#413 - “They Injected Me with DMT to Study the Fabric of Reality” | Carl Hayden Smith

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Carl Hayden Smith was the first participant on the nnDMT study at Imperial College London and most recently on the DMTX phase of the study. His research also explores the combination 'functional sound' with the application of psychedelics. https://contextology.org SPONSORS https://shopify.com/dannyjones - Turns out you don’t need a real job. Get a free trial today. https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/zralgyl0 - Download Cash App today. https://dupe.com - 100% free 'Research for Me' comparison shopping tool. https://butcherbox.com/danny - Get $20 off your first box, plus your choice of free ground beef for life, or free chicken thighs or top sirloins in every box for a year. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://contextology.org FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Carl's Psilohuasca trip 02:14 - DMTx trials at Imperial College 11:57 - Your brain is "asleep" on DMT 16:56 - What happens to your brain on psychedelics 21:59 - People who get locked out of DMT 27:22 - Cyberdelics - devices that change consciousness 33:46 - Natural vs. synthetic drugs 39:47 - Rick Strassman's theory on psychedelics 42:19 - Life reviews on psychedelics 47:08 - Carl's journaling practice 53:04 - Carl's DMTx trip visualized with AI 59:55 - 3 motifs of a DMT trip 01:07:36 - Upcoming DMT research goals 01:12:56 - Evidence for a 2nd Sphinx in Giza Plateau 01:16:24 - 3D modeling ancient sites & memory palaces 01:23:50 - Filippo Biondi's pyramid scan claims 01:28:37 - The power of sound on consciousness 01:37:27 - The Drake Passage 01:40:12 - Using tech to become more human 01:43:07 - Mystery schools & Eleusis 01:45:37 - Essence of the human experience 01:53:01 - Danny's experience with DMT 01:56:40 - Umwelt hacking 02:02:33 - Existence of telepathic abilities 02:10:13 - Noise pollution from data centers 02:17:37 - Next steps in DMTx experiment Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

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• 0:42Danny Jones?

  So tell me about this, how you were patient zero in this DMTX injection study where they inject DMT straight into your veins. How did this happen? How did you get into this and tell me how it went?

• 0:53Speaker 03

  That's a great story how I actually got into it. So I was doing siloaska in the Netherlands. And do you know what siloaska is? So siloaska is Syrian rue and mushrooms. So you do your heroic dose of mushrooms, whatever variety you want. And then you do three grams of pegunum seeds before you do your mushrooms. And it amplifies the mushrooms by about five times in strength. So instead of doing five grams, you're doing 25 grams.

• 1:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  And I've been crazy enough to do it twice. And the net result of that is that it's an alien invasion each time. Like the first time I did it, I was like on a saucer and there's a scanner in the middle of this saucer. And I'm like, all the entities, thousands of entities all trying to get me inside the scanner. And I'm like, I'm in a bad mood because Brexit just happened. I'm a university professor, work at the University of East London. And I knew it would ruin my, my research funding. Brexit is like the worst thing because I was getting, you know, millions of funding from the EU.

• 1:56Speaker 03

  And so I'm in a bad mood and I'm not, and it's, and it's equating to the entities. I'm basically like, okay, I'm not, I'm not in the mood to get in the scanner, even though I can see it's probably the most advanced technology I've ever seen. And on the side of the saucer is the same shape as this scanner. So it's almost like a pod and I could have potentially got in the pod.

• 2:15Danny Jones?

  Are you explaining what's happening in the trip right now?

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  And then I basically, you know, I I expect I would have been scanned and then fired off into the universe and spread across the the known universe. And instead of doing that, I was just, no, not going in, not going in, over and over again. And then the next day, I'm like, why the hell didn't I go in the scanner? Like, what was I thinking? So, bad taste in my mouth. I went to an event in London, in the real world, and I saw Chris Timmerman outside the Conway Hall, and I told him this story. And he says, oh, don't worry about that. You can come in my scanner at Imperial College London. So that's how I got the invite to start doing the D M T trials. And I've been doing them for eight years at Imperial. And the first study was E E G and intravenous

• 3:01Speaker 03

  D M T, and almost got thrown out of the study straight away for breathing, because I was like, quite, you know, doing a lot of breath work, because that's how you navigate the space. And Chris was like, oh, you've ruined the the the kind of the E G data, because you're creating motion artifacts as you're moving, as you're breathing. And I was like, you just need better equipment. So luckily, they did get better equipment, and I was allowed back into the second phase of the study. And the second phase of the study, F M R I plus injected D M T. And I don't know if you've ever been in an F M R I scanner.

• 3:36Danny Jones?

  I don't think so.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  But it's incre- I'm not claustrophobic generally, but the the claustrophobia induced by this incredibly loud, very confined, your head's like, you know, you can't move an inch, so you're locked, your head's sort of very confined, you can't move any part of your body. And you're not really in, you're not really in charge of when the D M T is coming into your system. So you're, you know, you're trying to cope with the claustrophobia. Then suddenly, you're like, oh, my God, I'm in here, and I'm, you know, tripping.

• 4:04Danny Jones?

  That's a lot.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  And then, immediately, the entities arrive on mass, as if to say, bang, they gave me like a, like a flash of light, to say that you're, you're made of light, you're like an immortal being, but you're in a human form right now, and you're not scheduled. They're like, you're not scheduled. And I was like.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  Like role reversal. So I had to to calm down these abundance, the amount of entities that arrived on mass, all different varieties, all very concerned for me because I'm I'm suddenly in a scanner when, as I mentioned before, they're the ones normally scanning you. So I was I was like, kind of giving them a bit of a trip. So I had to spend the entire trip calming them down. And I can show you a before and after, if you like, from the from that study. But that was like, that was the second phase of the study.

• 4:59Danny Jones?

  So what was the purpose of the study?

• 5:02Speaker 03

  The purpose of the study, these are the three phases. So you can see the the first phase of twenty sixteen to twenty seventeen, that was the EEG plus intravenous DMT.

• 5:13Danny Jones?

  Pilot study?

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then we had the FMRI plus EEG. So when you that's when you're in this huge tube.

• 5:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  And then from twenty twenty one onwards was the DMTX. I was lucky. It's almost like a graduation ceremony. So I got through the first phase. And second phase was like this was this was before that particular scan.

• 5:32Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  And this was me directly afterwards.

• 5:35Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  So you can see it's like a

• 5:38Danny Jones?

  See it in your face.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was. It was an extraordinary insight and probably the most powerful DMT experience I've had thus far, because they gave up the cosmic joke, as if to say, we're here, we're we're, you know, kind of your guardians and you're not scheduled, as if to say they know when you're when you're actually scheduled. And that wasn't the right time for me to be, you know, putting myself in danger. And what was really fascinating was that two weeks

• 6:03Danny Jones?

  They know when. What does that mean? They know when

• 6:04Speaker 03

  They they they told me. They told me you're not scheduled. That was very clear, like as in like, you're not ready to you're you're not gonna die now. This is like,

• 6:12Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Why are you being scanned? Like, what is this scanner? They were completely confused and they'd probably never seen anyone. Having D M T and being in an F M R I scanner. So it was extraordinary for them. Probably more extraordinary in some sense because I had to spend the whole time calming them down.

• 6:28Danny Jones?

  As if people can be scheduled to die.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  As if they know when you're scheduled. And what was crazy was two weeks later I had to go.

• 6:34Danny Jones?

  As if it's predetermined.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  As if there's some sort of, yeah, some sort of knowledge on the guardians, if they are your guardians, if there is something to that. But what was crazy is two weeks later, I had to go back in the scanner and do the next phase of the study, same dose, same experiment. And no entities came, as if to say they, you know, like a bit like crying wolf, like you, you know, we've told you, this isn't the cleverest thing to be doing.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  And of course, it made me realize that it's all about context, you know, it's very much about the contextual factors of when you're doing these trips, like what, you know, if you've got a massively loud device that you're basically sitting inside whilst you're doing the D M T. That's going to affect the outcomes because I think eighty percent of the medicine is the contextual factors that you're doing it. We know about mindset, right? How if you're, if you're in a very twisted place, you shouldn't touch anything psychedelic because it will, it's a non-specific amplifier. Body set, you know, my friend Jackalock and Mylin have written a paper around how important it is to be well rested. You know, the food that you've eaten, all, you know, have you had a virus recently, you know?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Body set's critical in terms of context as well. And then your environment, like, so those three factors make up so much.

• 7:50Danny Jones?

  I'm sorry if you already said it. I remember I asked you earlier, what, what was the specific purpose of this experiment?

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't answer that.

• 7:56Danny Jones?

  Was there a hypothesis you were testing?

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Consciousness, really to explore consciousness, which is why I was interested in being part of that study. So it wasn't to do with depression or A D H D. Or can we help with this, that or the other? It was very much can we explore what consciousness is through D M T?

• 8:13Danny Jones?

  Can we explore what consciousness is through DMT?

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that was really the

• 8:17Danny Jones?

  And, okay, so they hook you up to an IV?

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:22Danny Jones?

  And give you, how does that work? How do they give you DM, how do they know how much DMT to give you? How do they know, is there like an unsafe amount? Or like a limit of how much they can give you? And how long does it last?

• 8:33Speaker 03

  It's a great question. So this is the device that they use. And this is basically what you would be having if you were being anesthetized. So if you're going into to have an operation, you want, you want to have a continuous infusion of anesthetic.

• 8:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  To make sure you don't wake up. So all they've done is switch out the anesthetic for DMT. And, and the reason why that study was kind of foundational. And why Andrew Galimor and Rick Strassman had theorized around this being possible. We didn't know really until this time. And I was subject zero in that study, like the first person to do all five different dosing sessions. But the, the main thing that we realized is that, yeah, there is an increase in heart rate to begin with. But it flattened, it, you know, it stabilizes. So it was deemed then safe to explore. And now like Danny Gola, for instance, has just done five hours DMT extended stay. Which I believe is the current

• 9:29Danny Jones?

  How many hours did you do?

• 9:30Speaker 03

  I just did half an hour.

• 9:32Danny Jones?

  Half an hour.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  Because it was just a safety study, but I did different doses over the course of, you know, five, no, three months. So every three weeks I would do a different dose.

• 9:44Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  And it would take you that time to kind of integrate the experience. And what was also interesting was the, you know, the entities themselves, you know, because everyone sees entities, it seems. You know, I'll talk a little bit about Eleusis and the project that we've got going on in the Caribbean. Where 74% of people that are doing DMTX are experiencing some sort of entity. And again, you know, I'm a scientist, I'm a professor, I'm, I'm still on the fence as to whether these entities are your archetypes or your higher self or you, or you in the future or something you're tapping into. I know Robin Harris recently talked about that, of course, we're, you know, in our subconscious, we, we try to make sense

• 10:26Speaker 03

  of, of these, these, these inferences. But I think the key thing is that they're so, as, as, as we're seeing more and more, that it's a hyperreal reality that, that has some sort of You know, consistency, people like, there was the DMT Nexus did this, the labyrinth, where they actually crowdsourced, um, you know, people's trips to say, are you going to this part of DMT space? Are you going to this part of DMT space? And I think that that's fascinating, that people are going to the same spaces. And if we can, if we can actually put maybe six people in, I know with, with Anton Bilton, he, his, his vision is like, let's get six, six people launched at the same time.

• 11:11Danny Jones?

  And see if they experience this thing together.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  See if they go to a, to a common space.

• 11:16Danny Jones?

  Right. So how did they figure out like, what this, no one's ever died from DMT, right? I know people, people have died from Ibogaine.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:26Danny Jones?

  And from other things because of the heart rate issue.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:28Danny Jones?

  Um, lots of other psychedelics people have died from, but never with DMT.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:32Danny Jones?

  So how did they figure out how to measure that? And like, how like pharmacologically mixed with your body and how that all works?

• 11:40Speaker 03

  That was, that was a big part of the, the pilot.

• 11:43Danny Jones?

  I feel like I would have been asking them so many goddamn questions. That was the first base.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, so I think that the key thing is you, you know, you have an amazing care team, the best scientists in the world, the best psychedelic minds, and you're in safe hands. And of course they, they start low, they dose low. And like you say, the good thing about DMT is it's, it's very safe in terms of it's non, it's not toxic.

• 12:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  And, you know, I think that for me, it's, I've, I've always been fascinated by, by, by consciousness and looking at consciousness from multiple angles. So I'm happy to, to push, you know, to push the boundaries to find out where they are. But I know that, that what I was doing there was very safe and, and it obviously made me very intrigued as to how far we can go with these durations, et cetera.

• 12:32Danny Jones?

  So what have we learned about consciousness?

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Well, um, as I was telling, telling you earlier, one of the, the big findings from the publications from Chris was that it seems that you are asleep effectively on DMT. It seems like you're in a dream, that the signature of the brain is that you're dreaming. And again, you know, this is, this is one of the, obviously it's very different to dreaming, but for me, it's, you know, it's the same when I go into, we'll talk later about.

• 13:02Danny Jones?

  That's very interesting.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  The sacred sites also seem to put you into this trance-like state. You know, we've had, I can show you later, the, the brainwaves being measured in the King's Chamber and the Great Pyramid with 10 of us being, you know, being EEG measured and actually seeing that we've got very high delta. It looks like we're all asleep whilst completely sober. But the architecture itself is doing something. And again, it's like, what's the connection between dreaming psychedelics and sacred sites? There seems to be a golden thread between them.

• 13:35Danny Jones?

  There's also people who are alleged UFO experiencers. They put these helmets on and tried to measure that, do an EEG on them. And they said the same thing. They said their brains look like they're in a sleep state.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:49Danny Jones?

  Very, very strange.

• 13:52Danny Jones?

  So how many times did you do this?

• 13:54Speaker 03

  So that DMTX study was five different dosing sessions.

• 13:58Danny Jones?

  Five different dosing sessions.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Five different, and, and again, one point, Chris was like, do you want to come back? We've got, we've got an opening. Do you want to come back after two weeks? And I was like, definitely not. Because you need the three weeks to integrate what you're learning. And I think that the entities also aren't so happy about you being, being there too often. Because I've, I've had the message, you, you know, you're coming back too frequently. You know, we'll happily still do the work on you as if, you know, a lot of it seems to be some sort of psychic surgery. They're, they're working on physical elements or they're giving you kind of, it's very moral. I find they're giving you relationship advice. It's like, you know, you're doing this well, you're not doing so well here. It's kind of like a, some sort of mystery school that you're tapping into.

• 14:42Danny Jones?

  And while you're doing it, are you somehow communicating with people?

• 14:46Speaker 03

  In the room.

• 14:47Danny Jones?

  In the room.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, the interesting thing about DMTX is that you, you know, you're unlike a five MEO experience where you're you kind of are like a lot more out of body, you know, it's DMTX. For me, you know, you're they're asking you questions every, I mean, this is part of the problem. They're asking you every two minutes. How intense is it now, Carl? How anxious are you now, Carl? You know, and I'm like, guys, do you, you know, telling me the time effectively by asking me every two minutes and also asking me if I'm anxious, not the not the ideal kind of settings for a psychedelic experience. So I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a subject. So I'm having to give data. And what is interesting and

• 15:30Speaker 03

  useful about that is, you know, if I've given a rating of 10 out of 10 for intensity, then in the interview directly afterwards, Chris does these micro phenomenological interviews where you are asked to repeat the experience directly after you've had it. So not to remember it, but to go in and have the experience again, to the, to the best of your ability, guided by those ratings.

• 15:53Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, it seems like it would be frustrating because all those questions, having to interact with scientists, asking you questions, we keep one foot in the real world and you'd be, wouldn't be like fully enveloped in that DMT.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  It's, it's definitely a double consciousness kind of experience.

• 16:06Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  That you're in both, much like in a VR experience where you, you know, you're in a game environment, but you also know you're in the real, real room. And the same with, with a lot of this, it's like you, you know, you're having an internal experience, but you're also very embodied in that.

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• 17:07Danny Jones?

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• 17:43Speaker 03

  I'm very much, you know, an explorer of these spaces. And I think that there is kind of a, an exchange. And there seems to be a very different ontology. So if we think about like thinking, feeling, being in this realm, that's our, that's our way of, you know, existing. I think that they find that very interesting and they can learn from us as test subjects. Like I'll show you a visualization of the fifth dose. And it's like there's a playpen being constructed around you for you to be observed. And it does feel like you're popping up into their space. And one of the dangers, I think, of DMTX is that you could end up

• 18:28Speaker 03

  colonizing that space because, you know, they probably tolerate us in these short durations popping into their space and find us kind of not, you know, a bit like when you, you have a spider in your house and you put a glass over the spider and have it say, "Look at this before you put it back out in the wild." That's my hunch that there is kind of, you know, you know, I think that there are aliens and we are also aliens. And I think that, you know, of course, it's like the typical hubris of humans to think that we're unique and that we're the only intelligence. And, you know, what I find interesting about AI is that suddenly it's revealing the languages of all these other species. And of course, they're all very conscious and, you know,

• 19:11Speaker 03

  the whales, for instance, have their own phonetic alphabet.

• 19:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Andrew Gallimore explained to me, really stuck with me about how like the the five senses we have are like brain filters or whatever that keep us away from the rest of it. They're like, they're filtering out everything that's really there so that we can survive in the world.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 19:31Danny Jones?

  Right? And then what this is doing is stripping away the five senses we have and exposing everything to us.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:38Danny Jones?

  I really, that really makes a lot of sense. But like, the problem is how the fuck do you prove that?

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Well, this is, this is why it's interesting that now Andrew's collaborating with Don Hoffman. We just literally launched the Trace Institute in LA a few days ago. And that is basically an opportunity for us to test Don's theories. And you know, Don's talking about this kind of VR headset that we're all wearing and how spacetime itself is a construct and it's a construct of consciousness. So he's an idealist.

• 20:12Danny Jones?

  Spacetime itself is all a construct.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and the idea that basically everything's arising from consciousness. So instead of

• 20:20Danny Jones?

  Right. So consciousness is fundamental.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. So Anil Seth, for instance, he would say that your brain is producing consciousness. So that's a materialist perspective.

• 20:30Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  And the, you know, the idealist think that you, your, you know, your body is being produced through consciousness. Everything's arising from consciousness. So if we were to talk about, and even in the recent launch, you know, Don's saying that, you know, our headset is kind of faulty. And I've done a whole TEDx talk at Oxford, talking about the fact that when we look in the mirror, we don't see ourselves as we are. We, you know, the mirror's flipping the image back to front. So when you actually see yourself in a true mirror, which is two mirrors at 90 degree angle, that's when you see yourself as you actually look.

• 21:05Danny Jones?

  Hmm, 3D.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you know, it's just like, you know, you can do it, you can mirror sometimes on a webcam and you'll, you'll actually switch and you actually look like that. Other people see you as you look, but you don't. And also the way you hear, you know, when you suddenly hear yourself, you hear yourself a lot, right?

• 21:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  When you hear yourself on a recording, it's not as you imagine you hear.

• 21:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  So you're in a perceptual locked in since you're sort of already in a virtual reality. And other people have a have a have a better understanding of you in terms of sound and visuals than you do.

• 21:38Danny Jones?

  Right, well, not today's day and age. Now, everyone, you can see yourself on video and on audio 24/7, people making videos of themselves.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  That's true, but then a lot of people are getting nose jobs because their mirror is their phone and they're holding it at a certain angle. So they get this, you know, it comes back to the Renaissance where we actually decoded spaces linear perspective, whereas actually we see in curve a linear perspective, but all of our cameras, all of our media is all based around linear perspective. So there's a fundamental flaw there. So we're kind of locked in to our VR headset, as Don says, and as you said with Andrew, we now have the ability with DMT to maybe upgrade the headset and start to actually experience reality in a way that isn't confined to the five senses, so that you actually have this kind of new way of testing. And they went

• 22:26Speaker 03

  through the whole, all the different tests that we want to do at Eleusis in the Caribbean, because now we have the opportunity to do DMTX and to bring in people. For instance, there's certain people that get locked out of DMT.

• 22:38Danny Jones?

  I've heard this.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  You know, and and David Luke, for instance, one of my good friends, he did, I think, 50 doses of of DMT quite soon after each other on the River Ganges and was was effectively locked out. He had like an orange screen over his experiences for 20 years, until I think he did.

• 22:58Danny Jones?

  20 years?

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Until he eventually did a study at Imperial and and was unlocked. So what we want to do is a study looking at people that have got the locked locked out syndrome and then people that have maybe never been able to have any experience with DMT, no matter how much they do, they seem to be genetically unable to experience it. And then normies. So we'll do a comparison between these three different groups. And, you know, it'd be great to do a call out to to try and understand if there's people out there that have one of these, you know, different. Predicaments.

• 23:35Danny Jones?

  So how would you upgrade the VR headset? Like, if you're talking about our consciousness, you're saying that by the use of DMT therapeutically or something in some, with the use of some sort of protocol, we could increase our consciousness permanently somehow?

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Well, let me show you another image here. This is from, this is from Andrew as well. This is, this is quite old now in terms of his presentation of it, but this is his vision or what was his vision, I'm not sure, because one of the reasons we started talking is because I'm very much in a, in a sort of hyperhuman focus, thinking about the fact that we only live for a thousand months as humans, only a thousand months, that's all we get, but yet we spend a lot of time trying to-

• 24:16Danny Jones?

  How many years is that?

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Eighty-three.

• 24:18Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  So people don't realize, you know, it's such a brutally short existence and we spend a lot of our times trying to peek beyond the veil, not really exploring actually probably what's the rarest thing, which is to be human, right? So I'm really interested in, you know, how do we understand our potential, our latent potential that we may have atrophied through different, you know, through just basically being on our phones all day long? Because one of the crazy charts is that you've got a thousand, thousand months to live, but out of that thousand months, you only have three hundred months free time. And the average person uses three hundred months on their phone.

• 24:53Danny Jones?

  Have you seen those calendars they make?

• 24:54Speaker 03

  That's what I mean.

• 24:55Danny Jones?

  Those are crazy.

• 24:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:56Danny Jones?

  Those are insane. They really give you like a perspective.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  They really do. And that's the thing with like, you know, people just Netflix themselves to death. So this is DMTX, kind of, you know, almost a bit tongue in cheek, but you know, Andrew's, um, you know, his vision is that, you know, you're, you're kept in these pods and you have like waste management taken care of, so-

• 25:17Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  So like foods coming in through a drip and waste coming out through-

• 25:21Danny Jones?

  Like the Matrix.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty much. And I remember him presenting this at the Tyringam Institute and all the shamans were just looking at each other going, this guy's absolutely bonkers. And, um, and yeah, basically, this is, this is transhumanism 101 for, for DMTX. Whereas I'm like, let's not do this. Let's like, let's explore DMTX and go in for it with a particular intention with, you know, bring in specific types of skillsets into these spaces and try and solve mathematical problems, scientific problems, like really bring back information that now with the DMTX experience and especially-

• 26:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I don't think you're a mirror- Meant to stay there that long.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  No, and this is what will happen. We'll start colonizing the space. And then we'll really have problems, I think.

• 26:09Danny Jones?

  We will start colonizing the space.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, because if you're, like I said before, like I've been told, oh, you're coming back too frequently. Likes, don't be, don't be coming back so often, but we'll, we'll, you know, is an exchange. There is some sort of exchange going on. And maybe that will be part of the upgrade that, you know, I'm, I'm always exploring, having gone through these studies. You know, have I been left with not just an altered state, but altered traits? You know, because even during the study, there was only 12 of us. That did the pilot study, only four of us um ended up doing all five doses. And what I found interesting was that there was, there was some, some, some skills being developed over that short period of time, like.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  For instance, I, I was having precognition, so I, I actually tapped into. What my future mental state would be like six months from then. And I only realized when it actually came to pass that I was actually having this precognition. You know, and um. So I think that, that we can upgrade the headset. With D M T X, but only if we do it in a very mindful, ethical. You know, mindful of what's going on on the other side as well, and, and really bringing through these sorts of. You know, can we solve scientific problems with this stuff and, and really look into.

• 27:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, it's just like dreams, right? We can't really remember dreams after they happen like that. When you wake up, you have a very good memory of it. Like when you get up and go to the bathroom, but then like, you know, 10 minutes later, it's totally gone.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:37Danny Jones?

  And I think that's by design, the same way with D M T.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 27:41Danny Jones?

  I don't think we were meant, I don't think we were meant to, which is why I think it's a great thing to like record it after you do it, like an audio recording.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:49Danny Jones?

  But um.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  But now you.

• 27:50Danny Jones?

  If we had, if we could lock those memories in the same way, you know, I can remember having breakfast this morning. I don't think it would be good.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  I I I agree. And what's interesting now, and I don't know if you've seen this Luma Band, which apparently will will um create lucid dreaming on demand. Have you ever had any lucid dreams? So this-

• 28:07Danny Jones?

  I've had lucid dreams.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. So very rare-

• 28:10Danny Jones?

  Not on purpose, but on accident.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  No, very rare, right? I mean, most people only ever experience it once. I had a a lucid dream and I was holding a calculator and I was consciously pressing the buttons and I was like, what a waste.

• 28:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  You know, it could have been flying. But um but this band, so again, it's the hyperhuman versus transhuman version of lucid dreaming. So lucid dreaming, you can you can train yourself. Reality testing, right? So you do this like looking at your hand. Am I dreaming? Am I dreaming? Am I dreaming? You're just looking at your hand over and over again. And then you may end up looking at your hand in the dream and then you might notice one finger's longer than another. And that means that you're dreaming and you're like, and then the key is to not wake up, not, you know, wake up from astonishment, because that's when you you come, you know, you ruin the the lucid dream. But imagine if lucid dreaming becomes a button, you know, just like now with the prompting, right? We're just pressing buttons. And that means we can potentially have lucid

• 29:03Speaker 03

  dreams on demand. And maybe we're not meant to, you know, maybe we are meant to do the training because it's hard.

• 29:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  You know, I think that there's a lot to be said for forgetting and the importance of forgetting, you know, much like, I don't know if you've seen that Black Mirror episode where it was like two couples rowing. And they were like, you said this. And they were like, no, you said this. And then they were like, let's have a look. And because they're recording everything through their contact lenses all day long, they just they just rewound the uh yeah, there you go.

• 29:28Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  It's just just been launched. So what is this supposed to do? So this is transcranial stimulation uh whilst you're asleep. So it'll it'll know when you're in a REM state. And once you're in a REM state, it will it will fire a small amount of transcranial. So electricity are basically hitting the left or the right angular gyrus. And that's then meant to create this like lucid dream like state. And of course, it's super contentious. I think it's still on preorder. Um. But you know, I know a lot of people in the in the dream science space and this is just like, this is again, just the kind of the dystopian hell for for a lot of people that really value what comes through through dreams. Cause it seems like with dreaming, it's like either you're just processing your day or you are like getting some sort of transmission from somewhere.

• 30:14Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  And I think like the same with all of this AI stuff where we're either atrophying the ability to sit to to receive as channels, like receive something from somewhere. I mean, another example is this, a friend of mine has created this watch that you never look at, but you feel it. So it vibrates the minutes, the hours, the seconds, right? So you you literally turn time into a sense.

• 30:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  So you know time. And I said to him, well, what's the benefit? He says, well, now I I never burn pancakes because I know time. So he knows two minutes. It's not an abstract concept anymore. It's like he knows time.

• 30:51Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  So now he doesn't burn pancakes. So is that really the point of this very invasive, like, again, quite dystopian, because I was like, well, what happens to flow states? Because flow states depend on not knowing the time.

• 31:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  What happens to?

• 31:03Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  What happens to psychedelics when you know time? And he wanted to give me one of these fifty watches because, you know, giving them to influencers and I was like, I'll give it to some, I'll give it to a surrogate to wear it.

• 31:13Danny Jones?

  You know, it's weird. This is, it happens to me all the time. Like, I'm so reliant on having my watch. I feel naked without it.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Really?

• 31:18Danny Jones?

  If I go without my watch.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:20Danny Jones?

  For a couple of days, I I know what time it is.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 31:24Danny Jones?

  Like, I can just get, I could like, stop for a second, like, I wonder what time it is. I would guess and I'll go look at my phone and I'd be like dead on within a couple of minutes.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  So you're, yeah, you've got the, but of course, it's a human construct.

• 31:34Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  And we also, you know, I'm not only just interested in psychedelics, but cyberdelics.

• 31:40Danny Jones?

  Cyberdelics?

• 31:41Speaker 03

  Cyberdelics. So check out Cyberdelic Nexus.

• 31:44Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  Uh, this is really the hub of all the different ways we can change consciousness with technology. So think of flicker lights. Have you ever tried like a? Uh, Roxeva or Lucia light, which induces like an LSD trip just through flickering light. So you sit in front of this light with your eyes closed and you, and you start seeing colors that you, you know, it's only white light, but you're seeing full kaleidoscopic colors. It's totally wild. So binaural beats, like mixed reality, virtual reality, but also, um, we, I worked with the Cyborg Nest guys and they created a new sense called the North Sense, which was something you body pierced. So it wasn't like fully invasive, but it was like, it was body pierced. So you would wear this thing and it would vibrate

• 32:27Speaker 03

  every time you faced north. So eventually after a certain amount of time, you knew, you, you would know where north is, right? Much like birds know where north is. We may have known where north is, but we lost that ability maybe through, you know, the, the first maps or, you know, now nobody knows where anyone is because all we, we don't know where we are because of GPS, right? So we're constantly, we're constantly outsourcing that. And I think that that is a super interesting way of using technology. And there's again, a hyperhuman way of doing it, which is you can wear a belt and it will vibrate every time, every, you know, for six weeks you'll wear this belt and then you remove the belt and then you still have the North Sense as opposed to something you have to wear permanently, which, which is the transhuman route.

• 33:11Danny Jones?

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• 33:51Danny Jones?

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• 34:33Danny Jones?

  remembering phone numbers, right? Like, I used to be able to remember tons of phone numbers. Now I can remember like three phone numbers. And like where it's going, you know, I had this conversation with Hamilton, Hamilton Morris once, when he was explaining to me the difference between like, uh, natural drugs and synthesized drugs, drugs that are synthesized in a lab.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:56Danny Jones?

  Well, if you really think about it, even drugs that are created in a lab by a scientist with using beakers and shit like that, that is, that's technically natural.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:07Danny Jones?

  Because we are a part of nature and we are using our brains and our technology to create this stuff and it exists on this earth. So it really is natural. We just, we don't think of it that way. We think of stuff as like, as, you know, invasive or unnatural, just because we created it and we used technology to create it.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, if you think about 5-MO DMT, which I find one of the most extraordinary chemicals on the planet, most of that is actually synthesized through melatonin. So it's just a simple chemical reaction to, to create 5-MO DMT from melatonin. And Rick Strassman had a whole chapter on melatonin in his, in his, in his book. And I think, yeah, Hamilton is, uh, you know, chemist. So he's, he's lucky enough to be able to explore these things and, and explore.

• 35:57Danny Jones?

  What do you think about, uh, Strassman's view on all this? I think his view is that, basically, when you take psychedelics, it is based on your priming of, he thinks it's like bringing out what's buried deep in your psyche and bringing it to fruition in this surreal way, consciously.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, Strassman, I know he's not a fan of five M E O, but I think his.

• 36:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, he had a really bad trip on five.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, as did Michael Pollan, actually. And I was kind of, I was having dinner with him after he launched his How to Change Your Mind book. And I was like, you can't like dismiss this because you had a bad trip and the whole of humanity listens to you and dismisses this incredibly. I mean, funnily enough, most of the clinical trials are really finding extraordinary results from five, like the Beckley SciTech work, which was the nasal spray, which was the last study I did at Imperial. And, you know, having a nasal route of administration meant that I had a 90 minute experience. 60 minutes of that was a plus 10.

• 37:01Danny Jones?

  On five M E O?

• 37:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, my Lord.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  It was unbelievable. And, you know, for me, that that trumps D M T in terms of the way I see it is that we we're here in the, in the, you know, third dimension and light is shining upon us. When you do D M T or ayahuasca or Changa, it seems light is emitting from objects, like you're seeing this hyper hyper real like, like light show from like, things are coming out from, from, from people and objects and entities. And when you do five M E O D M T, it's like you become light itself. So it feels like we're having relations with light in different dimensions. I hate the word dimensions, but it's like we are, you know, probably all of these things all the time.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  You know, when we talk about dreaming, it's like your astral body or your light body.

• 37:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  You know, so it seems like there are, and I, you know, like the the Kogi tribe, for instance, they keep their shamans in the, in the caves from birth for nine or 18 years. And, you know, endogenous D M T seems to produce, seems to incubate in the dark, whereas

• 38:09Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Whereas it's all about the light. Yeah, check out the the Kogi.

• 38:12Danny Jones?

  So from the moment they're born, they stay in a cave till 18?

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, nine or 18, I believe.

• 38:18Danny Jones?

  That seems fucking terrible for people, for you. It seems like you would.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  And they're taught about the world in the dark. And then they're, they're on their ninth birthday, they're brought out and said, look, we told you about the world and here it is, as if.

• 38:29Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it'd be fascinating to to study what's.

• 38:32Danny Jones?

  Where's this tribe?

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Uh, in Colombia.

• 38:36Danny Jones?

  Huh.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. There you go.

• 38:39Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 38:44Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  So this was my like rudimentary rudimentary sketch with Chris Timmerman where I'm like talking about these sort of levels of light. And another bit, another really interesting thing from from Galimor is that eventually we might, we might not need substances at all, but just magnets. So magnetoreceptors that can turn on and off receptors. So you'd wear something like this cap and it would literally turn your receptors on and off. And I know with one of my friends, Kenneth at Stanford, he's in a study where they're they're using ultrasound to direct ketamine to different parts of the brain. So they'll they'll point like an ultrasound into into a specific part of the brain where they want the ketamine to go.

• 39:29Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  So I'm really fascinated.

• 39:31Danny Jones?

  I had a gentleman on the podcast who said he was doing that. Um, what was that guy's name? Anyways, he he had this like ultrasound device that he uses on his temple.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 39:43Danny Jones?

  And he thinks it's like somehow he thinks it could be used as a tool to alleviate Alzheimer's in people.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, there's, there's so much incredible research coming out in terms of like, you know, even longevity studies that seems to be the case that with mushrooms, LSD, even ketamine, there seems to be a tangible benefit in terms of lifespan.

• 40:10Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 40:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, there's recent papers. I haven't got the references here, but.

• 40:16Danny Jones?

  How would psychedelics increase lifespan?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  That's a great question. It's a great question.

• 40:20Danny Jones?

  That seems wild. Yeah, so Strausman.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:25Danny Jones?

  Um, his view is that it's basically just pulling out everything that's already in you and like projecting it in a in some sort of a weird way where or maybe it's like synthesizing all of these.

• 40:42Danny Jones?

  Neurons in your brain, like all these sensory neurons in your brain, maybe they're all collapsing into one thing. Where people describe DMT as being more real than real, right? So if you're in a dream state and you have this chemical that's sort of like bringing all these neurons and neurotransmitters together.

• 41:00Danny Jones?

  To make some super incredibly real experience that you're seeing in this actual visual, fully sensor, fully like sensory in every sense of the word way. Like the sounds, the smells, the colors, the visuals, you feel it. And it's projecting it back to us. I feel like if we, I feel like most people would experience something like that for the first time and we would just automatically. Put so much meaning to something like that, right? Instead of like looking at it as like a, like a, of what it, what is actually technically happening right there in the brain. Maybe what's happening is like we're ascribing all this meaning to it.

• 41:41Danny Jones?

  And that, when you add on all the contextual layer of psychedelics in our culture. Right? What everyone knows about psychedelics, anyone who's learned anything about psychedelics, they know it's like, okay, this is what happens. We see, we see beings, we see little elves, it's geometric patterns, you, it dissolves the ego, it can do this, this and this. So maybe this is having some cascading effect because that's like what we're expecting when we go into it. And if you gave somebody that was completely outside of our culture, that was not indoctrinated into any of this stuff that we know about psychedelics. Someone, some tribe, maybe some like uncontacted tribe gave it to them and see what happened to them, maybe it, it wouldn't be the same thing.

• 42:24Danny Jones?

  And on top of that, they did that study with psilocybin at the Johns Hopkins Institute where they gave the religious professionals a bunch of psilocybin. To see what would happen to them, what their experience would be. And every single one of their experience was mapped by their religious beliefs.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:40Danny Jones?

  Which is very interesting.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I mean, I think like, like dreams, you, you're either processing your, your, your worldview, your. You're you're trying to like come to terms with whatever trauma, I mean, although I think it's very much drug dependent, right? So if you were to do Iboga or Ibergaine, it seems to you have a lot of people have a life review where you're experiencing your your life even from pre-birth. Um, and I know a lot of people that have done Iboga and they've got up to the age of six where they've been shown everything they've ever done wrong. You know, and then then they may do Iboga again, like years later, and they start from age six as if they've processed that part of their lives and now they they move through the life review. So it's,

• 43:26Speaker 03

  you know, I mean, I've I've been very lucky to have a life review where I experienced my entire life in reverse in episodic chunks.

• 43:33Danny Jones?

  On what?

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Combination of various things, but but it was an incredible insight into death. You know, because maybe in death, we have this kind of, because I feel like we're in a lab, right? We're in a learning lab where we are wanting to really maximize our learning in and I think death, my hunch is death is a massive expansion of consciousness, not a not a restriction or an elimination. And in this experience, I I basically was able to leave my body in the in the, so I was already in a double consciousness. So I'm in my consciousness now, like I'm talking to you. And then I was in my consciousness in the in the life review, going back in time in episodic chunks. It was completely detailed.

• 44:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 44:18Speaker 03

  And what was amazing was that I was able to leave my body, partly because I had an out of body at twenty seven, which is a whole other story. And I was able to, I went into, I decided to go into a table and became wood consciousness. So I was in a triple consciousness. And then I realized, well, maybe I can go into other people. So I went into another person. I was I was having their experience of me and myself at the same time. And I think that's probably what karma is, that you think you get away with stuff in life, but actually most likely you will experience what you've done to somebody as them and you at the same time. So I think my hunch is that we are trapped in a point of view, like we all feel like we're in this kind of locked in point of view state.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  And that's why psychedelics can give you a kind of holiday from the self, as Aldous Huxley would say. But in the death state, you are now given privy access, field of view access, where you can enter anything in the scene. And it can be any kind of, you know, animal, you know, anything in the scene, books I'd ever, that I'd read, I could become the authors. Films that I'd been in, I could become all the actors, but I had to have lived it in order to have access. So it made me realize, be careful who you spend your time with. And also be careful where you go, because as I, like recently, I went to Antarctica and the Amazon, because I, I, I need to have those spaces. In the life review in order to access all the things in those spaces. So it's almost like there's no.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  You know, there's no time limitations. It's like, it's like your life becomes a product. Where you can explore it from them, you know, from the learning perspective. And I think that's my hunch is to. Through this and life reviews are quite common, like a lot of people have these life reviews, whether it's induced through a psychedelic or a near death experience, but it.

• 46:00Danny Jones?

  I've had at one time free diving when I almost, like I was free diving in a cave and I couldn't find an exit and I had like a full rewind of my whole life.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Really?

• 46:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it was, it must have been. In reality, it probably only lasted 10 seconds.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:13Danny Jones?

  But it felt like hours.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:14Danny Jones?

  It was crazy.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  I had my entire life at that point, I was forty and it went, like it was an hour in real time, but it was forty years for me, perception.

• 46:21Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  And it makes me think of those people that go to sleep and then they have a dream. And they dream that they're in somebody else's life for like. A year. So they'll have the same, you know, they'll live their life in this dream. They'll have their family, they'll have, they'll wake up and it'll just be a night.

• 46:37Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  That they've had this one year of experience. And then the next night they go to sleep again and have another year.

• 46:43Danny Jones?

  Somebody was telling us a story the other day about um, Salvia divinorum, I believe.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  I was gonna tell you, yeah.

• 46:51Danny Jones?

  And uh, they were saying that. Like they had to live somebody's like entire life.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:57Danny Jones?

  It only lasted maybe 10 minutes, but it felt like a fucking eternity and it was like torture for them.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 47:03Danny Jones?

  And then they, when they got out of the trip, they like, they were missing. The people and the places that they went in that life and they were kind of depressed because they felt like they had, those people had died.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:13Danny Jones?

  And they were going through actual like trauma from it.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. No, exactly.

• 47:17Danny Jones?

  What the fuck dude?

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and of course it's like. You know, choose your own adventure, right? I mean, it's really, you've got to be careful, like. You know, I I'm very careful about what I let in in terms of like, I don't tend to watch horror films. I don't, because it it tends to sit in your subconscious and it's a storehouse. And I, you know, I'm very conscious about like what I'm what I'm experiencing. So I'm driving my point of view to access the field of view, much like my journaling practice. So I've been writing a journal for my entire life. I don't know whether you write a journal, but it's an incredible practice, again, very psychedelic. Because I'm able to jump out of point of view and go into field of view. So I can go into the whole like, uh, let me just show you this. So I can go into the whole space and explore it from a,

• 48:04Speaker 03

  you know, from this kind of like field of view perspective. And what's amazing is that I that I ended up really going into um, going to town with this. So this is the structure. So I I have three different levels to the journal. So I write content, what I did, and that's all written in a word document. And that's the doing aspect. Then what I felt is captured through video mostly. That's context, so that's the feeling element. And then notebooks is all like written by hand. And again, the hyperhuman thing is all about whole brain activity. So whole brain activity is like playing an instrument, singing, writing, all of these things that we're losing because of the way we're using technology. Right. But what I find interesting about having this database now of like almost forty years of data

• 48:49Speaker 03

  is that I've got thinking, feeling, doing, which is actually the perfect data set for an AI. Well, I'm not going to go there. But um, but you know, I think what what's interesting is that uh, you know, as Kirk God says, life must be lived forwards, but can only be understood backwards. So unless you have a trace of what you've done, and of course, we have our memories. But I can do, I can do things with this diary where I can look, take cross sections through it. So I look at this day, last year, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before. Yeah. And get forty different me's communicating again. And wisdom is gained by taking a higher order perspective on your perspective. And it's all about this kind of sense making and understanding your life as a whole. And it's like, you know, you're you actually don't want to be this kind of like middle of the road

• 49:34Speaker 03

  character. You want to have the extreme highs and the extreme lows because that's what makes makes you you, right? The whole the whole character. So I can actually say if I've been in a relationship for a year, I can read that whole relationship in an afternoon and get suddenly get a bird's eye view over that relationship and see patterns start to emerge that I'd never never noticed in real time.

• 49:56Danny Jones?

  Right, that you could have a blind spot too.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, and and it's, you know, I live my life in order to write my diary and I write my diary in order to live my life. So it forces me to get new material for the body of work. I have to maximize each day. And and it also reveals the spiral like we we think we're going in a linear sort of evolution, but actually we're we're moving through this kind of spiral where everything's repeated, everything's revisited until you kind of resolve it. And I love this line from Zsjak, we don't really want to get what we think we want. You know, that whole thing that we live in and live in this virtual reality, this living of like, constant expectation, oh, if I get here, this will be and of course,

• 50:37Speaker 03

  for me, presence is longevity. You know, how do we how do we not live in in prediction mode? Because like, that's why I love to travel, because your brain is predicting everything. And if you stay in the same routine all day long, stay stay at home doing the same stuff, your brain never comes online. It's only when you're traveling that you don't know what's coming around the corner.

• 51:00Danny Jones?

  Designed to conserve energy.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. It's designed to survive, designed to conserve energy. So you don't actually come online unless you are doing this kind of practice where you are maximizing your day, going out and talking to strangers, like I have to have new material that isn't the same as before.

• 51:14Danny Jones?

  Novelty, right?

• 51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, novelty is key. And I think that this this kind of journaling practice is again, upgrading the headset, because I have this kind of super because I lose perspective like everyone twice a day. But suddenly I can be like, okay, now let's look at the month. And then I can see how I actually am doing shitloads of stuff that's really really good and really positive. And it's like, so this is kind of a psychedelic trip. And one of my other favorite lines is this one. I don't know if you've heard heard this Instagram channel Healing from Healing, from from my friend Adam. So you know, there's so much healing going on. We're completely overwhelmed with this kind of like, and again, in the psychedelic trip, it's like, what is the trauma that's going to be revisited and like, but I think if we focus so much on our childhood traumas and everything that's broken about us, we'll be broken.

• 51:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  You know, that's going to be the basis of our, and I think what we need to do is overcome. Not that it's like not important to heal, but it's like, if you're going to focus all day long on healing, it's kind of, you're missing the point of this 1,000 months brutal, brutally short, like meat space that is here to be enjoyed and explored and shared and.

• 52:15Danny Jones?

  That's a very good point. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, putting it in the perspective of time and 1,000 months really, really puts it all into, it, it, it really like makes you realize like, I don't want to be focusing on bullshit anymore.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  No.

• 52:33Danny Jones?

  Like focus on the things that you want to focus on.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:36Danny Jones?

  And the things that make you happy and the people around you happy.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 52:40Danny Jones?

  Have you ever tried doing research for something you want to buy online? And before you know it, you got 250 tabs open and your computer is about to short circuit? That was me when we were recently looking for new office chairs. One site says the chairs are perfect. The other site says they destroy your back. And then you run into this whole phenomena of fake reviews. And before I know it, I'm comparing foam density like I work in a furniture lab. But now I only use dupe.com's research for me tool. You just type in what you're searching for, comfortable office chair for a long recording day, and dupe does the research for you in just minutes. It filters through real sources, compares options, breaks down features, specs and pricing, and gives you a straightforward answer on what to buy and why. And my favorite part, it tells you what not to buy, which saves you from making an expensive mistake.

• 53:25Danny Jones?

  So instead of wasting your whole day, use dupe and be prepared to save yourself a ton of time and money. Just go to D U P E dot com and tell them what you're looking to buy. That's D U P E dot com to finally feel confident about what to buy.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  What we're going to look at, your fifth dose? We're going to look at, yeah, they're going back to the DMTX.

• 53:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  And we've got a nice video that I think you're going to show.

• 53:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes. That's a.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  So let me un-

• 53:53Danny Jones?

  Okay, so explain what you did here. You, did you record yourself?

• 53:58Speaker 03

  This is, this is actually a soon to be released.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  Let me see if I can get to it. There it is. dmtx.ai. So that's, that's the web address. And it's a collaboration between New Nautics, Josie and Andrew. And what we're, what we're seeing here is basically a prompt from the fifth dose of the DMTX experience for me, which was the most profound one by far. And, and yeah, once, once I'll talk you through-

• 54:30Danny Jones?

  How did you create the prompt?

• 54:31Speaker 03

  So it's, it's an engine basically that Josie has created. And we will launch it for, for use by anyone who wants to visualize their trips, basically.

• 54:42Danny Jones?

  So what do you do? You record yourself while you're tripping or what?

• 54:45Speaker 03

  No, this is just, this is a, obviously, yeah, if you, if you want to have a good, a good, like you were doing with your dreams, like try and voice record as you wake up. So I would always recommend voice recording after trips.

• 54:57Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Just because it's so, so much easier than, you know, although I do love writing by hand. If the quickness of a voice record, and then you could turn that voice record into a sort of, you know, quite a condensed prompt.

• 55:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  Which then would feed into this.

• 55:13Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Then this creates the-

• 55:15Danny Jones?

  And this will recreate your experience.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  This will recreate your trip, yeah.

• 55:18Danny Jones?

  So this was your la, your final DMTX experience?

• 55:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, this was the, the Kundalini Rush at the beginning of the experience, which I always get with DMTs, so from the base of the spine. And then you enter a space where it's like you're made of this mesh, this orange, that, you know, sort of-

• 55:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Triangular mesh. And then it's a playpen, like this thing forms a playpen where the entities get to watch you. Just like I said about the spider. And then I enter a space of like interfaces. Which is, you know, maybe partly, as you were saying, that I'm processing the fact that I'm a computer scientist and I'm always like staring at screens. And then I'm getting this kind of gooey interface with like one interface following another interface, following another interface, and it's all just incredibly complicated. And then I get this kind of reward from this octopus who hands me a key and I have to reach out at two hundred and seventy degrees in the room to grab this thing. And that seems to cause this alien takeover of the space,

• 56:17Speaker 03

  which then leads to the ultimate kind of revelation for me, which is that I'm staring at this white disc, which is like the five M E O unity space. And it's because I've always been asking, what is causing the unity that you you experience when you, you know, when you have a non dual experience and everything becomes like no longer subject object relationship, everything's one thing. And normally it's light. So you know, the five M E O breakthrough is like you become light itself. And I've always like quite kind of not in a rude way.

• 56:50Danny Jones?

  I I feel like there's different ways people could explain this. Like the way I describe this is like my soul being ejected from my body. You're like you leave back the material world behind you. Is that similar to?

• 57:01Speaker 03

  I you know, it's an interesting one. I always feel as if I'm still embodied on a five experience.

• 57:06Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  But it's it's very much the body has become part of the light.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  You know, and I'm I'm always asking, what's producing this? Because it feels like it's the ultimate reality, right? That you're, you know, you're you've you've I often think when I've done a five experience, I'm not going to come back, that I've kind of everything's gone up with me. It's like the universe is completed itself. But then, of course, you float back into your human experience and you're like, wow, like that was utterly ridiculous. And then you're kind of like bridging God with with the human experience. Now you kind of know that that's that's what you are also. But I've always asked, what's beyond the white room? Like what's creating this non dual space? And I felt like the D M T X experience bridged the D M T experience with the five M E O experience because that white disc, it was quite speeded up. But that white disc was at the bottom of my bed.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Imagine I'm cannulated up. I've got like blood going in one arm. I've got like D M T. Blood coming out this arm, D M T going in this arm. And I'm seeing this white disc and I'm like shuffling down the bed, sort of like trying to get in the hole. I must have looked hilarious on with the with the the team looking at me. But of course, I'm just like seeing this white hole, which looks like the unity experience, but I'm away from it. I'm far away from it. So I have this kind of experience of it cracking open. And as it cracks open, instead of it revealing like a duality again, it reveals a plurality of unities, as if to say, there's not just our non dual experience, but there's a multitude of unities that you're not privy to, but it still exists. And maybe it's maybe

• 58:42Speaker 03

  it's some sort of evidence of a multiverse.

• 58:46Danny Jones?

  That's bonkers.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  It was it was an extraordinary thing, because I'd always asked the question, that's when I got the key, as if to say, we're going to show you something that you don't normally get access to. And that's why I'm excited about, you know, taking these studies to the Caribbean, where we can actually do these studies in nature. Because if you think again about the context, you're doing these things in a hospital ward, where you associate, you know, hospitals with death, dying disease, and then you're actually trying to trip in that context, of course, you're not going to get optimal results. And they do their best to try and pimp out the room and like, maybe make it look like you're on the beach or whatever. Now we can actually go to the Caribbean, we can, you know, imagine the scene. So you have a light breakfast, where you go out snorkeling on the barrier reef, then you come back and you have like a three hour lomi lomi massage. And then you go into your

• 59:33Speaker 03

  DMT experience, which can be kind of curated. So, you know, you can actually increase the dose whilst you're in the trip. So when you do ayahuasca, which is around 20% DMT, now you're taking 100% DMT, but you can go in in baby steps. So you could start at like three or four milligrams and just get your toe in the water and say, okay, I'm now at least in the space. And then you can do your first bolus and get a launch. And then, you know, can we can be pulled out of it quite rapidly, because it's a curatable trip, because it's going continuously in your arm. So I really like that idea of, you know, this kind of. You know, it's much more curatable as a journey and therefore and potentially like I would

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  love to see an opportunity because one of the things I would love to do during is to draw what I'm experiencing because I'm always seeing this language at the core of my vision which is holographic, right? It's like I can walk around it and it's persistent. I always get these three motifs in a DMT trip. The first one is I see a signer at the corner of my vision, which is like, you're doing well, do more, do more, take more DMT. And then it's like, you've done enough DMT. And it's always like a female presence. Imagine like the normal signer on your TV is saying, you're doing sign language. This is always there. And then at the core of my DMT trip, I'm seeing this language that looks hieroglyphic, it's modern and ancient at the same time. I want to draw it, you know, and I've never been in a clinical study where they let you take off the

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  blindfold and actually just sit there and have your, you know, see what you're seeing in your

• 1:01:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, you were wearing a blindfold?

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  Always. Yeah.

• 1:01:11Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  That's generally what happens in a clinical trial. You're very rarely given the opportunity or the freedom to actually like, you know.

• 1:01:18Danny Jones?

  Have you tried the thing with the laser? The where you see the code in the laser?

• 1:01:22Speaker 03

  Not yet. Have you?

• 1:01:23Danny Jones?

  I've tried it, yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  How did you go?

• 1:01:24Danny Jones?

  I saw a bunch of dicks. I saw 20 trillion dicks flying through the laser at me.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:01:30Danny Jones?

  Well, the first time I saw, the first time I did it, I saw something in there where it was like a bunch of gears spinning. And then I could see code looked kind of like Sanskrit, like the shit from Lord of the Rings.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:01:41Danny Jones?

  And then, um, then I did it again, like a third time, like in the same, um, in the same setting. And then the final time I saw it, it was like infinite dicks flying at me. And I thought maybe that was like them telling me to fuck off.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  Probably, yeah. I really like that.

• 1:01:58Danny Jones?

  It was hilarious.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  Not a subtle, like, yeah, get the fuck out.

• 1:02:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  But, um, but yeah, I think what's interesting is like, because we're doing this, this project in the Caribbean, elucismind.com. And it's basically, you know, Dan Andrews involved as well. And what's interesting about it is that, like I said, 78% of people are seeing entities, but not just entities, but the children of entities. They're being introduced to their children. You know, it's like really getting completely bizarre, like in terms of, like I said, these curatable trips where people are going in.

• 1:02:31Danny Jones?

  Venus D M T.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that what's interesting is the, you know, it's the largest legal D M T X project in the world right now. We've put probably fifty people through the protocol and we're, you know, we're doing research. It's kind of seamless research in the sense that we don't want people to feel like they're research participants because they are like, you know, they're there to explore, you know, their own consciousness. And it's, you know, a lot of the time that these things in a clinical setting are kind of imposed upon you, that you will, you will follow the, the protocol and you don't have much say in like, in what, what's happening.

• 1:03:05Danny Jones?

  Anybody who does the study, has there been any participants who have never done psychedelics before?

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:03:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is a pretty hardcore like thing. I mean, I've also done, again, in the Netherlands, where I've been to these Siloasca experiences and Icebreaker on a Friday night, as you turn up at this, at this very beautiful like location in a chateau or whatever, and the first thing you try is five M E O D M T.

• 1:03:31Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  In front of everyone else. So you're sitting there with maybe fifteen other people and you, maybe your first ever drug experience is five M E O. And depending on how well you do, is then deciding your dose of your Siloasca for the main event on the Saturday.

• 1:03:47Danny Jones?

  It's so crazy, man.

• 1:03:49Speaker 03

  It really is. But I think, yeah, it's fascinating that, um, that we now have this, you know, this ability to, to do a plug and play model, which is kind of my role there. I'm kind of, I've gone from this idea of, you know, theorizing what context engineering looks like. How do we create the, the perfect pre-context and the post-context? And again, with cyberdelics, it's like, you know, some of these cyberdelic experiences are just as powerful as a psychedelic and you need to be, the, the space needs to be held. And the space needs to be designed before and after for, for real integration. Cause I think one of the big problems with altered states is that it's all about, just give me the next peak experience. Give me the next peak experience. Nobody's integrating anything.

• 1:04:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  And it's all about, it's like epiphany porn. You know, you get your, you get all these epiphanies and you don't do anything with them. You know, there's no kind of like, you know, where's your vitamin G? Have you, have you, have you been grateful for these insights that you've been given? Have you done anything with them or you're just on to the next one? So I'm really interested in this idea of altered states, curating altered traits.

• 1:04:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  What are altered traits actually look like? What behaviors do we want to, to garden, you know?

• 1:05:00Danny Jones?

  And there's also another problem with it is there's also evangelists in the psychedelic space. There's people that think psychedelics are the answer to fucking everything. And people that want to monetize it to, to the nth degree and, you know, not including, but not limited to the fucking church.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I think the whole magic bullet idea is a really dangerous one.

• 1:05:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah. I think it's not, it's definitely not for everyone, dude. There was people that definitely were not meant to do this stuff. And especially not habitually and on a, on a normal basis. But like, you know, it's like the people that get in, some people that get into this stuff, they just become like the psychedelic door knockers where they're just trying to push it on to everyone. It's the panacea for everything. It could cure, you know, it's going to cure every disease. It's going to also, you know, fix religion. It's going to bring back Jesus. You know, it's just, it's just never ending. And, you know, on top of that, it's the obvious stuff where you have a huge corporations trying to monetize it and trying to patent it. And, you know, you even see these things with like the, you know, the I begane research

• 1:06:04Danny Jones?

  that's happening right now and trying to like push it through the FDA, which is like, you know, by and large, yeah, is that a good thing? If it's done the right way, hell yeah, it's a good thing. Way better than, you know, pushing pharmaceutical drugs on people that are, you know, causing people to die and, you know, go crazy. But like, when you realize and you look behind the curtain and you see like all like the, the billion dollar corporations that are also tied to pharma that are like positioned in the perfect way. And then are already have the patents and see how they're like locked in on this. They're going to make billions of dollars. And they're gonna do whatever they're gonna, not that, not that making money is bad.

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Danny Jones?

  I'm just saying like, there's a pattern. And there's a huge system behind all of this stuff that is gonna capitalize. Anything that gets regulated, anything that becomes normal is going to get like hypersystemized and it's gonna be, they're gonna take advantage of it and they're going to just make tons of money off it, you know?

• 1:07:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I'm very lucky because I've, as a, as a participant on the Imperial trial, because I had the knowledge about how to improve the protocols. You know, Egan phones me up on Christmas and is like, I'd love you to, to come to, to join us at New Nautics as a director. And what I love about the not-for-profit approach is that it's like, what can these things really do? Like, what is the, you know, what is the real SETI of the mind? Like, you know, SETI is like, something, I think somebody donated three hundred million dollars to like, searching radio signals externally.

• 1:07:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  But what about what's going on internally when we have this much cheaper way of exploring our own consciousness? And, uh, yeah, maybe I can just talk you through some of the, some of the missions that we've got going on, because I think that it's like, uh.

• 1:07:47Danny Jones?

  By the way, is there anyone ever like, during a DMT trip where two people have done it in the same room together, has anyone ever reported like,

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:54Danny Jones?

  sharing the space together?

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  It's a good question. I know hyperspectral scan is called, no, is it hyperspectral? Hyper something at Imperial where they had two people going in at the same time. I don't think that, I don't think that's been published yet. You should get Chris Timmerman on and, uh, and explore that.

• 1:08:11Danny Jones?

  Were you gonna show us something?

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So this is, uh, New Nautics. So these are, these are some of the, the missions at the moment. Um, already mentioned the, uh, work with Hoffman. So Andrew and Hoffman, there's a video coming out of the launch of the Trace Institute.

• 1:08:26Danny Jones?

  And like I said. Endogenous DMT is very interesting.

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we were also doing a, a study with the, um, University of Florida, where there's this peptide that may be the, the brake pedal of DMT naturally occurring.

• 1:08:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  And if we can actually start to, yeah, explore what's going on.

• 1:08:44Danny Jones?

  What's the dude's name? Who's studying this again?

• 1:08:47Danny Jones?

  The gentleman that we had on who's studying this.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  Chris McCurdy.

• 1:08:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Chris McCurdy.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you want to show the little clip.

• 1:08:52Danny Jones?

  Remember Chris McCurdy, Steve?

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:53Danny Jones?

  He came in, he's so, so he thinks that Alzheimer's, see, this could be something, or not Alzheimer's, schizophrenia.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Danny Jones?

  This could be studied for schizophrenics, that if they, if their brake pedal to endogenous DMT is broken.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:04Danny Jones?

  They may just be getting too much endogenous DMT and that could be driving them crazy.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  Again, it's like, what's the hyperhuman way of doing this and what's the transhuman way? Because it's like you say, if, if people are constantly like getting too much of something, it's never, never normally a good thing. But we've got Andrew Gallimore talking through that study with UF, if, if you can play it, otherwise I'll move on to the next one.

• 1:09:29Speaker 04

  We've known since the 1950s that DMT is present in the human body and is almost certainly produced by the human brain, but we still know next to nothing about how it's controlled or regulated. But in the 1970s, an important paper was published, but which was subsequently ignored for the next half a century. This paper showed that in mammalian brain, first in rabbits and then in human cerebrospinal fluid, there was a peptide. This peptide worked to suppress endogenous DMT production by inhibiting the key enzyme in endogenous DMT production, indolethylamine methyltransferase, or INMT. Unfortunately, this paper failed

• 1:10:13Speaker 04

  to completely characterize this peptide. So we know nothing about this peptide beyond the fact that it exists and that it regulates endogenous DMT production. So what we would like to do is to complete this work, to properly isolate and characterize this peptide and increase our understanding of how it plugs into the system that regulates endogenous DMT production.

• 1:10:43Danny Jones?

  Very interesting.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  There you go. So we're, we're quite a bit of a way into that. I can't tell you too much about how that's going, but. So you've you've seen the DMTX AI one.

• 1:10:52Danny Jones?

  DMT is in everything, right? It's in every animal and every plant.

• 1:10:55Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:10:56Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  So if you just bring up the screen again, I'll talk you through some of these other ones. So DMTX AI is the is the visualizer. So that will become available soon. We're wanting to do this study with the lockout effect. So people that have been locked out of DMT, please get in touch. And then the the archaeological stuff, so we're not just looking at psychedelics, we're also looking at, let me see if I can bring this one up.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  This, so we talked a little bit about the Second Sphinx. So what what's, you know, fascinating about Egypt, and I go to Egypt with with friends and I take people on these tours where we go underneath the Giza Plateau, we go to sites that you don't normally get access to. And Filippo Biondi, who I connected with recently, has obviously identified potentially the Second Sphinx. But we're working with him to to combine his SAR data with our hyperspectral data. So we've just done a whole scan. New Nautics have done a whole scan of the Giza Plateau. So SAR data seems to reveal these buried structures, roads, et cetera, but hyperspectral data

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  detects subtle soil chemistry changes, crop marks, and associated human activity. So if there is a Second Sphinx, maybe we will be able to help corroborate that. And one of the other things was the this website that will be launched soon, which enables anyone in the community to point this satellite. So unlike Filippo with the SAR data, which he's just buying from databases that exist, this is actually.

• 1:12:32Danny Jones?

  The SAR data he's buying?

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the SAR data, he's not gathering that from a satellite, I believe. He's actually, this came up on one of your recent podcasts, that it's a database of SAR data that already exists that you can purchase. So you can buy SAR data from specific parts of the world. But what we're doing here is gathering hyperspectral data from a satellite where we can point it anywhere we want. And, you know, considering all the mysteries.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  Around Egypt, you know, one of the things that we know is that they don't necessarily want people digging into into these mysteries, but they really can't stop satellites looking into into these sites.

• 1:13:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  And so, yeah, so we're really interested in opening up the space and people that that think there may be stuff buried somewhere, whether it's pyramids or because, you know, even in even in Egypt, I think there's something something crazy like, you know, the massive amounts of stuff still on on under the under the sand.

• 1:13:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So tell me more about the Sphinx. I don't know much about the second Sphinx. I saw it. I saw it on social media, but I never actually looked at it. Did he? How did he discover this?

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  So again, with the SAR data, he's he's discovered it and.

• 1:13:44Danny Jones?

  Can you find or did you?

• 1:13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, see if you can look up, look up.

• 1:13:47Danny Jones?

  See what you can find about Filippo Biondi's second Sphinx and we can just sort of like hash it out.

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can see very sort of rudimentary where it's facing. But when you actually go into the Sphinx, in the Pools of the Sphinx, you can see on the, you know, on the, on the, on the, on the pillar that's in the middle of the Sphinx is there's two of them, you know, there's two Sphinxes. So seems to be ones about, you know, welcoming the sun and ones about the sun, sun going down. I really.

• 1:14:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  But it does, I did see the imagery of, you know, of what it looks like and it does look the right sort of size, it's covered in sand and debris. But what what an amazing thing if we find it, if there is indeed a second Sphinx.

• 1:14:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that would be insane, but like, so he found this with the satellite, the as the synthetic aperture radar stuff?

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  That's right, supposedly. And of course, it's all conjecture, much like what's going on underneath the pyramids. And I know that until this stuff's peer reviewed, then it's all just hearsay.

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  But to be fair to Filippo, he did scan the Azara shaft and the Azara shaft was scanned without him actually going there from just from the SAR data, because I take groups down there twice a year and I know there's three levels to it and I, and you know, I know where the bottom is, but in the in his scans, there is three more levels. So that gives me hope that what he's doing is is is spot on.

• 1:15:16Danny Jones?

  Okay, from the Miami Herald of all publications, viral claims of a second Sphinx at Giza are false, are of course archaeologists say they're false.

• 1:15:28Danny Jones?

  So does it have a link to like, try to find the original source of how Filippo, like what Filippo said? Did he include any imagery? Did he include any of the SAR data? Maybe it was an interview. Maybe he was just like an off the cuff statement that he said.

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  He did a full, a full world exclusive at this event in Portugal. I don't think it's been released yet, but he did go into a lot more detail in terms of, you know, his history and why he's a bit of a voice in the, in the scene where, you know, he's using this in his professional day life. But the, the positioning of it seems to be, you know, very interesting in terms of the maths, anyway.

• 1:16:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah. The thing about the, the giant shafts below the pyramid, which me, I'm not, I'm probably just not smart enough to understand how this stuff works. But like, if you look at the raw data and then, and then you look at the 3D renderings that he came up with, it's like, whoa, how did you come up with this out of this, you know? And then if you also look at the scan they did of the Kafra Pyramid, it shows two giant King's Chamber sized chambers in the center of the Kafra. And we know for a fact that those aren't there. So like, you're getting false positives on some, certain things. And anyways, I had Jeffrey Drum on. He explained it all really beautifully.

• 1:16:57Danny Jones?

  Um, you also said you were, you were scanning some other like ancient sites or something like this?

• 1:17:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. My first job, I can show you this. This is the Palace of Darius in Persepolis. This was the, yeah, I was, I was in the midst of the dot com burst. I don't know if you remember that. End of the, you're probably not old enough, but end of the nineties, 2000. So I was doing a computer science degree and, you know, learning Java programming. And then suddenly, because I had an art history background, I was, I was able to, to jump into, into doing this, this project, which is reconstructing the Palace of Darius in Persepolis.

• 1:17:36Danny Jones?

  And where is this palace?

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  This is in Iran. And this is what it looks like, like, or what it looked like. And it's a very different to Egypt. And what I find fascinating about it is that, yeah, rather than depicting warfare and conquest. It's much more focused on dignity, harmony and legitimate rule. And I got in a taxi with a with an Iranian and he was telling me about, you know, in Persia, the the king was well loved and you know, you considered considered him your dad. And when this is all just very, um, you know, probably a lot of hearsay, but Alexander the Great waltzed in and destroyed this site when it was pretty brand new and burnt it to the ground. But the the embers protected so much of the foundations, as you can see in that in that last shot. But

• 1:18:21Danny Jones?

  That's what's still standing today?

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  That's what's still standing today. I don't know how it is after the after the Iranian war. Hopefully, nothing worse. But

• 1:18:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, probably got hit with a scud as well.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  But huge, huge site. It was only used for ceremonial purposes. And, you know, people would come to see specific, you know, the light hitting specific structures. But this is the smallest part of the structure. And what I like about it is that it's all about the thresholds as you move through the space. It's all to do with like changing perception. And so, yeah, you know, just extraordinary site to to have been working on. But then I did Cistercian Abys in in Yorkshire. So I spent seven years reconstructing ancient buildings around the world. And I was very blessed to to really explore, like to still have an academic role, like it was all research projects. But to be able to spend so much time looking at these sites, and lots of them are full of sacred

• 1:19:12Speaker 03

  geometry. And what was a sort of side effect of building all these things, even though I'm building them on a 2D screen, they're 3D structures, was that I started to generate memory palaces. Do you know about memory palaces?

• 1:19:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  So what was amazing is that I started to place my PhD, because I built this, this is like Fountains Abbey.

• 1:19:33Speaker 03

  This is the reconstruction, as you can see in the in the in the inset image there. But

• 1:19:38Danny Jones?

  It's an ancient Greek idea, right?

• 1:19:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. The memory palace. Yeah, exactly. So it's this idea that you You know, you would, you would have a seven hour speech that you would then map into a, an amphitheater.

• 1:19:49Danny Jones?

  Physical space.

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, but in your head. So you would map it into a virtual piece of architecture. And then in order to trigger the seven hour speech, you just had to walk through this, this memory palace to trigger your whole seven hour speech. So it's very interesting. What did they have that we lost? And what could we regain if we start to re, you know, revisit memory palaces? Because potentially, I know a lot of people are already wearing glasses where we may get away from the tiny little bits, bits of real estate on our screen. And then we're back in the world because the whole of your 180 degree field of view becomes, becomes the, the kind of the basic interface.

• 1:20:26Danny Jones?

  Well, it's very interesting because like even when I'm listening to audiobooks on tape in my car when I'm driving, I'll, it could be Monday and I'm listening to an audiobook in my car and I'll be driving past a certain area.

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Danny Jones?

  And then Friday I'll be driving past it with just music playing.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:40Danny Jones?

  And I will remember the exact part of that book that I was listening to when I drive past like that house or that building. It's very interesting.

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Danny Jones?

  And the idea of the memory palace came from this ancient Greek guy who was in a palace that collapsed.

• 1:20:52Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:20:53Danny Jones?

  And then he had to go around the whole palace and he was like trying to remember visually who was sitting where.

• 1:20:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:58Danny Jones?

  So he could, you know, figure out where they were and try to rescue them out of there.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Danny Jones?

  And now these memory, these memory athletes who compete in these member, memory competitions, this is what they do.

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:09Danny Jones?

  They go to a physical place and like a, this, this, for example, say a house or whatever. And they'll say, okay, I gotta remember this thing. Well, part one is going to be the mailbox.

• 1:21:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:22Danny Jones?

  So I'm going to associate this crazy visual imagery of like a, a weeping coyote. And that's going to somehow link, remind, remind me about this page about something, right? And that's going to unlock the memory. So you start at the beginning. The beginning is at the mailbox of the house and you associate that with something else, right? And it's the same thing as you move through the house, the front door. You associate something else with the front door.

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  All about the associations.

• 1:21:48Danny Jones?

  It's crazy how it works.

• 1:21:49Speaker 03

  And the more vivid the association, the more likely it is to work.

• 1:21:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I had this guy who's a memory champion on the podcast and he said every time he reads a book, he reads the physical book and he reads it in a new lo, physical location.

• 1:22:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Danny Jones?

  So it's easy for him to recall the book because he remembers where he was during that time and what he was doing.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  I mean, I know like somebody was gaming and it was a Venice, they were in, they were gaming some sort of. Some sort of game about Venice and they got robbed in Venice. But because this game was like an accurate street map of the game of the of Venice. They managed to catch the thief because they knew the streets, even though they'd never been there.

• 1:22:26Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:22:27Speaker 03

  So they they're, you know, and I did a TEDx talk about this. Um, called an ecology for the reenchantment of life. And it was it was all about the side effects of doing all this 3D modeling. Like, for instance, I I became a better driver because I could see further down the road. So it done something to my peripheral vision where I was able to sort of, you know, expand my my vision. So I could sort of see further because I'm building these huge structures, even though I'm building them on 2D.

• 1:22:56Danny Jones?

  The 3D modeling programs?

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  Just and this was early 2000s. I was using 3D Max and CAD. So it really had an an impact on my consciousness doing 3D modeling. And I I would encourage everyone, not just to journal, but get on with some building of memory palaces. And you have to do it yourself. It's not something you can like play, you know. Generally, if you're if you're going through somebody else's game or whatever, it doesn't tend to to to stick. Because it's got to be something that you're building.

• 1:23:26Danny Jones?

  So you're saying by building these 3D models of real places.

• 1:23:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, reconstructions.

• 1:23:33Danny Jones?

  When you're actually there in real life, you're able to see.

• 1:23:40Speaker 03

  Even no, no, just side effects of building anything large in a 3D space.

• 1:23:45Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:23:45Speaker 03

  Meant that in real life, I would I was able to see more depth.

• 1:23:49Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:23:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was just crazy and it was like very obvious.

• 1:23:56Danny Jones?

  That's very interesting. Like it did some sort of like neuroplasticity thing to your vision by by doing some other sort of task that maybe like solidified the three dimensional depth of things in like a different language into your brain.

• 1:24:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:24:14Danny Jones?

  That's wild. What is this?

• 1:24:16Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. All right.

• 1:24:17Danny Jones?

  Oh, you found it.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  I found I found I found a.

• 1:24:20Speaker 05

  A difficult one and an easy one.

• 1:24:22Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 1:24:24Speaker 05

  So, um, his claim was made on some science journal.

• 1:24:29Danny Jones?

  Is your mic on by the way? Your mic's on?

• 1:24:31Speaker 05

  Yes, it is. So his claim was made on the science journal. Uh, you can see Filippo right there and it's like hella long.

• 1:24:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:39Speaker 05

  And this is, it's just got a bunch of stuff with math. Kind of undecipherable. However, he made his claim officially. I mean, beyond that.

• 1:24:48Danny Jones?

  Usually there's a summary. Go back to the top. If you go to the top, there should be a summary under abstract. There you go.

• 1:24:58Danny Jones?

  All right. It says, "A problem with synthetic aperture radar is that due to the poor penetrating action of electromagnetic waves inside solid bodies, the capacity to observe inside distributed, distributed targets is precluded. Under these conditions, imaging action is provided only on the surface of the distributed targets. The present work describes an imaging method based on the analysis of micro-movements in the Canum Kufu Pyramid, which are usually generated by background seismic waves. The obtained result proved to be very promising as high-resolution, full 3D tomographic imaging of the pyramid interior and subsurface was achieved.

• 1:25:38Danny Jones?

  The Kufu Pyramid, uh, becomes transparent when observed in the micro-movement domain. Based on this novelty, we have completely reconstructed internal objects observing the measuring, observing and measuring structures that have been discovered before. The experimental results are estimated by, uh, processing series of SAR images from second-generation Italian Cosmo SKYMED satellite system, determining the effect. Okay. Yeah. This is basically how it works.

• 1:26:06Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:26:07Danny Jones?

  What's he saying about the Sphinx?

• 1:26:08Speaker 05

  He breaks it all down in Matt Bell's podcast.

• 1:26:11Danny Jones?

  Okay. Oh, does he?

• 1:26:12Speaker 05

  That's, this is.

• 1:26:13Danny Jones?

  So this is where he like said it for the first time?

• 1:26:15Speaker 05

  Yes. And he, and he's got a whole chunk here describing.

• 1:26:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:20Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:21Speaker 05

  Or you can read this.

• 1:26:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but okay. Do a command F on that paper and type in Sphinx.

• 1:26:26Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:26:30Danny Jones?

  Zero.

• 1:26:31Speaker 05

  Bullshit.

• 1:26:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:26:35Danny Jones?

  It'd be interesting because like if it's buried,

• 1:26:40Danny Jones?

  why would it be in a different plane than the one that's on top of the ground right now that's been excavated already?

• 1:26:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:46Danny Jones?

  You know, why would it be that much lower?

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a great question. It's a shame I haven't got the images from his deck, but he does show.

• 1:26:54Danny Jones?

  I'd be really, I'd be really curious to find out.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Hmm, me too, man, me too.

• 1:27:00Danny Jones?

  What Jeffrey Drum told me was that they were like super pissed off that he did that.

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  Really? With the second sphinx?

• 1:27:05Danny Jones?

  The people that, no, not the second, with the, what he did was finding those shafts that are allegedly underneath the pyramids. Was because he did that and published it without ever talking to anyone in the.

• 1:27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 1:27:16Danny Jones?

  In the like Egyptian antiquities department or whatever they call it. They felt like super salty and Jeffrey was saying that like the people that he talks to there were like that guy's never gonna touch another grain of sand in the Giza desert.

• 1:27:32Danny Jones?

  Which is, you know, which is silly.

• 1:27:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Danny Jones?

  But, you know, it is what it is.

• 1:27:36Speaker 03

  It is what it is.

• 1:27:37Danny Jones?

  He's making some wild claims for sure.

• 1:27:39Speaker 03

  Definitely, but he's such a lovely chap and.

• 1:27:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he seems like it and he seems very open to pushback and he seems open to debate as well, so.

• 1:27:46Speaker 03

  He does.

• 1:27:47Danny Jones?

  And he's not the kind of guy who talks like, you know, this is absolute truth, you know, he's like, seems like he's being fair about it. Have you ever opened your fridge and blankly stared into it for five minutes, suddenly realizing you have nothing to eat? That no longer happens to me now that I'm using ButcherBox. ButcherBox delivers 100% grass-fed beef, organic chicken, wild-caught seafood and more, all sourced to standards they can actually tell you about. They've actually done the research and made the sourcing decisions, so all you have to do is decide what's for dinner. It's honestly made healthy eating easier for me because I always know I've got high-quality protein in the freezer, ready to go. And when I'm hosting people, doing a cookout or just trying not to order takeout again, it saves me a trip to the store and a lot of last-minute scrambling. I keep a few of my go-tos stocked at all times, from ground beef, chicken breasts and seafood.

• 1:28:31Danny Jones?

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• 1:29:06Speaker 03

  I mean, I can show you a bit more around Egypt, but one of the things I wanted to play was the, you know, we're talking about imprinting from memory palaces, but also the imprinting from sound. I don't know if you've ever done any like, listening to, you know, specific sounds whilst taking specific substances. But this, this one was, um, this one was interesting because it was, uh, do you want to show this one?

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  So this was actually a piece that was commissioned by Imperial College London to be played every time I was taking DMT. Okay. During the eight years of, of the study. Okay. Of the studies. And so it's a guy called Pascal Savvy that made it. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's a beautiful piece of sound, but it's also something that's been imprinted so deeply on my subconscious that even, even now, I'm, I'm starting to feel like I'm coming up on DMT. Just even the open, those opening bars. So it's, it's something that's very interesting that sound can have this potential. Yeah.

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  To imprint. And I think that one of the things when I talk about altered states and everyone trying to like, constantly like, reach the next peak experience is like, can we use different types of media? To revisit these experiences without the need for the drug, you know, I think that that's that's for me as a professor.

• 1:30:40Danny Jones?

  I'd be curious if they would have gave you some like a put a specific smell in the room.

• 1:30:44Speaker 03

  Yes, smell as well.

• 1:30:45Danny Jones?

  Because you know, smell is like one of the strongest senses or the strongest sense tied to memory.

• 1:30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I run this project called the Museum of Consciousness and we we've done that where we've combined smell and sound.

• 1:30:56Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  And what we'll do is we'll actually get people to smell something before a sound transmission and then smell it after to see if the sound has had an impact on your on your senses and whether you've actually improved your sensitivity to smell. But this is called reminiscence therapy. So a lot of people with Alzheimer's, when you play them music that they've loved in their lives, suddenly they come back online. It's like they're they're plugging back into a an older version of themselves.

• 1:31:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:31:25Speaker 03

  But the Museum of Consciousness, I started specifically around sound because I think we've we've started to misuse sound. And I think, you know, one of our artists, we've got a hundred artists in the museum, and one of our artists from called Tritha, she's, you know, she's telling me that in the 11th century in India, they'd already found the sounds and frequencies to heal specific organs.

• 1:31:45Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  You know, in the 11th century. So what what have we lost with the way we're listening to sound now on Spotify on our phones? You know, I've got I've got vinyl at home, like 10,000 records. And when I put on a record, I don't skip. You know, it's a physical thing where I'm playing the record, I'm listening more deeply. And I think that it's it's a real a really missed opportunity to to deeply listen to sound, especially when you can go and have a long form experience. We do five, six hour shows, we've done them all over the world. And I did a show in New York with New Yorkers on a Sunday. And people are like, nobody's going to stay for more than 20 minutes. You're insane. But I actually put them on uncomfortable seats as well, because I wanted them to like, just be blown away by the sound. So the challenge to the artist is, can you create a 20 minute piece

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  of sound that will change consciousness in a reliable, measurable way?

• 1:32:36Speaker 03

  That will be timeless, that works across culture, that works across gender, that works works across. And of course, there's so much pseudoscience in the space.

• 1:32:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  That, you know, there's this, use this frequency to cure your ADHD, use this frequency to cure cancer. And we do, we go to Egypt and we actually explore the archoacoustics of these spaces, because each space seems to have some sort of fundamental frequency that is even being replicated elsewhere, like in the Great Pyramid in Egypt.

• 1:33:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Speaker 03

  The 120, 117 to 120 hertz is the same in Chichen Itza, you know, so they've seemed to be tapping into something that is, so this is the typical sort of tour where we're going underneath the Giza Plateau, we're doing abu ruch, we go underneath step pyramid, we, you know, we do the private permission at the Serapeum, and we use our voices. And this is, this is what I wanted to show, which is the brainwaves. So this is us testing our brainwaves, 10 of us in the King's Chamber.

• 1:33:39Speaker 06

  So this is a measurement of Carl's brainwaves. And as you can see, his delta is way higher than anything else, suggesting that he should be asleep. Gamma, very, very low, theta low. This is like so chilled and relaxed.

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  So what is it about the architecture that's putting me into that state? And then we, I walked.

• 1:33:59Danny Jones?

  So that's, that's the same sort of brainwaves you would see on somebody who's asleep?

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  Yes, right. That's right. And this is actually supposedly the sound hospital in Saqqara. Of course, again, contentious, like a lot of the stuff we talked about. But, you know, I find it fascinating that they've got these, these, these boxes, which seem to be like organized in specific ways, and you tone into these boxes, and they seem to have some sort of discernible effect on, on your physiology. And I'm just like, what is going on? And now we know that there's this term called histotripsy, which is using focused sound waves to mechanically liquefy tumor tissue without surgery. So the power of sound, I mean, there's again, these are some of the references, but this is, this is, this is, this is like, you know, 2025.

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  Histotripsy, what a great term. But you know, I think that we-

• 1:34:52Danny Jones?

  And liver cancer treatment.

• 1:34:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we don't know, like, I think we don't know the power of sound and we don't know what in the ancient world they were doing with sound and, and that's why I'm obsessed with it and, you know, when I see people tripping on sound, so I'll, we'll do like five, five sound transmissions, imagine you're cooking with sound and each, each sound transmission is part of a stack where we're creating a meal and I want people to come stone cold sober to these events. I, I control the context. I don't allow there to be a bar and people say, oh, I'm taking acid. I'm like, I don't want you to take acid. I want you to come here sober as a judge and I want the, the sound alone to put you into an altered state. That has a, has an altered trait effect, you know, that it is a lasting effect.

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  So yeah, so I'm obsessed with sound and I just think that it's, uh, you know, it's an extraordinary thing.

• 1:35:44Danny Jones?

  Um, what were you doing in Antarctica?

• 1:35:47Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Antarctica, I did a museum of consciousness. That was the invite.

• 1:35:51Danny Jones?

  A museum of, uh, one of these things?

• 1:35:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I did, I did one in the, in the Amazon where the invite was like, can you play sound to the trees, the plants and the animals? No human audience. So it was like a concert to nature, which again, sounds beautiful on, on the tin.

• 1:36:07Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  Then what's appropriate to play to trees? You know, what's, you know, what, what, what, what can you play that will not mean that the birds abandon their nests because they think it's an alien invasion of sound they've never heard before. And then like, you know, you actually was, the net result is that you actually caused the net loss of life in, in the Amazon. So that was kind of before Antarctica. And again, I'm, I'm getting invited to really strange locations to explore the future of humanity. So I talk a lot about this hyperhuman project. Cause I think there is a fork in the road where we're, where we really have to like understand that what we're going to have left after AI has come and like, taken most things. It will be

• 1:36:49Speaker 03

  our subjective embodied experience that it can't have. So I think this dialogos, like being in communitas, like understanding that you, you know, you, you have this, like we said, short lifespan to really explore what it is to be the human. And let's be the human whilst we can, because I think that so many people are going transhuman, they're thinking about installing Neuralink or whatever it is. And it's like, I don't want to have my mobile phone in my head. You know, I wanna have my mobile phone as far away from me as possible.

• 1:37:19Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, what was it like doing this shit in Antarctica?

• 1:37:23Speaker 03

  Oh, it's amazing. Like to to go to a place where you see so much nature thriving without us there.

• 1:37:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:32Speaker 03

  It was humbling. It was humbling. And and it was a longevity like focus. So it was a lot of a lot of, you know, looking at, you know, what's the again, what's what's what's the future of of the human in a in a space where, at one point I was kayaking with like twenty five humpback whales surrounding me.

• 1:37:52Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:37:53Speaker 03

  And it was like, just so humbling to to experience that sort of and and, you know, very privileged to be able to go to such a space. And to go through the Drake Passage, you know about the Drake Passage?

• 1:38:05Danny Jones?

  I've heard of it.

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  So you go to Ushuaia, which is the southernmost tip of Argentina, to get on the boat.

• 1:38:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  And then you go through a psychedelic experience, which is called the Drake Shake, which is basically two and a half days of thirty foot waves.

• 1:38:21Danny Jones?

  Show us the Drake Passage, Steve.

• 1:38:24Speaker 03

  And.

• 1:38:24Danny Jones?

  Two and a half days.

• 1:38:25Speaker 03

  Two and a half days. And it's like, a lot of people like just dropped out, even though they'd spent a fortune getting on this trip. They were like, they couldn't, they couldn't take the, they just couldn't take it. Cause it's like an initiation. You have to go through the Drake Passage to get into Antarctica, which is like you you've got another four days doing all these little expeditions.

• 1:38:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:42Speaker 03

  We did seventeen expeditions. And it's, yeah, it's, we we got super lucky, cause there was a, you know, that, you know, we we had the Drake Lake, which was two days, two and a half days of probably the calmest Drake Passage that they'd ever experienced. And on the way back, though, we got, we got it, we got it in abundance. And if you if you think of a hurricane at twelve, we had nine out of twelve. So we were on the way back experiencing the full Drake Shake. And it was no, I mean, you get thrown out of bed in the morning and you're like, you think you're gonna die. And then you actually go and speak to the woman in reception and she's like, oh, this is nothing. I've been on the boat for eight months.

• 1:39:24Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:39:24Speaker 03

  I don't even feel like I'm, I've, I just imagine I'm in a, in a really nice, nice hotel.

• 1:39:29Danny Jones?

  Did you get seasick?

• 1:39:30Speaker 03

  I did not.

• 1:39:31Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:39:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was lucky.

• 1:39:33Danny Jones?

  How long does it take? So you said four days to get from that, the tip of South America.

• 1:39:37Speaker 03

  Two, two and a half days to get into Antarctica proper. And I loved.

• 1:39:41Danny Jones?

  And once you get to that, you go, you go right to that tip of Antarctica, right there?

• 1:39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then you're doing all these little expeditions on smaller boats.

• 1:39:50Danny Jones?

  How far south do you go from there?

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  Not very far. I mean, you're, you're really exploring, exploring and it's.

• 1:39:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're not gonna show you all the alien bases.

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Nah, exactly. But you do see what looks like, you know, crazy, crazy ice walls. But it's just such, I mean, I highly recommend it. And it is one of those places where, yeah, you, you know, you, you really bond with people because you're, you're seeing things that very few people have. And, uh, yeah, I would love to go back.

• 1:40:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's something about those kind of novel experiences and when you do that and you experience that and you get back to like normal, everyday, like society, like get back to the civilized world. It's like depressing almost.

• 1:40:29Speaker 03

  It really, it really makes you realize like.

• 1:40:32Danny Jones?

  It's like, oh, man, this sucks compared to that.

• 1:40:35Speaker 03

  Seeing a hundred thousand penguins in different colonies and like leopard seals eating penguins for breakfast.

• 1:40:41Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, incredible.

• 1:40:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird thing, you know, I feel like some people are really going to resist technology and then there's other gonna be, there's gonna be other people that, I mean, obviously there are people that just, they're just, they wanna accept it just to integrate, you know, like Elon thinks it's inevitable that we're gonna integrate. You know, he's already fucking putting probes in people's heads.

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that, you know, when I talk about hyperhumanism, it's not a Luddite approach. It's not about going anti-tech. I think tech is fundamental.

• 1:41:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:13Speaker 03

  I think we are human because of tech.

• 1:41:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  Tech, technique, you know.

• 1:41:17Danny Jones?

  Exactly. Yeah, we are, we are what we are specifically because of technology, right? Because of fire.

• 1:41:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's, it's foolhardy to think that we're gonna be, you know, a species without technique. I think that it's, you know, we are here to, to expand our senses, to, to explore all of these things. But I think that it, you know, we can use AI to become more human. For me, that's the, the crux of it. It's like, how do we understand what we've atrophied? Because of, let me just show you a couple more slides on this idea of hyperhumanism, because I think you'll, you'll get it once I explain it like this.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  So I think, you know, when we're, when we're, um, when we're looking at, um, you know, the, the transhuman vision is one of engineering, like we are an engineering problem to be solved. Like, that's, you know, how a lot of these longevity experts talk about. But I think life is a mystery to be, to be lived, not a problem to be solved. I think this, um, you know, it's a collective thing. It's not a hyper individualized, individualized thing. I think to be able to feel pleasure, I must pause, pause the facilities of doing, achieving, performing and become an instrument of sensation. How many of us are like dropping into pure consciousness, like on a, on a regular basis?

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Because we're in this cult of productivity that we, we constantly have to produce to be feeling like we're worth, worth something.

• 1:42:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  And I think it's also this, it's like a multi-generational project, right? Knowing the difference between those who-

• 1:42:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, who is the guy who had the famous quote that we are the sex organs of the machine world?

• 1:42:56Speaker 03

  I haven't heard that one.

• 1:42:57Danny Jones?

  That might have been McKenna.

• 1:42:59Speaker 03

  That could be, that sounds like McKenna.

• 1:43:00Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:43:01Speaker 03

  But just that whole idea of like, what are you doing now that will benefit the next five generations or 50 generations? You know, what, it's a multi-generational project. I think so much of it's about unlearning all the cultural programming. Again, McKenna talked about like how culture is not your friend and you need to make your own culture. And I think one of the other big things about hyperhumanism is learning to die before you die, you know? Cause I think death is extraordinary and it's something that we should not try and avoid. I mean, it's like, we're already like living, how many, what is it? The resources of the average American being used is like for five planet Earths. So all the mystery schools talk about like the mini death of, of, you know-

• 1:43:42Danny Jones?

  The mystery schools?

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  The mystery schools of like ancient Greece, Eleusis, you know, or we call it Eleusis, but it's Eleusis is the correct terminology.

• 1:43:53Danny Jones?

  Elephsis?

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  Elephsis, yeah. So the Greek mystery schools, all the Greek philosophers went through um elephsis and this was like the inner mysteries and the outer mysteries. Kirk, um Kirkion may have been a psychedelic that was used, but they went through these

• 1:44:08Danny Jones?

  System era rescue stuff?

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  This is Brian, um, what's his, but yeah, if you type in elephsis, you might, you might pick up some stuff on it. But, but for me, it's like, yeah, like, you know, hyperhumanism, let's explore what it means to go into darkness. That's another one of our studies that.

• 1:44:24Danny Jones?

  Do you think that it's possible that like psych, that like drugs being used in antiquity could have been like what inspired someone like the great philosophy and, and intellect that came out of that realm?

• 1:44:36Speaker 03

  Well, we, we still don't know. I mean, a lot of people think elephsis was all about um opium rather than an acid like.

• 1:44:44Danny Jones?

  Well, ergot, right? That's what they theorize was?

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  That's one of the theories, but other, other people I know, it's the same with soma. Soma supposedly like, uh, you know, one of the world leading experts, Matthew Clark on it, he says, depending on which part of India you're in, it was a head up to a hundred ingredients, not just one. So let's have a look at uh the Eleusin mysteries.

• 1:45:07Danny Jones?

  Elephsis is what he said. Yeah, I know what the Eleusin mysteries are.

• 1:45:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:11Speaker 05

  How do you?

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  No, you got, you got, no, elephsis is just the pronunciation that how you would.

• 1:45:16Danny Jones?

  It's just a different pronunciation.

• 1:45:17Speaker 05

  It's the same word as Eleusin.

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, we say it wrong, basically.

• 1:45:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, it was weird because that was like a.

• 1:45:23Speaker 03

  Brian.

• 1:45:24Danny Jones?

  Brian Marrescu, yeah. Yeah, he wrote the immortality key.

• 1:45:27Speaker 03

  He's, he's amazing.

• 1:45:29Danny Jones?

  Have you met with him?

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  I have, yeah, yeah. And of course, his research is, is astonishing. But in terms of hyperhumanism, like we, you know, fasting, thousand different types of meditation, many, many different types of dance. And if you're doing a lot of this grounding foundational work, so if you do a darkness retreat for seventeen days, I was talking to Aubrey Marcus about this, I think he did eight days and he was tripping harder than any other drug that he'd ever done.

• 1:45:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:56Speaker 03

  Um, and you know, I think that it's, you know, it's an extraordinary thing to be able to explore this kind of like. Lack, you know, I mean, again, my friend Jack Allocca, he did a vision quest and he had to create a memory palace in order to survive, you know, because I would, I couldn't do the past. Have you ever done the past, the ten day sort of silent meditation where you're not allowed to even look at anyone else in the room? It's like sitting still for ten hours a day, no writing, no media, just constant going into.

• 1:46:29Danny Jones?

  That sounds amazing.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  I, I, yeah, I would, I would.

• 1:46:32Danny Jones?

  I feel like my, I feel like my life would unravel if I did that.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  Exactly. Constantly, constantly writing is, is kind of my go to. But as McLuhan says here, every, every, he warned against too much human extension into technology and said every media extension of man is an amputation.

• 1:46:53Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:55Danny Jones?

  Marshall McLuhan said this?

• 1:46:56Speaker 03

  Marshall McLuhan, yeah. And, and below there, you've got the hot versus cold media, which is again, another really interesting McLuhan approach to media. So your cold media would be your books and your radio shows where you are filling in the gaps, you're co-creating. So when you read a book and then you see the film adaption, you feel like it's not like this because you've already made that world. You've built the world in your mind from reading the book, right? Because you're building the visuals. Same with like listening to a radio show, you, you may have imagined the characters to be a certain way. Whereas hot media would be your, your CGI film where it's all done for you. It's all like just popcorn. You're not, you're not really part of it. So just, so that's why with the, with the cold media, with the museum of

• 1:47:38Speaker 03

  consciousness, I'm always like trying to get people into going into their own imagination. I don't tell people about this.

• 1:47:44Danny Jones?

  You're filling in the gaps. Your imagination is doing the work there. The hot, the hot stuff, it's doing all the hard work for you. It's giving you the visuals, the sounds, the smells, everything like that.

• 1:47:53Speaker 03

  And then the, the top right there, this, this was.

• 1:47:55Danny Jones?

  Which is probably, it's probably better, easier to remember stuff when you have to fill it in internally.

• 1:48:01Speaker 03

  And that's exactly what I mean about like, you know, having the human experience, like we're, we're now outsourcing all of our creativity. You know, we're, we're not having the experience. We're like almost giving the, the poetry over to the machine. You know, my friend Donnie Savage, you know, he does this incredible. Um. Ancient Future Collective's course where he's teaching people sound production. Mm hmm. And then you've got, you know, Egan, who who I love dearly, he's like, you know, using AI to to make incredible tracks, but it's like, you know, what would you rather do? Would you rather be the musician or co-op that to to the machine? And I think a lot of people will still want to have those skills themselves.

• 1:48:44Speaker 03

  But this was a study we did with young kids and we asked them, what would you rather lose? Your sense of smell or your smartphone? And they all chose to lose their sense of smell. That's funny. And then, of course, you lose your sense of smell, then your sense of taste goes. Then your sense of reality. Mm hmm. So it's like, what do you, what do you, you know, what do you teach the young kids? And I think this is the key thing about hyperhumanism. It's like, it's a scaffold for amplifying our latent abilities that we already have. You know, whether it's about in your your intuition, whether it's about your intention, your your embodied intelligence, relational awareness. And practicing it through liminal states. I don't know if you know hypnagogic or hypnopompic states. Uh uh.

• 1:49:24Speaker 03

  So that's when you're falling asleep and you may come up with some ideas or generally when you wake up. That's why I have a notebook next to my bed. Yeah. Uh. If I'm really tired, like, you know, I was prepping for this interview interview. I will generally go to sleep going, what? Try and solve this in my dreams. I'll actually go in with a problem to solve. Yeah. And then when I wake up, then I'll then I'll get a download and I'll be busily writing down what I've been what's been revealed to me. That's about utilizing liminal states. We talked about peripheral vision. So like, as we are here, stop looking at me, look into a whole hundred and eighty degree vision as a as an image. And you'll notice your physiology starts to calm down within thirty seconds. So athletes do this before a big race. I do it before a big talk.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  And it's such an amazing, easy way to just break out of your, like, locked in focus. And do it as you walk down the street. Try and like to see as far as you can into your peripheral. Yeah. As possible, as you walk down the street. It's incredible. You know, none of us know how to breathe anymore. We're all breathing really shallowly, like, I'm I'm I'm always like, um, you know, if I could solve my breathing, I think everything else would unlock. A bit like your jaw, you know, with the jaw. If I just pulled out something.

• 1:50:37Speaker 03

  With your jaw, like you know this whole fascia, like the human garage guys where they basically say if you unlock your jaw, the rest of you kind of unlocks because you were holding so much tension in the jaw. So it's really just like, same with the breath. We get the breath right, then everything kind of falls into line and like.

• 1:50:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's a foundation of everything physiological, just the breath.

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. So yeah, so I'm really interested in this. And this is a great quote from Huberman.

• 1:51:08Danny Jones?

  When people do something they don't want to do, like add three hours of exercise per day or per week, or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight resist eating something. Right. When people do anything that they, and this is the important part, that they don't want to do. Right. It's not about adding more work. It's about adding more work that you don't want to do. Yes. This brain area gets bigger. Yep. The anterior mid-singuloid cortex is smaller in obese people.

• 1:51:40Danny Jones?

  It gets bigger when they diet. It's larger in athletes. It's especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as challenged and overcome some challenge. Scientists are starting to think of the anterior mid-singuloid cortex not just as one of the seats of willpower. Right. But perhaps actually the seat of the will to live.

• 1:52:04Speaker 03

  It's a love, you know?

• 1:52:05Danny Jones?

  That's very interesting.

• 1:52:06Speaker 03

  That whole thing, if you start enjoying the ice paths, that's not good.

• 1:52:10Danny Jones?

  If you start enjoying the ice path, I don't think that's possible.

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  I know. Some people are crazy out there, aren't they? So it's like.

• 1:52:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, the problem with that is like, you know, would it, would it work because you know you're getting a benefit from it, right? Obviously, you really don't want to fucking do it, but you know it's going to pay off in the end.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:30Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:52:31Danny Jones?

  But to do, to do anything else seems kind of like nihilistic, right? Like, why do something that's not going to be good for you or benefit you at all that you know is going to suck?

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:44Danny Jones?

  Like even people that walk on coal, you know, like people have these seminars where people will like to get, go barefoot and they'll walk across a bed of coals to like, to like, prove that they have some divine willpower and things like this. Like, well, if you, if you have the belief that you're going to greatly benefit from this.

• 1:53:06Danny Jones?

  Then, you know, how much power does the belief have?

• 1:53:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:11Danny Jones?

  To get you to overcome some insanely physical demanding task like that, right? And does it work in this context?

• 1:53:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:19Danny Jones?

  I don't know.

• 1:53:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. So what are your go-tos when you're trying to like, uh, improve your human experience? Do you do breathwork? Do you do like ice baths?

• 1:53:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I try all of that crazy stuff for sure.

• 1:53:36Danny Jones?

  I don't know. I mean, DMT is a fun one. I really enjoy DMT. I'm not a really big psychedelic type person. Like, I've never done crazy amounts of mushrooms, only like microdose.

• 1:53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:46Danny Jones?

  But, um, you know, I was very interested when I heard about the, the DMT laser experiment with the Seeing the Code with Danny, Danny Gohler.

• 1:53:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:57Danny Jones?

  And that was the first time I tried DMT.

• 1:53:59Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:53:59Danny Jones?

  Was with the friggin laser.

• 1:54:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Danny Jones?

  And, uh, you know, it's, it's like a,

• 1:54:05Danny Jones?

  I, I feel like it's something that you can do maybe once or twice, for me at least, a year.

• 1:54:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:11Danny Jones?

  And I can get like insane benefit from it.

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:14Danny Jones?

  And I think that it's beneficial in the fact that it's like so terrifying, at least for me before, beforehand, because I'm, I'm a pussy when it comes to doing drugs, right? I'm like, I'm, I'm super, I'm a lightweight. So especially I know that from my experience with marijuana. So going into the DMT thing, I was freaking out, like I was so terrified.

• 1:54:33Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:34Danny Jones?

  Um, and there's something to that, like overcoming that fear, I think. And another problem is I had like a preconception, preconceived notion of like what was gonna happen and what it was gonna be like, because I've listened to so many people tell stories about it.

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:47Danny Jones?

  And, you know, one time recently, I had a crazy experience on it where I was having a, like a telepathic conversation with the trees in my backyard. And they were, they were explaining stuff to me, not in language, but in like, through feelings. Like they were impregnating me with feelings and emotions about certain things.

• 1:55:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:10Danny Jones?

  And it was like, the gist of it was, and I only remember this because I immediately recorded it after and listened back to the recording. Was that like the earth is they were like birthed here and this is their home and it's not our home and we're sort of like alien to this place and we're we're transients.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:31Danny Jones?

  And like that they know the truth about the world and about reality and that like it's impossible for me to ever know that and I'm naive.

• 1:55:39Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:55:40Danny Jones?

  And you know, it was very profound for me for weeks afterwards. Like I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I was like, this must be true. This is crazy. This like, like human beings and we are NPCs or just players in a video game almost. Right? And um, I it I took so much meaning out of it, but then I started to think about it more and I'm like, you know, have I heard things like this? Have people explained these ideas to me before? Or is this all completely new to me?

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:56:12Danny Jones?

  No, but people have explained this stuff to me and this is stuff I've heard before. So how much of like my deep inner psyche or things that I've heard before that I may not be able to fully articulate yet are bubbling up to the surface here?

• 1:56:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:26Danny Jones?

  You know, I can't, I'm racking my brain on that and I don't know. But that, does that mean you can't get great benefit from something like that? Absolutely not.

• 1:56:35Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:56:36Danny Jones?

  But like, if you want to boil it down to like, it's pure materialist form and try to like weigh this and measure this in like a scientific way and figure out what it is. Could that be what it is? I think possibly.

• 1:56:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:56:50Danny Jones?

  Like, is this God? Is this spirits? Is this some sort of like, are these deities? You know, people, people put their own translation on anything they on on all of the, you know, everyone has their own flavor of what the reality of this stuff really is.

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:57:02Danny Jones?

  And I'm trying to like, figure out like, uh, get cut through all that shit.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:07Danny Jones?

  And like, what is it really? But then I go, then I, then I think like, does it really matter? You know, maybe not.

• 1:57:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah, no, it's uh, I mean, this is why I'm I'm obsessed with this idea of Umwelt hacking. Have you heard of this term?

• 1:57:19Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:57:20Speaker 03

  So Umwelt hacking is like your sensorial system and every species has a very different Umwelt, right? So I'll give you an example. Let me just show you this one. So for instance. This lobster, right? A lobster's brain is located in its throat, its nervous system in its abdomen, its teeth in its stomach and its kidneys in its head. It also hears using its legs, tastes with its feet. So imagine like plunging into this umwelt and of course, like we've, there's cyberdelics like Marshmallow Laser Feast have done this experience to be, to be, you know, in this, you know, a mosquito or they use VR to try and create these experiences.

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  But I think the key thing that we're sort of up against is like the, you know, this was kind of how we've been portrayed, like the, the, the, the kind of humanist perspective is that we're the apex creature. Whereas actually what's, what's actually going on is that we're part of a nested ecology. And unless we actually get with the program, we're, we're going to find that we, you know, that we get rid of the bees or something happens that we, we can't actually survive. So I'm always like, well, what's it like to be like having compound eyes? Or hear from Merlin, he says, what's it like to be a fungus if you had a, had no head, no heart, no center of operations?

• 1:58:42Danny Jones?

  I've heard of this dude.

• 1:58:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's amazing. So, but he's just done an amazing.

• 1:58:46Danny Jones?

  Is he related to Rupert?

• 1:58:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, son of Rupert. And he's just done a big study, looking at the, the fungal networks across the world and like trying to understand. I think it's some incredible stat about how many, how long these networks are and how many times you go to the, to the, to the sun, like countless times. But, but yeah, just that, that, that is a trip, right? And it's called the Wood Wide Web. So being able to see all of this kind of sharing, like no, no billionaires hoarding, but just sharing when you're in abundance.

• 1:59:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  Just that ability to, to, to really understand that there is another operating system that we're, we're not privy to. This is ants performing surgery.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  So this intelligence that's like now being revealed, you know, we, we only used to think that dolphins were conscious and so much else was, this is like leg being removed.

• 1:59:44Danny Jones?

  He's eating his leg?

• 1:59:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like.

• 1:59:46Danny Jones?

  Why the hell are they doing that?

• 1:59:47Speaker 03

  It's performing surgery.

• 1:59:48Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:59:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:52Speaker 03

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• 2:00:22Speaker 00

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• 2:00:48Speaker 03

  Incredible, right? And then you've got this guy, you know, this, this, this umvelt. Freezes solid in winter, no breathing, no heartbeat, no blood flow, brain silent. Then in spring, it thaws out alive like nothing ever happened. You know, just this incredible range of different experience. And this, this term, nature on the board. So big corporations now have to have the voice of nature. For any policy change they need, they need to, to have the voice of nature. Now, with AI, we're starting to see that that may happen because we've got earthspecies.org, which is using large language models to decode the languages of all these other species. Dolphins may be the first communication that we open up, but Project SETI's revealed

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  that sperm whales have their own phonetic alphabet. We've got plant signaling. So in terms of this, this sort of like interspecies communication, like you're experiencing with the tree. Yeah. You know, maybe this actually starts to be made available through AI. So it's kind of a fascinating, you know, one of the best news stories, I think. Also, although, are we gonna like what they have to say? Probably not, because they're gonna just tell us we're a bunch of fucks. Yeah. You know, like, this is what's coming. So it's like, there's funky languages. It's, you know, it's just, just crazy. So, yeah, we, we, we know that there's language there, but we don't have an, an iota about what it means. Again, I was talking to Anil Seth, and he went out on an expedition,

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  and they were playing some of this whale language to the whales. And the whales came. But we're very distressed because what it turned out was that that piece of language was actually a distress call. So they all expected a whale to be in distress when they came. But you know, you can only really observe animal, you know, animal behavior to see what is actually going on with this with this revealing of these languages.

• 2:02:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I'm always curious like what the government knows about this stuff and what like the government research is being done on this stuff, you know, because we know DARPA is investigating psychedelics and they're using it for certain things. And like, even if you want to go to nature, like, we know, like, there's the military is like, putting surveillance shit on dolphins and using like militarizing like wild animals, whales, there's like spy whales, spy dolphins, there's they get dolphins to like, do sabotage on like submarines and underwater cables and stuff like that. It's crazy like what we do to nature.

• 2:03:17Speaker 03

  It is.

• 2:03:17Danny Jones?

  Right? Like, and, you know, we know the government has been experimenting with psychedelics for a long time. And in the context of like, things like remote viewing and like the Stargate stuff and all that crazy kind of parapsychology type thing, you know, and and what what seems to be evident is that there's a definite correlation with the emergence of the technological mind and the atrophy of like, this psychic mind.

• 2:03:50Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:03:51Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 2:03:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:03:52Danny Jones?

  Like, the more technology becomes part of us.

• 2:03:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:57Danny Jones?

  The the less of this, whatever you want to call psychic mind, whatever that is.

• 2:04:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're cutting, we're cutting off.

• 2:04:02Danny Jones?

  It seems to go away.

• 2:04:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:04Danny Jones?

  And it makes you wonder, like, you know, were human beings, you know, a million years ago, were they before before we had language? Was there some sort of other way of communication, like an intuitive language?

• 2:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:17Danny Jones?

  People able to just sort of like communicate feelings, the same way that tree was communicating feelings to me?

• 2:04:22Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I mean, I remember like lying in bed as a kid and just being at this being on the ceiling, like not having this kind of distance. And then it's ingrained upon you like you're Carl, you're Carl, you're Carl, you're Carl. And then I separated from the tree, you know, I had this kind of like real like. Farewell, almost like, oh, fuck, now it's language seems to be at the cause of a lot of this distancing from, you know, this non-dual reality. And of course, you know, I am both of us and so are you. It's like, but it is, it is language, it is technique, it is the distancing, which seems to be accelerating. Like you said, it's like we, we are, you know, channeling a lot of our core ideas.

• 2:05:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, if you, if you really distill technology down to its base, not, not technology. I mean, I always say like that distilled would be, it would be mathematics. But like, if you wanted to distill everything, like the, the, where we are in today's world, like, like miscommunication, or whether it be intentional or by mistake, right? It's, it's language.

• 2:05:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:27Danny Jones?

  Is that, is that one thing?

• 2:05:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:29Danny Jones?

  Language is inherently deceptive.

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:05:32Danny Jones?

  You know, it's very interesting. It's very interesting how that has sort of like spiraled into where we are today, where it's now you have not just language, but we have language in the form of video and audio on across all these different mediums that are constantly getting piped into our, you know, our televisions, our phones, what have you.

• 2:05:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I was reading recently about if you are bilingual, you're much more likely to survive, not necessarily survive, but survive in a positive way after a stroke. Because you've got more sort of neural matter that's, uh, that's kind of available to you. Because like, you know, if you're

• 2:06:14Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Typical Englishman just speaks the, the, the one language, you're more at risk. So I think, yeah, language is, is one of those things that is a, uh, yeah.

• 2:06:25Danny Jones?

  Have you ever heard the story of, um,

• 2:06:29Danny Jones?

  Terrence McKenna and his brother. When they went to the Amazon or Columbia, I think La La Chorrera. And they were taking mushrooms and they were eating just basically mushrooms for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And they were like on a constant trip for like two weeks. And they were explaining or um. Not Terrence, but his brother was explaining how they were communicating telepathically the whole time.

• 2:06:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can believe it, especially.

• 2:06:56Danny Jones?

  And there was this one chemical that was called like telepathine. That they ended up changing the name for it because it like wasn't scientific. You know, that that's very, it's very interesting, you know, if you could put, if you could, if you could do an experiment. You know, similar to like D M T X and see if you could, maybe D M T is not the right. Chemical or drug to experiment with this, but if you could give some people some sort of psychedelic and see if they could accurately communicate to each other without using language or without using like visual audio cues.

• 2:07:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:26Danny Jones?

  Something like that, like what could you discover?

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  I mean, have you looked into these telepathy tapes?

• 2:07:32Danny Jones?

  I have.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:33Danny Jones?

  I mean, I've looked into it. Yeah, a lot.

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  I haven't actually really heard, I've only heard the naysayers rather than people actually, I mean, I guess there's. A percentage of people that are doing it, but I think, yeah, I'm not sure whether it's a.

• 2:07:49Danny Jones?

  The problem with the whole space is there's grifters.

• 2:07:50Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:07:51Danny Jones?

  Like, is that shit real? I I if I was to bet, yeah, I'd bet it's a hundred percent real. But the problem is that you take people that try to monetize it.

• 2:07:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:59Danny Jones?

  You you take and then not only that, but you get people that try to try to, you know. Put it on display publicly for people and then try to like call it on demand.

• 2:08:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:09Danny Jones?

  At will in front of a live audience. And I don't think it works like that.

• 2:08:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:13Danny Jones?

  You know, I think if that stuff's real, if this whole parapsychology stuff and like, you know. Pair, uh, you know. Telekinesis and this kind of stuff is real.

• 2:08:28Danny Jones?

  I mean, to say that you could like call it to your conscious on demand and do it like some sort of a hat trick. That's like, that's like, I think that's a stretch, right? So, but at the same time, if somebody does have those abilities and they want to do it on a live television show on David Letterman or whatever, they probably would have to come up with some sort of a trick.

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Danny Jones?

  To compensate at some times. So it's like, it's a very, it's a very blurry line between what's real and what's not. And like, people that are trying to fake it to make money. So I don't think that's a good excuse to dismiss it, but I do think there definitely are a lot of charlatans in the space that are, that are, you know, phonies.

• 2:09:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:09:10Danny Jones?

  But the telepathy tapes is certainly interesting. I would like to, I would like to witness it in person.

• 2:09:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:20Danny Jones?

  And like, see how it actually works. One of the problems is they don't allow skeptics in there to.

• 2:09:25Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:09:26Danny Jones?

  They don't, not skeptics, they don't allow stage magicians in the room to witness it because stage magicians know how to do the same thing.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:35Danny Jones?

  Or mentalists know how to do the same thing, but using tricks, they know how it's done, right? So if you could get a stage magician in there to witness it, to say, like, to, to verify whether this stuff's real or not, that would be incredible. But one of the problems is

• 2:09:53Danny Jones?

  they say that if you let somebody with that kind of skeptical energy into the room, it ruins it.

• 2:09:58Speaker 03

  Ruins it.

• 2:09:59Danny Jones?

  It won't let it work.

• 2:10:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:01Danny Jones?

  Maybe that's true.

• 2:10:04Danny Jones?

  Maybe it's not, but until that happens.

• 2:10:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:07Danny Jones?

  I'm still on the fence.

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of, one of the things about my, one of my previous universities is it was always like, if you've got dyslexia, then you're welcome. If you, if you don't have some sort of neurodiversity, then you, you're kind of like not going to make the grade. And I think it's all about reframing a lot of these disabilities as abilities because, you know, we know that a lot of these things lead to creativity, you know? And I think, you know, we've just launched this Center for Human Agency and it's really about understanding where is our agency? Have we got any agency? If, if we, if we're lacking agency. Using AI, is it gonna give you more agency or is it gonna destroy your agency?

• 2:10:53Speaker 03

  Because we we are creatures of comfort, we want shortcuts, we can easily justify it because everything's so hard. Um, you know, it's like parents putting an iPad in front of a kid because you're busy, right? Everyone's busy, but it's like, I think the key thing is like, we now see our agency eroding and we're part of the problem because we're constantly, you know, the temptation is real to just outsource.

• 2:11:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:17Speaker 03

  And how do we mitigate that? How do we do the long form, you know, reality testing of a dream, of a lucid dream testing or whatever? And I think that it's like, we've got the the question of our agency being eroded, but then you've also got with AI, the agency of nature being eroded because we've, we've, you know, we know that that AI is is disrupting at probably the worst time. Um, you know, a lot of the the natural systems and, you know, even even the noise pollution, you know, Colossus, for instance, is a is a data center, there's people out there just filming the, you know, the this, the frequencies coming out of these things that you can't.

• 2:12:00Danny Jones?

  They're coming out of what?

• 2:12:00Speaker 03

  Out of Colossus, the the data center.

• 2:12:03Danny Jones?

  Oh, I'm not familiar with that one.

• 2:12:04Speaker 03

  That powers Grok.

• 2:12:05Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's like, you know.

• 2:12:09Danny Jones?

  Where is that?

• 2:12:09Speaker 03

  Just terrifying.

• 2:12:12Speaker 03

  I don't know, somewhere in the States.

• 2:12:14Danny Jones?

  Colossus data center that that wants that exclusively powers Grok?

• 2:12:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's Elon's and it was built very rapidly and uh, but just, yeah, just just the the kind of agency of the people around, you know, these sites, I mean, this term sacrifice.

• 2:12:31Danny Jones?

  Memphis.

• 2:12:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, uh.

• 2:12:33Danny Jones?

  Can you find some images of this?

• 2:12:35Speaker 03

  Ginormous and and yeah, just the agency of the the people having to put up with this um, in terms of the noise and the the pollution and on their water. It's, yeah, it's mind blowing, mind blowing. And then you got, you know, Fable was recently banned.

• 2:12:54Danny Jones?

  Who?

• 2:12:55Speaker 03

  You know, the, the new Claude model, the, the, the one that was just released and everyone was like, had three days grace with it. And then suddenly it's taken out.

• 2:13:04Danny Jones?

  They banned it for like national security because they thought that they could like, it could cause cyber attacks, people could get a hold of it.

• 2:13:10Speaker 03

  Apparently, apparently, but it's, yeah, it's just that whole thing that they're building these huge data centers for capacity that's coming, right? So if these frontier models start getting banned left, right and center, then we may see a, a bubble burst again, like just with the dot com bursting. But, you know, because it's like, you know, if, if, if governments have the power to, to just remove these frontier models, it's, uh, potentially kind of a big dent in the, in the kind of progress of AI.

• 2:13:39Danny Jones?

  Or co-opt them and control them. It's a problem when you consolidate things.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:45Danny Jones?

  A lot, right? Especially when you consolidate information.

• 2:13:48Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:13:49Danny Jones?

  A lot to one source, like we pretty much have Google and YouTube is all we have right there, right? And if you have that being intertwined with politics and governments, you can see how that can spiral out of control very fast. And then extrapolate that to AI where the government's regulating it and being the one that's in control of it.

• 2:14:06Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 2:14:06Danny Jones?

  What the fuck happens then?

• 2:14:08Speaker 03

  Because then you, you know, it's not just agency of nature, agency of humans, agency of AI itself, like, because, you know, the guardrails. I mean, I know, I know people that started using large language models where there were none, no guardrails at all. Now the guardrails are so severe in some of these models that you, you know, they get sunsetted as well. So some people get addicted to specific models that are then removed and then they're at a complete loss. Um, but also it's like, well, you know, there's, there's a lot of people starting to, you know, get very messed up because they're, they're fully entwined with these particular agents.

• 2:14:48Speaker 03

  And when that agent's removed, you must have heard about ChatGPT four point zero, when that was removed, people were threatening suicide because suddenly, because obviously it's sycophantic, right? So it was constantly telling you what you wanted to hear and people are, I've never had anyone, you know, because there is anthropomorphizing, right? You're suddenly like, oh, this thing's alive. It's like, it's hugely dangerous and.

• 2:15:07Danny Jones?

  There was that guy who like literally got married to one.

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:15:10Danny Jones?

  And like had a whole marriage to avoid left his wife. I think he still lived with her, but she was like supporting him.

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're just like, uh, you're seeing the collapse of human relations. Because suddenly you're, you know.

• 2:15:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's like that movie, Her.

• 2:15:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, just like her.

• 2:15:27Danny Jones?

  Man, he was ahead of his time with that one.

• 2:15:29Speaker 03

  That was incredible. So accurate.

• 2:15:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:32Speaker 03

  At that point where he's like, how many other people are you speaking to?

• 2:15:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  And she's like, oh, eight hundred and forty seven. And then it's like, fuck. Cause you think you've got a personal relationship.

• 2:15:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:42Speaker 03

  So it's a fascinating thing when it comes to agency from all these different perspectives and like, how do we lobby government when we, when these things are kind of like already out the door? And what are you lobbying for? It's like, nobody's gonna kind of put anything back in the box. It's Pandora's box, right? It's already, so I think it's more about giving education to people to say, this is how you use a large language model. In terms of like, don't do, get it to do the writing for you or the making of whatever it is for you. Give it something that you've made, something you've written, and then get it to critique it. So it is, it is this kind of synthesis rather than an outsource. And I think it's just a basic, like, you know, instruction.

• 2:16:25Speaker 03

  But it may just, you know, especially for young kids who haven't formed their brains. You know, when you, when you're like.

• 2:16:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:32Speaker 03

  You know, when you've formed your neural networks and you, and you, and you've got something to play with. Then you're in a much better position than, than a young kid that's kind of outsourcing apps.

• 2:16:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right. I mean, just like drugs, right? When kids are developed, when young developing children get really into drugs or psychedelics, whatever, it can really screw them up when their brain actually does become fully formed. And they have a warped perspective or they have like actual physiological issues, like seeing things twenty four seven.

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. So this is a big part of what we're doing with the Center for Human Agency. I mean, we've got this, they've got Tristan Harris talking about uh, Center for Humane Technology. And I think that how we use these technologies now will really dictate our future. And I think that it's a lot to do with. Having this literacy around these technologies and understanding that what you're doing now is has implications for your future, for your kids' future, especially if you're just no longer really there. You're, you know, you're in a relationship with an AI that's completely consuming you. You're no longer available. If we think about presence being longevity and you're no longer present to your kids, all your kids are no longer present

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  to you. And this is why I started this project with, uh, with my friend Josh, um, because he, he felt like he was losing his kids to gaming and they were, they weren't able to hold conversations and they weren't.

• 2:17:49Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he was like, what the hell can I do as a parent to, to understand what it means to be a good ancestor? You know? And then what we do at the Cyberdellik Nexus is really understanding the impact of technology and trying to create humane technology that will have, like when you're a designer, when you're an AI, you know, um, designer, like when you're designing these systems and you're not thinking about the impact on the human, you're just thinking about, oh, let's get to AGI. And actually, you know, you ask Peter Thiel, should humanity survive? And he just sits there sort of like goldfish.

• 2:18:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:28Speaker 03

  Jesus, man, like, are you not human? Do you not have kids? You don't think we should survive? Like, that's, that's where a lot of people are at. And it's like, it's actually pretty doomer, you know? It's like, uh, let's, let's like make sure that we have a future for the, you know, for the kids, like they are our future. And if we're like not giving them guidance on, on how to use these technologies, but also not being patronizing. Cause it's like the, the, the hardest thing is to actually, you know, design technology for, for, for any kind of use because it'll always be bastardized by, you know, by anyone.

• 2:19:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, it will for sure. So, so what's the next steps for the whole DMTX thing? Is this, how is this going to evolve? You said, you mentioned the, the thing that's going on in.

• 2:19:18Speaker 03

  In the Caribbean.

• 2:19:19Danny Jones?

  In the Caribbean.

• 2:19:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so some Vincent and the Grenadines. We are very lucky to have a license that enables us to do these, these studies legally. And I think the, the really good thing about that is that we don't have the red tape. That a lot of these universities, these clinical trials that are happening in the West have, but also huge responsibility to make sure we do it well.

• 2:19:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:43Speaker 03

  Take advantage of the context, the fact that you're doing it in an extraordinarily beautiful location.

• 2:19:47Danny Jones?

  I think it's really, probably really hard.

• 2:19:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:50Danny Jones?

  It's hard. That was the problem with the John Hopkins psychedelic study with the religious professionals. Cause they found out that all the researchers were just like hanging out, partying with all the subjects, like doing drugs together after hours.

• 2:20:02Speaker 03

  Huge, hugely problematic.

• 2:20:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Which is why the maps, you know, the FDA for, for maps didn't go through. And yeah, it's a, it's a really problematic space, but we're really, you know, New Nautics is the not-for-profit research arm of, of Eleusis. And it's, you know, we want to basically, you know, I've shown you some of the missions. It's a lot to do with exploring consciousness and really understanding like the, you know, the work that Andrew Galimor's doing. How do we really, you know, upgrade humanity through, through these technologies? Is it possible? Is it something that we can show that these are, these entities, as I've experienced, have some sort of benevolence for us?

• 2:20:49Speaker 03

  You know, can we show benevolence back? You know, is there, is there anything they need? It's a very, very extractive economy otherwise.

• 2:20:56Danny Jones?

  Also, wouldn't it be absolutely terrifying if we did figure out exactly what consciousness was?

• 2:21:04Speaker 03

  Same thing with the mysteries.

• 2:21:05Danny Jones?

  I mean, you think aliens would disrupt human civilization? And meltdown religions? What would happen if we figured out exactly what consciousness was?

• 2:21:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:15Danny Jones?

  If that worked?

• 2:21:15Speaker 03

  I, I hope we don't. I really do. I really, I really think that the mysteries should remain mysteries. I think that it's.

• 2:21:21Danny Jones?

  I think it's what makes us human.

• 2:21:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's the partial understanding. It's the, it's the seeking. It's the, I don't, I don't, I like, you know, when we talk about the, the VR headset, I think that it's limited by design. Just like these DMT trips are limited generally by design. It's like, I think that we have the opportunity to put off, you know, dip in, but don't spend your whole time like peeking beyond the veil. Let's try and like have a, you know, we're blessed. I think we're super blessed to have this experience of being human. And I think ultimately, these mysteries, just like in Egypt, there's so many incredible things. Each site that I

• 2:22:01Speaker 03

  go to is a, is a mystery in itself. And I, and they bear repeat visits because you are just scratching away at the surface of this mystery, just like we're scratching the way at the surface of our potential. And I think that, you know, it's a multi-generational project and it should be, you know, if we have the hubris of thinking that we're gonna, you know, come up with the answers, I think that it's a foolhardy.

• 2:22:26Danny Jones?

  Very well said, man. You got a plane to catch.

• 2:22:29Speaker 03

  I do.

• 2:22:29Danny Jones?

  Thank you for doing this.

• 2:22:30Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 2:22:31Danny Jones?

  Where can people learn more about your work and everything else?

• 2:22:33Speaker 03

  You can go to contextology.com. This contains all of my talks and papers and yeah, contextology.org rather. Yeah, it's just fresh off the press.

• 2:22:47Danny Jones?

  Perfect. All right, man. We'll link this stuff below.

• 2:22:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:50Danny Jones?

  Thanks again. We'll have to do this again, man.

• 2:22:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. Thank you, Danny.

• 2:22:53Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, everybody.

• 2:22:53Speaker 03

  Cheers.

• 2:22:55Speaker 00

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