Jocko Underground Spotlight Episode: Putting Up With Disrespect | Finding A Purpose In Life

>Join Jocko UNDERGROUND < https://app.redcircle.com/shows/64a89f88-a245-4098-8d8d-496325ec4f74/exclusive-content Putting up with disrespectful people and checking your ego. Effectively communicating with different personalities. How to find your purpose in life. Creating more time in the day for things you want to do. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  Some people think that checking your ego means putting up with disrespectful behavior. Sometimes we have trouble communicating effectively with different personalities. And furthermore, some of us are struggling to find purpose in life. On top of that, sometimes we want more time in the day to do the things that we actually want to do. On this recap episode of The Underground, we will cover the advice on how to handle all of those various elements. So go get some. Next question.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Next question. A theme that is often discussed on the podcast is checking your ego. Forgive me if I have missed the answer to this question previously. The question is, although I understand the strategic benefits of checking my ego, I also believe that there's a certain continuum that exists of when owning my actions and maybe being egotistical might prove beneficial. This is a two-part question, as there are certain scenarios that have arose in my professional career where I felt it was to my detriment that I checked my ego. The first, do you have an example of the threshold of bullshit you'll take checking your ego? The second, when does ego strategically benefit you, if at all?

• 1:27Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, this clearly a continuum exists for sure. That's why we wrote the dichotomy of leadership. There's all kinds of continuums inside leadership, and one of them is, one of them is the ego. So... Let's, let's, let's go to the second question first, and I kind of misread these questions when I originally read them. I thought he was talking about the ownership aspect, but the second question, when does the ego strategically benefit you, if at all? Well, that happens all the time. That happens all the time. If, if you are going to, if you're gonna be in a wrestling match...

• 2:14Jocko Willink?

  And you're you're you let your ego get a little bit stronger like hey you're going into a tough match and you're like I got this I could do this right like it's if you go in there man this guy's gonna beat me down this guy looks so strong if that's how you're going into the match that is going to hurt your performance you can't go into that match thinking I don't have what it takes to beat this guy no you gotta be like hey look at that I see he's looking a little soft over there I've been training hard I'm ready to rock and roll I'm gonna bring it that can happen when you're pitching a plan to your boss if you if you're thinking oh I'm never gonna get this right my boss is never gonna buy into my plan guess what that's gonna come across if you have a situation where the team is is nervous about

• 2:55Jocko Willink?

  something teams all nervous the team's scared to do something and you guys go I'm not sure how this is gonna go guys but we don't really have a choice right that's not gonna help the team but if you go in there you assess the situation go okay cool we got this the plan is tough but we can make it happen so those are plenty of times where your ego benefits you not to mention your ego benefits you that you want to win right I we talk about checking the ego because the ego gets you in trouble but as long as you have it under control you it makes you work hard it makes you want to win it makes you want to it makes you want to come in first place it gives you pride in what you're doing all those things are

• 3:32Jocko Willink?

  totally positive if if if you didn't have an ego then you wouldn't care hey you gonna are you gonna hey are you gonna work out today no why not I don't care I don't care what kind of physical condition I don't care what I look like I don't care what my health is I have no ego okay is that beneficial hey did you do your uh did you do your sales calls today well no why well cuz I don't care if I sell anything oh did you study for your test that you have tomorrow in school no why cuz I don't care what my grade is So isn't it good to have an ego that says, hey, I'm gonna study hard. I'm gonna work hard to get a good grade on this test because I want to be number one in the class.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  So that's all there's, there's countless, countless situations. Where is the ego get out of control is where is the problem? I'll tell you where. Go back to the wrestling example. Hey, I'm so good at wrestling, I don't even need to train in the off season because I'm so awesome. What's gonna happen when the season hits? You're gonna get crushed by some kid that was training freaking hard. Hey, we don't need to rehearse for this pitch to the boss because our plan is so awesome. He's just gonna buy into it. Is that gonna help you? No, you're arrogant, you're overconfident.

• 4:54Jocko Willink?

  Uh, you know, need I go on? That's what it is. So what was the first question? Do you have an example of the threshold of bullshit you will take checking your ego? Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

• 5:10Jocko Willink?

  But I don't know that I, I don't know that I could draw a line in the sand of, hey, here's where if you do this, I'm gonna stop you. Um, you know, if someone's gonna start.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  It feels like it depends a lot on like what, what's, what's bullshit? Cause like even that, it's like even to say, what, where's the threshold? I can only take so much of your bullshit, right? Like.

• 5:35Jocko Willink?

  Are you looking at me like that?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, where, where, what, what's the bullshit? You know, like, why? Cause they're correcting you a lot?

• 5:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Well, usually if you're getting corrected a lot, that means you might be making a lot of mistakes. Again, speaking from my experience in my family with my wife. So it, and I'll, and I'll think that a lot of the time too. Like every once in a while, I'll, I'll think like, hey, like, is this person, and I'm not necessarily saying my wife here, but anyone where it's like, hmm, I, I, I would never talk to you like that. I would never use that tone with you like ever, not you, Jocko, but I'm just saying the other person. Um, meanwhile, you're using this tone with me every single day almost, you know? Kind of a thing, if that's your boss or something like that. So that to me could be like, man, how much of this tone am I gonna take? But if you, if I don't think of like, which, what you would always say or do always say,

• 6:26Speaker 01

  where you have to, when you consider like the overall goal, like what do you want out of this right here? Out of this relationship with this boss or your, you know, whoever? Do you want, is your primary goal, if your overall goal is it to not get talked to like that, or to express yourself now that you're angry that you got talked to? Cause usually that's a lot of time when they quote unquote ego comes in, I'm saying in my experience when I want to be like, when I feel this, how much of this bullshit am I going to take? You know, at some point I'm going to let her know or let this person know, you know, like, hey, you can't talk to me like that. You know, I'm kind of tired of your, you talking to me like this or whatever. But to me that, when you really think about it, that's not, that's not bullshit. It's like, if you think of it in terms of, hey, you're talking to

• 7:10Speaker 01

  me like this for a reason. And then you start with, okay, what do, and then I'm just saying, this is what I did, how I thought. I'd be like, hey, what am I doing? What am I doing to make this person talk to me this way? And then when I did that, I started to find all these little things. Hey, if I just change this, this and this, I probably won't get talked to like that ever. So I don't have to reach any threshold. Because it's not really bullshit, you know?

• 7:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So here's a couple of things that I was thinking as you were talking.

• 7:41Jocko Willink?

  Number one, is whatever this other individual is doing, is it negatively impacting the mission? Right? So if, if you're my boss Echo and you come in and you're like, hey, hey Jocko, this is another unsap plan from you. This is ridiculous. You don't know what you're doing. And you say that in front of everybody and it undermines my credibility, that, that's not good, right? Now, like you said, it, there's probably some mistakes I'm making. So I need to go to you and say, hey, boss, here's what's going on, man. Can you pull me aside when you, you know, when you want to really jump down my throat like that? Because I, I still got to go back and work with the troops. And if they're looking at me thinking I'm an idiot, that, that's going to be rough for me. And look, I acted like an idiot. I got it. The plan I presented wasn't good. But I just want to, I just want to get the right information

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  to you and I want to learn from you so that I can move forward. So, so, so could that be considered bullshit that you came down and yelled at me? Yes, it could. Does, is that appropriate? No, it's not. Especially if it's going to negatively impact the mission. So there's a, there's a situation where I might be like, okay. But to your point, I wouldn't say, don't talk to me like that. I'd say, hey, listen, I know that I presented you with a bad plan. Next time, can you help me? Because when, when you're just ripping apart my plan in front of everybody. I'm already having a hard time getting through to the guys and now they're now their respect level for me is going down and that's going to hurt our capability to accomplish this mission. Can I get with you beforehand to to get that straight feedback straight from you so

• 9:09Jocko Willink?

  that it doesn't really make me look like an idiot in front of the guys because I'm trying to build some trust with them and this isn't helping. So that's one.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  That's so interesting. So it's not even and it's almost like so the question kind of breaks down in a in this way where it's like how much how much bullshit are you willing to take essentially?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  It's not about any threshold of stuff that you're willing to take and after this threshold you just can't take it anymore. It's not like that's not an applicable question almost because if you look at it like hey there there is no threshold. There is no nothing. If there's a problem with the interest of building relationships, that's the hundred percent. We'll just say the goal of the whole over. Yeah.

• 9:53Jocko Willink?

  Strategic goal.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  That is the goal. If you go into it like that, oh yeah, and just start solving problems. So there's no threshold. Hey, if someone's like giving you quote unquote bullshit. Okay, that's a problem. You solve it with the intention of improving the relationship. That's essentially what you do and you just treat every everything like that essentially, then there will be no threshold. That's what I mean. That's what it seems like.

• 10:14Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Now that's number one. Number two is being on the high ground, right? So when you roll into a briefing and you're my boss and you and you know, you talk down to me and I sit there and go Roger that boss got it. And everybody in the room knows that what you just did was inappropriate and it was bad leadership and I and they saw me maintain my cool and maintain my my confidence and my respect level and I go Roger that boss next time I'll straighten that out. Who looks better? You know what I'm saying? I'm on the high ground all day long. And that's going to lead to number three.

• 10:57Jocko Willink?

  Which go ahead, I cut you off.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  No, no, no, actually, I was cutting you off because of so, uh, I, cause that happened in my experience. That exact same thing, it had nothing to do with me, I witnessed it, so I was at a shoot, video shoot. Kind of what, you know, one of these kind of medium bigger ones where there's big equipments and cranes and stuff like this and um, we'll call him the director, right, I'm not gonna name his name, cause he's kinda like, people know who he is, but, he's like, so there's a protocol, right, and it differs a little bit from like, when you do a shoot, right? So you slate, which is clopping it out, or you know, whatever, you slate, and then you say, rolling, the camera guys say speed, some, you know, some, like I said, a difference, it depends on the shoot,

• 11:41Speaker 01

  but the cameras guys were saying speed, meaning like, I'm rolling essentially and all that stuff.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  And then, once they say speed, that's, at the end of the day, that's just saying, hey, we're rolling too, we're good to go here. Everyone's like checking off, you know, checking, so,

• 11:57Speaker 01

  then they say, and then he says action, right, boom. So, one of, and we're doing a lot of takes, so one take, he said, rolling, and then they slated, they say rolling, and then one of the camera guys didn't say speed. I think it was just so mundane that he just didn't, you could tell he's like, there doing it or whatever. I even think, there was a monitor there where you could see, you know, that he was recording. So the director goes, and then they say action, right? And then, uh, they start.

• 12:25Jocko Willink?

  Camera two, are you rolling?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Yep, so he, and it gets worse though, here's the thing, so it's in front of everybody, you know, these pictures. And he's like, wait, wait, camera two, are you, are you speeding? You didn't say speed, like, what's up? And then he was like, he's like, speed, you know, not, he didn't say, oh, sorry, nothing, he was like, okay, speed, kinda like, I got it, cool. He goes, speed, and then they say action, and he goes, he yells out, he's like, that's not my job, to the guy. Kinda like, it's not my job to, for, to say your speed, kind of a thing, right? And I was like. That was a fu- that was a bad move right there. And you could tell everyone was like kinda awkward or whatever and you could tell everyone was like, who the hell is this guy man?

• 13:02Jocko Willink?

  Where that guy thinks he just came off like a badass.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  Everyone in the room just looked at him and went, you're a freaking loser.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  How the cameraman responded. He just said, he just said, copy. That's all he said.

• 13:15Jocko Willink?

  Just copy.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  He wasn't like, oh, he didn't say nothing or no, he just said, copy, kinda like, that was just how, you know, like, almost like he didn't try to call him out in front of everyone.

• 13:24Jocko Willink?

  Yep, he actually took the higher ground.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Took the high ground.

• 13:27Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Exactly, man.

• 13:28Jocko Willink?

  So, high ground? When someone comes and tries to be all, all, uh, demeaning to you? And tries to, tries to, uh, what does he, what does he say here? I guess that was the last question, talk about dismissive and demeaning. When you go, hey Roger, that boss got, Roger, that boss got it. And you make, you let them roll. And here's the last thing.

• 13:51Jocko Willink?

  And this is a little bit of a,

• 13:54Jocko Willink?

  little bit of a, of a one that may or may not bother somebody.

• 14:00Jocko Willink?

  Generally speaking, when, when we start feeling that someone's got the big ego or they're offending us, guess what's getting offended? Your ego.

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  Your ego is the thing that's getting offended. And that means that,

• 14:18Jocko Willink?

  that is a good time to check your ego. And it's the hardest time to check your ego. So, so, I have a really high threshold. Because I realized that, almost every response to, uh, from an egotistical person, that you give, it reveals your freaking ego. It reveals your lack of confidence and your insecurity as a person to be like, I gotta defend myself right now. Where I can look at someone, someone comes in and says, you know, hey Jocko, you got, you, uh, what is it, you got, um, you know, you got a gap between your front two teeth. You know? And I go, yeah, pretty good one, isn't it? You know what I mean? Like, cool. Like, whatever.

• 15:02Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna get offended by that. Or, you know, whatever, whatever they're gonna throw at you, that hurts your ego? You feel your ego starting to wanna talk back when you, when you respond, everybody knows, oh, that bothered him. That bothered Jocko. That's a sensitive area.

• 15:22Jocko Willink?

  Like that, if you're, if things are bothering you, it's revealed to everybody. That's why when you sit back and you go, eh, cool. Good. Yeah. You called it, man. Like, that's it. We're, we're moving forward. Do I have an example of a threshold of bullshit that will take checking your ego? I, again, I think it's 99% of the time. There's very, I can't think of examples where I'm like, hold on a minute, I gotta put a stop to this person.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52Jocko Willink?

  Right? I can't think of good examples like that. Because you sit there and you listen and you go, this person's making it into you out of themselves right now.

• 16:01Jocko Willink?

  Hey, are you done? Like, even that right there is like a little bit of a, it's just like, okay, got it. Hey, appreciate, appreciate the feedback. Hey, got it, boss. Yep, check. And then, yeah, is there time when your ego helps you? Yeah, all the time. But just don't let it get out of control.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny. I can't imagine you saying to someone, your boss or your wife, or I don't know, anyone saying, like, losing your, it's not losing your temper, it's just like, I've had it up to here with the way you talk to me. You know, like, I can't even imagine that. It's like, man, fuck.

• 16:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  I gotta keep that in mind.

• 16:33Jocko Willink?

  When you nod, when you just look at him, you know, nod, nod your head. Yep, yep. Got it. Yep. And here's the other thing, man, like, you gotta think about what that other person's going through, right? First of all, they have an ego. First of all, that, that director who's trying to get this shot done, he's frustrated, he wants a place, things aren't going right, he's over time, he's over schedule, he's over budget, all those things. And he doesn't have a good control over his, over his personality and over his own ego and it's over his own temperament, and that's obvious. So when they freak out, hey, yep, got it, boss. Thanks. Copy. You know what I mean? Like, don't, they're looking for a reason to blow up.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:08Jocko Willink?

  Don't give it to them. Don't give it to them. Check.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Next question. I run into problems when communicating with a group of.

• 17:18Jocko Willink?

  So, that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen.

• 17:28Jocko Willink?

  Go to JacoUnderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen

• 18:13Jocko Willink?

  this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.