Jocko Underground: Proclaiming Victory Can Be A Trap

Proclaiming Victory Can Be A Trap. Going direct on an obnoxious person. Feeling inadequate in the dating market. The right decision: Follow your heart? Or Security? How do you measure up after one year of training? Jocko's opinion on waterboarding. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 111, triple ones, sitting here with Echo Charles. And me, Jocko Willink. I gotta, this is an admission of sorts, but there's a lesson to be learned, I believe.

• 0:16Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I am superstitious or paranoid because I go to a pretty extreme level of not counting chickens before they hatch. Alright, so what that means is, in my mind, I will not say, I almost said never, but I will very rarely, very rarely say something like, "Oh, we're definitely going to win." Or, "We are 100% gonna close this deal," or like, "This deal is done." In the bag. It's in the bag. I don't say that. I don't say that. And it's because I think they're a jinx. I think they're a jinx. I think they're a jinx.

• 0:59Jocko Willink?

  Do you know the etymology of the word jinx? I don't know it either.

• 1:05Jocko Willink?

  But, "Superstitious," right? Like, it's a jinx. We know what the jinx means. I don't know. I'm gonna look up where it comes from. But, here's the thing. I just don't think it's a jinx, like, "Ooh, you know, uh, what's that word?" Some mysterious jinx, like supernatural power. That's not what I think of. What I think of, it's a real jinx on the way that people think and the way that people act when they say, "We're definitely gonna win." When someone says that, there's a thousand little tiny changes that take place.

• 1:43Jocko Willink?

  And they're so, they're almost imperceptible. They're so small, little, little tiny changes in your attitude. Like, the way you present yourself, when you already think, "Oh, I'm 100% gonna win," the way you present yourself, a little bit different. A little bit different tone.

• 2:03Jocko Willink?

  Little bit of, a little bit less effort, right? Because we already think we're gonna win. Maybe your thoughts are different now. And that means your intent is different, and as we know, your intent has a smell.

• 2:19Jocko Willink?

  So we gotta watch out for that. I, I, we, in the books, we talk about, um, time we're training with, actually, I think it's in the books, but we teach it at our long front for sure. We're tasking a bruiser. We're going through close quarters combat training and the master chief that's running the training, great dude, and you know, I know him and our task unit's kicking ass. And we're doing a debrief after one of our runs through the house and he's like, dude, guys, you know what? This is the best task unit I've, I've seen come through here. And it's like on cue, the next run through the house sucked. It sucked. Why did it suck? Well, because, uh, you know, the 36 guys all had a little tiny change.

• 3:04Jocko Willink?

  A little tiny change in their attitude, a little tiny change in their focus, a little tiny change in cutting corners, a little tiny change in their attention level, just a little bit, because we're already there. We're the best. And as soon as you take 36 people, by the way, you're doing close quarters combat, you're working together as a team. And when everyone on the team is doing everything they can to, to win, it work, that, that all compounds itself. When everyone's not doing everything that they can to win, all that adds up to, that compounds as well.

• 3:42Jocko Willink?

  So, you know, I pulled the master chief aside, I was like, hey, dude, do not please ever say anything like that to the troop again. Like, you can't handle this. No one can handle this. So I'm not going to say this. Those words are not going to come out of my mouth. Now, this doesn't, this is not a lack of confidence.

• 4:01Jocko Willink?

  And you know, we did that, uh, podcast a while back where I was talking about the moment of execute, just prior to the moment of execution, I'm going to be a little bit cocky. I'm going to be, my confidence level's going to go high. Like if I'm getting ready, I just, I just was out hunting, was hunting whitetail out in Iowa. And you know, you're waiting in a tree stand or a blind for 14 hours a day. Waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. All of a sudden, boom. And actually, what it is, if it was all of a sudden, if it was, if it was in three seconds, you wouldn't have time to think about, but you got time to think about, like you're watching a buck come in. You have time, it takes, in this particular case for me, it was, the

• 4:43Jocko Willink?

  whole thing was probably over in a minute. Like, from the time I saw this buck come into our field of view, the whole, the shot was taken in probably forty-five seconds to a minute. Like, that's how long I had to think about it. But that's actually a long time. Like, you see it coming, he's two-hundred-and-eighty yards away, and he's walking down and looking around and walking down. So you know you're, the chances that you're taking a shot are pretty high, because he's walking in your direction. So you can definitely get into, like, a panic mode of like, and, and, and you actually can, there's a name for that. There's an actual name for it. Buck fever. You heard this name before, right?

• 5:17Speaker 01

  From you.

• 5:17Jocko Willink?

  Okay, yeah. Buck, it's a real thing that has a name. Has a name, because people freak out. I was talking to, who was I talking to? I was just talking to somebody, one of my archery buddies, and he was saying, like, he was getting ready to take a shot, and he was looking at the broadhead of his arrow, and he's just, like, shaking all over the place. He's freaking, just freaking out, dude, because that's what's happening. Now, when I saw that buck, right as he started to, like, walk in, I got into the mode of, like, total confidence. You know, just like, all right, I'm about to slay this thing. Like, this is what's happening. And not arrogance, but just, yep, I've got this. I, this is what I practice for. I didn't say all these things in my head, but I know, that's what

• 6:02Jocko Willink?

  I practice for. I take these shots all the time. This is what I do. Going to go through the protocol, and this, this thing is, is done. Same thing, the last, I didn't get an elk this year, but, well, I think it was last year, same thing. Like, I ranged this elk, he's at fifty-point-zero yards. I'm like, this thing is done. Like, there's no escape. This thing's going down. And, so you have that at that moment. It's not arrogance, because if you get arrogant, you won't go through your proper protocol. So, we talked about that on this podcast, where, in that moment, just before the moment of execution, I'm gonna get into a hell yeah. Scenario.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:41Jocko Willink?

  You know, hell yeah, this is going down.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:43Jocko Willink?

  Hell yeah, I can do this. Gonna go on, you're gonna do a presentation like to a group? You know, I'm not walking on the stage thinking, I hope they, I hope I do a good job. No, I'm walking the stage like I'm about to educate these people and teach them leadership, a lesson that they're gonna learn and it's gonna help everything that they're doing. Boom, that's how I'm rolling out. Hey, an hour prior, I'm looking at my notes, I'm going over my stuff, I'm making sure, you know what I mean? So I'm not getting cocky an hour before and definitely not a day before, but in the moment of execution, I'm gonna get a little bit cocky. But prior to that last, you know, putting your night vision goggles down, like when I put my night vision goggles down, it's on. I can't be stopped. Like I'm going to win.

• 7:23Jocko Willink?

  When I knock an arrow on my bow, it's going down. I am extremely confident at that point. When I'm getting ready, getting mic'd up to go to talk to people, yep, I, I'm ready. On a good day, on the mats of justice.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 7:41Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? Cause let's face it, sometimes you're like.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:46Jocko Willink?

  But on a good day, going in there like, that's probably the difference between a good day and a bad day. You're like going in there like, oh, I, I'm gonna give these people problems. I'm a problem. I'm a problem. I take that from Dean Lister, who uses that terminology. Dean will be like, if someone gets in this position here, it's a problem. And when Dean Lister says something's a problem, it's a real problem. So I don't wanna, I, I, I don't wanna overlook that fact. I'm not saying that this attitude is a lack of confidence.

• 8:20Jocko Willink?

  I know I can win. I know I can win. I know we can close this deal. I, I know we can make this happen, but it's not guaranteed. It's like we, here's, here's an example, not, oh, we're definitely gonna close this deal. It's, hey, we have a great opportunity, but we definitely have to execute properly. That's a world of difference. Hey, we need to stay on point to make sure we get this done right. These are all things, it's a small, little, tiny adjustment and it has a huge impact. Do not tell yourself that victory is assured. It never is.

• 9:01Jocko Willink?

  Till maybe you're about in the moment of execution, then you can be a little bit more confident, but up until that moment of execution. Until seven seconds before the moment or thirty seconds or one minute, right before execution, you should say to yourself, I'm gonna go crush this thing. Until then, stay humble. Stay on the path. There you go. That's what I got.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  I agree. Yeah, I heard you say that before. It's very useful, very good. Advice, if you will. So it's like, it's kind of like you, because I did that to myself, jam myself up. I think it added to my superstitions in high school. We're playing this Japan football team, by the way. And we're like, ah, they're from Japan. They don't really know football like we know, you know? And I remember saying out loud, right before the first kickoff, I was like, oh, it's over. And I remember saying that out loud, like to, you know, my friends were kind of around and we're, and I remember, because I never, I don't use that expression, oh, it's over, but I like said it or whatever. And I'm searching my feelings and I'm thinking like, I was kind of nervous at the time because there was so much unknown.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  They don't even speak English, you know, but for some reason, my brain arrived at like, these guys can't like beat us. They're like from Japan.

• 10:12Jocko Willink?

  We literally invented football.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. In fact, it's like a whole day of football and other places is soccer. Like they don't know about football like we know. And they just obliterated us like kind of bad too. Yeah, because they were doing all kinds of weird stuff. They were passing on first down, like they were just passing, then they beat us thirty to either zero or like thirty to six. It was bad. And I remember thinking, I know part of it was superstition, like because I said it was over, but you're, you're right about that though. It was kind of like, hey, I wasn't concerned with my, the preparation and I wasn't concerned with the execution. I was like almost concerned with when it's in the bag, the celebration almost kind of a part, the part, that part, you know?

• 10:53Jocko Willink?

  And you think and you take your whole team and they all take that effort and just, it loses a little bit of focus. Just a little bit of focus. Just a little bit of focus. Think about the things that you've done in your life that you got, you got it done. It took everything you had.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:10Jocko Willink?

  Whether it was like a tackle, whether it was a winning a jujitsu tournament, whatever it was, it took you everything. And if you didn't do that, you wouldn't have won.

• 11:22Jocko Willink?

  And now you had multiply that times the team, the whole team.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:27Jocko Willink?

  Then next thing you know, it's thirty six to zero or thirty thirty to six.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:31Jocko Willink?

  So don't let this happen. Do not, do not say it out loud. Is it superstitious? Yes, it is. Is it also factual? Yes, it is.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz it's like, it's like these little micro concepts creeping like, you know, and they're all mixed together, right? Where you got an element of complacency that comes in.

• 11:49Jocko Willink?

  Hundred percent.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  There's like an element of focus that you lose on the critical like moments, which moments, moment to moment, you know, like you were breaking it down into like, okay, there's preparation. Then there's a moment before execution where you gotta kinda in a way time that perfectly for it to really land. And yeah, so you're like taking away the focus off of the important part and putting it on the unimportant part, which is like the outcome that is determined on this execution part of it. So, you know, the outcome essentially takes care of itself when you focus on the execution part of it. Meanwhile, you're taking your focus off of it. It jams you up.

• 12:23Jocko Willink?

  And it's, it's most prevalent when it's a whole team. Because if it was like you and you're doing a jujitsu tournament and you like slack off for half a second and you get taken down, you're like, okay, I gotta square my shit away and you can step it up. No, it's not guaranteed. I don't recommend doing this even with individual efforts as well. But you multiply that times a team.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:45Jocko Willink?

  And it's a problem.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a problem. Yes, sir, it is.

• 12:49Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  All right, some Q and A.

• 12:52Jocko Willink?

  Yep, let's get to it.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Let's get to it. Okay, Jocko, I'm in, I'm a.

• 12:56Jocko Willink?

  That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jacohunderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize

• 13:41Jocko Willink?

  to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.