#80 John Lovell - Navy SEAL and Army Ranger Discuss What's Destroying America | Part 4

John Lovell is a former Army Ranger turned creator, homesteader and best-selling author. Lovell is the founder of the Warrior Poet Society, a values-based community geared towards training, preparedness, and spirituality. The final part of this series is all about Lovell's wisdom gained from fatherhood. Lovell and Shawn discuss the realties of parenting in a modern world, the value of having values, and how to carve a righteous path in dark times. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://gcu.edu/military John Lovell Links: Book — http://warriorpoetway.com Website — http://warriorpoetsociety.com X — https://twitter.com/johnlovell275 YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/c/johnlovell275 Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Shawn Ryan?

  Previously on The Sean Ryan Show. How do you reconcile the duality of being a Christian warrior? The balance of loving God and yet prepare for war and the removal of threats to human life?

• 1:16John Lovell?

  For this, I mean Ecclesiastes 3, there's a time to kill, time to heal.

• 1:24John Lovell?

  And so, there's a time to kill. The Bible says, "Do not murder." And this is a bad translation where we take the Ten Commandments and we take one of those commandments, "Thou shalt not kill." It's actually, "Thou shall not murder."

• 1:36Shawn Ryan?

  Let's go back to Iraq. You were there for the invasion.

• 1:43John Lovell?

  We had big army doing a big push-through. And we're grabbing high-value targets up as they kind of squirt. So it's a coordination. And I wasn't first boots on the ground, but I'm still early enough into Iraq where I could be like, "Yeah, I was there."

• 2:02Shawn Ryan?

  Is it heavy right off the bat?

• 2:05John Lovell?

  It was all up close. It was moving in urban terrain and kicking in palace doors.

• 2:15Shawn Ryan?

  How do you, how do you deal with loss? How did you overcome that?

• 2:20John Lovell?

  I don't think I've overcome loss any more than I've overcome fear. Some guys that were like my platoon, you know, and some of my buddies who got shot up. It's not this huge tragedy on their part. It is on ours who are left behind and missing them.

• 2:42Shawn Ryan?

  When was the Warrior Poet Society formed?

• 2:47John Lovell?

  I came to call it the Warrior Poet Way, you know, Warrior Poet Society. That was my own personal journey.

• 3:00Shawn Ryan?

  I wanted to touch on feminism.

• 3:03John Lovell?

  Sure.

• 3:03Shawn Ryan?

  And how it's affected society today. I have, I have opinions and things to say on this. Me and my wife actually discussed this quite a bit, but I would love to hear your take on how it's affected today's society.

• 3:16John Lovell?

  I think it's destroyed families, made men and women miserable.

• 3:22Shawn Ryan?

  I think that the feminist movement has created a lot of confusion in society as well. I mean, you go, it's, you don't really know where anybody fits in anymore, you know? Chivalry is dead.

• 3:38John Lovell?

  Yep.

• 3:39Shawn Ryan?

  Completely dead, you know? And I, I wish I would have known we were going to dive into this. I would have thought about this a little bit more, but you know, you see, it's in, it's in everything, you know? You don't know anymore whether you're supposed to open the door for a woman. One minute you might get yelled at for opening the door, the next minute you might get yelled at for not opening the door.

• 4:08John Lovell?

  I just do.

• 4:09Shawn Ryan?

  I always open the door, you know? But I, I mean, I see this stuff too, and I hear about it, you know? I mean, my wife right now, we're what? Seven months pregnant, you know?

• 4:22John Lovell?

  That's awesome.

• 4:23Shawn Ryan?

  Seven months pregnant. Half the time she goes to the store, nobody helps her with the groceries, nobody opens the door for her, nobody helps her load up the cart if she's at Home Depot and I'm at work, whatever it is. Chivalry is dead. And then... She comes home, we have a discussion about it. And this is what I, I'm like, nobody knows what to do anymore.

• 4:47John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you get yelled at for doing one thing. And you get yelled at if you don't do that one thing.

• 4:53John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 4:53Shawn Ryan?

  Like opening the door. And you, you, you know, and I, I can't tell if this is a. I can't tell if this is just the bubble that I live in. Or if it's like this everywhere, but from my observation, there seems to be. A new movement of. Kind of coming back to gender roles.

• 5:18John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Shawn Ryan?

  I see a lot of women, at least around here in the area that I live in, wanting to.

• 5:27Shawn Ryan?

  Leave the corporate world.

• 5:30Shawn Ryan?

  And get back to. Being the head of the family, you know, or, or, or raising the kids.

• 5:36John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Shawn Ryan?

  Homeschooling the kids. Just being there for the kids and, um, and, uh, are you saying that or is that just, is that just?

• 5:44John Lovell?

  A huge resurgence, homeschooling has just gone crazy. You know, millions and millions of folks were able to see what was happening in the government schools. Through the Corona scare. And in that they checked out and they're like, this is terrible. And they had to homeschool during the, um, pandemic. And what they found is, is oh, homeschool actually can be really enjoyable if you. Do it well and you're, you're smart and you do some homework and you figure out like, oh, this is how you do homeschool. I'm like, that's actually easier than I thought. It was really enjoyable. It turns out that people love their kids. It's kind of like, oh, this is great.

• 6:26John Lovell?

  And now I'm not spending massive amounts of money on childcare. And you get to actually raise your kids and you know what's going in their brains and. People found out that it was better. And now there's all these resources of like homeschool co-ops, homeschool movement has exploded. I'll be speaking at Homesteaders, oh, I'm sorry, Homesteaders of America, I'm doing that. But great homeschool conventions, that's it. GHC, Great Homeschool Conventions. They've got like five conferences next year from California to Ohio. And anyway, a few other, I think Missouri is one, South Carolina, that's four out of five. Not bad.

• 7:10John Lovell?

  But I'll be keynote speaking at all five of those great homeschool conventions in the next year. And I just say that to say, this is how invested I am in this. If you, if you want to rescue the next generation, we've got to take them out of government schools. Whatever it costs, go into debt if you have to. But, and I, I do not like that. So I, when I say that, that actually is a big sticky point for of like, bro, this is how important it is. Take your kids back from the government now, whatever the cost. I know it's hard, figure it out. Maybe you can't turn that key today. Make a plan over the next year to get them out of the government schools.

• 7:57Shawn Ryan?

  I agree with you. I think it was, it may have been Nick Friedas that was, that was saying it. You know, you, you could take a poll and ask just about everybody, doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on. Do you trust the government? How many people trust the government that you know?

• 8:18John Lovell?

  I had, I interviewed some people once, like recently, and somebody said that they did trust the government. I don't believe them, but that, I just like, but I have it on video on my channel where somebody said that. So I have to say, well, there was this one wing nut of a person who said they trust them. But your point remains, no one, no one trusts the government.

• 8:39Shawn Ryan?

  Point being, why would you trust your kids to be educated by the government?

• 8:43John Lovell?

  Right.

• 8:45John Lovell?

  Vody Bachmann said, uh, don't be surprised when you send your kids off to Caesar and they come back as Romans. That's it, that's it, man. You're wondering why everyone's gone woke and has no idea what bathroom to use anymore. Just if like, what happened to our kids? I'm like, well, you gave them to the government for, for their entire childhood. You saw them at dinner and you attended their sporting events, but the government raised your kids and social media helped and video games or whatever. But you saw them every day, but you didn't raise them.

• 9:26John Lovell?

  You didn't log enough hours each day to counteract all the poison and time wasting and ideological propagandistic crap that they were getting fed year after year after year. And so millennial generation and now Gen Z has gone woke. And we feel like, oh, what happened to my, my daughter? We raised them better than that. No. I mean this in love, but you didn't raise them at all.

• 10:00John Lovell?

  That hurts to say, cause I know it hurts people to hear, but the government raised them and that's what happened. Government and social media, um, hijacked a generation and we trusted that they were being taught good information that wasn't undermining our values. But there's been a psyop in play for decades, which is undermining our values and waging war against the family unit.

• 10:26Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think the goal is behind that?

• 10:28John Lovell?

  Control.

• 10:29Shawn Ryan?

  Control of everything?

• 10:32John Lovell?

  Yeah, I, I think the people in power want one thing. It's what all people in power have always wanted for all human history. The people in power want more power for longer.

• 10:43Shawn Ryan?

  Who do you think the people in power are?

• 10:46John Lovell?

  Um, I think a lot. One is the ones you see are the puppets. There are politicians there. Who's dangling those puppet strings higher off, uh, you know, if they think there's powerful, um, companies that you've had enumerated on this channel and, uh, billionaire, trillionaire types around that want to control in the shadows. Uh, so there's certainly players like that and you see their fingerprints everywhere. Um, with all the woke stuff that actually has a very formal funding mechanism behind it. It's not just a ground swell of what people want. It's actually being pushed from the top down on culture, forced on culture, quite literally

• 11:31John Lovell?

  in our school systems and in our corporations, it's being crammed in. And so you can't see that and not deny that there are, uh, folks who have really figured out over the last, uh, 50, 60, 70 years, how to perfect tyranny in a model that doesn't lead, uh, to some of the upsetting overthrows that their forebears, a Mussolini, Paul Pott, Mao, Hitler of like, they had the control that these globalists want, but they were also targets and they had uprisings against them. How do you control people without ever being a target and while

• 12:16John Lovell?

  giving them the feeling of collectivism so that they feel free, but they aren't free? Uh, Orwell thought, maybe it'll be by, uh, force, you'll do it. Uh, Aldous Huxley thought, no, you rule them through their desires, through dumbing them down by allowing them to entertain themselves to death. You can control them indefinitely. And so what they did is like, oh, we'll take some Orwell and we'll take some Huxley. We'll blend it together in a massive psyop so we can have, uh, massive amounts of power and control forever. The thing that would stand in the, uh, way of it, uh, a few things of like one, uh, religion. Religion is the thing that, you know, won't bend a knee. It will unreasonably not compromise.

• 13:01John Lovell?

  And so if you eliminate religion, people will worship politics. Uh, if, if, if you don't, if, if they ha- hold out religion, then there's something higher than politics that holds, uh, that politicians have to be, or world, uh, controllers have to, uh, bend the need to and, uh, and is in competition. That's why, uh, Marxism or any tyrannical communist system immediately moves to eradicate religion. Because totalitarian control cannot exist while there is a vibrant and widespread religious faith going on.

• 13:42Shawn Ryan?

  I think that's very hard for Western culture, Americans in particular, to wrap their head around.

• 13:48John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and, but, I mean, look at what's going on in North Korea.

• 13:53John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Shawn Ryan?

  You know, those people actually believe.

• 13:57John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 13:59Shawn Ryan?

  Kim Jong-un, or whatever his name, whatever is, whatever the new one's name is, Kim Jong-un, right? They think he's God.

• 14:09John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 14:10Shawn Ryan?

  They think Kim Jong-il was God. They think that, that, that is, the state is the religion.

• 14:16John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 14:17Shawn Ryan?

  That is the end all be all.

• 14:19John Lovell?

  Incredible.

• 14:20Shawn Ryan?

  You know?

• 14:21John Lovell?

  I, I, I think religion is something that, that they want to quell and destroy, and they, they've done a, a good job of that. Uh, also, I think, um, the family unit, the family unit is a bulwark against this progressive ideology, and so they've destroyed the family unit, uh, and they want to take over America's youth. If you, if, if you can take over the next generation and educate them up, uh, you can, you know, uh, you can force, you can get them to believe whatever you want to believe.

• 14:57John Lovell?

  You know, and so that's how you get the next generation is you train them for compliance. You demoralize them utterly, and that's happened to Gen Z. They are utterly demoralized. Another thing is you want to declaw the strong men. And so there needs to be a war on the family, there needs to be a war on masculinity, there needs to be a war on religion. And what do you see? You see all these very late in the game. Where all these institutions, for lack of a better word, are just barely limping, much less alive in the sociological structure that we see. This is very late in the game for America. The jury is out on whether we survive this because all of our institutions of power have been hijacked.

• 15:41John Lovell?

  The American people are now wide awake, hate all this, but without any of our institutions of power, it's kind of like, look, more corruption. Anybody gonna do anything about it? Anybody? No, no one's doing anything about it? Who's let it slide? Okay, we're letting it slide. But you should do something about it. They're guilty, they're corrupt. And we're just shouting into the wind. Nothing changes because it's all super corrupt. And our institutions of power have been hijacked. So it's very interesting time. I do not know how this is gonna play out. The optimistic part of me.

• 16:22Shawn Ryan?

  Is dying.

• 16:23John Lovell?

  Yeah, it still dares to hope a little bit. I'm glad my hope is in a different world.

• 16:33John Lovell?

  Than this fallen rock. I'm glad that's where my ultimate faith and joy and hope is. Because there's just not a lot to be found here. But still, while this place is my home, here and now, I'll go down fighting for it. Yeah.

• 16:57Shawn Ryan?

  What does?

• 17:01Shawn Ryan?

  I think we're very similar in this. Hmm. I'm a little pessimistic. Yeah. I don't see.

• 17:12Shawn Ryan?

  I don't really see a realistic way out of this.

• 17:17Shawn Ryan?

  But there are some things, you know, that, that, that.

• 17:22Shawn Ryan?

  Being honest, I think about this all the time. Yeah, man. It just consumes me. Yeah. Uh, because, you know, I gotta be honest, I don't really care

• 17:34Shawn Ryan?

  for what I have to endure anymore. Cause I don't think this is going away, but it does really bother me that my kid's gonna have to live in this shit. Yeah. You know, and um, so I am always looking for some type of hope. What, what? Is there anything particular, maybe anything that you've ginned up in your head? I brought some stuff up about advertising. That's my latest. Maybe that's gonna get the hope and I'll go into that in a minute, maybe, but. Advertising, what do you mean? Well, you know, we were talking last night at dinner. Yeah. We were talking about, we were talking about, I believe, the woke agenda. Right. And how, you know, I don't think we need to go through it all again. Um, but

• 18:20Shawn Ryan?

  on here, but you know, the, the genders, everything, everything you see, you know, is is backwards. Yeah. What's down is up, what's up is down, what's black is white, you know, the deal. And

• 18:35Shawn Ryan?

  we got to talking about companies, BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street. You know, in, in, in numbers. We did have this conversation. Yes, we did. Last night, correct? You know, and when I. Think maybe, maybe a glimmer of hope is you are, we are all watching in real time the demise of mainstream media. Yeah. It is coming apart. Uh, um. Fast. Yeah, man. Ever since 2020, mainstream media is falling apart at a record pace. Very fun. Their numbers, their numbers are down, but they still have big advertisers. Yeah.

• 19:16Shawn Ryan?

  Golden Globe Awards, Grammy Awards, all these big celebrity events that I never watched them, but a lot of people, you know, are enamored with this, these type of award ceremonies and in, in the lives of celebrities and nobody watches it anymore. No, I know. So it is so bad that a lot of the celebrities, a lot of the actors, a lot of the, the, the musicians, they don't even go to the award ceremonies anymore because they don't want to spend the money on the fashion, the makeup, the hair, the, the time that it takes to go to receive the award, the award, because they know nobody's even watching them. Yeah.

• 20:01Shawn Ryan?

  Not to mention, they know that it's not about the best actor anymore. It's about whatever the current agenda is. Yeah. Those numbers are dropping. Sports numbers have fallen off a cliff. Yeah. NBA down, NFL down, MLB down, you know, and late night TV, everything is so politicized that nobody, and nobody trusts anything anymore, you know? The, the, all the late night shows, numbers are down. You know, I just had a, a, a meeting with, with, um.

• 20:38Shawn Ryan?

  A, I don't know what you're calling, an, an agency, like a, kind of like a agent or a management agency. And, um, we were kind of going over some, some of my numbers and they were saying, you know, look, if you look at some of these late night shows, they're only getting two or 300,000 viewers a day. Wow. You know, some of these shows have four or five million views. Yeah. You know, and so where I'm getting at is you see mainstream media, numbers falling off the cliff, sports, numbers falling off the cliff, movies, when's the last time you went to a movie? Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 5:55 in 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 21:49Shawn Ryan?

  I, I can't even remember. Top Gun 2. Yeah. Actually, same, same thing. That's about it. And there was no agenda. Yeah. You know, I did go see Sound of Freedom, but... I saw that too, and everyone should go, everyone should go see that movie. Be like, I've already seen it, go see it again. Yeah. But point being, all these numbers are falling everywhere. All the stuff that we used to watch, it is, the numbers have been cut in half, maybe even more. Advertisers want, they need to be seen. You know, Ford trucks, they can only pay, you know, they can only pay that, those, those major dollars for so much longer before they realize, nobody's seeing the advertisement

• 22:34Shawn Ryan?

  because you ruined the network. Yeah. With your agenda. Yeah. Where are the numbers going? They're going to... YouTube channels like yours, YouTube channels like mine, podcasts.

• 22:46John Lovell?

  YouTube robs me blind, bro. So no doubt YouTube is making money off me. They're just not giving it to me.

• 22:53Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not gonna argue with that, but what I'm, but what I am saying is now there's this, now there is this demand and this need for that type of content.

• 23:02John Lovell?

  Yeah, right.

• 23:03Shawn Ryan?

  You know, because it's not scripted, it's not filtered, you know, it's real, it's vulnerable. That's what's drawing in the numbers. It's truth.

• 23:14John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 23:14Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and eventually I think that there, I hope that there may be some type of a possibility where these advertisers come to this realization and they're going, wait, hold on. We're paying all this money for no numbers and this stuff over here, the, the fringe content is what has all the numbers. Eventually, if they want anybody to buy the shit that they're peddling, they're gonna have to go to where the people are.

• 23:39John Lovell?

  I hope so. I hope so. This all is so far above my pay grade. Uh, but I would really like that to be true. The more pessimistic uh, part of me might, may say of like, yeah, but what if those globalists, what if State Street and Vanguard and Blackguard? They're so, they're so wildly rich, uh, doing market manipulation stuff. They don't actually need Bud Light or Target or Disney to do well. They don't actually care. They don't need it. They can generate all the money they want in a myriad of different ways that they don't care. And so money isn't real.

• 24:18John Lovell?

  They, they've gotten so much control and power and into everything, just monopoly over kind of everything that they've got it all. And so they can afford to lose what to us would look like billions and to them, it's kind of like, no, just shuffle on the deck. Who knows? What their balance sheet actually looks like, uh, but maybe it's just reshuffling the deck for them and they're like, nope, we're a, we're here to get more power and control. We're paying billions of dollars in losses over this to push this kind of agenda, which demoralizes and ultimately gives us the whole kit, kit and caboodle in 10 years.

• 24:58John Lovell?

  Of like, they're fine to lose billions when they're gonna get trillions and trillions of like, no, no, we're buying your country.

• 25:06Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 25:07John Lovell?

  You know, we're fine to let these brands tank. Because the ideology we're pushing through allows us to literally take over countries. And so, hmm, I hope that's not true. Again, this is all just speculation based off data points and things that people I've heard that I feel like these guys have decoded the matrix. If what they're saying is true, then this. And so it's my own working out of that a priori. So.

• 25:38Shawn Ryan?

  Well, is there anything that does bring you hope? That's, that's just my latest, hmm, maybe, maybe, I mean, this is what I think about.

• 25:44John Lovell?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 25:45Shawn Ryan?

  All of these, these things.

• 25:47John Lovell?

  Absolutely.

• 25:48Shawn Ryan?

  What brings you?

• 25:49John Lovell?

  Because when I'm done watching everything through social media and the television screen, just going completely the wrong way. I go home to my little farm and I greet my smiling wife and I play with my children. And we go down and maybe we ride some horses and then we read a book before going to bed. And we have a good dinner and none of that stuff falling apart touches my sweet family time. And my friend circles and the church I go to back home and

• 26:29John Lovell?

  there is still opportunity right now to have a really full, vibrant, peaceable, sane life in your home and in your community. You can make your own, your own community with friends and family that isn't buying into all this stuff. And so whereas I visit the world, I check in and I engage in the fight to make it better. Because this is, this, I'm a part of this world. But when I am done with that, I go to my own little homestead and I hang out with my family and then I see my friends.

• 27:10John Lovell?

  And we go on, me and my wife go on dates and we go through walks in the woods. Right now, the economy is in shambles and we're, you know, everyone's feeling the squeeze or spending less. And so, hey, we'll go on some walks. That's not expensive. You can't tax that yet. And so, uh, yet, yet.

• 27:32John Lovell?

  But yeah, there's some hope there. And a lot of folks are struggling with real bad anxiety and mental health. And it's because they're not unplugging from all the bad news and they're carrying that home with you. And it's just too heavy, too much, too ubiquitous. You've got to be able to leave it at the door and have a life outside that still, let's enjoy freedom while we have it. And then, let's fight for it too. But you gotta make some boundaries for yourself, man, or you're just not gonna make it.

• 28:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm with you. Let's talk about your YouTube career.

• 28:07John Lovell?

  Sure.

• 28:08Shawn Ryan?

  What? So you started the Warrior Poet Society. It originally was training, correct?

• 28:18John Lovell?

  It was YouTube videos.

• 28:19Shawn Ryan?

  It started as a YouTube.

• 28:20John Lovell?

  Started as YouTube videos.

• 28:23Shawn Ryan?

  What was your first video?

• 28:25John Lovell?

  It was just me shooting some targets real quick on a range. Ta ta ta ta. You know, that's it. That was for mine. But I went on someone else's even before that. You know James Jaeger?

• 28:38Shawn Ryan?

  I do.

• 28:38John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 28:40Shawn Ryan?

  I never met him personally.

• 28:41John Lovell?

  Okay, well, it's a shame. He had an online persona and then there was the man, James Jaeger, who is a personal friend and I loved deeply. All the virtues and vices of any military grunt or SWAT team dude. You'd have loved him. But anyway, he got me on his YouTube channel. And he thought I did a really good job. And he says, hey, man, you should do this. And I'm like, what, just record myself doing what? He's like, whatever you want.

• 29:16John Lovell?

  I'm like, whatever I want? He's like, yeah, man. But you should do this. I'm like,

• 29:22John Lovell?

  all right, maybe I'll do this. And, you know, I'm a, I'm a man with a message of like, I want to communicate for life change. That's what I want. I want to communicate for life change. I want a journey. Love to be able to document that and bring people along. So I just kind of did that. You know, I just, here's my reflections. Here is my thoughts. Here's a war story. Here's me shooting. And I just kind of threw all kinds of stuff against the wall. And, you know.

• 29:51John Lovell?

  Not easy to, yeah, see what sticks, but I was documenting my own warrior poet journey. Right? And so it struck a chord and people started following and then it kind of blew up. It turns out people wanted to grow simultaneously in these areas. Because what I saw is this big gap in the internet. And that's where everyone's kind of like a lover or a fighter. And the fighters don't really talk about husbandry or kids or, you know, being an actual, you know, sane, normal, real person.

• 30:34John Lovell?

  You're the thousand yard stare, steely eyed killer. SWAT operator, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm so dangerous. We're all special operation, blah, blah. So, but it was this chess beating bravado. Or it's this, you know, sweetie pie thing. And I'm like, no, no, no, I want to do both. I want to be a lover and a fighter. I'm on that journey. Where, who embodies that? Who is out there that I can follow that's on that journey? And I'm like, you know, there is not a lot.

• 31:10John Lovell?

  Well, I'll just start walking down this road and maybe some people want to join in. And they did, and it grew.

• 31:18Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I got to compliment you. There are so many, I 100% agree with you too, on the, on the, on the fighter stuff.

• 31:24John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 31:25Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, and I, when I started this, I noticed that so many people become a character.

• 31:37John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Shawn Ryan?

  You know, it's not authentic at all. And then you start seeing them get tired of being that character. Because it becomes exhausting.

• 31:47John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Shawn Ryan?

  Because you become that character. Everywhere you go, people expect you to be that character.

• 31:53John Lovell?

  Right.

• 31:53Shawn Ryan?

  And one thing that I got at dinner last night with you is you are the exact same person that I see online, talking.

• 32:05Shawn Ryan?

  You're a very authentic, genuine.

• 32:08Shawn Ryan?

  Humble human being and with a massive online presence.

• 32:14John Lovell?

  Thanks, man.

• 32:14Shawn Ryan?

  In a huge business and you know, you just don't. You don't run into that very often.

• 32:21John Lovell?

  I could say the same thing about you, which pisses me off a bit because we really should have got together years ago. We talked about, we agreed, hey, we should hang out and at the time you had alpacas and a Brussels Griffon.

• 32:35Shawn Ryan?

  I did.

• 32:35John Lovell?

  Ridiculous little dogs, little gremlins and we did too. And I'm like, bro. Former door kicker, you got the funny little dog, you got the alpaca. Surely this means we should hang out and be buddies, but I think you just got busy and so did I. But what I'm embarrassed at is you're not far away from me.

• 32:56Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't realize you were that close.

• 32:58John Lovell?

  Me neither. Better late than never, never. Better late than never, but I feel like I lost time with you, you know? We could have been homies.

• 33:07Shawn Ryan?

  It's all good. We are now.

• 33:08John Lovell?

  We are now.

• 33:09Shawn Ryan?

  But I will say, you know, I don't know if you feel this, but a lot of times, and it's funny, nobody thinks this because.

• 33:19Shawn Ryan?

  This channel started as kind of a gun tuber channel and, and then when I started the, the podcast, it was all. It was all military guys and then in, in, but I'll be honest, you know, a lot of, it's almost to the point where if you are a.

• 33:37Shawn Ryan?

  From the special operations community, that's a, almost a strike against you. It's like, I don't know if I want to.

• 33:44John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Shawn Ryan?

  I probably am not going to get along with this person. It's going to be extremely competitive and.

• 33:50John Lovell?

  Not tedious.

• 33:51Shawn Ryan?

  It is.

• 33:52John Lovell?

  Like what, bro, why we gotta compete? How about this? You win.

• 33:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:57John Lovell?

  You're the dangerous, super secret squirrel sniper ninja. And I'm not, so way to go. Now we can just move on.

• 34:06Shawn Ryan?

  Can we be friends now?

• 34:08John Lovell?

  You mean, is that, do you mean that it's hard to just be friends because there's always that kind of rivalry? Or is it hard to interview them? Or what do you mean?

• 34:18Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not talking about the guys that I interview.

• 34:20John Lovell?

  Okay.

• 34:20Shawn Ryan?

  I'm talking about, I mean. I mean, you have to get this too, because you have such a big platform, you know, you get. It, it should be them. It should be them that trained. Whoever it should be them that has that platform, it should be them that's fell on the courses and and then there's like it like I had mentioned earlier, special operations. What is it? I mean, everything from day one, you said it as well, is a competition. You and Ranger Battalion, it's earning your keep and and every single day.

• 34:55John Lovell?

  Right.

• 34:56Shawn Ryan?

  Wondering if you're good enough to be there.

• 34:58John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Shawn Ryan?

  And and that carries over. I think we all have a common enemy. Obviously, we have a common enemy when we're in, you know, in in in an environment or a profession like that. But then when you take that common enemy out, we turn on ourselves.

• 35:15John Lovell?

  Yeah, that that's perfectly said. I don't pay attention to a lot of it. It'd be hard for me. I'm not cruising checking in on what gripe anybody had typically. I'm not I'm not just searching for that stuff. And so I'm not consuming a lot of that content. So maybe some of those guys really like me. Some of them really hate me. Maybe they don't care. I don't really know their attitude and disposition.

• 35:43Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:43John Lovell?

  Um, on purpose, I'm not interested. I know what I'm doing. I know I'm providing a good service for a certain part, you know, certain part. I'm after soccer dads, you know, for lack of a better. I'm after average Joes who are, I want to be a good dad, I want to work well, and I'd like to make a few small steps to be a little bit better protector. I'm like, I like you. You're my bro. Let's hang out. Let's do gun stuff.

• 36:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:10John Lovell?

  Um, and so that's who I'm after. And I'll let all the operating guys operate operationally to, you know, make ninjas out of everyone else.

• 36:21Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:22John Lovell?

  And I'll just be over here doing my thing. And if you hate me for it, I get it.

• 36:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:28John Lovell?

  Sometimes they don't like me very much either. So I'm sympathetic. I get it. I get it. I get it.

• 36:33Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's get back to your channel. So what did the channel develop into? I know you've taken some turns throughout your your your career.

• 36:42John Lovell?

  Yeah. So I really pressed into more teaching tactics and this is how you shoot and this is how you, you know, can clear rooms and here's some flashlight reviews and here's some kit reviews. And I was doing that at a time where there was a gear boom going on and a training boom. Uh, this was before politics had swallowed up all other avenues of life. Now, since that time, politics ate everything. So even if you talk about something as benign as the weather, well, climate change, can't do that of like, there's the science, which science was science, no, science TM, you know, Anthony Fauci, he is the science.

• 37:24John Lovell?

  You have like, uh, all the science stuff of, man, there's not a single area of life that hasn't been gobbled up by politics. And so when I saw that move, uh, and I saw, uh, big moves being made against first and second amendment, I'm like, all right, my days on this platform are numbered. I saw algorithm switches over, namely September 2017 algorithm switch over by YouTube. Uh, you know, that, that's the move hugely against the gun world. So all of a sudden, our analytics just fell off a cliff. And if you were small, gun channel, good luck getting big because that door kind of shut. Uh, and I was already

• 38:08John Lovell?

  like a hundred thousand followers. So I kind of made the cutoff. So I was able to grow and keep growing, but I was growing leaps and bounds. And then the adpocalypse happened, the algorithm rewrite. And then my analytics just crashed. I can literally look back in my lifetime analytics and see every time they made an algorithm change. Um, and so right now, uh, though I'm many times bigger, making far more views, my money from YouTube is 2018 level.

• 38:43Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 38:45John Lovell?

  So they hate me that bad?

• 38:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I think I'm heading down that road as well.

• 38:51John Lovell?

  Yeah, and it's because um, when everything went political, I'm, I hate, I hate politics. I hate it and I don't like politicians either, you know, like people have like, John, run for office. How about no? How about never? No way. The Lord would have to call me to it.

• 39:09Shawn Ryan?

  You've never considered it?

• 39:11John Lovell?

  I have considered it and I, after considering, I'd be like, hey, no way. I do not want that. I get it that it's, it is a way to make millions of dollars, broker a lot of power and get a lot of, you know, uh, recognition and limelight. The problem is, is I don't care enough about those things. Those are not good carrots for me. I would rather live far more simply and I like the sphere of influence I'm already operating in. I like that I have no constituents or handlers. I'm beholden to no one. I can say whatever I want and yeah, the algorithm's gonna punish me and eventually put me out of business. Um, but I have to stay the warrior poet.

• 39:57John Lovell?

  I'm gonna be true to who I am, how I built, what our message is.

• 40:02Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you.

• 40:02John Lovell?

  And I hope, uh, that our big tech overlords will allow us to continue to have uh, free speech and that they wouldn't rig the deck to our ultimate destruction. But right now I'm in the problem of they just don't notify my subscribers when I post videos.

• 40:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:20John Lovell?

  That's the big, that, that's it. I'm like, great, rob me blind, take my money, do whatever you want. But if people ask you to notify them when I post a video, please notify them. And they won't do that. My wife is subscribed, notifications bell on. She never gets notifications when I post videos. You know, and this happens many times. I'm just saying, my own wife can't get a notification for my channel. And she is supportive. She, she didn't really care about some of the content that I make, but she loves me and maybe I'll say a silly joke and maybe I'll give her a little cutesy flirty shout out sometimes, because I do that all the time. I'm, I'm getting kinda, I'm kinda sweet on her, you know?

• 41:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:01John Lovell?

  And so anyway, she's supportive, but she doesn't get those notifications. And so. And YouTube isn't nearly as bad as like Instagram. Instagram is the worst for shadow banning.

• 41:16Shawn Ryan?

  I want to tell you about this business venture I've been on for about the past seven, eight months. And it's finally come to fruition. I've been hell bent on finding the cleanest functional mushroom supplement on the planet. And that all kind of stemmed from the psychedelic treatment I did. Came out of it, got a ton of benefits, haven't had a drop of alcohol in almost two years. I'm more in the moment with my family. And that led me down researching the benefits of just everyday functional mushrooms. And I started taking some supplements, I found some coffee replacements, I even repped a brand. And, you know, it got to the point where I just wanted the finest ingredients available.

• 42:00Shawn Ryan?

  No matter where they come from. And it got to this point where I was just gonna start my own brand. And so we started going to trade shows and looking for the finest ingredients. And in doing that, I ran into this guy, maybe you've heard of him. His name's Laird Hamilton. And his wife Gabby Reese. And they have an entire line of supplements with all the finest ingredients. And we got to talking. Turns out, they have the perfect functional mushroom supplement. It's actually called Performance Mushrooms. And this has everything.

• 42:43Shawn Ryan?

  It's USDA organic, it's got chaga, cordyceps, lion's mane, miyataki. This stuff is amazing for energy balance, for cognition. Look, just being honest, I see a lot of people taking care of their bodies. I do not see a lot of people taking care of their brain. This is the product, guys. And so, we got to talking and our values seemed very aligned. We're both into the functional mushrooms. And after a lot of back and forth, I am now a shareholder in the company.

• 43:22Shawn Ryan?

  I have a small amount of ownership and I'm just, look, I'm just really proud to be repping and be a part of the company that's making the best functional mushroom supplement on the planet. You can get this stuff at layered superfoods.com. You can use the promo code SRS, that'll get you 20% off these performance mushrooms, or anything in the store. They got a ton of good stuff. Once again, that's layered superfoods.com, use the promo code SRS, that gets you 20% off. You guys are gonna love this stuff, I guarantee it.

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• 44:37Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

• 44:58John Lovell?

  And Twitter's kind of touch and go, but Twitter's the freest place I know of. That is public square large. There's all kinds of these other platforms. I'm like, yeah, you're like, John, you should get on Rumble. I've been on Rumble for years. You're like, get on Rumble. No, I'm there. You just don't see me, watch me, or find me. I'm there.

• 45:18Shawn Ryan?

  I get that too.

• 45:20John Lovell?

  And someone, yep, I'm there. And the fact that everyone keeps telling me to get on Rumble proves to me that Rumble is not the place to be. It's still the largest search engine in the world without anything even remotely close to the, in second place. YouTube and Google. It is the internet.

• 45:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. You know, I wanted to give you props as well because we, and we had spoken about this last night as well, but you know, you are one of the...

• 45:50Shawn Ryan?

  Few people from our community that

• 46:02Shawn Ryan?

  made a pivot around 2020, 2021 timeframe. Yeah. And that pivot, what I'm talking about is you standing up for what you believe in, standing up for your core values. You appeared to have, maybe not put your business on hold, but you, you, you made a major pivot, knowing that it was a, that

• 46:32Shawn Ryan?

  there could be some serious consequences and to your business. And, um, and I made that pivot. Yeah. I saw you make that pivot, um, maybe before me, maybe it was right about the same time. Yeah. But, um, there's not very many people that I saw made the pivot. And, you know, I had, I had around that time period, I had made a pivot as well. You know, I'd gotten, I'd gotten out of guns and tactics, got into podcasting, started taking the podcast uh, very seriously. And then I, and from a multitude of reasons, uh, one being censorship of the

• 47:17Shawn Ryan?

  second amendment genre.

• 47:22Shawn Ryan?

  I'm no longer willing to compromise. Yeah. You know, and, and

• 47:28Shawn Ryan?

  I, I, I just, I see these.

• 47:33Shawn Ryan?

  There's just so many people that all they care about is the money. Yeah. And in their business and their growth. And it's, it's like, man, I'm going to tell you something, buddy. You know, if you don't start sticking up for what you believe in, because that inspires others to do the same, you're not going to have a business. Yeah. You're not going to have an income stream. And, and now fast forward, and I want to talk to you about this. I mean, I, I think, I think this entire thing is done. I think, I think YouTube will be obsolete within the next five years. Wow. I think. I mean, and one, I think people like me and you will just be deleted, never to be

• 48:17Shawn Ryan?

  heard from again. But on top, but it doesn't end there. I mean, on top of, on top of these companies agendas, there's artificial intelligence that is just taking over everything.

• 48:29John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 48:29Shawn Ryan?

  And, and we talk about deep fakes and, and, and

• 48:33John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 48:34Shawn Ryan?

  Stuff that's happening. I mean,

• 48:37Shawn Ryan?

  there's already technology that could have a fake you and a fake me having this exact conversation. And it's becoming more and more realistic every day.

• 48:49John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and I, I do, I believe in the, I mean, that's part of what the Hollywood strike is about. You know, they don't need writers anymore. They don't need actors. They can do animes and, and it's all, I mean, it was a good run.

• 49:04John Lovell?

  How crazy would it be to, let's say, in a few years down into our dystopian future, we're careening toward, they delete you and I, and they have an AI avatar that looks like us, and they script us and tilt us more left.

• 49:23Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:23John Lovell?

  So basically of like, you think, you think that Sean Ryan, who just walked away from his faith and endorsed, you know, Hunter Biden, who's running for president and kicking tail. So some people are like, stop.

• 49:41Shawn Ryan?

  No, nobody cuts that segment.

• 49:43John Lovell?

  I hate this. This is gone. I hate this. I hate this future. Delete back. Next video. But of like, to literally supplant us with an AI digital whatever, to borrow on past credibility and people don't know. You know, like, and meanwhile, we're rotting away in solitary confinement forever with January 6th.

• 50:05Shawn Ryan?

  No, man, I hope not. But, you know, I mean, that's just where I see this going. You know, every, I mean, we saw, we were talking, that was me and my wife discussing this this morning, but you know, it was eight tracks, cassette tapes, DVDs, or CDs, DVDs, MP3s. Now, I don't even know what we call them, streaming services and in. I mean, YouTube's been around for a while. It's going to become obsolete eventually.

• 50:33John Lovell?

  Hmm.

• 50:34Shawn Ryan?

  And I think I A's AI is going to be the what takes it out, you know?

• 50:37John Lovell?

  AI is this big wild card where I can make, I can make general guesses on what's going to happen. And I don't have that prophetical kind of gift, not in the capital P biblical spiritual prophet kind of sense, but to, to figure out what's coming like Orwell, George Orwell, amazing ability to, to kind of predict out what's going to happen of like, I, I don't have that impulse. Uh, but I can imagine some of it with AI. It's uncharted. I have no idea where that's going. Uh, but it does look like the most powerful tool for control ever conceived and created by man.

• 51:19John Lovell?

  That to me looks more dangerous than a nuclear bomb by far. Um, and so I don't know how that's shaken up, but if you already don't trust the would be uh, powers that be, you give them that a perfect mechanism to manipulate, propagandize and control the world and all the flow of information. That's bad, but you could imagine a world where you, people just finally, I'm off the internet. Here's my community and we're homesteading. They're just done and I'm moving that direction really.

• 51:54Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 51:55John Lovell?

  Uh, it's been one little decision at a time without this big referendum of it's all going to die and you need to, you know, rewind the clock a hundred years and live as a homesteader of like, no, but we've just been, you know, a little bit over time doing that homestead life and investing in local community and we like that. It's a healthier life and it makes us feel freer and it's healthy for our sons to grow up, you know, taking care of chickens and, and uh, herding cattle and driving our side by side through the woods and, you know, playing with some guns and we have our own little spot carved out.

• 52:39John Lovell?

  It's nothing huge, nothing fancy. It's simple little farmhouse, but that's ours. That this is ours. And so.

• 52:47John Lovell?

  At some point, you're just kind of like, what I'm gaining from plugging into the matrix every day is not worth what it's costing me. And you just unplug and you're done. And then you got to figure out still, well, how do I make a living? And that's going to be different with AI and this brave new world. But I wonder if the whole idea of homesteading is this self sufficiency. What if I got myself to a place where my skills and my resources around me were at such a place that I no longer required wealth?

• 53:28John Lovell?

  What do you use wealth for? Well, you buy food and you buy, you know, things, you pay bills and you're caught. What if, what if you're kind of more self-contained right there, you know, you grow some food, you slaughter a cow every once in a while, you shoot a deer, uh, you kind of hold up there, you barter and trade a bit. You got a little money for XYZ. I don't know if I, I'm trying to live more and more simply. I'd like to no longer require wealth as if to get some huge nest egg, kick my feet up and, you know, make trips back and forth to Tahiti every once in a while while I live in

• 54:07John Lovell?

  a mansion. That's so far gone from my purpose. That's not, that was the goal, you know, a decade ago for me. That's retirement. I never planned to retire now. I'm always going to be adding value somewhere, somehow, and I want to live humbly and simply. And I just want to be left alone.

• 54:27Shawn Ryan?

  Do you feel better now than you did when that was your, when, when you had the mansion Tahiti goal?

• 54:32John Lovell?

  Yeah, much, much better. We have a simple little farmhouse on our own little homestead and we're very content and happy there.

• 54:38Shawn Ryan?

  Was that your wife's goal as well?

• 54:40John Lovell?

  My wife was, my wife was raised extremely poor. She had no idea how poor she was. In a very small town, in a very poor area, uh, she was on free lunch. You know, she's just dirt poor. Tiny little house she lived in. I love that about my wife. I think it built character for her in a real cool way. And she is just easier to please and she's been broke with me before. We have been absolutely broke and then deeply in debt. Uh, and we had to climb out of that and that was awful. And me and her, we, we've been through the wringer together.

• 55:23John Lovell?

  And, um, now one thing that is a requirement is we're still generous. You know, we may be, you know, and we're not living like paupers by any means of like, we got some creature comforts. We, we, we spend some money, you know, but I mean, like, uh, the goal is to live and I think we've been good stewards of this. We live below our means by a good shot, uh, and I'd like to do even more. Um, and I think that's the way to travel. It's, uh, stop buying the big houses and the big cars and leveraging yourselves to death. You, that's not the way the world is going. We need to be leaning up. Uh, we are, we need to lean, we need to run far leaner than we are.

• 56:08John Lovell?

  And you'd be content with less. Stop chasing that carrot. It's going to kill you. Uh, and the, when the music stops, you're not going to have a place to sit.

• 56:18Shawn Ryan?

  It's a good way to put it.

• 56:21Shawn Ryan?

  I guess kind of what I was getting at was when, when you're,

• 56:27Shawn Ryan?

  when your goal changed, when you went from let's, let's amass this huge amount of money, this big nest egg, to be able to do whatever we want to. I mean, how did that, how did that happen? Did you just come home one day and you're like, this is a new plan.

• 56:45Shawn Ryan?

  You're going to lean up, work less, you know, more family time. We don't need all this money.

• 56:53John Lovell?

  So I don't know that I ever dreamed of having this huge amount of money or something. It was just kind of the default setting for all Americans.

• 57:00Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:00John Lovell?

  That's what we expect. You make a huge amount of money so that at a certain age you can retire and you live pretty well, very well, or extremely well based off that for the rest of your life. You do some vacations, you get to Winnebago and you do your thing, you know? And so margaritas on the beach and whatnot. And that's just kind of, I think the neurological rut, that's the default setting for a lot of Americans. Um, it was a pandemic kind of stuff that was the scare and I realized how dependent we were on our grocery stores for our food and we're all, we're all on top of each other.

• 57:42John Lovell?

  And I didn't have actually any skills of I don't know how to grow food or, you know, deal with chickens or anything like that of like, uh, all of our money is in the bank account for what we, you know, what we have and of like, we're locked in these neighborhoods and big cities and COVID was a little bit of experiment and how self-sufficient are you? People found out of like, I'm hopelessly dependent of, all of a sudden, there's this nationwide run on toilet paper and then it's gone. Toilet paper? What?

• 58:18John Lovell?

  Really? That's the thing. And then, and then the gas stations empty out. Yeah. Uh, that's happened a couple of times, you know, over the last decade or so. The, all of a sudden, huge gas lines and then the, these gas stations are out. Like, what? Uh, and then grocery stores, just empty of food. You know, like so much stuff gone and not replenished. And whether it's our power grid or whether it's our food distribution network, which all these systems are extremely fragile. I don't know, you know, maybe, maybe nothing ever really happens bad. But I just realized I would like to be able to be in a little bit more control over it. Uh, and I think, and really the solution was is

• 59:03John Lovell?

  homesteading and homesteading is a natural shift in priorities and it's a natural, um, reorientation in, uh, moving from lavish, uh, lifestyle and that carrot to something that is forcibly more pragmatic, something practical. We will grow this amount of food and see how that goes. By the way, we suck at growing food. We've killed everything.

• 59:34John Lovell?

  We're getting better, but we're still bad. But like you get some chickens, well, a third of your meals are covered for the rest of the year. You just get some freaking chickens, man. Uh huh. A third of your meals.

• 59:47John Lovell?

  You got it for the rest of the, for ad infinitum, you know? It's like, hey, that seems like a good idea. I'll get some cows now. And we just literally, right before I came here, uh, yesterday, or the day before, we loaded a quarter cow into our deep freezer. You know, so we have cows and we breed them and then.

• 1:00:08Shawn Ryan?

  We eat them.

• 1:00:09John Lovell?

  And then we eat them.

• 1:00:11Shawn Ryan?

  Congratulations. How's that feel? Is that the first one?

• 1:00:15John Lovell?

  No, uh-oh. So we've been doing this for a couple of years, but what I'll do is I'll sell, you know, uh, X number of cows. Uh, this year I've sold five cows. And I'll do that at the stockyard and then I'll buy someone else's cow. So that we, as a family, don't sit down and eat Mrs. Moo, who we used to pet. So some folks would be like, bro, that is, that is spineless of you. You should be eating your own. And I'll be like, maybe so. But I took the coward's route out.

• 1:00:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:47John Lovell?

  So my nine-year-old doesn't cry while he bites into that delicious hamburger. So, uh, we sold some cows and then I'd buy one. So that's our system.

• 1:01:00Shawn Ryan?

  Let's get back to the AI deep fake stuff. So I, this is something I think about all the time too. And, uh, I had, I had mentioned here, we have a, we do a, uh, we just started this. We started a, a Bible study at my house. And, uh, there's a couple of us, a couple, uh, three families that do it. But, um, one of,

• 1:01:27Shawn Ryan?

  we have a pastor or a minister.

• 1:01:31John Lovell?

  Whatever.

• 1:01:31Shawn Ryan?

  Is there a difference?

• 1:01:34John Lovell?

  Um, so there's, uh, in, in the Bible, there's a few different offices. In the Greek, it's poimane episkovos and presbyteros. And that's like elder, then there's shepherd, and then there is, um, overseer or bishop. And all these kind of offices are used very interchangeably. And usually they're focusing on the different aspects of what that person does. Now culturally, it comes about as. Uh, one denomination likes the word minister, another wants to say the word priest, another one likes to say the word pastor, and still this other one wants to do the word elder.

• 1:02:14John Lovell?

  And all of it kind of means the same-ish thing until you start having like arch bishops, and then it's kind of like a pastor of many, or a priest of many different priests. And so it has to do with more of a hierarchy that happens more in Catholicism, where you'll have far more of a structured hierarchy. You'll have a little bit flatter of a hierarchy and stuff like Methodism, uh, in Baptist or something, or like a non-denominational, oftentimes it's more what's called congregationalist, and that means it's more of a self-autonomous bu- uh, body with a far flatter hierarchy. And so you'll have elder, or pastor, or multiple,

• 1:02:56John Lovell?

  there's probably more than you wanted to know, but don't ask a Bible guy about a Bible question in a interview without a time hack, you know, so.

• 1:03:04Shawn Ryan?

  Well.

• 1:03:04John Lovell?

  Be careful, but pastor, uh, we usually say a pastor.

• 1:03:08Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. So, okay, so we're, kind of where I was headed was, you know, I think about a lot, uh, my wheels are always spinning, what's gonna happen, how is this all gonna play out, AI.

• 1:03:21John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I think about a lot, and, and, and, you know, it's all, people, nobody believes mainstream media, nobody, it's getting to the point, no, nobody believes anything, nobody believes the government, nobody believes the media, nobody believes, uh, news articles, nobody believes magazines, you know.

• 1:03:37John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:38Shawn Ryan?

  In, in, with this new AI stuff that's happening, and, and it's gonna get to, to the, I mean, the deep fake stuff, you have people calling, they can, they can mimic your voice.

• 1:03:50John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Shawn Ryan?

  Call your wife.

• 1:03:51John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:51Shawn Ryan?

  And say, "Hey, Becca, this is John, I'm being held for ransom, do you see where I'm going with this, right?" Well, soon they're gonna be able to do this with FaceTime, they're gonna be able to.

• 1:04:02John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Shawn Ryan?

  You know, we just talked about it, they, they can recreate your image and likeness and voice, uh, to do whatever, to manipulate it to do whatever they want. So, I've always said.

• 1:04:17Shawn Ryan?

  It's going to get to the point where you're seeing is no longer believing.

• 1:04:22John Lovell?

  Well, yeah.

• 1:04:22Shawn Ryan?

  Well, a lot of times I come up with these things and then I tell myself, you're crazy. You're, this is just, you're coming up with these own,

• 1:04:30John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Shawn Ryan?

  You're coming up with these conspiracies in your head and then I hear somebody else articulate it. And it was at the first Bible study that we hosted at our, at our home. And my friend Todd said the exact same thing.

• 1:04:45John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Shawn Ryan?

  He said, "It's going to get to the point where even seeing is not believing." Because everything is going to be fake. And as you know, I'm relatively new with the Bible and I haven't read it all. I'm, I'm breaking it up into sections, but from what I've heard, from people, you know, just talking about it, it, this has already been written.

• 1:05:14John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:15Shawn Ryan?

  That it will get to the point

• 1:05:18John Lovell?

  Yes.

• 1:05:18Shawn Ryan?

  Where you cannot tell what is actually real or true.

• 1:05:24John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Shawn Ryan?

  Is this where you think we're at? Does it say that?

• 1:05:28John Lovell?

  I think we're near now to the end than when we first believed. I think this, I think we are careening toward an ultimate reckoning with Creator God. Um, and I think us, uh, we are destined to destroy ourselves. We are, we are Mary Shelley's monster, you know? Uh, we, yeah, of course, we destroy our lives, we're going to destroy ourselves. Um, and so, yeah, I think it's heating up to a biblical, biblically prophesied climax. Now, I'm really careful in how I interpret end times prophecy.

• 1:06:09John Lovell?

  Uh, because you can take it all kinds of different directions and be like, alright, so Mark of the Beast actually meant this and I'm like, I don't know, but I'm going to cling to team Jesus real tight and not do what the world is telling me to do. I'm just going to follow Jesus. I'm like, I don't know how all this is shaking out, but I know whose side I'm on. And, uh, So, uh, but the more I see happening in the public square, the more I wanna just hole up and, and focus on the physical people in front of me, the real world. Cause uh,

• 1:06:52John Lovell?

  just like you, you just espoused, I don't trust my own eyes and my own ears. And more and more, uh, less and less, social media and the internet has something to offer me. I'm not getting enough nourishment for the poison that I'm taking in. And once AI has thrown into question the things that I, I do get information on there of like, well, I guess I'll just value my physical relationships, person to person. You know, like how we used to live before the internet. When the internet is completely compromised, I guess I'll just get rid of the internet. Like, what about banking? I'm like, I will do banking in person. And I'm like, and people, you know, I'm not saying I will just not do the internet. Well,

• 1:07:37John Lovell?

  when I was on the mission field, I quit the internet for a year. I just quit. Um, I found of like, well, I'm really, you know, just into my books and my mission. And, uh, so I got a flip phone and I just kicked off the internet for a year. So our online banking, my wife would have to do. And I'd coach her through it. We didn't have much money anyway. We spent it all on the mission field. So that wasn't too hard. But when we did have to do something online banking, it was through her, you know, her, her internet connection. I didn't even have it. And guess what? It was a really good year. It was a cool year. You could make it. We survived without the internet before we could do it again. Some

• 1:08:21John Lovell?

  stuff would be a real pain in the neck. Now, I don't know if me and you could, because my business is on the internet. But here we're talking about a cataclysmic break, a destruction and unraveling of all kinds of things where a lot of our jobs don't exist anymore. And I'm probably way decent at this. So we're, we're really trying to really look out in this, uh, theoretical dystopia. And so, I don't know, man.

• 1:08:51Shawn Ryan?

  Are you at peace with this yet?

• 1:08:53John Lovell?

  No.

• 1:08:54Shawn Ryan?

  Knowing that the rug's gonna be ripped out from under you?

• 1:08:59John Lovell?

  I mean, no, but remember, my peace doesn't come from this world. So I can still have joy and peace and hope. Because this, this is not my home. I'm just, I'm just passing through. Uh huh. In this life, just passing through. Now, I feel deeply distressed by everyone else that's kind of caught up in the fray, who are hoping that, no, we gotta get this guy elected and this leader, he's gonna get it all right. I'm like, oh, precious child. No, no, that is not true. Whatever presidential candidate you're rooting for, he is not the Messiah

• 1:09:44John Lovell?

  you think. And though it would be better that that person got elected versus this other one, they're not gonna write all the ills. Yeah. That's every politician for all time. That's the platform. Put me in office and I'll fix everything. And guess what? None of them have ever pulled it off. And the next one, though they make it a little bit better, or not quite as worse as the guys before them or the guys after them, they're not gonna fix everything. They're not gonna fix you. They'll fix some stuff. They're not gonna fix the whole thing, though. And so that's where my faith is not in our political leaders.

• 1:10:25John Lovell?

  Um, and so, yeah, I can have peace and joy. Um, but man, my kids are growing up in this world, you know, and there's a lot of folks out there that are lost, and that's upsetting. And I still, um, you know, I still love my country, and I wanna fight for her, because I think the ideals that she embodies is worth fighting for. And so, yeah, I, I will spend myself utterly on these things. Uh, but hope and joy and peace, those don't come from the things I'm fighting for.

• 1:11:03Shawn Ryan?

  All right, John, we're wrapping up towards the end of the interview. There is one other topic that I want to talk to you about. It has to do, well, it doesn't have to do with, it is fatherhood. You seem to be a, a very good father. You're obviously a very involved parent, so is your wife. What do you think some of the, I mean, there are a lot of fatherless kids out there right now, today. Even the ones that do have a father, a lot of those fathers are not present. You see it everywhere you go today. You see young men with zero confidence.

• 1:11:41John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Shawn Ryan?

  They sit there and they look at their shoes. They can't talk to you, they can't make eye contact, you know, and, and, and, you know, we talked about feminism earlier and the woke agenda a little bit, and that's destroying masculinity. But I think that the biggest assault on masculinity is the absence of the father in homes.

• 1:12:04John Lovell?

  Oh, hardcore. No close second to that. And most kids in America are not growing up with a father in the home. The majority. Holy smokes. So, uh, big clap just for the dads that show up that don't leave. That's awesome. Um, I also want to recognize some dads didn't leave. They were chased out as well. So both are true. Now, what I don't want to do is buy into that cultural dynamic where the guy is always at fault and the girl is, did great and she's the victim. I'm like, no, some women are so insufferably impossible to live with, and you were the reason he left.

• 1:12:47John Lovell?

  Usually, the marriage falls apart because it takes two to take out both of you. Had your own junk, you know, and, and that sucks. And so I'm not judging. I'm, I'm not, I'm sympathetic to that, but just recognize usually two to tango kind of thing. So, man, I, I couldn't agree more that fatherlessness is, it's an epidemic that, that's destroying the very fabric of our society. Must, must, must get fatherhood right. Now, I wouldn't immediately said, hey, you're, you're a good dad. And I'm like, I hope so. I really, I really hope so. Um, I think there's some stuff that I am doing that's very counter-cultural,

• 1:13:28John Lovell?

  and I think I'm doing some of these things well. I can feel it. I know these are good variables. There's other stuff of like, I don't know. I, I hope so. I hate how I'm, uh, I'm, I'm so tired and distracted and doing so much that I can all, I'm always thinking of like, man, I should really take my kids camping or something. I wouldn't take them camping in, in a long time. Now I'm doing these other things. I just took them to Italy and Austria and Switzerland, and we were together for two weeks doing stuff. And I'm like, I did that. But I think about all the other stuff of like, the day in and day out stuff. I'll do a little bit of like, kids want to play airsoft and Nerf, and maybe

• 1:14:11John Lovell?

  I say no nine times for every one I say yes. Like, man, that sucks. I, anyway, I'm just venting my own, I could be a lot better. I'm just worn out. And, and I, I, I've got to figure out a good time where I can have some, you know, daddy time with them and make it count. But the jury's out on how good of a dad I am. I've got a nine-year-old and 11-year-old. And when you meet them, you'd be like, oh, these are confident kids. You would marvel at their vocabulary. It's really quite, quite striking. Their vocabularies are incredible because they've read more books than most college graduates. I guarantee you, my nine-year-old even, my 11-year-old's the big reader, but even my nine-year-old

• 1:14:55John Lovell?

  has read more books than most college graduates. I guarantee it. If you stacked up the books we've read just as a family, uh, cause I've been reading to my kids since two years old, uh, uh, we've read. This many books, you know, me to them. And then so that that's been a culture of you. I think I get a lot of compliments on my kids. So I think, I think I'm doing some good stuff as a dad. But who knows, maybe they're gonna write a book when they're 24 on how actually dad sucked and I was doing such and such. Maybe I'm guilty of ills that I'm not even aware of,

• 1:15:37John Lovell?

  you know. And so I don't know, more than patting myself on the back of the few things that I may be doing right, I'm hyper vigilant of, I hope I'm not sucking in ways that I can't perceive. So, anyway, you thrust the moniker on me and I just telling you why that made me uncomfortable.

• 1:15:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, well, you know, I get it. I'm hard on myself too, being a dad. But, you know, when I come home and I see my two year old son

• 1:16:08Shawn Ryan?

  running to the garage door because he heard that the driveway alarm go off, you know, that's, that's a

• 1:16:15John Lovell?

  Super cute.

• 1:16:16Shawn Ryan?

  That's a good sign. And, you know, when I go to work, he's grabbing my pant leg, trying to get me to

• 1:16:23John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Shawn Ryan?

  to play with his new train or his cars or whatever. I mean, something's right.

• 1:16:30John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:30Shawn Ryan?

  Doing something right.

• 1:16:31John Lovell?

  Good job, bro.

• 1:16:32Shawn Ryan?

  I'm sure I'm doing all kinds of bad things and, and, and things that I can improve on, but something I'm doing is right. Otherwise, he wouldn't be getting excited. And I'm sure you're doing quite a few things right, too, John.

• 1:16:44John Lovell?

  Thanks.

• 1:16:45Shawn Ryan?

  What are, I mean, I hate to like, throw such a general question at you, but what are some of the most important things to you

• 1:16:56Shawn Ryan?

  that you would like to pass on to your kids? Some attributes?

• 1:17:01John Lovell?

  Oh, wow. All right. You went a different route than I thought. Um, great question. So I want them to be courageous and bold. I want them to be well educated. Um, I want them to know how to treat a woman. They practice on their mom, you know, and so, um, taking care. I want them to know how to resolve conflict. I want them to be leaders. Um, I want them to be honest.

• 1:17:38John Lovell?

  I don't really care what they do for a li- I don't, I don't care uh as much.

• 1:17:46John Lovell?

  But I want them to live worthy. It's the manner in which they live. That's the stuff that I actually care about. Um, and I realize the only possible way I can build that in them is to be it myself. Um, you can teach what you know, but you can only replicate who you are. That's it. And so, uh, there's knowing that there's no, um, there's no, what is it, supplement, there's no replacement for spending time with your children. You have to spend time with them.

• 1:18:24John Lovell?

  And if you spend time with them and we embody these values, they're gonna see it and it might just replicate and spread. So you'll replicate who you are, assuming you spend sufficient time with them. If you are that way and you spend time with them, it'll almost be impossible not to replicate those certain virtues in them. And so that's my plan. Be better personally and spend time. And I look for teachable moments as we laugh our way through the years. And we cry through pains and we grit our teeth together as we set ourselves against different struggles.

• 1:19:09John Lovell?

  But we do it all shoulder to shoulder and they do it as they see dad do it too. Um, but I'm not living a separate life that they'll one day learn about in my memoirs. They're watching me go through it now. So when I go through a struggle or something, something happens, I very well may bring the boys over. I'm like, alright, boys, I'm dealing with this right here. Now this person said this to me and I felt like saying or doing this. What do you think about that?

• 1:19:42John Lovell?

  What should I do? Okay. If I do that, and we'll war game out a little bit of that. We'll figure out that together, but I'm inviting them into our structure. So we're very open with our kids about, here's the problems we're solving. Here's what I just did, and it was wrong. I raised my voice at your mother. Let me tell you why I shouldn't have done that and how I should have done that different. And so, I mean, they see me apologize when I do something stupid. Or when my wife does. And so I'm trying to, hey, here's, here's, here's some good stuff. Here's some bad stuff. Your dad is fatally flawed and I'm on a journey and I'm trying to get better.

• 1:20:27John Lovell?

  So we have grace together for each other. Here's my wins, here's my losses. Uh, and so I'm inviting them on this journey.

• 1:20:37Shawn Ryan?

  You are setting the ultimate example.

• 1:20:39John Lovell?

  That's the goal. Uh, and so my hope is, is they'll learn from my wins and my losses. So I screwed up teaching opportunity. Hey, I did well teaching opportunity. Um, so either way, maybe they can get stronger here. Um, that's the goal. And I don't always do that awesome, you know? You know, sometimes you feel like you're killing it at work and you're sucking at home.

• 1:21:06Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:21:07John Lovell?

  And other times you feel like you're killing it at home and sucking at work. It's just real hard to balance those two things really well.

• 1:21:17Shawn Ryan?

  I could definitely relate to that.

• 1:21:18John Lovell?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:23Shawn Ryan?

  If you could give one piece of advice to a new father, what would it be?

• 1:21:31John Lovell?

  Uh, so brand new father? Um.

• 1:21:37John Lovell?

  Man.

• 1:21:40John Lovell?

  So if you're a brand new father, brand new, uh, babies oftentimes come out purple with cone heads.

• 1:21:49John Lovell?

  Don't freak out. That's just a baby thing. Uh, I noticed, uh, our first son and mom had this amazing connection. I mean, I, I love my son. I'm kind of like, yeah, awesome. Uh, awesome. You know, cool.

• 1:22:06John Lovell?

  Well, see you when you're older. No, just kidding. Uh, but, uh, as the kids get older and start to communicate, especially sons, they kind of shift over more toward dad. When mama rules the first few nurturing years more. And I found myself, I got really jealous for my wife's time because my kids got the first fruits. And so I had to, my wife is holding up these kids, but I'm holding up my wife. And it felt a little thankless. And that I'm after my wife, but she just seems to be after the kids. She's not after me. Uh, but the first year, it's really about keeping those kids alive, you know? Uh, but you still need to pull her out so that you can invest in the marriage

• 1:22:49John Lovell?

  again. A lot of folks will, in our society today, we idolatryize our children. And a lot of times, the arrival of our kids marks the beginning of the end for our marriage. Because it always becomes about the kids. So like, an example, you're talking with your spouse at the dinner table. A kid runs up with a problem. Mommy, mommy, mommy. Do you stop, allow the interruption, turn, and answer the kid and off on the way? Is that the answer? Or is it, no, I'm speaking to your father. Wait. And then you speak maybe a little bit longer now to make them wait.

• 1:23:34John Lovell?

  One is a clue that you're idolatриzing your kids at the expense of your marital relationship, setting a bad precedent, is teaching this kid that they're the center of the world, and you're gonna ruin them for it. And the second one is saying, no, your father is speaking, and you don't get to interrupt your father, you should be listening to your father. You know, and so here, this is a, this is one that teaches a kid humility and good manners, and patience, and restraint. And so, that's just one tiny, you know, show of that, but you should not idolatrize your kids, or you'll ruin them.

• 1:24:18John Lovell?

  Love your spouse more than your kids, and your family has a really good shot. Some people won't like that, but it's just good advice. The kids will actually flourish in that dynamic, and it's gonna teach them how to do marriage really well. And you make them into these little bratty kings, these little tiny Napoleons, when you let them be the most important. So make your spouse, make Jesus be the most important thing, make your spouse be the thing, you know, of like, it's the adult-centered household, and the kids are invited into

• 1:24:59John Lovell?

  it in these parameters, not the other way around, that'll destroy it. For brand-new dads, invest in Baby Wise, otherwise your kids, even as babies, they're just going to run your wife ragged into the ground. They should eat on a schedule, but look up the book Baby Wise, holy cow, that'll save your sanity. First couple of years, you just survive through the terrible twos and threes, and for me, as a dad, it started getting really fun. It was fun before, you have lots of joy, but you're worn out, exhausted, a lot of times, and you're getting them through it at four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 years old, those have been party, those have been so fun, years four to 11, that's

• 1:25:41John Lovell?

  as far as we've gotten so far, have loved it, wanna freeze them, not like Walt Disney, Cryogenic, or, you know, whatever, but I mean, like, Peter Pan, don't grow up anymore, we really love you where you're at. That's been true of every age since the terrorist twos and threes. Anyway, somewhere in there is some good advice.

• 1:26:00Shawn Ryan?

  That's uh, that's some great advice. And uh, you know, throughout this, I learned a lot just right there.

• 1:26:06John Lovell?

  Uh, you're gracious.

• 1:26:07Shawn Ryan?

  I'm, I'm not even joking around, you know, the, the dinner table thing. That's something I've never even thought of and we're not to that stage yet, but that's something that I've, I've never even thought about that.

• 1:26:18John Lovell?

  Oh, here's something of the dinner table thing. This is a new revelation and that's uh, I, my, it's hard to get your kids to eat. I don't know what it is, but kids just don't seem to want to eat. They want to play and flip upside down and there's a toy and you know, you and your wife cleaned your plate like 30 minutes ago and you're just begging this kid to eat. First off, that's not a good way to do business. You should never be begging your children to do anything. So like, all right, you don't want to eat, you got uh, three minutes to finish that up. If not, you go to bed and when you break up in the morning, there's your, this will be your breakfast. And just let them get really hungry until they appreciate food. And anyway, that, that's uh, your wife isn't going to let you do that. She's going to play the plead game until she eventually gets really exhausted.

• 1:27:03John Lovell?

  And then you'll come in of like, you want me to solve this? And well, then she'll say, yes, I really do. I'm like, okay, but you can't interfere once you give me the keys to this. And they say, okay, very good. And then you're just like, all right, kid, you got two minutes to finish that. Uh, like as soon as you're done, you go up to bed, go straight to bed. You know, they go to bed uh, without dinner. Uh, mind you, they won't eat the dinner. Fine, you don't have dinner, go up to bed. Um, dads know how to solve this immediately. And that's great because dads will know a certain amount of um, dads will know solutions to problems that moms will not in raising kids and vice versa. And it's through the wrestling tension of those two things that kids actually thrive. I solved that problem immediately. I know exactly how to solve the eating problem. Uh, and my son, after a couple of hours.

• 1:27:49John Lovell?

  Called down starving, you know, and I'm like, would you like to eat? Yes, Daddy. And I brought him up his cold dinner and I watched him eat that food. He refused to eat earlier and he had tears streaming down his cheeks while he ate this thing, smiling ear to ear, happy as a clam. He got his dinner. Nice. His little brother was asleep beside him and he was crying because he was hungry. And he knew that if he didn't eat that dinner tonight, that would be his breakfast. And he don't, he doesn't have to eat that breakfast. But you will not eat and that will be your lunch. And you don't have to eat that lunch, but you'll skip that meal and that will be your dinner. Easy, easy. Mom couldn't do that, couldn't imagine it, worked immediately. Never had the problem again. Nice.

• 1:28:34John Lovell?

  You know, and so you are built with certain masculine instincts. That is incredibly important in the raising of a child. You get it. You get some solutions that your wife will not. She won't, she won't like it. It'll be counterintuitive to her. It'll seem harsh and to you it's clear as a bell. Uh, in other ways, so your job is to make them tough. To grow them up, to make them strong so that they can survive or so that they can be well functioning members of society that are useful for something. Make them strong. Her job is to keep them alive, long enough for you to make them strong.

• 1:29:17John Lovell?

  And so build them, nurture them. And so you've got these two bookends and it's through the tension. It's through that, let's discuss this man and wife to figure out what's best in any circumstance. If you win all these interchanges, you'll make them a heartless brute. Uh, just a punk. Uh, and if she wins, they're going to be weak, spoiled little brats. Uh, and so it turns out that, uh, kids need a dad and a mom.

• 1:29:55John Lovell?

  So.

• 1:29:57Shawn Ryan?

  Well, John.

• 1:30:00Shawn Ryan?

  Lot of wisdom today. A ton of, I learned a ton.

• 1:30:03John Lovell?

  You're gracious. Thank you.

• 1:30:05Shawn Ryan?

  You should think about writing a book sometime.

• 1:30:07John Lovell?

  This book?

• 1:30:10John Lovell?

  We're supposed to talk about the book. We never talked about the book. We got carried away. Guys, I got a book.

• 1:30:16Shawn Ryan?

  You have a book, so.

• 1:30:19Shawn Ryan?

  John, I just, once again, I want to say, man, it was a, it was a real honor to get to know you in here and have this conversation last night at dinner. I mean, I'm just so happy that we finally connected and got to meet in person. I wish you the best of luck and, and, um, once again, for anybody looking to get in touch with John, whether it's training, just want to get in touch with him, get the book, warrior poetsociety.com. All your social media is under the same handle, I believe, and John Lovell, so.

• 1:30:51John Lovell?

  Yep, you'll find us. Thanks for having me on, man. I had a great time.

• 1:30:54Shawn Ryan?

  Me too. Best of luck to you, brother.

• 1:30:56John Lovell?

  Thanks, man. You as well.