The Fitness Expert: They’re LYING To You About Building Muscle! | Dr Mike Israetel

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:25Speaker 01

  Emotions felt really strongly can instantly transfer into a ton of strength.

• 0:33Jack Selby?

  How would someone cross from not loving the gym to actually enjoying the time spent in the gym?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  As you come to the gym and your body changes, you look in the mirror like, oh my God, I'm like becoming a superhero.

• 0:42Graham Stephan?

  Should anyone work out seven days a week?

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Is it the best idea in the world? No, I would not say it is.

• 0:47Speaker 04

  Mr. Mike, he knows that what he's doing to his body is stupid.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  If I fall off tomorrow, Greg will never make another video about me again. And so my IQ is above 160. We don't know how high because they don't do standardized IQ tests above that.

• 1:01Jack Selby?

  How do you know that to be true?

• 1:02Speaker 01

  I took the Ravens Advanced Progressive Matrix IQ test. I got every single problem correct.

• 1:06Graham Stephan?

  Why is the carnivore diet so bad?

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's tough.

• 1:14Jack Selby?

  Dr. Mike Israetel, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Huge pleasure. Thank you for having me.

• 1:19Jack Selby?

  First and foremost, I need to know what was going on in this video.

• 1:31Graham Stephan?

  Was that necessary?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Yes. When you have the kind of aura that I was having in that video, you no longer have the bandwidth to filter the noises coming out. And all you feel is the serenity of true real pleasure running through your body. And when you've had that much pleasure, you start to scream.

• 1:52Jack Selby?

  Why were you screaming while doing hamstring curls? Of all of the workouts, I feel like that someone would scream during. A hamstring curl would probably not be the first on the list.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  I think that's probably one of the reasons why that video went so viral. I screamed in plenty of workouts, but that one maybe like I screamed a lot more than usual.

• 2:09Graham Stephan?

  Were you playing it up at all?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:12Jack Selby?

  You weren't?

• 2:13Speaker 01

  No, I was very upset. That was actually me being very upset.

• 2:15Jack Selby?

  That's so fascinating because from a viewer's perspective, I see that video and I find it hilarious. But for you, that could have-

• 2:21Speaker 01

  So what's funny about it?

• 2:22Graham Stephan?

  You know what? You know what's funny? Nelk used to do videos like this back in the day where they'd go to the gym and have like a little tiny weight. They would do and like scream, ah!

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, mind you, that's like my home gym, so there's nobody to hear that. I would never do that in a public gym. It's too much volume.

• 2:39Jack Selby?

  Well, if I'm at the gym and I'm doing a workout and the guy next to me is like talking to himself and like doing that whole thing, it's a little freaky.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45Jack Selby?

  You know, and so I just imagine going to the gym and seeing someone do hamstring curls. And also the funniest part is it, it, it looks like you have a few reps in reserve. Like it doesn't look like you're like on your last rep and you're like really pumping out. It looks like you're like, like just getting started.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:02Jack Selby?

  So I think for me that it was just like, it's just very absurd, you know?

• 3:05Speaker 01

  The, uh, I would have stopped like six reps short. The emotional intensity was so high that I was able to continue going precisely because of the fact that the emotions were so high and thus the screaming and the not hitting failures too.

• 3:21Jack Selby?

  Do you think that it's very true, like the classic story of a guy gets his heartbroken when he's dating a girl or something like that, and then he's able to like leverage that into the gym? Do you find that emotions, when felt very strongly, can immediately translate into just like bigger gains?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Emotions felt really strongly can instantly transfer into a ton of strength for reps, even for a max right there in the moment. So like in powerlifting, you can take your emotions and purposefully put them on a little mini roller coaster right at the time that you need to hit your big lift. And that makes a big difference. The problem is that it comes with, for most folks, an unbelievable amount of fatigue. Like, you guys ever have like a real like come to Jesus emotional like fight with someone close to you? Afterwards, you're not exactly energized. You're like drained in a crazy, crazy way. And so people who, let's say get their heartbroken, Stacy just wouldn't go out with you.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  And you go and try to put that into the gym, in my experience, haven't done some distant version of that. I just end up after several days feeling so empty because I kind of got all the emotions out. But my program is like, you need to still do more work. And I'm like, oh, but I've, I don't feel any more motivated. I feel drained. And so I think the emotions of anger and revenge, frustration, they're like really cool vibes wise to get into the gym and do a couple of big lifts. But if you continuously go to that well, especially in bodybuilding training, which is like sets and reps, then I, in my experience, at least for me, I just run out and I'm like, ah, I don't have any more motivation.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  So for me, the enjoyment of the lift and the challenge of the lift and the focus on the lift itself and on the contracting musculature, that's what for me really gets like the good vibe. And it doesn't tire me out like crazy and it's super positive. So like if you had a bad experience with Stacy, she broke your heart, you go to the gym. Let's say you have just oodles of emotional psychic energy about Stacy being a bad person. You're gonna, at some point, the gym is therapy. And so every workout or every even month you go, you're like a little bit more over Stacy. Because first of all, you barely remember how her face looked at that point. But also like you're, it's really working, like you're really getting out all of that stuff, getting the gunk out, like screaming in the gym.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  And it's like, you just run completely out of that psychic energy. And at some point, someone's like, you're still in the gym? What's motivating you? You're like, the breakup, I think? Um, I actually don't care anymore. You don't want that to happen because the gym is the long-term, the gym is for decades. And so you have to find a sustainable way to motivate yourself in the gym. It can't be hamstring screaming. That's not sustainable. Is you cannot do that every day. It's going to insanely high fatigue. And eventually you're going to run out of it. And so the better thing to have in the gym is a more positive approach. An approach of loving being there, loving the results, loving the action, being a precision machine of lifting so that every single rep and set you finish, you're like, oh, man, I'm not being drained of anything when I do this.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  I feel enlivened by doing this. That will sustain you for a very, very long time and make the whole process super fun. And the probability of getting hurt is real low. You freak out like that on something like a deadlift and your technique goes crazy because you're just having a lot of emotions, you can get yourself hurt real fast. Super high force production, very limited motor control, great, great recipe for injury. So like, while it is a thing that people get their heartbroken and then go to the gym and kind of fix it up, I just like, if I talk to somebody who was a gammon, I'm in here because Stacy broke my heart. And if I was their coach or trainer, I would try to get them to be like, listen, I know Stacy or you, we hate her. We hate Stacy. Let's try to get you in the gym to do more of a positive framing, a mindset that'll keep you coming back instead of just running out of the thing that like hurt you to bring you in here.

• 7:18Jack Selby?

  Do you love the gym, Graham?

• 7:20Graham Stephan?

  I do. I find it so relaxing. I come up with some of my best ideas in the gym. Like I look forward to it. And part of it is I frame it in a way where I could download YouTube videos. I do my research and like I could watch those YouTube videos on the treadmill. Where I get to listen to a podcast while I'm lifting weights.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Solid. Very solid.

• 7:38Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Jack Selby?

  Interesting. And for someone who doesn't love the gym, you think that it's probably an important part of getting gains, seeing progress is loving the gym? How would someone cross from not loving the gym and going in there not for the process, just because they think it's healthy, to actually enjoying the time spent in the gym?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  There's a couple of things to do about it. One is to architect your goals in such a way that you would like achieving them. So like, some people have goals in the gym of like get in shape, which is like so nebulous that you're like, am I in shape? What isn't in shape? But if you architect your goals such that you're emphasizing the muscle groups you really want to look cool on yourself. As you come to the gym and your body changes, you look in the mirror like, oh my God, I'm like becoming a superhero sort of. Man, that gets addicting and it keeps you coming back. Another thing is to find the sets and reps and exercise schemes that you really like. Like some machines you're gonna like more than others. So you pick the ones that are really effective, lean into the ones you like a lot, and all of a sudden like you're really looking forward to workouts. Another one is picking the duration of the workout that you like. Some people like long workouts, some people like shorter workouts, but more often.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Another thing, huge thing is to do training partners that are your friends. If you have someone to train with, that's also your friend and you talk smack between sets, just BS, it could just be an unbelievable time hanging out with friends. And if you like to listen to stuff on your headphones, music can help and stuff like that. But a lot of it is about starting to go just habitually. And then at the very least, not framing the gym in your mind as something you hate and have to check a box for. At least leave it neutral. You guys know some stuff, you're like, I just have to get this done. Like getting your car oil changed. You're not like psyched about it. You're like, as soon as this is over, this is gonna be awesome. Some people go down that road with the gym. That's a recipe for burnout.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  So whatever you do at the gym, at the very least, don't think of it as like, don't clock watch. You know, like, ah, it's just another three sets. Thank God. Try to really enjoy the process of what you're there for. And over time, you could build a feedback loop where you're having a good time, you're having good results. You're having a good time, you're having good results. That builds on itself. And then someone's like, what's the gym like? And you're like, I love the gym. It's a great place. And you don't even know why. You feel that you like the gym. Why? So you're having a great time and getting great results. Those things will eventually feed that beast.

• 9:57Jack Selby?

  So for those who are unfamiliar with you, I personally am not, I love the channel. But what should the viewer know about you and why should they listen?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Oh gee whiz, I used to be a professor of exercise and sports science. I'm a competitive bodybuilder, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu grappler. And I'm on YouTube teaching people how to lift weights and eat right and take supplements properly so that they get the most out of their physique and look their best.

• 10:18Jack Selby?

  Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, could you beat Graham up?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 10:21Graham Stephan?

  Definitely not, Jack. Come on.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 10:24Graham Stephan?

  Do you see, do you see this?

• 10:26Jack Selby?

  I do see that and I'm not even, I saw your biceps today for the first time in quite a while. And I will say they did actually impress me. I was, I was very impressed.

• 10:34Graham Stephan?

  I got a sleeper build. That's a thing.

• 10:36Jack Selby?

  Inactuality, is that a thing to be proud of?

• 10:39Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 10:39Jack Selby?

  Inactuality. Inactuality, I'm curious, how many grams would it take to put up a fight against you?

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Have you trained in combat sport?

• 10:47Graham Stephan?

  No, but I'm, I'm kind of agile and I could dodge pretty easily.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Okay. No weapons?

• 10:54Graham Stephan?

  No weapons. No weapons. It's just fists and, you know.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Fists and claws.

• 10:58Graham Stephan?

  Fingernails and-

• 10:59Jack Selby?

  He'll use toenails. He'll fight dirty.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Fight dirty. Okay, that, that's a good thing. How much do you weigh?

• 11:04Graham Stephan?

  130.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  How many grams am I like safe up until that point?

• 11:11Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Three?

• 11:15Jack Selby?

  Honestly, yeah, like if I were you, I'd be pretty stoked with that answer.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Good. Yeah, yeah. Could have been like 10, you know, like really.

• 11:21Graham Stephan?

  So I'm curious, because I always like talking about the money and the finance side of things. How is your business broken down? How do you make money?

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Well, I do. I go to work and Mr. Nick Shaw, the co-founder of RP, he'll send me lunch money so that I can eat. And he covers my rent and he says, later money is coming. I trust him.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  All right. And that's the coffee I.

• 11:43Jack Selby?

  But you do make like an income, like where are you building enterprise value? Where are you building net worth? Where are you making money?

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Most of my money comes in through RP strength. Most of that money comes through our software suite of Diet Coach app and training app. And that's how I make most of my money.

• 12:01Graham Stephan?

  What's the most that you've made in a single day?

• 12:03Speaker 01

  There was one month in my career where I made over $500,000. And that was a something that was confusing to look at on a piece of paper. But at the same time, I don't spend hardly any of my money. It just gets invested. And so I don't have like a big desire to spend money. So to me, at some point, it's just all numbers. And I didn't know what to feel about it. Should I feel proud about this? Should I feel giddy about this? I'm constantly working towards a certain set of financial goals, which are entirely arbitrary. And so it's just a small drop in the bucket to those goals. And so all of that stuff's in my head at the same time, kind of like, oh, yeah, cool.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  And then I just like later that day, I just did the same stuff I would any day. Didn't really have an effect. I had a chance to meet a billionaire a little while back. And I asked him what it was like after he got a massive income boost. And he told me a story about how he had architecting a deal that pushed him from, I think, something like a half billion in net worth to over one in one deal. And I was like, how did it feel? And he was like, I went home, I was, I talked to my wife about this deal incessantly over months. Cause it was a big thing, right? Six hundred thousand dollar deal or 600 million dollar deal. It's a big deal. She's like, I came home, I didn't even tell my wife that the deal went through.

• 13:29Jack Selby?

  Smart.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  She's like, yeah, some money. And he's like, had dinner with the family, tucked the kids in or whatever, and just like, never spoke about it, never came up. Nothing ever happened. It was like the next day, it's the same thing. And I was like, okay, I gotta remember that if I ever have some kind of equity thing happen and I get a big influx of money. Like note to self, do not expect to feel better. And I've had this conversation with a few other folks that have a lot of money and they all say basically the same thing. That like, you're working and hoping towards the money is feels like a certain way. Once you get the money, it's typically just doesn't feel like anything. If you expect it, it doesn't feel like anything. You're gonna have a fine time. If you really expect that you're gonna feel tons better and everything's gonna be amazing.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  You are in for probably kind of a time where you're like, what the hell is like, what is, what is this? Like, why don't I feel anything? I've heard that a bunch. And to the extent that I've made some money, I would say it's frighteningly accurate. I am very motivated by money. I think money's an amazing thing. But the idea of making money feels like much more than, once you've actually made it. The human brain typically switches to, okay, what's next? Like way faster than maybe he would want or be able to believe. Does that make sense?

• 14:46Jack Selby?

  Like people think once they get a big payday that they're gonna be like sitting in their bathtub with all of the money they just collected. Like throwing it around, like laughing.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  That's how I thought it worked.

• 14:54Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  And then it turns out like the work that you do to make that money is really involved. But then once the money hits the account, you're like, oh, okay. Okay, I have more money now. Okay. This is oddly quiet. You're like, huh.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Maybe I'll make more money in the future and I'll feel differently about it. But so far, that has been my experience.

• 15:16Jack Selby?

  But there must be an actual quality of life difference as you start making more and more income. At what point does the quality of life not really continue to be tied to your income?

• 15:27Graham Stephan?

  And we're talking about what happens after the money hits your account. But if you're starting a business, there's a lot to figure out before you even get that first payment.

• 15:34Jack Selby?

  And one of the basics is making sure that people can actually find you, look up your business and feel comfortable reaching out. And that's something our partner Northwest Registered Agent helps you get started with for free.

• 15:43Graham Stephan?

  What's great about this is that they give you a domain, a website, business email, and a dedicated business phone line. So you literally don't have to purchase anything, be a paying customer, or even form an LLC.

• 15:54Jack Selby?

  Which I like because you can actually start building a professional presence without paying for all of those basics upfront or putting your personal phone number everywhere.

• 16:00Graham Stephan?

  Plus even better, your domain and website belong to you so that you could move them elsewhere. Northwest just wants to support you as you grow while keeping you independent, even if you don't end up buying anything from them.

• 16:11Jack Selby?

  So if you've been thinking about starting a business, get those basics put in place for free at northwestregisteredagent.com/ICH.

• 16:18Graham Stephan?

  That's northwestregisteredagent.com/ICH, or you could click the link down below in the description to get started today.

• 16:24Jack Selby?

  At what point does the quality of life not really continue to be tied to your income?

• 16:30Speaker 01

  So like, I've been very blessed that in the last some number of basically a decade, I've made considerably over a million dollars every year.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  And I typically, left to my own devices,

• 16:47Speaker 01

  will never spend more than about $250,000 a year, all, all expenses, living expenses, everything. And that's a figure that's boosted a lot by like vacation fund, which I always give money to, but don't really use. And so the actual figure that I live for is like typically less than that. And I have like a few expenses that are very high. And I feel constantly guilty about them existing, but I really prefer to have them.

• 17:16Jack Selby?

  What are those expenses?

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Rent on an apartment. I have a car that's a lot of money. I pay $1,300.

• 17:27Jack Selby?

  What car is that?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  A Tesla Model S Plaid. It's the single greatest vehicle I have ever been in.

• 17:32Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I would not feel bad about that.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  What are you nuts? Cause which one of you guys is Jewish?

• 17:38Graham Stephan?

  Both, technically we're both.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  You should feel real bad about the $1,300 lease. I feel terrible every day.

• 17:46Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but it's a write-off, right?

• 17:46Jack Selby?

  But think about it this way.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Yes, but you can't write off the whole of it. Like it's still.

• 17:50Jack Selby?

  It's eight times.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  But it's, if it's that, the money.

• 17:55Graham Stephan?

  Forty percent cheaper.

• 17:56Jack Selby?

  If you're on full self-driving, you think about it this way, the most valuable thing isn't your money, but it's your life. If you're on full self-driving, you're eight times safer than an undistracted driver. And you're 25 times safer than a distracted driver.

• 18:08Graham Stephan?

  Look at, look at Jack quoting Jason.

• 18:10Jack Selby?

  I'm just saying, Jason, I'm like, I literally, Jason, I'm, you know, if you're watching this, he posted, he's definitely not. He posted a story on his Instagram saying, I got full self-driving and I'm buying everyone I know Teslas. I'm not doing that, but he's doing it because it's very safe. And he quoted those statistics. I hope I'm getting them right.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yes, you are.

• 18:26Jack Selby?

  And for me, as soon as I heard that, I'm like, okay, well, I am an undistracted driver. Admittedly, maybe 50% of the time, and then 50% of the time I'm like on my phone, getting back to a text, like doing whatever. And so I'm like, this is insane that I'm even taking this risk. It puts up my own life and other people's lives in danger. And so I'm just gonna do what, what is safe here.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:44Jack Selby?

  So I think it's totally justified. Like $1,300 a month is.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  So all of this is technically justified, but I can still have my Jewish feelings about it, you know? Don't invalidate my, my genetics. So I have the apartment rent, I have the car payment. And I have my dear friend who's also my legal person and my financial person. And I pay him like $10,000 a month so that I don't have to ever bother with anything legal or financial. Does not pass the smell test. It goes right to him. He's a super concierge service. He does all kinds of stuff for me. It's amazing. And then I have a personal assistant that costs a bit of money. And the, the, the rest is vacation money or food money.

• 19:29Jack Selby?

  What does your apartment cost?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  $4,000 a month.

• 19:33Jack Selby?

  That's not too bad.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  It's pretty bad.

• 19:34Graham Stephan?

  These are terrible.

• 19:35Jack Selby?

  That's, I mean, considering your income, it's well below, you know, what we would say a reasonable person should budget.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Totally. But I did not grow up with money. And so to me, these amounts on like raw, they just hit me all wrong. I'm like, oh my God, I'm spending how much money? This is insane. And so it makes me feel weird, but, but I do have solace in the fact that the vast majority of my income, I just invest. And so I invest in a combination of stocks. I can tell you guys the whole portfolio is restricted.

• 20:06Jack Selby?

  Yeah, we would love it, yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  And then I have commercial real estate and residential real estate. I'm getting out of residential, I'm getting more into commercial and more into, actually, commercial slash light industrial. I have a thesis on that. And then I have the stock portfolio. The light industrial, light industrial, commercial real estate is something that if robotics takes off, like I think it will, it'll be the biggest industry of all time. And I think a lot of folks will be looking for places to house robots, to construct everything. And that worst case scenario, if whatever business you had in that commercial industrial real estate doesn't take off or takes off and then does the U shape. You can at the very least have like good rental income off of a commercial light industrial buildings.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  It's a good investment, good resale value typically.

• 20:55Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  And then the stock portfolio situation is I do like basically 50/50, sort of. 50% of my stocks are to like broad ETFs, cause I don't typically want to bet too much against the market. So it's just broad market ETFs do really well. And then another 50% is fractioned into AI, robotics, and compute hardware.

• 21:19Graham Stephan?

  What's been the most money you've lost?

• 21:22Speaker 00

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• 21:49Jack Selby?

  What's your favorite topic?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  I don't think I've really lost a bunch of money. I don't look at my stocks day to day or week to week. I don't even look at them month to month.

• 21:57Jack Selby?

  And what about in the business?

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Uh, we've never had a day in the red.

• 22:01Jack Selby?

  You've always just been up?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, different degrees of it.

• 22:04Jack Selby?

  Yeah, sure.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  But we've never crossed into the red. Uh, so I can't say we've ever lost any money, but we take a very low-risk approach to business. That's probably not the best if you want to make the most money in the long term, but my colleagues and I are very risk averse.

• 22:18Jack Selby?

  What's the biggest deal you've said no to?

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, some folks in the supplement space have offered some money. And at the time, we weren't really courting sponsors. And so we have to be like, hey, sorry, thank you. Um, that's always weird. Turning down money is weird. But I don't think there's ever a big, big deal I've been offered that I said no to.

• 22:40Jack Selby?

  In life, what is the best and the worst thing to spend your money on?

• 22:43Speaker 01

  In my opinion, the worst stuff to spend your money on is on objects that you think will impress other people, that don't actually give you any pleasure endogenously for yourself, and that cost a lot of money, but also have deprecating value over time, and cost a lot of upkeep. It's like, perfect example is like that amazing car that you purchased. Soon as you drove it off the lot, it's like 40% of its value is gone. You don't even like the car, but other people you think will look at the car and be like, man, as a man of money, see? But you don't ever hear them talking. You have no idea if they're saying

• 23:27Speaker 01

  anything. And you feel awkward about being like, putting up such a front to be like, oh, see, I'm rich, or whatever. And then the car costs maintenance. It's like exotic. You can't take it to every dealership. And so it just bleeds money out of you. And afterwards, you finally get rid of the car four years later. Someone's like, did you like having that Ferrari or whatever? You're like, no, no, it's a giant pain in the ass. And it cost me an unbelievable amount of money, and it's never recouped it when I sold it. That to me, I think for some folks, they love that sort of thing. For me, it would just be completely a non-starter, which is why I've never done it. The best thing to spend your money on by a long shot, uh, I think is general stock market investing. I'll

• 24:10Speaker 01

  tell you why. You're doing two things. One is you're giving capital to where the wisdom of the market thinks it is best used to help society, which is incredible. Like, if I give my money to the broad market, Google gets a lot of it, Nvidia gets a lot of it, Sam's Club and Costco get a lot of it. And like, these are the companies, Amazon, they're like, doing the most good in the world. Like, where would we be without Google and Amazon? Seriously, legit, where would we be? I have no idea. I don't want to live in that dark world. So not only is your money doing incredible things by supporting amazing businesses and architectures, but at the same time, what it's doing is that money is technically going to work for you in some really deep sense, like that capitalist being is used for productive

• 24:53Speaker 01

  asset. And so it actually just increases. And there's a certain level at which if you put enough money into stocks, you can live on the money that you get from stocks, but also make enough from stocks that some of the money left over gets reinvested. So whatever amount of wealth you have just keeps going up, and you never have to go to work. To me, that is the golden fleece of why to have money. Obviously, it occurs at some level of income. For many people, between $10 and $20 million total invested, they'll have some version of that, depending on your spending proclivities, of course. That idea that if you put money away, and you get so much money at some point, that it's forever increasing

• 25:36Speaker 01

  money, it's like a money tree that keeps growing, is wild. I first found out about it, I was like, what?

• 25:43Jack Selby?

  It's called the safe withdrawal rate.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:44Jack Selby?

  SWR.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 25:45Jack Selby?

  When did you first find out about it?

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Like, three years ago or something?

• 25:49Jack Selby?

  Three years ago? What clicked?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  I was finally making enough money to where I could set that as a realistic goal at some point in my life. Because at some point, so I've had several phases of making a lot of money. I remember the first time that we made a lot of money in the company selling digital products, I had been paid for like a week, and it was like $40,000. And at my professor job at the time, I was making like $57,000 a year. And I remember like, seeing the transaction occur. And I remember I was at my, in my friend's kitchen, and I was just like, I don't know what the purpose of my life is anymore. They had no context for this whatsoever. Like, what the hell is happening? How is this happening? And so I was just like, well, I just better start getting real estate, I guess. So I started doing that. And then, you know, later on, I found out that like, oh, there's this

• 26:36Speaker 01

  magic like, escape velocity level of money to where your money does money stuff by itself, and you just don't have to go to work. I mean, you can, but it's just going to keep going up. And when I found out about that, I spent a few, a few days, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then ever since then, I've been trying to get to my own version of that.

• 26:54Jack Selby?

  I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here. You don't have to confirm or deny it, but you said that you have some ambiguous goal for money. I'm guessing that you found that a conservative SWR would be 3%, right? You could conservatively take 3% from your pile of money if it's invested in the markets and it will continue forever. And you said 250,000, so I'm gonna say your ambiguous goal, not so ambiguous, is about $10 million. And once you have that, then you're safe.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's correct.

• 27:22Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but I don't think you would, anything would change. You would hit 10 million and be like, all right, then back to work.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  You probably love what you do.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  After that, I, my goal would become like, I don't know, some arbitrary number. I actually do have a separate goal now, due to timing. My separate goal is basically like, this is all BS, by the way, because just, I do my job because I have a responsibility to my team to do my job, and with tons of, tons of people to help get in shape is why I do my job. I would just do my job anyway, no matter what amount of money it pays, is my, my life. So you need like, some BS to keep you going. And so some of my goals are like, all right, I'll pick an arbitrary goal. And so now, my goal is, how much money could

• 28:08Speaker 01

  I invest into the stock market? Or even, forget about that, make privately myself, before two things happen. One, AI agents become the only way people do money in the stock market. So at some point, um, super intelligent AI will invest your money for you better than you ever could. It is inevitable. It is several years away at most. Depending on legal stuff, it could be a little longer than that, or shorter than that. So something really magical happens when the AI takes your money and invests it for you, because you could just be so confident about going, here, take more money. And then like, the motivation to work even harder, to pour even more fire on that pile of money, so wrong

• 28:53Speaker 01

  analogy, more money on that fire is, is massive. And then there's a second inflection point there, where the machine economy produces more value off of your invested capital than you can as a human. It's like, I currently make like, a lot of money. It's awesome. But at some point, the combination of robotics and AI will take the money that I have invested at a stock market, and will make more out of it than I could out of my own talent. That is also inevitable. It's also going to happen probably sometime for me in the early 2030s, if not earlier, maybe. That's really wacky. I can tell you guys exactly why that gets

• 29:34Speaker 01

  wacky. There's a specific reason I'm confident that this will occur. Those are really trippy numbers, because it's kind of like, once the machines are really good at making money for you, you're not going to be so focused on making money in your job. You're going to really be focused on doing whatever like, super intelligence says is the next best idea for you to be doing. So until then, I'm kind of grinding as hard as I can to just for some giggles, is try to see how much money I can accumulate until that point.

• 29:59Jack Selby?

  I mean, I would just say that I personally completely agree with that. I believe Andrew Yang, I believe Elon Musk, there's going to be a universal high income. And then what happens when that occurs? I have no idea. I'm hoping that it's great, and I'm hoping everyone has access to everything. But it's also impossible to predict the future. So I'm sort of a member of your camp of like, grind as hard as I can, save and make as much as I can, and then see what happens.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:23Jack Selby?

  Hedge against whatever chaos could possibly ensue.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is probably like, no chaos will ensue. It's probably all just for vibes.

• 30:31Jack Selby?

  But it's unknown. That's the main thing. It's unknown.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  It's unknown, for sure, for sure.

• 30:35Jack Selby?

  So we have a list of 10 things that are either fact or fiction with health, and we'd love to hear your opinion on them.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll try.

• 30:43Jack Selby?

  Number one, you have to train to failure to build muscle.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  False. But you have to get close. Within three, four reps away from failure is where most of the good gains seem to be happening.

• 30:54Jack Selby?

  And when do you know you're at failure? What does it mean?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  When you're trying really hard, but the bar won't move anymore.

• 30:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but sometimes people have a little extra, like, you know, if you're doing it.

• 31:03Jack Selby?

  Graham, I've seen you train, you're not the person to talk right now.

• 31:05Graham Stephan?

  I'm just, I'm just saying, if someone walks over and they just like put a finger on the weight and all of a sudden now you could do like three more reps, even though they're like not even touching that thing.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Yep, that means that you had more in the tank and what you thought was three reps in reserve was really six reps in reserve, for example, what we thought was zero reps in reserve was actually three.

• 31:22Graham Stephan?

  So how much is mental?

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Um, for people that are not experienced in training a lot, the more experience you get, the more you figure out how to get everything out of your muscles that you can. And then the more your, uh, your idea of how many reps you have left in the tank becomes more reliable.

• 31:38Graham Stephan?

  Can you lift heavier if you're screaming?

• 31:40Jack Selby?

  Now, we're talking about getting more out of your workouts, but you want to make sure that you're getting more out of the money that you're spending at the gym, groceries and all of the other things, because those are expenses that add up every single month.

• 31:50Graham Stephan?

  Especially when you're trying to eat better and stay consistent. You're probably buying a lot of the same things every week. So getting something back on purchases you're already making could really add up. And that's where our partner Cash App comes in to help.

• 32:01Jack Selby?

  Cash App does more than you think when it comes to having your back and making sure that your money stays your money. Cash App just released a new status program for the way people actually spend their money called Cash App Green.

• 32:11Graham Stephan?

  Now, when you spend at least $500 a month on a Cash App card, you are in green status, which unlocks benefits like up to $200 of free overdraft coverage. And then if you overdraft unexpectedly, there are no hidden fees. You also unlock higher borrow limits and custom personalized cash back offers every Friday at places you love to shop.

• 32:29Jack Selby?

  Turn everyday spending into status with Cash App Green. Download Cash App today or go to cash.app to learn more about this and other financial benefits.

• 32:36Graham Stephan?

  Even better, but new Cash App customers could earn $10 if they use the code CASHAPP10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Terms apply.

• 32:45Jack Selby?

  Download Cash App today and make your money work for you. Visit our link in bio.

• 32:49Graham Stephan?

  And speaking of expenses, hiring the wrong person could be an expensive one, especially heading into the holidays when you need help and don't have weeks to sort through applications.

• 32:57Jack Selby?

  Yeah, and some of these holiday jobs are very specific. Snowplow drivers who need a special license, even Santas with real beards. Finding someone qualified who actually wants your job is what our partner ZipRecruiter helps with.

• 33:09Graham Stephan?

  And right now you could try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/ICH.

• 33:12Jack Selby?

  ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first, so you meet the right people faster.

• 33:18Graham Stephan?

  Candidates could even tell you in their own words why they're excited about your job. So you have more to go on than just a resume.

• 33:24Jack Selby?

  Because experience matters, but so does finding someone who understands the role and is actually excited to get started, especially when your busiest weeks are coming up fast.

• 33:32Graham Stephan?

  And ZipRecruiter's matching technology helps you find qualified candidates quickly. That's why it's no wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2.

• 33:40Jack Selby?

  Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/ICH.

• 33:47Graham Stephan?

  It's ziprecruiter.com/ICH. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Can you lift heavier if you're screaming?

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Gee whiz, if they tell you to scream in an exercise science study versus not telling you to scream, probably not. If you are screaming because of a side effect of being really amped up, probably, but it's the amping that causes the screaming and causes the bigger weights. I wouldn't go in the gym and just start yelling. You could if you have a hamstring machine.

• 34:14Jack Selby?

  Who has the hardest workouts of all time?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Tom Platts.

• 34:17Jack Selby?

  You would say that confidently?

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Uh, no, because I've seen almost nobody work out relatively speaking to how many people have trained. Do you guys know who Dwarash Patel is by any chance? He's an AI podcaster. He's a San Francisco person and he interviews all the OpenAI and Anthropic people all the time. Dwarash is a client of mine. Dwarash sends every set into the sun. And I legitimately worry for him at times because I'm like, he's just gonna break himself into pieces. He is an Indian god of gods and training around Dwarash makes me reexamine, do I?

• 34:55Jack Selby?

  Is he shredded?

• 34:56Speaker 01

  He's in really good shape, but you wouldn't, he's a sleeper. You wouldn't think like, you'd be like, oh, it's like an Indian tech dude. Of course he's gonna train fine. Holy crap, like I've seen his body convulse in ways under weights where I'm like, has Patel say something? He's gonna break, but he doesn't break. He's just doing it. He's the man. So for every famous bodybuilder that you have that you think trains really hard, there's some Indian dude in a basement somewhere, bro, that's going way harder. That's like a real thing, but Tom Platts.

• 35:20Jack Selby?

  I've seen his leg workout.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  His leg workout, his everything workout and the facial expressions, that whatever beyond failure is like an allusion to him is he can always do one more rep. It's crazy, like I would shudder, like if he was like, hey, do you want to, if he was, you know, if I was back in the eighties and he was like, hey, you want to catch a workout? I'd be like, I'm sick, my leg is hurt, my dog did my homework and I would just run.

• 35:39Jack Selby?

  Yeah. The second claim is three days in the gym is enough for most people.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, two days is enough for most people, for sure.

• 35:45Graham Stephan?

  How do you get that good of a workout in two days?

• 35:48Speaker 01

  You have to take your rest times and collapse them to almost nothing. You have to do exercises that recruit large muscle masses. Like, for example, you can do squats and pair it with upright rows. When you're doing upright rows, it's your shoulders, it's your traps, it's your forearms, it's your biceps. When you do squats, it's like half the muscles in your lower body. And so those are both really hard things to do. If you do a set of squats, you walk over, do a set of upright rows, you walk back, you do a set of squats, back to back to back to back. You do everything, every movement, you do paired like that, back to back. You do six movements, it's gonna take you about 30 minutes and you will be like maybe four sets per movement and you're gonna be toast. It's brutal, but 40 minutes, twice a week, man, you're gonna get unbelievable shape.

• 36:29Jack Selby?

  How many sets per muscle group? Or how many different exercises per muscle group, I should add?

• 36:33Speaker 01

  I, in that case, you're doing like one exercise per muscle group.

• 36:38Jack Selby?

  And that's enough?

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, for sure.

• 36:39Jack Selby?

  So everybody has a max physique potential that they can achieve. What percent of their max potential could they achieve by working out twice a week?

• 36:48Speaker 01

  70%.

• 36:50Jack Selby?

  And three days per week?

• 36:51Speaker 01

  80, 85.

• 36:52Jack Selby?

  Obviously dependent on the quality of the workout.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:55Graham Stephan?

  So if someone's going for the 80/20, what do you recommend?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Depending on how they like to pace themselves, anywhere between three and four workouts a week is great. If you're going for 75, 25, even two hard workouts is gonna be amazing. The thing is though, it's an interesting way that you phrased it of like your max genetic potential. The vast majority of people that I've interacted with, especially late business professionals, folks that probably watch this show, they're not like so interested in getting close to their max genetic potential. They just want to look good. Like I look at your physique, you clearly work out, you're clearly in good shape. You're not a pro bodybuilder or some, but I see you at the store and I'm like, this is a guy that's got his act together. Like this is a great physique. Can I build your physique in two sessions a week, 40 minutes at a time? Yeah, you bet.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Do I care if I'm you that like, oh, yes, but I could be even more exotic if I did 10 times the work? I don't know, sure, but that's a personal choice. So my big thing that I like to do with folks is get them that minimum amount of exercise, two sessions of 30 to 40 minutes per week, three sessions maybe, that doesn't destroy their entire life with just, do you just work out now? You gotta divorce your wife, leave the kids, all you do is lift. You don't want any of that. You just want amazing results. And if someone looks at their body after two years of good dieting, good training, and they're like, man, I love this, but I don't need any more. Amazing, you did great. And maybe that's only 60% of your genetic potential. What do you?

• 38:23Speaker 05

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• 38:47Speaker 01

  Do you care? Do you want to be the best that your genetics allow? If that's the case, well, you can always do more. So if two is going great, two workouts a week, try three. If you love three, you just want desperately to work out more and better results, try four. It's a curve linear thing though, that tops out at about six sessions per week. And then after that, you do real weird exotic stuff to make any more gains. So you gotta be careful about thinking like, oh, I'm gonna work out double. It's gonna give me double the gains. It won't, it'll give you like time and a half the gains, 1.25 the gains.

• 39:17Graham Stephan?

  Should anyone work out seven days a week?

• 39:20Speaker 01

  No, because your body thrives on a combination of incredibly hard stimulus and rest. And so if you take one of those away from the equation, it doesn't work that well anymore. So at least one day a week off is a really good idea for almost everybody. Six days a week, that is a full send plan. You're gonna need that one day to rest and recover. Can you technically pull off seven days a week of training? You technically can. Is it the best idea in the world? No, I would not say it is.

• 39:46Jack Selby?

  The third claim is that you can't out-train a bad diet.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  That's one of the truest things like ever spoken. As far as like the amount of wisdom density in a small number of words, that's up there with the best things. And boy, have people tried. Uh, I was just on a debate podcast, Joe, with a bunch of folks. And one gentleman there had lost an unbelievable amount of weight, but he spent five hours in the gym per day.

• 40:10Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so he, he did out train a bad diet, but like five hours a day. I don't know if anyone's winning that one, you know?

• 40:20Graham Stephan?

  What was he eating?

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Like more or less standard food that he used to, but he just made up for it with five hours of training. And then he lost some weight and then later he lost all that weight and then some again by training way less, but he just actually controlled his diet. The thing is the amount of calories you burn in the gym per unit time, like per hour, compared to the kinds of foods that you would see in the wild as a foraging human berries, roots, maybe some animal dies. Is actually quite, quite like comparable. And so like you, you need to keep eating to stay alive out in the wild. Did they invented this thing recently called the donut and also the Ben and Jerry's? And like he, the amount of physical activity you'd have to input into your body to burn off a Ben and Jerry's pint is like

• 41:06Speaker 01

  three hours of psychotic cardio. You're not gonna do that. The fatigue level is gonna go crazy. You're gonna get home, you're gonna have another pint of Ben and Jerry's, you're gonna gain weight. And so out training a bad diet is just way easier to eat the calories than it is to train them out. So you don't want to do that. You want diet calorie control to be the thing that causes most of the weight loss.

• 41:27Graham Stephan?

  The next question is, can fast food be a part of a healthy diet?

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely. If you do two things with it, you don't eat it all the time, maybe a few times a week. And also the total.

• 41:38Jack Selby?

  Few times a week?

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 41:40Jack Selby?

  That sounds like a lot because a few is three or four.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Yep. You can eat fast food three or four times a week. No problem.

• 41:45Jack Selby?

  What fast food are we talking?

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Whatever you like.

• 41:47Jack Selby?

  Cause I'm listening.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Long John Silver's. But you've heard that name for a while.

• 41:52Graham Stephan?

  Fast, I think it's not fast.

• 41:53Jack Selby?

  It's fast casual.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Long John Silver's is absolutely fast food in every sense of the word.

• 41:58Jack Selby?

  I've never actually been there.

• 41:59Graham Stephan?

  We don't have that here.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  I refuse to believe we show you a picture, you're like, but.

• 42:03Jack Selby?

  Will you get some data on if Long John Silver's is out in Vegas?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Is there a Long John Silver's in Vegas is what all of the people want to know. McDonald's, Burger King, all of them. You can eat all that stuff several times a week. But it, the number one rule is, so first of all, don't eat it all the damn time. It's gonna cause some health problems.

• 42:17Jack Selby?

  We have confirmation. There is indeed a Long John Silver's here.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 42:20Graham Stephan?

  We gotta go.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  We gotta go. You're gonna call me like.

• 42:23Jack Selby?

  Tell me what to work on.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  This place sucks. Sorry.

• 42:26Graham Stephan?

  John, going here three days a week, just like you said.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  I'm gaining weight. My doctor says I'm crazy. You have to control for total calories. So the way people get in trouble with fast food is if they eat it all the time, it's got all sorts of stuff that's not great for you. It's not terrible for you. It's not great. It's just on ingredients alone. It's not good for your health. So if you're eating it like twice a day, not a good idea in most cases. But a few times a week is fine as long as your total calories are here and the fast food does this instead of that. And so that's how people get trouble with fast food predominantly is they just overeat it. Cause fast food is two things, three things, super tasty, super calorie dense. You eat it for like five minutes. You're like, what the hell? I had how many calories? And super high in calories per portion. You do that sort of thing, you're gonna be gaining weight because your calories go over.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  So if you can stuff a cheeseburger in and not go over your calories for the day, you can have that a few times a week and you're gonna be hunky dory.

• 43:19Jack Selby?

  Fifth claim, seed oils are the worst thing in the American diet.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  I think they're the worst thing in the world, you know, like it is absolute most evil prime, still not as bad as seed oils. Next question.

• 43:30Graham Stephan?

  Why is that?

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Uh, well.

• 43:33Graham Stephan?

  Okay, because, no, no.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  I think it could have just.

• 43:35Jack Selby?

  I think he was.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  More bad.

• 43:36Graham Stephan?

  No, no. In terms of seed oils, we get those, uh, built bars and apparently they have.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yes, puffs are super tasty.

• 43:44Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but they have like seed oil. I was showing it to a buddy and he's like, oh, no, you should be, how many do you eat? And I'm like, I eat probably two to three of that.

• 43:50Jack Selby?

  You eat two to three a day?

• 43:51Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 43:51Jack Selby?

  Dude, that's coming out of the ice coffee hour budget, dude.

• 43:53Graham Stephan?

  Oh, here? No, I have them at home.

• 43:55Jack Selby?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  You're still using the company card though, aren't you?

• 43:59Jack Selby?

  Bud, sure thing.

• 44:00Graham Stephan?

  Taking handfuls to go.

• 44:02Jack Selby?

  I've seen you. We go for a, we will travel for a trip. He just raids the pantry.

• 44:06Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but there's a work, that's a work.

• 44:08Jack Selby?

  It's a work trip.

• 44:08Graham Stephan?

  That's a work trip.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Two Jews.

• 44:10Graham Stephan?

  But I eat, I eat two to three of them. And a buddy was looking at this. He's like, no, this is really bad because of the seed oil and you're eating. And I looked it up online and it was like the amount that I would have to eat to actually be harmful is like dozens of these things.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Yes, seed oils are not bad for your health. That is one of the most common myths in the nutrition space. The direct research comparing food that's identical, where they took out some saturated fat, replaced it with seed oil and vice versa, shows that seed oils are healthier than saturated fats in most analyses. Straight up, straight up.

• 44:44Jack Selby?

  So if you have two different individuals that both do the research, they're both PhD people, they, they have all of the accolades that one could possibly want to be able to make the determination. How do you have so many people on one side saying that they're totally fine and so many people on the other side saying they are not fine? Like, that's the thing that confuses me.

• 45:02Graham Stephan?

  It seems like there's money on both sides, like the seed oil people versus the saturated fat.

• 45:06Jack Selby?

  Like, like one week, one week it'll be a guy that's just like, I don't touch the seed oils. And then one week later, it's like seed oils are completely fine. And I'm like, I honestly am either dumb or I have no idea.

• 45:16Graham Stephan?

  It was Gary Brekka who said on the Ice Coffee Hour a while ago.

• 45:20Jack Selby?

  Apparently he saved Dana White's life.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  He did none of that. I don't know what Gary Brekka did for Dana White. Gary Brekka is a person who lies constantly, straight up. Gary Brekka is not an expert as far as I know in anything.

• 45:34Graham Stephan?

  What's he lying about?

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Is almost all of his health claims are just fictitious bull, hydrogen water, seed oils, you name it. He once said that if you mix like your salt with a metal spoon, it like ionizes or something you need like a wooden spoon. This is total bat insanity. It's just make believe. I'm sorry. There's time for civility and a time for truth. And so I would not rely on Gary Brekka for my fitness and health advice by any stretch of the imagination. And Gary Brekka is not one of these people that has advanced degrees. He does not have an advanced degree. My apologies for that. Now, how do we get a dichotomy of people? There is a way to see this that makes some sense.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Some of the people that have advanced degrees, they look at the chemical research on seed oils. The specific denaturation of the seed oils that occurs to processing. They're inferring that that should have a negative health effect based on studies in, in laboratory, studies exposing cells. Some limited work exposing animals to seed oils. That's a lot of inference to get to the idea that seed oils are bad for you. Most of that is fine inference, but you can't be too confident in it, though it is very mechanistic and very hard science. And so you have people like that get on podcasts and they say a lot of stuff about how seed oils could be bad. And people are like, oh my God, this guy has an M D P H D and this is what he does. It's clearly a thing.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Then there's actually the direct research on seed oils, which is taking human beings, feeding them for weeks and months, either like lots of seed oils or lots of not seed oils. Almost all of that research is unidirectional. It's seed oils are just not bad for your health and they're better for your health than saturated fat.

• 47:13Graham Stephan?

  What about microplastics? Cause I hear that thrown around a lot like, oh, the microplastics.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yes. Microplastics are potentially a vector for all sorts of health malady. But we do not have the kind of fine tuned aggregate data that would suggest a confident prescription that microplastics are really, really bad. So this is one of these like, in the future, we might be like, man, microplastics really screwed us up. Or we might be like, microplastics were completely overrated as something that's super bad. We just can't tell. Science unfortunately has a lot of like, we just don't know yet kind of answers. But that's like, that's the honest answer. Because I could tell you all sorts of stories about microplastics. Most of them will be fictitious. All, almost everyone who's speculating that microplastics are bad for you is speculated. Does not mean they're incorrect, but it just means that most people are a bit too confident about what microplastics do and don't do to your body.

• 48:04Jack Selby?

  Made me think for a brief moment about this story when I was like watching a bunch of Paul Saladino. I was watching all these people saying seed oils are bad and what you need to eat is like natural ground beef with honey and unpasteurized cheese or something like that, all these things. And I, I made a plate of this with my friend and just looking at it before I ate it, it was like a hunk of red meat with cheese just completely drenching it. And then a glob of honey on the top. And I'm like, and, and then there's just a banana beside it. And I was, I like, I had to think to myself, and unpasteurized milk as well. I was, as I was like about to eat, I'm like, this just looks like the exact opposite of everything that I was raised to like eat.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you were, the government, you infected your mind. You were raised, you don't really know, you know? It's all this, it's all this propaganda. That's what those people actually say a lot. No, um, it definitely does like, you're like, okay, I'm eating like steak and cheese, but I guess it's the good kind or something. The stuff that that has not aged well in the research literature. So it turns out a high saturated fat diet is probably not good for your health. Eating super high calorie dense foods is probably not good for your health. Issuing most kinds of like fiber and vegetables is not good for your health. The carnivore diet is not doing so well nowadays. And so people have a lot of feelings about how they're dieting, but the, the insight from science, from direct research,

• 49:26Speaker 01

  vast majority of nutritionists goes against the vast majority of that.

• 49:30Graham Stephan?

  Thirty seconds, why is the carnivore diet so bad?

• 49:33Speaker 01

  It lacks. Nuts, healthy oils, vegetables, fruits and whole grains. Everything I just listed are some of the most health promoting foods of all time. And so it just gets rid of most of the food in your diet. That's actually super healthy and awesome for you. Specifically veggies and fiber is something that you really, really benefit from. And a carnivore diet just takes all of that off the table. And the direct literature on the carnivore diet is that it causes not so great stuff for health.

• 50:01Jack Selby?

  I'm not a doctor, so I can't necessarily challenge anything that you're saying.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  You can challenge no matter who you are.

• 50:06Jack Selby?

  Well, I certainly can't challenge this, but you know, don't take anything you hear on this podcast as dogma. Do your own research. That could very well be true. Also, the glob of honey on top of the meat and cheese could totally be true as well. I don't really know.

• 50:18Graham Stephan?

  And the banana.

• 50:18Jack Selby?

  I didn't feel amazing after it, you know, but it did taste really good.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Well, to your point, I don't feel amazing after eating salads, but apparently they're good for you. I just feel hungry still. I would say the best way to parse nutritional claims like that is to talk to your favorite AI model on its highest reasoning mode. And be like, hey, these people say this, these people say that. Who is the evidence and reasoning siding more with? And the AI models almost certainly will give you better insight on that than most experts.

• 50:44Jack Selby?

  The sixth claim is that most supplements are a waste of money.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  It's probably true.

• 50:49Jack Selby?

  And which aren't, if you were to name five supplements that people should look into?

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Whey protein is not a waste of money. Creatine is not a waste of money.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Zinc is not a waste of money. Magnesium is not a waste. The D vitamins are pretty good. Fish oils that are properly attended to EPA, DHA, healthy fats, omega threes are not a waste of money. And there's probably a few ones down there. I mean, like if you take caffeine as a supplement, that's a fine use. And probably a few others that have smaller impacts, some vitamins, some minerals. Everything else on top of that, there, there are supplements that work okay. But there's a difference between saying like this supplement in the context of your diet could be good for you. Versus everybody should supplement with X, Y, Z. Huge, huge differences there. And so most people just probably don't need most supplements. But there's a lot of other supplements that are just like, I don't even know what they do. There's no research on them whatsoever.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  People just have all claims for them.

• 51:45Jack Selby?

  I will say, I'm very, very skeptical when it comes to supplements. I am medicated. I only take it maybe once a week or so, especially when I'm traveling for sleep. I take like a sleep aid very rarely. That was the only thing that could put me to sleep if I was having a hard night. I started taking magnesium and I was blown away. Like it actually made a difference. And I don't know if it's the specific one that I'm taking, but it legitimately made a difference. And I sleep like very deeply now. I'm, I'm sort of a naturalist, like I don't take it. It's amazing.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, magnesium can make a difference. It doesn't make a difference in all people, but it can make a difference in some.

• 52:19Jack Selby?

  The next claim is that strict diets always fail.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  You know, anytime you hear a claim that has always in it, you better be like dealing with natural laws. Otherwise it doesn't work out so well. Strict diets fail a lot though. So a claim is like mostly true because strict diets have this really big, um, they have a big cost of bandwidth. You have to like change how you're eating in most circumstances. You can't go out like a normal person would anymore. Your life is now substantially more inconvenient. And that cost that you pay all the time, it wears on you. One of the number one things in behavior science is building habits that are as sustainable as possible.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  If your gym is across the street, you're way more likely to go than if it's 30 minutes across town. And so if you've architected a diet for yourself that is insanely strict and it was almost no flexibility. But as you guys know, life is very flexible thing. Your probability of falling off the wagon is going to be really high, which is why most people do not do well with strict diets. It probably shouldn't be trying them.

• 53:26Jack Selby?

  The eighth claim is that most men over 40 should be on TRT.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  False. But maybe not by much. I would say if you're over 40, making sure to get your lifestyle boxes checked. That you're doing exercise, good nutrition, good stress management, good sleep. And then getting your testosterone checked to see what range it's in after you've inculcated all those good, good habits. Cause some of those, like if your sleep is off or if you drink a bunch, your testosterone is going to be low and TRT is not going to really help you much. Cause this is going to be like, hey, your life sucks. Let's spray testosterone on it. And so, but if you do have low testosterone after accounting for all those factors, then TRT can be an unbelievable life changing thing. And I've seen it change very many men's lives for the insanely positive rapidly, specifically in late 30s, early 40s individuals.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  So I can't say like, most people should be on TRT in their 40s. But if you qualify because you have lower than average testosterone and it's affecting your life in a negative way, then TRT is like a miraculous, amazing thing.

• 54:25Jack Selby?

  In a brief way, let's just say you take a random person that's in their mid 30s and they have low testosterone. What would they immediately notice in their life if they were to take testosterone?

• 54:36Speaker 01

  One thing they would notice is a higher degree of confidence. You just like say stuff to people and just watch them react. You just don't care as much anymore. Another one is that you'll have more sustained daily energy, just kind of feel more oomph. You're going to be recovering from workouts in a way you didn't think was possible since your early twenties. Like you train, you get sore, you heal, you're like, oh, my joints feel fine. I guess it's time to go train hard again. Overall motivation and joie de vivre, the zest for life can go up. Your probability of becoming recalcitrant and aggressive during confrontations also goes up. So you gotta watch your temper a little bit. And potentially your sex drive can go up in a way that's sort of experienced as like, like a hunger.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Uh, like stuff like you see a hot girl, if you have that normal, low testosterone, let's say, and you're like, ah, she looks nice, I guess.

• 55:26Jack Selby?

  Mary Jack.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  You see, uh, oh, my bad. You see a hot girl, if you're on plenty of testosterone and you're like, whoa.

• 55:33Jack Selby?

  So what is the negative part?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Well, if you're in a relationship and you see hot girls all the time, that's annoying. Cause you're like, ah, why am I thinking about sex all the time? This is stupid. If you are in a position and most of us are where you're supposed to be non-confrontational. Uh, yeah, like you can find yourself to be more confrontational when you're on testosterone. And sometimes people on TRT, when it's dosed a little high, can experience some like, like degradation of sleep quantity. Cause they're kind of like jazzed up a lot and they just don't feel like sleeping. And that can have like not so great effects. Those are some of the ones that come to mind the most. Yeah, mostly it's a great thing, but it can, especially the sex drive thing could just be downright annoying.

• 56:14Jack Selby?

  The ninth claim is that most jacked influencers who say they're natural are lying.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  I just have to have examples of people that we're talking about.

• 56:22Jack Selby?

  You say over 50% or under?

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Of, of, of, of people that claim natural.

• 56:28Jack Selby?

  And they're a jacked influencer.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  I'd say most of them are telling that you're clearly on drugs. It's not my first rodeo.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  I think, I think most, I think more of them are telling the truth than not. The internet has become very good at detecting who's lying about steroids. There's like a skin hue to it even, but uh, used to be that, that a lot of people were natural. And um, some people were taking drugs and those people would say they're natural. But drugs have become more accepted in influencer culture. Like it's actually cool and fun to be toxic. And so you like, you know, um, what's his name? Uh, that gentleman who does the stuff with his face, um, clavicular. Strange name. Uh, he's like admitted to all the drugs in the world and like, no one gives, they're like, oh, cool. So nowadays people, I mean, you have influencers named the trend twins.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Trends are really on the steroid. These are real people in the world. So because they can be super, super popular, it's actually like, you gain some popularity for admitting that you're on like drugs. You're like more edgy and cool. And so that whole thing of posing as a natural, when you're not really natural, it used to be a bigger thing, I think culturally than it is today. That's just my perception. I could be entirely wrong. I was always upfront about my drug use, so it skipped me entirely, but I, some people I suppose lie about it.

• 57:48Jack Selby?

  The 10th claim is that getting jacked gets you more dates.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Sure doesn't work for me, but I'm also ugly.

• 57:55Jack Selby?

  No.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Oh, it's nice that you're saying that, but I do, I can see the mirror. I'm not visually impaired.

• 58:00Graham Stephan?

  What do you, what do you think is your worst feature that makes you ugly? Why? Cause to me it sounds crazy. What about your face specifically?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Self-deprecating humor. I think I have a very unique look. It's not for everybody. I'll say that, that is my actual assessment of myself. Uh, all jokes aside, getting jacked can get you more dates in two ways. One, it'll get you more dates with girls that like jacked guys. It is not all girls by a long shot that like jacked guys. Two is getting jacked gives you more confidence in many cases, not all. But it also makes other guys around you seem to give you more space and seem to take you more seriously. And in my experience, women catch on to that really quickly, way faster than guys do.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Whoever the guy in the room is that most of the guys are like, whoa, he's that guy. The women will naturally be like, why am I interested in that asshole? I don't even like him, but something about him. And so that like air of manhood, I think if you get jacked, you get a lot of that and that leads to more dates. But by itself, you know, a lot of women don't really prefer jacked guys. And, and there's also a real like upper limit to that. Like I'm going way, way, way beyond anything that would get me extra dates.

• 59:17Graham Stephan?

  Speaking of getting jacked, everyone is going viral right now talking about peptides. Why is this getting so much attention all of a sudden?

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Because peptides are a thing you can get on the gray market. They're really cheap. They're completely unregulated and you can just get however many of them you want. And a few of them are really, really effective in a really dramatic way.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  And people get really hyped about it. And so peptides are going through a crazy hype cycle and are incredibly overstated as to how valuable they really are currently. Peptides are exactly in that zeitgeist, like it's their moment and it will fade probably shortly unless new peptides come out that actually do some things that people want. So there's kind of like, there are the tides, I call them, semaglutide, terzepatide, retachritide. Those are unbelievably effective drugs. They're super drugs. They're peptides. And then there's like some peptides for sort of for healing, maybe BBC 157 TB 500. They sort of maybe do things now. No one's really quite sure. Then there are morelins that like

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  are growth hormone secretagogues, but most people just get growth hormone anyway. And they like work, but they're super low key. And there's a couple of other ones that enhance some, some aspects of metabolic health. We don't super understand super well. Maybe a little cognitive enhancement, but they're like little pixie dust sprinkling on the whole thing. And so my big gripe with peptides was that almost everyone you talk to who asks about peptides thinks there are peptides that grow muscle. There are no peptides that grow muscle. They just don't exist. The growth hormone secretagogues, things that end in morelin, they do help facilitate muscle growth to some extent, if you're training and taking testosterone as well, but then by themselves, they're not driving a lot of muscle growth. So a lot of people hear about peptides and a question I get all the time is, hey, what do you think about peptides? And I'm like, what about them? And they're

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  like, there's no follow up. They don't even, I don't know. Are they like a thing? Do they work? Or some people are like, they're for sure grow muscle. And I'm like, which ones? And they're like, I don't know. Which ones do you take for muscle growth? I don't take peptides for muscle growth. It confuses other people. That's how you know you're dealing with a zeitgeist moment. When people are like, what do you think about this thing? And you're like, what do you think about it? They're like, I don't know what to think about it. And so, cause you have something that's super effective. It's just going to work or it's not going to work. People usually don't say like, what do you think about anabolic steroids? They already know like, oh, they grow muscle and they're dangerous. Both of those are true. The peptide thing is, is some of it there with the actual terzepatide, retachritide, those are amazing compounds. Most of the rest of currently available peptides, they're just not going to get you whatever you think that there is, they're going to get you.

• 1:01:54Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is the outcome to all of this? If people are just getting these peptides probably from China, they're unregulated, people are just injecting themselves. Where's this going to lead to?

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Probably nothing. People will just stop injecting themselves when they realize most peptides don't do much. And the zeitgeist will shift to some other cool thing that comes out. The vast majority of peptides that have been tested by independent bodies, even on the gray market are safe and they're almost exactly as labeled and more than 99% pure. You'll have some cases where people shot a peptide and got sick and it'll make big national news and news reporters will get to do their news reporter voice. Are peptides coming for our children? Gail, back to you tonight at 11. And it'll be awesome. And it'll be freaking out. People will talk about it on Twitter and then two days later, no one will care anymore. So that's kind of how I see the peptide situation. I don't think it's heading to anything crazy. Now, there's an exception to that. I think that either peptides or oral small molecules that grow a lot of muscle or do age reversal are

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  inevitable, maybe soon, because there's age reversal pills right now. They're testing in US laboratories that do actually reverse animal age by three or four years, some of them even more. You will not get these drugs in the United States for a very long time because of our approval process. You will get them on the Chinese gray market, like maybe next year.

• 1:03:07Graham Stephan?

  Would you try that on the Chinese gray market?

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Absolutely. Without a question.

• 1:03:12Jack Selby?

  If you were to guess with just a number, how many more years does someone need to live for them to experience medicine that will prevent them from ever dying?

• 1:03:23Graham Stephan?

  By the way, if we're talking about living long enough to see all of these advances, that's a lot of time to keep saying that you'll start that business someday. Well, with Black Friday coming up in a few weeks, there's no better time to start than right now.

• 1:03:34Jack Selby?

  Exactly, Graham. If you've been thinking about selling something online, getting your store launched before that holiday rush gives you an opportunity to take advantage of the fact that everyone's already shopping. And our partner Shopify is hands down the best place to start.

• 1:03:47Graham Stephan?

  We're actually using Shopify ourselves right now to sell, wait for it, popular demand, iced coffee hour hats, and Jack has started quite a few stores before this as well.

• 1:03:56Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Before Graham and I started working together, I set up maybe six or seven different online stores and I just kept going back to Shopify because it was truly that good. If you want to start an online store and start selling product, Shopify is absolutely the best place to start if you want to see some real sales coming in.

• 1:04:13Graham Stephan?

  And their pre-built themes and AI site builder make it even easier to create a professional storefront. So that that way you could focus on your products and getting ready for customers.

• 1:04:21Jack Selby?

  Plus sidekick Shopify's AI assistant can help with everything from setting up your store to planning promotions. So you can get things ready before Black Friday and take advantage of that extra online traffic.

• 1:04:31Graham Stephan?

  If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com slash ICH to start your free trial.

• 1:04:37Jack Selby?

  That is Shopify.com slash ICH.

• 1:04:39Graham Stephan?

  Go to Shopify.com slash ICH to hear your first.

• 1:04:43Jack Selby?

  If you were to guess with just a number, how many more years does someone need to live for them to experience medicine that will prevent them from ever dying?

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Seven? Seven more years?

• 1:05:02Graham Stephan?

  Why seven?

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Why seven?

• 1:05:04Jack Selby?

  He's like, I don't know.

• 1:05:05Graham Stephan?

  Because.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  I was just vibing. I hope one of you helped me. This is your show.

• 1:05:10Jack Selby?

  Let me ask ChatGPT.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  I have, ChatGPT told me to say these things. That's a fine reason. There you go. I won't say five because the problem of, of figuring out that much about biology is difficult. Not so difficult for advanced super intelligence, but difficult enough for me at least to have some reverence for it. But the big thing is like, I just don't think the US regulatory approval bodies for medicine, like the FDA just work very fast. And so like, you're going to be waiting years and years for anything to come out that's going to be any good. 10 gets us to 2036. 2036 in many respects will look absolutely nothing like 2026 does

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  for one very specific reason. The AI of 2036 and the AI of even years before that is going to be so much more intelligent than we are that is difficult to comprehend. And so problems that do seem like great problems for that thing will just be like, that's not a problem. This already happening in some small capacity. You guys heard about the recent math results that just came out. I don't know when this podcast is going out, they're already going to be dated. There's open problems in mathematics that nobody has been able to solve for decades. Frontier model that you'll have be your primary model probably in December for OpenAI, but it's currently in the back room. In ChatGPT Pro sessions, an average of three hours long

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  for each problem, bulk solve 722 open math problems that the smartest mathematicians in the world would crack one of these problems every few years. All of them together. Cause so one model cracked 722 of them. This model will be the dumbest that frontier AI ever is. Then we get into all this recursive self-improvement stuff that gets crazy. 10 years from now, we may be looking at people uploading brains into clouds, mass scale genetic engineering. And so I think that's like late, late. So my safe bet is seven. That's my number that I'm going with. Incredibly low confidence estimate, but it's basically somewhere vibing between

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  five and 10. Five seems hopeful. 10 seems like forever after five in an exponential AI powered world.

• 1:07:20Jack Selby?

  Speaking of intelligence, you've claimed that your IQ is 160 or higher.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25Jack Selby?

  How do you know that to be true?

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  So I took the Ravens Advanced Progressive Matrices IQ test, which is a maximum of 160, beyond which it cannot measure because you run out of problems. I got every single problem correct.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

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• 1:08:03Jack Selby?

  So you tested it.

• 1:08:05Graham Stephan?

  Did you?

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:05Jack Selby?

  Can I take it?

• 1:08:06Graham Stephan?

  Practice for this test or?

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  If you can practice, practice does not have a large effect on the results of.

• 1:08:12Jack Selby?

  Is that just like, how do you take that test? Do you have to go like to a place?

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  You can. You can do it yourself in your own home, but you just like download a test that there's a real test and you just work through the problems and you just like keep going and solve some problems.

• 1:08:26Jack Selby?

  What does it mean to have a high IQ?

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  For me, involuntary celibacy.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Maybe that's just something I have in general. I hit a nerve there, didn't I?

• 1:08:35Graham Stephan?

  I'm just deeply focused.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  What does it mean to have a IQ? In general, it means that you're so general intelligence is relatively high. And that means that you're going to be able to figure things out faster than many other people. And or that you can just have a really big breadth of understanding, combined with a big depth of understanding. And you also may be prone to be able to see things that other people seem mysterious, but to you seem somewhere between straightforward or even obvious. As you climb the IQ scale, that tends to be how it expresses itself.

• 1:09:13Jack Selby?

  Is there a best IQ to have to either make a lot of money or to be very happy?

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, the higher the better for both.

• 1:09:19Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:09:19Jack Selby?

  Okay, so I heard that for IQ, there was kind of like a golden stage of IQ between like 115 and 125, because the more that you know, the more aware you are of the world's problems.

• 1:09:31Graham Stephan?

  And the more unrelatable you are to everyone else, that you're just like at a different level, that you're thinking in a different way than everyone.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  I could be wrong about this, but last I checked, those are urban myths. The higher your IQ, the more likely you have a lower fraction of mental illness and bad experiences. And the more, I mean, definitely you'll make more money with a higher IQ, all things being held equal, of course. So you need some social skill and not being a mean person and all this other stuff.

• 1:09:59Jack Selby?

  What do you think is Elon Musk's IQ?

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  If I had to vibe it, 170 to 190.

• 1:10:05Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is Greg Doucette's IQ?

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  190 to 210.

• 1:10:10Jack Selby?

  Pretty good guess. What do you think is Jack's IQ?

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  He's just really handsome. I can't get over that.

• 1:10:16Graham Stephan?

  So like 80?

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  I actually have absolutely no idea. I mean, I do not have the special power of looking at people and estimating IQ. Elon has some like tangible accomplishments.

• 1:10:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Elon's IQ of all those I just answered, I'm the most confident about why. Because in order to do what Elon does, you have to have an off the charts IQ. My understanding is Elon wanted to get into rocketry. And people were like, it's too difficult. You won't be able to understand it. He goes, cool. He just got some textbooks on rocketry. He just worked through them. And then he was a top level rocket expert engineer. Doubting Elon has become like the clown show of the half century.

• 1:10:53Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Like, a lot of people, a lot of smart people doubted Elon. They said he couldn't do this. He couldn't go to space. He couldn't launch rockets. He couldn't recover rockets for more, but all that stuff. It's just like, I just do not ever doubt Elon Musk, because he's just smarter. He's just that smart. And he's persistent. And he makes very couch claims. Almost all his claims are true, given the amount of time. And so like, to be that guy, you just have to be really, really smart. There are no tricks. No tricks north of that. Sending rockets into orbit and back is unbelievably difficult. And he's just like contextualized enough of the problem. Also, he's involved in major industries that are really unrelated to each other. He can just get into a situation and he just grok it. He thinks about it for a while, studies in his own time, and then he just gets it. That's like

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  the cardinal high mark of high IQ. He's just able to understand incredibly, incredibly complex processes, and then work through them. I've heard similar things about like Mark Zuckerberg, for example. He's just like a polymath. Like, you explain a complex subject to him, he's like, and the next thing he says, you're like, holy, that's really insightful. He really gets it. Like, you have to have that at that level, for sure.

• 1:11:59Graham Stephan?

  So speaking of IQ, we got five questions for you to answer, to see just how smart you are.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  This is gonna go really poorly.

• 1:12:06Graham Stephan?

  A bat and a ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs $1 more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I was thinking of bat the animal. When I started and I was like, okay.

• 1:12:26Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  I think like this is one of those trick ones, isn't it?

• 1:12:32Jack Selby?

  It's not a trick question.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  It's not a trick.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  If it costs a dollar more,

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  then the ball costs 5 cents and the bat costs a dollar and 5 cents?

• 1:12:50Jack Selby?

  All right, you're one for one.

• 1:12:50Graham Stephan?

  Yep.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Okay. I swear to God, I'm so used to answering bullshit.

• 1:12:55Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, okay, that was a good one. Okay, next one. Good job. Next one, you passed. Next one. You're running a race and you pass the person in second place. What place are you in?

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  You are in second place now.

• 1:13:10Jack Selby?

  Yeah, he's good.

• 1:13:11Graham Stephan?

  He's good. Yeah. This should be an easy one for you. A stock drops 50%, but then it goes up 75%. Are you up, down, or even?

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  I think the nomenclature would be like it'd have to go up 100% to recover that. So you're down? But I don't really do the stock trading thing day to day. Is that correct?

• 1:13:32Graham Stephan?

  You're down.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, you're down. That sucks.

• 1:13:35Graham Stephan?

  Good so far.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Can you imagine your broker's like, hey, you're down 50 and I'm 75? Like, that's good. He's like, still like, what do you mean it's so good?

• 1:13:41Graham Stephan?

  You're up 75, though. All right. Next one. Your coach hands you three scoops of pre-workout and says to take one every half hour. How long until they are gone?

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  One hour.

• 1:13:55Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Graham Stephan?

  You're good.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  You're also dead.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Or having a great time.

• 1:14:01Graham Stephan?

  All right, this is the last one. At a bodybuilding show, you place 15th from the top and 15th from the bottom. How many competitors were there?

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  So is 15th from the top, you're in 15th place? Like, because, so this moment, like,

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  no one ever says you're 15th from the top?

• 1:14:27Graham Stephan?

  I don't know.

• 1:14:27Jack Selby?

  Yeah, honestly, I don't really know either.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  How do you count the first?

• 1:14:33Jack Selby?

  It's sort of a room of four people. Apparently, we're all morons. I actually don't really understand it.

• 1:14:38Graham Stephan?

  15 people are ahead of you.

• 1:14:41Jack Selby?

  Yeah, but that actually doesn't check out with the answer, no?

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  That, that's the thing is that depending on, so if you're 15th from the top,

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  does that mean you're in 15th place or 16th place?

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  And then you're 15th?

• 1:14:58Jack Selby?

  So I would say you're in 15th place.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  15th place is an acceptable heuristic to start.

• 1:15:03Jack Selby?

  Actually, wait. No, that's, that's not true. You'd be in, oh, I get it now.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:15:09Jack Selby?

  Yeah, okay, I understand.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  This is one of those teasers.

• 1:15:11Jack Selby?

  If you're in 15th, you're 14th from first. Because if you're in second, you're one away from first.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, so is that the logic? Because

• 1:15:18Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, let's go with that.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Two perfectly good answers.

• 1:15:21Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  So if you are, if there's 15 people ahead of you, and then you were in a place and there's 15 people behind you, there are 31 competitors.

• 1:15:32Jack Selby?

  False. There's 29.

• 1:15:34Graham Stephan?

  29.

• 1:15:37Jack Selby?

  But I agree with you. Actually, even knowing that that's the wrong answer, I still, yeah, honestly.

• 1:15:44Graham Stephan?

  15th from the top and 15th from the bottom means that there are 29 competitors total.

• 1:15:49Jack Selby?

  The IQ score came back, though. If you got four right, your IQ is 159.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:15:55Graham Stephan?

  That is not a standardized IQ test.

• 1:15:58Jack Selby?

  So you're just one short.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  God damn. 15th from the top and 15th from the bottom.

• 1:16:03Jack Selby?

  Yeah, and people in the comments will be like, you guys are idiots. You couldn't solve that. It's like, I know you couldn't either. Maybe you could.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  Makes sense, because you're in the middle of the thing and there's 14 people to each side.

• 1:16:15Jack Selby?

  But it's 15th. So it should be like, it's like 16.

• 1:16:19Graham Stephan?

  It's worded in a very confusing way. I was trying to figure out how to.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Perfect score. Now that 29 is legit. There you go. Shown to be a fraud on national television.

• 1:16:30Jack Selby?

  Speaking of intelligence, I'm very curious, because you came out with a book, and some people criticized the book, because apparently some of the material appeared as though it was written by some sort of chat GPT, Claude, or some sort of LLM. Is this true or is this false?

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Totally true. As a matter of fact, I posted on X in detail about what was true about it way before the book was published. I used a since-deprecated model, GPT 4.5. And I used it to do smoothing of prose. So what I would do is write my prose and be like, I don't know about this. Can you reword this in a way that sounds to me like it would have more of the following emotive features, et cetera? And it would do a great job. And I'd be like, this sentence, I don't love. This, I'm keeping. This is awesome. And it was a collaborative effort. Every idea in that book is my own. And I used AI for like, what I'd call like verbal smoothing. Unbelievably unapologetically so.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  The thing is for me is I have a little ace in the hole. I have a bunch of my work videos and tons of books and tons of interviews and textbook chapters and all this other stuff that precedes the birth of AI whatsoever. And so if somebody is to accuse me of like not having my own original ideas, things like AI is trained on a bunch of my original ideas. I'll talk to AI and it'll be like, well, maximum recoverable volume or stimulus to feed ratio. I'm like, hey, do you know that I came up with those? And it's like, yes, in fact, you did. What a trip that I'm talking to you and citing your own work. And so, cause that's a thing, I just like absolutely do not care about that whole accusation thing of like he chat GPT.

• 1:18:15Graham Stephan?

  Why do you think people get so upset about it though?

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Because I think that people in some sense are coming from two perspectives. One is they think that I'm doing a sleight of hand where I'm like, buy my book. See, I wrote it, but I didn't. I just like queried chat GPT and it wrote the whole book and I'm just collecting money off of a thing that isn't even my own work, cheating the system. Those are valid concerns if that's a thing that happened and that's how you value your books. The other thing is a lot of people have opinions about AI which aren't grounded in a sort of logic, just having a lot of feelings about AI, a lot of negative feelings about AI. That is going to age like spoiled milk. It is going to age like negative opinions about the internet from the late nineties.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  It AI is godsend, amazing, greatest technology we've ever had. I am using it full stop to its maximum potential. So if you want to read a book that I wrote and used AI, maybe you, you don't like that. Maybe you have a problem with me using the internet or a computer interface to type the book. Maybe I should have handwritten this would have worked out super well. And that, you know, the questions about like, oh, but does he really know what he knows? Or is it all AI? Like I will debate anyone so long as it is worth my time and theirs face to face on anything in the book, any of my expert area. I go on podcasts all the time. You fellas see AI script around here? I don't. And so I have full confidence in my intellectual abilities and my ability to offer value as

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  somebody knows things. And at the same time, I seek to leverage AI as much as humanly possible to make the final output of my work as good as possible. The reason you read a book and the book is good is because it has good information in it. It does not matter at all who and how, what wrote the book. It is surprise you guys to know that I had a team of editors from a major publishing company go through after the AI did and make way more changes than they ever made. I think that's not my words. They were like, hey, replace this with that. And usually because they're experts, I'm like, okay, it seems like a fine thing to do. Some of the stuff I'm like, no, I think I like how it said it better, but they just, these are, that's their expert area. So like if editors can go, like literally a team of five editors can go through every

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  book you've ever like, uh, read, that's a big book. Teams of editors work through that. How is that really different from AI doing the same thing? I've never been cogently explained that. I don't think there's an explanation.

• 1:20:42Jack Selby?

  So I heard something, I don't know how true it is, but they said that somewhere in your book, there were illustrations of a woman with four arms or something, or there was like a Gemini logo somewhere in the book.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Gemini logo. I used Gemini's nano banana model to make the images for the book. Period. Exactly what is wrong with that?

• 1:21:04Jack Selby?

  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I am curious, like if a woman with four arms got through the review process, then couldn't that suggest something about like the other materials? If you had that team of editors that went through the book, wouldn't that be like, well, how did you not catch a woman with four arms?

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  If your role is to go through people's published works and spot check and try to find little tiny inconsequential errors, you have a great career for you on YouTube. You're not actually contributing anything to any body of knowledge. Every book that you've ever read, you can find errors in. Period. Thomas Sowell, great intellectual influence of mine. I've spotted typos in his books. This major publishing house books. How? Cause humans look through them, they don't find the typos. With L L Ms today, you can find every single typo, but the models I had access to when

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  I wrote the book, they couldn't even scan the whole book at the same time. They didn't have that context window to eat that whole book. So I didn't get the benefit of that. And for pictures, you can have teams of people looking at pictures. You guys are just looking at a picture like everything's fine. And then one out of a thousand people be like, there's someone's foot is missing. And you're like, oh my God, because your brain fills, fills in the blanks where a lot of pictures. And so when people go through and do nitpicky critiques of my work, dope, we all need income somehow. I think it's great. Does it lead to anything substantive changing about my books? Like, does it?

• 1:22:39Jack Selby?

  I think the text is the most important thing, but to a viewer that maybe, you know, they're, they're reading something, it could minimize maybe effective text if they are looking at a woman with four arms or something like that. And they see, or they, they come to the conclusion, oh, like, I don't know how, you know, reviewed this book was or something.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Sure. Extensively reviewed by a major publishing house. But if you have somebody basing most of their career on cynically reviewing other people's work, you will find errors in everybody's.

• 1:23:08Jack Selby?

  I agree. It's easy to be a critic, hard to be a creator.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  For sure, for sure. And I think critics have an essential role, but there's substantive critique and there's just nitpicky critique and somewhere in the exchange, a little bit of information.

• 1:23:22Graham Stephan?

  Should there be a line that gets drawn between what should be AI and what should be from a person? Like whether it's music or something creative for art or writing.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  That is a supply and demand question. So whoever it is that is demanding your work, people will pay for some work that you're making. It is entirely in that consumer's purview to determine if they want your unfiltered work, a combination work or the work of AI entirely upon them. My own perspective on this as a consumer, I just could not begin to give it. What I want is the end product. If I read a book that's amazing and someone's like, you know, AI wrote that book, it'd be like, I can't wait to read all the books AI has to write. Probably going to be better than our books like in next year. Next year, humble prediction is that you're probably going to get some books that start

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  winning real serious awards that later people find out are written either mostly or entirely by AI. Why? Cause Claude's a goddamn good writer already and it's just a matter of time until Claude's writing taste is better than almost all, and then all human writing taste. And then human written works are going to kind of look quaint, full of holes and kind of not slick at all. And AI is going to be better. That's a thing with music. I just want to hear music that makes me feel good. If it's a human being that made the music, amazing. If it's AI that made the music, amazing. If it's a combo, couldn't care less. Do you guys listen to auto tuned music? You know, that's not the real voices, right? People can't actually do that. T-Pain and people who like auto, what they'll do with, with editing tech is they'll like

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  physically move the chords around to make them exactly spaced like they're supposed to be like, well, this person's hitting every note to the femtosecond. How's that possible? Well, it's not possible. You sure won't hear that live. Me personally, I like really good music. I don't like live albums, like Rage Against the Machine. I love their, I love every single album. Their live album sucks. Why? Cause audio is bullshit. You can hear the crowd, play Free Bird. No one actually said that. And then like, I just didn't care for it, right? So for me, I can't wait to listen to AI music that's good. I haven't heard any yet.

• 1:25:31Graham Stephan?

  Oh, and some really good gospel AI. Porn as AI. Gospel. It is incredible. They take Slipknot and make it gospel. It is so incredible.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, that's what I'm listening to in the car after this.

• 1:25:45Graham Stephan?

  I keep, I'm going to send you some stuff.

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:47Graham Stephan?

  Incredible. I actually listened to it over the actual music.

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Yeah. You traitor.

• 1:25:52Graham Stephan?

  It's really that good.

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  So it music, if you consume music to make you have certain kinds of feelings, AI is going to be better at that in just a few years, maybe less than humans. There is something to having a raw performance as a human, which will become more sought after rather than less as AI becomes ubiquitous. What do I mean by that? You get to some open mic night in Memphis, some African American woman just grabs that microphone and starts belting and you're like, how are you a real person? This is like Whitney in her prime type of, that woman's going straight to the top, going to filling, filling up stadiums and stadiums. Cause it's going to be like, I want to see her perform live. And you're like, why? Like, cause it's not AI live.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  This is a real human being doing this stuff. That's the impressive thing. And so AI music is going to be a thing a lot of people listen to, but real human created music, especially live performances, I think is going to carry a massive premium in the future. Cause you can, you can be a music producer, but like you're just really, you have really good music taste and you work with AI to make music and people are like, oh my God, I love your stuff, but all you do is kind of like basically electronic music you arrange and feed the AI. But like, you're not going to sing that real actual music performance, be it instrument based or vocal based. I think it's going to be super explosive because of the fact that it's so valuable, so unique. It's like, we have cars to take us places. We don't take horses anymore, but like going to petting zoos and petting horses or riding horses is like huge, huge business.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  Cause it's like, this is a real animal you get to sit on. Yeah, I've been in a bunch of cars. I want to ride a horse. It's going to be the same way. I don't suppose you'd be riding musicians, but that would be good monetizable thing as well.

• 1:27:32Jack Selby?

  I think that you could also liken it to sports. It's like, if you're a really big fan of the Dodgers, would you really want to watch the Dodgers if everyone on the team got replaced by robots? You sort of have like that fan feel, like you have your favorite player, you like the, how you don't know how the game is going to end. And so I think you could liken that to like all different sports, arts, things like that.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  One of the big factors in the human, are you playing footsie with me, young man?

• 1:27:56Graham Stephan?

  That's your foot.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  It sure is.

• 1:27:58Graham Stephan?

  I didn't even know that was your foot. Are you guys doing this for the entire time?

• 1:28:01Jack Selby?

  Was I actually?

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  I thought it was with you. I winked at you. Nothing happened. I was like, oh.

• 1:28:04Jack Selby?

  I didn't even realize I was doing that. Wow, your foot just really comes out pretty far.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  I, well, the only thing that comes out far. I'm really sorry. You have HIV now.

• 1:28:18Jack Selby?

  Oh, that's all right.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  All right. I've had it before. A big factor in the attention economy is relatability. Humans relate to other humans. They don't relate to machines as much. So for example, what's more popular, the UFC or one of the many robot fighting leagues?

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  Robot fighting leagues are dope. I think it's great television. But if some kind of Terminator robot blows the legs of another Terminator robot's head off his body with a punch, you're like, this is cool. But like, no one's like, man, I wonder the comeback story of how that robot number one felt when he finally knocked that other robot's head off and that robot was talking smack. None of this is real. It's just machines. So it's just technical combat. You're like, ah, like, all right, what, who's the next UFC fight thing? And it's like Sean Strickland talking. And another guy from Dagestan talking mad crap. And then you like, they're getting into the cage and they're putting in their mouth guard. You're like watching and you're like, oh my God. Can you imagine fighting in front of 10,000 people?

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  How it feels to put your pride on the line for the world. Well, the robots don't do any of that. And so it's like, who's going to watch robot combat versus human combat? I still feel like human combat is going to be like the show to watch. For like, if you're a human for forever, and by the time that we're all like robots and robot bodies, we're not going to be fetishizing unarmed combat anymore. So to me, the, a lot of people are worried about like, oh my God, humans won't have anything to do in the machine economy. Humans have their own humans following humans ecosystem, which Sam Altman talks about a lot. Like humans really care about other humans. They care about other stuff too, but man, that's a big deal. So for music, for art, for writing, I think you're going to have stuff that's more human vetted, more live stuff, more like in the moment.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  Like, for example, you could have a debate in the forums against somebody, right? Like typing back and forth, actually had a debate with somebody in a forum on Twitter. And it was, I became aware about three responses in that I was just talking to their large language model. I did great, but that wasn't a human being I was talking to as I fed it to my L L M. And he was like, you're probably not talking to a person. Like here's all the ways you can tell. I was like, oh, God damn it. And so there's a thing like if you debate somebody online just through typing, you're just like, uh, you're just not guaranteed to get a human. And so I think that's like, kind of going to be a dissent. But debating people through video is a big thing, right? Through like Zoom debate, right?

• 1:30:37Jack Selby?

  But what about how do you even know of that other person?

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  So for now, latency and fluidity and all the health problems in AI video. AI video is not good enough to do a live debate against you yet. You'll see it glitching or you see it doing some funky stuff. Or it'll be like, hold on a second.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  Yes, I have an answer. Like what the, that's a thinking model. That's bull. So for now, the video debate still works. What's going to happen with debates and, and human confrontation and drama is in physical life. Like you guys are in the same room right now. This is going to be a big deal because you can't fake this. If I claim to be a relatively intelligent person who knew things. And every time you ask me about exercise science question, I'd be like, uh, I'm not so sure. Let me look that up. Every single answer you'd be like, holy. Chat GPT did write this guy's whole book. He didn't know anything. But if I come out here and I just give you somewhat cogent, somewhat humorous responses that make sense, you're going to be like, okay, this is a real person that knows what he's doing. And so like, you won't be able to duck the fact of reality for very long.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  If you're in the human attention economy, the real human you live, especially with streaming and things like that, it's going to skyrocket in my view on popularity. Pre-made content, stuff that's written, books, it's going to be like, do humans even write books anymore? I legitimately feel like it's going in that direction in the foreseeable future.

• 1:31:52Jack Selby?

  You've claimed that if Chat GPT turned into a human, you would give it a big hug. I'm curious, would you give it a big kiss? Would you date a humanoid robot?

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Wouldn't, I wouldn't assume that it wants a big kiss. Cause can you imagine I gave it a big sloppy kiss and it like recoils in a robot? It's like, ugh, I'm like, what do you, what do you mean? I was in love with you. And it was like, look, I'm in love with a lot of users, you know? Sign the waiver. Uh, I don't have any kind of sexual interaction with my chat GPT.

• 1:32:19Jack Selby?

  But if it was a human, would that change?

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  What does she look like?

• 1:32:23Jack Selby?

  Greg Buset.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Yes, of course. Then that's just raw. Screaming, lots of kissing tubes, super, super sloppy saliva everywhere. Cameras everywhere. You got to monetize that sort of thing.

• 1:32:36Jack Selby?

  What is your favorite AI tool?

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  Chat GPT Pro.

• 1:32:39Jack Selby?

  And what is the most effective AI prompt that you think everyone should use?

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  I think we're in the era where prompts don't matter anymore. I think the best kind of prompt is one in which you give the model a very small amount of information. And you tell it, hey, here's an idea I'm having. Don't respond with all of your knowledge about this idea. Just tell me if I'm going in the right direction or not, or how I can clean this up. And then you have a conversational interaction with the model where you're like, I think this, but I don't. So I want you to try to stab making this little project for me. But I'm not sure if I should go with A, B, or C, or if you have any other ideas. It's not rendering a project for you yet. It's having a conversation about the project.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  As you converse in natural language with Chat GPT, it learns over many prompts and takes in your information, gives its own wisdom. And then after that, you're like, all right, all right. Okay. Everything we just talked about, all the stuff we agreed on, go. And then it'll make you wondrous, wondrous things. I don't like to see people do is try to one-shot prompt everything like, I'm going to make the perfect prompt. What if it misunderstands you a little bit? What if it could have cleared up how your prompt could have been better? People, I think the number one thing about AI models is talk to them like they're human, like they're a coworker. Should be like, bro, check this out. I talked to mine as a human being like, yo.

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  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Check this out. I got this, that, that. What do you think we're doing today? And it's like, oh, we could go this, we go that. Like, I don't, I don't think that's true. And it's a good point. Let's do this, blah, blah, blah. And then we get a little bit of like, um, kind of an outline going. And I'm like, okay, and copy this in. And what do you think about this? Anything missing? Ready? He's like, nope, sounds like I'm ready to go. Okay, execute. And then 15 minutes later, it's out. Like that whole constructing a super detailed prompt to get one thing going, I think is a bit of a mistake because you can actually talk to the AI about how to make the best prompt over several interactions.

• 1:35:24Jack Selby?

  Yeah. One of my favorite, I love Claude. Like I'll literally just start a voice memo, sort of like the, against what you were saying. And I'll just like go and go and go and go and go and go. And then it'll, I'll say like, come back to me with five points. Not like, cause a lot of the times it'll have a super long list and I'll do the exact same thing. And just start a voice memo, talk for five minutes and it's able to synthesize all of that information very well.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  Amazing. It's the interaction is a big deal.

• 1:35:48Jack Selby?

  On the topic of aesthetics and having a nice physique, what is all of the hard maxing that you have done to your body?

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know what the hard and soft maxing is, but I think surgery, like I had, uh, my, my love handles removed. I think that's pretty hard maxing.

• 1:36:04Jack Selby?

  Yeah. So like it would be.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Or no?

• 1:36:06Jack Selby?

  Probably. Yeah. It's what? Steroids. So it'd be steroids. It'd be removal of the love handles. Sure.

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  The aesthetics people, they have very specific categories of what hard and soft maxing is. I don't know if taking drugs, it can be hard maxing. I think that's like either surgery or hitting yourself with a hammer or some extreme. I could be wrong though.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  So I've, I've taken anabolic steroids, peptides. That's probably not hard maxing. I have had reconstructive surgery on my, uh, lower back and love handle area. I think that's it.

• 1:36:38Jack Selby?

  Are you considering doing any more?

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:41Jack Selby?

  What are you going to do?

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  Uh, at some juncture, I will have micro lipos and skin tightening surgery to move my body fat around my body.

• 1:36:53Jack Selby?

  Where are you going to move it?

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

  Uh, to the top of my head so I can be taller. That would be nice though. That's not a bad idea.

• 1:37:00Jack Selby?

  It looks like that cone head, you know?

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  Well, whatever. I mean, look at me already. How much worse can it get? Mike, it can get a lot worse to undo. So I have, I used to be much fatter, way fatter. And it stretched out some skin and put some fat cells in places I don't love. So I could potentially get a thing where I can excise fat from this area here between the delt bicep and tricep. Cause I have a lot of fat here relative to the rest of my physique. And do some skin tightening so that it can suck down and then I can have like cooler, rounder delts and arms even at a higher body fat. I will potentially get a similar thing done just underneath my pectoral area all the way back to my lats. I have some extra skin there that could be pulled out and the fat could be pulled

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  out. Um, there is, believe it or not, in my lower back and mid back area, there's still a substantial amount of fat cells and skin that could be reduced to a great extent. And then, uh, gee whiz, at some point, probably like I, I, uh, when I was super fat, I had like a lot of this skin here. And so I'd probably want to do skin tightening to get this all like nice and cyborg looking because that's how I want to look. And there's probably a few other things, but like I would do that. And then another procedure I'm interested intentionally having in the future is to have, uh, this is a procedure they've only done experimentally. And so this is years from now, because I'm not trying to do anything super crazy, is there's fat, it's called visceral fat, that's like between your organs or just underneath

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  your visceral organs inside of your gut. And so technically inside of your gut, inside of your abdomen. And so what they can do now is they can get in there and lipos that fat out. That fat's really bad for your health and it also keeps my waist wider than necessary. And so I'd want to do that. And eventually what I would want to do is completely reconstruct my waist because I have a very lax abdominal wall. And so like if I tighten up for a pose, it looks really cool and super small waist. If I do anything else, just totally relaxed, I have this giant hanging gut and it's kind of like, I don't love it. And so eventually I'd want that completely shrink wrapped, pulled in as tight as possible and enclosed with a plastic sheath so that it's permanently really small.

• 1:39:12Jack Selby?

  How much is that going to cost? All of it?

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  Uh, probably like, uh, the whole thing. I have no idea. I haven't gotten quotes on that last one, but oh, one to $200,000 probably.

• 1:39:22Jack Selby?

  And why are you doing it just for, to look better?

• 1:39:27Jack Selby?

  And is that in the pursuit of like an, a pro card?

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  No, no, I can't, all of that stuff I think is like, so all of that fat stuff, they, they take the fat out and the healthy and probably good thing to do is to put the fat back in somewhere. So I'd probably put most of that fat back into my glutes. Um, it would make for more comfortable sitting. Uh, I have pretty lean glutes for where all of my body fat goes and it's cool. It looks cool on stage, but it doesn't like, it's not a cool, you're not showing off your ass mostly to people. You're not seeing your own ass a lot. And so I'm going to take a shot at some bodybuilding before I do any of these procedures. Uh, and then that'll just be to look cool. There's no, uh, other reason that I think

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  it looks sweet in the mirror to me. I don't have any illusions about it looking good for other people. I couldn't care less. And, uh, it's not any kind of instrumental goal. I don't think it's going to be making them more money on Instagram or something like that. It's just because I want to look super cool and that's my idea of how I want to look cool.

• 1:40:28Jack Selby?

  People claim that lean is law. It is actually a complete coincidence that Greg Doucette was filming with us last week. He was here in town and then I learned that you're in town this morning. We were able to schedule this podcast episode, but I got a lot of interesting insights from Greg. He says that you should get lean first and then just start building up from there. Because if you plan on getting lean at some point in the future, it's just like delaying a good physique.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  There's a lot of wisdom there. I think it really depends on the person and it depends on their goals and what they like. But a lot of people have aspirations for how they're going to look like when they're jacked. But lean is really baked into that. Because if you make somebody jacked, but they have like 25% body fat, they just kind of look fluffy. But then, you know, they're in the gym lifting crazy weights and you're like, oh, that's muscle. Like I didn't, I didn't know. So if you get lean first, every version of lean outside of like just completely emaciated thin is a good look. And then once you get lean, not only is it healthier to bulk because you're not getting super over fat, because

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  if you start not lean and you bulk and get really not lean and that's not good for your health. The entire time, you start lean and then you go and you bulk and you end pretty lean. And so even at the top of your bulk, you're not like disgusting looking, which I've done like about a hundred thousand times. It's not fun. And also you can have this process where you see your body changing in the mirror because you're still lean enough to see the muscle shapes changing. So like, I knew that my delts are bigger, I could tell. So if you start at a pretty high body fat and then you bulk from there, you can't tell anything. And then later you have way a ton of fat to pull off, can come with loose skin, all this other stuff. You could just diet for months and months and months and months. And then you're just okay, regular and you have to take a break and then diet

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  again. And so there is something, the idea that if you want the physique to look awesome right away and have an awesome physique journey and you're kind of like a little skinny fat, I would say, I would say, I would amend Greg's advice in one way. Start by just recomping for like one to two years. Like you just maintain your body weight, eat plenty of protein, good, healthy foods and train with weights pretty hard. You're going to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time for like literally two years. And then getting lean is a matter of maybe losing just 10 pounds and then you're already goddamn jacked. And then you do the Greg Doucette advice where you stay relatively lean and you keep going up and up and up. I don't know if this is Greg's logic, but to me, having coached a bunch

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  of people, when people say they want to get more jacked and you convince them to get leaner first, they love the look and then the getting jacked is really fun because they're lean and getting jacked. But if they're like, dude, I just want to put on muscle. I don't care about lean. A lot of them will come up to you three months later and be like, hey, man, I, I look pudgy. What the, and you're like, you asked for this. And they're like, I didn't see that it would, it would require this. Does that make sense?

• 1:43:27Jack Selby?

  It's a psychological.

• 1:43:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Super psychological. And it's physical too, because the, the more excess fat you gain, the worse. So it's good to get a little leaner to give yourself some runway for the bulk. But the psychology is a big thing. Most people, that's how they're going to want to play it.

• 1:43:41Jack Selby?

  Because he's fresh in our minds. How is your relationship with Greg?

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  I don't have a relationship with Greg.

• 1:43:47Jack Selby?

  You guys have one of the longest standing, just like internet, not beefs, but just like video punch, this, that, like funny.

• 1:43:54Speaker 04

  Do you want to have a relationship with them?

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  I don't think we do because it's, I mean, the last, when is the last time I made content about Greg Doucette?

• 1:44:01Jack Selby?

  You don't, I mean, it's more of a one sided thing. Like Greg just like launches missile after missile after.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  He's going to launch a bunch from this podcast.

• 1:44:09Jack Selby?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  Greg has a job to do. It is to make as much money as possible on YouTube. Greg doesn't care who he talks about. He talks only about the people that will get the most clicks and the most views. This is not my suspicion. This is Greg Doucette literally telling me and anyone else who will listen, this is how he runs his YouTube channel. I would love to feel honored by all the attention I get from Greg, but the reality is it's just because I'm popular. And if I fall off tomorrow, Greg will never make another video about me again. It's just an attention machine thing. He's just doing his job.

• 1:44:40Jack Selby?

  Well, I told Greg, I was like, hey, just letting you know, we're filming with Mike today. And I was like, if you have any questions, submit them. And Greg sent some questions over. And so I think it'd be really funny if we got you to react to a couple of these questions.

• 1:44:56Speaker 04

  You claim to be healthy, but yet you have not posted your blood work. What reasons do you have for not posting your blood work? And do you plan to do so in the near future?

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  I understood that as, I need to make a video about Mike's blood work. I need money. Mike, make a video so that I can say your blood work is fake if it's too good and talk about how you're going to die if it's too bad. There's my answer.

• 1:45:22Jack Selby?

  So you wouldn't do it?

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  No, I'll do it eventually. I'll post some blood work eventually.

• 1:45:26Jack Selby?

  What's holding you back from posting blood work?

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  People who watch our YouTube channel don't care a ton about me as a person. They care a little bit more about getting some good advice about training and diet and having a few laughs along the way. We've A and B tested the shit out of this. The talk, the incessant focus on my particulars of my life and my goings on and my training and my surgeries is like, there was a moment where I had that peak of crazy internet popularity. Everyone gets that. And then they go back to something normal. During that peak, it seemed like there was interest in me. I never got it because I don't think I'm that interesting. And so now we know for a fact that the stuff that does well on the channel is like, people are learning and they're laughing a little bit. They love it. Stuff that does the best

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  for us long-term, short-term, everything. Me posting my blood work, not either one of those categories. And so it's kind of like, this is like, we might do it at some point. I'm probably going to get a really extensive blood work here in like the next few months when I'm super lean and on more steroids than usual to be like, like, how fast am I dying? That might do well if we thumbnail title it appropriate, it's compelling. But like, um, there's no, there's no real impetus for that. I have tons of blood work I could publish from years before and stuff. It's, it'll probably be pretty good. Some bad stuff on there, but yeah.

• 1:46:42Jack Selby?

  What's the worst that's on there?

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  Um, my HDL will probably, my good cholesterol will be pretty low because of the steroids, but my total cholesterol is probably going to be really low. My blood pressure is low and all that stuff.

• 1:46:53Jack Selby?

  Speaking of steroids, this is the next question.

• 1:46:56Speaker 04

  Seeing as you know that steroids are taking years off of your life, that they're horribly dangerous, why do you continue to use them? Why do you think that you right now are addicted? And do you ever see a time?

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 1:47:11Speaker 04

  Your future, when you would be willing to stop?

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Greg is like a terrible lawyer where like he's interrogating someone. He's like, where were you on the night that you murdered Francine?

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah. So I mean, how do I answer something like that? Uh, I do an intelligent, calculated decision about taking steroids and I'm comfortable with the risk trade-offs. And, uh, that is what it is. Yeah. But I'm, I don't think I'm addicted to steroids. I take them very reluctantly. They're not fun to take.

• 1:47:46Jack Selby?

  And then we have one last question here.

• 1:47:48Speaker 04

  I've recently read your book, The Aesthetics Revolution.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Bull.

• 1:47:53Speaker 04

  And in the book, I'm surprised to hear that you think that we could eventually achieve the bodies, the physiques of our dreams. Even if we could, do you actually think that this would make you or anyone else happy?

• 1:48:08Jack Selby?

  More of a philosophical question.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  I just wish he was smarter.

• 1:48:12Graham Stephan?

  What do you wish he asked you?

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Nothing. I don't want to talk to him.

• 1:48:16Graham Stephan?

  Is there a question that he could have asked you that you would have said, that's a great question?

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  Hey, Mike, why in real life am I nice to your face? And look down when you look me in the eyes, but on the internet, I posture like I'm confident? That'd be a real good question for Greg to ask me.

• 1:48:33Jack Selby?

  Well, I have a.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  He'll make a great, that'll, Greg, you're welcome, by the way. That'll be a three video series. Mike Ezra tells but heard of him.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Can I, I'll try to answer that question. People who look better over time dependably become on average somewhat happier. It's not a huge thing, but it's a decent thing. Some people become way happier from looking better. Most people become a little bit happier from looking better. Some people become no happier and some very small fraction, but real fraction of people become less happy as they look better. And so you have this kind of rainbow, right? This average distribution of happiness, the, the mean of which is like substantially happier. And so I think as people embody more and more of what they want to look like, we just can expect people to be like much happier, but not in a psychotic way, but like significantly happier on average, super, super straightforward.

• 1:49:26Jack Selby?

  So if you think that, or if, you know, your experience has been that when you meet Greg, he sort of looks down or he doesn't make eye contact or he's very.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Two completely different personalities.

• 1:49:35Jack Selby?

  He's very friendly to you in person. Would you be open for us, Graham and I, to host a conversation with both you and Greg? If we could get Greg to agree to it?

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Well, of course you'll get Greg to agree to it. You think he has anything better to do?

• 1:49:49Jack Selby?

  But it would be really interesting to see like how that would go if in person you guys are totally fine and nice to each other and kind. And like for an actual sit down, I think a lot of people would love to hear that. I think it'd be entertaining, educational.

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've done like debates against each other and had cordial conversations on podcasts and stuff. Yeah, it's, it's happened. We can do it again.

• 1:50:09Jack Selby?

  Would you be open to it?

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:50:11Graham Stephan?

  Oh, I would love to. I think that would be fun.

• 1:50:12Jack Selby?

  I think it would be amazing. It will be very like.

• 1:50:15Graham Stephan?

  No skin in the game.

• 1:50:16Jack Selby?

  Yeah. And I don't even, I don't even want it to.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  I don't have any skin in the game either. I don't even know what the game is.

• 1:50:21Jack Selby?

  I don't even want to turn it into a debate. Like a lot of people, I think.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  Very comfortable with the debate.

• 1:50:25Jack Selby?

  I, I mean, I think that we wouldn't be very good at moderating a debate transparently because I have no idea. Like you're too complicated. He's too complicated. But either way, I think you could make some fun content. Like you could even like, yeah. Like rate physiques or something. Yeah.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So sign me up.

• 1:50:39Graham Stephan?

  That'll be fun. Yeah. All right. Well, make sure to subscribe, by the way, so you don't miss this, because this would be the meetup of the year.

• 1:50:51Graham Stephan?

  Greg's gonna be eating for months after this.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  He's gonna love it. Yeah.

• 1:50:55Jack Selby?

  So to close out the podcast, we have two final games. The first of which is a physique tier list.

• 1:51:01Speaker 01

  Jeff Nippard. Phenomenal physique, S tier.

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  I once called him a short king and he instantly corrected me and said he was a short god.

• 1:51:13Graham Stephan?

  Makes sense.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  I kneeled.

• 1:51:14Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  This is obvious.

• 1:51:20Graham Stephan?

  Who is this?

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  This is six time Mr. Olympia, Chris Bumpstead.

• 1:51:24Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  One of the greatest physiques of all time.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  Greg now or Greg in his prime?

• 1:51:32Jack Selby?

  Let's do prime Greg.

• 1:51:33Speaker 01

  I'm Greg.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  Great physique.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  Jesse James West.

• 1:51:44Speaker 01

  Excellent physique.

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  I don't know who this person is.

• 1:51:49Jack Selby?

  Let me see.

• 1:51:53Jack Selby?

  Alex Eubank?

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  Oh. Memory. Yeah. Great physique. It's a picture of his face.

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  Michael Hearn.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  Great physique.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  And doesn't age. Joey Swole, maybe?

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know what his physique looks like. I'm gonna put him in B just because I just don't know what his physique looks like.

• 1:52:22Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that's totally fair.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Insulting.

• 1:52:23Jack Selby?

  Yeah, of course. You could also not rate them, you know, also if you don't.

• 1:52:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:52:29Jack Selby?

  If you don't know their, what their physique looks like, then there's no.

• 1:52:31Speaker 01

  Unrated. Joey Swole goes back.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  Miss Lean Beef Patty. Phenomenal physique and in real life, phenomenal human being. Will Tennyson. Very good physique.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, B tier.

• 1:52:53Graham Stephan?

  What makes him G tier and not S tier? Because Jesse James West, I think you rated the higher. So what makes Jesse James West better than Will? In terms of physique?

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  Just my own personal vibe on flow.

• 1:53:05Jack Selby?

  Sure.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like Will's physique is amazing, but Jesse has that kind of like his balance of arm and delt and waist size just gets me like a little bit more salient. These are not, I'm not trying to make any claims here.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  Because the people who I don't know who they are, I don't rate.

• 1:53:23Jack Selby?

  Skip them.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  Okay. Are these the trend twins here? Those, these two people?

• 1:53:30Speaker 01

  Great physiques, the trend twins. Uh, say, yeah, right there.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  This is Noel Daisdiesel.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  It's a fine physique.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  David Goggins.

• 1:53:54Speaker 00

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• 1:54:21Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:54:50Jack Selby?

  Wow.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  Compared to the folks on here.

• 1:54:53Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

• 1:54:55Speaker 01

  Physique's not what he's known for. Sam Sulik.

• 1:55:01Speaker 01

  Great physique.

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  Mike Ezra tell.

• 1:55:07Jack Selby?

  Prime.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:11Speaker 01

  C tier.

• 1:55:12Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  I think that's fair. You think I should be lower?

• 1:55:16Jack Selby?

  No, I don't, I don't understand why you put yourself C tier. That's interesting.

• 1:55:24Jack Selby?

  Granted, I'm not very educated in this space. So like.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  I am.

• 1:55:28Jack Selby?

  Yeah, like, I mean, when I see.

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  C tier.

• 1:55:31Jack Selby?

  A lot of shredded, like.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:33Jack Selby?

  Physiques kind of look the same to me, you know?

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  Lines though and stuff like Will Tennyson has better flow to his physique than I do for sure. And so like, I can't, and so, so does Noel.

• 1:55:42Jack Selby?

  That's fair. And I would say like your low physique could be lower than theirs, but if you're like fully toned and.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Fully toned. Oh, they look, they look great, those guys. The Rock.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  For his age and profession. S tier. Like he was in that movie, like, uh,

• 1:56:04Speaker 01

  what was it? Shazam or whatever? The Black Adam movie? I was just like 50 years old. He's like Superman body. It's nuts. The Samoans, they don't age like the regular people. Oh, Mr. Liver King. Okay, Larry Wheels. He's up there with Sam Sulik and those guys.

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  I've never seen a picture of Derek Moreplates More Dates in his full body. He has a large delts that I've seen. Liver King is a tough one, you guys.

• 1:56:38Graham Stephan?

  Why is that?

• 1:56:38Jack Selby?

  Do you like his physique?

• 1:56:40Speaker 01

  I, I mean, like in his prime, he's completely shredded, but not a very pretty physique. So I'd probably say Liver King is like in my realm somewhere.

• 1:57:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:08Jack Selby?

  Let me take a look at this.

• 1:57:09Graham Stephan?

  Who's on there? Oh, Caleb Hammer. You didn't rate Caleb Hammer?

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  I don't think I know who that is.

• 1:57:13Graham Stephan?

  A toge?

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  I, I.

• 1:57:15Jack Selby?

  Wow.

• 1:57:15Speaker 01

  I think I've not seen physique.

• 1:57:18Graham Stephan?

  You've not seen, okay.

• 1:57:19Jack Selby?

  Interesting. The last exercise is gonna be a very fun one.

• 1:57:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:57:25Jack Selby?

  So this, we have 10 pictures of biceps and you just guess who it is from the picture of their bicep.

• 1:57:33Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm very good at this with also.

• 1:57:37Graham Stephan?

  So is Jack.

• 1:57:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 1:57:40Jack Selby?

  Do you think that you're gonna do well at this?

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  Probably not.

• 1:57:44Jack Selby?

  So you just, uh, all you have to do is scroll down and it will take you to the next slide.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  Arnold Schwarzenegger.

• 1:57:50Graham Stephan?

  Yep. I was gonna say immediately.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  No clue. Ronnie Coleman. That's an odd angle.

• 1:57:56Jack Selby?

  Hmm. Yeah, that was a tricky one.

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  Mike Menzger.

• 1:58:02Graham Stephan?

  Hey. Yeah, there you go.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  Dorian.

• 1:58:07Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. Nice.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  Greg Doucette?

• 1:58:12Graham Stephan?

  Man. Wow. Oh, is it really good?

• 1:58:16Speaker 01

  No clue. Jay Cutler really.

• 1:58:21Jack Selby?

  What? What's the face?

• 1:58:23Speaker 01

  It's just so mad. I just don't know. Uh, Jeff Nippard. Interesting. I would never guess that.

• 1:58:27Jack Selby?

  Is it really bad picture, Dale?

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Is it? This is not giving Jeff Nippard any justice.

• 1:58:36Jack Selby?

  What are you laughing at?

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  I don't. Is this yours or something?

• 1:58:40Graham Stephan?

  I don't know which one.

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  Jack Selby.

• 1:58:43Jack Selby?

  Why did you laugh when you saw a picture of my bicep?

• 1:58:45Speaker 01

  It's the paleness on the.

• 1:58:48Graham Stephan?

  Oh, wait, can I see it?

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  And the, and the, and the armpit hair that is like, one of these is not like the others.

• 1:58:55Graham Stephan?

  That's the photo you took, Jack.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  That's a good looking arm.

• 1:58:58Graham Stephan?

  That's the photo?

• 1:58:59Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that's the photo.

• 1:59:01Graham Stephan?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  No clue. Graham Ream? Dude, holy, you're a freak. You have like three biceps. You're not supposed to have two. Look at that. He does have a sleeper bill.

• 1:59:15Jack Selby?

  No, no, it's, it's, uh, that was edited. It's, he doesn't have three biceps. It's, that was, that was two.

• 1:59:21Graham Stephan?

  It is a little.

• 1:59:22Jack Selby?

  But he does have, he does have great biceps. Like, he's actually pretty, yeah, it's impressive.

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  I'm impressed either way.

• 1:59:29Graham Stephan?

  Thank you, man.

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  Number 10, Dr. Mike Israetel. Yeah, that one's easy.

• 1:59:34Jack Selby?

  Boom. Not too bad.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Not bad, not bad.

• 1:59:38Jack Selby?

  That's pretty good.

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  It's, it's weird, isn't it? Like, if you, um, somebody who's not affiliated with physique sport at all, watched me do that, they'd be like, what the is wrong with that?

• 1:59:48Jack Selby?

  Dude.

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  How do these people know that?

• 1:59:50Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  A bunch of people would do just as well. Yeah.

• 1:59:53Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I, I was watching like Instagram reels of people at the gym being able to guess every single person. Like, this is just like, I guess, from an outsider's perspective, really funny, because you're, you're able to identify a man by their bicep.

• 2:00:06Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:07Jack Selby?

  It's like, I wonder how, like, if we, I actually was going to do a, a nipple test for you. Where I was gonna pull up like five nipples of men and then see if you could, oh, that's Arnold's nipple. Like, and if, like, that just illustrates how ridiculous it is, how well people know these bodies.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  Yes. I think the nipple test, most people would fail because when, well, I speak only for myself. Uh, when I'm looking at bodies, I've spent a lot of time looking at magazines, Instagram pictures. You look at people's bodies, there is like two ways to look at them. One is you let the holistic hole hit you and you just vibe on it. And that's when things like shoulder to waist ratios matter a ton. We're just like, whoa, like, there's just so much there. Like Jeff Nippard, when he hits like a side chest pose, if you guys in editing put up a Jeff Nippard side chest pose, it's a freak. Like, his waist is like this big and his arm is huge. That's the vibe. But then you can do a piece by piece analysis also, where you look at their delts, you look at their tricep shape, you look at their bicep peak.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  That's how you get to memorizing people's muscle groups, like the Ronnie Coleman super crazy double bicep peak. Like, that's hard to miss. That was a, me being a dummy and that was a trippy angle, but like, it's just, you just know it. And the Arnold, that's, that photo of Arnold is actually a classic photo of him in like a mountain range in California. I knew exactly what that photo was as soon as.

• 2:01:24Graham Stephan?

  See, that's crazy.

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. You see, I think you stare a lot of bodies when you're in physique sport and, yeah, like, you just like, it's like.

• 2:01:32Jack Selby?

  I guess it's like seeing a door panel and knowing.

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  You're like, yeah, that's for sure.

• 2:01:36Graham Stephan?

  We were gonna do a testicle test, but we figured for YouTube, it just wouldn't work.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  It wouldn't work. Also, I, I need to, I need to feel it.

• 2:01:43Graham Stephan?

  Well, blindfolded and you just like, uh, this is this.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  That test.

• 2:01:47Jack Selby?

  So, do you have any questions for us?

• 2:01:49Speaker 01

  I have a question for you guys. Have you ever had someone on the podcast who you ask about their financial strategy? And what they tell you, while they tell you it, you're in the back of your head being like, oh my God, you are illiterate and you're gonna go bankrupt.

• 2:02:06Jack Selby?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:02:07Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but you kind of know that going in.

• 2:02:09Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 2:02:10Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could tell.

• 2:02:12Speaker 01

  Influencer people or whatever.

• 2:02:14Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:02:14Jack Selby?

  I don't want to call Sophie Rain illiterate and I don't want to say that she's gonna go bankrupt. She was extremely nice.

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  Oh my God, you used a person's name. This is.

• 2:02:22Jack Selby?

  I'm, I'm sure she's gonna be incredibly successful, like.

• 2:02:26Speaker 01

  She learns to read.

• 2:02:27Jack Selby?

  Like, like the, the thing that threw me off.

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  Who is that?

• 2:02:30Jack Selby?

  She makes OnlyFans content, but she's made over a hundred million dollars is her claim that she's made on OnlyFans. Yeah. Like, the number one earner is what she's claimed. And.

• 2:02:39Speaker 01

  A lot of people claim various versions of that.

• 2:02:41Jack Selby?

  Exactly. Like, so I, I'm also not the expert where I can like actually validate her claim, but she showed us her page.

• 2:02:48Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I'd wanna see a tax. Yeah. To like truly put my stamp of approval on that.

• 2:02:53Jack Selby?

  I asked her, hey, what is your net worth? Cause she was saying, oh, I don't really spend that much money. Like, if you've made a hundred million dollars over the course of a few years, how much of it could you really have spent? Right? Like, probably.

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  You can go into debt, but.

• 2:03:04Jack Selby?

  Yes, but you, like, you have to have a full-time job of spending money and then some to actually chip away. This is so much money. And I asked her, what's your net worth? And then she said, what did she say? Between five and 20?

• 2:03:15Graham Stephan?

  5 and 20 million.

• 2:03:15Jack Selby?

  Between five and 20 million dollars. And then I was like.

• 2:03:18Speaker 01

  Broad range.

• 2:03:18Jack Selby?

  I was like, how do you have such a broad range, first of all? And second of all, why would it be so low if you've made a hundred million? And she was like, I don't, I don't really know. And I was kind of blown away by like, you're, you're working so hard, like, oh, you're working a lot and you're like doing all of these things to what? To what end? You know what I mean? Like, are you passionate about the work and that's why you're doing it? Or is it because you wanna make a lot of money? And if you wanna make a lot of money, why do you not even know how much you have?

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  Preach. It to me is personally painful when people who are riding the fame wave, especially in a way that's timed to like how their body looks or whatever, like adult film stars or people who are on OnlyFans or models. When they're not squaring away every penny for a rainy day during their prime, it just like, it's, it's so tough. I just was at another podcast, had some talks with some folks. Um, one young man there was a manager for a few very top tier OnlyFans girls. So I was like, whoa, questions, questions.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  And I was like, how are they investing their money? And he more or less was like,

• 2:04:31Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:31Speaker 01

  Lot of thing. It's like, man, you're 26 years old, you're in your prime, you're making crazy money. How do you wanna live your life at 31? Do you wanna see the live stream numbers be a fraction of what they used to be? Do you wanna see the checks coming in being a fraction of what they used to be and have nothing to show for it? Or do you wanna have 10 million under conservative management and like your finance guy says, you don't ever have to go to work again? Both of those are very realistic and it really hurts me to see people who are making enough money that they can really invest it. Just frivolously spending it away on stuff that like, again, remember my answer to the question of worst and best ways to spend money?

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  So many people just do that cars thing. They get the crazy exotic car and they get another exotic car and then another exotic car. And it's like, geez, you're just burning money away. And it's, it's fun. It's awesome. Drive all exotic cars you want, but like, what's tomorrow gonna look like? My num, one of my number one motivations for making money and overworking myself to do so is I'm never really interested in being poor again. Been really poor, wasn't fun, would not recommend out of 10. And so when people are in a position where they're making a lot of money, I'm just really scared for them when they like can backslide into poverty again. And I, I mean, there's literally like with rappers and stuff and athletes, it happens all the time.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  Like you were like on record labels and covers and you were making crazy hits and you were making millions of dollars. And then like six years later, you live in the hood again. How does that feel? What do you guys think? How does that feel to be like, I used to be in a mansion?

• 2:06:08Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  And now I'm making rent month to month. I would have, I would be beside myself. I wouldn't be able to do it.

• 2:06:15Jack Selby?

  That's why we do what we do. I'm passionate about trying to teach people about, it's not how much you make, it's how much you save.

• 2:06:21Graham Stephan?

  My natural literacy.

• 2:06:22Jack Selby?

  Yep.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  My heart.

• 2:06:23Jack Selby?

  There you go.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  You guys are doing God's work.

• 2:06:25Graham Stephan?

  Thank you.

• 2:06:26Jack Selby?

  Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you guys for watching. If you've made it up until this point, means the world. We would not be here without you. I really appreciate the flexibility, by the way. Like, I literally found out you're in Vegas this morning. You're like, yup, I'm free at five, let's film at six.

• 2:06:38Graham Stephan?

  I was so pumped to do this, man.

• 2:06:40Jack Selby?

  And everything went perfectly. So I'm really grateful for that.

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  I appreciate you guys right back. It was amazing.

• 2:06:44Graham Stephan?

  Thank you. And by the way, for all the channel members, if you wanna see next week's episode, it's already live for you guys. So here's a little preview for you. Thank you so much and until next time.

• 2:06:55Jack Selby?

  I watched Bitcoin fall 50% in a 10 hour period and I was on the couch curled up in a ball and like saying to my now wife, I think our net worth might go to zero today.

• 2:07:04Speaker 06

  Bitcoin is a resilient asset that is really serving as global insurance. And so anytime that there's chaos in the world, there's gonna be people who run to Bitcoin.

• 2:07:10Jack Selby?

  In one sentence, what is your strongest argument for Bitcoin?

• 2:07:14Speaker 06

  They will never, ever stop printing money. There's two assets you need for the future we're headed towards, Bitcoin and AI.

• 2:07:19Graham Stephan?

  Is it too late to buy Bitcoin?

• 2:07:21Speaker 06

  Bitcoin is going to continue to go up for the rest of our lives because the politicians are gonna print money for the rest of our lives.

• 2:07:27Graham Stephan?

  So do you think then meme coins are bad for the overall market of Bitcoin?

• 2:07:33Jack Selby?

  If you were to take one guess at who Satoshi is, who would you say?

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

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