"Couldn't Win Without Me" - Scottie Pippen BREAKS SILENCE On Jordan, NBA Legacy & Bulls Dynasty | PBD Podcast | Ep. 536

In this explosive interview, NBA legend Scottie Pippen holds nothing back as he discusses the shocking decline of the NBA, criticizing the modern game for being too soft, Adam Silver's leadership, and the loss of millions of fans. Pippen dives into the impact of the 3-point era, the death of defense, and how today's stars like LeBron James and Victor Wembanyama lack the toughness of his era. He also reflects on his iconic run with the Chicago Bulls, his complicated relationship with Michael Jordan, the GOAT debate, behind-the-scenes drama, and how social media, politics, and player power have forever changed the NBA. Raw, unfiltered, and brutally honest—this is Scottie Pippen like you've NEVER heard him before. -------- 👕 GET THE LATEST VT MERCH: ⁠https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l⁠ https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:01Patrick Bet-David?

  When your book came out, I think you said something about how do you want to be remembered? And you said, "I want to be remembered as..."

• 1:06Speaker 03

  The greatest of all time. You know, the reason why I say stuff like that is because when you play the game the way that I played it, why can't I say that?

• 1:16Patrick Bet-David?

  That's okay. You can say that. No one's saying you can't say that.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, say it and mean it.

• 1:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, so you do believe that?

• 1:22Speaker 03

  I'm saying, yeah.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  Look at the stats. I got six rings too. Look at my accolades. I got Defensive Player All NBA. So playing the game the right way and winning means something to me.

• 1:46Patrick Bet-David?

  When's the last time you and Michael spoke? Did it end up being good, the conversation?

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Good and final.

• 1:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So when you guys played together, how often was it for you guys to have dinner together? Chicago has a lot of great... Scotty, stop it. Scotty, stop it. Would you put yourself ahead of LeBron as a team standpoint?

• 2:07Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  You want individual accolades or you want championships? Because I didn't chase mines.

• 2:28Patrick Bet-David?

  So as a former fan of the NBA, I really wanted to have this conversation with Scottie because look, I'm a diehard fan of the Last Dance documentary, the game, the fight, the greatness, what it took to win six championships. But today, he said some stuff I've never heard before. The amount, his relationship with Michael, the last time him and Michael spoke, how many episodes of The Last Dance he watched, and after which episode he stopped watching The Last Dance. And I asked him about the product of the NBA, why it's been down 48% the last 12 years. I played a clip of Colin Cowherd saying what he said, and his answer, he didn't hold back. He just straight up went to it. It got uncomfortable a couple times when we discussed the relationship with he and Michael, and he did not hold

• 3:13Patrick Bet-David?

  back. He was very respectful, yet at the same time gave his perspective. I asked him, do you believe you're the greatest of all time? Because that's what you said in your book. And you have to watch that part. Then a couple funny stories, the cat story of Horace Grant, why he would mispractice. What happened with Isaiah Thomas, and how a former guy who is no longer with us, he passed away in 2018, was a big part of influence, and why Isaiah didn't play on the Dream Team 1992. And again, as an NBA fan, if you love the game, and you love the 90s, and you loved seeing them dominate, whether you're a Knicks fan and you hated them, whether you're a Laker fan like me and you saw them lose

• 3:56Patrick Bet-David?

  to the Bulls, the Lakers, you're going to enjoy this conversation with the one and only Hall of Famer, number 33, Scottie Pippen.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Right here.

• 4:23Patrick Bet-David?

  You are a one on one? My son's right.

• 4:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty, I think we're finally doing this.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Yes, we are.

• 4:33Patrick Bet-David?

  This is actually happening.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:35Patrick Bet-David?

  And for the viewers that are watching this, they have no idea that I told you. And we were, by the way, we started off with a heated debate. You missed it. The debate was over who's got the best voice in the NBA. You, you speak effortless, but you have these, I don't know if you've been told this, you got the best voice in the NBA. You said somebody else got the best voice.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Ah, yes.

• 4:54Patrick Bet-David?

  You give credit to somebody else.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  Well, you gave me the credit of having the best voice in association. So I said, yeah, I may have to give it to Dr. J.

• 5:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you said Dr. J. And listen, we can say a lot of things to give credit to him. I played his voice. He doesn't have a Scottie Pippen voice. But it's great to have you here. I know we've spoken the last few years about having you on and, you know, a book coming out, a bunch of different conversations we had and, you know, the audience, there are certain people that don't need an introduction. Six championships, dream, I think you got two gold medals if I'm not mistaken, seven time All-Star. Your, your career average was a two steals per game. I think you're seventh all time if I'm not mistaken in that category. That's not an easy stat as a catalog of your career to maintain a 2.0, two steals a game. There's a lot of things to be talked about you with the things that you've done, but we got a lot to talk, to talk about today, man. So I'm glad you're here.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  It's a pleasure.

• 5:48Patrick Bet-David?

  I want to start off with a very, we start off soft and we get tougher as the podcast gets ahead. So let's start off with something very soft. So when I look at the NBA, myself, as a guy that consumed the game 24/7, I never missed a game from the day I came to the States, 1990 till 98, I watched everything. I was a Lakers guy. So I'm talking Nick Van Anxel, Sedale Treat, if you know these names, Eldon Campbell, you know, I can give you some lineup of guys we watched that,

• 6:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Eddie Jones, Trevor Riza came a little later, but I go all the way back.

• 6:27Patrick Bet-David?

  When you watch the viewership of NBA Finals, you guys, what you did, what Michael did, Chicago Bulls. I don't know what the number is, Rob. If you type in NBA Finals viewership, 38 million, 36 million, 32 million. And then you see the stats today. And the stats come out saying the NBA viewership is down 48% the last 12 years. I no longer watch the NBA, okay? To me, they've lost me as a fan. You, as somebody who was face known worldwide, what happened to the NBA the last 10, 20 years?

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Well, I feel like that the game changed. It became more of a perimeter shooter game, if I could say that. And I think,

• 7:16Speaker 03

  back, and I remember right when I was leaving the game, early 2000, that the league promoted more scoring. They wanted to get more points up on the board. They felt like that would get the fans more engaged.

• 7:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Tale end of your career.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, I got it.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  So it, at that point to me, it started looking more like a game built for offensive players. Guys that did play defense and, you know, took pride in playing defense were to some degree punished, I felt like, because everything was working in favor of the offensive player. And then they went, they put the circle in there where a guy is not allowed to take a charge at certain

• 8:03Speaker 03

  points in the lane, at a certain position in the lane. So I think what a,

• 8:10Speaker 03

  a lot of things changing within the game. And a lot of it was for the good. Looking at, you know, the physicality of the game as to where it was in the 90s. But I think a lot of that got wiped away. And I think that's where a lot of the fans. Lost interest in the game.

• 8:33Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're saying, because LeBron said the three-point game, right? A lot of people said the three-point game. You're saying the defense, Rob, I just pulled this up, which is a very interesting stat, by the way, based on what you're saying. I pulled up what the NBA averaged the least amount of points, okay? Per game over the history of it. Rob, just pull up the link and put it up. Very, very interesting. The last two of you guys won the championship together was it 97-98 or 98-99?

• 9:02Speaker 03

  It was 97-98.

• 9:03Patrick Bet-David?

  97-98. So this is interesting. Zoom in a little bit, Rob. So if you look at the league right there and go on to the category of points. Points is, keep going to the right, keep going to the right, keep going, right there. There's points right there, right there. Okay. So watch that. In 2024, 2025, right now, the NBA averages 113 points a game. Last year was 114, 115, 110. So since 2018, it's been averaging 111 points a game. Then if you go back to 2012, it was 98, 96, 99, okay? If you go a little bit lower, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Look at the 97, 98. Now you see 92 points a game. That's 98, 99.

• 9:48Patrick Bet-David?

  95.6, 96.9, right? With the points per game. What else you think it is that turned fans away from the game? Because to me, how much of it you think, and I'll ask these questions, and you're probably going to be more diplomatic than me because you're in the game. How much of it do you think David Stern? What is the different style of David Stern running the NBA versus an Adam Silver?

• 10:16Speaker 03

  I felt like David Stern era, he ran the game. I think Adam Silver's era, he's more or less allowing the players to have some input in terms of how the rules of the game are changing.

• 10:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

• 10:37Speaker 03

  Well, it looks like it's pretty bad right now.

• 10:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, oh, interesting.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  But I think.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  From a standpoint of players being healthy, those are some precautionary measures that they've taken in in the game where players don't like to play back to back. So I I think it's a it's a lot of things, you know, I I definitely feel like the three point shot has turned fans away from the game because um it it's just no no teamwork in shooting a three point shot. There is no teamwork in coming down and taking a shot from behind the three point line. But there's teamwork in coming down and executing a play.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  Everybody touches the ball and you get a bucket out of it, whether it's a two or three. But it's something that drew fans, drew people to love the game, to love certain teams that played a certain way. And I don't think you see that in today's game. I I I feel like the last team that played with that kind of chemistry was the Golden State Warriors. They had sort of a team chemistry where they move the ball, but it was about a lot of jump shooting, a lot of three point shooters. But they had the greatest shooters in the history of the game, and they had the greatest shooters in the game at that time.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  So it was a great sight to really see a a great team executing, playing together, and shooting the three point shot. Well, in today's game, as we watch it, we don't see that great team chemistry of a team that has been doing this and have longevity of success. So it makes it hard for you to lock in and like what you're seeing.

• 12:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's you know, it's funny, a few years ago, the NBA All-Star, uh probably five, six years ago, I don't know if you remember, Giannis had the team, LeBron had the team. In the fourth quarter, they were playing up to one fifty seven. Whoever hit one fifty seven would win. I saw defense I hadn't seen since your era. It was amazing.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, even Kobe would play the defense in in, uh, what do you call it? In All-Star game, so you would see that element, himself, McGrady, some of these guys would play. But in that moment, I'm sitting there thinking to myself as a fan, I'm like, why am I liking this? This is freaking amazing. So defense was very attractive to me because it's a fight, right? It's a fight that the other side is putting up. I want to ask you a question. When you were playing and you guys had fans in Chicago, you guys were, can we say that the 10-year run you had, you were like the Beatles? You were like Elvis Presley. You were like, is it fair to say, no matter where you guys went, everybody wanted to see you guys? The show in town, no matter where you guys went?

• 13:27Speaker 03

  I would definitely say that's fair, but I would give a lot of the credit to Michael Jordan because of the fact that he had created something with the Chicago Bulls and that myself and other guys that came along, we built up on that. And it became, in the late 90s, when we got Dennis Rodman on the team, that we were, or people looked at us as a rock band. And when we came to different cities, we had that kind of feeling that, you know, we had to put on a show, we had to perform. And that's why, when you look at those teams, especially my Bull teams back there,

• 14:13Speaker 03

  there were no days off, you know? Guys came to play whether they were injured, sick, no matter what, because we felt like that we had to perform and that there were people coming out to watch us perform.

• 14:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and you know, when I watch it that way, and I see the numbers, you know, we're going to get into the debates of Michael, LeBron, Kobe, all this stuff. We'll get into that here in a minute. But the question I wanted to ask you is, when you guys played for the Bulls and politicians showed up, okay? Say Republicans showed up, Democrats showed up, and they'd come and speak to you. And Michael made that one comment that we read about. I don't know if he said that or not, you know what I'm talking about, where? It's like, listen, Republicans also buy shoes too, right? And Obama in the last stand said, I was kind of disappointed that he didn't come and support that one candidate, and even Michael's mother wasn't happy. You know the story, I'm telling you stuff that you lived it. So I'm more the guy watching it from the outside.

• 15:10Patrick Bet-David?

  As a comparison of face of the league to face of the league, not talent, we're not talking like, who's the better team player? Who's the better scorer? Who's more dominant? Who's the bigger winner? Michael to LeBron. How much of it you think also? The face of the league, MJ was the face of the league. Then maybe you put Kobe, Shaq, the next era. Then you put LeBron, Curry, the next era. As the face of the league, how much did Michael's approach to the fans cause people to come that could careless about politics, left, right and center, fall in love with it? Versus now the face of the league with social media. Some fans are like, if you don't like me, I don't even want to come contribute to watch a game anymore.

• 15:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Because you kind of a speaking to me in a way that you want to see me come watch and play. That specific debate, what did you notice between those two of gaining different fans?

• 16:03Speaker 03

  Well, I can say in today's era, especially with social media, players allow the public to know their personal things. Whether it's political, financial, family, whatever. They allow the public to get involved in it. So when you asked me to make that comparison with Michael or LeBron, well, Michael never put himself in that position. I mean, his words speak for himself, for itself. I mean, he's never gonna put himself in a position where you know his political thinking, his political mindset. He stays away from that. He's a basketball player.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  He's not a politician. He's not one that's gonna get involved in any kind of debate. He's gonna focus more on playing basketball and what it takes to win championships. And that's all he's gonna speak around.

• 17:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he like that behind closed doors and on camera when he's being interviewed?

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was just his whole mindset because, you know, as we look at it today, he had a big engine, a big brand behind him that he's always had to protect.

• 17:22Patrick Bet-David?

  But like, you know, as a young guy, you're coming up when he would give you advice, like different things that you guys spoke about. You know, I know the one thing you talked about when you went to the Rockets, he said you should have never, we'll talk, you know, which one I'm talking about. He's like, you could have gone a different place. But. Did he give that feedback to guys coming up? Hey, guys, we don't talk politics here. Hey, guys, don't bring that kind of attention here. Because the head coach, Phil Jackson, when you study about him, and back in the days when he played for the Knicks, you know, he played with a couple of guys that all they talked about in the locker room was politics. So you get a Phil who's very political, but he keeps it to himself, he's philosophical. You get a Michael, was it one of those things that it's a code? We as a unit almost ran like a mob. We don't touch politics, we don't talk about it.

• 18:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he run it that way?

• 18:08Speaker 03

  I don't think he really ran it. I think he's just led by example, you know? If you don't speak it, then you know that that's not an area, that's a gray area that he doesn't want to talk about. And obviously, if any politician, anyone wants him to, you know, donate or do anything publicly, then he's never gonna get involved with that.

• 18:30Patrick Bet-David?

  What a move to make. Good for him to make a move like that. Do you think, do you think that indirectly, that position helped the NBA grow its viewership? Because it attract all types of people?

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Yes, it did. Because, like I said, in the 90s, we didn't have social media. So we didn't have a way to turn fans off, especially from a political standpoint. Uh, we didn't have a way to encourage them, uh, from a political standpoint. So we just had basketball, and it was a lot easier to focus on our craft and, and our job and grow from that. Uh, we didn't have a lot of the distractions that, you know, players have now with social media. We have a lot of newspapers, there were more magazines and things printing stories. But, you know, it takes weeks, days, months for those kind of stories to get out.

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Whereas social media is every day, it's 24/7. It's every 30 minutes, every minute, something's jumping off.

• 19:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think if social media was there back then? Like, you know Ronaldo right now is the most followed guy. I don't know what he's got, 600 million followers, something like that on Instagram? If social media was around when you guys were playing, how big would, would you guys and would Michael have been? I mean Ronaldo's got 647 million followers right now on Instagram. How big would have been if if social media was around when you guys were playing? Maybe Dennis Rodman would have had the most following, who knows?

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, hey, it would have been different. Uh, definitely, you know, with looking at these numbers, you you don't know how, uh, you know, being a player that played in the nineties, how these numbers come about? And, you know, what they really mean, because we didn't grow up in this social media era, but, um, definitely, you know who you're talking about. You you know that, you know, he's one of the greatest players, greatest athletes in the world, and six hundred forty seven million speaks for itself.

• 20:35Patrick Bet-David?

  So you think Michael would have been there if social media was around at that time? Because Michael kind of took the NBA to-

• 20:40Speaker 03

  I think he would have probably doubled that, I'm gonna be honest.

• 20:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Seriously?

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I I would say, because basketball in the nineties, uh, when it first jumped off, and, you know, just having social media back then would have just been amazing. You know, I remember in nineteen eighty seven, when I was drafted, that that's when the NBA signed a international, uh, deal with China, where games were now being shown all over, you know, the world, pretty much, definitely all over China, so the game was growing then, and, you know, at that point, I mean, Michael was four or five years already into the game, so I'm just speaking when I started in the league, that,

• 21:26Speaker 03

  yeah, that the growth of what I've seen in basketball,

• 21:32Speaker 03

  I've traveled all over the world, from Italy, Germany, early nineties, late eighties, really talking about basketball, growing basketball, talking about the Olympics, and lo and behold, nineteen ninety two, we're playing in the Olympics, and now, you know, thirty years later, uh, you know, there's nothing but NBA players playing in the Olympics now, so-

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Things have changed and you know, players all around the world has uh definitely gained more confidence, more interest in playing in the NBA.

• 22:06Patrick Bet-David?

  That's amazing. Scotty, who was the, who, who were some people you saw? Because your last year was uh, was it oh three oh four? If I'm looking at this, oh three oh four. So oh four is when Barack gave the speech, right? The DNC when he blew up. That's when he came out and he gave one of the greatest speeches of all time. Did, did Barack ever come watch you play? Or did Trump ever come watch you play? Did you ever see either one of them at the games?

• 22:29Speaker 03

  No, I never seen neither one of them.

• 22:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Really? Neither one of them?

• 22:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 22:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, interesting.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  You know, being Barack was a Chicago guy. He probably watched from a suite or something from that standpoint if he came to the game, but I've never had met him at a game.

• 22:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Neither him nor Trump?

• 22:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 22:44Patrick Bet-David?

  So Trump never watched the Bulls? He had to have gone to a Bulls game.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  I doubt it.

• 22:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 22:49Speaker 03

  So he's a New York guy, you know.

• 22:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, if you go to the Knicks, I mean, that era of you guys going to the Knicks, it would have been something to want to watch when you guys were on the road.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  I stayed at a lot of Trump hotels back in my playing days.

• 23:01Patrick Bet-David?

  You stayed out of Trump hotels?

• 23:02Speaker 03

  No, we stayed at a lot of them.

• 23:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you stayed at Trump hotels. Got it. What is that, Rob? Is that so? He's out there Knicks against Bucks. Can you see if there's a Trump with, with uh Chicago Bulls? Trump watching Chicago Bulls? Just curious if, well, that's Trump in a Chicago Bulls jersey. That's funny. People, okay, these are now, these are all AI driven things that you've shown.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's kinda hard to find something real.

• 23:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was the guy, first time you were playing, you're in there eighty seven. I remember your rookie card, by the way, the rookie Fleer card, right? I remember

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:33Patrick Bet-David?

  what that looked like. So when you came in, who was the first guy to game where like, oh shit, look who's here today? Was this somebody you saw on the sidelines where you were a little bit shocked or not really? You were so focused on the game?

• 23:45Speaker 03

  I was more or less focused on the game, but there were time when, you know, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who I'd never met, you know, playing in Chicago would show up and be courtside. Oprah Winfrey.

• 23:56Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right, Chicago.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, so back in the day, uh Gene Siskel, who was a very close friend of mine, some movie critic, um.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  He passed away, God rest his soul, but you know, I was never a guy that really focused on who was watching me play. I didn't care who was in the stands. I've always been a player that focused on the game, my team, the success, and how do we win? That's it. I don't care who's coming to watch.

• 24:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you two of them. Let me ask you two of them and see if you, did you ever have Michael Jackson come watch the game or Prince, either one of those two?

• 24:39Speaker 03

  I think I had Prince. Well, I can't say. I think Prince came to a game down in Minnesota.

• 24:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Prince did?

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, when we played to Timberwolves. I've never seen Michael at a game.

• 24:52Patrick Bet-David?

  You ever want to watch him perform? Did you ever go to one of his concerts?

• 24:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 24:56Patrick Bet-David?

  No. Okay, so for me, I have two regrets. I never got a chance to see Michael Jackson perform, and I never got a chance to watch you guys play.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 25:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Ever. I never got a chance to watch you guys play. Yeah, that was one, 2000s. Wow, that's, it's been eight years already. That is absolutely wild, that it's been eight years already with, interesting how fast time flies by. You mentioned Dream Team earlier, Kyle. With the Dream Team taking place, obviously, we can go back to one of the topics that we followed very closely. That lineup right there, who's on the team, by the way? So you got yourself, Stockton, Bird, Michael, Clyde Drexler, Mullin, Barkley, Malone, I think that's David Robinson, Magic, Ewing, and Leitner. You got Chuck Daly as a coach.

• 25:51Patrick Bet-David?

  And when you go back, and the main story that we hear about, there's a, there's two stories that we hear about. One story is the greatest game ever played that nobody ever saw.

• 25:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Right? That story with where Magic is talking smack to Michael.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:05Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what is your point of view of that story, of that game? Do you remember it?

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Well, you know, if you look at that, I was one of the youngest guys on that team beyond Leitner, but you know, it was just one of those practices where, you know, guys just talking trash. Guys were excited to, you know, be in the gym for one and practicing and, you know, Magic was one of those guys that, you know. He wanted to rah rah and get everybody together, but also hey, we're here to work. And so Magic made it a little more competitive and start kinda.

• 26:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Poking.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Poking a little, little bit at Michael, letting him know, you know, I've been away and you got a championship, but hey, I'm still Magic, dah dah dah. And so it's just kinda got a little, little, little bit heated, nothing in a, in a bad way, just a. One of those days where, you know, Michael put more energy on the basketball court than he did on the golf course, but uh. Yeah, he uh came out and, you know, was talking trash and. Every day after practice, we would go back to the rooms and play cards and just kinda sit around and talk and. Smoke cigars and things, but uh.

• 27:20Patrick Bet-David?

  What was your favorite memory of the Dream Team, ninety two?

• 27:27Speaker 03

  You know, it's, it's not one thing, uh, just being around guys who you looked at, who you uh idolize. And always wondered, you know, what make them tick, what make them go, what pushes them. Uh, what their daily workout is like, what do they do every day? And just kinda being in their surroundings and I'm talking to everybody from Larry Bird, who was. At the end of his career, as well as Magic.

• 27:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but just kinda being around those guys and finally getting to know them. Uh, not having to feel like it's a day where I, I gotta guard Larry Bird, you know? It's a competitive moment, but having an opportunity to bond with them, to have breakfast with them, to meet their families, uh. Just to see what their lives are like away from the game, just having an opportunity to say. I'm a friend of Larry Bird, you know, that's better than me going through. My whole career and saying, hey, I played against Bird five times, you know, and yeah, he was tough, but.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  That opportunity to kinda break bread, to bond, uh, it kinda opened up a different door for us. I guess in the NBA world because we've never had that opportunity to really come together, uh, it was always about.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Competing, you know, you look at the Bulls and the Pistons and there was never a opportunity for us to ever just come together and break bread and say, hey, we had some great competitive years, man, and this and that, just to talk basketball. But that moment to get all those players together and you you build more respect for people too, you know, just after that, I mean, I had opportunity, we played against Carmelo and John Stockton twice after that, you know. So not only am I competing with them, you know, for a NBA championship, but I just won

• 29:38Speaker 03

  two gold medals with these two dudes, you know. So this is competitive, but it means something to both of us, you know, that, you know, we've gotten back to the finals, you know.

• 29:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Who did you learn a lot from? Who were you like, you know, you you hear the documentary about when Dwyane Wade and LeBron, they said LeBron learned about work ethic of Kobe after going to the Olympics with him. He's like, I had no idea this guy worked. So I thought I was a hard worker, but then it's like, holy shit. This is how the guy trains? This is how he works? And you heard the stories from Carmelo and you heard the story from, was it Bosch? I think Bosch is the one that told one of the stories, right?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:17Patrick Bet-David?

  When you went there, was it was it because I would assume on Michael's mindset of going there was to make sure he sets the record straight. It's my NBA. I'm I'm here to set the tone, right? Because you guys had just won one, if I'm not mistaken. But when you're going there and you're trying to size some of these guys up as well, who did you learn a lot from where you're like, I had no idea that guy had that kind of work ethic? That guy was very disciplined. That guy doesn't drink. He never partied. He didn't come and do this. He had to get asleep. This guy had to do this. What what patterns did you learn about some of your peers and competitors?

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Well, you definitely get a chance to see their work ethics away from the game because we definitely spent time, you know, together, but it it gave me a chance to really bond with some guys that I probably thought I never would. I bonded with Karl Malone, I bonded with Patrick Ewing. We would work out together, so I got a chance to see what it's like working with these guys, not just on the court, but off the court, but have an opportunity to go do extra stuff on the basketball court to learn kind of what their extra work includes. What do what do they work on? What are their their weaknesses?

• 31:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Who were you impressed by?

• 31:37Speaker 03

  Well, I was very impressed with Karl Malone in the in the weight room. He is a beast.

• 31:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Because of how much he pushed?

• 31:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, he is just a beast. I mean, he he stays in the gym four hours and just works until you can't pick up a cup of coffee.

• 31:54Patrick Bet-David?

  So that was him? Wow. Who was very disciplined with sleep and diet? I'm assuming Charles Barkley was very disciplined with?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  With with with eating and and hanging out, but no, I would I would say someone who really focused on their their diet probably was more like someone like Chris Mullin.

• 32:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Chris Mullin? Really?

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was a I don't I'm just talking about conditioning, like this guy, him and Patrick, they were just so focused on their conditioning every day, every day, but.

• 32:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Who talked the most shit? Who was like poking nonstop, like outside of Michael? I'm assuming Michael was nonstop, but who else was like out of control, talking smack?

• 32:37Speaker 03

  I mean, you you got Charles Barkley, who's doing that all the time, and then everyone gonna always throw up on him. Well, you don't have a championship, and then that's when he's he have to like tuck his tail between his uh his butt and walk away, but uh at that time, we still had a lot of basketball left in our career, so Charles always had the comeback line that I'm gonna get mines, so.

• 33:03Patrick Bet-David?

  So he was he was at a this, you know what I like about Charles is? You know, when he, Shaq and Kenny go at it and they do their debate, right? And he says what he says. He never takes it away from himself that he never won. Meaning, he doesn't give himself an out.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 33:21Patrick Bet-David?

  He always calls himself out for not having won one.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:24Patrick Bet-David?

  And, and you gotta respect that because you know, some, sometimes guys, they're asked questions. Hey, do you think if your legacy ends and you don't win a championship, you think it's impacted by it? Mike, you know, Barkley will say, yes. And some guys will say, no, I'm still a great basketball player and all this other stuff. Do you think, do you think somebody? You seem like a nicer guy. You don't seem like a guy that wants to ruffle feathers. But do you think your career is tainted if at the end of your career, you, you have that disclaimer that you never won a championship?

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• 34:56Speaker 03

  I would say in certain situations, but in Charles Barkley's situation, I would say no.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  I would say no because he won two gold medals. He helped globalize basketball all over the world. He didn't have to play in but won NBA finals. And he didn't win, but everybody knows Charles Barkley. Because of his personality, because of him working on TNT. But really, because he was a heck of a basketball player.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  He was a great player and he probably deserved to win a title. Ran into Michael and the Bulls. But Charles was a heck of a player and he's had a great career as an analyst as well.

• 35:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, there's no question about it. He, on that area, he may be the discussion as the most entertaining one that gets the most eyeballs. He's got to be up there, right, as what he's done with that area of his career. But I don't know. I think Charles would say, you're right, and he would take that as a compliment. And he would still say, I wish I would have won one. I think, I think that's what he would have said, but you know, from his standpoint, and again, that's the part when I watch and Shaq says, I got four, you got zero. He's such a great example on that side that he still puts the pressure of not having won one. Chuck. By the way, for yourself, with the game that you played, a opponent and staying on this dream team side, a conversation that we're having. You know,

• 36:34Patrick Bet-David?

  for those who are NBA fans, they remember when those guys beat you guys up every season. And Tim Grover is a friend where Tim comes in and, you know, he starts training. You see the videos with Michael and him and all this other stuff and he learns he has to kind of get stronger to get through the middle because those guys aren't, you know, one of my, I would play the footage, but we can't because it's the NBA footage. The one where Michael comes in over Ewing and he scores with, I think it's Xavier McDaniel and just kind of puts the, he looks at him and just kind of, you know, celebrates to say he's got the strength now of, you can't bully him anymore. So then puts his head against, you know, I've probably seen that four minute and 40 second clip of them going against the Knicks when he says. I asked my dad, what should I do? Take the lead and if they don't follow, you know, whatever, you're at least will be able to look back and he gets into.

• 37:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Xavier's face right here. I freaking have watched this thing a few thousand times. And just getting into his eyes to tell him, hey, we're not afraid of you. Such a beautiful thing. But for you guys going up against Pistons. And then coming back and, you know, winning. And then them walking off.

• 37:40Patrick Bet-David?

  We've heard Michael's version. Okay, of the reason why Isaiah didn't make it on the dream team. Stats. Overqualified. Championships. Overqualified. Numbers he put up, I mean, Isaiah Thomas, I think one season put up thirty eight eight or twenty eight eight eight. He put up some numbers that just made no sense. Maybe it was even thirty two eight eight. Can you put Isaiah Thomas stats? Just tap in Isaiah Thomas stats if you could. And uh, go down to, keep going lower. Let's see, let me see what the points per game is, Rob. If you can zoom out a little bit to see points. Go lower, go lower, twenty eight eight. Uh, he had one season that the numbers, and maybe that's Larry Bird that put up the stats like that, but.

• 38:24Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy was a two-time champion.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, his, his numbers are based on his scoring and his assists. So when you're having twenty points and ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen assists, then. That's, that's thirty points.

• 38:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Did, did you, did you know the story that? What he did that day, not shaking hands, getting off the field, Lambier, all of that stuff. You knowing Michael. You're like, yeah, he's not gonna be on the, did you know that story behind closed doors?

• 38:54Speaker 03

  You know, uh. When that happened. That had nothing to do with the dream team. That was in ninety one. That was our first title. So, uh.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  I don't even think I was on the dream team at that time. Uh, the dream team stuff came up in ninety two or, you know, right as that season was starting to, to get. Underway.

• 39:19Patrick Bet-David?

  But, but I'm talking like Isaiah not being there and you guys are playing. You know, and the guys are talking to one another. Some guys are also kind of like, wow. He's here, but Isaiah's not here? Was it a known fact that Isaiah wasn't on because of Michael? Cause the coach was, I mean, who was your coach? You guys had the coach that.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  I think it was a known fact that he wasn't on the team. I can't say why he wasn't on the team. I can't even point out that say that any individual put him off the team. You know, basketball is a game built on relationships and that team was put together based on relationships. Players that they felt could get along, players that they felt could play together and players that they felt like could contribute in a white way to win a gold medal. And you know what? Dominique Wilkins was left off of that team. And I personally feel as bad as anyone

• 40:26Speaker 03

  to see a guy who I idolized, who I looked up to, who I guarded, who I defended numerous amount of times, not be a part of that team. But I didn't want to sacrifice my seat to give it up to him. But with all respect, I felt like he deserved to be on that team as well, not just Isaiah.

• 40:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but the biggest thing to me is like, it's the head coach is Chuck Daly. He is Isaiah's coach, right? I mean, he's the guy that they want together with. You mean to tell me like, either David Stern is not a fan of Isaiah to say, I'm gonna pick Chuck and you're not gonna get in. I mean, that's like a, so to me, it almost has to be a David Stern thing that says, you didn't represent something like this, you disrespect the NBA tradition, I'm gonna not put you there, and I'm gonna put your coach in Michael, and this will be a taint as the greatest team ever put together you want a part of. So I'm trying to say, because I see David Stern as a boss.

• 41:27Speaker 03

  I will, I will not let you say that because I don't think that would be fair. David Stern has nothing to do with USA Basketball. So I will correct you on that one. No. He gave them the nod that they could use NBA players, but I don't think when it comes to picking the teams, selecting the players.

• 41:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So as an amateur here, tell me, educate me, who picks the teams?

• 41:58Speaker 03

  Well, it's the people at USA Basketball, uh, and.

• 42:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was running the USA Basketball at the time? I'm like, this is something like for me as a fan, I'm curious.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  So you're gonna have to do your, do your research there. Figure out.

• 42:11Patrick Bet-David?

  I feel like you, listen, I feel like you're.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  C M Newton.

• 42:16Patrick Bet-David?

  USA Basketball nineteen ninety-two, uh, uh.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  C M Newton.

• 42:20Patrick Bet-David?

  C M Newton, okay, so that's his name? C M Newton, uh, was the president of basketball nineteen ninety, US Basketball. During this tenure, he was in a strong decision to allow professional basketball players to come to summer, which led to creation of the Dream Team. He served as the assistant coach of nineteen eighty-four Olympic gold medal. I think Jordan was on that team if I'm not mistaken. And was a major influence in the ninety-two, served on NCAA committees, coached at Alabama Vanderbilt before coaching. Played basketball, football and baseball at Fort Lauderdale High School. Shout out to Fort Lauderdale.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 42:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Played on state championship in basketball, so. So then I gotta, Rob, you gotta do this, because Scotty is now trying to turn us into a research team. Did C M Newton influence Isaiah Thomas from not making the Dream Team? Maybe even ask Chad G B T, maybe Dream Team.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  What is it, A I answering this now?

• 43:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, according to reports, C M Newton, who was the head of selection committee in nineteen ninety-two, is considered to have a role in Isaiah not being selected, as there were strong indications that Michael Jordan, the key player in the summer, would not participate if Thomas was on the team. And Newton reportedly facilitated that decision by not pushing for Isaiah's inclusion. Michael Jordan, most accounts point to Michael Jordan alleged opposition to Isaiah Thomas being on the Dream Team as a primary reason for his exclusion. How close was C M Newton to, uh, David Stern? Were they friends or no?

• 43:52Speaker 03

  I, I would, I, I don't know. I would have to say there's probably some respect there.

• 43:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Um.

• 44:01Patrick Bet-David?

  You, you.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  But yeah, that's the guy that put the team together, so, uh.

• 44:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, if I see.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  You know, and, and.

• 44:11Speaker 03

  When people say Michael did this, or they didn't put him on the team because of the Bulls, whatever, C.M. Newton was a fan of the game, just like you were. He saw the bad blood between the Bulls and Pistons. So, how can he put or mix oil and water together?

• 44:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, let me tell you, if you, if you really want to get back at Isaiah, you pick his coach, and you pick Michael, and you have videos circulating all over the world of Chuck and Michael golfing. If you really, really want to get under someone's skin, I gotta tell you, this C.M. Newton guy is extremely creative to a thought. Obviously, he passed away six years ago. May God bless his soul, but if he was that much of a mastermind. By the way, you know, for me, you know, when you're running a company and you're making decisions sometimes, and you know there's bad blood with somebody, let's just say somebody took advantage of another guy, or somebody did something that didn't meet the traditions of a company, you have to set the example and represent the guy that's setting the better example.

• 45:18Patrick Bet-David?

  So, I think the right move was made here, and if Michael was not happy about it, you want him to go and play in the dream team, and you have experience with him from 1984. See, I didn't know the connection with him and Michael from 1984. But, listen, by the way, Rob, moving forward, the head of our research team for the NBA is going to be Scottie Pippen. That's just moving forward, that's what we're doing. Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represents who you are. So, for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat, or a ValueTainment gear, you're telling the world, "I'm optimistic, I'm excited about what's going to be happening," but you're a free thinker, you question things, you like debate, and by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with ValueTainment.

• 46:03Patrick Bet-David?

  We have so many new things, the cuff links are here, new Future Looks Bright, this is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for 100 of these. If you watch the PBD Podcast, you got a bunch to choose from, white ones, black ones, if you, if you... If you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the Valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs. We got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with Valuetainment, with PBD Podcast, go to vtmerch.com. And by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift inside just for you. So again, go to vtmerch.com,

• 46:49Patrick Bet-David?

  place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright. So talking about, you know, moving forward about talking about, you know, the stream team, Michael, all this stuff. I've noticed, you know, I've watched some of your stuff. I even DM'd you one time and we went back and forth on the exchange that was between us. But when your book came out and you came out with the book came out, I think you said something about how do you want to be remembered? And you said, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time. And this was the unguarded. And this came out November 9, 2021. If I'm not mistaken, The Last Dance came out during COVID. Was it April of 2020?

• 47:32Patrick Bet-David?

  I couldn't even tell you when The Last Dance came out. If you want to type in The Last Dance 2020 premiere. There it is. Okay. April 19th, 2020, which by the way, the timing of that documentary couldn't have been better than the way that right after COVID, because we all watched it Sunday night, two episodes for five weeks straight. So you were glued to the screen, 8 o'clock East Coast till 10 o'clock. And I'd bring the guys to my theater room. We'd sit there, watch that documentary together. It was epic. But when you said that, this is the one part that I'm really curious from, from your end. You said, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time. And there was kind of a little bit of the conflict where you were not happy about The Last Dance, about the stuff that was said, and maybe not enough being covered with you guys.

• 48:19Patrick Bet-David?

  You saying, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time. How much of that was really what you believed in? How much of that was you trying to sell a book? And how much of that was somebody behind closed doors flattering you saying you didn't get enough credit for what you did during the Chicago's run? Uh, I think it's just me believing in myself and the way that I played the game that, uh...

• 48:48Speaker 03

  I did it the right way. I did it where uh I won. I played the right way.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  My teammates loved the way that I played and people, my peers, respected the way that I played.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  And um I feel like that I got out of the game, everything that I put into it, you know. Um I was a guy that, I was a walk-on, you know. I was a, a guy that went to three camps to, just to get drafted and uh end up being the fifth pick. So I feel like the work that I put in over fifteen, twenty years um, you know, before and during my professional career, that uh I played the game the right way. That I played it where I showed younger players how to be successful and how to enjoy the game.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  I showed men, women, who is not as athletic, how to play the game and to play it the right way. And to play it from a team's standpoint.

• 50:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but to say, you, you know the technicalities of this, this game. And you know, during a moment like that, like, you know, the biggest debate is always, who's the greatest of all time? And last dance comes out and a lot of people, well, you know, Michael didn't highlight you. Michael didn't highlight Horace Grant and Horace wasn't too happy about it and, you know, I remember when Horace was in the league with him and his brother, right? If I'm not mistaken, his brother's name was what, Brian? I think it was uh.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Harvey.

• 50:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Harvey Grant, right. And he played for the Bullets, I think. I don't know what it was called back then. I think it was the Bullets, if I'm not mistaken. Also, a big guy, yeah, Harvey Grant. He played at the Blazers, but I think he started off with the Bullets, if I'm not mistaken.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, he was the Bullets.

• 50:44Patrick Bet-David?

  And I, by the way, I thought Horace was great, because I think Horace came to the Lakers as well, one season or two, and he had a pretty good run there as well.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:50Patrick Bet-David?

  So when you're going through it and you say something like that, this is, this is, I think this is a part where for. Someone like you that has been as involved in the NBA drama, positive drama, not negative drama. We're not talking about like, you know, drugs and stuff like that. I'm talking positive drama, the NBA that makes the NBA exciting, that people want to talk about. You know the weight behind you saying the greatest of all time? I'm personally, I'm wondering, was it, you fully believe? Because you've made some arguments that, you know, sometimes LeBron is a more complete player than Michael. You've had those types of discussions. Remember, I watch you, you don't watch me. I've watched you way more than you watch me, so I've seen you say stuff. You're Scottie Pippen. You're not just a regular player that played in the game.

• 51:34Patrick Bet-David?

  You're a Hall of Famer, top 50. And arguably, when we put our starting five together, dude, I want you on my team. Because I want somebody that plays defense the way you do, that's an all-around guy, that as a defensive player. Dude, you, I can only imagine in practice how I was guarding Michael every freaking day in practice. What is that gonna do to you? That's a scary job to have, to get better at that, right? But you said the greatest, so. When I see a fall sometimes, or I see something, it's people on my ear. And sometimes the hardest thing to do in life, I saw my parents get a divorce. And when they got a divorce twice and they remarried each other, each family was saying, she doesn't appreciate you enough. He doesn't appreciate you enough.

• 52:17Patrick Bet-David?

  And this flattery is divisive, to put a little wedge between you. I know it's not a comfortable thing to probably talk about, but did any of that happen? Where someone was saying, come on Scottie, Michael would have never won six without you. Come on Scottie. And Michael said it himself, but from your standpoint.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  No, it's that's, you know, the reason why I say stuff like that is because when you play the game the way that I played it, you play on both ends.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Why can't I say that?

• 52:48Patrick Bet-David?

  That's okay, you can say that.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  So.

• 52:51Patrick Bet-David?

  No one's saying you can't say that.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  And say it and mean it.

• 52:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, so you do believe that?

• 52:56Speaker 03

  I'm saying, yeah. Look at my, look at the stats, I got six rings too. Look at my accolades, I got Defensive Player All-NBA. So, playing the game the right way and winning

• 53:10Speaker 03

  means something to me, and it meant a lot to me. I don't have the MVPs, but guess what? Somebody that was with me got it.

• 53:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you say?

• 53:22Speaker 03

  I don't, I didn't have the final MVP, but A, we won the championship.

• 53:29Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I get that, but that, that could be to say you're the-

• 53:34Speaker 03

  Well, here is my thing is, to me, before the nineties, before the nineties, I had never in my life heard anything about a GOAT in basketball.

• 53:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting, really?

• 53:49Speaker 03

  Never. I had never heard anyone say, who's the greatest player in the NBA?

• 53:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  Before the nineties, who was that, that guy then? If, if you had heard that, who was that, that guy? And why is he not being mentioned today?

• 54:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I would say the debate pre-nineties, you gotta realize, I'm in the Middle East during that time.

• 54:11Speaker 03

  I, I understand that, I understand that, so-

• 54:13Patrick Bet-David?

  The greatest basketball player in Iran was probably a different guy, but if I were to say the discussion, when I hear that one, uh, time that I don't know if was NBA was celebrating the top fifty greatest players of all time and Wilt and Michael are in the corner having a heated debate, this is a story I've read about. I don't know if that's true or not, but I've read about it in many different places.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Let, let me just go back a little farther.

• 54:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Please.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  Let's go back to the eighties.

• 54:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Before the eighties.

• 54:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:38Speaker 03

  Let's go in the mid-eighties.

• 54:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Who was the GOAT?

• 54:43Patrick Bet-David?

  During that era of all time?

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Of all time.

• 54:47Patrick Bet-David?

  I would say there's a strong argument at that time for Wilt being the greatest of all time. Because the Lakers hadn't yet gone on their-

• 54:54Speaker 03

  Why?

• 54:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Dominant, destroyed his, uh, uh, opponents.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  So why is he not mentioned now? Why is he not, uh, uh, I don't even hear about him now being in that-

• 55:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I mentioned Wilt, I mean, you're talking about the guy that has, uh-

• 55:09Speaker 03

  He got thirteen rings.

• 55:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, no, he didn't get thirteen rings. Russell got, uh, you're talking about Russell.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  I mean, Russell, yeah.

• 55:14Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm talking Wilt.

• 55:15Speaker 03

  Well.

• 55:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Russell got the eleven and the two additional ones, yeah, thirteen rings. But there's a difference because we can say Ori got seven, right? Ori's not in the discussion of all time. But Ori wasn't a, the face of the team and Ori-

• 55:30Speaker 03

  So, how, what's the credentials to be that guy?

• 55:35Patrick Bet-David?

  To be the greatest of all time?

• 55:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, that's a great conversation. I'm curious to know what you say. I'm a fan, I'll give you my opinion, but I want to hear from you.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  I don't think it exists in team sports.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  I don't think it exists in team sports.

• 55:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, um.

• 55:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't think it exists in team sports?

• 55:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 56:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Can I push back?

• 56:01Speaker 03

  Yes, please.

• 56:02Patrick Bet-David?

  So, there's a part of me that agrees with you in certain games, sports. For example. It's very tough for baseball. I don't know if you're a baseball guy or not, but in baseball, if you say who's the greatest of all time, you could say Babe because he was a two-way player and he hit the 700 plus. He had 60 home runs in a season. You could say Barry Bonds, but Barry didn't win the chips. And he, his career in the playoffs is suspect. You could say Willie Mays, 660. Defensive player. My argument is Willie. When I have the conversation, it's Willie. But then you could say you forgot about all the pitchers.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Here's my, here's my punch back at that. Is Barry Bonds able to strike anybody out?

• 56:47Patrick Bet-David?

  No.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  So, what did he do on the other side of the field to make him the greatest?

• 56:55Patrick Bet-David?

  He was a Golden Glove guy. He was a, he was a good, uh, but he didn't strike people out. But I think it's a different game in baseball than basketball. I think in basketball, um, you know, when, when, when I think about basketball.

• 57:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so maybe let me play this game in a different way with you. You're an NBA owner, Scotty.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:19Patrick Bet-David?

  We're gonna play a game called NBA Draft Pick.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's your number one draft pick to put a team together?

• 57:29Speaker 03

  Which era?

• 57:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Any era.

• 57:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Today, to play today, who do you pick as your number one draft pick?

• 57:40Speaker 03

  In today's era, player, I'll take Wemby Emma.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  The young player with San Antonio.

• 57:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so you're all time. To pick your number one draft pick, you pick Wemby one. Wow, who's two?

• 57:56Speaker 03

  Well, you saying now, so I gotta look at this era and say, hey, this kid, y'all, he's got one year.

• 58:02Patrick Bet-David?

  So you think Wemby?

• 58:04Speaker 03

  I'll develop him.

• 58:05Patrick Bet-David?

  You think Wemby in this era does better than Michael would do in this era?

• 58:10Speaker 03

  Well, you asked me this era. That's why I asked you.

• 58:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Which? No, then do all time. I'm sorry, do all time.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Do all time, then I'm gonna pick my, my era.

• 58:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  I'm gonna pick the team that won six titles.

• 58:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's your number one draft pick? Player?

• 58:25Speaker 03

  I'm gonna pick Michael.

• 58:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, who's your two?

• 58:28Speaker 03

  I'm gonna pick me.

• 58:30Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree. Who's your three? To put a team that wins, who's your three?

• 58:33Speaker 03

  I'm gonna pick Dennis or Horace Grant, whichever era.

• 58:36Patrick Bet-David?

  I see what you're doing. I see. Okay, so let's just say Dennis is three. Who's your four?

• 58:43Speaker 03

  Dome out, get me in about, I'll take you.

• 58:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So let me get this straight. So your mindset is you, Michael and Dennis will beat any team that anybody puts together?

• 58:52Speaker 03

  We did it for three years.

• 58:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Twice.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  No, I did it with Horace the first time, but yeah, me and Michael did it for six.

• 58:59Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right, that's fair enough. I'm, I'm sorry. Yeah, so that's why I said Dennis or Horace. Okay, but if you're, and I want to qualify this because to me, that, that could still be a safe space answer because you're still saying that I'm picking us against anybody else, right?

• 59:17Speaker 03

  I'm picking the greatest team against anybody.

• 59:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but, but when you say you're the greatest of all time, and the, and the GOAT debate, that's still saying that you're ahead of Michael. So your position is still in the game of NBA, you're the greatest of all time all around.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  I, I'm speaking from a team standpoint.

• 59:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you put yourself ahead of LeBron?

• 59:37Speaker 03

  Team standpoint.

• 59:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you put yourself ahead of LeBron as a team standpoint?

• 59:42Speaker 03

  My success as a team is more successful than LeBron. I got six rings.

• 59:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so then if I, if I talk to an NBA owner, uh, by the way, this is very helpful because

• 59:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm loving it.

• 59:56Patrick Bet-David?

  This is very helpful because for me as a fan, I've, I've followed this. So if I speak from an NBA standpoint, owner, and I want to find an all-around player to be my number one, you think the average owner is going to pick you or LeBron?

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:00:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Okay. So that

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  You want individual accolades or you want championships?

• 1:00:23Speaker 03

  Cause I didn't chase mines.

• 1:00:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. And that's an argument that LeBron went to Miami. He went back to Cleveland to win with Kyrie and then he went back to LA to win with Anthony Davis. All are, you know, Michael never had teammates like that and you only had, you had Michael as a teammate, but, but, but in this specific context, Scotty, I think this is very important because I'm really trying to understand your position. Is specific with you against Michael.

• 1:00:51Patrick Bet-David?

  You still saying Michael's the greatest of all time, but maybe you're saying you're the greatest teammate of all time. Would that be a better way of qualifying it?

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  I would say

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  if you want to say it that, that way, but again, team sports to me, there's no goat. There's great teams.

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  But as an individual, you gotta go to individual sports.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

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• 1:02:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I think, I think, okay, so maybe...

• 1:02:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, the fact that I asked you to draft, who would you pick as number one? Just by you saying Michael won, you too...

• 1:02:44Speaker 03

  I looked at this era.

• 1:02:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  But if you asked me to pick a team, NBA, then I'm gonna pick my era and my team. That's the most dominant team that's played in the game. There's no team that's done what the Bulls done.

• 1:03:00Patrick Bet-David?

  You picked Michael ahead of you, though. So that, in essence, you're saying Michael's the greatest of all time?

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  Well, he's old in me, so he would've been in the game.

• 1:03:08Patrick Bet-David?

  You're so funny, Scotty. I am really trying to figure...

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  You want me to pick myself?

• 1:03:15Patrick Bet-David?

  You are so funny, Scotty. You are so funny. You're so funny. So, okay, so you're saying era. Wemby in your era, Michael in this era, who does better?

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  Wemby in this era and Michael in this era?

• 1:03:34Patrick Bet-David?

  So, no, no, no. Wemby goes to your era.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:03:38Patrick Bet-David?

  And then Michael comes to this era. Who does better?

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  Probably Michael.

• 1:03:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael would do better in this era?

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let's go to the next one. LeBron in your era with Michael, Michael in LeBron's era, who does better?

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  Probably Michael.

• 1:03:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, and then with Kobe, I'm assuming you're gonna say Michael, uh, of Michael and Kobe's era. It's kind of the same, so, okay.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  I would probably still say Michael would do better because

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  remember, Michael era, my era, early on, very physical, eighty-five, ninety-point games.

• 1:04:18Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  Different.

• 1:04:19Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  In today's game, we're looking at some games that'll get to one thirty, one forty.

• 1:04:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Boring.

• 1:04:25Speaker 03

  And, so, I think Michael would have strived off of just being

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  free, open.

• 1:04:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  Not having the physicality, uh, that he had to play with it night in and night out.

• 1:04:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael in the seventies era.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  Would he dominate it?

• 1:04:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Would, okay.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  I didn't play in the seventies, but I gotta imagine that the game was

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  even just as physical as it was in the eighties.

• 1:04:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Less, less rules, right? It was more fights, guys were, you know, it was a very physical era.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, uh,

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  I mean, I, I think he would have had success in that era, but the, the game has changed tremendously and from the ball handling, uh, to the steps that the players take, so, you know, when you ask me that, and how successful would he have been in the seventies? I don't know how the officiating would have officiated him.

• 1:05:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty, when are you running for office? Because your answers are so diplomatic. Let me tell you, man, if you're running for office, listen, uh, you said Reverend, uh, Jackson, who was it that you said, somebody's gotta call you and, and help Scotty campaign for something here.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  No, no, no, nothing, nothing political, but, but.

• 1:05:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Only reason I'm saying this, I'm teasing it, but your answers are, you know.

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  But I, I see a lot of changes in the game when I watch it, and I'm sure you, it's probably what turned you off, is that players are now allowed to take three steps going to the basket, you know? And so you, you wonder, you're like, wow, that's not a traveling, but it's not.

• 1:06:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a different game. It's just not as exciting to me, though. Let me ask you this question. You have one of two choices. Which of these two would you rather have? Would you rather have won a ring without Michael? Or would you have rather have made an additional hundred million dollars while you played in the NBA?

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  Give me that hundred million.

• 1:06:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Seriously?

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  I got a, I, I got a gold medal ring without Michael, so that, that, that made a lot, but, uh, yeah, definitely would have, uh, loved to play in this era.

• 1:06:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you have rather won that season where you guys got, what, forty-seven, forty-eight wins? You guys went, I think you went to the Eastern Conference Finals, if I'm not mistaken. Would you have rather won that year? Or that additional hundred million?

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  Oh, I would have taken that hundred million.

• 1:07:06Patrick Bet-David?

  How about additional fifty million or that ring?

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  I don't know, maybe I'll take the, uh, the, the ring.

• 1:07:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting. So the, so the number is what matters, the hundred mil-

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  The rings.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  It, it matters to be known as the best. It matters to be the best. It pays to be at the top.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:07:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty, so let you say, let you say you, let's, let's change this. I got a weird question for you. I, I guarantee you're not expecting this question to come to you. You ready?

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 1:07:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You ready for this one? Okay. So, the great Dominique Wilkins, when he played for the Atlanta Hawks, I think he averaged thirty-five points a game at one season, and he had multiple thirty-point season games. I think he was the only guy that outscored Michael in scoring, if I'm not mistaken. Can you pull up Dominique Wilkins' stats?

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  Trust me, I was the one he was giving all those numbers to.

• 1:08:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Go to, go to the NBA Reference, it does a better job showing the stats than this one. Just go to NBA, yeah, stats, and then go lower, keep going lower, lower, lower. Go to that one right there. That's the one I like, the way they break down stats. Okay, zoom in a little bit, zoom in a little bit, thanks, Rob. Okay, points per game, look at that right there, thirty-point-three was the eighty-five, eighty-six season. That's the year I think Michael was hurt, when he averaged thirty, and he got second in MVP voting, right, that season, but right after, twenty-nine, thirty-point-seven. And then he loses to Michael every year, except for the year that Michael was- And then rebounds, look at that, 30 points a game, 7.9 rebounds, 1.8 steals. This guy was a monster.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  Oh, he's a beast.

• 1:08:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Absolute monster of a guy. And field goal, he was at that time 47%. That three-point era wasn't a three-point era. What was his free throw? Oh, shoot, 82%. Damn, good for you. Okay. So here's a crazy question for you. You ready? The Bulls don't draft you.

• 1:08:59Patrick Bet-David?

  You get drafted to the Atlanta Hawks. It's you, Dominique, Kevin Wilkins. Michael doesn't pick you up. The Bulls get, can you go to the 87 draft? Go to the 198, what a game we're playing here. 1987 NBA draft. Zoom in. Okay, so where are you picked? What, you're number five? Okay, so Michael and the team, they pick up Kenny Smith. Obviously, it's not up to him. But say you go to, somehow, some way, you end up with the Atlanta Hawks, and Kenny Smith goes to the Bulls.

• 1:09:38Patrick Bet-David?

  How many championships do you guys win at the Hawks? And how many championships does Michael win without you going there?

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  I still get my six.

• 1:09:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it, Scotty.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  3-3. I thought you knew.

• 1:09:51Patrick Bet-David?

  I know the number, trust me. I know the number. So you'd win six, you're saying?

• 1:09:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:09:56Patrick Bet-David?

  How many does Michael win?

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  Uh, maybe, he, he may be somewhere with LeBron, 2-3, somewhere.

• 1:10:02Patrick Bet-David?

  LeBron's got four now.

• 1:10:03Speaker 03

  Oh, LeBron got, I thought he had five.

• 1:10:05Patrick Bet-David?

  No, he's got four. He, I, he won two with Miami, one with Cleveland, one with the Lakers. Now you're throwing me off right now. How many did it win?

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  I am thrown off.

• 1:10:13Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, he won four. He won four. He won four. He's four and six in the Finals, if I'm not mistaken.

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  I don't know. I would, I would say, uh, I don't know. I feel like I'm gonna get my, my six.

• 1:10:25Patrick Bet-David?

  So you, Wilkins, Dominique, say, say Michael gets Michael, Horace, and Kenny.

• 1:10:34Patrick Bet-David?

  You're still getting your six.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, they can't stop me. Who gonna stop me then?

• 1:10:42Patrick Bet-David?

  That is such an interesting conversation that we just went into, just because the comments. So, okay, so take Dominique out. Put you, Drexler.

• 1:10:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Put you, Drexler. And Michael gets...

• 1:10:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's put Michael and, um... Rob, can you pull up top?

• 1:11:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm trying to see who I would pick here.

• 1:11:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's put Michael, top defensive players NBA 90s. NBA 90s, yeah. 90s NBA. You gotta put NBA though. NBA, yeah, there you go. Can you zoom in a little bit? I don't want it to look here, right there. That's why I said Drexler. So, ah, man, so NBA defense. Okay, go to 1990 rating right there. Olajuwon Robinson, Lambier, Rodman, Malone. Zoom in a little bit, Rob, if you could. Mark, keep me young. So it's always gonna be the centers, but go Mark, Jerome Kersey, Clyde Drexler. Okay, you and Clyde Drexler. I'm trying to get Michael somebody. Keep going lower. Is that all? Okay, keep going, keep going, keep going. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Man, see, that's the thing. The thing with you is...

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  I was a pretty good fit.

• 1:11:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, understatement, understatement. But you and Drexler. Michael and Barkley.

• 1:12:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause Barkley was a BMF.

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  Oh, he was a beast.

• 1:12:15Patrick Bet-David?

  You and Drexler, Michael and Barkley. Who would have had more chips?

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  I don't know. I think me and, me and Drexler might, might get him.

• 1:12:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it, you.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  I don't know if, uh... Michael will be able to keep his thumb on top of Charles.

• 1:12:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know if he can hold Charles down.

• 1:12:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Meaning keeping him coachable?

• 1:12:41Speaker 03

  Yes, for a season to win a championship.

• 1:12:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I see what you're saying. Okay, so keeping him disciplined to be a good Robin.

• 1:12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Very interesting that you're saying that.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  I still like my chances.

• 1:12:55Patrick Bet-David?

  This just got very interesting for me. Okay, so disciplined Michael and Karl Malone. You and Drexler. Cause Karl Malone's disciplined.

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  I see.

• 1:13:05Patrick Bet-David?

  He scored thirty-two, I think thirty.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  I may, I may give them the edge.

• 1:13:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You may give him the edge.

• 1:13:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, Karl's a tough matchup.

• 1:13:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. This just got very interesting, Scotty.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Patrick Bet-David?

  So.

• 1:13:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow, so I learned. If you have to choose between a hundred million and winning a championship without Michael, you take the hundred. But if it's fifty, it looks like you did accounting in your mind. You're like fifty million, fifty percent taxes, agent, twenty ends up to me, I'll take that chip.

• 1:13:39Patrick Bet-David?

  That was interesting. And then Dominique just got into the conversation today and Drexler and a bunch of these other guys. Uh, when's the last time you and Michael spoke?

• 1:13:49Speaker 03

  Uh, right around the pandemic.

• 1:13:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, so it's been, it's been a minute since you.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that the text exchange when he shot you a text, May of twenty twenty, and he said, hey, Scotty? I heard you're upset. Let me know when you have a minute to speak. Is that the last time you guys spoke?

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  Something like that.

• 1:14:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Something like, something like that. Did you actually call him? Like, did you guys talk or did you just text him?

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  No, I think we ended up speaking briefly.

• 1:14:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Did it end up being good, the conversation?

• 1:14:14Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I guess. Good and, good and final.

• 1:14:20Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what it was.

• 1:14:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Good and final. Because of you or because of him?

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  I just, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  I don't, I, I, I, I don't wanna pick because of who, it's just.

• 1:14:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:14:42Speaker 03

  Good and final.

• 1:14:43Patrick Bet-David?

  What's more likely to happen? Me going to Carbone in the next five years, Carbone in Miami, I don't know what's your favorite restaurant? Uh, let's say Flagler's in Palm Beach, cause it's closer to golf. Is it more likely of me seeing? Michael and Barclay having dinner at Flagler's? In Breakers? Palm Beach? Or is it more likely for me to see you and Michael having dinner in the next five, ten years at Flagler's?

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  I don't know what kinda dream you be having.

• 1:15:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Hahahaha.

• 1:15:16Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think though? Which of those two is more likely to happen? There's a Vegas odds. Like, we're trying to bet some money here on this one.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  I don't know. Uh, that's a tough one. I don't spend that much time in Florida. So I would probably say maybe highly likely maybe Charles.

• 1:15:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Over you?

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:15:34Patrick Bet-David?

  It's, it's, it's, um,

• 1:15:38Patrick Bet-David?

  it's,

• 1:15:44Patrick Bet-David?

  that's, that's wild. And, and would you say a big part of it is The Last Dance? And how that was portrayed? Would you say that was it? Would you say? Because I sit there and I watch, you know, for me, Kobe. I had Kobe at one of our, the late Kobe. I love Kobe. Kobe and I are six weeks apart, our birthdays and

• 1:16:03Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:16:04Patrick Bet-David?

  I watched him play. We had a relationship at the tail end of his, not even career, his life. And it was a great moment. And he said some stuff about Shaq and then Shaq and I had a conversation together years later. And it was great. And my son till today, he's met a lot of different people. His favorite athlete, he likes to talk about is Shaq. Shaq is his, Dylan loves Shaq.

• 1:16:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Patrick Bet-David?

  So, and then when you saw that one interview with Shaq and Kobe, they're sitting across from each other, right? That conversation that took place. And then you saw one with Magic and Isaiah. I don't know if you remember those interviews that they did like 10 years ago, something like that. Eight years ago, 10 years ago. It was great to see Shaq and Kobe together. It was great to see

• 1:16:49Speaker 03

  It was awesome.

• 1:16:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Isaiah and Magic together. Isaiah got emotional and he got up and they hugged each other. And you know, that whole thing with the two of them.

• 1:16:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Why, why is the tension so high with anything related to Michael? You and Michael, Barclay and Michael?

• 1:17:07Speaker 03

  Well, I, I, I don't know. I mean, I just think that, uh, Michael is, uh,

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  a very, uh,

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  difficult person to deal with. I played with him for years, so I know that, you know,

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  when it's time for you to move in your direction, then go in your direction. Don't,

• 1:17:34Speaker 03

  don't sit there and try to procrastinate or stretch it, that the relationship is not where it was or not what it used to be, and it's never gonna be the same. So, why try and make something out of nothing, or try to make something

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  that was never there?

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  So, uh...

• 1:18:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, um...

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Great, great teammate, but, uh, just, we just never were great friends.

• 1:18:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Never, even when you guys played?

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:18:15Patrick Bet-David?

  So, when you guys were at the Dream Team, that one clip when Ahmad Rashad asks and says, you know which one I'm talking about, when Ahmad says, "Hey, Michael, question for you. Three seconds left, fourth quarter. Who do you want to get the ball to go shoot, whatever?" And he says, "Me." You know which clip I'm talking about? He says Ahmad Rashad and says,

• 1:18:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:34Patrick Bet-David?

  No, you, he says, "Yeah, what kind of a question is that?" And then you guys are getting off the bus, he says, "Scott, this is the one right here. I, I, don't play the clip." Actually, you know what? You may be able to play the clip. Yeah, play the clip here.

• 1:18:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Do we have audio or no, Rob? Cause I can't hear that. Back up a little bit? Who would take the last shot? Me!

• 1:18:54Patrick Bet-David?

  That's dumb question. Me! So, and then if you wanna pause it, and this is, I think it's the right, uh, moment while you guys are getting off the bus and saying, "Where's Scotty? We gotta go play, uh, golf. Where's Scotty?" I think he's having a conversation. Did you guys golf a lot together or no?

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  Never.

• 1:19:10Patrick Bet-David?

  You guys never golfed?

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:19:12Patrick Bet-David?

  So who was he talking about to go golf with him, Rob? Wow, you guys never golfed together?

• 1:19:18Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:19:20Patrick Bet-David?

  So when you guys played together, how often was it for you guys to have dinner together?

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  I mean, we may have like a

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  pre-game meal or something like that, but we would, it's always a, a big, big party of people.

• 1:19:38Patrick Bet-David?

  How many times did just you and Michael have dinner in Chicago? Chicago has a lot of great, Scotty, stop it. Scotty, stop it.

• 1:19:47Speaker 03

  Never.

• 1:19:49Patrick Bet-David?

  You and Michael never had dinner together one-on-one?

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  Never.

• 1:20:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael's house just sold, the one in Chicago.

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Right? I think so for like 9.6 million or some number, some number like that, if I'm not mistaken. We liked the house. We, you know, we were interested, but possibly, uh, doing something with that because of the history in it. How often did you guys hang out in that house, go shooting basketball, talking, mentally getting ready for the playoffs?

• 1:20:20Speaker 03

  Uh, I never shot basketball there. Uh, I actually, uh, would go over in the morning when Grover was training. We would train together.

• 1:20:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty, can you get the mic a little bit closer?

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  I'm sorry. I was actually, uh, I would train with Michael, uh, I guess the last three championships that we, we won, we trained together at his house, but other than that, uh, we didn't really

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  put a lot of time in away from basketball. Uh, most of our time was spent, you know, whether we were working out or on the practice floor.

• 1:21:00Patrick Bet-David?

  That, that's, that's so wild to me because you know, that feedback was given sometimes about Kobe. Kobe wasn't a guy that hung out with, with his teammates. First run that he had. And then Phil, you know, the, the story about Phil brings Michael in and he says, hey, Michael, I want you to meet Kobe. And Kobe says, you know, I beat you one-on-one if we played one-on-one, right? You know, that exchange. And then Kobe, eventually you can tell him and Pau became best of buddies, brothers, family. You see Pau with Vanessa, with family. It's emotional, all of that stuff.

• 1:21:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow, that's, that's hard to believe Scotty. Would, would you, would you, would you say he was such a?

• 1:21:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, man, that's a.

• 1:21:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Because sometimes when, when a guy is such an alpha at the highest level. The, the idea sometimes to lead your guys is be close enough to influence. But far enough to not make them too comfortable with you. The Prince Machiavelli talks about that. A lot of leaders talk about that and it doesn't make sense to the average. You know, it's kind of like, what are you talking about? Is go build a relationship, go build a bond, et cetera, et cetera. Some guys go that route. I wonder how much of that was more from his analysis of. Listen, I'm above, I'm, I'm the leader, I'm the head guy here. And he didn't want to get too close to his guys, especially if you're saying you guys never had dinner together Scotty?

• 1:22:40Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:22:44Patrick Bet-David?

  And you never, you never golfed because you weren't a golfer?

• 1:22:47Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:22:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Or you a decent golfer?

• 1:22:49Speaker 03

  I think a little, little bit of both. I'm decent, but I didn't really care for the game much when I played.

• 1:22:55Patrick Bet-David?

  When season ended and it's off season, how often did you guys hang out in off season?

• 1:23:01Speaker 03

  Zero.

• 1:23:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was your guy? Was it more Horace? You and Horace, you and Dennis, you and?

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  Uh, probably more horse when I was there. I was probably more horse.

• 1:23:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was, who was close to Michael on the team?

• 1:23:14Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:23:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Him and BJ were close. I mean, when he came back to that one practice when BJ and him speaking and saying, hey, come and shoot a little bit.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  I don't know about that one, but if you say so.

• 1:23:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, no, listen, if I'm saying it, I'm just saying it because I saw, read about it. I don't know if I, I have the credibility of having been there. I just read about it.

• 1:23:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, there were times when guys that were brought in that kind of bonded with Michael. Uh, Sam Vincent, Daryl Walker, but those were veteran players that had been around.

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  Him probably previously, probably from college, but as far as players that he played with in the nineties, uh, he didn't really bond with players on that team.

• 1:24:05Patrick Bet-David?

  But I thought he was good friends with Oakley. I thought him and Oakley were very.

• 1:24:09Speaker 03

  Oakley wasn't on that team.

• 1:24:10Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, not, no, but Oakley from the beginning era when he was coming up, wasn't Oakley, one of his teammates, when they got rid of him, he was upset about it because he liked Oakley and they had a friendship together.

• 1:24:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the story that's being, was told, but.

• 1:24:29Speaker 03

  I don't know where that relationship is today.

• 1:24:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, okay. Well, I don't know what that relationship is today, but I, I don't know which story was when one time you guys are playing the Knicks and he says, hey Oak, let's go have dinner together. Oh, this was part of his Hall of Fame speech, if I'm not mistaken, when Pat Riley said, was it Pat Riley, was it Pop, uh, uh?

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  Pat didn't, didn't want the Knicks players hanging out with us.

• 1:24:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, Pat ran it like a mob boss. Pat wasn't a regular, you know, he was a, um, and then Michael's like, what do you mean? You know, no, I can't because I'm with the Knicks. So, Pat Riley often, the greatest respect you can have for great players to show them none.

• 1:25:11Patrick Bet-David?

  During the nineteen ninety-three Eastern Conference Finals between the Knicks and the Chicago, Riley's comment was in response to Bulls complaints about officiating. Go a little bit lower, Riley believed that players should be hardworking, disciplined. Riley's first was with the Knicks with Matt ninety-four five, Riley is considered one of the greatest NBA figures of all time. He won seven champ, yeah, and he owns the patent on, uh, three P, if I'm not mistaken.

• 1:25:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

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• 1:26:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Who, Rob, can you? Who was Michael's best friend in the NBA?

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  I don't know. You got Charles Barkley.

• 1:26:47Patrick Bet-David?

  While they played?

• 1:26:49Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:26:50Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, so we can, you know, transition to the next story, but I'll tell you how I process this. And Scotty, whatever I say, please tear it apart. Don't just kind of let me get away with saying this here. Okay, I want you to tear it apart and say you have no clue what you're talking about. So there's no way a guy does what Michael did. You know, the number of scoring titles, finals MVP. You know, one guy who was the MVP, finals MVP, you know, defensive player of the year, and he's only four people have ever done that, and he's the only guy that's done it four times. You know, the one that we all read about and we all see about.

• 1:27:34Patrick Bet-David?

  In a number of seasons, he played 82 games and the phrase about the fact that I'm not gonna miss a game because a father, maybe the only game he's bringing a son over to the game that I'm gonna go out and give my best because I owe it to that father that brought his kid. And being a guy that was a sportsman, the face, taking it to different eras. There's something that he said at the end of The Last Dance. And I'm curious to know how you process this because I don't know if anybody's asked you of this. Remember at the end when he gets emotional and he steps away and he says, look, if you can't understand me that we did this and I wanted to win and I wanted to do this and da, da, da, da, da. And that was the only time that he got emotional and he got away. How did you process that? That moment when he's looking at that iPad? And he's kind of giving a message and he needed a break?

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  I didn't see it.

• 1:28:21Patrick Bet-David?

  You didn't watch The Last Dance?

• 1:28:23Speaker 03

  I didn't see that part of it.

• 1:28:25Patrick Bet-David?

  So you didn't watch all the 10 episodes?

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:28:27Patrick Bet-David?

  After what episode did you stop watching it?

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  Probably, I don't know, probably six, seven.

• 1:28:38Patrick Bet-David?

  The Koo Coach episode?

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, something like that.

• 1:28:41Patrick Bet-David?

  You saw that episode? Was that the one where you're like, you know what, screw this, I'm done?

• 1:28:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't want to see it. My kids got turned off on it, so it's kind of turned me off. So I didn't have any interest to watch it anymore.

• 1:28:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. Well.

• 1:28:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Very interesting. Very interesting, but to me, sometimes it's when, when, when a guy that comes in and is the lead dog and got a lot of the thorns that came his way, it's very hard to be a Michael. And I think it's also very hard for anybody to understand Michael. Anybody to understand Michael.

• 1:29:25Patrick Bet-David?

  I think there's only a few guys that can probably expound on that. To understand the, the level of, you know, craziness to compete and the drive and the, it's not, it's not a, I don't know how many people you can put in that to compare it to. Maybe a Brady and a couple other guys that, you know.

• 1:29:48Patrick Bet-David?

  That's so interesting. I just learned a lot, Scotty.

• 1:29:52Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Well, I will say he, Michael, he was built different. Competitive 24/7.

• 1:30:03Speaker 03

  Not too many people are built like that.

• 1:30:05Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  Willing to compete at any level and at anything.

• 1:30:14Speaker 03

  So, uh, when you look at these players in today's era,

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  being LeBron, there's really no comparison. When you talk about the level of competitiveness.

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  Michael bunched up all of his competitiveness and sort of exposed it out to the world. But then 12 to 14 years, we saw his whole resume, his competitiveness, his drive, his will to win, what he's want to do.

• 1:30:55Speaker 03

  When someone like LeBron has to spread that out for 20 plus years, it's not the same drive, it's not the same fight, it's not the same hunger. And so when people try to make those comparisons of those two players, it's like talking to someone in the front seat in the backseat. They ain't even in the same lane.

• 1:31:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you see today, by the way, what a frickin' point you just made. Condensing timeframes, you know, I don't know if you saw the stat today, who posted it that said, yes, LeBron may have passed Michael in the most 30-point games. It'll take another 32 years to pass Michael in 40-point games, right?

• 1:31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, it's,

• 1:31:39Speaker 03

  it's not even worth talking about.

• 1:31:42Patrick Bet-David?

  The two of them.

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  When you ask, who's better, LeBron or Michael? You can't ask me who's the GOAT between LeBron and Michael. Neither one of them are GOATs. They both won differently.

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  You can't put them at the top of the pinnacle. Magic Johnson, to me, is a bigger GOAT than anybody because of how he led,

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  how he brought a whole team. How when the greatest scorer in the game, Kareem, was not there and him as a rookie,

• 1:32:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Center.

• 1:32:16Speaker 03

  Steps in and plays a position that no one even knew he could play.

• 1:32:24Speaker 03

  That's transcending what you can do as a player.

• 1:32:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's why when you asked the question, how do you define it for GOAT? Your definition is very different.

• 1:32:39Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, to me, the definition of comparing a LeBron versus a Michael,

• 1:32:48Patrick Bet-David?

  you know, LeBron had a Wade, LeBron had a Bosch, LeBron had a Kyrie, LeBron had a Anthony Davis, and Michael had you.

• 1:33:00Speaker 03

  It's a different game too.

• 1:33:02Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a different game too? I think for me, when I-

• 1:33:06Speaker 03

  LeBron got lanes every night. When we played, there were no lanes. Was nothing but hardwood floor. If you go to the basket, you're gonna hit the wood.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  There's no comparison. There's

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  the basketball in the late 80s until the early 90s. Physical, hard nose, no layups. Earn it from the free throw line. Today's game, it's about three-point shooting. It's about driving it to the basket. Finishing.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Did you hear me say? Earn it at the free throw line? That doesn't even exist in today's game. It's just about shooting the ball, shooting the ball.

• 1:34:00Patrick Bet-David?

  You said one time, when you had a conversation with Michael about, when he went to the Rockets, and Barkley was a teammate, and he said something to you, he says, "I probably should have listened to Michael a year ago when he said that Charles will never win a championship because he doesn't show any dedication, he's a very selfish guy." He said all this stuff to you, right? "That's my reason for wanting to get away from playing with him because he just doesn't show the dedication."

• 1:34:23Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, those are tough words to be said from Michael to a friend that is Charles. Looking back now and having the wisdom that you have today, you had a lot of, everybody wanted you. You could have gone anywhere. Anybody and everybody wanted you. What would have been a different situation? What, what do you look at where you said?

• 1:34:45Speaker 03

  Well, I'm gonna be honest that my, my options weren't that great.

• 1:34:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  Uh, because of the way that the CBA.

• 1:34:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:34:54Speaker 03

  Was set up.

• 1:34:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  And.

• 1:34:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Who did you have as options?

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  Well, I had Phoenix, but it was for less money.

• 1:35:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:35:04Speaker 03

  Um, I think Philadelphia. Didn't wanna go play in a cold climate.

• 1:35:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Who did Philly have at that time? Was it AI?

• 1:35:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it still AI? Was it, uh, yeah, it was AI.

• 1:35:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause it was tail end, so it would have been AI.

• 1:35:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:21Patrick Bet-David?

  They had, um, well, he didn't have, he had the Kimba Mutombo, I think. I don't know if he had a left already.

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, I showed no interest.

• 1:35:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:35:30Speaker 03

  It was, I, I definitely wanted to be in a, a warm climate. And I, I saw Houston as an opportunity for me really to play with two veteran guys. And that we could, you know, make something happen real quick. And it was the, the lockout season, but it was, uh, definitely a short-lived.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  In fact, Charles started out working out with me and he was all dedicated and working out me and him with Grover. I took Grover down there and he lasted about a month.

• 1:36:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it because what? It's just a bit, little too much with Grover? He's?

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't too much for Grover. It was too much for him.

• 1:36:13Patrick Bet-David?

  No, that's what I'm saying. To, to go with a Grover, it's a little too much for Charles.

• 1:36:16Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, he, he wanted to enjoy his nightlife and our, our workouts was predicated on getting up in the morning and training before practice.

• 1:36:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, I can see that. And, you know, uh, uh, it's, it's, when the, when the business pays you a lot of money and you have the ability to go party, sometimes it's hard to say, I wanna, I wanna get up and go get that ring. And, you know, uh, uh, for everybody, every, by the way, who's your favorite teammate you ever had? And who was your best teammate you ever had?

• 1:36:46Speaker 03

  Wow. Wow. I, I, can I give them both to Michael?

• 1:36:53Speaker 03

  I mean, I can't knock him and say he was a bad teammate. I can't knock him and say he wasn't my favorite. I mean, we had a lot of success, so I would say he probably fit both of those categories.

• 1:37:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty, you're interesting, buddy. I gotta tell you. Who's your second favorite?

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Uh, I mean, I love playing with Horace Grant. I love playing with Dennis. Uh, and I would probably say Horace was probably my favorite at first because we got drafted together. We went to the Bulls together. We won our first three championships together, but he ended up leaving. So the, the, the bond with Michael uh became better. And just on the court, really, not, not off the court, but.

• 1:37:47Patrick Bet-David?

  More dinners with Horace than Michael, that's for sure.

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. Is that cat story true, by the way?

• 1:37:54Speaker 03

  What's the cat story? I gotta hear this one.

• 1:37:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Whose cat got sick or someone's cat died? What is that? Tell me this.

• 1:38:01Speaker 03

  That's not a true story.

• 1:38:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Scotty, be honest here because this cat's.

• 1:38:04Speaker 03

  That's, that was like a Horace Grant sort of, uh, I'm skipping practice kind of, uh.

• 1:38:11Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, there's probably only gonna be three people listening to this story with the cat, but what's, what's the cat story?

• 1:38:16Speaker 03

  Well, Horace Grant would always skip practice.

• 1:38:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Why would he skip practice?

• 1:38:20Speaker 03

  His cat got sick.

• 1:38:22Patrick Bet-David?

  It was a joke, though.

• 1:38:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he actually have a cat?

• 1:38:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:38:30Patrick Bet-David?

  So who actually believed it? Was it, was it like, is it a joke or was he seriously?

• 1:38:35Speaker 03

  It was actually not a joke, but because, you know, NBA players, if you call in and say you're sick, the team can't do nothing but take your word, right? So Horace would always, not always, but he'll call in occasionally and say he was sick. And so we had this older coach, Coach Johnny Bach. He was our defensive coach. So he always would say, well, his cat got sick.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:39:01Patrick Bet-David?

  And it stuck.

• 1:39:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:03Patrick Bet-David?

  But in reality, he never got sake to say because of his cat.

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:39:08Patrick Bet-David?

  It was a joke that the coach made. Well, listen.

• 1:39:10Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:39:11Patrick Bet-David?

  That coach, that one little joke is still here.

• 1:39:14Speaker 03

  It's still relevant.

• 1:39:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Forty years later, forty years later. Gotta give him credit. So final stuff before we wrap up here. In regards to Zion, okay? In regards to some of these guys that are coming in, they're getting paid, what they're getting paid. I remember Michael said something about like, some of these guys are getting paid without having to earn it. I don't know when this was he said. It could have been 20 years ago or 15 years. He said it a while back. When you look at a Zion, have you ever spoken to him one on one and trying to coach him and give him feedback or no? Have you guys?

• 1:39:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:39:44Patrick Bet-David?

  So, okay, so if Zion is listening, I mean, he, so many people give him feedback of what to do. This is a guy, if I'm not mistaken, he's got a 43 inch vertical leap. I don't know what the number is. Rob, can you pull up Zion's vertical leap? I've seen 41, I've seen 43, I've seen 46. Okay, so 45 and 46 and a half vertical leap. Okay, I don't know what the number is. But he's got a big vertical leap. The weight, the ripping the shoes in college when he's playing is like, you know, when Paul George jumping in and, you know. You remember this, this guy's amount of power that he has. A guy like Zion Williamson, who's right now, I think, only 24 years old.

• 1:40:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you foresee him changing and being able to have a longstanding career, performing, Hall of Fame type of guy, or you don't see that happening?

• 1:40:32Speaker 03

  No, I don't see it happening. I, I, I don't know how much longer he's, he's gonna be on the court. I mean, I, I think that the organization has been over backwards to maintain some professionalism to the fact that this kid is not even on the court. He's not even working to be a professional basketball player. It's almost like when you watch him, you're seeing a kid sitting on a college bench and still hasn't

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  found.

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  What's gonna be fruitful for him in life? Uh, whether it's his diet, um, putting the right people around you, um, getting yourself ready, staying healthy. Uh, I don't, I don't know what to say about his career thus far because uh, all indication shows me that if there's a lockout, if there's any injuries major to him, it's gonna take him out.

• 1:41:47Patrick Bet-David?

  If there's a lockout, it's gonna take him out because what? Lack of discipline, eating, putting on weight, getting to 300 pounds?

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  He hasn't shown that he's disciplined enough to take care of himself physically yet.

• 1:42:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Is he savable?

• 1:42:02Speaker 03

  Oh, he's definitely savable. There's a lot of GMs out there watching and hoping that New Orleans sort of dropped the ball. I mean, there's organizations out there would love to embrace this kid and really get him

• 1:42:17Speaker 03

  to where he can be a great NBA player because I think putting him in a position where he is sort of a veteran. I mean, I, I look where the, the kid that went to Duke is the oldest player on their team. Well, he's probably three or four years older than Zion. So veteran leadership around this kid may help him.

• 1:42:43Speaker 03

  And to help jumpstart his career in a sense that it's just as important for him off the court to work on himself as it is on the court.

• 1:42:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Who, who, who do you think would put him in his place where he would have a level of fear and respect for that person?

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  Either gonna make him or break him.

• 1:43:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Somebody like that.

• 1:43:06Speaker 03

  But I like Pat Riley.

• 1:43:10Speaker 03

  In the Miami Heat organization.

• 1:43:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, you saw how much he Pat got this week when Jimmy saying he wants to leave and somebody came out. I don't know who came out and criticized Pat saying you're just too much. You're always pushing people out. Who's who said that about Pat? Somebody criticized him hardcore. And he said, maybe you're right. Maybe it is time.

• 1:43:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Who who who criticized?

• 1:43:27Speaker 03

  I don't know who said that about Pat, but I I I did see where he kinda took the blame and pointed it back at himself and said, maybe I am, but.

• 1:43:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, Paul Pierce it was. I saw Paul Pierce saying, yeah, if you can pull it up, Rob. Paul Pierce slammed Riley for disrespecting Butler, the six time All-Star. Once I get whatever I get out of you, you can get the F out of here, Pierce said. That's what Pat Riley's mentality is. Yeah. And then Pat Riley said, maybe he's right, but I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know if I agree with that because I have a hard time with that mentality with Pierce saying something like that. Look, he can say whatever he wants. He scored 26,000 career points. He's a a legend and a champion when they won, but.

• 1:44:11Speaker 03

  Well, I I don't wanna say it the way Paul Pierce said it, but it's been known for many years that the Miami Heat does exactly what Paul Pierce said.

• 1:44:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's say he does. Let's say he does. Okay, who else can shape up to him? So why did LeBron, Dwayne and Bosch go there? Why did so many people want?

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  They left.

• 1:44:36Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I get that, but they want championships.

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, when you're young, you can work for Pat Riley, but as you get older, like a Jimmy Butler, uh, his system will break you down.

• 1:44:49Patrick Bet-David?

  I can see that. And by the way, you know what? You know what that could tell me as well? Look, Nick Saban wasn't a good NFL coach, but he went and became the greatest college football coach of all time.

• 1:44:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I I think you have to look at the game differently from a whole perspective.

• 1:45:04Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:45:05Speaker 03

  These players ain't about winning championships no more. They're about running a business.

• 1:45:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  Okay, so Jimmy Butler knows that his body is his business. And if you want to continue to use my service, then

• 1:45:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Pay me.

• 1:45:22Speaker 03

  Take care of my my business.

• 1:45:24Patrick Bet-David?

  What a bad way of looking at it for the fan.

• 1:45:28Patrick Bet-David?

  What a bad way of looking at it for the fans.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  I hate to say that the fans have to see it that way.

• 1:45:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  But the players got to maximize what they can get in such a small window.

• 1:45:39Patrick Bet-David?

  It's interesting you're saying that. I mean, I can bring up some stats. Maximize earnings? So Scotty, when you played, the median NBA salary in 93-94 season was 1.3 million dollars.

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:45:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That was a median salary, 1.3 million dollars, right? These guys, right now it's 5.57 million dollars. The average salary today in the NBA, at that time, the average salary was 1.75 million. The average salary today in the NBA is 11.124 million dollars. That's almost 6X. That's not 7X.

• 1:46:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I mean, in all fairness, I'm always been on the player's side.

• 1:46:24Patrick Bet-David?

  I understand that. You ought to be.

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  I definitely think that, you know, from a player's standpoint, I've been in this situation, I've been in the game, that you got to maximize your value. You're not going to stay that valuable forever. So Jimmy Butler's value is up right now. In two to three years, or whatever, it may not be up. So I respect him speaking.

• 1:46:50Patrick Bet-David?

  This is actually nothing to do for me with Jimmy. I'm actually, Jimmy, go do what Jimmy wants to do. I'm not, this is not a Jimmy conversation. To me, this is a Paul conversation because watch what you said. When I ask you, who do you think can shape up Zion?

• 1:47:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I said, I said Paul Riley's the way they do it, but I also say it.

• 1:47:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Young.

• 1:47:10Speaker 03

  He's going to make him or break him.

• 1:47:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. Well, listen, my opinion, you ain't going to find too many Rileys nowadays. You're just not.

• 1:47:21Speaker 03

  No, but there's not going to be a.

• 1:47:26Speaker 03

  That type of management in the game much longer.

• 1:47:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Unfortunately.

• 1:47:32Speaker 03

  Because players are now have lot more balance.

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  They have a lot more rights in the in the game in terms of not playing with injuries, not playing back to backs.

• 1:47:51Patrick Bet-David?

  See, to me, you know what that says?

• 1:47:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Try that mindset in the NFL, it won't work. Good luck with that mindset in the NFL.

• 1:48:03Patrick Bet-David?

  And in the NFL, these guys are, you know, you're talking about life ending, risk on the line, the way you play. Neck, paralyzed, all this other stuff, okay? You know, you don't hear stuff like that. The worst thing I've seen in the NBA last 30 years was Paul George. Remember that hole when he came down on the leg and it broke?

• 1:48:24Speaker 03

  That was the Olympics.

• 1:48:26Patrick Bet-David?

  That was, yeah.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  The Olympics, yeah.

• 1:48:27Patrick Bet-David?

  No, he was, he was with the Pacers when that happened. I don't think it was the Olympics. It was, can you pull up when he did that? I thought he was, I don't know which one it is. It's, it's right there. It's the third, third line, second picture. Third line, third, right there. That's him right there. Yeah, when he broke the leg, it literally split in half, right? I don't know. I, I think that's a part of why I'm, it's, it's, it's unattractive to watch this game. Don't get me wrong. A, a, a person's gonna come up like George Carl.

• 1:48:56Speaker 03

  That was the, the Olympics though.

• 1:48:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it the, maybe you're right. Maybe it was the Olympics.

• 1:49:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was the Olympics.

• 1:49:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Based on what you're, yeah, it was the Olympics. You're right, it was the Olympics.

• 1:49:07Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, you, you're right about this one. You were wrong about LeBron winning only two, he won four, but you're right about this one. So, to me, I think that's what's unattractive about the NBA. I think the players are so protected and, and, you know, it's like, oh my God, don't offend the players.

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  So you think that was her thing?

• 1:49:26Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I, I.

• 1:49:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, because the priority is not fans first. You forget who, like, for example, any, anybody that becomes too wealthy in business. The moment I forget that we don't have this business with our guys that are working as hard as they're working, or the viewers that are watching, and you start thinking you're pompous and everything's around you, what are you talking about? You have nothing without the fans. If, if you don't have the fans, who pays you? Fans, the guy that created the game and then fans showed up and the fans kept supporting and that caused to get more eyeballs and sponsorship and that was able to get guys from getting paid eighty grand a year, twenty grand a year, to making eighty grand sometimes a minute you play for some players, right?

• 1:50:14Patrick Bet-David?

  This game is a very, very different game today. And, but what's this one, Rob? This is Colin Cowherd saying what?

• 1:50:20Speaker 04

  Uh, it kind of back to what you were talking about, being detached from the regular people, being detached from the fans and the effect it's had.

• 1:50:27Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about Colin, by the way?

• 1:50:30Speaker 03

  Oh, I, I fucking love him.

• 1:50:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 1:50:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Play this clip, Rob.

• 1:50:35Speaker 05

  Your Goodell has navigated a multitude of cultural changes. Uh, that CTE issue, that, that was bad. Uh, and overlooked for a long time by a previous commissioner or two. And here he's made the PAT interesting. He tinkers, he evolves. And the NBA meanwhile, ratings are down forty-eight percent in the last twelve years and they have fallen off a cliff this year. And Adam Silver's solution is let's make the courts brighter. Um, and I like the NBA, but the All-Star game is now embarrassing and I think load management is a shame on the league. It is a, it is a really bad look for a family of four

• 1:51:19Speaker 05

  to go to a game and Giannis doesn't play or MB doesn't play. I'm sorry. Go ask the Democrats. Be warned, once you detach from regular people in America, you will pay a price.

• 1:51:34Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about what I just said?

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  I, I, that's true fact. I mean, um.

• 1:51:43Speaker 03

  Fans are students of the game as well. They're not just fans, you know, they they know the game. And so you seeing players over there that you worked hard all week to earn money and to bring your family out for a family evening and now they got sitting over there in sweats. That's not even a team uniform and

• 1:52:10Speaker 03

  it's like, really? Is this what I save my eight hundred bucks for? To come see this guy stand on the sideline?

• 1:52:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:20Speaker 03

  So, um, yeah, he's truly right. I mean, but that's the direction of where the game is. You cannot make players play. And to be honest,

• 1:52:35Speaker 03

  this will continue to go on.

• 1:52:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I agree.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  It's not gonna stop.

• 1:52:38Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree with you.

• 1:52:40Speaker 03

  Players are now at the point where they are saying, I'm gonna play fifty games.

• 1:52:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow. And owners can't say shit.

• 1:52:50Speaker 03

  And you're gonna pay me for eighty two?

• 1:52:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That is unfreaking believable, Scotty. That's why I would never own a an NBA team. I got a call on the opportunity to be a minority owner of two NBA teams. And a guy called me for MLB and a guy called me for the Raiders. When this guy called me, he's a well-known guy that sells teams. And I was interested in the Raiders. But to me, it would, you know, it's between that or the Yankees. I'm gonna go Yankees. So I won Yankees about two rounds of ownership. Anybody that sells, I was interested.

• 1:53:27Patrick Bet-David?

  And when the NBA came about, I had zero interest because I don't believe in the product. I think they've they've destroyed the product where who would want like? Even a Mark Cuban is a business, astute businessman. So, by the way, don't get me wrong, the NBA is gonna keep getting paid. Why? Because they're winning internationally. The eyeballs are increasing. They're gonna keep making money. The product is not going away. Guys are just gonna start making eighty, a hundred million dollars here the next five to ten years. They're gonna get paid.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  So is that forty eight percent viewership being down not hurting them?

• 1:53:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Here, that's here. Because they can go internationally and still be able to sell marketers and say, hey, look how many eyeballs we're getting here. But to me, um,

• 1:54:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I Yeah, I, I, I have a hard time with that. I have a hard time when you forget fans, customers, fans, customers. We go to dinner and we go to restaurants. If my kids don't say, "Thank you, please", what makes you think, because you're, we have, we have an okay lifestyle that we get to think? No, no, that person's serving us. We have to be respectful to this person. We have to tip them properly. We have to take care of these folks.

• 1:54:42Patrick Bet-David?

  It gives me the, the, the MBA of thinking you're above the fans. It's, it's, it's unattractive. And by the way, that's me. By the, it's coming from a place of, ask me stuff on stats from 1992 2010, 2015. I'm gonna be able to get you some stats and numbers because I follow this game so closely. But

• 1:55:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it's truly a, a different game.

• 1:55:11Speaker 03

  The players are a lot more sensitive in a sense that they don't want any reaction with the fans. They don't want the fans having any type of camaraderie with them at all. They always feel that fans are a threat. And

• 1:55:32Speaker 03

  they have sort of, um, to me, they have separated themselves. It's the players and it's the fans. And if you say something to me, it better be fucking nice, or I'm gonna have you removed from the arena.

• 1:55:46Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you feel about that?

• 1:55:48Speaker 03

  I think it's bad. I think it's bad that players cannot take criticism. I think it's, I used to love going in the stands and having people call me out on my name.

• 1:56:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, didn't you call out what's his name? When you dunked on, uh, Ewing and you shoved him and who was on the sideline?

• 1:56:06Speaker 03

  Spike.

• 1:56:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Spike, yeah.

• 1:56:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, I embrace, uh, the fans being a part of, you know, Getting at me, you know, trying to aggravate me. Now, I don't see that, you know, I don't see how you can.

• 1:56:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Whose fault is that? Is that Adam Silver that accepts it? Because that comes from the top, like kids can cry and say anything, but father and mother can say, no, toughen up.

• 1:56:31Speaker 03

  I can't say where's where that come from, but I can say that the game misses that. They miss that irritating fan. They miss that heckler that was irritating you and caused you to miss your free throws.

• 1:56:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:52Speaker 03

  Those are things that, you know, were a part of a game when I played.

• 1:56:58Patrick Bet-David?

  But by the way, just out of curiosity, who were some of the toughest guys? Like, remember that one time Vernon Maxwell and Ori Vernon ran up to like the 16th row that one game? I don't know if you remember that or not. Do you remember that?

• 1:57:10Speaker 03

  I don't remember Vernon, but Vernon was one of the toughest guys. He's a very close friend of mine and yeah, he was, he was a tough guy, but I mean, there was a lot of guys played in the league and that, you know.

• 1:57:24Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm talking like street tough, like tough, tough.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, but street tough can't go up in the stands, you know what I'm saying? We still have to be professional.

• 1:57:32Patrick Bet-David?

  I fully agree.

• 1:57:34Speaker 03

  You know, but there are guys who've gotten out of order and out of a hand, but you know, the commissioner has always been able to take care of that and keep things in, in order. But I, I think now, um, the fans are so afraid that they can't even call a player out in any bad way that.

• 1:57:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it.

• 1:57:57Speaker 03

  It's looked at as a threat.

• 1:57:59Patrick Bet-David?

  I say it comes from LeBron down to the league. I, I know you can't say that, you know, it's not something that, you know, you, you, you're, you're going to be seen as an analyst and some of the, Barkley will say it, some of these guys will say it, but I think it comes from the top down. And I don't think it's an exciting, by the way, I saw Vernon Maxwell the other day called out a former player, Vincent Askew. I haven't heard that name in a long time.

• 1:58:24Speaker 03

  I saw that.

• 1:58:24Patrick Bet-David?

  He said, he called me for 10 grand, don't give him the money, never pays back or whatever. Who, who were some of the tough guys that the players knew they're tough, but nobody talked about it? That you played against? Oakley, was he one of them?

• 1:58:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess I could say he's one of the tough guys, but you know what? That era of guys kind of faded in the nineties, you know? The Oakleys, the Buck Williams, you know, Buddha, James Elwood, who I played with. You know, guys that would just give hard fouls. Those were guys that were considered tough guys, guys that when you came in the lane, you gonna have to earn it.

• 1:59:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Who did we think was tough but wasn't tough? Like as a fan, we're like, you guys thought he was tough, he wasn't tough.

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  Are you a New York Knicks fan?

• 1:59:10Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm not.

• 1:59:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Who were you gonna say?

• 1:59:13Speaker 03

  No, I'm just, I'm just kidding. No, I.

• 1:59:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Listen, if you said Knicks, there's three names I think about. So were you calling someone out with the Knicks? Were you calling Mason? Were you calling Xavier?

• 1:59:24Speaker 03

  No, they were all tough.

• 1:59:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  They were all tough guys, but New York thought that they were the toughest team.

• 1:59:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Out of everybody?

• 1:59:30Speaker 03

  On the block back in the nineties, plus in the early nineties. We had some great battles with those guys.

• 1:59:36Patrick Bet-David?

  The story you hear about Michael Punch and Steve Kerr. Did you see Michael fighting a lot of people? Was that the only instance?

• 1:59:42Speaker 03

  I didn't see him fight anyone.

• 1:59:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, but the Steve Kerr, you're so funny. Is that like the?

• 1:59:48Speaker 03

  I, I didn't see it.

• 1:59:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you didn't see the one with Steve?

• 1:59:50Speaker 03

  I must have missed practice that day.

• 1:59:52Patrick Bet-David?

  You're joking right now, right? Is that what, just like the code of keeping?

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  No, my cat was sick.

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• 2:01:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, man. I think, I think, I think I get it. No, but that's cool. And by the way, last one with Wimby. You think Wimby's gonna go down as a, is he, is he gonna end up being like, uh, okay, he seems scary.

• 2:01:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, I do think he's, he's gonna go down as one of the great ones. I mean, from a statistical standpoint, it's just like I said, when I saw LeBron come in the game, um, these guys are gonna dominate the game statistically because of how the rules have been being and changed. Like, I mean, this guy can shoot a three-pointer whenever he get ready.

• 2:01:42Patrick Bet-David?

  It's ridiculous from like.

• 2:01:43Speaker 03

  That's the crazy part about it. It's like, you can't even contest his shot. You know, we think that Steph Curry got the freedom to dribble and shoot the ball, but now you're talking about a guy that's seven foot six. And, you know, with unbelievable range, um, you know, just watching him all the night, step across half court, pull up a three.

• 2:02:03Patrick Bet-David?

  What was that all about?

• 2:02:05Speaker 03

  You know, that's, that's what we're, we're gonna be seeing in the, in the next 10 years of the game is uh, a lot more shooting, um, from a lot bigger guys.

• 2:02:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Which, which of these records is most likely to be broken? Quadruple double, right? I think, uh, Hakeem, David, I think Alvin Robertson was the weird guy on the list that, uh, I, I wouldn't have expected him to be on the list. Alvin's the one that got into a first fight with Shaq.

• 2:02:32Speaker 03

  I don't expect that record to be broken.

• 2:02:34Patrick Bet-David?

  No one's gonna do a quadruple double?

• 2:02:36Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 2:02:37Patrick Bet-David?

  So for sure, you don't think anyone like.

• 2:02:39Speaker 03

  Because I think Hakeem may have got it because of steals.

• 2:02:44Patrick Bet-David?

  And blocks.

• 2:02:45Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah. I don't see Wimby getting the steals.

• 2:02:49Patrick Bet-David?

  So, okay, got it. So you're. Okay, so that's fully out. So you don't think that's

• 2:02:55Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't see him getting like, like Hakim, if you look at the stats, he's probably the top 10 in steals throughout the league. So it wasn't an accident that he got a quadruple double.

• 2:03:07Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, was he feared? Was he as tough as I read about? Like was Hakim?

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was tough.

• 2:03:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Would he, would he say stuff to you like, I'm gonna kill you? Or was he like, was he that kind of a guy?

• 2:03:16Speaker 03

  He was just tough, physical guy, had great hands. You know, he's like, you, you couldn't put the ball around him, you know? He was so good with his feet, his hands, so having those soccer skills, he's always was at the ball.

• 2:03:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  Had great hands in terms of how to knock it away.

• 2:03:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. I saw a clip the other day with David Robinson. I wonder how tough he was because I remember when, one time into the season, him and Shaq were going for the scoring title. I think he scored 72 points against the Clippers, some number like that. Shaq had 58 the last game of the season, he had 72. And I, I don't know who ended up winning the scoring title. I think it could have been him that won it. Hundred point game. Will anybody break that?

• 2:04:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:04:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes. What kind of a player would break it? More like a Steph Curry or more like a Shaq?

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  More like a Wimby.

• 2:04:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Really? Do you collect, do you collect cards?

• 2:04:13Speaker 03

  No, I don't collect cards, but I think for that to happen today.

• 2:04:21Speaker 03

  Because I think, isn't the court bigger than what it was when Wilt scored 100?

• 2:04:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I wouldn't know.

• 2:04:27Speaker 03

  Cause I don't think it was the three point shots were back then.

• 2:04:30Patrick Bet-David?

  No, for sure. They didn't have three point shots. That I know.

• 2:04:32Speaker 03

  But I think that, um, Wimby would be the guy if it could happen because of his size, he can shorten up the court. His size, his, his range.

• 2:04:48Patrick Bet-David?

  He's the guy. Well.

• 2:04:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Anybody beating the, the six championships undefeated? Six and O?

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  I, I don't think so.

• 2:05:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. All right. Well, Scotty?

• 2:05:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I've really enjoyed this conversation with you.

• 2:05:08Speaker 03

  I've had a great time here. It's been a, an awesome time.

• 2:05:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and, and some of your answers, I have to tell you, like, I was not expecting some of those answers. But it was from a fan standpoint,

• 2:05:22Patrick Bet-David?

  I want to fall in love with the game again. But I fell in love with the game of when you played. That's the game. When I came here November 28, 1990,

• 2:05:33Patrick Bet-David?

  the reason why my team became the Lakers is because you guys beat them that year, 1990-91 season. That was the year where that famous picture of Magic and, uh, you know, uh, uh, Michael, he's defending him. That one picture of, you know, the Sam Perkins, that whole era.

• 2:05:49Speaker 03

  It was all of the Magic and Michael.

• 2:05:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that, that, that, that's not the picture. There's a famous picture of them two guarding each other.

• 2:05:56Speaker 03

  That's it there.

• 2:05:57Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the one. You got it. That's the one. It was just the era. And you guys broke my heart because I was in LA. I said, I'm gonna be a Laker for life. And I rooted for the Lakers up until LeBron came to the Lakers. That's, that's me. Because to me.

• 2:06:13Speaker 03

  It's kinda funny you say that.

• 2:06:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me why.

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  I would think that would make you more of a Laker fan, but you're not a guy that, um, is sort of jumping on the bandwagon when championship, you believe in the journey and.

• 2:06:27Patrick Bet-David?

  I love the product.

• 2:06:29Speaker 03

  A real Laker.

• 2:06:31Patrick Bet-David?

  I was a Steinbrenner guy, and not Steinbrenner, a Jerry Bulls guy and a Steinbrenner. I love owners that wanna win so bad that they're willing to do anything. And Jerry Bulls won 10 in 33 years. Maybe the greatest owner of all time, by the way, Jerry Bulls. And the relationship he had with the players and what he did. Uh, but yeah, but you know, as a fan, you know, watching you over the years and now having a conversation, this was a treat. I appreciate you for coming out, Rob. Uh, gang, if you enjoyed it, I want you to do me a favor and support Scottie by going and buying his book and reading the story from him. Rob, put the link below, uh, for Scottie. And then, if anything Scottie said,

• 2:07:16Patrick Bet-David?

  you were kinda like, what's going on here? By the way, you know, one thing we haven't even asked that some of you guys probably wondering is, you said you made Satoshi and you're, you're not supposed to talk about it on Twitter and Bitcoin and all this stuff. What is that all about? Like this?

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  Well, I said I had a dream, but you know, speaking to my good friend, Michael Saylor, he said, "We don't talk about Satoshi."

• 2:07:37Patrick Bet-David?

  He said, "We don't talk about Satoshi."

• 2:07:40Speaker 03

  So, uh, learning from my mentor, I'm, um, I'm gonna take what he said as some good advice and, uh...

• 2:07:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Your mentor's worth around 10 billion dollars today.

• 2:07:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:07:54Patrick Bet-David?

  He's doing okay for himself.

• 2:07:55Speaker 03

  He's doing great.

• 2:07:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you with him New Year's Eve? Were you...

• 2:07:58Speaker 03

  No, I didn't make it down for New Year's Eve, but I was, uh, I was planning to come down for the boat party, but it kept getting postponed.

• 2:08:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, my man, Scotty, appreciate you for coming out. This was fantastic.

• 2:08:09Speaker 03

  Thank you. It's a pleasure to have me.

• 2:08:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Likewise. Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represents who you are. So for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat or a ValueTainment gear, you're telling the world, "I'm optimistic. I'm excited about what's gonna be happening," but you're a free thinker, you question things, you like debate, and by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with ValueTainment. We have so many new things. The cuff links are here. New Future Looks Bright, this is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for 100 of these. If you watch the PBD Podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones, i- i- if you, if you, if you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge,

• 2:08:55Patrick Bet-David?

  we have this high-quality lighter cutter and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the ValueTainment logo on it. We got mugs. We got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with ValueTainment, with PBD Podcast, go to VTmerch.com. And by the way, if you order right now, there's gonna be a special VT gift inside just for you. So again, go to VTmerch.com, place your order. Tell the world that you believe the future looks bright.

• 2:09:29Speaker 00

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• 2:10:01Speaker 01

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