How to Deal With Betrayal and Take Your Power Back | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — In this episode, we are digging into #betrayal and learning how to get your power back after someone shatters your trust. Maybe someone cheated on you. Maybe someone stole from you in business. Perhaps it was a friend who stabbed you in the back. It’s painful. You might not be sure how to confront that person, or if it’s even worth it. Or if you did confront them, they may have denied and deflected, making you feel like something was wrong with you. Today’s episode will help you heal, change your perspective, and equip you with the tools you need to land on your feet and be smarter, more open and able to create healthier #relationships, partnerships, and friendships in the future. Xo Mel In this episode, you'll learn: 00:00 Intro 03:35 I was betrayed by someone in my business and this is what I learned. 04:47 Sonia asks her question about a painful betrayal. 07:17 Should you confront this person? Ask yourself this first. 09:10 Here’s how to have a conversation with someone who betrayed you. 12:34 You don’t need to have this in order to feel closure with someone. 16:29 Jenn reveals how her painful betrayal has changed her. 17:39 This is the hardest part of betrayal to grasp. Please play on repeat. 19:35 Here is what you’re actually grieving after you’ve been betrayed. 20:36 You need to change your story of betrayal. Here’s how. 22:10 Trying to work through betrayal with someone you love? Listen to this. 35:00 Here is what the experts say about affairs. 39:04 The advice from Jenn that you need to hear if you’ve just been betrayed. — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Mel Robbins?

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to a tough love episode of the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 0:11Mel Robbins?

  I'm Mel Robbins, welcome. I'm a New York Times bestselling author and one of the most respected experts in the world on change and motivation. And today, I'm really excited to tell you that we have picked two listeners of the Mel Robbins Podcast to join me today because they have written in and asked advice about a topic that I unfortunately know a lot about, and that topic is betrayal. And unfortunately, at some point, we all experience it. What do you do when you find out that someone you love has cheated on you, or stolen from you, or lied to you, or stabbed

• 0:52Mel Robbins?

  you behind your back? Well, today, you're going to meet two people that this has happened to, and you're going to learn what to do, and more importantly, how to get your power back, because you can get your power back. You're going to learn today that you always have options, no matter how much this betrayal cuts you to the core. And I'm also going to share stories of betrayal that have happened to me. And so I want to start by thanking both of our listeners today for not only writing in, but for agreeing to come on the show, and for allowing me to invite you into their private coaching session. Because by sharing their challenges and you getting to

• 1:33Mel Robbins?

  hear the advice in real time, they're really doing the work for all of us to create a better life. And I want to thank you because we have been blown away by the number of questions and the topics that you keep submitting at melrobbins.com. And I also am loving the video questions that you're DMing me on Instagram. And I'm excited to tell you, we have a brand new call-in number that you can call at any time and leave a question for me here on the show, and that number is going to always be in the show notes from now on. And so when you listen to their private coaching session, listen with intention.

• 2:13Mel Robbins?

  Because whether you're in this situation or not, you will get something amazing out of this. There will be an insight that strikes you right to your core. And this is also one of those episodes that I know you're gonna love having as a resource, because you can share it with friends and family when they experience betrayal, and you just wanna help them. Because unfortunately, at some point, we all experience it. And that brings me to the very first question. It's from Sonia. And you better buckle up, because this first coaching session, it takes an unexpected turn near the end, and it's a doozy. See, Sonia listened to the episode called, "The Three Lessons I Learned During the Worst Year of My Life."

• 2:56Mel Robbins?

  And it's usually during the worst moments of your life that you get the biggest lessons. And so I share this story about how, a year ago, at the beginning of 2022, I found out that somebody that I trusted was in my business stealing from me. They lied to me, to my face, over and over and over. They lied to team members over and over. And when I finally figured out what was going on, I realized they had been doing this for a long-ass time. This betrayal knocked me on my knees. I felt so stupid when I first discovered it. Then I felt hurt, then I was furious, and it was painful.

• 3:41Mel Robbins?

  It was a painful lesson about trust. And it was also a painful lesson, but a lesson that I needed. I needed this lesson in order to be able to establish better boundaries and to level up as a businesswoman. Sonia heard me tell this story, and she wanted more. She wanted to learn more. She had more questions to ask. She wanted to know, "Mel, how did you handle the person who betrayed you? What did you do?" Because she was dealing with a betrayal in her life, too.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Hi, Mel. I'm Sonia from New Zealand.

• 4:15Mel Robbins?

  Hi.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  How did you deal with betrayals from your friends? Did you confront them and make peace with them in the end? Or can you move on without making peace in some way? And then as you just fill your life with people who are much better humans?

• 4:30Mel Robbins?

  Excellent question. So, in this particular instance, I did not confront the person, mainly because they had logins to a bunch of stuff related to our business. And I had to first, once I realized this was going on, get the digital business safe and secure. And so that took a couple of weeks. And I didn't want to send up any red flags that any issue was going on while we did that. But then, I made this decision. I thought, why would I confront this person?

• 5:14Mel Robbins?

  And what I realized in this particular instance is that I had already poured so much energy into the situation that confronting the person, or trying to close the door and tell them what I had figured out, that that would cause so much negative energy in my life, that I chose to not say anything and just move on. And here's what I have to say. I wouldn't necessarily do the same thing in a different situation. I mean, the person that stole all this money from me and damaged my business, they were in a different country.

• 5:55Mel Robbins?

  So even though I could have hired legal counsel, and I could have gone after this person, when I thought about the time, the energy, the just emotional cost of doing that, it was too expensive to pursue it. Sometimes your peace of mind is worth way more than the money that you would get by confronting something. And that's what I determined for myself. But here's the thing. There's a lot of cases, for you personally, and for me, where the right thing to do is to confront somebody. And there have been situations that I've been in in the past where I did get a lawyer involved. So what you have to do, whenever you're in this situation where somebody's betrayed you, is you have to ask yourself, what's my goal here?

• 6:38Mel Robbins?

  My number one goal is protect my business, protect my peace, learn this lesson. What's in it for me? Am I trying to fix the person? Am I trying to make them wrong? Am I trying to repair the situation? Am I looking for a gotcha moment? Do I deserve to make this wrong or right? Do I need to go after them legally? No. And then you gotta ask yourself, well, what do I need to say for closure? And should I do this because it's gonna make me feel confident? And there may be a time in your life where you have to hear yourself say out loud to the person that betrayed you. I know what you did. And I will not have you in my life because I will not surround myself with people

• 7:23Mel Robbins?

  who do this kind of thing. And I forgive you, but you're not welcome back in my life as a friend, as a partner. You can just shut the door after that conversation. You can forgive somebody. You can call them out. And you don't have to let them back in. You don't have to give them a second chance. And so it comes down to what you want out of this. And if your goal is to stay in the relationship, to use this betrayal as the door that needed to get kicked open in order for you to face stuff that's not working. If you do decide to stay in the friendship or the relationship, you have to have a conversation.

• 8:05Mel Robbins?

  You have to explain that you know what they did and that you know what they're doing is wrong and how their behavior is impacting you. And one way that you can set the conversation up, if that's what you're inclined to do because you wanna see if you can repair the relationship or you need to say something in order to feel like you're complete, is you can say, I need to apologize for something, which always kind of makes people feel a little like, oh, what? You did something wrong? So they're not gonna be defensive? And then you say, yeah, there's something that's been bothering me and I need to apologize that I didn't come to you sooner with this.

• 8:47Mel Robbins?

  And then you can also say, I take responsibility that it's impacting me this way. And then explain how their behavior is making you feel. You're not attacking them, you're not telling them they did X, Y, and Z. You're explaining how it's impacting you. And based on their reaction, you will know whether or not this is somebody that you want in your life. If their reaction is, "That's ridiculous. I didn't mean that. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. You're being too sensitive. Bye." That's what you do. You got all the information you need.

• 9:27Mel Robbins?

  But if their reaction is, "I had no idea you felt that way. I feel terrible. Tell me what I can do." Like, that's a friendship that you want to save. Does that make sense?

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. It's something that I've already, I've moved on from these people. Whenever I've shared anything with how any of their reactions made me feel or the impact it had on my life, they just simply aren't interested.

• 9:51Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, well, there's all you need to know, right? And so here's the second piece of transformation that I want for you. You ready?

• 9:59Mel Robbins?

  There are patterns in life that repeat until you get the lesson. And for me, the biggest lesson about this betrayal by this person in business is that when I look back through my life

• 10:20Mel Robbins?

  and I think, "Hmm, what other relationships or friendships or colleagues, anything? What other relationships had the same feeling for me as this relationship? I can see a very similar pattern of the kind of person that I was drawn to or that was in my inner circle or that, you know, I was a really good friend with. And then all of a sudden, I realized, "Oh, my gosh, this person's mean and the gossip behind people's back. And now I'm scared because they're a friend of mine and like, I don't know how to get out of this." I could see a very distinct pattern. And so maybe the lesson for you goes even deeper, which is not only when something's working or feels off to say something,

• 11:05Mel Robbins?

  notice somebody's reaction. And that tells you whether or not this is a friendship to lean into or one to pull away from. But the other lesson could be, are there particular personality types or relationship dynamics that draw you in that turn out to not be good for you?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I feel like I've learned the lesson because this is with my ex-husband and everything that happened. And so I just, yeah, he keeps reaching out to try and have a friendship going forward. But because of everything that happened, I'm not interested.

• 11:38Mel Robbins?

  Yes, you don't need to have a conversation with somebody in order to have closure. We often chase other people down. And we say we want closure, but what we're actually looking for is confirmation or we're looking for some sort of assurance. We want to feel better. You can do that for yourself if you're very clear about why this isn't working for you and what your boundaries are. And it sounds to me like you're very clear. You don't need to have a conversation. You've already had the conversation and their behavior in it told you everything you need to know.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the feeling because anytime I bring anything up about how anything's impacted me, it just re-brings up all of the old stuff again. And it's just too hard. So I just have to let them all go and just like let my life carry on.

• 12:27Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, and you also, is there a request you need to make of your husband?

• 12:33Speaker 01

  It's my ex-husband.

• 12:34Mel Robbins?

  Oh, your ex-husband, excuse me. So he was friends with them, so he's not part of this really?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  No, he is. It was like the stuff that happened that ended my marriage.

• 12:45Mel Robbins?

  Oh.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  With my best friend.

• 12:48Mel Robbins?

  Oh, so is he with your best friend?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  He is, yeah. He came out, he's bisexual, so he's with both of them.

• 12:55Mel Robbins?

  Wow. That's a lot.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a lot.

• 13:00Mel Robbins?

  And that's exactly why you don't need to have them in your life.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:05Mel Robbins?

  And you don't owe anybody an explanation.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Mel Robbins?

  You deserve peace.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been really good. I've got so many beautiful new humans in my life and just, yeah, experiencing that kind of love and friendship from my new friends and my new boyfriend. That's really beautiful.

• 13:22Mel Robbins?

  Wonderful. That's great. I'm proud of you.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Hmm. You've helped a lot. Thank you.

• 13:29Mel Robbins?

  Well, I appreciate you being here, but you keep the credit because you did the work.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Thank you very much for your share.

• 13:37Mel Robbins?

  You're welcome. Whew. I'll tell you what, there is no doubt. Life is always trying to teach you something. That is for sure. And I hope that one of the lessons that you learn, not only from my story, but also from the coaching with Sonya, is that you don't need to seek closure from somebody else. You can do that for yourself. And what I need to say to everybody listening is, if you've been broken up with, or if you've got a friendship where the behaviors turned toxic, or you've got something going on, you don't need to have a conversation about it. Their behavior has told you what you need to know. If you're still questioning it, have the conversation

• 14:22Mel Robbins?

  in the way that I suggested, where you apologize for withholding this. You tell somebody how their behavior or lack of behavior makes you feel, and then watch their reaction. If they're caring and kind, wonderful. If they're not, wonderful. You know what to do. Close the frickin' door on that relationship. Do not accept that behavior in your life, period. Not from somebody that's not willing to do the work to repair this. All right, we gotta take a short break to hear a word from our sponsors, but when we come back, we have got a second person that is dealing with betrayal, and this one is even more emotional.

• 15:16Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. It's Mel and I'm so glad you're here because our next question today comes from Jen. And the reason why I invited Jen on the podcast is because there was something about the way she wrote this initial question. And she wrote to me that, like me, she too had had one of the most difficult years of her life. And I thought, now, this woman Jen, she seems like a person who's going to put her heart on the line. I can just sense that about some people. She is ready to be vulnerable. She's ready to have a breakthrough. And I sense there was a lot more under the surface here. So Jen, I want to welcome you to the

• 15:59Mel Robbins?

  podcast. Can you start by just introducing yourself and asking your question again?

• 16:03Speaker 02

  So my name is Jen and I am from Pennsylvania. I have a lot of difficulty giving myself credit, as you suggested that we do, especially this past year, which has been just extraordinarily painful. How can I overcome that?

• 16:20Mel Robbins?

  I love your question. So, why has this last year been extraordinarily painful?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Not getting into too much detail, there was some betrayal that happened in my life. And it's just affected every aspect of who I am. Like, I question everything now, like everything I thought I was, everything I thought I could do, like it's all, like it's all just been ripped away. And I can't, I can't overcome it.

• 16:59Mel Robbins?

  You can overcome it.

• 17:04Mel Robbins?

  You won't, at the moment. And let me give you advice about betrayal, okay?

• 17:12Mel Robbins?

  And this is really hard to get.

• 17:15Mel Robbins?

  And as somebody who has both been betrayed, and who, earlier in my life, was somebody who was the betrayer, I can speak to both sides of this. And what I want to say, and this is the hardest thing to grasp, it has nothing to do with you.

• 17:38Mel Robbins?

  What that person did in your life has nothing to do with you.

• 17:47Mel Robbins?

  It has to do with their pain, it has to do with their neurochemistry, it has to do with their coping mechanisms, their trauma, their dysfunction, their pain. It doesn't make it any easier when you're on the receiving end of it.

• 18:08Mel Robbins?

  Say, and just repeat,

• 18:12Mel Robbins?

  "It literally has nothing to do with me." This is a very hurt-and-loss person who is coping with that hurt and that loss in an incredibly destructive way.

• 18:27Mel Robbins?

  But in no way, shape, or form does their bullshit determine whether or not I'm lovable, or whether or not I trust people, or whether or not I'm good enough. They have revealed a very broken side of themselves,

• 18:47Mel Robbins?

  that they have chosen to escape, numb, deflect, all of it, instead of facing it in the mirror.

• 18:58Mel Robbins?

  And it's really hard, because you've got to go through a process of grieving what you thought it was

• 19:08Mel Robbins?

  in order to have yourself unhook from it.

• 19:14Mel Robbins?

  Because what you're actually grieving right now, and I'm just gonna, you haven't given me any details, but I'm just going to, you know, talk from my own experience. You're grieving the future that you thought was gonna happen, and you're grieving the reality of what you thought was going on. Yeah. And that's incredibly destabilizing. And so, you gotta give yourself time, I'd say a year, to really just move through the anger, the pissed-offness, the hurt, the "how could they have done this?", "how could

• 19:59Mel Robbins?

  I not have seen this?", "how could they have lied?", all of it. And then at some point, you're gonna hit this saturation point, where you have soaked up so much of the misery, that you will no longer wanna feel it. And the only thing that will help you, like a sponge, squeeze that shit out of your being, is when you say, "Wow, I actually feel sorry for that person.

• 20:37Mel Robbins?

  I feel sorry that they're so screwed up, that their only way to cope with that is to either cheat, or lie, or steal, or whatever. Because it's easier than facing the truth." Yeah. Some people are so scared of disappointment, or upset, or pain, that they are willing to drug, smoke, drink, or fuck their way through life.

• 21:14Mel Robbins?

  Because the momentary rush of dopamine that you feel when you snort cocaine, or you have an orgasm, or you're flirting with somebody in secret, or you're stealing, that relieves you of the deep pain that you're feeling. That's why people do that.

• 21:33Mel Robbins?

  And you were hurt. You didn't deserve it. But I'll tell you what else. You don't deserve, and you shouldn't be, in a relationship with somebody who is not willing to face that shit. Who is not willing to heal with you. Who is not willing to do the work. And so, you know, I'm being tough with you because this person already got how many years of your life?

• 22:05Mel Robbins?

  14. In my opinion. If two people are willing to do the work, any relationship can come through and be stronger, even in the face of betrayal. No question. But only if both of you are willing to come to the table and do the work together. You to forgive, and the other person to face their shit that led to this.

• 22:41Mel Robbins?

  And if they're not,

• 22:45Mel Robbins?

  then all you can do is grieve what wasn't, and grieve the future you thought you were gonna have. And take a hefty amount of empathy to feel sorry for somebody, that this is who they are, as hard as it is, and at some point to truly, honestly be grateful that all this crap got revealed. So that you can move forward with somebody who's healthy. And the somebody I'm referring to is you.

• 23:23Mel Robbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that.

• 23:28Mel Robbins?

  And one other thing.

• 23:31Mel Robbins?

  Even though this has nothing to do with you.

• 23:35Mel Robbins?

  When you look across the 14 years. There are probably things that you can see. Where you let shit slide. Or you didn't say what you really meant.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  I blame myself when I, when I look back and kind of assess all of those things like I, I do find things that I have let slide. So then I blame myself for letting it go.

• 23:59Mel Robbins?

  No, it's just a lesson. And sometimes lessons we learn easily and sometimes we need sledgehammers.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:07Mel Robbins?

  And this is a sledgehammer. And so as you move forward in your life, whether you do so on your own or you do so, you know, working through this with somebody.

• 24:20Mel Robbins?

  One of the things to do is not to blame yourself. It's to say, oh, I now know that I will never do this again. That when I feel a certain way, I won't be silent. When I have a hunch, I won't talk myself out of it. That when I'm being disrespected, I will address it.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 24:44Mel Robbins?

  And that's what you're learning from this. It's one of the thousand things that you're about to learn from this. And one other thing I want to tell you.

• 24:55Mel Robbins?

  Is. I promise you.

• 25:00Mel Robbins?

  The road ahead.

• 25:04Mel Robbins?

  You got the best years of your life ahead of you.

• 25:09Mel Robbins?

  You do. And I think you know that.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  I, I, I want to know that. I want to think that. It's just. Then I get into my head and that's kind of where I live.

• 25:25Mel Robbins?

  What's the thing that you say that tortures you the most?

• 25:31Speaker 02

  That I'm not good enough?

• 25:37Speaker 02

  That it happened because I'm not good enough, not pretty enough, not thin enough, not...

• 25:45Speaker 02

  All of it.

• 25:48Mel Robbins?

  How's that feel?

• 25:49Speaker 02

  It sucks.

• 25:53Mel Robbins?

  Do you want a different story?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  I do.

• 25:56Mel Robbins?

  Great. I want a different story for you too, because there's a very different interpretation of this whole thing, you know, and I'm going to tell you what it is after the break.

• 26:19Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and today we are coaching listeners who have experienced betrayal. And unfortunately, as you're learning, this is a topic that I have a lot of experience in. And we were just talking with Jen, and I was explaining the fact that one of the most important steps that you need to take is you've got to start telling yourself a different story about what happened.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:43Mel Robbins?

  And so here's one, Jen, that I want you to start telling yourself. It happened because he's an asshole who has a lot of trauma, who doesn't want to face it, and who's been avoiding it. And we also know who will likely do the same thing to the next person if he doesn't face it now. Because people who avoid the hard things, the pain they're feeling, or the trauma that they experienced when they were little, when people use avoidance as a coping mechanism, guess what they continue to do? To avoid. And again, this is where it comes down to the fact that this betrayal has nothing to do with you. And I know that's

• 27:26Mel Robbins?

  hard to grasp, I really do. But I want you to start to tell yourself the story that this has nothing to do with me. This has to do with his shit. This has to do with him not having the coping mechanism to face his pain. And this is a wake-up call. That's what this is. It has nothing to do with me.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  I do want to be clear that he is trying to own his crap. It's just, it's me living in my head and...

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Like, I know that part of me knows that it's not my fault, that it's not that I'm not good enough. And all of the things that you said, it's just, like, I'm a highly sensitive person, I'm an empath, I'm an idiot, like, all of those things. And I just, it's me trying to overcome those things for me.

• 28:15Mel Robbins?

  Hmm. Then let me give you a different interpretation, and a different story. Because you two are trying to work together through this.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:26Mel Robbins?

  Great. And let me tell you why I think that's great. I don't know a single couple that has gone through something horrible, and, look, Chris and I have gone through horrible stuff. I don't know a single couple who spends time in therapy and works through it, who doesn't come out on the other side and say, "I wish I hadn't worked on it."

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:54Mel Robbins?

  But I do know a number of people that have gotten divorced that wish they had tried to work through it. And so, working through it matters, not so you can stay together, but it matters because if you don't stay together, you will be better co-parents and friends. And that's important. But the likelihood is if you're both willing to come to the table, and he in particular is willing to do the work, then the odds are in your favor. And you will come through this stronger. So the story I want you to tell yourself is this. What if

• 29:43Mel Robbins?

  he did this because it was the only way he could stay in the marriage? Because he was feeling so lost, and so depressed, and so whatever?

• 30:00Mel Robbins?

  That he was the one who didn't feel good enough. And it's not about you, or the other person being thin, or whatever else. That he was at a point in his life that he lost who he was. And he might as well have been having sex with a frickin dinner plate, for crying out loud. Because it's not about the other person. It's about him chasing an old version of himself. And if there's a dynamic in your relationship where he thinks he's failing, or he thinks he's not good enough, that's what this is about. It's not about you not being good enough, it's about him not measuring up for you.

• 30:43Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, I like that story a lot better. And you know what else I like a lot better? That it was sex, or an emotional connection, and not heroin.

• 30:56Mel Robbins?

  I don't know, I'd kind of prefer the heroin, I think. Right now, you would. Yeah.

• 31:02Mel Robbins?

  Because we want to make this stuff about us. Of course it hurts you. Of course, it's devastating.

• 31:11Mel Robbins?

  And one of the biggest things you will learn from this, if you allow yourself to, is you'll learn that forgiveness only happens when you stop wishing things were different.

• 31:24Mel Robbins?

  And that you can love somebody profoundly,

• 31:29Mel Robbins?

  and at the same time, do shit that hurts them profoundly.

• 31:36Mel Robbins?

  And that through the act of understanding what happened, and really allowing yourself

• 31:47Mel Robbins?

  to be in a space where you can hear how broken, hurt, lost, whatever, regretful, whatever the feelings are.

• 32:01Mel Robbins?

  You will truly connect with this person at a level you never have. Yeah. And this is not easy.

• 32:11Mel Robbins?

  It will be worth it regardless of what happens. And the more you tell yourself, this has nothing to do with me, this is about him being broken. It's about him not measuring up. It's about him needing to escape these feelings instead of dealing with them.

• 32:29Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. And it takes a lot of courage on both of your parts to face this.

• 32:42Mel Robbins?

  And if you guys can get to a point where you understand what happened, and you keep the lines of communication open and you keep going to therapy, you'll have a stronger marriage than 99% of the people out there.

• 32:59Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, I keep hearing that. That's what I'm holding on to. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you're on the bridge. I love using this metaphor that all change is a bridge. And this happens to be one that's about as long as the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.

• 33:14Mel Robbins?

  And it's a suspension bridge, which means when the winds pick up, it blows.

• 33:19Mel Robbins?

  And it will get better. And it will get in the rearview mirror. And by going to therapy together, whether you stay together or it ends up not being what you want, you will have such a better understanding of yourself and an understanding of what happened that you won't carry the resentment and the self-blame, because it's not about you. It has nothing to do with you. In fact, in the best of all scenarios, what you're gonna learn is that when somebody feels inadequate or that they've failed you,

• 33:59Mel Robbins?

  it has more to do with how much they love you,

• 34:03Mel Robbins?

  as screwed up as that sounds.

• 34:09Mel Robbins?

  That's hard for me to follow.

• 34:12Mel Robbins?

  Ask your therapist. Yeah, yeah, oh, I will. I don't know the details of what happened, but I just am trying to tell you that if he didn't love you, he would have left.

• 34:26Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 34:33Mel Robbins?

  When you look at what the experts say about affairs, psychotherapist Esther Perel, she's a New York Times bestselling author. She is the expert on why people cheat, even people who are still in love with their spouses. And what Esther says over and over again is that affairs are often people searching for parts of themselves that they feel that they've lost. That's what they are. And they're not fair, and they're not right. And you don't deserve this. And he's very fucking lucky that you didn't just end it because you both have a chance to grow from this now if you're willing to work on it. And you said that he is trying to own his crap. Right. And that's a good thing.

• 35:19Mel Robbins?

  Because the other reason why people have affairs is they have affairs because of past trauma, because of addiction. And the affairs and the dopamine rush is an escape from a very painful life or a very painful existence. It's just like an addiction to drugs, to porn. It is a way to numb out. And so I am glad that he hasn't left. I am glad that he is trying to own his crap. And I am glad that the two of you are going to turn toward each other and try to grow through this. Yeah. And that's a gift, even though it doesn't fucking feel like one you want to unwrap.

• 36:05Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 36:10Mel Robbins?

  You're on the bridge.

• 36:14Mel Robbins?

  Just keep crossing the bridge. And trust that when you get to the other side,

• 36:21Mel Robbins?

  it's gonna be way better than you can imagine.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I hope so. Thank you.

• 36:27Mel Robbins?

  You're welcome. You're gonna be okay. Just let yourself feel this shit, dude.

• 36:34Mel Robbins?

  Like, that's what you gotta do. And the thing that I also wanna tell you is, like, when you get pissed, like, write it all out. Like, you're probably past the lashing out part and screaming, but, maybe not, I don't know.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  This is the most part, yeah.

• 36:53Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, like, it just... Allow yourself to be a little human.

• 36:59Mel Robbins?

  And now that you're kinda through that part, keep steering yourself toward, okay, how do I understand what happened? How do I create a space for healing? How do I forgive what happened? Like, that's the North Star. Because whether you stay together, especially if you stay together, but even if it ends, I don't want you to carry this resentment or this lack of trust into what happens next.

• 37:24Mel Robbins?

  Heal this for yourself. And if the marriage is the right thing for you, you'll know.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:36Mel Robbins?

  Thank you for being so honest with us and vulnerable.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Thank you very, very much. Thank you. You have no idea how much you have just helped me change my life. So, thank you.

• 37:47Mel Robbins?

  You're welcome, and you're continuing to do it. And, you know, I think sometimes, too,

• 37:53Mel Robbins?

  this is happening because you're not supposed to have that kinda shit going on in your life. That as you level up your own standards for yourself, what's amazing is all of the crap that's not working comes to the surface.

• 38:14Mel Robbins?

  And that's because you're not supposed to have a life that's out of integrity.

• 38:20Mel Robbins?

  That's not what you want, that's not what you stand for. And sometimes, bringing things into integrity means a lot of shit comes to the surface, and you gotta get a shovel.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:39Mel Robbins?

  You are gonna be just fine.

• 38:44Mel Robbins?

  You're not only gonna be fine, you're gonna be happy. And you're gonna be stronger because of this. And you're gonna have a deeper capacity for love. And you are going to surprise yourself.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, I have. I already have, for sure.

• 39:03Mel Robbins?

  Name one thing

• 39:07Mel Robbins?

  that

• 39:09Mel Robbins?

  has surprised you about yourself or that you're proud of? Because I want somebody that's at the beginning of this kind of breakdown

• 39:18Mel Robbins?

  to hear somebody further across the bridge.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  I am very surprised. I had no idea how strong I really am. And you hear that all the time. You know, you don't know how strong you are until it's time to be strong. So honestly, if there is anybody, just believe in yourself. Just it

• 39:42Speaker 02

  you're stronger than you think. You absolutely are.

• 39:47Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. Is there anything else that surprised you? As you've navigated this?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Um.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Honestly, my ability to kind of try to be compassionate.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Like I've always been, you know, of the mindset, you know, I won't say in a relationship where there was infidelity. It's just it's not how I'm gonna work. And then you're in the situation and it's completely different than anything you thought it would be.

• 40:18Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  But just to be able to

• 40:24Speaker 02

  overcome, I mean, get like, I know I already said this, but like, just being, I'm so much stronger than I thought. And that's, that's how I get through my days. And like, I just, I grace, gratitude. I say that to myself all day long, just learning to show myself grace. Finding things to be grateful for and keeping my head down and just, just keep going. Go to the therapy, do the hard work.

• 40:48Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  All of the things. Grace, grit, and gratitude.

• 40:50Mel Robbins?

  You're crossing the bridge in the fog, in a rainstorm.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 40:54Mel Robbins?

  And here's what I also want you to be proud of. You are compassionate because you have a very deep capacity to love.

• 41:06Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. And part of loving is also being able to accept and understand

• 41:16Mel Robbins?

  someone else. Now, that doesn't mean condone. Right. That doesn't mean you're responsible for it. That doesn't mean that you're making excuses for it.

• 41:31Mel Robbins?

  But attempting to understand somebody else's pain. Yeah. And bringing compassion to something that somebody is dealing with, even though their dysfunction profoundly broke your heart, that's an act of love.

• 41:58Mel Robbins?

  That's why you're gonna be okay.

• 42:02Mel Robbins?

  I love you. I love you. Thank you. You're welcome.

• 42:15Mel Robbins?

  Can we just take a minute and collectively send some positive energy and some gratitude at Sonya and Jen? I am just, I'm proud of them. And I appreciate what it took to come and talk to me about this deeply personal thing. I mean, this is not easy stuff. This is what people are dealing with and not talking about. And so I so appreciate Sonya and Jen for sharing everything that they shared and being open to going even deeper than they thought they probably would. And if you had a lightbulb moment,

• 43:00Mel Robbins?

  I hope that you will take whatever insight that you gained, and you will find the courage and the confidence to apply the advice that rang true for you. And there may be somebody in your life who's going through something very painful right now, and it's been very hard for you to figure out what to say to them. Don't worry, that's where your friend Mel Robbins comes in. I'm always here as your friend and theirs. I'll be here to give you a push, to share my experiences, my wins, my heartbreaks, so that you know you're not alone in this. I'll also tell you the truth, and I'll probably give you a little bit more tough love than you're ready for. But that's why we do this podcast twice a week.

• 43:42Mel Robbins?

  It's not just for listening, it's for doing. Because at some point, you're gonna have to do something that scares you, or you're gonna have to do something different to create a better life and the life that you deserve. And one more thing, in case no one else tells you, I'm gonna be sure to tell you that I love you, and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to face the really hard shit that goes down in life, to call people out, or to silently, confidently, just close the fucking door and move on and learn the lesson. Because it's in doing these things every day that you create a better you, and you create a more meaningful life.

• 44:26Mel Robbins?

  A better life, a trusting life, a life that you love. Alrighty, I'll see you in a couple days.

• 44:45Mel Robbins?

  Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.