We Can Now Drive Aging Forward and Backward at Will — Here's What That Means | Impact Theory W. Tom Bilyeu Dr. David Sinclair

Welcome back to Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu. In this electrifying continuation, Tom Bilyeu dives deep with world-renowned aging researcher Dr Sinclair to explore the cutting edge of anti-aging science and regenerative medicine. Prepare for a mind-bending journey through lab-grown “mini brains,” the ethics of creating organs from scratch, and the real-world implications of reversing aging—in everything from skin and hair to the human brain and spinal cord. You’ll hear insights on the latest advances in using AI to develop longevity drugs, the surprising possibilities for reversing age-related infertility, and how upcoming clinical trials may soon change the way we think about disease, aging, and human potential. Plus, Dr Sinclair shares his personal health protocol and practical strategies for extending your lifespan today, all while tackling big questions about the future—from living to 1000 years, to the cautionary tales and optimism inherent in this rapidly evolving field. Get ready for a conversation that bridges science fiction and reality as Tom Bilyeu and Dr Sinclair unpack what it means to truly disrupt aging. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show: https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call: https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Blinkist: Start your free trial at https://blinkist.com/impactQuince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpodIncogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impactAT&T Business: Switch to AT&T Business at business.att.com http://business.att.comNetsuite: Right now, get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at https://NetSuite.com/Theory https://netsuite.com/TheoryKetone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription orderSumm: code TOMVIP20 for 20% off your first year at https://summ.com?via=tombilyeu&coupon=TOMVIP20 https://summ.com?via=tombilyeu&coupon=TOMVIP20Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactCozy Earth: code IMPACT for 20% off https://cozyearth.comQuo: Try for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/impact micro brains, stem cells, brain organoids, blood vessel cells, pituitary gland, calcium imaging, ethical questions in science, aging models, AI in biology, gene therapy, chemical cocktails, clinical trials, phase one trials, sirtuin activators, NAD IV, fertility reversal, uterus regeneration, brain health supplements, ketones, intermittent fasting, DNA methylation, gene expression, Alzheimer's disease, amyloid plaques, optic nerve regeneration, glaucoma treatment, skincare de-aging, hair regrowth, statins, metformin, anti-cancer nutrition Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Welcome back to part two of this incredible conversation. Without further ado, here we go.

• 1:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so you guys are able to replicate micro brains. How do you make them small?

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Well, we grow them from single cells. We turn them into stem cells.

• 1:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Would they just keep growing and growing and growing and growing if you fed them?

• 1:30Speaker 01

  They reach a certain size where they don't keep growing because they don't have blood vessels.

• 1:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Do they have a pituitary gland? They don't have blood vessels.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  I don't know if they have a pituitary.

• 1:38Tom Bilyeu?

  How do they stay alive?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  We shake them in liquid and the oxygen diffuses through. But if they get too big, the core becomes hypoxic and doesn't grow well. But what we need to do is to mix them with blood vessel cells, which people are working on. And then we could grow them really big.

• 1:56Tom Bilyeu?

  This is so interesting. Oh my god.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  And then it's ethical questions about if you can grow a brain from scratch, should you teach it something? Should you give it something to think about?

• 2:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Anyway, it's a good model for aging.

• 2:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, so wait, there are, it's my understanding, AI that right now can do like these really rough, like this person is thinking about this and it like shows you like a horse and you're like, it's kind of a horse. It's just like sort of blobby shapes. We need to apply immediately this AI to these brains. I need to know if these things are like screaming out, I'm bored, bro. Like, come on, give me something to do. This is wild. Okay.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  And, and here's the other thing is, we see them get old, they lose their firing and we can look at them in real time. They're actually, you see these sparks, like looking at fireworks. When they get older, there's fewer, fewer sparks.

• 2:49Tom Bilyeu?

  How are you monitoring the brains?

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Well, you put them under the microscope and we can see calcium changes. When calcium gets

• 2:59Tom Bilyeu?

  These are the fireworks?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  The nerve cells, when they get calcium, they

• 3:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Under the microscope, are they now dying at this point?

• 3:07Speaker 01

  No, they're living. We can put them back.

• 3:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow, okay.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  So we see the calcium changes and wherever calcium comes in, which is what's happening in our brains right now, with the firing, it lights up with a dye. Not naturally, we have to give them a dye that lights up, but you can see that. And so you see with the old brains that are a year old, that's old for, for a brain organoid. If we give them our genes or our chemical cocktail, our three chemical cocktail, the firing comes on again.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  And we did that to a mouse, as I mentioned, and the mouse's brain worked.

• 3:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, unlike the human brain now.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Well, we, we hope

• 3:43Tom Bilyeu?

  How close to like

• 3:45Speaker 01

  We hope to be testing this in humans for the brain as well.

• 3:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Adult humans, you're saying?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Adult humans, yeah.

• 3:50Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't know that I want to leave the baby brains yet, but okay, so adult humans, what condition would they have to have to subject themselves to this? Cause this sounds experimental.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Well, the three chemicals are, we're getting permission to give them to people in a clinical trial to see what would happen.

• 4:06Tom Bilyeu?

  But people just like, hey, I'm Bob, I'm doing fine, but hit me with the three chemicals. Let me see what happens?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:13Tom Bilyeu?

  People do that.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 4:15Tom Bilyeu?

  This is amazing.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  It's called a phase one clinical trial.

• 4:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow, yes. Okay. Hey, cool.

• 4:22Tom Bilyeu?

  That's amazing. And all right. So people are gonna volunteer to have these are, how are you getting the chemicals into their brain?

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Oh, you swallow it.

• 4:30Tom Bilyeu?

  You can take it in a pill.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  That's the goal.

• 4:32Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild. How does this survive metabolism?

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Well, it's at least two of these molecules have been taken by humans already. So we know maybe all three actually by now. We know that they're metabolized.

• 4:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Huh.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  But we need AI to make, improve that three chemical cocktail.

• 4:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  So that I don't think that's the ultimate drug that I'm gonna put on the market.

• 4:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh huh.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  I think though, if I mentioned those three molecules, you could bet that people be out buying this stuff already.

• 5:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. Didn't you say them at the top?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  No, I said the genes. Those are OSK genes.

• 5:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Very careful. Smart.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  I have to be. I mean, hopefully people won't go and inject them with some solvent.

• 5:09Tom Bilyeu?

  It will apparently. They'll even just sign up for a clinical trial because why not?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Okay, I do know some people have injected themselves with OSK already, which is.

• 5:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, okay. So people are injecting themselves with this stuff. Fascinating because because they think this de-aging thing will work?

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. Even though you're saying it's there's more to it than just that.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Well, just to be clear, these are, these are not FDA sanctioned clinical trials.

• 5:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  There is, there's a fringe.

• 5:38Tom Bilyeu?

  I think people should be able to do their own body what they want. Do your thing.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  So then it's a few people in the world that are willing to try anything not to age. But getting back to really mainstream science and drug development.

• 5:49Tom Bilyeu?

  But I was having so much fun with the baby brains and.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  We can go anywhere you want, Tom. It's your show.

• 5:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  The, I do want to say though, that we, we, I'll just tick off

• 5:59Speaker 01

  the diseases that have worked well.

• 6:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, please.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  No, I already did that.

• 6:04Tom Bilyeu?

  You're talking about in the baby brain though? Or I thought those were like thin sheets.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know what I wanted to tell you, that we don't just grow brains.

• 6:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  We grow other things.

• 6:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Such as?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Well, we're growing a uterus.

• 6:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Why not? Are we impregnating said uterus?

• 6:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Why a uterus? Why are we building a uterus? Oh. To see if you can reverse fertility problems?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's go.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Well, we. Just in all public disclosure, I have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. So I'm a male.

• 6:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  So we males are fairly dominant when it comes to female health.

• 6:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  And my partner Serena is much more expert in female fertility. That said, I'm a scientist and so I want to be able to help women have children for longer. And even have children after they've gone through menopause.

• 6:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's go.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  And so we've, we've already shown a number of years back that using a sirtuin, remember the sirtuins?

• 7:01Tom Bilyeu?

  I do.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Sirtuin activating molecule that we could reverse infertility in old, very old mice, female mice. And they could produce fresh eggs and have children. That we published, that's real. But we, I want something more potent than that. That will truly reverse the age of all parts of the female reproductive system. Including the uterus. And I have a student, Maria is working on that. That's her project.

• 7:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Damn.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  So.

• 7:28Tom Bilyeu?

  This is wild. Okay.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  So we grow you.

• 7:31Tom Bilyeu?

  So give me, give me just a quick timeline for, this stuff has to work its way through the, yeah. Like, when are we talking about a 65 year old woman de-aging her uterus and having babies?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Well, you, you don't actually fully have to de-age a uterus. You can have a surrogate. So I, I could hear people screaming at us that we don't need to fix uterus. What we need is healthy eggs and a healthy sperm.

• 7:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Wait, I'm not, I'm not tracking the caveat. So you just said you want to help de-age the uterus.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Well, I do because that's.

• 8:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Now we're trying to soften it for the screaming people, the chattering masses in the comment section. But talk to me about when, so got it. There are other things that people can do right now, today. Yay. But I'm saying, when are we going to de-age a woman who's 65? She's been through menopause for a decade. When are we going to get her producing eggs again and a womb that can like house a healthy baby to term?

• 8:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Ballpark me.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  The uterus is early stages. We're still growing those in the lab and looking at menstrual fluid and that kind of stuff.

• 8:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Wild. Is this a full size uterus? This isn't, this isn't flat cells. This is like, I would actually recognize the uterus.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, we grow it from scratch and it's three dimensional and it's in the dish. Yes. And then we're going to age them and hopefully de-age them, obviously. But so what, but what I can predict with more certainty, because I can see where we're going with more clarity, that this discovery that we made in the mice is now being tested by others in humans already. So the sirtuen activator, the sirtuen activator.

• 9:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Um, it was, I think about eight years ago, we published that raising the levels of a sirtuen activator called NAD, that chemical, which we make less of as we get older. By raising that, the eggs became produced and fresh again.

• 9:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Just from NAD?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  In a month, from raising NAD. And just last week, I saw a study testing women who were

• 9:40Speaker 01

  not very fertile, uh, receiving for 10 weeks, an IV each week of NAD. And if there's no placebo.

• 9:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Egg count.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Of egg count, egg quality, embryo quality. Very rigorous, actually. And although it's the first of hopefully many studies, it was extremely promising. There was a dramatic difference, two, three fold difference between those that got the NAD IV and those that didn't.

• 10:06Tom Bilyeu?

  I have a feeling you want me to let go on the timeline, but I'm not going to. So ballpark me knowing, certainly I know that whatever you say isn't going to be accurate. It'll just be directional. But if you had to swag me.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  If that was, if that study is true.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Again, be cautious. It's one study.

• 10:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  But let's say it's true. Then I think it's likely that NADIVs are going to help women who want to get pregnant.

• 10:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but timeline. We're rejuvenating uteri here.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Well, the uterus is different. Uterus is more challenging, but the egg story.

• 10:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Ten years, twenty years, thirty years?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Already.

• 10:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so NAD for somebody that's sort of on the cusp. Uh, but I want to know when we're.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  When's the uterus?

• 10:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I'm talking, I'm giving you the very specific setup.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Tom, it sounds like, it sounds like you really need a fresh uterus.

• 10:52Tom Bilyeu?

  No, but this is so interesting.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:54Tom Bilyeu?

  That the, so never did I think that already on the sort of pipeline of things to be tried, would we be growing brains, actual mini brains in a lab, actual uterus in a lab. Like, this is thrilling, exciting, shocking, but I just, this was not on my bingo card. So, uh, now I want to know, because it's clearly closer than I thought.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, given that we have to get through all the FDA and all that, like, are we talking thirty years? Are we talking fifteen years? Like, what are we talking about?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  All right, well, there's, there's actually, there's two options. One is the FDA route, which is novel molecule, AI gives it to us. We take that, I've got a company, Life Biosciences, that's ready to go. And they're all set to go. So that usually takes five years to get through the FDA with a small molecule that's been shown to work in animals.

• 11:47Tom Bilyeu?

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• 12:29Tom Bilyeu?

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• 14:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action. But do we have 20 years of discovery still on the de-aging of the uterus? Or are we already pretty deep in that process?

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Well, we're going parallel. We're going AI to find the molecule.

• 14:28Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  And I said, we've already done a lot of that. And then we're building the uteri in the dish right now. And we'll just put those two together when they're ready.

• 14:36Tom Bilyeu?

  This is so wild.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  And then if that works and the mice work, then we can apply it to test this in humans with, you know, adequate safety studies.

• 14:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  In animals. The safety studies take a couple of years.

• 14:51Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild. All right. I want to go back to the brain. The brain is my thing. If ever there was something I wanted, a fresh new one, it would be to keep my brain healthy forever. So there are things that people do now. So you've got stuff like ketones. I will take ketone supplements. I will take caffeine, obviously nicotine. So I do things to sharpen my brain now. How does that stuff compare to what you're talking about?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Well, right now, I think stuff like ketones are excellent for the brain. Yeah.

• 15:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Similar mechanism or totally unrelated?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  We don't know. It's possible that they're related because

• 15:35Speaker 01

  beta-hydroxybutyrate can actually not just affect energy in the brain. And that's why I drink, actually, there's a group that I'm collaborating with scientifically as well that are doing good studies at Ketone IQ. The science looks really good. The brain is what I use it for. I chug it before I do recording of the podcast that I'm relaunching, season two coming up. But yeah, I find that when I'm stressed and I'm having to basically take 15 pages and remember it in a few minutes, then I need that extra fuel. And we know that ketones are very good for the brain. But you're asking me, is it related to my work? What's interesting is that these ketones, and one is one that's related to Cito-related molecules.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  They're kind of related to vinegar. These molecules actually go in and they change the structure of how the DNA is packaged to help with the methyls.

• 16:31Tom Bilyeu?

  It's so acute, though. It's not like I can take one shot of ketones and my brain is better for a month. It's very, at least for me, very short acting.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's, that's, yeah, so that's probably two things happening. The first is the ketones are good fuel for your brain. So what we know is when we've fasted for, let's say about over 15 hours, ketone levels will go up because we run out of glycogen from the liver. And then the clarity, mental clarity, you might be a little angry because you're hungry, but the clarity is there. We all, we've probably all done this. If we, if we study and we're not eating a lot, we can focus.

• 17:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  I know I need that because I get distracted by every little bug around me. But the, the, so the focus is there and the ketones really help with the focus. And I can mimic fasting and I can even enhance my fasting. I try to do intermittent fasting as best I can. And some of these ketones, if you take it with fasting, can actually improve your ketosis.

• 17:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Those sound like separate mechanisms to me. One feels very acute and is a, hey, there's this molecule that you put into your brain, I'm fumbling for the mechanism here, and it's essentially like giving it food to run its processes faster. The other is reaching into this black box and finding these magical, the observer, and getting that to work. It's magic.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Let's, let's just take a, take a pause on, you are what you eat. And it's not just energy. It actually does modify the DNA and the structures that package the DNA. So let's just get back.

• 18:09Tom Bilyeu?

  The ketone or?

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Well, the ketones, like beta hydroxybutyrate, these molecules actually get attached. So let me briefly explain to you, how is DNA packaged in the cell? Because that determines whether a gene is on or off.

• 18:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  We talked about these methyls. When it's methyl, it's blocked. But it's not just a string with chemicals on it. It's actually wrapped up tightly in proteins that are like balls, tennis balls. And the tennis balls come together. So now you've got this big structure. If you look at them, it's called a chromosome. So these balls, they aren't just tennis balls. They actually have flags on them. Imagine a tennis ball with little flags that say, read me or ignore me.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Some of these flags are methyls as well on the DNA and on the balls, the protein balls called histones. But there are other things. There's a whole semaphore of flags that tells the cell what to do at that point in the genome. And two of those chemicals, one is butyrate that gets attached to the ball. The other is acetate attached to the ball on amino acids, lysines usually. And these histones have tails. So it's a tennis ball with a tail, protein amino acid tail. And it's that tail that accepts these little flags. So when we know this for a fact that if you drink acetate or butyrate or molecules, like we're talking about these ketones, you can change the pattern on these little flags

• 19:36Speaker 01

  in ways that are healthy. So that's another reason why fasting may give you a buzz or focus for a while, but long term, if you do it for months, you will actually change your gene expression and slow down, I believe, slow down the rate of aging as well.

• 19:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. Preserve the information. So we have reason to believe that's true through fasting. Can you supplement your way there?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  We don't know, but there's no reason to believe that that wouldn't work because what we're drinking in these bottles, like the one three butin dial is that is naturally there in our body. Anyway, we're just giving the body more of it. These are breakdown products of fat, right? So after 15 hours of fasting, we get these fatty acids out of our fat. That's how the body uses fat, turns them into these ketones that give fuel, but also change the regulation of genes, some temporarily, some long term.

• 20:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, uh, so that's the exogenous stuff that may or may not have long term sort of stacking effects. But what you guys are doing now on the brain, the brain is insanely complicated. I've always assumed that part of the problem with Alzheimer's, not that the amyloid plaque is the cause, but that you would have built up so much plaque. I don't see how you start unwinding that if you're not clearing the plaque out. Do you think the plaque is? The brain knows how to get around it, or uh, does it get cleared in some way? Like, how would this look?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  That's a really great question and one that we are addressing. The reason I don't know the answer yet, and I can tell you what I think is going on based on other experiments in different tissues, which do clear out proteins like beta amyloid. But we don't know in the eye, sorry, in the brain for sure. And the reason we don't know is we don't get a lot of plaque in the mouse model. We get all these other problems. There's a protein called tau, phosphotau, we do see that. And we turn that on in the brain. But we don't know for sure yet if the plaque goes away, or if the brain just can handle it better.

• 21:49Tom Bilyeu?

  What about all of our little mini brains? We haven't run this yet.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  The mini brains are not getting plaque. They just get dysfunctional with the APOE4 gene.

• 21:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Because you're um, like racing forward, they're aging so much?

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Well, it's partly that, but also the APOE4 is producing this APOE protein, which can cause problems inside the cell. You don't need to have these collections, these crystal, crystals outside the cell to be defective.

• 22:17Tom Bilyeu?

  But doesn't that tell you that there's something different going on? So if Alzheimer's were just pure aging, and part of the, the phenotypical expression, which fancy word for what does it look and act like? If the expression of aging is the some damage occurs that causes the buildup of amyloid plaque. If you arti- artificially, I'll put that in air quotes, but if you artificially age it, and it does not build up amyloid plaques, and we know there's some different mechanism happening.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  For sure. Not everybody gets Alzheimer's, but we all get old.

• 22:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  So the Alzheimer's is accelerating the aging of the cell and causing it to be dysfunctional. But what we know is that we don't need to be clearing any plaque for the animals to get better memory. And it may not be necessary in humans as well.

• 23:08Tom Bilyeu?

  But what, sorry, just to really beat this to death, and maybe this is what you were just about to say. But um, how do you interpret the, I get two different results? When I age up my mini brain, it does not build up plaque.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Human life seems to build up plaque.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  You might be right that the mini brains don't age eighty years, which is what humans do. Maybe we're only aging them to forty.

• 23:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  And we don't get there. It's not a perfect.

• 23:33Tom Bilyeu?

  You see the direction to travel, but.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, every model in the lab has its caveats. Uh, you gotta take what you can get. And right now, the state of the art is mini brains getting old, but not getting plaque. But we do put those genes in there and they do get dysfunctional quicker.

• 23:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Um, I think it's it's an interesting to point out that the the age reversal may clear out the plaque. And the reason that I I'm optimistic that it would in humans is because we've done this in other tissues. The eye, for instance, builds up proteins, lipofuscin, uh, causes macular degeneration. And to my surprise, when we reversed the age of the retina in a mouse that had those protein inclusions, they went away and the retina regrew and became flat and nice and functional again. So there what we're finding is it's not just reversing aging, it's actually rebuilding the body to be young again. And the the best test of that was we actually pinched optic nerves and destroyed them.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  That's one way to test this. And what we found was the optic nerve regrew back to the brain. So even something as bad as crushing nerves causes them to regrow like they were embryos again.

• 24:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa, hold on for uh, my whole life I believed that nerves don't regrow.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  They don't.

• 24:52Tom Bilyeu?

  So this really is like, if this ends up being predictably um, repeatable, this would be huge.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Well, that's why in part it got the cover of nature, which was, oh, my God, we're able to regrow nerves again. And it's huge, not just for the eye, of course, anyone who's broken or or could.

• 25:10Tom Bilyeu?

  What about like spinal injuries? Yeah.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  That's right. That's that's low hanging fruit as well.

• 25:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Huh. Are there people right now? Because let me tell you, if I was a quadriplegic, I'd be like, yes, I'm first in your trial. Inject the life out of me. Give me whatever you need to give me. Um, do we have people lining up for that one? And is there a reason that we're not already doing that?

• 25:30Speaker 01

  It's regulation that's stopping us from doing it because we need to make sure it's safe.

• 25:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Are you by any chance connected? You must be. You know so many of those same people. Are you connected to Elon Musk?

• 25:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:41Tom Bilyeu?

  I'll be, I, I don't know him at all, but I know Peter Diamandis knows him well. I know you know Peter well.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Just because obviously what they're doing, we're trying to sort of bypass all that stuff and maybe they wouldn't care. Maybe it's even contrary to their business model, but um, eh, being able to fix somebody who broke their back would be obviously massive.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's not technology that's holding us. It's safety and rigor and regulations.

• 26:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  I think we're, we're there. It probably would work because the eye is no different than.

• 26:12Tom Bilyeu?

  How profoundly is the nerve regrowing?

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Well, you're right. Nerves don't regrow and there have been some small advances over the years. Other labs have regrown nerves, maybe five percent. We got a hundred percent.

• 26:29Tom Bilyeu?

  What the fuck, man? This is one of those, uh, there's, um, there's always such a big gap between what works in the lab and what works in real life. So I'm aware of that, but this is, this is very interesting. If you're able to, so my wife's grandmother, um, I think she actually died from cancer, but she had Alzheimer's for the last, God knows how many years of her life. Absolutely tragic. My great fear is losing my brain.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, the thought of being paralyzed has always been so hopeless my entire life. The thought that you can regrow nerves is absolutely wild.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for a disease like ALS where the nerves that are holding on to your muscle are retreating, degrading, regressing. We're finding that we can regrow those. One of the reasons people have falls and can't control themselves physically when they're older and maintain balance. Is that problem? The nerve muscle junction, get retraction, these nerves go away. We've got images in my lab when we treat with our chemical cocktail, those nerves then regrow for the first time ever in biology to go back to where they came from.

• 27:38Tom Bilyeu?

  What's going to stop this from being real? Like this, when something seems to be too good to be true, it is too good. So what's the, what's the catch in all this?

• 27:47Speaker 01

  There, there are, making a drug, period, whether it reverses aging or not, is, is hugely challenging. From bench to bedside, as they say, there are.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Biological issues, so you might be wrong about the theory. Don't think that's the case. It may not be relevant to humans. It could just be in rodents or mice. Don't think that's true because it's working in monkeys already. There could be safety issues, right? But we've ticked all those off so far. So what's left? Well, there's funding. You need hundreds of millions of dollars. So I spend a fair amount of my time traveling with Serena around the world to raise money to do these trials. And thank you to all the investors that have come in to help us with that. And that's the company's called Life Biosciences, which I'm chairman of the board of. That company has a great team.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  You've got to have a great team because you can mess up a clinical trial and not get great results. And you've got to do it the right way with the right controls. And then, I don't know, I think that's, that's pretty much it. And then it does, it works or it doesn't. And if you're wondering, what's the chance now? I've, I've pegged it at, at least 80% given that it's worked well in the monkeys multiple times.

• 29:03Tom Bilyeu?

  In that you're clamping down on the nerve, effectively killing it and then regrowing it? What nerve are you clamping down on?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Uh, the entire optic nerve.

• 29:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so you make them blind and then unblind them?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, then they can see again.

• 29:16Tom Bilyeu?

  That is wild. Uh, okay, so.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  By the way, that, that's, that's required by law. It's not something I want to do.

• 29:25Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you mean?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Well, the, the government makes us drug developers do these safety studies in animals before we can touch a human.

• 29:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Meaning they force you to blind and unblind the monkey? Yeah.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  I wouldn't want to do that, but that's what we've done. And fortunately it worked, cured them, they're all good. And.

• 29:44Tom Bilyeu?

  That is wild.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, and so are you just clamping the nerve and the pressure is what makes them blind? And just unclamping it by any chance?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  No, it's done differently than a clamp because it's harder to do with a clamp. Uh, it was done with a bright light.

• 30:03Tom Bilyeu?

  So you burn the nerve essentially?

• 30:08Speaker 01

  I don't know if you call it that.

• 30:09Tom Bilyeu?

  You don't like my word choices?

• 30:10Speaker 01

  It's not really burning, but it is bright enough.

• 30:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Permanently damaged?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  They're not gonna see again unless we treat them.

• 30:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. Are you doing it just by shining a light into their eye?

• 30:18Speaker 01

  It's a laser.

• 30:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. Okay. Uh, okay. So we are overloading frying whatever word feels accurate. The optic nerve, and then you're able to regrow it. That is crazy. Okay, so.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Oh, let me say in humans, we're not treating laser-induced blindness. We're treating glaucoma, which is the leading cause of blindness in the world.

• 30:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Is that nerve-related?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  People think it's the pressure, but it's, it's actually the pressure that's just disrupting the function of the nerves at the back of the eye, which we can.

• 30:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Don't you have to alleviate the pressure first? Or do you just have to keep doing this? Like, the pressure takes time to crush the nerve again and?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Well, the pressure may come back, but there are good drugs already to lower pressure. But even if you lower the pressure, the nerves are still not gonna work.

• 31:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Wild, wild. Why? Do you have a guess as to why nerves don't regrow? I've never understood that. Like, so many other things in the body do, but it's like, oh, you broke your back. Sorry, done.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's unfortunately the cruelty of evolution. If it's not 100%

• 31:26Speaker 01

  necessary for a person to survive, and it's rare enough.

• 31:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Pretty necessary.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  If, if all of us in, in, on the savannas of Africa were getting back damage, we would have figured out how to regrow, but it was so rare.

• 31:39Tom Bilyeu?

  By the time you broke your back, you were getting eaten, so.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  That's one of us is expendable. But you gotta keep the children coming. And it was mostly men who were getting broken backs anyway. From war and whatever. We're expendable.

• 31:54Tom Bilyeu?

  So wild.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. But there are some species that do regrow their nerves and grow, regrow arms even. Salamanders.

• 32:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah. I thought you were saying for humans for a second. I was like, wait.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  I wish. Not yet. But we know that it's possible in biology and we actually have evidence that what we're tapping into to regrow the optic nerve and fix the liver and skin is the same process as lizards and salamanders use to regrow limbs.

• 32:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. Okay, so what's the approach with skin? How do we? Same idea, doesn't matter the cell type, we're gonna get these three. So wait, can you then, if it's not an injection and we do turn this into a pill, is it just everything that can't be positively impacted by this will be? How will that work in terms of, um, flash me forward, it's 10 or 15 years from now. We've identified the single molecule or the best combination of these. And are we, do you see this as a targeted thing where we go in and say, okay, this is the optic nerve treatment? This is the broken back treatment, this is the liver treatment? Or is it just like, take this thing and it goes and deages all your cells?

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Yes, is the answer. What I mean by that is, um, I talked about two paths. The first path is FDA, which takes a decade or more. Fortunately, you know, we're in the clinic this, this next quarter, so we've come a long way. That's on its way, but there's another path to getting this technology to everybody and democratizing it and making it cheaper and available. And that's the non FDA path, which is going down the consumer product route.

• 33:36Tom Bilyeu?

  And just making it what, like a supplement?

• 33:39Speaker 01

  It could be a supplement, could be a cream, could be a spray. It could be even an IV. I guess that's not to consumer, but, but it's, there are some IVs that are, uh, if it's a natural molecule, you can get, deliver like a supplement. So where, where we're at now is, so we formed a company to spin out the molecules that we're finding. We have a patent already. Uh, that's been filed and spun out. Paradigm 88 with Serena, uh, who's the CEO, my partner. And we are developing consumer products that we hope that will not be 10 years, it may be a lot less, pretty soon, that we have natural, safe versions of the super drugs that we're developing that will be available much sooner and cheaper.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  And it could be something for the hair, for the skin, could be a drink, could be something like that. I won't reveal what it is, we're developing the product right now.

• 34:35Tom Bilyeu?

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• 36:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for sticking around, let's get right back into the action. My base assumption is that if it can be delivered in that sort of over-the-counter fashion, that it's like some bullshit, that it's not like the real deal. How is it possible that it can be so effective to regrow a nerve and yet be over-the-counter in an IV bag?

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we're not developing something to cure blindness. That's super potent gene therapy currently, gene manipulation. What we're talking about here, or gene introduction, we're not manipulating anybody's genes. What we're talking about here is something that... Undoubtedly will be less potent, but you don't need to cure blindness just to regrow hair or make your skin look better or to feel better. So we're going to have something, we believe, available that will show by clinical trials. I'm not going to put something out there that isn't proven to work, um, that will rejuvenate the body over time, that will turn on the same mechanisms that we're currently working on. And I believe it's possible because

• 37:15Speaker 01

  we already have three molecules. Some of those are already natural that we can get it to work. And it works within four weeks. And what do we get in the mice? Might be, people want to know, what the heck do you see in the mouse? Well, we don't know about the hair yet because we were, we were, the mice weren't bald, but we did see, and this was a year ago, we gave it to the mice down their throats for four weeks. And what we saw was rejuvenation. So they, they were better on tests of strength, memory, um, balance. We have, we have a whole set of tests, about 20 of them, that tell us whether a mouse is young or not. And based on those parameters, the mouse was de-aged in four weeks.

• 37:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. So your job right now is basically to tell the AI, hey, here's what we've got in the industrial strength version. I need you to find a natural corlet that I can do over the counter that will work.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Done, done, done, done. Um, we're at the stage of testing, but yes, we have those natural molecules, that list.

• 38:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. And are you already taking these bad boys?

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Some of them.

• 38:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting, interesting. Well, I gotta say, up close and personal, you look good.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Hey, thank you.

• 38:26Tom Bilyeu?

  You look good, man. Uh, keep me posted on when these become available. So skin, hair, those are the ones that we're focusing on right now.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Uh, well, and whole body for the, because it's working as a drink in the animal. We'll, we'll see if we can make a drink.

• 38:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Got you. So you'll feel better, but skin and hair, you'll be able to see.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:48Tom Bilyeu?

  You either have less gray hair or you don't. That one, the hair is probably the most like non placebo zone one that you're going to get.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and it's by popular demand everywhere I go. It's like, David, what am I going to do for my hair? Cause it's.

• 39:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Will it help people regrow hair or just go from gray to color?

• 39:09Speaker 01

  We we still have to prove it out, but we've de-aged the skin. So we know that the skin gets younger. The hair is next. And the way we're testing that is one of the tissues that we grow in the lab besides brain and and the placenta, not placenta, the the

• 39:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Uterus.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Uterus is we're growing skin, human skin from scratch.

• 39:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And you age it and then de-age it?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Wild.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's pretty cool.

• 39:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you have like

• 39:37Speaker 01

  To see the the hair.

• 39:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Video, anything like that of this stuff?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could get permission. I mean, my employer Harvard University isn't that keen on sharing pictures of mice growing human hair on their backs, but maybe we could.

• 39:50Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, if you want to talk about a great marketing campaign, brother, like if you're able to show like, here we are aging it up. Here we are aging it back down like people go crazy. Now, needless to say, people are going to come out of the woodwork and be like, yeah, it's all good at first. And then you're going to Benjamin Button or whatever. I guess he was the opposite direction, that there's going to be some complication that only manifests itself 10 years down the road. Uh, and the immediate one is going to be, well, if the catastrophic fail state is cancer, how do I know this isn't going to give me cancer in 10 years?

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Well, that's why we we don't rush into these things and why I think it's too early to be trying this uh systemically in our whole body. We'll start with the eye and see how that goes.

• 40:33Tom Bilyeu?

  You said you're already taking some of this stuff.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Oh, the natural molecules, yeah. And they some of these molecules have been in ancient medicine for a while, so I'm not too worried. The safety is known. I'm not taking anything where.

• 40:46Tom Bilyeu?

  So you're saying there's sort of two grades of this stuff. There's the um hardcore stuff. Is it the hardcore stuff that's going to degray your hair? Or is it the over the counter ancient herbal Chinese medicine that's going to degray the hair?

• 41:03Speaker 01

  My expectation is that we'll find natural versions in the tens of thousands of molecules that have been in the human food supply, that the right combination of those, or maybe one, will be sufficient to fix hair. Because in skin, it's working beautifully. The wrinkles go away, the thing, skin gets thicker.

• 41:22Tom Bilyeu?

  What's the, I mean, I guess you're saying we're reaching into the black box and we're just getting it to solve the information problem. This isn't like, oh, it's collagen.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Right. It's a lot more powerful than that. You hit a good point just there. The approach with disease and of cosmetics up until this point is, let's fix one thing that's missing or overproduced. We're fixing everything. We're going in and changing the biology back to what it was when it was young, which affects tens of thousands of processes with a single treatment.

• 41:55Tom Bilyeu?

  It's crazy.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  It's crazy that it works.

• 41:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  It's crazy that it's so far safe. I mean, it's a gift to humanity. Maybe that's the best proof that we're in a simulation, that this stuff is actually happening.

• 42:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Because in the real world, you're like, what's the chance that you get AI and you get age reversal? Come on. But it's happening. So whoever's watching and making this happen, maybe they're having fun.

• 42:17Tom Bilyeu?

  It's bananas. Did your dad age as well as you?

• 42:21Speaker 01

  He's aging better than me.

• 42:24Tom Bilyeu?

  But I'm saying, like, before you

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 42:26Tom Bilyeu?

  came up with all this stuff, like, because if dad looked like you at whatever fifty-ish you are.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Then, okay, you just have good fucking genes. But if this is dad look like a normal fifty-five-year-old, there's

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:42Tom Bilyeu?

  more hope.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Well, my mother was, did better off, though. She died of cancer, but lung cancer. She had good skin and, and not a lot of gray. But my father, yeah, he, he looks like.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  When he was my age fifty six, he looked like a fifty six year old.

• 43:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Though it's slowed down. Anyone who's seen the photos out there, he's slowed down over the last twenty years.

• 43:10Tom Bilyeu?

  His aging because of

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Apparently.

• 43:13Tom Bilyeu?

  protocols that you've been advising him on or?

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not experimenting on my dad. He's a scientist as well. But he listens and he takes a few of the things that I do, about five of them. And he physically doesn't look like he's aging and at eighty six, he's in better health than he has been in decades. No aches or pains. If you see him walk, he doesn't walk like an eighty six year old. We just climbed the Harbour Bridge in Sydney, which is a massive thing for anybody. And for him, it's no big deal. Actually, Serena and I, we did like twenty thousand steps around the city before we climbed the bridge. And at eighty six, most men are in the ground or

• 43:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  gone. And my father's run out of friends, his age, that he can hang out with and go for walks because they're all very frail. And he's like, what's the big deal? I've got nothing wrong with me and I'm going out every night. So, you know, it might be coincidence. It's an N of one, which is basically you can't draw any conclusions. But like you say, he was old at my age looking. He'd lost his hair. It was all grey in his fifty, sixties. But physically, he hasn't changed since then, since he started working on it. Which is about twenty five years of work.

• 44:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, if you can regrow hair, you've got a monster hit. If you can de-gray hair, you've got a hit. And man, if you can make especially women's skin look younger, ooh, buddy.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  I'm really optimistic that we will have a new approach to cosmetics. What products out there, they all say they de-age skin. But which ones permanently de-age skin? None. And you might

• 44:56Tom Bilyeu?

  You're saying it permanently de-ages it if you keep using it because my understanding was that you have to pulse this stuff so that as you use it, it de-ages, but then it starts aging again, then you use it again.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Right, but it's not like collagen or moisturizer where a week later you don't see it or Botox, which has gone in months or whatever. What we see in our studies is In the case of the mouse, we cured its glaucoma, it could see again. And then it wasn't for another third of its life that it lost its sight again. But the good news is we could turn it back on again. So the timeline for us is you you treat. And then you treat maybe five, 10 years later and you just keep treating. And the treatment is interesting that we've engineered it so that you don't need to get an injection every time.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  You just take a drug to turn on the genes and de-age the eye or de-age the body. And that's a proprietary system. And it's we used a molecule doxycycline. It's used to treat Lyme disease, but we're using it over a matter of a few weeks or really six weeks to turn on those three genes, OSK. And so really the de-aging comes down to one shot. And then antibiotic treatment for as often as you need it.

• 46:16Tom Bilyeu?

  And is that an altered variation of the antibiotic? Or literally, if you want to de-age, go take Lyme medication?

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is the drug and we chose it because it was well established as a gene inducer. The way it was engineered. Ideally, we want to change that and get away from an antibiotic. Because of course, you know, you want your gut bacteria.

• 46:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, my wife has been hammered from too many antibiotics.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that said, it was the most reliable system. And if it works, we will engineer a new system, but we need to make sure it works. If it fails, we're going to set the field back by years. So we've got to make sure it works, then we can use something else to turn it on besides doxycycline. That said, you know, if you're a paraplegic or you've lost your eyesight. You'll take some probiotics, right, to restore your gut.

• 47:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah, wild. Okay, talk to me about personal protocols.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  And when I take a molecule, I see what happens to me before I take something else. I'm very scientific about it. So it's taken me 25, 30 years to get to the point where I'm taking a set, core set of things. And I know what each one does and in combination, taking a lot more simultaneously. And when you do that. It's impossible to know exactly what the interactions are, what's affecting what exactly. Right. So it's it's different. And so it's hard to figure out if you take something, what is the effect of that molecule alone, which is the way science is generally done.

• 47:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, do you trust that like if I could run a similar protocol in terms of being able to afford it, if I were to go that crazy, are you like, yeah, if you're taking 80 things, but you're looking at these 36 biomarkers or whatever, if those biomarkers are going in the right direction, I can't tell you which one of the 80 things is actually doing the work or what combination. But yeah, those are the biomarkers. Go for it.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Hmm. Well, I want to be cautious because there could be long term negative consequences that you can't see with a blood test. So first of all, it's it's not for everybody. It does require doctor supervision and testing. Otherwise, if you start taking that stuff, you could react very badly. You can measure the rate of aging by looking at how these methods change over time. And it's called a DNA methylation clock, if you want to look it up. I would say that there's not one clock through the mall. But we also it's still an association. We the association is never conclusive in science. The association, though, mostly from my good friend Steve Horvath, who developed these clocks originally, he

• 48:52Speaker 01

  found that people with slower rates of of change in those clocks, or had less age in those clocks tended to live longer and have fewer diseases. That's pretty good. But we don't know if changing the rate of your clock midlife makes a difference. Probably.

• 49:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  But that's I got to, you know, you're very rigorous in what's bullshit and what's not. So I'm being very careful about delineating what we know and what we don't.

• 49:17Tom Bilyeu?

  His major assertion is I'm slowing my aging down because I believe that AI on a long enough timeline is going to make it so that humans can live forever. Do you see a stopper in biology that will make that impossible? Obviously, nobody knows how to do it yet. But do you see anything where it's like, because of that, there's no way we're going to be able to do this? Or to you, is it just, I don't know?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  It's in between. And now. I'm not a kind of guy that that I'm not stupid. I don't want to bet against Ray Kurzweil too much. He's been right a lot and he's talking about singularity. Do you remember the day it's in the mid?

• 49:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, twenty forty five, I think.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like that. Now, I'd be the happiest person on the planet if if our stuff works and we can live forever. That's that's not a bad day. But I but I think that being at the forefront of this change, there is something that concerns me that may prevent us within that timeframe of becoming, you know, living for a thousand years at least. Immortality, I think, is is so far out there. I think it's better to talk about, is there going to be a small change of five years? Or is it going to be hundreds of years or a thousand? And one of the problems with aging is that there are two types of information.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  There's the methols, which is the epigenetic information, and I know how to reverse that seventy five percent multiple times. Probably eventually, it'll, you know, we'll lose information eventually. There's there's no way it's a hundred percent, you know, pure reversal. So there's noise in the system, even if I reverse it. But where we're not very good at reversing is the genetic information loss, right? Epigenetic is cool. There's a backup copy. We've found that. But there, if you've lost both copies of the gene for X in a cell, there's no backup. All right. And so trying to do that for those cells is very difficult

• 51:19Speaker 01

  right now. We do know how to edit genes. We can fix genes. But doing that on a cell-by-cell basis is beyond current imagination and technology, even imagining technology to do that.

• 51:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, you can't just flood the body with stem cells or whatever.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Not currently, no, because the stem cells that people inject, they stick around, but they don't find their niche. You know, you can't yet cure gray hair, as far as I know, by injecting stem cells. And the reason is, you have to get them into that very small mac, almost microscopic niche hole where they sit.

• 51:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  So no, not yet. But hopefully someone will come up with either a type of stem cell or a type of gene therapy that can go into a cell, figure out what's missing or broken and correct the genome. And then, you know, my stuff will come along and reverse the epigenome. And then I could imagine living thousands of years because I can imagine it. People say, a thousand years, that's crazy. The reason that I think it's doable is there are already living things that last that long. Why? Because they have very stable information. There's a plant in the Nabi Desert that lasts for, it's been around since the pyramids, some of these plants.

• 52:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  And when you look at their genome, they have a very special genome that protects the information and preserves it for thousands of years. We lose our information pretty fast. We've kind of lost a lot of our information by age eighty. Whereas these plants and somewhere in between, a whale preserves information even better than we do.

• 52:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm. It's incredible. Okay, give me one prognostication. Where do you think this goes in the, call it near term? So what are we looking at? What changes will we actively experience in the next three years? And then I'll really give you some wiggle room and tell me what it looks like 20 years from now.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  The next few months are critical. I'm going to find out if this gene therapy, I shouldn't call it gene therapy. It's more of a gene introduction. The age reversal technology, if it works in people. The world will probably find out a year from now. I'm going to be sworn to secrecy. I'm not even going to be able to wink. It's that important. But I'm going to know in a few months if this works.

• 53:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  But anyway, let's say a year from now, everyone knows that it works. This is best case scenario. And again, it's, I think, eighty, ninety percent chance. Then the world goes nuts. That's a chat G P T moment for biology for aging. Cause we've got it to work in humans. Now the question is now, what do you do with that technology? There's going to be a gold rush. Already there are billions of dollars. Spread across my company and others, competitors, Sam Altman's company, Brian Armstrong. Even Jeff Bezos is in this. There's going to be a massive gold rush to try and catch up. To break my patents, to get around them and to treat other things besides vision. And just like A I is now.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Uh, what is it? It's only three years since chat G P T came.

• 54:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 54:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Crazy.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  So there's going to be that kind of a momentum, if this works. Where the world will just be listening to every result, every pundit on this topic. That's my prediction for the short term. In twenty years. I think that whether I'm successful or not, we're still going to have somebody achieve what I'm talking about. Um, and it could be age reversal for many organs. And again, there's billions of dollars put to this, so it's.

• 54:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Does everyone just look twenty five? Like, what does that actually look like?

• 55:04Speaker 01

  It's possible that my father, who looks eighty six. Could look like us after treating himself for a few months.

• 55:11Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild. So you think though it's shave maybe thirty or forty percent off your life. It's not, you go back to looking twenty five.

• 55:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Because like fat storage, the type of fat, where it's stored, all that stuff matters. It's not just skin.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I'm, I'm hedging my bets here, saying that he's going to look middle aged.

• 55:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Right. So it's going to be far more complicated. It's not like.

• 55:40Tom Bilyeu?

  You take an I V drip and like, uh, death becomes her, like her boobs get perky again. And her ass tucks up and her skin changes. It's not, yeah, it's not going to quite be that.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  We don't know. We really don't know. I've seen nothing to suggest that that won't happen. It's just. We're at the beginning. We're at the beginning. It'd be like asking again, the Wright brothers. Do you imagine that there'll be a Concorde jet that can fly around the world? They're like, yeah, of course. But we're still building the right flyer right now. So it's coming, no question. We, we, we've, we've shown the biology is there and we can do it. But it's going to take some work to get to that kind of a molecule, I think. We can take a pill and truly regenerate our entire body back to being twenty. You know, that said, you do want to stick around because this technology is coming. And if you start early, now eventually imagine the, the drug.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  I don't know if it'll ever be over the counter, but imagine that it is. You can go down to your local store and get this stuff. It might be five dollars a pill. I don't know, something like that. And start when you're twenty five. And you just stay twenty five for a while, for a long while. All right. De-aging my father from eighty six is much more challenging than starting at twenty five.

• 57:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, hurry, please. Uh, okay. So given that we've got to buy ourselves a little bit of time while the technology gets finalized, proven, all of that. How should people be approaching their health with things that they can do right now today?

• 57:16Speaker 01

  But I, I want to start by saying, um, I do some experimental stuff and some regular stuff. So what, what, I'll tell you as much as I can tell everybody.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  One of the reasons that I'm starting, restarting my podcast is because every day, literally on the street, people say, when's your podcast starting?

• 57:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, brother, it, it is about time.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks. I've been busy working on these drugs, but now that they're in the clinic.

• 57:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  I've got the time now. You know, the future is set. It's going to happen or not. So I want to start ed- re-educating everybody about what have we, what's happened recently that everyone needs to know about. And so that's coming. We're just editing now. So that's exciting, man. Very exciting.

• 57:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Very exciting.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  And it's new and improved, so you'll see.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Also, I just want to remind everybody that the stack that I had when my book came out in lifespan, the book lifespan is still true. I'm still taking what's on page three hundred and four, but I've added a few things which can, we'll talk about. All right, so let's start with the fundamentals that my father takes and I take, and we've been taking them for over a decade. So far, so good. I'm still alive, he's still alive, which is good. When we started taking them, by the way, people said, what are you taking that stuff for? It's, it's not known. So now, ten years later, first one is NMN. NMN do not confuse with N, with M and Ms. Right?

• 58:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Very different.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Not make you.

• 58:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Much my dismay, yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, I heard your podcast about sugar the other day.

• 58:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, not a fan.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Me neither, no. And we should talk about what to avoid, actually. But what you should consider taking, what I've started taking with my father is NMN, and I take a gram of that as capsules every day. And you just want to make sure it's really pure. It should either taste slightly sour, like a Sour Patch Kid if you're in the US, or there's a form of it that tastes a bit like sweet popcorn.

• 59:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you have, well, say more. Do you have a brand that you can recommend? Or is that weird, given your position?

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know what happens, Tom, is if I mention a brand, it's all over the internet. Now I'm used to sell millions of dollars of product.

• 59:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  It's not fair to, to anybody. And even if I don't mention it, my name is all over the products as well. So I don't want to endorse a product, but I will guide people to say, look for GMP pure, and you can look for it. It should be pure white. If it's not pure white, it's not pure. And, and it should taste like those two things. And that, that's the best thing. But I won't mention brands. I, I don't want to be lumped in. Already people think I sell supplements for a living, which is BS. And I don't want to make that worse. I'm, I'm just a scientist, developing medicines.

• 59:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but you're, you're on the internet. Welcome.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, you and I know how AI is getting crazy.

• 1:00:03Tom Bilyeu?

  It's wild. I can only imagine how many AI David Sinclair's are out in the world.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  There, there's a number, and, and the biggest one, where there were millions of views, got taken down last week, thank God.

• 1:00:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Thank God, yeah.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. But that's the future. So everyone listening, be beware of fake versions of me giving out health advice. So lifespan.com and the lifespan podcast is the original. It's going to be real.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  So there's N M N. Next one is resveratrol. That's the staple of mine for 15 years. Resveratrol is that red wine molecule, but I don't drink red wine anymore. Serena told me it's better not to drink and I don't.

• 1:00:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Very smart.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Yep. And you don't drink alcohol either. So it is smart. I'm not as funny as I used to be, but, but I do have mental clarity like never before since my twenties.

• 1:00:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, it's rough. I'd love alcohol. If it was optimizing me, I would do it all the time. It is very enjoyable, but alas.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So what you want to do is take out the molecule without and take it without the alcohol, which is what I do. I take a small spoonful. It's, it's about a gram of resveratrol. Again, look for white or slightly gray. If it's brown or brownish, throw it away. It's contaminated with other stuff that can give you diarrhea.

• 1:01:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Fun.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's plenty of resveratrol out on the supplement. And again, look for 98, 99% pure stuff. And I mix that with something that dissolves it because it, if you put it into a cup of water, it'll sink to the bottom and it will just go straight through your tract. Most of it, you will not get absorbed. You can increase that fivefold by mixing it with either olive oil or a bit of yogurt.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  I, I do either.

• 1:01:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Is it fat soluble? Is that why?

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's like brick dust.

• 1:01:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Yummy.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. So most people don't know that. And even clinical trials that have been done on resveratrol have failed because they just gave it to them with water.

• 1:01:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. Yeah. All these little details matter.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  The third thing is a glucose lowering medicine.

• 1:02:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Or a supplement.

• 1:02:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Why not just eat low sugar?

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  That too.

• 1:02:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Is it because people don't do it? Or even if, like me, my glucose is low because I am, I'm a disciplined freak. And if I decide I'm not eating something, that's that. So my glucose lives in the mid eighties. You're saying even there, I should take something to push it down even more?

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Um, well, mid eighties, you could go slightly slower or lower, but um, I mean, if it was fasting eighty.

• 1:02:36Tom Bilyeu?

  No, I don't fast at eighty. If I'm fasted, it's mid to low sixties.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  I see. Okay, then you're good. It might actually be. You know, it might be too much for you to take one of these things. You might get hypoglycemia, though that's not common. I, on the other hand, have diabetes in my family and without a very strict diet and one of these medicines, I'm, I'm probably gonna be about a hundred.

• 1:03:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Really? What are you eating?

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Um, and then fasted.

• 1:03:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, wait, hold on, cuz you're like super veggie forward, right?

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Tom Bilyeu?

  So you're probably in taking a lot more carbs than I am.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I don't know exactly your diet, but I am taking a lot more vegetables than I used to. Um, for health reasons, but I'm taking in the plants because I want the polyphenols in the plants as well as part of my diet, which meat does not have.

• 1:03:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, give me percentage of total calories over a year, meat versus vegetable matter.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Ninety-five plant.

• 1:03:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow, okay.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, I changed to plants because Serena is actually vegan and I tried it. And within thirty days, the inflammation in my body came way down and glucose came down, actually. So, but I was, I was.

• 1:03:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Measured by C-reactive protein? What were you measuring for the inflammation?

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  C-reactive protein was the big one that came down, but I'm also measuring things like TNF-alpha, IL-1 beta, IL-6. But yeah, CRP is a good way to get it down is to, to cut out, I cut out dairy and I cut out meat for a while. I still occasionally eat meat. I'm not total vegan anymore.

• 1:04:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah. Five percent over a year, that's not a lot. Okay, cool.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Uh, I will say that I'm, I have an advantage, which is that, uh, Serena is in LA and I'm in LA.

• 1:04:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  A fair bit. It's great food in this city. Boston, not so much. Um, but I also, I can afford good food. So I buy the best quality foods, fresh, organic, good restaurants that cook, don't overcook the food.

• 1:04:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Listen, my wife and I eat from a vegan restaurant routinely. I just put meat on it. I'm not kidding. But their stuff is so flavorful that I'm like, give me more, but I gotta add meat.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, so the drugs that, the drug that people typically take is Metformin. I think that's pretty well known and you can get that online or from a doctor, but it is prescription. You need to talk to a doctor and you want to monitor your blood glucose levels accordingly and your liver.

• 1:05:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Now from other podcasts, you, you go on and off Metformin? You don't stay on Metformin?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  I, I do a couple of things that's worth, that are worth noting. Uh, the Metformin that I get in the US wreaks havoc on my stomach. I'm one of the 40% of people that have a stomach upset. The stuff that, um, I don't get from the US, let's put it that way. When I'm acting like an Australian, for example, their, their version is coded and I don't get that problem. So that's actually one of the reasons that I, I, I change from Metformin to this other more natural or totally natural form called Berberine.

• 1:05:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. Same idea though?

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, Berberine is-

• 1:05:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Is Berberine over the counter?

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I take Serena's supplement, um, cause I can, can trust her supplements being pure. And, um, but yeah, Berberine has been shown clinically to reduce blood glucose, very similar to what Metformin does. So those are three big ones. Um, you good with those?

• 1:06:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. So my father's on that. We recently added a couple of things to my father's regimen, not we, he did. Uh, one is Natto kinase, which is an enzyme that comes from fermented soybeans.

• 1:06:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Just like powder format?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Uh, it's a capsule powder. Yeah.

• 1:06:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I have cardiovascular disease in my family.

• 1:06:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  And my father also has cardiovascular risk.

• 1:06:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you have a marker that you look for? Do you, are you getting?

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:06:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Ultrasounds or what?

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  I do. I'm getting, uh, and actually I want to qualify. If you get really, really low, uh, LDL C, you can also reverse some plaque. So it's not the only thing, but it's the most natural way. And, uh, yeah, so I get carotid ultrasounds and look at the, um, in IMT. You know about that?

• 1:06:46Tom Bilyeu?

  No. Not by that name, how about that?

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that that measures the thickness of the wall of the

• 1:06:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, and the flexibility and all that. I've had my artery scanned before, years ago. Uh, how often do you do it?

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yearly.

• 1:07:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. And have you seen an improvement, or it just stays steady?

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Not yet, because I've not been on it for a year.

• 1:07:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Got you. Okay. Report back.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I will. Good. Um, so there's netoconiz. I'm also taking um, half a gram of niacin, vitamin B3, these days, because I have high levels of something that everybody should measure called LP parentheses little a.

• 1:07:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  And it is a lipoprotein that carries cholesterol in the bloodstream, and is thought to be responsible for the deposition of cholesterol and um, inflammation in the artery.

• 1:07:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  And it was first found just by association. Uh, people that had high levels of this lipoprotein, LP little a, were susceptible to cardiovascular disease, but over the last 10 years, it's been steadily showing that people with high levels are really at risk in as much as having high LDL C levels.

• 1:07:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  And so much so that there's a lot of money being spent in the pharmaceutical industry to make a drug that will lower LP little a levels.

• 1:08:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Of course.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  And there's one that's in phase three that looks promising.

• 1:08:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Um, but I'm one of the people, and my father is, because of our Ashkenazi Jew heritage, that we have a version of the LP little a that is highly expressed. So my levels were 34, and you'd want it to be more like 10 or less.

• 1:08:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Yo.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  So I immediately increased the levels of the statin, and I know there's pluses and minuses for statins, but I've been on a statin successfully since I was 29.

• 1:08:33Tom Bilyeu?

  What?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  My grandmother had a stroke at 30.

• 1:08:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Bro.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  The fact that I'm still alive is is good news.

• 1:08:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Jesus.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, was this like a stress induced, was she like in World War Two? Like, what are we talking about?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Might be that. Yeah.

• 1:08:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Cause thirty's young.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  She, well, she didn't have a very healthy childhood because she grew up um after the depression in Hungary. Then there was the Second World War where her part of our family was wiped out.

• 1:09:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, she Askenazi as well?

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  No, we haven't been Jewish for the last four or so generations. But I recently did my uh family tree and can tra- could trace back a thousand years.

• 1:09:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, snap.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  So I'm a, I just, one of probably many descendants of uh some of the most famous rabbis uh from the Middle Ages. Didn't know that till this, this uh season. But anyway, the, the, the point is that gene coming from that line makes me highly susceptible to heart disease. And I've had to fight it since I was twenty nine.

• 1:09:35Tom Bilyeu?

  A statin though, doesn't make your joints hurt and stuff like that? Like I hear horror stories about statins.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  Not for me, no. I, I of course make sure that I'm okay on a particular drug because we'll react differently. And for me, the statin's been great. It's not for everybody, of course. And there are actually alternatives now that are not statins. There's PCSK nine inhibitors, which are really effective for lowering LDL. And there's more to come. The drugs that are getting there for blood pressure, for cholesterol, uh and now for blood sugar are amazing. We really shouldn't be dying from those diseases anymore.

• 1:10:07Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And even cancer, the prevention for cancer is getting to the point where getting scans, getting DNA blood tests. We're at a point where you have to be really unlucky to get cancer.

• 1:10:18Tom Bilyeu?

  So I just got cancer. So say more about that. So uh skin cancer. I have lived my whole life with an abundance of caution around the sun.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:10:27Tom Bilyeu?

  So nobody, I, I've been clowned on by my wife for decades. Because I stay out of the sun, I wear hats, like ridiculous hats.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  I've never seen you with a tan.

• 1:10:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Bro.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:38Tom Bilyeu?

  So uh.

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  We barely need lights in here.

• 1:10:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. So what the fuck? Like, yeah, any guesses?

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Well, people can get lung cancer without ever smoking. There is a

• 1:10:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Skin cancer? You're getting skin cancer without overexposure to the sun? For real?

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Like It can happen.

• 1:10:53Tom Bilyeu?

  For real, for real? Like, what do I, how do we fight that fight? What's the protocol?

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Well, so the, the, the start is stay out of the sun, which you've done your whole life?

• 1:11:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, first of all, I grew up in Tacoma, Washington, so there is no sun. And then here, I've always stayed in the shade. Now, because my wife is Greek and loves the sun more than anything in this universe, there's no doubt that I'm sun adjacent a lot. So I'll be under the umbrella while my wife suntans. But I, I can burn in the shade, just to give you an idea of where we're at here. So I've had to be paranoid because I will burn so easily.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Do you have any family history?

• 1:11:32Tom Bilyeu?

  My dad has had skin cancer multiple times.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  So if I did your genome, have you done your genome?

• 1:11:37Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  See, because you could be susceptible in some ways.

• 1:11:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, apparently I am susceptible.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's another good reason for getting your genome done, if you can afford it. It can really make sure that you do the right thing. Now, besides staying out of the sun, you can also, with your diet, maybe not prevent, but reduce your chances of getting certain types of cancer, including skin cancer.

• 1:12:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Like?

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  I thought you'd ask.

• 1:12:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Are we in the avoid mechanism here now? You said we should talk about what to avoid.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  For sure, avoid. That's, that's the easy stuff.

• 1:12:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Is that where we're headed with skin cancer?

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  No, I was gonna say what you can take.

• 1:12:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Say more.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  So the polyphenols in plants, one of the reasons I take a lot of plants, especially colored ones. Serena says, eat the rainbow.

• 1:12:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Isn't there a ton of polyphenols in olive oil?

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  So olive oil

• 1:12:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Most olive oil.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  And green tea, matcha, the, the thick dark green stuff.

• 1:12:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Talk with matcha, but maybe I should, okay.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Those are highly anti-cancer. And they're preventing DNA damage. They're reducing inflammation that all can drive cancer.

• 1:12:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:39Tom Bilyeu?

  About to go hard on matcha then.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  So we do, Serena, again, you can tell Serena played a big role in my life. The, the matcha, we drink every morning, at least one. And I don't drink coffee much anymore instead. And then throughout the day, I'm drinking. Tea and eventually caffeine free tea after lunch. But I'm always with liquids and the match has been a great change to my life. And I don't own shares in any much of companies, by the way. But I do love it. And so the the kind of foods, I mean, there are some good books about that, about how to eat to prevent cancer or treat cancer as well. And if you do have cancer, look into it. We talked about ketosis and drinking ketones. Those are.

• 1:13:19Tom Bilyeu?

  They have anti cancer properties?

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are certain types of cancers. So cancer loves sugar, just like the brain. But they don't just like the brain, but not like the brain, they don't like ketones. So what often is recommended for someone? I'll give you an example. My neighbor developed prostate cancer. Very common in men, of course, most of us. My age, we have something coming along. We, he went immediately and he was, he's an expert, I say was because he's not around anymore. But he visualized in oncology.

• 1:13:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, God.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  And he immediately went on a keto diet.

• 1:13:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  And took loads of metformin.

• 1:13:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, yeah, we studied this back at Quest.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:13:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh huh, but he died. So the punchline here is not great unless he was hit by a bus and totally unrelated to the prostate cancer.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  He didn't die from cancer.

• 1:14:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Really? What did he die from?

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  I don't know if I should say, but it.

• 1:14:14Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm too curious now, you gotta say.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  It was depression.

• 1:14:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Really? Oh, shit. Okay. Secondary effect of the cancer, though, like the treatment's grueling.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, what what happened to him and of course. I haven't mentioned his name, so I think it's okay to talk about it. He was on testosterone therapy, anti testosterone therapy, which for men is is tough. And he lost libido, he lost will to live. It was the middle of.

• 1:14:43Tom Bilyeu?

  And coming off of it.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  No, while on the drug, knocking down the levels of his hormones so that the tumor wouldn't thrive.

• 1:14:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  But instead he lost his manhood. And went into depression because of its comment.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  And it was the middle of the pandemic too.

• 1:15:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, God.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  So he didn't, he didn't choose to stick around.

• 1:15:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Yo, that's rough. Okay.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  So on that note, yeah, do what you can to prevent cancer. Get yourself scanned. Have you got that?

• 1:15:14Tom Bilyeu?

  I, well, I've obviously now I get visually scanned routinely.

• 1:15:20Tom Bilyeu?

  But no, I have not done the like full body. I'm waiting for Peter Diamandis to open his LA branch. He's been trying to get me out to Florida or wherever the other ones are, which now, obviously when I got the skin cancer, I was like, damn it.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  We'll, we'll get, get that scanned for sure. MRI scans are good. Serena and I get one of those every year. And that's full body. It won't pick up melanoma, most likely because it's small. So you do need to be visually scanned. You can either get that done by your physician or by a machine.

• 1:15:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Wasn't melanoma. Melanoma, I would have been like, this is a diet problem. This was another one. I forget what it's called. But they say this is from sun exposure.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Oh, so it was on a place which is exposed then.

• 1:16:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  That's good. That's probably.

• 1:16:04Tom Bilyeu?

  That's good.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 1:16:05Tom Bilyeu?

  That's not good.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  Didn't, I don't think I said that's good. I did. That makes sense that it was on your face. If I said that's good, I didn't mean that.

• 1:16:13Tom Bilyeu?

  It's all right. I'm glad that you're happy for my.

• 1:16:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:16:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Facial.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  But it's gone now and I can't see.

• 1:16:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, it's gone.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Now.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Did you, is it okay if I ask you about it?

• 1:16:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I'll go crazy.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Did you treat it with any cream?

• 1:16:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, no. So we looked at that option and it was going to be like three weeks of open sore on my face and then may not work. And so they were saying, listen, you should just get it removed. And then I was like, I don't trust you. I need to go get another opinion. And so I went and did like a deep dive on like, what are the pros and cons? And given that it itself can leave a scar because it's basically like chemotherapy topically. So I was like, oh, yeah. So I said, let's just go to the one that's like 98% cure rate.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 1:17:07Tom Bilyeu?

  So I did that and.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Tom Bilyeu?

  So far, so good. So.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Okay, good. Yeah, this cream is, is tough. Um, yeah, it's, it's probably five fluorosol, which gets stuck in the replicating strand of DNA and kills cells that are dividing.

• 1:17:21Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Actually, my father recently, for the same reason. Uh, skin cancer on his head, his bald head, put the cream on. Um, so yeah, if you, if you are

• 1:17:33Tom Bilyeu?

  How did it work? Did it go okay?

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  Be careful. Wear a hat.

• 1:17:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  Uh, it went okay, but you peel and it's, you know, it's not good.

• 1:17:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Did it get rid of it?

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  Um, he had a surgery as well.

• 1:17:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah. See, that's why I was like, I don't want to do the one, two punch. It's like, if I'm going to have the surgery, let's just do the surgery.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he, he also put the cream on everywhere because

• 1:17:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Just in case to like get some early stage stuff.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  That's what's often done.

• 1:17:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Got it.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Uh, and a friend of mine did it all over his face. It was like a

• 1:18:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Yo.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Burning your face, but he had a few and just to try and get rid of what's, what's left. They do that in case there's little ones that you can't see, but I, I'd recommend you do a blood test as well.

• 1:18:12Tom Bilyeu?

  I've done the blood test.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Tom Bilyeu?

  And the great irony was like, I knew I all, it had already been diagnosed, like I'd had the biopsy. And so when I got the blood test back and it's like, you're fine. I was like, well, then I know this thing isn't a hundred percent because I actively have it right now.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's, that's also something that everyone should know is that these are adjuncts, that these tests, these blood tests. If they say you're cancer free, doesn't mean you're cancer free.

• 1:18:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Means you don't have anything that we know how to detect.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  And there's also false positives as well. So I, I use the test as a warning sign, not as a diagnosis.

• 1:18:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Very smart.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  But still, if you can afford it and you really want to put money into your health, rather than, I don't know what toys. Then it's, it's a good way to invest. Get, get the full body MRI and get a blood test for cancer. And you may miss something, but you may pick something up as well. But they're, they're also probably doctors who are listening to this saying, great, everyone's going to go out and get an MRI and find that they've got some disease that isn't real. There is some truth to that, that you, on an MRI, you can find things that are not going to kill you and you might want to investigate.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  My personal view about that as a scientist, not as a doctor, I'm a PhD, is that more data is better in biology, in in health. And that's why I science the shit out of myself. And I'm also a guinea pig that I I wanna learn and educate. But I don't wanna shy away from learning something, even if I find a false positive. You know, I'll I'd rather not live in ignorance.

• 1:19:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, no, I'm with you on that.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  And then you get a baseline. So my baseline over the last few years has been perfect health. But if something changes, AI will, the doctor will detect it. So it's better to get a baseline before you're sick.

• 1:20:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, no doubt. All right, you just gave us a bunch of stuff that we should do. What about the things we should not do?

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Oh, well, the easy ones are if you smoke, please quit. My mother did not, and she is no longer with me, and she would be if she didn't smoke. Do not deny, I'm, I know you don't smoke. I never have, but don't live in denial that you'll be one of the lucky ones. It's the best thing you can do for your health is to not smoke. You'll age prematurely too, and you'll look like shit at my age. Drinking, occasional drink, okay, but don't drink consistently. I was drinking red wine every day. That was too much. We know that people who drink even just one glass of alcohol a day tend to have smaller brain size.

• 1:20:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, fuck that.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's scatter in the plot. Not everybody has this, but the trend line is down with the more alcohol you drink. And the more you drink, the smaller your brain will be.

• 1:20:57Tom Bilyeu?

  No, thanks.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so skip alcohol smoking.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  Sedentary behavior, we're all prone to it, we're doing it right now. Get a standing desk at a minimum, walk, take the stairs. And if you, if you, if you can run, lose your breath three times a week at least. I don't care what kind of exercise you're doing, right?

• 1:21:18Tom Bilyeu?

  I can think of some fun ways.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  There are fun ways, and you only need ten minutes. You don't need to be a marathon man.

• 1:21:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Perfect.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like, is two, is two, is two minutes enough?

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  But ten minutes will be fine for us. And you know, even if it's a rowing sport, it's all great, but lose your breath three times a week if you can. I joke that my exercise is running to the terminal to catch a plane. It's kind of like that. And that does make it difficult, but um, got to move, got to move, don't sit. And at at work, if you come, I hope you come see me in the lab, I'll be at a standing desk most days. Nice. And people on Zoom think that I'm floating in space because I'm doing this, but I don't. I'm not still throughout the day. I even hold meetings while I'm standing. I just pace around and they think I'm crazy, but sitting is is the new smoking, as they say. So those are the the big do nots. You left out one that I think is mahusive, which is sugar. Thank you.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  I've, for me, it's just a way of life. So that's why I didn't think of it.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  I avoid sugar like the plague, like you do. I think of it as a toxin. It's not really a toxin, but long term it is. It will attach physically, glucose will attach to your proteins. HbA1C, that's a prediction for diabetes, right? If you go, you probably know this, not everyone knows, HbA1C is what your doctor tests for diabetes. That's literally glucose attached to your hemoglobin. As a bellwether, as a canary in the coal mine, for glucose attaching to all the proteins in your body. You don't want that. Glucose attached to proteins will make them dysfunctional. And who knows what else is going wrong, but we know that that causes diabetes. Glucose also will give you a spike, it'll give you a, you know, a real high initially.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  But anyone who's worn a glucose monitor will know the consequences. You will have a crash, brain fog, hunger, distraction. Whereas if you don't eat sugar, you have this steady flow of glucose coming out of your liver through gluconeogenesis, which is the term for making glucose naturally. And my liver is much smarter than my mouth. It will make pure minimal amounts of glucose that my body needs and supplement that with ketones by drink and it's it's bliss. I power through the day, I rarely get tired. If your kids are eating a lot of candy, please give them something else. No joke. Right? Because, by the way, kids' epigenomes, the the methyls on their body on in their cells.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Those marks are laid down during the teenage years as well. And it's known that kids that eat badly will have consequences decades later because of this memory in how the genes are turned on and off.

• 1:23:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  And kids today are aging faster than they used to.

• 1:24:00Tom Bilyeu?

  That is not a surprise.

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  And I think it's because of the diet.

• 1:24:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, no doubt.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  And it's no surprise that girls are getting fertile more, more earlier.

• 1:24:08Tom Bilyeu?

  That one is distressing.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  Because they're getting older earlier. We are aging our children.

• 1:24:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  And it starts at birth. Is aging, actually aging begins at the week, second week of conception.

• 1:24:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  So we, we, we're not immune, even when we're in our twenties and we eat pizza and, you know, a lot of us experiment with drugs and alcohol. That's aging us and you feel it at our age.

• 1:24:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Thankfully, I didn't do drugs and alcohol, but I did a lot of junk food.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Tom Bilyeu?

  I'll tell you that.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Woof. All right, man, now that I've got you, is there anything else, any parting shots you want to leave people with, a super secret thing they should be doing or know about, pay attention to, anything like that?

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  Um, there's, there's sleep, but there's a lot of experts on that. Make sure you get good deep sleep. Deep sleep will clear out the proteins in your brain that you need to get rid of. Um, including probably the Alzheimer's protein. Um, A beta. Uh, another thing that would be important to mention would be that stress in your life is a killer.

• 1:25:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  And it's difficult.

• 1:25:08Tom Bilyeu?

  That's why I'm shortening my life for sure.

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  High achievers are the worst. And if you're a high achiever, and I, I am by choice trying to be a high achiever. I spent the first fifty years of my life on edge almost every day. Even if I'd go for a walk in the forest, I was thinking about the mistakes that I'd made the day before.

• 1:25:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  That kind of guy in the shower, I'm, I'm swearing to myself, you're an idiot. All that is, almost all of that is gone. Again, Serena was a big influence. She taught me how to calm my mind, not worry about things so much. But it's hard. It's super hard because we are by nature, many of us are driven and we want to be perfect. We'll never be perfect and we'll always have stress. So try to think about life in the long run. Treat it like a game. It's not that serious. It may not even be real, as we discussed. So go for it, have fun, but don't worry too much and get, get sleep. Cause if you don't sleep enough or get deep sleep, you will have a high heart rate. You will feel stressed throughout the day. And I have times during the day now that I. I breathe, I shut my eyes, I do box breathing.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Um, I've even, even on occasion, set an alarm. At 11 o'clock, I'm going to take time out to lower uh, my nervous system down again.

• 1:26:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  And it's been great.

• 1:26:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Very smart. All right, well, you've got the podcast rebooting. Where can people follow along and engage with you?

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  Hey, thanks. Uh, well, it's lifespan.com. And on social media, you can find me. I'm pretty prominent on most of those platforms.

• 1:26:35Tom Bilyeu?

  I would say.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Uh, I do work at that's fun. I like educating, so I tell people about the latest findings in science there and what I'm doing. Um, and then I've got a, a Friends of Sinclair Lab to fund my lab now that all the government funding got terminated. And, uh, so if you're interested, check out Friends, Friends of Sinclair Lab dot O R G.

• 1:26:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Friends of Sinclair Lab dot O R G, you'll find me there.

• 1:26:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Love it, man. This is awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's wonderful to sit across from you again. And I could not be more excited about the things you're working on. Fingers crossed that they get across the finish line. Be incredible.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Cross your fingers for us really, cause uh, it's a, it's a pivotal year for humanity, if it works.

• 1:27:15Tom Bilyeu?

  No doubt.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Thanks, huh?

• 1:27:16Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, everybody, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace. Let's talk about a pattern that is guaranteed to be killing your progress. You know what you need to do. You need consistent nutrition. We all do. You need vitamins, probiotics, greens. We all know that we should be doing more of it. When your morning gets chaotic, you skip it. When you travel, you skip it. When your routine breaks, everything tends to break. And that inconsistency compounds against you every single day. AG1 is designed to solve the execution problem. One scoop, eight ounces of water, and you're done. You're getting 75 plus ingredients, vitamins and minerals, pre and probiotics.

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