Yes It’s Radical (Even A Little Crazy) | The MOST Important Stoic Lesson For Crazy Times

We have to push ourselves outside our comfort. We have to give and give and give. Because it’s right.📚 For more on doing the right thing even when it’s difficult, check out Ryan Holiday’s latest book Right Thing, Right Now. Centered around the Stoic virtue of justice, the book is a guide to navigating tough decisions and ethical challenges with moral courage during our complex, modern times. Grab a signed copies over at the Daily Stoic Store!🎥 Watch our video "The MOST Important Stoic Lesson For CRAZY TIMES" over on the Daily Stoic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLyddxZySk8🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast🎥 Watch top moments from The Daily Stoic Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/📱 Follow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, and FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. 📢 Share | ⚙️ Manage Subscription

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each day we bring you a Stoic-inspired meditation, designed to help you find strength and insight and wisdom into everyday life. Each one of these episodes is based on the 2,000-year-old philosophy that has guided some of history's greatest men and women, help you learn from them, to follow in their example, and to start your day off with a little dose of courage and discipline and justice and wisdom. For more, visit DailyStoic.com.

• 0:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, it's radical and even a little crazy. It's perfectly natural, it's logical. It is the definition of self-interest that we would want to take care of ourselves first, and then next favor people who are related to us or could do something for us next. And so this debate about who society owes obligations to, who it should prioritize when it comes to charity and social programs, is a timeless one. But it's also one that has become timely, with Vice President J.D. Vance invoking the idea of Ordo Amorris, a Catholic doctrine about the order of our affections, to support the Trump administration's plan to deport large numbers of immigrants

• 1:40Ryan Holiday?

  and of various legal and illegal statuses, among the changes to a bunch of different government priorities and programs and funding. And although the Pope ultimately pushed back on Vance's interpretations of the ideas of Augustine and Aquinas, as did many Catholic charities who work with refugees, Vance is correct to say that we naturally care about ourselves and our own interests first. In fact, the Stoics believed we were born that way, fighting in our earliest days solely for our own survival.

• 2:13Ryan Holiday?

  But, and this is the important part, they did not believe we should stay that way. One of the most important Stoic ethical thinkers was a man named Hyrcles. And Hyrcles ordered the universe in a series of concentric circles. In the middle, he said, was us, the individual. And surrounding each individual was family and friends and fellow citizens, members of an empire, then humanity as a whole. And beyond these circles, there were the people not yet born. There were animals. We might even add to this the environment. And this was the natural primal order, he conceded. But Stoicism is and never has been a philosophy of just giving in to our baser assumptions and feelings. And neither, it should be said, is Christianity.

• 2:58Ryan Holiday?

  The work of philosophy, Hyrcles argued, was to pull these outer rings towards us. This was radical, even a little crazy, he again conceded. But it was a beautiful madness, he believed. The person who sacrifices themselves to save a drowning stranger, the person who voluntarily saves and sends some of their money to help people in a foreign land. A figure like Regulus, a story I tell and write thing right now, who trades his own freedom to preserve the principle of diplomatic trust so that Rome's word would be valued in the future. A society that makes room for refugees or gives criminals a second chance. All these things shake up the Ordo Amoros,

• 3:41Ryan Holiday?

  as the Stoics tried to, as Christ himself modeled. It's crazy, yes. It's not always in our best short-term interest, but it's beautiful. It's complicated and can be hard to strike the right balance, sure. But we have to try. We have to push ourselves outside our comfort. We have to give and give and give. Because it is right. Because it is the embodiment of justice.

• 4:10Ryan Holiday?

  Obviously, that's what the justice book is about. But I talked about this and this political issue, actually, a little bit back when I was in Ireland, when I gave my talks. I'm going to run this little chunk because I think this is a really important Stoic lesson that we can't lose sight on. So I'm going to extend today's episode another five minutes or so. So here, let me run this clip here. To me, the key challenge of our time is the ability to not let the craziness of the world around us make us crazy, to be able to focus on what we need to focus on and tune out the rest. And I don't mean to say you become disengaged, you don't contribute, you just focus on your own stuff. That's the opposite, right? The key Stoic virtue, to me, the most important of all the virtues is justice.

• 4:55Ryan Holiday?

  And it's clear that justice is the most important virtue because of what happens when you remove it from the other virtues. Courage in pursuit of an unjust cause, discipline to the pursuit of selfishness, this isn't admirable. I'm sure Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the nephew of John F. Kennedy, thinks he's speaking truth to power, being courageous or whatever. The problem is like a worm ate his brain and he spews nonsense. You can take a courageous stand, but if the cause is bad, it's not so great. That's what Lord Byron said. 'Tis the cause makes all that halloes or degrades courage in its fall.

• 5:35Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, you're marching to the beat of your own drummer, risking people judging you when you stand up and say the world is flat, but that's not the courage we're talking about, right? It has to be directed at things that have a social good, a social component. That's what Stoicism is. More than 80 times in Meditations, Marcus Aurelius talks about the common good, our obligation to each other. Stoics talk a lot about what's our concern and what's not our concern. They didn't just mean like some things are in our control and some things are not in our control. He's saying, Hierocles, one of the great Middle Stoics, talks about how we all exist as a series of concentric circles. Yeah, we're at the center, but there's people we love, people that live near us, our fellow citizens.

• 6:20Ryan Holiday?

  There's animals, there's people that live far away from us. There's people we've never met. There's people who've never been born. He says the work of philosophy is to expand our circles or to pull the outer circles inward. To care about the common good, to care about, genuinely love and do good for people far away from us, people not like us, people that we know nothing about because they are fellow human beings. So John F. Kennedy's father, Joseph Kennedy, was the ambassador to the UK from 38 to 40. And he was basically a Nazi appeaser. He sort of falls in love with the idea of Hitler. He thinks that it's a war the world can't possibly win, that Hitler's unstoppable.

• 7:05Ryan Holiday?

  And so he is constantly sending back these sort of messages of not getting involved, downplaying what's happening. And, you know, this is a moral stain on him and the family. So I think it's both ironic and perfectly understandable that JFK would be responsible for a couple of famous misquotations. He says, he believes he's quoting Edmund Burke, that "the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." He says, or he thinks he says, that Dante said that "the harshest circle of hell is reserved for those who stay neutral in moments of moral crisis." Neither of them said anything really on close to that wording,

• 7:50Ryan Holiday?

  but it's kind of Freudian that he would think that, given his father's terrible decision. Sometimes I get pushback from people when I talk about anything political with Daily Stoic. They go, "Why pick a side? You're gonna piss off half your audience." It's very American that they assume 100% of the audience is American and that 50% of the audience is Republican, which it's definitely not, thank you. But the reason you pick a side is because you have to pick a side. That's what justice is about. Seneca said that the key distinction between the Stoics and the Epicureans is that the Epicureans only got involved in politics and public life. If they had to, he says a Stoic gets involved unless something prevents you.

• 8:35Ryan Holiday?

  In meditations, Marcus Aurelius reminds himself, he lists all the injustices we all commit and things we do that are wrong, that we shouldn't do. And he says, but it's important to remember that you can commit an injustice by doing nothing also. And given the state of the world, given the state of the country that I reside in, given the trends that are on the march all over the world, the idea that you get to be neutral, that you don't have to pick a side, that you just focus on what your own little life, this is what he's talking about when he talks about injustice. Sure, the election probably won't change my life, one way or another. I have options, I have money, I live in the middle of nowhere, but it's gonna affect other people's lives. And you have to care about that as if it affects your own life.

• 9:19Ryan Holiday?

  That's what the Stoics are saying, that's what pulling these outer rings inwards is about. People are openly talking in America about a plan to deport north of 10 million human beings. The logistical horror of that, what that would actually mean and be and cost and inflict on people is almost incomprehensible, which is the point, they're not even thinking about it at all because they don't know these people, these people aren't really even people to them. That's what demagogues do, they dehumanize so they can allow things to happen.

• 10:00Ryan Holiday?

  Voltaire said, "He who can get you to believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." So first, this is the playbook of Trump and Vance to first say that there's 20 million illegal immigrants in America, which there objectively is not. So then, when they say, "We're gonna deport 10 million of them," a moral abomination, a project that would, I would assume, involve loading people onto trains, putting them in camps, you know, there's only a couple ways to do something like this. But the point is, to get you to imagine, wrap your head around an absurdity, then allows you to turn off your moral compass towards an atrocity. So this idea that Stoicism is about not caring is in fact the opposite of what it's about.

• 10:46Ryan Holiday?

  You have to care. You have to care about other people. You have to care about people who are not like you. Because if you don't, who does that make you? It's not just that it degrades you. The Stoics would say that allowing cruelty and evil to exist in the world, it most of all degrades you. So, look, there are huge, enormous injustices and problems in the world. And each of us as individuals only have so much say over them, can stop them in some way. But what a Stoic does, what a Stoic would focus on is where we do have impact. Voting, of course, is part of this. But mostly, they would say, how can you do good for someone? Right? What is the smallest thing you can do? How can you be a small light in a dark room, as they say?

• 11:30Ryan Holiday?

  So, look, this is what we have to be working on. We can't lose sight of this. We can't lose track of what's right.

• 11:42Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Daily Stoic Podcast. I just wanted to say, we so appreciate it. We love serving you. It's amazing to us that over 30 million people have downloaded these episodes in the couple of years we've been doing it. It's an honor. Please, spread the word. Tell people about it. And this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say, thank you.