335: 17 Year Old Stabbed His Twin Sister To Death While She Slept | The Case of Meghan Elliott

In the still hours before dawn, a 911 call pierced the silence of a quiet Houston neighborhood. On the line was a teenage boy, his voice shaking as he confessed to something unthinkable. Moments earlier, he had stepped into his twin sister Meghan’s bedroom. It was something he’d done countless times before, but this time, everything was different. What unfolded inside that house would leave an entire family shattered and a community grasping for answers. A tragedy without warning. A bond no one could understand breaking. And a question that still lingers: what really happened in the Elliott home that night?. If you’re new here, don’t forget to subscribe for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases: youtube.com/@annieelise.🔎 Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & PerksJoin The Club: patreon.com/AnnieElise .🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3WpfSP8 Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify: bit.ly/10TLSpotify 🎙️ All Other Platforms: bit.ly/AnnieEliseAudioboom📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: instagram.com/_annieelise TikTok: tiktok.com/@_annieelise Facebook: facebook.com/@10tolifeSubstack: bit.ly/AnnieEliseSubstack ⭐SponsorsMint Mobile: Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at https://www. MintMobile.com/AESKIMS: Shop my favorite pajamas at https://www. SKIMS.comHelix: Go to https://www. HelixSleep.com/Serialously for 27% off sitewide during their Black Friday SaleSimpliSafe: Visit https://wwwSimpliSafe.com/ANNIE to save 60% on any SimpliSafe home security systemO Positiv: So take proactive care of your health and head to https://www. OPositiv.com/AE or enter AE at checkout for 25% off your first purchase👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon 📚 Episode Sources ABC13 Houston | Court TV | FOX 26 Houston | Irish Star | KHOU | Law & Crime••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.10 to life,annie elise,10 to life annie elise,true crime,true crime story,true crime youtubers,true crime daily,ten to life,true crime podcast,meghan elliott,megan elliott case,benjamin elliott,benjamin elliott trial,benjamin elliott sentencing,benjamin elliott case,sleepwalking twin trial,sleepwalking twin verdict,sleepwalking twin sentencing,brother kills twin sister,sleepwalking twin murder trial,benjamin elliott full trial,benjamin elliott verdict

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:30Speaker 03

  Sentencing hearing for Benjamin Elliott. On Monday, he was convicted of murder in connection to the stabbing death of his twin sister, Megan.

• 1:37Speaker 04

  Benjamin Elliott was 17 years old when police say he stabbed his twin sister to death while he was sleepwalking.

• 1:43Speaker 05

  But the defense says no, it wasn't murder, and that Elliott was suffering from a sleep disorder.

• 1:48Speaker 06

  Is he the type of guy who's gonna mastermind killing his sister and then come up with some kind of crazy defense?

• 1:53Speaker 07

  You were trying to tell him you'd treat him with respect and ask him if you did the same to you.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:59Speaker 07

  What was his response?

• 2:01Speaker 03

  Leave it as I don't deserve respect and just killed my sister.

• 2:10Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Insulin.

• 2:34Annie Elise?

  Hey everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistically. I am your host, Annie Elise, and I am, why am I holding this like this? And I am here to break down another true crime case for you today. Now, let me just start with this. If you are brand new to this podcast, you've never listened to us before, you have no idea what it is. Let me break it down for you. So my name's Annie, and I like to talk about these cases with you in kind of like a conversational friendly kind of way, almost like I'm sitting down with my sister Amy and telling her about a case I just heard about, or you know, having cocktails with friends and we're like talking about all of the latest breaking details in a case that we've all been following, just more conversational, less clinical to where

• 3:17Annie Elise?

  it feels like we're friends and calling out the red flags, the shadiness, the crazy crap that goes on and just bringing it down, you know, regularly, if that makes sense. So if that's the kind of thing that you're into and you want to hear my take on it and that kind of delivery, stick around. And if you enjoy this episode, make sure you follow the podcast so that you don't miss future cases. Now, the case that we are talking about today, it's pretty interesting because first and foremost, I saw it come across my desk a few months ago because the trial just wrapped. And the more that I started diving into it and researching it, the more I was like, this is, I hate to use this word because I

• 3:57Annie Elise?

  feel like it's so overused, but truly diabolical. Like, we can pretty much all agree that most of us, I hope most of us at least, will go our entire lives without killing somebody else, right? I think that's fair to say, not only just intentionally, but accidentally as well. But we also know that there are cold blooded people out there who do murder people on purpose. Then they lie about it and they say that it's an accident. And it's hard to tell sometimes which is which, what is true, what's not. I mean, Colin Griffith is a great example that comes to mind. He was found not guilty of killing his mother and had cited self-defense, but then it came out that a year and a half earlier, his father had also died in what he called self-defense. But he said it was an accident, the jury

• 4:41Annie Elise?

  believed him, he was acquitted. What I personally think on that case, you can go listen to my episode on it and I break it all down. But my point in all of that is that a lot of the times people will lie and say that it was an accident when really it wasn't. And it's hard to decipher what's true and what's not. And that's kind of the question at the heart of today's episode, too, because it involves a person who died and she was allegedly killed by the person who loved her the absolute most. Yet, he claimed it was not a murder. I did not do this. It was just this horrible, horrible, unpreventable mistake. Just not even an accident, a mistake. It involves two twins and also involves a defense that we have never heard

• 5:26Annie Elise?

  before. Or, I shouldn't say never have heard before, but rarely hear. And it is murder during sleepwalking. Like I said, it is also a very recent case. This trial just ended earlier this year in 2025. So, there has been a lot of attention on this. And I'm gonna break it all down for you. And I want you to tell me, was this an unpreventable mistake? Or was this cold-blooded murder?

• 5:51Speaker 03

  What happened? So, it's a dream? And then I like, you know?

• 5:55Speaker 06

  Is he the type of guy, he's gonna mastermind killing his sister and then come up with some kind of crazy defense?

• 6:03Speaker 04

  I would think that there's not just no evidence of that, but that the prosecution has, has enough evidence to say that that's not happening. I don't know where the accusations come from.

• 6:15Annie Elise?

  Family is everything. Whether it is your blood family or your chosen family, I mean, it's the people that you can count on the most. For your highs, your lows, for everything in between. Family means everything, plain and simple. And that's especially true for the Elliott family. Because together, Michael and Kathy Elliott had built what seemed like the perfect family in Katy, Texas. And that's a city just a little west of Houston. And it's very well known for being family-friendly, this like nice suburban feel to it. And They had it all. They really did. Now, Michael and Kathy had three children together. Elizabeth, Benjamin, who went by Ben for short, and Megan. Elizabeth was the oldest by a few years, and Ben and Megan were twins.

• 6:58Annie Elise?

  Now, all of the siblings were close, don't get me wrong. But I think it goes without saying that twins tend to be even closer, especially when there's like three in the mix. They gravitate towards each other. So Ben and Megan were always just very close with one another. There's just kind of this unspoken bond between the two of them that, of course, comes with being twins. Now, they weren't identical, of course, obviously different genders. She was a girl, he was a boy. But they did still look very similar to one another. Now, Megan had auburn-colored hair, a mix of brown and red, and you could really see all of the different colors and highlights whenever she was in the sun, while Ben's hair was more of like a dirty blonde. However, when the lighting was right, you could still see a little tint of red peeking through.

• 7:40Annie Elise?

  They both wore glasses and pretty much had the exact same smile too. And not only did they look similar, but they acted really similar as well. I mean, they were both pretty shy and quiet, I will say that. But out of the two of them, Ben was the one who was a little bit more outgoing. He was funny, he could be sarcastic, he was kind of big on finding ways to make other people laugh. All while Megan was a bit more reserved and kept to herself. She preferred to not be the center of attention, to not really have people looking at her or focused on her. She was also very into art. I mean, she loved drawing, animation, she was always reading. And whenever she wasn't reading or drawing, she was writing, specifically poetry.

• 8:21Annie Elise?

  Now, it may not be that much of a surprise, but because Ben was a little bit more social and outgoing compared to Megan, he kind of saw himself as Megan's protector. Of course, they were twins, they were the same age, right? But he sort of saw himself as like he was the older brother, he was the protector over Megan. He was always there for her, he would always take her side if she ever had any issues or problems, you know, with a friend or a classmate. And the two of them almost never argued or fought, except on the very rare occasion when they would be like playing video games with each other and would kind of like, you know, spat back and forth or pick back and forth at each other, just like normal gaming or sibling rivalry. But other than that, I mean, they were just bonded together. And aside from Ben just feeling like because he was a little more outspoken and social

• 9:05Annie Elise?

  that he needed to be Megan's protector, He also felt like he wanted to assume this role because when Meghan was fairly young, she was diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum. So that combined with the fact that she was already so quiet and so reserved and shy and just kind of, you know, always into reading, it unfairly put a target on Meghan. It made her an easy target for bullies and she got picked on a lot, which we all know how mean kids can be, right? But through it all, Ben was by her side. He had her back no matter what. One time, Ben and Meghan had even been on the bus riding home from school one day and a few kids started picking on Meghan. But Ben, he just jumped out of the seat and started yelling at these bullies, just setting

• 9:47Annie Elise?

  them straight, saying, "Leave my sister alone, back off," and just like, fully protecting his sister. And it kind of warms my heart, but he was so passionate about protecting his sister that as he was yelling at them, he even started crying. He just, it was so emotional for him. And that was just one of the many stories of Ben taking care of Meghan and having her under his wing, making sure that nobody else would ever hurt her feelings or mess with her. So that's where things stood on the night of September 28th, 2021. Meghan and Ben were both 17 years old now, both in high school, and it was your typical Tuesday night. So the family ate dinner, they took turns hopping in the shower, everybody started settling in for bed, just getting ready for, you know, the grind of the next morning on Wednesday.

• 10:30Annie Elise?

  And Ben and Meghan each had their own room, even though they were close and twins, they didn't share a room. They had separate space, which is obviously very important for being 17 years old. So Meghan was on her own when she put on her pajamas, got under the covers and fell asleep. There were no problems, she just went to bed and expected to get up the next morning and head off to school. However, a few hours later, at 4:41 a.m. on what now was September 29th, 2021, a call went through to 911.

• 10:58Speaker 09

  Okay, tell me what's your name then? I'm J. L. Okay, tell me, okay, tell me, nothing happened. I thought it was a dream. I think I just woke up. And I'm still... And I think it was a dream. Okay, was there any help to you, okay? Okay, are you with her now? Yeah. How old is she? She's 18, 19. Okay, is she awake?

• 11:29Speaker 09

  No. Okay, I need you to look at her right... I need you to look at her right now. Is she awake? Yes. Okay, when did this happen? I just woke up. Okay. I think I'm going to help her. I'm going to go to the hospital. Okay, was her knee still bleeding? Yes. I still have her neck. I'm trying to... I don't know why. Okay, listen to the camera. I said all the way to the camera. And okay, I'm telling you what to do next, okay? Mm-hmm, okay. Okay, is the knife still in her neck or no? No. She's still alive, so... She's still breathing, I'm sure. Okay, just keep not awake now. No. Is Karen hearing you right now? Yes.

• 12:14Speaker 09

  She's breathing. Okay, is there any blood in her?

• 12:22Annie Elise?

  Now, I know that that audio is a little bit difficult to hear, especially if you're not watching the video version of this. So if you had a hard time making out the words, I just want to describe it for you. It was Ben, and he was calling 911 to say that he stabbed his sister Meghan multiple times in the neck. He actually said, quote, "I thought that it was a dream. I stabbed her, but then it wasn't." So the ambulances rushed right over. And when they got there, they found Ben still on top of Megan. He was trying to give her CPR. He was trying to do chest compressions on her as well. And he would not get off of her, so much so that they literally had to drag him off of her body. But even though the professionals were now there and they were trying to save Megan, it was too late. She couldn't be saved.

• 13:07Annie Elise?

  She was gone. Now, given that Ben had admitted to stabbing Megan on the 911 call, the police didn't really need to do any sort of investigation, right? I mean, right away, they just let him off in handcuffs. He was their guy. And given his behavior in the body cam footage, I think it's safe to say that maybe he was in a state of shock of some sort, or maybe at the very least, he was just very, very confused. Take a listen.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  What happened to her? It was a dream and then I like... It was a black...

• 13:38Speaker 10

  Uh, yeah, I do.

• 13:41Speaker 10

  I do. Do you want to work with me real quick?

• 13:49Speaker 10

  Yeah, come on guys, go this way. Right here.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  I don't know what did she do? It was just a dream and then it wasn't...

• 14:00Speaker 10

  What's your name? I'm sorry? Ben, I'm Deputy Partner. You're gonna be in my character so impressive right now. So, things play out right now. I'll treat you with respect if you stand to me fair enough.

• 14:16Annie Elise?

  Now, you might be wondering, okay, well, where were Megan and Ben's parents during all of this? I mean, how do you sleep through one of your children stabbing your other child to death, right? Well, as it turns out, Michael had gone to bed pretty late. He had been up watching YouTube until around 3 a.m. And then finally, he had fallen asleep. But the next thing he knew, there were voices, people, inside his house, talking loudly enough to wake him up. So he put on his robe, he followed the sounds of the voices down the hallway, and he noticed that there were lights on in Meghan's bedroom. But when he went to Megan's doorway to ask why she was still awake and what all of the commotion was about, that's when he saw Ben on top of Megan and he was giving her those chest compressions. He also saw Ben's phone near him and heard somebody telling him what to do, almost like instructing him on how to do these compressions.

• 15:01Annie Elise?

  So right away, he of course realized that his daughter Megan was having some type of emergency and that Ben was on the phone with 911. I mean, that's where the voice was coming from. But he couldn't really see Megan. I mean, Ben, again, was just right there on top of her, so he did not realize that not only was she covered in blood, but she was also covered in stab wounds. He figured that this was some kind of medical problem. I mean, Megan didn't have any health conditions that he was aware of, but it makes sense that his mind went there. He didn't see blood, he didn't see anything else. Like, did she stop breathing? Did she start gasping for air and her brother's trying to help her? Like, trying to make sense of everything. But as he was trying to rack his brain, everything started to come into focus because right away, Ben explained to him that he had stabbed Megan. Which is pretty interesting, right?

• 15:46Annie Elise?

  Because he wasn't trying to hide anything. He wasn't trying to pretend that this was anything other than a stabbing. And that was crystal clear to Michael. But it was less clear to his wife Kathy. She had a much harder time processing what was going on because she didn't see much of anything. I mean, like Michael, she was asleep at the time of the attack. And she had actually been asleep for a while because she had gone to bed much earlier than he had. She didn't even wake up until she heard Michael yelling. Once she did, she jumped out of bed, she ran towards the noise, towards the sound. And at that exact time is when she saw multiple policemen just coming into the house and running toward Megan's room. And they were heading straight there like they knew exactly where to go. They weren't wandering around aimlessly, they weren't trying to figure out what room it was in, they knew exactly what they were doing.

• 16:31Annie Elise?

  So of course Kathy's still unclear and like probably half asleep still. She starts yelling at the police like, "What's going on? Why are you there? Who, why are you in my house?" But nobody answered her. They were more focused on getting to her daughter Megan and getting Ben arrested than they were in, you know, stopping and telling her the whole story of what's been going on. But eventually she made her way over to her husband, Michael. And that's when he filled her in on all of the details that he had been able to figure out. It just didn't feel real to Kathy. I mean, she heard the words that he was saying, she understood what these words meant, but she just could not believe them. She figured, "No, there has to be some kind of mistake here." So she began begging the police to let her inside the bedroom. Apparently she had been trained in first aid and she thought that she could get in there and still help Megan possibly.

• 17:16Annie Elise?

  But the police would not let her in. They didn't really do much of anything to help Kathy or Michael. Instead, their full focus was now on Ben. And get this, just to like level set the timeline of it all. By the time Kathy was awake and trying to like process everything, Ben was already long gone at the station and being interrogated. And while they're talking to him and interrogating him, he said that the night had begun pretty normally, like what we had said before. He went to bed, but he didn't fall asleep right away, so he played on his phone for a little while. He was scrolling Reddit until he got tired enough to actually fall asleep. But then he said that he had a nightmare about grabbing a knife, going into his sister's room and stabbing her in the neck.

• 17:58Annie Elise?

  But suddenly during that nightmare, he woke up and he realized he wasn't dreaming. It wasn't just a nightmare, it was reality. He was actually stabbing Meghan. And in fact, the moment that he woke up, he was in the middle of sort of like jabbing the knife downward in his twin sister. So in other words, according to him, he had been sleepwalking during this entire attack.

• 18:26Annie Elise?

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• 19:11Annie Elise?

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• 19:48Annie Elise?

  Ben said that when he finally woke up and came out of this nightmare, that he wasn't able to stop himself in time before he had stabbed Meghan one last time. But then he stopped the attack, feeling absolutely horrified. Which honestly, I'm just gonna say it like it is. It probably didn't matter that he wasn't able to stop himself, because that wasn't the only stab wound that Ben had given her. Meghan had been stabbed multiple times at that point. Now, in a very- Graphic and gruesome detail. She did let out what Ben described as a quote "half scream." Now, at this point, the knife that he had just stabbed her with was still stuck in her neck, just like inside the wound, just sitting there. When Ben then went to pull it out, of course, it made the wound much, much worse because

• 20:32Annie Elise?

  the knife had been blocking blood from coming out of the injury. So when he ripped it out, she just started pouring out blood like crazy. Which, hopefully, this is never information that you need to use, but just in case it is, keep in mind, if you ever see somebody who has been stabbed, or impaled, or anything like that, and has a weapon still inside of them, do not remove it. Seriously, it usually does more harm than good. Leave it in there, it'll hold the blood in there, it'll maybe even start clotting it, like, do not remove it. Unfortunately, though, for Ben, he was just a seventeen-year-old kid, right? He didn't know that, he panicked, so he yanked this knife out of his twin sister. Then, he finally turned the lights on so that he could get a good look at what was going on, and what he had just done. And once he was able to see just how much his sister Meghan was bleeding, he went and

• 21:16Annie Elise?

  he grabbed one of her pillows, and he tried to use it and apply pressure on top of her wounds, trying to stop the bleeding. But once it was clear that the pillows weren't helping, he ran back to his room, he grabbed his phone, and he called 911. And as we also already know, he also began applying chest compressions around that time, too. Now, like I said earlier, by the time the first responders arrived, Megan had unfortunately already passed away. And it's hard to really know at what point she did die, but maybe her last breaths were, you know, that half scream that Ben had described hearing, maybe that was more of a gasp for air, or the last moment, I mean, maybe it was after the knife was pulled out of her neck, we don't really know. But Kathy, the mother, later would mention that a key word she remembered hearing the

• 22:01Annie Elise?

  first responders say among each other was "carotid." And my best guess with that? Is that they were probably saying that one of the stab wounds had hit Meghan's carotid artery. And that is one of the main arteries that supplies blood to your body. So if that was the case, Meghan very easily could have bled out and died within seconds. That is how quickly it can happen. So maybe when Ben was off grabbing the pillow and calling 911, he was just too shocked to realize that his sister had already died. I don't know. We'll probably never fully be able to know the exact moment when she died, but it was a chaotic scene. And I just hope for Meghan's sake that it was very quick and that she hadn't even realized that it was her brother, her twin brother at that,

• 22:44Annie Elise?

  Ben, who was the one stabbing her. Because I can't imagine the fear in that moment. Not that it would be any less fearful if it was a stranger, but just that level of like closeness and betrayal, you know? So all to say, Ben freely admitted he had stabbed his sister Meghan to death. However, all through his interrogation, he was also very clear about one thing. This whole thing, it was an accident. He had been dreaming. He was sleepwalking. And at one point, when it seemed like the detectives just were not believing him at all, he even asked one of them, "Have you ever had a realistic nightmare where everything just felt so real?" I definitely know I have. I have a reoccurring one all the time. All my teeth and my mouth are falling out. And I have to like literally like take my hands and like scoop them out of my mouth,

• 23:27Annie Elise?

  all the shavings. I don't know what that means. If you are like a dream psychic person, let me know, but that is one that I have at least a handful of times a year. So I know that feeling of when something feels so real, but when I wake up usually, my teeth are all in my mouth. Not usually, they always are. And so I've never woken up where it's like my nightmare is a reality. And let's talk about how believable the excuse of sleepwalking is, given all of the evidence. Because the first detail that's worth mentioning is that Ben did not stab Meghan with an ordinary kitchen knife, or anything that would have been really easy or convenient for him to just grab while he was sleepwalking. Because based on my research, it looks to me like the knife actually

• 24:08Annie Elise?

  belonged to his father, Michael. And one of my sources called it an Air Force survival knife. So that's the sort of thing that you might bring with you hiking, or maybe even... Even backpacking, I mean, it's supposed to keep you safe in case there's like a wilderness emergency sort of situation. It's very heavy duty, very sharp. Now importantly, Ben had also been kind of fascinated with this particular knife before the murder. I don't know a lot of the details about what exactly that means in terms of how he talked about it or how he behaved, but there was apparently some sort of fascination. And his father, Michael, gave different statements at different times where he described Ben as, his word, not mine, enamored with this knife.

• 24:49Annie Elise?

  He also said that he quote, "had a fixation on it." Now that is a pretty big detail to me for a lot of different reasons, because not only did Ben not go into the kitchen and grab any ordinary kitchen knife that was just there, he didn't grab any other sort of weapons that were just lying around the house. He used a specific knife, one that his father said he had a fixation on, that he was enamored with. And I'll get into more of this in a minute, but something else that strikes me with that, and I'm not trying to get super perverted or gross, but there have been many cases that we have covered right here on this podcast that involve stabbings. And sometimes, kind of like a pyromaniac, okay? Sometimes perpetrators

• 25:31Annie Elise?

  become so fixated with an object or a weapon or something that it stimulates them, either emotionally, mentally, sexually, physically, whatever. It's like a stimulant to them. And I can't remember the exact way to describe it, like what the legal or medical terminology is, but with knives specifically, it's almost as though, and I'm not saying this is the case for Ben, we're going to continue on with this, but for some people, it's almost as though the knife signifies their penis, if that makes sense. And that's why sometimes you see mutilation and things like that. It's almost like, again, I wish I knew the medical terminology and maybe I should have an expert on to say this, but it's almost like there's a satisfaction with it and this like

• 26:16Annie Elise?

  urge, and I don't know, I'll stop talking and get into more of it, but just to say, that's kind of where my mind went when his dad gave the statements of, "he's enamored with it. He has a fixation on it." That could easily mean he just likes hunting, or he likes whatever, but like, there's something about it that kind of- irks me a little bit, but you tell me as we continue. Now, because the Elliott family lived in Texas, they of course liked outdoorsy sports. I mean, their garage was full of gear, too. They had practice swords, BB guns, a rapier, which I never even knew what that was. And I quite personally hate the name, but it's apparently like this really long, skinny sword that was used back in the 16th and 17th centuries. But Michael, the dad, was also an avid hunter, so I would imagine that they probably also

• 27:01Annie Elise?

  had guns in the house as well, but none of those weapons were used. It was this particular knife. So was it a coincidence that this knife that was Ben's favorite knife was the one that was used to kill Megan as well? Well, it really depends on how you feel about his sleepwalking story as we continue. Now, there's a part of me that also wonders where this knife was stored. Like, did Ben keep it in his room? Was it in Michael and Kathy's room? I mean, it was Michael's knife, after all. Or did they maybe keep it somewhere else in the house, like a more public place? I don't know. And I don't know if the answer to that question really even makes all that much of a difference, but I would be interested to know if he had any sort of access to it, like easy access to it, or if he would have to go out of his way to find it that night.

• 27:44Annie Elise?

  And if so, would searching through the house be something that you can even do while you're sleepwalking? I'm not sure. I've only sleptwalked once in my life, and it was after a lot of alcohol. Now, for what it's worth, his parents, Michael and Kathy, did believe Ben right away. Right after his arrest, they even released a statement where they said, "We're still gathering all of the facts and the details of this tragedy. There is no question that Benjamin loved his sister very much. They were extremely close and the best of friends, so the family is asking for privacy as they process this heartbreaking event." Also, his more distant relatives, who didn't really know him very well at all, also gave public statements supporting him. And to be clear, some of them were still saying that there should be consequences for Ben.

• 28:25Annie Elise?

  However, they wanted the police and the authorities to treat the situation as an accidental homicide, not like it was a premeditated murder. And in fairness, the police also seriously considered this possibility. They even looked into Ben's medical history to see if he had a history of sleepwalking or any other issues with his sleep. Where maybe that could be a symptom. The thing was, there was nothing. At least, there was nothing that was directly related to sleepwalking. He had never talked to a doctor about sleepwalking. There was nothing in his medical records that suggested that it was anything that he had ever dealt with in the past. It just seemed like it was this new onset, or this new, you know, I don't know, symptom of stress or anxiety, or whatever you would call it.

• 29:09Annie Elise?

  However, his family was pushing back on that finding. They said, you know, yeah, sure, he never had sought professional help from a doctor, but that was because until the stabbing incident, none of them had realized how serious the problem was. But yeah, he did have a history of sleepwalking. And according to Ben, his sister Meghan had actually caught him wandering around in the middle of the night before. That had happened about a year before this stabbing incident. So sleepwalking was something that he had been dealing with for at least over 12 months at this point. That is, of course, if you believe him. Because as we know, he of course also did have a motive to make it sound like he had a history of sleepwalking. And it's not like his twin sister Meghan is around to verify what he said.

• 29:50Annie Elise?

  Except then, Ben and Megan's older sister Elizabeth also came forward with another story about Ben's sleepwalking. Now, this one happened way, way earlier. It happened many years ago, when Ben and Megan were around 10 or 11 years old, so call it six or seven years earlier. And Elizabeth had claimed that she and Megan, who had been sharing a room, sleeping in bunk beds, were asleep one night while Ben was in his own room. But then, during the night, Megan woke her up, and according to Elizabeth, Megan looked freaked out. And it's because Ben was standing in their doorway, just sort of hovering there. Now, since it was the middle of the night and all of the lights were off, all they could really see was his silhouette, so they were freaked out. I mean, what would you think if you woke up in the middle of the night and you see like a person standing in your doorway?

• 30:34Annie Elise?

  They also could only barely make out that his eyes were open and that he looked awake. However, he didn't talk to them. He also wasn't making any facial expressions. I mean, nothing. He was just staring, straight forward. Which I cannot imagine how creepy it would be to wake up and see your brother or anyone just standing there and like staring at you, acting like a zombie. You know, no facial expression, no movement, nothing. And for a 10 or an 11-year-old, that was probably a terrifying experience. For sure, the sort of thing that you would remember. And Elizabeth said, since she was the older one, you know, the big sister in all of this, she's the one who got out of bed and went to go see what Ben was doing. She said that she put her hand on his shoulder, gave it a good shake, you know, trying to wake him up, but he didn't react at all.

• 31:16Annie Elise?

  So that's when Elizabeth decided that he probably was sleepwalking. So she apparently just calmly and very nicely told him, you know, it's bedtime, you need to go back to your room, you need to go to sleep. And Ben listened to her. He just sort of like turned, walked back out of the room and walked into his room. But he still wasn't saying anything or really reacting to anything. And it was almost like he went through this whole process, like going to the girls' room, turning around, going back to his own room, without ever waking up or even realizing what he was doing. So Elizabeth said, when she woke up the next morning, she told her family about what had happened and nobody was really concerned. They all just kind of laughed about it, like, oh my gosh, that's so crazy, like, how funny, oh my, like, please don't ever do that again, you're gonna freak me out.

• 32:00Annie Elise?

  I mean, they all just saw it as a funny situation, not necessarily a dangerous situation or a potentially dangerous situation. Certainly not something that they ever thought that Ben needed to see a doctor over. Meanwhile, Ben, he didn't remember any of it. And to his family, that just made it even more funny. They were like, you don't even remember it? Oh my gosh, you're so crazy. Like, nobody was really concerned, though. Now, the police also tracked down one of Ben's friends, Agnad Singh. And he said that when he first heard about Megan's death and the fact that Ben had allegedly been sleepwalking when he stabbed her, his first reaction had just been complete shock. He could not believe it. But then, when he thought over it a little bit more and sort of started processing everything,

• 32:43Annie Elise?

  the story sort of clicked into place with some other things that he had been thinking about. Because it turns out that Agnad had also seen Ben sleepwalking.

• 32:59Annie Elise?

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• 33:44Annie Elise?

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• 34:03Annie Elise?

  About four years earlier, in April of 2016, Anad and his sister were having a sleepover at Ben and Megan's house. And this was a regular thing. Anad was friends with Ben, his sister was close with Megan, so it was normal for both of them to go over there and spend the night. Megan and the sister would, you know, sleep on a mattress on the living room floor, Ben would sleep on the couch, Anad would sleep in one of the bedrooms, but they were all friends, they all got along. And I don't know why the sleeping arrangements were that way, I don't know why Ben would sleep on the couch with the girls and then his friend and the guest would be all alone in a separate bedroom, but who knows? I don't know why the setup was made that way. But anyway, during that particular sleepover, Anad woke up and he wandered into the living room to see if anybody was awake or had gotten out of bed yet. And he saw that Ben was still laying down, but his eyes were open.

• 34:48Annie Elise?

  In fact, he seemed to be staring right back at Anad when he walked into the room. But here's where Anad said it got a little bit weird. Ben was looking at him, but it was like he didn't see him, if that makes sense. He was just watching him with a totally complete blank stare. And Ben also had a donut in his hand, of all things, and he was eating it, like, right there, just in the dark. It was almost like he was a zombie, just going through the motions, not really reacting to anything that was going on around him. Now, yes, there was a box of donuts sitting out in the kitchen, so Anad figured, okay, Ben got up off the couch. He went and grabbed a donut. He then climbed back onto the couch. He was gonna eat it while he was lying down. Nothing nefarious, nothing concerning, but in Anad's mind, Ben had to be awake, obviously, right?

• 35:32Annie Elise?

  He had to get up and go walk over to the kitchen and get a donut. It didn't even occur to him that Ben could have been sleepwalking that entire time. He figured Ben was just being kinda weird, so he loudly just kinda said like, "Good morning, good morning, Ben." And when he said that, it was almost like, within an instant, Ben snapped out of this trance. He woke up, and he looked all around the room like he was seeing it for the very first time. He was clearly confused. So that's when Ben apparently said something along the lines of, "This is so weird. I was dreaming of eating a donut. I woke up and there really was a donut in my hand." Apparently, Ben didn't remember anything about actually going into the kitchen to get this donut. He also didn't remember eating it. All he remembered was a dream that felt very real to him.

• 36:16Annie Elise?

  And once again, when the rest of his family heard about what had happened, they basically just laughed it off. It all sounded so silly to them, like, "Uh, Ben's sleepwalking again. This time he's eating donuts." Like, you know, how weird, how funny. And I don't know why they all laughed it off, or why they didn't jump to thinking it was something more serious. Maybe it was because apparently everyone in the family had a history of different kinds of sleeping difficulties and different weird sleep patterns. I mean, for example, the father, Michael, was apparently a very heavy sleeper. He was known at home as the dad who could sleep through literally anything, so much so that he would not be useful in any kind of fire or any other kind of late-night emergency. He also apparently had a history of sleep talking, which, sure, is not the same as somebody's sleepwalking,

• 37:01Annie Elise?

  but it's still sort of a weird sleep thing that is a bit more uncommon, right? Then, according to Ben's great aunt, there were also relatives with a history of sleepwalking and parasomnia. Now, parasomnia is sort of an umbrella term for all kinds of different sleeping problems. It links together insomnia, night terrors, sleepwalking, and... Just about everything else, if I'm gonna be honest. So all to say, Ben couldn't prove that he had a history of sleepwalking with his medical records. But he did have witness after witness coming forward to say that they had seen him in the past acting weird in the middle of the night, apparently while he had been sleeping. So whether or not he had a medical history of it, that could be arguable. He did have a medical history of sleep apnea, which in and of itself is a type of sleeping disorder.

• 37:45Annie Elise?

  And apparently, there have even been studies that show that there can be a correlation between sleep apnea and increased sleepwalking. So sure, his parents, yeah, hadn't taken him to the doctor, saying, you know, "My son is sleepwalking. Fix him, fix the issue." But like I said, you could also argue that he did have a history of it based on these witness accounts. So because of that, maybe it's not very surprising that his family stood by him and argued that he shouldn't be charged with murdering Megan. But I also think it's not very surprising that some people were just not on board with the sleepwalking story. A lot of people could not believe what the family was saying. They didn't trust them in general, as a matter of fact. They felt like they were simply in denial that one kid had killed the other, and now they were trying to protect the surviving one. And I think the family rubbed a lot of people the wrong way

• 38:30Annie Elise?

  with some of the choices that they made not long after Megan's death as well. Because right away after Megan's death, the family hired a lawyer, almost immediately, or at least it looked that way from the outside. That very morning, literally, a few hours after Megan's body was taken away, and while Ben went off to the police station to give his statement, the parents, Kathy and Michael, began talking with a lawyer named Dale Carroll. And you'll remember earlier how I talked about Kathy's experience on the night of the murder, how it was confusing, she was disoriented, how she didn't know what was going on, and that by the time she came out of her room, the police had already taken Ben away, and Megan was dead. Well, Michael told her that Megan had been stabbed to death, and that Ben was with the police. So that was all that Kathy needed to hear.

• 39:14Annie Elise?

  She didn't need to understand the specifics yet, she didn't know the details. Clearly, this was a very serious legal situation, and she knew that she was going to need help. So she picked up the phone, called her family friend Dale, who happened to also be a lawyer. Which, I'll be honest, I can't fault her for that, not at all. I think you want to get ahead of it in a legal aspect, right? You want to make sure that your son and your family is protected until you figure out what happened. And it's also not like Kathy was necessarily even thinking that, thinking, you know, "I better hire someone, because we're all gonna be in legal trouble here." She was just reaching out to a friend who could give her advice in this type of situation, because he was a lawyer. So Dale rushed right over to the house and he arrived at around 6 or 6:30 a.m. It had now almost been two hours since that 911 call.

• 39:58Annie Elise?

  But Kathy still didn't know the full story and she had a really difficult time explaining what was going on. She was confused, she wanted answers, and she was now asking for help from her friend. And while my opinion is that she did the right thing, I mean, you definitely should protect yourself and your family in these types of situations, a lot of people didn't really like the way that this was shaking out and a lot of people were pretty unreasonable. They were very critical of Kathy and Michael and they said that by them hiring the lawyer, it made them look guilty, I mean, to bring a lawyer in so soon, so early in the process. And apparently, a rumor also went around saying that Kathy and Michael were not cooperating with the police investigation. And that ended up being something that the prosecution later honed in on.

• 40:41Annie Elise?

  People claimed that they apparently wouldn't even let the police search their home without a warrant. Which again, if that was true, that was their legal right. There's a reason that warrant laws exist and it's specifically because people have the right to not go along with a search without one. And this isn't me judging them or saying that they should have done something different or shouldn't have done it this way, I'm just bringing up what was apparently a huge deal to a lot of people and it was being talked about all over the internet. But the thing was about this rumor is that Kathy claimed that none of it was true. Instead, she said that after Dale arrived, he talked with the police for a little bit and after talking with them, the officer said that Kathy and Michael didn't have to stick around anymore. They had already been around waiting awkwardly with no answers for hours by that point.

• 41:25Annie Elise?

  So apparently, they said, you know, they don't need to stick around. And since they had just been through something just so horribly traumatic and all around devastating, they decided to get out of the house. Plus, it's worth mentioning that they may have known that Megan didn't survive it at that point, so they probably needed to figure out what the next steps were. So they gave their house keys over to their friend Dale and he gave them to the police so that they could just go in and out whenever they needed to. But then somehow, along the way, the situation just got warped into this like gossip mill of Michael and Kathy being uncooperative. And it really doesn't make much sense for them to Be accused of not being cooperative when they literally handed over the keys to their house, right? I mean, that doesn't really compute. I mean, I guess technically, they didn't hand them over to the police.

• 42:08Annie Elise?

  Dale did, but still, I mean, he was presenting himself as their lawyer, so kind of qualifies as being the same thing. It's like them by proxy in a way, right? And not to get too ahead of myself, but Michael later testified that he didn't even know that the investigators had ever even gotten a search warrant. So to say that they weren't cooperating and had refused a search of the house, it just didn't really make a whole lot of sense, at least to me. It's also worth mentioning that Ben wasn't hiding anything. He was telling the investigators what had happened, or his recollection of what had happened. He also had just willingly given the investigators his phone and gave them consent to go through it, check whatever they needed to do. No warrant needed, no secrecy, nothing, just handed it right over to them.

• 42:50Annie Elise?

  So even though the complaint was primarily about Michael and Kathy, to me, it just kind of seems like all of this was another example of the Elliott family being really cooperative as a whole. You know, being cooperative with the investigation, with the detectives, with all of it. And in fact, Kathy ended up saying the opposite was true, saying that it was the police who were uncooperative, saying they kept her and Michael out of the loop, refusing to explain what was going on with the investigation. And not only that, but she says they did this for years.

• 43:26Speaker 11

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• 44:03Annie Elise?

  Michael and Kathy were in a very tricky situation. I mean, yes, they were the parents of the victim who was still a minor. And in normal cases, you would expect the investigators to keep them updated, right? But they were also the parents of the alleged perpetrator. So as frustrating as it was for them, I do also understand why they weren't getting all of the information from behind the scenes. The investigation comes first. Justice for Megan comes first. And if this wasn't an accident, if this was premeditated murder, they certainly weren't gonna, you know, play their cards a little bit early and let the parents know what was going on. The detectives probably also knew that this was eventually going to go to trial, so they didn't want to give Ben and his team any sort of warnings that could jeopardize the entire case.

• 44:48Annie Elise?

  So eventually, her mother Kathy felt like the only way to have any control over the situation, or to even know what was going on, was to bring a lawyer into the mix. So that's when Dale took on more of an official role in this case. Which you did hear me right before. This dragged on for literal years. And eventually, Ben did end up being charged with murder. And of course, since he still maintained that it was all an accident and that this wasn't premeditated, he pleaded not guilty. However, there was a lot of evidence against him. I mean, starting with the fact that he had literally confessed, both on the phone with 911 and to the responding officers, he told both of them, very clear, very direct, that he was the one who stabbed Megan. And there was also the fact that Megan's blood was all over his hands and body.

• 45:32Annie Elise?

  His prints were all over the knife. There were no signs of forced entry in the home that would indicate that anybody had broken in and killed Megan while her family was all asleep peacefully that night. I mean, what other argument could you have? Except, of course, that this was accidental. And it's not like there were ever multiple persons of interest in this case, which I'm honestly not sure what other evidence could have been discovered, even if there were, that wasn't pretty much evident from the moment that Ben called 911. But it seemed like an open and shut case, the biggest question being accidental or premeditated. But then there was the fact that the detectives never once believed that this was an accident. The way they saw it, for whatever reason, Ben had woken up that night, grabbed his favorite

• 46:16Annie Elise?

  knife, the one he was fixated on, and he brutally murdered his twin sister. The only difference in their eyes between Ben's case and other cases was that he never tried to cover up or hide what had truly happened. So all that to say that when taking him to court, they treated him as any other typical stabbing case. Only this time, they would need to study up on sleepwalking in preparation for the defense's rebuttals that were, of course, sure to come. So Ben's trial began early this year in 2025, and the prosecutor's argument was that the murder was in fact premeditated. Ben was not sleepwalking. He was awake, he was conscious, he knew exactly what he was doing the entire time that he stabbed Megan to death. The only problem was that the prosecution could not think of a motive.

• 47:00Annie Elise?

  I mean, everyone who knew Ben and Megan knew that they were super close, they knew that they loved each other. He had never given any sign of wanting to hurt her or no less kill her, I mean, certainly not. The best motive that they could come up with was that even though the two of them had been close their entire lives, one day maybe Ben just snapped. He flew into a rage out of nowhere and he killed her. He was fixated on that knife, he wanted to see what it felt like, he was so, you know, enamored with it. And I know, that's a pretty big leap to make, I mean, they didn't have any evidence to support that idea. But that was also true for both sides, both the prosecution and the defense. Both of them were making a lot of assumptions, making arguments that they could not support.

• 47:42Annie Elise?

  So it was definitely a case where the lawyers on both sides showed a lot of creativity and were telling very interesting stories. But neither of them could really come up with any hard evidence to help their argument. I mean, after all, Ben freely admitted that he had killed Megan, so there was no question of whether he had done it or not. The real issue in this trial was whether he did it on purpose or not, and whether he was awake for the crime. The defense covered Ben's history of sleepwalking and also talked about his relationship with Megan. And witness after witness said that he would never intentionally hurt her. He was her protector. Kathy also mentioned that her husband, Michael, was very into hunting and that somewhere along the way, he brought Ben on one of his hunting trips, thinking that it was something that they

• 48:24Annie Elise?

  could bond over. However, she said Ben was not into it. He did not like hurting animals. So from there, then the reasoning, of course, became, okay, well, if he can't hurt a rabbit or a deer, he definitely probably would never take a human life on purpose, right? I mean, that was the mentality that they were going with, with the defense. They also argued that Ben would not have called 911 and admitted to the stabbing if he was some cold-blooded killer and was trying to get away with it. The problem was with all of this is that none of it proved that the stabbing was an accident. Yeah, it showed that he was remorseful, or maybe very confused what had happened, you know, maybe he just woken up after her death, but nothing showed concrete proof that it was an accident. A sleep expert also testified that he had examined Ben.

• 49:07Annie Elise?

  And he found that Ben tended to fall asleep very quickly and very easily, which went directly against some pretty big claims that we're about to get into. The sleep expert also said that Ben had a difficult time waking up and sometimes would have whole conversations with him while he was still asleep. So in his mind, based on his knowledge of sleep and sleepwalking, it seemed entirely possible that if Ben was obsessed with that particular knife in his waking life, that he could have had a dream about picking it up and stabbing somebody with it and then stabbing Megan for real with it, all while still being completely dead asleep. And the prosecution, for their part, admitted that maybe Ben did have a history of sleepwalking, but he had never attacked anyone in his sleep before.

• 49:52Annie Elise?

  They said that it was too unlikely for him to go from zero to fatal stabbing with no steps in between. So that told them that this attack on Megan, it must have happened while he was awake. Now, of course, I was very curious about whether or not this was a solid argument, okay? So I dove into it a little bit more. And first of all, violence while sleepwalking is rare, but it's not impossible. According to the Cleveland Clinic, the more violent behaviors occur only after the sleepwalking episode has been triggered and is under. ...way, you know, during the sleepwalking episode while moving about the environment and the sleepwalking individual encounters somebody else, most likely a family member, and that the person may approach or make physical contact with the sleepwalker, then triggering a violent reaction.

• 50:35Annie Elise?

  Now, obviously, I'm no sleep expert, and the Cleveland Clinic isn't the end-all, be-all of sleepwalking research. But it does seem to me like it does depend on the person, that if someone interacts with them, or if there's some sort of specific trigger, that could definitely dictate the situation. But my only thing with this explanation is that if it's a triggering event that sets somebody off, and if you're using that description, I would have expected the story to play out more like Ben was strangling his sister in her sleep, or something like that. Because it just doesn't make a ton of sense for him to go into her room already having a knife, have a triggering reaction, and then attack her. Again, I'm no expert, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

• 51:17Annie Elise?

  I'm just trying to like walk through it and figure out like, does this make sense? Now, this next detail is key, and it is what has a lot of people divided on this case, because the prosecution said he had to be awake at the time of Megan's death, because digital records said he was on the phone roughly 20 minutes before Megan was first stabbed. The prosecution presented these phone records and was pretty much like, "Look, there is no way that he could have been in a deep sleepwalking state when she was stabbed. He was on his phone 20 minutes before. He was awake."

• 51:47Speaker 07

  Phone he used to call 911 is his cellphone. And you're about to learn some interesting things about cellphones. Cellphone evidence is obtained when a digital download or re-imaging of the contents of your cellphone occurs. For example, it reports data like when you unlock it. It reports data like when your display turns on or off. It reports data like when you lock it.

• 52:29Speaker 07

  If you have the help app activated, it records your steps and about how far you went with the phone. It also tells us what you search on the internet. It also tells us...

• 52:47Speaker 07

  What you're watching,

• 52:50Speaker 07

  it certainly tells us if you're awake on your cellphone.

• 52:55Speaker 07

  See, what we do know is that the defendant is on his cellphone watching YouTube videos and searching and browsing Reddit

• 53:10Speaker 07

  throughout the night.

• 53:13Speaker 07

  What we do know is that at 4:00,

• 53:18Speaker 07

  we start seeing him walk and unlock the device more often.

• 53:23Speaker 07

  What we do know is that at 4:06, he unplugs the device. What we do know is that at 4:08,

• 53:36Speaker 07

  he takes about eight steps for 18 feet.

• 53:44Speaker 07

  And then at 4:17, the device is locked. You're gonna wanna write 4:17 now. At 4:17, the device is locked, and that device is not unlocked again until 4:41, but he calls nine.

• 53:59Annie Elise?

  However, like the sleep expert testified, apparently Ben had a tendency to fall asleep very quickly. So, could he have managed to fall asleep and begin sleepwalking within a 20-minute window? I don't know, maybe. And remember how he said he tried to use a pillow to then like stop the bleeding from Megan's stab wounds? Well, the prosecution claimed that he actually held it over her mouth, and it was to stop her from screaming. Again, they didn't really have any evidence to prove that this was the case, but this was their argument. And I would say that the most convincing argument that the prosecution brought forward had to do with the specifics of sleepwalking versus Ben's confession and claims. As we know, Ben was adamant that he was dreaming.

• 54:42Annie Elise?

  It felt like a dream, like he was having a nightmare, rather, not a dream. However, and this is something I learned throughout my research on this case, apparently, when you're sleepwalking, you cannot be dreaming. Dreaming happens during REM sleep, and sleepwalking happens in non-REM sleep.

• 55:01Annie Elise?

  So there's no way that he could have been having a reality of a nightmare come true. And that kind of also goes back to the many times I've woken up from a nightmare and I talked about it earlier where it's like you wake up thinking it's real, but obviously it's not real. You apparently can't dream while you're sleepwalking because you're not in REM. So this idea of Ben simply acting out his dreams and having a nightmare that he was stabbing his sister only to wake up and truly be stabbing his sister, it didn't make sense at all. And it didn't add up with what we know to be scientifically true and what was brought in as scientific evidence in this trial, which I don't know about all of you, but if I was a juror and I heard that, it probably would have been a huge factor in my final decision.

• 55:43Annie Elise?

  So there was a lot of speculation on both sides, lots of controversy, lots of rumors, lots of gossip, and a lot of disagreement about whether or not he was guilty. But for the jury's part, it took them no time at all to reach a verdict.

• 55:57Speaker 12

  We called them from 1741609, State of Texas versus Benjamin David Elliott. We, the jury, find the defendant, defendant David Elliott guilty of murder as charged in the indictment, signed by the foreman of the jury, uh, printed by the foreman of the jury. Is that your verdict? Yes, it is.

• 56:14Annie Elise?

  At the sentencing, Ben's legal team asked for leniency and so did his family, which, remember, was also the family of the victim, his sister. Shockingly, though, the jury also asked the judge for leniency. And it's not every day that we hear that. And I don't think that that means that they were second guessing their guilty verdict. I think that maybe it was some sort of other explanation where they wanted them to go easy on this guy because of his age, maybe because of mitigating circumstances. I don't really know. But the prosecution felt differently. They wanted 40 years in prison for Ben and nothing less. In the end, the judge ended up siding with Ben, his family, and the jury.

• 56:52Speaker 12

  When assessing punishment, I look at many factors that help guide me. This is a wide range of punishment, five years, 99 years, or life. I look at the criminal history of the defendant, look at similar cases with patterns, then what juries have decided, and there's none. I mean, we could all agree on that. And I've looked. I look at what the jury has told me, and defense, they did not agree with your defense. I'm sorry, they didn't. However, unsolicited, they told me to be lenient with Mr. Elliott. I will tell you that. And I've told you all that when I spoke with them. I didn't, they tell me. I look at cases I've tried as a prosecutor, as a defense attorney.

• 57:35Speaker 12

  Try to look at similarities to see what I think is just. Look at mitigation in this case, and there's mitigation. He hasn't, there is no criminal history. He seems to be portrayed as a, as a nice person. I can't argue with that. I look at aggravated circumstances. The complaining witness, if she was young, she didn't deserve what happened. I look at how the defendant behaved on bond. I, I sit there and I've told everyone before. I, I see what people do, not what they say. And I just watch them and just to see what they're gonna do and he's behaved. We can't argue with that. I think about the victim. I have, I, I do, I do, I will, I have. I think about the victim's family, which is also his family.

• 58:20Speaker 12

  I think about the defendant's age. I think about rehabilitation, punishment.

• 58:26Speaker 12

  And I think about what I think is just and what I can live with. Because if that bottom line is, I have to be able to live with whatever sentence I give. And I take that very seriously. Stand up, Mr. Elliott.

• 58:41Speaker 12

  Jury finding you guilty of offensive murder. Your range of penalties from five years to ninety-nine, I sentence you to fifteen years in prison. At this time, you will go with the Sheriff's Department. Where your sentence will be fulfilled in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. And you'll get the credit that you have received while on bond. If you serve any jail time, you'll receive that credit as well. Is there any legal reason why this, uh, why this court should not give you that punishment at this time? Any legal reason, Mr. Rucker?

• 59:09Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 59:10Speaker 12

  With that said, please go with the Sheriff's Department. We will fulfill their sentence in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

• 59:16Annie Elise?

  Fifteen years in prison, meaning that he will be thirty-six years old by the time he gets out. Only thirty-six years old, I should say. Maybe it will be sooner if he gets parole or gets, you know, out early on good behavior. And even though a large chunk of his early adulthood will be spent in prison, he still will be able to have a seemingly normal life once he gets out. He'll be able to get a college degree if he wants to. He'll be able to see and write to his family. I mean, his life is very far from over. Arguably, your 30s are your best years, right? Now, given the circumstances of this case, I would say he got pretty lucky that he was not hit with life in prison, or even worse, the death penalty. Heck, even his defense team sort of thought through that because after his sentencing,

• 1:00:01Annie Elise?

  his lawyer was quoted saying, "We're very happy with the sentence. We think that it reflects what the judge thought was a weakness in the state's case, so we are pleased." But a lot of people out there are still divided on his guilt or his innocence. Obviously, the jury came back very quickly with a guilty verdict, but the witnesses had all said that they saw him sleepwalk. But then again, we know scientifically you can't sleepwalk if you're dreaming. So what was the motive? Why would he attack his sister? And that kind of brings me back to what I talked about early on in this episode. And this is just opinion that's out there. There is no evidence to prove this. This is just theory, conversation. Do your own research. It's nothing concrete.

• 1:00:41Annie Elise?

  But what a lot of people are suggesting out there, who do believe that this was premeditated and that he is guilty, is that he is a 17-year-old boy, that he became fixated and enamored with this knife, that it signaled something to him, whether, you know, I don't know if he attributed it to a body part or not, who the heck knows? But similar to a pyromaniac or people who get pleasure mentally, emotionally, sexually, physically, for different types of things, that this knife meant something to him and he wanted to use it. I also don't know a lot of the details about how quickly Meghan was stabbed, how deep the wounds were, if it was slowly, if it was like in a frenzy, what it looked like, but...

• 1:01:24Annie Elise?

  The argument out there, or the theories, I should say, out there are that he just became so fixated on this knife and that he's a 17-year-old kid, his mind is not fully formed, he's impulsive, he wants instant gratification for things, that he's possibly turned on by the knife itself and that he used this. Is that real? I don't know. You tell me what you think. Are there other possible motives? We haven't seen many. Or did the jury get this wrong and was this just a horrific accident? And is science wrong, I guess? And can you sleepwalk if you're not in REM? I don't know. Has there ever been a case about that, that somebody's been able to live to tell? I don't know. So people are still pretty divided out there and I'm curious

• 1:02:09Annie Elise?

  to know what you guys think about this case. It's a tough one because it's two young kids, 17 years old, one life has ended and the other is in prison. And is it just? Is it fair? What really happened? I don't know if we'll ever have the answers. So let me know what you guys think. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Serialistically with me. I'll be back on the mic with you first thing on Thursday with headline highlights where we break down everything going on this week in the true crime world. Until the next one. Be nice, don't kill people, please try not to sleepwalk if you can help it, and just watch your back. Alright, bye.

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