377: Don't Do Dumb SH**T.

One of the simplest and most impactful little piece of advice for success in life is, "Don't Do Dumb sh*t". Avoid things that may make you do dumb things. Like alcohol, drugs, out of control ego, peer pressure, and many others. With Jocko Willink and Echo Charles Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 377 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So, a while ago, we might even say, back in the day. Really? In the days, I gave some advice, a little advice to the boys in a certain situation. And I think this piece of advice that I gave, it's one of those pieces of advice, very simple piece of advice, very simple piece of advice.

• 0:33Jocko Willink?

  And yet, if you follow this very simple piece of advice, your whole life will be in a much better place. Gold nugget. Now, I know that's a little arrogant, right? Does it mean I'm gonna say, tell you that I spewed some gold nugget piece of advice, right? But I think you might agree with me. When you hear this piece of advice that I gave some people, and I've given it to other people over the years, here's the, here's the very powerful piece of advice that will help you much in life. The piece of advice is, don't do dumb shit.

• 1:09Jocko Willink?

  And I know it's not earthbreaking, right? I know it's not some ancient, um, western or eastern philosophical statement. But let me ask you this.

• 1:23Jocko Willink?

  How many people do you know that have either negatively, significantly negatively impacted their lives or wrecked their lives, either slowly over time or very quickly in some cases? How many people do you know that have really made a mess of their lives by doing dumb shit?

• 1:50Jocko Willink?

  I know a lot of them. And as I was, like I said, I was actually giving this advice to someone the other day. And I started thinking to myself, this is so obvious.

• 2:00Jocko Willink?

  Why would anyone do dumb shit? Why would you, why would you do it? Literally, what are the reasons? And then I started thinking about actual reasons that cause people to do dumb shit, myself included. And I'm sure we'll find some examples for Echo Charles. But I thought, let's sit down, let me think about some of these things. And we can discuss some of the primary reasons for us to do dumb shit. And that way, maybe we can prevent some people.

• 2:38Jocko Willink?

  And that means me, and that means you from doing some dumb shit. Okay. First on my list.

• 2:47Jocko Willink?

  This one's real obvious. This one, this one is the winner by far. Alcohol.

• 2:56Jocko Willink?

  Look.

• 2:57Echo Charles?

  Yes.

• 2:59Jocko Willink?

  You take, if you take the SEAL teams. Or just take the military in general. If you removed alcohol from the equation, there would be a lot less dumb shit going on. Look, we're still doing dumb shit. But when I used to have guys get in trouble. Ninety-five percent of the time, there was alcohol involved. Think about that. Ninety-five percent of the time. When a SEAL did some dumb shit. Maybe ninety percent, ninety percent of the time, there was alcohol involved. They were doing some dumb shit. Think about high school. Right? What goes on in high school? When people get in trouble in high school? Probably eighty percent. Maybe seventy. Well, you got that little, you got that little spike of

• 3:45Jocko Willink?

  rebelliousness that's going on in high school. That doesn't require alcohol.

• 3:49Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't require the stupidity of alcohol. College, when you see, when you see like, when something hits the news for college.

• 3:57Echo Charles?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:59Jocko Willink?

  There, there's alcohol involved. That might be ninety-seven percent, right? The frat guy dies from too much alcohol. The date rape thing happens because the guy's drunk, the girl's drunk, like it's just a disaster.

• 4:14Jocko Willink?

  The vandalism happens, the kid falls out the window drunk. Like you take all those college things. Ninety seven percent alcohol is in the game. Am I right?

• 4:25Echo Charles?

  Yeah, I would. That sounds right to me too.

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  You're more of the college experience than me.

• 4:29Echo Charles?

  Yep, yep, yep.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  The military, like I said, and life in general. Life in general. This alcohol thing is just gonna lead to bad scenarios. It's gonna lead to you doing dumb shit. Some of it is, hey, you get pulled over by the cops. You, you, you might be in that mindset like, well, I'm fine, but you blow a.

• 4:53Jocko Willink?

  You know, point zero eight one or whatever. So now you're technically you're, you're drunk. Well, yeah. Guess what? You're out 10 grand. You're maybe out your driver's license. You get in an accident with that. Now you're getting sued. Like it's just a total life turnaround in three seconds. Never mind if you're actually drunk and you do something dumb. You hit somebody, whatever. That's terrible. You get in fights. I mean, you go to, does, does, are there any fights? In the supermarket? Right? There are occasionally.

• 5:27Echo Charles?

  Yeah, not really though.

• 5:27Jocko Willink?

  Right, but not a lot.

• 5:28Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Jocko Willink?

  Low percentage. Are there any fights? On the, the, the, uh. The boardwalk, like during the day on a Saturday? There can be, but there's not a lot. But what about Saturday night? What changed? It's darker. Yeah. What really changed? They put that, they put that booze. They put that whiskey in the scene.

• 5:49Echo Charles?

  Yep.

• 5:49Jocko Willink?

  Everybody, some people go crazy, by the way. Some people, alcohol makes them go crazy.

• 5:54Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Jocko Willink?

  This is a legitimate thing.

• 5:56Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  Like I have friends. They're drinking, they're not gonna, they're actually not gonna do anything stupid. They're gonna go, they're gonna have a drink. It's no big deal.

• 6:05Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 6:05Jocko Willink?

  I have some friends. When they drink alcohol. They're, they're just gonna lose their mind.

• 6:10Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 6:10Jocko Willink?

  They're gonna lose their mind. You have to watch, you have to put a, a, a party of. Of warriors to like, keep them under control.

• 6:20Echo Charles?

  Handler.

• 6:20Jocko Willink?

  Candles. Yeah, straight up.

• 6:22Echo Charles?

  Yep.

• 6:23Jocko Willink?

  So. There you go.

• 6:26Echo Charles?

  I uh, my boss in one of the nightclubs I worked at in Hawaii didn't drink. Or he told me he didn't drink. I said, oh, why not? You know, cause I kinda was, it didn't compute. We work in the nightclub or whatever. He's one of the few people. And he said, I'm a belligerent drunk.

• 6:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he knew it. He was self-aware.

• 6:43Echo Charles?

  Yep, he totally was, but, but what was more like, what made an impact on me was the idea of being a belligerent drunk. Cause he just said, I'm a belligerent drunk. So that to me, how it came off to me was like, he knows, and we all know about what a belligerent drunk is, like someone who gets drunk and just wants to start stuff on whatever scale. You know, like I wanna start, I'm gonna start a fight with my friend.

• 7:05Jocko Willink?

  I told you about one buddy, like he was passed out on a high boy table. You know what that is?

• 7:11Echo Charles?

  It's like a standing.

• 7:12Jocko Willink?

  Like a standing table, but you can have a tall stool.

• 7:14Echo Charles?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:14Jocko Willink?

  Or whatever. So he's kind of just passed out on that. You know, it's, it's, it's, oh, by the way, it's only like 10 o'clock at night. And he's passed out drunk. We've been drinking since whenever. This is back in the day. We're just stupid. And, and so, you know, I, I meet some girls. They're like, hey, let's go to this other bar. And I'm like, yeah, you know, this is back in the day. And uh, so I'm like, okay, we're gonna go to this other bar. So I wake him up. And I say, hey, bro, hey, we're going to this other bar. He like stands up, looks at me, look, he kinda looks normal. He takes two steps and he takes a swing at some random dude that's walking away.

• 7:49Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  Or walking by him with his girlfriend. He takes a swing at this guy.

• 7:52Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 7:53Jocko Willink?

  I grab him and I get a hold of him and he's yelling. He's going, what did he do? Like, that's what my, that's what my friend is saying. He's going, what did he do? What did he do? I'm like, he didn't do anything, man. He didn't do anything. It's okay. He's like, what did he do? And I get him outside and meanwhile, the guy gets outside. And as we get outside, the guy sees that I'm holding my buddy back. And the guy looks at me, goes, yeah, you better hold on to him. And I look at the guy and I go, hey, man, if you don't get out of here, I'm gonna let him go. And then the dude just, well, he took off, bro. He didn't want none of that.

• 8:28Echo Charles?

  No.

• 8:29Jocko Willink?

  But that's, that's. That's animalistic behavior coming out.

• 8:33Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 8:33Jocko Willink?

  This is no judgment.

• 8:35Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Jocko Willink?

  No judgment, like his judgment is just, and by the way, this guy who's a friend of mine, he didn't have a real, he was kind of a, uh, he's just gonna take action type of bro.

• 8:46Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 8:46Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 8:47Echo Charles?

  Apparently.

• 8:47Jocko Willink?

  Sober or not.

• 8:48Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 8:48Jocko Willink?

  Like when he's sober, he might have like maybe two or three seconds of consideration before action.

• 8:55Echo Charles?

  Right.

• 8:56Jocko Willink?

  And those are not long seconds, you know, he's considering maybe can I get killed right now or can I get arrested? Is there a cop in the immediate 20 feet around me? No, I can get away with this, I'm gonna do it. But when alcohol was involved, there's no thought process whatsoever. Just, just zero, I'm just gonna do whatever pops into my head. That's alcohol. So that's why I think, you know, that we, I think everybody's got a kind of joke like this of, you know, if it wasn't for alcohol, the Irish would rule the world, the seals would rule the world, you know, like you say that about all these different cultures that the English would rule the world, like alcohol will screw you up and make you do dumb shit.

• 9:36Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah. You brought, you brought up the judgment thing. You watch the movie Kingpin? Remember that one?

• 9:42Jocko Willink?

  The bowling movie?

• 9:43Echo Charles?

  Bowling movie.

• 9:43Jocko Willink?

  How are you?

• 9:44Echo Charles?

  So he said, he said something at some point where the guy, you know, he's trying to develop this new bowling talent, right, Amish dude? And then he said, uh, they did something and it failed, it was massive failure. And he's like, you said you could develop me into the next talent. And he was like, I've been hammered for the last, you know, 15 years or whatever. So my judgment isn't all that good. And it got, it got me thinking where even if I'm at home by myself, in front of the computer, watching TV, whatever, like by myself, my judgment is not good drinking alcohol. So like, and okay, so I'm gonna admit this to you. So I'll do the dumb shit I do, which thankfully doesn't have huge repercussions, but I'll get like an idea of to do some cool shit.

• 10:28Echo Charles?

  There's like a handful of people that'll literally like vouch for this, this fact. I'll get an idea and I'll be like, oh, that would be so cool if I'd like started doing this, right? And it's like, who can I do that? Like, who would, who would help me with this? Like, who would bring some really cool shit to the table for this idea that I'm about to develop? That I just developed right now?

• 10:47Echo Charles?

  So I'll text like Keen Cornelius.

• 10:51Echo Charles?

  Like, whatever, that idea's dumb. It's a dumb idea. But the fact is, my point is like judgment is just bad. Yeah, even it can literally seem like, bro, this is gonna change like the whole trajectory of like what we're doing. You know, like, and it's this idea. And then you wake up the next day, you see the texts, because it's like three in the morning. So the normal person is not gonna text back at that time. So in the morning, I get the reply text, and oh, I'm waiting, I'm waiting to hear this idea, you know? And I'm like, ah, yeah, never mind about that idea. But it happens a lot. Even if the kind like, and I'm the kind where I'll know, like if I was drinking or whatever, I'll know, like, hey, like, sometimes I do come up with bad ideas. So I understand. So, but I, so I'm gonna be aware of that, you know? Even though I know, still, still, judgment, terrible.

• 11:32Jocko Willink?

  We have a thing in the SEAL teams where guys would be sitting drinking. And they'd say like, oh, we were solving the world's problems. Right? Is that a common thing? Okay, yeah, it's very similar to what you're talking about. We were thinking, oh, you know, if we just did this, we did, and you're coming up with the dumbest solutions. And thank God you don't act on them, or whatever they might be, hopefully. But case in point, alcohol, big contributor to doing dumb shit.

• 12:01Echo Charles?

  The, you said something about the, or when you mentioned the drunk, drinking and driving, right? Where that one, so, okay, there's the kind where you drink a, like, some, you drink some, and you're like, maybe I'm over, maybe I'm not. But like, I for real feel like I can, I can drive. There's no prob, like, the risk, like, it doesn't even seem like a risk. A, that's the alcohol doing, telling you that, that's A. B, it is a risk, straight up risk. And it's not a hard decision, technically.

• 12:26Jocko Willink?

  And it's not a small risk either.

• 12:28Echo Charles?

  Yeah, huge. And it's, but it's not like a hard decision. It's not like, oh, my gosh, let me just weigh out these pros and cons and like, man, okay, you know, okay. All cons, all of them. It's so easy, like, so easy to tell, meanwhile, we do it.

• 12:40Jocko Willink?

  Especially now with Uber.

• 12:42Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Jocko Willink?

  I mean, for real, like Uber is just a problem solver.

• 12:45Echo Charles?

  Yeah, fully.

• 12:46Jocko Willink?

  So, let's.

• 12:50Jocko Willink?

  Make sure, I guess, you know, when people do the um like the psychological or the psycho drugs like

• 12:58Echo Charles?

  Yeah psychedelic.

• 12:59Jocko Willink?

  Psychedelic drugs or whatever, they say, oh, you need to go to like a special place, special place to do where you won't.

• 13:05Echo Charles?

  Where you're my coach.

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  You don't do them at like Costco.

• 13:07Echo Charles?

  Right.

• 13:08Jocko Willink?

  You're supposed to go to a place where you're not gonna hurt anybody, you're not gonna hurt yourself. It's, you kinda need to set yourself up with alcohol.

• 13:15Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Jocko Willink?

  Like that.

• 13:17Echo Charles?

  I think that that's actually a good idea.

• 13:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, put yourself in this like, if you really feel the need.

• 13:22Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Jocko Willink?

  Go to a situation where you're not gonna be around these, these problems that are gonna come.

• 13:29Echo Charles?

  Right.

• 13:29Jocko Willink?

  Cause they're gonna come.

• 13:30Echo Charles?

  That sounds funny, but really when you kinda think of it and ignore some of the social stuff. That's probably a good idea, A. And B, when you really think, look at it kinda from that perspective. A bar and nightclub is the literal exact opposite. So you said, let's have you in a responsible, safe area with a coach that can guide you through it, you know, maybe multiple coaches. You know, cause this is a powerful drug and it's gonna make you have feelings that you think are real, but they're not and all this stuff. And that's true. But actually, you know what, instead of that, let's do this. Let's put you in a place where you can get as much as you want, literally as much as, as long as you don't pass out. Or start throwing up or whatever. You can, you can have as much as you want, as long as you can afford it, by the way. Cause we're gonna charge you a little bit extra on that one.

• 14:13Echo Charles?

  As much as you want, and we're gonna put you in the vicinity of two things that are probably the most emotionally compelling things that a human being can do with. If you're a boy, it's girls who are dressed up the best they can, by the way, and to look as, let's say, attractive as possible. And a bunch of other guys who are out to do the same thing, well, you know, to, to compete with socially. That you don't know and have no like, you know, ties to or whatever. Oh yeah, that's the perfect recipe for safety.

• 14:44Jocko Willink?

  I was, I was talking to a friend of mine, this is a couple of years ago, and he had, I hadn't seen him in a long time. And I was like, oh, what have you been up to? And and he kind of told me what he'd been up to. And he said, yeah, you know, I whatever I got, you know, I got in trouble here. I got arrested there. I and he said, you know, I was addicted to. I started using crack or started using coke, then I started using crack, then I started using Matt, like the whole nine yards. And and as I'm talking to him, he goes, you know what the craziest thing is? He said, the craziest thing is. The worst drug for me, when he, that's what he got arrested for. He goes, what I, the only thing I've been arrested for, he'd been to rehab and stuff for these other drugs. He said, the only thing I've actually been arrested for. Is when I drink alcohol.

• 15:28Jocko Willink?

  He goes, when I drink alcohol, I'm totally insane. And I can vouch for this. I seen him drink alcohol and he is totally insane. And he said, is this craziest thing that the drug that makes me totally insane? Is the only one that I can walk down to the corner store and buy as much of it as I possibly want? He said, it's it's terrible. And that's a very good point. And the weird thing about it is, is that alcohol affects different people differently. I mean, for real, it does. And so some people. That's why when I talk to like younger people. You don't know how it's going to affect you. And if you don't know, well, again, what's the risk that you're taking?

• 16:08Jocko Willink?

  The risk that you're taking is maybe this is just, you're one of those people that just goes freaking ape shit when you drink, when you drink this stuff. And you get addicted to it the whole nine yards. Even and speaking of just setting yourself up at a minimum. Like, oh, you're gonna go, oh, you know, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna drive down to the bar and I might have a few drinks. Just don't drive there. Just get an Uber there. You know, like, put yourself, if you're smart, at least set yourself up for some kind of. Not being an idiot.

• 16:36Echo Charles?

  Yeah, that's some legit mitigation right there, for sure. The the scary one, just one more ad, additional scary part of alcohol. And this is this, this is, it lands on people on different areas of the spectrum here, but. What it does, so you know, you can think and we all think sometime, most of the time, anyway, oh, I can drink and like, I'll just, I'll just really monitor myself and focus on monitoring myself. I won't do nothing dumb, right? I promise to your wife or whoever. But what alcohol does is it literally makes bad. Ideas seem good, like good idea. They they flip over to good ideas.

• 17:12Jocko Willink?

  A lot of reflection. You know, we we got asked on the underground, somebody asked about alcohol and like, well, you know, I I feel like I should cut it down and I've been addicted like he had a big thing. He said, you know, how how can I do a better job of cutting it down? And, you know, I basically said at the end, I kind of went around. I said, listen, man, I just can't get behind it at all. I just can't. I just can't. Tell you that there's any positive way that you should be doing this. Just you shouldn't be doing it. And I had several people reach out to me and say, thanks for saying that. Because that's the right answer. The right answer is. You shouldn't be doing this and you just, especially if you have any kind of, if you have a problem with it, you shouldn't do it at all. Period. End of story. And look, if you're one of those people that's lucky enough that you can have a few and it's okay, you like a glass of wine with dinner and all that stuff, I get it.

• 17:57Jocko Willink?

  And I'm not trying to say anything bad about you and I'm not trying to shake, take away your bottle of wine or your beer after a hard day work. If if you can do that, cool. Good for you. But if you're one of those people that that glass of wine turns into a bottle of wine or that that two beers turns into eight, 12, you know, 24 beers. That's not good and you shouldn't be doing it. And if you're one of those people that your judgment goes completely off the rails, you shouldn't be doing it. There's just other things you should do. So. Had to put that one. As the number one.

• 18:34Jocko Willink?

  I would say for people between the ages of, you know, 16 and 35. Yeah. Probably the number one cause of doing dumb shit, alcohol. Be careful out there, people. Drugs, I had to list drugs too, because obviously drugs are similar. I, you know, everything that we just said about alcohol, you can kind of say about drugs too.

• 18:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so. Alcohol or sorry, drugs. I I think I've told you this before. I had a friend that. He. He told he was. He did meth. And.

• 19:10Jocko Willink?

  He said, he'd just gotten out of jail. He did like seven years in jail for stealing and doing all kinds of stuff. And he was doing all this bad stuff because he was addicted to meth. And he said that the first time he ever tried meth, the very first time he ever tried meth, he said it was the only thing that he ever wanted to do for the rest of his life. He was like 100% totally addicted. And he started in his immediate family stealing everything that they had. Then his grandma, then his granddad, then his aunt and uncle, he stole everything from his family, then everything from his friends. And then he went to a different city and did the same thing again and same thing again and same thing again. Until he finally ended up in a place where his luck ran out. He got caught and then ended up doing seven years in prison. From one try of meth.

• 19:51Jocko Willink?

  So drugs, again, it's like the same thing. I just can't, I just can't. And you know, you know how some people say they have an addictive personality? And it's almost like a little bit of a humble brag. You know, I got an addictive personality.

• 20:06Echo Charles?

  I sense that.

• 20:06Jocko Willink?

  The reason I said, I think I used to say that.

• 20:08Echo Charles?

  For real?

• 20:09Jocko Willink?

  I used to be, oh yeah, I kind of have an addictive personality. And I actually think I do not actually have an addictive personality. You know, I, I like to do some things, like I really like doing jujitsu.

• 20:21Jocko Willink?

  You know, could I say, oh yeah, I'm kind of addicted to jujitsu? But it's not, it's not like running my life.

• 20:28Echo Charles?

  Right. What, well, what does that mean? What do you, how do you interpret that when someone's like, I have an addictive?

• 20:33Jocko Willink?

  Meaning.

• 20:33Echo Charles?

  What do you think that means?

• 20:34Jocko Willink?

  Meaning, meaning, oh, you try alcohol, it makes you feel good. You're now going to get as much as you can and you're not going to stop until something goes bad.

• 20:41Echo Charles?

  Let's say not even drug or alcohol, like just if you have an addictive personality, you know?

• 20:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I don't really, I don't know if there's even a technical term for it. But I feel like I used to say it, you know, when I was younger, like I kind of had, almost like a humble brag.

• 20:54Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 20:55Jocko Willink?

  And probably when I was like 30, I was like, actually, I don't think I have an addictive personality at all. Like we would go on ships where you're not allowed to drink and I just wouldn't care at all. You know, wouldn't care at all. It's like, whatever.

• 21:06Echo Charles?

  Addictive personality to me strikes me as something where like, if you like, kind of get into something, you know, some big thing, small thing, whatever, whatever you get into, you just go hard into, in, into that subject or activity. That's what it feels like it means, you know? And technically, I mean, in a way. Kind of know some people like that where it's like, oh, this he's on this now and he just spends like years just being into this every day, kind of a thing. It's I can see it, but I think you're right. And I didn't really think about that where it's like, it's kind of a humble brag. Yeah, as if to say, I just go hard. If I get into something, I just go hard. That's how I am.

• 21:38Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's almost like saying, yeah, I'm kind of a perfectionist that that whole thing, you know? It's sort of like, I've got an addictive personality. You just gotta, hey, man, I'm just gonna go. So I don't think I have that, but I definitely know people that. I definitely, I know some people that went hard in these directions, various directions. And you can also, you know, you hear about people that were drug addicts. And when they get done with drug addicts, they get off of them and then they become like addicted to fitness. Yeah, you know what I mean? They just, oh, you school, I was a, I was a alcoholic. And I started working out and they just get addicted to that. I started running marathons. I started what, right? So that though, that's what I think the, when I think of addictive personality, it's someone that's just disregarding other parts of life.

• 22:20Echo Charles?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:20Jocko Willink?

  And they're just doing this thing.

• 22:21Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 22:22Jocko Willink?

  Whatever that thing is. Uh, so there's alcohol, drugs. Okay. Now, the next one here that I was thinking about is, and a lot of these things are related. But these kind of instinctual or animalistic drives that we have as human beings. So these can make you do dumb things, right? So the, you know, you got food, right? You got the reproductive drive, sex. You've got the aggression, aggression, like you have a natural, different levels, but a natural level of aggression. When, uh, have you ever done a sport where something made you mad? Like this, you got frustrated with the sport and you like hit.

• 23:08Jocko Willink?

  Like you get frustrated on the mats and you like hit the mats. Or you've seen someone like punch the punch the wall mat after they get tapped, right?

• 23:14Echo Charles?

  Yeah, yeah, fully. That's a thing.

• 23:16Jocko Willink?

  Or they get. Uh, they get submitted or they get worked over on the mat and they start to get hostile.

• 23:23Echo Charles?

  Yeah. Oh, wait, are you talking about just hostile in general or hostile towards the person? Or whatever. Okay, general hostility.

• 23:29Jocko Willink?

  Like there's an aggression level that can come out.

• 23:32Echo Charles?

  Yeah, yeah, gotcha.

• 23:33Jocko Willink?

  And so, so those are animalistic things. Animalistic drives that we have that can make you do dumb things. And here's a, to, to, to not go too crazy on an example, but you have an animalistic drive to eat food. So that can make you make bad decisions because if you get a freaking big ass, uh, box of donuts in front of you, you have an instinct to eat those donuts. Hundred percent. And that's, you know, same thing with, you know, with, uh, the sex drive that you have. You know, you could be in a situation where, oh, the animalistic part of you could just make you break down and you're gonna go. The aggression thing, you get into a scenario where you get backed into a corner, the animalistic thing is like, oh, I better protect myself. I bet you need to get aggressive right now. Fear also can make you do things, which is an animalistic

• 24:20Jocko Willink?

  emotion, I guess, is fear.

• 24:25Jocko Willink?

  And there's some animalistic things that are positive too, um, you know, being protective. You know, like when, when a guy runs into a house or, or a mom runs into a burning house to save their kid. Yeah, they're like being animalistically protective. You know, you hear about the bear protecting its cubs. Well, humans will do that too. It's a positive thing. But you have to pay attention to make sure that your animal instincts aren't making you do dumb shit.

• 24:52Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 24:53Jocko Willink?

  Cause they can.

• 24:54Echo Charles?

  Yes, they can.

• 24:55Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 24:57Echo Charles?

  That you talked about the food thing. So, and I say this because this is probably very like prevalent and common. Where you know how you talk about fasting and stuff like that. So some people, they might not be ready for that hunger. And we've talked about that too, where if you're not ready for that hunger, or actually forget fasting. What if you just didn't eat today because you didn't have time or whatever, right? You just, not you, just a normal person and then you, then you get home. Okay, let's just say it, me, alright? So I get home and I'm hungry from, because I missed lunch because I was doing whatever. And I get home and. You know, I'm like many people where I pay attention to what I eat. I'm not just like, oh, I'm hungry. Oh, there's a McDonald's. That sounds good. But you know, like, so I pay attention and try to, you know, I'd be, I'm thoughtful.

• 25:41Jocko Willink?

  Deliberate.

• 25:42Echo Charles?

  Yeah, deliberate. Yes, exactly. So if I'm hungry though, super hungry,

• 25:49Echo Charles?

  let's say eight hours, no food, like that's hunger, you know?

• 25:55Echo Charles?

  But I'll go home and then if I see some like candy walnuts cruising over there or some chips like over there, whatever, like I'll get into them, you know? When I didn't have any plan to do that, that wasn't part of any program. It wasn't part of even my plan, you know? But I will be way more thoughtless of what I eat when you're hungry, you know? Where it's like, oh, no, no, dinner's coming up right now. Oh, it's still pulling me toward, you know?

• 26:18Echo Charles?

  So that can kind of like make you go into that spire, that animalistic like spiral, you know?

• 26:23Jocko Willink?

  So you, that's, that's why this is on the list, man.

• 26:25Echo Charles?

  Bro, you gotta, you gotta watch out. You gotta watch out. And really, this is in this, it kind of goes for this whole list. Alcohol, like everything, even stuff that'll seem real obvious to some people. Part of the problem, or if not, a significant part of the problem is that you're not paying attention. It's almost like you're not like, you lost focus for one second. You just let the animalistic whatever kind of take over. You know, the like the momentum of the what, you know, your whole thing, whatever you're doing. Even the alcohol thing, you know, you saying, I know you're going to talk about this word, peer pressure, right? Where peer pressure doesn't come in, in ways like how you see on the old school eighties, nineties commercials. Where it's like, come on, don't be a chicken. It doesn't always come like that, you know? It comes in like a lot of subtle ways that just sort of, you're going forward in life and the peer pressure nudges you right to the side.

• 27:11Echo Charles?

  Like, why would anyone, and I, and this is no, I'm not like judging or nothing, anyone who does this, but why would anyone ever smoke a cigarette? Like, there's no reason ever, especially now, ever to smoke cigarettes. But why do people smoke cigarettes? There should be not one single human being technically or in America, technically, who should start smoking.

• 27:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, should be zero.

• 27:31Echo Charles?

  Like, that decision-making process is polluted by this peer pressure by, by something. It's polluted by something distracting their decision-making process. Which so, and that's why I don't judge, because let's face it.

• 27:43Jocko Willink?

  You know, I, I've said this about alcohol too. Back in the day, you know, if you wanted to prove that you were kind of willing to sacrifice for the team. And that you were tough. One of the ways you could do that is like, oh, watch how much I can drink. Watch how much I can abuse my own body and then still go on, right? You see somebody in this day and age, if you were, if you were going to make a decision to make, to smoke cigarettes, it's literally a way of saying, hey, look, I don't care about anything. I don't care about my own health. That's how much I don't care. It's, it's a statement. I think if you were gonna be, that, that would be the only reason why I think someone would go, oh yeah, look at me. I don't even care. This is horrible for me. I can get a horrible disease and I'm just over here smoking a cigarette.

• 28:28Jocko Willink?

  Posty, right? Post Malone, just out there singing and, and freaking smoking a cigarette. It's a bummer. He must be addicted to the cigarettes though, huh?

• 28:38Echo Charles?

  Yeah. And, and to me, this is all real. This is, this is, this is real life. This, this isn't like, oh, you guys are so dumb. It's like, no, no, no. It's, it's actually pretty obvious. Like I see exactly why that's going on. Cause I've been peer pressured into doing so much dumb stuff. Where as an adult, they'll be like, hey, did you do this? And then to say yes is actually embarrassing, even though it's something that like plenty of young people do or whatever. There's a lot of stuff they go like that and go like that, you know, that we've all done or whatever. So hey, that's just one of them. So whatever, do what you dig. But when you really stop and think, which I was gonna say this earlier, where a lot of this, it's crazy how it goes back to all these simple, simple terms, you know, back when you're like five years old, when your teacher telling you, hey, don't do dumb stuff.

• 29:20Echo Charles?

  Okay, cool. I won't. Hey, stop and think. We all hear that. Just stop and think, right? So look, if you just stop and think before you're about to smoke your first cigarette, stop and think, and then make a conscious decision, you'd be like, oh wait, I am probably not gonna smoke that cigarette.

• 29:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Which goes back to this very simple piece of advice. That's why this simple piece of advice is powerful. Uh, so there you go. And, and you know what? You're gonna see like a lot of these things are tied together. For instance, when you drink alcohol, your animalistic nature is more apt, closer to the surface. That's why we're fighting more, you know, like that's why, that's why you get done with a night of drinking and you swing by that pizzeria. You know, you're like, give me that triple cheese, right? Give me the triple cheese, you know, stack it up. Man, when I was in Guam, my first deployment, we would like drink. And then there was this freaking, uh, like 24 hour gas station food mart.

• 30:17Jocko Willink?

  And they had these microwavable rib sandwiches. And I would literally get five of them and just sit there and eat them at four o'clock in the morning.

• 30:26Echo Charles?

  Boneless?

• 30:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, just a boneless, but it's like a McRib sandwich that you threw in the microwave. I mean, there, there's probably nothing worse you could eat as a human.

• 30:37Echo Charles?

  I know.

• 30:37Jocko Willink?

  You know, but five, four o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, hungry.

• 30:42Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 30:43Jocko Willink?

  Let's eat this crap.

• 30:44Echo Charles?

  Yep.

• 30:45Jocko Willink?

  So, there you go. Uh, watch out for that. This next one, this one, you know, this next one's really obviously very, very, very clear, very prominent. Um, that's our ego. Could be as far as internally, as far as who we are, you take away the external drugs and alcohol. Ego is gonna be a huge problem. It's, we do so many dumb things because of our ego. And what's interesting is you start seeing the thread between the ego and sort of your animalistic drives. There's a connection, right? There's a connection between aggression. You know, when, when you get in my face, we're in a bar or, or, or in the supermarket, it doesn't really matter.

• 31:28Jocko Willink?

  You, you get in my face, you steal my cart, right?

• 31:33Echo Charles?

  Hell, yeah.

• 31:33Jocko Willink?

  And I get mad and, but, and I might get mad or I might be like, hey, what are you doing? But then you say, what are you gonna do about it? You just, you just attacked my ego.

• 31:40Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Jocko Willink?

  Now I might do some dumb shit.

• 31:42Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Jocko Willink?

  Because let's face it, what am I gonna, gonna, gonna get out of fighting you in the, in the Vons parking lot? What am I gonna get out of that? I'm not gonna get anything out of it. In fact, there's almost no good outcome. At a minimum, I skinned my, I broke a finger or skinned my knee. Or, I mean, at a maximum, I get killed, right? You shank me with a freaking, uh, a butter knife, a sharpened butter knife. Or you shoot me because you got concealed carry. Like, so what's happening? That's an ego situation. So, how many times are we doing dumb shit? Because our ego is getting in the way and driving our decision-making process? Again, this is something we talk about all the time from a leadership perspective, of course.

• 32:25Jocko Willink?

  Oh, Echo's got a plan and I've got my plan and I think my plan's better and my ego gets in the way. That's cool, we get that. But as far as just on an individual human being level, how much dumb stuff are you doing? Because your ego gets in the way? And the answer is a ton. That's the answer. Everything from an animalistic fight because your ego gets in the way to, you know, you're talking to your wife. And she says something that offends your ego, so what do you do? You snap back or what do you say, snap back or clap back?

• 32:58Echo Charles?

  I think it might be both.

• 33:00Jocko Willink?

  Okay, you get aggressive back at her. And now all of a sudden, you're escalating the situation. Now, instead of going out for dinner and having a nice Friday night, everything's a disaster. You're doing dumb stuff because your ego. What about your, you know, you're out with your buddies, you're 16 years old? And it's time to do something crazy. Oh, we're gonna jump off this thing, we're gonna dive over that thing, we're gonna throw things at this vehicle. Like, we're gonna get, do troublesome stuff. And you know it's not smart, then someone's like, oh, what are you, a wimp?

• 33:33Jocko Willink?

  Your ego gets offended. Now, what are you gonna do? Oh, watch this. I'm gonna prove it. So, we do dumb shit because of our ego. Put it in check. Now, it's not just a leadership thing, it's a life thing.

• 33:49Jocko Willink?

  It's a life thing, even this even a lot of peer pressure, peer pressure, they use ego as part of peer pressure. Well, what do you think you're too good? No, I'll do this too. Boom. Next thing you know, here, give me, pass me the cigarette. Stupid. Um, anything else on ego?

• 34:06Echo Charles?

  Yeah, that you said, um, you mentioned the thing with your wife where it's like, instead of a nice night out at dinner, things are a disaster. Yeah. So it's a, like you're literally talking from a detached perspectives because currently you're not in an argument with your wife. Or going out to dinner, by the way. So, but that's such a like, it makes it so clear when you point it out, right? So if you can even tell that that to yourself in, in, in your mind, like, oh, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? You want to go out to dinner and have a good time? Or you want to be in an argument with your wife for an indefinite amount of time? Cause your ego is a weird thing, worse than, could be worse than alcohol, by the way, but that's a side note. Um, so you ever watched, you watched Training Day, right? Oh yeah. So he would say this, he would say, he would do that, what you just did. He'd be like, hey, you want to go to jail? You want to go home?

• 34:51Echo Charles?

  And it puts you into that perspective where it's like, hmm, let me think. Cause we, you know, we all, even if we've never been to jail, we can kind of imagine what it's like to be in jail. And you're usually there for kind of a while, regardless if you're getting sentenced or not, you're getting held in jail. You're not there for a second, you know, you're there for, it's, it's a shitty day. Or you want to go home. We all know what it feels like to be home. You put those two thoughts in your mind and like, oh, I want to go home.

• 35:15Jocko Willink?

  Where he sets this up?

• 35:16Echo Charles?

  Uh, well, the first one is.

• 35:19Jocko Willink?

  Is he talking to perpetrators?

• 35:20Echo Charles?

  Yeah, the first one was, and then, um, and then he said, uh, I forget the second one he said it, and then Jake, the other guy said it to him too, at the end or whatever. But it was like the kind of a recurring thing. But yeah, exactly. It was like, yeah, you want to go to jail? You want to go home? Oh, he said it to Snoop Dogg. That was the second one, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah. I felt it.

• 35:40Jocko Willink?

  Uh, check. So there you go. Watch out for your ego. Let's face it, your ego, I'm get, I'm want you, internal forces, ego is number one.

• 35:52Echo Charles?

  I think you're right, and I think it's actually just as bad as alcohol, if not worse, cuz like, I think it might be worse because it's internal. But when you think about it, think about the effects, the potential effects. Some people, I get it, where they can drink alcohol or have an ego, that can kinda, they'll do, it'll do some damage. Sure, better to not have it, sure, technically, but no, no huge harm, no huge fall with alcohol and ego. But ego can literally ruin a relationship, many relationships with critical people like your family, or whatever, just ego.

• 36:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, you know what's, what's messed up about ego is, you know, you wake up from the dumb decision that you made when you were drunk. And at least you get to say, hey, I'm sorry.

• 36:32Echo Charles?

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 36:34Jocko Willink?

  And look, we're not, you have to take ownership of the fact that you were dumb enough to get drunk. But if your buddy does something when they're drunk, and you wake up in the morning, you're like, dude, they're like, bro, I'm so drunk. And you're kinda like, you get it. But if they're just doing it consciously, without any impairment, and it's cuz their ego, it's like they have no control over that. Just means that they're just bad.

• 36:55Echo Charles?

  It's exactly right. It's part of your personality, bro. So it's like, like Jocko was drunk, he told me like that he never really liked me. Or I don't know, something that was like, bruh, it kinda hurt us.

• 37:08Echo Charles?

  And then he can come back the next day, and you'll feel the guilt and be like, hey, I was drunk, and like freaking my judge, like, I don't even know why. You can apologize, really bring up the alcohol thing, and I can be like, I'll, I could see it. I mean, like, that makes sense to me.

• 37:18Jocko Willink?

  I've known, I've had plenty of friends that did dumb stuff.

• 37:21Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:22Jocko Willink?

  When they were drunk, and I was like, bro.

• 37:23Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 37:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and but forgiveness is very easy.

• 37:26Echo Charles?

  Yeah, and you might be weary next time they start drinking, and be like, okay, you know, you're gonna be dumb again. But when it's your ego, it's like, bro, that's not some external alcohol. That's part of who you are, bro, so you gotta watch out.

• 37:36Jocko Willink?

  What about when, what about when alcohol unleashes the ego too?

• 37:40Echo Charles?

  Oh, damn, the double whammy.

• 37:41Jocko Willink?

  You know, that's freaking ridiculous.

• 37:43Echo Charles?

  That's rough.

• 37:44Jocko Willink?

  And that, then you go, even though they're, they're like, I'm drunk, you're like, yeah, but that was, well, they're some real shit.

• 37:49Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 37:50Jocko Willink?

  The truth serum's coming out.

• 37:51Echo Charles?

  Yeah, and even that, though, it's like, again, there's levels to it, which, you know, obviously, but. That is a real thing when the ego comes out. Actually, that's pretty common right there. Like, fuck, I'm so like, because it can be some benign egotistical stuff you can say, like stuff that's like, if you could see yourself, you'd be embarrassed, but hey, man, you're not hurting my feelings. So carry on, brother.

• 38:12Jocko Willink?

  Wait, say that again. What's this for?

• 38:14Echo Charles?

  So if you're drunk and your ego comes out, you know, start bragging about yourself, all the cool stuff that you did and how awesome you are or whatever. Come on, bro. That's real. Some people do that kind of stuff, but that doesn't necessarily hurt anyone's feelings or nothing, you know? You didn't like do any kind of betrayal type stuff or like flip out on your girlfriend or hit her or nothing like that. Like it's benign, you know, it doesn't like, people can be like, yeah, you sounded dumb, but you're sober now. So whatever. Like you didn't ruin our relationship, you know? But it's still real nonetheless.

• 38:46Jocko Willink?

  All right. Watch out for your ego. Uh, next category. It's actually a pretty big category. The category is called emotions and look, we, we start looking at dumb shit that we did. Like how many freaking males between the ages of 16 and 25 have broken their hand punching a wall when they're mad? Have broken their car window, have broken their mirror, have put a hole in the drywall.

• 39:13Jocko Willink?

  How many guys have done that? Like it's a big number. It's a big, big number. So anger, it's real obvious. Your emotion gets out of jail, getting jealous. People do, I mean, let's face it. People murder people when they're jealous. They, they kill other people and go to, and kill themselves. And like, it's just uh, terrible. The anxiety.

• 39:37Jocko Willink?

  You know, you people are making bad decisions because they're, they're totally nervous about what's happening and it prevents them from moving forward. Guilt. Now, you know, there's some of these things, look, a certain level of guilt and shame, like those type of things, there's certain, certain reasons why those things keep you in line a little bit.

• 39:55Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Jocko Willink?

  You know, like, oh, like Echo's got, Echo's supposed to be moving today, but, and I was going to help him, but you know what? Oh, I'd rather, uh, you know, I feel guilty. I go help him move.

• 40:04Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 40:05Jocko Willink?

  You know?

• 40:05Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 40:06Jocko Willink?

  There's a certain level of this stuff. That's okay. But it can also, if it's taken too far, can be bad. Envy, same thing.

• 40:15Jocko Willink?

  Just getting in that point of sadness or depression where you don't feel like anything is worth anything. And now you do something stupid. So emotions.

• 40:26Jocko Willink?

  Can can make you do some dumb things. And and what's tricky about emotions is no one, well, I don't know what to say, no one. It's very difficult for someone to be able to externally show you that the emotions that you're feeling are not worth the decisions that you're making. You know, I mean, um, telling someone that just got dumped by their girlfriend, just got dumped by their boyfriend that like, hey, listen, you're going to be okay. You won't even remember that person, you know, you're in, you're in 10th grade. By the time you're 23, you will not remember this person's name, but you can't tell them that. You can't, they're just emotionally wrapped up.

• 41:10Jocko Willink?

  They got the, the, the anger, the sadness, the jet, it's all in there and they might do dumb stuff. So, teaching people as early as you can to be able to control their emotions.

• 41:26Jocko Willink?

  And I don't even want to say control your emotions, but, but imagine being able to harness and not be at the whim of your emotions, like surfing, right? Like, you, you don't just learn, you don't learn to stop waves from coming. You learn to ride the waves and not let them smash you into the rocks. That's what you learn to do. So, learning like, oh, there's some big emotions coming through me right now. I don't want to let those things push me into the rocks or let them hold me underwater. I want to be able to ride them and use them and not get abused by them. Pretty simple, straightforward concept.

• 42:07Jocko Willink?

  But very difficult, especially, you know, uh, let's face it, when you're, when you're a toddler, they have no emotional control. You know, someone takes their rattle, they start screaming, right? They start crying, right? A little rattle, right? And then as you get older, you, you should get more and more control over your emotions. That's what's supposed to happen. If you might not let, you might still have things happen where you don't get control of your emotions. So, the more you can explain that to people, the more you can explain that, hey, this is not a good idea.

• 42:43Jocko Willink?

  Hey, this is your emotions right now, which is real. Look, if you were freaking mad about something, I was like, hey, you're just getting emotional. You're not gonna be happy. It's gonna make you more emotional, actually. That's why I have in leadership strategy and tactics, you know, the whole idea of reflect and diminish like you gotta show you that I understand your emotions, like that kind of thing.

• 43:00Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 43:02Jocko Willink?

  But don't let your emotions drive your decision-making process. That's it.

• 43:09Echo Charles?

  That one, since it's a part of your natural self, emotions, it kind of seems like, and I'm not a psychologist, you know this about me. It's, but it does seem like, but it does seem like this sense is part of your natural self.

• 43:26Echo Charles?

  You kind of got to train that.

• 43:28Jocko Willink?

  Dude, a hundred percent.

• 43:28Echo Charles?

  Like alcohol, you don't have to train. You just don't drink alcohol, simply make the decision. But emotions, like you gotta kind of train that. Like you mentioned the surfing.

• 43:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 43:36Echo Charles?

  Like try to throw someone in me, you know, you know, me have a snowboarding background. So, you know, kind of the same deal. Throw them on a wave, brother, gonna be flipping out. They're gonna be fighting the wave all day. You know, even going, you know, like, uh, I'm teaching my son to go under the wave, right? It's when they get big. It doesn't matter how big the wave is, you go under, no, no factor, you know? But people don't be like, hey, the wave's gonna smash me. Why would I go down there and get smashed? It's like, that's the intuitive thing or whatever. But the more you do it, the more you're like, oh, here comes a big wave. Oh, they, the, my automatic thing is to go underneath, right? After you train or if you have that experience for a while. But emotion and so emotion is kind of that same thing where especially if you can detach, word I learned.

• 44:16Echo Charles?

  If you can detach and really identify, oh, I'm feeling this emotion right now, then, bro, it, it creates that perfect filter of emotions and behavior. You can still feel it.

• 44:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 44:25Echo Charles?

  Bro, try get a little, only like, oh, try get not enough sleep and deal with like a five-year-old who's determined. Doing something, bro, that'll be the test. But, and I've done that, say that because I've done that before. And I, I've found myself, oh, I'm feeling super frustrated with this kid right now, super frustrated. But I'm identifying, I can like see it almost like from a detachment. And I'm like, I won't flip out on them. Cause like, I'm not gonna make the decision right now to flip out on them. It's like perfect, it's that perfect filter, you know? But yeah, you gotta train that though. Cause it's face it, if you like, if you're one of these people who flips out all the time and you don't like mentally address it. You're just gonna flip out all the time. That's just how.

• 45:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And there's adults that flip out.

• 45:06Echo Charles?

  Yes, sir, there is.

• 45:07Jocko Willink?

  Freaking terrible. And what's really terrible is, you know, if I get angry. If you and I work together and when something's not going my way, I get angry and you just kinda like back down because you don't wanna, you don't want the drama?

• 45:17Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 45:18Jocko Willink?

  I guess what I just learned.

• 45:20Echo Charles?

  That works.

• 45:20Jocko Willink?

  My anger is good. My temper is good. And or if you're, you know, if I got, if I got my wife and I see that every time I get sad, she kinda like doesn't want me to be sad. So she kinda capitulates to my ideas. Now all of a sudden I'm getting reinforced that my little emotions will help me win.

• 45:37Echo Charles?

  That's a good, that's such a

• 45:38Jocko Willink?

  Or your wife can do that to you, you know, like, oh, you know, instead of just being like, okay, these are just emotions. I'm not gonna, we're not gonna, we're not gonna deal in emotions.

• 45:47Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Jocko Willink?

  Look, and this, once again, this doesn't mean you can ignore emotions. If your wife's sad about something, you can be like, hey, quit being emotional, right? Doesn't work. But no, put them in the calculus. But don't let them be the, the main force behind your decisions. Not gonna go good. I mean, it's as simple as like when you go to the, when you go to the grocery store when you're really hungry.

• 46:08Echo Charles?

  Yes.

• 46:09Jocko Willink?

  Dude, you're making all kinds of emotional decisions. You come out of there, you got freaking all kinds of food. I just went up on, on a trip and we were going, we were gonna be on the house. We're gonna be in this house for like four days. And we left early in the morning and then we drove and blah, blah, blah. And by the time we stopped at the grocery store, I was catabolic.

• 46:30Jocko Willink?

  I was in there buying all, we had enough food for a month. Not real, but we probably had enough food for two weeks.

• 46:36Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 46:37Jocko Willink?

  And we were in this, we were in the house for five days.

• 46:39Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 46:40Jocko Willink?

  At the end, I was like, dude, I'm an idiot. As a matter of fact, as soon as I ate, we got to the house, I ate and I was like, dude, how am I gonna eat all this? We got, I've been eating, I've been eating that, that mozzarella with the freaking, uh,

• 46:53Echo Charles?

  pepperoni?

• 46:54Jocko Willink?

  No, mozzarella, no, mozzarella, fresh mozzarella with basil.

• 46:59Echo Charles?

  Oh yeah, the tomato and the oil.

• 47:00Jocko Willink?

  And I don't like the tomato, but I put the oil and the balsamic vinegar on it. And, um, I got like so much of that. I had enough for weeks.

• 47:10Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:11Jocko Willink?

  And I didn't, I think I had one serving of it. So that's emotional decision. It's fact, it's funny because I, everyone knows that, but until right now, it's, it's emotional decisions. It's also the, uh, the animalistic drive. You're like, oh, food. I need as much as I can. I need to hoard as much as I can. Making bad decisions.

• 47:30Echo Charles?

  Yep. Did you get chips?

• 47:33Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 47:34Echo Charles?

  I feel like chips always sneak in there when you're hungry. Are you not into chips?

• 47:37Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, I'm, I'm definitely, I'll, I'll eat chips. I mean,

• 47:43Jocko Willink?

  chips taste delicious. Let me say that.

• 47:44Echo Charles?

  Right. So true. When you're like, right when you eat something, you immediately figure out all the dumb stuff you just bought. So true, right? So true.

• 47:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we got to the house, unpacked. And you know what the thing is, if I would have had a milk just before I walked in there, I'd been good to go.

• 48:00Echo Charles?

  Bro, it helps.

• 48:01Jocko Willink?

  It'd be good to go. Didn't do it.

• 48:04Echo Charles?

  Brother, uh, Girl Scout cookies, those peanut butter ones. Oh yeah. No, I eat the whole box. No problem.

• 48:10Jocko Willink?

  There's no factor.

• 48:10Echo Charles?

  No factor.

• 48:13Jocko Willink?

  Have a milk, intervene. Uh, so there you go. That's kind of a combination, animalistic emotions, the whole nine yards. Next one, peer pressure. We kind of brought this up already. You would do some dumb shit because of peer pressure. Hey, like you said, sure, there's a peer pressure that's like, come on, what are you a wimp? There's that. There's also the subliminal peer pressure. Where everyone's doing what, what's happening and they're kind of giving you just a look. They're not even saying anything. They're just looking at you. That peer pressure can make you do some dumb shit.

• 48:44Jocko Willink?

  Lack of confidence.

• 48:45Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 48:46Jocko Willink?

  Is, makes you more susceptible to peer pressure. The other thing that you got to remember with peer pressure is you think everyone's looking at you.

• 48:56Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 48:56Jocko Willink?

  They're actually not. Right. It's actually not that big of a deal, right? You think like, oh, everyone's watching me. Everyone's going to wonder if I'm going to smoke this or I'm going to do this. Actually, no one really cares. And the other thing is there's a level of respect when you hold the line and you have the confidence to be like, no, no, no, I'm not doing that tonight. So I'm not, I'm not doing that stupid. Maybe you don't have to say I'm stupid because now you're getting in an argument, you're causing problems, but just be like, no, no, I don't, you know, no, I don't drink. No, I'm not drinking tonight.

• 49:24Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 49:25Jocko Willink?

  They like the crabs in the bucket though. They like to drag you in there. They like to put that drink in your hand.

• 49:32Echo Charles?

  Do you remember the first time he's tried drinking?

• 49:35Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yeah, I guess so.

• 49:38Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Jocko Willink?

  But not really specifically.

• 49:40Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 49:41Jocko Willink?

  I'd have to think through that. I'd have to think through that.

• 49:45Echo Charles?

  The first time I tried to drink as like, I think as a kid, I'd like try a like a sip of beer. What does that taste like? But I remember the first time I like took a drink, you know, like it was like straight up peer pressure. I didn't start drinking, but it was straight up like there was like two guys, they snuck in, which is weird because our school was pretty like good. It was a tame school, but they snuck in a thing of Crown Royal. I remember because it had that bag on it. Then they were like, oh, come look, come, come, come. And one guy was one year younger than me. Uh, two guys were one year older than me and they were like, they're like, oh yeah, here. And they're and I was just sort of there because they were my friends, but I didn't drink. I didn't want to drink that like it. It didn't affect me at all. And they were like, um, here, here, you want some? And I was like, no, no, thanks. And I knew everyone knew that I wasn't into drinking or whatever.

• 50:30Echo Charles?

  And they go, oh yeah, that's okay. And then I looked over, I remember this, this guy's name is Owen. He, he had a, he looked at me. I don't think he even meant to. He looked at me kind of like, oh, like, dang, like, that's okay. It's okay. Like almost like he felt sorry for me, you know, like you look stupid right now, but it's okay. It's okay. You know, kind of like, almost like he felt sorry for me, but it was full on like, almost like unintended peer pressure. So he like gave me the same. I kind of looked up to him because he could bench a lot and stuff like that. And then so I was like, oh, give me it. I'll try it or whatever. And I like tried it. He's like, oh, it's warmer. And he was happy after that, you know? So I was like, that was full on. That's what that a hundred percent. That's what that was.

• 51:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I, I didn't start drinking until I got in the teams and for me, it wasn't like a, I kind of made a conscious decision like, oh, that's kind of what we're doing. Okay. I was okay. That's, that's what's happening.

• 51:23Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 51:23Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's what we do. Cool.

• 51:25Echo Charles?

  So technically that's peer pressure too.

• 51:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't like, uh, it wasn't this overt thing like, come on, Jocko, you need to know. No one said that to me. I was like, okay, looks like we're drinking. I've never really done this before, so let's rock and roll.

• 51:37Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 51:38Jocko Willink?

  And then I was like, okay. Oh, we're going hard. Cool. Pass me another one. That kind of thing. That's my, my son was a little kid. I'm talking like maybe five or six. Probably five, like little. And, you know, I had a couple of the boys over, whatever, we were having some beers. And my son was like, you know, he kinda like, like he wanted to try some. And I was like, cool. I'll teach him not to drink right now. Cause you know, beer doesn't taste good to a little kid. So I hand him a freaking rolling rock. And he like takes a sip and it's just like, within two seconds, just like, just trying to chug the whole thing. Like he took a sip, calculated, and then just boom, like right back up and starts trying to, I had to grab it away from him.

• 52:22Jocko Willink?

  Dude, what are you doing? I did not expect him to freaking go hard like that. Yeah, like a little kid.

• 52:29Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 52:30Jocko Willink?

  There's a dude on Instagram that, that, he's an Australian dude and he just like, he just drinks beer. He gets, he does this technique where he like spins it. Yeah. And he, he's, and he just chugs beer. That's his whole thing.

• 52:45Echo Charles?

  Yeah, there's a few of those. Yeah, that's crazy town right there.

• 52:49Jocko Willink?

  Should be in the morning, it could be in the afternoon, it could be in the evening. He's just gonna slay a beer. I forget his name. But he cracks me up.

• 52:59Echo Charles?

  That's another form of peer pressure right there.

• 53:01Jocko Willink?

  For him? For what? For us?

• 53:03Echo Charles?

  So, actually that technically is not peer pressure, right? But it's like influence. It's like bad influence, you know? It's like, oh, that's fun. It's fun. It's lighthearted. It's not that big of a deal. It's quirky. It's, you know? So it's not like, it's not like, remember the, the group? It was, I think, I'm pretty sure it was just anti-smoking, but they would call themselves like Truth. It would say Truth at the end. It was like a bunch of anti-smoking ads.

• 53:26Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 53:27Echo Charles?

  Do these crazy like morbid stunts. They'd lay out a bunch of what looked like dead bodies and be like, there's so many people you're killing every year and it's all these body bags. Anyway, they'd do that kinda, it's not like it was that, it's that. This Australian guy's making it fun. Kinda like, hey, like, that, that's the kinda behavior that elicits like copycat behavior, you know? Like, oh, let me do it, you know?

• 53:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. No, he looks like he's having a good time.

• 53:48Echo Charles?

  Good old time.

• 53:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 53:50Echo Charles?

  It is kinda cool, like, cause I seen some guys in real life do that kinda stuff and it's like, oh damn, it's pretty interesting.

• 53:55Jocko Willink?

  And he's got, you know, he's kinda got the attitude that just makes it sound like

• 54:01Echo Charles?

  Yeah, that's real.

• 54:02Jocko Willink?

  So, uh, that's peer pressure, though?

• 54:05Echo Charles?

  Yeah, but wait, you're back to your, the teams.

• 54:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 54:09Echo Charles?

  That is peer pressure, cuz you know, like you even said this where peer pressure can be good. If it's for good stuff, you know, so that's like

• 54:15Jocko Willink?

  Peer pressure in the teams, that's good.

• 54:17Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 54:17Jocko Willink?

  They're like, dude, what do you know, you know, oh, I was also like, oh, we're running, like, we're working out, like, okay, that's what we're doing. Cool, we're drinking, cool. I was just on board for what we were doing, like,

• 54:25Echo Charles?

  Bro.

• 54:26Jocko Willink?

  Whatever was happening, I was on board. I wanted to be doing what we're doing.

• 54:30Echo Charles?

  Bruh, hundred percent. Right, today, we trained today. You know, some good training today was the, um, you know.

• 54:38Echo Charles?

  So Vic texts me, or I talked to him on the phone like three days ago.

• 54:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 54:43Echo Charles?

  And he's like, hey, we're gonna train on Friday, too. I was, oh, yeah, cool, maybe, put, put it on the radar, you know? And then he's like, oh, you're not gonna come, or whatever, all this stuff. I'm like, no, no, I said, hey, maybe, you know, boom, peer pressure, that's the number one, that's one step closer to the, to the persuasion. He said, I'm gonna text you tomorrow as a reminder. He does step two, cuz he told me, text me. Now, if I don't show, I, I made a decision. I didn't just forget about it like I do all the time, so.

• 55:07Jocko Willink?

  What was the closer?

• 55:09Echo Charles?

  Bruh, we know what the closer is. You, and this is actually the most influence, I even told him this today, where you, when you text, you'll put like, if you're, Sometimes you'll offer up some training, you know, but if I'm into something, I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna catch you next time, or whatever, but sometimes you'll put, Hey, we're gonna record after we, capital we, train. You can't not go. At that point, it's like, hey, you gotta shuffle some things around. I have plans to do squats.

• 55:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So you didn't do squats, why didn't you do squats before, prior to?

• 55:39Echo Charles?

  Cuz I trained.

• 55:40Jocko Willink?

  You were gonna do squats after?

• 55:42Echo Charles?

  Maybe, maybe I'll do squats tonight, maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

• 55:44Jocko Willink?

  I'm very, very excessively thankful that I worked out this morning.

• 55:49Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 55:49Jocko Willink?

  And I don't have to go home and work out.

• 55:51Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 55:51Jocko Willink?

  Cuz that session that we just did, first of all, I was not having a good day. You know what I mean?

• 55:55Echo Charles?

  Hard day.

• 55:56Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? I was, I, I didn't wanna go, you know, I didn't wanna go.

• 56:01Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 56:01Jocko Willink?

  I Didn't want to go. If there was a little bell to ring, I would have been like, whoa, what's that? You know, of course, I'm not ringing it. But I didn't want to go. So I know I'm already. So that's already going in there. Like you already are, you know, you're gonna be hurting.

• 56:16Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 56:17Jocko Willink?

  And then, you know, that mat right there, you're not having any easy rounds at all. Zero easy rounds. You're not even gonna have, you're not really even gonna have an easy 28 seconds. You're not gonna have an easy minute and a half.

• 56:30Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Jocko Willink?

  Even when you're in between rounds, you're like breathing.

• 56:35Echo Charles?

  Yeah, you gotta, you're focusing on recovery. Oh, yeah.

• 56:37Jocko Willink?

  So that peer pressure can be a good thing.

• 56:41Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 56:42Jocko Willink?

  It can also make you do some dumb shit.

• 56:43Echo Charles?

  Exactly right. So peer pressure technically is like, that's not the, the cat, the, um, the bad guy in the scenario. It's the dumb shit. That's the bad guy.

• 56:54Jocko Willink?

  Jack, right along in there is group think. Right. This is peer pressure, but it's like, it's like amplified peer pressure is group think. This is wearing a mob. This is somebody starts breaking shit and you start breaking shit too. You start doing dumb shit.

• 57:09Jocko Willink?

  Making decisions based on what everybody else is doing, bad. Then there's this whole genre of, of just doing impulsive things. And this is sort of a result of a bunch of different things that are happening, right? Some people are genetically impulsive, by the way. People have genetic impulsiveness. Sometimes it's based on what's going on inside your brain as far as a brain chemistry type scenario, like dopamine can make you impulsive to do, to get a little bit more dopamine right now, even though you know it's not smart. I mean, look, that's what's taking over our minds right now with the people that are on their social media on their phones. That's just dopamine. They know, they're just impulsively swiping. The, the brain is not even thinking about what's

• 57:54Jocko Willink?

  happening. They're just looking to the next freaking reel.

• 57:58Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Jocko Willink?

  Or whatever. So that impulsiveness is, and you know, some people have more self-control. Look, I believe just like all of our traits, there's a certain amount of self-control that you have. You can improve it, or you can let it get worse. But.

• 58:19Jocko Willink?

  I recommend you try and improve it. I recommend you pause for seven seconds before you do something. Also, you know what's funny is when people impulsively buy. You ever sense someone say it's an impulsive buy?

• 58:30Echo Charles?

  Of course, impulse buy. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Bro, yeah, well, you know, supermarket is set up. Where that's part of the, part of the funnel. It's a funnel.

• 58:39Jocko Willink?

  You get to the counter, there's a freaking chocolate bar.

• 58:43Echo Charles?

  Impulse buy all day.

• 58:44Jocko Willink?

  They put little things that are gonna give you immediate gratification. Like, you're gonna get something that's, you're gonna get to eat in, in nine more seconds.

• 58:52Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 58:53Jocko Willink?

  Throw it in the register. Throw it in the self-checkout. Beep beep.

• 58:56Echo Charles?

  Impulse buy, bro.

• 58:58Jocko Willink?

  So, that, isn't that crazy? You can make dumb decisions. You can do dumb shit because you're just being impulsive.

• 59:04Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 59:04Jocko Willink?

  What's the biggest impulse buy you've ever made?

• 59:07Echo Charles?

  Biggest? Top man? I don't know.

• 59:09Jocko Willink?

  Vehicle?

• 59:10Echo Charles?

  No. No.

• 59:13Jocko Willink?

  House?

• 59:13Echo Charles?

  Thankfully, I'm very, um, what do you call, what's the opposite of impulsive?

• 59:19Echo Charles?

  Not impulsive.

• 59:19Jocko Willink?

  Pragmatic, deliberate, deliberate.

• 59:21Echo Charles?

  I'm pretty deliberate with the buy stuff, with the exception of the freaking Reese's sticks. You ever ate that before? But, they're kinda like, you know what Kit Kats are? You know Kit Kat, right? So it's like a Kit Kat, but a big, big, beefy version of Kit Kat with peanut butter, too. So this chocolate and peanut butter.

• 59:38Jocko Willink?

  I don't know if that would, that Kit Kat, especially, the thing about, the thing about Kit Kats, I used to have them in the summertime.

• 59:44Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 59:45Jocko Willink?

  From the concession stand. And they were kept in a fridge. So they were cool.

• 59:52Echo Charles?

  Bro, if you like Kit Kat, but you gotta like peanut butter too. So you know Reese's, but is that like your jammy jam?

• 59:57Jocko Willink?

  No, no, I'm saying for me, a Kit Kat, just a cool Kit Kat in the, in the summertime.

• 1:00:01Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Jocko Willink?

  I don't need the peanut butter. Peanut butter is a warm thing to me.

• 1:00:06Echo Charles?

  I dig it, but it's different. Yeah, to me, the, and look, I'm not advocating for this, because this, I'm talking about impulse buys straight up. So reflecting on that, that being said, the Reese's sticks to me is the best candy bar ever created, like kinda by far too. Like, a distant maybe second is like a Butterfinger scenario, or like a-

• 1:00:24Jocko Willink?

  I'll have to look into it.

• 1:00:25Echo Charles?

  Yeah. It's called Reese's sticks.

• 1:00:27Jocko Willink?

  Reese's sticks. I'm, I know I've bought some impulsive things before, and just been like. Dude, I'm not smart. I can't think of any though. I'm gonna have to think about this one.

• 1:00:37Echo Charles?

  Actually, I did have an impulse buy, but it was, it turned out.

• 1:00:41Jocko Willink?

  What was it?

• 1:00:42Echo Charles?

  A red cam, the red V Raptor that I have. No.

• 1:00:44Jocko Willink?

  The new one?

• 1:00:45Echo Charles?

  Yeah, the, the white one that have the V Raptor. It's right when I can, so when you buy a red camera, they're, they're good cameras, obviously. So.

• 1:00:52Jocko Willink?

  They're expensive.

• 1:00:53Echo Charles?

  They're expensive, yes.

• 1:00:54Jocko Willink?

  They're way more expensive. If you don't know anything about this, if you told them how much it costs, people would be like, what in God's name are you talking about?

• 1:01:00Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Jocko Willink?

  This isn't like, oh, like seventeen hundred bucks.

• 1:01:04Echo Charles?

  No.

• 1:01:04Jocko Willink?

  This is a totally different scenario.

• 1:01:06Echo Charles?

  Yeah, they, yeah, so, yeah, they, it costs more than your average car.

• 1:01:11Jocko Willink?

  How much is it? I mean, just to save people having to Google and look this up, how much is a red camera Raptor, whatever you're talking about?

• 1:01:17Echo Charles?

  V Raptor just for the body, which it's twenty, twenty-nine or twenty-four ninety-nine, twenty-four nine ninety-nine, twenty-four thousand nine hundred ninety-nine dollars.

• 1:01:27Jocko Willink?

  Twenty-five thousand dollars.

• 1:01:28Echo Charles?

  For just the body though.

• 1:01:30Jocko Willink?

  No batteries?

• 1:01:31Echo Charles?

  No batteries, no lens, no viewfinder, no monitor, nothing. Just the body. So you can't even use it.

• 1:01:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38Echo Charles?

  You gotta buy lenses and it only fits cinema lenses with a full frame. Like, it's a whole thing. And those tend to be a lot more expensive as well.

• 1:01:45Jocko Willink?

  This is a hundred grand scenario?

• 1:01:47Echo Charles?

  For the kit, no, for the V Raptor, and they're way less expensive than they were at the camera before that, but it, now they're, they're cheaper because they push them out, I think, more efficiently or whatever. But all in, it was like, probably for that kit that I have to, that particular one, it's probably like forty, almost forty, like thirty-six, thirty-eight.

• 1:02:05Jocko Willink?

  And that was an impulse buy?

• 1:02:06Echo Charles?

  That was an impulse buy, and this is why I know. So, no, I won't go too deep into it, but when you buy red cameras, you're part of like.

• 1:02:15Jocko Willink?

  A club.

• 1:02:15Echo Charles?

  Yeah, for lack of a better term. So, um, when I got the first one, way back in the day, the red one, for people who know cameras, you're gonna remember the red one, it's literally, it weighs like twenty pounds. It's like a cast iron trick.

• 1:02:27Jocko Willink?

  Was that, was that with the podcast?

• 1:02:30Echo Charles?

  I did the good video. Remember good?

• 1:02:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Echo Charles?

  That was like episode like five. I did that with the red one.

• 1:02:35Jocko Willink?

  That, so that was the first one you bought?

• 1:02:37Echo Charles?

  First one I bought. The only reason I, and that was twenty-five grand for the body too. This was back in the day. Here's the thing, I didn't get it for twenty-five grand. The reason I got it, they were getting rid of, they're discontinuing it. This is the least practical camera probably I've ever even touched with my bare hands. So it's cast iron, like suit, like there's no, it's, it's really hard to use, but it's a red, you know? And they're, they're getting rid of them and they're offering um certain people on their list or whatever list I was on um. The opportunity to buy um, no, it was part of like some forum. And so you could buy it for four grand because they're getting rid of them.

• 1:03:11Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:03:11Echo Charles?

  Yeah. So I like, I didn't know how to use it, never used it before. I was just like, I know it's a deal, so I got it. And I just freaking spent the next like three months saving up money to get the accessories to be able to use it. Finally be able to use it for however many years. And then they offered to trade it for the new like helium eight K. You know, you heard of four K, this is like eight K, whatever. Trade it in, you can get a big discount on this thing. I was like frick, but it's only to a certain amount of people. So that technically was an impulse buy too. So anyway, this is how red does it.

• 1:03:42Jocko Willink?

  They know how to capitalize on your impulse.

• 1:03:44Echo Charles?

  Yes, exactly right. In a nutshell, if you're a red owner.

• 1:03:48Jocko Willink?

  Because they're like, hey, this is only gonna be an offer right now. They capitalize on this stuff.

• 1:03:51Echo Charles?

  We don't have that many. That's the thing. It's new. We don't have that many. So they contact, once you're in the red ecosystem is where you own it.

• 1:03:57Jocko Willink?

  Ego working.

• 1:03:59Echo Charles?

  Yep.

• 1:03:59Jocko Willink?

  They get your emotions working.

• 1:04:00Echo Charles?

  Yep.

• 1:04:01Jocko Willink?

  They get your animalistic competitiveness working. Competitiveness is a, we didn't talk about that.

• 1:04:05Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Jocko Willink?

  Like you'll do some dumb shit just from being competitive.

• 1:04:07Echo Charles?

  Yep. Oh yeah. And that's, that was exactly right where I had the red helium and they were like, hey, you're on our list. You know, we're coming out with this thing called the V Raptor and I heard about it already and all these like all this tech. It was like, man, that was if you have that one, that's it. It's no one else has it. Only the people on it. So it was like me. There were, I don't know how many people were on the list, but like Jason, you know, Jason Momoa.

• 1:04:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Echo Charles?

  He was on the list, like, so I felt like.

• 1:04:31Jocko Willink?

  Damn dude.

• 1:04:32Echo Charles?

  Right. It was if you got the white one, you were one of, you're one of the first people to get it.

• 1:04:36Jocko Willink?

  They made?

• 1:04:36Echo Charles?

  I don't know.

• 1:04:37Jocko Willink?

  Do they have a serial number on it? Do they number them?

• 1:04:39Echo Charles?

  Yeah. Well, you know, when you insure it, you have this serial number or whatever. But when you know that going in, they're like, hey, you don't have to buy it. You can, if we, if we choose to continue making these, you can, you can wait till then. Oh yeah, for sure.

• 1:04:53Jocko Willink?

  You got plenty.

• 1:04:55Echo Charles?

  But thankfully, you know, like when I got it, it was all that, you know, everyone was expecting it to be and you know, we. We put it together and it was, it's legit.

• 1:05:06Jocko Willink?

  It's worth it.

• 1:05:07Echo Charles?

  The reason that I shouldn't have done it though is because I bought the, what's called a Monstro. That's the, that's the really expensive one at the time. I bought that like literally two months before.

• 1:05:19Echo Charles?

  So I got three Red Cameras, like literally right now, I have three of that original Helium AK. Got the Monstro and then the V Raptor. Hey, full-fledged production over here.

• 1:05:31Jocko Willink?

  Not bad to record a podcast.

• 1:05:33Echo Charles?

  No, no, it's very unrealistic.

• 1:05:35Jocko Willink?

  No, I know. They're freaking crazy.

• 1:05:37Echo Charles?

  Yeah, but that was.

• 1:05:38Jocko Willink?

  If you're wondering, we actually, this is not recorded on the Red Camera because it would be just like crazy amount of data.

• 1:05:45Echo Charles?

  Oh yeah, you'd have over a terabyte of stuff just for the podcast.

• 1:05:51Jocko Willink?

  Alright, so watch your impulsiveness. It'll make you do dumb things. Uh, we do the dumb things, just some technical ones here, time pressure.

• 1:06:01Jocko Willink?

  There's, there's another thing they threw in the mix on you. Like, like, hey, oh, there's only a certain amount of time. So we do dumb things because we don't have the time. So you have to pay attention to that. You have to stay ahead of the power curve. You have to not put yourself into situations where you're gonna do dumb shit because you didn't have time to do it the right way. Uh, and there's a couple here that are, are sort of, well, I guess these two kind of connect as I was thinking through them. People do dumb shit because they lack experience or they lack information. The, these are both a little bit harder to, to control yourself. Because it, it's the classic, you don't know what you don't know.

• 1:06:45Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's so you actually really truly don't know the, all the best you can do to, to, to cover the bases and mitigate these is to know that you don't know. To know that there's things that you don't know. To not be like, oh, I got this. Oh, you know, whoa, I, I can figure this out. You know, to, to, to put yourself in that situation, you should be more humble. I think humility is what helps you with these two. You know, when you don't have the experience, it's, it's like the, the person that shows up for the jiu-jitsu that like is a street fighter. And they're like, bro, I can, I like, they look at some skinny freaking 150 pound dude and they're like, bro, I'm gonna beat this guy's ass. And they just literally don't have the experience. And they don't have the information.

• 1:07:29Jocko Willink?

  So you this the the the solution for that to me is humility. It's actually saying, hey, I'm I'm I'm not so sure about this. You should never look at anything and think, yeah, it looks pretty easy.

• 1:07:42Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Jocko Willink?

  And now you should think like, no, there's some there's some things I don't see there.

• 1:07:46Echo Charles?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:47Jocko Willink?

  There's some there's some information that I don't have.

• 1:07:49Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Jocko Willink?

  That's what that should be your go to default mode is I'm not a hundred percent sure. And I'm gonna keep my eyes open as I try and figure this out.

• 1:07:57Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Jocko Willink?

  Otherwise, you might do some dumb shit.

• 1:08:01Echo Charles?

  You know about plumbing.

• 1:08:02Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I do.

• 1:08:03Echo Charles?

  So I was talking to Kino about this very thing today. So I don't know anything.

• 1:08:08Jocko Willink?

  Why the hell were you talking about freaking plumbing with Kino?

• 1:08:11Echo Charles?

  It's a thing.

• 1:08:11Jocko Willink?

  Why don't you talk about jujitsu?

• 1:08:13Echo Charles?

  I would do talk about jujitsu from time to time.

• 1:08:15Jocko Willink?

  Plumbing, go.

• 1:08:16Echo Charles?

  So I had an issue with a toilet in my household.

• 1:08:20Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:08:22Echo Charles?

  And it was, you know, it was like a thing where something had worn out or whatever. And so I'm like, you know, something it was like the little the thing that connected the the. I want to say the flush valve.

• 1:08:32Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:08:33Echo Charles?

  You see, I know all these terms now because I looked into it. But this is a classic case of me not knowing what I don't know. So I go in, I'm like, you know, I'm looking up on YouTube like I've solved many of my problems in my life. And, you know, figure it out. So I look it up on YouTube and it's like boom, they just you got the diagram. You got a guy do this or whatever. And I'm like, cool. Um, I even looked it up just on a on the internet like a diagram. So I'm like, cool, I understand how this whole thing works now. Right? So I go in and of course it doesn't like work out. The thing's just as broken as it ever was. I don't know what material, so I'm like, all right. Let me just study this whole thing. So I go back to YouTube, keep watching it. So I found this channel. I wish I could tell you which one what which one it was, but it was one of these like kind of bigger channels. Like a it could have been like a Home Depot channel or something. I don't know if it was or not, I forget.

• 1:09:15Echo Charles?

  But so the guy goes into it and it's this long ass video and I'm about to skip it because I need to solve it right now. See what I'm saying? But I'm like, no, let me just commit some time. So I commit the time and he starts talking about all these issues that can arise when you're just trying to fix this one issue. So he talks about like his experience with certain times where he had to fix this issue. So this one time I was still having this problem. So I had to go back over here because sometimes these are made like this. And he's doing all this, he's basically giving me like his personal experience on this thing. And for every additional thing that he would say, he demonstrated to me how much I don't know.

• 1:09:48Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:49Echo Charles?

  And how much it's not just like, hey, you're gonna go in and he's gonna tell me how to do it.

• 1:09:53Jocko Willink?

  So what was the outcome?

• 1:09:54Echo Charles?

  I ended up fixing it. It's a longer story and it doesn't matter. But that was me not knowing what I don't know.

• 1:10:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Echo Charles?

  So I wasn't about to take apart my whole toilet because that was one of the

• 1:10:03Jocko Willink?

  Luckily, you were humble enough to recognize that there could be some shit going sideways.

• 1:10:07Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Jocko Willink?

  Literally.

• 1:10:08Echo Charles?

  Before I made it. Exactly right. Like before I made like a big commitment to, you know, because one of the options that I came across in my haste was take out the whole toilet and just replace the whole toilet. But obviously I didn't have to do that, but

• 1:10:22Jocko Willink?

  We're not looking to do that.

• 1:10:23Echo Charles?

  Yeah, not knowing what you don't know can cause you to do that kind of dumb stuff.

• 1:10:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:27Echo Charles?

  Where it's like, oh, well, that, oh, that's the option because that's the first advice I got or whatever. Because in my mind, that's the only advice that I've ever heard. So do it.

• 1:10:37Jocko Willink?

  Yep. The humility will help you with your lack of experience and your lack of information in life. And it's just really good to remember because you don't know what you don't know. And so you think you know and you don't.

• 1:10:51Jocko Willink?

  Uh, and right in there too is another one similar is the lack of self-awareness. Right? You, you're just not self-aware. So you're doing dumb shit because you're, because you're not self-aware. You think people can't see the dumb things that you're doing. You think you're outmaneuvering people. All those things stem from the fact that you just, you're not self-aware.

• 1:11:12Jocko Willink?

  So how do we get, gain self-awareness? Number one, if you think you're super self-aware, you're probably not.

• 1:11:20Jocko Willink?

  You're probably not. So take a step back, detach. That's what we have to do there. Uh, I had to throw this one in there because it does happen. Uh, physical and mental fatigue, right? Sleep deprivation, like all those, when you get tired, you can do some dumb shit. That, that's what can happen. And people make bad decisions when they're physically tired. People make bad decisions when they're mentally tired. And they just break down. Yeah. Have you ever watched True Detective?

• 1:11:50Echo Charles?

  Yes, but not very much.

• 1:11:51Jocko Willink?

  Okay. Uh, there's this part in True Detective, it's really good. The fir- I didn't wa- the, the, the second one got a bunch of bad reviews, so I didn't watch it, but the first one's freaking great.

• 1:12:01Jocko Willink?

  Uh, who?

• 1:12:04Echo Charles?

  Woody?

• 1:12:04Jocko Willink?

  Y- no.

• 1:12:06Echo Charles?

  McConaughey.

• 1:12:07Jocko Willink?

  Yes, Matthew McConaughey plays this, uh, badass character. And he's talking about, he's looking, he's a, he's a detective, he's talking to, talking to some other defec- detectives that are investigating him. And he's talking about how he's looking at dead bodies, like photographs of dead bodies over and over and over again. He's seen all these dead bodies over his time in the, in the police force. And he says, he's, it's, it's great, you gotta watch it. But he's talking about how when you look at these pictures, these dead people, you can see that just before they died, they saw for a moment how easy it would be if they just let it go. Like, at that moment of death, they go, you know what?

• 1:12:52Jocko Willink?

  It's over. And, and he goes on this big thing about, they realize that all the love and all the hate and all the things were a dream that you had inside a lockbox, blah, blah, blah. He goes through this thing. But that's an extreme example of what happens when people just break. They just break from fatigue, right? They just break. They just can't take it anymore. And they just go, you know what, I'm done. That's one thing. That's, that's like the ultimate bad decision that you make is like, oh, I just give up. But there's all kinds of bad decisions that you can make based on the fact that you're tired. But sometimes it's not mentally breaking, sometimes you're just not thinking straight.

• 1:13:29Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Jocko Willink?

  I don't know if you've ever been around people that are, they're legitimately, they're so tired, they're not thinking straight. You know, you get people that have been seriously sleep deprived. They might be, they might be doing some dumb shit. So I had to throw that one in there physically and mental, physical and mental fatigue can definitely make people make bad decisions. And now we're gonna open up a big can. Something you and I have talked about on the Underground podcast quite a bit, which is cognitive bias- biases. And people have a bunch of different cognitive biases and they will make you do dumb shit.

• 1:14:07Jocko Willink?

  So confirmation bias, you know, when you, when you, when you have a belief, you're looking to confirm that belief and you will, you will absorb the information that's going to support your decision. And you're going to do some dumb shit because you just are listening to the people that are telling you that it's smart.

• 1:14:27Jocko Willink?

  You, you know, you can find, oh, for instance, like, let's say you like, let's say you don't like to run. You can go find a bunch of articles right now that'll be like, oh, you can get, you can actually find running is bad for you.

• 1:14:41Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42Jocko Willink?

  You can find enough articles that'll confirm that you're right, running is bad for you.

• 1:14:45Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:45Jocko Willink?

  Uh, lifting heavy. You don't really like to lift heavy? Cool. You can go find a bunch of articles that injury prone and blah, blah, blah, blah, stiffness and blah, blah. You can find it. So you will make bad decisions based on the fact that you are, you have confirmation bias. Availability bias, a similar one. This is like you act based on the most recent information or the most available information. This is why, you know, when you Google something, you're like, oh, what's the best knife to buy? There's people that are paying to make the most available click, the one that comes up first. They've, somebody paid for that. And so therefore it looks like this is the best knife came up. There it is. Boom.

• 1:15:29Jocko Willink?

  Anchoring bias. This is when you, when you get addicted or you rely on the first piece of information that you have.

• 1:15:36Echo Charles?

  It's why first impressions are so important.

• 1:15:38Jocko Willink?

  First impressions, very important. This is, this is something I used to see on the SEAL teams, which was whatever, the first way someone learned to do something is the way they thought was correct. And it was really hard to change people's minds

• 1:15:53Jocko Willink?

  around a new procedure. If they had learned in their first platoon, this is how you do it.

• 1:16:00Jocko Willink?

  So you gotta, you, you've got to be careful that, that piece of information that you got first. And the same thing, this is like, I think we talked about this when we talked about negotiation, right?

• 1:16:13Jocko Willink?

  The, you can use anchoring to offset somebody.

• 1:16:17Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Jocko Willink?

  You know, I can use it to mess you up. I can give you a low ball offer that you're now anchored to, and you're like, geez, Jocko offered me seven dollars for this knife. I thought it was worth seven hundred. And I'm like, I'll give you seven bucks for it. And all of a sudden, when I offer you fifty, you're like, I'll take it.

• 1:16:31Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:34Jocko Willink?

  So be careful that hindsight bias, the tendency to believe that an event was more predictable or obvious than it actually was after it occurred. I knew he was gonna win that fight, right?

• 1:16:50Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:52Jocko Willink?

  I knew he was gonna win that fight. I'll tell you what, I, I think I'm pretty good at, when it comes to MMA, right, it's almost like all bets are off. Like, it's almost like I just look at it like, I just don't think I can predict what's gonna happen. There's, and this is for a reason. There's been fights that have happened where I was like, this is a hundred percent, this is a done deal. Although I did it the other night. Did you watch the fights the other night?

• 1:17:15Echo Charles?

  Yes.

• 1:17:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, um, watching Valentina get beat, like I, the announcer, John Anick, said like, as, what was the other girl's name?

• 1:17:29Echo Charles?

  I don't know.

• 1:17:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like she came out of nowhere, props to her. She's a badass. The, John Anick says, oh, and she's got much improved jujitsu. And I'm like, bro, that's what you're bragging about? And she has, and she ends up with a rear naked choke victory over Bullet Valentina. Amazing.

• 1:17:49Jocko Willink?

  I don't fall into this trap though. But I did that night. I did, I was like, dude, this is, good luck against, you got improving jujitsu and that's your, and then she got a rear naked choke. But I immediately was like, dude, I'm an idiot. I'm not saying anything else. I've, I've, if I would have bet, and there's been a couple of times in my life where I did bet actual money on fights and I was wrong. And things that I was like, this is a done deal. This is a done deal. And just been wrong. But I'm certainly not a person that gets done and says, yeah, I knew that was gonna happen.

• 1:18:22Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:25Jocko Willink?

  So be careful that hindsight bias framing bias.

• 1:18:30Jocko Willink?

  This is the way information is presented or framed. So.

• 1:18:38Jocko Willink?

  If someone like if a doctor says this has a 90% success rate. That sounds better to them than saying, hey, if I do surgery on your arm, it's 90% gonna heal. You'd be like, okay, cool. If I say, hey, if I do surgery on your arm, 10% chance it doesn't work anymore. You're like, wait a second, what are you talking about? I should just tell you 90%. That's the way it's framed to you. That can mess up hard. That makes you do dumb shit.

• 1:19:00Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah. So you ever watched Teen Wolf? Remember back in the day, Teen Wolf?

• 1:19:03Jocko Willink?

  I never got into that. Was that a TV show or was it a movie?

• 1:19:06Echo Charles?

  Movie. Then they did a TV show later, but I'm talking about the movie, the original.

• 1:19:09Jocko Willink?

  This is Michael J. Fox.

• 1:19:12Echo Charles?

  So we had a basketball coach named Bobby Finstock. One of your, one of the best characters ever created, in my opinion, but super like just checked out coach, just so used to his tradition of losing. He's like, you know, anyway, he had a famous like pregame speech. They're like, hey, coach, you got any inspiring words or whatever he said? He's like, uh, yeah.

• 1:19:36Echo Charles?

  Hey, you guys have nothing to be ashamed of. Go out there and do your best. That's what he said. So it's like, of course, you know, like the facts are nothing to be ashamed of, do your best. Like, that's all factually true, but what he, how he framed it was like. You guys already or we all have like things on our mind that we're ashamed of, you know, about this team, which, you know, they were losing teams or whatever. But how he framed it was like, you guys already lost, you know, you don't be, you got nothing to be ashamed of, kind of a thing. It's that framing bias.

• 1:20:04Jocko Willink?

  Does in Teen Wolf, does the guy turn into a wolf on the basketball court?

• 1:20:09Echo Charles?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:09Jocko Willink?

  And they like let him play?

• 1:20:12Echo Charles?

  Yeah, he's all good at it. Yeah, he mutates or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And then he's all good. He can, he can dunk and stuff. And then he turned super popular in school. Girls are attracted to him for some reason.

• 1:20:22Jocko Willink?

  He literally got, he's like hairy.

• 1:20:24Echo Charles?

  Yeah, he's half wolf, werewolf, whatever.

• 1:20:26Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:20:27Echo Charles?

  It's a fun movie, though.

• 1:20:29Jocko Willink?

  Some things that'll make you do dumb shit bias wise, overconfidence bias. Clear what that is. And there's also underconfidence bias, right? Like, you don't think you can do it. Well. You're probably not gonna make a good decision. You know, if you've got an opportunity to do something like, I could never do that. Cool. Then you don't do it. And now you don't get the win or overconfident. I could do this. No problem. Make your decision and you end up looking like a jackass. So be careful that sunk cost fallacy. These are all kind of ones that we know about. Gambler's fallacy. The event, the, the belief that past events influence the likelihood of future events, even when the two events are unrelated.

• 1:21:14Jocko Willink?

  For example, believing that a coin toss is more likely to land on heads if it has landed on tails several times in a row. That'll get you. It's still a 50 50 chance, man. Oddly enough, it's still just a 50 50 chance.

• 1:21:26Echo Charles?

  That's the weird.

• 1:21:27Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't seem like it is, but it is.

• 1:21:28Echo Charles?

  That's one of those, I mean, most cognitive biases fall into this, but you kind of got to train yourself in a way and like, you have to be super aware. Cause that one in particular, just like how you mentioned, it doesn't feel like it. And that one's really hard to like, believe at first, especially when you're like, because there's ways to look at it.

• 1:21:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:48Echo Charles?

  Because so if you're like, if you're like, hey, I have this coin and I'm gonna flip it 10 times in a row. It's gonna land on heads. That's a different set of odds right there than you actually flipping it. And then it happens to go on heads nine times in a row. And then the likelihood of it landing on heads again is, is still 50 50. But before you flip any of the coins ever and you say, I'm gonna flip it 10 times in a row. Then you got a different set of odds and it's crazy. See what I'm saying? So some people and I'm one of these people, cause I thought I had roulette figured out.

• 1:22:19Jocko Willink?

  I was about to bring up roulette.

• 1:22:23Echo Charles?

  Where I thought that I was like, cause I was thinking of it like before any roles have done. So I was like, hey, if I get, you know, if I'm gonna bet on red or black or whatever, and I'm just keep betting on that red. Cause the, the, the chances of it landing on red, like however many times in a row becomes smaller and smaller and smaller exponentially. So I'm guaranteed to win at least my money back. So it's like a foolproof system. See what I'm saying?

• 1:22:44Jocko Willink?

  You figured it out.

• 1:22:45Echo Charles?

  Yeah, that's what I figured and.

• 1:22:48Jocko Willink?

  It's when it hits green, you're like.

• 1:22:50Echo Charles?

  Well, after every roll, the odds go back to what they were in the beginning. So technically it doesn't, technically, yes, that's true. But as you start rolling, it's, it's different.

• 1:22:59Jocko Willink?

  Did you do the thing where you like double your money that you're betting and you see what I'm saying?

• 1:23:04Echo Charles?

  Yeah, I never did it.

• 1:23:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Echo Charles?

  I never played. I mean, I. Yeah, I never did my system.

• 1:23:09Jocko Willink?

  So basically you can do like, oh, I bet a dollar on black.

• 1:23:12Echo Charles?

  Right, right.

• 1:23:13Jocko Willink?

  If I lose, I put two dollars on black. If I lose again, I put four dollars on black.

• 1:23:17Echo Charles?

  Right.

• 1:23:18Jocko Willink?

  If I lose again, I'll put eight dollars on black.

• 1:23:20Echo Charles?

  Yeah, that was the system, essentially.

• 1:23:23Jocko Willink?

  It's not gonna work.

• 1:23:24Echo Charles?

  I never tried it out.

• 1:23:24Jocko Willink?

  And what's weird, what makes it not work out is not only that it resets, but there's also that the two aughts, the two greens on there.

• 1:23:32Echo Charles?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:23:33Jocko Willink?

  Eight fifty fifty, bro. It's not.

• 1:23:35Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Jocko Willink?

  It'll catch you. Um, let's see, halo effect. This is like when you judge people's overall characteristics based on one characteristic. Like that'll make you make bad decisions.

• 1:23:49Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:50Jocko Willink?

  Um, illusion of control. This is our, we, we think we have more ability to control things than we actually do. That's gonna make you do some dumb shit.

• 1:24:03Jocko Willink?

  Uh, negativity bias and optimism bias, these two are, you know, just what they sound, right? If you have a negative attitude, well, if you, you, you will lean in that direction. You might make bad decisions because of it. Um, so there you go. There's a bunch of biases, cognitive biases that you can, that, that pay into us making bad decisions. And look, there's a bunch of these, the last one I will say to cover today. And this is one that I think, Echo Charles, this has had the biggest impact on your life since you and I started hanging out and discussing all these topics. And that is short-term thinking versus long-term thinking. Strategic thinking versus tactical thinking.

• 1:24:48Jocko Willink?

  Anytime you consider what the long-term outcome is going to be, you will make a smarter decision than if you just focus on what I'm gonna feel like or how I'm gonna be gratified in the next seven minutes.

• 1:25:01Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:04Jocko Willink?

  That will lead you to doing dumb shit. So, think strategic. Think about the long-term with all decisions that you make and you will do a better job making better decisions.

• 1:25:21Jocko Willink?

  There you go. These are, this is my list, uh, some examples of some of the many, many things that there are that drive us to make bad decisions, that drive us to do dumb shit. And I also think you need to think about this, what kind of person are you? You have to know what kind of person you are. You have to know what kind of person you are. You have to know what tendencies you have. Because you have tendencies. I have tendencies. And if you start applying these various subjects, these various examples, these various factors that can make you make bad decisions, you're gonna know that there's some of these things you're more susceptible to. You're, maybe you're more susceptible to your animalistic behavior. Maybe you're more susceptible to your ego getting out of control.

• 1:26:05Jocko Willink?

  Maybe you're more susceptible to some of these cognitive biases that we're talking about. But knowing who you are, so that you can watch out and you can lean in the other direction to make sure you make better decision is also an important part of making good decisions. So know what kind of person you are and don't let, don't let your tendencies get the best of you. So, the way that you can kind of make that happen is by detaching. And one of the easiest ways to detach is to take a step back and write things down. I'm just saying, when you write things down, you are detached from them. You can see other perspectives.

• 1:26:45Jocko Willink?

  Ask yourself, what would, if I was, if I was someone else right now and I was looking at me and I was about to do this thing, what would I tell myself? "No, I can afford this vehicle. It's a car I've always wanted. It's my dream car." "Well, your payments are gonna be seventeen hundred bucks a month." "Well, I know, but this is gonna be, it's gonna make me really feel good about myself and also clients are gonna see me in this car and they'll know that I'm a player." Like, "Yeah, but you only make four grand a month." "I know, but that's gonna grow." He's like, what would you be telling yourself? If you were talking to you, you'd probably be saying, "Hey, man, let's go, let's go look at the Chevys."

• 1:27:27Jocko Willink?

  And write down also, write down what the long-term outcome is gonna be. Versus what the short-term gratification you're gonna get. And that will help you to do the right things and to make good decisions.

• 1:27:45Jocko Willink?

  Very powerful. Seems small.

• 1:27:48Echo Charles?

  Yeah, it seems almost too simple, right? Oh, that's the solution to improve my life. Probably like seventy-five to eighty-five percent.

• 1:27:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a big number.

• 1:27:57Echo Charles?

  In any given.

• 1:27:58Jocko Willink?

  Any given endeavor. But most of all, in the big game, in the big game, in the life game, if you cannot do dumb shit, you'll be way better off.

• 1:28:08Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:08Jocko Willink?

  Seems so easy.

• 1:28:10Echo Charles?

  How about this? I would even say this. This is how powerful every one of these is. If you just took, I don't know, let's say the first one and the last one, we'll say. First one, alcohol. So Kerry, Kerry K-Dog, you know, we all know him, love him. He, the way he, because he doesn't drink, he quit drinking. So he, he put it in a way where I was like, hmm, that's a really impactful way to put it. Even though it's, we knew the idea, but he put it, this is what he said. He said, well, you know, after a while, like, you know, you, you get in trouble when, he's talking about himself. He's like, you get, I get in trouble when I drink. And I get myself in trouble when I drink versus, oh, I don't drink and every single aspect of my life just gets better and better and better and doesn't stop.

• 1:28:52Echo Charles?

  It's, it's a more logical decision not to drink. Cause I think I was asking him, I was like, that's cool. You don't drink. So I was like, what? You don't drink at all, at all? I was like, why are you like, you think you'll just relapse and go make, cause trouble? He was like, no, it's not necessarily that. And then he said, that's what he said. Where it's like, my life gets better. Keeps getting better and better and better and better and does not stop. That's what he said.

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  Little decisions.

• 1:29:14Echo Charles?

  It's true.

• 1:29:15Jocko Willink?

  Stack them up.

• 1:29:16Echo Charles?

  So you stacked that on to what the last one was, um, the short game versus long game? Like, think about that, where it's like, that's on your radar with every kind of move you're making in throughout your day. Oh, man. No drinking, clear. Oh, man. You'd be doing some good stuff.

• 1:29:30Jocko Willink?

  No drinking, thinking long-term.

• 1:29:33Jocko Willink?

  It's gonna move you in the right direction. Awesome. Uh, hopefully this helps people out. And with that, we gotta make a decision on what we're putting in our bodies, right? Fuel wise. I had a mok right when we got done training today.

• 1:29:46Echo Charles?

  Yes, me too.

• 1:29:47Jocko Willink?

  So good.

• 1:29:48Echo Charles?

  Very nice.

• 1:29:49Jocko Willink?

  Earned.

• 1:29:49Echo Charles?

  Bro, I'm telling you that he earned.

• 1:29:51Jocko Willink?

  Did you, did you do all rounds today? Did you take any?

• 1:29:54Echo Charles?

  No, I took one round off and then towards the end, you know, when everyone was kind of done. There was, today, there was no really like, hey, we're all done. That's what I felt.

• 1:30:03Jocko Willink?

  It kind of faded.

• 1:30:04Echo Charles?

  So I took one round on, off, aside from, you know, Sloan and them, I kept going a couple of times.

• 1:30:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:10Echo Charles?

  But yeah, I took one round off.

• 1:30:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, um, it's a good time.

• 1:30:14Echo Charles?

  I felt that I earned my mok. The, the, the idea of no easy rounds.

• 1:30:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:20Echo Charles?

  You think like, oh yeah, sure, we're there, did jiu jitsu, you at rest between rounds or whatever. So it's like, to say it doesn't sound as impactful as it actually feels. Cause when you have like, let's face it, you're rolling in the mixed class or whatever. And this is not good, bad, this is the nature of rolling.

• 1:30:36Jocko Willink?

  And it's actually good, what you're about to say.

• 1:30:38Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:38Jocko Willink?

  Like, that's a good type of trainer.

• 1:30:40Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:40Jocko Willink?

  In the class, you roll, you beat this guy up, you get a little bit swept, you got someone that's even. You're getting a bunch of different looks.

• 1:30:47Echo Charles?

  Yep, a bunch of different looks and varying levels of output. But it's like, if you even want to do jiu jitsu in the environment like this, where everybody's black belt in, in kind of better black belts, your output has to be kind of at the top the whole time. Otherwise, you're kind of not even doing jiu jitsu, you're just being a dummy. Like a, a jiu jitsu dummy for the guy, yeah. Cause everyone's so good. So you go through Harvard, you usually do like 10 rounds, right?

• 1:31:15Jocko Willink?

  I did 10 rounds.

• 1:31:16Echo Charles?

  Usually, yeah, so let's say you do, even you do the eight or nine rounds of that. Bro, it's like, it's way different than doing 10 rounds in the mixed class.

• 1:31:24Jocko Willink?

  You need fuel.

• 1:31:25Echo Charles?

  You need that fuel, bro. You're gonna earn your mok.

• 1:31:27Jocko Willink?

  Did you have a go on your way there?

• 1:31:28Echo Charles?

  I had a go on the way there.

• 1:31:29Jocko Willink?

  I'll tell you what, I was, I didn't want to train. Like, if it wasn't for the commitment.

• 1:31:35Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:35Jocko Willink?

  Cause I'm not, you know, obviously I'm showing up.

• 1:31:38Echo Charles?

  Plus, plus you kind of pressured me into it.

• 1:31:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, plus I pressured you to go. But, uh, I, man, I had that, had that go on the way. You know, just walked out of my house, grabbed a go, drank it on the way down here, finished it in the locker room. And by the time like I got out on the mat, I was warm, I was like, yep, I can feel it.

• 1:31:52Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Jocko Willink?

  I'm ready to go.

• 1:31:54Echo Charles?

  What?

• 1:31:54Jocko Willink?

  Attitude change.

• 1:31:55Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Jocko Willink?

  My attitude changed.

• 1:31:57Echo Charles?

  Last time, when I came and trained with you guys in this, um, sesh. I didn't really feel like training, but this time I did. I did feel like training cuz like I said, I got reminded of it. It was on the radar. I had, I wasn't rushing doing other stuff. I was like, bro, I'm completely ready.

• 1:32:12Jocko Willink?

  You need, you need time like mentally to prepare.

• 1:32:15Echo Charles?

  Yeah, and I feel like, you know, actually, no. Here's when I need mental time to prepare, when it's just me and you.

• 1:32:24Jocko Willink?

  That's true.

• 1:32:25Echo Charles?

  It's true, man. But like this guy, I don't, you know, cuz like, you, I always feel like I have like something to prove cuz like if you like really beat me up, I don't feel good. Like I feel like, oh, you're just gonna like hold it over me. And then if I do good, I'm kinda like, I don't have to say nothing, but I can be like, yeah, what up? Or whatever kind of a thing. I feel like there's a little bit more at stake or writing, we'll say. But this guy, I don't feel that for whatever reason. I feel like it's like, say, everyone's so cool too. So my mind was kinda, put it this way, I want my thoughts and my, what I was doing throughout the day weren't, they weren't interrupted by, okay, now I gotta go train, you know? And I'm like, frick, I was just thinking, I'm still thinking about this a little bit. Now I gotta go train or whatever with these hard guys. I'm like, frick, my mind wasn't even there.

• 1:33:06Echo Charles?

  But today, today I had time. Today my mind was there. Nonetheless, a lot of output. And yes, I had to go on the way down. All good.

• 1:33:15Jocko Willink?

  It's a go, do it, then milk.

• 1:33:18Echo Charles?

  Then milk right after.

• 1:33:19Jocko Willink?

  That's a good procedure for life.

• 1:33:20Echo Charles?

  You gotta, you gotta try the super cold milk, bro. I'm telling you.

• 1:33:23Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:33:24Echo Charles?

  You'd be happy.

• 1:33:25Jocko Willink?

  Well, my wife makes this banana milk in the morning with the banana milk.

• 1:33:28Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:29Jocko Willink?

  Uh, the powder. Man, she does a good job with that. Now she makes me like a little extra, a little hitter. Cuz normally, I don't, I don't like to eat that much in the morning.

• 1:33:36Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:37Jocko Willink?

  And I'm talking this after, I'm talking this is like nine o'clock, you know?

• 1:33:40Echo Charles?

  Oh, after the workout.

• 1:33:41Jocko Willink?

  After the workout, you know, kind of, she'll kinda like bring a little milk to me. She's got hers in like a shaker.

• 1:33:47Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:47Jocko Willink?

  But there's a little glass.

• 1:33:49Echo Charles?

  Oh, yeah, you're sophisticated.

• 1:33:51Jocko Willink?

  Good, bro. Tastes so good. Uh, so yeah, get yourself some go, get yourself some milk. And you can get the stuff at jocklefuel.com. That's, uh, where it's at, man. Jocklefuel.com. You can also get it at Vitamin Shoppe. You can get it at the Military Commissaries. I got a bunch of my friends hitting me up from Military Commissaries. They sent me pictures. We're just like, yo!

• 1:34:12Jocko Willink?

  Uh, Hanford, Dash Stores, HEB, Meyer, Wake Fern, ShopRite. Wawa, we're still in Wawa. Go grab some in Wawa. There's, there's hostilities, man. In these convenience stores, there's hostilities, FYI. There's big companies.

• 1:34:28Jocko Willink?

  And I mean, the biggest of companies, the biggest of beverage companies, they go in to these convenience stores and they buy those slots. They buy the shelf space. You know why they do that? Cause they're threatened. It's a threat. We are a threat. And we are like,

• 1:34:47Jocko Willink?

  we are like the rebels in the Star Wars, right? The empires are, look, the empires, if you're flying around, they don't really care. Once you threaten them, they gotta come, they gotta fight. And that's what they're doing. So go into these convenience stores, clear the shelves, let them know what's up. It's us against the empires. The empires, by the way, are trying to poison you. We all know this.

• 1:35:11Echo Charles?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:12Jocko Willink?

  They're doing evil things.

• 1:35:13Echo Charles?

  That's the crazy part about it. And you mentioned this on some, I don't know, one of your Instagram things where, you know, they'll call, you can call it like these industry standard, like kind of, you know, oh yeah, it's just general advertisement or whatever. And you called it brainwashing. And I'm like, oh, I'm being dramatic. But then I thought, I was like, wait a second, that's exactly what it is. And you know, they use all, actually some of this stuff where it's like, you know, framing bias, like all this, where, yeah, they'll just, they'll say the good like parts of it. There can be like three good parts of something. Short term, by the way, three, and then there's like 12 bad parts of it, short and long term, 12. They won't say any of the 12 and they'll do it. And then they're like, here you go. Here's your little product.

• 1:35:53Echo Charles?

  Drink as much of it as you want. In fact, let me put something in there to make you wanna drink as much of it as we want you to, right? Knowing it's bad for you, knowing if you drink, the more and more and more of this stuff you drink, the worse and worse and worse health you will have, literally. Not, that's not a metaphor. That's like literally the deal. So also I learned this thing and I don't, I don't want to speak too much into it, but I heard this thing, it's a girl on a podcast and she was like, America has, so here, bear with me, this is just what I heard. America has this thing called single dose toxicity or something like this where, and look into this, but, keep this in your, on your mind where America's a thing as far as regulations go, single dose toxicity, meaning like, if it's harmless in one dose, it's fine. It's admissible to be in your product.

• 1:36:39Echo Charles?

  But you take 10 doses, the toxicity goes 10 times. It's no longer a single dose technically, but that's not the rule. The rule isn't 10 doses. The rule is single dose toxicity. So you get a energy drink, single dose toxicity. You get a, you know, maybe you have some chips or maybe you drink a soda for your, for your thing, or maybe you're eating something that's not like all natural, whatever, which let's face it, you know, it's, it's hard to navigate that sometimes. Now you got your toxicity up five times, 10 times. And these guys are just pushing it on you. The more, the better. And then to the point, they're saying, oh, this Jocko go all natural, no toxicity, all this stuff. Oh my God, of course they're gonna buy that. Let's, let's, let's fight against that. Literally the bad guy.

• 1:37:21Jocko Willink?

  Rebels doing the good stuff. Uh, so there you go. Go get some, go get some Jocko fuel. Go get some originusa.com. Speaking of jujitsu, you should be training jujitsu. If you're not training jujitsu, you're just missing out. You're missing out. I've had hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of people say, I wish I would have started earlier. So go train jujitsu. You're gonna train jujitsu, originusa.com, get a gi, get a rash guard, all American made. By the way, it's all a hundred percent American made. We got jeans. You could do jujitsu in the jeans, by the way, if you wanted to. You can squat in the jeans. Like this is just the facts. So we make everything in America. We got the hunt line,

• 1:38:04Jocko Willink?

  the hunt line's out. I was, I was up in Montana. People were asking me about the hunt line. Yep, the hunt line's live, man. You can order your hunt gear. So go check that out. That's what we got going on at originusa.com.

• 1:38:17Echo Charles?

  Also represented on this path, Jocko store. Go to jacostore.com. That's where you can get your good, good shirts. Shirts is good. I think I'm gonna make a few more other variations of that one. I want to like, someone's a good one to represent.

• 1:38:31Jocko Willink?

  I was at the, I was at the Expo West, which is the. Natural foods event and I went up there. We were showing people Jocko feels first of all, it's crazy. How many people know me and like, I didn't know you had supplements. I didn't know you had a drink. I didn't know you had ready to drink protein. Like people didn't know that. I mean, a lot of them did, but a lot of them didn't. A pretty big number, but a dude came up and just started saying the good video like word for word. And I was like, Jack, in the game. But what's crazy is he didn't know. He had, he said the whole video like memorized. We were laughing. He's like, I didn't know you had supplements. Like, yeah, we, we got him, man. I'm sorry. I'm doing a bad job putting out the word. But there you go.

• 1:39:11Echo Charles?

  All good. This path, all kinds of good stuff on here. Also, discipline equals freedom too. You want to represent that? Represent hardcore. We also have the shirt locker. So don't forget about that. If you're not on it, it's okay. It's cool. Just check it. Check it out as, as much as you want. I got a little, um, what do you call it? Like a, call it a sneak peek. Kind of see what you're dealing with in a general way. For forthcoming, uh, for the current, current month. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, uh, it's not a surprise, but it's not a full reveal. But anyway, subscription scenario, get a new shirt every month. It's a cool one. You're still representing on the path, just in a more, little bit more creative, more in the game kind of way. People like it. I'm telling you, I'm telling you. Anyway, jockostar.com.

• 1:39:49Jocko Willink?

  Subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the, the Jaco Underground. Go to Jaco Underground dot com. That's our, that's our own platform that we can't get kicked off of because we own it. So they can't kick us off. Jaco Underground dot com. Check out our YouTube page. Check out Origin USA YouTube page. Check out the Jaco Field YouTube page. We got people putting out content, info for you on those psychological warfare. Check out flipsidecanvas.com. Obviously, I've written a bunch of books. Final Spin Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual, the Code Evaluation, a bunch of books. Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, The Way the Warrior Kid Series, by the way, the best kids books ever written.

• 1:40:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, did I say that? Yes, I did. I've never read a kid's book that was better than The Way of the Warrior Kid book series. Have you, Echo? No. And if anyone has a book that's better than The Way of the Warrior Kid series, please let me know and I will talk about it on here. I'll cover it on the podcast.

• 1:40:48Jocko Willink?

  If not, then get these books for every kid that you know and help them have a better life. Mikey and the Dragons, About Face by Hackworth, Extreme Ownership, Academy Leadership, Ashalom Front. We have a leadership consultancy. Go to ashalomfront.com if you want to help with your leadership inside your organization. We have a bunch of live events that we do as well. Don't forget, we have the online training academy for how to lead yourself in life. Extremeownership.com. I'm on there answering questions. We have a bunch of content that you can go through, a bunch of courses you can take. You can learn how to deal with problems with leadership. You can learn how to live better. Extremeownership.com. Go check that out. And also, if you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help Gold Star families,

• 1:41:31Jocko Willink?

  check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. And if you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to AmericasMightyWarriors.org. And don't forget about Micah Fink and what he's got going on with HeroesAndHorses.org. Current report from the field. Micah Fink has just sawed down a bunch of trees. He's built a raft and he is forging a river with a horse at this time. Chasing a bear. With a spear. Crazy. So, give it up for Micah Fink and what he's doing to help out our veterans. If you want to connect with us, Echo's at Echo Charles.

• 1:42:10Jocko Willink?

  I'm at Jocko Willink. Watch out for the algorithm. It's strong. It's there. It's a beast. It's got claws. It's got teeth. It'll put its teeth around your neck and kill you, the algorithm. So, watch out. Thanks to all of our military personnel around the world who are out there making the best decisions for us.

• 1:42:31Jocko Willink?

  To protect us and protect our way of life here. And also thanks to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, and all first responders. Thank you, you all, for making the right decisions to keep us safe here at home. And to everyone else out there, life is a series of decisions every day. Little decisions, big decisions, decision after decision. But all those decisions have consequences. They can have good consequences. They can have bad consequences, but they have consequences.

• 1:43:12Jocko Willink?

  They put you on the path in life. So make good decisions and don't do dumb shit. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko, out.