Talking to Strangers, Taking Risks & Making Millions - Scott Galloway

Scott Galloway is a clinical professor of marketing at the New York University Stern School of Business, a public speaker, entrepreneur and an author. Despondency and cynicism are everywhere online. Some of the most popular modern trends are those that tell people to not hope for the best and that things can never get better. Thankfully I don't agree, and neither does Scott. Expect to learn why Scott recommends all men watch the movie Her, the problem with the left’s view on masculinity, what we should be teaching men about how to age gracefully, why we are experiencing a lack of good role models, they keys to networking without being a weirdo, whether you should ban your staff from sleeping with each other, the pillars of masculinity and much more… Sponsors: Get 10% discount on all Gymshark’s products at https://bit.ly/sharkwisdom (use code: MW10) Get $150/£150 discount on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover at https://eightsleep.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get over 37% discount on all products site-wide from MyProtein at https://bit.ly/proteinwisdom (use code: MODERNWISDOM) Extra Stuff: Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ Buy my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom #masculinity #mindset #psychology - 00:00 Intro 01:39 Why Every Young Man Should Watch ‘Her’ 09:17 Do Women Need to Give Men More of a Chance? 14:09 Why Relationships in the Workplace Are Frequent 19:22 Should You Approach Someone in the Gym? 23:18 What Young Men Need to Prioritise 30:59 Is it Bad to Show Weakness to Your Friends? 43:08 Men Are Devoid of Positive Role Models 49:28 Advice to Ageing Men 58:03 Where to Find Scott - Get access to every episode 10 hours before YouTube by subscribing for free on Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - https://chriswillx.com/books/ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic here - https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  Scott Galloway, welcome to the show.

• 0:02Scott Galloway?

  Chris, yours is the only podcast I will do, except anyone who asks me, anyone, anyone. I'm a whore. Let's be honest.

• 0:10Chris Williamson?

  You're the slut of the podcasting world.

• 0:12Scott Galloway?

  I am, but I'm an expensive whore. That's my thinking. It's like.

• 0:16Chris Williamson?

  High class hooker, I think they're technically referred to as.

• 0:19Scott Galloway?

  We all do things for money we don't want to do. And I've always said, I'm a whore, but as I've gotten older and gained some currency, I'm an expensive whore.

• 0:27Chris Williamson?

  You know Peaky Blinders? You seen that?

• 0:29Scott Galloway?

  I do. That guy, that guy is a Oppenheimer.

• 0:33Chris Williamson?

  Killian Murphy. Yeah, yeah. Killian Murphy says, uh, he's turning to Grace that is this prostitute girl, uh, working in his bar. And he says, we're all whores, Grace. We just have different prices and we sell different parts of ourselves.

• 0:49Scott Galloway?

  All of us do things. I'm, I think prostitution should be legalized. I've never understood why it isn't. I think sex trafficking should absolutely be illegal and people should be put in prison. Uh, and I think that's a perfect example of how when something is made illegal, social media supposedly solves the impossible in about 24 hours. And I think we should make a lot of things illegal. But I think people should be able to do what they want with their body. And I think if you look at a lot of relationships, it's kind of, I don't know, a couple, it's the, the shades of gray between that and prostitution are, are, are pretty difficult to, to suss out. God, I'm sure this is a hate crime and we're going to get all sorts of shit.

• 1:30Chris Williamson?

  Well, look, you're from the left, so I'm, I think I'm safe. I've got my leftist card fully front and center today. I remember I heard you say that you think all young men should be required to watch the movie Her and take a class on dating dynamics. Why?

• 1:49Scott Galloway?

  Like, I think that the ability to initiate contact with strangers, go up to a friend and say, hey, do you want to go to a, you know, do you want to go golfing this weekend? Or do you want to hang out, go to a football match this weekend? I'm trying to encourage my boys to talk to strangers. And I think the most rewarding relationship. In life is a romantic and potentially a sexual partnership that results in kids and a family. I do think that that I didn't think it was going to be the most rewarding thing in my life and it ended up being the most rewarding thing in my life. And the reason why I have such an outstanding partner is because I learned early how to endure rejection and how to initiate, even be, I'll use the word aggressive, with strange people. I would

• 2:34Scott Galloway?

  email people I didn't know and ask for a meeting at a venture capital firm. I would, when I was a senior in high school, I wouldn't get invited to parties. You know what I would do? I would show up uninvited. And it was embarrassing for about five minutes and then I went in and no one was going to kick me out and I had a great time. I was always aggressive and I've always been aggressive professionally and personally. And if you want to punch above your weight class, get used to rejection and initiating conversation. And of course, and as you have pointed out eloquently, people claim that somehow this is a bad thing. And then every survey shows that women want men, in most cases, to initiate the contact and express the interest. So I think to teach a young man to go up, to

• 3:16Scott Galloway?

  force himself, when I used to walk into a bar when I was a young man, I said, within 15 seconds, and my dad taught me this, you need to start talking to a strange woman. Within 15 seconds of walking into a bar, if you're there before your friends.

• 3:27Chris Williamson?

  A woman that's a stranger or specifically find a strange woman?

• 3:31Scott Galloway?

  An unusual woman who just seems very, very strange and weird. No, when you walk into a bar, if you're in a strange setting, a social setting, you walk into a party, any room, go up immediately to a stranger, it doesn't necessarily have to be a strange woman, and start talking to them. And I think those skills and that confidence and quite frankly, that ability to reject or endure rejection are a key component of professional success. The difference between people who make good money at work and people who make outrageous money, it's only one thing, their willingness to endure rejection. Because that is a key component of selling. And selling is the difference between being the CFO, the COO, and the CEO. And you might decide, I'm just not up for that. But the reason why the most overcompensated people in every organization relative to their talent are

• 4:16Scott Galloway?

  all one person, one title, and that's salesperson, is they are willing to endure rejection. And if you want to be overcompensated, or you want to romantically Punch above your weight class, then get used to rejection. And if I'm trying to give my boys anything, it's the ability to endure rejection.

• 4:34Chris Williamson?

  It's the same for friends. So many of the people that I've connected with as friends have come about from me not caring about sending a DM. This is why, here's my hot take of the week. Everybody should become a club promoter for at least two months at some point in their life. Because if you've given out wristbands on the street for some dead ass bar or club to try and get people in, hey, guys, where are you going tonight? Right. I know that you're going to the club that's really busy and you know the name of and is highly reliable for a good night. But how about you come to this one that you've never heard of before, down a dark alley, like the online lack of rejection or lack of fear of rejection that you go through from just sending DMs. So many of the good

• 5:16Chris Williamson?

  things that have happened in my life have come about due to random DMs. And the same goes from friends, too. So many of my best friends, we met via the internet and they said, dude, I love this thing that you do. Well, we met at this place and then you have a bit of resonance online, you turn into real world friends, and these are now some of my best friends. So it's business, it's relationships, it's friendships, it's money, it's adventures and opportunities.

• 5:41Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, 100%. And unfortunately, you start to lose that as you get older because your ego grows. When I was young and I was hungrier for money, I used to just constantly ping strangers, send out emails, send out proposals, this is how I can help your firm, or my friend knows you, could we grab coffee? I was really aggressive. And now that I've gotten older and had some success, I've lost some of my, my ego's grown and I'm like, I'm not going to reach out to them. But what you said about friends, with some people who are quote unquote, I reached out to the, I don't think there's anything wrong with this. I reached, I somehow got introduced to the owner of Chelsea. And it was a big,

• 6:23Scott Galloway?

  my, my son is a huge Chelsea fan and it's been such a difficult season for him. I mean, it's just been so hard on him. And last night, the whole household was on eggshells because, you know, they went up 2-1 and he's like, "We're gonna blow it again." And you see this 13-year-old pacing back and forth in front of the TV and we're just freaked out that Tottenham, which is the better club this year, and they won and he jumped up and down and he was so, like, literally dropped to his knees and was so happy. And I put it on video and I text messaged it to this guy who I introduced, I don't know that well, the owner of Chelsea. And he texted me back right away and it's like, "And we should get together." And it's like, I'm not sure my whole life I would have had that confidence. And what you realize

• 7:07Scott Galloway?

  is that people of any stature or standing, it might mean more to people and you should probably make an effort to be more generous to people who don't have that sort of status or power. But what you realize is, everybody wants friendship. Everyone wants to be congratulated. I mean, I gotta think, I was thinking about Taba later, for a billionaire, he has taken so much shit this year. I don't think he can go to Chelsea games because he gets such grief. I mean, cry me a river. But it is never, it is never, I don't think you can be too, kind of, I don't know, wanton or reckless with compliments or reaching out to people. Now, what you talked about, teaching mating dynamics, I think a huge gift for

• 7:47Scott Galloway?

  young men that they need is how to express interest in friendship, interest in potential romantic interest while making that person feel safe. And what a lot of young men, I've been taught, and you've talked a lot about this, is that expressing that sort of interest automatically deems you a predator, or that it's something wrong. And that's just not true. And even in work situations, you have to be more thoughtful about it. You have to tread more lightly. But one in three relationships begin at work. Men have been told, "Any expression of romantic interest in work could get you a trip to HR and potentially out of the company." That any man, potentially who expresses sexual interest or romantic interest to a stranger is a creep.

• 8:31Scott Galloway?

  And none of those are true. None of those are true. And if you talk to most couples, what you find who have been together 20 and 30 years is that at the beginning of the relationship, one of them, usually the man, was more interested than the other. And it took a certain amount of elegant persistence to convince that person and that they should go out with them and then demonstrate excellence, demonstrate kindness, demonstrate generosity. And I worry that young men aren't getting an opportunity to participate in what is the most rewarding thing in life, in my view, and that's develop a family and kids, because they're not being taught how to endure rejection or how to approach people in a random environment while making the other person feel safe.

• 9:16Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I think women also could do with being taught that the old world, they maybe taught, learned from their mothers and older sisters from the 90s and the 00s about, you know, treat him like you don't like him and like you're not interested and why men love bitches. You know, there was this entire genre of books that came about that was create additional mate value in yourself by extending the chase and making him work a little bit harder. But in a post Me Too world, anything close to a no by most men, apart from the predatory ones, which it's not going to stop in any case, anything that verges on a no is a fuck no, get away from me. Anything shy of an absolute yes and

• 9:59Chris Williamson?

  complete openness and receptiveness to a guy is that. And I do wonder whether, I don't know, there's like a reticence that both guys and girls have got now of reaching out to people. And it's so

• 10:11Scott Galloway?

  A hundred percent.

• 10:13Chris Williamson?

  It's so averse to the way that, again, I was a club promoter. The only way that we filled the events for 15 years was by being the person that would continue to send annoying DMs over and over again until someone actually decided to come out. So my threshold for messaging someone is so much lower than it is for pretty much anyone else. And you hit the nail on the head with that thing with the Chelsea owner. No one on the planet is upset and not going to reply to a cool, cute video of a 13 year old boy celebrating that his favorite sports team just won. Like, that's like, that's universally unobjectionable content to send to someone.

• 10:49Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, and even at this age, I'm worried that like, oh, I don't want to be perceived as harassing someone who's more important than me. But it's, um, I do get in my podcast, Office Hours, I have had an increasing number of women dial in and ask for dating advice. And the dating advice I give them is like, you shouldn't lower your standards, but, but try a second coffee to see if in fact, this person does start to slowly meet your standards. Because women naturally have a much finer filter. And unless, you know, there's this data, a lot of times, people weren't interested in the other person at first, and then they got to know them. They found out they

• 11:31Scott Galloway?

  were kind. They found out they were funny. They found out there's something about their smell that they liked. They got, you know, they became attached to them. They loved spending time with them. And the problem in an online dating format is it's sort of like, you know, I make a snap decision and it's over. And that's it. They're off. They're, you know, that's it. It's over. So what I tell men is create more initial opportunities. And for women, my advice is like, if there's nothing there, and you really just know you're not into this person, fine. But if you walk in and say, it's got to be someone at least six feet, who makes at least six figures, just recognize that's 0.6% of the population. And that you may, you may not find the same

• 12:16Scott Galloway?

  volume of potential mates. You may be fishing in a pool. That's not a pool. It's, it's a tiny puddle. And see what, see if there's other ways, you know, if other things develop, give, give a second coffee a chance. But it's, it, I think it's really disappointing, because I think not only are men struggling, and without, women are lonely, but they do a much better job of maintaining relationships without a romantic relationship. They're just better at maintaining life and love and professional success.

• 12:46Scott Galloway?

  When a young man doesn't have the prospect of a romantic and sexual relationship, he doesn't, he doesn't shower. He doesn't work as hard as he should. He doesn't save money for a house. He drinks too much. He gets high too much. I'm making huge generalizations here, but the data bears this out. This stuff is so important. And so we need more third spaces, parks, recreational leagues, more educational opportunities, more church, I dare say, more religious institutions, more parks, you know, the barber shop, more random opportunities, more nonprofits. I'd like to see national service, compulsory national service for everyone that gives people a chance to fall in love. I'm an investor in a bunch of Israeli companies.

• 13:29Scott Galloway?

  I can't get over how many co-founders and husbands and wives met in the military because they had an opportunity to demonstrate excellence to each other in, in, in the pursuit of something bigger than each of them.

• 13:43Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, the coed, the coed spaces where people can be competent and they can show that they have a degree of excellence and ambition. Like competence is sexy, right? It doesn't matter whether you're a guy or a girl and what you're looking for. Someone that is competent at doing a thing. Wow, that's cool. That's hot.

• 14:02Scott Galloway?

  Well, this is, this is the, this is what we don't talk about or doesn't get a lot of press at academic institutions. There is a preponderance of people on the faculty who are married to one another. And typically, typically, oftentimes it was a professor and his or her PhD student, student, or they, they knew each other and they were on the faculty together. There's a lot of inter-office romance. Why? Because if you're the premier thought leader in gap two accounting, you may not be great in a bar setting, but your opportunity to demonstrate excellence to people who find this stuff interesting makes you attractive.

• 14:42Chris Williamson?

  You're a Chad to someone who lives on Excel.

• 14:45Scott Galloway?

  There you go. You're

• 14:46Chris Williamson?

  An Excel chat.

• 14:48Scott Galloway?

  And 99% of these relationships were consensual and really positive things, even when they didn't work out. So I, I, I'm all about, and you know, this is probably setting myself up for disaster. At my companies, I have always allocated a lot of money for social stuff. I want them to meet each other. I want them to be friends. And something I celebrate is when they get married. I've had, I've been to six weddings of people who've met at my companies. And what I tell the senior level men and the senior level women is if you're above a certain seniority in the company, your fly is up unlocked. The power asymmetry here is just too great. The opportunity for abuse is just too great. It's awesome to be a senior level executive

• 15:32Scott Galloway?

  in a company. It means money. It means status. You have other opportunities off campus. So if something happens here, you're just at fault. Let's just say that right here. But other than that, the company policy is the following. Use your common sense.

• 15:47Chris Williamson?

  So when I was running my nightlife business, one of the, the way that it was structured was a couple of owners at the top, couple of senior managers above us, block of maybe about 10 to 15 junior managers, and then a ton of guest listers below them. So each manager had a team of around about 30 people, something like that. And each of these people, it was their job to bring people to the nightclub. Got an event going on on Thursday or Friday or whatever. And they made a commission and then the managers made a commission on the commission and so on and so forth. Kind of like a sales company, like typical sales setup, right? But as you were talking about that power asymmetry there, we're talking about 18, usually 18 to 20 year olds, sometimes like 18 to 22 year olds. And it's young guys

• 16:31Chris Williamson?

  who are living away from home for the first time ever. They're the ones that choose who gets to dance and hostess at the nightclub. They're the ones that choose who gets the preference on shifts. They're the ones who gets to choose who goes into VIP and all the rest of it. So there's power there, even though everyone was 18, 19, 20, there was a power differential. And me and my business partner fined the boys if we found out that they'd had sex with one of our staff. And it was 10 pounds for the first time it happened, 20 pounds for the second time it happened, 40 pounds, 80 pounds, and then 100, 100, 100, 100, 100. We fined them and we told them, we were like, look, if you do this, you are putting Both your own money and the company at risk. There is a risk that's associated with this.

• 17:16Chris Williamson?

  There are five other events companies with just as many hot girls who love partying just as much as you guys do. Go and decimate them from the inside. Go and cause all manner of strife because without a doubt, there was a 50% chance if the manager, one of the managers had sex with one of the staff that worked for us, within a couple of months, they'd leave. Well, like, that was an amazing member of staff. Like, that was a really great guest list or that was a really great hostess or she worked really well on the till or did whatever. And she's gone now because you've broken her heart. Or then the manager, he loses his head because she's now talking to one of the other managers. And then it causes internal strife between the guys. So we, we disincentivized it financially. And the boys just accepted it as par for the course. Uh, so yeah, I think.

• 18:00Scott Galloway?

  I'm just, I'm just shocked that 20 pounds would be, would actually make someone think twice about having sex.

• 18:07Chris Williamson?

  You'd be surprised when you're, when you're in the northeast of the UK, 20 pounds goes an awful long.

• 18:12Scott Galloway?

  Long way. That what I've tell, what, what I've always said, and I've, I mean, it sounds like basic training, but I think the first thing you tell, especially a man in a corporate setting, especially a young man, is that instinctively, men will mistake kindness for sexual interest and women will mistake sexual interest for kindness. And just be cognizant of the fact that because a woman is nice to you does not mean she has any romantic or sexual interest in you. And in a corporate setting, you need to be very careful because correctly or incorrectly, if there's a problem, that most likely HR and the powers that be in society and Twitter are going to find the man culpable.

• 18:57Scott Galloway?

  And, and that's probably right because the man is usually the person who initiates. And men get it wrong more often than women. They just get it wrong. So I'm like, but once you're cognizant of this power dynamic. Once you are, if you tread lightly and you ask someone out to coffee, which isn't that threatening, yeah, okay, use your judgment. You're all grownups. You're all grownups.

• 19:20Chris Williamson?

  There was a, I go to a gym in Austin that is super cool and all of the guys and girls that go there are in like crazy shape and the machines are fantastic and the culture and the atmosphere is amazing. And they put a reel out a few months ago and it was advice for a guy, the sort of guy approaches the camera and is like, I'm going to show you how you should approach girls in the gym. And then it turns around, the camera turns around and there's a group of six girls all stood in a line looking very haughty and they go, just don't flick their hair and walk off. And I was like, oh, am I fucking high here? Like, what is it? This is the exact opposite of what we need. Like, just don't, like, just don't approach like girls in the gym. Hang on a second. If you go to

• 20:05Chris Williamson?

  the gym, especially a gym like that one, which is very specialized and, you know, it's selected for a very like specific type of person. How many other places are there where you're going to find someone who has that particular niche obsession with fitness? And the gym to me seems like the perfect place to approach people.

• 20:23Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, it's, so I'm of two minds about this. I think that, I think some women get approached so much and just want to go to a gym where they just want to work out that I think they can send signals by just putting on headphones, right? What I would tell my boys is if you're on a treadmill next to somebody and you want to try and strike up a conversation, do it. And you might find, you might sense right away that they're just not interested. They're there to work out. They are not looking to meet anybody. And guess what? You're both going to be fine. And what you don't want to do is sit around and stare at somebody and make them uncomfortable. I think that's even worse. So pick up on

• 21:02Scott Galloway?

  visual cues. And if you on the way out, you know, run into them and start a conversation with them, great. And you'll hopefully be able to figure out pretty quickly if they're, if they return your interest. But don't, you know, like, this is, this is what it means to be an adult. And hopefully you have good role models and there's some trial and error here. And that is you, you've said this, the difference between a creep, a story, a story that's a romantic comedy that's told 40 hours, years later is in this great soft lighting. And someone is a creep is the perceived attractiveness of the person who initiates the contact.

• 21:44Scott Galloway?

  And the problem is the person, and you've said this, who initiates the contact doesn't know how you're going to attractive, you're going to perceive them. And what I, what I do respect, and I've seen this with women when I'm out with my young friends and they approach someone and she's clearly not interested. Most women are kind. Most women will be thoughtful and polite and they have to develop their own skills around how to wave off interests that they're not interested in, in a polite and dignified way. Cause most women I find are kind. And also when I've been out with guys and a woman, I have seen more of this recently. Women now approach men at bars. I never, that never happened to me when I was younger, or maybe it was just me, but I've been without a couple of my younger buddies at work and women will actually come up and start talking.

• 22:29Scott Galloway?

  I've never seen that before. I think it's wonderful. And I just think as a guy, just in terms of karma, you are always down to hang out, be nice, buy drinks to any woman who comes up to you. Cause my brother for the universe, you want to encourage that type of behavior. You want to encourage it. It's not enough of it. Hundred percent, hundred percent. But the skills, show me a guy who's good in a random situation at a party or is good meeting strangers, either strange man he's sexually interested in or strange women he's sexually interested in. I'm going to tell you a guy's going to probably make more money than he deserves because that

• 23:09Scott Galloway?

  ability to open, that ability to initiate a relationship is kinda, that's half the battle in a corporate setting.

• 23:16Chris Williamson?

  What else would be on your syllabus for teaching young men what they should focus on in life and prioritize?

• 23:23Scott Galloway?

  Well, you did this early, but I think fitness, just for mental health. Getting used to working out early. My dad was in the Royal Navy and he started me working out when I was like, I don't know, 13 and it just sort of stuck with me. Like I didn't do it a lot till I was 17 or 18, but it just sort of was ingrained in me. I think having a plan, even if that plan changes, always just sort of having a plan. Always be able to say, if someone asks you, what are you, what are you thinking you're going to do the next five or 10 years? You don't have to stick to it, but I'm planning to go to college and then I'm going to get a degree. You know, when I was 17, I thought it was going to be a pediatrician and chemistry just abused me of that notion.

• 24:02Scott Galloway?

  But always have sort of a plan that you can articulate to somebody. I would say, try and, and this is something I didn't want to do, be more in touch with your emotions. And that is be more honest with people. Tell them when you're upset. Reach out to people, ask for help. When a woman upsets you, or a friend upsets you, you know, it bummed me out that you didn't call me back, or you were not nice to me in front of the other guys and I don't understand why. I mean, there's a certain amount of that pecking order and socialization you need to endure growing up. But I wasn't in touch with my emotions. I didn't tell my mom I loved her until I was much older and I wish I'd said that more often. I wish that I had told women and romantic partners when my feelings were hurt or how I

• 24:45Scott Galloway?

  truly felt about them. I was one of those guys that would, was, never wanted to appear weak or vulnerable. So I would never share my emotions. And I think that screwed up a lot of relationships or diminished them. So be much more in touch with your emotions, be much more willing to express your emotions.

• 25:01Chris Williamson?

  Why? What's on the, what's on the other side? What's the positive on the other side of doing that?

• 25:06Scott Galloway?

  Well, there's opportunities to have friendships and relationships. Sometimes, sometimes people are waiting for you to say, I'm really bummed out that maybe you don't want to be my friend, or that you don't like me as much as I like you. And not only that, there's so few people who are willing to say that at a young age. It demonstrates confidence. And I think people find that really attractive. I mean, and if they don't, that's the wrong kind of person. Also, you go into this, this kind of fun house of your emotions and a reality where you don't know what's important to you. You start convincing yourself you don't care, you don't mind, and you never really get informed. My attitude is,

• 25:51Scott Galloway?

  When a movie really moves you, ask yourself, why am I inspired by this? And then, because that'll help inform what interests you. When something really upsets you, really lean into the upset and ask, why is it upsetting me so much? And otherwise, you're just sort of walking around with blinders on. You don't know really what's important to you. You don't know who you want to spend time with. So to not lean into your emotions and register them, one, you give up a lot because you're going to find out later in life, oh, yeah, no, I liked you too, or no, I would have been friends with you, or, yeah, we were interested in hiring you, but you didn't follow up. You weren't persistent, whatever it might be, right? You should have applied a second time. You should have applied to university the second time, whatever it might have been, right?

• 26:33Scott Galloway?

  And also, you just miss on the opportunity to feel closer to people and have some sense of what's important to you, what inspires you, what makes you sad. Where, you know, I don't think I ever told someone until I was well into my 30s that something they did upset me. I had this notion that I'm a big, strong man. I don't get upset at things, you know? Everything deflects off of me. I don't care.

• 26:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I'm a, I've started working with a therapist over the last few months here in Austin, who worked with a friend that's way more, way more fucked up than I'll ever be. So I figured, look, if she can see through his bullshit, she can definitely deal with mine. And there's layers to this. You realize, you know, just even talking about your emotions or being prepared to say them, isn't quite the same as actually feeling them, feeling them fully, you know, having your emotions and your mind rest where your feet are. And there's layers and layers to this that I've realized, especially maybe people that listen to podcasts like mine or yours, who are interested in psychology and human nature and can rationalize or explain away what they're feeling.

• 27:39Chris Williamson?

  Oh, that's the negativity bias, or that's the Abilene paradox, or that's, you know, I understand that this is because of my, it's the bystander effect or some other bullshit, right? Like, they, they've got some mental model that allows them to explain what's going on inside of their, yeah, James Clear talks about something similar and whatever, whatever. And I realized that for a good chunk of people, way more than might like to admit it, that's a protection mechanism. Their ability to rationalize and explain away what's happening inside of their minds gives them an excuse to not have to feel their feelings fully.

• 28:10Scott Galloway?

  I thought of you this last weekend. Did you see what happened with Caleb Williams, the quarterback for USC?

• 28:16Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 28:18Scott Galloway?

  So this kid is probably gonna, I think he's probably gonna be the Heisman Trophy winner, and is probably gonna go number one in the draft. And he's playing against Washington, and he blows it, and they're gonna lose. The guy breaks down and begins sobbing and immediately runs over to the stands and jumps up and embraces his mother, and his mother puts this notebook over his helmet so that the crowd can't see him crying. And his father comes over and consoles him. And I thought, oh, my God, this kid doesn't even realize he has moved masculinity so far forward.

• 28:56Scott Galloway?

  And the ability to give into that sort of emotion and do it publicly, you know, so much of this fucked up sense of what it means to be a man is around bearing your emotions. And when you look at suicide rates and how they're now, it used to be three to one male to female, and it's approaching four to one. One of the key components of that is men do never learn how to express their struggling. And because they're taught from a very early age that real men don't express that sort of upset. So when you see this guy, who's probably the premier quarterback in college football,

• 29:38Scott Galloway?

  this really like big, handsome, ridiculously strong guy in front of national TV, jump up into his mother's arms. I mean, it sends such a good signal to young men that it's okay to be emotional, it's okay to be disappointed. I also think that's such a gift to, I mean, you're not a parent yet. You really, as a parent, all you really want, you want two things, you want your kids to be happy and successful, but you also want to comfort them. Like, any chance you would get as a parent to comfort your child, it's just so rewarding. It's like, okay, I have purpose. And I remember seeing that, literally, the whole nation saw that moment, and I thought, that kid, unknowingly.

• 30:20Scott Galloway?

  Just moved masculinity forward and just reduced the likelihood or increased the likelihood that a young man is going to have an easier time expressing to a family member or non-family member, I am really upset. And that is key to solving, that is key to getting out of a really, really dark place. And I thought, oh, my God, it's such a moving moment. So anyways, Google Caleb Williams and you'll see the video. It's really, it's very raw, it's very, very moving. And I was just, I thought it was, oh, God, I, I think this kid doesn't realize what a positive role model he is.

• 30:59Chris Williamson?

  I love that story. That's awesome. I, a lot of people on the internet, especially guys, will talk about not showing vulnerability in front of a female partner because it's going to lower her perception of you. And, you know, but there absolutely are women out there who will see vulnerability as a weakness. Now, I think if your female partner is unable to see you show bare your emotions without thinking that you're less of a man, I think that's a sufficient red flag in the relationship to be good that you're getting out of it in any case. But when I talked about this a little bit recently, guys took it one step further. And when I said, okay, so let's say that you have a concern about showing emotions to your partner, what about showing emotions to your friends? And there

• 31:44Chris Williamson?

  were a whole bunch of people in the comments that were like, no, no, no, like, even doing that, even doing that is too far. And you go, oh, okay, this is just your way of rationalizing and coping with not wanting to show your feelings. This isn't to do with, you can say it's because of the outcome, the negative outcome that you're going to get in some relationship and she's going to leave you for Chad, who's actually a stoic giga, like giga turbo, like Andrew Tate. But no, it's not. It's just that you don't want to feel your feelings. And I had Chris Bumstead on the show, who just won his fifth Mr. Olympia classic physique title this weekend. And I think he, if he doesn't cry on stage, he's kind of welling up as his, you know, fifth time that he wins, you know, the hottest man

• 32:27Chris Williamson?

  on the planet award, like the most Jacked Greek God Man on the Planet Award. And he told me the story about when he he broke down and cried in his girlfriend's arms six weeks before one of his Olympia competitions. And he told me that because that's actually what happened and that's how he felt. And you're talking about the most hyper masculine looking lifting heavy weights sweating, doing the full thing like he's the he's the sigma male meme. And yet for him, he was fine to do it. So yeah, I think

• 33:02Chris Williamson?

  a lot of what the modern culture of masculinity is doing is kind of repurposing the male denial of emotions into some more rationalized approach of, oh, yeah, but you don't want your friends to see you weak because then they're gonna they're gonna move on and find a different friend. Oh, yeah, you don't want your girlfriend or your wife to see you weak because she's gonna leave you and sleep with the guy next door. It's like, all right, well, so you're just never going to feel your emotions at all? That doesn't seem very adaptive. That doesn't seem like a very good solution.

• 33:33Scott Galloway?

  So I think a lot about this because from the age of 29 to 44, I didn't cry. I forgot how to cry. Like if someone said, in the next week, you gotta you gotta cry once. Or if you cry once, you're gonna get a million dollars. I would have to have, I would have to learn to do it again. I forgot how to cry. I didn't cry when my mother died. I didn't cry when I got divorced. Didn't cry when my businesses failed. Just forgot how to cry. And now I probably well up and downright cry once to twice a week. And it's a real gift to me. And I have noticed, though, I have registered different responses from different parties. I cry on my podcast. If I get, if I start talking, if I get a question from a listener and I start talking about it and I get upset, I will, I will get emotional and I find that people

• 34:17Scott Galloway?

  really respond well because it helps them, puts them in touch with their emotions. That, yeah, I was really upset when I had to put my dog down. I get, I get tremendous positive support from strangers whenever I'm I'm emotional. Amongst my friends, we all, especially at this age, when one of us isn't doing well and shares. I mean, men are just so good at sharing like just how fucking awesome they are all the time. Oh, yeah, I just made a million dollars on this trade or I'm selling my company or. And we put up this Instagram facade, this Instagram meets Arnold Schwarzenegger meets, you know, David Beckham facade to each other or meets Carl Icahn, whatever the. And then when you really get behind it and you find out, oh, I'm really struggling.

• 35:01Scott Galloway?

  You know, I'm, um, my dad's sick and I just had, my business is not doing well and I'm worried about money. Or I have a friend whose child just had a real mental health breakdown. And what I find though is when, especially as men get older, they are really, I find really supportive and receptive to one another. I think women are incredibly receptive to each other's emotions and vulnerabilities.

• 35:30Scott Galloway?

  Across your parents, your parents want to come for you. It's a feature, not a bug for them. They, they want to come for you. I've had mixed reactions from my romantic partners. And that is, and maybe I've chosen the wrong women, I don't know. But oftentimes I feel like when I have expressed vulnerability and emotion and weakness, that they don't like it and are less attracted to me. That they feel like I'm not going to be as, as viable or as robust a protector and provider when I am depressed and down. And that if I talk about it, there's some lip service to how are you doing?

• 36:12Scott Galloway?

  But at the end of the day, they don't have, at least, and this might be my flaw. They don't have a lot of patience for weak men. And I sense this is weakness.

• 36:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. I wonder how much of that is a selection effect for the kind of women that you're going for, the kind of place that you position yourself in. Let me give you one of my spiciest new ideas. I've got this idea of surplus mate value, which is when you have a relationship in which there is a disparity in mate value between the man and the woman, you can basically look at that disparity, kind of like a bank account that you can withdraw from. So for want of a better word, the man can mistreat the woman, like not reply to texts or come home late or, you know, like break promises or do whatever. And the girl will stick about because there is this disparity. Now, a girl that's healthy with a good sense of self-esteem may not do that regardless of how much.

• 37:05Chris Williamson?

  Disparity mate value there is, but as a good example, Chris Bumstead, this dude, his wife's like a 10. She's a fitness model and super smart and like was a doctor and stuff as well, but he's like number one in the world. Like it's impossible to be like as have as high mate value as he does. So one of the things that actually came out of the comments was, well, of course, Chris Bumstead can cry in his girlfriend's arms. Look at who he is. It's like the hottest thing on the planet. Like, of course, he can do that. Brad Pitt, of course, he can cry in his girlfriend's arms. He's Brad Pitt. So this idea of surplus mate value, I think is interesting. But another one is if you are going after girls and women who are

• 37:47Chris Williamson?

  looking for that hardcore protector provider, and you then start to crack that facade a little bit, or crack the veneer, uh, yeah, maybe they are going to respond to that in a, in a slightly interesting way.

• 38:03Scott Galloway?

  I just, it's what I've seen. I look at, um, you know, my dad, I just like the moment my dad lost his job and he kind of deserved this because he was never really engaged or showed up for his marriages. But, um, I generally found, I'm choosing my words carefully because this sounds really judgmental. I generally found, and maybe it was the kind of, my dad's been married and divorced four times, but the moment my dad stopped being a great provider, the, the, the women were out. And I think it's because they were, like you said, they were getting so little on every other dimension, that if he wasn't at least going to be at a minimum, a bare minimum, be a good provider, like when he got fired and when he was 52 and couldn't get another job

• 38:47Scott Galloway?

  within six months, she was gone.

• 38:49Chris Williamson?

  Yep.

• 38:50Scott Galloway?

  And, and quite frankly, he kind of had it coming because what you're basically saying is you got to bring something to the table, right? And, but it's still, I think we have a tendency to sort of, what's the term, bag of ants, to assume that all men. Are naturally have a predisposition to type being the bad guy and all women are these incredibly high character, good people. And the reality is, and I think there's statistics that show this on a balanced scorecard, that there's mostly, most women are really good people, most men are really good people. But it's not like, it's not like men, women aren't, you know, don't have their own needs and have a scorecard out in terms of when they exit a relationship. And unfortunately,

• 39:33Scott Galloway?

  society has stigmatized mental health to the point that there's so little of it still. I think it's been de-stigmatized across every demographic, except straight men. I think if straight men express a certain level of mental health vulnerability, they're not going to be CEO of this company. I mean, I just, I've seen it. I've been on boards. A male CEO who takes a break and if he were to say, I'm, I'm, I'm struggling with my mental health, that guy's not going to be CEO. And maybe that's wrong.

• 40:09Chris Williamson?

  It's the male equivalent of being early 30s, engaged, and as yet childless as a woman, when you're going for the job interview and the boss is like, I mean, she's going to be, she's going to be here for 18 months and then she's going to be full of children.

• 40:24Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, we're going to lose her. Yeah, there's, I mean, everyone has to deal, you're right, everyone has to deal with their stereotypes in the workplace and how it sets them back. But again, it just results in, I don't know, results in bad behaviors that makes it, I mean, there's definitely something around, all right, and I don't know if we should be teaching it at schools, but we're getting to the point now where, where, you know, mental health is becoming such a big issue for men as it relates to suicide. I mean, what we're finding is essentially is that while men are physically stronger, women are emotionally and mentally stronger. I mean, that's if you were to distill it down. And so I think, I don't want to call it additional focus,

• 41:09Scott Galloway?

  but at least more focus on men's mental health. Is so critical to a healthy society. There's this really moving ad on mental health in the UK where it's two guys, two friends, they look like in their 50s or 60s, and it shows them at different football matches. And one guy's really enthusiastic and happy all the time, and the other guy's just much more sedate and kind of calm and a little, you know, a little kind of, I don't know, just sort of melancholy. And then it shows up and it says, it says, you know, mental health or struggles aren't always what they appear to be. And then it shows a game where the guy, one guy shows up and puts his friend's cap down in a seat, and it's clear, you know, his friend's gone. And it was the guy who was really effusive

• 41:54Scott Galloway?

  and happy. And the whole point is, unless you're willing to open up about what's really going on with you, and unless you invite your friends to open up about what's really going on with them, you just don't know. And they might be the guy rooting and that seems really happy. You don't know. And so I don't, I don't know the approach, I don't know the mechanisms, but this, every year, the ratio of people committing suicide goes up for men. It's now, it's now going to four to one.

• 42:24Chris Williamson?

  I got this from Rob Henderson's blog. Among 15 to 24 year olds, 80% of the suicides are male.

• 42:36Scott Galloway?

  A boy who is sexually molested and a girl who is sexually molested, uh, later in life, and by the way, they're both equally heinous crimes. No, no, no one is a lesser crime against humanity. The boy is 10 times more likely to kill himself later in life. And again, that's not in any way to say one crime is, is less hideous than the other. But we're just finding out, and we never thought this, boys are just emotionally and mentally weaker.

• 43:06Chris Williamson?

  I heard you say a really interesting take, which was the overcompensation and the kind of

• 43:17Chris Williamson?

  Extreme aversion that every single person has to pedophilia, to an older man spending time with a younger boy that isn't his son or some member of his family, has created a massive dearth of role models of men that will take young boys under their wing. You know, even now, for me, as a guy who's got an audience of, you know, many of whom are in their teenage years and stuff like that, even if I was to think about like, fucking even sending a message to somebody like that, there's something in me that it triggers almost like an allergic response, that I'm so averse to that. That dynamic

• 43:59Chris Williamson?

  has been given such a very particular type of brand, which is older men, younger boys should not be interacting really unless you're the caregiver, because so many of the stories that reach the press are about people that have taken advantage of young boys in that way, has left an awful lot of potentially super valuable, caring, nurturing relationships just left by the wayside. And when I heard you say that, I thought, I thought it was a very interesting idea.

• 44:32Scott Galloway?

  I think this is a huge problem because we know we can diagnose when the single point of failure for when men come off the rails, and that is they lose a male role model. And I was talking to Rick Wilson, the political strategist of the Lincoln Project, and he got emotional. I was on his podcast, The Enemies List, and he talked about his father was in a terrible car accident and was in a coma for two years. And his father's business partners, neighbors, all these men stepped in, taught him how to fly, took him to games. And he said, it kind of to save me, kind of kept me on track. And so. When you're dealing with a society where we have the second most single parent

• 45:16Scott Galloway?

  family homes, and when we say single parent family homes, we mean a household led by a mother, you know, you know, the same data, the girls have the same outcomes, college, depression, you know, same income, boys have dramatically worse outcomes when they lose a mineral model. So the question is, all right, we could fill that void with other men that aren't necessarily biologically rated related to the boy. But here's the problem. People suspect any man that wants to be involved in a younger man's life. I mean, the Catholic Church and Michael Jackson have fucked it up for all of us. When I was on Bill Maher, I said, if we, if we want better men, we need to be better men. We need to get involved. We need to seek out and find boys and young men who are struggling and need some help

• 46:00Scott Galloway?

  because they're everywhere. They're literally everywhere. Your nanny's kid, my nanny's kid is sticking at home, doesn't want to do, doesn't know whether to join the Navy, is, is gambling on crypto, like needs a small amount of advice, right? They're everywhere. My friend's son, who will not listen to his father and is making bad decisions, but will listen to his father's friends. You've pointed this out, right? The father's friends, the family's friends can have more impact than the actual parents because you have a healthy gag reflex to what your parents say.

• 46:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, your dad sucks, but Scott, Scott's cool. He plays guitar.

• 46:35Scott Galloway?

  That's right. He has a podcast.

• 46:37Chris Williamson?

  He lets us play on PS4 until three in the morning.

• 46:40Scott Galloway?

  He's a podcast. And the same is true of my friends, my, or my sons. My sons are now having a healthy gag reflex to everything I say, but they find a lot of my friends really interesting. And my friends will say the exact same thing and they'll listen and nod their head. It, to get involved in a young man's life is so rewarding. There's this wonderful movie, I think it's Wes Anderson, you know, actually one of Tom Cruise's best films. Called Magnolia and the guy, there's a bartender in it and he says, I have love to give, I just don't know where to put it. And I think there are so many men, men your age, that feel fraternal love, would really feel like they could help a young man or a boy in his life. When I, I stayed in touch, I made really good friends with my stockbroker.

• 47:24Scott Galloway?

  When I was 13, my mom's boyfriend, who stayed involved in my life after they broke up, gave me 200 bucks. And I marched into Westwood Village, I went into Dean Witter and I met this broker, this 30 something year old broker named Cy Sero. And we bought 16, gave me a lesson in the markets, we bought 16 shares of Columbia Pictures. And every day for two years, no joke, at Emerson Jr. High, I'd go to the phone booth, I'd put in two dimes and I'd call Cy and he'd spend 10 minutes on the phone talking about my stock that day. Close encounters of the third kind is a hit. So the stock was up a dollar. Casey's shadow was a bomb. It's down. And he gave me a lesson in the markets. And he was really nice and like a good man. My camp counselor taught me how to program. He stayed in touch

• 48:07Scott Galloway?

  with me and taught me how to program. I had all these random men in my life. None of them ever in any way did anything inappropriate. Also, we categorize, we stereotype gay men who may want to get involved in a young man's life. Pedophilia does not over index amongst gay, gay men any more than it does amongst straight men. Granted, should a mother or parents be thoughtful about who's getting involved in their son's life? Yes. But the vast majority of men, the vast majority of men who want to get involved in a young man's life, do it for the right reasons. And it's hugely important. And when I was on Bill Maher, I said, we need to get involved in men's lives. And Bill Maher immediately

• 48:50Scott Galloway?

  said, well, you just said, he said, no way. If I got involved in a 15 year old boy's life, they'd start saying I was a pervert. And that is, therein lies the problem. There is so much fraternal and paternal love out there from men who would like to find a young man or a boy to help out. It's hugely rewarding for them. It's profoundly meaningful for the boy. And people are afraid of it and look askew at it. And it's gotta stop. It's gotta stop. The majority, there are so many good men out there that have love to give, but just don't know where to put it.

• 49:27Chris Williamson?

  Before we got started, you were telling me about some lesion or limb that you had lopped off because

• 49:34Scott Galloway?

  Because I'm old.

• 49:35Chris Williamson?

  You're aging and parts of you, parts of you break. I've been thinking about this for a while. Um, you know, we talk a good bit between us about the plight of young men and them finding their place in the world and all of the rest of it. But there's an interesting like period of life, at least that I'm in at the moment, which is starting to realize that I'm, I've probably passed the peak of how fit that I'm going to be, how physically attractive that I'm going to be. Now, I can complement that with status and wisdom and grace and confidence and poison, all of the rest of the stuff. But this is such a weird thing to talk about aging gracefully as a man, not just in the way that you look, but

• 50:20Chris Williamson?

  in the way that you think about yourself, you know, not having the same level of energy that you may be used to and all the rest of it. And with diet and training and things, you can extend it. But when you get to whatever 35, 40, it is a, you sort of hit this top of a hill and then you start to roll down the other side. And you're like, well, it's like the story of the first time that your son beats you at basketball. You realize that you've kind of passed the crown on a little bit. What do you say to young, to guys who are in their 30s and 40s and realizing that age is no longer just a number, but actually a thermodynamic of their life?

• 51:00Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, we feel your pain. So three and a half billion women. Um, I mean, what you just described, uh, women feel this worse than men. And because reality is, how old are you, Chris?

• 51:10Chris Williamson?

  Thirty-five.

• 51:11Scott Galloway?

  Okay. So this is the bottom line. In terms of the romantic or sexual marketplace, your currency is going to continue to go up because you're going to get wealthier over the next 10 years. And unfortunately, unfortunately, women are disproportionately valued on their physical appearance in terms of sexual currency. And men, unfortunately or fortunately, are disproportionately valued on their economic strength and influence. And yours is going to increase. So, you know, in Sex and the City, they called it the power flip. And that is Your currency in the marketplace is probably going to increase over the next 15 years. In terms of your own physicality, I mean, you work out a ton. I mean, you're

• 51:53Scott Galloway?

  probably not going to feel it. I felt it at 47, when I really felt the slowdown, like, I just couldn't. I was used to be able to row, you know, 2,000 meters and whatever it was, seven and a half minutes. And no matter how hard I trained, I just couldn't any longer. You know, there's just certain things that just start to go away and your body starts to, starts to break down. And then what's weird is the perception of, I used to be the youngest person in every room. I'd walked in, I was, I got, I had a lot of success early.

• 52:23Chris Williamson?

  Wonder kid.

• 52:24Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, I was always the youngest person in the room. I'm, oh, that's the young guy. That's, he's the, he's a young entrepreneur. And then one day I walked in and I was the oldest. And I felt like I was never the same age. Yeah, but in terms of physically, a guy like you, and this is why you really want to establish really strong, I mean, you really, I just, I, I, it goes back to that advice for young men, you got to establish physical fitness habits and nutrition habits and sleep hygiene, because if you aren't, and every guy that's 35 should be able to walk into any room and know if shit got real, they could kill and eat everybody or outrun them, one or the other. Because if you don't

• 53:05Scott Galloway?

  have it by the time you're 35 or 40, if you're not strong, or fast, or agile by the time you're 35 or 40, oh my God, by the time you're 50, you're just going to be a fucking hot mess. And you're not only gonna, you may live as long, but the quality of your life from 50 to 80 are just going to be substantially worse. So I don't, I don't buy, you're, you're going to be fine until you're 50. What happens at 50 is, is you get these kind of constant reminders that life is finite and you can't stop time. And that's, that's kind of devastating and also, uh, or scary, I should say, not devastating. And also supposedly because for 98% of our time on this planet, we didn't live much past 35

• 53:49Scott Galloway?

  or 40, our brain can't, literally can't process how we look. So when I see myself in the mirror, it's devastatingly strange to me. It's like, it's horrifying.

• 53:58Chris Williamson?

  The uncanny valley of yourself.

• 53:59Scott Galloway?

  Yeah. You're like, okay, what is that alien being that shouldn't, should have died 15 years ago from a, from a bone cut, hunting a mammoth or something. But it's aging is, I'm fascinated by it. It does, uh, as you know, i- the physical part of it is hard. But those habits you said in your twenties and thirties, good or bad, will carry you or not into your forties and fifties. But there's just no getting around it. Men have it so much better than women. Because when a woman hits her forties and fifties, it just gets, uh,

• 54:36Scott Galloway?

  we can maintain our, our, our romantic or sexual currency. It is much harder for a woman. Society, I, I find that society in terms of the marketplace for mating is really hard on young men. Uh, like guy, guys in their twenties, it's just hard to get arrested because the, the women, the most attractive women in their twenties, generally speaking, are usually dating up age-wise. They want men that are more emotionally and economically viable. So a guy in his twenties, twenties, just has a really hard time, wants to be in a relationship. I remember thinking in my twenties, I'd be such a great boyfriend and I just couldn't get arrested, just couldn't get arrested. And then I think the world becomes, uh, increasingly

• 55:19Scott Galloway?

  fair to them in their thirties and then disproportionately advantaged to them in their forties. And the exact opposite is true of women.

• 55:26Chris Williamson?

  Well, this is why the, the discourse online is dominated by people in their twenties, right? And that means that at the moment, the mating market is very much wobbitied young men. Men are falling behind. Twice as many men are single than women. This is how many men haven't had sex and can't get a swipe on Tinder and so on and so forth. But I think you're right. I think that the scales run about balance in your 30s and then they pivot back in your 40s. And there's a, you know, in my, in all guys more juvenile moments, they, there is a, a very bitter kind of satisfaction that the women who maybe denied you when you were 22 are potentially going to be chasing after you when you're

• 56:10Chris Williamson?

  42. And it's a incredibly immature mindset, but it's definitely one that I see on the internet.

• 56:16Scott Galloway?

  For all of the struggles that young men are having in mating as younger men, the fear is that they never develop those skills and they end up alone their whole lives and that that lack of a romantic relationship leads to economic insecurity, depression, and they're just unviable mates the rest of their lives. They never dig out of that hole. But I've always said, New York is the bobsled of a capitalist society. And it kind of indicates where the whole world is going. And the reality is, New York is optimized for two types of people, for 40 something successful men and 20, 20 something attractive women. And it's a, it's a fucking Disneyland for both those groups. And for everybody else, it's a soul crushing experience. Be a nice guy who's got his act together in your 20s or 30s,

• 57:01Scott Galloway?

  a good person, but you're not making bank. You can't get arrested. Be an interesting woman, attractive, single in her late 30s or early 40s in New York. That's not a good place to be either. And I feel like the world is becoming more like New York and less than less. And what we need is more places and opportunities for men and women to really get to know each other and spend time with each other such that they can again sort of fall in love instead of this kind of like swipe left or swipe right society or this consumptive culture. But yeah, you're, Chris, I don't, you're going to be, you're going to be just fine.

• 57:39Chris Williamson?

  I appreciate that as my non-pedophilic elderly advisor here.

• 57:46Scott Galloway?

  Thanks for that. Thanks for that. I'll get a T-shirt that says that.

• 57:50Chris Williamson?

  That could be your epigraph. One of my friends, Alex Hormozi, has masculinity in six words. Do no harm, take no shit. And I think that that's a nice summary. Dude, I appreciate the hell out of you. Thank you for all of the support and continuing to shill my memes on CNN or wherever else it is that you go, Bill Maher. What's next? You've got two books next year, one book at least next year?

• 58:14Scott Galloway?

  I got a book coming out on financial literacy called The Algebra of Wealth. I'm starting to think about writing a book on masculinity, although everyone I run into is writing a book on masculinity or trying to redefine it. And, you know, just doing the same thing. Got my podcast, got my, you know, I got my sons for another five years, so I'm trying to lean into that a bunch. We just went to the Brentford man, was it Brentford? Yeah, Brent, I'm sorry, Brentford, West Ham game on Saturday. We're going to Arsenal Sevilla tomorrow night. So I'm just really enjoying the shit out of that.

• 58:44Chris Williamson?

  Look at you being completely anglicized from your.

• 58:48Scott Galloway?

  Totally. I'm drinking tea right now. Look at this. I'm drinking tea.

• 58:52Chris Williamson?

  It's pretty milky. That's kind of, that would be, that would be considered a builder's brew in certain areas of the UK, but you are down south, so I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you that. I'm a Rangers, I'm a Texas Rangers fan. They won the World Series. So we've swapped nationalities in terms of our sporting desires. Scott Galloway, ladies and gentlemen. Scott, I appreciate you. I can't wait to have you back on to talk about financial literacy and whatever the hell else you write next.

• 59:18Scott Galloway?

  Thanks, Chris. Congrats on your success.