Audio Flux

This week we're featuring Audio Flux, a short-form audio challenge where artists squeeze surprising stories into three minutes.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Roman Mars?

  Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections on by default. Built-in content settings for the content teens can see, contact limits for who can contact them, and time management tools like daily time limits and sleep mode. Teens are automatically placed into teen accounts, and teens under 16 will need a parent's permission to change any of these settings to be less strict. Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. Some design was made to be seen by all, like, for example, the seven wonders of the world. I mean, everyone should see those. While some were made to be less seen, like sewer systems.

• 0:44Roman Mars?

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• 1:28Roman Mars?

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• 1:55Roman Mars?

  This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars. Years ago, I worked with my friend Julie Shapiro at the Third Coast International Audio Festival. And for more than a decade, Third Coast hosted a competition for short-form documentaries based on a specific challenge. They were called short docs.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  We would invite people to make short audio stories inspired by a set of prompts. And we just trusted the fact that if you invite people to make something and give them a little bit of parameters to play with, you know, my mantra is like, it always works. You can always invite people to get creative and they will always respond in some fashion.

• 2:32Roman Mars?

  Over the years, I must have listened to dozens of short docs. And hearing them gave me this jolt of inspiration. They were a reminder about what was possible with audio and how the whole medium benefits when there's a place for all kinds of storytelling. However, in recent years, the audio business has changed. Long-form conversation-type podcasts dominate, and it's made it harder for documentary and short-form experimental audio to find a home, which is why Julie Shapiro and her creative partner, John Delore, created Audioflux.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  We thought, you know, everything is longer and longer and longer and longer. So what if we could, you know, create some energy around a short form? So John and I decided to create Audioflux, which is sort of a new version of the short docs challenge, but maybe a little bit more for the podcasting age.

• 3:21Roman Mars?

  Audioflux was recently recognized by The New Yorker as one of the best podcasts of 2025. And I want to share this project because I'm a big fan of what Julie and John are creating. And I want to expand your definition of what a podcast can be. We're going to play some Audioflux stories in a bit, but first I'm going to talk with Julie about how it all works.

• 3:43Roman Mars?

  So let's start off with a bit of an origin story here. How did you and John first arrive at the idea for Audioflux?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we started in the spring of 2023, talking to each other. John and I had kind of known each other for, known of each other, really. We had a lot of people in common because we both had these long histories of working in public radio and coming into podcasting, you know, in its, in its early heydays. And so we were talking in the spring because he had just been let go from a job with a big podcast company and I was in between positions. And we were just talking about how morale seemed really low, low in the creative audio corner of podcasting and in our community and amongst our friends. The people we kept talking to felt, I just like really could sense this industry fatigue, you know, at every turn.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  And we started thinking about what could we do in this moment together that might reverse some of that or give people something to appreciate, you know, audio for the sake of audio. And this idea for Audio Flux came out of that kind of motivation to offer something back to the community and also do something that would bring our own spirits up at the same time.

• 4:52Roman Mars?

  So how does it work? Like, how do you get people to do it? How do you set up the structure for this sort of challenge?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  So twice a year, we, we run circuits. And for each circuit, we have a different creative partner, like an illustrator or a pet portrait artist or a writer. And it's with that partner that the theme for the circuit and the prompts that we invite people to respond to are designed. So it boils down to that formula.

• 5:17Roman Mars?

  And another part of the Audio Flux design is that each story is only three minutes long. So why three minutes?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  So we thought three minutes would be inviting enough to convince people to try, to give it a go, to, to participate in the circuits. But it's also like this iconic duration, right? Like, three-minute pop songs are very popular. And these fluxworks, we call them fluxworks, almost end up being like songs or like little pop songs that you can listen to over and over. And there certainly are some that I kind of sing along with when I hear them. So you can do enough in three minutes to make a really compelling, memorable, profound audio story, but it also is not too daunting if you're trying to do something, you know, in a limited amount of time or for the first time.

• 6:02Roman Mars?

  I mean, I think most podcast ads are longer than three minutes at this point.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  I know. Well, this is our, this is our way of protesting against all of the, you know, the, what's happened to podcasting in a way. I just, I'm a big, I want, I'm a big podcast fan. I make podcasts. I listen to podcasts. But I have, you know, I think we're all a little frustrated with some of the things that have happened in the industry and how the kind of imagination has left the building.

• 6:29Roman Mars?

  So how far along are you with the project?

• 6:31Speaker 01

  So we've had two banner years, I must say. We have run six different circuits, which means we have partnered with six different creative partners, six different sets of rules, six different themes. And the, the life cycle of a circuit is that we commission four pieces from producers who we invite, and then we do an open call. And then anyone can participate in the open call. And then we pick winners and we present the winners and the commission works at a big live event somewhere. It's really important to us to bring the community together to listen to these pieces. And so we have been always debuting them first in a public setting at a conference or a festival. And then we put

• 7:13Speaker 01

  them online and now we have the podcast for them to, to appear in as well.

• 7:18Roman Mars?

  Well, I am very excited to listen to some of these flux works, as you call them. So let's start with one from the first circuit of stories. This one's called The Sound of Silence. Could you tell us about this piece?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  So our partner for the first circuit was the incredible artist and illustrator Wendy McNaughton. And with her, we came up with this theme of letting go. And this was based on a book that she had written and recently published after spending some time with people at the end of their lives. So the book was called How to Say Goodbye. And in talking to Wendy, we thought about a theme that wasn't exactly that, but letting go really touched on the things she was drawing and writing about. And so this was the theme we brought to the producers to work with. And Gregory Warner made this piece called The Sound of Silence, which was about a situation he, his wife found herself in and, you know, touches

• 8:09Speaker 01

  on letting go, but also really dives into a certain time and place and space in their lives.

• 8:15Roman Mars?

  All right. Well, let's hear it.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  So a few years ago, this thing happened to my wife, Sana. She'd be meditating or reading a book and she'd hear a sound.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  A kind of ghostly tone, just above and behind her right ear.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  As though someone were reading over my shoulder with me and delighting in it along with me.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  An odd but delightful thing at a time when delight was in short supply. The pandemic's first spring. Sana's mind on high alert, schools closed, death and doom on the news. One tiny home office for the two of us.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  I was trying to get work done and you were always on the phone in interviews.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  But the tone was-

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Like a place that I could go to. It was like a dome I could enter that was almost insulated by static.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  It let me let go of all this high cortisol shit.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  And the tone could also tune her in to the most everyday moments. Our kid practicing piano.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  Every note was almost like a pebble thrown into a lake in such a way that it created these musical rip-offs.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Wow, you never told me this.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Well, because, you know, it wasn't what I thought it was.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  The tone, not what she thought it was.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Deep inside your inner ear are these special hair cells, cilia, that float in fluid like a field of seaweed. They're tuned to different frequencies. If some of these little hairs are damaged by loud noise or by a virus-

• 9:57Speaker 04

  Now that frequency or that range of frequencies that used to be there is not there anymore.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Dr. Jim Henry is a pioneer of research in tinnitus.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  And the brain is in a steady state most of the time. So now it's got this loss.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  The brain, he says, can respond to this loss of hearing by-

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Overcompensating, by upping its activity.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Filling in the missing frequencies, like a phantom limb. Tinnitus is the sound of the brain's refusal to let go of what it once had.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I got my diagnosis and I cried on my way home. I always had in the back of my mind, like, yeah, you could be reaching enlightenment or you could just be going deaf.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  And I just chose to believe in the former.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  She knows now it's a symptom. But still, these days, when she's reading or concentrating on something beautiful.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  When words turn into images in your mind, the tones come back.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  For her, the tones are still a sign that she's attained some mental quiet. She's paying attention to what is here, even if the sound that she's actually listening to is just the brain's song of grief for what is gone.

• 11:18Roman Mars?

  So that was "The Sound of Silence" by Gregory Warner. It's a beautiful piece. And what I love about it in particular is I know Gregory Warner's work from NPR. He was a longtime foreign journalist, did Rough Translation, the NPR podcast. And this allows you to get a different side of what he can create.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  That is so important to us to give. We want to give brand-new producers an opportunity to do something, but also to give more experienced people the opportunity to do something else than they usually do. And we felt that with Gregory, too. I mean, he is a masterful storyteller at all durations, but we really felt like he could get a little more personal with this and bring his signature NPR style to this little flux work. And it's just so beautiful.

• 12:06Roman Mars?

  Yeah. So let's play another piece. This is from circuit number two, and the theme is "Listening With." Anne, could you describe this theme and how you came to it?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. We were inspired by the film 32 Sounds by the wonderful filmmaker Sam Green. And in that film is a scene with Aneah Lockwood, who's this very accomplished field recordist, sound designer, composer, sound experimentalist. And she has this theory of listening with the world instead of listening to the world or at the world. So we grabbed that theme from Sam's film and invited producers to draw from that theme of listening with as they tell a story, and also to think about everyday sounds in their environments.

• 12:50Roman Mars?

  And so what's this piece that we're going to listen to from this circuit?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Well, this piece is actually, it's called "In Between Silence" by the British producer Talia Augustidis. And as Talia thought about the story she wanted to tell, she was thinking about the sounds around her versus the sounds that other people are hearing and are maybe forced to hear. So at the time, the war in Gaza... It was in full force and she wanted to think about the situation for people living in Gaza and their sonic environments. And so she sort of took on the role of helping people living in that environment talk about what they were hearing on a daily basis.

• 13:32Speaker 05

  But not just that. I mean, we have to understand this country and see a different country.

• 13:38Speaker 06

  We must leave this country and look for another country to live.

• 13:42Speaker 05

  You always remember the situation that you had in London and you told me how you were going to end before the end of the city, Buckingham.

• 13:49Speaker 06

  I always remember how you obtained residency in London, how you used to write outside of Buckingham Palace.

• 13:55Speaker 05

  I mean, I see things like this in Paris. What do you think?

• 13:59Speaker 06

  I'm looking for something similar in Paris. What do you think?

• 14:04Speaker 05

  Gaza is over, my friend. I can't stay there for long, unfortunately.

• 14:08Speaker 06

  Gaza is over, my friend. And unfortunately, we will not be able to even breathe in it. The drones feel so familiar in Gaza that they've earned a nickname: Zanana. It means "an annoying buzzing", a buzzing which has been present for over 20 years, a buzzing which becomes near constant during periods of increased violence, a buzzing which represents surveillance and the looming possibility of a missile strike.

• 14:43Speaker 07

  You try to just get on with things normally. So you try to make food. You try to kind of watch things on TV that will uplift you.

• 14:57Speaker 07

  Certain sounds would penetrate that kind of attempt to create normality. And then over time, you become habituated to the sound. But then the level of anxiety that you're experiencing can then lead to more paranoia about the meaning of the sound.

• 15:14Speaker 07

  Your sort of mind kind of thinks, "Oh, it was slightly different. There was something different about that." But it probably wasn't. It's just an attempt to kind of try to predict the future.

• 15:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:32Speaker 07

  It's an interesting question whether the periods of silence in Gaza between bombings or between drones and rockets and so on was in itself not silence because it's a foreboding.

• 15:51Speaker 06

  There are no sounds of planes. There's a truce.

• 16:00Speaker 06

  But this truce is only temporary, only four days.

• 16:09Speaker 06

  Oh God, I pray that this truce will better our conditions.

• 16:20Speaker 06

  I swear, life is beautiful like this without the sounds of Zenana.

• 16:32Roman Mars?

  So that was "In Between Silence" and you know, when you hear this piece together with or next to Gregory Warner's story, you get these two different meditations on silence. What does Talia's story evoke for you?

• 16:46Speaker 01

  I think one of the miracles of what Audio Flux gets to is that there's so many ways to tell stories. I mean, these were two different circuits with two different starting points, but yet they have in common this idea of silence and some manifestation of silence or lack thereof. And you know, one thing you find and what's really fascinating is how sometimes the Flux works will talk to each other within a circuit or across circuits. And you know, ultimately, you know, we've had 300-plus Flux works made across the six circuits and it's just there's such a boundless possibility for storytelling, even in this short duration. So you take, you know, two producers who have done a lot of other work,

• 17:28Speaker 01

  each approaching this three-minute challenge or exercise. And you know, we learn a lot about Talia through how she tells that story. We learn a lot about Gregory through what he reveals about his wife. But you know, they're very different in form, different in style, but I think memorable, equally memorable, but just for very different reasons.

• 17:49Roman Mars?

  After the break, Julie and I share a few more Audio Flux stories. Stay tuned.

• 18:02Roman Mars?

  Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections on by default. Built-in content settings for the content teens can see, contact limits for who can contact them, and time management tools like daily time limits and sleep mode. Teens are automatically placed into teen accounts, and teens under 16 will need a parent's permission to change any of these settings to be less strict. Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. This episode is presented by Air France. Air France Business Cabin offers comfort from start to finish. Enjoy priority check-in and boarding, followed by access to peaceful lounges.

• 18:47Roman Mars?

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• 19:16Speaker 08

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• 19:45Roman Mars?

  This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. Some design was made to be seen by all, like, for example, the seven wonders of the world. I mean, everyone should see those. While some were made to be less seen, like sewer systems. Like, when was the last time you thought about an aqueduct? Yet that doesn't mean they're any less impressive. You could say the same thing about PNC Bank's smart, calculated approach to banking. It won't make For flashy headlines or trends on social media, but it'll make the right money moves that'll help set you up for the successful financial future you're looking for, a design everyone can get behind. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. PNC Bank, National Association, Member FDIC.

• 20:28Roman Mars?

  And we're back with Julie Shapiro.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  All right, so I have another flux work ready for you. This one is from Circuit Four. The theme was firsts or first times. Our partner was Jason Reynolds, who had written a young adult novel about a very special first time. And so we drew from that topic and invited people to tell us about first things or first times. And this is "The Ghost on Side B" by Caitlin Hale Wood and Alan Giffinski.

• 20:55Roman Mars?

  OK, I have not heard this one. So let's check it out and we'll talk about it on the other side.

• 21:01Speaker 09

  It's on the radio now.

• 21:09Speaker 10

  Okay, hang tight here. It's clock four, three, two, one, you're on.

• 21:17Speaker 11

  It's 2001. I'm 16, maybe 15, and I'm sitting on my bedroom floor in front of my ancient clunky stereo, listening to my CD of the original Broadway cast recording of the 1990s hit musical Rent. I'm always listening to Rent. Broadway stars fill my ears with lyrics of bohemia. I want to get out of the suburbs and make art and be a lesbian and not wear clothes from Kohl's. I decide that I must record this CD to a tape so I can listen to it in my mom's minivan on the way to school

• 22:01Speaker 11

  because we don't have a CD player in the car. So I take a blank tape I find in the living room. I put the cassette in my tape deck. I sync it with the start of the CD and I press record.

• 22:16Speaker 11

  The next morning, I hop in the passenger seat. I put the tape in the cassette player and I'm singing along and it's all bouncy and rent, rent, rent, rent, rent. Then, without warning, the tape skips to the other side, the B-side, and a man's voice comes on.

• 22:35Speaker 10

  Good morning, 609, we're Sid Wood. It's gonna be a lovely day.

• 22:38Speaker 11

  And my mother says, "Where did you get this tape?" And I say, "What? What is this tape? Did you get this tape from the box in the living room? Who is this man on this tape?" And she says, "This tape is not a blank tape. This tape is your father." I'd never heard this voice before, or if I did, I didn't remember. On July 18th, 1987, Sid went to work at the country radio station where he was a DJ and then did not come home. I was two. He was 40. It was a heart attack, but here he was.

• 23:20Speaker 11

  Sid Wood on Country 105 W F M B, like he'd been hiding in the airwaves all along. Hearing my dad for the first time didn't feel like looking at a photograph. It felt like touch. Tiny spools with reels of magnetic tape coiled into a plastic cassette. This was a portal. There you are. Here I am, at a sonic axis of space and time.

• 23:55Speaker 10

  Okay, y'all gonna stick around for a little longer, or what?

• 23:59Speaker 11

  Nice to meet you. Wow, that is so good.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  I often have to breathe a little bit after it ends before I can really talk. Yeah, yeah, this one...

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Well, I'm actually curious, what's your first impression coming out of it?

• 24:20Roman Mars?

  My first thing is that there's so many hours of my recorded voice in the world. And I think about this a lot with my kids and how I don't have a lot of the previous generation, you know, of the sound of their voice or even photographs of them and how much more kids will have and how rare and special this is to have this thing, especially radio recorded onto a tape is really, is really something else. I used to record radio onto tape. And so I just find it all very, very kind of magical. And I don't even know if people will understand with the fact that you have a recording device and a documenting device in your pocket at all times these days, how special it is to have the sound

• 25:02Roman Mars?

  of someone's voice. And then the pure chance of it all and then the near disaster of losing it all too, without knowing. All of it is just like, it's full of emotion for me.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can really appreciate that sort of the wonder of it all, like that actually the stars aligned for her to discover this, for Caitlin. Caitlin Halewood and Alan Giffensky made this piece together. And it's really, it's been a crowd favorite. I mean, we love all of the Flux's works equally, but this one really, people respond to in a certain way. And I think it has to do with some of the things you were talking about, like the power of, of hearing somebody. And so Caitlin had these recordings and I think she found a very poetic way to bring us closer to her and her, and the story of discovering

• 25:54Speaker 01

  her father. And I'm really struck by the different tones and emotions in this piece. It's funny. It's a little mysterious. The sound design by Alan is beautiful. You are, you are immersed in the sound of like cassette. And, you know, it's just, it's so familiar to anyone who ever played cassettes or played with cassettes growing up. And then that line, "A sonic axis of time and place, time and space." I, I love, I love ending in that sort of place of thinking and wondering and speculating. And yeah, this, this piece, I think just- The three minutes are perfect, but I will say there's a bigger story here. And they're actually trying to tell the bigger story.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  So sometimes Fluxwerks can be like testing grounds for bigger ideas that people want to dive into. And they're developing a whole show around Caitlin's sort of search to learn more about her father. So it all starts here, but then, you know, it can and does go on from here.

• 26:52Roman Mars?

  So while we're on this circuit of firsts, let's hear first words. Can you describe this piece?

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and one thing I should say is so many of the Fluxwerks revolve around family relationships. And so this next piece is also has to do with fatherhood and language and hearing voice. But it's a very, very different story, told in a very different way. So we're going to hear First Words by Peter Lang Stanton. And this is basically a kind of time lapse piece about the first two years of his son's life.

• 27:27Speaker 12

  Let's start with the home movies, the ones my dad made with a camcorder on his shoulder and shorts that were dangerously short.

• 27:39Speaker 12

  Here's another home video. I made this one.

• 27:41Speaker 10

  Let's do two breaths.

• 27:45Speaker 10

  One.

• 27:48Speaker 12

  This is the exact moment my son was born.

• 27:58Speaker 12

  These are the first words I said to him.

• 28:01Speaker 10

  Hi, sweetie.

• 28:02Speaker 12

  It's also what I say to dogs. Hi, sweetie. Who's a good girl? Who's a good girl? Anyway.

• 28:09Speaker 12

  And this is the first time my son ever used his voice.

• 28:21Speaker 12

  But I really had no idea just how long it takes to talk.

• 28:25Speaker 10

  I'm gonna make some sounds. Can I hear you talk?

• 28:34Speaker 10

  Alvin, do you have anything to say this morning?

• 28:39Speaker 12

  For the longest time, we say nothing at all.

• 28:44Speaker 12

  We have to find work around, other ways to communicate.

• 28:52Speaker 12

  The talking part takes forever. Alvin, what's my name?

• 29:01Speaker 12

  Imagine a new roommate, but you can't talk to each other for the first two years.

• 29:05Roman Mars?

  Let's wash your feet.

• 29:08Roman Mars?

  Feet. Where are your toes?

• 29:10Speaker 12

  The wait is so long.

• 29:12Roman Mars?

  Right there.

• 29:12Speaker 12

  You worry he'll never be able to talk at all.

• 29:16Roman Mars?

  But.

• 29:19Speaker 12

  But then.

• 29:23Roman Mars?

  If our truck said beep beep.

• 29:26Roman Mars?

  It went right by our house and it said beep beep.

• 29:30Speaker 10

  A B C D E F G.

• 29:33Roman Mars?

  Hey, Alvin, can you say cracker?

• 29:35Speaker 10

  Cracker.

• 29:36Roman Mars?

  Mm-hmm. Can you say it again?

• 29:38Speaker 10

  Sorry.

• 29:39Roman Mars?

  Alvin, can you say lawnmower?

• 29:41Speaker 10

  Lawnmower.

• 29:42Roman Mars?

  Wow. Can you say cracker again?

• 29:45Speaker 10

  No.

• 29:47Speaker 12

  Then, all of a sudden.

• 29:48Roman Mars?

  You say cracker?

• 29:49Speaker 10

  Cracker.

• 29:50Speaker 12

  It happens quickly.

• 29:51Speaker 10

  I have cracker, please. Old MacDonald had a rash.

• 29:55Roman Mars?

  Old MacDonald had a rash?

• 29:57Speaker 10

  It was bigger and bigger and...

• 29:59Speaker 12

  It happens so fast, it breaks your heart.

• 30:01Speaker 10

  Bigger and bigger. And then they told mom and daddy.

• 30:07Speaker 12

  And you realize because of your impatience, you were missing what was right in front of you.

• 30:11Roman Mars?

  What's my name?

• 30:20Speaker 10

  Daddy. Daddy. I have cracker, please.

• 30:26Roman Mars?

  Sure, honey.

• 30:29Roman Mars?

  So this one, like, you know, any parent who hears this just kind of loses it.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, relatable. I mean, yeah, it's very relatable for anyone who's who's lived with kids learning language.

• 30:44Roman Mars?

  Yeah. You just miss those sounds. There's a lot of stuff that's documented. There's so many pictures. But I really do miss the, you know, the personalities. The, you know, that, you know, there's still something there in, you know, my 19-year-olds. But like, you know, expressed through that, the squeeze box of that tiny little voice, you know what I mean? It's like, it's just something I actually, I miss a lot.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  And hearing the development, you know, it doesn't seem, it's like sort of when you're in the moment, you don't notice it. But when you hear the syllables become words, become emotional, you know, utterances, it's, it's, it's so powerful and remarkable. And it seems, you know, incredible that we learn language at all. But, but yeah, we do.

• 31:29Roman Mars?

  Okay, so there's one more Flux Works that we want to share here. And this one is from your latest circuit, Circuit Number Six. What was the theme for this one?

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Okay, we just finished Circuit Six. The theme was creative tension. And our partner in this theme and circuit was Lorna Hamilton-Brown, who has become known as the Banksy of knitting in the fabric art circles.

• 31:52Roman Mars?

  Fantastic.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  So, I know, I know. Well, quite an honor, and she has definitely earned it. Lorna explores all kinds of social justice issues through her art. And her art is mostly knitting, crocheting, working with fabrics. She's also a teacher and an activist and an educator. But we were really lucky to meet her and work with her for this circuit. And so the theme was creative tension. And we asked people to include the sound, like a repetitive sound, in their Flux work. It is a nod to kind of the repetitive motion of knitting and handiwork. And then we also, I thought this was really fun. Another prompt was to give your story a color, which is like really nonsense also, but was very fun to say,

• 32:38Speaker 01

  like, what color does your story sound like at the end of it? So that was also a nod to kind of the yarn and different colors of yarn and a sort of synesthetic sense that Lorna has when she hears music and thinks of patterns. So those were the prompts in the theme. And the piece we're going to hear is called Red Card, and the color is red. It's by a couple of producers, Vivian Schutz and Laura Rojas Aponte. And the thing that is really notable to me about this one is, as much as Flux Works can be personal and artistic and talk about big, abstract ideas, they can also very clearly document the world around us

• 33:22Speaker 01

  and things happening now. And they really pulled that off with this piece.

• 33:26Roman Mars?

  All right, let's hear it. It's called Red Card.

• 33:31Speaker 13

  The cards, the ones that we make, are about the size of a business card.

• 33:35Speaker 09

  About two inches by three inches.

• 33:37Speaker 13

  Sort of a heavy piece of red paper. And since January, we've made 110,000 of them.

• 33:45Speaker 09

  I tend to carry a stack of cards with me, usually in Spanish, because that's a second language for me. I will hand them to people and say, in Spanish, "Aquí hay información sobre sus tarjetas constitucionales. This is about your constitutional rights. There's information on what to do with immigration, with the police, with whomever."

• 34:07Speaker 14

  He gave us cards, week by week, that we put on display at the market. Most of the people that would come by, take them, especially the Hispanic community, and others would actually take it to give to others that they knew. It says, "I do not wish to speak with you."

• 34:22Speaker 15

  Answer your questions or sign.

• 34:24Speaker 14

  Hand you any documents based on my...

• 34:26Speaker 15

  Fifth Amendment rights.

• 34:28Speaker 14

  You now have that card on you. No, abre la puerta. Know what by law will protect you.

• 34:35Speaker 15

  I do not give you permission. I do not give you permission to enter my home. To enter my home.

• 34:40Speaker 14

  You come to this country for a better life. Once you are able to apply and to the legal status, you then do it. Applying is a very costly process, but my folks, they had applied. If it wasn't for us doing that, we wouldn't be able to be selling flowers in New York City seven days out of the week and put 26 people on payroll because of two people going across the border for their family.

• 35:13Speaker 13

  The cards themselves, they're premised on the fact that somebody will read them and obey the law. And at some point, that is not going to be true.

• 35:24Speaker 16

  You have a red card, that it's a piece of cardboard, and the other person has a rifle and handcuffs.

• 35:32Speaker 16

  We know of many neighbors who, because of all of these efforts, they didn't open the door, and they don't open the door still. And that is one of the reasons why I started to arrest people in the courtrooms. As an academic, as an activist, as a scholar, I think that the red card is a beautiful symbol. But at the same time, to me, it is also kind of an index of how tiny, how little, how fragile our rights are. It's like such a little thing, and that the most fundamental rights can be written in a little card like that. It's kind of telling, right?

• 36:11Speaker 09

  As a printmaker, what I can do is print something for you. And within my own art, I can tackle issues, I can do these things. But when those things are not effective, I don't know what to do.

• 36:31Roman Mars?

  I mean, this one is the kind of the most 99PI story. Like, it tells a full story of the world that we're in through a small object. I love stories like that.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, just a couple of those lines that really bring home the situation from that we're reading a lot about in the news, but that just that personal window into actual people's experience of the car, having the cards and dispersing them. And we also thought the theme, creative tension, for me was also a moment of reflection as artists and creative people. Like, what do we do in this moment where things around us seem chaotic? And what is an artist's role in this moment? So there's sort of this meta notion of creative tension, which the printmaker elaborates or is very eloquent about talking about, what can he do in this moment? So this piece speaks to all of the themes wrapped up in the overarching theme of creative tension.

• 37:24Roman Mars?

  When I first heard it, I didn't know the Audio Flux prompt. And I was so struck by the rhythm of the incantation of rites. It's really amazing because it's like, in speaking them, like, it's what sort of gives them their power and like rites not used, are rites lost? And speaking them like keeps them in use. And I just think it's amazing to hear.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and speaking them, the people that they are for and are about, speaking them. So this is a document that is about community and about all the people. And then you're actually hearing it read by some of these people. So satisfying and it's so powerful.

• 38:02Roman Mars?

  So, I mean, I hope that we've just blown people's minds in the best way possible because like I have noticed it too, like in listening to podcasts. I love podcasts. I listen to chatty podcasts. I listen to three hour long podcasts. I've made and contributed to that particular art form. But it was just so nice to remember this period of time in which this kind of creative radio was just part of my life every single day. And so I really, really appreciate this project and what you're doing with it. It just, it pleases me to no end.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. And I have to say, like, there's a lot out there besides Audio Flux. And that's what's very exciting about this moment is there are other independent, small projects, there's Signal Hill, there's Small Audio Art, there's In the Dark. There are a lot of people out there who value hearing these and making this kind of work. So we feel like we're part of a bit of a renaissance of, you know, audio for the sake of audio and community and culture alongside the podcast industry.

• 39:07Roman Mars?

  So for people who want to get involved with Audio Flux, where can they find out more?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Our website is the best place to sign up for our email list. We run two circuits a year and every single person listening to this is very welcome to give it a go and submit to the next circuit, which should be launching at the end of February.

• 39:25Roman Mars?

  And you do, but you do also have a podcast. So could you describe your podcast?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, we have a podcast too.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  It's not exactly an afterthought, but it is, you know, one of the many parts of the project. So yes, yes, we launched our podcast, the AudioFlex podcast, in the fall of last year. It's hosted by the marvelous Amy Pearl, and we are walking the walk. These episodes are maybe 10 minutes, 20 at the most, but really, we're keeping things short and just inviting people to just revel in what audio can do and celebrate these incredible creators that are, you know, experimenting and sending in their pieces. And yeah, we're having a lot of fun with the podcast, and I hope everyone goes and subscribes to it.

• 40:09Roman Mars?

  Julie Shapiro, thank you so much for talking with me, and thank you so much for AudioFlex. I really appreciate it.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks, Roman. And, you know, you are also welcome to make a Fluxwork anytime you would like to.

• 40:19Roman Mars?

  I was so inspired listening to them that I really think that this is my, this is my year to get my AudioFlex out there, so.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm holding you to that. You've basically signed on the dotted line.

• 40:29Roman Mars?

  If you love these documentary shorts and want to hear really short versions of 99% Invisible, the first 25 episodes of this show were all about five minutes or less. You can find those by scrolling way back in our feed or on our website, 99pi.org. 99% Invisible was produced this week by Jason DeLeone, mixed by Martine Gonzalez, music by Swan Real. Kathy Tu is our executive producer, Kirk Kohlstedt is the digital director, Delaney Hall is our senior editor. The rest of the team includes Chris Berube, Emmett Fitzgerald, Christopher Johnson, Vivian Le, LaShamadon, Joe Rosenberg, Kelly Prime, Jacob Medina-Gleason,

• 41:08Roman Mars?

  Talon and Rain Stradly, and me, Roman Mars. The 99% Invisible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence. We are part of the SiriusXM Podcast family, now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora Building in beautiful Uptown Oakland, California. You can find us on all the usual social media sites, as well as our own Discord server, there's a link to that, as well as every past episode of 99pi at 99pi.org.

• 41:43Speaker 17

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• 42:08Speaker 18

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