Ep. 809: The 209 - A Backyard Hunt For An Iowa Giant

Steven Rinella https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en talks with Iowa Auditor of State Rob Sand https://www.instagram.com/robsandia/?hl=en. Topics discussed: Iowa's big-buck-killing Auditor of State and what an Auditor actually does https://www.auditor.iowa.gov/about-us; 406 Boneworks https://www.instagram.com/406.boneworks/?hl=en; running for Iowa Governor https://robsand.com/; public servant vs. politician; catching chickens; the Des Moines Urban Buck Program https://www.instagram.com/reel/DN3V9XBWvCd/?hl=en; the story of The 209*; donating wild game to food banks; and more. *The final official score has been recorded as 206 inches. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:32Steven Rinella?

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• 1:16Steven Rinella?

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• 2:18Steven Rinella?

  This is the Meat Eater Podcast, coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case underwearless.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast.

• 2:28Steven Rinella?

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• 2:53Steven Rinella?

  All right, everybody. Joined today by someone that Crin and I have been texting back and forth about having on for, it might be six years.

• 3:00Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:01Steven Rinella?

  Crazy. Crin was like five.

• 3:03Speaker 05

  Because I can't do math. I think it's six. December 19th, that article.

• 3:08Steven Rinella?

  No, no, I meant, I was making a joke about, it was so long, you were five years old.

• 3:12Speaker 05

  Oh, yes, yes, I was.

• 3:13Steven Rinella?

  Since she was a little gal, a little girl, we've been texting back and forth about having on Rob Sand from Iowa. And what, what brought this up? People text you articles all the time. And I, I didn't know it was that many years ago. We get an article, years ago, headline, New York Times article, someone sends us this article. The headline, "The Bow Hunting Influencer of Iowa Democrats." Rob did not write these headlines. You did not, he didn't write these articles. A line from, so then the, I can't, I studied journalism a little teeny bit. What do you call the?

• 3:49Speaker 05

  By it, not by it.

• 3:50Steven Rinella?

  The headline, and then he got the like lead. Lead, L-E-D-E, right? Or is it?

• 3:57Speaker 05

  It's like the sub.

• 3:58Steven Rinella?

  And there's the nut graph in there somewhere. Yeah. Is it the lead? The lead. "Rob Sand Figured Out How to Win Statewide Office as a Democrat in Iowa, and Now the Presidential Contenders Are Seeking His Counsel."

• 4:12Steven Rinella?

  Yep. It goes on. Mr. Sands fondness for hunting. See, this is really a story about hunting. Mr. Sands fondness for hunting cultivated during his childhood years in rural Iowa, but also conveniently appealing to the state's more conservative constituents. Helps explain why he was the only non incumbent Democrat to win statewide here in 2018. All thanks to hunting. Uh, then the telegraph. Here's another headline Rob didn't write. He's gonna blush. Uh oh. The gun toting Christian who could help Democrats win over Trump voters. Rising star of party is spooking Republicans in ruby red state of Iowa. A sentence from that article goes, Rob Sand.

• 4:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:57Steven Rinella?

  Is a gun toting Christian from rural Iowa who goes deer hunting. Of all things that I'm mad, I'm editor, I'm adding that of all things. Who goes deer hunting, drives a white Ford F-150 pickup and opens speeches by quoting the Bible. Another article, Wall Street Journal. Meet the Democrat who Republicans fear in red state America. Here's a, here's a sentence from the article. Rob Sand could almost pass for a Republican. He frequently quotes the Bible, owns two Sig Sauer handguns, goes deer hunting each fall and asks audiences to sing a few verses of America the Beautiful at the start of each campaign event. So these articles, they, they build and build and build.

• 5:42Steven Rinella?

  And then we're like, man, I have this guy and talk to him. Uh, but most of them are gonna talk about a big old buck he killed.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, that'll be more fun.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  My auditing head and all of these sentences are like, not quite true, not quite true. I now drive a silver F-150.

• 5:58Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so little minor differences.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, the, the white one hit like 170 and the cam phasers were going out. And with all the body damage that was on it, it made more sense to buy a new one.

• 6:07Steven Rinella?

  Got it. But there's a quote. The only thing worse than being written about. It's not being written about.

• 6:15Speaker 04

  But you could switch. In my, in my business, that's probably true.

• 6:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you could switch it, you know, you could switch it. Um, oh, also I forgot to mention he's, uh, he's running for governor. In Iowa, there's that. He's running for governor in Iowa, Iowa. So we're gonna talk about that. But first we have to have our, our entrepreneur spotlight. Back to uh Brooklyn Stevens, right?

• 6:37Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 6:37Steven Rinella?

  Brooklyn Stevens. This is your third time you've been on the show?

• 6:40Speaker 06

  Believe so.

• 6:40Steven Rinella?

  Okay, cuz she's trying to build her business. I love it.

• 6:43Speaker 06

  I am.

• 6:43Steven Rinella?

  406 Bone Works. So we have her on now and then to check in with her.

• 6:47Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 6:48Steven Rinella?

  Harvest was down in Montana this year cuz it was an exceptionally warm fall.

• 6:52Speaker 06

  It was.

• 6:52Steven Rinella?

  Not much snow.

• 6:53Speaker 06

  Nope.

• 6:54Steven Rinella?

  Hot.

• 6:56Speaker 06

  Very hot. I-

• 6:57Steven Rinella?

  And she saw it reflected in how many skulls came into 406 Bone Works.

• 7:01Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 7:02Steven Rinella?

  That's her leading theory. Tell us about that.

• 7:05Speaker 06

  I, yeah, I mean, I, last year I probably did close to 250 skulls.

• 7:12Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  From January to end of December. And that was not counting that it would've been this January, like, the, the trickle-in of that season's skulls.

• 7:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 7:27Speaker 06

  Which was probably another 20 or so.

• 7:30Steven Rinella?

  Got it, got it.

• 7:31Speaker 06

  This year, I don't even know if I'll get close to 200. Um-

• 7:36Steven Rinella?

  This cannot stand.

• 7:37Speaker 06

  Yep. And last year-

• 7:39Steven Rinella?

  Flood you, they need to flood 406 Bone Works with skulls.

• 7:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, I-

• 7:43Steven Rinella?

  I don't care if you gotta ship it from another country.

• 7:46Speaker 06

  Yep. Yeah, I, we bought specifically for, to hold all of my heads, a shipping container.

• 7:52Steven Rinella?

  Oh, wow. Oh, you did?

• 7:53Speaker 06

  Specifically, yep.

• 7:54Steven Rinella?

  You own your own shipping container now?

• 7:56Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's like, it's like a smaller one.

• 7:59Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 7:59Speaker 06

  But it, it's still a shipping container.

• 8:01Steven Rinella?

  So you've got capital expenditures into your business.

• 8:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:04Steven Rinella?

  That's deductible. No. Definitely. Uh, and you're thinking about, so traditionally, the skull, you've done a bunch of skulls for me now. You must've probably done a half dozen or more.

• 8:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:15Steven Rinella?

  You know?

• 8:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:16Steven Rinella?

  All turned out beautifully. Zero complaints.

• 8:18Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 8:19Steven Rinella?

  Beautiful work. Um, but you're branching into, you're bran, you're gonna branch into the Beatle stuff. And some other Hyde, Hyde stuff. So tell, tell folks about what you're, tell folks about your sort of, uh, I don't know what you call it in business lingo. Your verticals. No, you know, I'm getting at.

• 8:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, so the Beatles I got specifically for, um-

• 8:43Speaker 06

  Like the smaller skulls, cause it's it's hard to like boil them. I would just put them in a crock pot and slow cook them, but.

• 8:50Steven Rinella?

  Oh, oh.

• 8:51Speaker 06

  Like it, I just was not a fan. And so I just got the beetles and then the way I whiten things now, I can still. It degreases at the same time. So I can still do it with the smaller skulls and it just makes it easier.

• 9:05Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 9:06Speaker 06

  That and I'll sell the smaller skulls too. Like if I get, my buddies are big trappers and so if if they don't want their skulls, like they'll just give them to me to.

• 9:15Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 9:16Speaker 06

  Feed them and I'll just sell them and and I'll pay them for the score or whatever they want.

• 9:22Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 06

  And then, yeah, I I did just get in to tanning. I I was dabbling in it before, but I just opened for public. So I can do really anything.

• 9:34Steven Rinella?

  So someone got, say, let's say someone was out and they got a coyote.

• 9:37Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 9:37Steven Rinella?

  And they wanted to have it done as a hanging decoration, or they wanted to save it up to get something made out of it. They could bring you, you would skin it, flash it, stretch it, get it to the tannery, all that kind of stuff.

• 9:51Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 9:52Steven Rinella?

  And return to them a finished product.

• 9:53Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 9:54Steven Rinella?

  Excellent, excellent.

• 9:55Speaker 06

  Yeah. And then I just now starting to get into shoulder mounts. I did my first one last last summer. Still a lot of I things I need to work on, but it turned out great for.

• 10:07Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it did?

• 10:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, I I think so. And I got lots of good feedback on it.

• 10:11Steven Rinella?

  Oh, well, next time you come in, you should bring in a shoulder mount. That's pretty exciting. So you're you're on the path like John Hayes better watch out.

• 10:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, I I've talked to him quite a bit and he's.

• 10:21Steven Rinella?

  You better watch his ass. He's gonna start having to steer you wrong. He's gonna start giving you, he Hayes is gonna start giving you bad advice.

• 10:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:28Steven Rinella?

  He's gonna, he sees you coming in the rearview mirror and he's gonna start giving you bad advice.

• 10:32Speaker 06

  Right, yep.

• 10:34Steven Rinella?

  He might not even be around anymore. I spoke to him this morning. He was driving thirty miles an hour. Oh, he he was driving thirty miles an hour in a whiteout.

• 10:43Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 10:43Steven Rinella?

  Behind a truck.

• 10:45Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 10:45Steven Rinella?

  We talked about what I would say if he doesn't make it. I was gonna say with John, it was all about the animals. That's what I was gonna say at his memorial service. Now it's be like, you know, the dead ones.

• 10:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 10:55Steven Rinella?

  It was all about the.

• 10:57Speaker 06

  Sounds fair.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  Just remember the pupil should never outshine the master. That's what they say.

• 11:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  He'll stay happy as long as you keep telling him, I'm learning so much from you.

• 11:07Steven Rinella?

  That's, yeah, do that. If he tells you a hot tip, don't be like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, don't tell, don't tell him, oh, I already knew that. Anything he says, oh, thank you.

• 11:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, the pupil should never outshine the master.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  Or if you're a terrible bullshitter, just at least interesting, you know?

• 11:26Speaker 06

  Keep it in mind.

• 11:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Never call him and give him a tip.

• 11:31Steven Rinella?

  Cause then, you know what I'm saying? Then he might sabotage, you know what I mean? Cause he's, he's gotta watch out.

• 11:36Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 11:37Steven Rinella?

  He's the old guard. You're the new guard.

• 11:38Speaker 06

  Right. Yep.

• 11:40Steven Rinella?

  Um, all right, well, what, so tell people how to get ahold of you, to bring in the skulls.

• 11:46Speaker 06

  Uh, I have a flyer at the Meat Eater Flagship Store in downtown Bozeman. My phone number information's all on that. Or my Instagram is just four oh six dot bone works. Message me on there. My Gmail is on there. Or if you have my number, you can always just shoot me a text, whatever. Um, that's the best way. I don't look at my email very much, but you can get me, get ahold of me there.

• 12:10Steven Rinella?

  If someone was down on Main Street, cause, cause you work at the, you do work at the Meat Eater Store on Main Street.

• 12:15Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 12:16Steven Rinella?

  Someone could just drop one off there, huh?

• 12:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 12:18Steven Rinella?

  Or is that not legal?

• 12:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, I have a with Alec.

• 12:21Steven Rinella?

  He knows what, he knows what's up.

• 12:23Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 12:23Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 12:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 12:24Steven Rinella?

  Now, tell me the honest answer. Like it doesn't, it's not, the honest answer isn't gonna bother me. This is the last question. Would you rather be home cleaning skulls or rather be working at the store? Just tell me this flat out honest answer.

• 12:35Speaker 06

  Be home, cleaning them.

• 12:37Steven Rinella?

  Cleaning skulls.

• 12:37Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 12:37Steven Rinella?

  Okay, you're, you're, you're inspired.

• 12:39Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 12:40Steven Rinella?

  You're inspired.

• 12:40Speaker 04

  That's awesome.

• 12:41Steven Rinella?

  All right. Well, good luck.

• 12:43Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 12:44Steven Rinella?

  Four oh six Bone Works. Give the phone number.

• 12:47Speaker 06

  It's gonna be four oh six, four oh four, oh eight, four eight.

• 12:52Steven Rinella?

  I got a second question.

• 12:53Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 12:54Steven Rinella?

  Or a second last question. Do you prefer people to bring you skulls that are rotten and full of maggots? Or, or fresh and frozen?

• 13:03Speaker 06

  Neither.

• 13:04Steven Rinella?

  Oh, really? Tell us, okay, end with this, end with this. The perfect customer brings a skull in what form?

• 13:13Speaker 06

  Killed it that morning, dropped it off that night, not skinned, just leave it to me.

• 13:20Steven Rinella?

  Not skinned?

• 13:21Speaker 06

  Yep. I don't, it's something about the skin, I think, sucking in all that moisture. And so I think if you just leave it on there and then I can do it, I'll get it done either the same day or the day after.

• 13:34Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 13:35Speaker 06

  And I, I, I don't know what it is, but it's just like the freshness, it really does make skulls come out whiter and not as.

• 13:42Steven Rinella?

  So they're not doing you a favor when they skin it?

• 13:46Speaker 06

  I mean, sort of, I'm gonna, I now I charge to skin them, but.

• 13:50Steven Rinella?

  That's why.

• 13:51Speaker 06

  That's what I really like to just.

• 13:52Steven Rinella?

  Hey, tell you about that?

• 13:53Speaker 04

  But she's also inviting her customers to do less work.

• 13:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 05

  Right.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  Just bring it to me, I'll do it, that's smart business.

• 14:00Steven Rinella?

  All right.

• 14:00Speaker 05

  Gosh.

• 14:01Steven Rinella?

  All right, four oh six bone works, give the phone number again?

• 14:04Speaker 06

  Four oh six, four oh four, oh eight, four eight.

• 14:07Steven Rinella?

  Okay, Brooke, Brooklyn?

• 14:09Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 14:10Steven Rinella?

  Which one do you like the most? You're, I know on your contact it says Brooke, but I know you have Brooklyn. Am I doing, am I wrong when I say Brooklyn?

• 14:16Speaker 06

  No, it does not matter.

• 14:18Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so you can pick, customers pick. Brooke, they can pick Brooklyn, Stevens, four oh six bone works. Done a bunch of work for everybody around here, you're doing Spencer's biggest buck he ever got.

• 14:29Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 14:29Steven Rinella?

  Nice.

• 14:30Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 14:30Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, he's, he's probably the biggest buck I've year old so far.

• 14:36Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 14:36Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 14:37Steven Rinella?

  He's a picky man, too.

• 14:39Speaker 06

  Is he?

• 14:39Steven Rinella?

  If he's happy, you'll know you did a good job.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  Spencer's picky.

• 14:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, I've done, I've done a few. Little guy.

• 14:47Steven Rinella?

  Fussy little fellow, likes everything, kinda how he likes it. Ever been in his house? Likes everything, how he likes it.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  If you, if you move something, he knows.

• 14:57Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  He likes it just how he likes it, it's hard to live that way.

• 15:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. All right, Brooke, you can take off, go clean some skulls.

• 15:06Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 15:06Steven Rinella?

  All right, thanks, dude, appreciate you coming by.

• 15:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, thank you.

• 15:09Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  Gosh, I already broke those rules.

• 15:11Steven Rinella?

  Which ones?

• 15:13Speaker 05

  Skinned.

• 15:13Steven Rinella?

  You skin didn't let it rot?

• 15:15Speaker 05

  Still, still in a box in the garage.

• 15:18Speaker 04

  She's skin didn't let it rot. I also like to call me anything, you know, it's like you can call me anything, just call me for your text or any needs.

• 15:24Steven Rinella?

  That's, that's a good, yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  It's the only rule.

• 15:26Steven Rinella?

  Okay, Rob Sand, man, let, let's, um. Let's start a little bit. Let's start a little bit about, we'll get it. I want to talk about the buck. I want to talk about um what exactly you do for a living, what you're fixing to do for a living.

• 15:39Speaker 04

  You bet.

• 15:40Steven Rinella?

  But let's um, let's start out, uh, let's start out back home and when you were a wee lad.

• 15:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:46Steven Rinella?

  So one of the, one of the articles I read about, you made a lot, gave a lot of ink to the fact that you were, uh, that you worked in the poultry.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  I, I did.

• 15:53Steven Rinella?

  As a, as a, as a chicken catcher.

• 15:56Speaker 04

  I did. Well, technically capons.

• 15:57Steven Rinella?

  Capon catcher.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  So.

• 15:59Steven Rinella?

  Castrated chickens.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  Okay. Uh, this is in northeast Iowa. I grew up in Decorah. Um, and so there's a factory on the east, east side of town, east side of town. Uh, that we actually toured when I was in third grade.

• 16:13Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  So you get to.

• 16:15Steven Rinella?

  That's how you got a foot in the door.

• 16:16Speaker 04

  That's exactly right. They were like, you looks dirty. Uh, I remember, I remember the little old ladies splashing some of the giblet water on us as we were walking past. So that was very, that was thrilling. Definitely made me think I have a career ahead of me in capons.

• 16:29Steven Rinella?

  Uh.

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Uh, but you know, I'm fourteen.

• 16:32Steven Rinella?

  I'm not, uh, like I, if that was a trivia question, I don't know that I would have gotten it right.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  What a capon is?

• 16:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's unusual. But, but, but how is the, the consumer's not buying a capon? This is, this is a production term.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  I can't tell you if they're marketed honestly as capons or not. My job was walk into the barn, pick up the capons, hand them to the guy on the truck. And that was, that was the end. And I was fourteen, so I wasn't paying attention to, yeah, five bucks an hour. Cash. I don't know if I should say that.

• 17:02Steven Rinella?

  No, they'll come for you.

• 17:05Speaker 04

  Uh, it was, uh, five bucks an hour cash. It was good money and you could do it when you were fourteen and, uh, yeah, just huge barns. So they pull these huge trucks in, turn off the lights. Uh, like I said, cap, capons are castrated male chickens, so they're fattier.

• 17:21Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 17:22Speaker 04

  Um, bigger than usual. And you're just walking around, you grab them by the legs.

• 17:27Steven Rinella?

  Both legs.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  But both is great. Cause if you can get both, then they can't scratch you.

• 17:33Steven Rinella?

  Can't spur your bite.

• 17:34Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. Um, no matter what, their last line of defense is always to piss and shit all over you.

• 17:39Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  So that's going to happen.

• 17:41Steven Rinella?

  Got it. Um, that's what Phil does.

• 17:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, is that right?

• 17:44Steven Rinella?

  Sorry.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  If you grab them, if you grab them by the ankles.

• 17:47Steven Rinella?

  This is the only line of defense.

• 17:50Speaker 04

  So we, you know, you grab my, grab my ankles, hopefully you get both, pick up another one, you know, maybe you get strong enough six months later that you can do three at a time or try to get four.

• 17:59Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 18:00Speaker 04

  If your technique's improving, give them to the guy in the truck and you do that until all the trucks are full. So.

• 18:05Steven Rinella?

  Is this one of those young kid jobs that a lot of young kids come in and a lot of them leave on day one?

• 18:10Speaker 04

  Oh, that, that was.

• 18:11Steven Rinella?

  Like, like throwing hay bales tends to be like that.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  Funny that you mentioned that. My buddy Andy Rasmussen, one of my best friends, he, he came once, did not go back to collect his pay.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  And he's a hard, and he's a hard working dude.

• 18:26Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 18:27Speaker 04

  He, he's, but this is just, this was not his, not his bag.

• 18:31Steven Rinella?

  Where I grew up, there's two jobs any kid could get and every kid got them.

• 18:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:36Steven Rinella?

  And it was any kid could walk in and start peeling logs.

• 18:39Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 18:40Steven Rinella?

  For log home.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  We don't have that. We don't have that in Iowa.

• 18:42Steven Rinella?

  Thirty five cents a foot. I don't know what it is now, but thirty five cents a foot. Any kid could walk in and he'd be like, have at it.

• 18:48Speaker 04

  So you're peeling bark?

• 18:49Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, peeling bark off.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 18:50Steven Rinella?

  You know, like a nice log home has that hand peeled look.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:54Steven Rinella?

  Anybody could come in. There's no, there was just the application period. There was no, there was no interview.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  Are you swinging a hatchet?

• 19:02Steven Rinella?

  No, it's a draw knife.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 19:04Steven Rinella?

  And it was just simply, sure, go ahead.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:08Steven Rinella?

  Ready, go. And most people peeled a couple of feet of the log and left.

• 19:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, there you go. There you go.

• 19:15Steven Rinella?

  And the other one was working at the greenhouse.

• 19:17Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 19:17Steven Rinella?

  Filling flats with dirt.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  That would probably be a little bit.

• 19:22Steven Rinella?

  Soil, whatever they call it.

• 19:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:24Steven Rinella?

  But it was like, anybody could get it, but not everybody wanted it.

• 19:27Speaker 04

  Detasseling corn was, was the other one for Iowa.

• 19:29Steven Rinella?

  That's in that too.

• 19:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:31Steven Rinella?

  Was your family agriculture?

• 19:32Speaker 04

  No. I could see corn and cows out my bedroom window, but my dad likes to say he was a farmer for six months. And then when he was six months old, they moved off the farm.

• 19:39Steven Rinella?

  Got it. Got it.

• 19:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:40Steven Rinella?

  So you didn't, you, you were, you were ag, ag adjacent, but not an ag family?

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right. Well, and everything, if you're in small town Iowa, you know, kind of everything's ag adjacent to a certain degree. So.

• 19:51Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 19:51Speaker 04

  But yeah, first job was catching chickens. Moved on from there to McDonald's for a couple of years and then the the curve ball would be I think my next job after that was working for a local internet service provider strangely enough.

• 20:03Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 20:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, so.

• 20:05Steven Rinella?

  You went to law school in Iowa?

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Went to law school at Iowa, uh, and then went to the attorney general's office after that, seven years as the chief public corruption prosecutor in Iowa.

• 20:13Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so I was gonna ask, okay, so that's how you became aware of that there's all this?

• 20:18Speaker 04

  There is a state auditor, yes.

• 20:20Steven Rinella?

  There's like, there's like a lead that there's like stuff to do in the government.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 20:24Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:25Steven Rinella?

  So what was that work now?

• 20:26Speaker 04

  So, uh, I prosecuted most of the public corruption in Iowa in that timeframe, so like many states, we had a film office, uh, tax credit, a filmmaking tax credit. Like some other states, we screwed it up and there was a lot of fraud, so I prosecuted those cases. Also uncovered the largest lottery rigging scheme in American history, that's a crazy story, actually, that's a good one to talk about here.

• 20:50Steven Rinella?

  Version of that?

• 20:50Speaker 04

  That's a great one to talk about here, there were Bigfoot hunters involved.

• 20:53Steven Rinella?

  Ooh.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 20:56Steven Rinella?

  So you, the fact that you think that excites me.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:01Steven Rinella?

  Is a little insulting, no.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  I'm excited by it.

• 21:04Steven Rinella?

  I'm like, I'm. Too bad Spencer's not here. Anti Bigfoot.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  All right. I mean, I'm not anti his existence or anti looking for him?

• 21:12Steven Rinella?

  We've had lookers on.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Uh-huh.

• 21:14Steven Rinella?

  We've had a looker on. Well, no, she wasn't, she covered the lookers.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, okay.

• 21:20Steven Rinella?

  She covered.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  She was a reporter.

• 21:22Steven Rinella?

  She covered the lookers.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  Okay, all right.

• 21:24Steven Rinella?

  And then she kind of was a little bit, she didn't wanna condemn them.

• 21:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:29Steven Rinella?

  Cause that's her sources.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  They're, they're, they're, they're, they're people searching for truth in the world, you know?

• 21:34Steven Rinella?

  That's, yeah, that would, that would have been the kind of thing she would have said on.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm not here to judge him, I'm just here to tell you, some of these jackpots were claimed. The, the guy who was the mastermind of it, it was his job to write. The computer program that's gonna pick winning numbers, he put a little bit extra in there. And so his brother, who was a justice of peace down in Texas.

• 21:56Steven Rinella?

  Oh, he got it back way up.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:58Steven Rinella?

  State lottery.

• 22:00Speaker 04

  So interesting. He actually worked for the multi-state lottery association.

• 22:04Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  So they ran, uh, the show for different games across thirty-eight different states and Canadian provinces.

• 22:11Steven Rinella?

  Got it. And this is not the kind where the ball blows up in the.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  It is not.

• 22:15Steven Rinella?

  Okay. It's a computer generated winner.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  It's funny because they moved into the computer generated systems after the triple six fix in Pennsylvania.

• 22:22Steven Rinella?

  Not familiar.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  Uh, the triple six fix was a rigged lottery jackpot with the, the balls, right? But they injected dye into the sixes. And so the sixes dropped down, which technically speaking, this is one of those weird things.

• 22:36Steven Rinella?

  They weighted the ping pong ball?

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, yes, yes, yes. And this is one of those weird things. Technically speaking, it's.

• 22:43Steven Rinella?

  The triple six fix?

• 22:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:44Steven Rinella?

  We should have a whole different podcast about this.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  They, they may have done. Blood trail season two. Oh, that's, I was gonna say, like, you wanna talk, we got blood trails, but financial crime, if you involve the Bigfoot, that's your angle, the Bigfoot hunters, right?

• 22:57Steven Rinella?

  The triple six fix.

• 22:59Speaker 04

  Triple six fix in Pennsylvania.

• 23:00Steven Rinella?

  Who? Okay, I don't wanna spend too much time on the triple six fix.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Okay, sure.

• 23:05Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so, go on.

• 23:06Speaker 04

  Well, so, somebody, somebody who forgot what human nature was, was like, oh, if we do this with computers, then no one will ever rig it. And of course, then Eddie Tipton came along, who's the mastermind at the center of this one.

• 23:17Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 23:18Speaker 04

  And he rigged the computer program. So he, he would know, he would be able to go out and buy.

• 23:23Steven Rinella?

  Rigged what was written.

• 23:24Speaker 04

  He, he wrote the program, but then put a little extra in there.

• 23:28Steven Rinella?

  What?

• 23:28Speaker 04

  So that on one of three dates of the year, if that date fell on a Wednesday or a Saturday, and if the draw was happening after eight P M. Rather than going to the actual random number generator for the first seed, it would go to a seven variable algorithm that he knew. And so he could, he could have people go and buy a hundred, two hundred, three hundred tickets, and he would know that he was hitting the jackpot in those three hundred.

• 23:54Steven Rinella?

  What?

• 23:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. And then his brother is a justice of the peace down in Texas and a Bigfoot hunter. And so he tapped into his Bigfoot hunting network to help claim some of the tickets, which I, I feel, I theorize. Wow. Cause he had like his associates. Yes. Wow. And this has gotta be, don't, don't these folks have to have a high degree of trust in each other? Yeah. Cause you are looked at by the outside world as I'm sure you're laughed at. Yeah, yeah. And so this, you, you, you believe, I believe. Yeah, we know. Yeah. We deserve this money. That's right, that's right. And so he, his brother. Did the people that were, the, the names, did they even know their names are being used? You didn't, they did. So what it was, was.

• 24:38Speaker 04

  Oh, because they're, they're being told what number to play. They're being, they, I don't know that they were being told what number to play. But the brother of the mastermind would go to them and say, hey, I won the lottery. But my wife and I are on the outs or, you know, something about like, I don't want my wife to know I'm gambling. Something like that. Will you claim the ticket? I'll let you keep 10%. Just do all of it cash. Understood. Today, not the annuity thing. I'll give you 10% if you go claim it. And so they'd go claim it. And then 10 years went by, there was this 16 million dollar jackpot in Iowa. Uh huh. Actually, folks, if you wanna, if you got an hour and you wanna watch a documentary, lotodoc.com. You can watch the whole story there. Are you, are you in it?

• 25:20Speaker 04

  Book about it. I am. I didn't have anything to do with making it. I'd prefer you buy my book personally. Yeah. It's the winning ticket, but crazy story. So, so we got to interview, you know, uh, this Bigfoot hunter down in, uh, way east Texas, down in the bayous. Okay. Uh, ironically, last name Khan, C O N N. Some of this stuff you just can't make up, right? Really? Yeah, yeah. Uh, and, uh, and all they were like, yeah, he's my Bigfoot hunting buddy. The brother, who was kind of at the, the, the, the thread that connected from the mastermind, actually got interviewed about the very first jackpot, one out in Colorado. Okay.

• 26:01Speaker 04

  By an FBI agent while he's in the hospital with two broken legs from falling out of a tree while Bigfoot hunting. Wow. Yeah. These guys are in deep. They're in deep. Crazy story. Well, did this go to a jury? It did when we only had, we only knew of the one Iowa ticket. So interesting wrinkle here. You know, you got your right to speedy trial, ladies and gentlemen, if you've been charged with the crime. You got your right to speedy trial. In Iowa, you can have a 90 day speedy trial rule. Normally, the federal rules is a year, but you can demand it in 90 days. Okay. And this was a case that had kind of been around for a long time. It got handed to me. We did a little, we pushed a little bit on the investigation, got some good stuff and then suddenly realized, but we gotta indict this guy.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  Once we found him out, uh, we released the video of him purchasing the tickets and got some good tips, actually from a guy in Maine. But we, we, uh, Not a Bigfoot hunter. Not a Bigfoot hunter, no. But a guy that knew the mastermind was like, that's Eddie Tipton. Huh. So we had to indict him real quick. And then he demanded speedy trial under the Iowa rule for 90 days. So we had this sense, at that point, we're like, okay, this guy works at the Multi-State Lottery Association. It's his job to write the program that picks winning numbers. And here we have him buying a ticket. This thing's obviously rigged. We have no hard evidence. We don't have the computer, right? It's all circumstantial case. Yeah. And so of course, we're thinking Multi-State Lottery Association's running games in 38 states and provinces. There's got, this can't be the only one. Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  But he demands speedy trial. And so we go to trial. We have a jury trial. The, we, we pick the jury. The day we start evidence, CBS This Morning covers this trial, says, uh, they got some computer expert on. This guy's got a pretty, the defendant, he's got a pretty powerful argument for reasonable doubt because they don't have that hard evidence. We won anyway. And then we're waiting for sentencing. Mm hmm. It's like a six week wait. You do this, there's a pre-sentence investigation, so the Department of Corrections can make a recommendation to the judge. Got it. While we're waiting, I get a phone call from Texas and I recognize the area code is his area code. Just my phone rings in my cubicle. Answer the phone. Hey, is this Rob Sand? Yeah. Do y'all know the, Eddie Tipton's brother won the lottery?

• 28:18Speaker 04

  Uh, no. Yeah, maybe about 10 years ago, west somewhere, maybe Colorado. I did not know that. Thank you. And so the investigation then, now we've got the tip that we kind of needed to go to other state lotteries. That we technically don't have any, you know, we can't tell them, give me this. But now we've got some information that we can really go to them and say, you probably need to give us this. And they've got a reason to do it. So investigation went on from there. Did another state wind up nabbing him or did you guys get the, who, who got, who gets to host him? It was, it was interesting. He served his time in Iowa. Uh, we had great cooperation and really important work from the Wisconsin Attorney General's Office.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  David Moss up there and Joanne Joy, credit to them, a prosecutor and a, a, a investigating agent. And then out in Colorado, uh, Rob, I think his name was Rob Shapiro at the IG's office there. They agreed, they decided to do a prosecution. They didn't have much role in the investigation. But Joanne and, and David were really helpful. So this is probably, we think this is probably the biggest multi-state plea agreement since the founding of federal law enforcement. Cause we couldn't get the feds to take the case. Is he in the Who's Scout now? Who, what now? Is he in jail, locked up? No, now he's out. He served like four and a half years. That's it? Yeah.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  In, now, he has to, he's, he's, my understanding is he's still got his sentence hanging over his head in Wis- in Wisconsin. Got it. So if he doesn't make good on his restitution, which he better start doing. I think they can haul him in in Wisconsin and, and throw him back in. But he's down in Texas and. He's probably playing lottery. I mean. To win the restitution money. He, he might know what numbers to pick.

• 30:08Speaker 00

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• 30:39Steven Rinella?

  I travel quite a bit. And when I'm home, it's very easy to stay on a rigid food routine and eat the right kinds of food at the right time. But when you're on the road, it's hard to stay in your routine. And like, diet can really start to fall apart. I've seen it. And that's why I like Athletic Greens. Now, AG1 is already the standard for daily foundational nutrition. AG1 Pro is what's next. It's built for people who don't want to stop there. Creatine, C-A-H-M-B, advanced gut lining support, on top of everything AG1 Next Gen already delivers. You can get it in travel packs. One travel pack, 10 to 12 ounces of cold water every morning. If you're already taking creatine separately, AG1 Pro simplifies your stack.

• 31:24Steven Rinella?

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• 32:09Steven Rinella?

  they all got WeatherTech. We get a car, we throw the mats out and put in WeatherTech. That way, when there's a mess, it's like your kid's fault, your dog's fault, it's the weather's fault, doesn't matter. You take them suckers out and hose them off, and you're back to being good as new. I'm telling you, if you've got a vehicle, put WeatherTech in there. You're gonna be happy you did it. And check this out. American-made floor liners and cargo liners, okay? They laugh in the face of all weather. Go take a look for yourself today at weathertech.com.

• 32:38Steven Rinella?

  Man, I don't want, I want to tell you about something. I don't want this to take up too much time, but did you hear about these dudes in Texas that just did that? They won the lottery, but they won it fair and square. They, these mathematicians, they kind of, it's a global network. Was this the, the serial number thing? Like they figured out a clue in the serial number? No, no, no, no. They, they, it's a global network of these mathematician guys and they just watch sweepstakes, raffles, giveaways, lotteries. They watch them for vulnerabilities. Oh, interesting. In Texas, they realized that you could, if you're a business, you can get your own lottery machine for tickets. I did see this.

• 33:21Steven Rinella?

  So they just rent offices all over the state. Yeah, yeah. They don't open any businesses because it's not part of the thing. You just need an address. They rent offices all over the state. They get their own Lotto machines. They wait till the jackpot gets to a certain bit.

• 33:38Steven Rinella?

  And where they know their expected value hits the, this is the time. Friends, families, they're like, they're banking on, they, they have it have to be that they can't be a split jackpot. Yep. If it's a split jackpot, they break even. If they're the sole winner, they clear tens of millions of dollars. Yeah. And so they would, they would wait till it hit that amount. There's actually. And then they got 72 hours or something like that. There's another story that's similar out of Michigan. Matter of fact, Jerry and Marge go large. Oh. Jerry and Marge. Jerry was some Michigan guy who just had a real head for numbers. And he noticed some pattern in some game in Michigan and basically did the same thing. There's, there was, it started with a newspaper, or sorry, a magazine article, and then it got turned into a movie.

• 34:23Steven Rinella?

  Oh. Uh, great movie. Yeah, these dudes ran in Michigan or not. And they had 72 hours, kids, wives, everybody. Yeah. They ran every number combination. Possibly buy, yeah. And then had a storage system. They do the draw. They go into their little thing. They're like, here's a ticket. Right. They're passing a law like and I and as of last I knew everyone looked at it every which way looking for why that's illegal.

• 34:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:49Steven Rinella?

  As far as I know, it's not.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:51Steven Rinella?

  So now that now the Texas legislature is like is changing the rules to make it that you can't do that.

• 34:57Speaker 04

  And they're all mad and they're trying to make it look like these people screwed up because they're a bunch of politicians who don't want to admit that they wrote stupid rules for a game. They didn't let somebody do that.

• 35:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. These guys like we won fair and square.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, they just outsmarted them. They're like, dude, you wrote these rules. We read the rules that you wrote. We played the game according to the rules. Don't be mad at me.

• 35:14Steven Rinella?

  Eddie did not do that.

• 35:16Speaker 04

  Player. That's right. That's right. Eddie actually put a little extra code in there that made it made it predictable. So that's why he that's the difference. That's why he went to prison and these people got a bunch of money.

• 35:26Steven Rinella?

  These people get to hang out.

• 35:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:28Steven Rinella?

  All right, uh, one last thing, then we're gonna, I got an order in my head.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:32Steven Rinella?

  What so we we talk about the when you were do we're doing that department of what's it called again? Like you're not a prosecutor.

• 35:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was. Yeah. So I was assistant attorney general and prosecutor.

• 35:42Steven Rinella?

  Attorney general.

• 35:43Speaker 04

  Some uh, some violent crime, but the focus was uh, financial crime.

• 35:46Steven Rinella?

  And then you're now the state auditor currently.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  That's right. That's right.

• 35:52Steven Rinella?

  That's an elected position?

• 35:53Speaker 04

  Elected in Iowa. Yeah. So it's a mix in different states. Easiest way to understand is it's like uh, closest thing to taxpayers watchdogs. So we audit tax spenders, not taxpayers.

• 36:02Steven Rinella?

  Give me an example of a tax spender.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Uh, the state, the state government, highway department, DOT, Department of Education. If a county or a city or a school districts hires us for their annual audit, we do their audit. And then we do special investigations under certain circumstances.

• 36:18Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 36:20Steven Rinella?

  Is that a competitive field if you go to try to get elected?

• 36:22Speaker 04

  Well, sure. I mean, at the end of the day, anytime you got a race, Iowa still the at its heart is a fairly competitive state. That doesn't mean that every race is competitive, but when you're looking statewide, you know, it can go either way.

• 36:34Steven Rinella?

  So more people will run against you.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:37Steven Rinella?

  Reason I ask, for a period of time, my mother was the treasurer of her township.

• 36:40Speaker 04

  Oh, no way.

• 36:41Steven Rinella?

  Thirty-six square miles.

• 36:42Speaker 04

  All right.

• 36:43Steven Rinella?

  Big chunk of ground.

• 36:44Speaker 04

  I'm betting she didn't have a lot of competition for that.

• 36:45Steven Rinella?

  She would sometimes uh, it would be that no one would run against her.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 36:49Steven Rinella?

  Which makes it very easy to win.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  That's that's much better.

• 36:51Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 36:52Speaker 04

  I would prefer that. That would be great. I could actually spend a lot more time hunting.

• 36:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 04

  And hanging out with my kids.

• 36:58Steven Rinella?

  So you won that.

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:00Steven Rinella?

  And that's how long a job is that?

• 37:01Speaker 04

  Uh, four years, reelected in twenty-two. And to your point, when I won in 18, that was the first time in Iowa in 36 years, which I think of my life, basically, I was 36 at the time. But basically, the first time in my life that a statewide incumbent Republican lost to a Democratic challenger.

• 37:21Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  So.

• 37:22Steven Rinella?

  As auditor?

• 37:22Speaker 04

  As, no, for any statewide, any statewide office, yeah. We tend to reelect our incumbents in Iowa. There's, there's exceptions, but, yeah.

• 37:33Steven Rinella?

  And we were talking about running for governor and, uh, we're never, we're not gonna get into this yet because we're gonna talk about deer.

• 37:39Speaker 04

  Good.

• 37:39Steven Rinella?

  Running for governor, it's, it's, this is the first time in some long period of time that it's, it's an open race.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, first time, let's see, basically since, first time in 20 years.

• 37:50Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 37:51Speaker 04

  Yep, yep, so it was, uh, you, you'll, going back to people on the inside, uh, one of the things that kind of made me push to do it was, so we uncovered a record amount of misspent money in my first term.

• 38:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  I get reelected. The response to Democrats and Republicans and independents in Iowa reelecting me was, the legislature and the governor passed a law so that state agencies can hide evidence of misspent tax dollars from our office.

• 38:17Steven Rinella?

  Can hide?

• 38:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:20Steven Rinella?

  I don't understand.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  I know, because why would you ever do that? Right? That's wrong, it's bad, yes, that's what they did.

• 38:27Steven Rinella?

  But, uh, help me understand, like, what's the argument for hiding evidence?

• 38:31Speaker 04

  Oh, well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 38:33Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's, that's the argument.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  You gotta make, you gotta have words come out of your mouth, it's all BS. The words that would come out of their mouth were, oh, well, we're trying to protect your privacy.

• 38:42Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 38:42Speaker 04

  Privacy for waste, fraud, and abuse of my tax dollars? I don't want privacy for that.

• 38:46Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  Every, every government watchdog in the country that weighed in on this law, Democrats, independents, Republicans, they were all like, don't, don't, don't do this. This is terrible, you're going to see an increase in waste of tax dollars if you pass this law. They passed it anyway. Because they, because they saw that we were like, you know, doing the job.

• 39:04Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  And they were like, hey. He's making, he's letting people know what's happening. We can't have that. Got it. So. But then you won after that? No, I got reelected, then they did that. So that made the job less fun? Oh, I mean, we're about to do something important. We're about to tell people a big deal. We're trying to hold people accountable and they're like, hmm, we don't want you to look at that. Oh, well, what am I doing here then? Huh. There was a, there was, I remember one of the quotes from someone who was like on the government oversight committee for the American Institute of CPAs. Was like, if you pass this law, you may as well make it so you don't have a state auditor. Oh. That's what they did. And that's what they're like, that's what we mean.

• 39:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, they were like, perfect. Let's pass this sucker. That's just the endorsement they wanted. Huh. Yeah, yeah. Alright. So yeah, job suddenly became less interesting, less fun. I, I really, I mean, this is a piece, piece of this is rooted in my faith. My faith, as those stories mentioned, very important to me. One of the stories that always stuck out to me in, as a kid, was Jesus flipping over the tables of the money changers in a temple. People in a position of trust and power, right? Who are abusing that trust and power. And I, I loved the work I was doing as a prosecutor going after corrupt public officials, corrupt financial advisors, who prey on people's trust, right? Who use their position to get more for themselves. I love the work of holding people accountable who are in charge of tax dollars,

• 40:32Speaker 04

  making sure that they knew that someone was looking at them and didn't care about the power that they had, but cared about whether or not they were doing the right thing. Mm hmm. And then you change that law and you take that away. And it's like, well, I don't want to do this anymore. And it makes it all the more important to say, sounds like we need a new governor, someone who's going to give the auditor their power back and do a bunch of other good stuff at the same time. Mm hmm. That's kind of the idea. Okay, let's jump into deer, please. That's what sealed deal. That's what sealed the deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We read the articles and then Crin's like, he got a really big buck in the urban hunting program. Yes. Yes. Boom. Done. So explain, so you're in Des Moines? Yep. Okay. What, what is the urban hunting program in Des Moines?

• 41:12Speaker 04

  What I can tell you of it, I've been doing it for, I think 13 years and many Iowa municipalities have got an urban hunting program. Cause we got big whitetail over the state. Okay. And you know, they're eating people's hostas and all that. And you always get a divide on the people who want you to take them and don't, but most cities have got a program, bow hunting only. You gotta shoot from an elevated position so that your arrows going into the ground. You gotta be in a stand. You have to take an annual, every single year, you gotta repass your marksmanship test so that you all, they always know. Is it a serious test? It's not super. I would call it a proficiency. People call it a proficiency test. Yeah. So it's like 10 arrows from 15 yards and 10 arrows from 20 yards at a nine inch target.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  It's not, it's not hard. Got it. And they don't want you to take shots beyond about 25 yards. So. Yeah, like if someone said, hey, is he a good shot? And you said. He's proficient. Proficient. Yeah. Yeah. That feels right. Yeah, you know what you're doing. Yeah. Um. And tell me the again, so 10 shots? 10, I think it's 10 from 20 yards and 10 from 15 yards at a nine inch target. Got it. Um, and you gotta hit. You gotta do a background check and all that? I don't think, if, if, if you had to do a background check, it would have been maybe at the beginning. You do have to take a bow hunter's safety course at one point in your life. Okay. Which is awesome, cause I did that when I was like 14. Yeah. And so when I found out about the urban hunting program and it was like already November, the first year.

• 42:40Speaker 04

  I was like, I gotta do what now? And I was like, oh man, I did that. Hey dad, didn't I do that? Isn't that that class you made me take? Yeah. Great. Now I just gotta go find my certificate. Okay. But once you do that, so then, so then it's an incentive program. And but, but the, the, the landowners are participa, they have to participate, obviously. There are parks and stuff. There are parks and there's a system for doing the park hunting. I've always done private land hunting. Uh, either our backyard or somebody I know. And then for this one, I'd lock, I knocked a lot of doors. Mm hmm. Um, but yeah, there's parks. Uh, what else do I need to add here? It's an incentive system. So every year to, to get a urban buck tag in the city of Des Moines, you gotta take three antlerless deer the year before. Man, that's earn a buck on steroids.

• 43:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. There's, and it's different for. Cause they're trying to lower numbers and they don't want a lot of, they don't want a lot of funny business. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And they're. They don't want buck, big buck hunters flocking in. No, they, it's a, it's a very like, you gotta, you gotta earn that urban tag for a antlered buck. Okay. So, so 2024. And it resets, I gather. Yes. And it doesn't get, that gets you into the lottery. Now, most years.

• 43:52Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 43:52Speaker 04

  If you're in the lottery.

• 43:54Steven Rinella?

  A buck tag lottery.

• 43:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, you'll, most years, if you're in, if you, if you get the three and you make it into the lottery, you will get an urban buck tag.

• 44:01Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  But you're not guaranteed, you may not. And so, most years, I've gotten one, but there's other years where you don't.

• 44:07Steven Rinella?

  And how are you showing that you got the three deer?

• 44:09Speaker 04

  You have to check them in. So it used to be in person, and then I, I don't remember if it was COVID or not, but they switched it to an online system. You gotta, you gotta fill out your tag, you gotta do your time, and you gotta submit photographs too.

• 44:21Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 44:21Speaker 04

  Uh, so that they have some certainty that this is a, a, a fresh, unique deer each time.

• 44:27Steven Rinella?

  Got it, yeah. So the first year participating in the urban hunt, no chance for bucks, you gotta do your three does.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  That's right, that's right. Yep.

• 44:34Steven Rinella?

  Wow.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, uh, and this year, uh, a guy sent me a picture.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  I'd put a post up. I was like, hey, I'm, uh, I'd never done that before. Usually just hunted where I hunted.

• 44:49Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:49Speaker 04

  Hey, I'm looking for a big buck in Des Moines, I've got my urban buck tag. If you know anyone, let me know.

• 44:54Steven Rinella?

  If you know anyone that has a big buck.

• 44:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, if you've seen a big buck in your neighborhood. If you've seen a big buck in your neighborhood, let me know. And this guy I had met at a party like ten or fifteen years ago.

• 45:05Steven Rinella?

  That's one of those ones where you're like, it's so stupid it might work.

• 45:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 45:09Steven Rinella?

  Cause like, well, who would wanna tell another guy about a big buck?

• 45:12Speaker 04

  And that's the thing.

• 45:12Steven Rinella?

  But it might be just a guy that doesn't care.

• 45:14Speaker 04

  Yes. Well, and a lot of these people are like, that, that, that buck's eating my hostas.

• 45:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 45:20Speaker 04

  That buck, this, that, the other.

• 45:21Steven Rinella?

  Cause if I did an all-company email.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:24Steven Rinella?

  And I said, if anyone knows about a large buck.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 45:27Steven Rinella?

  Let me know.

• 45:28Speaker 04

  Right.

• 45:29Steven Rinella?

  I wouldn't, I'm not gonna get replies.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. But this is the city of Des Moines, people want you to take a deer, right? And, uh, a lot of people are just like, yeah, here you go. Now, there's not that many, there's, now, most of the hunters that are in the program, who knew of this buck, were like, hey, man, good for you. I did a lot of work. So he gave me one, I had one picture.

• 45:54Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  Man, I hoofed it.

• 45:55Steven Rinella?

  But there's no way the buck is only using one property.

• 45:57Speaker 04

  Oh, no, he's, he's all over. There are other people that knew of him. Actually, the guy that measured him. Um, and, and he, this is green measure. He measured two oh nine.

• 46:06Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 46:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, and he.

• 46:09Steven Rinella?

  Phil, that is very, very big.

• 46:12Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, maybe we, wait, should we roll, should we roll a photo?

• 46:15Speaker 07

  Definitely.

• 46:15Speaker 04

  Roll a photo.

• 46:17Speaker 05

  Should we roll?

• 46:18Speaker 07

  Well, which, which photo, which photo are we looking at here?

• 46:21Steven Rinella?

  One of the bucks.

• 46:21Speaker 07

  The ones in the, in the dock here?

• 46:23Speaker 05

  Live, live, maybe trail.

• 46:25Steven Rinella?

  In the autumn, the buck in the autumn of his life.

• 46:27Speaker 04

  That's actually the picture he sent me. That's literally the one.

• 46:30Steven Rinella?

  He's like, hey, this one lives by me.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  And so, and so when I, when I, when I came to and picked myself up, up the floor and looked again at that buck.

• 46:38Steven Rinella?

  He's like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't want to waste your time, but like this buck's hanging around.

• 46:41Speaker 04

  This one seems kind of nice.

• 46:42Speaker 05

  Describe, I mean, that just looks like a tangle.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. If you're, if you're listening, main, mainframe ten pointer, in this picture, you can see a one big drop time and a second smaller brow time, which you can't see in this picture is actually a second drop. Uh, coming off of that same G1.

• 47:00Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 47:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. And he, and he, and what's the funny thing in the picture is he looks young, but it's because his rack is so huge. And he's in velvet. So, you know, there's always a little shrinkage, but not that much.

• 47:14Steven Rinella?

  So when he, when the guy reaches out, when the guy reaches out.

• 47:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:17Steven Rinella?

  Well, first off, how far?

• 47:21Steven Rinella?

  I'm not familiar with Des Moines, like what he says, it's in this area. This is the area you know.

• 47:25Speaker 04

  I'm like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, where do you live? And he gives me his address.

• 47:29Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 47:29Speaker 04

  I'm like, thank you, you know? Uh, have you seen him other places? He's like, no, I think he's only seen him once or twice. And from that point, I just go to work. You know, it's just, this is scouting. It's just more complicated when, when each postage stamp is another landowner. So I'm, I'm on Onyx. I'm looking at where he lives. I'm looking at, you know, topography and figured out if I was a buck over there, where would I go? And I go, I knocked doors, just cold knocked on people's doors. I called people if I could get their phone numbers, just called them up. Hey, my name's Rob. There's an urban bow hunting program in Des Moines to help population control.

• 48:05Speaker 04

  This is all your prosecutor training. That's right. Well, I'm just opening with a story, you know, just letting them know why I'm calling. Uh, and I'm wondering if you're interested. I, I'm, I've been in the program for 13 years. Never any issues for anybody, but I'm looking to hunt in your area and I'm wondering if you'd be interested in letting me hunt on your property. Happy to answer all your questions. What's an average acreage? Oh, these houses, I mean, less than, less than an acre for a lot of them. Now, a handful of them are more.

• 48:38Speaker 05

  A ton of doors.

• 48:39Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm going out in the evenings and knocking, I'm making phone calls. Some people are yes, some people are no. Occasionally people know me, like one guy actually had my yard sign in his yard. So I was like, okay, I like my odds here. Yeah. But then on the other hand, there were folks who. I'm actually not here about that. Thank you for putting my yard sign up. He's like, Rob Sand, you're knocking my door. I was like, well, yes, I am knocking your door, but you'll be surprised as to why. And so, and I'm setting up cameras, you know, trying to figure out where, where this guy is, zeroing in. And I had other people say, man, if I was gonna let anybody hunt here, I'd let you. I'm with you, but I'm not gonna let you hunt here.

• 49:18Speaker 04

  You know, so it's just, it totally depends, totally depends. Some couples, you know, you'd have the, the wife would be the one who's like, no, don't hunt. Your other couples, the husband be the one who's like, no, we don't, I don't want you to hunt here. And so I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm hitting out, I'm striking out here, I'm hitting singles here, setting up cameras, zeroing in over the course of probably six weeks in the summertime. Are you ever driving around and see it?

• 49:43Speaker 04

  One time, not driving, but I, well, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm on my bike. I'm either on my, cause I would take bike rides in the neighborhood to scout. It was, it was bikeable from my house. And so I'd, I'd get on my bike and instead of going east like I might normally do, I'd go west and just bike around and be like, ooh. Cause you know, there's stuff you can't see on Onyx, you don't know. And you can see the path and all that, so. Um, but one, one time I drove into a property, I was gonna go knock the door. And I look over there and here, there's one of the guys in his bachelor group, one of the other bucks. Um, yeah. And so I was, you know, hair on the back of my neck is like, all right, great. We're in the right spot here, we're making progress. So by the time we get to opening day.

• 50:28Speaker 04

  I got three properties where I've had a moving in the daylight on camera. What's opening day? Uh, September 16th. Okay. Something like that, like middle of September. And, uh, and I set up, there's, it's been a southerly wind, so I set up on one where I, I like my chances. I got permission from two adjoining property owners, that's great. Cause that means I can be sitting in one, but it's a small property. So I can shoot into the other. This is very helpful, cause they both signed the document, you gotta get a signed document if you're doing private land. I gotta interrupt the story just to ask this little clarifying question. Yeah. What are the retrieval rules here?

• 51:09Speaker 04

  You know, it's, it's just, it's be, it's be so careful. That's the rules. Well, so, so technically speaking, in the state of Iowa, if you have, uh, an animal that you have taken, you have, you have legal capacity to take the most direct line to that animal across someone else's property. Okay. Now you ask law enforcement about that and smart law enforcement will tell you, please ask. It's not that you have to ask permission, just tell them. Yeah. We don't want some, we don't want altercations, we don't want someone out there with a gun being like, what are you doing to my property? So proper courtesy, best practice, knock on somebody's door. Okay. Now I've been, I've been lucky, I've never had to, I've never had an issue with that. You do gotta let folks know that you're hunting there.

• 51:54Speaker 04

  If you're, if you're like next door. And so a lot of these folks, when I would call them, it'd be like, hey, I'm going to be hunting in your neighborhood. You know, I'm interested also in hunting on your property. So there's a notification.

• 52:06Steven Rinella?

  In all these years, though, I mean, when you shoot, you have to put the arrow. I noticed that buck. There's an arrow, there's a mark on that buck where that mark is supposed to be.

• 52:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:16Steven Rinella?

  But that's gotta be a real thing.

• 52:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:19Steven Rinella?

  You know, you can't be chasing them 300 yards.

• 52:21Speaker 04

  No, you gotta be careful.

• 52:23Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 04

  Um, yeah.

• 52:25Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so go on. Where were we? You were, you had two properties where you could be on one and shoot onto the other one.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, cuz I got adjoining landowners. They both, so to do private, you gotta have them sign a document. You know, it's the city's official document.

• 52:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  The city's gotta come out and inspect the property and say like, okay, these distances, separation requirements, everything's good.

• 52:44Steven Rinella?

  What?

• 52:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. They're, well, I mean, I was hunting not far, you know, you, we, this is urban hunting, right? Like the guys at Sea Quan, you know, they talk about this. You got all these new variables, dogs, right? I've had dogs chase away a buck before.

• 53:00Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 53:01Speaker 04

  You got people out there on a walk in a park. You could have a biker out there if you're in a park. And so they're real careful about where people go.

• 53:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  So opening day, I go out that first full weekend. I sit Saturday twice. I sit Sunday twice. Sunday morning, two minutes into hunting light, I've been in my stand for 45 minutes.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  There he is. Is that him? Is it him? And you know, like, you know how, when you're right at hunting light, it's like if you're in a field, great, plenty of light. But if you're in the woods, it's still not there. And because, remember I mentioned I had seen his buddy in his bachelor group?

• 53:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  The buddy in his bachelor group had one of the same drop tines, narrower frame, shorter tines. But close enough that at two minutes into hunting light, under a bunch of oak trees, I'm like, is it him? Is it him?

• 53:57Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 53:58Speaker 04

  And I, and I wait, and I wait, and I, and I probably wait three minutes. That's probably all it takes for me to be like, it's him. And by the time I'm drawn, he's out of range.

• 54:10Speaker 04

  So that's that. Oh, it was him. Oh, it was him. No, it was him. But I'm waiting because if I. I thought you said it was the buddy. Wasn't you? Oh, it was a big boy. You were worried about the lookalike buddy. I was worried about the lookalike buddy. I got you. Cause I noticed, okay, this looks like him. It's a, it's a big mature. You wanted to make sure it was not, yeah. Cause there is no, you get your one, you know? And I, I didn't want to screw this up. And you paused and there goes your opportunity. Yeah, which I'm glad and I did it. Yeah. You know, but um, there you went.

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• 55:08Steven Rinella?

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• 56:30Speaker 04

  So what? A week later, I'm setting up a stand on another property. And I turn around and there he is. So I freeze. Can't move. I'm there for 10 minutes. Finally, he just wanders away. And so I had two sightings on him. And then the next, and then, so let's see. So the first two weekends I'm out, literally, I'm sitting Saturday till noon. Lunch break. Hang out with my, my family a little bit. Go out, sit for the afternoon into the evening, both Saturday and Sunday. Skipping church. Lord forgive me. Uh, October, then, and then, uh, I see him twice in that timeframe. And then like this first weekend in, in, in October, there's this cold front coming in. I'm like, all right, this is it.

• 57:15Speaker 04

  And I'm running for governor, by the way, at the same time. I'm doing 100 public town halls. One in every single county across the state. And I'm, and as this cold front is coming in, by the way, I'm sitting, I'm getting him on camera, Steve. It's 85 degrees.

• 57:29Steven Rinella?

  But why are you already running for governor then? How long you gotta run?

• 57:32Speaker 04

  I know, isn't that stupid? 18 months.

• 57:34Steven Rinella?

  You run for governor for 18 months?

• 57:36Speaker 04

  I wasn't even the first person in the race. But yeah, campaigns are that long these days. Yeah.

• 57:40Steven Rinella?

  So you're running for governor and hunting?

• 57:42Speaker 04

  I'm running for governor and hunting and doing my day job and trying to be a dad and a husband.

• 57:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 04

  Uh, some days are better than others.

• 57:48Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 57:49Speaker 04

  But, uh, you know, I'm, I'm doing all these town halls all across the state. So I'm traveling a lot and here comes this cold front. Finally, cause again, this buck, this is a 209 inch buck. He's moving in 85 degree heat. I've got him on camera.

• 58:03Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 58:03Speaker 04

  You know? And, uh, so I'm out there just sweating, sitting in my stand, praying that I'll be in the shade. Cause if the sun hits me, it's over. But finally we get this cold front coming in and I'm like, okay, this is it. Cause I got basically a day to hunt this cold front. After that, I'm on the road. And I'm, and what I'm thinking is, you know, I know there's other people who are looking for this buck.

• 58:29Speaker 04

  I I bet I've been this is part of the reason I'm hunting so hard. Because if I don't get him when this cold front hits, he's probably going to be moving more and someone else is going to put their tag on him. Which good for them. If that's what happens, good for them. But I'm working hard. When, by the way, I've never done much early season hunting before. Big fan now. Cause you can go out after work and you still got two hours of daylight. Which one of the cool things about urban hunting?

• 58:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's not like dark at five o'clock.

• 58:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, and your commute to your stand is five minutes. So you're just like, all right, well, drive over there, climb up. There's one property that I hunt where I'm I'm I drive into a parking lot at like a printing shop. And there's this chunk of woods over there and I just drive in, park in the back corner and I walk about 30 yards and I'm in my tree.

• 59:14Steven Rinella?

  You can see your car.

• 59:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can see my car. I can see people come out for their smoke breaks, you know? Like all these different variables that just make the urban stuff a little bit more complicated.

• 59:24Speaker 05

  You gotta do an episode, Urban Hunting, Steve.

• 59:26Speaker 04

  It's it's it's a trip.

• 59:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'd have, yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  It's a trip.

• 59:31Steven Rinella?

  I'd like, dude, I'd be ner- I'd be it'd be nerve wracking.

• 59:35Steven Rinella?

  I I'd be all all I'd be sitting there is being like, man, I don't want to trail a deer all through the neighborhood.

• 59:42Speaker 04

  I do know a guy, I do know a guy I used to work with, he was at the Attorney General's office who had a bad experience where somebody did not have fantastic arrow placement. And the and the deer, I think with an arrow in it came into his backyard. But that is, I've been doing this urban program, I think for 13 years. That's actually the only story I know.

• 1:00:01Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 1:00:01Speaker 04

  Of a bad thing.

• 1:00:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, because probably people take it, they're so aware of the problem, they they probably self limit.

• 1:00:09Speaker 04

  Again, yeah, yeah. And and everyone who's in this program, it's a it's a cool thing to be able to do. And so we're we're careful. You know? So cold front, it's raining. I go out in the morning. It's raining. I soak through my boots. I come in for a midday break. Go back out, put on my insulated boots instead. Climb back up. It's and then it just opens up. It's dump and rain. I'm like, okay, I'm he's not going to move in this kind of weather. So I'll climb out. 30 yards to my truck in this in this guy's driveway, sit in my truck for 45 minutes.

• 1:00:47Speaker 04

  It it it lightens up. It's still raining, but it lightens up. I'm like, all right, we got 45 minutes here. Go back out there, climb back up. You know, I'm sitting there for 10 minutes, look up, there he is. And What's he doing? Rubbing.

• 1:01:05Speaker 04

  And I'm like, okay, here we go. It's still, it's still, it's still coming down, but it's not, it's not terribly heavy. And the angle he's at, the spot he's at.

• 1:01:17Speaker 04

  I have to get, I'm in this really unique tree that like juts out. And so I have my climbing sticks up to here and then I can stand here, even though the tree keeps going. Yeah. I'm like, I need to get lower. So I get onto my top climbing stick. And I take like, I take like two steps down, I'm at full draw and I slip.

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  Now, I do saddle hunting. And so I'm always trying to keep my weight in my saddle. And so instead of falling, I just twist out around the tree. Yeah, I got you. At full draw, I'm just on, I'm just on a ride. Like a swing. Yes, yes. I'm just on, on this really exciting ride. And I, I quit swinging, I bumped the tree, but it's raining. And I, I didn't make much noise because again, there's no hook, my, my, my weight is already in the saddle. Yeah. It's kind of swing out. I stopped swinging, I let down. I just get myself back onto my climbing stick. I look over. He's still rubbing. No idea. Draw.

• 1:02:22Speaker 04

  That's it. How far? Twenty five, forty yards. Yeah. Still raining. So, and the best part about this, because you go back to, you know, the importance of just, you're hunting in an urban area. You really don't want to upset people. Yeah, yeah. I'm hunting at a property where the driveway has a retaining wall. That backs up to it. So I can back my pickup up, lower the tailgate. And without having to field dress the deer in the rain, out in this guy's yard, just drag him into. It's like a loading bay. Yes, a load, literal loading bay for 209 inch bucks.

• 1:03:02Steven Rinella?

  And then where'd you head?

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  Uh, my dad's place. He got me into hunting. It was pretty cool to take that, take him over. And I, you know, I've been like, well, I mean, Corinne too, but like, there were people that I was texting about this buck. Like, I was going hard. I've never, and I'm not a, this is the first time really that I had like a, people say, you know, target buck. I've never really had like a target buck. I'll kinda, I might, I might set up some cameras, kinda see who's around and be like, oh, I'd shoot that if I saw it, but I'm not naming things, you know? I usually go out in November. I'm busy.

• 1:03:35Steven Rinella?

  What'd you name him? Be honest with you.

• 1:03:37Speaker 04

  He didn't have a name, no.

• 1:03:39Steven Rinella?

  He was just like the buck, that one buck.

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, his name now is 209.

• 1:03:47Speaker 04

  But, like, you know, my, my dad was one of the people I'm texting with, right? Like, he, he got me into bow hunting when I was a teenager. And it was really cool to be able to pull up that picture that you've got up there is we are in his driveway. You know, and, uh, it was, and, and so my dad and I are just flipping out. We get to.

• 1:04:07Steven Rinella?

  That's like the biggest buck in the family history.

• 1:04:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my dad, so he, my dad's a first generation hunter. I'm almost certain, like, he might, he might've done squirrel. And obviously you go back enough generations and everybody's doing it, but my, my grandpa Bob, his dad, uh, wasn't a bow hunter anyways, wasn't a, wasn't a deer hunter. Uh, but my dad got me into bow hunting and we'd go out and do squirrel. We'd do a lot of fishing together too, but it was a pretty cool thing to share that with him.

• 1:04:33Steven Rinella?

  So did you just grab that thing and just drag it over to the retaining wall?

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:04:39Steven Rinella?

  And just out of there?

• 1:04:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. It's ra, it's, it's raining. I'm wet. I don't want to be out here any longer than I have to. And, and, I mean, you think about this stuff and it's like, look, you, you're gonna leave a gut pile out on a guy's property? No, you don't want to. Might you? Yeah, but when I can just do this, then I don't have to worry about it.

• 1:05:01Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah, I think discreet is the way to go.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  That's, especially if you want to get permission again for next year, you know?

• 1:05:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I want to jump to something, uh, for listeners, before we start recording.

• 1:05:13Steven Rinella?

  Rob Sand here shared with me that he, well, he could share with you, your taxidermy plan, which I think is not good.

• 1:05:20Speaker 04

  But, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want the taxidermist, and I'm, I'm open minded. But I shot this thing in the rain, and that, if you look at that picture, it's the, you know, the rack's got a nice shine on it.

• 1:05:32Steven Rinella?

  It's wet.

• 1:05:33Speaker 04

  And I talked to the taxidermist about making it look like that when it's done, like a, kind of like a lacquer on it to give it a shine. Steve thinks that's a dumb idea.

• 1:05:41Steven Rinella?

  I really, you can't, you'd be corrupting it. You can't paint the antlers.

• 1:05:49Speaker 04

  Well.

• 1:05:51Steven Rinella?

  Like, maybe you could rub a little, what's that stuff that when your mom, when you're like a little kid, your mom would spray it on the wood furniture?

• 1:05:58Speaker 04

  Old English or?

• 1:05:59Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:05:59Speaker 05

  Pine saw.

• 1:06:00Speaker 04

  Pine saw.

• 1:06:01Steven Rinella?

  Pine saw.

• 1:06:01Speaker 04

  Like, whatever.

• 1:06:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Speaker 04

  My mom would now then spray the wood furniture.

• 1:06:05Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  With the aerosol can?

• 1:06:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:07Speaker 04

  I mean, maybe now and then a touch, but it's, you don't want generate, your children.

• 1:06:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  Your children's children.

• 1:06:15Speaker 05

  Oh, I see.

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  Are like, what in the world is all over the antlers?

• 1:06:17Speaker 05

  In that picture, there's a nice shine.

• 1:06:19Speaker 04

  And they'll think, why did dad lacquer, paint?

• 1:06:22Steven Rinella?

  They're not gonna be like, oh, because it was raining out.

• 1:06:24Speaker 04

  No, they'll know the answer. They'll know the answer.

• 1:06:26Steven Rinella?

  They just won't.

• 1:06:27Speaker 04

  So I.

• 1:06:27Steven Rinella?

  It'll just be that you lacquered it, and it was dumb.

• 1:06:30Speaker 04

  I had a, I had one buck with a big Roman nose, and I had him recreate the Roman nose.

• 1:06:35Steven Rinella?

  Sure, right?

• 1:06:35Speaker 04

  Hundred percent.

• 1:06:36Steven Rinella?

  And.

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  I, I just, to me, that, it's not, when, when you, when you do a shoulder mount, it's not just, this is that deer, but it's, this is that moment.

• 1:06:45Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  And I always like to tell people, by the way, you want to see the rest of them, come on into the state auditor's office, I like to call it the public sector Cabela's. You walk in and you're like, oh, a lot of deer in here, and a buffalo, um, then a turkey. But to me, that mount is like, if you can have it be that moment, and bring that moment back, that's, that's unique.

• 1:07:08Steven Rinella?

  You know, an argument you could be laying on me that I would buy.

• 1:07:11Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:12Steven Rinella?

  Is if you were saying to me. Listen, man, it's my buck. That's how I want it.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:17Steven Rinella?

  Cause that's how I remember it.

• 1:07:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:19Steven Rinella?

  But I'm stuck thinking about posterity.

• 1:07:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:22Steven Rinella?

  Future generations being why grandpa lacquer the deer.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  What if you have like a spray bottle and every now and then you just miss.

• 1:07:32Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  Like a plant.

• 1:07:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like a plant. Yes. Now that you say to your friends, you say to your friends or future generations, just say, hey, you want to see what it'll look like when I shot it? And then get your spritz.

• 1:07:46Speaker 04

  Hey, I'll tell my, I'll tell my son, I'll tell my sons, hey buddy, you gotta water the plants and the buck. And the two oh nine. I love that.

• 1:07:55Steven Rinella?

  Cause everybody wants to see what it looked like when I got it in the rain.

• 1:07:57Speaker 04

  I love that. I love that idea. Yeah, that's the idea.

• 1:08:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  Well, see, they haven't tried it before and I don't know, you know, one of the things I was thinking about with, uh, Brooklyn sitting here is like, how much do you practice? You know, I need to find somebody who's willing to just, just run or dry, dry run in that before I do it on that one.

• 1:08:15Steven Rinella?

  Well, yeah, they can just take some other little.

• 1:08:17Speaker 04

  They should have some sheds, right?

• 1:08:18Steven Rinella?

  They'll take some racks and try to figure out a good.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:08:21Steven Rinella?

  John Hayes will help you with that.

• 1:08:22Speaker 04

  I don't know who that is.

• 1:08:23Steven Rinella?

  Hayes Taxidermy Studio.

• 1:08:24Speaker 04

  All right, all right.

• 1:08:25Steven Rinella?

  If you want to drive it like a million miles.

• 1:08:27Speaker 04

  I don't want to do that.

• 1:08:27Steven Rinella?

  He's very far from here.

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  It's in the wrong direction.

• 1:08:29Steven Rinella?

  It's at Scoville Taxidermy, Scoville Taxidermy in Warren County, Iowa.

• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  He's in the same state, but he's real far away from here.

• 1:08:35Steven Rinella?

  All right, all right. Um, if you factor in, so factor in, uh,

• 1:08:43Steven Rinella?

  factor in people that would be jealous, factor in people that would be just uncomfortable or opposed to hunting.

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Steven Rinella?

  And then factor in people that would just love it that you got that buck.

• 1:08:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:55Steven Rinella?

  Um, just getting the big buck. If you had it way out in your head, like here I am, I'm running for governor.

• 1:09:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Steven Rinella?

  Is getting a big buck net positive or net negative? Cause a lot of guys are gonna be like, he don't deserve that big buck.

• 1:09:07Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:09:07Steven Rinella?

  I should have gotten that big buck. I'm not voting for him.

• 1:09:10Speaker 04

  There is a guy that definitely was, was definitely saying that. Uh, one guy definitely saying that.

• 1:09:15Steven Rinella?

  And some people are like, how could he hurt that beautiful thing?

• 1:09:18Speaker 04

  Uh, correct. I just literally replied to somebody about that on threads today.

• 1:09:22Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:09:22Speaker 04

  You know, I was like, how could you do this? I mean, it's one thing if you're eating it, but you're just hunting for, I'm like, no, the law in the state of Iowa literally is you have to, you can't waste meat. It's just, there's an astounding level of lack of curiosity, right? About, about hunting. You know this.

• 1:09:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:37Speaker 04

  Like, people who just don't know, like, you, you have to, you have to eat the animal. It's the, literally the law in the state of Iowa. People don't know that. Salvage requirements. Yep, that too, that too. Um, I don't know how it breaks down. To me, I love hunting. Mm-hmm. I'm, I like to talk about things that I love. My social media presence, whatever channel you're on, it's probably Rob's Hand IA, although I think on TikTok, it's Rob's Hand Iowa. But my social media presence is like, I am a human being. I write, I, I will put up a post about the burrito that I had for lunch. I'll put up a post about going hunting. And then I'm going to put up a post about how dumb it was to make it so that the auditor can't look at misspent tax money. Yeah. You know, like, it's, it's just like, these are basically like me, they're my accounts.

• 1:10:20Speaker 04

  And I understand that some people, that might make them upset, but like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna not be who I am. Yeah. I'm gonna be who I am. And if some people don't like it, that's okay, but other people do. The other thing is, and I kinda like this, I love the idea of surprising people when it comes to partisanship expectations. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I like that. All those, all that stuff you talked about, right, was like, oh, look at this guy, he sounds like a Republican, but he's a Democrat. Do you know what I sound, those descriptions to me, I'm like, that just sounds like somebody from small town Iowa. Mm-hmm. Like, a lot of people in small town Iowa do that. Those, those values, those traditions, those don't belong to a political party. And, and I love the idea of being like, out there, is like, yeah, I am a Democrat, yeah, I do like to hunt.

• 1:11:05Speaker 04

  Now, I'm also out there as someone who thinks that we should end the special legal privileges of the Democratic and the Republican parties. You, I've yet to hear a good reason for why we are stuck having the lesser of two evils on every frickin' ballot. Mm-hmm. And feeling like, well, uh, you know, you've never done a thing for me, but boy, this one I really don't like, so I guess I have to vote for you, right? Yeah. But, uh, I, like, I was, I was an independent when I first registered to vote. I realized, uh, not long after that, that in Iowa, to vote in the primary, you have to join a party. It's a closed, it's called closed primary, right? You got it, closed primary. Can I swear on this program?

• 1:11:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like, don't say anything crazy.

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  Look, I just won't swear then.

• 1:11:50Steven Rinella?

  No, no, you swear a little bit.

• 1:11:52Speaker 04

  That's hogwash. It's a terrible idea. This is America.

• 1:11:55Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you're gonna be like, it was BS.

• 1:11:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was gonna say, it is BS.

• 1:11:59Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, hogwash is good.

• 1:12:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. You're telling me, that's a less common one for Iowa. We got a lot of hogwash. We got less horsepucky. You're telling me in America, where we celebrate Independence Day, we're gonna tell independent voters that they are less equal and they don't get to participate in our democracy? That's hogwash, right?

• 1:12:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Speaker 04

  But that's what it is. We have these, we have these close primaries. Guys, we have two private clubs that run the United States of America. That's what it is. It is absolutely wrong. And I think we should change it. But I, I did. I registered as a Democrat because I think Jesus is for the little guy. And my perception, particularly at the time of the Democratic Party, is that was the party for the little guy. I'm trying to make it stay that way. And I also remember Clinton, when he was president, as a Democrat, balancing the budget and using the surplus to, in part, to pay down the debt. And I was like a teenager and I just remember thinking like, oh, thanks, because I don't want to have to pay for all that someday.

• 1:12:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:53Speaker 04

  You know? And those are the reasons, basically, that I registered as a Democrat for the most part. Also, as a guy that liked to hunt and fish, I was like, well, they, they want to keep the places I like to hunt and fish clean and pure. And that's good, too.

• 1:13:04Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:05Speaker 04

  But that doesn't change the fact that like, why, why should I have to join a private club to exercise my sacred right to vote? That's messed up.

• 1:13:12Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. That's one of the, the thing I talk about very, uh, when I talk about my own politics often, or I talk about sort of the politics of hunting and fishing. I often describe a,

• 1:13:26Steven Rinella?

  to put it negatively, I'll say you always have to be paranoid.

• 1:13:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:30Steven Rinella?

  To put it positively, which I never do, it would be that each side helps you out in some ways.

• 1:13:35Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:13:36Steven Rinella?

  But, yes, when it comes to environmental protections, clean air, clean water, right? Habitat preservation. We find a lot of friends in the Democratic Party.

• 1:13:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:51Steven Rinella?

  When it comes to, uh, acceptance, support of the culture of hunting.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:13:58Steven Rinella?

  Firearms rights.

• 1:13:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:14:01Steven Rinella?

  People that are kind of like, out there and proud of outdoor heritage.

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:14:07Steven Rinella?

  We find a lot of friends in the Republican Party.

• 1:14:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:14:09Steven Rinella?

  But at the same time, I just, I don't want to use the word hate. I do not like, I don't like the two-party system.

• 1:14:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Steven Rinella?

  And it's not even the system that bugs me. What bugs me is the way the system enforces itself.

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:14:27Steven Rinella?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:14:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:14:28Steven Rinella?

  The way you have to, it drives people insane.

• 1:14:32Speaker 04

  It does.

• 1:14:33Steven Rinella?

  If you don't take all your views and fit them into the box.

• 1:14:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, get in the box.

• 1:14:38Steven Rinella?

  And when you see someone in the political world, when you see them, it's painful to watch.

• 1:14:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Steven Rinella?

  When you see someone and they get to the point where they go, man, I need to start pretending I think a thing I don't think.

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:14:53Steven Rinella?

  Because here I am in this complex world and I need to boxify.

• 1:14:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:58Steven Rinella?

  So it's not, it's not even the parties I have a problem with. It's not the two-party system I have a party with. I have a problem with how organized. And so.

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  There's a, there's a, there's a reinforcing culture around the two-party system.

• 1:15:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  And I, I say that at every one of my town halls, we go in hard on how broken that system is. Because it tells us there's only two ways to think, to your point.

• 1:15:23Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Speaker 04

  We know that's ridiculous. There's literally five people in that room. That's five ways to think right now. And so we start these things out. We do, you know, we say the system is broken. You've all been invited here to help change it. So raise your hand if you're a Republican. We clap for the Republicans who are in attendance. Raise your hand if you're an independent voter. We clap for the independent voters who are in attendance. I then say, I'm all big on fairness, so let's clap for the Democrats too. All right. And then, and then let's prove to ourselves, but also to everyone else who wants us to hate each other, because then we're easier to control. Let's prove to everyone that we all, despite our differences, can work together. Let's sing the first verse of America the Beautiful.

• 1:16:03Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:16:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so a hundred times across the state of Iowa this year, we did that. I don't lead it. The point is, we all sing. My, my microphone is like, you know, down by my knees. And it's a wonderful moment for people to just have this, hold on a second. That's right, we can just do this differently.

• 1:16:22Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Speaker 04

  And usually by the time that's over, there's one person in the audience you can find who's having an experience. Like feeling something, right?

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  That's what I want us to push towards. I mean, I look at what we did, what they did in the state of Iowa. And I'm like, they literally are so comfortable thinking that this is going to be one party control forever. That they passed a law that auditors around the United States of all political persuasions said will increase waste front abuse. Because they think they own this thing.

• 1:16:51Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:53Speaker 04

  The, the two-party system fundamentally is broken and you pick, pick an issue, right? Could be water quality, could be second amendment. Part of the issues around that issue are where they are and they are the magnitude that they are. Because the incentive in the political system is for people to throw bombs at each other and have a food fight. Instead of actually sitting down and saying, hey, let's figure out how we're going to solve this problem. And if you break down those special legal privileges that the Democratic and the Republican parties have. And you give us a real market for political candidates, we'll start to see changes where we are in more control. We, the people are in more control of the politicians rather than feeling like we're sort of stuck into supporting them.

• 1:17:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  That's my, that's my number one thing. Any other issue gets fixed more easily when you have a system that's actually responsive to the people.

• 1:17:43Steven Rinella?

  What does it look like when you're doing this as you, as you campaign? I'm not, I'm not even clear on how, you, you guys haven't got to the primary yet.

• 1:17:52Speaker 04

  No, next June.

• 1:17:54Steven Rinella?

  How many people are in that?

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  There's a, well, we'll find out because the, the qualifying for the ballot thing. Like filing your paperwork to get on the ballot for the primary happens in like February, February, March.

• 1:18:09Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:18:10Speaker 04

  So maximum three, uh, one of them is.

• 1:18:13Steven Rinella?

  Maximum three?

• 1:18:14Speaker 04

  Well, who have announced?

• 1:18:15Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:18:16Speaker 04

  There could be any number, but three on the Democratic side have announced. One's a nice guy named Paul that's announced for many offices and I'm not sure that he's ever collected enough signatures. Uh, the others are lovely lady named Julie that I've known for years and, uh, I think the world of and, uh, and then there's me.

• 1:18:35Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:18:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:37Steven Rinella?

  And so this all plays out in November.

• 1:18:40Speaker 04

  So, so primary in June, um, and then, yeah, same date as the midterms for the, for the, uh, the election. And then on the Republican side, there's five candidates over there, I think.

• 1:18:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:50Speaker 04

  Close to five, if it's not five.

• 1:18:52Steven Rinella?

  Corinne sent me a thing where you, you draw, you were drawing a distinction between politics and public service.

• 1:18:58Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:18:58Steven Rinella?

  What's your take on that?

• 1:18:59Speaker 04

  Well, it's, it's kind of the piece of what we're talking about here, right? Is, you know,

• 1:19:05Speaker 04

  politics is passing a law that everybody who's an expert in auditing agrees is going to make it harder to find misspent money.

• 1:19:11Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:12Speaker 04

  Public service is the six Republicans in the Iowa House that voted against that despite the fact their party wanted them to support it.

• 1:19:18Steven Rinella?

  Good.

• 1:19:18Speaker 04

  Good for the six of them. They stood up to do the right thing. I'm proud of every one of them.

• 1:19:23Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:24Speaker 04

  And I, and I look at every one of them and I see, you know, yeah, we can have disagreements, but you, you showed some courage on that day. Good for you.

• 1:19:31Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:32Speaker 04

  But, public service is John McCain, taking the microphone away from that woman back in the debates, when she was like, you know.

• 1:19:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:40Speaker 04

  Um, saying, I don't remember what it was specifically, but like some kind of conspiracy theory about Obama. He takes a microphone, he says, ma'am, and he just sort of says, he says something positive about his opponent. That's public service.

• 1:19:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:52Speaker 04

  What you're saying is.

• 1:19:54Steven Rinella?

  That dude was a class act, man.

• 1:19:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that's, that to me is, that's, that's public service. So much of the push is around party. Show me people who want to do it right. You know, show me people who are there not to be a Democrat or a Republican, but to try to do the right thing, figure out what the truth is, and then do the right thing. Those are the people that I want to work with.

• 1:20:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:18Speaker 04

  I don't care if they're Democrats or Republicans or independents or whatever. I want to work with people who just are focused on like, I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to be right. Well, here's, here's a good example. Um, um, I'll, uh, toot my own horn here. I got elected in 2018. First decision was whom I'm going to put in the two highest positions in the auditor's office. Uh, I picked an independent and a Republican who had made campaign contributions to my opponent. Oh. Yeah. So I put them in those highest positions because I want to be a state auditor that's serving the whole state. Yeah. And I want everybody to know that whether or not you supported me is not the determinant of whether or not I'm going to listen to you. Got it.

• 1:21:01Speaker 04

  And I am here to serve everybody. Now, people who like politics, they're like, Rob, that's the wrong way to do this. You're supposed to punish the people who oppose you. What are you doing? You're crazy. And my attitude to that is like, well, I'm not, I'm not trying to, you know, accumulate all the power. I'm trying to just do the right thing. Like the concept of statesmanship, right? Like, okay, the election's over. I won. Neener, neener. Yeah. Too bad for you, but come on board. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. You can be a part of this too. I want your input. Every once in a while, I'm almost slightly incorrect.

• 1:21:36Speaker 07

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• 1:22:07Steven Rinella?

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• 1:23:45Steven Rinella?

  What's your family think about this? Is your wife sweating it if you win?

• 1:23:50Speaker 04

  You know, it's a great question. She understands. She's a believer in it. She understands why it's important. She thinks we need a new direction in the state of Iowa.

• 1:24:04Speaker 04

  She doesn't love it. She's got her own. Actually, she's a, her, her, she runs her family business, which actually is all about improving the efficiency of the food system. You'd appreciate it. I like to describe it as using the, every part of the Peravio Buffalo.

• 1:24:18Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  So they, they take materials from slaughterhouses around the United States and figure out something they could do with it.

• 1:24:26Steven Rinella?

  Oh, really?

• 1:24:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. It's like rendering and whatnot?

• 1:24:30Speaker 04

  One of, one of the things they do is rendering.

• 1:24:32Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 1:24:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:33Steven Rinella?

  No kidding?

• 1:24:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Steven Rinella?

  And she works there?

• 1:24:35Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. Running it. And so, and so, you know, she.

• 1:24:38Steven Rinella?

  Do you know politicians always say they're gonna ask their wife or whatever? They're gonna talk to their wife, they're gonna ask their wife. Her. Do you actually go do that? Do they do, do they go say like, hey, can I run for governor?

• 1:24:48Speaker 04

  The distinction I would make is the people who are like, we sat down with our children and had a family discussion. I'm always like, really? Your children?

• 1:24:54Steven Rinella?

  We sent our kids out for family discussions.

• 1:24:56Speaker 04

  That's, see.

• 1:24:57Steven Rinella?

  Where I was like, you guys gotta go in the other room, we're gonna have a family discussion.

• 1:24:59Speaker 04

  How old are yours?

• 1:25:01Steven Rinella?

  Uh, my daughter's up, I got a, I got a ten. My daughter's thirteen in a couple of days and I got a fifteen.

• 1:25:06Speaker 04

  All right, okay. So we got two boys, they're nine and eleven.

• 1:25:09Steven Rinella?

  We have the family discussion and they come in and we tell them what it was. There, that's. We tell them what was decided.

• 1:25:13Speaker 04

  That's a lot closer, that's a lot closer. And we'll explain why this decision was made, right? And why like, no, we're not going to Disneyland and there's a thousand reasons why, but the biggest one is we don't like Disneyland. Our, our boys actually thankfully have never asked to go to Disneyland, but, but no, like, will she and I talk about this? Absolutely.

• 1:25:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:30Speaker 04

  You know, that's, it's a big decision. And same with running for state auditor too, you know, lower, lower, uh, office, but still a big decision. I, when, when politicians are like, we sat down and we listened to our kids, I mean, like, really? You let a nine-year-old decide like what you're gonna do with your life?

• 1:25:46Steven Rinella?

  You're gonna run for higher.

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, or, or any office, any office?

• 1:25:50Steven Rinella?

  Nah, no.

• 1:25:52Speaker 04

  Right. City council. I'd just be like, well, my, my kid, my kid is a child, they don't understand what this means. This is a big decision and it's important. We will let them know what we've decided.

• 1:26:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:04Speaker 04

  Similar to you. Yeah. And no, they're not in the room. Cause if they're in the room when Christine and I are talking about it,

• 1:26:12Speaker 04

  then they're gonna have input regardless.

• 1:26:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, for sure. Man, the part about it that really gets me is, uh, maybe it hasn't happened yet, but God, you gotta get some thick skin, man.

• 1:26:22Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:24Steven Rinella?

  Cause toward the end, dude,

• 1:26:27Steven Rinella?

  they get ugly.

• 1:26:28Speaker 04

  They do. They do.

• 1:26:30Steven Rinella?

  They're gonna be like, his buck wasn't that big.

• 1:26:32Speaker 04

  It measured two oh seven.

• 1:26:36Speaker 04

  They're like, not net. That's right, that's right. He's telling you it was 209, but that's gross.

• 1:26:45Speaker 04

  And we don't mean. Rob Sand.

• 1:26:49Speaker 04

  We need girl score. A lot of that stuff, you know, I spent seven years in in courtrooms. Plenty of, plenty of criminal defendants and defense attorneys, you know, telling people I'm wrong about this or did a terrible job on that, that's okay. I've run two campaigns already, I'm accustomed to it to a certain degree. Uh, but then there's also, I mean, the ultimate thing to me is just the serenity prayer. I can't, I can't control what other people say about me. This is a great rule. Tell me the serenity prayer? Uh, you know, and I'll probably screw it up, but it's something to the effect of God grant me the. Oh, yeah, yeah. The courage to change the things I can, the wisdom, no, the serenity to accept the things I cannot. And the wisdom to know the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't control what other people say about me. I know they're gonna lie about me, they're lying about me already.

• 1:27:34Speaker 04

  All I could do is live my life and make my own decisions and be honest with people about what I believe and what I think we need to be doing. And if they pick me, great, if they don't, that's their right. Yeah, you could be like, screw y'all, I'm going hunting. That's right, dude. There are many days where, uh,

• 1:27:52Speaker 04

  let's not even get into it. So would you, would you be able to be like, would you be able to be the hunting, like a hunting governor? I mean, I just would be. I, so, so both of my jobs as both state auditor and as a prosecutor, I can find ways of sitting quiet in a, in a, in a tree stand to be productive. Yeah, yeah. Um, back in the day when I was prosecuting, I'd have to like maybe listen to a witness's interview. Well, I'd go listen with one, one, one earpiece in while I'm in a tree stand. Reading, I can read audit reports while I'm in a tree stand on a tablet. You know, on a, and that works fine. I can read them printed out. So there's a, there's a way to balance things. It's also just a really good place to do some thinking.

• 1:28:36Speaker 04

  Just you're in the, you're in the woods, you're by yourself. Now, maybe you're 30 feet from a parking lot, but it's not that different.

• 1:28:44Steven Rinella?

  What are some environmental issues that, that, I mean, I know you got, I, I think so often a policy on, at federal level.

• 1:28:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, sure. Sure. Sure.

• 1:28:54Steven Rinella?

  Well, local, like I think about things in my state. I think about things in Alaska a lot, and I think federal. So. So you, whatever you bring up, I'm probably not going to know what it is, but give me an example of, um, of a habitat issue. An environmental issue that's going on where you're at, how you look at it, how, how you talk about it to people.

• 1:29:19Speaker 04

  We've got a, we've got a, a, a very much a percolating issue with water quality right now. We've got a water quality problem in Iowa. Um, record beach closures this summer. Um, very high nitrate levels.

• 1:29:31Steven Rinella?

  Just ag runoff.

• 1:29:33Speaker 04

  A lot of it is ag runoff. It's not exclusively ag runoff. And the important thing I always try to get people to remember is. Farmers are signing up for conservation programs and getting turned away.

• 1:29:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Speaker 04

  Cause what, these politicians won't put in the funding.

• 1:29:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  And to me, that's a problem.

• 1:29:49Steven Rinella?

  That's been a huge, that, that's federal in some degree.

• 1:29:52Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:29:52Steven Rinella?

  And that's been a huge headache, man.

• 1:29:54Speaker 04

  Yep. So, so some of it's federal, some of it's at the state level.

• 1:29:56Steven Rinella?

  Funding it, not, not opening it up.

• 1:29:58Speaker 04

  Farmers, and this is survey after survey of, of farmers and growers and producers in the state of Iowa. They, they care about their impact on, on water quality. They care about their impact on the environment. They, they want to do better. Survey after survey. But 90% of farm income goes to the biggest 10% of farms. A lot of farmers are just scraping by.

• 1:30:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:20Speaker 04

  And so they're putting together a plan saying, hey, I'll, I'll put. My money into this plan, here's what I'm gonna do on, on, on this acreage, on this parcel. Here's what I'm gonna do over there, but I'm applying for the cost share, cuz I, I can't do this whole thing by myself.

• 1:30:34Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:35Speaker 04

  And politicians aren't funding the programs enough. And that, of course, then, the farmer's like, well, then I can't do that. And all the rest of us are saying, well, then, again, we don't see the improvements in water quality cuz it's not moving fast enough.

• 1:30:46Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, so they, they don't kill the program, they just don't move the money to it.

• 1:30:50Speaker 04

  Right, it's still there, and, and they can say, oh, we put this much into this program this year, but what they don't tell you is actually that much was applied for. People wanna do it.

• 1:30:59Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:00Speaker 04

  And instead, they run around and try to divide us from each other cuz we got this, again, broken two-choice system, where they just try to say, oh, if so-and-so is talking about water quality, that means they're, uh, anti-this or anti-that.

• 1:31:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:12Speaker 04

  No, actually, a lot of the people who are farming, who are growing, who are producing, they too wanna help improve water quality. It's politicians that aren't giving them the money to do it oftentimes.

• 1:31:21Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm. So putting, uh, so acreage into conservation programs.

• 1:31:27Speaker 04

  It could be that, I mean, it could be putting in terraces, um, lots of different practices.

• 1:31:32Steven Rinella?

  Also like improvements.

• 1:31:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, it could be improvements that just help water quality. I mean, maybe it's, um, we are, we are forty-ninth in public land, uh, Iowa is, so maybe it's having more public land, but maybe it's actually just having more.

• 1:31:44Steven Rinella?

  Forty-ninth?

• 1:31:45Speaker 04

  Forty-ninth.

• 1:31:46Steven Rinella?

  I wouldn't have guessed that.

• 1:31:47Speaker 04

  I think eighty-five percent of Iowa is farmed.

• 1:31:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:52Speaker 04

  Or used in some way for agricultural production. Um, so I'd, I'd like us to improve that. Um, you got a lot of folks out there.

• 1:32:00Steven Rinella?

  Access issues.

• 1:32:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, there's a couple, uh, there's a couple of Facebook, uh, bow hunter groups that I'm, I've been active in for a long time, and, uh, you always get a little bit of extra credit, you know, if you're out there on public land to fill that tag.

• 1:32:12Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:13Speaker 04

  Um, but we still just don't have that much by comparison to every other state.

• 1:32:17Steven Rinella?

  Do you guys have good stream access laws? If you get into a river, can you, can you travel and anchor and wait, or?

• 1:32:22Speaker 04

  That's actually a great question. You can travel.

• 1:32:27Speaker 04

  I don't know about anchoring. You can, you could wade, I don't know to what degree.

• 1:32:34Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:32:35Speaker 04

  I, I would imagine, because I'm just thinking mostly about like literally the size of a lot of rivers in Iowa. We got some of the best trout fishing in Midwest, actually, up in my hometown in Decorah. A lot of these streams are teeny tiny. I mean, you're talking about like, nobody was a fly fisher when I was growing up in northeast Iowa. Cause your stream is two and a half feet wide.

• 1:32:56Steven Rinella?

  Got it, yeah.

• 1:32:57Speaker 04

  So you're, you're, you're standing there just plinking a spinner in, in reeling it up.

• 1:33:02Steven Rinella?

  You're not float tripping.

• 1:33:03Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 1:33:05Steven Rinella?

  I'm with you.

• 1:33:05Speaker 04

  And so waiting is like, you know, there's not even, why would you, the, the only thing you're gonna do by waiting is let trout, trout know that somebody's in that, in that stream with them.

• 1:33:16Steven Rinella?

  That, that, the stream access thing and the water access thing is, that's not something I discussed when I was, grew up in Michigan, but it's a huge issue out here.

• 1:33:24Speaker 04

  Sure, sure.

• 1:33:25Steven Rinella?

  With the, with the larger rivers and whether you get on them, you know?

• 1:33:28Speaker 04

  And I've been, I've been vocal about the corner crossing stuff too. I mean, that's, that's like such a no brainer to me.

• 1:33:33Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:34Speaker 04

  Like, look, no one is doing anything to your property. I'm gonna go from this public parcel here to that one, that they touch each other. I, I can't imagine the attitude of someone who says like, no, I, I don't want you to do that.

• 1:33:49Steven Rinella?

  Well, I'll tell you, the court, the courts all agree with you.

• 1:33:51Speaker 04

  Good.

• 1:33:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:52Speaker 04

  But it's not, it hasn't been, is it done?

• 1:33:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's done, it's done in that. Um, the ninth, so it was appealed and appealed and appealed.

• 1:34:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:03Steven Rinella?

  The Ninth Circuit Court, so the federal, Ninth Federal Circuit Court, ruled that it's legal.

• 1:34:11Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:34:11Steven Rinella?

  They tried to appeal to the Supreme Court.

• 1:34:13Speaker 04

  They wouldn't hear it.

• 1:34:14Steven Rinella?

  Supreme Court said, feels settled to us.

• 1:34:17Speaker 04

  Great.

• 1:34:17Steven Rinella?

  They didn't take the case.

• 1:34:18Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 1:34:19Steven Rinella?

  What has yet to happen is the Ninth is Wyoming.

• 1:34:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, it only covers, that's only good law.

• 1:34:25Steven Rinella?

  New Mexico, what?

• 1:34:27Speaker 04

  But it, you can rely on it still.

• 1:34:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but the Tenth, like, I, I guess what would happen is, right now, um, it'll take a little time to see.

• 1:34:38Steven Rinella?

  If people corner cross and what prosecutor's attitude because theoretically a prosecutor could still try to prosecute it.

• 1:34:44Speaker 04

  You could.

• 1:34:44Steven Rinella?

  I don't think there's a prosecutor in the state of Montana that is going to take that case.

• 1:34:48Speaker 04

  I would hope not.

• 1:34:49Steven Rinella?

  There's no way.

• 1:34:49Speaker 04

  I would think you'd have more people upset with you about it than you would have happy with you.

• 1:34:53Steven Rinella?

  And why would you want to invite what happened down in Wyoming?

• 1:34:55Speaker 04

  Well, and then especially what you're going to end up with is like, okay, look, technically speaking, the Ninth Circuit decision doesn't apply outside of the Ninth Circuit, but we all know it exists. We all know the Supreme Court denied certification.

• 1:35:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Speaker 04

  So are you as the prosecutor going to put all these resources into a case that you think at the end of the day, you're probably going to lose?

• 1:35:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And in the case, they relied on this unlawful enclosures act, which is an old grazing act, unlawful enclosures act.

• 1:35:23Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:35:24Steven Rinella?

  That was cited and, and that applies here.

• 1:35:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:28Steven Rinella?

  That applies outside of the Ninth Circuit.

• 1:35:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:30Steven Rinella?

  So it's like, um, there's still some level of confusion. It would have been kind of cool if the Supreme Court had taken it.

• 1:35:39Speaker 04

  Yeah. On the other hand.

• 1:35:40Steven Rinella?

  It could have been kind of not.

• 1:35:41Speaker 04

  We'll take the W.

• 1:35:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Yeah. It could have been kind of cool if they want to just making it like just absolute law of the land.

• 1:35:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:49Steven Rinella?

  Instead, just the ramifications are going to be slower.

• 1:35:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. It's still though, I guess I'd, and, and that's, you know, and that's the other trick too. Uh, cause if you're, if a lot of the folks that are out there hunting public land is because they don't have access to private land.

• 1:36:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:02Speaker 04

  And so they're not the kind of person who's like, sue me. I've got the resources to fight this out.

• 1:36:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:07Speaker 04

  Now I'm, I'm betting that there's, you know, uh, hunting advocacy organizations that would cover their legal expenses, but do they know that when they're standing there at that corner and they want to do that crossing?

• 1:36:18Steven Rinella?

  That's what happened in Wyoming, but no, they didn't know that.

• 1:36:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:21Steven Rinella?

  We spent, we spent money on it. A lot of people spent money on it.

• 1:36:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. I listened to the, I like the, uh, nature is nonpartisan guy you guys had on.

• 1:36:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:29Speaker 04

  Backer.

• 1:36:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. A lot of stuff that he says is kind of like in, in, in the same thinking as the sort of anti two-party system.

• 1:36:37Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:37Speaker 04

  Approach. Just like, we need to break, break, break down the boxes. Just get people to the point where you are free to think the way you think. Tell people what you believe. The other benefit of it too, is I actually think you get, the politicians have more of incentive to be honest.

• 1:36:54Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:55Speaker 04

  About, uh, their opponents and to be, uh, truthful. Because if you have, Alaska actually is a great example of this. They have a reformed system. They have a, a single open primary.

• 1:37:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:08Speaker 04

  Public primary. Every, every candidate is on it. Every voter, including the independents, can walk in. You just vote for your one favorite. And they send the top four or five to the general election and then, and then they do ranked choice voting. The other thing I think is pretty simple is approval voting. Here are four candidates. Vote for as many of them as you approve of.

• 1:37:27Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:37:28Speaker 04

  And so if you and me and Corinne are running for office against each other. And we have approval voting. I'm going to inherently understand that each of you have a bunch of people that really want you to win.

• 1:37:38Speaker 04

  But some of those people will also support me. If I behave in a way that attracts their support.

• 1:37:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:46Speaker 04

  So instead of being like.

• 1:37:47Steven Rinella?

  Corinne is the scum of the earth.

• 1:37:49Speaker 04

  You know, I'm going to be like, I like Corinne.

• 1:37:50Steven Rinella?

  Corinne all but deserves to die.

• 1:37:52Speaker 04

  That's right. Yes. Right.

• 1:37:54Steven Rinella?

  But I don't want to take it too far. She's out to destroy your way of life.

• 1:37:58Speaker 04

  You know, if, if instead I highlight areas of agreement, if I tell you, you know, like, I, I. Oh, we've texted for years. It was so fun to actually, you know, if I say positive things about somebody.

• 1:38:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:09Speaker 04

  Instead of running them into the ground, then more of your supporters will also support me. And maybe it's only 30%, but if I can get 30% of your supporters to also back me instead of 5%, that helps me win. So we could have a system. It actually incentivizes civility, honesty, right? Cause if I'm, if I'm lying, all your supporters are going to be like, that's a lie. He's terrible. I don't approve of him.

• 1:38:33Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:38:34Speaker 04

  Break down these walls. Make politicians behave like normal people. Do that. And we can start really solving a lot of problems, I think.

• 1:38:44Steven Rinella?

  After, I've been more careful about this.

• 1:38:49Steven Rinella?

  But after Charlie Kirk was killed.

• 1:38:52Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:38:52Steven Rinella?

  I started being like, now if I'm saying something, if I'm talking about a politician. I'll be like, man, he loves his country. He loves his family.

• 1:39:02Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:02Steven Rinella?

  I don't agree with him about Buffalo.

• 1:39:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:39:06Speaker 04

  It is.

• 1:39:06Steven Rinella?

  I'm like.

• 1:39:07Speaker 04

  I think that's.

• 1:39:08Steven Rinella?

  I like, I don't see eye to eye on that, but let's just clarify.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  That's right. I think.

• 1:39:12Steven Rinella?

  God loves America.

• 1:39:13Speaker 04

  I think that's a step in the right direction, but you don't see people do it very often.

• 1:39:18Speaker 04

  And this is, you know, what's funny too is like, I mentioned those, those bow hunting Facebook groups I'm in. They're like the, the two most supportive Facebook groups I've ever seen. Just people being like, good for you. You know, someone will put a post up, right? And it, and it'll be someone who's like, man, I've been hunting for three years. I finally got my first deer. It'll be a spike buck. And like every single, every single comment, and maybe this is an Iowa thing.

• 1:39:43Steven Rinella?

  They don't want, they don't feel the need to tear them down.

• 1:39:46Speaker 04

  No, everyone's like, dude, way to go. Way to be persistent. Good for you. Like ordinary people, we live in a world, part of human nature is working together, supporting each other. And you look at the comments on these posts and these Facebook groups for hunting and everybody is in there. They're not being like, I would have shot that out of giving him four years. Every, to a T, they're all just like, way to go. Shoot what makes you proud. If you're happy with that buck, we love that buck. Way to go. Good for you.

• 1:40:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:17Speaker 04

  I was actually, I just, I just saw this article about, they just did, uh, I can't remember if it's like LIDAR, but somebody up in the Andes found funnels.

• 1:40:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:26Speaker 04

  Did you see that?

• 1:40:26Steven Rinella?

  I was reading about that.

• 1:40:27Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:40:28Steven Rinella?

  They, they found them under Lake Erie.

• 1:40:30Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, no way. All right. So we're talking like tens of thousands of years ago, human beings are building funnels to hunt.

• 1:40:37Steven Rinella?

  I, I think I said Erie. I think I said Erie.

• 1:40:39Speaker 04

  You didn't say.

• 1:40:40Steven Rinella?

  I was supposed to say Huron, but please continue.

• 1:40:42Speaker 04

  All right. All right.

• 1:40:43Steven Rinella?

  One of them.

• 1:40:43Speaker 04

  You're a Michigan guy.

• 1:40:44Steven Rinella?

  One of them lays by my house.

• 1:40:45Speaker 04

  I'm, yeah, right. I'm like, I'm like, I know which one Michigan is. But that's human history. That's human nature. People, tens of thousands of years ago, building walls together to help funnel animals into the right and easiest place to kill them. Right. I, before I did my buffalo hunt, I read American Buffalo. Love reading that book.

• 1:41:05Steven Rinella?

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:41:05Speaker 04

  But a piece of that was so fun, learning about, cause a lot of this I didn't know. You know, pointing them to the, now, and now of course I'm blanking on it, you know? Getting them to the hill where there's the drop on the other side.

• 1:41:16Steven Rinella?

  The jump site.

• 1:41:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, but they're working together, right? To make the job easier for everybody later on. But yet here we are with this political system that incentivizes anger and division and hatred and lying.

• 1:41:28Speaker 04

  We're so much better than it.

• 1:41:31Speaker 04

  It's a mess.

• 1:41:33Steven Rinella?

  How, um, this can be hard for you to answer, honestly. There's a merit, there's a piece of marital advice.

• 1:41:40Speaker 04

  Uh oh.

• 1:41:42Steven Rinella?

  Yanni, my buddy Yanni introduced me to it. Let's say you're fighting with your wife.

• 1:41:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:48Steven Rinella?

  And then you realize you're fighting about something you don't really care about.

• 1:41:51Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:53Steven Rinella?

  So what they'll do is, let's say me and Krenner are having a big fight about where this microphone would be.

• 1:41:58Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:59Steven Rinella?

  And I realized at some point, I'm arguing like hell, but I just like, I honestly don't, it doesn't really matter.

• 1:42:05Speaker 04

  Why do you care?

• 1:42:06Steven Rinella?

  But I'm just here.

• 1:42:06Speaker 04

  Why am I arguing?

• 1:42:07Steven Rinella?

  I'm just here arguing.

• 1:42:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:08Steven Rinella?

  And I love my argument.

• 1:42:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:42:11Steven Rinella?

  And I would wind up saying, it's a three out of 10 for me.

• 1:42:16Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 1:42:17Steven Rinella?

  It's a three out of 10.

• 1:42:18Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:42:19Steven Rinella?

  And Kren's like, well, it's a 10.

• 1:42:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, and you're like.

• 1:42:21Steven Rinella?

  I'm at a 10.

• 1:42:22Speaker 04

  And then you're moving your argument.

• 1:42:23Steven Rinella?

  On that microphone. And I'm like, okay.

• 1:42:26Speaker 04

  That is a great idea, right? I'm gonna try to put that into practice.

• 1:42:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:31Steven Rinella?

  Um, but you gotta be honest, but that's not the thing you gotta be honest about.

• 1:42:34Speaker 04

  Shoot. I thought I was getting off easy.

• 1:42:36Steven Rinella?

  No, no. If you set yourself, like, you put all this time, 18 months and all that.

• 1:42:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:41Steven Rinella?

  How much do you get in your head? Um, how much do you get in your head about, like, what if you fail?

• 1:42:50Speaker 04

  Not very much. I just work the hardest I can every day, again, serenity prayer.

• 1:42:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:56Speaker 04

  You know, what if I fail? I don't know. I'll think about that if I fail. I've never been.

• 1:43:00Steven Rinella?

  See, you don't sit around being all depressed about that idea.

• 1:43:02Speaker 04

  I've never been a big anticipator.

• 1:43:04Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:43:04Speaker 04

  You know, like, there's people who, like, oh, what's it gonna be like when I this, when I that? For, for big things and for little things.

• 1:43:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Speaker 04

  I don't know. I'll find out when I get there. So this, the, this buck, first, when, two minutes into honey light, when I saw him, I, I typically do not get buck fever. Um, I've taken, I want to say eight Pope and Young bucks. It's funny because I capped out. I've got three between in the one fif- four, four in the one fifties, like one fifty-three to one fifty-nine, four. I've been stuck for years, right? But every one of those bucks, I've never gotten really the shakes.

• 1:43:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:43Speaker 04

  This buck I did. I wasn't thinking like, oh, I wonder if I'll get buck fever finally when this buck shows up. It just happened.

• 1:43:50Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:51Speaker 04

  And then again, the second time when I'm putting up the tree stand, it just happened. Third time rolled around, cool as a cucumber.

• 1:43:57Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:43:58Speaker 04

  But I've just never been someone who's like, well, what if I this or what if I that? Life, life's gonna happen. By the time I get there, I'll figure it out. What I can do right now today is put all of my effort into making sure the outcome that I want is the outcome that happens.

• 1:44:12Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:44:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:13Steven Rinella?

  Well, man, I hope that, uh, you come out of this, whatever happens.

• 1:44:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Steven Rinella?

  I hope you come out of this with the same spirit that you have now.

• 1:44:24Speaker 04

  I appreciate that. I hope I do too.

• 1:44:27Steven Rinella?

  I'd hate to see something bad happen to you.

• 1:44:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:29Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna sit there watching now on election night. I'm gonna be watching.

• 1:44:32Speaker 04

  All right, all right. Well, uh, we're feeling pretty good. The only, the only poll we've seen has us up by two, but those aren't worth a whole lot. A lot's gonna happen between now and, uh, a year from now.

• 1:44:44Steven Rinella?

  Tons, man.

• 1:44:44Speaker 04

  So we'll see where it goes.

• 1:44:46Steven Rinella?

  On up by two in the primary.

• 1:44:47Speaker 04

  No, no, in the gen- for they tested, this is a poll that tested me versus sort of the Republican frontrunner or perceived frontrunner. Who knows who it is at the end of the day?

• 1:44:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:56Speaker 04

  So, but that's, you know, worth a little bit more than the paper it's printed on at this point. We're happy to see it. We're not surprised to see it. We're just gonna keep working hard every day.

• 1:45:05Steven Rinella?

  Are your campaign signs gonna be your buck photo?

• 1:45:07Speaker 04

  Oh, actually, I should send you, I, uh, I should send you.

• 1:45:11Steven Rinella?

  Sand for governor and it's like a Griffin grin?

• 1:45:13Speaker 04

  I used to do, uh, I used to do parades and I'd have my, uh, shoulder mounts hanging off the side of my truck. And my, and my, uh, my, my sign would say, Rob Sand for state auditor. Bo Hunter, or no, it was like Rob Sand, Bo Hunter and state auditor. He'll find our bucks.

• 1:45:36Steven Rinella?

  That's good.

• 1:45:36Speaker 04

  It was fun. It's fun. I love, every, every, every campaign cycle, we've always had funny ads, like making fun of me, big target, you know? You don't need to be proficient for that one, big target. But if I can make people laugh, whether it's on a parade or it's a TV commercial, like that is public service. You asked about public service. Like that is a public service. We are living in very strange, oftentimes dark times.

• 1:46:00Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:01Speaker 04

  If I can give you an opportunity to put a smile on your face, like I've done a good thing.

• 1:46:06Steven Rinella?

  That's good. Take it and run.

• 1:46:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, yeah, we've, we'll, we'll probably do, I don't know if we'll do something. We haven't really talked about it, but we've done it in the past. The TV ads haven't been hunting oriented, but the, the parade floats have been.

• 1:46:18Steven Rinella?

  I should probably ask you a couple of technical hunting questions.

• 1:46:21Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:46:21Steven Rinella?

  When you're hunting those tight confines?

• 1:46:24Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:24Steven Rinella?

  And you just can't have one running off, you shoot mechanicals?

• 1:46:29Speaker 04

  Oh, boy. Do we have, I got a long answer.

• 1:46:32Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to hit you with contentious, you know? I don't want to hit you with like the gotcha stuff, you know?

• 1:46:36Speaker 04

  I got a long answer to this one. So I, I used to shoot fixed blade.

• 1:46:40Steven Rinella?

  You gotta take your shirt off for this?

• 1:46:41Speaker 04

  It's a little warm in here. It's a little warm in here. I used to shoot fixed blade.

• 1:46:46Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:46:48Speaker 04

  Then I saw this study from, what is it? Quality Deer Management Association, QDMA.

• 1:46:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:55Speaker 04

  Good, and again, like I'm a numbers guy, my, in, in college, my honors thesis was a statistical analysis on a data set that I built with over 40,000 data points in it.

• 1:47:07Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:47:07Speaker 04

  And so there, this, I think it was QDMA, but it was out there on the internet and they did this study in a permit-only hunting environment, I think on a, maybe on a military base. I'm pretty sure it was in Maryland.

• 1:47:18Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:47:18Speaker 04

  And they found that mechanicals gave you, mechanicals gave you a higher recovery rate.

• 1:47:23Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:47:25Speaker 04

  That was all I needed. Again, like I'm, I'm, I like truth.

• 1:47:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:28Speaker 04

  I like numbers. And even though I've been shooting fixed blades, I read that and I'm like, all right, now I'm shooting mechanicals.

• 1:47:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:34Speaker 04

  I switched to mechanicals. I think at the same time I switched to the deep six, like the micro diameter arrows.

• 1:47:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:41Speaker 04

  And so I got these ones. I'm not going to get into brands, but. Yeah, cuz you lose all the voters, you know. I don't. Shoot the other brand.

• 1:47:50Speaker 04

  I was into that sand guy. And then he said he shoots rages and now I think he sucks. I was gonna. I'm a mozzie guy myself. There you go.

• 1:48:01Speaker 04

  I just don't wanna, it's it's less about that. I didn't, I was not satisfied with the performance. Okay. I switched back to the same fix that I was using, just, I I knew they were reliable. I liked them. Hmm. But then, when I travel around the state, there's a few hunting archery shops I'll go into. One of them's in El Cator, Iowa, the guy that owns it, this guy named Dave, got to know him. You know, I'll pop in, might only be once a year, but pop in to say hi to Dave, see what he's got, what he's got. And he gave me, he was like, you gotta shoot these. Cuz I was telling him, you know, like, oh, I switched to mechanicals because I saw this study that says you get a better recovery rate, but it's been really frustrating. I switched to a two blade. I think the two blade, if you hit it, if your blades are not vertical and you, let's say you shoot quartering away. Right?

• 1:48:46Speaker 04

  Let's say your blades are like this. You're gonna hit that deer and one is gonna flip out and the other one's not. And so all of the trajectory and the energy of your arrow is gonna twist, probably. It's just not gonna get you the pass through that you want. And maybe that was the issue. But regardless of what the issue was, Dave was like, you gotta shoot these. And he hands me a pack, you want, we we we can talk brands, Grim Reapers. Okay. It's a four blade mechanical. And four blade mechanic. Four blade mechanical. So it's just, you know, uh, there's one that comes out on each, no collar on it. So it's like nothing to mess around with. The ones I had had collars on them. And I didn't buy him the first year that he recommended him.

• 1:49:29Speaker 04

  I'm typically just like taking information, right? Um, but eventually I I decided to buy him. Man, that's all I'm shooting now. That's what you shot two oh nine. That's what I shot, the two oh nine. Not the two oh nine, that's what you shot, two oh nine. I like the two oh nine, so like the four oh nine, beach boy. Okay, the two oh nine. I should rewrite my four oh nine.

• 1:49:51Speaker 04

  Thank you. There we go, we're gonna rewrite it, my two oh nine. The problem with naming bucks, actual names. Yeah. Is there's a story where, there's two stories.

• 1:50:02Speaker 04

  Mark Canyon had a buck named Frank. And he called someone and said, I shot Frank.

• 1:50:07Steven Rinella?

  Oh, no.

• 1:50:08Speaker 04

  And people can take that wrong way. And Jeff Foxworthy has that story where he had a buck named a person's name. And he told his wife, I shot.

• 1:50:17Speaker 04

  It's like, I shot Dave.

• 1:50:18Steven Rinella?

  Who's Dave?

• 1:50:19Speaker 04

  Why did you do that? Do I need to pack you a bag? Where are you right now?

• 1:50:25Steven Rinella?

  But yeah, I shot the 209. I'm like, that sounds like a, that's a buck.

• 1:50:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:29Steven Rinella?

  Old split time.

• 1:50:30Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:50:31Steven Rinella?

  Drop point.

• 1:50:32Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:50:32Steven Rinella?

  209.

• 1:50:33Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:50:33Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:34Speaker 04

  Uh, so yeah, I switched to these Grim Reapers. Every single shot now, just max 40 yards and drop.

• 1:50:43Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:50:44Speaker 04

  Big exit.

• 1:50:45Steven Rinella?

  I'll check it out.

• 1:50:47Speaker 04

  They're pretty good.

• 1:50:47Steven Rinella?

  I like to argue about this with Tony Peterson.

• 1:50:50Speaker 04

  All right.

• 1:50:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. You don't mean.

• 1:50:52Speaker 04

  No, but.

• 1:50:53Speaker 05

  Colleague of ours.

• 1:50:54Speaker 04

  All right. I think it's an interesting conversation. It's one of the more interesting ones I think that there is in archery right now.

• 1:51:00Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. For a while I quit, I tried to. For, there was a couple of years when I tried to not argue about gear.

• 1:51:09Speaker 04

  That's just like not possible.

• 1:51:10Steven Rinella?

  I know.

• 1:51:11Speaker 04

  Especially for you, I might be able to get away with it.

• 1:51:13Steven Rinella?

  You know, those guys that do that, um, they're like, uh, they'll say, well, it works for me.

• 1:51:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19Steven Rinella?

  Like no money, like I could say to you, study after study after study.

• 1:51:23Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:51:24Steven Rinella?

  Has shown that.

• 1:51:25Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:51:26Steven Rinella?

  Well, that's what works for me.

• 1:51:26Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:51:27Steven Rinella?

  And it just shuts, it just shuts it.

• 1:51:28Speaker 04

  I'm shooting field points.

• 1:51:30Steven Rinella?

  That works for me.

• 1:51:30Speaker 04

  Cause it works for me.

• 1:51:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And it just shuts everything down. So instead of arguing about gear. Cause I'll, I'll say, you know, of course my boots are the best.

• 1:51:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:39Steven Rinella?

  You know, my headlamp is the best. My buddy recently observed, you always have the best headlamp, but you always have a different headlamp.

• 1:51:49Speaker 04

  That's a great point. That is such a good point. That's frustrating.

• 1:51:53Steven Rinella?

  But that's not the one that you had a week ago that was the best.

• 1:51:56Speaker 04

  I'm picturing that Onion headline right now. World's worst person just made an amazing point, right? It's like, ah, you're right.

• 1:52:03Steven Rinella?

  So I tried to quit. I'm back, I'm back in though now.

• 1:52:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'll argue about it. But I, I, I seriously, I wish you good luck, man.

• 1:52:10Speaker 04

  Thank you. Appreciate that.

• 1:52:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I like, I like.

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:52:12Steven Rinella?

  I, I, I wanna, um, I like talking to people in the political space.

• 1:52:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:17Steven Rinella?

  Who don't want to burn everything down.

• 1:52:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. But you know, there's a great, uh, a great line. I'm trying to remember who said it and I can't, but, uh, Any old meal can kick a barn down. It takes a carpenter to build one.

• 1:52:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:32Speaker 04

  We got a lot of building to do.

• 1:52:33Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we do.

• 1:52:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, gluing stuff back together.

• 1:52:36Speaker 04

  Amen.

• 1:52:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I hope you like whatever happens in your campaign.

• 1:52:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:40Steven Rinella?

  You, your opponents, I hope you do that and and and I wish you luck and now and now on that night, I'm gonna be watching.

• 1:52:46Speaker 04

  All right. I appreciate that.

• 1:52:47Steven Rinella?

  And we hear about Iowa all the time because you guys vote real early and all that.

• 1:52:51Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:52:51Steven Rinella?

  It'll be easy to track.

• 1:52:52Speaker 04

  Good.

• 1:52:53Steven Rinella?

  All right, Rob Sand, Iowa.

• 1:52:55Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:52:55Steven Rinella?

  Uh, Iowa's state auditor.

• 1:52:58Speaker 04

  You got it.

• 1:52:59Steven Rinella?

  Running for the position of governor.

• 1:53:03Speaker 04

  And chief whitetail bowhunter.

• 1:53:06Steven Rinella?

  Yep. If you're in Des Moines and you don't like hunting and you see a very large buck

• 1:53:15Steven Rinella?

  and you're in town there, call Rob.

• 1:53:18Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:53:19Steven Rinella?

  Don't call anybody else.

• 1:53:21Speaker 04

  Please.

• 1:53:23Steven Rinella?

  Send photo of buck.

• 1:53:25Speaker 04

  We'll provide Venison.

• 1:53:28Steven Rinella?

  All right. Thank you very much.

• 1:53:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, thanks.

• 1:53:57Steven Rinella?

  If you spend a lot of time outdoors, you got dogs, you got kids, you know how hard it is to keep the floor of your rig clean. A thing we do in our in our little fleet of vehicles that have in my household, if you go look, open the door on any one of them, they all got WeatherTech. We get a car, we throw the mats out and put in WeatherTech. That way, when there's a mess, it's like your kid's fault, your dog's fault, it's the weather's fault, doesn't matter. You take them suckers out and hose them off and you're back to being good as new. I'm telling you, if you got a vehicle, put WeatherTech in there. You're gonna be happy you did it. And check this out, American-made floor liners and cargo liners, okay? They laugh in the face of all weather. Go take a look for yourself today at weather tech.com. Timeout in the field is not free. Okay, every time you go in the woods, there's a trade off happening.

• 1:54:41Steven Rinella?

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• 1:55:26Steven Rinella?

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• 1:56:00Speaker 03

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• 1:56:14Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.