Are You Ignoring Your Higher Self? NEUROSCIENTIST on Intuition, Synchronicities & Soul Messages | Dr. Marjorie Woollacott

What if consciousness isn’t just in your brain, but in every cell of the universe? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Marjorie Woollacott—renowned neuroscientist and leading researcher on consciousness and spiritual experience—shares her personal journey of spiritual awakening. She describes a transformative guided meditation where she felt an electric current flow from her head to her heart, accompanied by an overwhelming sense of love unlike anything she’d ever experienced. Dr. Woollacott dives into the science, the mysticism, and the practical wisdom behind spiritual transformation, including: - Why it’s vital to integrate spiritual experiences into daily life and how she finally merged her academic & spiritual paths after keeping them separate for so long - Neural features in the brain that limit access to extrasensory perception, and why some people are born with “their senses wide open” - Why you don’t need a scientific explanation to fully embrace the positive transformation of a spiritual awakening - Practical tips to quiet your mind & deepen meditation, even if you’ve struggled in the past - How connection matters more than ever in challenging global times - Who is more likely to have psi abilities, and how Near Death Experiences can unlock hidden potential - How some people can go beyond space & time if they believe it’s possible - Why placebo works & how to balance self-agency with surrendering to the universe - Her belief that consciousness exists differently in dreams & alternate states, and how collective consciousness can create real-world change - The incredible story of a doctor's out-of-body experience during hypnotic regression in an NDE, and what it teaches us about the mind and soul - Scientific argument for why telekinesis could be possible - Importance of finding purpose, noticing synchronicities, and staying “open” to life’s hidden signals - Power of prayer & Reiki, and why establishing energetic boundaries between healer & patient is essential Whether you’re curious about spiritual awakening, consciousness, extrasensory perception, near death experiences, or the science behind mysticism, this conversation will expand your mind, open your heart, and challenge what you thought was possible. Prepare to explore the frontier where science meets the soul, and discover how your own awareness could be far greater than you ever imagined! Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code MAYIM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/mayim Slow the growth of greys and get 15% off by using code BREAKER at https://www. Arey.com Make a change this spring with a scientific approach to clean air. Visit http://rabbitair.com/ or call their 24/7 consultants today. Dr Marjorie Woollacott’s Books: Spiritual Awakenings: Scientists and Academics Describe Their Experiences: https://spiritual-awakenings.net/ The Playful Universe: Synchronicity and the Nature of Consciousness: https://marjoriewoollacott.com/books/the-playful-universe-2/ On the Banks of the River Styx: New Perspectives on Terminal Lucidity and Other Near-Death Phenomena: https://a.co/d/0N8w9ZE Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  It felt like a mini lightning bolt. This energy that goes from his fingers to the point between my eyes, down to the very center of my chest. And I feel this energy begin radiating outward from my heart, filling my whole being. This is love, and my heart is my home.

• 0:17Mayim Bialik?

  You were not on any psychedelic drug?

• 0:20Speaker 00

  I've never taken any psychedelics. I was an atheist, and I was a neuroscientist that was totally skeptical. But just beneath the surface of my awareness, there simmered this heartfelt ecstasy.

• 0:31Mayim Bialik?

  Dr. Marjorie Woollacott. She's a professor and a member of the Institute of Neuroscience at the University of Oregon. She's going to talk today about psych phenomenon, remote viewing, the ability of the mind to access a realm that allows us the ability to transcend anxiety, depression, fear.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  When a person has a near-death experience, they often come back with these psi abilities. It's amazing what people can do, including the interactions with their loved ones on the other side.

• 1:02Mayim Bialik?

  Dr. Woollacott, I would say no. That would be my response. No.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  What my consciousness could do is actually change the channels in the receptors of various neurons in my brain to open them up. That's when telepathy often occurs. Why can't we do it in the laboratory? Because we don't have emotionally charged events in the laboratory.

• 1:20Mayim Bialik?

  I'm an open-minded skeptic, but I want the mechanism.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  When I was the materialist neuroscientist that only believed in objectivity, I had this experience that said, wait a minute, there is an element of consciousness in everything. Our beliefs create our reality. All of the human beings, all the points of consciousness in this world are also contributing to our joint reality. This is a co-created universe.

• 1:50Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Wyom Bialik.

• 1:52Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 1:53Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown. Today feels like a special day.

• 1:57Jonathan Cohen?

  Why is that, Wyom?

• 1:58Mayim Bialik?

  Because we're about to have a very big conversation.

• 2:03Mayim Bialik?

  That kind of takes us from the concept of spirituality and it grounds it in a neurophysiological space, which I love. I love when we literally have an intersection of science and spirituality.

• 2:21Jonathan Cohen?

  One of the most powerful aspects of this conversation for me is how we are all boxing ourselves into a world that is keeping us constrained.

• 2:32Mayim Bialik?

  The notion that understanding consciousness can have such a practical application to your life, I don't think has ever been more clear than it is in our conversation today. We're speaking to a neuroscientist, an ascribed neuroscience, hardwired skeptical atheist, who had an experience that was inexplicable. The only way to describe it was that she was stepping outside of the five senses that her entire career was based on. Dr. Marjorie Woollacott, she's a professor and a member of the Institute of Neuroscience at the University

• 3:12Mayim Bialik?

  of Oregon. She trained at USC, got her doctorate there, but she also holds a degree in something that many of us don't know how to get at. And she's going to talk today about sci-phenomenon. She's going to talk about remote viewing. She's going to talk about telekinesis. What? She's going to talk about the ability of the mind to step outside of the world that we think exists in order to access not only a spiritual realm, but a realm that allows us the ability to transcend anxiety, depression, fear, even a sense of helplessness. It's a wonderful conversation and one that intersects with so many specialists we've spoken to

• 3:55Mayim Bialik?

  in the field of near-death experiences, sci-phenomenon, and other extrasensory perception.

• 4:01Jonathan Cohen?

  The episode also talks on telepathy, synchronicity, remote viewing, and many of the unbelievable phenomenon that we have explored here recently. You are not going to want to miss. This.

• 4:14Mayim Bialik?

  I read Infinite Awareness, The Awakening of a Scientific Mind, to prepare for our conversation today, but I also want to mention an incredible, incredible book that Dr. Wolakot has compiled, Spiritual Awakenings, Scientists and Academics Describe Their Experiences About People Who Are Used to Operating in a Materialistic Framework, Who Then Shift Over to a Larger Spiritual Understanding. Also, The Playful Universe, Synchronicity and the Nature of Consciousness, and we'll actually touch on synchronicity today. Is it a real thing that we can describe in the scientific world, or is it just something that you feel? Also, On the Banks of the River Styx, New Perspectives on Terminal Lucidity and Other Near-Death

• 4:57Mayim Bialik?

  Phenomenon, also something we'll touch on today. What is terminal lucidity, and what can it tell us about the nature of consciousness? We also have a lot of practical tips that Jonathan and I have used in our personal life, which we're going to speak about a little bit with Dr. Wolakot, but you're going to want to head over to Substack for the conversation about the practical application of everything we're going to talk about today. So make sure to go over to biologicbreakdown.substack.com. If you've never checked out Substack, now's the time. Download the app. You can choose whatever you want in terms of notifications, membership. We'd love to see you over there to continue this conversation and so many others. Let's welcome Dr. Marjorie Wolakot to the Breakdown. Break it down.

• 5:38Mayim Bialik?

  Before we ask you anything about the incredible fields that you have touched, what is your mission? What do you see your purpose is as a neuroscientist, you know, as a healer, as a practitioner? What's your mission?

• 5:51Speaker 00

  I think my mission is to share with other people that I used to be only tied to my five senses and the belief in only objective reality, and then something happened where my senses seemed to open up into a wider range, and now I saw things totally differently. And I want others to know, if they haven't already had that happen, that it is possible, and that we're a lot happier, and we get along a lot better with other people after we begin to feel that interconnection with other people. So it's like a heartfelt desire to let other people know how they will suffer less and how the world will suffer less if we can just begin to open ourselves up to that wider understanding.

• 6:34Mayim Bialik?

  Can you talk a little bit about the journey that you went on from being someone very tied to a materialistic view of the world, someone who was engaged in also quite a successful career grounded in the five senses? What happened that changed your perception of reality and consciousness, for lack of a better expression?

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Well, I think I'll even start like a little bit beforehand because yes, I was in a successful career. I was doing really well. I knew, like perhaps you did too, being a neuroscientist, I knew how to really do well in the world, how to focus my attention and really be able to study for tests and do well. So I had all that down. I had a wonderful postdoc at that particular time and then a new job. And yet, I was very unhappy, isn't exactly the world right word, but it was like I couldn't figure out why I wasn't feeling the fulfillment of all of those things. I had a beautiful, you know, a boyfriend that had a Porsche, I mean, all of those things that we think we're gonna like.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  And then what happened is that I was noticing that I would be sometimes like paranoid when I was be in a tall hotel going to a conference and I was on the 13th floor and then worried about fires. And I'm thinking, come on, what's going on? So that was sort of like this subtle dis-ease that was going on amidst the very successful life, whatever that means. And so then when my sister, who my boyfriend used to call a bubble head because she was more of a hippie and loved to, she was living in Hawaii, doing all of that wonderful exploration of spirituality, when she invited me to go to a meditation retreat for my birthday when I was starting a new position at a university in Virginia, I was intrigued and I was curious. I was open enough to say yes.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  She did remind me that my boyfriend then said, no, no, no, your sister doesn't know what she's talking about. I backed out and then finally I said yes again and she had to get me one of the last seats for this meditation retreat. So. Then what happens is that in the first morning of that retreat, I am sitting in the meditation session and we're told that the meditation master, the swami that is going to be coming around is going to initiate each one of us. And it's going to happen through the swami's touch. Now clearly, I'm a materialistic scientist and I'm thinking, what? But I also realized I was there for the weekend and why not put my skepticism aside for those two days and just be curious about what might happen?

• 9:08Mayim Bialik?

  So you were told that this man is going to come around and physically touch everyone there and something magical is supposed to happen?

• 9:18Speaker 00

  It didn't say anything about the magical thing, but simply an initiation so that I was supposed to decide what that would be. So here I hear him coming around the room and he has peacock feathers and he's touching people on the head and I can hear the whoosh, whoosh of the peacock feathers. And he's getting closer and my eyes are closed now at this point, but I'm totally engaged, like, well, what's going to happen? And when he comes to me, what I feel is his hand first of all on my head and then between my eyes. And I feel this energy that goes from his fingers to the point between my eyes on the bridge of the nose, down to the very center of my chest. And at that point, it feels like my heart, but not the physical heart, much more like a heart full of energy.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  And I feel this energy stop and then begin radiating outward from my heart, filling my whole being with a whole new feeling I've never felt before. And I remember that sense I had was this is love and I'm home. It's like my heart is my home. It's like, I didn't know that. And there was this feeling of incredible contentment. And I'm thinking, what on earth happened to me? So that was like the start of it. And I should mention that at the end of the intensive, in fact, my sister reminds me I left a little early because my boyfriend wanted me back home. But I'm now getting on the plane going home, back to Virginia. And I have bought the book that the swami has written. It was called Play a Consciousness. And I'm looking at his photo and saying, who are you?

• 10:43Speaker 00

  And what have you given me? I was just like not knowing what had happened to me. And I should say that night, I also had an interesting experience. I usually don't share, but I'll share today. And that is that at about 2:00 AM in the morning, I woke up and I could see in the corner of the room a photo of his own teacher. Because I'd seen that photo in the meditation ashram, and he was simply looking down on me with this beneficent smile. That was all total silence. And those things don't happen to me. It's never happened to me since. And there was just this feeling of, oh, you know, something has awakened inside of me that's allowing me to feel and experience things I haven't felt before.

• 11:23Mayim Bialik?

  I'm going to pretend like I just landed from another planet, which, as Jonathan will attest to, it often seems like I have. So when you say that you felt energy, what does that mean practically? What does it mean somatically? Because a lot of people might say, oh, you believe that when this swami touches you, something is going to happen. And whatever you think is what you sort of like pretend, right? This is the cynical view. You pretend like, oh, something amazing is going to happen. But when you describe someone placing their hand on your face and that you feel it resonate all the way down your spinal cord, and then all of a sudden you feel love, what is happening?

• 12:06Speaker 00

  So first of all, literally, it felt like a mini lightning bolt, like electricity, a tiny electric current. And it didn't even, in fact, go down my spinal cord. It went from here, just like, in effect, through my internal space to my heart. That was just the feeling of just this electricity, this mini lightning bolt, just going like that. And it wasn't like a giant bolt of lightning. It was just this very sweet electric current. And it landed in the heart, and then the heart felt, oh, my God. I mean, the heart felt very good. And that's why the words came, I'm home. I'm home. It's my heart that I'd never experienced before.

• 12:41Mayim Bialik?

  You were not on any psychedelic drug?

• 12:45Speaker 00

  I've never taken any psychedelics, not even yet.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  And I was an atheist, and I was a neuroscientist that was totally skeptical. So this happened, it's like, well, what on earth was that? I mean, that's why when I got on the plane, it's like, who are you? It's like, this thing doesn't happen. So there was that incredible question mark in my head about that, because I didn't understand what happened.

• 13:08Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:53Mayim Bialik?

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• 14:37Mayim Bialik?

  It's the best way to support our show.

• 14:39Jonathan Cohen?

  I am curious what you believe happened, both spiritually and physically. And then the second part is that when people have these experiences, often in retreats or some form of long-extended meditation, the question is, does it stick? Do we just go back to our old lives and forget that we have had this transformation? Or how does that realization integrate into your new life?

• 15:05Speaker 00

  Right, and I think that is the key issue. That in this case, it stuck so well that the next morning, I got up to meditate spontaneously, and I never have stopped. So literally, it was like that with this. And what it was is that I'd had that experience that weekend, and now I wanted it back. And I knew that like just beneath the surface of my awareness, there simmered this heartfelt ecstasy. I'd done it once, so why not try meditating? So I got up, I sat on my bed. And I meditated. And again, I did it the next morning and the next morning. And I gradually, as we all know, begin to like get a little bit more of a feel of it. And then begin to read about it. And it really transformed my life.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  But I should say, it transformed my life in a way which means that I was meditating at home and on weekends. And at the university, nobody knew a thing about it because I had to be credible as a neuroscientist. And so I had this very difficult experience of leading two lives. I began exploring the meditation, going to meditation retreats when I could. And my colleagues didn't know anything about it because if I were to dare mention the word meditation or something like that, I see this veil go over their eyes and you can see, I'm not interested. And it's like, okay, fine.

• 16:23Mayim Bialik?

  You were a secret seeker.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:27Mayim Bialik?

  As a neuroscientist, I mean, I have many, you know, kind of theories of the way that I might explain that physiological reaction. What did you understand at the time was happening, both on a neurophysiological level and then on a spiritual level?

• 16:44Speaker 00

  I would say that I had no idea what was happening on a neurophysiological level because it was unexplainable to me. Somebody cannot touch you. I mean, so yes, you'd have the sensation of touch, but you cannot then, inside of your body, feel an electric current go from here to the heart and, and then have that sensation of not your heart organ, but something else, open up with this exquisite love that you've never felt before. My neuroscientist inside of me was totally confused and confounded. And in a certain sense, it didn't care. And I will say something else that happened from that point on in my life. Most of the time, my heart, whatever we mean by my heart, it's like this incredible desire to know more was leading me.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  And the mind was behind it, sort of running behind to try to catch up to understand intellectually what was going on. And I would laugh about that sort of thing, that there was this incredible desire to know more, to begin to practice because it felt good. And the intellect was going, oh, my God, this makes no sense. In fact, I remember one time I was then going off a few years later to a conference in Sweden. I was giving a talk on my rehabilitation neuroscience, on posture, control and development in children. And all of my colleagues were atheists and skeptics. And I could feel my own belief in what had happened beginning to contract in that atmosphere.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  And I was like, oh, my goodness, it's fascinating how the mind can quickly go back to its old resonance of belief systems and really cover up its own experience. And that's always an interesting thing to ask, because I know the skeptics would say, well, maybe that was just an illusion that you had, wishful thinking. And of course, you're going back to your old way, because that's reality, objective reality. But it's not that way, because these inner senses have been opened up. And you begin to see that and feel it. And you say, this doesn't go with my old way of the five senses being my only senses, thinking.

• 18:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Now, let's tap into the yogi side or the mystical side of of you to try to explain that experience. I'll posit what I think may have happened and you sort of adjust, correct, add to this explanation. Could it be that this man, who has cultivated a very deep and, you know, long in the practice of internal connection, is my doesn't like when I use the next phrase, vibrating at a different frequency.

• 19:16Jonathan Cohen?

  And the neuroscientists can explain and try to translate that. That he is just vibrating in a way that when your heart and gets into connection with that, some sort of magical Star Wars-esque energy is passed into your body and ignite something that has been with you all along and is now giving you enough that your body says, oh, wait a second, there is something more beyond the veil that I have been living in. And that's enough to spark it. And that's what happens when people have these small moments of awakening and that people go to retreats and other things. The difference here that I want to get to after you help us.

• 19:56Jonathan Cohen?

  Adjust if how you see it is that for you it's stuck really well and a lot of people have these small moments of awakening have these little reminders here and there more so than ever before but sometimes then struggle to maintain the connection to it whether it be they aren't able to practice they're not motivated or whether it's that they go back and face a materialist world and the mind begins to contract around it.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  I would say yes you gave a good approximation of what one might say is happening from the yogic point of view and I you know I think my frustration is that okay from the materialist point of view we don't know how that could happen but here is the issue that I keep coming up to again and again do we have to have a mechanism in order to accept something or can we accept the veracity of the experience and the transformation that occurs in for example people's physiological senses their intuitions their shift in their understanding of reality and accept that we don't know what the mechanism is but something happened that is transformational so there is

• 21:02Speaker 00

  where I go and because I have looked at a number of philosophical traditions throughout history you find that this sort of awakening is expressed in many many traditions and I'll just take a step back so of course this energy is called the Kundalini in India and they talk about the awakening of this energy and how it can move through the whole spinal column and it may take your awareness out through the top of the head and I've had friends that talk about that happening spontaneously they were meditating or doing tai chi on their own but doing it religiously every day and this sort of thing began to happen so it doesn't need transmission from a meditator who really seems to have that awake it can happen in a number of ways but

• 21:47Speaker 00

  again in China it's called the Chi in Japan it's called the Chi in Christianity the Holy Spirit I think African tribesmen have a name for it as well so I think it's called maybe the Kia in some African tribes so All these cultures have experienced this and given it a different name. And they all say this is an energetic phenomenon. And I'm going, as a neuroscientist, when that happened, I don't understand because we only know about the nervous system and my spinal cord. And, and we don't have energy going up my spinal cord to the top of my head. And so the way they describe it in these systems is they say it is a subtle energy in the subtle system. And interestingly, transmission is described in many of these systems.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  And it can be person to person. It can be a transmission that happens during your sleep through what they might call grace, whatever grace means, that somehow something happens to you and you're ready to shift into a different mode of expression. Some people seem to walk into this world with it. And we know with their senses wide open. As you know, I have been working with Julia Mossbridge and we're working on children with non-speaking autism who seem, when they start being able to actually communicate, to have their senses wide open. And they have intuitive abilities, telepathic abilities. I've been studying and doing research with Diane Hennessy-Powell, Marina Wyler, looking at those things.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  So what happened at that moment, getting back to that moment of awakening, is that something opened up in terms of a curiosity due to my experience, which has continued to expand, that now makes me curious about seeing what I can find in other people and how I can connect the neuroscience with the experience.

• 23:35Mayim Bialik?

  One of the things that, you know, as scientists, we want to know is, is it verifiable? Is it repeatable? What is the formula for which we can try and understand it? So I want to make clear, the man who touched you on the bridge of your nose and caused your insides to have a fireworks party. It's not to say that every single person he touches will have that experience. And I want to be clear about that, that just as you indicated, that some people seem to be born with something, right? That's important for people to understand because a lot of people would say, well, he

• 24:16Mayim Bialik?

  touched me and it didn't happen, so that person, Marjorie, is crazy. And, you know, she's experiencing something that is a distortion. It's a perception problem. It's a delusion, right? But the idea is not that. The idea is that we are talking about a subtle energy system that does not necessarily obey the same laws that Newtonian physics does, right? This is a difference that it has to have a different category, which means that, and we've talked about this even with, you know, with Kai Dickens, when we talk about the telepathy tapes, it's not going to obey the same rules.

• 24:56Mayim Bialik?

  So if you start applying the same paradigm of scientific veracity to this, it will lead to a split. It will lead to a divisiveness in this field, which is exactly what we see. And it's people like you, it's people like Dr. Long and Dr. Grayson and Dr. Tucker, right? Who are trying to use experiences to show this is a thing that does not obey the same rules by which you would use the scientific method, right?

• 25:22Speaker 00

  That's right. And I just want to add the nuances to that, and that is that what we have looked at, and we can talk about the neurofilters in the brain that keep us from having wider awareness, that those people that have been deep in meditation or deep inside on psilocybin have their brain filters turned way down and they have wider awareness. The person with the NDE has basically things turned pretty much off and they have a wider awareness. So that's where the neuroscientist in me says it's not so simple as that. And we have to think about those nuances and whether when the person with an NDE has now left their body or the person with meditation, because often the person with meditation experience leaves their body.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  They're no longer connected in that same way to their beautiful nervous system. So Madison, Suri, and Terrick, et cetera. And yet, there they are. In fact, with their awareness moving to different rooms in a hospital, for example, and knowing everything around them. So there is, as you say, that frustration, that paradoxical nature of this phenomenon that it doesn't happen to everyone, but it happens more than just here and there. The materialists want to say it's anecdotal, but when you have so much quote unquote, "single person" evidence that is across cultures, I tend to think you have to begin to believe in the phenomenon, if not understanding the mechanism.

• 26:50Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of Jill Balty Taylor also. When she had the experience of her rational brain going offline and she was able to be mobile and conscious to some extent, she was having this kind of experience. Like, it's one of the best collaborative elements of near-death experiences and psychedelic transcendental experiences.

• 27:12Jonathan Cohen?

  I think what people want to understand is, "How do I wake up?" And sometimes people are waking up through hearing the fact that it's possible. So maybe we can start with some of the amazing stories that you share and that you've written about and researched about people who have experiences that we cannot explain through the materialist world that make us begin to explore something else.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  I'm not sure where to begin, but the person that came to mind was, again, Federico Fargine, who you both know well and maybe some of your listeners know well, who I got to know, I think, when a first documentary came out about him. And now I've met him a number of times personally, where, again, he was in a situation a little bit like me, though he didn't have a meditation teacher touching him in a retreat. He was simply feeling frustrated because he had all the money he could want, the best family in the world, invented the microprocessor, all of these things. He should be satisfied and he was not satisfied. And then in the middle of the night, at Christmas time, at Lake Tahoe. He wakes up in the middle of the night, he's thirsty, gets a drink of water and he's come sitting back down.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  Suddenly, this explosion in his heart, again, it's the heart, interestingly for him and me, comes and he feels, as you know, like this feeling of amazing light and love, and he doesn't know whether he's everything, like the waveform of the universe, or whether he's a particle and a separate individual being with this happening. But it's like, the point is, yes, it's possible. And for many of us, it seems to happen when we decide we're dissatisfied with our objective five senses reality, that they aren't fulfilling us enough, career, family, everything else, and something inside says, I want more. And this is the way I look at it a bit, it's almost like that feeling, like your egoic,

• 29:05Speaker 00

  like center is beginning to collapse a little. It's like you thought you had everything in line and you didn't. And it opens up a little bit of a crack in that collapse to allow some other phenomenon to happen, whether we call it another energy to come in to help wake you up. But it allows you, I would say, maybe the way I would describe it is, it allows you to begin to feel an energetic connection with the rest of the world, instead of feeling so separate in that little egoic shell that we have around us to protect us and make sure that we look good to everybody else and we feel good, etc. It's like that cracks and then we find something maybe much better.

• 29:41Mayim Bialik?

  I think one of the things that, you know, many people might be wondering, especially if they're struggling, especially if they're in a place where they're feeling discontented, like they don't feel like things are coming together in their life, they're scared about the world events, they're scared about what's happening in the country. Can I achieve some sense of peace, security, comfort, safety in my nervous system? If I don't have this electrical lightning bolt experience in my body? Because for many of us, when we hear these experiences, it's like, oh, that's great for you. I'm really happy for you. What would you say to the rest of us who are meditating and sitting and

• 30:26Mayim Bialik?

  Not feeling a lightning bolt, we're not feeling fireworks going off, we're doing the Kundalini yoga and they're like, oh, it's like a serpent coiling. And I'm like, it just feels like my ass on a yoga mat. What do you say to those people? Do we keep trying? Are we genetically not programmed to have that? What can we get close to short of taking a lot of mushrooms and going into nature?

• 30:50Speaker 00

  That's a really good question, and I would say that when I did these studies now that are published on people that have had meditative awakenings. And again, there are two of them. One was on average people, I think it was like maybe 300 and some odd people that were in one study. The other one was on scientists and academics. And we looked at what triggered their opening that we might call a heart opening. And there were a number of things which are what you're talking about people normally doing. But for whatever the reasons for them, that happened to like move beyond some sort of a threshold that allowed something more to go. And so, of course, they are doing those practices like meditation, yoga, et cetera.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  But also hanging out with other people that have had this awakening because there is a certain feeling of transmission when you're around people like that.

• 31:42Mayim Bialik?

  I need to get new friends, that's what you're telling me?

• 31:45Speaker 00

  Right, make new friends.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  And so it's an interesting phenomenon, but I have certainly noticed, and in fact, they often say that when you're in a group that meditates, it's easier to induce yourself into that quiet state of mind. And here, give an example, I think that we think about the fact that, well, I'm having trouble meditating. And then you find out, well, I've been watching TV until late at night. I love going shopping on the web and buying all these clothes and I love going out to all the malls. And I, and I do this and I do that. And yes, I like going out with my friends and drinking and partying all night. And then I get up next morning and I can't meditate. What's wrong with me? I fall asleep.

• 32:21Mayim Bialik?

  So change my life and get new friends. Got it.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  There, yeah, so, so often in a meditation retreat, people will ask that, why can't I get there? And then it's like, well, look at your life. So just talk to yourself about what you're doing and are you spending the amount of time on quieting your mind compared to how you're seeking for distractions throughout the day? Or giving yourself totally to your work because you think if I put 110% effort into my work, I'm going to be a better person. Well, maybe you could cut it back to 80% for your work and have a little more time for quieting your mind and maybe that would do it. So I think sometimes it's a little bit of honest introspection if you really want it.

• 33:03Speaker 03

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• 33:33Jonathan Cohen?

  If I drink four cups of coffee in a day, it's much harder to feel still and connected to everything else because my whole system is like, what do I do next? What do I do next? And that's great if I have to sit down and write a lot or research a lot, but it is not very good at feeling connected to the entire universe.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  I think that's the point. It's like each one of these traditions has many tools that we can use to quiet our mind. And everybody will find a different tool that works for them. And that's the key issue. When a person asks, for example, in a meditation retreat, well, what do I need to do to get into that state? And it's like, look, you need to listen inside and try different things and say, oh, for example, a lot of traditions say, repeat a mantra.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  You know, the Catholic tradition has their own rosary that they repeat. In Indian traditions, there will be a particular set of mantras, including one for the breath. It's like so ham or ham saw. This is quieting mantra. And if you keep focusing your mind on that, the thoughts go away and you can drop into that thought-free state. And of course, again, bringing in the research, when I look at the research on deep meditators, you find that their default mode network, which is as part of the cerebral cortex that loves to create a beautiful egoic narrative. About who I am and what's going on in my life, it quiets down. You can see that in the scans from the FMRI. It's like, oh, yeah. And that's where I begin to feel expansion in my chest.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  So I think we almost have sort of quote unquote biofeedback ways of knowing if we're getting there. And then, oh, that's why it feels so good. Because now all these different filters in my brain are beginning to quiet down. And I'm now beginning to feel more interconnected. Bernardo Castro talks about this whole idea of dissociation. And the fact that we're this, almost like a, what his example is a person that has multiple personality disorder. And they have multiple personalities. And when they're healed, they become one again. It's like we are dissociated from everybody else. And when our barriers become more porous, we then begin to feel more interconnected with people. And it's like, oh, that's who I am.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  I'm connected with everybody else. And then we feel better in spite of the world events that are going on around us.

• 35:56Mayim Bialik?

  I wonder if you can talk a little bit about some of the populations that you believe have access to this in a way that is more fluid. What is it about certain people? And in particular, you know, certain people who may also exhibit sci phenomenon, extrasensory abilities. What is the Venn diagram here? Is it that having special abilities makes you more open? Is it that being gifted at being more open allows you to access extrasensory things? What is the overlap here? What comes first?

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, it's the chicken egg thing. And I'll just give you a few examples because I think there's a lot of variation. As we know, from Bruce Grayson, Jeffrey Long, et cetera, that when a person has a near death experience, they often come back, whether they wanted or not, with these psi abilities. And I know Jeff Kripal talks about that with the woman Elizabeth Krone. And she did not want those. Recognitions about plane crashes and knowing what other people thought. But that's what happened. So something energetically had shifted inside of her. So these portals, whatever we mean by portals, that go beyond time and space are open for her. And I know she probably prayed to let go of them because they caused a lot of problems.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  So there's one example that you can see something about the near death experience, the heart stopping shifted something inside of her and now everything's wide open. For other people, it is going into deep meditation. And then, in fact, they have this moment in deep meditation. For example, maybe when this energetic awakening happens, they leave their body and they come back again with this intuitive awareness that they didn't have before. Then there are the kids that are non-speaking autistic and they don't have normal communication abilities. Their nervous system is clearly divergent from the average person. But in the process of development, or as they came in,

• 38:04Speaker 00

  something about their genetics and their nervous system allows them to now communicate with other people, hear their thoughts and receive thoughts from other people and give thoughts in ways that the rest of us can't do. So when we say, what do we think is going on? I think that it clearly can be accessed in different ways. Near death experiences, deep meditation, spontaneous awakenings. And also there are certain people that come into the world this way. And those are the ones also that we may call mediums. I mean, I think at some point I'd love to talk about mediumship because as a neuroscientist, I said, you know, this to mediumship, I said, look, this is my reason for saying that.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  It's like, because if there are other entities in the world, there might be bad entities as well as good entities. And I don't want any bad entities, so I'm just going to say mediumship can't happen. And so when I was writing that book and I went to the University of Virginia to talk to Ed Kelly, who does a lot of this research, and I showed him my book before it was published. He said, well, it's a great book, but you left out one chapter. And I said, well, what's that? And he said, Mediumship. And I said, oh, well, that's because I'm afraid for these reasons of contacting entities that are not in front of me. And he laughed. And of course, it allowed me to open up to looking at the research and finding out it's amazing what people can do,

• 39:29Speaker 00

  including, as you know, the interactions with their loved ones on the other side. And having now written a paper with Chris Rowe and others on about almost a thousand people that had had mediumship experiences with their loved ones who had died. I see how it seems very compelling to me that those people have this portal open and they somehow can receive that information from someone who has died. Again, skeptic like I was before would say, excuse me. But the fact that in these studies, they find that that person on the other side gives the person on this side key information that nobody knows. And I think one example was a, in fact, that the person on the other side contacted the friend of the family

• 40:13Speaker 00

  because the family couldn't connect, couldn't really feel this. And they said, your father wants you to know the key. And when they heard the key, they thought it was going to be the key to love. But so the key to the gun cabinet is in this particular place. And I know you want to get rid of the guns that I had before I died. So it's like, here we have examples of, again, that opening.

• 40:35Mayim Bialik?

  I want you to kind of take us into this opening, especially from, you know, and I am. I'm an, I'm an open minded skeptic, but I do, I want the mechanism. I want a potential mechanism. My science brain can wrap itself around a lack of reproducibility. My science brain can, can get around a lot of things. But this is where I'm curious, and I don't have an answer to this. That's why we're having you here. You know, what is your kind of larger theory of consciousness? You know, we can say that consciousness is fundamental. A lot of people don't understand what that is. But explain what, what you're proposing.

• 41:15Mayim Bialik?

  Because the notion that I'm accessing information and communication with people who are dead is a little A little bit hard to wrap my head around, right? What is the theory of the experience of information in the universe? Is it based in the Akashic records? Is it based in a, you know, in a, in a kind of a theoretical quantum field? What is your theory of what's actually happening in the consciousness plane?

• 41:42Speaker 00

  I will actually tell people that one way to get a better understanding of this, and for me, it was from a academic scientific perspective, but it was a book that was wonderful that you have probably read. It's More Than Allegory by Bernardo Castro. So let me just say something that Bernardo said in that book that really helped me. So from this perspective, this theory that there is a consciousness that is infinite and unbound, and it's like a probabilistic field, that then is what actually creates what we might call points of consciousness, all of us, that then come into a time-space realm. That's how I'm at least envisioning it.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  He said that anything that comes into this time-space realm has to take on a belief of gravity, of time, of space around them. And that means that every mountain, every insect, every bird, every human, every plant has taken on that belief system, or they wouldn't be here. So the plants don't go flying off into the air. The mountains don't go flying away. They have taken on those beliefs at some level of their consciousness or their proto-consciousness, in the case of a mountain.

• 42:57Mayim Bialik?

  Beautiful.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  And so then, we then, as you become an insect, you take on another set of beliefs that allows you to function in an insect body. And we humans take on another set of belief that says, we have five senses, and that's all that we can use. And we can go on and on, cultural beliefs, et cetera. Beliefs in the way we act in our family. I mean, Just a brief aside, I mean, when I would go to couples counseling with my husband in the past, what the counselor would say, "You have taken on beliefs from your parents that this sponge can only be used for a countertop sponge and this sponge only for dishes, and you're making that other person go to your beliefs." It's like, no, this is not a reality. This is not a truth. And so, I love Bernardo Castrop's way of looking

• 43:40Speaker 00

  at this. And so, you have, and so, but here is the key point. He said, "How do you get rid of a belief? You can't just say, 'I'm gonna get rid of it intellectually.' I can't just say, 'Oh, I'm getting rid of that one.'" You have to go under the belief and literally dig it out like a thorn that's inside of you and pull it out from underneath, and then you have the chance of actually letting go of that belief. I think that's profound, because then I can say, "Okay, so I didn't have a belief in mediumship. I absolutely didn't. Well, now I have to think about what that belief is, and is there a way for me to go underneath it?" And in my case, it's by doing research and really being very, very curious, and then having my own experiences. Because, in fact, once your inner senses,

• 44:22Speaker 00

  I will call them, become open to this interconnection, then you begin to have them. And so, again, think about it, if time and space are a belief system, certain people can go beyond time and space. And I think that's what those with precognition are able to do, and those that have had a near-death experience, like Elizabeth Krone, are able to do. Somehow, that dissociation that we have has become porous for them, and they're able to move into this realm that is actually beyond time and space and have those understandings.

• 44:57Mayim Bialik?

  It's pretty good. You're pretty good at this.

• 45:00Jonathan Cohen?

  Sponges can be used for anything you want.

• 45:02Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, that's blowing my mind, because I hate what sponges he chooses and the way he uses them. It's funny you mentioned sponges. This is something, though, that I think Jonathan and I talk about a lot, and something that on Jonathan's Substack page, Practical Spirituality, he talks about, really, as it weaves its way through our whole lives. And what you're talking about, it's kind of a neurological understanding of the stories that we construct about ourselves. So, we come into this world, whether it's by the nature of the way the universe was constructed, right, for whatever consciousness I have and whatever incarnation I'm in, right, in this lifetime, right? For me, as I am now, I come in with a set of, you know, kind of hardware.

• 45:46Mayim Bialik?

  But then the software is something that is given to me by my parents, my ancestry, like whatever that load is, that emotional load, that genetic load, that epigenetic load, that is then what gets put into this system. And if we think about it as, you know, kind of a simulation of sorts, right, that's what, that's the program that is running for me right now. And then I'm interacting with everyone else's program and what's running for them. So when we try and be in relation with other people, we're coming with all of the stories that we come with, they're coming with all the stories that they're coming with. Where is that intersection? And what a beautiful place to also open up

• 46:26Mayim Bialik?

  to, what if your relationship had a spiritual consciousness? What if your relationship was able to progress, not just romantic relationships, but the interactions you have with other people is your molecules and their molecules all mixing together. And there is this other plane that we're not having access to on a five senses level that's existing all the time. You know, when people say to me like, I don't know if I believe in God. It's like, well, God is right there. It's just like, do you want to turn towards it or don't you? That's kind of my perspective. I feel the same way about this level of access. It's there. Do we know how to turn towards it?

• 47:03Speaker 00

  And I want to add that thing because we talk about what, what do the neuroscientists, do neuroscientists here say about these things? Well, when I have looked at that research on, for example, placebo effects or energetic healing or whatever, here's the interesting thing. What you find is that when you believe, and again, here we get back to belief, when you believe the placebo will work, that you think you could be getting the medication, you then change different physiological parameters of your body. So if you think you're getting a pain medication, what happens is that the pain areas in your brain actually begin to turn down because your mind, your belief has allowed your physiology to shift.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  And we think about genetics and then we find that, oh yes, that I can shift my genetics. Through meditation. If I, I think in my book, we talk about the Mr. Wright, who had lymphoma and he believed that this particular drug, probiont, was going to heal him. He was healed within a day or two and then got out of the hospital in 10 days. But then he heard that it didn't work from the news and then he got sick again. And you're thinking, that mind, that belief system is really powerful. And if we could take advantage of that in the right way, I mean, things could really change in our lives. And I want to add one more thing too, because it relates to energy healing. Sometimes somebody will have an energy healer, heal them and they will be totally fine.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  And then they move into a skeptical group of people. And they lose their faith in what happened and their problems come back. And so I just say, hey, the mind is a lot more powerful than we think.

• 48:43Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so the message is change your life, get new friends. And anytime you're around people who remind you of your old friends, punch them in the face and run away.

• 48:54Mayim Bialik?

  Well, this is the notion of when people, you know, get sober in Alcoholics Anonymous, you'll often hear this.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:00Mayim Bialik?

  They're told, don't go to the places you went, don't talk to the people you talk to. Because in what we know, there are accessory environments specifically around addiction. If you're around people who are lighting up and you're trying not to smoke, right? The desire, of course, everyone knows this, the desire to smoke is more. You're saying that you can apply that to your energetic and emotional and psychological state. This is why people like to be around people who have high vibrations, good vibrations. Jonathan's like, this is why when you're depressed, the whole house is depressed. I get it, Jonathan.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Yes, I mean, that is so true. And I, I think, I want to also mention though, because I have a good friend, Anne, that when we talk about these things and beliefs, she gets contracted. And that's because she says, so often, somebody has cancer and somebody says, well, you caused it because of your beliefs. And what I try to say in that case is that when we say our beliefs create our Reality, that is a nuanced phrase. And what it means is that, yes, I do have a contribution to creating my reality. We've just talked about that, but all of the human beings, all the points of consciousness in this world are also contributing to our joint reality. And we have to understand that I can't change our political situation, just me with my beliefs.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  But if the whole world were able to actually shift our belief system toward interconnection and support, maybe we could begin to move things. That's asking a lot, but it's interesting that we just have to accept that this is a co-created universe.

• 50:36Jonathan Cohen?

  Where the rationalists get hung up is on what is the slippery slope? How far can I take this? And I come from a long line of rationalists and skeptics, and I experienced my spiritual exploration as a voracious explorer with a very healthy dose of skepticism along the entire way. I can talk about profound experiences and intuition and precognitive dreams, and then I'll fall back and question everything. Did any of that happen? And then I'll believe again, and I fluctuate between these states. More belief and embodied belief now than ever before.

• 51:18Jonathan Cohen?

  But I think what, where people, you know, start to question and want to have an understanding is like, we see people who have gone off the deep end, who are living in their car, believing that, you know, everything is going to work out, and they're not taking any action in the real world. So where, can you help us paint a picture of like, how do I do this and stretch my beliefs and look at questioning the limits that I've created? Reevaluating what the sponges are for in all areas of my life? What's possible, right? Like, help us paint a picture of what's possible without going off the deep end to say, "I don't have to take any responsibility and money's just gonna show up in the mail."

• 52:00Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, there might be people who are like, "I'm gonna leave it up to the universe." And they end up not able to support themselves. Or they end up, you know, and there's nothing wrong, like, if people live in their car and they want to, right? But what Jonathan is saying is a lot of people feel like, "I don't like my job, it doesn't fulfill me, so I'm gonna quit it because I need the universe to provide for me." Or, "I need to pursue a life of spiritual connection, I can't do that in a corporate job, so I'm gonna leave my life." And then they find that there's not something... God doesn't always provide the way, right? We want God to.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think, of course, there are a number of beautiful nuances about that. The first for me is that when I was the materialist neuroscientist that only believed in objectivity and the material realm, I left out my experience. And then I had this experience that said, "Wait a minute, there's more than the objectivity. It's more than the five senses." And so, what I... In fact, when I occasionally talk with Bernardo Castrop, I feel that his analytic idealism, because he's talking to materialists, is very analytical, and he calls it analytic philosophy that has to be rational. But I say, "Why can't we add in what he now calls continental philosophy, which is phenomenology, which is experience? Why can't we have both?"

• 53:18Speaker 00

  And then, you can watch your experience, you can say, "My experience will never betray me in the sense that it will tell me what I'm feeling now." But then, I bring in the intellect and say, "Ah, is this a healthy thing for me to think about and do? Is this going to fulfill my objectives in the universe?" And so, I have a nice, healthy combination of what I call the yin and the yang of the universe. And I'm always trying to find that balance between the heart and the mind. And the ways to actually fulfill me. In fact, one person that I talk to a lot, a friend named Jeb, Jeb Barton, said that he believes that what we really need to do is always look at... What will fulfill us?

• 54:03Speaker 00

  And then in each moment, as we're doing different things, or we're going to different parts of our career, we just ask, is this fulfilling? So if you think that God's gonna provide for you and you can just be out there in your car, we'll say, has this worked out for me? Is this fulfilling? Well, it hasn't. Maybe I should change. So I think it's having those constant, like, just talking to yourself and saying, giving yourself feedback. Well, you know, maybe I need to get back, do a job and get a house again, and I will be fulfilled. And what my friend Jeb even says is that a materialist is fine for them to go into looking at objective reality, but then they have to ask, is this fulfilling me? And I, as a materialist, found it wasn't fulfilling me, and I needed to begin to try to quiet my mind down and pay attention to my inner senses,

• 54:49Speaker 00

  my heart, my connection with other people. And then I found a lot more fulfillment.

• 54:53Jonathan Cohen?

  Is consciousness in the brain? People are curious. I've heard it described, and I really like, that we are like a cellphone, receiving information across a larger consciousness system. Let's start there and then go into collective consciousness, depending on your answer.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Consciousness is in the brain. It's in every cell of our body. It's in the plants around us, et cetera. In other words, there is an element of consciousness in everything. Because I have a non-dual philosophy that says each one of us has that as our essence. And that means that my cells in my heart all are cooperating together to make the heart function, that there is a certain perception and action going on in every cell that's helping it make this body survive. So saying that, yes, consciousness is in my brain, but not in the way we think. My brain is not producing my awareness. That's the difference. So, yes, so I'm coming from that place. So I, as consciousness, decided

• 55:56Speaker 00

  I wanted to play in this material time-space realm. And so I came down here and got myself a body, but every part of my body is also conscious and aware. So, yes, I can feel separate from other people, but there's a connection that is also there that usually I'm not aware of.

• 56:18Mayim Bialik?

  I hate to do it, but we're going to hit pause on our conversation with Dr. Marjorie Wolakot because there is so much more that we want to cover. In part two of our conversation with Dr. Wolakot, we're going to talk about terminal lucidity, different states of consciousness in terms of levels of consciousness. What do NDEs tell us about the fundamental nature of consciousness? As well as what is synchronicity? Is it a thing?

• 56:43Jonathan Cohen?

  We also talk about telepathy and energy as well as the dangers of dark energy and how to protect yourself.

• 56:51Mayim Bialik?

  There's so much more in part two of our conversation. We can't wait for you to hear it. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we will see you next time.