174: Set Standards. Aspire to Achieve Them. Become an Eminently Qualified Human

0:00:00 – Opening 0:24:33 – Marine Corps Fitness Report 1:11:10 – Final Thoughts and Take-aways. 1:37:26 – Support: How to Stay On The Path. 1:53:57 – Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 174 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  So I was the commander of the training detachment, which runs the tactical kind of advanced training for the West Coast SEAL teams. And when I was in that position, one of the things that you have to do when you're in a leadership position is you have to give evaluations for everyone that works for you. You have to basically write down and evaluate how good they are and how well they do their job. This is normal for everyone in the Navy and everyone in the military, really. And in the Navy, it's a 5.0 system that you're getting graded on. So 5.0 is the best and 1.0 is the worst.

• 0:52Jocko Willink?

  I don't know if you can go lower than that, you probably can, but there and there are rules about how many people you can put at the top. You have to, it's called forced ranking. Have you ever heard of that? Forced ranking means you have to actually rank everyone. So if you have 10 people working for you, you have to rank, this is my number one guy. This is my number two guy, all the way down through number 10. And so what you cannot do is you can't just say, hey, everyone's great. Everyone's a 5.0. That's, that's, you're not allowed to do that. And believe it or not, that's what people would do. Most people would just, they have to evaluate someone. Guess what they say? Hey, you're great. You do everything great.

• 1:37Jocko Willink?

  And you wouldn't think that the military, right? The military would have a hard time telling people like, hey, here's some areas where you need to improve. You wouldn't think that the military, especially like the SEAL teams.

• 1:52Jocko Willink?

  You know, the big tough SEAL is gonna have a hard time telling some someone, hey, this is where your performances could be better, right? But actually, no one likes having those hard conversations. I should say just about no one likes having those hard conversations. And in fact, this is completely evident in the fact that there was an old evaluation system when I first got into the Navy. And there you didn't have to force rank, you could just make everyone perfect, basically on paper. And that's actually what happened. That system was a 4.0 system, so it was 4.0 was the highest that you could get. And everyone was a 4.0 guy.

• 2:34Jocko Willink?

  Everyone got 4.0s in everything. And I actually have to take that back, and I think I might have talked about this before, but my first evaluation that I got at a SEAL team, I wasn't even in a platoon yet, but I was going through the initial training that you used to do to SEAL team. When you got to the SEAL team, you did something called STT, which was stood for SEAL Tactical Training, and it basically taught you the little bit more advanced skills than you learned in BUDs. And I got a 4.0 in everything, but I actually got a 3.8 in a category called Human Relations. And I was, I guess, you know, I talked to my friends, they're like, yo, we got 4.0

• 3:19Jocko Willink?

  in everything, and everyone got a 4.0 except for me. Yeah. I got the 3.8. And so then, you're supposed to get a counseling, right, from, and the officer that had written my, the officer that had written my evaluation and given me all 4.0, 4.0 in tactics, 4.0 in this, 4.0 in the other thing, and then a 3.8 in Human Relations. And he had to counsel me, because that's what you have to do, you have to go through and make sure that no one objects. And he, he looked at me and he said, you know, I give you a 3.8 in, you know, in Human Relations, because...

• 3:53Jocko Willink?

  Well, because I think you're a little too hard on people that are that are unsat. Unsat, sure. And yeah, I kind of took pride in that, you know, because I at that time I wasn't really playing the game. You know, I kind of was thinking to myself, yeah, I, I, that's right. You know, if you're unsat, I am going to be hard on you. And you can probably guess of the group that I was in, which individual I was harder on than any one else was actually that guy. So that was kind of funny. But, you know, after that, after I got into a SEAL platoon, then all, you know, everything was 4.0 all the time. And again, I'm not bragging at all about that because every single guy, we all had 4.0s

• 4:36Jocko Willink?

  across the board on everything. And everyone was the best SEAL in the SEAL teams ever in the history of ever. That's what it was like.

• 4:43Jocko Willink?

  And everyone was, that's just, that's just the way it was. Everyone was the best. So the Navy realized this. Basically, the Navy realized that all the leaders were cowards. And when it came to telling the truth to the troops about where they stood and where they can improve. So they made, they made a change. They made this drastic change to the evaluation and they changed to this thing called forced ranking. Where whatever there was percentages on how many people could be ranked at the highest level. Like it was like 10% of your people can be ranked at the highest level and then 20% of the next tier. And it went on down the line. You didn't actually have to rank someone as bad, but you couldn't rank a bunch of people at the top. And

• 5:27Jocko Willink?

  it was, it actually made a, made a big difference all of a sudden. Because now all of a sudden you had to, if you were in a leadership position, you had to give your, some of your people some lower rankings. And you actually had to figure out who is better. And

• 5:41Jocko Willink?

  eventually what they did is, again, people not wanting to have hard conversations. Eventually what they did is because how you advance in the Navy is based on your evaluations, which is what we're talking about. But it's also based on how much time you have in grade. So you can't, if you make, if you're an E4, you can't make E5 for three years, or there's some, some random number, like you cannot make E5 for three years. And so what they started doing is just ranking you based on how long you were there for. And so

• 6:14Jocko Willink?

  that's, that's what they started doing. So basically it didn't really help.

• 6:19Jocko Willink?

  Because you still ended up just saying, oh, well, you know, you're just new and that's why you didn't get promoted. Well, I didn't really understand that. When the first, when the very first of the forced ranking evaluations came out, I had just made E5. And because I had just made E5, I got ranked at the bottom of the E5s in my platoon. And like I said, at this time, I wasn't really playing the game really fully. So I was kinda went to my chief and my lieutenant with, hey, why am I at the bottom? How can I be the lowest ranking of the E5s? Because that's just wrong. What about this guy here? You know, what about this

• 7:02Jocko Willink?

  guy over here? You tell me that this guy is doing a better job than I am? Because I was working really hard and doing a good job. And they didn't disagree with me. What they said is like, look, yes, Jaco, you're definitely doing a better job than that guy and that guy. But here's the deal. They're up for promotion and you're not. And when you're up for promotion, you'll be at the top when it's your turn. And again, I wasn't really playing the game. So I said, oh, okay, you know, I get it. Why didn't you just tell me that we're communists? Is what was what's going on there? And, you know, they're, no, we're not communists. It's just, you know, this is just the way that the system works. And I said, okay, so what you're telling me is this is a communist system is what's happening. Thanks, comrade.

• 7:48Jocko Willink?

  And of course, they did their best to explain it to me. And I didn't really listen because, like I said, wasn't really playing the game at this time. I was a young, you know, E5 getting after it. But eventually, it was me that was evaluating people and force ranking them. And then it was me that was explaining the rules of why people got ranked, where they got ranked, and why I gave them the grades that I gave them. And of course, I did this a bunch from when I was an assistant platoon commander and a platoon commander and a task unit commander. So I had done this a bunch. And now I was the officer in charge of the training detachment. And I had one of the guys that didn't like where he got ranked. He was, he didn't like it.

• 8:32Jocko Willink?

  He thought he deserved higher and he he thought he deserved a bunch of five O's that the highest possible grade and oh you know maybe not on all the criteria but on some of them and he actually requested an office call with me meaning he wanted to come and talk to me which was kind of weird because at this time people literally would just walk in my office all the time and you know say hey what's up I gotta you know they would talk to me about something I was super casual about people coming to see me no no factor right so when this guy went and actually organized an official meeting with me I was you know totally cool with it but it was weird and he came in and he had his evaluation

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  with him and he put it on my desk and you know he said something along the lines of you know I got ranked in the middle of the pack and how did this happen and I should be at the top or or at least I should be near it and I should have five O's and in you know this category and that category and this other category and the guy himself he wasn't a slacker by any stretch of the imagination he was a good really solid SEAL he wasn't like an over the top outstanding front runner but he was really really solid which you were only allowed to have a very small number of guys that you're ranking as front runners and he wasn't there and you know I was I was better at this point

• 9:56Jocko Willink?

  at playing the game you know up and down the chain of command and so what I did is I sat there and I listened to him and I listened to his perspective and as I was doing that as I was listening to this guy and I was thinking to myself you know this guy's a hardworking SEAL he thinks he should have higher grades across the board he thinks he should be a top ranked guy with 5.0's and as I'm sitting there listening to him I'm thinking why does he actually think that why does he think that what what is going on in his head that he thinks that he should be a 5.0

• 10:29Jocko Willink?

  And of course, I'm thinking to myself, this is somehow my fault. This has got to be my fault because I'm the leader and I have a guy. I have a guy that's concerned enough about his rankings. That he's in here talking to me. He actually set an appointment to come and talk to me about this. So obviously I had not done a good job at this point. Of explaining things to him and if I'm, if I'm, if he doesn't get it, obviously there's going to be more people. That. That think the same way, then you know, he's not the only one. When someone comes to you, the problem, they're not the only one. So that's what I'm thinking and I'm, I'm, I'm thinking that he's thinking he's a 5.0. That's what he's thinking. He's thinking he's a 5.0. And he's not. And.

• 11:14Jocko Willink?

  He thinks he should be, and then I'm trying to figure out, I'm thinking to myself, okay, how do I explain to him? Where he is missing the mark? How can I explain to him that he's not quite? A 5.0. Cause 5.0 is outstanding. And then the answer. Kind of jumped out at me. The answer was the evaluation form itself. That's, that's what it was. Because the evaluation form itself actually gives the definition of what a 5.0 sailor is. What a 5.0 leader is.

• 11:55Jocko Willink?

  And really, when you break it down, what a 5.0 human being is, the evaluation actually spells it out. In plain English. So I picked up the evaluation form that he had brought in and I started to read chunks of it to him. So the first little chunk that I read to, read to him. There's a section called professional knowledge. And, and if you are a 5.0 in professional knowledge, it gives you a list of what you are. And here's what it says, if you're a 5.0 in professional knowledge, this is what it says. Recognized expert. Sought out by all. For technical knowledge.

• 12:37Jocko Willink?

  Uses knowledge to solve complex technical problems. Meets advancement requirements early and with distinction.

• 12:49Jocko Willink?

  So, you know, I looked at him and said, okay, recognized expert. Are you a recognized expert? How often are you getting called by the East Coast or by the SEAL team to help them solve a problem? The answer was, he's not. He's a good, solid guy, really good instructor, but he's not a, he's not a recognized expert, and he knew it.

• 13:14Jocko Willink?

  And then I read the, the 3.0, which is a middle grade, like, hey, this is your average situation. I said, maybe this is you. I said, listen, strong working knowledge of rating, specialty, and job, reliably applies knowledge to accomplish tasks, meets advancement requirements on time. This is a solid human being, right? This is solid. That's a, that's a 3.0 right there. And again, as I'm reading to this, this guy, yeah, he had strong working knowledge, for sure. He was applying that knowledge to his job, for sure. He was doing that, so that's cool. That's 3.0.

• 13:53Jocko Willink?

  What about quality of work? Another section, quality of work. Here's 5.0 for quality of work. Needs no supervision.

• 14:01Jocko Willink?

  Always produces exceptional work. No rework required. Maximizes resources. So, needs no resources. Let's think about that. I mean, this guy was working in another department. He was definitely being managed. And then, always produces exceptional work. Again, this is as good, you can't get any better than exceptional.

• 14:28Jocko Willink?

  So, I said, is that you? Do you not need any supervision? And he knew, I mean, I know, I worked in the departments. I know what's going on. He's not gonna, he can't lie to me. And I said, how about this? Needs little supervision, produces quality work, few errors, uses resources efficiently. You know what that is? That's 3.0. I actually gave you a 4.0, somewhere in between those two. I'm actually being kind of generous. What do you think?

• 14:56Jocko Willink?

  How about military bearing and character? Well, let's see what that looks like. Here's what, here's what, here's what the definition for military bearing and character is. U.S. Navy 5.0 evaluation exemplary personal appearance. Model of conduct, conduct on and off duty. A leader in physical readiness exemplifies Navy Core Values, honor, courage, commitment.

• 15:26Jocko Willink?

  Now, this guy's sitting in my office. He's in sloppy PT gear. His hair's a little bit long and he's not, he's not one of these super stud SEALs. That's in awesome physical shape. He's kind of a guy that liked to party a bit and he was a hard working SEAL, a great guy. But I'm saying he wasn't exactly a model of conduct on and off duty. Think about what that means. A model of conduct.

• 15:48Jocko Willink?

  So that's 5.0. Then I said, listen, let me tell you what I tell them. Let me tell you what 3.0 is. Excellent personal appearance, excellent conduct. Conscientiously complies with regulations. Complies with physical readiness program. Lives up to Navy Core Values, honor, courage, commitment.

• 16:05Jocko Willink?

  That, that to me, you know, you're a pretty squared away guy, but how'd you do on that last PT test? Right? Cause you, you didn't knock it out of the park. I know that, right?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  So you, are you telling him these?

• 16:18Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I'm reading, I'm doing what we're doing right here. I'm straight up reading them to him. Cause, cause.

• 16:25Jocko Willink?

  It was, it's really obvious that these standards are very, very high.

• 16:32Jocko Willink?

  And you know, also here's the bottom of the barrel. Okay, this is 1.0. 1.0 for, for values. Or for military bearing and character. This is 1.0. Consistently unsatisfactory appearance, poor self-control, conduct resulting in disciplinary action, unable to meet one or more physical readiness requirements, fails to live up to one or more Navy Core Values, honor, courage, commitment. So, so this guy clearly is not a 1.0. That's a, that's a, you know, that's a, that's a bad sailor. But this guy's solid. He's in the middle. I think I had him with a 4.0. I said, are we good with a 4.0?

• 17:12Jocko Willink?

  Or are you going to tell me that you crushed, that you were the leader of the pack on the last PT test that we did?

• 17:19Jocko Willink?

  You know, you tell me, were you the, were you the 5.0? No, couldn't honestly say it. And by now, he kinda, he kinda got the message that he's no 1.0, but he definitely wasn't a 5.0 either. And, and clearly what I realized is he never actually

• 17:36Jocko Willink?

  read through what those standards were. And clearly that was my fault for not making sure that this guy and the rest of the people at my command understood what the grading criteria was. And I started to try and do that. And I started to realize that the, the grading criteria was actually solid. And it was a good guide to being a, a really good SEAL, a really good sailor, a really good person.

• 18:07Jocko Willink?

  And as you read through some of these 5.0 qualities, here's the one for command organizational climate slash equal opportunity. So if you're, this is your, if you're a 5-0 in this category, measurably contributes to the Navy's increased retention and reduced attrition objective. Proactive leader, exemplary mentor, involved in subordinates, personal development, leading to professional growth and sustained commitment. Initiates support programs for military, civilian and families to achieve exceptional command and organizational climate. The model of achievement develops unit cohesion by valuing differences as strengths. So let's think about that. That's, that's a massive, who's going to get 5-0 in that?

• 18:52Jocko Willink?

  In the SEAL teams, not too many people. Cause in the SEAL teams, who's initiating support programs? That means you're actively starting a program to help support, right? There's not a lot of guys that are going to hit 5.0 and that's the way it should be. Here's what 5.0 looks like for personal job accomplishment and initiative. Energetic self-starter. Completes tasks or qualifications early, far better than expected. So you're not just doing, you're doing it early and it's still even better than everyone else. Plans and prioritizes wisely and with exceptional foresight. Seeks extra responsibility and takes on the hardest jobs.

• 19:30Jocko Willink?

  That's 5.0.

• 19:32Jocko Willink?

  Here's the 5.0 for teamwork. Team builder inspires cooperation and progress. Focuses goals and techniques for teams. The best at accepting and offering team direction. That's a team player. That's teamwork. And here's how you get a 5.0 in leadership. Now, think about this. You think you're a good SEAL. You think you're a good sailor. And you think I'm a good leader, right? Here's what you have to do to get a 5.0. Inspiring motivator and trainer. Subordinates reach highest level of growth and development. So now it's not even about you anymore. This is about you being a leader and you, not just what you do, but what your subordinates, your subordinates have to reach the highest level of growth and development.

• 20:17Jocko Willink?

  It goes on. Superb organizer. Great foresight. Develops process improvements and efficiencies. Leadership achievements. Leadership achievement dramatically further command, mission and vision. So what you do as a leader dramatically furthers the mission.

• 20:36Jocko Willink?

  Perseveres through the toughest challenges and inspires others. Exceptional communicator. How many people do you know that are exceptional communicators? There's not a lot of people that are exceptional communicators. That's a hard thing. That's not only being born with some communication skills. It's actively working and honing those skills through your lifetime before someone tells you you're an exceptional communicator.

• 21:01Jocko Willink?

  Makes subordinate safety conscience. Maintains top safety record. Constantly improves the personal and professional lives of others. So this is barely even about you anymore. It's how well, how well does your team do? So you've got to be 100% squared away if you're going to get a 5.0 in leadership. That's just the way it is. And like I said, you're not just getting judged on your success, but on the success, not just of the mission, but of the actual individual people that work for you.

• 21:31Jocko Willink?

  And so this this granular look at these descriptions kind of changed this guy's perspective and now he actually saw what he was supposed to be doing and he actually knew what he was aiming at and he didn't know that before and you know whose fault it is that he didn't know that it's my fault because I'm the guy that's in charge and I thought everyone knew or I thought at least everyone was aiming as high as they possibly could at everything

• 22:03Jocko Willink?

  but that's actually naive it's naive for a couple reasons not only is not everyone aiming to be the best they can you know some people don't care about some things but sometimes people don't actually understand what it is that they're supposed to be aiming at they don't understand what the metric is how they're being measured

• 22:21Jocko Willink?

  and clearly you have to

• 22:26Jocko Willink?

  have something to aim at and if you don't have anything to aim at then you're never gonna get anywhere you're never gonna you're never gonna hit the target that you're not aiming at you have to aim at the target to hit it you have to know what you're trying to be or you won't be that and the Navy I think with this evaluation form does a decent job if you kind of can take a step back and one problem is with the with the Navy evaluation system and all the evaluation systems in the military is they're very administrative

• 22:58Jocko Willink?

  it's it turns into much more of a paperwork drill than it is an actual

• 23:04Jocko Willink?

  an actual attempt to make people improve themselves right it's there but people go I go to oh this is where I fell out cool I'm up for motion cool I'm mad they don't read it right they don't actually it's not it's not a true counseling of the objective isn't to really truly improve those people that's one of the problems with this with the with the counseling system inside the Navy and it happens in the other branches as well but but if you read that sheet and you kind of take a look at it then you realize okay there's some things that I can aim at now and the Navy does a decent job of that I'll tell you the Marine Corps does an even better job

• 23:43Jocko Willink?

  The United States Marine Corps evaluation system is more detailed and it's more descriptive and it's more complete. The Navy system, the whole Navy evaluation is two pages long. The Marine Corps, theirs is six pages long. And one thing that's interesting about the Marine Corps, you know, in the Navy one, they list, okay, you're a 1.0, this is what you're like as a 1.0. The Marine Corps doesn't even give descriptions for the low end of the spectrum. They don't even, they don't even exist. They're not going to waste time describing a loser Marine. They have a higher minimum standard, basically, but this is one thing that struck me. The first time

• 24:25Jocko Willink?

  I kind of noticed the Marine Corps evaluation system, because it's an administrative thing, so it's not like I would see it on a regular basis. When I was in Ramadi, I was in the Brigade Tactical Operations Center, and I was probably there for a meeting with the Brigade Commander or whatever, and was there for whatever reason. And one of the Marine officers was in there who I knew, and we were kind of talking. And he was filling out one of, an evaluation for one of his guys, and he was on the back page of his evaluation, and I was just, you know, being nosy, I guess, looking at, looking at what it was like, looking at what their system was like, comparing it to our system. And as I was looking at the form, on the last page, the page he was actually working

• 25:06Jocko Willink?

  on, there was a graphic representation of, of Marines and of how they rank Marines, and it kind of looked like a Christmas tree. So if you picture a Christmas tree, and the whole Christmas tree is made up of little eagle globe and anchors, which is the symbol of the Marine Corps. And so there's a bunch of little eagle globe and anchors, and they're all positioned on this piece of paper, and it looks like a Christmas tree. And so the bottom, actually the bottom of this graphic, the bottom of this Christmas tree is just an empty space. There's nothing there. And, and that line is represented. There's a little indicator that shows what that line represents. That line represents the unqualified

• 25:48Jocko Willink?

  Marine. So there should be no unqualified Marines in your unit. And then it goes up one level, and now you've just got one single Eagle Globe and Anchor, representing one Marine. And, and this, this is, it looks like the trunk of the Christmas tree. And that, that line is labeled, a qualified Marine. So now you've got one guy, you know, percentage wise, one person that is simply just a qualified Marine. He's qualified, but there's not, there shouldn't be that many of them. And then they go, now you picture a Christmas tree above the trunk. Now it's a big wide area. And that's where they go to this next level,

• 26:31Jocko Willink?

  which has the most, it's like the middle third of the Christmas tree. And that area, they label that area, one of the many highly qualified professionals who form the majority of this grade. So the biggest chunk of people is sort of in the middle third of this Christmas tree. And that's what it is. Hey, that's what most of, that's where most of the guys are. There's highly qualified people. They make up the most of this group that I'm evaluating. And there they are. And then above that third on this Christmas tree, is a, now the Christmas

• 27:13Jocko Willink?

  tree is getting smaller, right? So now we're getting into a narrow group. And this narrow group is labeled, and it's called, so if you're in this group, you're being labeled as one of the few exceptionally qualified Marines.

• 27:32Jocko Willink?

  And that, again, that's a much smaller number than that middle group. And then you get to the top of the Christmas tree. Where there is a single eagle globe and anchor representing the very best of this group. And it's up there alone.

• 27:50Jocko Willink?

  At the pinnacle of performance. And there's a label for this singular Marine at the top of his group.

• 28:02Jocko Willink?

  And the label says, "The Eminently Qualified Marine."

• 28:09Jocko Willink?

  And I remember when I read that.

• 28:13Jocko Willink?

  When I read those words, "The Eminently Qualified Marine."

• 28:19Jocko Willink?

  And I thought to myself,

• 28:23Jocko Willink?

  "That is the ultimate praise."

• 28:27Jocko Willink?

  And that's pretty much how the Marine Corps evaluation ends. And it ends in this epic way because it is,

• 28:37Jocko Willink?

  it is, and I,

• 28:40Jocko Willink?

  it's weird to say this, it's an epic document. It's an epic document. And I want to talk about this document today. And I want to start off by, by the way that the document itself starts off. So this is the Marine Corps Fitness Report. This is how they grade Marines. And it starts off with the Commandant's Guidance. So the first thing they get is guidance from the most senior Marine in the Marine Corps. And the Commandant's Guidance says, "The completed fitness report is the most important information component in manpower management. It is the primary means of evaluating a Marine's performance and is the Commandant's primary tool for the selection of personnel for promotion, augmentation, resident schooling command, and duty assignments.

• 29:24Jocko Willink?

  Therefore, the completion of this report is one of an officer's most critical responsibilities. Inherent in this duty is the commitment of each reporting senior and reviewing officer to ensure the integrity of the system by giving close attention to accurate marking and timely reporting.

• 29:44Jocko Willink?

  Every officer serves a role in the scrupulous maintenance of this evaluation system, ultimately important to both the individual and the Marine Corps."

• 29:56Jocko Willink?

  Inflationary markings only serve to dilute the actual value of each report.

• 30:03Jocko Willink?

  Reviewing officers will not concur with inflated reports. So out of the gate, we're getting put in check. Do not come here telling everyone they're great. That's not, that's not gonna fly. We're rejecting that outright from the start. Now we start the evaluation. Again, this is set up a little bit similar to the Navy. And they start breaking out what your performance is based on. The first thing that it's based on is mission accomplishment.

• 30:36Jocko Willink?

  And mission accomplishment, they break into two things. The first thing is performance. So here's what it says about performance of mission accomplishment, accomplishment. Results achieved during the reporting period. How well those duties inherent to a Marines billet plus all additional duties formally and informally assigned were carried out. Reflects the Marines aptitude, competence, and commitment to the unit's success above personal reward.

• 31:04Jocko Willink?

  Indicators are time and resource management, task prioritization, and tenacity to achieve positive ends consistently.

• 31:14Jocko Willink?

  So the low end, it says meets requirements of billet and additional duties. Aptitude, commitment, and competence meet expectations. Results maintain status quo. So that's, you're doing your job.

• 31:32Jocko Willink?

  And then if you're at the high end of the spectrum, results far surpass expectations. Recognizes and exploits new resources, creates opportunities. Emulated, sought after as an expert with influence beyond unit. Impact significant. Innovative approaches to problems produce significant gains in quality and efficiency.

• 31:58Jocko Willink?

  If you just take that single bullet and that's what you try and achieve, you're smoking. You're crushing. You, I wanna, you have someone like that working for you and you're in heaven because this guy's gonna make things happen.

• 32:14Jocko Willink?

  Next up proficiency demonstrates technical knowledge and practical skill in the execution of the Marines overall duties. Combines training, education and experience. Translates skills into actions which contribute to accomplishing tasks and missions. Imparts knowledge to others. Think about this one translates skills into actions. That's, that's kind of a big deal. How many people have skills, but they can't translate them into actions? Think about that's your life. Hey, you've got some skills, but you don't use them. You can't put them anywhere. You can't put them into effect. Here's the middle grade for proficiency demonstrates mastery of all required skills. So if you've mastered your skills, you're still just like in the middle.

• 32:57Jocko Willink?

  Expertise, education and experience consistently enhance mission accomplishment. Innovative troubleshooter and problem solver. Effectively imparts skills to subordinates. These are the kind of things where if you know that you're supposed to impart skills to your subordinates, you pay attention to it, you start doing it. But you might not recognize that that's part of your job, that's part of your life. Here's what it sounds like if you're an expert. True expert in field. Knowledge and skills impact far beyond those of peers. Translates broad-based education and experience into forward-thinking, innovative actions. Makes immeasurable impact on mission accomplishment.

• 33:39Jocko Willink?

  Peerless teacher selflessly imparts expertise to subordinates, peers and seniors. Think about that. That is a high bar. That is a high bar. You could work, you could work diligently every single day and fall short of that.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:57Jocko Willink?

  But let me tell you, it's important that you know that you should be working towards it. Next section. Individual character. Isn't that legit when you're going to grade someone on their character?

• 34:14Jocko Willink?

  This is outstanding.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:15Jocko Willink?

  This is outstanding. How many people are not thinking about what their character is? How many people are not actively minding the way that their actions reflect their character?

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:26Jocko Willink?

  Happens all the time.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:28Jocko Willink?

  If we were thinking about if you knew you're getting graded on it, maybe you wouldn't take those, those base actions.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, kind of goes along with like how you said that one time, like imagine someone's videotaping you, you know, and they're gonna do the playback. It's like, man, if you go, if you have that in the back of your mind, yeah, you act great.

• 34:44Jocko Willink?

  That's the first step, though.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:46Jocko Willink?

  Because the actual, that's the first step because you might think, well, I'm being videoed, but this is what I'm expected to do. So you might be doing something that's not correct.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 34:54Jocko Willink?

  You might be off chart. You might be aiming at the wrong thing. Hey, I'm acting like a tough guy. I want everyone to know that I'm tough. You realize, oh, that's actually stupid.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 35:04Jocko Willink?

  So you can be, you can have in your mind that I'm gonna keep my character, but you're wrong. Because you might be aiming at the wrong thing.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:11Jocko Willink?

  So this gives you some pretty specific things to aim at.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:16Jocko Willink?

  Topic number one, cour- courage. Moral or physical strength to overcome danger, fear, difficulty, or anxiety. Personal acceptance of responsibility and accountability. Placing conscience over competing interests regardless of consequences.

• 35:35Jocko Willink?

  Conscious overriding decision to risk bodily harm or death to accomplish the mission or save others. The will to persevere despite uncertainty.

• 35:46Jocko Willink?

  What if you're thinking about the fact that you're getting graded on your will to persevere despite uncertainty? You think about that every day. You don't know what your future holds, but you're gonna persevere regardless. Think if you're getting graded on that every day.

• 36:04Jocko Willink?

  Here's what the bottom end of the spectrum is. Demonstrates inner strength. So at the minimum, you're demonstrating inner strength. And acceptance of responsibility. Commensurate with the scope of duties and experience, willing to face moral or physical danger in pursuit of mission accomplishment. So even at the low end of the spectrum, you're still willing to face danger. Moral or physical challenges.

• 36:30Jocko Willink?

  Here's the middle guided by conscience in all actions proven ability proven ability to overcome danger fear difficulty or anxiety exhibits bravery in the face of adversity uncertainty not deterred by moral difficult situations morally difficult situations or hazardous responsibilities.

• 36:50Jocko Willink?

  How often are people deterred by difficult situations?

• 36:56Jocko Willink?

  Daily morally difficult situations.

• 37:02Jocko Willink?

  Here's at the top, the top of the spectrum for courage uncommon bravery and capacity to overcome obstacles and inspire others in the face of moral dilemma or life threatening danger. Now, it's not even just about you. You have to actually take it to a level where you're inspiring others demonstrated under the most adverse conditions selfless.

• 37:27Jocko Willink?

  Always places conscience over competing interests regardless of physical or personal consequences.

• 37:34Jocko Willink?

  That's that competition we talked about the competition between, oh, I'm going to take care of myself and I'm going to take care of the team. I'm going to take care of the mission between what's doing what's right to do instead of what is easy to do.

• 37:48Jocko Willink?

  The next section that you get graded on your individual character is effectiveness under stress.

• 37:57Jocko Willink?

  This is just outstanding because there's not, think about this, you don't even see this in, in business. I don't see this in when people evaluate each other in the business world, but there's stress in business world is a different kind of stress, but it's stress. Here's effectiveness under stress. Here's what you're doing, thinking, functioning and leading effectively under conditions of physical and or mental pressure, maintaining composure appropriate for the situation while displaying steady purpose of action, enabling one to inspire others while continuing to lead under adverse conditions. Physical and emotional strength, resilience and endurance are elements.

• 38:35Jocko Willink?

  Low end of the spectrum. Exhibits discipline and stability under pressure. Judgment and effective problem solving skills are evident. It's low end of the spectrum, by the way. How many people do you think, do you know, that don't exhibit any discipline or stability under pressure? Right? There's all kinds of people. There's all kinds of people. And we know, when's the last time you, you, you didn't do a good job under pressure?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Probably this morning.

• 39:03Jocko Willink?

  It happens, right?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully.

• 39:05Jocko Willink?

  Right? It happens. Especially when you're not thinking about it. Especially when you're not aimed at the correct response to pressure.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:13Jocko Willink?

  Especially when you haven't put a standard in your mind. Remember when you used to kind of freak out in jujitsu when you got claustrophobic, right?

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 39:23Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 39:24Jocko Willink?

  You'd get in a position.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Yes, sir, yeah.

• 39:26Jocko Willink?

  Usually side control. Right? You didn't like that.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:30Jocko Willink?

  The pressure on the neck, the, the pressure on the chest.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  There were more circumstances surrounding those, you know, scenarios.

• 39:36Jocko Willink?

  Additional mental and moral problems.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would have to, yeah, okay, okay. Yes, I do remember that, yeah.

• 39:42Jocko Willink?

  At some point, you said to yourself, alright, I cannot act that way anymore.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:47Jocko Willink?

  You made a, you set a bar for yourself.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 39:50Jocko Willink?

  That's the beginning of solving the problem.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Jocko Willink?

  That's what I, I love about this. It's actually setting a bar. Of when you're under stress, this is how you gotta act.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:02Jocko Willink?

  If you're, if you're a little above average. For effectiveness under stress, here's where you're at. Consistently demonstrates maturity, mental agility and willpower during periods of adversity. Provides order to chaos through the application of intuition, problem solving skills and leadership. Composure reassures other. Imagine you're on a team and this is the average guy. This is just so impressive. But my point is, unless you tell your guys what average is, they won't know it.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:38Jocko Willink?

  They don't understand it.

• 40:41Jocko Willink?

  Here's the high end. So this is when you look at your troops and you say, this is what I want you to do. When we come under massive amounts of stress, here's the model I want you to try and perform as. Demonstrates seldom matched presence of mind under the most demanding circumstances. Stabilizes any situation through the resolute and timely application of direction, focus, and personal presence. Now, when I was doing this, I was actually only going to read the high end when I was thinking about this. But then I realized each one of these builds. And that person at the high end already has the other two, but there's other elements in there that that aren't mentioned in the high end.

• 41:22Jocko Willink?

  So you got to mention me and you assume when someone's on the high end, they got those, obviously they got the lower end things wrapped up. So you got to combine all these three together, the low grade, the middle grade and the high grade.

• 41:36Jocko Willink?

  We want people to show initiative. Talk about this all the time. This is the essence of decentralized command is that people show initiative. Here's what they say about initiative. Action in the absence of specific direction.

• 41:48Jocko Willink?

  Seeing what needs to be done and acting without prompting.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  So I'm listening to all of all these, right? This whole thing. And at first I was like, oh, that's cool. That's how the Navy kind of evaluates people. And sure, you're going to talk about the Marines and stuff. But maybe like the second little part you started reading, I just started applying it to myself.

• 42:10Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Like my life, you know, like, okay, so you know, we're all part of like, if you have a family, if you're the dad or something, right? Or you're whatever, if you're in a family unit, you're part of a team right there. And you know, your goals change from time to time, but you sort of know the goals. So I'm like thinking in my mind, every little like element that you're talking about, I'm like, okay, let me evaluate myself.

• 42:34Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  With this, like how good, and you're right, man. So a lot of, a lot of times like, okay, so performing under, um, under stress, right? Like there's all these little things. You're going to the beach and you're trying to make it on, you know.

• 42:50Jocko Willink?

  Hey, we're trying to make it to the beach. We have a high stress level.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. The kids need their water and they need their change of clothes. It might get cold. They need a jacket and all this stuff. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking, you know, daylight, you know, all this stuff. You don't want to miss sunset, all this stuff. So how are you gonna perform under that stress, you know, and I get it.

• 43:11Jocko Willink?

  Well, the funny thing is you're bringing up this, you're bringing up this, and I'm actually completely making fun of you for bringing up that stress. How often are you at a public place and you see a family and they're running late or whatever, and you see a leader of the family, mother or father, freaking out and losing their composure over the stress that we're actually joking about? You're a little bit serious, I'm joking about it, but still. You see people lose their minds because of dumb things.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:41Jocko Willink?

  And there's a little bit of stress in their world and they drop the ball, they freak out.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:46Jocko Willink?

  So my question is, do those people, has anyone ever sat them down and explained to them what the standard is?

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 43:53Jocko Willink?

  And that's my point here.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:55Jocko Willink?

  A lot of times, people don't even recognize, they don't even know, they don't even understand what, what the eminently qualified human being, how they're going to act in these situations.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, they totally, totally, exactly, 100% right there. So like, okay, so you know how you ever have a guy who like loses his temper and then like you say, hey, you kind of lost it there, and then he goes back to how he felt, like almost like the way he felt justified losing his temper, right? So you just understand, here's the thing, Brad, we know, we know you felt like that. You totally demonstrated, so you don't have to explain that, but yeah, you were feeling this and you behaved a certain way. But if that guy knew that he was being evaluated on his behavior, regardless of how he feels, right, he'd be aiming how you put it.

• 44:43Jocko Willink?

  That's it, that's the key part. It's not, it's not just the grading part. It's you have to know what the standard is, because that guy might not even understand, hey, if I lose my temper, it's, I think it was JP, JP really took it to heart.

• 45:03Jocko Willink?

  When he heard me say, losing your temper is a weakness.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:06Jocko Willink?

  Before that, he just didn't, you know, because you see other people in your life, you see other team guys, you see your dad, you see your uncle, and they fly off the handle and you almost have a respect for it, right? You definitely respect your, when your dad loses your temper, you kind of think, wow, that's powerful. How can I have some of that power? Well, you just do that, right? So it's a learned mechanism. And then eventually you realize, or someone tells you, hey, when you lose your temper, you're not in control. Matter of fact, you're not in control at all. And whatever made you lose your temper is controlling you. And losing your temper is, is a weakness. And so that's the big difference. It's not just, hey, you're being graded, you're being watched, which is definitely a great mindset to have, but you have to understand what the parameters are that you're being measured by, that you're being graded on.

• 45:51Jocko Willink?

  And that's where this comes into play. The next section I just started with initiative.

• 45:59Jocko Willink?

  And we want subordinates to take initiative, but we want everyone to take initiative, right? Your kids, you want your kids to take initiative. You want people in your, you want everyone to take initiative. I used to say to the, the young SEAL platoon commanders and tasking commanders, I would say, imagine if everyone of your, every one of your fire team leaders just was doing something smart. They just took initiative and made it happen. Your job becomes so easy because you don't have to control everything. Everyone's just making things happen. That's initiative. So here's what it says about initiative. Action in the absence of specific direction. Seeing what needs to be done and acting without prompting. The instinct to begin a task and follow through energetically on one's own accord.

• 46:42Jocko Willink?

  Being creative, proactive, and decisive. Transforming opportunity into action. So that's what initiative. If you're on the low end, you demonstrate willingness to take action in the absence of, absence of specific direction. Acts commensurate with grade, training, and experience. That's what we expect of you. Little bit, little bit better. In the middle, self motivated and action oriented. Foresight and energy consistently transform opportunity into action, develops and pursues creative initiative solutions, or sorry, innovative solutions. Acts without prompting, self-starter. That's what we want. And then here we go, the high end.

• 47:26Jocko Willink?

  Highly motivated and proactive. Displays exceptional awareness of surroundings and environment. Uncanny ability to anticipate mission requirements and quickly formulate original, far-reaching solutions. Always takes decisive, effective action. With definitions like that, it's no wonder there's only one Marine at the top of that Christmas tree. Cause that is a squared away individual right there.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Far reaching.

• 47:53Jocko Willink?

  You know what's crazy about this? Having put so many people through training myself, even though there's only one allotted space up there, there are so many people that are capable of this kind of behavior. It's way more than 1%. It's way more than 10%. If you have people that understand what the parameters are and really aim toward them, you can get a lot closer than most people would think.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, I obviously I don't know, but it seems like what you're talking about. Like a lot of people just don't know, you know, they don't know the standard and that, you know.

• 48:30Jocko Willink?

  They don't know.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:31Jocko Willink?

  They don't know. It's not been made clear to them. The next section. Leadership. And this is broken into multiple sections, obviously, because leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. So this is their biggest section. Leadership, section number one, leading subordinates. The inseparable relationship between leader and led. The application of leadership principles to provide direction and motivate subordinates. Using authority, persuasion and personality to influence subordinates to accomplish assigned tasks. Sustaining motivation and morale while maximizing subordinate's performance. So there you go. That's what you're going to do as a leader. Low end. Engaged.

• 49:14Jocko Willink?

  Provides instructions and directs execution. Seeks to accomplish mission in ways that sustain motivation and morale. Actions contribute to unit effectiveness. Cool. So you're acceptable. Middle ground. Achieves a highly effective balance between direction and delegation. We're talking a little dichotomy.

• 49:39Jocko Willink?

  Effectively tasks subordinates and clearly delineates standards expected. Enhances performance through constructive supervision. Fosters motivation and enhances morale. Builds and sustains teams that successfully meet mission requirements. Encourages initiative and candor among subordinates. So you can see that the low end, you're kind of just telling people what to do a little bit, right?

• 50:06Jocko Willink?

  Now you're starting to ask for feedback. You're starting to build that bond. Here's the high end.

• 50:15Jocko Willink?

  Number one thing for the high end promotes creativity and energy among subordinates by striking into the ideal balance of direction and delegation. Achieves highest levels of performance from subordinates by encouraging individual initiative. That's decentralized command. I'm going to let you guys run and that's going to maximize performance. This is an incredible term. Engenders willing subordination, loyalty and trust that allows subordinates to overcome their perceived limitations. Willing subordination when your team actually wants to follow you.

• 50:56Jocko Willink?

  Personal leadership fosters highest level of motivation and morale, ensuring mission accomplishment even in the most difficult circumstances.

• 51:06Jocko Willink?

  Next section, developing subordinates. Commitment to train, educate and challenge all Marines regardless of race, religion, ethnic background or gender. Mentorship cultivating professional and personal development of subordinates. Developing team players in esprit de corps. Ability to combine teaching and coaching. Creating an atmosphere tolerant of mistakes in the course of learning. You don't hear, you don't think about that very often in the Marine Corps. Hey, we're tolerant of mistakes. That's how you learn. Low end of the spectrum maintains an environment that allows personal and professional development. Ensures subordinates participate in all mandated development programs.

• 51:48Jocko Willink?

  Middle ground develops and institutes innovative programs. So you're proactively trying to bring up and raise your subordinates, make them better. To include PMA, which is professional military education. That emphasize personal and professional development of subordinates. Challenges subordinates to exceed their perceived potential, thereby enhancing unit morale and effectiveness. Creates an environment where all Marines are confident to learn through trial and error. As a mentor prepares subordinates for increased responsibilities and duties.

• 52:22Jocko Willink?

  By the way, this is the number two. Item under leadership. The first one is leading. The second one is developing your subordinates. Here's the top end of the spectrum. Widely recognized and emulated as a teacher, coach, and leader. Any Marine would desire to serve with this Marine because they know they will grow personally and professionally. Subordinate and unit performance far surpasses expected results due to mentorship and team building talents. Attitude toward subordinate development is infectious extending beyond the unit.

• 53:02Jocko Willink?

  That's bold. Now you are training your people so well that other people in other units are starting to train their people. Think about that impact right there. That's how you develop. You develop your subordinate so much that some other leader in a different company, in a different platoon, in a different battalion says, "We're going to start following that program. I'm going to start stepping it up."

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:26Jocko Willink?

  That's leadership right there.

• 53:31Jocko Willink?

  Section number three, setting the example. The most visible facet of leadership, how well a Marine serves as a role model for all others. Personal action demonstrates the highest standards of conduct, ethical behavior, fitness and appearance. Bearing demeanor and self-discipline are elements.

• 53:52Jocko Willink?

  Low end.

• 53:55Jocko Willink?

  Maintains Marine Corps standards for appearance, weight, and uniform wear. Sustains required level of physical fitness, adheres to the tenets of the Marine Corps values. Fine, you're accepted. Middle grade. Personal conduct on and off duty reflects highest Marine Corps standards of integrity, bearing, and appearance. Character is exceptional. Actively seeks self-improvement in wide-ranging areas. Dedication to duty and professional example encourage others' self-improvement efforts. That's the middle grade. In the middle grade, you reflect the highest Marine Corps standards of integrity, bearing, and appearance. You know what that means?

• 54:41Jocko Willink?

  That means 24 hours a day, you're in the game. That's what that means. It means you're actively seeking self-improvement in wide-ranging areas. You're trying to get better everywhere. That's middle ground, by the way. High ground. Model Marine. Frequently emulated. Exemplary conduct, behavior, and actions are tone-setting. An inspiration to subordinates, peers, and seniors. Remarkable dedication to improving self and others. What are you trying to do to get better?

• 55:25Jocko Willink?

  I mean, I say that, said that on this podcast since day one. We're trying to get better. What are you doing, actually? What's the activity? Because you know, another word you hear a lot in this is action, action, action. Words into action, ideas into actions, skills into action. I was going back and forth with a guy that I did some work with for Echelon Front. And I worked with him quite a few years ago overseas. And we still text back and forth from time to time. And I said, hey, because he was telling me some of the notes he had taken. And I said, send me some of the notes. One of the notes that he, the first note he sent me was, "You can't think things better."

• 56:16Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's, it's a solid piece of advice. Cause he's one of these guys that, that was a thinker, right? A big thinker. And, and I'm all about thinking, you know? Let's, let's develop our brain. Let's develop our, our mind power. Let's think about things. Let's be thoughtful, that's fine. But you can't think things better. They're not going to get better unless you actually apply the skills. Skills into action, thoughts into action.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  Next, ensuring well-being of subordinates.

• 56:54Jocko Willink?

  Genuine interest in the well-being of Marines enhances subordinates' ability to concentrate, focus on mission accomplishment. Concern for family readiness is inherent. The importance placed on welfare of subordinates is based on the belief that Marines take care of their own.

• 57:14Jocko Willink?

  Low end of the spectrum deals confidently with issues pertinent to subordinate welfare and recognizes suitable courses of action that support subordinates' well-being. Applies available resources allowing subordinates to effectively concentrate on the mission. At a minimum, you're absolutely taking care of your people. Middle grade instills and/or reinforces a sense of responsibility among junior Marines for themselves and their subordinates. Actively fosters the development of and uses support systems for subordinates which improve their ability to contribute to unit mission accomplishment. Efforts to enhance subordinate welfare improve the unit's ability to accomplish their mission. People don't think about that fact.

• 57:56Jocko Willink?

  The, the people that are actually accomplishing the mission are people. If those people aren't ready to perform because you've neglected them, you're not going to be able to accomplish the mission.

• 58:08Jocko Willink?

  High grade noticeably enhances subordinate's well-being resulting in measurable increase in unit effectiveness maximizes unit and base resources to provide subordinates with the best support available proactive approach serves to energize unit members to take care of their own thereby correcting potential problems before they can hinder subordinate's effectiveness widely recognized for techniques and policies that produce results and build morale builds strong family atmosphere puts motto mission first Marines always into action

• 58:46Jocko Willink?

  boom

• 58:49Jocko Willink?

  last section for leadership

• 58:54Jocko Willink?

  communication skills

• 58:57Jocko Willink?

  the efficient transmission and receipt of thoughts and ideas that enable and enhance leadership equal importance given to listening speaking writing and critical reading skills interactive allowing one to perceive problems and situations provide concise guidance and express complex ideas in a form easily understood by everyone allows subordinates to ask questions raise issues and concerns and venture opinions contributes to a leader's ability to motivate as well as counsel

• 59:37Jocko Willink?

  minimum

• 59:39Jocko Willink?

  skilled in receiving and conveying information communicates effectively in performance of duties that's the minimum

• 59:49Jocko Willink?

  above average middle grade clearly articulates thoughts and ideas verbally and in writing let's think about that

• 1:00:01Jocko Willink?

  middle ground do you know how hard it is for people to clearly articulate thoughts and ideas verbally and in writing it is a skill you need to work on all the time by the way this gets you a middle grade here

• 1:00:21Jocko Willink?

  communication in all forms is accurate intelligent concise and timely

• 1:00:30Jocko Willink?

  Those standards: accurate, intelligent, concise, and timely.

• 1:00:36Jocko Willink?

  Communicates with clarity and verve, ensuring understanding of intent or purpose, encourages and considers the contributions of others.

• 1:00:48Jocko Willink?

  High grade, here we go. Highly developed facility in verbal communication. Adept in composing written documents of the highest quality. Combines presence and verbal skills which engender confidence and achieve understanding irrespective of setting, situation, or size of group addressed.

• 1:01:13Jocko Willink?

  Displays an intuitive sense of when and how to listen.

• 1:01:21Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:01:24Jocko Willink?

  Read, write, speak, listen, and do it all the time. If you're in a leadership position or you want to be in one.

• 1:01:33Jocko Willink?

  The reading part, people ask me what I learned in college.

• 1:01:38Jocko Willink?

  One of the most important things that I learned in college was, I was an English major. This is why I was an English major, by the way. Because I recognized when I was at a SEAL team, as a young officer, that one of the most important things I was going to be dealing with was communicating with other humans. And I needed to have good command of the English language and of reading and of writing the English language. But when I had to decipher Shakespeare, and I took a lot of Shakespeare, and you realize that you don't know what words mean, and you realize that you don't understand the sentence construction, and what you realize is that you have to break them down and go through them and figure it out.

• 1:02:19Jocko Willink?

  So when I would get the rules of engagement from up the chain of command five years later, and I didn't understand them, because they were using words I didn't know, I said, okay, what I need to do is look these up, read it, find out some substitute words, make sense of it, look up the definition of what they're specifically talking about, and go from there. Because when you first, if you just open up Shakespeare and you don't understand something, what do you do? You say it's stupid. When somebody writes the rules of engagement and there's words in there that you don't understand, if you don't understand how to parse things apart and look up definitions and can't be humble enough to recognize that there's some things that you don't know, well, then all you do is go, oh, this is stupid.

• 1:02:59Jocko Willink?

  Check. Communications.

• 1:03:06Jocko Willink?

  The next thing. No one really probably thinks that this is going to be in here for the Marine Corps. The next section you're getting graded on as a Marine is intellect and wisdom.

• 1:03:21Jocko Willink?

  There are things to people in the military is a bunch of knuckle draggers.

• 1:03:25Jocko Willink?

  Think it's all about brawn. But there you go. Intellect and wisdom.

• 1:03:34Jocko Willink?

  Professional Military Education, PME. Committed to intellectual growth in ways beneficial to the Marine Corps. Increases breadth and depth of warfighting and leadership aptitude. Resources include resident schools, professional qualifications and certification processes, non-resident and other extension courses, civilian educational institutional coursework, a personal reading program that includes but is not limited to selections from the Commandant's reading list. Participation in discussion groups and military societies and involvement in learning through new technologies.

• 1:04:15Jocko Willink?

  You gotta get in the game right there. Gotta get educated. Here's low end. Maintains currency and required military skills and related developments. Has completed or is enrolled in appropriate level of PME for grade and level of experience. Recognizes and understands new and creative approaches to service issues. Remains abreast of contemporary concepts and issues.

• 1:04:42Jocko Willink?

  Middle grade PME outlook expands beyond MOS and required education. So you're not even worried about your own job. You've got that covered. Now you're going outside of what your job is. Develops and follows a comprehensive personal program which includes broadened professional reading and/or academic coursework, advances new concepts and ideas.

• 1:05:02Jocko Willink?

  And here's your high end. Dedicated to lifelong learning. As a result of active and continuous efforts widely recognized as an intellectual leader in professionally related topics. Makes time for study and takes advantage of all resources and programs. Introduces new and creative approaches to service issues. Engages in a broad spectrum of forums and dialogues. So this is never gonna stop. You gotta keep feeding your brain. The next thing you're getting graded on intellect and wisdom. Decision making ability.

• 1:05:44Jocko Willink?

  Viable and timely problem solution. Contributing elements are judgment and decisiveness. Decisions reflect the balance between an optimal solution and a satisfactory workable solution that generates tempo. So there's a good dichotomy for you. Optimal decision on one side. Workable decision that can keep you moving on the other side. You gotta balance that dichotomy. Decisions are made within the context of the commander's established intent and the goal of mission accomplishment. So of course, you're trying to support the commander's intent. Anticipation, mental agility, intuition, and success are inherent. This is not the first time they brought up intuition in here. How do you develop intuition?

• 1:06:29Jocko Willink?

  Experience, wisdom, reading. Low end. Low end makes sound decisions leading to mission accomplishment. That's the minimum. The minimum is to make sound decisions. Actively collects and evaluates information and weighs alternatives to achieve timely results. Competently approaches problems. Accepts responsibility for outcomes. Middle grade demonstrates mental agility.

• 1:07:00Jocko Willink?

  Effectively prioritizes and solves multiple complex problems. This is prioritize and execute.

• 1:07:07Jocko Willink?

  Analytical abilities enhanced by experience, education, and intuition. Anticipates problems and implements viable long-term solutions. Solutions steadfast, willing to make difficult decisions. That's a, that's a high bar for middle grade. High grade. Widely recognized and sought after to resolve the most critical, complex problems. Seldom matched analytical and intuitive abilities. Accurately foresees unexpected problems and arrives at well timed decisions despite fog and friction.

• 1:07:50Jocko Willink?

  Completely confident approach to all problems. Masterfully strikes a balance between the desire for perfect knowledge and greater tempo.

• 1:08:05Jocko Willink?

  Widely recognized.

• 1:08:09Jocko Willink?

  To solve problems. This one though, this little line here. Accurately foresees unexpected problems and arrives at well timed decisions despite fog and friction. Has a big ask right there. You gotta be in the game. You gotta be in the game to get to that level.

• 1:08:28Jocko Willink?

  Last thing you're getting graded on, on for intellect and wisdom is judgment.

• 1:08:33Jocko Willink?

  The discretionary aspect of decision making draws on core values, knowledge, and personal experience to make wise choices. Comprehends the consequences of contemplated courses of action. Minimum grade. Majority of judgments are measured, circumspect, relevant, and correct. Minimum. Middle grade. Decisions are constant, are consistent and uniformly correct, tempered by consideration of their consequences. Able to identify, isolate, and assess relevant factors in the decision making process. Opinion sought by others. Subordinates personally, personal interest in favor of impartiality.

• 1:09:21Jocko Willink?

  And the high end, decisions reflect exceptional, exceptional insight and wisdom beyond this Marine's experience. Counsel sought by all, often an arbiter. Consistent, superior judgment inspires the confidence of seniors.

• 1:09:42Jocko Willink?

  So that's how you get graded on intellect and wisdom. And actually, the last thing that they grade you on is they actually grade you on how well you evaluate your other Marines. The extent to which this officer, serving as a reported official, conducted or required others to conduct accurate, uninflated, and timely evaluations. This is the last thing you get graded on.

• 1:10:08Jocko Willink?

  And they go through, you know, the low end is like you did a good job. The high end is you do an outstanding job, but they're grading you on how well you grade. And then you get to the last page,

• 1:10:21Jocko Willink?

  which where this is where you have the Christmas tree, the eagle globe and anchor Christmas tree. Comparative assessment, provide a comparative assessment of potential by placing an X in the appropriate box and marking the comparison. Consider all the Marines of this grade, whose professional abilities are known to you personally.

• 1:10:42Jocko Willink?

  And then you go through that tree, the unqualified, unsatisfactory, a qualified Marine, one of the many highly qualified professionals who form the majority of this grade, one of the few exceptionally qualified Marines. And then you get to the top, the singular Marine at the top, who is the eminently qualified Marine.

• 1:11:07Jocko Willink?

  The eminently qualified Marine and

• 1:11:13Jocko Willink?

  that's what I think makes this,

• 1:11:17Jocko Willink?

  makes this interesting is to, to consider that statement, eminently qualified.

• 1:11:28Jocko Willink?

  And think about where you're at.

• 1:11:35Jocko Willink?

  And you're not at the top, I'm not at the top, none of us are at the top, who can be? But what are we striving to be?

• 1:11:47Jocko Willink?

  What are we striving to be? Are we striving to be the most eminently qualified human being that we can be? Do you even know what that means? Do you even have those thoughts in your head?

• 1:12:08Jocko Willink?

  I'm guessing you don't, I barely do. I know I've had vague thoughts. I know I had definitions that floated around in my head of what I was trying to be, what I'm trying to be today. But why aren't those solid? Why aren't they? I was, I was thinking about this, I was talking to Dave Burke. Good deal, Dave? Yeah. Good deal, Dave. And I was like, hey, we need to build this. Basically, an evaluation system for humans.

• 1:12:47Jocko Willink?

  To become eminently qualified as a human, what does that look like? Not only to grave yourself, but to actually know what you are trying to be. So, Dave and I'll work on that, so stand by to get some. And until, until we do get that out, then, think about, think about, are there areas that you know what the goal is, that you're walking around thinking that you deserve a 5.0?

• 1:13:31Jocko Willink?

  But you really actually, you really actually deserve it too. I know I do that. Yes. Right? Yes. I'm, I'm thinking I'm good. I'm walking around. I'm thinking I'm running everything right. I'm thinking I'm, I'm thinking I come correct.

• 1:13:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yes. But the reality is I don't. Yeah. And, and the reality is you have that little moving goalpost in your head. You move it around a little bit, right? You give yourself a little bit more slack one day, then you tighten it up because you're feeling good the next day, then you slack it off a little bit more. But as far as you're concerned, that's a 5.0 right there. You're in there.

• 1:14:06Jocko Willink?

  And the reality is,

• 1:14:09Jocko Willink?

  I don't measure up the way I should be measuring up on a daily basis. On an hourly basis. Who's grading me?

• 1:14:21Jocko Willink?

  Who's lying to me? You know who is? Me. Yeah. Me, but until we clarify what the aim is, what the goal is, and what those standards are, how am I supposed to hold myself accountable to those standards when they don't even exist? So I'm going to make them exist. Yeah. I'm going to put them in, I'm going to put them on paper. We're going to come up with that eminently qualified human being, what that looks like. Cause we all got, all got ideas floating around up there. Yeah. I'm going to bring it. Bring it. I'm going to apply that. Put it into action. Put it into action, right? Are we doing everything that we could be doing, everything that we should be doing? Are we cutting corners? Are we slacking off?

• 1:15:03Jocko Willink?

  Are we giving ourselves a 5.0 when we should be at best cracking a 2?

• 1:15:10Jocko Willink?

  Daily. How much are we leaving on the table every day? That's a question for you. Right? How, how much are we leaving on the table? How much are you saying, ah, you know what? I can just leave that there. It's fine.

• 1:15:23Jocko Willink?

  How much, how many things just do you accept as collateral damage? Like something goes wrong, like one thing goes wrong, and so there's just collateral damage. Other things are just gonna fall by the way, and you're good with it. Yeah. You're good with it.

• 1:15:38Jocko Willink?

  Something, you, you, you know, I hurt my knee, oh cool, guess what, I'm gonna eat a donut. Yeah. Right? Is that where we're at? Yeah. Is that where we're at? Or is there collateral damage? Oh, work was hard, therefore I'm gonna, you know, treat my family, not gonna, not gonna have a good family quality time tonight. Collateral damage, cuz they, what do you expect from me? Yeah.

• 1:16:01Jocko Willink?

  Right? Where is the collateral damage? Why are we allowing this collateral damage? Well, part of the reason I'm telling you that we allow this collateral damage is cuz we're not effectively grading ourselves. And even worse than that, we don't even know what standard we're trying to achieve. No one's even told us the minimum standard. Oh, okay, so why is your life going marginal right now? Why are you doing okay? Why am I doing okay right now? Well, it's because I have some vague idea. I have, I, I, I kind of know I'm heading in the right general direction. That's not good enough to get

• 1:16:36Jocko Willink?

  maximum. It's not good enough to be eminently qualified. It does, it doesn't work. You have to step it up.

• 1:16:47Jocko Willink?

  You have to, you have to have the unmitigated daily discipline in all things. And that's hard. It's hard for one day, never mind every single day.

• 1:17:02Jocko Willink?

  So, I'm gonna make this evaluation. Dave and I are gonna make it. I'll get it out to y'all. And until then, and I'll try and get it turned around as quick as possible, at least some kind of a,

• 1:17:15Jocko Willink?

  what is it called? An early version, a beta test. Sure. Is that what it's called? Uh, sure, I think. No. That's a technology. Right, right, right, right. Beta. Yeah, sure. Beta test. We'll get a beta test. We'll try and get something out there quick. And until then, start looking at yourself. Yeah, as usual, your strengths, your weaknesses. And start trying to see where you can improve.

• 1:17:39Jocko Willink?

  Start moving towards the goal of becoming the eminently qualified human being.

• 1:17:49Jocko Willink?

  Where we're at.

• 1:17:51Jocko Willink?

  And I think that is all I've got for tonight. So Echo Charles, what do you got?

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Well, I got my thoughts.

• 1:18:00Jocko Willink?

  I know, I know, we're trying to step up.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, you got thoughts?

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. So you, and you actually mentioned it in like right there at the end there where all these little eval, oh, not little, but all these evaluations are like, you know, you do this consistently and all this stuff. It's, so there's two kinds of parts to that. When I was thinking, you, you have to do all these good things, right? To be the minimum or to be the, you know, you, you can't even really be in the group if you're not in the minimum, right? But you gotta do those things every day. Like you have to essentially be known for these things.

• 1:18:33Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  So, so how we get jammed up, I think when we, when we are conscious of like, how good am I doing in XYZ area of my life or whatever? And if it's something that you're working on, a lot of times we don't get the accurate evaluation to ourselves because we'll do, we'll do it really good one day. And we'll do it really good two days. And I'm like, dang, I'm pretty good at this. So I'm going to go ahead and give myself like a four or whatever. But meanwhile, you only did it twice. Meanwhile, you know, in the whole week you did it twice. You're so happy because it's this big change because you usually do it zero times.

• 1:19:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  So you're like, hey, I got this.

• 1:19:05Jocko Willink?

  You, you, your minimum bar was set so low that you think you're crushing it.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah. Two times?

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Cause in your, cause in your mind, you kinda are comparatively speaking.

• 1:19:13Jocko Willink?

  Comparatively you are.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  The thing is like, if you have a standard and stuff, then you can act more accurately. But we don't have standards. So in your mind, it feels like, oh, I got this. I got it. I got it. I'm, I'm, I'm a four now. You know, I used to be a one, I'm a four now. So meanwhile, you're not a four, you're actually still a one.

• 1:19:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:19:29Jocko Willink?

  Completely.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Jocko Willink?

  But you think you're, and there's also, there's also this, there's also, and I, I talked to Dave about this a little bit. There's a, there's a short-term grade and there's a long-term grade. Cause check this out. Let's say you, let's say you've never worked out before and you've been watching video games and eating donuts and, and just, you know, in, in bad physical shape.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Jocko Willink?

  Your grade, your overall grade for physical fitness is whatever. It's a 1.0. It's the low, it's the lowest it can go. But.

• 1:20:05Jocko Willink?

  Daily, if you get up, okay, look, look, I can only run one mile and it's gonna take me 20 minutes, 22 minutes. I'm gonna do it and then I'm gonna do as many pushups as I can, which is 23, by the way.

• 1:20:19Jocko Willink?

  If I did a one mile run in 22 minutes and did 23 pushups, that would, I would get a 1.0 for the day. But this individual that's been on the couch, living a sedentary lifestyle, if he does that, guess what? He's gonna get, he's gonna get a high grade, he's gonna get a 4.8 for the day. So then he's leading himself in the right direction.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41Jocko Willink?

  So not only is the, not only do you have to, this is one of the problems, and again, this is something I told Dave, I'm like, listen,

• 1:20:49Jocko Willink?

  a once, a bi-annual, twice a year, every six months, you're getting a grade, that doesn't help you. What, you need to look at yourself every day. You need to look at yourself every day and say, did I truly live this way, live the way I should be living today? And then those standards need to be clear. And then you need to apply them to your life.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. I might even say, like, the, the, that, that example you just gave, so the guy who's sitting on the couch all the time, or whatever, or every day, and now he's doing, he's working out every day, but his physical fitness standard technically is still low.

• 1:21:30Jocko Willink?

  Still very low.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  He's still gonna be at a 1.0. Maybe another area of evaluation is like, you know, improvement, or you know how you say, or back when you're young, you know, they give you that most improved kind of thing.

• 1:21:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Maybe that could be part of it.

• 1:21:46Jocko Willink?

  I think it will be covered by the daily track. The daily track, like, okay, you got a, you got a 4.0 today, what's your average right now? My average for the last, my running average for 30 days is I'm hitting a 3.9 physical fitness. That means I'm doing something every day, I'm pushing the envelope, I'm improving. Now, my overall score is moved from a 1 to a 1.2.

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:09Jocko Willink?

  Cause I'm, I'm in a little bit better shape, but it's still not where it needs to be.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:12Jocko Willink?

  But guess what? That can crush some people, right? If someone goes, oh, my 1.2, I'm never gonna improve, it sucks, it's been three months. No, guess what? What'd you get today? What'd you do today? Same thing, opposite, right? The opposite can happen, where someone thinks, well, I did something, I did something today, so I'm good.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:29Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:30Jocko Willink?

  No, and the other collateral damages, I- Did good physical fitness today, so I'm gonna take tomorrow off.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Jocko Willink?

  Or I'm gonna eat a, you know, a crappy meal.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:41Jocko Willink?

  We get that pizza together.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43Jocko Willink?

  Right? We don't want that.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:45Jocko Willink?

  We, and when I say we, I mean me.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:49Jocko Willink?

  In that, why is that? Cause we've, we've, we've created this, this, this pliable standard in our head.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:59Jocko Willink?

  That we move around based on our little feelings.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:23:04Jocko Willink?

  But, but this does, this won't allow for it.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Jocko Willink?

  You need to keep yourself in check.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:10Jocko Willink?

  You need to keep yourself in check at all times. And the reason you need to keep your check, self in check at all times. You need to impose discipline on your life because you will end up in a better situation. That you will end up in a better situation. You'll end up with more freedom is where you're gonna end up. You know, people, you, you talk about regret, right? Oh, you go talk to people when they're, when they're dying on their deathbed and they're, they're gonna regret things they didn't do. There's nothing I can imagine you're gonna regret more than when you look back at your life and you say, I didn't achieve what I could have achieved.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:46Jocko Willink?

  And there's only one way to maximize your achievement and that's the daily discipline, daily discipline. And again, when we're talking about achievement, what are we talking about? I'm not just talking about, I worked more than you, I made more money than you, I produced more, I sold more cars. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what, what is your, what is your achievement?

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:08Jocko Willink?

  What is it you're trying to do? I spent a bunch of time with my family and raised great kids. Okay, that's what you wanna do? Put that on paper so you know what that looks like.

• 1:24:17Jocko Willink?

  Maybe there is a financial, there should be a financial aspect to it. Because you need to pay, you need to have a roof over your head. You need to be able to feed your kids. So you certainly should have a job, a vocation aspect to grading yourself. Are you doing what you should be doing at work? Because if you're working hard at work, guess what? You're gonna get promoted eventually or you're gonna find it, you're gonna improve your skills to a point where you'll be more valuable. And you can go find a different job somewhere else. So that's gotta be in there. Because if what we allow ourselves to do is show up at work every day and just do what we need to do to get by, guess what? You're never leaving that job. You'll be doing that thing forever.

• 1:24:58Jocko Willink?

  So it's physical fitness, it's what you're eating, your fuel systems that you're putting into your body. It's the family, the, the, the effort. What are you doing to improve the skill sets of your children? What are you doing? What are you doing to improve the skill sets of your children? Are you spending 20 minutes teaching them new vocabulary words so that they can articulate better? So they can become a better leader when they get older? Are you doing that? Is that a big ask as a dad? As a mom? Are you doing it? Have you showed them how to escape? A guillotine? Have you? Maybe you should.

• 1:25:43Jocko Willink?

  Cause you can get caught in a guillotine, that's a street fight, right? Street fight guillotines are coming.

• 1:25:49Jocko Willink?

  So have you, does your kid know how to escape? A guillotine in a street fight? How much is it, how long will it take? You gotta teach them today, that takes 15 minutes, but you gotta drill it. Gotta drill it every day until they kind of understand it. So what have you invested in your kids today? What's the minimum standard? Now you could think to yourself. Well, you know.

• 1:26:13Jocko Willink?

  I got my kid an iPad for Christmas. That was an awesome gift, so I'm pretty much good to go. As a dad. Right? Does your kid care about that iPad compared to, or you fast forward three years where your kid's got an incredible vocabulary? And can defend guillotines, right? So how much have you invested? In your family?

• 1:26:37Jocko Willink?

  So these are the kind of things that we can set a moving goalpost where you can set a moving goalpost that says, I buy, hey, if you get your kid an iPad with some apps on it, you're a good dad. That's a moving goalpost. Hey, you should, hey, if you can get your kid an iPad and they can get some education stuff, you feel pretty good about it. Cool, good job. Is that a moving goalpost? Yes, it is. Cause what they really need to know is have a better vocabulary. What they really need is interaction with you as a human being. So that they can interact with other human beings in a, in a more complete way. That's what we're doing. So you got your physical, you got your, okay, mental. What are you, how much have you read today? And I'm not talking about reading somebody's freaking Instagram post. That doesn't count. Get negative credit for that. You're getting dumber when you do that.

• 1:27:22Jocko Willink?

  So what, what are you, what are you doing? How many words did you learn today? And by the way, this is brain maintenance too. Cause if you're not trying to learn new things, then your brain is deteriorating, just like your body will.

• 1:27:38Jocko Willink?

  So you got that aspect. What about your creative output? What have you done in that capacity? Did you write us, did you draw a picture? Did you write a story? Did you come up with a guitar riff that kinda rocks?

• 1:27:55Jocko Willink?

  Right? Did you? Cause you may or may not have. My guess is you didn't. So what? Have you done that today? And where, and by the way, if you think, oh, I took a cool picture for Instagram and I'm kinda giving myself artistic credit for output right there. No. No. So, and then you start looking at all this stuff and you start adding it together. Your time that you invested in your work and your family and your friends and you're trying to, trying to teach your kids something and you're trying to read something. And all of a sudden you look and you say, well, I don't have much time. And then you look at yourself and say, wait a second. Where, where did my time go today? What grade do I get today for time management?

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's a big one.

• 1:28:39Jocko Willink?

  Because did I spend time doing things that I got negative value? Never mind break even. Actually negative value.

• 1:28:50Jocko Willink?

  And we don't have a grading system. We don't know what we're aiming at. We don't know what the potential is. Cause that's what's cool about this. You, you read these definitions, the high end, the, the outstanding, the eminently qualified Marine. That is an unachievable, unachievable human.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:05Jocko Willink?

  It's an unachievable Marine. You will not be that good. You cannot hold all those categories. But let me tell you something. That is no reason to not aspire to become the most eminently qualified human being that you can become. Just because it's an impossible path. Just because it's a path with no end to it. Just because you'll never reach the top of the mountain, ever. You will not. You cannot. Guess what? That is no reason to stop. Guess what? Jiu Jitsu, you're gonna get tapped out. You're, there's always gonna be someone that can tap you out, always. 100% of the time. The best guys in the world get tapped out.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:48Jocko Willink?

  The best guys in the world get tapped out. Buchecha, Hodger Gracie. Buchecha's the best guy in the world. What happens? He goes in gi and loses to Hodger Gracie. Tapped out, submitted. Why is that? Cause somebody's always, and what happened to Roger Gracie, by the way, when he fought Tim Kennedy? He got beat down. So, there's always, you're never gonna get to the top of the mountain, but that is not, there's, that is not a reason to not, to stop climbing. Just because you're not gonna reach the top of the mountain, doesn't mean you stop climbing. No. Actually, you climb harder. You see where you can get.

• 1:30:30Jocko Willink?

  But if you don't know what you're climbing, if you don't understand the mountain, if you can't see the summit, you don't know where to climb. And then you just look around and go, well, I might as well just slide down.

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:30:41Jocko Willink?

  Cause it, it, it's, it takes physical and mental exertion to move up the mountain. And if I don't even know where the top is, I'm just gonna, I can't tell where I am. I can't tell if I'm halfway up the mountain, a quarter way up the mountain. I can't tell if I'm close to the top, bottom of the top, I can't tell. So there's enough reason for me just to sit around and do nothing. Break out the donuts.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  The, okay, so the way you started this was, was with your Navy experience, as far as evaluations go, and it, okay, so this is essentially what it, what it kinda translated to me, what it was. In the Navy, the one that you were talking about was like, everyone expected to get the high, the top, the perfect score, right? And that was sort of the standard. And then in the Marine Corps one, it's kinda the opposite.

• 1:31:23Jocko Willink?

  Well, no, the Navy one started off, when I first got in the Navy, basically everyone was a 4.0 and everything. Then they changed it because you needed to force rank. And I don't know when the Marine Corps, or if they made that change, but, but they did, cause that's the way it is now. They're force ranked for sure.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, so the and the point is just the two um different standards um like common like standards, right? Where you know when, because you get this in other places too, where it's like, oh, you know, it's just a just here's your quarterly evaluation. And I just put fours, you know, because I don't have any complaints about you kind of thing. It doesn't necessarily reflect how dope you really are.

• 1:31:57Jocko Willink?

  Or how dope you could be.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly right. So it's just more of like, okay, so the ceiling is pretty low is what it is. By like a common like perception as far as the standard goes. Then you got to have the opposite where it's like, oh, we all know no one's gonna get a five, like we all just know that. So we're we're just kind of doing the best we can kind of thing. And in that way is better for obvious reasons. But at the end of the day, it's like when you say, oh, yeah, you can literally be like you're topping out. Because as you get better and better, it's harder to get better and better, you know, so. If but you won't even get to those upper levels if that ceiling was so low and you're ripping fours all day or all year, whatever. So, man, I used to um I used to play this game Super Mario Brothers. You ever heard of that?

• 1:32:44Jocko Willink?

  I have heard of it, but I've never I don't think I've ever played one single second of that particular video game.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  Right, dang, bro, okay.

• 1:32:54Jocko Willink?

  I played Halo one time for about three minutes with some of the guys that was in my SEAL platoon. And and then I just was thought it was uh they were really good at it. They murdered me a bunch of different ways.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:07Jocko Willink?

  And then I said, well, this is stupid. It's a video game. I don't care who wants to go grapple.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that part is I would say that that's true, but this the the point still is consistent. So Super Mario Brothers, it's okay, so is Super Mario. There's a bunch of Mario Brothers.

• 1:33:23Jocko Willink?

  This is one is super though.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  This one is called Super Mario Brothers, the original Nintendo Entertainment System. I want to say nineteen eighty four, if I'm not mistaken.

• 1:33:32Jocko Willink?

  Old school.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  So Super Mario Brothers had four worlds, uh sorry, eight worlds, four levels each world, so thirty two levels.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  And you have an opportunity at various points in some levels to hit the warp, like the warp zone. So you go down a pipe and it skips like all these levels, right? So you could, you could essentially get through the game in maybe like, I don't know, six or eight levels.

• 1:33:58Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  If you warped, right? But if you chose not to warp, you would have to go through all thirty-two levels. So I used to be able to go through all thirty-two levels, never dying one single time. Like I got really, really good at that.

• 1:34:13Jocko Willink?

  You're, for those of you that just listening and not seeing this on video, Echo looks super proud of that last statement. I mean, I was a little bit embarrassed for him, but it's cool.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 1:34:22Jocko Willink?

  Okay, thirty-two levels, never dying, Super Mario Brothers.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  Here's why that's, here's why that's significant though, as far as Super Mario Brothers goes. Because you can easily pass the game, save the princess by just warping. And it's still real hard, but you, you got, you know, you only go through a few levels compared to if you go through all the levels voluntarily, right? So, once you save the princess by warping, it's like, cool, now you gotta go through all the levels. But if you can do that without dying, that's like, that's super high level, right? As far as Super Mario Brothers goes. So it's basically so.

• 1:34:56Jocko Willink?

  What's your point?

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  So go back to those two standards.

• 1:34:58Jocko Willink?

  This is hurting me.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Go back to the two standards. If you go for the standards, like, oh yeah, everyone gets a kind of a four-point-oh kind of thing, that's like passing the, passing the game by warping. It's true. Like, man, you pass the game in one man, damn, that's good. That's good by any standard, really. You know, I can't complain about that. But you gotta open up the standard a little bit more. Go through all thirty-two levels, then without dying. Then you do it as quick as you can, kind of thing. And if that standard kind of allows for all that, where you can't reach the top of the, like, the standard isn't saving the princess. Standard is like something way greater, you see what I'm saying? So it allows you to get better and be evaluated on that, on that elevation while still not, like, capping out at a certain level. You see what I'm saying? That's what you gotta do, as far as the evaluation process goes.

• 1:35:43Jocko Willink?

  Okay, bro.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  Bro, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, look to Super Mario Brothers. There is this thing they discovered, it was like a glitch in the game, where you could like, go to this one level and do this thing with a turtle shell and keep jumping on it and get like a thousand men.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Which is kind of a step backwards in a way, but that's just a side note.

• 1:36:07Jocko Willink?

  Dang, okay. How much time have you spent playing video games? Imagine what you could have done with your life.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, keep in mind.

• 1:36:15Jocko Willink?

  You could have played guitar, you could have played, you know, instruments, you could have mastered chess, you could have spoken another language. Instead, you're over here talking about how you did thirty-two levels.

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  In one minute, by the way.

• 1:36:29Jocko Willink?

  By the way, this is, this is to get you a really low grade. When I come up with a system, your grade is gonna be low.

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  Yes, as far as achievements goes, yes, very low, but as far as an evaluation process.

• 1:36:41Jocko Willink?

  Did other people like highly respect you? Did Jade Charles go, hey, man? Did he kinda?

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes.

• 1:36:49Jocko Willink?

  There you go. Look at that, you finally got that respect you wanted from that Super Mario.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  I was in fifth grade, by the way, so, you know, a little bit different.

• 1:36:56Jocko Willink?

  Was that a humble brag? Like, I did thirty-two levels. By the way, I was only in fifth grade.

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  No, I think it was more of an aging thing. Actually, that wasn't a brag at all, cuz in fifth grade.

• 1:37:05Jocko Willink?

  You could have been learning the language.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:37:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  We're doing pull-ups, or actually, I was doing pull-ups in fifth grade.

• 1:37:11Jocko Willink?

  That's legit.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, big time. I thought so.

• 1:37:13Jocko Willink?

  Check. Well, okay, here's the bottom line. We are looking to step up, we are looking to, to, to become better. Truly better. So, what do you got for us? How can you, how can you help us get better?

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, to stay on the path, so, and actually, that brings up a good point, cuz we're on the path, quote unquote, right? You, me, whatever, are all on the path and saying, we're even saying we're on the path, straight up, saying it. But like, what is the path, though? I mean, sure, there's some things, you know, we can go through it, jujitsu, of course, is part of it, but you don't have any evaluation kind of standard, is what you say. So, yeah, I think that'll be how, actually, I'm really looking forward to it, to be honest with you. Nonetheless, jujitsu, yes, that's on the path. Here's, okay, so this will help us prep, then, at the very least, prepare to be officially on the path and be evaluated at the same time. Get a G. Step one, get a G. Step one, be get a rash guard. So where do we get our gees? We get our gees from Origin.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Originmain.com best gees in the world factually. Actually, the new Rift is at out. That's right. Rift.

• 1:38:21Jocko Willink?

  It just lies.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Re, this is like, when you put a Rift gi on and then go back to your old gi.

• 1:38:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Like I said this before.

• 1:38:29Jocko Willink?

  It's a game. It's a non-starter.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  You're gonna be mad at your old gi. You're gonna betray your old gi.

• 1:38:35Jocko Willink?

  You're gonna wonder why anyone ever made a gi like they used to make them.

• 1:38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. But then again, then you're gonna, then if you choose, you can revisit or you can visit that video that Pete put out about like, you know, how it's made and like all this stuff. It's like, okay, that's why they didn't make it because what they went through to make it.

• 1:38:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  You know, not, not everyone's willing to do that.

• 1:38:56Jocko Willink?

  And as usual, we are standing on the shoulders of giants because you always look at the way things have evolved and you have to take those iterative steps. No one just thinks of

• 1:39:08Jocko Willink?

  the iPhone.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:39:09Jocko Willink?

  Right? Somebody had to make a bunch of other phones before that.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And then even consider iPhone like right now, like what is the newest one? I don't know. X or some, something 10, right?

• 1:39:20Jocko Willink?

  I don't know.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  The X is the 10, you know, Roman numerals, I guess. I didn't know that at first. Anyway, the one in six years from now is gonna make this X 10 one be like, oh, that's the old school. You know, like non-evolved Neanderthal one. That's what it's gonna feel like.

• 1:39:38Jocko Willink?

  That's what, that's what your old gi will feel like.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:39:40Jocko Willink?

  A non-evolved Neanderthal gi.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  Gi.

• 1:39:42Jocko Willink?

  And then you put on the Rift, you go, oh.

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:45Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, you can get the, you can get the gees, you can get the rash guards, you can get other clothing. You can also get supplements, which right now I am taking a ton of joint warfare. Yeah, I hurt my knee. Which is not that big of a deal because let's face it, I'm walking around, you know, we're gonna be fine. It's not that big of a deal. I don't want people to feel like, oh no, what happened? Don't worry. Everything is fine. I did, however, up the joint warfare and continue the krill oil path. But the, the joint warfare, you can feel it in there, can feel it like little micro nano robots in there repairing stuff. Now.

• 1:40:29Jocko Willink?

  You have to, you know, I know it happened with your bicep, but the last time I hurt my other knee, it was a disaster. And this one is already. So anyways, get your joint warfare.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  I remember you, well, I mean, of course I remember it because it was as recent as today, where you're like, I'm like Wolverine, I heal up so fast. But I'm like, yeah, well, I dig it. It's probably the joint warfare, but yeah, man.

• 1:40:55Jocko Willink?

  The joint warfare has something to do with it. But also there's some, there's definitely, I definitely have been blessed with some sort of a ability to, to heal up a little quicker.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Jocko Willink?

  Thank, thankfully, knock on wood. That's what it seems like to me.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Cool. Well, also we have milk, which is additional protein that happens to be delicious and tastes like a dessert, straight up. It's the way it goes with that also.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Warrior kid milk, same deal, just for the kids.

• 1:41:26Jocko Willink?

  It's a little bit of the same deal, but they have strawberry warrior kid milk, which is literally the best tasting thing in the world. Uh, that has strawberry flavor because mint is still my favorite. And we do have strawberry adult milk coming out. I teeny that. And it is ridiculous.

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  What is T and E?

• 1:41:46Jocko Willink?

  Test and evaluate. So I got the little package in the mail.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:49Jocko Willink?

  And it was so good. So yeah, you can get that, you know, also discipline.

• 1:41:57Jocko Willink?

  And discipline go. So discipline, if you are going to train jujitsu, or you're going to do something that's going to require physical output and at the same time, mental alertness. So that's, for me, it was always about, hey, pre-mission. Because when you're on a mission, you have to be physically ready and you have to be mentally ready. You need both aspects. And so that's why we made discipline. So you're ready for those things. And then also we have discipline go. Which is a, which is a capsule. And the reason I made this is because sometimes I'm going to speak or I'm going to work with a company or I'm going to be in a boardroom all day and I want to bring my A game.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:42:43Jocko Willink?

  And I don't wanna have to drink a whole beverage. Because I don't, don't need it at that time. So, I talked to Pete and Brian, we took the, the elements from Discipline Drink, put them into the capsule. So that way, if you need to bring your A-game, you can get your Discipline Go.

• 1:43:05Jocko Willink?

  And that will get you across the board. And so we'll, a little bit of Jaco White Tea.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  Yep. It's a good, the original, the original tea that Jaco was into.

• 1:43:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  Which is kind of a, you know, white tea, it's, you know, at first, but now it's sort of a staple, it's like synonymous, you know? Jaco White Tea.

• 1:43:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. It's synonymous with good taste. It's synonymous with 8,000 pound deadlift.

• 1:43:34Jocko Willink?

  So there's that.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Big time. Also, the tea is available at Jaco's store. Cause yes, Jaco has a store, which we already know, but that's a good place to visit, to stay in the game, to represent while you're in the game. So, if you want t-shirts, we've got some lightweight hoodies, rolling, rocking and rolling. Very, a lot of good evaluations on that one.

• 1:43:55Jocko Willink?

  No comment.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause you haven't put one on yet.

• 1:43:58Jocko Willink?

  Because you haven't given me one.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  A lot, well, you know, let's face it, you kind of deserve that one. And it's also changing minds of people who originally weren't really signed on to the lightweight.

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  Special forces over here. I like it. Psyops.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  You know what, hey, the, it's, truth be told, they came out really good. Just even like the fit, the design.

• 1:44:19Jocko Willink?

  Is that the one that Dave had on the other night?

• 1:44:21Speaker 01

  Yes, there it is. One of them, there's two, there's two.

• 1:44:24Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:44:25Jocko Willink?

  You can get truckers hats.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  Yep, patches on there.

• 1:44:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, a bunch of other stuff.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, a bunch of cool stuff. Yeah, if you want, jacostore.com, if you want to represent while you're on the path, while you're being evaluated, that might even be one of the evaluation, uh, scenarios.

• 1:44:40Jocko Willink?

  What?

• 1:44:40Speaker 01

  You know, your uniform.

• 1:44:43Jocko Willink?

  Come on.

• 1:44:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess if someone's just a complete slob.

• 1:44:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:50Jocko Willink?

  Then maybe they do need to step it up.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Jocko Willink?

  Somebody, yeah, okay, maybe uniform will be judged, but I doubt it.

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  Well, okay, well.

• 1:44:57Jocko Willink?

  Don't be wearing a stinky gi though.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, no.

• 1:45:00Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's a uniform violation big time.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:45:03Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you didn't want to wash your gi, so now we all have to suffer.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you're gonna get punished.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  What if?

• 1:45:09Jocko Willink?

  Don't do that. Hey, the, the rift gi?

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:12Jocko Willink?

  The cool thing, you, you can wash with your normal clothes.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:16Jocko Willink?

  Because it's, and it'll dry, it's not, it's not like when you put a regular gi in and it's like you threw a, threw a forty pound weight in your washing machine.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, he.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, cuz it all bunches up to one side, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:32Jocko Willink?

  And it takes nine hours to dry, not the rift, the rift dries with your normal, like, quick dry t-shirts just about.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you see the video Pete had when he's like going into the fibers, like he takes one fiber and he's like breaking it and it's hard to break, he puts the two and you can't even break it? The whole gi is that.

• 1:45:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good, man.

• 1:45:50Jocko Willink?

  Real good.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. That is, for lack of a better term, it's important, it's something. It's not nothing, like to subscribe versus if you didn't subscribe.

• 1:46:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, don't forget about also the Warrior Kid podcast. So this is one where your kids can actually be educated. This is quality time with your kids. You sit there and listen to Warrior Kid podcast, instead of driving your car and you're playing some lame music for them, or you're having them listen to some dumb podcasts, no.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:46:26Jocko Willink?

  Have them listen to Warrior Kid podcast, they're gonna learn from it, you're gonna learn from it.

• 1:46:31Jocko Willink?

  Just check it out, it'll, it'll help, it will help your kids. I just got a text this morning from a buddy who said he had a, this is going into the book, but he had a nephew who had been through, you know, a rough time and ten years old, got him the Warrior Kid book, boom. Warrior Kid, he's like, that, that book completely changed the trajectory of my nephew's life. And that doesn't get much better than that. But the Warrior Kid podcast has the same messages in a podcast format, so check that out. And also, while you're there, you can check out some of that. irishoaksranch.com where we have a warrior kid that is making soap started a business making

• 1:47:15Jocko Willink?

  soap on his farm from goat milk and that goat milk will help you stay clean.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  Stay clean. My daughter has a question for Uncle Jake. Don't worry, I'll send it to him.

• 1:47:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  You know, we'll get that sorted. Also YouTube, we have a YouTube channel if you're interested in the video version of this podcast. See what Jaco looks like while he, you know, gives it to you straight. You know, that's where you go.

• 1:47:41Jocko Willink?

  There's also some of Echo's legit videos on there that he calls legit videos. He feels good about. He feels really good about them. And just like he feels good about getting through 32 levels.

• 1:47:53Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  Kinda, yeah, sometimes.

• 1:47:56Jocko Willink?

  And then we'll get psychological warfare. If you need a little, everyone that looks for an alarm says, oh, really be great to have an alarm. Jaco make an alarm. That's the alarm. Psychological warfare. It's on iTunes, Google Play, MP3 platforms and not only will it wake you up in the morning, but if you're having a moment of weakness because you want to eat a donut, this will 100% effective. Stop you from eating a donut. Press play. Psychological warfare. Check it out. Also flip side canvases. My brother Dakota Meyer, you heard him on this podcast number 115. If you haven't listened to that podcast, just go listen to it. Give yourself about four hours because it's long and it's heavy, but he's got a company where he's putting images onto various forms of canvas of nylon or what is it vinyl, vinyl,

• 1:48:40Jocko Willink?

  and you can take these things and that way, these are the kind of things you can put up in your house where you look at it and you get that little extra message to go get some. Or that all your excuses are lies, or that things are good, or that discipline equals freedom. So check it out. Flipsidecanvas.com. Support my brother Dakota Meyer.

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  Some really good stuff on there. Also, if you're looking to expand your, your workout horizons, go to onit.com/jaco. They got some good workout gear on there. A lot of good info, a lot of good stuff on there overall. It's like to, to optimize your whole situation. But yeah, really good stuff on there. Onit.com/jaco.

• 1:49:22Jocko Willink?

  Some books.

• 1:49:25Jocko Willink?

  I just talked about Way of the Warrior Kid. That's one, that's book one. The next book, same series called Mark's Mission. And then there's the third book in the series, which is called Way of the Warrior Kid, Where There's a Will. So that is now live for preorder at this time. If you want it, order it now. That way I can print enough copies for everyone. That's called the big preorder that I used to make fun of my publisher. But guess who the publisher is now? Me, so I have to know how many to print. So if you want it, order it now and it's going to come out May 28th. So there you go. Also, we have Mikey and the Dragons. This is a book to help kids figure out how to overcome fear.

• 1:50:09Jocko Willink?

  Sure, your kids could lead, read some book where you could read some book to your little kid. That's about things that don't matter in the world. Or you could read him a book that helps them actually learn how to overcome their fears. That's Mikey and the Dragons. Great story, awesome art. Very awesome art, yes. The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Give the gift of discipline. That's, that's all there is to say. It's the book that's going to show people that you, it's going to show people the path. If you want that on audio form, then that's not on Audible. It's on iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play and other MP3 platforms.

• 1:50:49Jocko Willink?

  Then you got Extreme Ownership, which I wrote with my brother Leif Babin, where we took the leadership lessons we learned on the battlefield. And explain how those can be applied to your business and life. And one of those lessons in that book is called the dichotomy of leadership. The dichotomy of leadership seemed to be, as we continue to work with businesses, companies, leaders around the world. We found that the biggest problem that they had was balancing the dichotomy of leadership. And when you can't balance the dichotomy of leadership, the multiple dichotomies of leadership, when you can't balance them, they derail your whole team. So get Extreme Ownership and get yourself the dichotomy of leadership so that you can understand how to truly apply these things effectively.

• 1:51:32Jocko Willink?

  Echelon Front, that's my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership. We have an outstanding team of outstanding guys. Leif Babbin, JP Danelle, Dave Burke, Mike Cochran, or sorry, Flynn Cochran, Mike Sorelli, Mike Byema, and now Jason Gardner. If you need help at your company with any problem, because every problem that you have in your business is a leadership problem, that's what we do. We solve problems through leadership, echelonfront.com. We have the muster coming up. Chicago, 23rd and 24th. We haven't pulled the sold out switch yet, but we're going to, it's almost sold out. September 19th and 20th, that's, that's May 23rd and 24th in Chicago.

• 1:52:16Jocko Willink?

  September 19th and 20th in Denver. And then December 4th and 5th in Sydney. Extremeownership.com, if you want to register, do it quickly because all of them are going to sell out.

• 1:52:29Jocko Willink?

  EF Online, this is for those of you that can't make it to a muster, or you can't bring your whole company to a muster because it's expensive. That's why we made EF Online. This is online, interactive leadership training. It's me and it's everyone on the Echelon Front team, training leadership through technology. It's, it's available, direct to consumer. If you're just one person, you want to get in the game, or you've got a company, you can get it through enterprise. But if you want to check it out, go to EFOnline.com. And of course, on top of that, we have EF Overwatch where we're taking leaders, proven

• 1:53:09Jocko Willink?

  leaders from Spec Ops and from Combat Aviation, putting them, placing them into companies in the civilian sector. Don't always hire someone based just because they have experience in a field. Actually hire them for their leadership capability because it is a lot easier to teach someone an industry than it is to teach someone leadership. So get yourself a qualified, proven leader. Go to EFOverwatch.com if that's what you need.

• 1:53:42Jocko Willink?

  And if you want to hang out with us a little bit more, because you're just not satisfied with 500 hours of us on this podcast, well, then we are on the interwebs. We are on Twitter, we are on Instagram, and of course, we are on that

• 1:54:02Jocko Willink?

  Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink and thanks to all the people that make this podcast possible. And by that, I mean, not some big corporate sponsor. By that, I mean, our police, our military, our law enforcement, our firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, Border Patrol, and yes, Secret Service, all you first responders, all you in uniform, your service and your sacrifice. Allow us to live,

• 1:54:35Jocko Willink?

  to live a life of liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which is what we're doing here. And everyone else out there,

• 1:54:44Jocko Willink?

  check yourself. Evaluate yourself honestly. Are you doing what you can do to be better?

• 1:54:55Jocko Willink?

  Are you working as hard as you can? And that just doesn't mean work as in your vocation or your job. Are you working to be a better father or mother or daughter or son? Are you maximizing opportunities? And again, not just professional opportunities, but opportunities to help someone, to teach someone, to coach someone, to make someone else better.

• 1:55:22Jocko Willink?

  Are you maximizing the opportunities to spend time with your family to strengthen the relationships you have?

• 1:55:30Jocko Willink?

  Are you maximizing the opportunities to make the members of your family better?

• 1:55:38Jocko Willink?

  Are you every day doing everything you can to live the most eminently worthy life you can live? Ask yourself those questions.

• 1:55:52Jocko Willink?

  And when you realize that you fall short, that we all fall short. When you realize that, then get yourself on the path to correct those shortfalls by going out there.

• 1:56:08Jocko Willink?

  And getting after it.

• 1:56:11Jocko Willink?

  And until next time. This is Echo and Jaco. Out.