Drake Bell Overcomes Abuse, Finds His Voice & Beauty in the Pain: "I Went to Rehab Right Before the Documentary"

What happens when a child is accused of seducing an adult? When people you thought were your friends take the side of your abuser? Rehab Helped Drake Bell Find the Strength to Share His Story of Abuse From his traumatic past as a child actor to his battle with the stigma of being a "former child star", Drake Bell (singer-songwriter, actor, former Nickelodeon star) opens up like never before about what it was really like coping with the abuse he endured for YEARS before the QUIET ON SET documentary aired, and his feelings on the public's reaction to the doc. He shares how opening up to the public has been both painful and healing, how his rehab journey was the turning point that led him to finally share his story, and what it was like reading letters of support for his abuser from people he thought were his friends for the first time when the documentary aired. Drake Bell also discusses: - How his boundaries being constantly violated by his abuser led to him having difficulty setting boundaries with others later in adulthood - Why he never wanted to be a role model for kids - His take on the questionability of the kids' tv content detailed in the QUIET ON SET doc - Emotional toll the stigma of the "Former Child Star" has had on him - Impact of growing up with divorced parents & how it's shaped the way he co-parents with the mother of his son - Leaving Hollywood Behind?: Drake shares his deep desire to leave Hollywood and the freedom he’s found through music, which he calls his therapy - His unexpected rise to fame in Mexico PLUS.... Drake professes his love for Jeopardy—including an exclusive chat with Mayim Bialik about her hosting duties! We're kicking off an awesome new year of episodes with a HUGE episode you won't want to miss - TUNE IN to MBB NOW to start 2025 off right! Drake Bell's latest album, Non-Stop Flight: https://open.spotify.com/album/0t1FNOj7bYFbcO7813LXNe?si=6KxH48WDQVmKCMx-Vaz4dA BialikBreakdown.com https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ YouTube.com/mayimbialik https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTOocPnDh2YQZZwh86K2OxA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mayim Bialik?

  But I will never forget seeing you and wondering what it was like to sit in that fucking chair.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  First day I went home and I was like, what did I just do? This whole stigma of like, what are people gonna think? What are people gonna say? I didn't know about these letters of support, but when they unsealed them for this documentary, I got slapped with 41 letters from people I thought were my friends throughout my career and for years after. And I had been sober for like seven years. And I just kind of started spiraling out of control. And I finally hit rock bottom and went to rehab. Walking on the street, it's usually like, oh my gosh, can I get a selfie? Cool, thanks, no way, see ya. Now it's like people coming up and be like, can I just talk to you for a couple minutes?

• 0:47Mayim Bialik?

  I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:48Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:49Mayim Bialik?

  Welcome to our breakdown. Happy New Year.

• 0:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Happy New Year. You woke up today and your hair is no longer curly. I don't know what happened.

• 0:57Mayim Bialik?

  I just didn't shower. We hope everyone had a great holiday. We're very thankful that you are here with us. If you're new here, welcome. And if you've been here a while, thanks again for listening. This year, we are seeking to cover topics that are most important to you with big guests, with amazing experts. Our team here is working very hard to bring you information that can help you better understand yourself and ultimately how to live a better life. If you haven't already subscribed, we're gonna ask you right now to click the subscribe button wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching. It's free and it really does help us bring you more of the episodes you love. We're starting off the year with a particularly powerful episode.

• 1:39Mayim Bialik?

  It's a topic that has impacted so many people. It was brought into the public awareness last year with a shocking documentary that shook the industry and really rippled out over the whole world.

• 1:56Mayim Bialik?

  What we'd like to focus on is what's it like to think you know someone? Especially if they're a public person. You know, you think you know what they're like or what they're going through. Maybe you have judgment about them or the way they live their life. Maybe you envy parts of their life. But then you find out that you actually didn't know this person at all. You didn't know what their human experience really was. Maybe they've gone through something that you can't imagine. Maybe they feel trapped. Maybe they feel alone. Maybe they've been tormented, abused, thinking that there's no way out of their pain. Many of us are under tremendous pressure. And that can keep us suffering or hiding or living in a world of shame. If you're the person hiding, we're here to tell you there's hope. There is a way out.

• 2:41Mayim Bialik?

  Your life can get better and you're not alone. Our guest today had an enviable life and an enviable childhood to the outside world. However, he was going through horrific things that he didn't even know that he should share or seek help for. He didn't know for a long time who he could turn to. He didn't even know how to try and escape from it. And he's ended up bringing hope to millions of people. A lot of people might know this person from watching him on TV. Others may know him from his prolific musical career. And many of him may have first learned about him from the bombshell documentary Quiet on Set.

• 3:25Mayim Bialik?

  We're going to talk today to Drake Bell. We're going to talk about why he chose to break his silence, about the predatory abuse and trauma that he experienced for years while working on one of the most popular TV shows at the time, Drake and Josh. He's going to discuss what led him to film Quiet on Set, including the reservations he had even while filming it, which he ended up coming to terms with. We're also going to talk about what breaking the silence has done for him, for his career, and ultimately for his healing journey.

• 3:59Jonathan Cohen?

  He also shares really powerfully the emotional breakdown that he had and the recovery that he went through, a whole month of treatment, getting himself to a place where he could have the strength to get in that chair on that documentary set and share, the way he did, a really powerful interview.

• 4:19Mayim Bialik?

  And you may have heard other interviews with Drake or other podcasts he's been on. I have to say, we really chose to lean into a lot of the joy that Drake experiences as a musician, as a performer, as an actor, how some of those coping mechanisms of the love of our industry in many ways buoyed him through unimaginable tragedy that he was experiencing. Let's get into it with Drake Bell. Drake Bell, welcome to The Breakdown.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Break it down.

• 4:52Mayim Bialik?

  This feels like a good place to talk a little bit about sort of what's expected of a child actor, right? And it's, in some ways, not very different from what's expected of an adult actor, but children are easier to manipulate and get to do what you want.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 5:11Mayim Bialik?

  And, you know, part of, I'll speak about us. Part of our job is to be obedient, right? To like do what is, you know, required and not complain, right? So like, those are kind of some of the things. But I wonder if you can talk a little bit about sort of what you think about, especially now that you're an adult, and especially now that you're a dad, right? What does it feel like to look back and see, gosh, like, so much was expected, right, of us? Even though we love it, even though it's enjoyable. Can you talk a little bit about what you remember of expectations about you?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Well, I think that the hardest part about it is you're expected to, like, there's no expectation of... Being able to react like a kid or be able to like you have they're you know they're expecting from you what they're expecting from all of these adult actors that have been doing it forever and this is a job to them and this is you know and it's hard to to get that like oh this is my job you kind of more like oh this is my play like I get to go have fun and oh shoot like there's a lot of money riding on this and there's people are gonna get upset and you're in an adult world so yeah so I think the expectations

• 6:29Speaker 01

  and and and I think the the hard part too is you get a lot of kids in the business who it's like what it's their first job you know I I had a sort of a luxury move because when I started working on Amanda show Drake and Josh started making move you know I started working when I was five years old so I'd been on

• 6:52Speaker 01

  a ton of movie sets where it's like we're losing the light or we're down you know the we gotta move on like the this you know and so there's a lot of stress and producers getting upset or actors getting mad and storming on like I've had I've run the gambit of being on like stressful situation you know in stressful situations on set whereas I think like a lot of people that came from like the same background as me on like Nickelodeon or show working on television shows when they're kids is some a lot of them it's their parents first time on a set it's the kids first time on a job and the

• 7:34Speaker 01

  adults around aren't taking that into consideration of like dude you're not working with some actor who's had a director yell at them before like you're not working with some actor who's gotten in an argument with the producer over as a a decision that they want it like you know the producer the director wants it this way but the actor is disagreeing and they get into it and you're standing there watching two people just like scream at each other But that really becomes in Hollywood, you're just like, they're just negotiating. Like, it'll be over in a second and one of them will, they'll, there's, there's, oh, we're almost to the compromise. And there we go. Can we shoot now? Let's go. You know, you kind of are like, you get used to, you know, not that they happen all the time, but you're used to high-stress situations because, you know, you're

• 8:19Speaker 01

  shooting out in the snow, but it's supposed to be summertime, you know, and it's like, oh, it's snowing. We gotta wait for it to stop. Or it's, there's just so many situations where you, you have experience. But I think that there's so many kids who it's like, it's their first job. And if that's not taken into consideration, it's like,

• 8:39Speaker 01

  they just had an adult yell at them. Like, they don't know that that's like, you know, and maybe they didn't come in, maybe they were playing video games or hanging out with their friends last night.

• 8:48Mayim Bialik?

  Being a kid.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And being a kid, and they didn't cut, like, the script becomes homework, you know, and it's like, okay, so they came in and they, they don't have all their lines memorized, like, you, like.

• 9:02Jonathan Cohen?

  Kids are irresponsible.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:04Jonathan Cohen?

  My son just texted me that he slept through his exam.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that, that, there you go. And so you have, but then you have these adults who are like, what are you talking about? Like, now you have to go, now we have to wait for you to learn your lines? Like, why don't you come prepared? Like, and the kid's like, what? Like, that was homework, you know, and then there's like this.

• 9:23Mayim Bialik?

  Well, so I'm curious, what was that like to be a veteran? Because I didn't start acting till I was 11. I was that kid you're describing.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:30Mayim Bialik?

  Like, I was that kid who had to negotiate fights in my home, but not on sets, right? I hadn't been in a, an adult work environment. Like, I was that kid who, when I started Blossom, I was 14. Joey Lawrence had been acting since he was probably before five. Jennifer Anoy also started when she was super young. Like, I was the green one. I would, like, I had just been in Beaches, but I had just started acting, you know, I had, there, my, like, I was that kid. And I can't say that it, it felt, um, necessarily difficult, because it's kind of like a fish doesn't know it's swimming in water.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:06Mayim Bialik?

  You know what I mean? Like, it was just like, this is all what's happening. But I wonder for you, like, when you think about Little Drake, right? Like, what was that learning curve like? Do you remember any of it?

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Um, you know, I think also for me, like, there, I, I was always so fascinated with,

• 10:30Speaker 01

  like, vintage Hollywood, like, the lights, the camera, being on set, the smell of, you know, you walk onto a set, you smell the sawdust, and you're like, oh, I'm home. You're like stepping over cables, you're like, oh, this is, this is home, you know? And my parents grew, I grew up with my parents divorced. They did not get along, bouncing between house and house and, you know, and unfortunately, my parents were of the era, which I'm, this is kind of a blessing in disguise, because now with my, my wife and my son, you know, we're separated and we share him, but, I, I mean, I hate to say that I'm glad that I was brought up this way, because it kind of

• 11:10Speaker 01

  affects how I am, how the relationship is with my, with my, uh, son's mom. Is my, you know, I'd go to my dad's and my dad would be like, oh, your mom this, your mom that, your mom this, your mom that. I'd go to my mom's, your dad this, your dad this, your dad this, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm half him, I'm half you, so I'm like, so you're basically saying that this person sucks, this person sucks, so I suck? Like, it was, there's this whole, like, thing where, when I got onto set, and it's great, because now with, with my son, I'm always, I'm like, there will, you'll never hear a bad word come out of my mouth about your mom, ever, ever, like, even if I'm, even if we have problems, like, your mom's the best, cool, like, she's the best, you know?

• 11:50Speaker 01

  So I think there was this bit of, like, escape when I got onto set, you know, and I, I, I always was an old soul, so I never felt like I couldn't carry myself in conversations with adults, and I think later in life, with things that I had experienced and had to go through, was sort of, uh,

• 12:09Speaker 01

  that's, that I think is something that people tap into and take advantage of.

• 12:14Mayim Bialik?

  What do you mean? Like, the ability to?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Like, you know, there's obviously kids who are on set that-

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Aren't gonna be talking about, you know, oh, you know Jerry Lewis, you know why we have monitors? Because Jerry Lewis invented the monitor. And, you know, I, oh, man, oh, that Dick Van Dyke episode. And this is, and you, you like, the history of Hollywood. And, oh, when, oh, have you heard the story when, when this happened on the set of Chinatown? And when Bob Evans, it, so you're able to like, and those kind of conversations happen all the time on set where you're talking about like, oh, I heard this great story from the sound guy when he was working with Jack Nicholson. And da, da, da, da, like, I'm right in on those conversations and like.

• 12:53Mayim Bialik?

  This is a really interesting point.

• 12:54Jonathan Cohen?

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• 12:58Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:41Mayim Bialik?

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• 14:09Jonathan Cohen?

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• 14:14Mayim Bialik?

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• 15:00Mayim Bialik?

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• 15:41Mayim Bialik?

  Starting my day with this easy, health-focused task reminds me to continue to make healthy choices the rest of the day. For a limited time, visit drinkag1.com/breakdown and get a free immune support bundle, including omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D3 plus K2 with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/breakdown. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that MyobioX Breakdown sent you. This is something I've never heard you talk about, and I've never talked about it, but I relate very strongly in that if you are, for whatever reason, and I was called an old soul,

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:19Mayim Bialik?

  which I've been told by therapists means like you just have ancestral trauma and it's coming out. But if you are able to navigate with adults, it does give many adults a feeling that they're already closer to you.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 16:36Mayim Bialik?

  Because you're already kind of like an adult.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:40Mayim Bialik?

  Like, we can talk about things that I'm interested in, says the adult. So I kind of have them already.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:46Mayim Bialik?

  I've never thought about that.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can, I can.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Also say things that you don't say in front of a

• 16:54Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  12 year old kid.

• 16:56Mayim Bialik?

  And it makes the kid feel empowered, right?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, you're like, oh, well, like, I just did a scene with this kid and he just said, you know, F this and F that, like, you know, you're working on, you know, some movie where the kid's like in situations that, and then when you're off set, you're like, oh, well, I can curse in front of him. I could tell this dirty joke. I can tell this, you know, because it's like, they're not really. So there's the ones who I think, and it's a bummer because some of it's totally, I think innocent, like, there's no malice in it. It's just you're, you know, some of the adults are in a world where they're sitting at lunch and they're like, oh, let me tell you this funny story about how this person was doing this drug on set and then this happened and then this thing happened. They were crazy.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  And you're like, oh, wait, this kid like probably shouldn't hear this story. But it's also like they're not doing it out of like, oh, hey, and then I think there's the people who are like, obviously the predators in Hollywood who are like, oh, you know, I can just, you know, he can come to this party and his parents will feel okay because hey, he's just an old soul. He's just getting along with the older people like, you know, go ahead and drop him off and, and then that, those are the kind of people who, you know, basically see that and take advantage of it.

• 18:08Mayim Bialik?

  It's so interesting to think about the things that as child actors were encouraged to be.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 18:16Mayim Bialik?

  Uh, we're encouraged to be sophisticated.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 18:19Mayim Bialik?

  And we're encouraged to be wise beyond our years.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 18:22Mayim Bialik?

  And we're encouraged to, you know, a- adapt.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:26Mayim Bialik?

  And adopt all of these adult things.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:30Mayim Bialik?

  Such as being cool with people cursing or, okay, oh, they're drinking, but like, oh, it's work time, but I shouldn't say anything.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:38Mayim Bialik?

  Right? It starts like opening doors.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Or also what I saw all the time too is like, you're at a house party, something and it's like, oh, whatever. They're 16, 17, but like, it's almost like the cool mom, like, well, you're, you're not at a bar. You're like at the house. Like, sure, you can have some cocktails and like,

• 18:57Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Now you're, there's like all this underage drinking happening, but it's just, there's nobody batting an eye. Like, nobody's like, whoa, hey, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, it's like. You're nominated for a Golden Globe and you're 17. Like, yeah, I'm drinking.

• 19:13Mayim Bialik?

  It's almost like being mature is a gateway drug.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 19:19Mayim Bialik?

  Right?

• 19:19Speaker 01

  That's a good way of putting it, yeah.

• 19:20Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, there's no guardrails.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:23Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and you're encouraged to be those things. There's nothing, there's no downside to being mature, right?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  There's something too where, you know, if you get, which I'm sure you experienced a lot, but like when you get to a certain point and, you know, I mean, just think about what it's like to just roam through the halls of a high school. But imagine if that's on a global scale. Now you're like 15, 16, and you're opening up some magazine and I think like from a, like a, a male point of view is like, heart, young teen, heartthrob, who, what kind of girl are you looking for? What is it? You know, and then from like a, a female point of view, it's just all like,

• 20:08Speaker 01

  oh, look what she's wearing. Oh, she's, she's gained some weight. Oh, look at her. She's eating a, it's like a donut stuffed in your face. You're like, dude, I was just with my friends eating donuts. Like, and now it's on the cover of some magazine in like some negative light, like, but you're, but these publications have no problem either. Just like following these kids around and then objectifying them in ways where it's like, even if you think you're glorifying them, you know, it's like, well, now I have to, now that's the standard I have to keep up with. Now I have to, now if I even go a little bit to this way, are they gonna say that I'm no longer the it girl? Am I no longer the, you know?

• 20:52Speaker 01

  And that takes a toll too. And I think that that's not something that they prepare. I wasn't prepared for two things. I wasn't prepared for the whole like, you know, cause I mean, I never really, I was acting all the time and so I never really had like the high school experience. I did for like four months and then I realized that you have to do homework, you have to do like actual schoolwork. I was like, I want to go to high school, I want to experience it. And then they like started putting like papers on my desk and I was like, I'm sorry, I have my agents. You know, they're like, no cell phones. I'm like, oh no, you don't understand, this is a big deal. I really have to take this. So I got out of that.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  But I wasn't prepared for also, like, because I was working on a network that was geared towards children and young people was like, oh, well now you have to be a good example, like you have to, you have to like be a good example. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, you guys are the ones that are serving open bar at the, at the, at the, at the rap party and not caring if the cat, like who's, and then, but, but, oh, but I have to go out and like be a good role model. And I'm like, I don't know how to be a good role model. I want to get into trouble. I'm a kid, like I'm, I'm gonna make mistakes. I'm gonna do stupid things. And then it's all, oh, another child actor does this, this and this. And it's just like,

• 22:12Speaker 01

  you know, there's a lot, you know, it's a lot of that. And I think a lot of like trying to find your own and being like, I, I have to be a good role model. I have to um, navigate myself through this adult world, like and expected to not make any mistakes. And, and then I think too, you know, there's this like stigma of like being a child that like you're, you will always be child actor, like no matter how many movies you make as an adult, no matter how many shows you host, no matter who you, former child star.

• 22:47Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Drake Bell, now hosting blah blah. I'm like, I'm like, I did, ninety percent of my career was post eighteen. Like, it's just, but, so there's like all these things and expectations that are, that are thwarted on you and you're just like, I always think that, you know, If you're gonna get a kid onto into a position where they might become a success, you know, Malcolm in the Middle, like they're the star of the show. Like, they need to be sat down and be like, okay, so here's all the articles on this young actor. Here's all the articles on this young actress. Here's all this. Just go through those. Are you prepared to have that done to you? If so, cool. If not, we're gonna look for someone else, like.

• 23:30Jonathan Cohen?

  And there wasn't the same awareness, obviously, about the trajectory of that experience when you both started. It was like a totally different world.

• 23:37Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, that was the other thing.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  No social media.

• 23:39Mayim Bialik?

  I was gonna say, a lot of this stuff happened in private, as it were, and and there wasn't the same sort of like following. But I also know, and this was something that was, you know, an experience I had differently, because you were on a network that was essentially like a very well-run machine

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:57Mayim Bialik?

  for churning out content, right? And there was a specific formula that was followed, and there was a publicity form, you know, like

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 24:05Mayim Bialik?

  It was a much more protected world

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:08Mayim Bialik?

  from the outside world

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:09Mayim Bialik?

  of the industry in many ways. I had to walk among, you know, like, the Married with Children cast and like, you know, like, all these people who were like, you know, having a whole different kind of success than our little sitcom, you know, that was just kind of starting out. But the thing that was fascinating about the Nickelodeon world is it sort of created blockbuster after blockbuster without fail. And Dan was, he was a master, right?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Mastermind.

• 24:37Mayim Bialik?

  Of creating this formula that just like clicked with people.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 24:42Mayim Bialik?

  It clicked with kids, you know? I wanted to ask a little bit more about music, because you've used your music as a very specific vehicle. Meaning, you've chosen to like dive right into the middle of your life with this phase of your career. And I really like your music, and I like the sound, and I like I love the videos, and I know that they're not all the same, but the videos that I was watching. You're getting to use your acting even as you're singing. And I know that being a performer of the musical variety, you have to be presentational.

• 25:25Mayim Bialik?

  But I really love, I just, I love the variety of artistic way that you're kind of going about this phase of your career. But, you know, in particular, like Going Away. It's like a very explicit song, and I don't mean to read into things. But the lyrics are that you're done with this fucking city. You know, and that you really want to be someone else somewhere else. Why did you choose to be so explicit with your music and your lyrics as it relates to what's going on in your life?

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Well, with this album, I, like I said, I didn't sit down and say, "Okay, I'm gonna write this album." I had just gotten to my wits' end with a lot of things that were happening in my life. And I just, I don't write journals. I don't write in a diary. I write lyrics, you know? And that's like, when I feel like I need to just scream or get something out, I go down to the piano and I just bang it out. And the first song that I wrote for the album was I Kind of Relate. And

• 26:36Mayim Bialik?

  I like that song.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  I was going through such, I was just, it was so dark. And I was going through like, just so many personal situations that would just absolutely, I mean, you hear about these things happening to people and it just destroys them. Well, I had like three or four of them all happening at the same time. Like all at the same time. And I was just like, how? How am I gonna get through this? Like, how am I gonna get through this? And so I just like went down and I started just like, you know, "Okay, there's other people that are, you know, I'm not in this alone, like other people." So it's like, okay, well, you know, I kind of relate. I found, I found beauty in my pain. And I, you know, I can express it through music. And, you know, I'm running away from all the abuse

• 27:20Speaker 01

  and all the shame and all of this and other. And I was just like, okay, this is dark.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  But with like, I always put like dark lyrics with like happier sounding music. I like, love that juxtaposition.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  And so I kind of relate. I finished that. And I've always loved concept albums, you know, like Pet Sounds or, I mean Sergeant Pepper technically a concept album, there's it's not really, there's not really a through, a through line with that, but like, for example, Pet Sounds is all about teenage love. Then, you know, this young teenager feeling like he needs to get out on his own and experience the world and then later on in the album, going back to like his first love and saying like, you know, oh, where did your long hair go? Where is the girl I used to know? Where is the? So it's kind of this whole, there's one through like

• 28:18Speaker 01

  thought throughout the whole album, you know? Um, and so I kind of thought, oh, we should make this kind of concept album that really takes you through like three acts of my life, you know, where like the escape, the wanting to get out, the, the pressure being too much. Then, you know, looking and searching for love and then finding love or maybe remembering a past love and then um, the joy and triumph and hopefulness of the future, trying to get through all of this darkness and then so it kind of really, and then I was like, oh, it could be like on an airplane and we could take you through this musical journey through the skies and guide you through. You hear the flight attendants and the captain and there's turbulence and then the hard songs come on and then

• 29:02Speaker 01

  you know, we dim the cabin lights and bring you blankets and pillows and then all these like softer singer songwriter songs come on and then as we're coming in for the landing is like the hopeful and joyous like, you know, positivity for the future. And so I started constructing that whole thing and it became

• 29:19Speaker 01

  really the most like introspective autobiographical record. Because it took me three and a half years to make the record. You go through literally like lyrics like, I'm moving my wife and son out to the islands. To basically like get away, like I'm gonna go, we're gonna move out into some, you know, middle of Hawaii somewhere and

• 29:38Speaker 01

  just live a nomadic life and be out of this Hollywood stuff. All the way to a song where it starts with like, "I messed up my life. I lost my son and my wife." You know, so you literally have this whole going from, "Get out of here. Take my family, this and that," to, "Oh, now he's lost his fam-- like, he succumbed to, you know, the pressure," or whatever it was. And then, you know, getting through that, finding love, having a good relationship with your family, having a good relationship with your kids, having, and then having this hopeful thoughts for the future and, so yeah, so you have, it runs the whole gambit of like,

• 30:19Mayim Bialik?

  I can't.

• 30:20Speaker 03

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• 30:50Mayim Bialik?

  I don't but wonder, you know, when you think about some of these individual songs, right? And then the arc of this album. What would have happened to Drake Bell if you couldn't write this album?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, honestly, it's therapy. It's, I think that's why it took also so long to put out, because it just became, you know, I'd write a song and I'd go, "Oh, no, this has to go on." Like, this is telling the story. Like, if this is what we're really doing, like, this has to go on the record. This has to go on the record. And I was traveling so much, so I'd be recording in different studios and sending tracks to this place and that place, and doing vocals here in this country, and doing guitars and stuff, and sending stuff, getting it all, it was like a huge puzzle. But it really like--

• 31:38Speaker 01

  You know, and I don't know, there's also something to listening to the album that's therapeutic as well, like just sitting back and putting the headphones on. And because it's so many, so many songs, there's it very often I'm listening to the record and I forget. Like, oh, I forgot about this song. Oh, this song's the one that's next. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Listen to that lyric. And then you always write songs and intend for them to have a whatever meaning you're trying to write at that moment. But then you always go back and you're like, whoa, that lyric could mean total, something totally different. And whoa, that could be interpreted in a completely different way.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  And then you actually like, take things from things that you've written, like hearing it for the first time or taking it a different way. And so it's super therapeutic.

• 32:28Mayim Bialik?

  I wonder if you can help us with some of the timeline.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:31Mayim Bialik?

  Because many of us, you know, kind of got to rethinking about you in a new way when Quiet on Set came out.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:41Mayim Bialik?

  But you obviously had been going through all of the things that the documentary talked about for years.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:49Mayim Bialik?

  And I'm wondering if you can fill us in on when sort of the writing began? And in what stage of your recovery, as it were, from all of the things that had happened to you? Where did it fit in therapeutically? Like, what is the timeline? Because like I said, so many of us, when did the documentary come out?

• 33:10Speaker 01

  It was April of this year.

• 33:11Mayim Bialik?

  It came out, right.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  March, March, March.

• 33:13Mayim Bialik?

  Right. So it came out in, but this had been going on. And, um, yeah, without naming names, like some of us had been hearing about echoes of it before and choosing not to comment about it.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:28Mayim Bialik?

  But give us a little bit of the timeline.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  They, they had been approaching me for quite a while. Um, and there was another documentary that came out a while ago that was dealing with the same subject matter and they reached out to me and asked me to be a part of it. And I was just not in a place where I wanted to talk about this. I was busy working. I just, it was just like. No, no, thanks. And they sent me back like the most tardy email, just like, it's people like you, why Hollywood won't get fixed and better. I'm like, people like me? What are you talking about? I'm like, go after the people who did it. Like, don't send me a message like, well, you think this is a little triggering, this email? Like, so I started, I was like, okay, they're obviously just for a cash grab, or they don't care about,

• 34:15Speaker 01

  you know, victims. They're just, like, how could you literally send me like, a scathing email because I don't want to be a part of your little movie, like, whatever? So I was very on guard. So when the producers from Quiet on set reached out, I was like, absolutely not, absolutely not. They, uh, I forget how they got my phone number, but I think somebody reached out to me and was like, someone's trying to get ahold of you. So I okayed. It wasn't like they, like, got my number and texted me. They, I, I think I okayed it. Like, someone was like, oh, someone's trying to get ahold of you, whatever. So they started texting me and we were like, kind of talking over text and I was just like, I'm not interested. Like, this is not something I would ever want to be a part of.

• 34:59Mayim Bialik?

  Why? Can you, can you tell us why?

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Just because there's like this whole stigma of like, you know, what are people gonna think? What are people gonna say? How am I gonna be viewed? I think especially, I mean, I don't want to say especially, but this is only talking from my experience, but, you know, as a guy too, it's like, I don't wanna like, uh, there's like so many, you know, and which eventually I was sort of correct because I didn't know about these letters of support. I mean, knew they existed, but I was expecting like, you know, close friends, family, like, of course, whatever. But when they unsealed them for this documentary, I got slapped with a 41 letters from people I thought were my friends throughout the, throughout my career and like, for years after, that I worked with, that

• 35:45Speaker 01

  were my frie- and I, and I'm reading these letters that are like,

• 35:48Mayim Bialik?

  And these are people going out of their way to?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Out of their way to say like, oh, my gosh, it's Drake's fault. He tempted this, this man. He, Drake's an overtly blah, blah, blah. He's, he's this and that. And I'm like, dude, I was 14. I'm like, I'm a, I don't even like, I don't even know what this is. Like, I just was hanging out. Like, what I was saying, like, oh, you go to these parties. You're just like hanging out. You don't think, like, your mind's not even there. I hadn't, like, my first girlfriend at this time. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't some like, Teen heartthrob actor, like, like, making my way through Hollywood with all these chicks. Like, I was so, like, in that part of the world, I was like, I'm still, like, trying to get to first base, like, you know what I mean? Like, and, and, and, and the things that these letters say are just like,

• 36:34Speaker 01

  like, as if I was just some, like, heathen, like, jumping on the laps and grabbing and doing that. I was just like, this is unreal, this is unreal.

• 36:43Mayim Bialik?

  I also just wanna make-

• 36:44Speaker 01

  All deflecting, you know?

• 36:45Mayim Bialik?

  Well, yeah, and I just wanna make space for the fact that you should not have to defend any behavior that you had. Meaning, like, it was putting you in this position to have to defend your behavior when you were a vulnerable child.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:01Mayim Bialik?

  And, and I think, like, that's, I think that's what so many of us found so disturbing, was the accusation that a child could seduce-

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 37:12Mayim Bialik?

  An adult.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 37:14Mayim Bialik?

  But I do think it's really, it does get underlined because you are male.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:20Mayim Bialik?

  And we are not used to hearing these things, and it brings up different levels of discomfort. Because it should be incredibly uncomfortable no matter what.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:29Mayim Bialik?

  But it does, it, it brings up different levels of this. So, you didn't wanna participate.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 37:34Mayim Bialik?

  So what changed?

• 37:36Speaker 01

  My son's mom was kind of getting over LA, she was, like, done, she's, like, you know, it was, like, pandemic had hit, so she went to Florida with my son, and, um, I stayed back and was gonna, like, pack up and all this stuff, and, and I started to kind of spiral, and I was in, you know, I was home alone, and I started to just kind of, just, you know, I think maybe being asked to do the documentary and knowing that something was gonna come out, and, you know, it just, I lost it, you know? And I'd been sober for, like, seven years, um, like, hadn't drank and nothing, and I, uh,

• 38:22Speaker 01

  you know, go to what works, and I just kind of started spiraling out of control, and

• 38:28Speaker 01

  my, not, you know, not-

• 38:31Speaker 01

  You know, getting crazy or anything, just too much was going on in my head. And I was just like, how am I going to get through this, you know? So I finally hit rock bottom and um went to rehab. And I went to this great place in Nashville and uh for the first time, I, you know, I, I was kicking and screaming and knew I, I knew I should go, but I didn't want to go. And then I was like, what am I doing? Then I get on the plane and I'm like, oh, my God, like, what is going, you know?

• 39:00Speaker 01

  So finally I got there and it was like this beautiful, just, just trees everywhere and it was just, you know, it's Nashville, it's like, I'm from LA, like, you know, it's just this huge fields and grass and I finally took a deep breath. I like got out and I walked, I got my, it was so funny. I was in, I was getting my blood drawn and this really sweet nurse in there, you know, she, I, they take your picture. And I, they printed it out for my little badge tag and I look at the badge tag and I go, and she's like drawing my blood and I go, oh, my God, is that what I look like?

• 39:35Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Why do I look like that? And she goes, honey, because you're in rehab.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  It's like, oh, my God.

• 39:43Mayim Bialik?

  What did you say?

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Terrible. I just look, I was like, just, I looked like a mess. I mean, I didn't look like a mess. I mean, I wasn't really like, I didn't really go to rehab because I was like, oh, I can't stop doing drugs or alcohol or something like that. It was really like, if I don't go somewhere, like, I mean, not that I'm going to hurt myself or anything. I just, I was, I didn't know. I didn't know what the heck. Like, I was like, I'm never going to work again or I'm not, I'm going to destroy all of my relationships. Like, I'm just, I don't know what.

• 40:12Mayim Bialik?

  It might occur to me to hurt myself in that situation. I just want to give you the leeway to be like.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 40:17Mayim Bialik?

  It's with what was going on in your head, that's unmanageable.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  No clue, unmanageable. That's basically a great word for it. It was just unmanageable. So I, uh, so I went and, and that's what I saw when I looked at my badge. I was just like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. But she was so, I'm like, why do I look like it? Because you're in rehab. That's why you look like that. It's okay, you're going to get better. Uh, but so I spent a month there and it was the first time that I'd I'd done a lot of like one-on-one therapy and things, but it was the first time that I'd been in group settings where people are telling stories and telling their life and you're just like, whoa, okay. Not the only one, like, alright, that's, okay, well, I'll totally share my story because that story I just heard is whoa. Like, alright, like, I thought I had it bad, like, okay, I'll share, you know, and then you're getting it off your chest, you're getting it off your chest, you're

• 41:04Speaker 01

  there's no internet, there's no phones, there's no access to the outside world, you're literally on lockdown from eight AM, you go to class and you're in class, different classes and therapy sessions and all this stuff, all the way up until eight, nine o'clock at night when you hit your bed and the lights are out and you just do it all over again, every single day. And so I wasn't on Twitter, reading crap and reading things about me that I that are devastating and it is just I was completely removed. And so when I came out of that, I was like, oh, this is great, you know, and so I

• 41:39Speaker 01

  had now, at this point, talked a lot about what I'd gone through in my past and and in a setting that wasn't just one-on-one with my therapist and, you know, and getting a lot of support and having people around me that just wanted me to wanted to see me get better. No ulterior motives of, you know, nobody had their phones, nobody's trying to take selfies with you, nobody could call home and be like, hey, you know, who's on, you know, who's in my cabin, like, we all just were on this level, you know, it's uh, this whole level field and everyone was it was this camaraderie and and and just

• 42:18Speaker 01

  giving atta boys and seeing people grow and get better and seeing people lose their shit and, you know, and not and and reacting in a way that's like more loving and understanding and, you know, there's there, I mean, cause obviously there's people dealing with all different sorts of things, so, you know, you'll see one of the nicest guys in your cabin all of a sudden blow up and you're just like you know, in a normal setting, you're like, okay, that guy needs to leave, I don't, we can't be around it, but in this, in this setting, it's more of you know, we all need to gather around this guy right now, like, he's hurting, like, we need to help him and bring him, you know, get him back down to earth and so we, it was just like all done from a different angle than what would happen in like the real world, you know?

• 43:02Speaker 01

  And so when they reached out to me again, I was like

• 43:06Speaker 01

  You know, if I'm going to, and I think a lot of people,

• 43:13Speaker 01

  what was happening with everyone was after someone shared some wild story that you couldn't even imagine, you know, and

• 43:24Speaker 01

  afterwards, people would all go up and support each other like, hey, man, thank you for sharing. Like, that was, that just like, you know, I had this thing, like, I've been wanting to talk about my relationship with my dad. You know, and, you know, you lost your dad and I'm like, I, like, I, my dad's still here, like, I need to mend that because I, like, even though I have this with my dad, like, you don't have an opportunity to even fix stuff with your dad because he's gone, or whatever it is, like, it all was like supportive. And people coming up to me and saying the same thing, you know, like, oh, that story really helped me, like, oh, my gosh, you know, you've had such, like, I love when you share, because it's like, I, I, I share such similar situ, you know, situations in my life.

• 44:04Mayim Bialik?

  Did it also help hearing from other men?

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 44:06Mayim Bialik?

  Who had been victimized?

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Totally, totally. And, and that's the thing. I mean, I, I would sit there and hear these stories that were like, you couldn't even imagine that these things happen in real life. Like, you're like, that, you can't even put that in a movie. Like, that's, that's too harsh to even, like, that would have to only be in a book, like.

• 44:25Mayim Bialik?

  But you understand that when a lot of people heard your story, many of us felt that way.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:30Mayim Bialik?

  How could this happen?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:32Mayim Bialik?

  How could this happen to a person? So the fact that, like, a group setting allowed that opening, I think, you know, the joke I always make is like, it's good to have friends who are more fucked up than you.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:43Mayim Bialik?

  Because you can always like, feel like, oh, but at least.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 44:45Mayim Bialik?

  But also, it's about perspective, meaning some people would hear your story and say, even though it may not have the more, the most horrific details like this other story.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:55Mayim Bialik?

  The context in which what happened to you happened to you might for some other people be like, oh, my God.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 45:02Mayim Bialik?

  How do you recover from that, right? That's that interchange of information that happens in therapy and especially in a group.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that that had a lot of impact on me deciding to actually do the documentary because I was like, okay.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Hmm. If I'm ever gonna tell my story, what is it gonna be on a podcast? Is it gonna be like in an interview that some people read in Newsweek? Like, you know, if it's gonna be, if I'm going to get my story out, then maybe it should be on something that obviously, we did not know what the impact and this thing was gonna be.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  The success that it was gonna have. It's weird.

• 45:41Mayim Bialik?

  It's a weird word.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I know.

• 45:42Mayim Bialik?

  I feel weird about using that too.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Weird word to use. But it's impact. Impact, that's, that's, that's a better word. What, what kind of impact that it would have?

• 45:50Mayim Bialik?

  Well, there were really two components also. And I wonder if you knew that when you went into the documentary. There were two components. There was kind of like the climate on set.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:58Mayim Bialik?

  Component. And, you know, I have, I'm sort of a documentary aficionado. It's like sort of my jam. And what I felt about Quiet on Set was that it was really stretched out.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:13Mayim Bialik?

  Like, it kinda got like, like taffied out. Right? Like, it felt a little bit like that taffy machine. And like, I feel like we could have communicated the same things in, in a shorter. But not, you know, it's not for me to say. But there was kind of a whole part of the documentary. And then there was you.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:32Mayim Bialik?

  And, you know, I'm amazed our paths have not physically crossed. You know, like, I knew a lot of people that you knew and, you know, anyway. But, um, I will never forget the moment in that documentary when you sat down in that chair. First of all, you're very handsome, I think. And you have beautiful hair. And, you know, you have this kind of like

• 46:54Mayim Bialik?

  this way, you are, you're very kind of, uh, very like Rat Pack. You know, you kind of like, you glide into that set. And you have a presence about you, but I will never forget

• 47:07Mayim Bialik?

  seeing you and wondering what it was like to sit in that fucking chair.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Brutal.

• 47:11Mayim Bialik?

  Brutal.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Brutal. It was so weird.

• 47:15Mayim Bialik?

  I really wanted to talk to you. I wanted to know what that was like.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  The first time that I ever said anything publicly. And there's a camera in my face. I mean, I was, it was. It was brutal and I didn't know how in-depth I was gonna get like, I mean, it was like pulling teeth to even get me to be a part of it. And then it was shot in two days.

• 47:32Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  And the first day I went home and I was like, what did I just do? What did I just do? I called the producers. I was like, I'm sorry. I don't want to be a part of this anymore. I'm losing my mind. Like, I'm, I, you know, I.

• 47:47Mayim Bialik?

  What did they say?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  They, they were, they were.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  It's obvi- it goes back to that.

• 47:55Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Which is kind of a bummer because it does go back to that sort of like.

• 47:59Mayim Bialik?

  They have a story to tell.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  They have a story to tell. They have a job to do. They've got money on the line. They've got this whole thing. And so, but they did.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Work it out well where it wasn't, you know, when I, they, they were like, well, just look, come down. We'll just go upstairs and we'll just talk until you either feel comfortable or you decide not to do it, but would you mind just coming down and like us? Discussing with you and talking it through with you.

• 48:26Mayim Bialik?

  What does that feel like in your body? When you don't wanna go back and you do. And I'm not asking to disparage the producers or anything like that.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:38Mayim Bialik?

  I'm curious with what you know about your process of what it feels like to be torn between things. What did that feel like in your body?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  I mean, it's a completely physical reaction. You have, there's, it's, it's really a, it's like fight or flight, fight or flight, fight or flight, fight or flight, fight or flight. And you're going, it's like just going through it like. Because there's.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  So much going on in your mind where you're thinking. You're, you're, you're used to.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I just got this phone call that really upset me or I, something happened in my life and I'm really, really upset. But I have a scene that I have to shoot in 10 minutes that I have to be laughing and having a great time and.

• 49:26Mayim Bialik?

  That's called compartmentalization.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you're just like. And then you're like, gets a set and you're like, all right, let's do it, you know? And you're just like in your head. So you, so there, I'm so used to that.

• 49:35Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  So there was that as well as like.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  But wait, this is like your story. This is your life. This is what's happened to you. Like, you're telling something that you have held inside of you forever. And only people close to you know about it.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  And 41 other people who wrote letters of support. And an entire courtroom full of people. But the, yeah, it's this whole physical tug of war. That you're going, okay, do I, do I just, do I just suck it up and like get through it? Because, you know, the cameras and lights are already set up. The crew's already here. And then you're like, wait a minute. Bro, you're not just acting. Like, this is your story. Like, you need to really think about and figure out, like, is this something you want to do? Is this, you're not just getting through the day. You know, this is not just, you know.

• 50:28Mayim Bialik?

  Did you know the impact it would have in terms of, I don't mean the, I really would love to kind of like set aside all the like, oh my God. And all the gossipy stuff and all the stupid stuff. I want to set that aside.

• 50:41Mayim Bialik?

  What you did was you gave voice to an experience that people have all over the world all the time.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:50Mayim Bialik?

  And not just famous people.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 50:52Mayim Bialik?

  And not just celebrity people. You, you became inadvertently the face of bravery around owning your own story. Right? Did you have any idea that that would happen?

• 51:09Speaker 01

  No, no idea. And I think that's one of the really cool things about being on tour and traveling so much. Is I'm constantly in the airport and people are walking up to me. And instead of just like, hey, can I grab a selfie? It's like, hey, do you mind, can I share my story with you? And, you know, I. This happened to me and I've never spoke about it. But when I saw you sit down and you were telling your story, like, you know, I opened up to my husband and now we've, we're, we've, you know, in our, in our state, we're, we're drafted, they're now drafting legislation and we were a huge catalyst for that. And we're working on this because in schools, you know, you can still get a job if you're this.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  And so I've had so many situations like that. We're just like, walking on the street, it's usually like, oh, my gosh, can I get a selfie? Cool, thanks, no way, see ya. Now it's like people coming up and be like, do you mind if I, can I, can I just talk to you for a couple of minutes? And then it turns into like a 25 minute conversation of people sharing their stories and talking about how, you know, nobody in my family ever knew about this and I'm finally able to talk about it. And so that's, that's something I definitely didn't expect at all.

• 52:22Mayim Bialik?

  No kidding?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:24Mayim Bialik?

  Does it feel like too much sometimes?

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Sometimes, sometimes, but, but I mean, that, it, it is always going to be an emotional roller coaster of like, is, can you see the dog or does it just look weird that I'm doing something with my hands under here? I'm petting, I'm playing with the dog. So if it just looks like he's like, what is he doing under that table? It's a dog.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  So it, uh, it's that real emotional roller coaster of like, you know, and then also, you know, going on podcasts and no offense on this, but like, it's like talking about it again and then talking about it. But when you have reactions like that, it's like, you know, there's, there's good that comes out of it. It's like, you know, it's, it's like the lyric when I'm like, you know, I kind of relate. I found beauty, beauty in my pain. It's like, okay, even though you've been through these painful situations, like there is a beauty that you can find on the other side of it.

• 53:18Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I mean, we're so appreciative that, that you, you know, were open to talking, but we also, you know, we're really kind of careful around this in terms of like, you know, people fetishize that documentary and they kind of fetishize the information and feel like we get to own you, right? And like, well, he said all those things and what does he expect? But there still is an amount of agency that I think is so important. But one of the things that I wanted to ask you is,

• 53:49Mayim Bialik?

  You know, there's um, there's kind of like a, you know, a tragic ripple effect. When you've experienced the kind of things that you talk about and the kind of things that people come up to you and talk about. And um, you talk a lot and it's in your music about mistakes you've made. And um, I don't think you have to defend, justify, argue anything, you know, about anything that you've done, but I wonder if you can share with people who might be feeling conflict around the kind of expansiveness that trauma brings to your life.

• 54:30Mayim Bialik?

  Meaning, it touches so many more places than the original place that it came from. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that, however generally or specifically as you want to.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that there's something, especially when it happens, I think there's a stunted growth that happens. You're kind of sometimes locked in like the age it happened and you are expected so much from this world when you're like, okay, now I'm in my twenties, I still can, I can make excuse, oh, now I'm in my thirties. You're like, wait, but I've been dealing with this stuff my whole life and it, I think there's like a stunted growth and then there, I think that there's like also, I found what

• 55:14Speaker 01

  it was for me is like, and I, I think because it was like at an age where I was coming, you know, I was getting my first girlfriend and I was coming of age and I was like, what, what does it mean to be a man and what does it mean to be in relationships and be desired? And, oh, now that this has happened to me, like, was like my manhood stripped from me and am I going to be desired by people? And then you're in a situation where you're, you know, even though you're going on stage and, you know, girls are screaming your name and there is all this adulation and people

• 55:56Speaker 01

  are like, oh, man, if I could just have that, but it's not, and you walk off stage and you still feel totally alone and you don't know how to navigate properly through relationships and you don't know, you, you, there's just so many tools that you don't have and boundaries you don't know how to set because boundaries have been just completely just.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Red Rovered your, your whole life and so you and, and then just the feeling of

• 56:27Speaker 01

  just wanting to be accepted or wanting to be appreciated or wanting to be admired or you know, it because that becomes sort of a drug in itself, you know, and, and so it, it, it leads to a lot of loneliness and a lot of self-destructive behavior. But I think that one of the things that has really helped is,

• 56:53Speaker 01

  you know, I talk to so many people that are just like, oh, I hate therapy or I hate talking to doctors or I hate talking about it. Like, no, you don't need to talk about it. It really is like,

• 57:04Speaker 01

  it's really the only way to get through it is if you don't hold it inside for so long, you know.

• 57:11Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and part of the, when abuse happens to children, that's part of the formula.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 57:16Mayim Bialik?

  Is you have to hold it inside.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Keep a secret, yeah.

• 57:19Mayim Bialik?

  Right. It's not an isolated incident.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 57:21Mayim Bialik?

  Um, that can be like, oh, this happened to me and you run home and tell your parents, right?

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:28Mayim Bialik?

  I think the boundary point is a really important one to underscore because

• 57:33Mayim Bialik?

  when a child's boundaries are violated, they, they do not develop a sense of boundaries.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:39Mayim Bialik?

  And it's not that like, I don't believe in boundaries or fuck boundaries.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 57:43Mayim Bialik?

  It's like your brain has not processed boundaries.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, it's not a, it's not a, oh, my parents told me not to, but F that. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna stay out later than my curfew anyway. Like, no, it's not, it's like you're what feel like should be natural boundaries that you don't even know are there. They're just natural for you are being completely steamrolled and that you're like, what is, it, you, it just sets you up for, it, it can set you up for disaster.

• 58:14Mayim Bialik?

  For sure. And I think that's also a really important point that you make.

• 58:19Mayim Bialik?

  The things that we do are the things we do to try and cope with those feelings.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 58:23Mayim Bialik?

  You know, cuz and I think that's what a lot of people don't understand.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Consciously or subconsciously.

• 58:27Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  You know?

• 58:28Mayim Bialik?

  But a lot of people are like, oh, he drinks too much, or she takes drugs and that's bad. Or she has this other compulsive behavior, right? And what it is, is it's a thing to try and numb what it's feeling like.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  But the person who's executing those behaviors might not even know that that's why.

• 58:44Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  You know, they're just like, oh, my, I'm predisposed to alcoholism, or I'm.

• 58:51Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  You know, I was a wild kid, so yeah, I did some drugs and I did this and I was promiscuous and I, you know, did this and that and but the person often sometimes like, it's like, well, that's just my makeup. Like, that's just who I, that's just who I am. I'm wild and crazy.

• 59:08Mayim Bialik?

  I'm always like, where's the trauma? It's in there somewhere.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  And that's what you, and that's what a lot of people don't get to the heart of and get to the bottom of, of like, wait. Like, I know who I am in my heart and who I would like to portray myself, like how I would like the world to view me is like who I really am. So why the hell am I doing all this crap? Why do I keep getting into this kind of trouble? Why do I keep doing these stupid things? Like, do I just, is that, is that just the half of my mom and half of my dad, the suck part? Like, and then you really, when you get into situations or environments like group therapy and places where people who care about you and you're starting to talk about it and really unearth these things that, and you discover so much that,

• 59:54Speaker 01

  cuz you, you replay kind of the same movie in your head over and over and over. And then when you really start to dissect it, you're like, oh, I forgot about that, and I forgot about that, and I forgot about that. And all this stuff starts coming back that you've just like locked down. It, it allows you to realize like, wait a second.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  I'm not lying to myself. Like, I know who I am and who I, you know, strive to be.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  And not to make excuses for the behavior, but at least find reasons and ways to, you know, if you got a leak in your roof and you just think that, you know, just go turn the, there must be, there must be a faucet on somewhere, but it's like, no, there's a hole in your roof. Like, you, but you're not looking at like, what is causing this leak? Like, you know, it's,

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  you're just gonna think, oh, okay, my, my roof just leaks. Like, that's what, that's what it is. You know, but if you can go, oh, because A, B, C, D, now I can tackle those things and realize like, that's what's affecting my mind.

• 1:00:59Mayim Bialik?

  Can you talk a little bit about some of the positive things that have kind of come out of this? You know, I think that people obviously know, you know, that you and Josh and, you know, you and Miranda were obviously so incredibly close. Were those kind of relationships that felt supportive? Did you seek out, you know, support? You, you know, you talk about in the documentary, your girlfriend at the time, who was sort of the one who helped you step out of the secrecy and the shame.

• 1:01:33Mayim Bialik?

  And I know that she, you know, obviously saw the documentary, but can you talk a little bit about, you know, either your co-stars or other people in that world?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, me and her got to rekindle a great friendship because that, at the end of the day, when we, we were so young, when we were dating, that we were just best friends and we were just so close. And so it really was interesting talking to her after the documentary. And obviously she was someone who knew everything that had happened.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Really seeing like the impact that it just doesn't have on

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  me, but that it had on the, my, people I loved around me. And yeah, I mean, that was really wild hearing her perspective and just her journey through life.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Was completely affected by this situation as well.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  And, and you know, she's awesome and we've gotten to rekindle our friendship, which is really nice.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  And, and yeah, I mean, you know, people like Josh or, you know, I, I was really close to like, for example, Jonathan Goldstein, who played the dad on the show, a lot of the producers and writers and people and stuff and so.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, and, and throughout the time of working on the show, there was obviously people who knew what had happened and stuff that were close to the show.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  That was really where I found my solace and was able to find, feel safe and, you know, I, unfortunately, for, you know, the way the documentary portrays life on set.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  For me, my experience was life on set was the safe escape from what I was going through.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  When I, when I was on set, I felt protected, I felt safe, I felt, you know, and especially even after it happened, even more so with the support that I had with, I grew closer to people, I was, you know, I really felt,

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  I don't know, I felt like, like during the documentary on some aspects of it, I was kind of like,

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  it's a bummer that this is getting kind of such bad light because my experience, and I can only speak from my experience, but, was when I got, when I got to set, I was like, oh, thank God, I just, Away from your predator. Away from my predator, I'm able to be around people I love, I'm able to get to do what I love to do. And does it get stressful sometimes? Yeah, but you should have been on that movie that I was working on in Canada, three, or in Romania at three o'clock in the morning with no child labor laws and having to do 26 hour days and, you know, so I had already, so I, the stress for me was just like being at work.

• 1:04:15Mayim Bialik?

  Were you and Josh and like, were you that close?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, Josh and I would obviously, you know, we started so young and

• 1:04:23Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  There were, we were growing and going through our adolescence. So there would be times when we were like inseparable, you know, it would be like, finish work and what are you doing? I'm gonna go home and play Playstation. All right, I'll meet you there, you know? And I'm like, we just spent 12 hours together and now we're at home like, playing games and ordering pizza.

• 1:04:40Mayim Bialik?

  But that's kind of how friendships work. It's like you spend more time with those people than you do with anyone. And also, I remember this when Joey and Jenna and I would hang out. It was like, they understood exactly what my day was like.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Mayim Bialik?

  You know, when you tried to hang out with like, you know, kids from school or like, they didn't, it was like they had a whole, it was a different universe.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Yep, totally different universe.

• 1:05:00Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  And, but then there was also times where I was like, I'm only talking to Josh if it says it in the script. Okay? Otherwise-

• 1:05:07Mayim Bialik?

  Kind of like us.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, otherwise, keep him away from me. And I'm sure he felt the same way.

• 1:05:13Mayim Bialik?

  Because those were just normal teenage, you know, ups and downs that you would go through.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Completely.

• 1:05:18Mayim Bialik?

  Um, I wonder if you can, um, just one more question, um, about sort of like the documentary and as I said, there were these kind of like two components. And, um, you know, I had a lot of feelings even before, you know, your part of the documentary started in terms of, you know, things that we were told were acceptable on sets, just like, even, even things that weren't necessarily, let's say abusive. Just, there was a standard of behavior and decorum that by today's standards were just not okay, right? Um, and, you know, Amanda Bynes is someone who like, there's references to it and there's all this speculation, you know,

• 1:06:00Mayim Bialik?

  about sort of not just her, but about this ripple effect that these kind of sets, you know, have on people. And I wonder if you have a different perspective now as an adult of kind of, what, what you experienced, what it's like for young people operating in an adult world? Kind of with everything that you've seen and also everything you've been through.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that there was a, I mean, and I'm only speaking from my experience.

• 1:06:27Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  But there definitely was a-

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Adult atmosphere while working on a children's show. But not nearly as much as if I was working on a guest spot on an NBC show or a guest spot on an ABC show, like where they weren't these standards and practices of like, hey, we're making shows with kids, for kids. Like, we need to keep up a decorum on set. Whereas if you're working on a show that's for adults, that just happened to have a kid in it.

• 1:07:01Mayim Bialik?

  Hmm, that's interesting.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Your experience is totally more, you're gonna hear some, you know, working blue at lunch, like you're gonna hear some stories that you're like, whoa, like.

• 1:07:12Mayim Bialik?

  I wasn't really a Nickelodeon watcher.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15Mayim Bialik?

  You know, I was a little bit older, you know, than you and already like just annoyed with television in general, just because I was like living and breathing it and it was like coming out of my ears. But I have to say, there were some things like the, what was it, the Ariana Grande stuff?

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Mayim Bialik?

  I was like, how did this happen? What is happening?

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's always.

• 1:07:34Mayim Bialik?

  That seemed like a joke to me.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Mayim Bialik?

  Like if you would see that on an SNL skit and be like, wouldn't it be funny if a kid's?

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  If a kid's show did this?

• 1:07:41Mayim Bialik?

  Like some of it went really far and like my jaw was on the floor. I was like, wait a second. This is weird.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that there's.

• 1:07:49Mayim Bialik?

  Like weirder than I thought.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  I think there's weird. And because of some of the

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  it's like going and seeing a Pixar movie with your kids.

• 1:07:59Mayim Bialik?

  Is it?

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Like, there's jokes in Toy Story 3.

• 1:08:04Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, but they're not like.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  That you cannot explain to your children.

• 1:08:07Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, but they're not like overtly sexual and like.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely overtly sexual. The stuff between Barbie and Ken.

• 1:08:13Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, that's.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  The stuff between, I mean, you are not going to explain these jokes to a child.

• 1:08:16Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:08:16Jonathan Cohen?

  But it's more of like double entendres and verbal jokes than it is dramatizing.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Dramatizing.

• 1:08:22Mayim Bialik?

  This surprised me.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  Also, the difference is too, is you're working with live actors versus animation. So you're actually putting people in these situations that are not just animated.

• 1:08:32Mayim Bialik?

  I'm just saying it felt weird.

• 1:08:33Jonathan Cohen?

  Yes, and the water bottle scene.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:36Jonathan Cohen?

  Where she's being dramatized, it just feels like overtly exploitive.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that there's two, I think that that's a double edged sword, though. I think that there is. Because there are things that are questionable.

• 1:08:51Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Now, all of a sudden, you're looking at every single thing as questionable when it's like, that's just a pie in the face. Kids like funny words.

• 1:08:58Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  Kids think it's funny if you say, like, like, for example, they're like, oh, there's too much about feet. Well, I have a three-year-old, and you know what? If I tell him some sophisticated joke from Frasier, he's like, huh? But if I grab his feet and I go, oh, you have taco feet.

• 1:09:17Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  It's the funniest thing he's ever heard in his life, you know?

• 1:09:20Mayim Bialik?

  It's finding that balance.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Do it again, dada, do it again, do it again. No, my feet don't smell like tacos. Yeah, you have taco feet. It's the funniest thing. Well, now you put it in here, and it's like, oh, why is he making so many feet jokes? Well, because that's what kids laugh at. Like, so I think that they, I think that there was, obviously, things that pushed the envelope and things that put people in situations that maybe they felt uncomfortable in.

• 1:09:43Mayim Bialik?

  And when you group them all together.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  And then didn't have the, didn't feel because they were not at an age or had the experience to be like, no, next joke. Like, I'm not doing the potato gag, give me something else. No, I'm not gonna do the water gag, give me something else. They don't have that feeling of they can go up to the, you know, whoever's in charge, or their parents, or their parents can step in.

• 1:10:08Jonathan Cohen?

  And they might not have been listened to, anyway.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  And that's what I'm saying.

• 1:10:10Mayim Bialik?

  There's huge pressure.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:10:12Mayim Bialik?

  There's huge pressure.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. But when you lay, when you put them all together, I think that there is a little bit of like, what's been happening on YouTube. I, I watch these things get put together, and I'm like, okay, like, three or four of those, I could say, all right, that shouldn't have been on a kid's show. But this is a 20-minute video of like, somebody getting squirt with something in the face. I'm like, that's a pie in the face. That's not, that's not trying to look like, you know, but then, there are other things, like, you know, on, even on Drake and Josh, like, when I spray the suntan lotion all over the kid, and then Josh comes in and goes, what's all over your, never mind, I don't wanna know. You're like, okay, well, obviously, that's a reference to something. Like, you wouldn't be like, what's all over your face? It's got suntan lotion all over it. Obviously, that's a reference to something.

• 1:10:55Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  But I think that there is a little...

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Grouping them all together and going like, like dude, like, sorry, if I tell my, my, you know, if I'm like, oh, I, I feel uncomfortable. I got cheese in my pants. It's like, oh, why are they talking about what's inside of a child's pants? It's like, dude, it's a, it's a, something funny that, oh, bring me the ointment, like, ointment's a funny word. Like, we're not trying to take that anywhere. But then there are things that I think.

• 1:11:28Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, they lose credibility when they step over the line like that.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:11:32Jonathan Cohen?

  And you lose trust in,

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:11:34Jonathan Cohen?

  Do they know what's appropriate?

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:36Mayim Bialik?

  You live in Mexico primarily?

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  I'm in Mexico a lot. I was recording my last record that we just released. And so I don't officially live in Mexico, but I may as well, because I'm, I'm there quite a bit.

• 1:11:48Mayim Bialik?

  Do you otherwise live out of a suitcase?

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:51Mayim Bialik?

  What is that like?

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  It's fun, you know, I mean, I, especially right now, because the record just came out. And so we're, we're on tour. I had, uh, we started out off in Mexico. And now I'm back here doing, uh, shows in the States. We had a bunch of shows. And then next year, we go deeper into Latin America and then,

• 1:12:08Mayim Bialik?

  Amazing.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Off to Europe and.

• 1:12:10Mayim Bialik?

  I wonder if you can talk a little bit about your, your music.

• 1:12:17Mayim Bialik?

  Do you speak Spanish?

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  I speak enough.

• 1:12:20Mayim Bialik?

  You sing in Spanish?

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:21Mayim Bialik?

  But you also sing in English?

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:24Mayim Bialik?

  How did this come about, your kind of music foray in Latin America?

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Well, I put out an album in 2006 called It's Only Time. And we went on this big tour in the US.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  And it was doing pretty well and, you know, we were, but we were also billed with,

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  a couple of other acts that were pulling in a lot of people. So,

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  you know, we were playing big places like Irvine. Well, I think it's changed names since Irvine Amphitheater and.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Hollywood, like, big places, but we were pulling in, uh, wasn't just my band.

• 1:13:06Mayim Bialik?

  Sure, right. You're not headlining.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it was like a co-headline thing. And so when we, um, would play by ourselves, you know, we'd pull in like 500, 1,000 people.

• 1:13:17Mayim Bialik?

  It was a lot of people.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  It was the first, I mean, my first record I put out independently, my second record, this is the first record on a label.

• 1:13:23Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  First song that had gotten any traction or anything. Um, but we got booked some shows in Mexico and only time I'd been in Mexico is, you know, growing up in Southern California. And it's like, oh, it's the summertime, me and my brothers and family are gonna go to Tijuana and Rosarito and hang out. You know, just cross the border for a couple of days. And that was like my experience in Mexico. I'd never been to Mexico City or Guadalajara or Monterrey or anything like that. And, um, we, we had some shows booked in Mexico and I really had no idea what we were walking into, you know? And we landed at the airport and it was like the Beatles at JFK. It was like, what is going on? You know, who's, who's on our flight? You know, who's, who's coming?

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  And they all had signs and fans, you know, it was just mayhem. It was like, it was total like the opening of Hard Day's Night, you know, they're like chasing the SUVs and they're outside every interview that I go to do the radio stations. And I, you know, they're like, oh, you're playing Auditorio Nacional. I'm like, okay, cool. Like, is that a club? Or like, I have no idea. I'm totally walking in blind.

• 1:14:28Mayim Bialik?

  You're just like booked and this is where you're going next.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  So I go in to do something like this and it's, it's basically like their Kiss FM. I'm interviewing with like their Ryan Seacrest, it's like the biggest radio station and DJ. And he's asking, he's like, you know, it's quite an honor to be playing at the, uh, National Auditorium and, and you have two shows there. And, um, you know, what does that feel like? I'm like, feels great. I don't know. Like, I, it's cool. Like, I don't even know what it should, but it's an honor? Really? Like, I'm like, what's going on? And then at the end of the interview, we do, you know, how you do liners, you're like, hey, what's up? This is my Viall and you're listening to KFWB. So, um, they were having me, they're like, okay, the first one, could you say, you know, thank the fans for keeping your song at number one? And I'm like, what?

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Like on the, like on the station, like, like number one where? Like at, at the taco shop? Like where, where is my song number one? They're like, in the whole country. I'm like, what?

• 1:15:23Mayim Bialik?

  It's a big country to have a number one in.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's huge, you know? I mean, eight and a half million people just in Mexico City. And I turned around, I'm like, looking at my team, I'm like, what? Number, oh, okay. Hey, thanks for keeping my song at number one. Like you wouldn't, nobody told me this? Like, what's going on? And then they're like, okay, next liner, could you say, thank you for keeping your album at number one? What? I'm like, what? The whole album's the number one? He's like, you're, you have the number one record in the country right now.

• 1:15:47Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  Like, this is insane. So then we get to Auditorio Nacional and we go to sound check. And I walk out onto the stage to do sound check and I look at the audience and I'm like, you know, all these empty seats. It's like 10,000, 15,000 empty seats. And I'm like, oh, they think that we're good. Like, guys, I, hey, hey, do they think that we're gonna sell? Like, there's only gonna be people like in the front. Like, this is too big of a place. We might like.

• 1:16:18Mayim Bialik?

  You figure like 500 people will fill the front.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, we're, we need, we need a smaller place, you know? And they're like, no, it's sold out.

• 1:16:25Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, my.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  I'm like, what? And they're like, yeah, and actually we had to add a matinee show and that sold out too. So you have two shows here sold out today. I'm like, what?

• 1:16:33Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, I have a question, though. When you're performing for 500 people.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:38Mayim Bialik?

  That sounds like a lot of people. I mean, that is a lot of people. And, you know, I only know the acting side, right? So I know what it's like to see 500 people in an audience.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:48Mayim Bialik?

  As a musician, how different does that feel to like 5,000?

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  It, it's totally different, but also there's really cool things about them both, like. I'm play, I was playing shows recently in Dallas and in Oklahoma City and they're in clubs, smaller crowds.

• 1:17:06Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  But you have more of a connection with the people when it's a smaller crowd. Like you can mess with the, like, a bunch of fans were like, I didn't know I was coming to see stand-up too, like, and that's something that wouldn't necessarily happen if I'm playing to, like, Enrico Pato, we just had like 30,000.

• 1:17:27Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  And it's, you play to, it's, it's more energetic, like, you come out with like a bang and you got the fireworks and the dancers and the visuals and all this, but it's more like,

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  I don't know, you just, it's like a, you see like the first row and then it's just a sea of people, so it's like really, I mean, you get the energy from the audience and you're putting on this huge rock show and you're, a lot more energy, but then when it's a smaller crowd, like, you can make jokes and you can pick someone out of the audience, or you've got the guy, you know, the Free Bird guy, or you've got the drunk guy who's like, enough of the story, just play the song, you know, and then you can like mess with him and then like get the audience to laugh and, so it's, they're totally different experiences, but they both have like really cool aspects, you know, like walking out on stage to a sea of people, I mean, you feel like Elvis, you feel like a rock star, you're like, oh, this is incredible, and then you walk out on stage and you're like, to, you know, a couple hundred, and you're like, oh, I get to play tonight, like,

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  I get to mess around.

• 1:18:27Mayim Bialik?

  Well, it's kind of funny because, and I think it relates to a lot of my acting experience and maybe yours as well, there's different levels of dissociation

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:35Mayim Bialik?

  that you get to engage in as a performer, and it does depend a lot on like what's out there, right?

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:18:43Mayim Bialik?

  Because when you think about, like, when I would think about run-through, right? So I don't know how, how your show worked, but like ours, we would do like a run-through and it was just for, you know, 20 people, right? It was for the, the writers and the producers, and it was a very small group, and then the next day they would add network people, right? So it would kind of grow, but it's like your energy has to match and your ability to invest in what other people want from you

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:19:09Mayim Bialik?

  changes, right? If it's 10 people

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:19:12Mayim Bialik?

  and which 10 people. So I'm wondering for you as a performer and especially with your experience as an actor, like, Are there different levels of kind of like being able to check out and hide? You know, in a different way?

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's like checking out and hiding. I think it's, I mean, I love performing. I love being an entertainer. I grew up on all of the classic, like, my dad raised me on Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin and Abbott and Costello. And I love, I mean, not that I would ever have the guts to do it, but like, I'm obsessed with stand-up comedy. And I really have that. That's why I think like what you were saying is when

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  there were, there were points in our show where we had a live audience when we would tape on Friday night. And then there were points in our show where, also because our live audiences were usually younger people. And it's like, how are we gonna wrangle these kids? You know, it's like, you can only throw candy at them for so long until they're like, okay, we've seen this, you know? You go watch a show with adults in the audience, they can watch the same scene four or five takes and see the different jokes and whatever. But when you got kids in the audience, they're like,

• 1:20:14Mayim Bialik?

  It's like moving along.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  We've seen this, like, next, like, let's move on, you know? And I, audience, you know, adult audience, you can kind of say, they'll laugh at the same joke because they know they're like contributing to part of it.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  And then there were times when we didn't have a live audience. And so it was definitely a different, because I love to perform. I love to hear what's working, what the, what, you know, what's, you know?

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Getting that instant gratification of, it's the difference between working on a live sitcom and then working on a movie, you know? It's like, oh, okay, we're doing your single now. Okay, well, now we gotta turn around. All right, see you in three hours as we turn everything around. And then you do the same thing and you shoot like half a page a day and you're like, oh my God, how many more novels can I read in my, in my trailer and go through the entire season of Sopranos? Like, it's just so boring. But when you work on a sitcom,

• 1:21:04Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  You get that, like, oh, oh, Friday night, all right, hey, the show's starting, okay, we're loading the audience in, like, the lights are up, the, all the hair and makeup people are there, everything. It's like you're going, it's more like theater. It's like, oh, man, we got that energy of the live audience. So there definitely is a difference between doing a sitcom where you just have like the producer filling in the laugh track, like, you know, just one person laughing just to fill in.

• 1:21:30Mayim Bialik?

  There's always that one writer who's like, ha, ha, ha, ha.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  And it's just so, to give the actors the timing to say the next line because you don't want to step on the laughs. And so you're just like, Like, okay, that's not, I mean, our producer was very good at like making it seem like they were real laughs. Like, it wasn't like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, like, just for timing, like, it would work, but it's nothing like having an actual audience laughing at your jokes.

• 1:21:55Mayim Bialik?

  Wait, I just wanna like, I wanna go through the different kinds of laughs there are, because there's also like the writer who laughs, and then their face completely turns dead inside when they're done, and it's like, ha, ha, ha. Like, waiting for the next one, right? There's like this whole variety of laughs.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  There's always the writer who only laughs at their own jokes. Like, like, you could tell that they were fighting for this in the writers' room. And then the producer was fine, like, okay, fine. And then there's the one writer that's like, just laughs at their own joke. And you're like, I know, I know every line you wrote in this script.

• 1:22:26Mayim Bialik?

  But they're laughing like, ha, ha, ha.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, I told you, they do the hit, they do this, they got the rolled up script, and they slap, they're like, told you, told you, it worked.

• 1:22:35Mayim Bialik?

  Um, there's also, there's a laugh where the face is not laughing, but the sound comes out. Where they're just like, meh, because they know they need to fill that time. I just did four different laughs that I've never thought about.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Ours was actually not, he was very good at making it sound like a real laugh. So it was never the same laugh. He would laugh, it was, it was very boisterous and, and, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it worked, it worked, but nothing compared to... Yeah, it's all for timing, but nothing compares to having, you know, an actual audience there.

• 1:23:07Mayim Bialik?

  Drake Bell, tell people where they can find you and where they can find your music.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  Before we end this, it's my turn to interview you.

• 1:23:13Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  Okay, so I've seen every single episode of Jeopardy. Since, since, well, actually, I take that back. Since I've been traveling so much, uh, this past like year, year and a half, I have missed a lot because I, they don't play it in Mexico. And they don't stream it, they don't stream it as they should. Like, I should be able to get every single episode of Jeopardy. And if that's possible, and I'm on the wrong streaming network. We can start a campaign. Please tell me. But literally since Holshauser's streak, I have not missed an episode of Jeopardy. I'm absolutely obsessed with the show.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  And I mean, even when we're on vacation in Hawaii, you guys play at four o'clock. And there's two episodes. So you guys are, but you're on earlier in the day. And so I will literally be like, ziplining with friends or like on a hike. And I'm like, guys, guys, it's 2:45. Like, we have got to get back to the house to watch it live. Anyway, so what is it like hosting Jeopardy? Is what, how did you get? How did, because they were going through all of, there was all of the speculation of who the hosts were gonna be and.

• 1:24:30Mayim Bialik?

  Yes, I should, so I should say you've missed an interesting year.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:34Mayim Bialik?

  I am no longer the host of Jeopardy, but I did have a very, very enjoyable run. So when they did all the celebrity kind of tryouts, I never in a million years thought that I would be selected, which I eventually was. I had an unbelievable time doing it. And largely because the amount of information that I got to learn on a daily basis was just so exciting. Like, things that I never, you know, would get to know about.

• 1:25:09Mayim Bialik?

  And it was incredible, but I was working on a television show at the time. And so I was on Call Me Cat for three years. So I was bouncing between. And like every hiatus, we going to do Jeopardy. And, you know, we do a bunch in a day. And it was, it was really exciting. We did Celebrity Jeopardy, which was really fun because I also got to like, meet incredible people that I wanted to meet. But it's a very, I'd say it's a, I consider it, it's like, it's stressful in a positive way because there's so much precision required.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  That's what I was gonna ask you. It's like, how, how, how nervous are you to like, read every question correctly? Know how to put the emphasis on the right, you know?

• 1:25:49Mayim Bialik?

  Yep.

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  You know, how do you say, what was Alex's, the, the, um, oh, shoot, his, uh, Genre, like, like, how do you pronounce this word correctly?

• 1:26:00Mayim Bialik?

  There was, I mean, Alex also spoke French.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:03Mayim Bialik?

  And they very quickly realized, oh, she doesn't speak French. I speak other languages, but not French. Um, but it was, it was intense, is how I would describe it.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Do you get to see, obviously, like, what do you get?

• 1:26:17Mayim Bialik?

  You get the clues the night before.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Only the clues?

• 1:26:19Mayim Bialik?

  The clues the night before, well, with the answers, because you have to be able to answer them in case they don't answer them.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Okay, so you have clues and answers?

• 1:26:26Mayim Bialik?

  Clues and answers. You get them the night before or the next morning.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  So then you get ability to, so when you...

• 1:26:30Mayim Bialik?

  You practice a little bit, but not a lot.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  But, but if you have something, a joke to reference with the thing, or you have something, some...

• 1:26:36Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Random fact about it.

• 1:26:37Mayim Bialik?

  But mostly, it's also, you know, it's a very different thing than being an actor or a performer, because you want to highlight the guests, right? So you want to kind of give that space for them. And some guests are, you know, more anxious than others, or nervous, or not very chit-chat-y. Um, but yeah, having to kind of come up with interview questions, but there's also a very, um, very skilled staff, and it's actually a, a Writers Guild show, and so those members of the Writers Guild work their butts off to write both the clues and also to help with sort of the whole vibe of how you speak to contestants and stuff.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would just, I would love to, I mean, I don't know if I could host, because it just looks like the most stressful job in the world.

• 1:27:15Mayim Bialik?

  It's very intense.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Even though you've got, Alex made it look like the easiest job on the planet.

• 1:27:19Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, it was incredible.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  Um, but I know it's like, I just watched that, and I'm like, this has got to be the most stressful, and then going up and interviewing them after the commercial break, and you're like, just these random people from these random towns that have never been on TV.

• 1:27:34Mayim Bialik?

  It's incredible, though. But you meet amazing people. You meet amazing people.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  You're like, tell me that funny story about your dog, and they're like, oh, my dog went out in the snow, and then he came back in, and he got snow all over our living room. You're like...

• 1:27:48Mayim Bialik?

  Well, here's, here's...

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  That's the story? That out of your whole life? That's what you shared on Jeopardy?

• 1:27:54Mayim Bialik?

  Here's a promise I will make you. If I ever get to host again, I'm going to reach out to you and bring you with me.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Do it, do it, do it, because I would love it. I would love it.

• 1:28:02Mayim Bialik?

  Please tell people where they can find your album, All Things Drake Bell.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  The album's streaming everywhere. You stream music, Spotify, iTunes, everywhere. And I'm Drake Bell on everything. So just Drake Bell on Instagram and Facebook and X.

• 1:28:19Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you opening up and talking so intimately with us. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.