The Need For Speed: NASCAR Driver Landon Cassill’s Plant-Based, Triathlon Fueled Success Equation

It's time to explore what it takes to be competitive in one of the most popular professional sports in the United States — NASCAR. Meet Landon Cassill. Driver. Triathlete. Husband. Plant-based. Racing as far back as he can remember, at just 19 years of age Landon burst onto the national scene as the 2008 NASCAR Nationwide Series Rookie of the Year. In 2013, he broke the track record at the famous Gresham Motorsports Park track. Now 25, Landon pilots the #40 Chevrolet SS for the Hillman-Circle Sport LLC team and the #01 Flex Seal Chevrolet for JDMotorsports in the NASCAR Nationwide Series. Beyond Will Ferrell's turn in Talledega Nights, NASCAR (make that auto racing in general) is a world I know close to nothing about. So it was really fun to sit down with Charlotte-based Landon to explore his personal story; the very specific and peculiar culture of NASCAR; what it really takes to professionally toe the line at prestigious races like the Daytona 500; and how diet and triathlon have come to play a crucial role in Landon’s daily success equation. Extremely likable and humble beyond expectation, I think it's fair to say this Iowa-bred young man is a fine living example of solid midwestern values and what can transpire when lifelong passion meets true drive, keen focus and a Malcolm Gladwell-esque 10,000+ hours of very hard work, sweat and determination. This is a great conversation that explores: * the athleticism, skill, technology and funding required to excel as a professional driver; * myth & reality behind NASCAR stereotypes; * the nexus between mindfulness and driving; * how triathlon informs driving performance; * swim training with Olympians Ryan Lochte, Cullen Jones & Tyler Clary; * his decision to go plant-based; * plant-based fueling for athletic performance; * strategies for optimal nutrition when traveling; and * what he drives when not racing (the answer will surprise you) On May 24, Landon will be racing the Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway. After competing in NASCAR's longest and most challenging test of man and machine, Landon will pioneer an entirely new form of endurance multi-sport when he jumps out of his car post-race, laces up his running shoes and tacks on an additional 14 miles for the day with a run from Charlotte Motor Speedway to the NASCAR Hall of Fame. The Cassil 614 will kick off Snap Fitness’s “Snap Serves” summer campaign, which honors those who have served in the military and encourages people around the country to start their fitness journey. Between now and Landon's big day, do me a solid and let's pump him up for this challenge by giving him a supportive shout out on Twitter at @landoncassill. I genuinely hope you enjoy this glimpse into the passionate life of Landon Cassill — my version of Talledega Nights. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  When I started seeing my physical fitness and looking at my athleticism and my performance as a human, not just on the racetrack, and then seeing the difference between eating vegan and eating Chick-fil-A, and just kind of how that was affecting my body, I started to realize the difference between food as a pleasure source and food as a fuel.

• 1:28Rich Roll?

  That's NASCAR driver Landon Castle this week on the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:43Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:47Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show, or welcome back. My name is Rich Roll. I am your friendly neighborhood podcast host, and I am on a mission. And the mission is simple: to help you live and be better. So each week, I sit down with the best and the brightest across all categories of life, health, and excellence to educate, inform, and inspire you to unlock your ultimate potential as a human being in this brief, three-dimensional incarnation that we find ourselves in, so that you can unleash the best, most authentic version of that self on the world at large. So, thanks for sharing a little time with me today. Thank you for subscribing to the show on iTunes, for spreading the word on social media, for subscribing to my newsletter.

• 2:30Rich Roll?

  And for clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Before we get into today's episode, I just wanted to take a quick moment to thank everybody for all the great feedback on last week's show with Tom Harden, AKA Tipper X. I'm really proud of Tom for showing up for that interview, and I'm really proud of how I conducted that interview. And I'm really glad that you guys enjoyed it. And most of all, I really appreciate all the love that everybody sent Tom in anticipation of his 24-hour run, which was just the other day. And I wanted to update you guys. I just got an email from him yesterday, and unfortunately, not everything went according to his plan.

• 3:11Rich Roll?

  The good news is, is that he was in the lead of this race for the first seven hours, but then his Achilles started to flare up, and it started to flare up in a really bad way. And he was basically compelled to drop out of the race at just over 11 hours, just to protect himself from any kind of permanent injury. But no doubt, he will be back soon. And again, thank you for all the support that you guys showed him. Today on the show, we've got Landon Castle. Who's Landon Castle? NASCAR driver, triathlete, and quite surprisingly, you might think, given the very specific culture of NASCAR, a plant-based athlete. So let's run down a couple of things that he has accomplished. He was the 2008 NASCAR

• 3:55Rich Roll?

  Nationwide Series Rookie of the Year. In 2013, Landon broke the track record at the famous Gresham Motorsports Park track. And he currently pilots the number 40 Chevrolet SS for the Hillman Circle Sports LLC team. And on top of that, he also pilots the number one Flex Seal Chevrolet for JD Motorsports in the NASCAR Nationwide Series. So NASCAR, or I guess I should say, car racing in general, is a mysterious world I personally came into this interview knowing very little about. So it was really fun to explore Landon's personal story, the culture of NASCAR, and what it takes to toe the line at races like

• 4:36Rich Roll?

  the Daytona 500, and how diet and triathlon, and specifically, triathlon training, plays into Landon's daily success equation.

• 4:47Rich Roll?

  I found Landon to be a really humble guy, a great guy, an extremely likeable guy. And I think it's fair to say that he is a living example of Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 Hours edict. And at only 24 years of age, 24, this guy's so young, Landon exudes a life led by passion. And he's an example of the amazing things that can happen when that passion meets drive, focus, and many, many years of hard work and determination. A little fun aside, since we sat down for this conversation next weekend on May 24th, Landon's going to be racing the Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway.

• 5:26Rich Roll?

  And as if racing this 600 mile race wasn't enough, or wasn't taxing enough, after completing what is NASCAR's longest race of the season, that same day, right after the race, he's going to tack on an additional 14 mile run. He's going to go from the Charlotte Motor Speedway all the way to the NASCAR Hall of Fame. So I guess you could say he is pioneering a new form of multisport, and I think that's super cool. He asked me to join him, and I so wish that I could fly out there and do it with him. But alas, I'm going to be in Sun Valley for a speaking event, and I couldn't do it. So I'm really hoping that it goes well, and he does it again, so that I can join him in the future. Before we get into it, here's a question.

• 6:08Rich Roll?

  What might you imagine Landon drives around town when not on the track? You're going to have to listen to find out. His answer might surprise you. So let's step into my version of Talledega Nights and sort out the fascinating life of Landon Castle. Yeah, this is super cool for me to talk to you. And we get to delve into a world that I know little, very, very little about, but I'm excited to learn about.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Am I the first NASCAR driver to be on the podcast?

• 6:50Rich Roll?

  Definitely.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  I'm pretty sure I knew that answer already.

• 6:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's for sure. Certainly the first vegan NASCAR driver. You've got to be the only one, right? Is anybody else, well.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  That I know of, yeah, that's, uh, there's another driver in sports car racing named Andy Lally.

• 7:10Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Uh, he's a vegan.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  And there's a female driver in the ARCA series, which is a couple of steps below NASCAR.

• 7:18Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Um, she's a vegan and she makes a big difference.

• 7:21Rich Roll?

  Leilani Mueller?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, Leilani Munter.

• 7:23Rich Roll?

  Munter, that's her name, right. I know, cause she like, didn't she drape her car with Blackfish?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:27Rich Roll?

  When they moved the stuff, I remember that.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, she does a, she does a pretty good job and, and, um, and then, uh, some, some of my training friends that are, that are drivers, I've,

• 7:40Speaker 01

  been able to kind of inspire them to check out their lifestyles and, and eating habits, but, uh, nobody's fully committed.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  But there's a lot of.

• 7:49Rich Roll?

  Publicly, yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a few, um, vegans and, and vegetarians just in the industry, uh, that I really didn't find out until, uh, just like eating at the track and, uh, there's a service and a, a lady that runs what's called the Garlic Garage. And she's inside the garage at the racetrack and she feeds all the race teams. And, uh, and she has a handful of vegan and vegetarian.

• 8:16Rich Roll?

  Does she, she travels to all the races? So it's the same person?

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. So she's got like a trailer and, um, and she's got cooks and grills and all kinds of stuff. And they, and they feed, uh, you know, a bunch of sweaty men and women and workers and.

• 8:33Rich Roll?

  But then she sees you coming, uh, here comes Landon, like she knows what you want and like.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  She does, and she does really well. She's the, the biggest, I mean, she, uh, she takes super good care of me. She, she just has to cook for so many people on a weekend that like, for me to be like, um, I'm plant-based. So, you know, I don't eat that, you know, but she's, she's, uh, the, the, the thing that really helps me out the most and, and like my wife and I. When my wife became vegetarian, um, like eight years ago, she, my wife Katie is sitting here with us and um, she's a, she's been vegetarian for eight years.

• 9:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  So, um, she, her biggest thing was like, I'm not gonna be a pain in the butt vegetarian. I'm not gonna sit at, at an Applebee's, you know, and

• 9:20Rich Roll?

  Annoy everybody.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Annoy everybody. And so I kind of adopted that myself as well, like when I, especially in the environment that I'm in and the people that I work with. It's like, I'm not gonna drive my, my peers crazy. So Jackie at the Garlic Garage is, helps me out a lot with that just because she focuses on buying like organic foods and she's really good at like making quinoa salads, like the easy stuff. You know, hummus and things that like, if I just gotta eat at the track, I don't have to worry about like, hey, did you make some super food?

• 9:52Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Put, what'd you put in that? You know, I don't really have to worry about that. Usually if there's a quinoa salad or something, I can, that'll hold me over till I get back to the

• 10:00Rich Roll?

  There's always like strategies, you know, for that, like to be discreet. So you don't have to be that person who's paid in the end. Like you could pull her aside and slip her, you know, a couple twenties or whatever, every other week or whatever, just to keep it on the down low. And you know, like make sure that she's taking care of you.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. She, she does good. I mean, it's, when we've had, we, obviously I've, I've been, so I've, I've been vegan for a little over a year now. And um, and so I've been eating with her at the track for a little over a year and, and I would say it took eight months of like, oh, that looks really good. What's in it? You know, oh, you're really gonna like it. It's vegetarian, you know, it's feta and hmm, I might skip the feta today. Is there anything else, you know? And so it's like, it took a long time of that and now she kinda

• 10:50Rich Roll?

  For her to like wrap her brain around what it is exactly that you're driving on.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  And like I said, she cooks for so many people and she makes so many different dishes and they've got chickens and sandwiches and other, all kinds of stuff that they're making for guys that it's like, I just try to come in and be like, hey, you got anything, got anything good for me today?

• 11:06Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  And um, it's all good.

• 11:07Rich Roll?

  So what uh, so you've been doing this for a year. I mean, what inspired you to check out this way of eating and living and everything?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Um, so like I said, my wife has been vegetarian for eight years and we had always kinda talked about, well, I say we, she, she had talked about always Thinking about going vegan and and and kind of cutting out those last two and she knows she didn't really drink milk or anything like that. We never had milk in the house and and and we got to the point that um when we first got married. She was pretty much cooking vegan in the house. We just weren't eating that way outside the house, you know, and then me certainly not.

• 11:49Rich Roll?

  Like you married a NASCAR driver. You know that, right? You know, I got a reputation. I gotta be seen with my Mountain Dew.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Right. So we um we got married in December of two thousand and twelve. And and I we were talking about it earlier today, and I think our our plant-based kickoff was Super Bowl of two thousand and thirteen, which is kind of funny because um that's become a tradition for us was like we have a big old vegan Super Bowl party to ourselves. So far, we've had three years of a we've had three Super Bowls together. Three.

• 12:26Rich Roll?

  Two.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Two, thirteen, twelve.

• 12:29Rich Roll?

  I disagree.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Thirteen, fourteen.

• 12:31Rich Roll?

  Young married couple.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen. We've had three Super Bowl parties together and two people at each Super Bowl party.

• 12:39Rich Roll?

  Right, like no comers, like you're inviting a lot of people. They're just like, yeah.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  That's just us.

• 12:44Rich Roll?

  No chicken wings?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, we've got cauliflower buffalo wings. But um so it started out with a big vegan Super Bowl party and um she's just always cooked vegan and um two thousand and thirteen, fourteen, or two thousand and thirteen, you know, was eating vegan at home. And but not like on my side of it personally, not no interest in plant-based diet, really no knowledge of it, just like that's how I eat at home. And fortunately, I'm a pretty flexible, like non not very picky eater and and she's a great cook, so I just loved it.

• 13:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  But I, you know, go on the road and I mean, my favorite thing in the world is Chick-fil-A, like Chick-fil-A sandwich like that's just, you know, so delicious, right? And so uh towards the end of two thousand and fourteen. Uh, or 2013, I'm sorry, I get my years mixed up.

• 13:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Um, I was, you know, just, we were racing and I, I drive for small race teams and we struggle. I mean, our teams don't have a lot of money. We don't have a lot of resources. You know, it's hard to compete with teams like Jimmy Johnson's who spend a million a week, right? We spend a hundred thousand a week.

• 13:54Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 13:55Rich Roll?

  Sounds like a lot to me, though.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Right. It's a, it is a lot, but it's, and, and NASCAR, I mean, the more employees and more people, the better your car can run. And, uh, I just got to that end of the year and, and, um, it was kinda, you know, Jimmy Johnson won his sixth championship out of the last seven years and, and, uh, I kinda looked myself in the mirror and was like, am I doing all I can as an athlete? And, um, and I, I couldn't say yes to that.

• 14:27Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Couldn't, couldn't tell myself that I was being the best race car driver I could be for my team, for myself. And so the first inspiration was, you know, my fitness and what kind of athlete am I?

• 14:40Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  And, um, and I'd always kinda worked out, tried to stay in shape, uh, but not, was never in, never committed to it for my job.

• 14:51Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  And, uh, and my dad at the time was doing duathlons and running a lot, which is really funny. You know, my dad's, turns 50 this year.

• 15:01Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  So, you know, he, he was always kinda.

• 15:02Rich Roll?

  He's like my age.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Right. He's always like kinda pushing me. And, um, and, and so I, I, I made a commitment to, to, uh, that, that I, well, it wasn't even a commitment. I had to, you know, I needed to invest in myself, in my career. And so I started working out and, and at that point, when I started seeing my physical fitness and looking at my athleticism and my performance as a human, not just on the racetrack. And then seeing the difference between eating vegan, a home-cooked meal from my wife, and eating Chick-fil-A, and just kind of how that was affecting my body, I started to realize the difference between food as a pleasure source and food as a fuel.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  And, and actually, that's when I picked up your book.

• 15:50Rich Roll?

  Oh, cool. That's cool.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:53Rich Roll?

  Interesting. Yeah, I mean, it's, it is kind of a elementary thing, but also a revelatory thing. It's like, oh, no duh, you know what I mean? But then when you actually experience it, you're like, oh, wow, like, this whole world kind of opens up to you.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, and it's, the, for me, the, if I had to sum just everything up, athletic performance and, and food and, and whatever it may be, it's, it's about fuel and how you fuel your body.

• 16:20Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  And, and you really, I mean, if you, if you want to put yourself on the edge as an athlete, like I do, you know, when, in a race car and training for triathlon, you have to be treating the food that's going in your body as, as rocket fuel.

• 16:37Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  And you can't be putting garbage in your body and expecting rocket results.

• 16:42Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  And, and for me, it was like, one step was, you know, eating cleaner, right? But, but then, but then I'm doing homework and I'm just like, you know, the meats and the, the animal protein that's going in my body isn't, is kind of counteracting some of the things that, that I'm trying to accomplish here. And so, so we, we decided in early 2014 to just try it, you know, and it was easy for her. She was most of the way there, just not, you know, we, we were wine and cheese people and

• 17:17Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Things like that, but it was kind of like, hey, let's actually, let's actually go for this and, and see what happens.

• 17:23Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  And I was reading books and doing my homework, reading, read

• 17:29Speaker 01

  You know, you to run in Brendan Brazer's book.

• 17:31Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Read your book and it was just like, man, there's a lot of people out here that are that have legitimate stories that are, you know, and, and, and just, just doing, doing the homework and like, it kind of reached a point where the only thing left to do was to try it ourselves.

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  Right. And so you jumped in. I mean, was it a hard, was it hard? I mean, what was hard, like getting, what was the hardest part for you making the switch?

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Um, the, so I've got the same experience that a lot of people probably have where it's like, oh, man, the first week was amazing. The second week was, you know, it was tough, right? The third week was struggle, man.

• 18:08Rich Roll?

  The pink cloud.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. And, and so like, I definitely have that, but the, the unique thing in my experience was week two for me, I started traveling and I had, not only was I new to eating a plant-based diet, I was going to strange places.

• 18:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's making it super hard all of a sudden, like right off the bat.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  The, the first week was easy, you know, my wife was making smoothies. I mean, gosh, this was beautiful. It's a honeymoon stage for us. I mean, my run, my, I mean, instant results as an athlete, recovery. I mean, especially when you go from what I was doing, you know, eating just completely as a pleasure source, um, to a plant-based diet. So I started traveling and it was like, I mean, my, my first trip was in Daytona, Daytona Beach, Florida.

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Right? You know, plant-based central, just a mecca of plant-based meals and everything. Now I, I had a, I had a trip to Daytona Beach, Florida for three days and I'm pretty sure I didn't eat for a day.

• 19:17Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Just because I was so determined and I was so committed, but yet there was nothing, I didn't know what to do, you know, it wasn't, so I just, I just didn't eat for the day because I was eating almonds, you know, I'm just like eating raw almonds, like this is and a banana, like that's all I could think of.

• 19:34Rich Roll?

  Get some crappy salad or get like a pasta dish or something like that. That's about the best you're gonna be able to do.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Well, the other, the other funny thing about the first, especially the first six months, like not only were we, was I on board, it was like. Well, I wanna say first, I can't remember how long, but I'm looking at my wife right now and she's she doesn't know what I'm about to say. Like, the first part of it was like, you know, raw, plant-based, like, as clean as it gets, right? Like, I had pretty high standards for myself at the beginning. And that's, that's tough.

• 20:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, it's, that's a hard thing to do. So, I mean, we went to Daytona and, and I found a little health food store um called Loves Whole Foods. And there's two of them in Daytona. And, I mean, I pretty much lived there.

• 20:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  And they had little pre-made stuff. And, and that was kind of my intro to like these grocery stores and what they carry and, and, and what you can buy. And then, and then for me, just what gets me through the day, you know, my first trip was like, oh, man, this is awesome. I got a few things here, you know? And I eat them and I'm hungry two hours later.

• 20:39Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  So, so then I'm, you know, I'm going through this stage in the first couple of months of, okay, do I need to be like counting calories? Do I need to be measuring things? And um

• 20:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and you really can't afford to be off. Like, you're racing and you've got to be at your peak.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:55Rich Roll?

  You know, you can't afford to not eat or, you know, go eat something crappy.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:58Rich Roll?

  And you're trying to balance all of these things. I mean, you know, that makes it very different from somebody who's working a nine-to-five job, going home every night.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:06Rich Roll?

  And you're freewheeling it and you're brand new to it.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Right, you can check out a day of work or something. And, and, and that's a, I mean, that's a great point because it, that kind of segues into our first real experience. So, that, that first three-day deal was, was our preseason thunder, our, our, our spring training, so to speak, in Daytona. And then we come back two weeks later to Daytona for the real thing, for the Daytona 500. And um, and so like, I felt like as a, you know, fueling my body and learning the traveling ropes of being plant-based, I failed. You know, like, I was going to Smoothie King and basically cutting out everything in their smoothie and just getting the fruit mixed up. And so, uh, we came back to Daytona and, and I had to qualify my car into the Daytona 500. I had to race my way in.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  And I was trying to kind of hold myself to this new standard, this lifestyle that we really wanted and, and And and how's, you know, just gonna be cleaner and be healthier. And and so it was, we we did really well while we were down there and did the right amount of grocery shop shopping. And by then I had kind of figured out that like, I'm not a measuring person. I'm not a counter. I'm not, you know, carbs this and protein that like, I kind of, I was a month and a half into it and I could actually kind of eat by feel. And and I think that's an important thing. I kind of tell a lot of people that that that ask me, you know, like, okay, so how much protein do you get? Or how much this and that do you get? And for me, it's like, I just learned what I need,

• 22:38Speaker 01

  you know, and I know that before a workout, I'm not gonna eat, you know, a giant almond butter. Whatever, you know, I'm not gonna make a huge oatmeal smoothie with, you know, peanut butter and everything before workout. I know the fruits and the the sugars I might need before and the protein and the carbs and whatever it may be.

• 23:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that that's an important point, you know, when you're beginning and also throughout, like, it has to be sustainable, you know, you've got to learn how your body reacts to certain things. And when people ask me about ratios and stuff like that, I'm like, I don't know, I just eat really clean as most as as best as I can, as often as I can. And, you know, nature kind of takes care of it, the rest of it. Because if I get into over analyzing everything and measuring and all that kind of stuff, like, I'm gonna burn out. Like, I can't do that for every meal all the time, every day.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, and you really, um, you really have to listen, like, you have to listen to your body. And that sounded, it's such a like buzzword thing to say. But but your your body will tell you if you if you pay attention to what you eat and how it makes you feel, like, your body will tell you over time what you want and what it wants. And and like I said, I mean, I know the things finally, especially a year later, if whether it's a run or a bike ride or swim and or or or a race in my race car, I mean, I know what my body needs now and so I can kind of feed it that fuel.

• 24:14Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  And I don't have to worry about it.

• 24:17Rich Roll?

  So how did that, how did that Daytona go for you?

• 24:19Speaker 01

  It went well. It was actually one of the best ones for us. I was properly fueled up and, and I had my wife down there with me that time too. Maybe that was why I was properly fueled up. Cause I did the first trip by myself and, and I made the Daytona 500 with a team that had no sponsorship.

• 24:38Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  And we had no like locked in pedigree to get into the Daytona 500. We had to race our way in.

• 24:44Rich Roll?

  So explain how that works. Like I wanna, I wanna kinda, in a minute, I wanna get into kind of like the whole NASCAR culture and all of that. But like, what does that mean? You had to race your way in?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  So pretty much all the races, but especially the Daytona 500, which is our first race of the season and it's the most prestigious race. There's more cars show up than are gonna get to race. And NASCAR has a sort of points pedigree, similar to like a franchising system. For 36 ish, 35 ish of the cars of the 43 car field. So those last seven spots are open for kind of an at-large type of position. And so the goal of, you know, if you were to start a race team tomorrow, your goal would be to get one of those at-large positions. But you gotta earn it in every race.

• 25:35Rich Roll?

  Right. So how do you earn that? You just race a bunch of other races?

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Well, you gotta qualify at that specific race. And a lot of, in a lot of races, your entire company relies on how your driver does in one qualifying lap. And in Daytona, it's through a qualifying race. So the goal as a, as a startup race team is to, okay, let's get into Daytona. If we can make Daytona, we run well, if we can get ourselves high enough in the points, we can be in that top, you know, section of, of teams. But there's no set franchise. There's nobody's in there for life.

• 26:07Rich Roll?

  Gotcha.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  So. We were, at the time, we had no pedigree. We had no, we had nothing. And so we raced our way in and we finished 12th in the Daytona 500.

• 26:16Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  We made like $350,000.

• 26:19Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  You know, it's a huge payday for the team.

• 26:22Rich Roll?

  That's crazy.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  And it kickstarted our year.

• 26:25Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. That's really exciting. That's cool. So, let's take it back a little bit. You know, racing is something you've been doing your whole life. Like you were, I mean, according to Wikipedia, you're like, winning races when you're three years old.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:39Rich Roll?

  So, you know, you've put in your Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours. I mean, this is not something you decided, you know, at age 20, you wanted to get into. Like, this is running through your blood, like, from probably as far back as you can remember in your life.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I read his book, and she read his book first, and gave it to me, and I read it. And The Outliers, right?

• 27:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Is that what it's called?

• 27:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  And when I read that, and let's, read about him talking about 10,000 hours, and that's how long it takes to be an expert at something, is, it was actually a time in my career where Katie and I were dating, and it was tough. And I was like, it was kind of a confidence booster for me, to think about how long I had been racing. Because I was struggling at the time, like, man, am I supposed to be doing this? I'm not doing too well in racing. You know, NASCAR is pretty hard on me right now. And then I realized, man, I've put in my 10,000 hours. I am an expert at this, and I can do this. And...

• 27:36Rich Roll?

  And you're, I mean, what are you, 24?

• 27:38Speaker 01

  I'm 25.

• 27:39Rich Roll?

  You're 25 years old. Like, is there anybody younger than you in NASCAR?

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 27:43Rich Roll?

  Are there?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, there definitely are. In fact, I'm kind of one of the veterans right now.

• 27:47Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 27:47Speaker 01

  But I started, I definitely started young. So, going back, so my background, like, I started at a young age. I'm from Iowa. I grew up in a car dealer family, you know, selling used cars and...

• 27:59Rich Roll?

  So, a bunch of gearheads.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, a bunch of gearheads. My dad's a gearhead, and...

• 28:05Rich Roll?

  I mean, like fixing old cars on the weekend and that kind of thing?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Pretty much, yeah. And my dad's...

• 28:09Rich Roll?

  It's like right out of a movie.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  It really is. And we didn't like, you know, my dad didn't grow up racing stock cars or anything on oval tracks, but he drag raced and was a car guy and, and just from a young age, I loved NASCAR. I loved racing and so my parents kind of got me into go-karts. Well, they got me into four-wheelers and we rode them on weekends together, but then got me into go-karts and started racing competitively.

• 28:34Rich Roll?

  Right. And your dad psyched, right? Cause he's already into this kind of thing.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And he was, uh, he was, my dad's a really good leader and he's a really good kind of opening the door and turning the light on, you know, and kind of, but not pushing you in type thing. And, um, and so I, I moved into go-karts and, and, you know, my dad taught me to work on them and to build them. And, and his rule was, you know, if you wreck it, you have to fix it. You know, he, he helped prepare them and things like that, but if I wrecked it, I always had to fix it. So that kind of, that kind of was ingrained in me early on and, and I, and through that I learned how to build my cars and moved up to full-size stock cars where we were racing around the country and traveling on.

• 29:22Rich Roll?

  How old were you when that was going on?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Um, I was like 13, 14.

• 29:26Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:28Rich Roll?

  So traveling around like out of school and like racing cars instead.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, missed a lot of school.

• 29:31Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:33Rich Roll?

  And, and that's gotta be, I mean, is that usual that like the, the, the drivers like know that much about how to, how to build the engines and all that kind of stuff? Or are you unusual in that?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Um, no, I mean, it's, it's probably 50/50. It really depends on your background. I mean, there's a lot of drivers coming up that have really good resources behind them and, and, and racing like the late model racing, when I say late model, that's like full-size stock cars, but at a grassroots level. Um, and that's where we were traveling the country with a truck and trailer and, and racing and, and really hitting big money events, like just trying to, trying to win 10 grand. You're trying to, trying to win this, this, you know, famous race.

• 30:13Rich Roll?

  These are like, and it, you gotta, I mean, it's expensive to do this, right? Like, how are you like pulling it together to get the trailer and like all that? I mean, it's like not a, like if you're in, you gotta be in all the way.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you do. And that's where, so like to do what we were doing in those races now, I mean, there's, it's really competitive and you have to have. A team behind you. So, so what, what we were accomplishing then was, you know, me and my dad and, and we had some volunteers that helped us and, and then once it got really serious and we had some sponsorship and we actually hired a guy, we paid him 25,000 a year.

• 30:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  And he, he was my crew chief, right? Helped me build the race cars. And, um, you know, that, that, that was a tough thing to do back then. We didn't win all the races. I mean, we weren't the biggest team. We didn't have the best stuff, but, but somehow I caught the eye of, of, well, first of all, an agent when I was 15.

• 31:06Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Wow.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  And he was kind of a talent scout at the time, was representing some big drivers and, and, um, and he got me in front of the right people.

• 31:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  To get an opportunity eventually with Hendrick Motorsports, which is like the New York Yankees of.

• 31:21Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Of NASCAR.

• 31:22Rich Roll?

  It's like, I see something in this kid.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:24Rich Roll?

  This kid's got the goods. He's bringing the heat.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much.

• 31:27Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  And, um, and a lot of that, a- at the end of the day, a lot of that opportunity, a lot of that allure comes from knowing my race car, building it, working on it, like, you know, they, they liked to see me win races, but to win races in my car, and they all knew what I, you know, the scouts out there, the people that are paying attention to young drivers, they knew what I had. They knew what I was working with. And I didn't, you know, I wasn't in under, you know, I wasn't in like bottom end equipment. I had good stuff, but I had to put it together myself.

• 31:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  And, um, they knew what we had and that had played a big part of it. So I got this opportunity to be in front of GM Racing and Chevrolet.

• 32:08Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Against a bunch of other drivers. And, and I did really well in that event and got a contract offer from Hendrick Motorsports.

• 32:17Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  And, uh, and the offer from Hendrick was to be Jimmy Johnson's test driver.

• 32:22Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  And you're 16 at this time or something?

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, I was just turning 17, yeah. And so I moved to North Carolina.

• 32:30Rich Roll?

  You're like technically not even supposed to be driving a car at all.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  I know. And, and I, um.

• 32:35Rich Roll?

  Are you, by the way, are you like, when you're 14, are you driving on the street, like illegally? Like.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:40Rich Roll?

  You're racing cars. You're not allowed to drive on the road.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I got my license the regular way like everybody else did. I sat through driver's ed and, and failed my, um, my test the first time and.

• 32:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Passed it the second time and. The same way everybody else.

• 32:55Rich Roll?

  Failed the test the first time.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. But, um, but I moved to North Carolina from Iowa when I was, uh, 17. I finished high school early. And my grandmother and I moved down together.

• 33:07Rich Roll?

  To Charlotte.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  To Charlotte, yeah.

• 33:08Rich Roll?

  That's like, that's like racing Mecca, right?

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty much where you have to be.

• 33:12Rich Roll?

  You gotta go there.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  It's like, like having to move to Hollywood or something if you want to be an actor.

• 33:16Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And so from there, when, when does NASCAR come into the picture?

• 33:21Speaker 01

  So right then and there, um, I was, I was working for Hendrick Motorsports. I was young and was getting paid to drive race cars for a living and I was Jimmy Johnson's test driver.

• 33:32Rich Roll?

  Right. So, so what does that entail? I mean, you get in, you drive the car around before he gets in it and say, work on this. This isn't, this doesn't feel right or?

• 33:40Speaker 01

  There's a lot, um, there's a lot of scenarios there. A lot of it had to do with the rules that NASCAR has around, um, their testing. Cause you, you know, in NASCAR, you can't just take the car to the racetrack. It's against the rules. You have to kind of get creative. You have to take it to other race tracks. At the time, the, the rules have changed since then. But at that time, you could kind of take it to some tracks, uh, with a unlicensed driver, but you couldn't take your primary driver to certain tracks. And, um, conveniently for me, which I love telling people this, my driving style is very similar to Jimmy Johnson's, which is a nice thing to say when, you know, he's probably the greatest driver.

• 34:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  To ever walk the earth and he's still racing, right? Um, so my driving style was very similar to Jimmy's. So I kind of fit right into his car.

• 34:23Rich Roll?

  What is that style?

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Um, like technically in the car, we're both very smooth with the throttle. We're not like jamming the gas, you know, you're not going to hear pounding and shifting gears and just, um, slamming on the brakes into the corner. We're very smooth. We, we drive, a, a term you could use is like we drive the throttle with the pedals rather than the steering wheel. So we kind of keep the steering wheel straight and, and let the car steer itself. Um, so.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Because of that similarity, my feedback is similar to his. So when I feel in a car, he'll also feel.

• 34:58Rich Roll?

  Right, it's a good fit.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  So there, I mean, I did a ton of different types of tests, but in the general scheme of things, I could take like a list of 100 things that the crew chief might want to see. They've got 100 ideas that might make their car go faster. And I can narrow it down to 10 and then give it to them and say, okay, all those other 90 things were garbage, but these 10 you guys need to try. And then from that point, Jimmy could, Jimmy and his crew chief Chad could figure out what the best things worked for them.

• 35:34Rich Roll?

  And how did Jimmy like treat you?

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Um.

• 35:37Rich Roll?

  What was that interaction like?

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Good, good. And he's actually still a friend. He's also a triathlete, so.

• 35:43Rich Roll?

  Oh, he is cool.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  So we do train together and things like that. But he, he's really good. Jimmy's a really, really good guy and he would treat anybody well. But we seemed to, we worked together well. And like I said, our feedback was good. And, and there was a lot of times that, that I could kind of, I definitely learned from him. And, and being that my driving style started similar to his, like after working with him and being able to watch him, it probably adapted even more. So.

• 36:15Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. And what an amazing experience for you to go from what you were doing and literally be inserted right into the middle of probably the best, most well-oiled, you know, highly funded, best equipment, best crews, like across the board and to be able to observe and learn from, from all of that.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, at the time, like you said, they, I mean, they, and they still are, they're still one of the best funded teams. And, and I had, you know, within that team, I had my own engineer that worked on like our projects when we went testing. And, and it was pretty cool. Like I was able to kind of, that was my resume builder. Cause there's a lot of young drivers at the time that were getting chances to race and other things. And I wasn't racing as much. I was testing more and kind of running part-time race schedules, which was a good and bad thing for my career. I mean, on the bad side of it. If I were just racing my own car, I mean, man, that's, you know, how can you replace that?

• 37:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Uh, that opportunity and I could have had a chance at winning races and really showing people what I can do. But I was, uh, the, the good side of what I was doing was, um,

• 37:23Rich Roll?

  Apprenticing with the best.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  I was apprenticing, yeah. And, and I had this resume that I, that when it was time for me to pursue racing opportunities, because obviously I didn't want to be a test driver forever.

• 37:34Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Um, I was able to go to these small, struggling race teams that, um, that had no pedigree, that couldn't get their cars into the race. They, they would show up at the track with their employees and all their, you know, they're bedding the farm on one qualifying lap.

• 37:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  And couldn't go fast enough to get in.

• 37:53Rich Roll?

  (laughing).

• 37:54Speaker 01

  And so I was able to go to these teams and say like, you know, I don't know if I can do it or not, but look at this is what I've been doing for the last five years. And, um, and it started out, there was a team that had, had DNQ'd for the last six weeks in a row and they put me in the car and we never missed a race for the rest of the year.

• 38:12Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  And, uh, and it saved, it saved their company. I mean, it kept them from going out of business.

• 38:16Rich Roll?

  Right. That's amazing. So that was how you just inserted yourself into the driver's seat and started

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:22Rich Roll?

  moving on and growing from there.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  And it was really, um, it was kind of an interesting route for me because I, uh, you know, young drivers like myself always picture ourselves, you know, showing up as the hot rookie and winning our first race and kissing the trophy girl and, you know, taking all the sponsors home with them, right? And, you know, and just making all the money, right? And, uh, and I kind of showed up and, you know, was driving for these small sprint cup teams with no sponsors. We didn't have any money. They didn't, you know, the, and, and the, the job wasn't to go win the race. The job wasn't, you know, we, we, in fact, we knew we couldn't win the race. You're going to the racetrack knowing you can't win the race. You're not going to win the race. Our goal was to make the race.

• 39:03Rich Roll?

  Because the equipment is just not, it's just not going to happen with what you're living with.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  It's just not going to happen. Yeah. I mean, in, in a lot of cases, um, I've started races knowing we couldn't make it to the end of the race, let alone win the race. Our goal was to make the race and get last place prize money so that we could pay our overhead. Like that.

• 39:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, that's a reality check on like what it's like to really be just like a yeoman driver.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of a journeyman story a little bit. And but but what really worked for me and what built my foundation and in my career as a race car driver. When I when I actually became a professional race car driver, wasn't when I was 17, it wasn't when I was 18. I won the Rookie of the Year in the in the Nationwide Series when I was 18.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  You know, I was getting paid to to drive cars and that's how I made my living. But I became a professional race car driver around 2010 and 11 when when I had to drive for small teams that relied on my performance and and relied on my communication with the team to to put together a fast car and get into the race and pay our bills.

• 40:14Rich Roll?

  Right. And so tell me how it how it works with these teams. I mean, basically, it's all driven by getting sponsors, right, who can fund these teams? And, you know, what is the difference between, you know, what Jimmy Johnson has going on with, you know, just kind of like one of those teams that's struggling? Like, it's just sponsor dollars? And what do those dollars buy that gets you on par, you know, at least with respect to your crew and the car that you're driving?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  So, really, I mean, it's you're right. It's it's very sponsor driven to get the performance you need. I mean, and we have and we're not, I mean, we're not just all walking around with our hands out going, well, we can't win until we get sponsors, you know, we need a sponsor. Like, we actually do have a product that's valuable to sponsors. And and it's but it's difficult to sell that. I mean, it's a sales job.

• 41:00Rich Roll?

  Because of the visibility at all these races.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  You know, the better you do, the more you see, the more you get seen, the more you can offer your sponsors, things like that. So so there's a chicken or the egg type thing of like how you're going to,

• 41:14Speaker 01

  you know, sell these deals and how you create value. But, you know, you look at a team like Hendrick Motorsports and Jimmy Johnson's team, who probably, you know, spends a million a week, you know, there's there is there's been been documents out there and things with other teams that, you know, a lot of industry people know what are these teams' budgets are and and, you know, that 4018 probably operates on a 30 to 50 million dollar budget. Could be anywhere from there.

• 41:41Rich Roll?

  And where does that where does that money go that translates into speed? Like, what's the difference between, you know, the cars?

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Um, it's.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  I mean, people and just you're you're it's a manufacturing company at that point. At the at the level of Hendrick Motorsports, it's a manufacturing company. I mean, they're they've got 600 employees and they're it's just every ounce and every millimeter in those cars makes a difference, especially when you can pour that much into it. I mean, they're at the wind tunnel every day.

• 42:15Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  They have their own carbon fiber shop where they're building anything you want out of carbon try carbon fiber. The crew chief calls and says, hey, there's a component on my car that's aluminum that doesn't need to be aluminum. It needs to be carbon fiber.

• 42:31Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  They can make it, you know, and it makes it that much lighter.

• 42:35Rich Roll?

  But once the car is dialed in, isn't that the car? Why doesn't why does it, you know, like, why does it keep going? You know what I mean?

• 42:42Speaker 01

  It's crazy like it's so it's so hard to imagine, but like all those things kind of just add up and just make a faster car. And and and you do, you still have to go to the racetrack and dial them in. And that's where like, OK, so so, OK, so we've built this fancy car out of carbon fiber and, you know, and all the lightweight components. And there's 50 guys that built it and they just, you know, they massaged every corner and it's been in the wind tunnel. You still have to dial it in, right? Well, they've got an engineering department and they have written their own computer simulation software that can track every movement of the suspension.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  And before they even unload the car off the trailer, they've spent hours on the simulation software, running laps on the racetrack. And they'll type in a setup, right? You know, springs and shocks and suspension geometry and everything. And they'll hit enter and it'll make a lap and it'll tell you how fast it went. It'll tell you what it handled like. It'll tell you. You know, it it'll tell you all the optimal arrow positions of the body and everything. And if it wasn't good enough, well, I mean, it's never good enough.

• 43:56Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  They're gonna make an adjustment and they'll just keep working on it and they'll find trends in the setup and all those things. To where finally, when it comes to Friday, when we're ready to practice and qualify. They've worked on their car for hours, you know, days and weeks.

• 44:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Just getting to that unloading setup.

• 44:15Rich Roll?

  That's amazing. I feel like if you channeled that, all that brain power. Towards into like NASA or something like that, we'd all be living on Mars. You know what I mean? Like, that's really amazing. So how do you like get into the right frame of mind to race? You know, getting in a car that's obviously, I'm sure you're racing an unbelievable car and you've got, you know, incredibly skilled, devoted, dedicated people working with you, but knowing like, maybe you don't have that, you know, but you still gotta get your head in the game and you're racing.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, so a big part of my kind of life transformation in the last couple of years has has included that thought process. Cause there was a point, especially like in that 2010, 2011, I was driving for these small teams. I was making races. But I was looking at the greener grass. Like it was, man, if we could just have that sponsor.

• 45:06Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  You know, if I could just drive that guy's car, he's not even as good of a driver as me.

• 45:11Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  You know, or if I could just have the in, in.

• 45:14Rich Roll?

  But none of that's productive. None of that is helping you be a better driver.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  It's not, and it's not proving, I realized, I got to a point where it's like, I'm not proving to Roger Penske or Rick Hendrick that I'm a superior driver or person by looking at the greener grass of what I don't have.

• 45:32Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  And, um, and I kind of set a goal for myself, starting in 2013, that is like, you know what? I, I wanna show myself, but I wanna show this industry what I can build. You know, and what I can be a part of. And, and I kind of felt like, you know what? If I get a, an opportunity to drive the, the Lowe's car, you know, or the Home Depot car, or those, you know, those well-funded cars, then so be it. But I want those, I, I want people to look at me 10 years down the road and say, wow, look what he built. You know, look what he was a part of. And, uh, and that was, that was when I started with the team that I'm with now, which is Hillman Racing.

• 46:10Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  And when we started together and like, I told you, we had no pedigree, we had nothing, right? It was, we had one race car, the owner of the team, myself and two employees.

• 46:21Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  And.

• 46:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like the Bad News Bears.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And we went to, so 2014 was when that whole Daytona thing. In 2013, somebody ran Daytona with our like kind of program, but then our first official race together was on the west coast and we had a west coast swing. We had Phoenix and then Fontana. So we went 3,000 miles from North Carolina to Phoenix with one race car. Like if we crashed it in Phoenix, we could do the next race.

• 46:49Rich Roll?

  Right, right. I mean, how many, how many cars do these other teams have?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  I mean, 20. They're building them every day. I mean.

• 46:56Rich Roll?

  Oh, I didn't know that. Wow.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  At, at a company like Hendrick, I mean, so we'd go down a path of like building them light and all that stuff. Like they're building these cars so light and so sleek that they only race them once or twice and then they throw them away and build another one.

• 47:11Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  They'll throw them away. I mean, they, they rebuild them or they'll sell them or whatever.

• 47:15Rich Roll?

  And when they go from race to race, we're talking about like fleets of 18 wheelers.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're, they're, they're taking them and they're loading them up with a primary and a backup. So we went out there with one car and we had to use that one car for the first like four races of the year until we could generate enough money from our prize money. Cause we didn't have any sponsorship at the time. We were able to generate enough money from our prize money to buy us another car. And so we bought another car. So now we had two cars.

• 47:41Rich Roll?

  Bootstrapping the whole thing.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  So now we had two cars. So we're like, we're doing good now. And, and so we just kind of like built, you know, as a company together and that was, that was my, my goal as a driver was like, I'm tired of trying to be the best race car driver in the world. Like, you know, I'm tired of looking at the greener grass. I want to see what I can build.

• 48:03Rich Roll?

  Well, that's laudable and I think that that must give you. A tremendous sense of pride because, you know, rather than just plopping into the driver's seat into a machine that's already fully ramped up and just driving the car, you're part of something, you know, that that wasn't that now is, which is pretty cool.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  And it's mine. It's mine. It's part of it's part of me, it's part of my team, it's ours, you know, like that's, you know, the hard part is I could sit here all day and say, man, I just wish if I could, if I was in Jimmy Johnson's car, right? Like you'd say that all you want, but.

• 48:40Rich Roll?

  Well, everybody except Jimmy Johnson can say that. Every other guy.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. But but you look at you look at the situations and just the at the caliber that they operate. I I could be better driver than Jimmy Johnson, but I still probably couldn't get in Jimmy Johnson's car tomorrow and do as good as he's doing because it's his team. It's his, those are his guys. He's been with them for 15 years, you know? And so it was like I I kind of reached a point where I was like, man, as much as great as that would be, I don't even know if I want to be plucked into somebody else's deal. You know, it's it's like I.

• 49:20Rich Roll?

  Just build your own thing and grow and grow into that.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Something I can be proud of, you know?

• 49:25Rich Roll?

  So what do you think it is that what what distinguishes like an average driver from a great race car driver? I mean, what is it that, you know, makes Jimmy Johnson great? Other than the car, I'm just talking about the actual skill set of driving.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  It's it's really, um, it's kind of a quarter by quarterback like atmosphere, you know, it's the just the overall leadership and and how you conduct yourself, how you handle yourself and and the mental game of it. That's why Jimmy Johnson is who he is. He's got the mental side of it just so in tune. I mean.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  He doesn't blow up. You know, there's, there's, there's a lot of drivers that have all the talent in the world, but they can't handle, you know, the high pressure situations and they got their crew chief in their ear and they got their spotter in the air telling them to pit now, no wait, pit next lap and just, you know, pick it up, you know, and it is, they blow up and then they, then they come in and they have a bad pit stop when they're leading and they come out in third place. Oh, that's so terrible. Right?

• 50:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Oh, it just, they'll melt down for the whole, for the rest of the race. They'll, they'll, you know, they'll, they'll throw away a chance at a win just because they had one setback. Jimmy Johnson doesn't do that, you know, and, and there's a lot of guys that, that don't do that. They have the mental clarity and they have the leadership to get out of the car after a bad day and the microphone's in your face and what happened out there and say, my pit crew sucks. You know, no, it's, hey, we had a rough day. It doesn't, can't win them all, you know, and, and it's that ability to kind of put all that together.

• 51:03Rich Roll?

  And so much of that is not what's happening when you're behind the wheel, right?

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 51:07Rich Roll?

  It's like how you're sort of, you know, handling all the people that work underneath you and the day in, the day out, leading up to the race and after the race.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause at the end of the day, I mean, if that little bit of mental clarity can help you from making a smidgen of a mistake every third or fourth lap on the racetrack, helps your car go a tenth of a second faster for those laps, you're going to beat the more talented driver that can't keep his head anyways.

• 51:31Rich Roll?

  Right. What do you think is your strongest suit as a driver? Like what distinguishes you from the other guys?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Um, I've, I've found that, um, I perform well under pressure and I think a lot of that came from, uh, when I was having to drive for the teams that didn't have a, a way into the race and we, you know, we had to race our way in or qualify our way in and it was kind of a do or die situation. Um, I've kind of had to learn to just bite the bullet and, and get focused and, and I feel like I've had a lot of instances in, in my driving career where it's just like that out of body, like experience where you just, it just happened and you don't remember making the decision.

• 52:17Rich Roll?

  Right. You're in the zone.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  You're in the zone and, um,

• 52:21Rich Roll?

  And you're not consciously thinking about shifting, accelerating, all those kinds of things. You're just on some kind of autopilot.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 52:30Rich Roll?

  Where it's flowing.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  And there's, you know, there's that feeling sometimes you get where it's like you don't even feel your arms. You don't even, you know, you're just, you're in the zone. I mean, that's, that's, that's truly what it is. And, and I've, I've kind of found that and I, I've even read Mind Body Sport and it's, you know, it really talks about that and kind of trying to figure out how to harness that. And, and that's one thing that I've kind of focused on. I was like, man, I need to be able to harness that zone and get into the zone. And then I also, you know, on the, on the mental strength side of things, it's not melting down, you know, and, and staying stable for my team and, and keeping them, you know, positive and being a good leader on that.

• 53:14Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, there's a book called, I think it's, I forget the guy who wrote it. It's about flow states or the Flow State Project or something like that. I'll think of it later, but that might be one you want to check out.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Is Mind Body Sport the one that's with the seasons? And that's the one that I read about getting in the zone.

• 53:30Rich Roll?

  I can't remember. And I did, I did a, I don't know if you've listened to it, but I did a podcast with this sports psychologist named Michael Gervais, who's here in Los Angeles. And he's unbelievable. Like you might want to check that out. He had so much like valuable information about that. And he works with the Seattle Seahawks and he's the guy who got Felix Baumgartner, the guy who, the Red Bull Stratos guy.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Oh, we listened to that podcast.

• 53:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he's the guy who got him comfortable in the suit and all that kind of stuff. But he's like packed full of knowledge. And that's really like, you know, the final frontier of athletic performance, I think, beyond nutrition.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  It is.

• 54:04Rich Roll?

  That people really need to start dialing it up as things get more and more competitive. And I think racing is unique and distinct in the sense that it's an athletic event, but I think the mental aspect of it is so much more forefront. Like, you know, you look at basketball or track and field or whatever it is, and you see the athletic aspect of it. And it's easy to overlook the mental aspect of it as, as important as it is. But you're spending so much time just with yourself.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:32Rich Roll?

  And it's not about how strong you are or anything like that. It's like, where's your head at? You know, how can you be more focused and present with what you're doing?

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, our, our races are anywhere from three and a half to four and a half hours. And, and then

• 54:46Speaker 01

  If you want to break it down, like comparing it to football or something, you know, a football, a play lasts seven seconds, 10 seconds. And, and then even from there, you know, the quarterback is off the field for a few minutes, can put himself together and go back out. But in a race, I mean, there are breaks in a race when the caution comes out or there's a crash. But you'll go, you can go 30 minutes having to race lap after lap after lap. And if your car is crappy for that 30 minutes, you can get so far off mentally because it's just like, oh my God, when is this stint going to be over? When can I come and put tires on? I need fuel, I need an adjustment. I need to quit, you know what I mean? It's like, I, I want to get out of this thing.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  And, and you can't afford to lose that, you know, because in, in our racetracks, I mean, you know, when we race out in Fontana, you're in California, the track has six grooves. I mean, if you're, you can have the worst car in the field trying to race it on the bottom. And there's a groove out there, 100 yards to the high side, that if you just would go up there and try it, you have the best car. You know, it just, it's just so, everything's different, you know, and it changes constantly when your tires get wore out and it starts sliding around. So you kind of have to overcome each lap. Even though you're not stopping, you don't get a chance to breathe. You have to go through a corner and miss the corner and almost crash, but think, I know I can do that corner better next time.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  You know, so.

• 56:17Rich Roll?

  And just, and just having to be so focused for such a long extended period of time without a break, you know, under excruciatingly high pressure circumstances where it's literally like, I mean, you know, it is kind of life or death. I mean, you were, before we were recording in the kitchen, you were saying, well, we were talking about Senna and Rush, these movies, and you're like, when everyone was dying in these cars, and you're like, oh, it's so safe now. And I'm like, is it really? You know, I don't know about that, but.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it, it feels safe, it feels safe compared to what it used to be. I mean, Kyle Busch, you know, broke both of his legs in Daytona, um, just a couple of weeks ago, which was a really bizarre accident. And, but there's, I mean, there's a lot of concussions out there on drivers and I've had a concussion as a driver. Um, I wasn't, you know, it was before we were being.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  You looked at for them. So I mean, I raced with a concussion.

• 57:07Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  And but I mean, it's there's a there's a few stuff like that out there, but but I mean, really, it's it's hot in those cars and you're you're at kind of a marathoner's heart rate for the duration of the time that you're at speed.

• 57:24Rich Roll?

  Right. Wow. So that's interesting. So what is it like? What is your typical heart rate when you're racing?

• 57:28Speaker 01

  It's it's kind of in that like 120 to 140.

• 57:32Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's pretty elevated.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  It'll spike, but I mean, it's just it's just at that aerobic.

• 57:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  You know, as a triathlete, you know, a kind of anywhere from like a recovery to aerobic. But it's so hot and and I mean, you know, the cars are probably 120 degrees inside the car. And and then the last thing that I always kind of put on top of it that puts it in perspective for people is like, we're not breathing clean air.

• 58:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  You know, it's not like.

• 58:02Rich Roll?

  Hardly.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  You know, like, oh, okay, marathoner heart rate, you know, like, yeah, that's one thing, but I run a lot, you know, it's like, okay, well, it's hot. Well, you know, I run in the desert. It's pretty hot in the desert.

• 58:12Rich Roll?

  Like running a marathon in Mexico City on a super smoggy day with a breathing out of a, you know, exhaust pipe.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Like, you know, when you're like at the top of a climb on your bike and it's just brutal and you're like full of lactic acid and you're just grasping on every breath and a and a dump truck drives by you. Like, that's kind of, I mean, you know, obviously, we're we're not complete heathens and have terrible, but like, there's, you know, there's really no like formal filtration in these cars, you know, they're not clean. These are race cars.

• 58:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  And and I've got air that blows into my helmet, but I mean, it's, you know, our CO2 levels are are high after races.

• 58:49Rich Roll?

  You're not getting pure oxygen by any stretch.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  We, you know, I've been tested before and after and it's it's high, so.

• 58:55Rich Roll?

  Right. And so so throughout the race, I mean, you're hydrating. Are you eating? Like, how does that work, the nutrition throughout?

• 59:02Speaker 01

  So I've I've dabbled. I go back and forth on on eating during the race. Typically, I'll take either a gel or a banana. I haven't lately. Just I've just gotten.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  I don't know, like I I I do so well on the hydration side of things that like I haven't eaten a lot lately, but sometimes I'll throw a banana in there or a gel. But I definitely, I mean, hydration is huge, especially what I've learned with triathlon and just the importance of that. It's like I've found where in the past I've I've cut myself short in a race car and I can think of instances where it's like, man, that's that's what I needed. So there's a lot of races where I'll take in anywhere from, I mean, the majority of races I've taken anywhere from 75 to 150 ounces, probably.

• 59:53Rich Roll?

  Let's talk about, I want to talk about the triathlon stuff because that's super interesting. But I but before we do that, like I want to, I want to get into a little bit about the culture of NASCAR and kind of, you know, like the myths versus the realities of, you know, what it's like. And, you know, as somebody who, you know, I have a layperson's understanding of what that world is all about, but I'd be lying if I didn't tell you it was half-informed by Talledega Nights and, you know, like whatever I see on television or whatever movie, you know?

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  If you've seen Talledega Nights, then don't even worry, you've seen it all.

• 1:00:26Rich Roll?

  Totally accurate, right? It's all about that. So, I mean, you know, what is that like, what, you know, what is it like to be in, you know, immersed in that culture, living in Charlotte, you know, a race car? I mean, you're, you're living in Charlotte, race car central, NASCAR central, you're a NASCAR driver. I mean, that's pretty sexy and cool.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:46Rich Roll?

  You know, that's like being a rock star. Like, I think it's pretty awesome. You know, but what is, what is that culture all about? Like, and what is different in the reality of it versus what we might imagine?

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  It's just a, it's a very blue collar, hardworking sport. You know, the people that put our cars together and the guys that work on these teams, they were born and bred racers. I mean, a lot of them are just the mechanics of the world that that love cars and, and, you know, especially on some of the smaller teams like mine where we don't have, we're not engineering heavy, we're, we're, you know, mechanic heavy and, and so there are a lot of workers. I mean, my guys work seven days a week. They travel four of those days and they, you know, they don't get to see a lot, their families a lot. You know, they're, the, the days that they do get off are like the day that they're going

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  to travel. So if we're flying out on a Thursday afternoon, they'll get Thursday morning off type thing, but.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  It's it's just a and it's a it's kind of a big traveling circus, you know, a big traveling family. Um, you know, so thirty eight, forty weeks a year ish. I I always say forty weeks a year because it's thirty eight races, but we get two off weekends and I'm always like traveling on those off weekends too. So we're traveling forty weeks a year, minimum. And um, and it's the same people going to the same cities. And and it's just that the the people, like I said, are very blue collar, hardworking type people. And the NASCAR corporate culture is um, is still in a lot of ways, very good old boy because it's a family owned

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  business. And it's owned by the France family. So NASCAR is a very sophisticated corporation, but it still answers to the boss. And and so that's just a and and it's not, you know, that's I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, but that's what NASCAR is. And there's a lot of businesses out there that are like that. And they just have a different culture than than companies that are, uh, you know, run by a board or run by whatever.

• 1:02:49Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. Um, but you're not like, uh, I mean, you're from Iowa, but you're not like, you don't strike me as like, I mean, your name's Landon, it's not Bobby.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Rich Roll?

  Or Dale. You know, like, you don't strike me as being like

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Or both.

• 1:03:02Rich Roll?

  A good old, a good, yeah.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Bobby Dale.

• 1:03:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know, like, you're not like, uh, you know, like Talladega, right? Like, you you don't strike me as being like a good old boy and, you know, like chewing tobacco and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I mean, is that?

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  No, I'm not. And and I and I never was. I mean, I, um, it's, uh, you know, and I don't know, I guess I I could have been. I grew up in Iowa, I worked on race cars and I'm an NASCAR driver.

• 1:03:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  What's that? Yeah, if I hang around racers in the south.

• 1:03:35Rich Roll?

  You got a little bit of a, you got a little bit of a twang.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:37Rich Roll?

  Not too much.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Please don't say that. I hate it when people say I have to check myself when people say that. But I. You've been living in Charlotte for a while. I know. I, I, I definitely, I definitely could have been, um, good old boy, but I, I mean, I got a little bit of a creative mind sometimes and, and, um, and I've always, I always kind of venture out in things and, and Katie and I, you know, we don't live, like in a Charlotte area, like all the racing people live, like in Mooresville up by the lake and Lake Norman. And so we kind of keep to ourselves a little bit, which is funny. We live in the city. We keep to ourselves. But we have a lot of friends outside of the racing industry and, and. You know, like jet skiing and doing like.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  No, no, we just, you know, we, we live our little vegan life in, in Charlotte and, and, um, but it's, uh, you know, I, I get along with the, the industry and I, and I'm a part of that culture, but, um, but I was just, I never, I was a never, never like into hunting and you know, those things that, that, uh, that racers, you know, and just that country boy type, um, personas into, um, but, but growing up, I mean, I guess the reason I ended up being a racer despite kind of being a part of that, culture, I just cared about driving. Like I just wanted to race. I just wanted to drive. I built my race cars. I,

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  you know, I was in high school. I would, there's often times I got up before school to go work on my car. I went to school and then worked on it till 10 or 11 at night after school. And that's just all I wanted to do. I didn't, I didn't create other hobbies. Right. Or anything like that. Your dad's gotta be psyched. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come to all the races? Um, he did at one point, but he hasn't, uh, he hasn't, he, he'll go to like five to 10 ish. Uh, maybe not 10, but he'll, he'll, he'll go to five ish. Um, he's, he's still, he's still in the car business in Iowa. So he's, he's pretty deep in that and, and, um. My dad's a very highly motivated person. My family, we're a family of highly motivated people. Yeah, you have brothers and sisters?

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Um, my brother is a geologist. He lives in Boulder. I'm sorry, he lives downtown Denver. My sister lives. Uh, she goes to Denver University as well. So, so my brother's a geologist and he was a professional bass fisherman when he was in college. Oh, wow. Which is pretty interesting. And um, he was a vegetarian at the time, too. It was kinda weird. Really? Yeah. Which was so funny side note, talking about my brother, he was kinda like vegan vegetarian in college and or like towards the end of high school, like through college. And he was your trademark, like, did it to piss off my parents. Uh huh. Right? Just like the perfect college kid vegan, you know, like,

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  like, like if somebody said, like, what do you stand for as a vegan? I stand for pissing off my parents. Like, that's what he wanted to do. And um, but he was, he, he was for a long time. So I guess you can't just do it out of spite for two, for that long. He's not gonna be able to sustain that. But, uh, but, and he certainly wasn't a healthy, you know, vegan. It was like potato chips and stuff, but, uh, but I, it was always funny cause like, you know, obviously I wasn't a vegan back then. And I'd always be like, how could you go fishing and be a vegan? Like, how's that work? And he's like, I don't, you know, I throw him back and I always, he's like, he always believed it was bad karma to eat the fish anyways. He's like, even if I was, you know, wasn't a vegetarian, I wouldn't eat him. But it's just kinda funny. But I think, again, I think it was just him justifying the,

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Right, right. The rebellion. But, uh, my sister is a figure skater. Wow. And um, she's, but she's a college student now. So she goes to Denver University and, Interesting. Is it Denver University or University of Denver? Cause there are, University of Denver? Those are two different schools. Yeah, I think so. U D, University of Denver. Okay. Yeah, right in downtown.

• 1:07:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's cool. Everybody's doing different things.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Follow our dreams family.

• 1:07:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's cool. Well, I want to talk about like how you kind of, you know, this is sort of a segue into the triathlon stuff, but like how you approach the training aspect of trying to be as physically and mentally fit as possible for your racing. And your sport is so unique in the sense that it's not like you can go to the track every day and do hot laps, you know?

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:03Rich Roll?

  Like the idea of getting the car out on the track is a hugely expensive endeavor.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Rich Roll?

  And I have, I have some friends that are motorcycle racers, similar kind of thing. So without being able to actually practice the thing that it is that you do, you know, on a regular basis, you know, what is it that you specifically, and maybe some of what the other racers do to try to, you know, be fit for that?

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's just like you said, it's triathlon is, is my choice. I've, I've done CrossFit. I mean, I was never into it, right? I say I've done CrossFit. I didn't do CrossFit because there's people that do CrossFit and my God.

• 1:08:44Rich Roll?

  There's doing CrossFit and then there's doing.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Right, there's, there's, yeah. So I, I worked out and, and, and, you know, lifted and CrossFit and all those things. And, and first of all, for me, like I didn't get hooked on those things like I did triathlon. But also like I really found with triathlon, just that endurance aspect was such a compliment to, to what I do in a race car. Cause at the end of the day, I mean, we talked about the, the heart rate and the heat and everything and our races being three and a half to four and a half hours on a kind of a cardio aspect, I'm doing a marathon every Sunday.

• 1:09:22Rich Roll?

  It's kind of a perfect, triathlon training really is kind of a perfect compliment.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  And I actually race twice a week. I race on Saturdays as well in the Xfinity Series.

• 1:09:31Rich Roll?

  Right, that was another thing, like you racing two different cars. We didn't talk about that.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:36Rich Roll?

  I was like, how does that work? Like, wait, you have this car and you also race this other car?

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's, it's really, it's in NASCAR, there's the Sprint Cup Series and there's the Xfinity Series and the Xfinity Series is kind of like the feeder series.

• 1:09:47Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  But it's weird because the Sprint Cup drivers can race in the feeder series. And, and it's actually the Sprint Cup drivers racing in the feeder series is kind of a... A value proposition there because you get these big name drivers to show up and then the young guns can kind of challenge them and it brings a lot of money to the sport. It brings a lot of money to the Xfinity Series. So it has its pros and cons. For me, I run them both because it's more time in the race car. You know, both the teams I drive for are small. You know, we're not going to go out there and set the world on fire week in and week out. But for me, I can get more experience. I can prove myself more as a good driver. It's just another opportunity for me to race.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  So I race 300 miles on Saturday and 500 miles on Sunday. So I do, you know,

• 1:10:44Rich Roll?

  Back to back.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  A marathon on Sunday and a half marathon on Saturday. And I've found that with triathlon and long course triathlon that just that endurance has helped me a ton inside the race car. And then, you know, anybody, there's a lot of triathletes listening, I'm sure, know how addicting it is and that as triathletes have addictive personalities. And I've got addictive personalities. And I mean, I just, and I'm competitive and I push myself and I definitely dive into things 100%. And I've kind of gotten into a point where I treat my triathlon training and just my

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  like my weekly schedules of my training and then into my races on the weekend, it all just kind of works into one. I mean, I, you know, I put on my recovery boots after a race, whether it's a triathlon

• 1:11:39Rich Roll?

  You've got the Normatec boots. Like you've got all the stuff, you know?

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, and I, you know, those were calculated purchases, but.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  But I mean, it's just a recovery from getting out of a race car and then getting in the pool and running on Mondays, which is what I do on Mondays. I swim and run. Monday is a, is kind of a get back into the swing of things. You know, I typically, I'll try to see my physical therapist on Monday or Tuesdays and get my body squared away again, because we found that, that my hips get cranked over the course of the weekend, just from the G-forces that I pull in the race car and being in a seated position, buckled in tight, you know, your, you know, your hip flexors. Yeah, it's got to jack you up pretty good. It's, it's very jacked up. And so like the left side of my body is just like weak

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  and, and immobile and the right side is decent. So, you know. It's going around the same way, you know, like. Laughing, it's real funny. Yeah, I've never really thought about that, but like over time, yeah, that would create like a huge imbalance. So, um, so I, I work with, you know, that, that stuff early in the week and, and, and then on Tuesdays, Tuesdays are usually big training days for me. I, I do a big swim in the morning and then typically like a 25 mile or an hour trainer ride and a three to six mile brick, depending on where I'm at in my periodization. And then Wednesday's speed work and another swim and lift on Wednesdays. And Thursdays would be like a

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  long aerobic bike ride and a travel day. Uh huh. And then Fridays are a long run for me. And then that's when I'm in a race car. So, um, Fridays, I have to start getting serious about like on a physical side of things, getting a good solid run in, but also recovering in time and staying hydrated throughout the day. You can't overdo it. Because. Before you're racing. Uh, right. Cause I've, cause on Fridays, I'm in the car all day. You know, we talk about racing on Sunday and how hard it is, racing on Saturday, how hard it is. But on Friday, I practice and I qualify both cars. Right. So.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Like tomorrow is a Friday and I practice at noon. Since we had a long week in Palm Springs, like hiking and I did a lot of some, some pretty tough runs while I was in Palm Springs. I'm just gonna swim tomorrow morning, but I'm gonna be nonstop at the racetrack in a car from noon to like 5:30 after we qualify. So I kinda have to, like I try to get those long runs in on, on Friday. But I have to really kinda stay hydrated, stay, keep the nutrition in me throughout the day while I'm driving.

• 1:14:25Rich Roll?

  Or you could do what you did, I think, was it in Phoenix where the car broke down and then you ran back to the hotel?

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  That was a good one, which there, there's a

• 1:14:34Rich Roll?

  I saw it on your Twitter.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a little story behind that too.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  Which, so I have no idea when you'll air this or when, but when this will apply, but the story behind it is. Well, first of all, my, my Xfinity race in Phoenix, I blew a tire on lap 90. So we're a hundred miles into this race, 300 mile race and, or 200 mile race, I'm sorry. And blew a tire, hit the wall, car was junk. And so I just put my running shoes on and I ran back to the hotel. I guess that's not much of a story. The story behind this is supposed to be a story.

• 1:15:11Rich Roll?

  That was good.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  No, it's really simple. I just, yeah, I got on my car and I was, so I put my running shoes on and I drank a bottle of water and, and I didn't have my handheld with me, which would have really been nice, but it was eight and a half miles and I thought, ah, I can make it on eight and a half miles. It'd take about an hour and I was thirsty by the end of the ride. And, and I, I drank two bottles in that hundred miles in the car and then drank one after.

• 1:15:36Rich Roll?

  When you're in the car, do you have like a water bottle with you or is it only when they squirt it in your mouth when you pull into the pit? How does that work?

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  What movies did you watch?

• 1:15:45Rich Roll?

  I don't know. Like I'm telling, I told you, I don't know anything.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  So no, I keep a water bottle in the car. I keep it really simple. There's drivers that have drink systems.

• 1:15:52Rich Roll?

  Is there like an anchor for it? Like?

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's just a water bottle holder. It kinda sits in there pretty deep and it really only flies out if you crash or something. Yeah, I know. Well, yeah, I just try to suck it down and sweat it out, but um, so yeah, I keep that in, but I, I, I did that eight and a half mile run, but I, I've, my sponsor, I'm sponsored by Snap Fitness, which is really cool because they just love like the, just the fitness and health side. I mean, they're just like, okay, Lena, whatever, you know, I'm just like, hey, I'm gonna do this half Ironman this year and it's on an off weekend, but and they're just like, oh my God, do whatever you wanna do, man, you just like, just, just tag Snap Fitness.

• 1:16:31Rich Roll?

  Do you have a, like a, a triathlon kit that has all your sponsors?

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  I do, yeah, I got Snap Fitness on it. And um, I'm like that guy at the triathlon with my branding. Um, so I'm sponsored by Snap Fitness.

• 1:16:45Rich Roll?

  The difference is that you're, you actually are sponsored by all those people.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  Right, I actually am sponsored, yeah.

• 1:16:50Rich Roll?

  Most people just, they're, they're wearing all these sponsored things, but they're not actually.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Well, it's so funny, like in the, the world of triathlon and cycling and all that stuff, it's like, you buy like Zip wheels, you know, it's got the Zip sticker on it and like Zip has great branding, you know, and it's like.

• 1:17:02Rich Roll?

  They're laughing all the way to the bank, you know.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Paying thirty five hundred dollars for a set of wheels to run their stickers on it.

• 1:17:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Um, by the way.

• 1:17:09Rich Roll?

  Like in my world, you pay a lot of money to have those stickers on it. People are volunteering to do this.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:17:16Rich Roll?

  They're actually paying Zip thousands of dollars to have their sticker.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Advertise for them.

• 1:17:19Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Right, so, uh, so Snap and I, we were kind of chatting and they, they wanna do something like, we might do a five K later in the year or something. Uh, and I, I was, I was kind of thinking and my dad and I were talking and I was like, you know, the hardest race of the year is a six hundred mile race we do in May on uh, Memorial Day weekend. And um, it's like thirteen to fourteen miles from the racetrack in Charlotte to the Hall of Fame in downtown Charlotte. And I'm like, I wonder if I could do that six hundred mile race in my car and then get out and jog it out.

• 1:18:00Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Fourteen miles home or whatever it might be.

• 1:18:03Rich Roll?

  You should do that.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  And so I'm thinking about it, yeah, and I know I could, I know I'm fit enough to do it, but like, for me, the challenge would be like, well, first of all, finishing the race, I mean, like, you know, blown engine, getting in a crash, like finish the race. And then so Snap was kinda like, man, we could, we would like, we'd get behind that, you know, so. We're kind of like in the early stages of just figuring it out because you gotta remember like that's a night race, starts at 6pm, it's a, usually takes four and a half to five hours to do 600 mile race. So you're done at 11, I mean by the time I get out of the car like, and if I were doing it right, it would-

• 1:18:40Rich Roll?

  You gotta do press and all that kinda stuff right after, right?

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I'd get out of the race car, I would probably have at least like a masseuse there to just like strip me out or something, you know, get changed, get some fluids in me, like it would probably be like a 15 to 30 minute brick, you know?

• 1:18:57Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  And, and then you got traffic and it, so it's midnight, right? When we get started. So, um, you know, I told Snap, I'm like, well, I would consider looking into this, but like, you've gotta, like, give me a plan. Like, how are we gonna execute this? So it'll be kinda interesting to see what they come up with. They've, they've got some ideas and, and, uh, but I wanna do it, but I, I kinda like decided I'm gonna start like kinda jogging home from some of these races and see, uh-

• 1:19:26Rich Roll?

  That could be like your thing. You know, everybody needs like their thing. You're the guy who runs home after, after every race.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  Dean Karnaz is the guy that eats a pizza while he, on the, probably not anymore, but-

• 1:19:35Rich Roll?

  You know, like Jesse Thomas wears aviator shades, you know, like, you know-

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:19:39Rich Roll?

  This could be like your thing. Well, I think what would be cool would be, just say it's a midnight half and then also open it up to your fans. So the people can hang out-

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Rich Roll?

  And those who wanna run can like do the run with you afterwards. So it, it allows you to kind of connect with the people-

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  If anybody wants to do this or is interested, or maybe if it's not Charlotte, just let us know. Let me know. Let Rich know.

• 1:20:02Rich Roll?

  I bet you, I bet you you get a lot of people to do that. I think that'd be really fun.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  That, that would be the driving force behind it is if I didn't have to do it alone.

• 1:20:09Rich Roll?

  When is this? May?

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  It's in May.

• 1:20:10Rich Roll?

  I wanna do it.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Memorial Day weekend.

• 1:20:14Rich Roll?

  That sounds really fun.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Run from the racetrack and I'll, you're gonna look at me like, "Man, Lena, are you okay?"

• 1:20:20Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  Like, "If I just raced 600 miles in my race car." But yeah, I'm doing good.

• 1:20:25Rich Roll?

  You're an endurance athlete, you can handle it.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  PR a half marathon after a...

• 1:20:29Rich Roll?

  I think that'd be cool. Um, in Charlotte, do you, uh, do you ever go down and swim at Mecklenburg?

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, so, um, I actually, it's a name drop for a second, do you know Coach Dave Marsh? I'm sure you've heard of.

• 1:20:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, of course, I don't know him personally. I may have met him once, but, but I don't know him well, but of course I know who he is, he's a legend.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  So they, um, his Swim Mac Elite, uh, works out, um, two days a week at the pool that I swim at in, in Mecklenburg Aquatic Center.

• 1:20:58Rich Roll?

  The big outdoor 50 meter, right?

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Uh, it's indoors.

• 1:21:00Rich Roll?

  That one? Oh, it is?

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:02Rich Roll?

  There's a, I used to, I used to go to a meet when I was in high school. It was a big meet, it was like the Mecklenburg, it was, it was like early summer, or maybe it was like July 4th weekend or something like that, but we would always go to Charlotte and there was a big outdoor 50 meter pool, but it was a Mecklenburg-like sponsored event.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  I'll have to check it out, it might, I, I'm, I'm, I'll have to think of what pools are out there, but the, the kind of, the, the pool right now that I, like the best one in town 50 meter is, uh, the Aquatic Center in downtown and, and, uh, Dave Marsh, um, has a Swim Mac Elite group that swims there twice a week, the other, the rest of the time they swim at Queens University and he's, uh, he's got Ryan Lochte and Tyler Clary.

• 1:21:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Tyler and, and, uh, Cullen Jones.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  Yep, I've, I've kind of gotten to know them a little bit, um, just, just on the pool deck, like not, uh, not outside, but other than Dave, I know I'm a little closer and, and he's, um, he's kind of helped me with my stroke a little bit, which is nice sometimes, but I usually go in and, cause I know when they work out and I'll see him and, and, um, and Tyler's a big race fan, so he'll usually duck in and

• 1:22:05Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Remind me that my head's lifting my head or something.

• 1:22:08Rich Roll?

  And you, um, and, uh, there's a guy on your team that swam for Stanford, right?

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:22:13Rich Roll?

  On the race team.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Kevin Radveney, so, yes, and he, he knew, he knows who you are, so I was like,

• 1:22:18Rich Roll?

  That's crazy.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Which I, you know, I, I think I mentioned something about you doing a while back, cause I was like, "Gosh, I read this guy's book, it's so awesome, and he swam at Stanford." "You know who Rich Roll is?" And he's like, "Rich Roll?", like, and, and the best part was, and, and you'll probably like be able to at least chuck, for the, at the very least chuckle to yourself. Is like you gotta understand Kevin like has no idea who Rich Roll the super athlete plant based like he knows who Rich Roll the college swimmer is.

• 1:22:48Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Right. So he's he's in in like he didn't he didn't know you. He didn't have anything to say. He was like, oh, yeah, I know Rich Roll like he was, you know, you know, some years ahead of me or something like that. And I'm like, you know, Rich Roll is. And he's like, yeah, yeah, he swam with Stanford like a couple of years before me. What's the big deal? He's a good swimmer. You know, and I'm like, like, well, it's like, like, look at it. You know what he does now? Like, you know, and to me, I'm like trying to convey this to Kevin because I'm like, he's a different person now that, you know, like, he's, he's, he's like different than a swimmer that he was, you know, and, and, um, and he's like, wow, that's, that's incredible. That's pretty cool, you know, so.

• 1:23:26Rich Roll?

  I think what he's doing is cool, like to make that transition from college swimming into racing. I remember reading about it like it's super impressive.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, he doesn't swim much anymore and I've I like push him. I got him in the pool once and, and it was tough because he's like, oh, man, I haven't swam in a couple of years, you know, and he freaking smoked me. But he was all American swimmer.

• 1:23:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like when you're at that level, like, there's like sort of two camps. There's some people that are just like never again, like I just, because you're just doing it so much. You're just like, I don't need that in my life anymore. Um, but guys like that, like you'll see it will do it. We have an alumni meet every year and you'll see guys that like, you know, my age and they dump it. They jump in and they just, they'll just, you know, crank out like some insane 50 free style like it's just in their blood. You know, once you know how to do that, you can tap back into it.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Swimming, I've compared, like, I compare swimming and racing and golf sometimes, which is really kind of weird, but like, there, the three of them are are skill based sports, right? Like swimming more than the other two, like swimming is a fit. I mean, you gotta be fit to be a good swimmer, but you actually.

• 1:24:33Rich Roll?

  So much technique. It really is like a stroke is really like a golf swing.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 1:24:37Rich Roll?

  Always be perfecting it.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. And like, and you can be a good swimmer, but be out of shape. You can be a good golfer, but be out of shape. You can be a good race car driver and be out of shape, but you can't be elite at any of those and be out of shape. And and like, and that's so like, you can have the skill of being a race car driver, but just never tap your potential. If you don't uncover every rock and the same with the golf swing, I mean Tiger Woods showed up and was just like cranking his, you know, I mean, he's paying for it now

• 1:25:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  with his back, but like, I mean, just lifting and the flexibility and just show these, these big guys that, you know, had the skill to hit a golf ball, but he showed them that I can show up with that skill and, and hit the ball 30 yards, 50 yards farther than you because I'm fit.

• 1:25:27Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  And, and swimming is the same way. I mean, it's, I mean, you can have the, the skill of being a good swimmer and, and, and probably do as good as the guys around you, um, who are working harder than you.

• 1:25:39Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  You know, so, um, and in racing, like I said, like there's drivers, I can think of drivers that I know that I look at them and I'm just like, I'm glad that guy is not focused because if he was focused, he would be taking my job.

• 1:25:53Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  You know, he would be like, that guy is so good, you know, I guess that's a terrible thing to say, but it's like, he is so good, but he's just not in it.

• 1:26:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  You know, and, and if he could just get in it, um, he could, there's, there's no telling what he could do.

• 1:26:07Rich Roll?

  Right, the potential. I mean, a couple of observations on that. I mean, the first thing is I feel like, um, and this is just like a complete outsider's, you know, perspective looking in, but I feel like there's a lot of guys in racing that are like in a triathlon right now.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:26Rich Roll?

  Like you have guys like Tony, you know, Tony Kanaan and like, you know, some big time racers that are, that are doing triathlons.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, Justin Button's huge.

• 1:26:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  And one way champion, Jimmy Johnson.

• 1:26:34Rich Roll?

  And trying to do really well at it too, like treating it, you know, very competitively. Um, and I feel like that's a quantum leap, you know, in terms of approaching the sport of racing seriously as, yeah, I am an athlete. I can't just get fat and eat chicken wings and chew tobacco.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:26:51Rich Roll?

  You know, which I would imagine, you know, maybe 15, 20 years ago, most of the guys, you know, weren't into being.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Well, because their skill carried them.

• 1:26:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, because they're, they're highly, highly skilled at what they do, but, but that's not really approaching it like an athlete's perspective.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:27:05Rich Roll?

  Kind of from a mind, body, spirit approach of trying to be as fit as possible. So I would imagine that that's really, you know, translating into, um, you know, kind of quantum leaps and performance gains and, and, and how well people are racing.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:27:18Rich Roll?

  What you're seeing on the track. Um, but the question that I have for you is.

• 1:27:23Rich Roll?

  Like you're doing the triathlon training and that's making you endurance fit, you know, the cardio and all of that kind of aspect of it. But like, is there anything that you do to work on like your reaction time? You know, like, I feel like you're making all these micro decisions and you have to be able to, you know, like your, your nervous system has to be so finely tuned to be able to like, you know, make those snap judgments at the exact moment. And that's different from triathlon, you know, like in triathlon, you're not really doing that kind of thing. So is there anything specific that you do to approach that?

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Um, I haven't, I, it's funny that you ask that question because I haven't like officially dove into that. Right. You know, I have like so much of my time is consumed with triathlon training and just everything I do. And then to add like another like, uh, you know, this is the reaction stuff is like there, there is an avenue. I can go down there and I've seen drivers that, uh, that are into training, like in the gym. They've, there's like, uh, like a Jacob's ladder type workout, you know, things that they, you know, you're picking the colors and you're jumping, you know, on things. And, uh, but one thing that I've kind of started to do, um, is there's this app I play on my phone. It's just a reaction game and it's, it's circles and like these sticks that point out.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  I think the app is even called like AA or something. It's just like, doesn't even have a name. It's kind of weird. Um, and it's, it's, it's just, I, I like it's, the reason I say it's funny that you asked me that is like, the answer is no, I don't really have anything that I've done, but I've started playing this app. And I've started noticing like kind of improvements and just at least short-term attentiveness and like quickness and things like that. Like I, this is like the worst example, but I was playing through this game and kind of just getting into it and got through a bunch of levels. And then I turned on Flappy Bird and I set a high score the first time I played it.

• 1:29:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Like, and it was really weird that like I did that. And, and, and the reason I downloaded this game is for that reason that you were talking about. It's like, hey, is this something I can do on the plane headed to a race weekend? You know, just to kind of, even if I spend 15 minutes a day or, you know, or 15 minutes once a week, you know, just on my way to the track to just kind of sharpen my mind. I think, you know, it could be a help.

• 1:29:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  So it's, it's, uh, I don't know, but sometimes, you know, the, the reaction stuff, I mean, it's, you know, it's definitely important, definitely something that, that can be honed and there's always ways I can get better. But, man, I feel like sometimes instinctually, I just, those decisions get made.

• 1:29:55Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, that's part of the 10,000 hours.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:29:58Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? Like, it's just bred into you. But, you know, one of the things you said early on, when I asked you, you know, what's the difference between, you know, a good driver and a great driver, and you were talking about, um, you know, being able to maintain your composure under high-pressure situations and how you kind of, you know, the more graceful, you know, people are with respect to their teams and how you kind of navigate this world, the better off, you know, you see their careers going. And I'm wondering if, to me, when I hear that, I'm like, well, meditation, like, unlocks all of that stuff. Like, have you delved into that at all?

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  So, very lightly, and my, my wife, um, as the inspiration behind-

• 1:30:38Rich Roll?

  Katie, I want to put you on the mic here.

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  We need to get her a mic.

• 1:30:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  So, she, she's really the inspiration behind a lot of my, just, my lifestyle and my nutrition and, and, um, you know, she comes from a, um, a counselor background and she's read a million yoga books and, and like, so she-

• 1:31:00Rich Roll?

  Sounds like somebody I know.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I, I was telling her, I was like, man, I feel like we have similar backgrounds, even, even kind of, um, yours and my path to, um, to our nutrition is similar, because it was like, we were led by example. I mean, your wife was there the whole time.

• 1:31:16Rich Roll?

  It wouldn't have happened without her.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  She wasn't in your ear.

• 1:31:20Rich Roll?

  Inhaling cheeseburgers right now.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Right, right. She, but the whole time, she had, she was there doing it, but you were just kind of, you know, doing your thing and, but you always had that tool ready to use it whenever you were ready, right? And so, uh, the meditation thing is something that, that is, is there for me that I've dabbled in, but haven't dove into. And, um- And it's so, it could be, it's something I'm looking forward to diving into because I know how valuable it's gonna be. You know, I've, I watch like the drivers that lose their cool in a car and things like that. And, and, and sometimes it's so frustrating when people confuse passion with foolishness, you know, and there's a lot of drivers out there that, man, he's so

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  passionate. No, he's foolish. You know, he's, he's, he's acting like a fool. He shouldn't.

• 1:32:11Rich Roll?

  He's out of control. He's not in control of his.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. And they, they confuse that. They call it passion, or they call that, you know, intensity. So it's, it's definitely, it's definitely something that's, that's on the horizon.

• 1:32:25Rich Roll?

  I'm challenging you now, on record, to get into it. Seriously, man. Like, honestly, I think that-

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  What's the starter kit? Give me the starter kit.

• 1:32:33Rich Roll?

  Here, I'll give you, I'll give you a super, I'll give you a super easy way to get going. And that is this. Download the Headspace app to your iPhone. They have 10, like 10, you know, 10 free guided meditations on there that are like 10 minutes each or something like that. And if you're into it after that, you can like upgrade. And then, you know, it's cheap, but, and then you just get a whole world of all these different guided meditation programs. And it's, it's started by this guy, Andy Putticombe. I did a podcast with him. I haven't, I haven't aired it yet. He's an amazing guy. He's like British guy. And now he's sort of like the Jamie Oliver of meditation. Like, he's sort of, you know, like, but he was a, he was

• 1:33:11Rich Roll?

  literally a monk, like, living in India for 10 years. Like, he, he talked about 10,000 hours. Like, this guy's put in 50,000 hours of meditation. But he came back to the world. And, you know, he would do like, you know, like 18 hours of meditation a day. Like, he was doing, like, he knows what he's talking about. And now he's like this, you would never know, like, he's super hip and cool. And like, he, he, but he's able to, he's an amazing communicator. So he's able to take these principles and kind of take all of the, the sort of woo-woo vernacular out of it. And, and very, and explain it in very elementary terms that make sense. And so, the app has like, you know, guided meditation programs on it. And you can just

• 1:33:55Rich Roll?

  do it on your phone. And, you know, 20 minutes in the morning. And he just talks you through it. So you don't have to like,

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  It's like a headphone.

• 1:34:03Rich Roll?

  Get into like, well, I don't know how to do it. Like I just put the earbuds in and do it. And I think it's a great way to get going. It takes the guesswork out of it. You don't have to go read some book. You don't have to do anything other than just kind of listen to him. And, um, and it's been revelatory for me. Like it's been, you know, I've, I've been interested in meditation and flirting around with it for like, forever, for like 16 years. And I've always had difficulty or challenges trying to be consistent about it. But I've been really consistent over the last like five months or something like that. And I've noticed a huge change in everything, you know, like how I interact with people and just, you know, I got a lot of things coming at me right now. I'm juggling a lot of different things. I'm trying to be a dad and a husband.

• 1:34:45Rich Roll?

  And like, we got this book coming out. I'm doing podcasts. I'm traveling. I'm speaking and, and I'm getting, you know, way too many emails that I can't respond to. And on my anxiety level like starts to go up, you know, like I, I want to be able to do all these things. And, and then I start, I get into like a panic mode and I freeze and then I'm not productive. Right? And my experience with the meditation is that now I'm able to kind of navigate all these things and be more productive and, and delegate and communicate better and just be present in what I'm doing. And it's, it's been quite amazing.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:17Rich Roll?

  Quite amazing. And I think that in the context of like what you do, like that presence of mind, like that mindfulness that you could bring to your racing, could really translate into something special in terms of your performance.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  That's, that's definitely, I mean, that's the challenge I need because we've, I feel like the recurring theme in the past couple of months, especially as my triathlon training is, has been more than ever. And my focus on, you know, being the best athlete I can be and then, and then getting the race season, like this was a new race season for us. Like we're, the team that I'm with is, is like our, we're a new team compared to what we were last year. So there's a lot of things that just were ramped up going into this year. And I felt like the last eight to 12 weeks. Um, I've told my wife multiple times, like, man, I just need to be more put together.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  Like, I've found myself, I'm, I'm not a very good scheduler, so, um, like, I'll, I'll make a schedule and then I just, like, won't stick to it. Like, I'll, you know, I'll, I'll make a plan on what I'm gonna do all day Monday and it's gonna start at this time, but like, if I wake up at that time and I don't decide I'm gonna do that, like, I can, I will convince myself, oh, I can do that later in the day and I'll do this instead this morning and then I won't, and I can, and then I just screw everything up. And so, I know we've had conversations where I've just been like, what do I need to do to get myself more put together to where I can execute? Cause she is the most planned out, structured person. Look at her rolling her eyes. I feel bad, I don't, she doesn't have a mic. I'm gonna move, I'm gonna have

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  to hand this over.

• 1:36:57Rich Roll?

  Slide it over to her. Come on, I wanna hear from her. Come on, Katie.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:37:01Rich Roll?

  What's the problem here? I'm get, you, you know what's up? You, you know what's going on, right? You're trying to, you're trying to tell him what's what? I'm giving, I'm giving Lynn the solution right now.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Of meditation.

• 1:37:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:14Speaker 02

  What's that book? The, is it Dan Harris, 10%?

• 1:37:17Rich Roll?

  Oh, 10% Happier.

• 1:37:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I just, I read that one.

• 1:37:20Rich Roll?

  That's a good book for him. Yeah.

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  I tried him. Yeah, I get him to read that.

• 1:37:22Rich Roll?

  It's very accessible.

• 1:37:24Speaker 02

  Yep, that was a good book.

• 1:37:26Rich Roll?

  10% Faster in the Car. You're talking about like shaving, you know, like, that engineering team that's spending all that time on those tiny little carbon fiber, you could just leapfrog right over that. 10% faster.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  He was very vanilla to the whole meditation too, wasn't he? At the beginning of the book, like, he wasn't.

• 1:37:43Rich Roll?

  No, totally not into it. Did you listen to that podcast that I did with him?

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  No, I would though.

• 1:37:47Rich Roll?

  No, I, yeah.

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  I liked this book.

• 1:37:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I did, I, no, I did a podcast with Dan and he walks through the whole process of, yeah, and why he's such a great kind of ambassador of it is because he was a skeptic and he's like a, you know, he's like a normal dude. He's a newscaster, like, the guy's on Nightline and like, you know, he's like a, he's like a major newscaster. He didn't, you know, he didn't wanna be a meditator or anything like that and he, he was sort of, kind of compelled into it by a personal crisis that kind of made him. Begin to explore it.

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  Who knew the news was so stressful too? I mean,

• 1:38:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:20Speaker 02

  It was like very interesting.

• 1:38:21Rich Roll?

  It's a cool book, right? Like when he talks about some of the stuff that he had to do.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:25Rich Roll?

  Um, I got him on the green smoothies too. I don't have him vegan yet, but I've got him like every once in a while I email him and I'm like, how the green smoothie's going? But um, yeah, I would check out that book. That's what I think that would be helpful, but um, but yeah, I think you have like a little uh, a little window of opportunity here to explore. Now it's just a matter of whether he's gonna do it. He's laughing over there, he doesn't want to do it.

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  I can tell you if he does it, he'll do it all the time, so we can get him to do it.

• 1:38:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like channeling that obsessive compulsive addictive personality into, Yeah. Well, the great thing about the Headspace app is that like it's right there. Like I moved it down into the dock on my iPhone, so it's right there on the bottom, like where normally the phone icon would be. So I see it all the time and I'm like, ah, I gotta do it.

• 1:39:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, whatever, whatever you're using compulsively, that's taking you out of the moment. Put the thing there that's gonna bring you back into the moment, right?

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 1:39:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, so cool. So you're the, you're the spine, you're the rock in this equation.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  Um, I'm a dabbler, so I think that that's, I think we're a good fit that way. Like I, I couldn't do triathlons because I can't do the same thing every day. So my personality is very dabbling. I'm interested in everything, but not anything specifically enough.

• 1:39:42Rich Roll?

  But you're the seeker.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm the seeker and then um, he's kind of, will pick some things up and then just go all the way, like with it. So I think we're a good fit that way.

• 1:39:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I can, I can relate to that a little bit, I think.

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I, I was a vegetarian forever and um, he was always like, well, try to get me to not eat red meat. And I'm like, I don't care if you eat red meat, you know, do whatever you need to do. And then he read your book and then it was really him who was like, no, we're just gonna be vegan. But it kind of took him to be the person to say like, we're not gonna eat any of that stuff anymore because I was so, ah, you know, I'm just dabbling and can try for a little bit and whatever, so.

• 1:40:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's similar to us too. Like Julie was the one who inspired me to make the change. But then I go all whole hog, you know, where she, and then she's like, okay, well now I gotta be in, you know, I'm gonna be in too. So it was kind of like it looped around that way.

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:40:35Rich Roll?

  And so what's it like to like, you know, be married to a race car driver and be traveling all the time?

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  He asked me that today.

• 1:40:41Rich Roll?

  You have a baby on the way. How many months are you?

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  Uh, I'll be eight soon. So, yeah. He asked me that today. He's like, did you ever think you traveled this much? And I was like, my life is so not went as planned. In good ways, yeah.

• 1:40:55Rich Roll?

  What did you think you were gonna be doing?

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  Well, I was a school teacher, a school counselor before I met him. So I thought I'd marry a banker and we'd work nine. We'd work nine to three and come home and, and, you know, go to church on Sunday and play on Saturdays and that would be it. So.

• 1:41:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you're now you're living this adventure.

• 1:41:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're, we're different. Like his family was follow your dreams, you know, pick something you want to do, but you gotta do it. My family was like, be safe, go to college, get a job that's gonna be around for a long time. So.

• 1:41:25Rich Roll?

  Did you grow up in Charlotte?

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  I grew up in Ohio, Midwest.

• 1:41:28Rich Roll?

  But you, you got a twang in your voice. You must have been living in Charlotte for a while.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Uh, he's been there longer than me, but I taught in some very country schools while I was there. So we don't have to get very far out of Charlotte to be very southern.

• 1:41:46Rich Roll?

  Have you guys hit some of the, the vegan restaurants around here?

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  We ate at Sage Cafe in Pasadena. Um, lots of good places in Palm Springs.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  You guys have it easy out here.

• 1:41:59Rich Roll?

  Super easy. Yeah. I can't imagine. I know. Slide the mic back. Like, yeah, like I can't. Yeah, I, I don't know. You know, I can't, I, I think it's probably a little bit more difficult in, uh, in Charlotte, right?

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Rich, you're, you're, uh, you're an inspiration and, um, and man, you do an amazing job, but like here there's a hundred restaurants for you to go to.

• 1:42:23Rich Roll?

  I'm the first one to admit that, you know? Trust me.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  There's two. Vegetarian.

• 1:42:30Rich Roll?

  I know there's one place in Charlotte, because I got a buddy who lives there who's vegan. He's taking pictures of, what is it called?

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  Luna's Living Kitchen.

• 1:42:38Rich Roll?

  Is that what it is?

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Well, the.

• 1:42:39Rich Roll?

  Doesn't sound like the one he was talking about.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  Um, actually, when I, when we started talking, I wanted to ask you if you've heard of Luna's Living Kitchen, which doesn't sound like you have. It's, it's so funny that, okay, I'll tease about all the restaurants out here and all. And maybe it's just a hometown thing, but of like, I travel the country, right? And seek vegan, I've been to every.

• 1:42:59Rich Roll?

  You got the Happy Cow app?

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I could probably name drop all the vegan restaurants everywhere because I've been to them all. And Luna's Living Kitchen in Charlotte is like one of the best ones in the country. Like in terms of raw food and just like the healthy food. And then there's one called Fern.

• 1:43:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's the one I think I've heard of, yeah.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  That is, uh, that is just absolutely delicious. Like, it is a, it is, it's that kind of vegan restaurant that does a good job of replacing the, um, the non-vegan foods, you know? So like you've got the meat replacement type stuff, but it's like executive chef run. So you actually have creative dishes rather than like, oh, barbecue this or that. You know, it's like, it's actually creative, you know, original dishes. So they're really good.

• 1:43:49Rich Roll?

  Are you guys gonna make it down to like Santa Monica or Venice or Hollywood or anything like that?

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Um, we probably, we'll probably try to like, actually on our way over here. Um, I said, you know, we need to find like a, like a nice place to go to for dinner.

• 1:44:07Rich Roll?

  The nicest place is, is Crossroads.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  And where's that?

• 1:44:11Rich Roll?

  It's in, it's right in Hollywood, super fancy. Like, it's like high end, but it's.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  We ate at Millennium in San Francisco.

• 1:44:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's kind of on that vibe.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  We're, uh, we love those types.

• 1:44:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is very high end. Uh, Tal Ronan is the chef there and he's amazing. It's, it's considered like the best restaurant in LA, not vegan restaurant, just restaurant.

• 1:44:31Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:44:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And also if you want to see movie stars, that's the place to go.

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  We'll have to look. I mean, it's probably hard to get into, we'll have to get a. Reservation or something?

• 1:44:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, just call and get it. It shouldn't be that hard, but you should. I would check that out.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  So, Crossroads?

• 1:44:43Rich Roll?

  Crossroads.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  Alright, that's where we'll be Saturday night?

• 1:44:46Rich Roll?

  Cool. Gracias Madre is really good, too. It's also kind of in West Hollywood.

• 1:44:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:50Rich Roll?

  It's like, uh, it's Mexican, it's delicious. We were there last night for Tyler's birthday.

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  We were, when we were in San Francisco, there was a Mexican restaurant that was a vegan Mexican place.

• 1:45:00Rich Roll?

  That's Gracias Madre.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  Is it the same thing?

• 1:45:02Rich Roll?

  In the Mission?

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's the same thing. It's owned by the same people. Um, this one has kind of a different ambiance to it. It's very kind of like cool.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  We're very like small-town folk. Like, we, like, especially, it's so funny I'm the vegan.

• 1:45:15Rich Roll?

  Embrace your rock star racing identity.

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  The funny thing is, like, we, you know, when we go to, when we go to the West Coast and we go to San Francisco and LA and it's just like, God, it's part of your lifestyle out here to be plant-based. Like, people are just, you know, so much more open to it.

• 1:45:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  And so, when we were-

• 1:45:35Rich Roll?

  It's like AA. Like, out here, no, everyone's like, "Yeah, I'm in AA," but not-

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  When we were, when we were, when we were in San Francisco and ate at Gracias Madre, we just couldn't help but to look at each other and be like, "I thought Mexican restaurants were already halfway to vegan anyways."

• 1:45:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they kinda are, yeah.

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  You know, you take cheese and meat out and you get a vegan dish, right? And it was like, "This place is awesome. It's a vegan Mexican restaurant. Who'd have thought?" You know, we're like, this would, I mean, "How would this ever be in Charlotte, North Carolina? Like, it never would," but it is, uh, it was pretty cool. Like, we, we've, we had some pretty neat experiences traveling and, I feel, have you been to True Food? It's not like a dead-on vegan place, but-

• 1:46:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  It's a, I really, that's kind of a staple for us to go to, like, in the Phoenix-Dallas area, too. Um, there's one in Dallas and I'm just trying to, now I'm thinking of all the things we do when we travel and the restaurants that I've found. There's a Cafe Gratitude in Kansas City.

• 1:46:31Rich Roll?

  There is?

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:46:32Rich Roll?

  The same, the, by the same people?

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  I will eat there seven times in one weekend.

• 1:46:36Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's so good.

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  Cause they have, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, whatever.

• 1:46:39Rich Roll?

  It's really good.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  And then I'll bring one of their superfood granola bars or, um, chocolate bars with me with a racetrack and-

• 1:46:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's good.

• 1:46:54Rich Roll?

  So maybe as we're kind of starting to wind down here a little bit, you know, there's a lot of people that are interested in kind of the plant-based, you know, living and all that kind of stuff. And one of the things I always get is like, "Yeah, but I travel all the time, man. So there's just no way. It's too hard." And like, you travel. You travel as much as anybody and you're finding a way to make it work. So what are some of the like tips and tools that you use that might be helpful to people?

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  The first thing for me, especially if you're like a traveler that's gonna be there for a couple of days, if there isn't an obvious restaurant right off the bat, which actually restaurants, I mean, is in a lot of ways my second choice. I shoot for a great grocery store. And I mean, there's so many Whole Foods out there now. Like, they're all over the place. But there's also a lot more just natural food stores than you think. And believe it or not, like if you were to ask me, "What's the best places that you've found for eating clean and what are the worst places?" One of the worst places, the least success I had, was in Riverside, California, which

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  is, you know, so crazy because it's like we're so close, but yet Riverside is kind of, you know, a little bit of the armpit type, you know, area. And it just didn't, I just didn't have success there. But yet, one of the best places I've been to was in Scranton, Pennsylvania. You know, and there's no vegan restaurants in Scranton, Pennsylvania, but they have the greatest natural food store. And it just has everything you need in it. And I can go there, like I fly in to Scranton-Wilkes-Barre Airport and we stay in the mountains in Pocono when we race in Pocono. And I hit up this, now I can't even remember, I wish I could give them the name and give them the credit.

• 1:48:43Rich Roll?

  We'll find it. We'll put it in the show notes.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Yes, but it, but it just has everything I need for a weekend and for a traveler. And then the same other one that you would never think of is in Manchester, New Hampshire, when we race there up in Concord, New Hampshire, just outside of Boston. Again, I mean, up in the Northeast, there's no vegan restaurants or it's not in their culture at all. And yet, there's just these great natural food stores and...

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  I mean, you you get set up with organic fruits and vegetables and get some grains that you need and and you're set. So for for the for the people that kind of struggle, it's just like, you know, find a grocery store, get those, you know, get the clean stuff.

• 1:49:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, stay away from chains.

• 1:49:35Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I that's that's one thing we we've kind of like figured out with restaurants like the ones that have, I I mean, my turn, I'm sure there's a proper term for it, but it's just like, I try to find places that have a chef, you know, and it's like, will the chef make me a vegan dish, you know, and usually they usually they kind of enjoy that, like

• 1:49:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, finally they get to do something different.

• 1:49:56Speaker 01

  Exactly. Sometimes we go to places and it's like, oh, yes, all right, we made the most beautiful.

• 1:50:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  And they and they have a lot, some of the nice restaurants that you go to, I mean, they got stuff back there that they don't even serve on any other plates, but for some reason they've got it like this, you know, this great root vegetable or something, I mean. Um, so we kind of, we'll go into restaurants and, you know, pick at the chef a little bit sometimes.

• 1:50:20Rich Roll?

  That's smart. I mean, I think what I always say is like, if you're going to a new place, like you fly in before you even go to your hotel or wherever you're going, like, go to the market, you know, go to them and try to stay like if you're a business traveler, try to stay in in like one of those hotels that has a little kitchen in it or something, kitchenette.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:50:37Rich Roll?

  You know, yeah, you have to plan ahead a little bit, but it's like with an iPhone, you you know, you can sort all that stuff out pretty freaking easily.

• 1:50:44Speaker 01

  And for me, um, a big part of it in in to in to kind of encourage the people that get discouraged is like you just, you kind of have to just go with the flow and try it because um, because I told you earlier, I'm not a planner, right? So and and you you might be listening saying, well, I'm not a planner, you know, I can't show up at it. My wife does all my cooking and, you know, I can't just show up at a grocery store and buy all I need for the weekend, you know, I don't have time to do that. But like I I don't either, like, I don't just go to these grocery stores and just, you know, buy everything. But I've figured out through experience what I need, what I need now, or what I need in the morning to get me to the racetrack where I know Jackie will make me something or where I know.

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  There's gonna be a restaurant that I can get dinner, but I just gotta get through the day. So like I know that, I mean, my go to snack that will just hold me over is an apple and some Justin's peanut butter. Right? You know, like those are, you know, just something that.

• 1:51:44Rich Roll?

  It's pretty basic.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Something that's just basic, but has those kind of essential nutrients that you need. And, and, and if you can kind of get in that rhythm of like, okay, yeah, I'm not a planner and I'm not gonna go to the grocery store and have some elaborate groceries and I'm gonna keep it the holiday in. I, I at least know what I need to get through the evening or to get me to the morning. Because sometimes, I mean, one of the biggest challenges as a vegan is breakfast. You know, kind of separating what we know as breakfast is eggs and bacon and like what you should be eating for breakfast. So it's kind of tough to get started with breakfast and sometimes you can only eat oatmeal so many times.

• 1:52:22Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  And so, um, you know, sometimes it's just like, all I need is breakfast right now and then I can figure out what I'm gonna do the rest of the day.

• 1:52:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's good advice. So Fontana, what are you, what are you looking to accomplish this weekend?

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  I really like Fontana, so I, I definitely wanna have a good race. We, we had a really good weekend in Phoenix where we finished 22nd. And, um, for our team, anywhere between 20th to 25th is like a good day. Like, we're proud of that. 25th to 30th is, could be a good day, but it also could be disappointing. It depends on how the race played out. 30th or worse, we feel like, you know, in any circumstance, we should run better than 30th. So, um, so we'll go to Fontana and have the expectation of 25th or better. And, um, our team has some new cars this year.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  We've got a new engine program that we've invested in that, that has just more power and they're, uh, they're, it's just much better than what we had last year. So, um, even though we kind of dug ourselves in a little bit of a hole, the first couple of weeks, we're, we're just getting back into our rhythm. And Phoenix was really. Encouraging for us to run as well as we did there. So we just kind of want to follow it up in Fontana and just continue what we did there.

• 1:53:41Rich Roll?

  And what is that like a good track for you? Like what kind of track do you excel at? And like, what is that? You know, what is that all about? Like, you know, the differences in the tracks and how that favors, you know, some racers over others?

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  Um, I try to say I'm good at all of them. I try to be good at all of them. They, they all kind of require a little bit of a different driving style. And, and Phoenix is a short track. I mean, you know, heavy braking, you slow down into the corners and you got to accelerate out of the corners. And, and I do run really well at those racetracks consistently. Like I just always seem to run well at short tracks. They, they require a lot of technique. And, and Fontana is a really big, wide racetrack. There's, we kind of talked about it earlier. There's like six lanes. You can run high and low. And, and Fontana is tough because you're just constantly searching. Like your car will not handle the same two laps in a row, running the same line two laps in a row. Like it's just, you're just, you have

• 1:54:38Speaker 01

  to be ahead of it all the time. So, and it's also so big that the field always kind of stays on the same lap. They don't like, they don't get lapped and then the people behind you are a lap behind you. Like they're always kind of on your lap. So you're just, you're constantly being challenged by the cars behind you. So you can have a really good day and run all the way up into 15th, 16th, 17th position. And at the end of the day, if there's a caution and then there's a final restart and there's 35 cars in the lead lap.

• 1:55:07Rich Roll?

  It blows them.

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  You, you can still finish 35th.

• 1:55:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  You know, there's no like, there's no cushion where it's like, okay, we got 20 laps to go and the worst I'm going to do is 20th. Like it's, it's not like that. So you really, you have to race. It's a, Sunday is a 400 mile race. So you have to race all 400 miles of it because you can have a good day all the way up to mile 399 and then, you know, have a, make a mistake on the last lap and get passed by 10 cars.

• 1:55:35Rich Roll?

  Be on point the whole time.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, so it'll, it's interesting, but Fontana is, is really cool because the track is getting some age and racetracks get better with age. The more the pavement gets worn out, the more the cars slide around, the more it becomes a handling race and a driver skill race.

• 1:55:53Rich Roll?

  So it favors the driver that really knows how to drive.

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and when the tracks, when the tracks are brand new, um, and they have brand new, smooth pavement. They're really fast and they're exciting, um, but they just have so much grip that the fastest car usually prevails or can prevail. I mean, um, but I mean Fontana, if you turn on the TV, I mean, the cars are bouncing around, they're bottoming out, the drivers are getting jarred in their seats. You know, our seats are fully contained and we have these headrests that contain our helmets and they're bouncing around in it. So it's just, it's uncomfortable and...

• 1:56:29Rich Roll?

  And how much contact, like are you banging into the other cars?

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:33Rich Roll?

  Is that like?

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is crazy, especially, especially like Fontana because it's such a big track that like just on restarts, like the fuel just fans out and there's five wide and you're just bouncing off other people's doors. You try not to, um...

• 1:56:48Rich Roll?

  And then do you have to like replace panels on your car like all the time?

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we do. So if, I mean, if you bounce off of somebody's door and it dents it in, I mean, you gotta, you gotta replace it. It's, it's really at the big fast tracks, you don't want to hit any other cars because it kills the aerodynamics and you lose downforce and your car doesn't handle good. But in a couple of weeks, we'll go to Martinsville where the track is a half a mile and Fontana is a two mile track. Um, so you could fit four Martinsvilles inside of Fontana and in Martinsville. I mean, you pretty much the only way to pass another car is to nerf them out of the way. So it's, uh, we go from one extreme to the other.

• 1:57:26Rich Roll?

  Right. And what's the big, like, what's the A race? Like what's the, what's the biggest race?

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  The Daytona 500.

• 1:57:31Rich Roll?

  Daytona.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's, uh, but then we, we come up on, we race in Daytona twice, which the 500 in February is the biggest one. And, uh, and then in July, we have the, the Firecracker 400, which is a big race, uh, which is the classic name. I think it's called the Cook Zero 400 or something. Um, and then, uh, we do get to race at the Brickyard in Indianapolis, which is cool. So...

• 1:57:53Rich Roll?

  That's cool. And do you think like you're gonna stay in NASCAR or do, would you ever make the leap to a different kind of, you know, car racing, like Indy car and?

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  No, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I...

• 1:58:05Rich Roll?

  How does that work? Do, do drivers move around in between or is it once you're in, you pick one and that's your thing?

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  They do. Um, it's, drivers have moved around, but, um...

• 1:58:16Speaker 01

  You know, kind of tooting our own horn a little bit. They, if they do move, they're usually trying to get to NASCAR.

• 1:58:22Rich Roll?

  Towards you.

• 1:58:22Speaker 01

  Um, drivers don't all, don't often go away from NASCAR. I mean, they, they kind of do. I mean, there's some drivers that have been in and out, but.

• 1:58:30Rich Roll?

  Do they ever go to Formula One though?

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:58:32Rich Roll?

  That's a whole different world.

• 1:58:33Speaker 01

  See, drivers haven't gone from NASCAR to Formula One. They've gone from Formula One to NASCAR.

• 1:58:37Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  Um, and I think it's just, there's just so much money in NASCAR. It's such a big sport and it's, the drivers make so much money like at the top and, and, um, I mean, it's the, you know, we just, NASCAR just signed a billion dollar a year TV contract. I mean, it's just like stupid money and it's, so it's hugely popular and, and people are, you know, definitely seeking our sport and, and, um, I mean, Indy cars are really cool and I've, I've like thought about it and, um, but I don't know if I could seriously.

• 1:59:05Rich Roll?

  Have you ever driven any, have you ever like done laps in that?

• 1:59:07Speaker 01

  Never, never driven in Indy car, no. Um, it would be interesting.

• 1:59:11Rich Roll?

  You gotta at least, you gotta at least get behind the wheel, right?

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  Try one. Um, but I don't know. I think I'd like to be, like have my career wrapped up sometime after, shortly after 40.

• 1:59:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  I think I got another 20 years in me.

• 1:59:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:24Speaker 01

  So a lot, I mean, that's a long career as an athlete. I mean, and NASCAR drivers have long careers, but just, you know, to travel that long and, you know, by that time my kids will be, you know, grown up and.

• 1:59:35Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:59:36Rich Roll?

  Well dude, you've been, you started when you were 16. You've been in NASCAR, you know?

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  I know. This is my ninth, this, so it's, this is my ninth annual credential. We call it a hard card. It's my ninth hard card. I got one when I was 17. And 18, 19, 20, one, two, three, four, five. It's my ninth hard card.

• 1:59:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:56Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:59:56Rich Roll?

  What do you, uh, what do you just, what do you kick around town in? Like, do you have like a fancy, like, what is it like when you're like, this is a question for Katie actually. Slide the mic over to her. What's it like to be in the passenger seat when he's driving just around the streets of Charlotte?

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  Um, that's funny that you ask because he got a lot of speeding tickets when we first started dating and were first married. Cause he was driving.

• 2:00:20Rich Roll?

  He's being all cold trickle?

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  He was driving BW, or BMWs and fast cars and then he switched over to family vehicle. It's been a lot better.

• 2:00:29Rich Roll?

  Right. Like around, around the time you got pregnant maybe? Yeah.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  My, my wife, my wife drives a nice car in the family.

• 2:00:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  And, uh, I drive a Honda Civic actually.

• 2:00:39Rich Roll?

  Do you?

• 2:00:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So.

• 2:00:42Rich Roll?

  That's hilarious.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  It's a car, yep. I, you know, I told you, I grew up in the car business.

• 2:00:47Rich Roll?

  You must be the only guy in NASCAR who drives a Honda Civic.

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  Maybe, I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't like fall in love with cars. Like, I just don't. You know, I don't know.

• 2:00:57Rich Roll?

  You're not like, are you like rebuilding an old GTO in your garage or anything like that?

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 2:01:02Rich Roll?

  Romantic.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Don't even have a garage. We have a house and no garage in Charlotte. Uh, but yeah, no, I drive a Honda Civic. She, she drives a nice car though. And, you know, I don't know. I, I like cool cars, but I just don't fall, growing up in the car business and stuff and, you know, seeing the values drop. And I don't fall in love with things, so.

• 2:01:20Rich Roll?

  Do you have, do you have like toys, like motorcycles and boats and stuff like that?

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  Got an expensive bicycle, that's about it.

• 2:01:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, your tri bike, right?

• 2:01:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:29Rich Roll?

  What kind, what kind of tri bike you riding?

• 2:01:31Speaker 01

  I've got a P5.

• 2:01:32Rich Roll?

  Ah, nice.

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  It's really nice, yep, so. I'm not like on any sponsored bike deal or anything. I haven't like seeked one out or anything like that. I didn't really, you know, I, I kinda, I wanted a nice bike, so I, um, I had a friend that, uh, that's a dealer that kinda hooked me up with a, a discount on the Servelo, cause, um, cause it's, I mean, it's a really nice high end bike. Um, but, you know, like I didn't really wanna like call around, like swing it, you know? At, at the time when I started, I was like, you know, I didn't even know if I was a triathlete yet, you know? It's like, so I'm like trying to get some free stuff.

• 2:02:07Rich Roll?

  Do you know, uh, do you know Dave Mira?

• 2:02:10Speaker 01

  Um, I don't, but I think he like tweeted at me or Instagrammed at me when, uh, Jimmy Johnson and I and Joshua is another NASCAR driver. We did a half Ironman together in Ja- January, but he's from North Car- or he lives in North Carolina.

• 2:02:22Rich Roll?

  He lives in North Carolina.

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  I follow him on Instagram.

• 2:02:23Rich Roll?

  He's super, yeah, he's super.

• 2:02:25Speaker 01

  He's into it.

• 2:02:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he's super, I mean, he's treating it like he's a professional triathlete.

• 2:02:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:30Rich Roll?

  And he's an amazing brand ambassador for Servelo. I think he did the same like you. He just, he went and bought it and fell in love with it, but he was sharing it so much on his Instagram and everything like that.

• 2:02:40Speaker 01

  They were like, we gotta pay you for this.

• 2:02:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we gotta, we gotta rope this guy in, you know, like, but it was a good, they should because he's an amazing guy and.

• 2:02:47Speaker 01

  He's a, he is a great ambassador. And do you see him on the rollers and stuff, what he's doing?

• 2:02:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like he, yeah, he pull, he pops up on the roll.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess he ought to. He's a pro BMX rider.

• 2:02:57Rich Roll?

  Exactly, exactly. You gotta get out and do some training with him.

• 2:03:00Speaker 01

  That would be awesome.

• 2:03:01Rich Roll?

  How far away? Where in North Carolina is he?

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  So he's in. I can't remember if he's in Greenville or Greensboro, but I think he's he's as close as an hour and a half and probably a tops two, two and a half hours.

• 2:03:12Rich Roll?

  Oh, you should, you should go.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  Definitely hook up with him.

• 2:03:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:15Speaker 01

  So get a couple of training sessions in. We, we trained, so like my closest friend in, in kind of our circle is Josh Wise, who's another, he's a driver. And he's a, he's a triathlete and he's been a triathlete longer than I have. So, so we kind of, um, I've caught up to him a little bit though, to the point that we can kind of like, compete with each other a little and, and, and we're always one upping each other. And it is funny, you talk about like all the toys and stuff like, I bought Norma Tech boots before he did. And so like, as soon as I bought them and then like,

• 2:03:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you go get them.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Oh, he went and got them. And then like, he shows up with like, some new like, you know, beet recovery drink and he's like, you know, just check this out. And I'm like, oh my gosh, where'd you get that? Yeah, we're in different, well, the best part is we're in different age groups. So we train together and we race together, but not really against each other.

• 2:04:10Rich Roll?

  Gotcha.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  We do, but we don't.

• 2:04:11Rich Roll?

  Gotcha. So what's, so what are you training for? What, what triathlon race?

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  So I'm, I'm doing a Montreblanc half in June.

• 2:04:20Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 2:04:20Speaker 01

  And, uh, and the goal is to qualify for the half worlds, which is in Austria. So, um, I would probably, I mean, I, I guess I, you know, it rolls off the tongue so easy that I say that I'm going to Montreblanc and I'm going to try to qualify for worlds, but, um, I mean, I've got, I've got to get fitter than I was in January to do it. So it's a tall order. I probably got a 5% chance of making it, but.

• 2:04:44Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, you're juggling so many different things. Plus you're about to be a dad.

• 2:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:49Rich Roll?

  Pretty soon here, so.

• 2:04:50Speaker 01

  Pretty psyched about that.

• 2:04:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's exciting. Do you know if it's a boy or a girl?

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  We don't.

• 2:04:54Rich Roll?

  You don't? Ah, old school.

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  Old school, yeah.

• 2:04:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, your wife Julie said she knows.

• 2:05:02Rich Roll?

  Oh, she does. Yeah, Julie's very intuitive that way.

• 2:05:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I told her she needs to write it down and mail it to us or something and we'll.

• 2:05:09Rich Roll?

  She'll do that, too.

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  And we'll open it like the day of and see if, see if she's right or something.

• 2:05:14Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  That would actually be fun.

• 2:05:16Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 2:05:18Speaker 01

  So, well, thank you so much.

• 2:05:19Rich Roll?

  All right, man. Well, that was, that was cool, man. I think we did it.

• 2:05:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, this was wonderful. What a day.

• 2:05:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so awesome of you guys to come over here. I really appreciate it. You guys are delightful. Absolutely delightful. Yeah, I'm so excited for your new addition to your family. And have a great race this weekend, man. I wish I could go and like, thank you so much for inviting me to come down. I got, I have a wedding this weekend, so I gotta go up to Santa Barbara. I'm gonna ride, I'm gonna ride my bike to Santa Barbara tomorrow.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Are you really? How far?

• 2:05:50Rich Roll?

  Meet up there. It's like 70, 80 miles or something like that from here. Yeah, doing it with a group of friends, so.

• 2:05:56Speaker 01

  That'd be cool.

• 2:05:57Rich Roll?

  That should be cool, but.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  So you travel a lot, though, right?

• 2:06:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I've been traveling quite a bit.

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:06:02Rich Roll?

  I might see, I'm going to speak at the US Olympic Training Center in like two weeks to the USA Swimming National Junior Team.

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 2:06:13Rich Roll?

  I think Dave Marsh might be there. I'm not sure. I know there's, but there's gonna be some of the, you know, some of the elite coaches are gonna be there. I'll have to check and see if he is, but if he's there, I'm, I'm gonna.

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:22Rich Roll?

  Say hey to him and tell him that we hooked up.

• 2:06:25Speaker 01

  Definitely. He'll tell you, tell you about my stroke or something.

• 2:06:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you gotta get, you gotta get Ron Lochte down and get, you know, in your car, you know what I mean?

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that'd probably be easier to get Tyler Clary in when he's more interested in the racing, but.

• 2:06:40Rich Roll?

  Is he? Interesting.

• 2:06:41Speaker 01

  But those guys are really, those guys, that group is really nice. They're all, every time I swim, they're always like, kind of like, I'll finish a set and they'll be like, you need to, you know, this, that.

• 2:06:53Rich Roll?

  Oh, they're helping you out?

• 2:06:54Speaker 01

  They're always pretty cool, yeah.

• 2:06:55Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 2:06:56Speaker 01

  He's, he's, Dave, Dave works them pretty hard, though. It's pretty, it's just amazing to watch those guys swim, like just the elite swimmers. I mean, you can. You can go, you can go to a golf event and watch Tiger Woods hit a ball and you can watch LeBron James play basketball up close, but like you can't actually do it with them, you know, but like in Charlotte, and I'm sure there's other swim clubs around the country where, you know, if you knew when those guys practiced, you could, but like, I mean, they, I don't know if they would get mad at me, they practice at Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8 a.m.

• 2:07:26Rich Roll?

  Uh, now everyone's gonna start rush.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  I mean, but really, and everybody knows, I mean, it's, they've got their own lanes and then the rest of it is public.

• 2:07:32Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  And you can swim in the lane next to those guys and compare yourself and it's like, I can't even, you know, I can't even sprint as fast as their aerobic speed, you know?

• 2:07:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's amazing and I just, you know, I swam at a pretty high level, but now when I see what those guys are doing, like, I can't even fathom like the times that they're going, like, it's a completely different sport.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  It, it reaches a point where, like, watching them isn't about strength and speed, it's just about efficiency. Like, just, it's just the amount of strokes that they take.

• 2:08:02Rich Roll?

  Right, or just, just watch Ryan Lochte, you know, dolphin kick underwater on his back.

• 2:08:07Speaker 01

  Oh, it's crazy.

• 2:08:08Rich Roll?

  The economy of motion, like, it's, his body's barely moving and he's going faster than he can swim on the surface.

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:15Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 2:08:17Rich Roll?

  It's an extraordinary thing, so you're in good hands.

• 2:08:19Speaker 01

  We could talk forever.

• 2:08:20Rich Roll?

  I know, we could. Cool, well, uh, best of luck in the race.

• 2:08:23Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 2:08:24Rich Roll?

  This weekend, that's exciting, I'll be cheering from afar and, uh, enjoy the rest of your time in Southern California.

• 2:08:30Speaker 01

  We will.

• 2:08:31Rich Roll?

  If you guys wanna hook up with Landon, they can go to your website, Landon, is it Casil? How do you say your last name?

• 2:08:38Speaker 01

  Landon Castle.

• 2:08:39Rich Roll?

  Castle, Landon Castle, two S's, two, and then I, L, L.

• 2:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:43Rich Roll?

  And then you're just Landon Castle on Instagram.

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  Twitter and Instagram, yeah.

• 2:08:46Rich Roll?

  And all those kind of places, so give them a shout.

• 2:08:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty cool and I've, uh, been pretty into Instagram lately.

• 2:08:52Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  Um, I kinda missed the Instagram boom. But I was in Instagram early and then I missed the boom, like I just wasn't active in it. And I've liked Instagram because I really connect with people in it because, you know, people post their own photos. So typically when people like my photos, I'll like look at your profile and if you post some cool photos, I'll like one. So I do that and then Twitter is the same and it's just my name, it's a hashtag.

• 2:09:19Rich Roll?

  I like your Instagram because it's like, it's this juxtaposition of like, super intense race car racing and then like you training. You're like transparent with like, you're at the pool, you're running, you know, it's like an active lifestyle.

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty fun. I've kind of created this habit of just like carrying my little lens that I put on my iPhone with me, a little tripod, and I try to take a picture and just get good content and some people seem to enjoy it.

• 2:09:42Rich Roll?

  Good stuff, man.

• 2:09:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:44Rich Roll?

  Alright dude.

• 2:09:45Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 2:09:45Rich Roll?

  Thank you.

• 2:09:46Speaker 01

  Alright, thanks for this movie too.

• 2:09:47Rich Roll?

  Peace. Plants.

• 2:09:55Rich Roll?

  Nice guy, right? Oh my God, such a nice guy and so inspiring. So I really enjoyed that and I hope you guys did too. So give me a solid, let's give Landon a shout out on Twitter or Facebook to put a little wind in his sails for his post Coca-Cola 600 14 mile run. That would be really cool. And let me know what you thought of this episode in the comments section on the episode page at richroll.com. Hey, listen, our new cookbook and lifestyle guide, The Plant Power Way, it's out, people are loving it. We've got 130 reviews on Amazon at the moment that I'm recording this, 124 of which are five star, overwhelming support. I'm so grateful for all the incredible feedback

• 2:10:36Rich Roll?

  and for everybody who's been sharing the enjoyment of the recipes. I really love all the Instagramming. People are preparing the recipes and it's such an amazing feeling to see a little slice of our life start to make a difference in other people's life. I'm so glad people are liking it. It just warms my heart and that's why we wrote the book. So if you have yet to check out the book, you can pick up a copy at your favorite. Online retailer, but I'd much prefer it if you go to your local independent bookseller. Let's support our independent bookstores, you guys. Also, I think it's important to talk to your librarian, go to your local library, see if they have it on order yet, or if it's in the library. If not, tell them that you'd like them to order it.

• 2:11:19Rich Roll?

  And usually librarians will immediately order it. They want to have the books on hand that people are interested in perusing, and that way, people that might not be able to afford the books still have an opportunity to check it out. So, thanks for all the love. Thank you for sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues. And again, thank you for using the Amazon banner at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. We're going to be doing some Q and A episodes coming up soon, so if you have a question that you would like me to answer, email it to [email protected]. Also, if you're not doing so already, follow me on Twitter, I'm @richroll there. I started doing relatively frequent Periscope Q and A chat.

• 2:12:01Rich Roll?

  So, Periscope, if you don't know, is a live broadcasting app that kind of operates through Twitter, where I kind of broadcast live and take questions from followers and audience members. And I'm really enjoying that. It's a really fun way for me to connect with you guys a little bit more intimately and in real time. So, I'll be scheduling some of those over the next week, and I'm going to try to make that a part of my regular routine. For all the information, education products, tools, resources, and inspiration you need to take your health, your wellness, your fitness, your self-actualization to the next level, go to richroll.com, check out our nutrition products, our educational products,

• 2:12:41Rich Roll?

  our books, and yes, our garments, all made with 100% organic cotton, not carton, cotton. And we have some new garments in development right now. We're going to be coming out soon with some cool new t-shirts, tank tops, and hoodies. So, stay tuned for that, and I'll be making announcements about that when it comes to fruition. If you dig online courses, I've got two of those at mindbodygreen.com, The Art of Living with Purpose, which is all about goal-setting, unlocking that authentic, best version ...of yourself, and also The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is about three and a half hours of how we do what we do with respect to food, diet, nutrition, and athletic performance. It kind of takes a tip from our book, The Plant Power Way, but kind of shows you tools

• 2:13:25Rich Roll?

  and ways of really implementing that to make that lifestyle shift. So you can go there, again, it's at mindbodygreen.com. Thanks for supporting the show. Thanks for telling a friend. Thank you for sharing it on social media, spreading the word. That's how we grow this pirate ship, so I appreciate that. And I will see you guys in a few, so make it a great week, everybody. Peace. Plants.