469 | Ikigai

The Minimalists discuss the things that give people a sense of purpose. Discussed in this episode: Can minimalism help people find their reason for being? (2:20) What makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning? (16:55) Listener tip: How to use technology without letting it use you. (39:33) Listen to the full Maximal episode on Patreon: patreon.com/theminimalists http://patreon.com/theminimalists Detailed show notes: minimalists.com/podcast http://minimalists.com/podcast Recorded at Earthing Studios http://earthing.com/simple.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'll be fine without it.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  You're listening to the Minimalist Podcast with Joshua Fields Milburn and TK Coleman. Recorded live at Earthing Studios in sunny California.

• 0:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, that's right. The sun is back because Sunny Malabama is here. She was out last week. Nicodemus was here. He told me to give you a big hug, Bama, so I got an extra hug in my pocket for you.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yay. I'm so sad I missed him. He's wonderful.

• 1:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  He'll be back soon. We're talking today about, well, some important things. The things that give people a sense of purpose. So coming up on this free, public, minimal episode, a caller has a question about whether minimalism can help people find their reason for being. And then we've got a lightning round question about what makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning? That's followed by our Right Here, Right Now segment and a listener tip. You can check out the maximal edition of episode 469. That's the full two-hour episode where we answer four times as many questions and dive deep into several simple living segments. That private podcast is out right now on Patreon. You can find the link in the description. When you subscribe, you'll receive a personal, private feed so that our weekly maximal

• 1:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  episodes play in your favorite podcast app. You'll also gain access to all of our podcast archives, all the way back to episode 001. Big thanks to our patrons. Your support keeps our podcast 100% advertisement-free because, sing along at home, y'all. Advertisements suck. Let's start with our callers. If you have a question or a comment for our show, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call. Our phone number is 406-219-7839, or you can email a voice recording right from your phone to [email protected]. Our first question today is from Ryle.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Hey there guys, thanks for having me on your podcast. My name is Ryle from San Carlos City, Philippines, and I am currently reading a book called Ikigai: A Reason for Being by Hector Garcia and Frances Morales. For me, I think that minimalism also plays a huge role in ikigai. So my question for you is that can minimalism help us in our path finding our ikigai or reason for being?

• 2:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  TK, I enjoy this question because it's a minimalism question, but it's also about a topic that we haven't talked about on this show before: ikigai. And I wanted to introduce this concept, the Japanese secret of a joyful life. But I absolutely love how our friend Rob Bell talks about ikigai. And the first time that I ever heard about this idea, this concept, this way of living, was from Rob Bell in his book Howl to Be Here. And so we have an excerpt. Malabam, will you mind reading this excerpt for us?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Be happy to. This is from pages fifty-six through fifty-nine. The Japanese have a word for what gets you out of bed in the morning. They call it your ikigai. Your ikigai is that sense you have when you wake up that this day matters, that there are new experiences to be had, that you have work to do, a contribution to make. Sometimes, this is referred to as your calling, other times your vocation, your destiny, your path. Your ikigai is your reason for being. If you're like a lot of people, the moment the words path and vocation and calling come into the conversation, let alone a new word like ikigai, a thousand questions come to mind. Questions about paychecks and responsibility and passion

• 4:06Speaker 01

  and what you wish you could do if only you didn't have those bills to pay. We are always in the endless process of figuring out our ikigai. Your ikigai is a web of work and family and play and how you spend your time, what you give your energies to, what you say yes to, what you say no to, what new challenges you take on, things that come your way that you never wanted or planned for or know what to do with. Your ikigai is a work in progress because you are a work in progress. Knowing your ikigai then takes patience and insight and courage and honesty. You try lots of different things. You volunteer, you sign up, you take a class, you do an internship,

• 4:50Speaker 01

  you get the training, you shadow someone around for a day who does something that intrigues you. You follow your curiosity. You watch for things that grab your attention. This is much easier when you're younger and have less financial pressure and fewer others depending on you. But it's true, no matter how old you are. You explore the possibilities because you can't steer a parked car. The one thing that unites the people I know who are on satisfying and meaningful paths is that they kept trying things, kept exploring, kept pursuing new opportunities, kept searching until they discovered their ikigai. And then, from there, they never stop figuring it out

• 5:34Speaker 01

  because they understand how absolutely crucial this is in creating a life worth living. When you pursue your path, exploring the possibilities as you search for your ikigai, pay careful attention to the things that make you angry and get you all riled up and provoke you to say, "Someone should do something about that." The someone may be you.

• 5:56Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I like that there are a couple paths here. He talks about what gets you out of bed in the morning, TK. But also, what gets you riled up? And I thought that would resonate with you specifically. Like, what makes me angry? What frustrates me? What is wrong with the world that I think I can contribute to?

• 6:16Speaker 04

  That's exactly right. Anger is like a fire. You can use a fire to destroy a city, burn down a house, but you can also use it to feed a family. And to warm yourself in the wintertime. Fire is not intrinsically bad. Fire is just really powerful. And like anything that's powerful, it's powerful enough to destroy, but also powerful enough to nurture, to nourish and to create. And anger is like that. And the demonization of anger has conditioned many of us to focus so much on the sensation of guilt that accompanies it, that we treat enlightenment as if it's pushing anger away or conquering it or suppressing it or making it pass as quickly as possible.

• 6:57Speaker 04

  But that anger is a teacher and it's a reflection of something about the world that you don't like because of the values that you have. And when you find yourself feeling angry, it's a great time to ask, what is this anger teaching me about my convictions and my values? And then how can I channel that anger along creative and constructive lines? Because your anger, in many ways, is your biggest clue to what is meaningful to you in life and what you're optimized to change about the world.

• 7:25Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It seems to me that you're talking about either path, whether it's this is really interesting to me, this is fascinating, I'm curious about this thing, that can be my ikigai, or this thing really frustrates me. There's some sort of injustice in the world. Either one of those things are compelling. I think that's the commonality between either one of those paths. Recently, my 11-year-old daughter Ella, she asked me what the meaning of life was.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 7:52Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I just responded with one word: presence. Now, I think really she was asking me like, what is my ikigai? What is the thing that I can be compelled by going for? And of course, I can't assign that to her. I can't prescribe something that will get her out of bed in the morning. I can't prescribe something that she'll be compelled by. Hey, you really should be compelled by basketball because she's super tall. When she turned 11 years old, she was already five foot five. And so she'll be well over six feet by the time she's adult, I suspect. But that doesn't mean I can force her to be passionate about a thing. I could force her to play basketball, but I'm not into forcing or convincing or coercing.

• 8:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  But I do think that there is something about this presence. In fact, the book that Mal was just reading from is called How to Be Here. It's essentially a book about being present, being here in the present moment. And so In that respect, presence is the purpose of life. And so your ikigai can be thought of as what brings you into the present moment? What brings you into the now? Is it your material possessions? Is it shopping for more, more, more? Is it gaining more followers? Is it pursuing some sort of goal that isn't even your goal? It's a goal that society handed to you. Is it a promotion or is it a career? And maybe the answer to that is yes.

• 9:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  But quite often, we're pursuing the things that force us out of bed in the morning. They don't compel us out of bed in the morning.

• 9:29Speaker 04

  That's exactly right. And this is why it takes courage to be honest with yourself and others about what brings you joy. Because when you finally tune in to what brings you joy, you may find that it's not the kind of thing that can be justified to others in terms of arguments that show this will be profitable, arguments that show that this is a responsible thing that makes the world better. And what's paradoxical about that is many of the things which do turn out to be profitable or which do turn out to make the world better are not pursued for that reason. They're pursued because someone was curious about it. Someone was interesting, interested in it. But then it turned into this thing that actually made the world better in ways we could have never predicted it because of how someone else came along

• 10:14Speaker 04

  and used or leveraged or engaged with what we created. It takes a lot of courage in a world that demands justification for everything to say, this is what brings me joy and that's a reason enough to pursue it. In the absence of any morally or logically compelling reasons to do otherwise, I am free to pursue what brings me joy.

• 10:34Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You're making me think of the peach tree that is in my backyard.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:38Joshua Fields Millburn?

  If I were to walk up to that peach tree and say, why do you produce peaches? If it could answer me, it would say because I'm a peach tree.

• 10:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And that would be the only explanation that was needed. But it wouldn't say because I'm competing with the apricot tree on the other side of the yard and it's bigger than me and I want to be better than that tree.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  Well, the world really needs peach trees, man. There's just like a shortage of healthy food and I gotta help keep people alive.

• 11:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Right, and then the peach tree isn't even saying, I want to help other people. It does, but without regard of how its fruit will be consumed. It produces peaches because it is a peach tree. I often talk about writing. The reason that I enjoy writing so much is because it feels like the thing that I can't not do. I enjoy doing it so much that even if I never made another penny from writing, it's something that I would do virtually every day for the rest of my life. And if you were to ask me to, why, why do you write? Well, I guess because I'm a writer, but really it's because I'm passionate about writing. I feel compelled to write.

• 11:46Speaker 04

  One quick thing about this is that everything that you do for others is capable of being enhanced and amplified by the things that you don't do for others. So it's not necessary that doing what you love and serving other people, they don't have to be in competition. Many times, the things that we love that are about our own interest are things that make us come alive in unique ways and they give birth to a lot of creative ideas that we can then turn around and bring to those acts of service so that we're able to perform them with greater interestingness, greater empathy, greater creativity, and we can inspire other people in ways that you can't do just by showing up and following the rules or following the job description or going through the motions.

• 12:32Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I'd like to get back to the heart of the question for Ryle. Can minimalism help people find their reason for being? Can minimalism help people find their ikigai? And I think the answer is yes, if you look at minimalism like a tool. If there is a reason for being that is covered up, covered up by toxic relationships, covered up by striving or chasing, covered up by this false idea of success, covered up by the complexities of everyday life, and certainly covered up by all of the material possessions that we thought we needed. We thought they were going to bring us joy. That we thought our reason for life was buying and consuming these things. But if we treat minimalism as a tool,

• 13:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  and we treat our things as a tool, we realize that there's a lot of excess. There's a lot of clutter that is in the way. And what is underneath that clutter? The relationship clutter and the digital clutter and the mental clutter and the psychological clutter? What's underneath all of that clutter is your reason for being.

• 13:36Speaker 04

  I love how you qualified your answer with, if you treat minimalism as a tool. It's like when you get on a plane and the pilot says something like, this plane is going to Chicago, you know, and they confirm with you like, if that's not where you're headed, this is your time to exit the plane. Now, we've gone through this long process of going through security, having to show our ticket, but they still do that just in case so that you know, get off if you don't intend to end up at this destination. And in a similar way, I would say to anyone, if you're looking for a comprehensive philosophy that's going to solve all the world's problems or solve your problems and give you meaning and a reason to existence, I think you should get off the minimalism plane before it takes you somewhere that's very disappointing, a place that you don't want to be in. Minimalism can't do that. But like you said, it is a tool.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  And the way I look at it is like, if you go to the ocean on a stormy day and you look at the water, you see the waves beating, you see a bunch of chaos, a bunch of darkness and so on. But if you come back to that ocean on a calm day, you look at the water, you can see through and you can see that it's teeming with life. You can see the plant life, you can see the fish swimming around. In a similar way, Your soul is like that ocean. There is so much life and creativity and insight within you, and minimalism can help remove the clutter that keeps you from seeing it. For so many of us, we have so much calendar clutter keeping us busy. We have so much emotional clutter that makes us afraid to look within, and we have so much physical clutter that

• 15:02Speaker 04

  keeps our attention externally directed that we never have the time, the space, the energy, the availability to look within and see what the cries of our heart are trying to teach us. Minimalism can help you create that space by letting go of the things that get in the way, and the rest is up to you.

• 15:20Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Ryle, I would love to give you a clutter counseling session with TK Coleman. I've seen him work with so many people, and he's helped me in my own life as well. And I think he can help you uncover your purpose and joy, because it's already there. He can't give you your purpose, can't give you a sense of meaning. He certainly can't give you joy, but he can help you see what is covering it up. So if you'd like a clutter counseling session, whether it's emotional clutter, or physical clutter, or mental clutter, or spiritual clutter, or digital clutter, career clutter, I know you've worked with quite a few people about career clutter now, relationship clutter, all different types of clutter, then you will certainly benefit from a clutter counseling session with TK Coleman. I'll be happy to

• 16:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  give that to you for free. For anyone else who wants to check that out, theminimalists.com, just click Counseling there at the top, and you can schedule an appointment with TK. If everything's booked up this week, then go ahead and schedule an appointment next week. All right, before we get back to our callers, Malibu, what time is it?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  You know what time it is. It's time for the lightning round, where we answer the Patreon community chat's question of the week.

• 16:25Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, indeed. Now, during the lightning round, we each have 60 seconds to answer your question with a short, shareable, minimal maxim. You can find this episode's maxims in the show notes at theminimalists.com/podcast, and every minimal maxim ever at minimalmaxims.com. We'll also deliver our weekly show notes directly to your inbox, including seven new maxims every Monday for free. If you sign up for our email newsletter at theminimalists.e-mail, we'll never send you spam or Junk or ads, but we will start your week off with a dose of simplicity. What is the question of the week this week?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  What makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning?

• 17:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So not what forces you out of bed in the morning. Like, that happens to me sometimes, like, my wife's rolling over a bunch and it's 3 a.m. and I'm like, ah, I just might as well go ahead and get out of bed, right? That's not what we're... That's obviously not what we're talking about here. So before we get to our pithy answers, TK, let's hear how some of our listeners answered this question.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Karen said adventure makes me excited for a new day. What new and exciting thing is coming my way today? No matter how small it may be, there is always something to appreciate.

• 17:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Always something to appreciate. So adventure, that can sound really vague, but I think there is this sense of playfulness in her answer.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  And I love that Karen associates the concept of adventure with the small things. For her, it's not going on a vacation, visiting a new country. It can include those things, but it's, for her, it's the recognition of the possibility of adventure in the little everyday things.

• 17:58Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And adventure can be, you know, I'm gonna go donate some books today to the little local library three blocks away from my house. And I can turn that into an adventure. Grab my daughter, hey, let's play a game with this, let's see who can get there first. Let's race, whatever it might be. And now, all of a sudden, this thing that was seemingly mundane, something I have to do, is something I get to do because it is indeed an adventure. What else we got?

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Sheri said baking makes me excited to get out of bed. I'm not great at it, but I was gifted a sourdough starter, and I've been intentionally making bread and other goodies. Even if only three of my 25 recipes have worked, it's fun and my kids enjoy helping too.

• 18:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What a great point. You don't have to be great at something in order to be passionate about it, to cultivate it into a passion. I remember for the longest time I was an aspiring writer. I didn't write very much, but I aspired every damn day. I was so good at aspiring, but not very good at writing. And I think the biggest thing for me was that I was afraid that I was going to be bad. And then I started hearing things about like crappy first draft from Anne Lamont, the SFD. And I realized like, oh, even the greats have terrible first draft. Even the greats aren't good at it all the time.

• 19:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What's up with my expectation for perfection? Or what's up with my expectation to be flawless as soon as my quill hits the page? It doesn't work that way. You can be passionate about something, but you don't have to be great at it.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  That's right. And the way in which we pressure ourselves to be great at anything before doing it, trying it, or playing with it is a subtle form of consumerism. Because it's based on the assumption that I can only be justified in doing this thing if I can transform it into a practical benefit that maybe increases my purchasing power, or it's something that someone else will buy for me, or it makes me more relevant in the marketplace where things are bought and sold. And we lose sight of that intrinsic joy of making another human being happy by creating these wonderful experiences. And so I love that she includes other people in it. I love that she gives herself permission to fail and is trying new things. That's awesome.

• 20:15Joshua Fields Millburn?

  The other people part of it is interesting too. Because if you were on a deserted island, your ikigai is probably going to be appreciably different from if you live in Los Angeles, or New York, or Cincinnati, or Des Moines, or Toronto. Right? Because your ikigai will almost always involve other people. Maybe not directly, but certainly indirectly. When I'm writing, I am writing for an audience. I'm not just journaling. But I also realize that most of the things I write won't ever reach an audience, but it requires building up that sediment in order to pan for the gold that is there somewhere in those pages. What else we got?

• 20:55Speaker 01

  This one comes from Taylor. I wake up excited about my job. I am almost officially an architect, and I get to design beautiful spaces that help people do what they want to do.

• 21:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What a rarity in today's society. I wake up excited for my job. What a blessing. That can be, right? Because quite often it's, oh, I gotta work today. Oh, the alarm is going off.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:20Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Oh, I'm so tired. I'm exhausted. I'm tired of this job. I'm tired of my coworkers. And there's really no room for gratitude amid all of that sort of constant complaining. Even if you're not complaining to other people, we often complain to ourselves. There's like self one complaining to self two. We talked about that with Nicodemus last week. And it kind of feels like, oh, I'm beating myself up with these complaints. But the other side of that is, I can't believe I get to do this.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  That's right. I think do what you love needs to be transformed into a fuller sentence, which is do what you love to the degree that you are capable of doing so. Because we don't all have the same level of connections, insight, awareness of how to get there. And so I'm very empathetic towards people that are waking up complaining about their jobs and feeling like, man, I hate what I do. And that's precisely what makes me really happy for and inspired by people who say, hey, my life is situated in a manner that has given me this opportunity to do something that I'm good at and that I enjoy, and I'm gonna seize it. I'm gonna say yes to it. That's always inspiring to me.

• 22:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And the amount of sacrifice and suffering that goes into that. I mean, you can only imagine Taylor's gone through years of schooling and probably had to postpone certain celebrations and wins. Suffering in the moment in order to get this thing, this lifestyle, where I wake up every day and I get to do this. It doesn't mean that you can't feel passionate about it along the way. The journey is, it's not a race, right? It's not, as soon as I get to the finish line, then we're good. No, that's not, that's not what ikigai is about. I don't get out of bed so that I can make it to the finish line. I get out of bed because there's something compelling that's in front of me right here in the moment.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:12Joshua Fields Millburn?

  One more from Brian.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Brian says, I wake up and start drawing. I'm almost too excited about this part of my morning routine. If I wake up an hour or more before my alarm goes off. I think to myself, I should try to go back to sleep. But if I get up now, I'll have more time to make some art. I give into this urge quite regularly. This is one of the best parts of my day.

• 23:34Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Brian, this was my favorite comment. We had a bunch of people comment on this one, but this is one of the best parts of my day. Because I imagine that grumpiness, oh, I'm kind of tired right now. But wait, if I don't try to go back to sleep, I actually get more time to do the thing I want to do. Even if I'm doing it tiredly. That same thing happened to me this morning. I had significant trouble sleeping last night, which is crazy. Because I think for the last month, I've had some of the best sleep of my life. And then, of course, right before the podcast, it's like, oh, I just can't sleep. But this morning I got up and I'm like, at least I get to do the podcast today. Not, oh, I have to drive down there. Oh, what, traffic's gonna be bad? Oh, I'm so tired. Man, I still get to do this podcast despite all of the hardships that are going on here.

• 24:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And it reminded me of, we were looking at this video together this morning on YouTube. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. There's an artist named Jesse Martin. And the title of the video is "The Biggest Drawing Ever." And it feels to me like it might have actually been the biggest drawing I've ever seen. And it's one of those amazing zoom in pieces of art. And he's zooming in for a minute. So there's a drawing and then you zoom into a phone and there's a whole nother world there. And then you zoom into a house and there's a whole other world. And you keep zooming and zooming and zooming and it's infinite. In fact, it loops by the end of it. And what I realized is, I can't imagine how much Jesse had to draw in order to make that.

• 25:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  How many days of work went into this one minute video? Hours and hours and days and weeks and months and maybe even years to build this world? And yet, that is what Brian is doing now. You are putting the pieces together. You get up, you get to do it, but then also you're accomplishing something along the way.

• 25:21Speaker 04

  You know what you made me think when you were talking about how you make that choice? When you wake up in the morning to reframe what it is you have to do as something that you get to do? It reminds me of how some, in some cases, the apparent happiness of others is more of a matter of narrative than we think. I think if we had the ability to just jump inside the body and occupy the soul space of everyone who seems happy to us. We'd feel more disappointed than we can imagine. Because we'd realize that their life isn't as sexy as they make it sound. So much of what seemed to be sexy about their life is the result of how they narrate it and how they frame it. And we could see that when we occupy their soul space, ah.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  When you combine that with the way I frame things and the way I look at things, it really ain't that great. That's not true of everything. But I think there are some things where the difference between boring and exciting. I get to do this and I have to do this is really the person telling the story.

• 26:22Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Right. It's how I framed that. It's the same exact set of events, but it's how I see those events. And I'm really glad that Brian doesn't see, ah, I'm so tired. He sees, oh, yeah, I get an extra hour to get up and draw. And of course, we had Shauna and Ona and Amber and Kate and Magdalena and Barbara and, and Avalon and Adrian and Anya and Arlie and Meredith. And I think you'd add JFM to this list as well.

• 26:52Speaker 04

  Put me in there as well.

• 26:53Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And TK Coleman. They all said this makes them excited to get out of bed in the morning.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  Coffee! Coffee!

• 27:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes. Coffee and writing, but for me, like, that's the, oh, yes, coffee indeed. Now, you can read dozens of other listener responses over in the Patreon community chat. How about you, listeners? What makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning? Let us know in the comments. Okay, give me something pithy, TK. What makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning?

• 27:24Speaker 04

  The heart rises to love, not just to live. And when I speak of love, I don't just mean the kind of love that we sing about in love songs. I don't mean the kind of love that you date or that you sleep with, romantic love. I mean, that which has to do with that human desire and instinct to connect with another human being, to share with another person, to see and be seen by another person. I wasn't going to choose this because when I wake up in the morning, I am not thinking about love. I'm thinking about something else. I wake up in the morning for coffee. I wake up in the morning for the opportunity to learn. I wake up in the morning for adventure. But all of those things matter? Because of the opportunity to share them with other people, to complain about it with other people, to laugh about it with other people,

• 28:09Speaker 04

  to brainstorm it and fix it together with other people. And when I take away the people, everything else that I think really matters to me begins to lose its meaning. So it's love that gets me out of bed in the morning.

• 28:23Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Wow.

• 28:23Speaker 04

  Because that's what gives meaning to the things that do.

• 28:26Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Here's my pithy answer. Passion does not exist without suffering. We all know at this point that the root of passion, passus means to suffer. And so if I'm not willing to suffer, it means I'm probably not passionate about that thing. It doesn't mean I have to suffer. Of course, there's necessary suffering and there's unnecessary suffering. And I'm certainly not prescribing, you need to get out there and start suffering more, right? But we often hear this narrative. We had Cal Newport on the show and he wrote a book called So Good They Can't Ignore You. And the premise of that book is follow your passion is crappy advice. And we hear it all the time. It's on college walls and on success rate posters. And it sounds really good on social media. Follow your passion. Oh, that guy's living the dream.

• 29:11Joshua Fields Millburn?

  He's following his passion. No, no, no. He or she cultivating their passion, right? And that's different from following a passion. Following a passion presupposes that you were born to do one thing and one thing only. You were born to be an astronaut or you were born to be a yoga instructor or you were born to be a video game developer or you were born to be in manufacturing. You were born to be an account executive and you must follow that passion. But the truth is there are many passions you can cultivate over your life. And maybe your passions change over the years as well. Maybe your passion right now is drawing or maybe it's coffee or maybe it is starting a business.

• 29:56Joshua Fields Millburn?

  But think about it 10 years from now, 20 years from now. Is it likely to be the same? Maybe, but maybe not. And then it's also okay to let go of former passions so that we can make room for what the next passion is that we want to cultivate. All right, that's the end of page one. We still have an entire switchboard of callers to talk to on pages two and three. But first, real quick for right here, right now, here's one exciting thing that's going on in the life of the minimalists.

• 30:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  AB's over there on the couch. Her internship is coming to an end. It's almost graduation time for AB. Next week will be her final week with the minimalists. We, uh, she was in the studio last week with us when Malibu was gone. And, uh, she goes, "All right, guys, there's, there's something I need to talk to you about." And I could tell, AB, you're a little nervous. And I was like, "Okay, cool." I, I could already, I could smell what was, what was cooking already. I knew you had a interview the day before, uh, for a second job, but your interview went so well, which I'm not shocked by that because her interview with us was truly outstanding.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:06Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so she said, "They offered me a full-time position. It was originally remote work, but now it's out of state." And so in a couple of weeks, she's moving to Texas for a new career. Congratulations.

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Thank you so much.

• 31:20Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You want to tell us a bit about that?

• 31:21Speaker 05

  Absolutely. Um, so it's for a video game company and I'll be doing a lot of similar work, admin work like I did here. It'll be applicable to the position. So I'm, I'm super excited and like this episode, I think it's a, it's a good time to talk about that with the eeky guy and figuring out your purpose. And, um, yeah, I'm looking forward to this new venture.

• 31:41Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It, it's one of those weird things because I felt a twinge of sadness as well. But also, you know, me, I'm gonna walk away from anything, even when I feel that sense to cling. "But wait a minute, is there anything we can do?" No, it's, you, you don't cling and, and you let things unfold as they are. Otherwise, I mean, I would suffocate AB if I was like, "But wait!" And that would make that conversation really difficult. But I could tell that you were really happy with the way that conversation played out when you were able to talk to us about it.

• 32:11Speaker 05

  Absolutely. It made me feel so comfortable and I appreciate you guys so much for that because like I said, I, I've been given a space here where I can talk about anything and, uh, just have open arms all around. And that's not something that you get at every job or in any place. Um, it's, it's awesome. So thank you for that.

• 32:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You're welcome. And we're grateful to have you here. We're always grateful to have you back whenever you are in town as well. You've met quite a few people. Who used to work here regularly, whether it's Professor Sean or Jordan No More was in here last week, Danny Unknown a few weeks before that, Buella. You've gotten to meet a lot of people we don't work with every day anymore, but we still foster really great relationships. When we move on, it doesn't mean that it ends. It just means it changes from what it was into what it's going to be. I wanted to ask you a few quick questions about this move because it's a big move. You've never lived in Texas before.

• 33:02Speaker 05

  No.

• 33:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I'm wondering, before we talk about the move, what is the thing that you enjoy, one of the things you enjoyed most about working with the minimalists?

• 33:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, so we have some questions here and I was looking at them earlier this morning and I was thinking about it. And there was two questions that I feel like tied into each other, which was what I enjoyed most and then what was the most challenging part of working here. And I feel like the question, both of those questions kind of have the same answer. Well, they don't kind of have the same answer. It is the same answer.

• 33:32Speaker 05

  I think my most enjoyed experience here and also the most challenging thing is hearing different perspectives and being able to listen and and respect and understand and hear out every person for what they believe in and not feeling judgment. That's something that, you know, I think everyone at some point in their life, it's a juvenile way of thinking for the most part, being like, oh, you think that way. You're wrong, you know, I'm smarter than you. But just hearing, hearing different perspective and being challenged in that way has really added so much value to my life. And I feel like it's made, you know, the relationships in my life stronger. And I've been able to just let go of, hey, the way I think is right.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  You guys are wrong, that type of thing. I've been able to kind of have a new, new way of thinking since working here. So it's, it's awesome.

• 34:24Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That's beautiful. What are you going to miss about the minimalists or about California? You've, you've only been to California for like four or five months at this point.

• 34:30Speaker 05

  Right.

• 34:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so you're, you're moving out even though you really like it here, but you're going to Texas. What are you going to miss about this experience?

• 34:37Speaker 05

  So I'll miss you guys first and foremost. I, I enjoy our relationship so much and I just get so much value every day that I'm here and chatting with you guys. It fills me up, but um. I'm also gonna miss the weather, the cliche things, the mountains, the beauty. Even if you're driving home in rush hour, you still get nice views and Texas is very flat. So that'll definitely be a little bit of a adjustment there. So yeah, I'll miss that. I'll miss the nature. I'll miss you guys.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's, that's really it.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  What are you looking forward to?

• 35:11Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm looking forward to starting a new chapter and exploring more about myself, what I can do and how I can add value somewhere and apply everything that I learned here with you guys somewhere and also live with my boyfriend because, you know, what worked out about this job position is it is actually hybrid. It was remote, but it's now hybrid for me. It is located in Dallas, Fort Worth area, and that is where my boyfriend is.

• 35:40Speaker 05

  So it worked out. I'll be able to be with him, split rent. My life will definitely, you know, be awesome that way.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  You hadn't planned that at all.

• 35:47Speaker 05

  No, no, it's weird because in the same way that this worked out so strangely, because I was coming here no matter what, you guys know. I was gonna move here no matter what happened. And then this, this job, you guys sent out that email. I was like, hold on, I'll throw a shot in the dark. It worked out and same thing with this job. I was looking to get a second job and they were like, hey, we have a location in Plano. Come on down if you're willing. And I, I, you know, same thing, whenever I chose to accept the job here, I was like, you know what? Like, I can't pass this up. I've got to do it, you know, life's too short.

• 36:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What have you enjoyed most about working with AB, TK?

• 36:23Speaker 04

  Aw, man. Well, when I was little, my mom cured me of jealousy in the following way. She says, if you're the only one that likes that girl, then you're probably with the wrong girl. You want to like somebody that other people like too, right? And I think when we first brought AB on the team, I immediately was like, there's no way in hell she's staying with us that long. She's too darn likable. And she's just too easy to be around, too easy to work with, and just too cool. And so I knew this day would come. And there's nothing about it that's surprising. It's sad because we lose your energy, but, uh, but, uh, you're an up and comer and they, they saw the same value that we saw.

• 37:07Speaker 04

  And it's, it's gonna be awesome to watch you flourish. You're, you're genuinely a good human being who

• 37:15Speaker 04

  Who has a lot to offer, but you also have a good acceptance of your own need to learn. And you lean into that, you lean into that curiosity. You've never been to Texas before and you say, hey, look, I've only been to California for so long. I'm gonna go move to this new place. I don't even know what it's gonna be like, but I'm open. I'm willing to learn and I just, I just love that about you. Yeah.

• 37:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I agree, there was a certainly an openness there and also just a friendliness. Our guests felt so at home and you made them feel at home every time someone was here. And I'm really grateful for that.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  I want to echo pretty much everything that TK said, but, but also just really, really acknowledge you and, and tell you how excited I am for you getting to work in the gaming industry. Because that's something you and I have bonded over a lot off mic. You and I both really, really enjoy video games and to see you follow something that you're incredibly passionate about. That was one of the funniest things when we first brought on Alyssa and Matt is I looked at both of them and said, do either of you guys gamers? And Alyssa's like, yes. And Matt was like, not really. And I'm like, wow, that's totally unexpected. And she and I have had. Matt, you're fired. No, it was, it was wonderful to get to have that element that we both really, really enjoyed and bonded over. And I know you're going to knock it out of the park.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  We are absolutely going to miss you like crazy and miss your presence in this space. But we know you're going to flourish out there and I'm just, I'm just so excited for you, Alyssa.

• 38:42Speaker 05

  Thanks, Malabama. I love you guys.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  We love you so much. Thank you for your time here.

• 38:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So next week is her graduation. We were gonna have a guest here, so we wanted to do this today. But as she graduates, someone else is graduating. Savvy D, he's gonna graduate from intern to full-time employment with the minimalist. So he'll pick up a lot of the studio management responsibilities in addition to being our events manager as well. So he's actually out sick today. He, he called me yesterday, he said, I got a sore throat, but don't worry, I can still come in tomorrow. And I said, no, you can't.

• 39:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so he'll be back with us next week, back on the board over there with Malabama.

• 39:22Speaker 04

  Real quick, I've been calling you a business all this time and now you're.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  It's true, you spoke it out. I mean, come on.

• 39:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So good, so good. We love you, AB, Malibu, what else you got for us?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Here's minimalist insight from one of our listeners.

• 39:37Speaker 06

  Hello, everybody. This is Harry in the UK. Just wanted to say hello to everybody first. I hope you're all minimizing and achieving, or at least working towards your goals. I have a tip for people out there. It might be something that might work for some people and it might not work for others. It's worked for me. I'm somebody who often struggles with focus. I'm somebody who goes online, for example. My social media use is very, very minimal, but when I go on YouTube, for example, I'm bombarded with videos. The algorithm just gives me so many videos. Why do you watch this? Why do you watch that? What about this? What about this? And what about that? What about this thing? And what happens usually is we all end up just jumping around,

• 40:20Speaker 06

  usually watching each video for two, three minutes and 10 minutes later, you don't know what you've watched and it's just a complete waste of time. So what I would recommend people do, this has worked for me, is to simply, not just once in a while to delete all your history, your YouTube history and all that stuff, but also to pause the watch history and the search history. What I found is when I pause this, when I go on YouTube, it's just blank. It's just simply me there and it's like, what do you want to search for, Harry? What do you want to watch? It's not giving me choices because the paradox of choice kicks in and before you know it, I can't make a choice. So rather than that, try this. Now, before you try this, it might not work for everybody.

• 41:05Speaker 06

  For example, if you're big into music, for example, the algorithm can actually work in your favor because it can give you new songs to listen to and that kind of stuff. But it might be a better idea for me personally. What I do is I've got my own YouTube account and I log in for that specifically in which I only listen to music and stuff like that. Apart from that, I just simply go on YouTube and just search for whatever I want to search for. Anyway, I hope this was clear. So I hope you all well and I hope you all continue to keep minimizing and keeping and keep.

• 41:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Keeping things simple. So, thank you. Love you all. Bye. Harry, thank you so much for that thoughtful tip. We're gonna expand on that on the private podcast this week because the algorithm isn't always bad, as you point out, but it's certainly corrupting in some cases. I used to go to YouTube all the time and I would just search on YouTube the thing I wanted to find. But now if I go there without an intention, I can get lost in my glowing screen. So we'll talk a bit about that on Patreon. For anyone else has a list or tip about this episode, leave a comment on Patreon or YouTube, or better yet, send a voice memo like Harry did to [email protected] so we can feature your voice on the show.

• 42:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, that's the first 33% of episode 469. We'll see you on Patreon for the full maximal edition, which includes answers to a bunch more questions. Questions like, what are the nine emotional states? And how do I let go of unwanted emotions? What can I do to determine how much money, fame, and followers are enough for me? Why don't I feel passionate about anything? And what should I do about it? Plus a million more questions and simple living segments over on the Minimalists Private Podcast on Patreon. By the way, Patreon is now offering free trials. So if you'd like to test drive our private podcast, you can join for seven days for free. The link is in the description. And that is our minimal episode for today. Big thanks to Earthing Studios for the recording space.

• 43:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus, TK Coleman, Malibu, post-production Peter, Spire Jeff, Inspire Dave, AB on the couch, and Savvy D, sick at home with a sore throat, but he'll be back next week, and the rest of our team. I'm Joshua Fields Milburn. If you leave here with just one message, let it be this: Love people and use things, because the opposite never works. Thanks for listening, y'all.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  We'll see you next time.

• 43:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Peace.