Cyndi Lauper

We get to see a legend’s True Colours on the podcast this week! We joined the powerhouse hitmaker Cyndi Lauper for lunch in central London and mum cooked up some borscht especially for the occasion. It was a total honour to hear Cyndi’s stories; we learnt how she grew up in the same house as her whole extended family, how she would play tricks on her priest, her tips on cooking the perfect Italian pasta sauce, how she got kidney stones from spinach, the incredible LGBTQIA+ advocacy work she does, and she confesses that her upcoming tour really will be her last. We sent Cyndi home with some boxes of mum’s borscht - us girls really did have fun with Cyndi, you really don’t want to miss her upcoming UK tour it sounds incredible! Tickets for the ‘Girls Just Want To Have Fun, Farewell Tour’ are available through Cyndi’s website now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:35Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Lenny and we've accidentally kind of coordinated again.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Darling, do you think you're sending me messages?

• 0:46Jessie Ware?

  Maybe, Mum. So we are actually not in either of our abodes today. We are in our friends' flat in central London.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Lovely Andy Barker.

• 0:55Jessie Ware?

  Thank you, Andy Barker. Because we have a very special guest today.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  And we didn't want to travel south.

• 1:01Jessie Ware?

  And we are very excited. We have Cindy Lauper on the podcast today. I watched her documentary that came out last year called Let the Canary Sing and she's trailblazer, icon, firestarter, a civil rights campaigner. She looks fantastic. I'm interested to see what colour hair she comes in today. She was kind of the birth of MTV as well, the music videos. And her and Madonna came out at the same time. And famously, they were kind of pitted against each other.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  True colours were sung at your daughter's car service.

• 1:32Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34Jessie Ware?

  Big queer anthem about her really good friend Gregory, who she lived with, that I found out in the Let the Canary Sing documentary that you should all go and watch, it's absolutely brilliant. And we've got her on and we're going to talk about life in New York.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  And still touring.

• 1:49Jessie Ware?

  Still touring, yeah. That's why, I mean, she's coming on to talk about it's the farewell tour, which I don't feel like feels very fair. Why is it a farewell when I feel like she'll never stop working, Cindy Lauper?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Of course she won't.

• 2:01Jessie Ware?

  She's done kind of every different genre of music. She goes from blues, she'll, she'll invent a type of pop sound. I mean, girls just want to have fun and that like little hiccup that she does there. Um, that's, I don't know, she's just, she's amazing.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  She's playing at the O2 next week.

• 2:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  And you won't be able to go because you'll be gone.

• 2:20Jessie Ware?

  I know, I'll be in Los Angeles, so annoying.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Darling, shall we talk about this week?

• 2:24Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  A little bit.

• 2:25Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  It's been a momentous week.

• 2:27Jessie Ware?

  Why, what happened?

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Well, we went to see Bridget Jones.

• 2:30Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  The premiere, and your song's in it.

• 2:32Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  And I was so proud.

• 2:35Jessie Ware?

  Thanks, Mum. You whooped in the premiere. It was really embarrassing.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Well, it was at the best moment of the whole film.

• 2:43Jessie Ware?

  We were all thrilled for Bridget. It was after she shagged Leo Woodall, so.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Jessie, you can't say that.

• 2:47Jessie Ware?

  I think everyone knows that, that he's on the front of the poster.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Can you not say shagged?

• 2:51Jessie Ware?

  Okay, it was after she.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  She's spent the night.

• 2:53Jessie Ware?

  Okay, yeah, sure.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55Jessie Ware?

  And Pearls comes in and it was really fun. And it was just really exciting to be there.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:01Jessie Ware?

  So what have you made, Mum?

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Well, it's been Meals on Wheels today, so I've brought the food from home and I made it last night after my new fridge has been installed.

• 3:11Jessie Ware?

  That is for another podcast, Mum.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Well, it will be for another podcast because my refrigeration problems have been very trying. Um, I have made something that Cindy apparently loves, borscht.

• 3:24Jessie Ware?

  Fingers crossed.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Now, I'm not an expert borscht maker, but it tastes quite nice. I did a combination of a Ukrainian recipe and the hairy bikers, so I amalgamated them.

• 3:34Jessie Ware?

  Nice.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  To my taste, really. I don't know if she eats dessert, but I've made a fig and almond tart, which looks gorgeous. It's kind of Frangipani, but can I just tell you, the scent of the figs when they were cooking was great.

• 3:49Jessie Ware?

  Yum.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  And it looks lovely. It looks pro to me.

• 3:52Jessie Ware?

  I've done absolutely nothing and I'm sorry.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  That's fine.

• 3:55Jessie Ware?

  Thank you, I appreciate it.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  That's fine.

• 3:56Jessie Ware?

  Cindy Lauper coming up on Table Mum.

• 4:07Jessie Ware?

  Cindy Lauper, you have just walked in. You are a vision. Mum wants to steal the clothes off your back.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Everything, from the coat to the blouse.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  But you know Nikki.

• 4:18Jessie Ware?

  I know Nikki. Let's talk about Nikki. Nikki helped me in the summer.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Fontanella, a nice Italian girl.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Nice Italian.

• 4:24Jessie Ware?

  You love working with nice Italian girls.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  I'm Italian.

• 4:27Jessie Ware?

  I know.

• 4:30Jessie Ware?

  And New York Italians. I mean, that's how I, I, I, I, we share a, a makeup artist sometimes called Jen Lombardo. Who is friends with Nikki and they're all this wonderful New Yorker Italian connection. Let's talk about that at the dinner.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  But I do have a wonderful Colombian girl.

• 4:47Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah. What does your Colombian girl do?

• 4:49Speaker 03

  She's American, but her descent is, uh, Nafra. She's.

• 4:53Jessie Ware?

  Oh, Nafritia, isn't she? Yeah.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a beautiful woman. Of course, she wouldn't, she'd be embarrassed at I say.

• 5:01Jessie Ware?

  Well, you look, you look gorgeous.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  She can paint. That one can paint. She's a great and steady and calm like Buddha. You know, always like, I call her my Buddha girl, cause no matter what, she's always calm.

• 5:16Jessie Ware?

  I love that. Are you always calm, Cindy?

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Oh, hell no.

• 5:20Jessie Ware?

  Can we go back to the beginning, Cindy? So this podcast, we talk a lot about like food and family and food memories. So I wanna, I want Cindy Lauper to paint a picture of who was around your dinner table. Um, when you were a child and what you were eating. What was a very common Lauper dinner?

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Well.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  My parents split up when I was young and my mother. Uh, we were raised by a Sicilian family that came over from Palermo and, um. My grandparents lived upstairs and my aunt lived next door. Which is perfect for them because that's how my grandfather kind of wanted everybody together, which it's nice. Unless they got other dreams and they're not allowed to have them, you know. So I learned that quick. My mother, though, she was fantastic and I was the sous chef, cause if you were a girl, you know, what did they tell us? They said. Well, you gotta learn how to cook and clean, cause you're gonna do it for the rest of your life. And I thought to myself.

• 6:22Jessie Ware?

  Hell no.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  For you, maybe, you know, but, um, no, but you know, my mom. She knew about the practicality of it. You could take care of yourself and that's all I wanted. I wanted to learn how to take care of myself and I learned all the sous chef stuff.

• 6:38Jessie Ware?

  Did you enjoy cooking?

• 6:41Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I I enjoyed doing anything they were gonna teach me. I was very curious. It was tough for my mom. She was like a saint. I had this one thing. That I think I liked to fly. So. You liked to fly? Yeah, she was telling me that when I was an infant, I was rocking so hard in the carriage, I. Flung myself through the window, the little French door window, so she had a heart attack. I was okay. Oh, my god. Like you catapulted out of your prom? Yeah. Wow.

• 7:13Jessie Ware?

  Of course you did. She's Cindy.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  So I wanted a. She had this, um, cause you know, the kitchen, you wind up in the kitchen. Yeah. So there was a little metal cabinet and in there was all the spices and the hair, the. The food coloring. And I say hair because once I saw the food coloring. You know, especially cause Saint Patty's Day and you know, everybody used to dress up for Saint Patty's Day. You wear green. And you know.

• 7:40Jessie Ware?

  Even the Italian, the Italians dressed up for Saint Patty's?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  My cousin Vinnie.

• 7:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  They Irish and Italian, so they were Irish. So I just figured, you know, they were like my brother and sister.

• 7:51Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  So. You know, I had a green dress. It was the time, remember in the sixties when purple and green matched really well, like. Gorgeous, yeah. Gray, purple and olive. All the Bieber, Bieber colors. Do you remember Bieber? Yeah, what are you kidding? Yeah, aubergine, purple, dark.

• 8:11Jessie Ware?

  Did Wimbledon.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  See how fancy that is aubergine. Plus it was. Aubergine.

• 8:16Jessie Ware?

  Purple.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, aubergine it was.

• 8:18Jessie Ware?

  So you were wearing a lot of purple and green?

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Well, you know, green.

• 8:21Jessie Ware?

  Where that food coloring went, Cindy?

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Well, you see, first I was just on the cabinet, cause it had. This, these metal doors with little things on the bottom. You could put your feet on.

• 8:33Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  And if you hold the handles and I got into this thing where you could flap. And it felt like you were flying, but you had to get off in time before the thing fell. And couple of times, you know, she was always digging me out, but I always thought I could jump off in time. You know, she was so good. She was so patient. God bless her. Yeah, and then I saw the food color.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  And then I, you know, it was Saint Patty's Day and I was wearing green.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  But I didn't put the lemon in my hair, cause you're supposed to put lemon in your hair.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Are you bl- are you blonde?

• 9:08Speaker 03

  I was a little blonde, but not, you know, you gotta like kinda put the lemon in your hair.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  So that when you put the green in, it stays. Well, it's just like it shined a little green.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  How old were you?

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Nine. So she was, but you know, God bless her. She was so patient. But you know, she would cook on Sundays, you know, you start the sauce, you know, they have their rules, you know, with meat, it's garlic. And onion and bay leaf and basil, but you have to be careful with the spices, but. Only if you're using meat, but if you're not having meat, it's just um either onion or garlic, but not together.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:56Speaker 03

  And I don't know, it's like you never put cheese on fish, which as I grew older, I realized, why would you put cheese on fish? That should be a ticket. Don't do it.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Except I like cheese on uh linguine al mare, you know, uh seafood pasta. I do like cheese.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  No, I wouldn't, no. You know, I used to make a really good one. And you know, you learn from different people, what you know, their family thing, like when I was by Lenny Pizzi. They used to make a sauce where it was seafood, but then they'd put a little tuna fish to fill it. Like from and and it did, it was really interesting and tasty. But you know, you always wanna make your marinara, you don't put the gar- you don't put onions in if you're using the seafood. And then. I would have all the, you know, like you have to have snails, the periwinkles, the. But I started to see like.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  The little periwinkles trying to get out of the shell and then I felt like, okay . They're alive then. Yeah, you have to have them alive, otherwise, you know, but if you put them in the refrigerator, they fall asleep.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Oh my god .

• 11:13Speaker 03

  And and die like that, which is a better . Better for them than. But you know , but honestly, after I saw all that, I felt really bad, so I. Do not eat seafood. Of course I do, but I try and keep it down to a bare minimum, the animal thing. I tried to be vegan, but you know . You know. It's hard . One thing where they were um just delivering food. And then every day spinach, every meal spinach, and wound up having kidney stones and it killed me. Oh, do you get kidney stones from spinach? Yes, it has a chemical in it. If you eat too much of this kind of thing and you're prone to that.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  It can, you can develop kidney stones. You know, everything in moderation is good. And apparently not with that food company. So I stopped that, but like I tried to eat on the road like that. But they would put these herbs and vegetables, like, you know, just flat out, what's wrong with you? Got cauliflower, what you gotta ruin it for? Just freaking wash it, cut it, put a little olive oil on it, some salt, put it in the broiler, don't burn it . You have a chef when you're on tour? No, how am I gonna do that? It's bad enough I got all this, I got sixty people. Now I'm gonna carry a chef too. And and I'm already taking . Important thing for me, I think. Well. Having a chef .

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Deserve a chef.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  I'm I'm also like taking like leadership courses so that I could be a good leader . To manage all the people . What am I gonna do? You know, you you can't have the manager going saying, she said what to who, what? You know.

• 12:51Jessie Ware?

  I I think you're doing pretty well. I mean, what, how mu- how many?

• 12:54Speaker 03

  You learn a lot.

• 12:55Jessie Ware?

  You are. I watched the documentary and I loved it, by the way.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  Oh, it's Allison. That was Allison. Allison.

• 13:02Jessie Ware?

  It was beautiful, but you, I mean, it's your story, Cindy.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Well, who else is it gonna be? The documentary was on me, so.

• 13:09Jessie Ware?

  I loved.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  Was it called The Canary?

• 13:11Jessie Ware?

  Let the Canary Sing.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  The Canary Sing. That was in the documentary. I didn't see, I haven't seen it yet. I'm so sorry, darling. It was a lawsuit. I was in a lawsuit. The last, the manager I had, we were in Blue Angel. I noticed he didn't know what the hell he was doing. And we weren't going anywhere.

• 13:30Jessie Ware?

  He made you bankrupt.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  So I decided to have, like, I went to him and I said, listen, we're not going anywhere. How about you let go, we buy you out, we get a deal, you get a, you get a piece of it. And we can continue and be successful. But no. So we had to go and do a lawsuit. So we went to court. And then finally, at the end of the whole thing, I mean, it was just a stupid thing. I don't know why he, he didn't wanna just make some money because you don't make money or for nothing. He was just determined that I was never gonna sing again.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  That was unfortunate for him to think about. It's unfortunate for anyone to think about. They're gonna be the gatekeeper for me. Because any gatekeeper. I'm sorry, it ain't gonna work. I'm gonna look behind your shoulder and I'm gonna go, for you maybe, but not for me. And that's what I learned my whole life, cause you know, I went to Catholic school. I was here at the convent of the Sisters of No Mercy at All.

• 14:42Jessie Ware?

  Sisters of No Mercy at All. I wanted to talk about that because that was quite a, a, a difficult time in your life. I mean, you talk so fondly about your mum. And you know, she's featured in your music videos and, and you know, um, you and your sister, I don't think your little brother was there.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was.

• 14:59Jessie Ware?

  What, he went to?

• 15:00Speaker 03

  No, he didn't go to the Catholic schools.

• 15:02Jessie Ware?

  So you and your sister went to the, the, the school?

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:06Jessie Ware?

  And what age were you when you went there?

• 15:09Speaker 03

  The, the convent, well, you see, it was all my fault that we got thrown out of the gates of hell. It was really gates of heaven, but it kinda felt like the gates of hell, like, door. Because um, you know.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Look, I always loved fashion and I know I was a weird kid anyway. And there was this priest walking back and forth and you know how in in third grade, sometimes it's under the church. So the rectory was right there and he kept walking back and forth. The thing is, it was a fashion thing. He had black pants, but he also had a pleated skirt over the pants. And big beads right up swinging. This is the priest. Oh, yeah, the priest. Listen, remember the high masses? The guy would come in with a pointy hat and a purse so fierce, it was on fire. Right? It was like, how could you not like that?

• 16:05Speaker 03

  So, except for the fact when I wanted to be called Stefan, he smacked me in the face and said Stephanie and I said. It says Stefan, he said, move along, you know. Why did you wanna be called Stefan? For Saint Stefan. Oh, sorry, I'm a Jew, I don't know.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  What's he doing, what's he saint of? I don't know, I liked the name. Yeah, the name's great. Yeah, right. Why can't you have a unisex name? But you know how it was in the sixties, it was seventies, it was hard for them. Plus, they hated the folk mass and of course, I was there playing guitar in the folk mass and they hated us. Did you sing at church? Were you in the choir? Yeah, I was in the choir. Yeah, well, at eight, I was too young to be in the choir. But I talked to my girlfriend Rosemary, who lived around the corner, Rosemary LaCanti, good Italian girl. And I talked her into sitting in the church with me. Cause I knew God was there, except I couldn't understand why God was living behind this gold door.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Like a small gold door and I'm thinking. You know, he can afford something bigger than that, even if the door is nice, come on. So, but I figured, oh, he's omnipresent, whatever the hell that means. Cause every time he asked a question, they said, oh, it's a mystery. I said, what does that mean? They just be quiet, don't ask questions, you know. Do you still, do you believe in God?

• 17:34Speaker 03

  I don't believe half the crap that people tell you. I don't believe in gatekeepers. I think it's amazing that they have these organizations where they stand between you

• 17:49Speaker 03

  and your maker, if that's what it is. And at a very young age, I was very, very fortunate to see firsthand what people said and their behavior and how different it was. Cause I took everything very seriously. When I was getting married to Jesus, I was really excited. That's confirmation, is that? No, that's first holy communion. And you know, you get the little... How old were you? Seven. And you know, you get the little... Oh, do you wear like a bridal? Yeah, I had a little dress with white. And so it's a big thing for your family, yeah? Yeah, yeah. And a big party? Well, I was gonna get married to Jesus.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  It was big, I was getting married. But then when I was a flower girl for some, for my godmother, I thought I was getting married then too. And I thought the, the pillow boy was such a drag. He didn't even wanna dance. And I thought, oh my god, I'm getting married to him? Well, oh well, the dress is nice, you know? I didn't know. So, I took everything serious. So, when I was doing all that, I just, you know, you buy into all that. You have a guardian angel. I used to talk to him all the time. I used to wait, you know, I was waiting for the Holy Spirit to come. So I'd squint my eyes and see if the, the statues were gonna move or the candle was gonna turn into something ominous, you know?

• 19:19Speaker 03

  Never did, you know? That's why when I saw Like a Prayer, the Madonna video, I was like, yes, I loved her. After that, I just loved her. She insulted everyone. All together, it was awesome. But, the reason I say this is, remember I told you about the priest? Yeah. Well, I used to go running after him to walk with him back and forth and back and forth. And he always called me Sylvia. No matter how many times I said my name was Cynthia, he called me Sylvia. So I figured, okay, Sylvia. So... You know, I kinda became friends with him.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  And then at confession, you have to go to confession and I saw his name and I said, wow, I'll go to him and it'll go quick. Right? Cause they figure, eh, they give you the act of contrition, a couple of Hail Marys, the All Father, you're out, right? So I go in, I didn't go to mass. And he starts telling me, I'm gonna go to hell like my mother. So I said, I'm eight, mind you. I didn't tell him he was going to hell for saying that to an eight year old.

• 20:27Jessie Ware?

  What's your mom go to?

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Because she was divorced. She divorced when we were five. He says that to me and I said to him. You don't know my mother, she's not going to hell. She's a good woman. She works really hard and she loves her kids. My mother is not going to hell. And all of a sudden, I think that asshole remembered my name because the Monsignor called my mother. At home. And told her that he thinks that we gotta leave the school. Because the way she lives and what they preach are two different things.

• 21:04Jessie Ware?

  I'm so sorry.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  And that's the kindness. See, once you see through the veil. It's bullshit. Right?

• 21:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  And then when you go to the convent school. And you think. Well, first you think, cause they gotta get you up at five thirty to do all this shit and get to mass and get to school and then you're thinking, wow, God's in early rise. You know. Cause you gotta. Get it all done.

• 21:30Jessie Ware?

  It is, is food associated with Catholicism, so lots of religions, food plays a big part in it.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Well, Fridays is always fish.

• 21:39Jessie Ware?

  Fish, yeah.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  And then Christmas Eve, you don't eat meat. You eat, you eat, it's the seven fishes.

• 21:46Jessie Ware?

  The seven fishes, which, did you watch The Bear?

• 21:48Speaker 03

  No.

• 21:49Jessie Ware?

  Okay, well, they did a hot, Jamie Lee Curtis plays a, an Italian mother and there's this whole incredible episode called the seven dish, fish.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Fishes.

• 21:57Jessie Ware?

  Yes, and it's, it, that's how I learned about it through The Bear. I wanted to, I wanted to ask you, um.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  They didn't do seven fishes though.

• 22:05Jessie Ware?

  Who didn't?

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Not my family. My mother would make frittatas.

• 22:09Jessie Ware?

  Your mom?

• 22:09Speaker 03

  She always did a great. And she, she taught us, well, fried potatoes and you put that in, it's kinda Spanish.

• 22:17Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  It's a funny thing how Sicilian and Spanish food, I don't know, kinda like similar.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  Because we were in Mallorca and we stopped in a cafe. And it was like the frittata my mother used to make us on Christmas Eve.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Frittata, I love frittata.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  You can't eat meat. Sometimes she'd put string beans in there. She was big on the health thing. Sometimes she would say, she'd make liver like it was veal cutlets and say. Veal cutlets, I was like, ma, that ain't veal. She like, it's good for you. So, you know, it was like, and poor Ellen. It was hard for her to get through. Sometimes we had to sit and eat the whole thing. So she was like. Ellen would be making string beans and potatoes in the sandwich. It was like hard to look at. I was like, ew.

• 23:12Jessie Ware?

  Can we talk about Ellen? Because Ellen features, well, your brother and your sister feature in the documentary and. Your sister's gay and I wonder whether that was difficult. Also, you felt quite protective. You have such a strong bond. I mean, she kind of. She took you in, I think, when you were expelled from school when you were seventeen. Didn't you go, you went and go and stayed with her and Carl and Gregory and like she.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  No, no, that was later.

• 23:35Jessie Ware?

  Was that later?

• 23:36Speaker 03

  But, but when I first left. Yeah, she called me and I told her what was happening. She said, son. Just, you know, stuff a few things in a bag and get your ass here. It's not safe.

• 23:49Jessie Ware?

  Was that to do with your stepfather?

• 23:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:51Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. But Ellen, you sound like you had loads of fun together.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  Well, my mother, you know, I was an intense kid. My mother told me I was born to be her friend. So as we were growing up, if Ellen had friends, I always had a fit if she didn't play with me because that's why I was born. Okay, I came here to be your friend and now you're playing with her. Okay? So, I know, I know. My poor mother, she was very patient. My sister too, but she tried to ditch me. And then when, when she was coming out or dealing with her own sexuality, which was very hard for her.

• 24:29Jessie Ware?

  And was that quite early on?

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Ellen always wanted to be Peter Pan or, you know, or. Annie Oakley or Ellen wanted cap guns, Ellen wanted to play drums. She was terrific. She used to play the garbage pails and she had such great rhythm. What did she do as a job? Now, well, she tried a lot of things. I always thought she was gonna be a musician, like me and be with me. But um she.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  She did a lot. She worked on the railroad um doing the ties. She worked as a a ship's plumber and she's little. And um then she became carpenter. And then she wanted to be healer. So she became an acupuncturist. And I thought to myself, well, that makes sense. I wanna be a carpenter, that's nails. This is nails, just a whole different kind. But um yeah, so she uh. Where does she live? She lives in uh Los Angeles, well, in Long Beach. Where do you live? New York. New York. Yeah, well, you know, my sister tried to get away.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  You know, cuz she wanted just to have her own life. And it's very hard for people. When they come out because, you know, you're accepted and you you raised in this kinda Catholic thing and. Anything outside the norm is uh is is is you're taught to feel dirty. Perverse and um I just looked at my sister like she was always my sister. And. You know, even if she tried to ditch me, I was always gonna be there.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  And I felt like it doesn't matter how hard you try, Ellen, I'm your sister, I was born to be your friend and I'm here. And even when she was coming out and she had like, she would have. You know, she would bring her friends who were angry and, you know. And I remember.

• 26:41Jessie Ware?

  Was this in the, what time was this, late seventies?

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Seventies, right. And they would be like, you know, I remember one birthday party, I wanted a birthday party and she had her friends and they were just looking at me and I was famous at that time. And everybody, you know, look, everybody judges everybody. So if you are the sister of somebody famous, they just think you're rich and you should live this way or. You know, oh, they're very straight or, you know, whatever they think.

• 27:12Jessie Ware?

  Was this post-girls just wanna have fun then, okay.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Would you like to eat something? I've taken you at your word.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  And I've made borscht.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  Get out, really?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Would you like that?

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Yes. You don't have to.

• 27:26Jessie Ware?

  You can have a little bit, do you want a little?

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, just a little, yeah, yeah. What else did you make? You were cooking?

• 27:31Jessie Ware?

  There's bread with, with borscht with some bread and butter and then I've made a tart, a fig and almond tart for afterwards.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  Wow, come on.

• 27:40Jessie Ware?

  So let me just. Um, whilst my mum goes and gets the borscht, can I ask, uh, some of your favorite spots in New York that you go and eat, when you come back from tour?

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Sure, there is, it depends what you're in the mood for.

• 27:55Jessie Ware?

  Give me a couple, three.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  Okay, there's a, a new place that opened, two nineteen, it's in the fifty sixties. Um, it's a French beef strout.

• 28:06Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  Um, Orson Welles used to go there. David would know the name, not me.

• 28:11Jessie Ware?

  What's your order when you go there?

• 28:13Speaker 03

  Oh, at that place?

• 28:15Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  You know, fish.

• 28:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  They make, well, it's French foods, you know, so they'll have like a trout with.

• 28:24Jessie Ware?

  Thank you, mum.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  Look at that, thank you so much.

• 28:28Jessie Ware?

  So you'll have a bit of trout or will there be a Jove's soul there?

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it depends, you know, if you go hell in a handbasket, you're gonna get the fries and whatever. And, um. Then there's also this Indian place that used to be where Lucky Chance was. On First Avenue, um, near Houston Street. It's right near Lucienne. I love Lucienne. Now, that's a great place. It's right on First Avenue off of Houston. And that's a bistro, but it's really fun. It's really fun place. And, um, Italian food, well, there's Frankie's. Frankie's. In Brooklyn. That's, uh, four fifty seven Court Street. That's pretty good. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's so nice. And that's sour cream. Oh, wow.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  What got you into borscht, Cindy? Well, my friend Yuda, who does my hair, so, you know, with a couple of girls, but Yuda, um, I don't know, she, she likes it. Yeah. And so we'd be on the road and I looked up different recipes. Yeah. And I started to make borscht for her. On the road? Yeah, vegetarian. Yeah, because I had a new, uh, bullet, you know, the, the veggie bullet. And, and, uh, it's not really hard to make. Oh, thank you so much. Um, it's not that hard to make. So you cook for your, you cook for your crew when you're on tour? No, just me and her. We used to do that. I don't do that anymore because I, I'm busy.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Cause the tour is a bigger one. Yeah. And it's demanding. Yeah. And still I didn't get past the PT. I've been doing PT every morning, but I gotta do PT. Personal training. It's physical therapy. Okay. Which means all the little muscles really slow. Yeah, okay. Then after you're done with that, it's supposed to move on to weights. Then after the weights, you wanna do some yoga. Wow. Sure. And, and then you gotta do your voice and incorporate the voice into the, yeah, sure, butter's always good. I'll hold it. What's the, what's the expression, ma'am? It's everything's better with butter.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Especially with your voice.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  So wow, your whole day before a show, you're doing physical therapy, you're doing weights, you're doing yoga, then you do, how long's your vocal um.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Well, for me lately, when I was younger, it was different.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  But, you know, sometimes I take lessons if I can, because I used to, I have lessons in the week. Which is really, honestly, just physical therapy for vocals. Cause they listen to what's happening, here's the exercise to fix that, okay, thank you. You know.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  But it's not just warm up, because as you get older and your voice expands, there's more parts of your voice to warm up. Right, it's not just one part.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I definitely warm up for longer now than I did, and I guess that's just gonna carry on getting longer.

• 31:40Speaker 03

  Well, for me, my voice doesn't really get going till an hour and a half.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Cindy, I'm not a bursed expert.

• 31:47Jessie Ware?

  Really nice, Mum.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Do you like it?

• 31:49Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I like it.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  It smells great.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's healthy.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Oh, this is really great.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Do you like it?

• 31:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. So how'd you do it? Did you put cabbage in it?

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  So cabbage, and did you do onions with the cabbage?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Right, so I combined two recipes, a Ukrainian one and just a British one. But I have made the David Tanis recipe, which is a New York Times one.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  I don't know, but go ahead.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  It's got beetroot, onion, carrot.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Potato, and then I put cabbage in at the end.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Am I doing it right?

• 32:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  It's great, there isn't any right, is there? There's no right and wrong. Oh, I don't do beefy.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Well, that's what I thought.

• 32:37Jessie Ware?

  Yes, so we didn't do the beef shit in there, well, I say we, I did nothing.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  It's really good.

• 32:51Speaker 00

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• 33:26Jessie Ware?

  I want it so, just enjoy your food and eat, but we will be asking you your last supper.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Oh, come on.

• 33:33Jessie Ware?

  No, you're just going to a desert island. You're not dining.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Oh, here with the desert island again.

• 33:37Jessie Ware?

  Oh, fuck, you did desert island this, didn't you?

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Come on, I ain't going to no desert island. First of all, I'm allergic to the sun. I'm allergic to the cold. I'm not gonna sit in the sun. I'm gonna get wrinkles. I ain't gonna do it.

• 33:50Jessie Ware?

  You're taking this far to literally, Cindy.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:53Jessie Ware?

  Be imaginative. All right, you're going to...

• 33:56Speaker 03

  No imagination.

• 33:57Jessie Ware?

  You're going to bloody California, where for a very long time, and you're not gonna be able to eat your, I don't know, you're not gonna have your comforts and you're not gonna have your favorite meal. So your last supper, starter, main, drink of choice and dessert.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Well, at first, if I was in California and it was close to the Mexican border.

• 34:19Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, you go.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  I'd be looking for those Mexican chefs that make the great Baja food, right?

• 34:26Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  And I let them do it. And I'd go, wow, that's really good. The fish taco is probably really great.

• 34:37Jessie Ware?

  What's your favorite pasta?

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Well, on Christmas, I talked David into it. Like, Christmas Eve, we went out to eat. But Christmas Day, we made, I taught him how to make sauce.

• 34:54Jessie Ware?

  Like your mom's?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Well, no, because she made everything with meat. I showed him how to make, like, just a light sauce, kinda sweet. And we went and got Saint Anne's raviolis, which you have to go to Bensonhurst to get. They don't sell them Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. Okay. And it's a weird place, cause sometimes they had very rude and angry. Um, salespeople, so you just gotta keep your head low. Get the raviolis and get the hell out, you know, so. We, he, he, you know, my Favi, Faviola. Who takes care of us, she's our housekeeper. And she, she got the raviolis for us, so.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  We made raviolis with, I made kind of a sweet sauce, you know, cause I think that's nice with raviolis and I like. Sheep cheese, not, not cow cheese sometimes, so. So we, uh, we made the sauce, which was easy, I'll just try to show them. You know, you put the garlic in, you brown the garlic, you do not burn the garlic. You put the basil in, you know, but take it off the flank then. You know, I don't blanch the tomatoes, cause you can't buy tomatoes anymore that taste like tomatoes. So you get the same more, whatever it is, Marzella, whatever.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  And you get the mill. And you put the can of tomatoes in and you use the mill so that you don't get any seeds, right? So it goes in there. Now, sometimes you could get a little tomato paste, put it in, mix it, but.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  So you mix it together, I usually put it up, let it boil, then put it way down to like really low. And my family is always like.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  A teaspoon of salt, a tablespoon of sugar, but I do, I always do little at a time.

• 37:04Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  So, a quarter teaspoon of salt, half a teaspoon of sugar. Taste it, smell it, then let it cook. Smell it again, taste it again, a little more salt, a little more sugar. Taste it, smell it, see where it lives, then cover it and let it cook for like at least an hour or so. Then you put your water up, wait for it to boil, you put the salt in the water so it boils. You always wanna use the salt in the water so that it's like, it reminds you of the sea. So it tastes like the sea, right?

• 37:45Speaker 03

  So, you let it boil, then you take it out, and then you mix the sauce first on the bottom a little, then you put the raviolis on top, put a little more sauce on top, then you, I plated it for him, and I scraped it, I taught him how to do the artichokes, not the fattening ones. We just did artichokes in the water. You, you cut them, you, you open them, you, you chop up the garlic, you put the garlic in there, you chop up the parsley, Italian parsley, you put that in there, you put garlic in the water with the olive oil a little bit, and you let it cook a little slow. But that's gotta go on early, cause that takes forever to cook.

• 38:28Jessie Ware?

  Do you do a dip?

• 38:28Speaker 03

  Well, if you put the garlic in there, then you take the garlic out and you squeeze it into a bowl with a little olive oil, and smash it, and a little tiny bit of salt, and that becomes the dip.

• 38:42Jessie Ware?

  Gorgeous.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  You know, it's simple. Simple food is always better, and harder, because everybody likes to get complicated.

• 38:50Jessie Ware?

  Do you have a sweet tooth?

• 38:52Speaker 03

  Horrible.

• 38:53Jessie Ware?

  Oh, really?

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:54Jessie Ware?

  What's your go-to, like, sweet of choice that you'd have?

• 38:59Speaker 03

  I have to always stop myself. It doesn't matter. It's sugar. Um, no, but um.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  The Narrows, it's on Eleventh Street in Manhattan, between First and A. And it's the old, old Italian bakery. My favorite is the chocolate hazelnut cookies, cause it's um. It's egg white, really. With hazelnut and the pioli cookies. I used to make them a little. With the almond paste, so you can make it with the food processor. And then I tried to use the coconut sugar, so it wasn't so bad. You know. Did, did it taste as good? Yeah, it doesn't matter, you know, sugar's sugar, but you know, for me, anyway, but um.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that the pioli cookies are, you know, but that's how we grew up, you know. When, when people come over, you know, especially Christmas Day. They brought the rambacca, the cannolis, the, the, the, the trichloride cookies. The little honey balls, they're called um, something else, but you know, there, there was so much. And you know, the poor things, they would always be like, may, may, I got a, I got a, oh, get, get a promo sell, so, okay, you know. It's like, it was so funny. They were very funny, but you know, they would make the fatted calf, you know, they'd be like.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  You, you'd start out with salad or soup and then you get, she'd put the lasagna on the table. See, they'd eat, everybody eat the lasagna, then after lasagna, then came the meal and you'd be like, oh, you can. Then it was like, like lamb or turkey or, you know, it was always a meat thing. And then after that. They put out some cheese and nuts. And then here comes the dessert and it's like, oh my god. You know, and I and then my grandmother would always make her little um coffee in that little.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Oh, the little gassia, yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it would boil and for us, she'd put a little aniseed. Touch of aniseed and.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  In your espresso. What's what's an an what's aniseed? Aniseed. Aniseed, oh, aniseed, oh, I'm not sure, was it nice?

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  You know, uh whatever, you know, they had their coffee. When we were little, she put that in our water.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Drop and you and it would be all cloudy and you'd feel like a big grown up. Wow, I guess I need that fork.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  I hope it's. It's gorgeous. Doesn't it?

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Did you pay?

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I made it last night. She's a good chap.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  But it looks quite good. Just tell me how big a piece you want.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Small, please.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. Slither.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  I have a girdle on, so it's not gonna fucking work for me.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Do you want some cream? Yeah, I do.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's good, so.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  What's it taste like?

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Well, obviously fig.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Can you taste the fig?

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Yes, right on top.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Oh, shush.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  But you never know if they're gonna be good enough figs, do you?

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Mm, uh, is that, did you make that pastry? Yeah. Mum?

• 42:32Speaker 03

  It's really good, the pastry.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  It's very good.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  So how'd you do that? Just uh?

• 42:38Speaker 02

  With butter and flour.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Really?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Awesome.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  So it's quite crisp, isn't it?

• 42:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crunchy.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  It's crunchy. Poor Hollywood would give you a handshake for that. Can you taste the orange?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, yes, it's so good.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  This is good, mum.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  It's really good.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Well, good, could you take the rest home? Cindy, please take some for later. Do you think your group? I did bring some. Nikki would like some. I brought some cartons in case you wanted to take some soup home.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Just in case.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, you know. What about Lopa? Did she eat? Boy, she ate, she even took some home, boy.

• 43:19Jessie Ware?

  No, that's how we like it. Cindy, can you give me a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere?

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Oh, God. But they don't make cannolis like they used to when I was little. When my mother passed away in two thousand twenty-two,

• 43:38Speaker 03

  we went to Positano for the first time. And they had a cook there. And I was really kind of a little beat up.

• 43:47Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  And my husband, and I also got this, um,

• 43:52Speaker 03

  stress thing on my face.

• 43:55Jessie Ware?

  Bell palsy?

• 43:56Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, just breakout, really bad. And I thought it was psoriasis, it just was nerves. And he, and my husband was like, maybe you don't want to go. I said, I'm going, I'm going, I'm gonna wear a mask, everything's good. So this lady started to cook. And everything she made, it was like I was little again.

• 44:20Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  Because when I was small, they were all Italian, making Italian food. You know, you know, they give you the pastina with the butter, or they make the sauce and it's just delicate, or they make, and it, and there they were, everything was zucchini, because they grew it, you know, and the cherry, the little tomatoes. And the tomatoes there taste like real tomatoes. Um, and they would, um, she would make it. And I just felt like a little kid. I just felt nourished and it took me way back to Brooklyn, you know?

• 45:02Speaker 03

  And, and I think that that kind of soul, that's soul food for me, you know?

• 45:08Jessie Ware?

  Do you go to Italy on holiday a lot?

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, but I wanna go to Sicily.

• 45:16Jessie Ware?

  Have you never been?

• 45:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:18Jessie Ware?

  Oh, right, right.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  You know, but I wanna see my family, but I don't wanna interrupt them and go, hey, I'm coming and, you know. Cause everybody is cuckoo, you know, I just want them to relax.

• 45:29Jessie Ware?

  Well, where, will you be touring Italy on your?

• 45:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 45:32Jessie Ware?

  Oh, what a shame.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Because, you know, it's always like.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  You can't go there, it's too expensive, you know.

• 45:39Jessie Ware?

  I know. Where are you touring, which European countries?

• 45:41Speaker 03

  I am going to Germany. So in Düsseldorf, all the German relatives are coming.

• 45:47Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  So my cousin, her, her husband, the kids. I know those kids since they were little and my cousin, I know her since she was little. And her father and her mother and her sister and her son, they were all coming. So it'd be fun. You know, but it's quick.

• 46:05Jessie Ware?

  Where else are you going?

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Uh, Berlin, Düsseldorf.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  We're going to Poland. I don't know anybody there, but.

• 46:14Jessie Ware?

  Jessie loves it.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  I've never been to Poland.

• 46:17Jessie Ware?

  Oh, they're, I mean, they're a good crowd. They're quite devoted.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  Poland, you know, like who goes to Poland, but I figured, you know what? It's your farewell tour. You've never been to Poland, which means you'll never be if you don't go now. So.

• 46:29Jessie Ware?

  Is it really your farewell tour?

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Be your farewell tour.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 46:33Jessie Ware?

  Are you sure? Yeah, you're gonna be like Elton, though, who keeps on like, uh, yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  You ever go on tour?

• 46:38Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, which we did, no, you loved it.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  You know, know what it's like.

• 46:42Jessie Ware?

  No, well, we, no, I tell you, we went on a, a podcast tour.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:45Jessie Ware?

  Lenny, first timer, ordering cocktails, drinks, champagne, having the time of her life up late. First tour, last tour, I was like, I need to rest my voice and go to sleep. Lenny was in the hotel bar having a big one.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, but.

• 47:01Jessie Ware?

  It's exhausting.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  The thing. First of all, you gotta pack, pack in, pack out. Even if you're not doing the packing, you're there. It's stressful. You gotta get your stuff done. You need your stuff to do your work. Then, you gotta make sure you have it. You gotta make sure you get there, get to sleep, get up. Go to the gig after five hours of doing what you have to do just to get to the gig. Then you gotta do the gig. Then, when you're done with the gig, even if you're feeling edgy, you still gotta get back, get stuff off of you, get undressed, try and steam. But that's gotta go into the truck and you gotta hurry up and, and, and then you gotta go on the double decker bus now. I haven't been on that.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, cuz you don't do double decker in the States. Yeah, well, I'm just wondering if I need that Velcro blanket. Because I'm in, you know, they put the star in the back. You ever be on the back of a? No, I saw where Jessie was. It's kinda like a freaking wash and dry cycle. Couldn't be doing that. You know, I tried to make the bed and I was being. But don't you feel sick? No, I just felt like I was in an Iowa Fuzzy episode. What about going to the bathroom? Oh, no solid waste. I know. That would be the very. When we first used to go on tour, my friend, she was the percussion player, Sue Hjoplas, we used to do this solid waste dancers.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  You know, but you know. But you're an amazing performer. No, I love it. I know, it's a lot, it's all the stuff around it, I know. Maybe you should do a residency in New York. Who knows? Yeah, it's not like I'm not gonna sing again. I'm just not gonna. Have you done a residency in Las Vegas? You like Las Vegas, do you?

• 48:54Speaker 02

  I think I, let's go New York, let's find a little.

• 48:59Speaker 03

  Honey, it's more than.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  But wouldn't it be good for your body, your psoriasis? She's got it under control, I think.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  Oh, hell no.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  You need, do you need?

• 49:12Speaker 03

  Moisture.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  A moisture, okay.

• 49:14Speaker 03

  I mean, you know.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  It is the driest place I've ever been to.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  My skin.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Your skin is, can I just say, you look gorgeous.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I did a facial this morning. I did the collagen pads. I do light therapy. I had platelets in my face. I work really hard at looking good.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  You look great.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  Because, yeah, well.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  And your skin is like parchment, it's beautiful.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Well, my mother had good skin and my great grandfather had good skin and my grandmother had good skin. But if you don't take care of it, and then of course, when I got psoriasis, I realised that the skin is an organ.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  And I had no idea, because when I was covered head to toe, that's when I learnt what the skin does. Because I was always freezing and cold and freezing and cold. And then I realised, oh, oh, that's what the skin does. It regulates body temperature.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Before we let you go.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  We're leaving, okay.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  I don't really want you to. You're holding an amethyst. I think it's an amethyst crystal.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Oh, am, yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Do you, do you travel with crystals a lot and do you?

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Yes, I got rocks.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  She's your type of gal. My kind of gal, yeah. Just he loves a crystal. A crystal, yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  You know.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Quartz. But you've got this one out. Is that just because it was in your pocket or are you feeling like you need it right now?

• 50:31Speaker 03

  I always hold this, my favourite rock. It's new. You can put your fingers like that, but it's kind of a, a quartz too.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  So it's a combination of quartz and amethyst together. And it's smoky. And it's got some action in there, so it's, it's good. It's just grounding, it's good, you know. I have other stones that I take.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  I like them, but you know, my husband thinks you don't need any more rocks, you know. But, um, yeah.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Does your husband travel with you? Never?

• 51:07Speaker 03

  No, he's. You, you know, he'll.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Girls just want to have fun, eh?

• 51:10Speaker 03

  No, no, he'll, he'll come to see me. He, he came five times to see the show in the States. And he was fantastic and he took pictures. I'll show you the pictures. That that come, cause they come dressed up. It's a, it's a safe place for people to come and just be who you are. And have fun, no judgment. It's happy, make you laugh, people crying, dancing.

• 51:42Jessie Ware?

  My daughter did um True Colors in her Christmas um concert. I, listen, I know it's a huge gay anthem, but also it's for everyone, it's for, it's for everybody, but. Have to say, a big gang of kids singing it really hit the spot. Children sing it.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's moving when children sing anything that they, that they feel, that that makes them feel. Good and for me, there are some special songs and I was, I'm grateful to be part of two songs. I didn't write them, they're my arrangements, but I didn't write them, girls and um.

• 52:22Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, True.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  And True Colors, you know.

• 52:24Jessie Ware?

  I thought, so who wrote True Colors? Cause I thought it was about your friend.

• 52:27Speaker 03

  Well, yes, I I I sang it because my friend had passed away. And he had asked me.

• 52:33Jessie Ware?

  Was it Gregory?

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Gregory, he had asked me to sing a song like That's What Friends Are For. He said.

• 52:38Jessie Ware?

  Gregory asked that.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  He said, write me a song like That's What Friends Are For. And I looked at him and I'm thinking, okay. And I'm thinking to myself, that's Burt Bacharach, huh, you know, that's a big order. So I tried. I wrote Boy Blue because I was very emotional, but I realized later that, you know. You can't pour out your heart and your liver for repetitive play. It has to be more, you know. But when I did True Colors, that was different because it was a healing song. And it was for us, for the people who survived him and for him. And. I didn't realize till years later. Because a lot of people gravitated to that song. There were little kids that were sick with cancer

• 53:25Speaker 03

  that used to hold on to that song and it made them feel better. And I'll be honest with you, in the beginning of my career, there were bags of fan mail that I didn't even see that just got tossed. And, and then I started to kind of get a few things and understand. You know, I knew that it was a healing song. I knew that. And it was really hard because with girls, you're trumpeting an idea. It's in a trumpet key. It's loud. You can get people's attention. With True Colors, everything was an interior rhythm. It was interior.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  The drum was meant to be like an archaic calling, like the oldest communication as a human is the drum, right? Because the drum, and you'd listen and they'd answer, right? So that was supposed to call from inside. And then I wanted the voice, my voice, to sound like I was whispering in your ear, especially if you're driving in a car. So there was this, this machine, it's the D S. And it kind of works both ways. You can take the S out or you can put the S in. And it just brought more breath to it.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  And I was able to make it so that in the tiniest voice, in the most tender voice, I could have that voice whisper to the most tender part of a person so that they would, wherever it hurt.

• 55:09Speaker 03

  It would heal. And then you sing these words. And I didn't, when I tried to put more music in it and give it welly, you know, as you guys say. Um. It, it, it didn't take it, it, it became a little corny. Hmm. Because when the sentiment is, is that strong. You didn't need that with the rest of it. You can't um, give it a strong. Yes. Powerful thing because it's powerful on its own. So I had to learn the power of a whisper. And that was a big change. So when I would be on TV, I was holding the crystal too, because I was scared to death.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Because all of a sudden, I had to grab people's attention with this song. And all I heard in my head was.

• 56:01Speaker 03

  Heal or heal.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  And I knew the song was a healing song, so I did it like that, that was my intention and I just. Let go. I see. And, and. Because when your intention is that. Sometimes, on a very commercial kinda thing. You kinda get through the gatekeepers and do something. That you get to be a part of something extraordinary. And all the musicians that played on that and the engineers and all the people that sold it. Were a part of that really special thing. And just as Girls was. Hmm. I mean, Girls, everybody just, ah, Girls just won't have fun.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  You know, and then I thought, yeah, and the wrestlers, right, why not, I'm a wrestling manager now, okay, you know. But underneath. Hmm. What was it saying? What was the video saying? The video was saying that don't matter what color you are or who you are. Diversity. So that every little girl could see herself and know that she too is entitled to a joyful experience in life. And that was the bottom line. And on top, yeah, all the gatekeepers like, ah, it's really catchy, you know, and it was. And it is, and it is fun. But underneath.

• 57:33Speaker 03

  Only time that I really felt and cried was at the first woman's demonstration.

• 57:41Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  When everybody wore pink hats and I saw these young girls with these signs. Girls just wanna have fundamental rights and I used to get in trouble for talking about feminism and blah blah. You know, why can't you just wear jeans and a T-shirt and saying, and what's the matter with you and blah, blah, blah, but. The little ones heard. And then that's why, when I saw the sign, I called up my friends who I started Two Colors with and I said, listen. You see what's going on here? Let's start the Girls Just Wanna Have Fundamental Rights Fund. And at first they were like, well, you know, it was such a. And then they said, okay. And that's what we did. And we've raised money and you could even go on the website.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  You can find Girls Just Wanna Have Fundamental Rights Fund and. See what we've done with the money, because we've raised money and what organizations we've given it to. And how we have helped and we're still raising money.

• 58:44Jessie Ware?

  You are extraordinary. You're inspiring. You're brilliant. You're a trailblazer. I wanna, no, but I wanna leave everyone with this. Funny story. My, my manager, who isn't here today. Went to see you, I think about twenty years ago or something.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Twenty years ago.

• 58:59Jessie Ware?

  You did a show at G A, G A Y.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  Gee, what's that?

• 59:03Jessie Ware?

  G A Y was big gay, it's a big gay night here and um in Soho. And you did, you did, I don't know, it must have been about twenty years ago or maybe.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, because I'm trying to figure what I wore because it was a lot of fun. And was it a gorilla outfit?

• 59:18Jessie Ware?

  Well, I'm not sure, but what I, what I, what I do know is that he was walking home with his new boyfriend. And they were walking home through Old Compton Street and a car drives past them. Window winds down. It's you and you say, hey, I'm going for breakfast. Come on, get in. And he said he didn't get in and it's one of the biggest mistakes of his life. I said that? Yes. I did that? Yes. Oh my god. He's just been to see you, you're inviting him for breakfast. He's too busy wanting to get home with David because they're at the beginnings of their relationship. Oh my god. I'm happy to say they're still together, but it is a big regret that he didn't jump in for breakfast. Oh my god, I can't believe I did that. I don't remember doing that, but wow. He just said it was one of the biggest regrets he's ever had. Oh, don't be. But he is still with his lovely guy.

• 1:00:03Jessie Ware?

  Well, that's not a regret then, is it? Um, thank you so much Cindy for being on this. You are brilliant and I think we could have done about a part one, a part two, a part three, a part four. I wish you all the best with the farewell tour. Thank you. Thank you, it's been such. I can't believe you cooked for us. Thank you.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  Oh no, it's a pleasure, my pleasure. I'm glad you're here.

• 1:00:23Jessie Ware?

  I even ate at my own wedding.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  I just wanna have fun.

• 1:00:42Jessie Ware?

  I wanna have a whole year of fun with Cindy Lorba.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  She's so great. She's amazing. She just is enthusiastic about everything. She's funny, talks.

• 1:00:54Jessie Ware?

  She has a story about everything. I didn't even get to ask her about Prince, like one of her good friends in Singing When You Were Mine and bet she had a good Prince story. I mean, didn't talk about the Goonies, I'm sorry, I acknowledge this. We had, you know, a certain amount of time and she had a lot of stories.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  And she's completely wonderful.

• 1:01:11Jessie Ware?

  She's fab, she's stylish, she's inspiring. And she's on tour next week in, uh, at the O2 and UK and Europe and you should go and see her because she'll put on quite a show. And just a big fan of Cindy Lorba. Food was really nice mum.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Oh, there's no buts today?

• 1:01:29Jessie Ware?

  No, it was great. Did she like the, did you like the borscht? Yeah, I mean, for like a beetroot soup, yeah, I like, it's not my biggest thing. Me neither. We're all gonna have pink wee later, aren't we? Are we? Yeah, and pink poo. Oh, okay. Just to warn you. Great. Um, but yeah, loved that. That was amazing. Right. That was like a whirlwind. Yeah. Did you like the tart? Loved the tart. Do you want that for your brunch tomorrow? No, uh, no, I'm fine. It's delicious though. Thank you so much to Cindy Lauper. Thanks mum for doing it. And also thanks to Andy for letting us use this flat today. Thank you, Andy Barker. Um, we'll see you soon, next week. Bye.

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