Scale of 1–10: How Strict Are We on These Ramsey Rules?

❓ Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help! Have you ever read an “opinions are my own” disclaimer in someone’s social media bio? That’s the vibe of today’s episode. Today we’re confessing (and explaining) some of our most “non-Ramsey” financial takes. Next Steps: · 🎙️ Catch our episode Decoding Weird Things Dave Ramsey Says ("Plastic" Surgery?) · 💵 Create a free budget and find more margin with EveryDollar. · 🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour · 📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. Connect With Our Sponsors: · Check out the FAIRWINDS Credit Union exclusive account bundle. · Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. · Get 20% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍷 Blackberry Gin Sour Recipe by Mint & Twist · 2 ounces London dry or floral gin · 3/4 ounce fresh lemon juice · 3/4 ounce blackberry simple syrup · 1 egg white, optional for foam Instructions: Chill a coupe glass in the freezer or fill it with ice while you make the drink. Add the gin, blackberry syrup, lemon juice and egg white to a cocktail shaker without ice. Shake hard for 15 seconds. Add a generous handful of ice and shake again for 15 seconds until well chilled. Tip the ice from the coupe glass and strain the cocktail in. Garnish with fresh blackberries on a skewer. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05George Kamel?

  Have you ever seen a "Opinions are my own disclaimer" in a social media bio? That's the vibe of today's episode. We are sharing or confessing our most non-Ramsey takes.

• 0:16Rachel Cruze?

  George and I have different takes on this probably a little bit.

• 0:18George Kamel?

  Oh, boy. Okay. This is one of the most hotly debated baby steps.

• 0:23Rachel Cruze?

  But I'm gonna go six. I like a little bit of the drama.

• 0:26George Kamel?

  You do like the drama.

• 0:32Rachel Cruze?

  Hey, guys. I'm Rachel Cruz.

• 0:34George Kamel?

  I'm George Kamel.

• 0:36Rachel Cruze?

  And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, George.

• 0:40George Kamel?

  Cheers.

• 0:44Rachel Cruze?

  Wonderful. Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. Everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

• 0:51George Kamel?

  Well, I'm puckering up over here because we're sipping on a blackberry gin sour.

• 0:54Rachel Cruze?

  The tartness is great, though. You love a tart.

• 0:57George Kamel?

  I like it tart and sour. Kind of like me.

• 0:59Rachel Cruze?

  This is you.

• 0:59George Kamel?

  We're gonna give you our rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode, so stick around for that.

• 1:05Rachel Cruze?

  You know, George, I feel like we do make assumptions about people from time to time.

• 1:09George Kamel?

  Do you make any about me?

• 1:11Rachel Cruze?

  Um...

• 1:12George Kamel?

  You probably assume I like Microsoft Excel.

• 1:14Rachel Cruze?

  I assume... You know what I assume, George? I assume we're opposites. I assume you probably are doing more socially than you want to admit on this show.

• 1:22George Kamel?

  Whoa. What does that mean?

• 1:24Rachel Cruze?

  You like to be like, "I don't have enough friends."

• 1:25George Kamel?

  Are you accusing me of having a social life?

• 1:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 1:30George Kamel?

  Rude.

• 1:31Rachel Cruze?

  I do. That's my assumption of you, George. That's only because I just know you so well.

• 1:34George Kamel?

  I appreciate that.

• 1:35Rachel Cruze?

  No, I just... Yeah, I would assume you have... I think your closet's probably, I would assume, very organized.

• 1:43George Kamel?

  In a perfect world. It starts that way.

• 1:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 1:46George Kamel?

  I'll take a weekend. I'll go, "I'm gonna really go to town," but eventually it falls apart.

• 1:50Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, mine too. That makes me feel better.

• 1:52George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 1:52Rachel Cruze?

  All right. Well, maybe my assumptions are wrong. You know what they say about assuming? It makes a...

• 1:57George Kamel?

  Jerk.

• 1:58Rachel Cruze?

  ...out of you and me. Yep. Makes a... out of you and me.

• 2:02George Kamel?

  I'm not gonna say... You're trying to get me to say it. I'm not gonna say it. My mom watches this show. Uh, no, but it gets annoying because, like, people assume, like, "Oh, he's probably a professional athlete," and I have to always tell them, "No, I did a little bit of ball in high school, but I quit." They always have an injury. You ever notice that? People are always like, "Yeah, I was about to go pro, but had an injury."

• 2:21Rachel Cruze?

  But I had an injury.

• 2:22George Kamel?

  Like, "Oh, you were that close. You were that close."

• 2:25Rachel Cruze?

  We know those people.

• 2:26George Kamel?

  We do. Do people make assumptions about Dave? Like, that Dave doesn't want you to spend any money on anything you enjoy?

• 2:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Okay, there was like a whole coffee thing. Did you see this? It was actually a show with me on it.

• 2:38George Kamel?

  You were on that call?

• 2:38Rachel Cruze?

  I was on the call, and it was like, you know, my daughter... How do I tell my daughter that, like, she does terrible things? Like, she just drinks specialized coffee all the time. And Dave's like, "Is that her only toxic trait? Like, is she good with money? Is she responsible? Is she a good human being? Okay, let her drink the coffee." And so many people clipped that. It was like basically...

• 2:58George Kamel?

  Use the audio.

• 2:58Rachel Cruze?

  Use the audio of it.

• 2:59George Kamel?

  Let's play it. Let's play it so the people at home can hear what we're talking about. It was gold.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  How can I help my adult daughter understand how much money she is wasting on specialty coffee?

• 3:09Speaker 03

  Ooh, you're not gonna like my answer. What's she graduating in?

• 3:12Speaker 02

  She'll have a degree in landscape architecture.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  And is she a good person? Is she of good character?

• 3:17Speaker 02

  She's a great person. She's smart. She's incredibly talented.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Her only sin is specialty coffee?

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I mean, it's not a sin. It's just that she's gonna be starting her independent financial life, and I don't think she realizes how much the expenses...

• 3:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, when she looks down and sees her Starbucks bill, she's gonna go, "Oh, my, this is wild." I personally wouldn't bring up the coffee ever again if I were you.

• 3:40George Kamel?

  See, Rachel, he can be the fun Papa Dave from time to time.

• 3:43Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Every now and then.

• 3:45George Kamel?

  And I like that he called out the mom, like, "Just let her enjoy her life. She's an upstanding citizen doing great."

• 3:49Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 3:49George Kamel?

  It's okay to enjoy it. She's on a budget, paying cash. She's not in crippling debt.

• 3:53Rachel Cruze?

  So good. I know. Not what we thought. Yeah, and some people assume that we just want them to buy crappy cars their whole lives, too. And they're like, "This is my Dave car."

• 4:01George Kamel?

  This is my Dave car.

• 4:02Rachel Cruze?

  This is my Ramsey car. And it's like, yeah, and we always laugh. It's like, "Buy the nice car."

• 4:07George Kamel?

  I do wanna rebrand. I think we should call it the Ramsey car is your bad car. The Dave car is your nice car.

• 4:14Rachel Cruze?

  No.

• 4:14George Kamel?

  What do you think?

• 4:15Rachel Cruze?

  No. The Rachel car.

• 4:17George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 4:18Rachel Cruze?

  I got my Rachel car. I mean, yeah, girl.

• 4:20George Kamel?

  That's a truly baby step seven, live like no one else.

• 4:22Rachel Cruze?

  Got that new minivan. I see you. I see you.

• 4:25George Kamel?

  The thing is, Dave has a lot of options. You know what I mean? Like, when I wake up, I'm not like, "Hmm, which car do... What mood am I in?" It's like a mood ring for Dave. I know what mood he's in based on what car he is.

• 4:34Rachel Cruze?

  That's what everyone says, especially over the part of the show. They're always like, "Which car did he drive in today?" Kind of gives the vibe of him.

• 4:41George Kamel?

  If it's in a beautiful sunny day and he's driving that big old Ford Raptor truck in, I'm like, "Oh, boy."

• 4:46Rachel Cruze?

  Look out. Look out.

• 4:47George Kamel?

  Who wronged him?

• 4:47Rachel Cruze?

  He's feeling aggressive. He's...

• 4:49George Kamel?

  He drives like the vintage Corvette. I'm like, "Oh, it's a good day? It's the day to ask for a raise?"

• 4:56Rachel Cruze?

  Talk to him about our commission structure, George.

• 4:58George Kamel?

  What is your mood ring? Is there a tell that you have? Like, I can kind of tell how your day is going or will go based on something about you?

• 5:06Rachel Cruze?

  Uh...

• 5:07George Kamel?

  Do you wear different clothing?

• 5:07Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe my hair.

• 5:09George Kamel?

  Oh, what's today telling us?

• 5:10Rachel Cruze?

  I had fun. I just wanted to be like a little spunkier.

• 5:13George Kamel?

  It is fun.

• 5:13Rachel Cruze?

  Thank you.

• 5:14George Kamel?

  That looks difficult.

• 5:15Rachel Cruze?

  I am feeling, under the weather, a tad bit. So I was like, "I just need something bright and fun to add to my day." So there's that. Yeah, if it's like a real black, real back slick ponytail, slick back ponytail, you know, "Ooh, she going on day three hair." So we just need to...

• 5:32George Kamel?

  Is that intentional? Like, day three with no shampooing the hair?

• 5:35Rachel Cruze?

  A day three would be not unintentional. That means it just didn't have time in the morning. Day two is intentional. I try to go every other day.

• 5:41George Kamel?

  That's smart.

• 5:42Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah. Do you wash your hair every day?

• 5:43George Kamel?

  Every day shampoo and conditioner separately. I'm not a two-in-one guy. If you ever assume I'm a two-in-one guy, egg on your face.

• 5:51Rachel Cruze?

  Are you a rinse-and-repeating shampoo guy?

• 5:54George Kamel?

  What does that mean? Like, I do it twice?

• 5:56Rachel Cruze?

  Rinse and repeat.

• 5:56George Kamel?

  No, that feels excessive for a guy who's already doing this every single day.

• 6:00Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, okay. That's fair. That's fair.

• 6:01George Kamel?

  But I've heard if you don't shampoo your hair for like a week or two, it's healthier and thriving.

• 6:06Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, they claim that, and now they're all backpedaling. I just talked to my hair girl about this, that the actual washing of this... Anyways, we could get into it. But apparently, they are now saying, "No." Like, they... Not that it should be an every day, but it needs to be more than the, like, week-long...

• 6:23George Kamel?

  So I'm on the right side of history.

• 6:25Rachel Cruze?

  As of today, but in three years, they're gonna change it again. We can't keep up.

• 6:29George Kamel?

  I did hear ankle socks are coming back, so...

• 6:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, good.

• 6:32George Kamel?

  Eventually, the trends all turn around, so I'm just gonna stick to what I'm doing, guys.

• 6:35Rachel Cruze?

  All comes back for you. I know.

• 6:37George Kamel?

  Well, speaking of trends, Ramsey is known for having the same principles for over 30 years now. We are old school, traditional approach to finance, gods and grandmas' ways of handling money. So I get why people jump to conclusions about us being sticklers, but most of us have surprising takes that are, you know, a little more nuanced, not typical black and white Ramsey stance.

• 6:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and the Ramsey show's a good spot because people call in with their scenarios, and we're able to kind of walk through them. And sometimes, our advice is way different than what, you know, someone would think. And we see it in the comments. So we actually pulled two clips that our opinions, advice, if you will, were a little different than what some of even the people commenting thought we would say.

• 7:18George Kamel?

  Shock the audience at home.

• 7:19Rachel Cruze?

  I know. So the first one was with me and Ken Coleman.

• 7:21George Kamel?

  Okay.

• 7:23Rachel Cruze?

  And yeah, this was a fun one. Here, you... Check it out here.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  My daughter is 22, and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt. She was able to get on the pre-sale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter, and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert. We got them for like $209 apiece. Good seats. So now I'm seeing these resale prices.

• 7:45Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, it's crazy. Oh, it's crazy.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  It's insane.

• 7:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  And so I told her, like, "Look, you know, we... We're trying to, you know..."

• 7:53Rachel Cruze?

  I know where you're going with this, Jill.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  "...you've got this student loan debt to pay down. Why don't you... Why don't we sell those tickets and you can knock down so much of your student loan that you'd be so far ahead?" She says, "It's non-negotiable. It's a bucket list item."

• 8:06George Kamel?

  And it's her money, right?

• 8:08Speaker 04

  No, it was my money.

• 8:09George Kamel?

  Oh, okay.

• 8:10Speaker 04

  It was my money. I paid for them.

• 8:12George Kamel?

  Would you be putting $9,000-plus towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets?

• 8:19Speaker 04

  I would not.

• 8:20George Kamel?

  All right. I wouldn't... I wouldn't resell these tickets.

• 8:26Speaker 04

  Are you shocked at his response, Rachel?

• 8:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, Jill. This is the Holy Spirit moving. I thought you were... I thought you were gonna be Scrooge.

• 8:32Speaker 04

  Rachel, tell Olivia... Tell Olivia... Please tell Olivia that we're going to the concert.

• 8:36Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, Olivia, you guys are going to the Taylor Swift concert. T-Swift.

• 8:40George Kamel?

  That's where you draw the line.

• 8:41Rachel Cruze?

  Make the memories. Make the memories.

• 8:44George Kamel?

  Now, if it was an artist that you didn't know or didn't like, would your advice have changed?

• 8:48Rachel Cruze?

  Me as the person that they called in, or...

• 8:51George Kamel?

  Like, it wasn't Taylor Swift. I don't know who you would not like in the music world.

• 8:54Rachel Cruze?

  I know. No.

• 8:55George Kamel?

  Nickelback. I don't know. Should I spend $1,000 on Nickelback tickets?

• 8:59Rachel Cruze?

  Um...

• 9:00George Kamel?

  Admit it. You were biased.

• 9:02Rachel Cruze?

  If she... Stop. No, stop. If she loved the artist, the person calling in, as much as she said she loved Taylor, I would just... I would be the same. Because, again, she's not going into debt for it. Like, I don't know if I could financially stomach, like, doing that. But yeah, so, yeah, keep the tickets. Go, girl. Go have fun. I'm telling you, the memories...

• 9:23George Kamel?

  I think you're on the right side of history with that one.

• 9:26Rachel Cruze?

  I do.

• 9:26George Kamel?

  You know, if we watch 100 years from now, your grandkids are watching.

• 9:30Rachel Cruze?

  Thank you.

• 9:31George Kamel?

  "That's so cool, Grandma Rachel." I don't know what they'll call you.

• 9:34Rachel Cruze?

  Ooh, Ray Ray.

• 9:35George Kamel?

  But I did this for my own wife.

• 9:37Rachel Cruze?

  Winnie and Ray Ray.

• 9:38George Kamel?

  Winnie and Ray Ray?

• 9:39Rachel Cruze?

  That's so cute. I just made that up.

• 9:41George Kamel?

  You think he's gonna go by Winnie?

• 9:43Rachel Cruze?

  He went by Winnie's little kid. Like, by his mom.

• 9:46George Kamel?

  Do you think it'll go full circle, old man Winnie?

• 9:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Yes.

• 9:50George Kamel?

  I don't see Winston as a Winnie as an old man.

• 9:52Rachel Cruze?

  As a grandpa. Pops.

• 9:54George Kamel?

  Grandpa Winnie.

• 9:55Rachel Cruze?

  People curly... Yeah, and one of my friends, Curly, is her dad's name.

• 9:58George Kamel?

  The problem is Winston will never age enough to look like a grandpa. You know what I mean?

• 10:03Rachel Cruze?

  What would he be, then? We... It's 'cause it's gotta go with the W.

• 10:09George Kamel?

  There's nothing. There's no nickname for Winston other than Winnie, right?

• 10:12Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Winnie and Ray Ray.

• 10:15George Kamel?

  I do like Ray Ray.

• 10:16Rachel Cruze?

  That's adorable. That is so...

• 10:17George Kamel?

  Grandma Ray Ray actually hits.

• 10:18Rachel Cruze?

  Grandma Ray Ray's gonna be fun.

• 10:20George Kamel?

  Jury's out on Winnie, but we'll let him decide if he wants...

• 10:22Rachel Cruze?

  What are you gonna be? What's your grandpa name? Grumpy?

• 10:25George Kamel?

  I think they're not gonna talk to me. I don't think they're gonna call me.

• 10:27Rachel Cruze?

  Stop. George Kamel.

• 10:29George Kamel?

  He's sitting in a chair at a senile...

• 10:31Rachel Cruze?

  George, stop.

• 10:32George Kamel?

  They're probably calling me Grumpy instead of Grampy.

• 10:34Rachel Cruze?

  I don't like the vibes you send to your elderly selves. Don't do that.

• 10:37George Kamel?

  No, I love my grandkids.

• 10:38Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 10:39George Kamel?

  They'll probably come to me for money, because then I'll be like, "Sure, go have fun." You know what I mean?

• 10:42Rachel Cruze?

  They should call you, um...

• 10:44George Kamel?

  G-money?

• 10:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I was thinking like a... I was gonna say dollar. Like, George Washington's face is on a dollar. You're George.

• 10:51George Kamel?

  Gio? What if I'm a cool grandpa? They call me Gio instead of George.

• 10:55Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, Gio's cool.

• 10:57George Kamel?

  I'm gonna be cool when I'm older. I know I'm not cool now, but I'm gonna age into coolness.

• 11:01Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh, Gio and Winnie. And she can be... Whitney can be Winnie, too.

• 11:03George Kamel?

  Whitney can be Winnie. We'll have two Winnies.

• 11:06Rachel Cruze?

  I know. It'll be sweet, George. And then when we actually are friends in real life, we can hang out. I'm just kidding.

• 11:11George Kamel?

  What'd you call your grandma? Do you have a name for your grandma?

• 11:14Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, Mamaw and Papaw. So southern. You know you're from the South if you have a Mamaw and Papaw. I know. Uh.

• 11:21George Kamel?

  That's sweet.

• 11:22Rachel Cruze?

  What was yours? Arabic?

• 11:24George Kamel?

  Yeah, teta is the Arabic.

• 11:25Rachel Cruze?

  Teta?

• 11:26George Kamel?

  Yep, and then jiddo.

• 11:27Rachel Cruze?

  Jiddo.

• 11:27George Kamel?

  That's Lebanese. If you go Egyptian, it's a harji, so it's giddo.

• 11:31Rachel Cruze?

  Giddo?

• 11:31George Kamel?

  Giddo or jiddo.

• 11:32Rachel Cruze?

  Or jiddo.

• 11:33George Kamel?

  So that's what like my daughter Mia calls my dad.

• 11:35Rachel Cruze?

  She does?

• 11:36George Kamel?

  It's so cute.

• 11:37Rachel Cruze?

  That is cute. Are you, take, keep your Arabic.

• 11:41George Kamel?

  Keep my heritage.

• 11:42Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, heritage with you, George.

• 11:43George Kamel?

  Gotta keep some culture in this family.

• 11:44Rachel Cruze?

  You should. What is Whitney? What's her family of origin? Do you know?

• 11:49George Kamel?

  Um, they're like Eastern European.

• 11:51Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh, y'all could have super cool grandparent names that came from your ancestors.

• 11:55George Kamel?

  She just went ma and pa were her grandparents. Part as simple as it gets.

• 11:59Rachel Cruze?

  I love it. I love it, you know? Too cute. Okay. All right, next up at the call with me again. Apparently I'm the fun one. Uh, so this is me and-

• 12:08George Kamel?

  The Rachel Cruze Show lives on.

• 12:11George Kamel?

  Fine.

• 12:12Rachel Cruze?

  Me and John took this call and it was a great one.

• 12:15Speaker 05

  I've always been the most frugal person my whole life and always invested. And even though no matter how much I have, like it's still hard for me, like I, every penny, I'm still like looking at when I'm spending it, even though I don't have to. Basically I have so much and I only spend it on like vacations, travel. So I was wondering like if I want to go on a trip like with girlfriends, see if I can cover them or um, but then everyone's like, nobody knows I have much money because I don't use it or anything.

• 12:41George Kamel?

  How much? How much is this?

• 12:43Speaker 05

  Over 14 million.

• 12:45George Kamel?

  14 million?

• 12:48Speaker 05

  14, yeah.

• 12:49George Kamel?

  Didn't see that coming.

• 12:50Rachel Cruze?

  Well done, Lindsay.

• 12:51George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 12:51Rachel Cruze?

  You want me and John to come on a trip?

• 12:54George Kamel?

  You could all go anywhere with Lindsay.

• 12:56Rachel Cruze?

  Vacation with you, Lindsay. How did you accumulate that much?

• 12:59Speaker 05

  I've always invested in everything and I shop, I make funds.

• 13:02Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, how old are you?

• 13:03Speaker 05

  54.

• 13:04Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, are you married?

• 13:05Speaker 05

  Not anymore.

• 13:06Rachel Cruze?

  No, okay, not, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kids?

• 13:08Speaker 05

  They're adults.

• 13:08Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, so your question is, you want to go on a girl's trip and pay for your friends?

• 13:13Speaker 05

  So they don't usually like have money, you know, they don't, they probably have money problems, nobody, you know, knows. So I don't know if it's awkward and weird and if they kind of don't want that and if it makes things, you know, weird.

• 13:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally, absolutely. If your knee jerk reaction, knowing your friends well, how do you think they would react? If you were like, hey, I have a bucket list, trip I want to take and I want my people with me and I kind of just want to treat everyone. Would that make it weird for your friends? You know your friends well enough. Is that, is that awkward for them? Would they be offended? Would they be excited? How do you think they would respond?

• 13:47Speaker 05

  I don't know. One might, you know, one might be like, oh, that's okay, you know, they just might feel awkward. But I think in general, I'm sure they would like it. But it's just weird because like, I mean, like they have no idea, you know?

• 13:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, they don't have to know all that. Okay, what do you think, George? You got 14 mil? You taking a bunch of friends on a plane?

• 14:03George Kamel?

  Like, because I know math.

• 14:04Rachel Cruze?

  I'd go on private jet if I'm her too. Like you fully should charter.

• 14:07George Kamel?

  She should charter.

• 14:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. I think she should go all out. 14 million?

• 14:13George Kamel?

  That's what I'm saying. I know math. She's 56, she has 14 million dollars. She's going to have a hard time spending that all. And she's single now. So yeah, absolutely. There's, I'm trying to think of a number that would be like too over the top for her to spend on this trip.

• 14:25Rachel Cruze?

  But I don't think people would even know what she spent. Like, let's just dream with her for a second. Say she took everyone to, what would be like a super fun girl, like Caribbean, Hawaii.

• 14:37George Kamel?

  Cabo?

• 14:38Rachel Cruze?

  Cabo, Cabo Wabo. You know, and you like rent a house. Yeah, let's play, let's do the Cabo thing.

• 14:42George Kamel?

  Private jet to Cabo and rent a house for a week.

• 14:44Rachel Cruze?

  Rent a house, you got masseuses there.

• 14:47George Kamel?

  Private chef.

• 14:48Rachel Cruze?

  Private, yeah, you go all out. Those girls are not going to know how much it costs.

• 14:51George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 14:51Rachel Cruze?

  Do you know what I'm saying? So like, go all out, but they won't know. So that's a good thing.

• 14:56George Kamel?

  Yeah, she could prob, I might guess it's 50 grand.

• 14:58Rachel Cruze?

  You know what I would do if I had that? You know how they have like the goodie bags on everyone? And you got the, oh my gosh, nice like super goop sunscreen. Oh my gosh.

• 15:09George Kamel?

  Like they do with the Oscars, where there's like luxury items in the goodie bags?

• 15:11Rachel Cruze?

  Drop like 400 bucks per goodie bag?

• 15:14George Kamel?

  I was gonna say 2,000 dollars each goodie bag. Let's go crazy.

• 15:19Rachel Cruze?

  George?

• 15:20George Kamel?

  You know, even more fun, we all get a Louis. We go and we just, we all get one. We all leave with a Louis.

• 15:26Rachel Cruze?

  Oh man, anyways.

• 15:28George Kamel?

  This is fun.

• 15:29Rachel Cruze?

  That's fun. That's fun.

• 15:30George Kamel?

  I can't think of a better use of money than enjoying it with your friends.

• 15:34Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, so our team also compiled a few classic Ramsey takes. May or may not be in the gray area, so sue us. But it's good conversation to be like, hey, look, let's look at some of these scenarios that could go one way or the other.

• 15:44George Kamel?

  Let's find the gray if we will.

• 15:46Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, well, speaking of gray, I got my new gray Cozy Earth sheets. I think I've told you about them.

• 15:52George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Rachel Cruze?

  I tell you, we ordered, oh, you guys, it is just, it just makes me so happy. Even more, I don't know why.

• 16:00George Kamel?

  Do you ever have to swap them out for other sheets? Now you have multiple Cozier sheets.

• 16:04Rachel Cruze?

  I know, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's all just so, it's just too good. Life is too good. So Cozy Earth. I mean, everything that they have from the cuddle blankets, your bath towels, your luxe towels, bamboo pajamas.

• 16:16George Kamel?

  The loungewear.

• 16:17Rachel Cruze?

  The loungewear. It's all so good.

• 16:19George Kamel?

  And this shirt I actually found on Cozy Earth.

• 16:20Rachel Cruze?

  Stop it.

• 16:21George Kamel?

  I don't think you can get it. It was an exclusive, limited time offer. But you can't look like me. But I love it.

• 16:27Rachel Cruze?

  I like it.

• 16:28George Kamel?

  The materialism. It's like the same material as their sheets almost.

• 16:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, so so nice. Oh my gosh.

• 16:34George Kamel?

  Feel very, I want to be on like Martha's Vineyard right now. I want to be summering in the vineyard. Is that so wrong?

• 16:40Rachel Cruze?

  Nope. Where, where are you summering?

• 16:42George Kamel?

  Hey.

• 16:42Rachel Cruze?

  So good. Well, check it out. You guys can go to cozylearth.com/smartmoney and use our code SMARTMONEY for 20% off. And if you see the post purchase survey, make sure you told Cozy Earth that you heard, heard about them here on Smart Money. Happy hour.

• 16:57George Kamel?

  All right, here we go. Ramsey takes, and we're going to rate if we agree or not. Some of these might be what you would think. If you didn't know Ramsey that well, you just want, oh, don't those Ramsey guys think this? There could be some of that in here. So here's the first one. No one can use credit cards responsibly. Full stop, no exceptions. It always ends catastrophically. Where would you rate this? So 10 being totally agree, one being I totally disagree.

• 17:23Rachel Cruze?

  I'm going like six and a half.

• 17:26George Kamel?

  Wow, I was gonna go four.

• 17:29Rachel Cruze?

  Well, because like the hard stop, no credit cards is the truth.

• 17:33George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 17:33Rachel Cruze?

  So we're at a five, the statement so far is at a five, half true. The other half is that yes, it's going to end catastrophically. It's horrible. No one can do all this stuff. And listen, we know people pay off their credit cards every month. Yes, people do that. We know.

• 17:49George Kamel?

  They exist.

• 17:49Rachel Cruze?

  But the problem is, we see the other side of the coin and it's like, it's just not worth it. And we know you spend more on a credit card than you would a debit card. All these things combined, it's like, just don't. But yeah, the drama that it's going to end catastrophically for every single person, that's not true. But I'm going to go six. I like a little bit of the drama.

• 18:09George Kamel?

  You do like the drama. I'm going for, here's my take on this. Yes, people can use them responsibly. Does it always end catastrophically? No. But I do think I can go even if, even if you pay it off every month, you're going to spend more than you would have with a debit card and you cannot fight me on that because you've not tried it. No one will take me up on the challenge. Use your debit card for a month or a year and compare your spending year over year. So I think uh, this is one that it's not for me. And again, we've seen too much. It's like if you're an ER doctor and you've seen so many people come in with scooter and e-bike injuries, you're like, my kid will never ride a scooter or e-bike.

• 18:46Rachel Cruze?

  Right, right.

• 18:47George Kamel?

  Because I've seen too much. That's kind of how we feel about credit cards. Can kids ride them without getting injured? Absolutely. They can wear a helmet, be safe, not go 28 miles an hour on a sidewalk. Do they always do that? No. Are we 1.2 trillion dollars in credit card debt?

• 19:01Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 19:02George Kamel?

  Take that.

• 19:04Rachel Cruze?

  Take that.

• 19:04George Kamel?

  That was a pretty good analogy. I'm gonna pat myself.

• 19:07Rachel Cruze?

  Way to bring in a real world, real world example, George.

• 19:10George Kamel?

  It's because these kids in my neighborhood.

• 19:12Rachel Cruze?

  I was going to say, tell us your-

• 19:13George Kamel?

  Freaking motorbikes.

• 19:14Rachel Cruze?

  Your Geo, uh, get Papa Geo over here.

• 19:17George Kamel?

  This is my old man on the lawn.

• 19:18Rachel Cruze?

  I know, Papa Geo.

• 19:19George Kamel?

  I so badly want to set up like a spike trap and have one of these kids flip over.

• 19:23Rachel Cruze?

  George.

• 19:24George Kamel?

  Because they're going to run over my daughter. We're trying to just walk on the path like normal human beings.

• 19:29Rachel Cruze?

  It is true. It's been, it's, but it's like a, it's, it's the talk.

• 19:32George Kamel?

  Johnny motocross.

• 19:33Rachel Cruze?

  It's like it's the talk of every suburban neighborhood in area. We get, we have signs now in like our parks that are like, no, nothing exceeding over 12 miles per hour. You know, it's all this stuff trying to get motor type vehicles off the road.

• 19:46George Kamel?

  My take, it should be illegal unless you have an actual driver's license.

• 19:49Rachel Cruze?

  I do, I do too.

• 19:50George Kamel?

  And even then they have to be limited.

• 19:51Rachel Cruze?

  So Winston, can I tell you, this is like Winston's, he has like, he's just so funny to me. So he bought an, he bought an e-bike.

• 19:59George Kamel?

  For himself?

• 19:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 20:00George Kamel?

  As a grown adult?

• 20:01Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Um, probably like three years ago, okay? It's pretty cool. It's got like a little thing. It had pedals.

• 20:09George Kamel?

  Okay, does it look like a bike or does it look like a motocross kind of bike?

• 20:12Rachel Cruze?

  Get ready. It looks like a bike. Well, recently he's decided, ah, I kind of like want like a, like something a little bigger and just like, I don't want to motorcycle. Because I don't think I'd let him get a motorcycle. Um, but something that's kind of like the in-between. So he went and got a, it is, it, it's what the, he said, the guy selling it was like, this is what the like 15 year olds. But now legally you have to, I think have a license or you should have a license to operate it. It is like a motorcycle, George.

• 20:43George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 20:44Rachel Cruze?

  Yes!

• 20:44George Kamel?

  That's what I'm saying. That's what the kids are driving on my neighborhood.

• 20:47Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, but they look like, they're almost like dirt bikes.

• 20:50George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 20:50Rachel Cruze?

  Do you know exactly what I'm talking about?

• 20:51George Kamel?

  I call them crotch rockets.

• 20:53Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 20:53George Kamel?

  You call them what you want.

• 20:54Rachel Cruze?

  No, crotch rockets can go on the interstate. These can't.

• 20:57George Kamel?

  Sure, but they're close enough that if that was on the interstate, it wouldn't shock me.

• 21:00Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, a little bit. Yes. Anyways, wild.

• 21:04George Kamel?

  And now he's driving that around town?

• 21:07Rachel Cruze?

  He just, he likes toys. I don't know.

• 21:10George Kamel?

  Where does he drive it? Just around your neighborhood?

• 21:12Rachel Cruze?

  Neighborhood and we have friends, all of our neighborhoods connect like where we live.

• 21:16George Kamel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:16Rachel Cruze?

  And so he can like drive to like my sister's house, Bill and Denise's, which you, we could take the golf cart, but.

• 21:22George Kamel?

  But he's by himself. He's not like taking the kids.

• 21:25Rachel Cruze?

  No, no, no.

• 21:27George Kamel?

  So it's just his time to get out, decompress, think about life.

• 21:30Rachel Cruze?

  I guess so. Yeah, it made me laugh.

• 21:31George Kamel?

  And be 15 again.

• 21:33Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe that might be it too.

• 21:34George Kamel?

  I respect that.

• 21:35Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, but.

• 21:36George Kamel?

  That's a good use case.

• 21:37Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know how I got off on that, but all that to say.

• 21:39George Kamel?

  Woo, it was for my amazing credit card analogy.

• 21:42Rachel Cruze?

  That was, oh man, all right. Where are we, George?

• 21:46George Kamel?

  I feel like such an old man in this episode. Okay, we're at prenups.

• 21:49Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, okay.

• 21:50George Kamel?

  Your favorite topic.

• 21:51Rachel Cruze?

  Prenups are unnecessary. If you're married, you're signing up to share finances for life.

• 21:57George Kamel?

  Ooh, rate your agreement, one to 10.

• 22:00Rachel Cruze?

  Six and a half.

• 22:01George Kamel?

  All right, I'll go seven. I'll one up you. I'll go.

• 22:04Rachel Cruze?

  A little bit.

• 22:04George Kamel?

  Price is right.

• 22:05Rachel Cruze?

  A little bit more.

• 22:06George Kamel?

  And here's the caveat, prenups are unnecessary for most people.

• 22:10Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 22:10George Kamel?

  That's where I would say where the gap is.

• 22:13Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. That's right.

• 22:13George Kamel?

  Most people that think they need a prenup don't.

• 22:15Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, because if you don't have a ton of money, not a lot of assets, um, and something happens, you're probably gonna end up splitting it 50 50. Now, if you come in with a lot of assets, um, then yeah, then that makes sense, especially if there's like a difference. You want to walk away with what you brought into the marriage. Like that totally makes sense.

• 22:35George Kamel?

  Or if there's a business.

• 22:36Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, the business stuff, yes.

• 22:38George Kamel?

  Awkward, complicated family stuff or family business.

• 22:41Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, yep.

• 22:42George Kamel?

  Second marriages.

• 22:43Rachel Cruze?

  There's a lot there, yes, for sure. And we got a call from a woman, I don't remember if you were on with me or not, it may have been Jade. And she called in, you guys, and she married a really wealthy guy. She signed a prenup. That basically she walked away and she was home with the kids and she, they divorced and she gets nothing, like nothing. He'll pay child support and like, you know, a couple of things, but like it was not, and so I was like, man. So even in that case, I think, and again, I'm not an attorney and I know a lot of this is, I'm probably speaking out of my legal terms. But even if you're in a situation like that, it's like at least the money you make during the marriage, because she brought so much value during that, right? Like it's one thing of like what I came in with, but like during, I don't know, there's ways to structure it.

• 23:26Rachel Cruze?

  And so if there is that discrepancy, like take the time to structure it well. And um, I think it's Dr. John Deloney that says, you're your nicest before the marriage.

• 23:36George Kamel?

  That's true.

• 23:36Rachel Cruze?

  Do you know what I mean? It's um, so.

• 23:39George Kamel?

  That is a tough one, but I do think there's a lot of caveats and I would definitely be understanding if, if both parties were in agreement and the spirit of it was right. And it wasn't this like, well, I want to keep what's mine and you don't get to participate in my wealth. That feels.

• 23:53Rachel Cruze?

  If that starts off the marriage, red flag to me. Like if that's the attitude, yes, yeah.

• 23:57George Kamel?

  So, but I understand if you're coming in with, you know, $5 million and the other person has nothing.

• 24:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 24:02George Kamel?

  And you have, you know, legitimate fears.

• 24:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 24:06George Kamel?

  But you know, the, and the other thing I hear about this from, you know, divorce lawyers, like, well, everyone's got a prenup. The government's got one built in for you.

• 24:13Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:14George Kamel?

  If you don't have one, the government decides, but in most states, the laws are pretty fair. In terms of like what would happen in case of divorce. Hey, community property, whatever you guys built together.

• 24:23Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 24:24George Kamel?

  Is going to be split half and half, which makes sense. It's fair. But I don't like it being lopsided where, especially when a female like stays at home.

• 24:32Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 24:32George Kamel?

  We get those calls where the stay at home mom is legitimately worried going through a divorce. How is she gonna make it? She hasn't had a job in 20 years and there's a prenup where the guy gets it all.

• 24:41Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 24:41George Kamel?

  That feels gross to me.

• 24:42Rachel Cruze?

  All right, next. If you have an unpaid home mortgage, you should not have a rental or investment property too.

• 24:50George Kamel?

  Ooh, okay. So let me phrase this, phrase this differently. If your, your primary home is not paid off, you should not be going out and getting rental properties on top of that. I'm a nine and a half on this one.

• 25:03Rachel Cruze?

  I was a nine. The only caveat, and I think I was up with Dave on the show when we were talking, someone had an investment property. And they were, and I can't remember the numbers. I can't remember the scenario. It was like one of the only times that Dave was like, well, I just keep it and put it here in the debt snowball. Or maybe pay off your primary and then pay, or it was something finagle.

• 25:24George Kamel?

  There's been times where we say, pay off the investment property first.

• 25:27Rachel Cruze?

  Because there's the tax implication, there's all this stuff and he was going to go back in to get real estate and where the, I don't know, it was like this whole thing. And actually I think I was shocked on that one. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe Dave told him to keep it. So every now and then, but most of the time, most of the time, you need, you need to sell it or don't get into it in the first place. We'd never tell you to go buy one by any means until you are completely debt free. But if you have one, most of the time you're not even breaking even on what you're getting for the rent and the maintenance and everything is usually a hassle. So.

• 25:58George Kamel?

  They usually have a lot of money tied up in it and it's not making that much because there's a giant mortgage attached to it. And it's stressing them out and they have consumer debt. So that's where I go, if you have three properties and you don't like one, it can clear your debt if you sell it. Sell it and be done. Like, and some people will hang on to it because there's like the sunk cost fallacy or it's like sentimental for some reason.

• 26:17Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 26:17George Kamel?

  Like, well, cash flows. I'm like, barely, you're paying 22% APR on this card over here at 30 grand.

• 26:23Rachel Cruze?

  Totally.

• 26:24George Kamel?

  So when, if you have a bunch of consumer debt, I'm almost always going to tell you to sell the investment property and just start with a clean slate.

• 26:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, yeah.

• 26:31George Kamel?

  All right.

• 26:31Rachel Cruze?

  Well, one thing I know that's not up for debate though, George, we've been debating some of this, is Delete Me.

• 26:36George Kamel?

  No debates there. I will not argue.

• 26:37Rachel Cruze?

  I know. To have a company come in and actually wipe off most of your information off data broker sites as they go in. Like that's where they're looking because that is where so much of the phishing and scams, spams, all of that is from, is everything. So getting Delete Me on your side is so important.

• 26:57George Kamel?

  And people don't realize it's an issue. They're kind of problem unaware until something happens. And so what Delete Me does, they go in, remove it, they send you the report and you go, oh my gosh, I had no idea after they scanned hundreds of these sites, that I was on 17 of them with all these different pieces of information, which then puts you at risk of spam, scam, fraud, phishing, all the stuff that keeps us up at night.

• 27:18Rachel Cruze?

  Yep. So make sure to get Delete Me because it is worth it. You can actually get 20% off your annual plan at joindelete.me.com/smartmoney. You know what? We will leave a link down below. So that's an easy, easy access point for you.

• 27:33George Kamel?

  All right, back to our Ramsey takes that we may or may not disagree with. If you're working the Ramsey plan, you don't have a car payment, period. Hmm. So I guess this is insinuating that we're going to tell you, sell the car, sell the car, sell the car.

• 27:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Um, I'm gonna go, I may go straight five out of five. I'm trying to think through all the calls that we say that you're okay to pay it off.

• 28:00George Kamel?

  Out of five now?

• 28:01Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe out of five.

• 28:03George Kamel?

  I thought we were out of 10.

• 28:04Rachel Cruze?

  No, I'm going, I'm going to five. I'm splitting down the middle.

• 28:08George Kamel?

  You said five out of five, which confused me.

• 28:10Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 28:11George Kamel?

  We're changing, we're just all of a sudden changing the rating system, really newly?

• 28:14Rachel Cruze?

  I'm so sorry.

• 28:15George Kamel?

  So five out of 10.

• 28:15Rachel Cruze?

  Five out of 10.

• 28:16George Kamel?

  You're in the middle of the road on this one.

• 28:17Rachel Cruze?

  I'm going middle of the road. Yes. Because I feel like half the time it's too much car. And then half the time they can pay it off in less than 18 months, which is kind of our baseline. Or that it's no more than half of your annual take home pay with all, everything you own that has motors and wheels. So I feel like we're about half and half.

• 28:34George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 28:35Rachel Cruze?

  Um, okay. I keep bringing up the Ramsey show. I'm sorry.

• 28:37George Kamel?

  It's okay.

• 28:38Rachel Cruze?

  It's in, it's in the head, y'all. Maybe because it's this episode, but just today, like talking to mom, her daycare, what are daycare costs? She was asking to lower the daycare costs by going to like a cheaper daycare. She felt okay about it. So I was like, don't put your kid in something you don't like. That's not worth it, but cheaper. But the only debt she had was a $22,000 car. So part of me is like, keep your kid in the good daycare and sell the car. Like you're doing all, you're making all these life changes.

• 29:03George Kamel?

  Prioritize the car over.

• 29:05Rachel Cruze?

  To keep the, you know what I mean? So that's the thing about the cars, like we, you keep it and it's fine. Again, if you can pay it off in 18 months. But also the extra work you're doing, if you have side hustles, the weekends you're working, the lifestyle you're cutting, do you know what I mean?

• 29:18George Kamel?

  All the things you're missing from day to day life.

• 29:20Rachel Cruze?

  Especially for a big expensive car. I get if you got like, you know, eight, 10 grand left to like pay off, like that, there's a part of me that makes, that makes sense. But if you're bumping that high 20, 30,000.

• 29:31George Kamel?

  40, 50, 60, we've seen it all.

• 29:34Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, but to like.

• 29:35George Kamel?

  Thousand dollar payments.

• 29:36Rachel Cruze?

  Stay in that, to just work extra to pay off, you know what I'm saying? Like to pay it? I don't know.

• 29:41George Kamel?

  But usually, like you said, if the car is a big chunk of their debt and it's a lot of their income and they can free up a big payment and go get a smaller, whatever, downsizeing car for a period of time, for six months, to get out of debt faster, I'm going to do that 100% of the time.

• 29:57Rachel Cruze?

  All day. All right, next, George, you should have kids whenever you want. Your financial situation shouldn't influence your family planning. 10, you agree, 1, you disagree. George and I have different takes on this probably a little bit.

• 30:09George Kamel?

  Oh, boy. Okay. I'm like a three and a half on this one.

• 30:12Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 30:13George Kamel?

  I mostly disagree, but there's, here's what I will say I disagree with.

• 30:18Rachel Cruze?

  I'm going six.

• 30:20George Kamel?

  Six is, that's healthy. I don't think that you should wait until you're debt free to have kids. But I do think there's situations where you're in a bad place in life and financial is just part of that. And I'm like, hey, you might want to wait till you have a little bit of footing. Like, it's kind of like a put your own mask on first. Like if you are unwell and you're bringing a kid into the world or a third or fourth kid, which is a lot of times what we see.

• 30:43Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 30:43George Kamel?

  He makes 40 grand a year, wife stays at home with the three kids, they got one on the way, they're in crippling consumer debt. You know what I mean? I hear ya. They got a bunch of toys and I'm like, let's just pause and.

• 30:55George Kamel?

  Just get a life situated a little bit. But I don't like this idea that, well, I want to wait till we're older and more financially established and out of debt. I'm going, no, have kids because you don't know what the future holds. You don't know how easy it will be to have children. It could take a long time. So if you want kids, you will figure it out financially. That's what I truly feel. Have kids whenever, you will figure it out. But is there a more optimal time where it's going to be less stressful and more financially feasible? Absolutely.

• 31:20Rachel Cruze?

  Sure. Yeah, I agree with most of that. I just know, and again, it's when you get, I mean, there's so many factors in here. But when, when you are in your, you know, mid twenties and if you have kids early, you're not at the peak of your career. And you probably are like, you know, money is tight.

• 31:37George Kamel?

  Daycare is a lot.

• 31:38Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, daycare, yeah, I mean, all of it. But I feel like those are the, those are the stories like that, that is life. Like, there's a little bit of like, you kind of push through the hard times and you come out the other side. You know what I mean? I don't know. I just feel like we can, we can be overly cautious and feel like we're going to be quote unquote, ready. And I feel like it's one of those things, you're just never.

• 32:00George Kamel?

  You're never really ready emotionally.

• 32:01Rachel Cruze?

  Like you, like if you're going to do it, do it. Yeah.

• 32:03George Kamel?

  But if you, I mean, if you're naturally like, hey, we're going to be debt free by the time we start a family, it's going to be easier to have no debt, an emergency fund, be building wealth for the future.

• 32:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, from the financial perspective.

• 32:13George Kamel?

  Investing for their, you know, future and education when they're young. Like, all of that's going to help you and them, but don't let it stop you.

• 32:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Love it. We'll just meet in the middle, George.

• 32:23George Kamel?

  We got there.

• 32:24Rachel Cruze?

  We'll meet in the middle.

• 32:25George Kamel?

  Kids.

• 32:25Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, next is when paying off debt, your emergency fund should never exceed $1,000.

• 32:31George Kamel?

  Ooh.

• 32:34George Kamel?

  This is one of the most hotly debated baby steps. People go, you want me to deplete my savings down to a thousand to use it towards debt payoff? And we're like, yeah.

• 32:43Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 32:43George Kamel?

  And some people call in and they already have some money in savings and they're like, I don't want to get rid of my five grand that I have.

• 32:50Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 32:51George Kamel?

  And there's situations where I understand. So I'm going to go five on this one. A middle of the road, depending on your situation.

• 32:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 32:58George Kamel?

  There's like a single mom whose kid has special, you know, needs or health concerns. And I'm like, great, have a little bit of buffer. That's okay.

• 33:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 33:06George Kamel?

  But there's some people who are like, could pay off the debt today, but they don't want to let go of the savings.

• 33:10Rachel Cruze?

  Right. Yeah, the volatility of the situation is important to note. Right. But I would say for, for most people, yeah, get it down to that thousand and, and, and do it. And I would say too, if you're expecting, we're talking about babies, we do have a time, the stork mode, that if you are paying off debt, you pause and save up money.

• 33:32George Kamel?

  Stack up cash.

• 33:33Rachel Cruze?

  If you're pregnant, just stack up cash. Yep.

• 33:35George Kamel?

  And storm mode, if there's a job loss.

• 33:37Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. So you see one coming, yeah, there's something happening. There would be a time, yep, to pause that and to have a higher emergency fund.

• 33:43George Kamel?

  So that's a good one. I feel like we're a little more nuanced on that one. But I do think it lights a fire under you in a good way to have a thousand bucks and go, I gotta get out of debt fast.

• 33:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. But I think I'd be higher than a five.

• 33:54George Kamel?

  You're more like a seven, eight?

• 33:55Rachel Cruze?

  I'd go seven. Seven fills it.

• 33:59George Kamel?

  I just think of that single mom, Rachel. Sue me.

• 34:01Rachel Cruze?

  So nice.

• 34:02George Kamel?

  Think of the single mom who.

• 34:03Rachel Cruze?

  All right, next. Mutual funds are the only long-term investment strategy we stand by. I'm going to go two. We like them.

• 34:12George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Rachel Cruze?

  It's not the only though. There's a lot of, a lot of other things. Index funds, we talked about real estate.

• 34:20George Kamel?

  That's what I think was missing from this is just real estate as an investment is strong in there.

• 34:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 34:26George Kamel?

  And I do think people think mutual funds and they only think actively managed mutual funds. And there's a time and place that we recommend index funds. Non-retirement accounts, great place to have some index funds.

• 34:38Rachel Cruze?

  Some bridge account, yep.

• 34:39George Kamel?

  Not mad at that. But you know, there's also things like high-yield savings accounts for short-term goals, not a good long-term investing strategy. So there's other pieces to the puzzle here, but I do think mutual funds overall, that's all you need. If you, if you said, hey, what is the only thing you need to build wealth? I'd say mutual funds will do the trick.

• 34:56Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm. Yep.

• 34:58George Kamel?

  That I would stand by. That would take it up to a nine for me.

• 35:01Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, we're on the opposite end of the spectrum.

• 35:03George Kamel?

  Well, it's like the sentences are like trick questions.

• 35:04Rachel Cruze?

  I know. You kind of got to see the nuance of the words.

• 35:07George Kamel?

  They're phrased in a way.

• 35:09Rachel Cruze?

  You were an English major, you know.

• 35:11George Kamel?

  Thank you. For one year, before I dropped out of school to work at the Apple store.

• 35:17Rachel Cruze?

  And drive Uber.

• 35:20Rachel Cruze?

  All right, well, one place that you can open up a high-yield savings account, as we were just talking about, is Fairwin's Credit Union. And so they are an amazing, steady financial partner that could be in your corner. You know, having a bank that shares your values is very rare, George.

• 35:34George Kamel?

  And it's hard to find.

• 35:35Rachel Cruze?

  Very rare, yes. But we love Fairwin's and they actually have a great bundle, the Smart Bundle. So you get a no monthly fee checking account, up to 10 high-yield savings accounts and the Ramsey debit card. And you, we found, we have a new one.

• 35:47George Kamel?

  I got the new one. So we have the original Ramsey theme one that says, debt is normal, be weird. Now there's a new one. Check this out.

• 35:54Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, I love it.

• 35:55George Kamel?

  I'll hold it up to the, to my camera here.

• 35:57Rachel Cruze?

  Live like no one else.

• 35:58George Kamel?

  It's the Live Like No One Else debit card.

• 36:00Rachel Cruze?

  We love it.

• 36:01George Kamel?

  Which is fun. So once you're out of debt and you want to make a different statement, it's a real conversation starter at the old Trader Joe's, which they'll start a conversation about anything.

• 36:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, they're, they're chatty. They're chatty over there.

• 36:10George Kamel?

  They're forced to ask you about your weekend plans.

• 36:12Rachel Cruze?

  So funny. But yeah, no, they, um, Fairwin's is amazing. So if you want to check out that Smart Bundle, make sure to go to fairwins.org/Ramsey and make sure to check out, yeah, the new Live Like No One Else debit card, because it's beautiful and could be in your wallet.

• 36:26George Kamel?

  Costs you nothing but a couple of minutes to, to get all that started.

• 36:30Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, man, George, what an episode. You know, I love, I love the gray.

• 36:34George Kamel?

  You do. You are very, out of all the sort of personalities that we have here, you're the most nuanced and understanding.

• 36:40Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I like the gray.

• 36:42George Kamel?

  And you like to, you like to discuss. You like the drama of it. You like the discussion. You like the nuance.

• 36:49Rachel Cruze?

  There's some dogma in life I really love. Like, give me some hard stances on some things. That's one reason, like, even the baby steps, I'm like, just go back to the plate. Like, it's all right there. Like, just do it, right? There are some things that it's, it works, it's great.

• 37:00George Kamel?

  It works. It's not broken, don't fix it.

• 37:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Rachel Cruze?

  But man, there, yeah, but there are time and places and all of it. But it is funny when we get calls and people are like, I have a very unique situation. And we're like, we promise, we've probably heard it before.

• 37:12George Kamel?

  Like, am I the exception?

• 37:14Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, you're not as unique as you probably think you are. So to have some guidelines in life that you stick by, I think is important. It kind of keeps you on the rails on any part of life. But there's nuances. It's like, you know, when you parent your kids, you're probably, you're going to parent them differently because of their personalities. Like, one doesn't like this consequence, one doesn't care about that one, one, you know, X, Y, and Z. Like, you can just tell they are different. And so there are situations you want to look at, and I think are, I think it's important.

• 37:42George Kamel?

  Yeah. And one thing I will say is, the reason we are so consistent on the show is because if I tell someone one thing, everyone listening is going to go, oh, well, that's me too. So I'm also the exception.

• 37:54Rachel Cruze?

  For sure.

• 37:54George Kamel?

  So we do have to be a little bit more cautious about what we say on the air, because everyone assumes that it applies to them too.

• 38:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 38:01George Kamel?

  So we usually err on the conservative side without as much nuance, because we don't want someone to take that as gospel and go do it and then go, well, Rachel said it to one person, so I thought I could do it too. No, that was a very different situation.

• 38:15Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 38:15George Kamel?

  Doesn't apply there.

• 38:16Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 38:16George Kamel?

  But I do think the consistent principles is what makes Ramsey Ramsey. Like, we are unwavering in that we're not going to do debt.

• 38:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 38:24George Kamel?

  Be building wealth for the future. Here's the way to do it.

• 38:26Rachel Cruze?

  Live on less than you make.

• 38:27George Kamel?

  You don't need to worry about all these trends and newfangled ways.

• 38:29Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Stop with the comparison traps. Like, yeah, I mean, there's, yep, those consistent things.

• 38:33George Kamel?

  Keeps it simple in a world full of decision fatigue.

• 38:35Rachel Cruze?

  And George, if I, if we're to toot our own horns over here, and it works.

• 38:39George Kamel?

  Toot away.

• 38:39Rachel Cruze?

  And it works. You know what I mean? Like, the amount of success stories that we've heard from people over and over from the financial side and even just the like, emotional, like, oh my God, thank God I took control of my money. I don't know. It, if it, if it wasn't working, that'd be one thing, but.

• 38:54George Kamel?

  And what's cool is, we actually built a free AI tool called Ask Ramsey.

• 38:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 38:58George Kamel?

  That will help guide you through all this nuance and help you figure out, is my situation different? It's based on all the proven principles, our articles, transcripts from the show. So if you want to check it out, you can do that at ramsysolutions.com or click the link in the show notes and you can ask your very specific, personal questions and get a very personal answer that is Ramsey-approved versus Google, which God knows what's going to show up there.

• 39:20Rachel Cruze?

  Who knows what happens there? Yeah. All right, before we spill the tea on our guilty as charged segment, uh, let's share the drink details, George, and reveal the rating.

• 39:27George Kamel?

  Let's. It's the old blackberry gin sour. Can you guess what's in it so far?

• 39:34Rachel Cruze?

  Blackberry.

• 39:35George Kamel?

  Gin?

• 39:35Rachel Cruze?

  Gin.

• 39:36George Kamel?

  Blackberry sour. So it's got gin, lemon juice, and a blackberry simple syrup and some egg white, which helps the foam.

• 39:43Rachel Cruze?

  It's really good.

• 39:43George Kamel?

  Don't be weird about it. People who judge the egg white, you just have no class. Egg white is paramount to getting the foam. If you are vegan, there are alternatives that can create such foam.

• 39:54Rachel Cruze?

  For our vegan friends.

• 39:55George Kamel?

  Google it, I'm not your mom, but you can figure that out on your own.

• 39:57Rachel Cruze?

  And you know, you can make it a mocktail, George. I bet you could put sparkling water in.

• 40:00George Kamel?

  Oh, that's true. Replace the gin with whatever you want. Because the lemon juice and blackberry syrup, that's what you need in any cocktail. This is just TMI. You want an acid. You want something that has that acidity to punch through. And you want something a little sweet to balance out the acid and the alcohol. So that's what you really need to make any good cocktail.

• 40:18Rachel Cruze?

  Like a poet.

• 40:19George Kamel?

  And then you have the texture, where's where the egg white comes in. So it comes out to $2.91. I think this is a worthy cocktail to make at home. I'm going nine out of 10 on this one.

• 40:28Rachel Cruze?

  It was, I'll go nine out of 10.

• 40:30George Kamel?

  I like, I think it's a very balanced drink. If I ordered this at a restaurant, I'd be very pleased.

• 40:34Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, it would be delicious, so.

• 40:36George Kamel?

  Get the recipe in the show notes, give it a try this weekend. If you're of age, if you're not, tell your mom to make you a mocktail. She'll do it.

• 40:44Rachel Cruze?

  All right, now it's time for guilty as charged. And this is where we ask each other a new guilty as charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take a sip.

• 40:51George Kamel?

  Woo.

• 40:53Rachel Cruze?

  All right, George, have you ever gotten combative in public over your stance on money?

• 40:58George Kamel?

  Oh, boy. Combative feels like we got into a real, like, heated argument.

• 41:03Rachel Cruze?

  Good story if you did.

• 41:05George Kamel?

  Yeah, there's a couple of times. So I do these man on the street interviews for my YouTube channel. And eventually you run into someone who wants to have a little, you know, spat.

• 41:14Rachel Cruze?

  Little banter.

• 41:15George Kamel?

  And so I ran into a guy and he ended up telling me, he wanted, he was telling me how great car leases are. Because he had a car lease and I was asking him, he goes, well, I'm a finance manager at a dealership. And the next 12 minutes was spent arguing with this guy.

• 41:28Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, no, George.

• 41:29George Kamel?

  In a very fun, like, entertaining, like, we're both talking to the camera.

• 41:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:33George Kamel?

  And he's trying to convince me that the, he kept saying, the everyday consumer, well, they can't afford a car. And how much are you spending on your paid off car just to maintain it? Well, hey, what if you had a lease? My lease is $502. And by the end of it, I think the audience kind of saw through.

• 41:49Rachel Cruze?

  Felt it, felt it.

• 41:50George Kamel?

  His bessery.

• 41:50Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, his bessery.

• 41:52George Kamel?

  But it was pretty publicly combative.

• 41:53Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 41:55George Kamel?

  People started like watching, like, it was during CMA Fest and people would gather. We were more entertaining than some of the country acts out there. What can I say? So that was the last time I remember it happening. It's happened like during a credit card pitch and I have to shut it down with the lady at Costco or something, but.

• 42:09Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 42:10George Kamel?

  It's been a while. I try to avoid those situations. I don't even, I don't like to talk about money unless you want my opinion.

• 42:15Rachel Cruze?

  A hundred percent.

• 42:16George Kamel?

  I don't do it unsolicited.

• 42:17Rachel Cruze?

  I, I think I'm.

• 42:20Rachel Cruze?

  I might be innocent on this one.

• 42:21George Kamel?

  You've never, yeah, I can't imagine you getting publicly combative.

• 42:25Rachel Cruze?

  I think I'm just like, no, no, thank you. If they get offered something.

• 42:28George Kamel?

  Do they ever recognize you on a flight?

• 42:30Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe like a timeshare person at a, um, like a hotel and they like,

• 42:33George Kamel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:35Rachel Cruze?

  keep asking and then you're like, No, I'm, I don't need one. I don't want one. Like, no, leave me alone. Um, but yeah, I don't remember like a crazy time. That would be a fun thing. If we challenged each other, it'd be like, you have to get in one public fight about money in the next 12 days.

• 42:50George Kamel?

  I would love to see you try.

• 42:52Rachel Cruze?

  Tell that story.

• 42:52George Kamel?

  I would do one every single day, like just for fun.

• 42:55Rachel Cruze?

  Just to...

• 42:56George Kamel?

  Yeah. I'd go to the Best Buy employee and like, hey, pitch me on the credit card. Let's fight.

• 42:59Rachel Cruze?

  Let's fight.

• 43:00George Kamel?

  This poor 16 year old's like, oh, my manager just said I have to do this. I don't even know what it is.

• 43:05Rachel Cruze?

  You see you come in. George feels so, so high and mighty.

• 43:08George Kamel?

  You're in the fine print yourself, bud? What's the APR on that? Let me quiz you real quick. That actually would be a fun show.

• 43:14Rachel Cruze?

  That would be fun.

• 43:14George Kamel?

  If I could do that with a crushing...

• 43:15Rachel Cruze?

  If you're on an airline and they always do their, their credit cards.

• 43:19George Kamel?

  Yeah, I was on a Delta flight and the lady recognized me as she was about to do her credit card pitch. And she was like, close your ears. I don't want to thank you.

• 43:25Rachel Cruze?

  She did? Oh, my gosh. That's funny.

• 43:27George Kamel?

  So that was a non-combative.

• 43:28Rachel Cruze?

  That's funny. That's funny. Oh, I love it. That was a good one, though. That was a good one. I may not, George. I...

• 43:33George Kamel?

  You gotta get in more fights.

• 43:34Rachel Cruze?

  I might claim innocence.

• 43:36George Kamel?

  It's fun. Cause I can't public, I can't physically fight anyone, except maybe a toddler.

• 43:40Rachel Cruze?

  With your mind.

• 43:42George Kamel?

  Yeah. With my mind. Don't come at me, bro.

• 43:45Rachel Cruze?

  You're there. You're there. So good. Well, if you have a guilty charge question, make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Kamel. We get them. We love them. Screenshot them and send them to our producer, Jenna.

• 43:54George Kamel?

  That's what we do. We're so good at it.

• 43:56Rachel Cruze?

  Now, if you loved this episode, you're gonna love our episode explaining the lore behind Ramsey's slang. We will link it for you so you can check it out and make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.