128: Why Men REALLY Pull Away—The Truth No One Tells You with Connell Barrett

Ever feel like dating is one giant guessing game? You meet a guy, everything’s great—until suddenly, he's pulling away. Or maybe you keep hearing, "You're amazing, but I just don't feel the spark." What the hell is actually going on in their heads? In this episode, I sit down with Connell Barrett, a men’s dating coach who’s been in the trenches himself. We’re cutting through the bullshit and getting into why men struggle with dating, what makes them lose interest, and what actually makes them want to stay. If you've ever felt like you're doing everything "right" but still hitting a wall, this one's for you. Get Connell's book, "Dating Sucks, but You Don't: The Modern Guy's Guide to Total Confidence, Romantic Connection, and Finding the Perfect Partner HERE! MERCH IS NOW AVAILABLE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Do you feel like your emotions run the show and react in ways you can’t control? Join the Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknowns In Early Dating from Sabrina and Masha Kay HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formally known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Welcome back to a bonus episode, babies. We're in the trenches today and we're in the trenches with Connell Barrett. He is a fantastic men's dating coach. I fucking love him. He is so great. And today, we're inside the mind of a man. We asked all of your questions. We got curious. But guys, remember, this show is only as good as the questions you guys send to us. So don't forget to send us [email protected]. Send your questions with screenshots, dating profile audits, whatever you guys need. Let us know. Send it in so that we can make this even fucking better for you guys. Just a couple of reminders and a little disclaimer. I speak fast. I curse a lot. I say fuck all the goddamn

• 0:44Sabrina Zohar?

  time. And if that's for you, fuck yeah, welcome. And if it's not, that's okay. You have every right to keep on scrolling and find a show that works best for you. But my thing here is if we're showing up authentically, then let's do that collectively. Guys, as always, if you need anything, everything will be in the link in show notes. You could join a course, which now includes free group coaching every month. So my coach Sheila, she's taking my clients while I write this book. And she is going to be doing every month, you get free group coaching with any course you purchase to help you really implement the material a little bit differently. And if that doesn't work, you can grab some merch, you can listen to the podcast. And all we really ask is just keep showing up as you. Share it with your friend. And don't forget to rate and review the show. I read all the reviews. So remember the kindness that we speak to with each other. But otherwise, I'm just so fucking

• 1:26Sabrina Zohar?

  grateful to have you guys here. So without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Fucking grateful to have you guys here. So without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Hey, Connell.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Sabrina.

• 1:38Sabrina Zohar?

  I am so excited to have you. Welcome to the Sabrina Zohar Show. Welcome to the studio and welcome to California.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  I'm psyched to be here as a pale white man from New York. Being in Southern California, I feel like a vampire on vacation.

• 1:49Sabrina Zohar?

  And when you're in all dark colors, I'm like, you're a New Yorker. I am so stoked because today we're really going to get inside the mind of a man like and I'm super stoked. You are a fucking phenomenal coach, author, creator, podcaster, and I'm just so excited. But could you please introduce yourself to the audience so that they can learn a little bit more about you before we dive on in?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  I'm a dating coach for men. I'm basically the real life Hitch if Hitch looked like the lead singer from Weezer. I'm a nice nerdy dude who struggled with dating mightily. I was largely dateless well into my 30s. And I had to figure this out. How do you talk to women? How do you get a girlfriend? How do you get dates? And once I figured it out, I said, I want to teach this and help men. And what I do is I help men connect with women by really leaning into being their authentic selves. No bullshit, which I love that phrase of yours. No games, no manipulation. I say to people, I say, look, I don't teach men to manipulate women. I manipulate men to see how fucking cool they are. I manipulate the

• 2:48Speaker 01

  hell out of men. And so I help guys get dates, get girlfriends, and I do this because I struggled big time. I was lonely. I was dateless. I was, I married the one woman who liked me, and she dumped me nine weeks later. And at the time, I joked that the marriage was over so fast, we had to fight for custody of the wedding cake. But I was laughing through the tears because I realized, you know what, I got to figure out this whole dating thing. Women just don't seem to like me, and the one who did just dumped me. So I had to make some changes.

• 3:22Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm so, thank you for sharing that. I'm curious to like, just even off the bat, like, we have so many questions and things that we're going to go over today, but I really just wanted to even learn a little bit more because what I see personally on my side of the street, predominantly, we have a lot of women here, right? Like shout out to my dudes, right? Whoever's here. But I think we see a lot of these misconceptions. We see the glass being, or like the grass being so much greener on the other side, right? Men have it easier. Oh, men don't have to do this. They're in control and they have all that. But I'd be curious, what do you see being on the other side of it? That would be the flip side of the coin. Sure, maybe there are those realities, but what are you seeing when you're talking to these people every day? Do you notice any patterns or any consistencies that men are also struggling with? Because I want the women especially to know, it's not just a

• 4:06Sabrina Zohar?

  one sided thing. A lot of people are having different lived experiences.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  I think there are two big problems that men and women both share. Men absolutely struggle with the core question of, am I enough? Am I good enough? Am I the kind of man who a woman would want to be with? So that core sense of self doubt, fearing that they're not worthy is a big thing. And I know women struggle with that as well. And the simple concept of how do I communicate with somebody? How do I talk to them? How do you flirt? I know that women struggle with how to navigate letting a man know you're interested. What's the right way? What's the wrong way? Men are petrified, petrified of coming off as weird, of coming off as a creep. So the majority of men are nice, solid guys who struggle with self doubt.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  And they're petrified of saying and doing the wrong thing. That's gonna get them either in the friend zone, but also get them seen as some kind of sketchy guy. So men get stuck in that between a rock and a hard place. And I feel that women have those same issues as well.

• 5:08Sabrina Zohar?

  A hundred percent. And I mean, I, I think what I hear, like the narrative I hear quite often, and I, I just, I, I struggle with it. All men are avoidant and it's like they're all, none of them want anything. And it's like just big, sweeping generalizations, none, all, right?

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:23Sabrina Zohar?

  But I'd be curious, in the experiences that you've had, what you've really seen? Do you see the other side of that? Cause I see a lot of avoidant women as well, women that are not open and vulnerable and men that are trying. And I was just curious, like, I, I really want to debunk a lot of stuff today, right? The games and things like that, like, oh, a guy doesn't want a woman that's too much in her fat, in her masculine, be in your feminine. And I think there's so much conflation, so much confusion that I can see why dudes and women, or girls, or girls, but it doesn't matter, they, why people are struggling to date right now? Because it's like, what the fuck do you believe? What do you listen to?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Right. I think part of the reason people struggle with dating is they're not sure how to go about it. They know, we're all moving toward the same thing. We're moving toward love. We're moving toward connection. But the vehicle that gets us there, there's so much conflicting advice out there. We are drowning in content and drowning in information and we're so starved for wisdom, which is why your show is so fucking badass, is you just hit people with these truth bombs every episode, which is fantastic. I tried to do that the same way in my own style. And so what does this come down to? What is the truth of what really works? And I'm not just saying this because that's my marketing. I really believe this, which is that you have to start by being really real, being what I call radically authentic,

• 6:39Speaker 01

  being vulnerable, essentially putting your true real self out there. I remember I had a first date once with a woman I'll call Maria. And her profile was Maria's on the beach, Maria's in a bikini, Maria's drinking champagne, Maria's giggling and talking about how she loves the nightlife. I'm like, okay, she's hot AF. I'll go out with her. We meet up in person and she's completely different, but in a great way. She's a smart ass. She curses like a sailor. She has sort of like a, remember Cameron Diaz and there's something about Mary? Kind of like guy energy? And I love that about her. And I said, can I ask you a question? Where was the side of you on your profile? Don't get me wrong, you're beautiful.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  I'm out on a date with you, but I would have loved to have seen a little glimpse of that on her profile. I would have been even more excited about meeting her. So I feel like the most important thing we all have to first do is make a real shift to being vulnerable, authentic, showing that real self. Don't give people a watered down version of you. Give them a shot of Jameson. Not everybody's gonna want that Jameson, but people who like Jameson are going to catch a buzz off of you.

• 7:49Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, I love that.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  I'm not sponsored by Jameson, by the way, for the record.

• 7:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Hypothetically, and we're just, you know, I'm not a drinker, but I know what you mean. I'm like, I'll take it through the vein. But it's funny, because... I think over the years, especially as I've been doing this more and like talking to more and more men, I'm starting to realize like it's a lot of the same problems. There's a lot of the same struggles. There's a lot of the same, you know, like even something as simple as the what are we conversation, right?

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:12Sabrina Zohar?

  I remember I had somebody write in, bless him. And he was like, hey, I'm really confused if you could help me. All the content I see on the internet says, don't bring this up, make the woman bring it up. Men don't need to talk about feelings and emotions. And he's like, but I really like this woman. Am I going to scare her off if I say that? And I was like, I literally wrote to him. I was like, if I could tell you how many women write in verbatim, the same thing. And I think what we see is like the masculine verse feminine, right? What do we, what is the narrative? The feminine is receive, right? Oh, you come chase after me. You come and get me. And I'm not saying that's how everybody is, but that's the norm, I think, right? And it's like that black cat fucking golden retriever nonsense that I fucking hate, right? Of like, be a black cat. And my mom even called me and she's like, black cats are feral. Black cats don't interact with other people. She's like, they're fucking street cats or let the man be the golden retriever.

• 8:57Sabrina Zohar?

  And it's like, but that's not every dynamic.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:00Sabrina Zohar?

  And I, I find, I'm so curious, like, cause you chuckled. I'm like, what are your thoughts on that? Especially with what you're seeing, because like, I think that we have, there are no rules. And like, I interact with Ryan, I would text him first. It wasn't like, I wasn't waiting, sitting on a fucking pedestal, waiting for someone to come and take me off the shelf. But I find that we're so polarized masculine feminine, how do I show up as this? Am I being too feminine? Am I being too masculine as opposed to, does this work for me?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:24Sabrina Zohar?

  Do I enjoy this? You know?

• 9:26Speaker 01

  It comes down to being overly worried about what you're trying to avoid and not focused enough on what you want to achieve, your incredible romantic dating outcome, finding that your person. And so we can get caught up in, in, well, I, I want to avoid turning him off. I want to avoid coming off as too thirsty with that woman, Maria. I want to avoid coming off as too much like a guy or a tomboy. But I would suggest to you that the person who's going to fall for Maria is going to be that guy who loves that tomboy side of her. Which when you combine with her other attributes, both physical and emotional,

• 10:07Speaker 01

  that creates this wonderful, this wonderful, unique cocktail of Maria Teeny that nobody else gets to experience, except the person who she is now, I hope with, whoever he may be. And to your point, I just feel like we're so focusing, we're, we're so hyper focused and we're trying to avoid that we don't just sit down and say, all right, what do I want? What do I want? Who do I want to be with? What is my ideal dating outcome? And how can I take proactive steps that move me toward that? And not overly focus on what we're trying to avoid. So I take my guys out for these wingman weekends. We go to bars, we go to lounges. I'm literally side to side, shoulder to shoulder with them, helping them talk to different women. And I was out once with one of my very first clients.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  His name is Ken. And we're at a bar called The Brass Monkey in New York City. And Ken is a nice nerdy chubby guy. He's an associate professor. He deeply, deeply knowledgeable about philosophy, about ancient writings. He, you know, most guys can quote Homer Simpson. Ken can quote Homer. He's that kind of brainy guy. But he had like a young, chunky Jonah Hill look to him. So he was insecure, never kissed a girl, never had a date before we first met. And we're at the bar and I said, look around. Who here are you, do you most find, at least visually, you're attracted to? And also energetically, but also, you know, who's the hottest girl here for you?

• 11:37Speaker 01

  And he looked around and he saw a woman and said, oh, I think it's her. But I don't know what to say. What if this happens? What if that happens? Very avoidant, very avoidant. And I said, why don't, why don't, instead of focusing on what you're trying to avoid, why don't you focus on what you want? How could you make her smile? And we talked about it and we figured out, I gave him, I invented in that moment, the karaoke approach opener. I said, what's your favorite karaoke song? He said, Purple Rain. I said, great. Walk up to her and sing the first five or six lines of Purple Rain and commit to it. You are on stage. So I'm a musical theater nerd and a performer myself. So I remember the importance of commitment. So Ken walks up to this woman, really pretty girl, cat eye glasses, think Lisa Loeb, right?

• 12:21Speaker 01

  And he walks up and he just belts out, "I never meant to cause you any sorrow. I never meant to cause you any pain." And she starts singing with him. They start doing a karaoke, a cappella karaoke duet. And by the end of their interaction, she's grabbing his phone, saying, hey, you better call me. I like nerdy guys like that. And that's I love that anecdote. I share that with my clients and with but with any single people, men and women, because I just want people to be focused on, all right, where are we taking this this cruise ship of your dating life to? What's the final destination? And sure, we have to navigate, make sure we don't hit any icebergs. But single people, all they see is icebergs. We gotta think about the destination.

• 13:07Sabrina Zohar?

  And I think like you're to your point, fear, fear is really driving the car. Like, I don't want to be too much. I don't want them to think this. I don't want them to leave me. I don't want them to abandon me. And it's like, all of those things are so valid. And I will be here all day to say that's a real thing. But I will be honest, if I wasn't myself, if I didn't show up unapologetically when our first me and Ryan had a first date, because I looked at as well, I might never fucking see this guy again. And I was like, so I might as well be myself. Right. I don't know if we're gonna never forget one of my really good friends, Fabio, he was at my house years ago. And I remember sitting there going, I just am too much. And he just looks at me, he goes, then tell that motherfucker to go find less. And I just looked at him and he was like, I'm tired of hearing you say that. He was like, you are incredibly, you're so amazing. He's like, then find less if this is too much for him. And I remember it just kind of hit me. And I was like, fuck, you're right. Like, I'm so focused on my core

• 13:51Sabrina Zohar?

  beliefs and being reaffirmed. And oh, God, but this is what my dad used to say to me. And this is what my family reinstated in me. And every guy I date, and it's like, but the reality is, what is the common denominator? It is us in the sense where that's my pattern, right? It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. It doesn't mean I'm actually too much. Because like, where is the metric, right? Or I'm not enough, or not worthy, or whatever, insert that in here. But I do find it really interesting to hear you say how many men also struggle with that insecurity on the other side of it. Because I see so many girls, so many women, just constantly being like, if I hear one more time, I don't want to bring anything up to him, because I don't want to be too much. It breaks my heart, because it's like, well, too much for who, right? For the person that doesn't have the bandwidth? Good, let him show you.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 14:33Sabrina Zohar?

  Question for you, because this is a hot take. And I hear this all the time. I have my own opinions on it. Intimacy, right? Hooking up, being intimate with somebody, right? However, we want to slice and dice it. I have to say intimacy for the internet, because it won't let us say another word. Okay. But which people ask all the time. But

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Making whoopee.

• 14:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly.

• 14:53Sabrina Zohar?

  In your experience and personally, professionally, all of those things, do you think that when you sleep with somebody actually matters versus their intentions or anything like that? Do you find that that that there is a metric here of like, oop, wait for the sixth date or wait for the eighth date? I'm not sold on it personally.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely not. It depends on the person. Everybody has their own unique blueprint for when they're comfortable having sex. And the other person has their blueprint for how they may or may not judge somebody who gets intimate with them. And I can't speak for all men, of course, but I can speak for myself and a shit ton of my clients and say that we don't care. We're just so glad you jumped in the sheets with us. Thank you. May I have another?

• 15:40Sabrina Zohar?

  That's what's funny. When Ryan and I first dated, our first date, I don't know if I had told you. We, I mean, I'm on Hinge, and so I was like, all right, I might never see this guy. I was visiting, right? There was all the variables. Everything was stacked against us and my dog had passed away. I'd just broken up with this guy. Like, there was no, nothing on the blip of the screen was like, this is your person? Which, again, I think that's because of the fact that I wasn't holding on to it. And so anyways, we went for a hike. We went back to his house to drop off the dog and get changed because he was like, listen, I'd love to take you to dinner. And I was like, okay. And I don't know why, like, for me, at the time, I'll be very honest, I hadn't been laid in like six months. The guy I was with before had erectile dysfunction. We couldn't get past it.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:17Sabrina Zohar?

  And I was just like, I have needs. And like, he had made a comment and he was like, I want to see what's going on here. Like, what are we working with? And I got on his bed and he knew the minute he came out of the bathroom and he saw me on his bed, he was like, oh, I see what's happening. And he came and laid next to me. Next thing you know, we were hooking up before dinner. We had like five or six times. And we went to dinner and I remember going home being like, you might never see this guy again, right? Like on the internet, what everyone says.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  You never know.

• 16:40Sabrina Zohar?

  Never know. And I left and I was like, you know what? And if I don't, that was really fun. I had a really great time. Called me the next day and texted me like, I have a smile on my face still. And I asked him a few months later, I said, so that didn't bother you that we hooked up? And he was like, are you kidding me? It was so much fun. Why would I ever not want to do that? And he was like, but I was also very intentional about knowing that you're not into casual, that like you're a woman I needed to get.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:02Sabrina Zohar?

  And I think. Like I share that story only because we're so conditioned because I hear it all the time of like they came on really strong and then they fizzled or I hooked up with them and then they changed after. What do you normally see that contributes to that shift, that dynamic? Cause we hear it all the time, right? Right after you hook up with a guy, all of a sudden you're like, suddenly you're not ready for a relationship and all of a sudden like you're not ready or then they ghost or whatever. Like in your experience, what have you seen be the reason for the shift? Obviously this is not for everybody.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:28Sabrina Zohar?

  But just in your, like in the past.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Well, my girlfriend and I, we were intimate on our third date.

• 17:34Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Frankly, I would have been intimate on date number one, but it was a Sunday night. It was chill and I like, I personally like the idea of a couple of dates that lead into the, you know, you watch a couple of trailers. And then you watch the movie on date three or four. That's not a mental rule I have. It's just my personal preference. That said, a previous girlfriend, we hooked up the first night. We met at a club in New York City, assuming it was going to be a fun one night stand and then became a four year stand. And at no point did I ever judge her or imprint some kind of belief that first date sex means you are not partner worthy.

• 18:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Are there men out there that have that mindset? I imagine many do, but probably a pretty small number is my best guess. I would say that's a small plurality of men. I'm hoping that's true. I don't have any data on that, but that's my hope.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  And what was your other question?

• 18:25Sabrina Zohar?

  More so, we hear this all the time of like, what causes the shift, right? How many guys will come, they'll be great for the first few dates, whether there's intimacy or not.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Okay. Let me answer that with a bigger concept, if I may. I want to share a framework with your audience that I've been working on for my, my guys. And I call these the core four. These are the core four dating motivators that everyone has in their system. For lack of a better term, they're, they're human needs that relate to how they, how they get motivated with dating. So I call these the core four, four romantic motivators. Here are the four. One of them is connection. We all want to connect. One of them is worthiness. We all want to feel worthy and special. A third one is growing. We all want to grow or we should want to grow into our best self. And giving, we all want to give. Those are the core four romantic motivators. I'm not saying they're the only ones, but I think those are the four most important.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Everyone has these in their psychology, in the way they look at the dating world. But the thing about men and women is women tend to put one in the top four, at the top of the four, most often, which is connection. Women tend to be focused on, oh, I want a deep connection and something that's gonna last. Many men, maybe even a majority, but a large number, don't put connection as number one. They put that, maybe it's two, maybe it's three, maybe it's four. Most men, in the courtship and dating part of dating, it's about worthiness. It's about feeling special, a man, another woman wanted me. And

• 19:58Speaker 01

  I know the dopamine hit that that can bring to somebody, because I was lonely and dateless and sad till my mid 30s. And once I started to feel the opposite, it was like, whoa, I need more of that. Boy, do I feel special and powerful, and I call that worthiness. So back to your question. A woman and a man meet up, they have one or two dates, maybe they hook up, the chemistry's incredible, kissing, making out, possibly intimacy, and he disappears. Or says, hey, you know what, I'm not feeling it. I didn't feel a connection, which is bullshit.

• 20:28Sabrina Zohar?

  Or the spark, right?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  The spark, right. Well, you must have felt a pretty good spark when you were inside of her, is what I would be thinking. But anyway, the issue is not that, for that woman who might ask herself, what did I do wrong? Or, what's wrong with me? What am I lacking? What am I missing? You're not missing anything. You're not lacking anything. It's nothing about your worth. What probably happened there, I know, because I was this guy, more times than I care to admit, he was looking for that sense of worthiness. And she was looking for connection. He got that worthiness from the sex, the chemistry, the make out. He got what he wanted. And then realized, I can't get more of what I want, the way I'm getting that, that romantic motivator met. He couldn't get it from just continuing

• 21:14Speaker 01

  to date her, because connection's not as important to him. And then he disappears or gets busy. But it's not about her. It's nothing she did wrong. It's not that she's not enough. It's that we have two romantic forces that are not aligned.

• 21:27Sabrina Zohar?

  I love that example. I like the way you described that because it makes so much sense to me as I'm hearing it. Obviously, I can see it in other ways, right? There's like psychological, but that definition makes a lot of sense to me because it really has nothing to do with, oh, did I do something wrong? Am I not good enough? It's like you knew this person for maybe a month, right? Like maybe you had five dates total.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:45Sabrina Zohar?

  And what I hear, I think more often than not, and I'm curious, the male, like what the men are experiencing, right? Because you get the other side of it. From the women's side specifically, right? Or in the gay community, right? I think it's like, there's a lot of crossover there. What we hear a lot is, you know, everything was amazing, right? I was blindsided and, and we were great, but blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, as I start to unpeel, I'm like, but were you having conversations of depth or did you start and then you start to see their shift? And then it's like, because a lot of people, very rarely are people running away from an amazing partner, but they're usually running away from the version of themselves that needs to become the amazing partner. Because when you're insecure, you're dealing, right? How many times I've heard like my own brother, he's 41 now, he'll be 42 this year. He's just now in his serious, like he's had serious relationships, but like this is definitely, I think the one for him.

• 22:30Sabrina Zohar?

  And up until this point, he's like, I didn't have my finances together. And I think a lot of women hearing that being like, but I could be your support system. I could be by your side and we could do this together. And it's like, but I think a lot of people are under, misunderstand, maybe not even understanding, it might be, just don't even know. That I think for men, it's different, right? As a man, if you don't feel like you are bringing something, right? Like you said, that worthiness. I don't care if you're the queen of fucking Sheba. If I bring you the gold statue, you'll find a problem with it. Because if you're not ready to receive and you're in that space, but I'm curious, what do you hear on that side of the coin?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  From men.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  The thing about these, this, these internal feelings is, is talk about decoding men is men don't even fully understand what's happening.

• 23:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Right.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  It's true, but it's, it's there. It's kind of like the male mind is like an engine in a car. You know, it's driving, it's moving, going from place to place, but I don't know what the hell is going on in my car. And women don't know what the hell is going on inside the men's engine, his mind. And most men don't either. I didn't either until I first started working in this area in my mid 30s, really my late 30s in a hardcore way. And so, so men actually don't. Don't even understand this, a lot of them until we really talk about it. But it comes down to that, that idea that everyone, everyone needs to feel a sense of worthiness, worthiness and specialness. What I've found is in dating, men prioritize that in a way that if you can help a man who you're attracted to feel really worthy and appreciated and special,

• 23:58Speaker 01

  you'll be able to perhaps give him what he wants, what he is, can also get from dating three other people. Or hitting it and quitting it and showing his friends the photo of the hottie he hooked up with last night. And I'm not judging those things, I really, I'm really not, but I'm saying there's different ways men can feel worthy. And if we can help that man feel worthy of himself and do it in a way that's about the two of you as a potential couple as you get closer, then you can give the man what he, he wants, that romantic, uh, one of those core four things. And all of a sudden, he may not want to stray, and that stray is not the right word, but he might not lose interest so quickly because he's having that core need met. And I know the power of feeling unworthy because I felt so unworthy. I felt so unworthy.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  The, a super quick story. So I never approached a single woman in my entire life until my late thirties. I was thirty eight years old and I hired a coach, paid him three grand to boss me around, walk around a nightclub in New York City and talk to women. And before we stepped out onto that rooftop bar in two thousand and nine, I said, uh, excuse me, I'm just gonna go to the restroom, I'll be right back. And I went into the men's room stall and I'd never approached a woman before. And I had a panic attack. I, I started hyperventilating, I, I started, I wasn't drinking, but I, I essentially puked up stomach acid.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  And I had a panic attack. I told myself it was butterflies, it was performance anxiety, but man, it was really, it was really intense. And I now realize, oh, what was happening was I thought I was about to find out, Connell, do you have worth to the opposite sex? Are you good enough? And that is such a core, universal question that we all ask ourselves. So if I could go back in time and talk to my younger self, I'd say, no matter what happens tonight, you're just talking to people, you're just meeting women, some will like you, maybe some won't for sure. And there's really nothing at stake here. So I want anybody who ever doubts their worth and value to understand that yes, it feels good when you can get it from that external source.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Nothing like that incredible, that man looks at you the right way. Um, that first kiss, that sense of wow, he really gets me. I'm not saying, don't let that feel incredible. Absolutely. It's part of what makes being alive so, so worthwhile. But I don't want people, I don't want single people to go through life. And their dating life, feeling like a solar powered structure. Where we only get that sense of warmth and energy from others. I want you to have that nuclear power center coming from inside. First, understand your own worth and value. And that way you're going to be warm and generating that warmth and heat. And if you get the heat from the external source on that date, fantastic. Now you'll be extra hot.

• 26:47Sabrina Zohar?

  It's sexy. It really is sexy. Like I've met, I've met men that don't know themselves. They're really insecure and you're like, I want to be here, but like, no, right? Like it's not a turn on to me personally. But okay, we have a lot of audience questions we're going to get to. But before we get to that, I wanted to ask one final question.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Honey, that flu keeping you up? Did you take Nyquil intense flu?

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Nah, I got this. Okay. I don't got this.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, you need Nyquil intense flu.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  Undo your flu with Nyquil intense flu. Nyquil intense flu provides powerful relief of your flu symptoms so you can sleep.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  You do got this.

• 27:25Speaker 04

  Nyquil intense flu, the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever. Best sleep with a flu medicine. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 27:32Sabrina Zohar?

  Outside of this, is there anything that you would like to tell the women? That they don't know perhaps about what you see every day? Or if you could be like, God, if I could just squeeze you, like what would you like to, what would you like to say?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  We love it. Men love, love, love it. When a woman starts a conversation with us.

• 27:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Or it makes it very obvious.

• 27:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  That she would like us to start a conversation with her. We appreciate it so much. Here's a quick story. I'm on the subway in the late. Early teens, I'm with my nephew and niece of all people. And this very attractive woman looks over to me and the announcer had just made an announcement. And she tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey, did you hear the announcer's accent? That was a Jamaican accent. It's like the biggest non-Secretary in ice breaking history. And I didn't care about what she was saying to me. I was just happy a really attractive stylish woman was talking to me. Plus, I looked good in front of my, my 16 year old nephew. Whoa, Uncle Connell's badass. And clearly she was making some sort of romantic icebreaker, I felt. And that felt incredible. I still remember it.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  It doesn't happen often because women typically don't do it. So, any woman listening to this, if you've ever thought, no, I can't talk to a man first because that would be too masculine and I would be coming off as thirsty. We love it. We love, love, love it. It could be as simple as, hey, excuse me, sir. I just want to say I love your tie. Or you have really good style. I like those shoes. It doesn't have to be something super sultry and romantic. It can actually be, can and should be G rated. Here's why. We are so, as men, we are so afraid that we're going to say or do the wrong thing, that we are going to come off as weird or creepy. And that, that is coming from a good place. Men are mostly healthy psychologically and mostly not awful narcissists.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  So the men who are the good guys, we just don't want to bother you. But at the same time, we can overlearn that lesson. So if you can give us a little signal, hey, I really like your outfit. Or you have a good sense of style or ask a question about our tattoo or something. Oh, man, we'll, we'll run with it. We can then take the lead. Some of us are afraid to ask you to dance, but if you let us know you want to dance, then we'll start taking the lead.

• 29:45Sabrina Zohar?

  It reminds me of Matthew Housier, like dropping the handkerchief, right? Like, dropping the handkerchief to let them know. I always did that, like, because I get nervous. So like when I'd see, when I'm single, when I see a cute guy, I'd do the like, don't, don't make eye contact, you're going to turn to stone. But I would usually find something of like, I remember starting a conversation so many times of like, oh, you have the new whoop. What do you think of it? Like, do you like the new update? And I could gauge, like, I had one guy, like, took his headphones, like, what? And I was like, just, you could tell, I was like, just asking about the, told it and then put it back in and I just went. Right, like, right back to my thing, you're not, you didn't give me the, the yes to continue this on, but I can't tell you how many dudes will just turn, turn and next thing you know, you're talking 25 minutes and you're like, hey, I live down this, do you want to grab?

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:24Sabrina Zohar?

  And then it just happens. It doesn't mean that it's always going to.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Cause I get this a lot too of like, where can I go meet like the men that are intentional? Where can I meet a man that wants what I want? And it's like, there's no fucking store. There's no one place that you're gonna go where you're like, here's where all intentional people that want a relationship go. Dating apps have them, in person you have them, but there's this weird fetishization of like, I don't want to meet anyone in an app. It's like, what's the connotation with it versus, well, it's just another modality. It's another way to meet people because being rejected in person feels really awful sometimes. When a guy puts their headphone back on while you're trying to talk to them or says, my girlfriend, and you're like, god damn it.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:58Sabrina Zohar?

  And you just feel like an idiot. It's like, so I think there are different ways that you could show up and not be scared to text first or be like, hey, I'd love to go out for a drink. Like, do you want to hang out? If they don't take it from there, not upset.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  If you're tired of the dating apps and you just can't find good guys, here's what you do. The next time you see a man out in the world who seems like he might be your type, break the ice in this super simple way. Three options. Give him a specific sincere compliment. Ask a question that makes sense in that environment. Coffee shop. So what are you thinking today? Iced coffee or hot coffee? Can be as simple as that. Or observe something unusual that stands out and call out that unusual thing, whatever that might be. I guarantee you that every single man will be appreciative that you did this. He may or may not be single and available and interested, but nobody is going to say, what? How dare you give me a compliment or ask me a question. It's essentially rejection proof.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  And what you're giving, what you're opening yourself up to is giving yourself and your future partner, whoever he ends up being, a rom com movie moment. I love rom com movies.

• 32:03Sabrina Zohar?

  I did that. I did that in a workout class when I lived in Venice. I remember being with my friends right before we went in and I was like, you know, kind of woe is me about my dating life. And we walked in and it was like, as you're working out, like he came in like a minute late and all of a sudden he was, it was all women. And he, so he's the one guy. He's like the six, three gorgeous guy. And I remember just the whole. Time watching him and being like, oh my God, I need to fucking talk to him. But it was, he wasn't giving me any cues, right? Like I wasn't picking up and which I'll explain after. But then he was at the front desk and I don't know where this came from. All of a sudden I just went up and I was like, so the only straight guy in a sculpt class, huh? And he just turns around. He's like, so you saw me struggling and that was it. Just then next thing you know, we're talking. 20 minutes later, we find all these commonalities. We ended up spending the weekend together. I went to fit like.

• 32:45Sabrina Zohar?

  The show goes on, right? To your point, he wasn't emotionally available. Like he enjoyed that moment. We had a great time and then that was it. It was the end of this little situation and it taught me a lot. But I asked him later, I said, why didn't you approach me? And he was like, it felt uncomfortable. He's like, I'm in a workout class. It feels like that's not appropriate. I don't want you to feel objectified. He's like, I saw you, but I wasn't going to make it a thing. And he was like, and I just figured if somebody wants to talk to me, they will. And it's really where I stopped and I was like, there was nothing negative about me going up because then he got my number. He called me that afternoon. He planned the date. We went out like. He took the reins, but he needed me to drop the handkerchief to let him know, hey, you can talk to me. Otherwise, what happens? I leave going, oh my God, but who is he? How can I find him? I'm never go, right?

• 33:25Sabrina Zohar?

  I would never have probably connected with this guy because he just so happened to be at that workout class, the one time that I went in.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Beautiful. Drop that handkerchief. And I love that because again, the thing that stops men from approaching women. Is that fear of if it goes wrong or she doesn't like it, I'm unworthy. Or I'm a creep and a weirdo, which is another form of unworthy.

• 33:43Sabrina Zohar?

  Cancelled, right?

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Right. I coached a firefighter in Texas. And this man is one of the most, the most, the bravest person I've ever met. He runs into burning houses. He wants, he was once in a burning house and fell through the kitchen floor, wasn't seriously hurt. And he does that routinely. That's his day job. He could not turn to a woman to his right at a bar and say, hi.

• 34:06Sabrina Zohar?

  Right.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  But he can walk in to a fire situation and, and not even think about his safety. So those forces that push back are strong, but we can break through them and you can help men do that by giving him. Asking a question and giving a compliment or doing what you did, which is making an observation. Oh, the only straight guy here. Perfect.

• 34:23Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  That's perfect. And then he, you and he ran with it as far as it went. And then at least an opportunity was open. The door was opened.

• 34:30Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly. All right, let's get into a question, shall we?

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:33Sabrina Zohar?

  Hello, hello, hello, in the trenches team. Oh, I love it. Okay. I recently relocated to a new city and I've been making an effort to put myself out there and go on dates through Hinge. I'm a 30-year-old entrepreneur. He's easy to talk to and decently attractive. After, although after the first and second date, they text me saying they have a great time, there just isn't a romantic spark. So it stops. I understand not everyone you go on a date with will automatically have chemistry with, but I'm seeing a trend and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I share too much about myself too fast, take the mystery out of getting to know me. Any advice would be appreciated. Jake.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Jake, great question, Jake. Okay. So if you get the whole, I'm just not feeling it, the dreaded friend zone, then you want to look at two things. You want to ask yourself, did I walk up these, what I call these romantic escalators? Did you ride up these different escalators? And basically, did you flirt? Did you make a move or two? Did you give her a verbal compliment, clearly showing that you liked her? Saying, hey, you're charming, you're sexy, you're cool as fuck, whatever it might be. Did you touch her? Or did you treat her like she's your second cousin? And, or the nun, like, from grade school? Did you have a little bit of physical touch and also some non-verbal things? Did you say, ah, yeah, great, uh-huh, great?

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Or did you say, I'm sorry, I, you distracted me there. I was looking at the way you were just biting your lip. Sorry, what was that? Did you, did you use your voice and eye contact? Basically, did you put some moves on, right? If Jake is not putting the moves on, he just has to essentially lead the flirting dance with more intentionality. If he did those things, if he did those things within reason and he got the whole, hey, I'm just not feeling it, then that there's nothing that Jake can do differently. It might just be that she sees him as the Beatles and he's the Stones, but Stones fucking rock. It's just different, you know, she's, she likes tacos and he's pizza. What's most likely is he's probably literally or figuratively sitting on his hands,

• 36:26Speaker 01

  not flirting, not doing what I call man-to-woman communication, which is, I'm a man, you're a woman, let's, let's communicate that way and see if we have a spark. He's probably being really safe and treating her more like a friend.

• 36:36Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, I would say, because especially when he said, I'm not, maybe I'm sharing too fast, take the mystery out of getting to know me, and it's like,

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, no mystery. Don't work. Fuck mystery.

• 36:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly. I was gonna say, what also could be is like, here's the kind of like the monkey wrench is like, some people aren't ready to receive that, right? There are some people like, I have been her in my shit. When I was in my heyday, we're like the unavailable, like the tall, attractive, right? That was my type. I'm not saying everyone has to date fucking the same kind of person. But I had, this is what I want. So when I met somebody that was great to me, nice to me, there was no guessing game. It was my core belief. I was like, I'm not worthy of those, right? Like, this is too easy. No, then you must not be anything. And that could sometimes, I'm like, I don't know, right? That's the thing. We don't know what the other person's experience is.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:16Sabrina Zohar?

  But I would say a couple of things for him. One, I would look at like, are we being a better buyer, right? Like, what are the connection points? If you're on Hinge and you're matching, it's like, listen, you're gonna have shit ton of dates. Let me just say, as a, I lived in New York for 12 years. The amount, I don't, I can't count on my hands how many dates I went on anymore. Like, it's beyond me. And then when I moved to LA, every night, right? You're going on a date, you're going, there are gonna be so many people that aren't gonna work for you. And it's totally normal, but like you said, if there's a pattern and we're starting to see what's happening. Is that what you usually see, like when people get friends out or like, I'm not feeling the spark? Is that normally what you see where there's like a disconnect with the way they're flirting or connecting?

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes. Uh, I keep, I, I hear from guys saying, oh, I keep, I, I keep getting the whole, I'm not feeling it thing. And I'm like, well, when did you go for the first kiss? I'm waiting until date four. Like, jeez, why don't you just date women at a nunnery if that's your, your move? I mean, come on, it's, it's dating, it's a dance. Go for something, doesn't it? I'm not saying, uh, go for some quick make out five minutes in or do something to make her uncomfortable. But dating's a dance. Leave that dance with some flirtatious energy.

• 38:17Sabrina Zohar?

  I love a touch, even just like on the shoulder, right? Like if on the, like some kind of like, I'm here with you.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:23Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm with you. Okay. Ready for another?

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 38:25Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. I found your videos on Instagram and holy shit, they've been transformative. Thank you. I swear I don't have these on. So if you knew a situation I may, that you may be able to get some context out of. So right around Christmas, I met someone online. She became, I think this is a Bentley, it's a Manta, might be a, uh, this is perfect.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. Right around Christmas, I met someone online. She became a widow last year and I left a relationship in mid-October. The intention was just friends. Okay. As we exchanged messages, we noticed a connection and exchanged numbers. We texting became making plans to hang out. After hanging out the first time, we noticed that this may be more than friends. We decided to explore these feelings and went on a date and they've been great. The two of us had a conversation about continuing to exploring, explore things, express that we wouldn't date anyone else and continue to look, take things slow, given our situation. I guess you could call it soft commitment. Okay. Fast forward to last weekend when I got a message from her expressing that she may be slow to responding to me. She went through her husband's stuff to get rid of, stirred up some emotions. She expressed that she didn't know what, where that left us. I told her to take the time that she needs and to reflect on it, expressed how there were probably a ton of conflicting

• 39:24Sabrina Zohar?

  emotions that I can't begin to imagine, expressed how I would give her space by not texting during this time, because I didn't want her to think I was a nuisance or try to influence her decision. Told her that the lack of contact wasn't the lack of interest, but putting her needs in front of my own, and that I don't expect her to be fully healed, but if she takes some steps towards healing, that I'll be more than happy to continue things if she chooses me. Basically, I'm not going anywhere and to take the time she needs to sort it out. She was appreciative of what I said. In the meanwhile, I've been reading about dating as a widow to gain some insights into what she is going through. Six months ago, there would have been an anxious attachment and I probably would just text for the sake of texting to get validation. Going from texting all the time to zero communication has been jarring, but I want to respect the space and not put pressure on her because I don't want to fumble this. I've had weak moments where I tried to put stock if she liked Instagram stories that I posted. Thankfully, I was just able to remind myself that it wasn't

• 40:06Sabrina Zohar?

  indicative of her feelings about us. Just like, just that she liked whatever the hell it was that I posted. It hasn't been easy because, can I talk? It hasn't been easy because anxiety and ego want to rear their ugly head. I had to remind myself that those feelings won't get me anywhere. If things don't work out, that's fine, but I don't want to be doing things I sabotage. Anyways, that is the fucking minefield that I'm navigating. So, I want your thoughts, because I've dated a widow. I understand this. What did you hear?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Bentley is the male writer. One of the cliches we hear a lot in dating is, "I'm just not ready to date," which is usually code for, "I'm not feeling about you the way I want to feel." In this case, I'm hearing that that, actually, in this case, that is true. She's still dealing with the loss of her husband, and this might sound like counterintuitive advice considering what I said in the last segment, but be her friend, or offer her friendship. I think the core male-female connection can and should involve just simple human friendship, being there as a person. And if she is not looking to date or needs to take a break from their, the path of romance that they were on, then a friend would say, "I totally understand. I'm here for you as a friend to talk

• 41:16Speaker 01

  to you if and when you want to, or if you need space, I'm here for that as well."

• 41:20Sabrina Zohar?

  I dated a widow once. It was like three years after she had passed, but nonetheless, like it's still really tough. He had a daughter with her and everything. So like, I understood that. She has cancer. So like, she was like thirty. It was like, it was so sad. And I remember when we first dated, like, he was super gung ho. And then like, we had, we were like finally intimate and, you know, things were getting like progressing and we were starting to have different conversations about where we were going. And he called me one day and he was panic attack, full on. And I get it. Like, I don't think, I mean, he stayed single for like two years after, so I don't think it was another girl. But he was very honest and he was like, there's a guilt. He was like, for me to move on right now and see a woman. And he was like, I have to potentially like put her photos away now. And he was like, I'm not ready to let go of her and the fact that she's my daughter, my, like my daughter's mother.

• 42:01Sabrina Zohar?

  And I completely respected that. And to this day, like he even reached out recently and was like, I think this is like becoming a problem for me. And I was like, oh, it is a hundred percent. But I think to your point, nuance is important, right? Because like, if I got that message, of course, I'd be like, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Even if it's, even if we want to say, but are they full of shit? You know what? If that, if they're full of shit, karmically let that take care of them. Right? If you're gonna use this, like I had a guy once, I'll never forget. We were supposed to go out. This was like twenty fourteen. We had gone, he was the bartender at my bar in Williamsburg. Matchless. Match, matchless, matchbox, match? I don't remember. I thought it was matchless, but I could be totally making this up. But it was a bar in Williamsburg that closed a while ago. And shout out to anybody who can figure this out. And we, like, he was the type of like, I saw him and I was like, oh, my God, he was my wet dream.

• 42:46Sabrina Zohar?

  And we dated, we went on like eight or nine dates. Like, we were like hanging out a lot. Like, we, he would sleep over, like, we were hooking up, we were going out, I was meeting his friends, like, it was like two months of like spending a good amount of time together. And then we were supposed to go away. And like, I got an Airbnb, my brother had given me his car. So I was, you know, it's New York, you're like, I finally have a car, like, let's go upstate. And we had, everything was planned, like booked, confirmed, great. Night before, I get a text from him, my friend with a brain cancer is in the hospital and I need to be with him. I'm sorry, I can't go tomorrow. And I remember just looking at my sister and she just like looked at him and she goes, here's the thing, if he's lying, he's an asshole. But if he's not, you're the asshole. And so she was like, what you can say is, I'm so sorry to hear, like, right? If you need anything. Sure enough, he got a girlfriend two weeks later.

• 43:29Sabrina Zohar?

  And so I, then in the, in the hindsight, you're like, okay, so you just use an excuse and all that. But it's like, what was I gonna do in that moment? Be like, you're fucking lying to me? Let me see the receipts? It's like, sometimes you just have to say, you know what? If that person couldn't just be honest and say they weren't feeling it, that's okay. They had to use an excuse. I don't believe that this woman's using this as an excuse.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  I don't either. I know this is a game of telephone to an extent, but everything Bentley describes sounds completely genuine and real and you just give her love, not the romantic love. You give her friendship, love, human love and say, hey, I'm here for you if and when you're ready to, for anything. My, my dating coach advice to Bentley would be, hey, uh, let's not get too caught up in any one woman until it's right to start falling for them. So I would say if you are still single, then go out and mingle.

• 44:17Sabrina Zohar?

  I mean, I would definitely say that honestly to my girls, my guys, my vays, I don't care to anybody. Like I hear this, like they were great for a week or two weeks or three weeks and then they completely shifted and I was blindsided. It's like even two months, three months, you don't know this person.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:29Sabrina Zohar?

  You're still getting to know them. We need to see consistency over time, not just, oh, well, for two weeks they were great and then they suddenly shifted. It's like suddenly they weren't consistent. Right?

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:39Sabrina Zohar?

  You want to do a profile?

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:40Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Let's talk.

• 44:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Hey, Sabrina and Connell, I want to add some context to my profile. I haven't been getting the kinds of matches that I want. I want someone with depth and committed to their faith, Christianity in parentheses.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:50Sabrina Zohar?

  I've been struggling with finding how to represent, I'm sorry, how to present my depth in an approachable way. My guy friends told me I had too much writing on my profile and so this is a shorter revamped version. Okay. So I'm going to show you the first photo. Right. And then.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Can I say her name?

• 45:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, Jenna.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Great.

• 45:04Sabrina Zohar?

  So Jenna, we have her photo and just so you guys know for your privacy, we're not going to blast you guys out, but I want you to see the first one. Then we have, which do we have in common? One, weightlifting regularly, spending weekends outside and ignoring our phones, enjoying cooking and dancing around the kitchen.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Then we're, we're the same type of weird if you will go skydiving in the morning and the opera in the evening. Okay. Then we have photo.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 45:24Sabrina Zohar?

  Man photo. And then the one thing I'd like to know about you is what's a book, movie, podcast that forever changed how you view the world? Okay. Then we go photo.

• 45:33Sabrina Zohar?

  And then the way to win me over is go salsa, um, baccata, can I, baccata? Am I an idiot? Salsa dancing with me on Saturday and church with me on Sundays. Seriously. And then it's project manager, University of Dallas, Christian life partner, monogamy. And then we've got another photo. We've got a dancing photo. Okay.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Can I see the first photo again?

• 45:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Yes.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  That's the most important one.

• 45:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Yes. Before I do that, actually. Name three things you remember about her profile or her.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  I remember her smile. She had a very big, real, authentic smile. Uh, the skydiving specific jumped out to me. I liked how specific that was. And I saw a glimpse of what I think was a video of her dancing. Those are the three, three, three, three, three things that jumped out to me.

• 46:12Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. Now I'm curious, totally unbiased as a dude, are those three things that are strong enough to where you'd be like, yep? Or, because remember 60, you know, 60% of people make a choice within two seconds. That's the main photo again.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:24Sabrina Zohar?

  What are your thoughts? There's a lot of areas of improvement.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Not that it's bad, but we can improve.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Right. I would say, so here, I'm thinking of this through the lens of, okay, what, what are men looking for? Online dating is just marketing. You're not really dating until you've met the person. So as a piece of marketing, I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, what is her market going to respond to? And I like the fact that she's got a nice smile. She's leaning forward. She's, she's, she's giving some rapport. She's saying, hey, let's have some rapport. I would like to see a little bit more adventure, a sense of rugged adventure. I'd like to see a, a one photo that has some femininity because hey, the masculine likes the feminine. The masculine likes to see the feminine out engaged in the world. Get rid of the photo of her in the bookstore.

• 47:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  Or the library. Guys don't care about that.

• 47:14Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm with you. And the same with the friend. It's like, again, I don't want multiple photos with sunglasses and a hat. I can't see you. What I would say too is like, I think a lot of people, and this is just totally normal, right? This is very human nature, but I think a lot of people under misunderstand perhaps the reason of a prompt, right? The prompt is to prompt a conversation. And right now it's like, okay, so which do we have in common? Okay. What if I chose weightlifting regularly? Okay. Then what happens is I'm still putting the onus on you, right? So if I was a dude, if I'm lazy and I just press that and then it just sends you the match. So now I have to go, okay, what do you do to weightlift, right? Then the next thing, like, we're the same type of weird if you'll go skydiving in the morning and opera in the evening. It's a very small pool of people that are probably going to do that stuff with you.

• 47:53Sabrina Zohar?

  And yeah, sure, we're the same type of weird if we do that. I really don't know anything about you besides, okay, so you're, you like to do like a lot in a day? And then same, okay, I like that. What's a book, movie that changed your view? Okay, cool. Like asking a question. And then the way to mend me over again is like, go salsa dancing and then church with me on Sundays. It's the first time that faith is even brought in.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:12Sabrina Zohar?

  And that's really huge for you. I need that highlighted.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:15Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? Cause I didn't know.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  That's your market.

• 48:17Sabrina Zohar?

  That's your market. Exactly.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Talk to your audience.

• 48:19Sabrina Zohar?

  A hundred percent because I think. I I agree like I think I we don't need like a dissertation, right? Like we don't need a whole fucking like, oh, wow, that's fifteen paragraphs. But I do think as far as photos, yeah, I think the first photo is cute. I think we could do better. I do. Not to mention, I also just realized um in the photo here, she has a ring on her on her finger. But if you don't realize that that's flipped, you'd look and go, is that an engagement ring? Because it's on your that finger.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:46Sabrina Zohar?

  I just noticed that really quickly. I was like.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  I didn't catch that until just now.

• 48:48Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, but it just interesting that I'm like, huh.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? And it's like you said, it's a very sweet photo. It's engaging, but I think your first one, like you said, it's marketing. So if we're going quick and I'm just right, I'm swiping all day.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  First two photos is what guys are gonna see.

• 49:01Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  And the second photo, is that our second photo with glasses? Yeah, we can't have that in the second spot.

• 49:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  I think the first two photos, like the one-two punch.

• 49:08Sabrina Zohar?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  We need to hit him with a couple of shots, so to speak, that get them going, whoa, this is definitely my type. You're about, go ahead.

• 49:16Sabrina Zohar?

  This is the same photo or same photo shoot. So that is the same one as that.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:21Sabrina Zohar?

  I looked and I was like, oh, you're saying ring, the same necklace, same earrings, same shirt. So it's just, we need a little bit, like you said, and then this, yeah, the library doesn't do anything like.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Right. So what Jenna or anybody can do is you can take these photos and put them on photofeeler.com.

• 49:33Sabrina Zohar?

  What's up?

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Photofeeler.com. You get, it's a real website where you get, it's an instant focus group for your photos where they're judged on attractiveness, on intelligence and on uh what's the oh, uh, trustworthiness.

• 49:46Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh shit.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have all my clients do it. It's so hard to know what photo is gonna work. And you're never really gonna know until you launch it on that given app. But what I love about Photofeeler is you can get some solid real and real evidence, and these are real people that are judging them. And so what I would suggest Jenna do is take these photos and Photofeeler is about testing portraits. Because the first two photos of your profile should be portraits and they should be fan fucking tastic, attractive, swipeable. And chances are, she just took some photos and threw them on there and, you know, swipe and hope, right? Nothing wrong with that. I used to do it too. But Photofeeler can give you some nice data and say, oh, hey, this this one gives me a uh eight out of ten for attractive and seven out of ten for fun, and that will help give us a leading indicator.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Typically, what works best on Photofeeler is gonna work best on a profile.

• 50:36Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, I love that. Okay, that is fucking insider tip. All right, you want to do one last question?

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Please, please. Oh, last thing about Jenna.

• 50:43Sabrina Zohar?

  Please.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  You can have fun with the poll question.

• 50:45Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  This is my favorite way to do the poll question on Hinge. Choose any poll question. What does she have?

• 50:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Uh, which do we have in common?

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Weightlifting regularly, A, spending weekends outside and ignoring our phones, B, C, enjoying cooking and dancing around the kitchen. So what we want to do is use the, the comedic device of the third unusual thing as the funny thing.

• 51:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  And come up with a third thing that is a complete, total,

• 51:11Speaker 01

  curveball to make people smile and laugh. One that's worked well for me and my clients was, well, this is back when, when Taylor and Travis were in the news a lot, but it was like, on our first date, we could A, go to a comedy show, B, get coffee, C, double date with Travis and Taylor, or C, get matching tramp stamps.

• 51:31Sabrina Zohar?

  Right.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Or, or I had good success with Taser Kanye, when Kanye was going fucking crazy.

• 51:37Sabrina Zohar?

  Isn't he still?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  When is he not?

• 51:38Sabrina Zohar?

  Isn't he still?

• 51:39Speaker 01

  But when he was trending. So anyway, I love the poll prompt. Basically you select, together we could choose two specific good first dates, ice cream, coffee, eight weeks together in Paris.

• 51:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Right, yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  What, too soon? Or meet, meet my parents is a good one. And then you're making that person laugh and they think, all right, they may or may not be the one, but I'm gonna have fun with them. Swipe right.

• 52:01Sabrina Zohar?

  I remember I did one, I did a show called This Is The Worst, and the girls were so sweet. And she was like, could you audit my profile? And I was like, okay. And she's like, I'm just not seeing the matches. I was, this girl's beautiful, comedian, funny. And I got her provo. And I just looked and I was reading it and like, it was hard. I was like, you wonder why you're disconnected?

• 52:16Speaker 01

  She wasn't being funny?

• 52:17Sabrina Zohar?

  She thought she was. No, she thought she was. And it was like, first of all, the photos were very like, you know, sexualized. And I was like, okay, first off the bat. But then it was like, dating me is like, rubbing a cheese grater on your ass. Or like wiping your ass with a cheese grater. And I was like, okay.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 52:32Sabrina Zohar?

  And then it's, yeah, so I was like, are you trying to say you're difficult? Like, that, I don't know what anyone's gonna want. And then it was, um, one thing, what I'm looking for now is someone to ruin my life for six to eight weeks. And I was like, again. And she was like, I'm being funny. I'm self deprecating. And I was like, but it's not landing.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Because then she went on this date and the guy was like blown away by how awesome she was, but then was like, I don't want anything. And it's like, but that's the problem.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:53Sabrina Zohar?

  You're getting these dudes that are like, she's hot. I'll fuck her. But they're, and then they'll look, she has no depth, right? Look at her. She's saying she's like a cheese grater and she wants someone to ruin her life for six to eight weeks. Great. She's looking for casual.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  So again, online dating, it's not really dating until you meet them. It's just marketing. And if your message is not clear, those jokes were not landing in a clear way. What was she going for? And maybe she's hot enough to get dates. If she's attractive, plenty of men will meet up with her. But you want every single prompt to have a purpose and a crystal clarity that makes you datable and swappable.

• 53:23Sabrina Zohar?

  A hundred percent. Okay. Last one.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Go.

• 53:25Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. First off, I love you. So grateful to have you in the world. We'll make this short and sweet. And then she writes at the end, this was not short and not sweet, but it is. Basically, I was in a six year relationship that ended in 2018 and I've been single up until last year, November. Now, I'm dating the most amazing guy. He's affectionate, romantic, gentle, gentle, kind, et cetera. But I'm overthinking like crazy and having trust issues. I protected my ex so much these past years that I didn't realize how much trauma I had because of him. He cheated and compared me to women, hit his phone. My current boyfriend is not like this. He's the complete opposite of any guy I've dated, which were versions of my dipshit dad who was verbally and physically abusive to me. I get you, baby. I got one too. I'm in therapy and have listened to multiple podcasts, including yours, of course, but still having trouble trusting him. We've been in a relationship for three months now, but dated five before becoming official. Okay, so I've been together for

• 54:07Sabrina Zohar?

  a minute. He does have issues communicating with me about his friends, which is why I'm triggered. He has a few female friends whom I have not been able to meet in person since they live in other states and only know of them because I see their name pop up on his phone. He tells me I'm free to ask him questions, but I would love to, I would love it if he would just voluntarily tell me so I don't feel like I'm interrogating him. Once I reach a certain point of comfortability, I don't overthink it. Is it appropriate to ask to see these messages they've shared? Do I ask him to let me know when they reach out? Please tell me if it gets better. I don't want to lose this relationship because of my issues. He has done nothing at all to prove he's cheating. This was not short and sweet. Sorry.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  So she's worried about her boyfriend's female friends?

• 54:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Yes, I hear this all the time.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Okay, she's asking, can I, asking, is it okay for me to ask to see those messages?

• 54:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:48Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:49Sabrina Zohar?

  Like, no, it's not.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  You could talk about the topic and bring it up in a way that's a little bit cagey-er. And ask in a genuine sincere way, tell me more about you and Beth and how you know each other and some fun stories. She might be able to get some real insight from him if she'll just, well, I don't think it's interrogation. With all due respect to her, I want, I want her to feel like she has permission to ask sincere, well-intentioned questions about her man and the people in his life. And she can take his answer and understand the context and what he says and sort of gauge how, what the situation is. But bottom line is, plenty of men, probably most men, have female friends.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  I have many female friends, some of whom are exes, some are just friends. And I'm lucky, my amazing girlfriend Jess is, not only is she cool with them, she's met some of them and thinks it's great. And I know a little bit about her exes. So no, don't ask to see his phone, don't look at his messages. See if you can get him to offer something in a way that, by asking in a curious way about his friendships with them.

• 55:57Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, Ryan, to this day, he'll tell, like, I see him texting, I'm like, who is that? And he's like, oh, it's like somebody from college, I don't know who this fucking person is. But it's also like, well, I have a lot of people from my past, I have guys that I dated that reach out, doesn't mean I'm doing anything with them. It's like, I respect my partner, my partner, I'll tell him, or like, especially, especially if an ex reaches out or somebody from the past. They love to reach out now and be like, wow, congrats on everything you're going through. And I'll tell him, the first thing I'll be like, guess who reached out? And he'll just look at me and be like, oh, okay, thanks for letting me know. He doesn't give a shit, because he knows that, like, he trusts me as his partner. And what I would say for her, trust is huge. What I would say here is, a couple of things that I'd be curious for her just to get curious about. And it's one, when you're, when, when we get that trigger, what's causing that, right? Is there, like, what ones, okay, can I talk?

• 56:41Sabrina Zohar?

  One, what is the narrative, right? So if he gets a text and you see his phone light up, is it instantly like, oh, I knew he found someone else, right? Or he's probably talking To her or right, what narrative are we conflating about a text that comes up on his phone? Because if we have zero facts to back this up, I'll never gaslight anyone and be like, hey, you're making this up. It's like, no, if you were coming to me saying, he's being dicey, he's not willing to talk to me. It's like, these people don't live in the state. What do you, he's not, what are you going to want him to FaceTime? So he could be like, look, okay, here's my girlfriend. It's like, you might meet these people over time. Ryan and I are going to a wedding of one of my closest friends from Venice. He has never met either one of them and we're going to their wedding. I have never met her partner, but she and I have always had a strong bond. She lives in London. We're not next to each other. I'm not going to sit here and be like, let me show you all about my friend.

• 57:24Sabrina Zohar?

  I just don't, right? Like until it comes up where I'm like, hey, we got invited. Okay, let me show you about my friend. And so I think a couple of things, I'd be curious about the insecurity, right? Of just it being very human, but I'd be curious to see what narrative are we creating? Is there a body sensation? Cause I don't want her to project and project her insecurities of her past onto this guy who really may have done absolutely nothing. And he seems like he's at least willing to have conversations.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. If she was proposing this case to a jury in a court of law, would the jury say instantly, or the judge would say, throw the case out of some hijinks going on? Based on what you read, there's nothing there. There's no evidence. These are understandable stories relating to her understandable insecurity, it sounds like. But I'd just say, treat it like you're in the courtroom. Is there anything I know that I should be worried about? Barring that, barring text messages popping up on his phone. Oh my God, that was so hot last night, what you texted. Unless you see something like that, let it go.

• 58:19Sabrina Zohar?

  A hundred percent. I love the what, what evidence do I have to back this up? If I'm a judge, I'm going to give you a million dollars, but you gotta prove it to me. Well, feelings, that's not a fact, right? It's, it's a, it's valid. But me saying, well, I feel like they don't care about me. It's like, but what proof do I have to show that?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Feeling it real. Feel is not real.

• 58:35Sabrina Zohar?

  I love that.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I do this with my guys all the time. Biggest limiting belief, ah, women just all want millionaires or six foot five finance guys. Okay, what's your evidence of that? And he's like, other than social media, no woman's ever said that to him. He's dated three stunning, amazing women, even though he's a five foot nine inch engineer. He's like, wow, the jury would totally throw this shit out. And I'm like, yeah, let's do the courtroom analogy. That helps a lot.

• 58:59Sabrina Zohar?

  What facts do I have to back this up? It's like my favorite DBT practice. Connell, this was so much fun.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  This was so awesome. I had a blast.

• 59:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Thanks for coming in, sharing your wisdom. Could you plug? I know you have one, your book, and then you've got a free guide or download.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  I want to plug something that I created for, for your audience. So I, one of the things we talked about, talking about was how to connect, just how to connect with people. So I created a little five, five step tip guide called, uh, the five psychological triggers to connect with anybody. And this isn't just romantic. This is about how to connect with somebody you meet at a party. You might want to be their friend or how to better connect with a coworker. There are these triggers, I'm using the word trigger in a virtuous way, not internal triggers being upset. I mean, little triggers you can pull to learn how to truly authentically connect with somebody who you just met. And, uh, it's, uh, waiting for you at datingtransformation.com forward slash Sabrina. And I feel like it's, uh, the kind of thing that your audience will enjoy.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  So please check that out if you want to learn how to be a better at emotionally connecting with people. And otherwise, uh, anybody who just wants to know more about me can go to datingtransformation.com. My podcast is how to get a girlfriend where I have amazing guests like Sabrina Zohar.

• 1:00:07Sabrina Zohar?

  And all of this will be linked to you guys can go, follow, share. And just thank you so much for bestowing your wisdom on the community and being part of it. Cause it's fucking awesome.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  No, thank you for being a no bullshit shining light in this world. I love it.

• 1:00:19Sabrina Zohar?

  Back at you.