Pod Insights The Rest Is Politics 180. Question Time: Is Suella Braverman pretending to be right-wing? About this episode Would Keir Starmer embrace proportional representation? Is the Tory right just a group of political entrepreneurs using their hardline views to climb the greasy pole? Is a wealth tax the only way to address the problem of funding adult social care? Join Alastair and Rory as they answer all these questions and more on this week’s Question Time.
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Transcript 5,686 words · 12 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:04 Rory Stewart? This episode is brought to you by NordVPN.
0:06 Alastair Campbell? And I must thank NordVPN because on my Grand European Tour with Fiona, I was away from the Hawthorns for West Bromwich against Burnley, but I managed to watch it. There you go.
0:19 Rory Stewart? I actually had a NordVPN thank you. I was in the new Starbucks here in Crete. And of course, the thing flashed up, saying this is an unsecured public network. And I was able to go to my VPN. It was a little reminder of something we often forget when we're in all those cafes and things, which is actually genuinely, people can do all kinds of weird cyber attacks and spying if you don't have a virtual private network when you're sitting in that Starbucks.
0:42 Alastair Campbell? Well, I think, are you not really sort of proud of me that I managed to do this? Or should I say Fiona managed to do this?
0:49 Rory Stewart? I'm incredibly proud of you. That's a tech transformation. So to get the best discount off your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com/risterspolitics. That's nordvpn.com/risterspolitics. And the link is in the episode description.
1:05 Speaker 02 Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.
1:10 Speaker 03 Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo.
1:23 Speaker 04 Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.
1:59 Speaker 02 Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
2:06 Speaker 05 This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents. But choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes.
2:42 Alastair Campbell? Welcome to the Rest is Politics Question Time with me, Alastair Campbell.
2:45 Rory Stewart? And with me, Rory Stewart. And Alistair, I have a question to start you off. Simon Hewitt, does Alistair regret Labour not going ahead with proportional representation in their 1997 government after the work done with Charles Kennedy in opposition?
3:01 Alastair Campbell? I don't regret being part of a Labour Party that won three successive general elections, which is a mealy mouthed way of saying that once we got into power, that sort of went on to the back burner. Do I think that at some point in the near future, we need a radical fundamental change of the way we do politics, of which looking at our electoral system, not just in Westminster, but other elections as well, has to be a part? Yes, I do.
3:28 Rory Stewart? Very good.
3:29 Alastair Campbell? So I'm admitting to the political opportunism at the heart of the stance that I took very, I actually quite violently, to be honest. I can remember we used to have these debates and I was very much on the John Prescott side of the argument, saying, why on earth are we talking about, you know, giving up the old system that seems to give us power? But I have, as you know Rory, from our own discussions on this, I've had a bit of a, I'm on a journey, as they say.
3:54 Rory Stewart? And do you think, what would it take realistically to get Keir Starmer to do it? Would it have to be a minority government where he was in coalition with the Lib Dems? Or do you think he might do it on his own?
4:04 Alastair Campbell? He doesn't seem to be making any signal at all that it's something that appeals to him, whether that's, I don't know, because a lot of the trade unions I know are very, very opposed to it. I suppose it would be that, but also I do get the sense of Keir Starmer that he's quite pragmatic in the way that he kind of does track what people are saying and thinking and doing. Let's say Labour did get into a sort of minority government situation, and obviously they're going to go all out not to be in that position. Then I think it will come a point where the country starts to make its voice heard way more volubly than it has thus far.
4:35 Rory Stewart? And why are the trade unions trashing its proportional representation?
4:38 Alastair Campbell? I think in part because of the point I made, that actually they, if you can get a majority government on, you know, 40% of the vote, then why not have that, especially in a country where the Tories have been, you know, in power for so long. But actually, that argument works against. So that's, I think, why we need to rethink it. I'd love to see a line in Labour's manifesto that just said, "Given the problem in which so much of our politics is held, there will be a review of our electoral systems around the UK." I think that'd be a good thing to do. Compulsory education, Oliver War. In the recent German local elections, which polled about 25% of the population, the Freie Alternative für Deutschland won 20% of the vote. A quick analysis shows that voters were more likely to vote AFD if they left education early.
5:21 Alastair Campbell? It seems uncorrelated to unemployment. In order to counter extremism, do you think we should make more continued formal education compulsory? If so, how and in what subjects?
5:31 Rory Stewart? Boy, that's interesting. I've never heard the argument made that the reason to do it is to change people's political opinions. I'm afraid if I was really in charge of an education budget, I think I would target midlife education, because I think AI is going to mean that millions of people are likely to find their jobs disappearing and they will need to retrain in their 40s for a different profession. So I'd probably put the money into being able to pay for everybody to take a year to learn a new profession in their 30s or 40s, rather than try to extend the time they spend as a younger person.
6:02 Alastair Campbell? Yeah, and I see that. I don't necessarily support what Oliver's saying, but I do think that in the UK, we have a real problem of political education and political culture. And, you know, that's why you and I both sort of have written the books that we've done in a way, is actually to sort of draw attention to what politics has become. But I don't think it's enough just to blame the politicians. I think there's a real... I think people don't really try necessarily to be very informed about politics a lot of the time, and that's something I think we could quite easily correct in schools. I think if we actually did teach primary school kids the very, very basics of politics and political history, I think that'd be a good thing.
6:40 Rory Stewart? Okay, question for you. Tara Ward, do you think that Suella Braverman and the radical right members of the Conservative Party really stand behind her populist comments and theories, or are they just trying to attract new and different voters who might have ignored them in the past?
6:56 Alastair Campbell? It's very hard for me to answer that because I think I've only ever met her once. I don't know her, I don't know how she operates, I don't know how she thinks. I don't believe that, deep down, she, or Rishi Sunak, or anyone else, believes that what they're doing in relation to Rwanda, for example, is the way to resolve the small boats problem. I don't believe that when she was making the speech that she made about a hurricane of immigrants, I think she was just trying to provoke people like me and people like you to say that this is, you know, over the top, as a way of then appealing to people who, for whom immigration is a really, really significant problem and something that makes them get very emotional about politics. So I think what she's doing is nakedly political,
7:41 Alastair Campbell? and I think it's about her positioning. Now, I could be wrong, it may be that she fundamentally believes this, but I think it's about positioning in the party.
7:48 Rory Stewart? No, I think you're right. I think she's a political entrepreneur, and a lot of these people are. I've been looking into her a bit. She was an Erasmus scholar back in the day, so European as Erasmus scholar, studied in, I think, France. She then, I think, set up with Cherie Blair the Africa Justice Foundation in 2010, where she was talking about democracy and the rule of law in Africa. So she's been on what one calls a bit of a journey, and it's true for Priti Patel and Liz Truss, who were part of Cameron's A-list of what was supposed to be centrist compassionate conservatives that he was bringing in to make the party more diverse and more relatable. The fact that all those three have ended up on the radical right of the party, I think is more about the fact that that's where they see the opportunity. They can see these populist movements in Europe, they can see that this
8:33 Rory Stewart? Particularly potent mixture of culture war and immigration chat appeals to twenty twenty five percent of the electorate and they're going off there. I don't think it really reflects the the beliefs they had before they were members of parliament.
8:45 Alastair Campbell? Political entrepreneur. Interesting.
8:48 Rory Stewart? Yeah, but worrying, very worrying. I mean, that they think there's opportunity there and really worrying for what it suggests. Yeah.
8:54 Alastair Campbell? Here's a question that slightly relates to that. Green Party policies in Europe slash Luxembourg. Anne-Marie Benoit. Today Luxembourg had its general election with the Green Party losing a significant vote, nearly half of its votes from the last elections in twenty eighteen. In line with the drop in support for green climate policies elsewhere in Europe, why do you think this is happening? Does this concern you, given how vital it will be to deliver decarbonising policies in the next decade? Or do you think the other parties will be equally as ambitious in achieving net zero? We saw this as well in, we've just had elections in Bavaria, which of course is one of the most important German states and the CSU, which is this kind of sister party of the CDU Merkel's party have won.
9:35 Alastair Campbell? But I read lots of stuff during the campaign about Green Party politicians being attacked, being spat at, being picked on in the streets, being booed and as they went around the place. A lot of it by the the far right, who increased their score up to, they they they, I think, were on about eighteen percent when the whole thing was counted. But all the parties in Scholz's coalition, which of course includes the Greens, have have slipped. The centre left, SPD, the governing party, the FDP and the Greens have slipped.
10:08 Rory Stewart? I think one problem here is that the earlier days of making progress on environmental policies now look as though they were a bit low hanging fruit. So Britain made a lot of progress on decarbonisation just by going from coal to gas in terms of CO2 emissions, which didn't have much impact on the average voter. We're now getting to the tougher stuff to try to get to net zero, which is really often involving putting taxes on people's energy bills or taxes on people's fuel bills in their cars. And I think that as the rubber hits the road and as the burden often of environmental taxes is falling on poorer people, the green movement is going to get itself in more difficult situation than it would have been in five, 10 years ago.
10:53 Alastair Campbell? But it's clear that the the right, the radical right, has decided that this is the issue, you know, for for people like Farage, it's becoming the new Brexit. For the AFD in Germany, they're making a big play of it, not least in this campaign that we've just had. The SPD, by the way, Scholz's governing party, they're down to single figures in Bavaria. Now, it's never been a stronghold, let's make that clear. But that is not good. That is not good.
11:15 Rory Stewart? No, and of course, the problem is that we talked about political entrepreneurs. I mean, these populists are real political entrepreneurs. And this grisly figure of Viktor Orban, sitting there in Hungary, he of course thinks the whole world is moving in his direction. He thinks liberal democracy is over. And every one of these little victories, every one of these rises convinces him of it more and more, you know, and he's very much sees a world dominated by Xi Jinping and people like Putin. He's looking forward to Trump coming back in. And he's really hoping Le Pen is going to be the next president of France, et cetera. And all of this is playing out of the same populist playbook.
11:49 Alastair Campbell? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Rory, time for a quick break.
11:54 Speaker 03 Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo.
12:12 Speaker 04 Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis, or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.
12:48 Speaker 03 Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
12:55 Speaker 05 This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents. But choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes.
13:23 Speaker 06 Payday bars have a bone to pick with the other candy bars. Enough with the toppings and layers and stuff, kay? Payday bars are just salty crunchy peanuts and sweet caramel. Delicious. Payday Peanut Caramel Bar.
13:43 Alastair Campbell? Rosanne Bostock, how can Rishi Sunak have the power to stop HS2 at Birmingham without asking Parliament? HS2 was originally a parliamentary decision. Surely in order to cancel it, it should be discussed and voted on in Parliament. You presumably were part of that vote.
13:59 Rory Stewart? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, I'd be interested to know what you think about this. I mean, part of the problem of having an uncodified constitution is it's very, very ambiguous. So one of the examples of this is David Cameron started the idea that every military intervention needed to have a parliamentary vote, and he was referring back to Tony Blair's vote on Iraq on that. Before that, prime ministers didn't think they needed parliamentary votes before taking military action. It's now becoming, as it were, a kind of unwritten convention. Would you have thought when you were in Parliament in 97 that you would have naturally gone to Parliament about a big infrastructure decision like this?
14:35 Alastair Campbell? Oh, I think so. I'm trying to think if there are anything comparable that we did.
14:40 Rory Stewart? Crossrail and things, did you go to parliamentary votes on that?
14:43 Alastair Campbell? There was a legislative crossrail, wasn't there?
14:45 Rory Stewart? Yeah, I think that the legislation, sometimes there's differences, isn't there, between the enabling legislation that the government needs to get the legal permissions to do things?
14:53 Alastair Campbell? Yeah.
14:54 Rory Stewart? Is maybe a bit different from the Parliament making the decision as opposed to the Prime Minister on whether to go ahead with the funding for something.
14:59 Alastair Campbell? I do think that there was something quite odd about the way that Sunak conducted himself at his party conference, and honestly, the way he talks about himself as well. He very rarely talks about the government. He talks about himself, making decisions that he has decided, that he is thinking are the right thing for the country to do. And I think on this one, it does feel like the three big things that he announced in his conference speech, HS2, changing the exam system for older kids, and the, you know...
15:29 Rory Stewart? Ban on smoking.
15:29 Alastair Campbell? Ban on smoking. I do think that there was a sense that that was him sort of just picking, you know, going for the things that he finds particularly interesting, as opposed to this having emerged through some sort of cabinet policy discussion. And I think there will be a move to have this voted on. Isn't Liz Truss already flexing her muscles about this?
15:47 Rory Stewart? Yeah. So what do you, what do you think about it? So to put the case for Rishi Sunak, I guess he would say, look, when this project was first put forward under Gordon Brown or before Gordon Brown, people were talking about it costing 16 billion, then 20 billion, and it was going to have 100 billion worth of benefits. But by the time the cost to the project was over 100 billion, the cost benefit analysis doesn't look so good. And I guess what he's saying is that you can't be driven by sunk cost, that it's very, very bad policymaking to just say, oh, for goodness sake, we spent so much, we've got to push ahead with it anyway. And of course, I liked the idea that he was going to prioritise investment in the North and prioritise the Leeds Manchester connection. Obviously, the Cumberton MP, I was always saying, I would much prefer them to build a Leeds Manchester line than worry
16:31 Rory Stewart? about the connections between London and the rest.
16:33 Alastair Campbell? I've been hearing about improving Leeds Manchester for many, many, many years. I think his problem is I'm not sure that people believed the so-called plan for this 36 billion pounds. I don't know if you saw Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, being interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire at the weekend, but my God, it was not good. I mean, the whole thing just unraveled. She was going one by one through these promises that had been made. And by the end of it, he was saying, no, no, they were just sort of indications of what you could build if you decided that's what you wanted to do. It was not good.
17:04 Rory Stewart? There, there's a political problem, isn't there? To get on to the inside baseball of this, this is something you must have thought about a lot.
17:10 Alastair Campbell? Localism.
17:10 Rory Stewart? Well, it's not just localism, but it's also this big thing, which is if the Prime Minister wants to make an announcement that is kept secret, he can't talk to too many people by definition. And how do you get the balance right between properly consulting inside government, doing all the maths on all those projects, and also keeping it as something that you can reveal as something new at a party conference? How do you, how do you get that right? What sort of advice would you give someone on that kind of thing?
17:35 Alastair Campbell? I think on things like that, if you, we had things that we announced at party conference, like, for example, the initial decision that we were going to review the Labour Party constitution. We were absolutely determined that that should be announced by Tony Blair in the conference hall, and there shouldn't be a whiff of it beforehand. In the end, Sunak ended up with the worst of all worlds because the thing was leaking left, right and centre. We had three, four days of him saying that no decision had been made. Then we had this video emerge of him announcing it, you know, that he recorded a video of the announcement sort of four days before. I think you have to trust your colleagues. And of course, that's very, very different when you've got a factionalised party. I also wasn't comfortable with Grant Shapps using the conference platform to do
18:17 Alastair Campbell? his big announcement about sending troops to Kosovo. I think that's something he should have maybe kept away from the party platform. These are difficult judgements because Parliament's not sitting, but I, I think that that barrier between party and government is sort of, you know, really, really has fundamentally broken down.
18:33 Rory Stewart? Just, just go back to the really big announcement I remember, which was Gordon Brown announcing the independence of the Bank of England, which I think was a really good thing and was one of the things that I remember feeling, my goodness, this government knows what it's doing. That's really impressive. That's very bold.
18:46 Alastair Campbell? That was the right thing to think, Rory.
18:48 Rory Stewart? That was the right thing to think, but presumably that needed to be kept secret. So he couldn't actually consult with every economist in the world before he made his decision, right?
18:57 Alastair Campbell? I mean, there'd been a debate going on for years, but I think what is true is that he kept it very, very tight. And my memory may be failing me here. I think there was a cabinet meeting that morning at which it was kind of, you know, basically presented as a fait accompli. But what Gordon was very good at was making sure that the arguments he had was strong enough for people to say, yeah, we'll go along with that. And I think that was the other problem with HS2 is that they were all sent their talking points and they dutifully went out to deliver them. And then by the end of the day, they were all rather regretting the fact that they'd, I mean, the best one was the Manchester one, where they were announcing to build something which has been running for several years. So I don't, I don't think they really did their, their homework.
19:40 Rory Stewart? Yeah. But it wasn't helped by the fact that he then had David Cameron and Boris Johnson then tweeting against him.
19:44 Alastair Campbell? Yeah.
19:44 Rory Stewart? On the other hand, I watched that speech. I watched that, that Rishi Sunak speech. And there were bits of it that I thought were clear and impressive. And I thought he was kind of coming into his own. He was beginning to find his voice.
19:54 Alastair Campbell? I mean, the quality of speeches had been very, very poor through the week. And I, and I think as, as a performance, I think his was probably the best. But I think the content was very, very poor because I think there was no sense of a coherent theme running through the whole thing. And long-term decisions for a brighter future, I'm afraid it just wasn't.
20:13 Rory Stewart? Right, I will return to that in a bit. Anyway, Hilary Douglas, please explain why Labour don't go for a wealth tax. Seems popular, doesn't affect 90% of people, would set a divide between them and Tories.
20:25 Alastair Campbell? Because they want to be able to present themselves as a party that is not ideologically committed to high taxation, particularly at a time when people are paying such high taxes.
20:36 Rory Stewart? And there's another problem, isn't there, which is that, of course, it's not true that it doesn't affect 90% of people. The big division in our country, really, the big inequality of wealth is between the 60% who own houses and the 40% who don't.
20:47 Alastair Campbell? Yeah.
20:48 Rory Stewart? And a wealth tax will have a big impact on the 60% who own houses.
20:51 Alastair Campbell? And that's why Ed Miliband, when he was the leader of the party, was looking much more closely at the so-called mansion tax. Look, I think that Labour are absolutely putting all their chips on growth. That's clear from this week, that they're basically saying there's going to be a different approach to the economy, a different industrial strategy, and it will lead to growth. And if it doesn't, then they're going to have to look at things like this, I think.
21:12 Rory Stewart? I'd love to see us looking again at a wealth tax on houses after people die. I thought that was a really smart way of the desperately needed funding that we need for adult social care, to say that you're not going to take someone's house away from them while they're alive, but when they die, the government will effectively tax them to pay for adult social care. And I think that's a good, fair way of doing it.
21:32 Alastair Campbell? Well, that brings me on neatly to a plug for our second episode of the interview with Theresa May. Tim Mercer, I'm not a Tory voter, but everything Mrs May said about why she was in politics, being an MP, balancing cabinet and constituency responsibilities, respecting the civil service, doing something before being in politics, gave me a sense that there are those who really get what I as a voter want to see in a politician. Keir Starmer could learn a lot from her approach and her experience. In contrast to the SPAD approach, that's when a special advisor becomes an MP, to what extent is it feasible and appropriate that a Labour leader could be advised and mentored by an experienced member of another party? Hmm, interesting question. The Theresa May interview did very, very well, Rory,
22:13 Alastair Campbell? both in terms of numbers, but also the response. She was very dismissive in my pointing out that if she really believed that spads, the route to an MP shouldn't be through the spad, then Nick Timothy, who is waltzing into Matt Hancock's seat, seems to me to go against that. But fair point. I think she's right about a lot of things that she said. And I was very pleased she stood up for the civil service as much as she did. I hope Keir Starmer does that. I think his appointing Sue Gray is actually signalling that he wants to take the civil service seriously. Doing something before in politics, well, he's done that as DPP and as a lawyer. And I think this point about taking advice from others is a good one. I mean, one of the first things Tony Blair did when he became Prime Minister, much to the disgruntlement of some, was actually that he called Margaret Thatcher in for a
22:57 Alastair Campbell? chat about how to deal with other leaders. But it seems to me that's a very sensible thing to do. I said at the start of the pandemic, you know, you have John Major, you have Tony Blair, you have Gordon Brown, Theresa May, David Cameron, all five of those actually became quite significant voices during the COVID pandemic. But actually, it might have been an idea for Johnson to have called them in and actually sort of almost given them a role or given them some part of that response, the natural response. So I think, I hope Keir does sort of not think if he does become Prime Minister that he can get good advice from people who've done the job before, regardless of party.
23:33 Rory Stewart? Very good. Well, look, here's a question. Duncan C. Since both of you are polyglots, you're a better polyglot than me. Do you have any advice for people wanting to learn a language? And is there anything you would change about how languages are taught at school, Gona Alistair?
23:48 Alastair Campbell? Well, something I'd change is reverse the change that we made. I would get languages back on the curriculum, but possibly with, you know, broader approach. I think if I were going in to learn languages today, if I was at school, I'd probably want to learn Chinese, I'd probably want to learn Arabic. If I was picking a European language, I might pick Spanish rather than French and German.
24:08 Rory Stewart? Why Spanish rather than French and German?
24:10 Alastair Campbell? I think more people speak Spanish.
24:11 Rory Stewart? Worldwide, yeah, as a way of connecting to Latin America.
24:14 Alastair Campbell? Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. You and I often say to each other, we don't talk much about Latin America when we sometimes feel that we should. But I think one of the reasons for that is neither of us speak Spanish.
24:25 Rory Stewart? Yep.
24:25 Alastair Campbell? So we don't read as much. I probably speak more about France and Germany because I read French and German quite a lot. You, by the way, speak a lot of languages to a certain degree. You, no, hold on a minute. We had praise for your
24:39 Rory Stewart? My Serbo-Croat.
24:40 Alastair Campbell? Your Serbo-Croat last week. Somebody said, somebody wrote in to say that your pronunciation was almost flawless, almost flawless. No, but I think the key to learning a language is not to be worried about making mistakes. And it's also, I think you have to love the language. I think you have to love that feeling of being able to express yourself in a way that you couldn't express yourself before. It's a wonderful feeling when you get into it.
25:02 Rory Stewart? I think people learn languages in different ways. I mean, you obviously did very well at school and university in a more conventional language thing. In my, my case was, actually, I didn't like traditional sitting in a classroom, being made to memorize grammar and vocabulary rules. I really came alive with languages when I moved to Indonesia and the Foreign Office put me in a language school in a rural area and made me live with a family. And I had three different teachers every day, two hours with one teacher, two hours with the second teacher, two hours with the third teacher after lunch, then two hours of homework. And living with a family that didn't speak English, at the end of three months, I had made so much progress just by talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, in a way that I
25:44 Rory Stewart? didn't feel that I'd made when I was sort of sitting through French classes at school, being made to learn 40 words every night.
25:50 Alastair Campbell? Does the Foreign Office still put ambassadors through that same level of training? Or has that been part of the cuts as well?
25:57 Rory Stewart? The promise is always getting cut because they're always in a hurry to deploy people. It's always the thing that gets squeezed. But yes, theoretically, as an ambassador, you should still be able to get decent language training before you go out to a country. So Simon Walters, who's just gone out to be the ambassador in Israel, speaks really good Hebrew as well as really good Arabic, thanks to the Foreign Office.
26:16 Alastair Campbell? Oh, wow. That's not Simon Walters, the Mail on Sunday journalist who used to make my life very difficult from time to time.
26:22 Rory Stewart? Different man entirely.
26:23 Alastair Campbell? I cannot imagine him as a diplomat. Although he does get a shout out in Theresa May's book, I noticed.
26:28 Rory Stewart? Oh.
26:28 Alastair Campbell? I think she even calls him the respected.
26:30 Rory Stewart? Oh goodness. Well, there we are.
26:31 Alastair Campbell? Yeah. Shows I read the whole book. Didn't just skim read it, Theresa, read the whole damn thing. Rory, it's been a pleasure as always.
26:37 Rory Stewart? Thank you very much indeed, and look forward to speaking soon. Bye bye.
26:41 Alastair Campbell? Bye.
26:45 Speaker 07 At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones. Member SIPC. Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd.
27:04 Speaker 08 Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.
27:16 Speaker 09 What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.
27:21 Speaker 08 With great power comes great deniability.
27:24 Speaker 09 I'm not the first daddy.
27:25 Speaker 08 Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.
27:31 Speaker 10 We just moved into our new house, and I didn't realize just how close we were to the neighbors. That's when my friend told me about Blinds.com.
27:39 Speaker 11 Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Customers who shop at Blinds.com experience excellent customer service, from consultation to installation. Side effects include increased privacy and better sleep. Talk to your partner today and see if Blinds.com is right for you. Visit Blinds.com to order your free samples.
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