You're putting up his, uh,

• 49:29Speaker 01

  crib and washing his little clothes. Making sure it was organized.

• 49:34Keke Palmer?

  Getting his room ready.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:35Keke Palmer?

  You came right there in Connecticut. You was right there. You and Nora did everything, showing me, doing videos the whole way while I'm up in there. Can't feel my legs.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't like that part. I was like, I don't like the.

• 49:47Keke Palmer?

  Pushing that button every damn minute.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  I didn't like the you in the hospital part. I was like, okay, now make sure my friend good back there, you know?

• 49:54Keke Palmer?

  It was so amazing having you.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:57Keke Palmer?

  So I want to get into because obviously growing up for us, some of those big writers that we, that people would often, when, even in the, as early on in your career, when you first started writing, they would be comparing you to Esther Dean or to the Money Longs. And I'm curious if you didn't get it, if you ever got a chance to talk to those women or if they were ever any mentors to you at any point? Or who kind of supported you on your journey of becoming who you are in the music industry?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  So many people because I, I always say, actually, yeah, like when it comes to black women doing pop music and other genres, there's not that many people to look up to actually. There is Esther Dean and, and, and there's Money Long. Um, and then a few others that I'm probably not thinking of right now.

• 50:37Keke Palmer?

  Sure, sure.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  But when you start to get into those names of like one of four black women have ever done a, a, a country number one and one of eight have done a rock and roll number one. It's not that many people to look around and I can say that both Esther. And, um, and Money Long have been so inspiring. So when it came to, I felt like I was running into, like, I was procuring a lot of the opportunities for myself. But there was always some guy wanting to come in and say like, okay, I want 20% of everything, everything that went in.

• 51:06Keke Palmer?

  Not the pimp language.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. I'm like, I just want you to get a percentage of the things that you bring in, you know, or whatever. It just depends on that. Like, I'm not asking for anything crazy. Um, and so I went to, um, I both asked Neo and, um, and Estridine these questions because I knew that they would understand. I was like, do you think I should just say, you know, [BLEEP] like, because this is just the way that the industry has been?

• 51:27Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  You know, boom. And they were like, nope, you stick with you, you stick with your guns. And I was like, okay, so if these other writers can do it, you know, I can do it. So that's what the conversation I had with them. And then with Priscilla or Money Long, seeing somebody who's definitely giving Virgo down.

• 51:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, another Virgo on our hands.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Virgo down, seeing her really, really stand up for herself no matter what. Because our industry is so based off of being relevant and being likeable. And sometimes you can be, you know, you can be more relevant and less likeable or whatever it is. But you're so concerned about all those things because our industry makes you feel like, we, we can't wait to replace you. Actually, we'll get somebody for a third of the price if we can replace you because they haven't been around as long. They haven't achieved as much, you know?

• 52:12Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  So, but when you have women like that that you can look up to and say, no, they stood by it and seeing their evolution. Money Long is an artist, Estridine is an actress, um, as well. Like, it just gave me even more, more reason to say, okay, and some black girl will be looking at me one day. Um, and saying, oh, yeah, like, she's been able to get, like, number ones in seven different genres. It, it's impossible for me, the way that I think is if one person has done it, then anybody can do it. But I just need to be one of the one people who does it.

• 52:44Keke Palmer?

  Yes, and I love hearing that they were there to give you that good advice. I think that's so important because it's so true what you said, where we often see this industry wash, rinse and repeat. And we especially see it in female rap, where it's like they use the newer girl to take out the older lady. And then now they keep on doing it. And I mean, and, and it's really interesting because I feel like I, I, it's, to me, it's like. It isn't allowing the craft to move forward.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:11Keke Palmer?

  Because nobody knows where their enemies are coming from.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 53:14Keke Palmer?

  And know when to talk to each other because it's all so competitive instead of it being collaborative and us getting some amazing new records or new sounds or whatever it could be. I mean, how do we fight against that, you think? Because I know you do a lot of that with writers, I mean, in the community with trying to get things changed and

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:32Keke Palmer?

  moved and getting more respect and getting more of your earnings. But how do we continue to move up against the corporate side? I mean, obviously, we have to learn more.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 53:40Keke Palmer?

  But how do we put the power more in our hands so that they can't pit us against one another?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Ownership. I'm a, I'm a true believer in ownership. And you don't gotta own it all. You don't gotta own everything. You don't have to own it all at the same time. But you have to have some type of, I, I got really tired of saying like, oh, can we do this? And they be like, I gotta ask the boss. You gotta ask the boss's boss, boss, of the boss, boss, boss, boss. And I'm like, who am I talking to here? Because nobody wants to take accountability. If there's always somebody, I would rather you tell me, I don't think that you are worth paying.

• 54:11Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Now, if you can come to me and you can tell me that, I'll say.

• 54:14Keke Palmer?

  And what are you basing it off of? And what are you basing it off of? Because this is where it gets tricky, and I'm sure you feel the same way, is I'm cool. Like, I know my worth and my value, but I know we're in the business. So I'm cool with going by the data.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 54:26Keke Palmer?

  For this scenario. We can go by the data. But what happens when y'all move the goalposts of the data?

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 54:32Keke Palmer?

  What happens when people can do this and that? And all of a sudden, they're number one, but nobody played the record?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 54:38Keke Palmer?

  What do we then do with that type of thing? Like, how are we, how, because they can move you at the history books.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, absolutely.

• 54:45Keke Palmer?

  Based off of one little rule change.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think it still becomes going, goes back to owning something. Creating businesses that uplift the creative. If you're upset about, you know, songwriters don't get paid and they go to a session, we'll start a publishing company or a management company, and you find a way to pay them. And make the new normals, you know? You're upset about writers don't get this or artists don't do this? Then, then actually build companies that you want to see be the new normal. And even if yours isn't the company that creates the new norm, normal for the next 20 years. You're a part of many people who will try to continuously do that again. And we've been really struggling with this, the big three, you know? And we have to only be concerned with what they're all doing.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  But we forget that, you know, if we could take our rap girlies, for instance, most of our big rap girls, they started off on an indie that is outsourcing this talent to the major. You know what I'm saying? Like, there, it didn't just directly go to the major. And then they were like, time to get the bag. And in, in exchange for that, that particular bag, um, you give up um, a really, really powerful, um, chess mark.

• 55:57Keke Palmer?

  And let's talk about that, right? Cause I do, I, I do think it's a give and take with anything in life. Um, so if, if a young artist is thinking about signing to a label and they're giving up, you know, let's say masters and whatever other then maybe they also are giving up merger, couple of other things. But they're getting not only mass production and major promotion, but they're gonna get a big hefty check. Is that an issue as long as they know they're going into that? Because I feel like it's important to tell the, the people that, hey, something's gonna give. If you want complete ownership, you may not get as much marketing. You may not get as much money. You may be spending more than you're making. Now, will you have a lot to bargain with when that time comes and you decide to get a collaborator? Sure, but it's like no direction is wrong.

• 56:42Keke Palmer?

  And I feel like a lot of times we make it seem like black and white, but it's really about what you want.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  That's exactly what I was gonna say. Anytime you sign anything, it's, first of all, what is my idea of happiness? Right? My idea of happiness, like, cause to be in, to be an artist, for instance, if we just keep, keep it with just artistry. It's like, okay, if you wanna fast track to being able to open up for an artist that is on like, let's say they're a Warner artist or whatever. And you're like, dang, I would really love to open up for Dua Lipa, then maybe you should be a Warner artist. Because it's gonna be a lot easier for you to, first of all, be able to afford to go on that tour. But also because they wanna see Warner X opening up for Warner, you know what I'm saying, headliners. That's just an example. But the other thing is like, okay, what is my idea of happiness? Do I wanna do arenas? Do I wanna just be able to sell? About the Roxy, do I wanna earn my merch? What is your idea of happiness?

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Because that's how you know what kind of building you need to be in. What kind of structure that it looks like? Because those are two completely different ways of going. And every now and then, we talk about this all the time, like the artist, um, you know, and the superstar, like in that type of way. Sometimes they've become one, like they are one thing at one point in their career. But a lot of the times, the pop star is not willing to do what the artist does, and the artist is not willing to do what the pop star does. Period. Those are different things. And it's totally okay. And both make the world go round. Like, you can't have one without the other. So I do think that, yeah, like, if you're gonna take, if you know that, whoa, I wanna, I, well, also, I think women and artists are very different because it costs us a lot more to be artists.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz you think of the glam, right? I mean, fashion itself is a billion dollars. Yes, absolutely. Good damn grief. Absolutely. Fashion, that'll really spook ya. Yeah, it will. But yeah, yeah, it is more expensive in that regard, the fashion, the glam. And dang, I done pulled the same outfit like three times, maybe I should buy it.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Mix it up a little bit, you know, if I'm written the same red camera, you know, for, in the, for the 50th music video, you could've bought the motherf***ing red cameras. So, and then also you working on your next album. I know we were just talking about it, we was in New York, we just said, you was just talking about it. Oh, yeah, we're in New York. Yeah, you were telling me you were working on, you ready to do a full album again? Yes, I'm ready to do a full new album again. Um, and I just kinda like with my own project, I like to make sure I've lived enough life. I think that between the last album, it took a little bit younger, I took like a year and a half in between, which I never do cuz I always feel like the longer that you take, it's like, I gotta catch you up on this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and it's like, I'm five years older. Of course, there's much to catch you up on, you know? So I try to make sure that I'm talking to the people sooner than later.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, definitely in between projects, I've just been kind of, I'm in the very early stages right now of just shaping it all. Um, and I'm excited for next year for it to come out. I can't wait, you know, I love everything that you do. And I wanna go back down memory lane because my dad found this in Chicago. In the garage. Come on. That you made me for one of my birthdays. Yeah, you made this T and K, best friends, you see this, this done left, but the friendship remain. Exactly. Okay. Best friends.

• 59:48Keke Palmer?

  So let's see what this is. Okay, yeah, this is us, nine years old, when we were doing American Juniors.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  First picture we ever took together.

• 59:56Keke Palmer?

  I mean, we got our numbers on, first of all, look at that hair. You always loved cutting your hair. It used to piss me off. Hair always long down your back.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  So what am I supposed to braid now?

• 1:00:04Keke Palmer?

  Exactly. I was always braiding Taylor's hair and wrestling her and tackling her.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm like, look, I'm the small one. I was never winning. I was never winning.

• 1:00:13Keke Palmer?

  Trying to force me to play basketball. Remember, you was the first person, I think, that made me watch Love and Basketball.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:19Keke Palmer?

  Cause you loved that movie.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  I loved that. And I kept trying to literally find that type of thing. I was like, I'ma find me a little Love and Basketball thing.

• 1:00:25Keke Palmer?

  And in.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:26Keke Palmer?

  What was that?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Michelle in, something like that.

• 1:00:29Keke Palmer?

  You made a fool of me.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Like, what was I going through?

• 1:00:33Keke Palmer?

  You loved that song. We used to watch that movie all the time.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:36Keke Palmer?

  And play that one fighting game in your dance room.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Dance Dance Revolution.

• 1:00:40Keke Palmer?

  No, the fighting one.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that was fun.

• 1:00:43Keke Palmer?

  It wasn't like Tekken. It was something else that your dad had. We used to play it a lot.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  I feel like I know what you're talking about, cause I can see the character, but I don't know.

• 1:00:49Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, here we go. This is what I was talking about when Tyler pulled out that damn black car.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Keke Palmer?

  And we was like, damn, what is this?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  You could see it on his smile. He's like, yeah.

• 1:00:57Keke Palmer?

  Exactly. He was looking like Jay-Z too with this look.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  I mean, Hanging with the Players.

• 1:01:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, Hanging with the Players, lol. Yeah, because Taquan always was trying to act like he was a player though. He was. We looked so cute.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 1:01:10Keke Palmer?

  Oh, this is the fourteenth birthday.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, we had an eighties themed birthday badge. That was really fun. Oh, yeah, and I actually feel like that first picture might have been on the cake of the birthday badge. So one of these little pictures, something like that.

• 1:01:23Keke Palmer?

  Cause we always brought that picture back. Oh, these was our first boyfriends.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Oh, hey.

• 1:01:28Keke Palmer?

  First world boyfriend, that's Brandon and Josh.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Hey, Josh and Brandon.

• 1:01:33Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, yes. So this was the guy that Taylor was dating when she was in middle school.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Josh.

• 1:01:39Keke Palmer?

  And on MySpace, you introduced me to his brother, Brandon.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Uh huh. That would go literally on, I was still [BLEEP] around with Josh, you know, until my twenties. On and off, on and off, on and off, until my twenties.

• 1:01:51Keke Palmer?

  That was your bookey butt. I really loved Brandon for a long time too.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you did. You did. Was getting in all kind of trouble. I'll never forget some of the stories.

• 1:01:59Keke Palmer?

  Oh, because then he got, then the industry girls found him and all of a sudden they liked him.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:04Keke Palmer?

  No, y'all do not like him. He don't got nothing for y'all.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:07Keke Palmer?

  They just wanted to be.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  We been hanging out in Pomona.

• 1:02:08Keke Palmer?

  Cause y'all wasn't getting booked on them movie roles. Y'all was mad I was taking them parts.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:14Keke Palmer?

  So y'all tried to take my man.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  This is so funny seeing me like in this little dress and everything. I'm like gay as hell now.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'll still wear a dress or something, but with the tight little body, I'm like, okay, she's giving her.

• 1:02:30Keke Palmer?

  Holly, no, but you always eat down. Today, then, don't matter the look. Oh my gosh, so cute. But we did go through so many phases because what was I, Mary Poppins? Why was I trying to act all sweet and innocent?

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Exactly, because you're like, I got this little boyfriend, but I'm sweet and innocent.

• 1:02:47Keke Palmer?

  Oh yeah, and this was also this. So this was Naim. I remember we tried to get you with Naim.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. I was like getting into it and then I wasn't into it and then I wasn't. But then I ran into him randomly, like in my twenties. I was walking around Howard and, oh yeah, because he went to Howard. Crazy, yeah, that was my little move for a second.

• 1:03:03Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, this was us in the bedroom of Altedina House.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:07Keke Palmer?

  Girl, remember when I used to move Rennie's little bed in there and she would be sleeping in there with me? And then I would get mad, like, Rennie out, you're out now.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  So mean, so mean. And now Rennie is one of us. She's like out here. I'm like, Rennie, now you're being grown.

• 1:03:20Keke Palmer?

  Grown. Okay, now this is really, this was one of my best birthdays of my entire life. You remember when we did Universal City Walk Sleepover? And we made that video, but because YouTube changed the rules, they ripped our video down.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:03:33Keke Palmer?

  Because of all the music we used in it.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, they like copyright.

• 1:03:36Keke Palmer?

  Girl, so this is, that's Crystal, that's Kashan, that's Angelique, that's me, that's you, obviously, that's Maya. Oh my gosh, and then Corinne, baby Corinne. Not so funny because Maya, I met on MySpace. And obviously, like, I didn't go to real school, so I would be having it, I would try to come up with these lies with my mom and be like, yeah, we, we met her at one of the events, like, and so, yeah, like, but I really met her on MySpace and I wanted to hang out with her at the mall. So I was like, Mom, yeah, we met her, you know her family and everything. And then we show up at the mall and we meet for the first time. I was always doing that.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  That is hilarious.

• 1:04:08Keke Palmer?

  Trying to just have friends.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Exactly, just and friends who weren't in the industry. Like regular friends, which is like something like touchy. It's like sometimes you want to, you want to know thy enemy. Sometimes, you know, you wanna know, but sometimes.

• 1:04:22Keke Palmer?

  I feel like this is when we got razor phones.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then the little sidekicks.

• 1:04:27Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, girl. Okay, and then this is the last thing you wrote. It says, "Nothing makes me more happy than to know that I have such a close friend. Know that you're down for me is reassuring. It's the reason I'm always smiling. Love you, Taylor. BFF." And handwriting was everything. Let's just get into that real quick. Because mine looks like chicken scratch.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Oh, crap, I was over here like a little bit of curses, a little bit of... This is so funny, I haven't seen that probably since I gave it to you.

• 1:04:54Keke Palmer?

  Girl, literally. I love you so much, Taylor.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  I love you so much.

• 1:04:57Keke Palmer?

  Thank you for coming on the podcast.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm like, we out here in the building.

• 1:05:02Keke Palmer?

  Come on, look at that, you have got your son, everything.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Baby, this is Keke Palmer, yeah.

• 1:05:09Keke Palmer?

  I love you real bad.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:05:16Keke Palmer?

  Taylor Parks is the real deal. An artist, a boss, and a friend who knows how to pull the truth out of any moment and make it sing. I'm so proud of just Kiki and what we created together. And even prouder of the woman in force Taylor's become. Thank you for sharing your heart, your brilliance, and your Virgo magic with me. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Baby, this is, this is Kiki. Baby, this is Keke Palmer, yeah.

• 1:05:50Keke Palmer?

  Baby, This is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Segal is our post-producer. Our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly Nester. Hillary Esti McLaughlin is our executive producer. Production services provided by Evolution Media. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer. For Team Kiki, my producer is Sharon Palmer. For Wondery, our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Senior managing producer is Nick Ryan. And our executive producers are Emily Feldbrake, Erin O'Flaherty, and Marshall Louie.