The Bleakest NBA Team Situations (Next 5 Years) With Ryen Russillo

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to react to the latest NBA free agency news (1:50). Then, they break down the teams with the worst roster situations in the East and the West (18:40). Finally, they discuss LeBron’s situation with the Lakers, Deandre Ayton, and more (01:15:06). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Play for an ULTRA today, available on Doordash! ENJOY RESPONSIBLY ©️ 2025 ANHEUSER-BUSCH, MICHELOB ULTRA®️ LIGHT BEER, ST. LOUIS, MO. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV.

• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by The Ringer Podcast Network, where we do the rewatchables every week and we are doing Jaws 2 on Monday night. We're gonna get pretty weird in the month of July. We gotta do a Michael Madsen movie. Our guy, Michael Madsen, passed away. So we'll figure that one out. There's a couple of good candidates. So we're gonna do Jaws 2 this Monday. You can find that on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can find his video podcast on Spotify. And then something Madseny a week later. I have an idea of what I want to do, but I don't want to spoil it yet. But I really loved, really loved Madsen. Madsen and Sizmore, the big two.

• 1:29Bill Simmons?

  The Bird and Magic of the 90s for weird action movie performances. So here's the schedule for me. I am gonna be going Sundays for the rest of July unless anything crazy happens. So every Sunday night range, podcasts, rewatchables will be on Mondays. And that's probably gonna be it for me in July, unless my dogs... I don't know if you can hear them barking right now. But unless something crazy happens, like a Jaylen Brown trade, a LeBron trade, any, any sort of crazy newsworthy event. So, so adjust your schedules accordingly. Coming up on this podcast, we're gonna talk to Ryan Marzullo.

• 2:12Bill Simmons?

  And we're gonna do it right after this break and right after Pearl Jam.

• 2:42Bill Simmons?

  All right. Late afternoon, Sunday, July 4th weekend. Russillo is here. Basketball. Basically, this is it. We're going away from the NBA. We got summer league. I don't really care. Do you?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I just seeing clips tonight as I was prepping this out. I'm like, I can't, I can't do this right now.

• 3:02Bill Simmons?

  Somebody sent me a text last night about how edge comb looks so much better than Bailey. And I was like, I need a break. I need a break. I'm not ready for any of this. I do think the summer league, I'm sure I'll watch some of the clips and stuff. I'm not going to go, but I just, I need a break. That, that 17 day finals followed by the draft right after that. All the fridge. So I'm like, all right, need to, I need to reset. Guys start thinking about NFL. Did you start your prep yet?

• 3:29Speaker 01

  For NFL?

• 3:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I need, I need a full, like, I was going to go to summer league and then I realized I'm like, I'm not going to go to summer league.

• 3:40Bill Simmons?

  110 degrees.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  It was this unbelievable epiphany because the problem is it's too busy. It's too popular now and it's a great setup for families. It's great for kids. It's unbelievable. If you're a basketball junkie, the cost is great, but now the smaller gym, it's like really hard to find a spot. And even if you have the media pass, it can be a pain if you're jumping back and forth. And, you know, I think a lot of us that have been doing it for a bunch of years, there's different people with teams that you want to say hi to, but I don't blame them for never wanting to talk to us. So they're all roped off now and it's been happening at the combine. So now, now you end up kind of like sitting by yourself, just watching basketball the whole time. And you're not like, somebody might wave to you and then a kid in a security jacket. It's like, what are you doing?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  So I went, I went to Vegas too many times over the stretch of like F1, Super Bowl, everything that we were doing. So I just realized the other day, I was like, hey, you don't have to go. I was like, perfect.

• 4:34Bill Simmons?

  Summer league outgrew itself. Now we sound like the two old media guys complaining about traveling somewhere for a fun sporting event, but I'm with you. I don't want any part of it. And also it is really hot. Like that Vegas hot that it hits in July when you leave the stadium and it's like 113, it's three in the afternoon. You're just like, why am I here? What is this place? But Cooper flag will be fun. I would, I'm sure Trey Johnson will have one heat check if he's there. So some stuff happened since the last time we, we talked. The biggest, the biggest thing is Whitmore Island. Now House is involved because he went to Washington.

• 5:15Bill Simmons?

  There were a couple of guys that, you know, there's so many movement back and forth now with its contracts are shorter and just guys, it's almost impossible to get, like all of a sudden Jay Huff's on Indiana. I'm like, oh, I kind of like that. Whitmore and the Wizards, but Whitmore was one I was watching because I, I'm still all in on that dude. And I think in the right team, in the right situation, that guy is instant offense off the bench. I don't know if Washington's the right team or not, but I do like some of the assets they're collecting. We're going to talk about them in a second with a gimmick, but that was one of my favorites. Did you have a favorite? Oh, I'm so glad that guy's on that team. Do you have any of those, like the lower level ones?

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I even, I even posted on threads about Jay Huff. I mean, that's where, that's where you know, I'm really like locked in. Yeah. Like it. I saw him, I went to go see McClung play for the South Bay Lakers. So.

• 6:09Bill Simmons?

  It's a fun Thursday night.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Right. But I noticed a lot of Jay Huff. And then when Jay Huff was with Memphis, I'm like, you know, this guy might be the prototype of that stretch five. Everybody's looking at, maybe not the rim protection on the other side. But yeah, when I saw that Pacers, what they gave up, I'm like, great. Love the Jay Huff acquisition. Pacers, are they back?

• 6:28Bill Simmons?

  Another one. Pacers. Yeah. They could, they might be able to patch together some Miles Turner stats. The Hallburn thing is going to be a little more insurmountable. There's a couple of decent guys left. I'm intrigued by Ryan Rollins, seeing where he ends up. We're at that level of free agency now where I'm like, I wonder who can snare Ryan Rollins.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Look, but we should say on the Cam Whitmore thing for a second because I, I agree with everything you said, but I don't know if he should be someone you're ever describing as being all in on a guy. Right? Cause I think we kind of know what the downside to him is too.

• 7:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Right?

• 7:03Bill Simmons?

  I mean, if you're talking out of nowhere, bench guy. That could do a little like what Matherin was doing in the, in the playoffs a couple of times. I think that's the upside for him. I, the Wizards, I like all the stuff they're doing. There's some teams that I really do not like, which we're going to talk about in a second, but from a big picture standpoint, OKC is the heavy favorites. And then there's a bunch of contenders after that. And the odds are really interesting. Do you know who has the second best odds on FanDuel to win the title right now?

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Houston.

• 7:37Bill Simmons?

  It's the New York Knicks. They are now plus 750. Yeah, Houston, Denver and Cleveland are all plus 850. They're three, four, five. And I think that's the consensus top five. Minnesota's 17 to one. I personally would have Minnesota in there as a top six. But I think because they lost Alexander Walker and maybe they made conference finals two years in a row, but I still feel like Minnesota should be in that convo. Am I crazy?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  No, this is the overreaction to the new stuff. Cause I've seen Houston, I think Houston was second best odds for a little while and then the Knicks.

• 8:16Bill Simmons?

  The Yabaselli, Yabaselli just swung it. And you get that guy as your seventh man.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  By the way, Philly, this time it's personal with Yabaselli. He was like, they offered me 2 million.

• 8:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was like, he was like, it's like they wanted me to leave. They were like driving me to the airport, trying to get rid of me. It was weird. I really like Yabaselli. I actually thought he would have been an interesting Laker signing.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  I think the Knicks have done a really good job in, like, it was, it was fun for them to be thinking, we just need to add like two or three guys that can actually play in a top eight rotation for a good team and not have it cost a lot. And this is something I was saying with Bobby Marks on Thursday's pod is that.

• 8:54Bill Simmons?

  Really good pod, by the way.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Thanks. It feels like, you're gonna love this. You're gonna love this. The old Belichick free agency period where he was like, go ahead, everybody. Spend all your money, spend all your cap space, do your guaranteed $60 million deals. We're just gonna hang out here in the back. Now, I think part of that success, we realized too, was that he was a great defensive coach and Brady fixed all of their offensive limitations. But he would shop in this bargain base because there'd always be all these guys left. And you'd be like, well, how was this guy 20 million guaranteed? And this guy's like a 2.7 million dollar guy for like one year with incentives. I am wondering if if you're like a pretty good team and granted you're up against it cap wise if the advantage now with everything we're seeing with the first and second aprons is

• 9:38Speaker 01

  just like, hey, we can pick off like if you're getting a top eight minutes guy on a good team for free.

• 9:45Bill Simmons?

  Right?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  And I mean free in the sense of like what free is for an NBA investment, you know, one year, less than 10 million. I wonder if that's something I'm wondering if that market is going to be where teams feel like, hey, we can just wait around and grab somebody instead of grabbing our first or second choice.

• 10:01Bill Simmons?

  There were some stunning salaries like I thought I thought Gary Trent with some of the stuff he did in the playoffs had at least earned his way into maybe like a two years, 15, two years, 16. The Bucks like kind of stole him and brought him back, you know? Well, I'll save it. I have a whole Bucks thing I want to do, but they, they have been able to patch together some salaries combined with the fact that they got Turner, maybe for a little less than I think everybody thought he would go for in free agency. And I think they have two moves left to your point that it's like this bargain shopping. Maybe you can grab a guy here or there. The one side I don't understand because I agree with what you said is when teams are paying like 15 million a year for Schroder, you know,

• 10:44Bill Simmons?

  or even like Duncan, one year, 16, and then the second year you have an option, you have to buy it out. But um, I, that was what I, to me, you don't have to pay double figures for guys that aren't impact starters anymore. The market seems to be somewhere between five and 10, or you could trade for a Hauser contract. That's what made the Nets that Terrence Mann signing so strange or trade. It was like, oh, cool. We get Terrence Mann for 46 million for the next three years like there. That's just not what the market would be for him if he was in the market. You've seen it with somebody like Kaminga too, where teams don't even know. I mean, I don't know if that'll be resolved by the time people hear this, but the Kaminga thing's crazy. That's somebody that over the years would have been at least three for 70. Somebody

• 11:29Bill Simmons?

  would have taken a fire and I had no idea what he's going to get.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  That seems a little high, but yeah, you'd think somebody would at least just send out some kind of offer sheet. But if Brooklyn, I mean, it was just such a weird summer too, because it was like, what's Brooklyn gonna do? What's Brooklyn gonna do? And it's like, well, you know what they're not gonna do? Spend it on a player they want. They're gonna take an asset in the man contract, the Porter Jr. Deal. You know, I know it's an unprotected and 32 for that. But, you know, I was thinking about this. I'm like, wouldn't you have had to give up a pick just to get off of Porter Jr. At like 80 million the next two years?

• 12:03Bill Simmons?

  This is gonna be one of the things I brought up to you today. What if they had offered? No, what if they had offered Brooklyn? Here's Michael Porter. We'll give you our 2032 first. Just absorb him into the cap space. Like, do the Nets do that?

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Well, clearly, they would have done it because they gave him Cam Johnson.

• 12:24Bill Simmons?

  But that's the thing. It's like, did they have to even put Cam Johnson in the trade?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I, I thought it was-

• 12:30Bill Simmons?

  I just think that trade, the more I thought about it over the last five days, I'm like, that's one of the worst trades of the decade.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  I'm so glad you said it.

• 12:38Bill Simmons?

  You have to attach a pick to get rid of Porter. And I also didn't get anything for Cam Johnson? Nothing?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz that's, see, I'm glad, I'm glad we hadn't talked about this at all. Because when it happened, it was like, just, oh, yeah, this makes sense. And it's Cam Johnson. And he, and then at first of all, like, I love Cam Johnson way more than I like Porter Jr. Yeah. For a bunch of reasons. Then he cost half as much. And so you're like, what's the Cam Johnson trade? If you're trying to acquire a good player, like, isn't there a piece? And then this is classic, like, salary cap dumping for the asset, which is what Brooklyn's whole approach was. And I, I just felt like there should have been a second asset with this, because they were giving up a player other teams would have liked while also taking on Porter Jr. Who had the worst contract. So maybe their point

• 13:27Speaker 01

  is that with Porter Jr., they'll be able to flip him in a year at 40 million and then get an asset on the way back. I, that's the only thing I could, I could fathom them saying-

• 13:36Bill Simmons?

  It's bad.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  With, with the explanation of it all.

• 13:39Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was a miracle trade for the Nuggets when it happened. And the more I thought about it over the last four days, I was thinking like, think about over the years, teams adding pick, going back to the Kurt Thomas days, teams adding picks to dump a contract to try to reset their salary structure in some way. Porter, I didn't think was tradable unless you took like a Bradley Beal or, you know, 78 million for two years. He's a bad back. He's a fucked up shoulder. I just think he's a 15 to 20 million dollar player. I mean, he was good in the 2023 finals. It's not like he hasn't had good moments, but for them, he was a complete impediment to making their roster better because they couldn't touch Murray, they couldn't touch Brown, couldn't touch Jokic.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Gordon.

• 14:24Bill Simmons?

  And they couldn't touch Gordon. So what, how else were they going to improve their roster?

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 14:30Bill Simmons?

  Here comes, here comes Brooklyn. They're like, what if we just, we just need one pick and we'll save 17. It's fucking crazy. I think they could have taken Porter's thing, gotten a pick and traded Cam Johnson and ended up with way more. And I, I continue to think they did an awful job, like really bad. I didn't like their draft. I don't like really any of that. I don't think they have like an awesome kick ass asset. Their best asset is basically their own pick in 2026, which they traded to get back. But I just don't understand anything they did. They had all that cap space. I said this to Rob Mahoney on Wednesday. They were the guy in the fantasy draft that had a hundred dollars to spend with 10 and, and everybody else ran out of money. They were in the driver's

• 15:15Bill Simmons?

  seat in all these different ways. I just don't think they exploited it correctly. I don't like what they did.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Well, it must've been that there just weren't that many teams that were going to give up an asset to also park stuff to get off of cap space. But for Denver, it's just perfect for Denver on top of the other things they get to do and bringing it like full circle to the odds. Like Denver should be, Denver should be more of a favorite for an NBA title than Houston should be.

• 15:39Bill Simmons?

  I said that on Wednesday. That's the team. No, I just said on Wednesday, they were nine to one on Wednesday. I'm like, that's the best bet. I think they should have the second best odds. I think it'll be five to one by the time we start the season. It looks like Mark Stein was reporting that they convinced Valanciunas to stay for a year, right? It seems like they have one more move that they can make. They're under the apron, so they have flexibility during the season and they just have a better team. Cam Johnson's gonna be better for them than Michael Porter was. He's gonna be, I just think a better health bet for nine months.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  He's just a better foxhole guy, I think, too. You know, that's, that's my biggest thing with Porter Jr. Like, it is impressive, man. When he's 6'10", he's pulling up and he's hitting these shots off the dribble and you're like, this is ridiculous. But then there's just the nights where you're like, oh, I guess this guy's just totally out of it tonight. And, you know, for somebody who's been in the league as long as he's been in the league. And it is also interesting, too, like, when we were going through, and I know you probably spent a good chunk of your Sunday doing what I was doing in preparation for this, but looking at all the extensions, looking at all the contracts, and like, the best thing you can be is in that Patrick Williams stretch of like, we're still not sure, but man, we'd hate to be wrong, so here's your 90 million. And, and Porter Jr. kills it because it's

• 16:53Speaker 01

  like, hey, you've been hurt, but God, you're so talented and you're so tall and you're such a good shooter and we don't really have other moves and we're also kind of cheap sometimes, but like, that window of like, like, look, the best thing is to be awesome and then get the max extension, right? Like a Cam Cunningham or something like that, even though, okay, you know, it took a little bit longer, maybe. And that's just another reminder, we should maybe look at these point guards coming up through the draft and realize, you know, it might take these guys a little bit longer than being the finished, like, asset that you'd want. But when you're like that top pick and you don't know, those are the contracts where now you're looking at it going, ah, I can't, like, you said, Kaminga,

• 17:34Speaker 01

  70, like, Kaminga might be not even like a full mid-level guy. Because there's also, it's pretty clear, too. I think there's enough teams that look at what Kerr does and what Golden State does, and I'm sure Kaminga, it's driven him crazy and his reps crazy there, but I don't think Golden State's like hiding this amazing steady player from the rest of the league either with the way that they've yo-yoed him and out of the lineup.

• 17:57Bill Simmons?

  He's probably a good stats, bad team guy ultimately, and there's a lot of guys like that. Um, yeah. Giddy's, Giddy's the weirdest one to me because...

• 18:07Bill Simmons?

  I still really like him and he's young and he's had some success and I think he's competitive. And I think for the most part, he's a winning player and his shot might get better as he gets older.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  It was really good in the second half.

• 18:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  It's at least something to build on, something to be happy about. I don't know if it's real.

• 18:24Bill Simmons?

  And they can just play chicken with him now because it's not like there's anybody else coming flying in to get him. All right, we have a, we have a gimmick we're gonna do. We're gonna take a break and then, uh, we have a pretty expansive roster situation gimmick to do here. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking up at a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you've earned it. Like in a little friendly competition, it's always better when there's something worth playing for. Michelob Ultra, superior light beer. It's a pretty great prize. Um, trying to think stuff I would play for this summer. Golf? I'd have the, I need to have a big handicap for golf.

• 19:06Bill Simmons?

  It's really tennis and maybe basketball three-point shooting contests and, uh, I don't know. What's that Block Blast game? You play on your iPad? I'd do that. I'd compete against other people on that one. It's like Tetris for the 2020s. Uh, play for Ultra, fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this summer at doordash.com. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch. Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. All right, Russillo, here was the assignment. Next five years. Worst roster situations for each conference. So we're gonna pick a top four and we're gonna go through it and try to explain it. We talked about this maybe a month ago when we argued about who does Indiana now have

• 19:51Bill Simmons?

  the best roster situation in the East? And we went back and forth. You settled on Cleveland. I was like, I think I like Indiana. I like the flexibility, they have Halliburton and that. And now you think about that a month later, it's like, oh no. Indiana definitely not in the top five now. I think Cleveland you'd probably pick. But going the other way with the worst, it's a good time to talk about it because we just had free agency. I think we have less teams than usual who probably aren't happy with where they are just in the league and we have too much talent. So it's an interesting time to kind of parachute in. And figure out in the East first, then we'll do the West. What roster, situation, picks, contracts, assets, everything?

• 20:35Bill Simmons?

  Who would you not want to be for the rest of the 2020s? If you could pick one team? I have mine, what's yours?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Uh, man, just, just give me 20 seconds on it because there's like, sometimes it's, hey, who's the best player on these four bad teams? Because that's kind of the most important thing, right?

• 20:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, let's talk about that part. So what, what do you care about? So if you have a great player, does that excuse some of the other stuff that would make you nervous? Like the Milwaukee situation?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Right. Do you have like one player? Because we could do the same thing in the West and I'm going to ahead of ourselves. Cause like, it's like, is it all flexibility? Is it all cap space? Is it all draft assets? So I got to tell you, like, if you're telling me the next, the next four years, five years, I don't want to be Toronto. Uh, I don't want to be Toronto because even though Scotty Barnes is better than some of the other team's best players. It's 38 and a half million for him. It's 38 million for Brandon Ingram. It's 32 and a half million for quickly. It's 28 million for RJ Barrett, Pirtle, who's fine. You know, 20 million, that's going to go up with the extension.

• 21:41Bill Simmons?

  They just extended him for another three. They have five for, he's basically five for 114.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Now you want to argue last year Ingram didn't play, RJ didn't crack 60 games, Pearl didn't crack 60 games, quickly played 33, Scotty Barnes only played 65. I think there's some Scotty Barnes numbers that are going in the wrong direction in an alarming way. But I'm not ready to just write him off as like somebody who's going to now like his best year ever was his second year. And now it's all downhill. So that doesn't seem entirely fair. So even though I like Barnes better, there's, there's no moves here really for Toronto. And all of these players other than RJ are under contract for the next three years.

• 22:19Bill Simmons?

  I had them third on my list. I don't like their, their top five guys. I don't like any of their contracts for the top five. And they did that. So they did that Ingram move where that before the trade deadline, they traded some of the stuff they got for the Siakam trade for him. And then they gave him this extension of three years, 120, so 40 a year. And then we get to the summer and like Nasri is going for 25, Myles Turner is going for 24, like it's, and now it just feels like they shot their gun in a major way on that one. And what does Brandon Ingram get in July? If they hadn't done that extension?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  They must've been freaked that Ingram was the only like, big time scoring wing, but you know, Ingram's another one of those guys. He'll get you the 20, but I, I just don't know. Like, are you going to give me 20 in a big spot? You're going to give me 28 in a big spot? If I need you to be the number one scoring option, because there's some times in some big games where I feel like the guy gets pushed around. So I'm thinking Toronto went, there's no good free agents. And what if Brooklyn goes, but that's where you kind of have to go, hey, Brooklyn, Brooklyn wants to give him another 40 million a year when he's hurt. Right. Then, then maybe we have to take that risk. You know, I don't know if that's why Masai is not there anymore. If they eventually were like, okay, we're paying you 15 million a year to run this team.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  And now you're spending, they're doing a lot of A level spending on like B minus guys.

• 23:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think, did Mahoney say this? Somebody said this on my pod that they were a top 12 just for salaries in the league, but you wouldn't say they had a top 12 roster. It's kind of not where you want to be. I, I thought the Ingram thing was an overpay. I wouldn't want to pay Barrett 29 million a year. Quickly is 32 and a half years or 32 and a half million each year for the next four. Where in a league where like Clarkson's getting bought out and you're just you're Colin Sexton gets traded for Nurkic, you have to attach a pick. He's making 19 million. So you think of that and it's like, that contract's awful. I, I was on the record. I didn't like the Barnes Max extension. I understand why they had to do it.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  But he's gonna get it. Like, I don't think you can give more time for the Barnes one.

• 24:35Bill Simmons?

  I get it. I just, that does make me feel good.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Right. But as we were talking about, like, the best thing is, is almost that rookie extension, that first rookie extension, because you're like worried you might be wrong. Like, the Knicks didn't want to do this quickly number.

• 24:49Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  And then they get OG out. Now, I don't know if there's a ton of teams that wanted to pay OG 200 million either, because they are afraid of his injury history on top of everything else. So, you know, maybe there's an argument here where it's like, hey, you and Bill are completely wrong, because this is more stable. You know who your five guys are. They didn't even play that many games last year together, for whatever reason.

• 25:09Bill Simmons?

  Those five guys together? Barnes, Ingram, Quickly, Baird and Pertle?

• 25:14Speaker 01

  I, I would say I'd rather, the reason I picked them is I'd rather have worse talent and have more options the next two years.

• 25:20Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Because I don't have any options with this. Unless Barnes turns into a superstar.

• 25:25Bill Simmons?

  I like Grady Dick. I think he, he's a rotation guy. Murray, Murray Boils. Can't speak. Murray Boyle. Murray Bowles. Walter, some people like. Agbaji had some moments.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Agbaji's expensive, too.

• 25:43Bill Simmons?

  But he had some moments. They have all their firsts. I had them third. My number one was Chicago. I stared at it. They still have this giddy RFA.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  This is your least favorite one.

• 25:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, here's why.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Okay. Let's do it.

• 25:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't love a single guy on their roster. Maybe Budzelis. Like, at gunpoint, I like Budzelis. I don't, is he gonna make it an NBA team? I don't know. They have 85 million dollars in expirings this season, right? So you think like, oh, look out for the Bulls, summer of 2026. They've just never been that team. We've never seen it. They've paid the luxury tax in forever. They have all their firsts. I didn't, yeah, it's a small market, big market team. I didn't like their first round pick this year. I don't know why they didn't make the Derek Queen trade.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  The Red Sox are like, what's, what's the issue?

• 26:33Bill Simmons?

  The Red Sox were like, I like what the Bulls are doing. I thought they should have made the Derek Queen trade. Move back 11 spots. Get, get New Orleans' first round pick, but uh,

• 26:43Speaker 01

  again, it all depends on which version of the Derek Queen trade you were offered is I think what the lesson is.

• 26:48Bill Simmons?

  We'll never, we'll never know the answer.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Is like, yeah, we would have done that if we had known it was unprotected, but we'll see, we'll see. It'll be written in the books.

• 26:57Bill Simmons?

  Kobe White's about to be a free agent. That scares me. Like what, what is his next contract? Uh, that Patrick Williams and a core of six, four for 72 for Williams, two for 22 for a core. They have some expiries, but I just don't know what this team is. Like what's, where am I going the next three years? I know I'm not going to be like a bottom five team next year. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the lottery, but um, it's just, it just seems bleak to me. Who am I selling to my fans? If I'm a Bulls fan, what am I excited about? My owners have already made it very clear to me. We're never going to really spend money. Um, I don't think free agents are going to be like, man, I'd love to go

• 27:38Bill Simmons?

  to Chicago. They've done a shitty job with the Jordan legacy where you never hear a player be like, I want to go to Chicago and reinvigorate the Bulls. That team really meant something. I just don't really know what this team is other than a team that's going to go 40 and 42 every year. So that's my number one pick.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, this play in stretch where they just lose to Miami every year. Like, yeah, you go through it and you're like, this is, this is kind of the same thing over and over again. Uh, I think the Giddy trade will turn out to be a good trade for them. You know, at the time they get killed, they don't get a draft pick, especially it's OKC, you know, it works for OKC perfectly. Yeah.

• 28:16Bill Simmons?

  We defended him. I think we were in the minority.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Right. But Giddy was also like not super popular at the time either. So it wasn't like there was going to be a bunch of people sticking up for him. But yeah, the rest of the roster, I think at least the Bazellus piece, that's kind of what I would look for in this too. It's like, there's, there's some unknown that's exciting. Like I would give you points for that. And at least Bazellus is in that and um, Asengay, if you like what you saw from him in the Bundesliga.

• 28:46Bill Simmons?

  Fran Fraschella just going in on him. I really enjoyed. Did you see that?

• 28:52Bill Simmons?

  Every once in a while, France just goes nuts on the foreign, on the foreign players. He's like, here's a guy who quit on his team, played four minutes.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  I did think that was pretty shocking, man, that he would just bail. And then you would heard, all of us had heard about it for like a week. I'm sure you heard about it too. And then no one had said anything and everybody was like, is he really going to do this? Is he really going to go to the draft while his team is playing for championship? Well, it's like, the reason he's coming to the draft is because clearly the team has told him, whichever team it is in the lottery, like we're taking you and it doesn't matter. They, they didn't care that he wasn't going to play.

• 29:30Bill Simmons?

  If you were a GM, would you make promises?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think it's part of it. I know you probably think you wouldn't, but would you do promises with, with caveats?

• 29:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, what do you do if you make a promise to him at 12? And then Troy Weaver calls you and says, yo,

• 29:49Bill Simmons?

  we really want to move up. We'll give you 23 in our unprotected pick next year for number 12. And you're like, fuck, I made this promise to this French guy. I can't.

• 30:01Bill Simmons?

  I just wouldn't, that's, I think that's the whole reason you don't do promises. Because you never know and Troy Weaver is calling you with some fucking asinine trade that you have to accept.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's where you could say, hey, you have a promise unless, you know, something comes down the pike. But then I think most GMs would tell you, how many clients does the guy have?

• 30:23Bill Simmons?

  Right. But what's, but what's the upside of the promise? That if you're worried that he's going to keep working out and then he'll move into the top 10, you won't be able to get him? Like you have to think the guy is incredible at that point. They, they'd have to think he's like a potential all NBA guy and just lock in on somebody that far away from the job. I just wouldn't do it. I don't get the upside.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  I've heard about teams going back to the agent going, hey, something changed. Can we get out of the promise? And then the teams won't do it if the agent's gonna lose, lose a shit about it. I'm sure other stuff has happened. Uh, I'm, I'm sure there's millions of stories I haven't heard, but when, um, like it was funny, there was a guy, there was a team that had a pick, but then their agents were saying that their guy was going there. So like, that was one of the rumors like two weeks before the draft. It's like, hey, this guy has a lock. He's promised here. That's what, that's what everybody's saying. And the pick got traded. So it was like, oh, Jesus. So either it was a conditional promise, kind of like what we're talking about here, or

• 31:26Speaker 01

  that guy was just full of shit the whole time and was trying to get people to maybe take the guy even higher than the slot. So it's all part of it.

• 31:35Bill Simmons?

  I have a little 45 second monologue for you about the Bulls.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Good.

• 31:42Bill Simmons?

  So I wrote in podcast about this in the early 2010s when the Warriors were for sale. I can't remember their owner. I think his name was like Chris Cohen. Was that his name? The guy who sold, and he sold to, uh, like a, and the price was high and people was like 360 and people were like, oh my God, that's a lot. And I, I went all in on, I think that's a great deal. I think this is one of the best markets in the league. I think their fans really give a shit. And this has been a misused, under-owned asset that if the right ownership group comes in, they could really turn this into a major thing. You were there in the, in Boston, the early 2000s with the Red Sox,

• 32:23Bill Simmons?

  when it was just like, it was this misused, terribly owned asset that everybody thought, like, if somebody can come in and do this correctly, there's this amazing fan base ready to pay any amount of money and everyone will go to the games. Everyone's going to the games anyway. Like if the right ownership group figures this out, holy shit. I think the Bulls are like that. I think this has been a criminally misused asset for, really since Jordan left, when instead of going for the seventh title, they said, oh no, we're going to rebuild. We're smarter than everybody. And from that moment on, all they did was cheap out and, um, and basically they're in the third biggest city.

• 33:06Bill Simmons?

  They're just cashing all this revenue that you get from being in Chicago. All these people, these generations of people that grew up on the Jordan's bowls or remember the great days and so they keep their tickets and just kind of wait for something good to happen and nothing good is going to happen with these owners. And I just feel like if I was like a kajillionaire, that would be the team I would try to buy. Cause if you can reignite that team and rebuild them and tap into the Jordan DNA and Pippen and the, you know, bring those guys back and give Jordan a ceremonial position and really like ignite it. I think that would be a really special franchise and right now it's not. I think it's the worst situation in the East. End of monologue.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Agree with all of it. I do wonder what Jordan relationship would be because if he wanted to like hang out in the draft room on draft night and have input, I'd be like, hey, Mike, we're not going to do this.

• 33:58Bill Simmons?

  He's like, let me tell you about the Kwame Brown night.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. We like, hey, man, you, you can have all the gear in the world.

• 34:06Bill Simmons?

  Smoke some cigars and blow the smoke over all of us.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  You're allowed to smoke inside. You can have a golf cart wherever you want to go. We just don't want a ton of input on draft night based on the scouting reports.

• 34:17Bill Simmons?

  How about this? Here's 5% of the team just go to, go to some games and be an ambassador for us. But I, I think that's like a seven, eight billion dollar franchise just sitting there. Chicago's a massive city. Like think about what's happened with the Cubs. Think about like the bear, think about the fans, think about the people we both know from Chicago. It's, I just can't believe they're this mediocre every year.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  So you're on record right now saying you would rather have every other roster situation in the East ahead of Chicago.

• 34:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because I'm including the ownership situation.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:53Bill Simmons?

  I just don't, the only thing they have is the potential cap space a year from now and I don't think they'll give a shit. So I have Chicago one, you have Toronto number one. Where'd you have Chicago in your rankings? Were they in top four?

• 35:05Speaker 01

  No, because.

• 35:07Bill Simmons?

  So who do you have second?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Well, this is where it becomes kind of like a debate of like, is Washington's most valuable asset right now Trey Johnson? That seems a little weird. He's never played.

• 35:25Bill Simmons?

  And yet we both like everything they're doing.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  I like everything they're doing, but I mean, I wouldn't. Still a lot of other rosters I would rather have.

• 35:36Bill Simmons?

  So you would rather have Chicago's roster and situation over, over Washington's roster and situation? Cause I think I, to me, no way. I think that's crazy. I would so much rather be Washington.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  But there's not really, yeah, there's just not a lot on the team though. Like you want to sell me on 110 million in expiring contracts next year?

• 35:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Okay. But we just, we just saw Brooklyn do that.

• 36:02Bill Simmons?

  Right. Middleton, Smart, Holmes, McCollum, Melinick, all expirings. They got Kispert on decent contract and they have a young nucleus of all guys I kind of like. Sar? Thought he looked a little Serge Ibaka last year. We both like Trey Johnson, at least worst case scenario as an awesome heat check guy. Right? The worst case scenario, he'll be a 25 minutes a game, 16 minutes, 16 points a game, 40% from three. Bob Carrington, I think we both liked. Kim Whitmore, we both like. Kula Bali, I feel like there's something there.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I like Kula Bali and Bob probably more than any of the players that are, that have played in games for him.

• 36:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Cause I, I do think they, they do have an edge to them. Like there's something kind of fun about them being young and not giving a shit or not knowing any better, where you just would watch a random Washington game late in the season, you'd be like, these guys are actually feeling themselves a little bit.

• 36:58Bill Simmons?

  They have all their firsts. They have a couple of good swaps and the big thing, they have the 20, 30 and Phoenix, with Phoenix, they can swap picks with Phoenix and, uh, and cash in. And that might be a good one. So the draft pick situation's good. The salary cap for the first time, when has Washington had a good salary cap situation? I can't even think of it in the last 15 years. When they got Gilbert Arenas, was that 20 years ago?

• 37:30Bill Simmons?

  And I think the guys that run the team know what they're doing.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  I love the guys that run the team.

• 37:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  But I do think when you're trying to like gauge rosters going forward, like Sarr might actually not be good too. Would you allow that? I mean, is there a chance that Sarr is like, oh, that didn't really work? Okay. And then what is bub? And then is Kula Bali like an energy guy? Or is he a guy that you're like, is there one guy on this team? Like the guy who may be getting you tasked with getting you buckets at the end of a game where it's tight. Granted, CJ could be there, Middleton, whatever.

• 38:00Bill Simmons?

  Who's that on Chicago then?

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Well, I still think Kobe White and Vooch and, and Giddy.

• 38:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Like there's.

• 38:09Bill Simmons?

  That's just for next year though.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I, well, still like there, it was harder for me to go, hey, 110 and expiring contracts, good draft capital coming in, but the most valuable players, a guy who just went six in the draft two weeks ago, like that was hard for me to choose that.

• 38:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Over like, I'm not telling you, I love everybody on the Bulls either. We're in agreement, but I think there has to be something to say. It's like, hey, there's a couple of guys that are actually like good and have played multiple years on that team.

• 38:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Would you rather, would you rather have Washington's roster or the Nets roster?

• 38:43Bill Simmons?

  I had the Nets second on my list of situations I wouldn't want to have.

• 38:50Bill Simmons?

  And I know they have a bunch of fun picks.

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  They have, so they got Porter and, and Terrence Mann for 54 and 56 million combined next two years. Claxton's are one tradable asset.

• 39:07Bill Simmons?

  I don't really love a single young guy on this team. I don't even know if you ask me who my favorite Net is.

• 39:17Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what my answer would be. I guess Nick Claxton.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  That seems like a weird favorite player.

• 39:24Bill Simmons?

  What's, who's the, who would you have as the best Nets asset? Who's the one you're driving at home about thinking like, that's our guy? He'll be on the side of Barclays someday.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Isn't it Cam Thomas's scoring?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  I know. You can't believe I just complimented Cam Thomas.

• 39:40Bill Simmons?

  No. So they have all their firsts. They have a top eight 2027 Philly pick.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  They can trade nine future picks. They have a good, yeah.

• 39:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they have three Knicks firsts, 27, 29, and 31. The only bad thing is they, uh, they have a swap with Houston in 27 where they lose the first. So they, and one of the things with about like just throwing a season away. We just saw this happen in the lottery. It doesn't necessarily guarantee anything because they changed these lottery odds. You saw Utah and Washington throw seasons away and get the fifth and sixth picks. So when you hear about Brooklyn, ah, they don't want to be good next year. It's like, I don't know if they realize that doesn't guarantee jack shit anymore. Cool, you'll get the fifth pick in the draft. Like, I don't know. At some point, I'd rather,

• 40:28Bill Simmons?

  I'd rather have some combination of maybe some, some young building blocks and I'm going to be bad anyway, just because there's so many good teams in the league. Or as much cap space as, but they're like in no man's land. I just, I don't understand what they did with all the cap space where they basically turned all of their cap space into Porter and Terrence Mann. This, I thought it was really stupid and lost Cam Johnson somehow.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  My guess is they canvassed it. That was the best they could do, the unprotected. But I don't understand how they didn't get two assets because they did two things that helped the other team. So we're just saying the same thing over here again.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  But the problem is they're coming off of using five first round draft picks. And there were a lot of teams that were like, if you were to say, hey, you get five swings at it in this range, like you would have never thought that you were going to come up with those five players. And who knows, there's plenty of stuff that's wrong with the draft, but Windhorse was even saying for Windhorse to share that other GMs were laughing during the night at what the Nets were doing. So you combine all of this together. It's like, okay, so you picked up a couple picks here, but your starting five is Jaeger, it's Cam, if he's healthy, that's your backcourt.

• 41:41Bill Simmons?

  Ooh.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Zaire, who they will have at small forward, MPJ, power forward and, and yeah, Claxton's like, you know, 20 million, it's declining contract. He's still young. That was kind of a weird thing because it seemed like they didn't really want to pay him, but they didn't want to lose the asset for nothing. And then it's just all of these other guys.

• 41:59Bill Simmons?

  Well, why not trade Claxton at this point? If you're, if you're down this far down the road, trade Claxton, the Lakers or whoever. Try to pick up a couple more assets.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Motivate Ayton.

• 42:09Bill Simmons?

  I just think using cap space. And Cam Johnson to end up with Porter and one pick was insane. That was my second, uh, that was my number two roster situation I wouldn't want to be. So you had them third?

• 42:24Speaker 01

  No, I like, I like Washington's situation better than the Nets. So let me, like, if I'm doing this.

• 42:29Bill Simmons?

  So you have Brooklyn second.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm going Toronto, Brooklyn. But no, this whole exercise, as I was doing it, I was kind of like, well, this doesn't feel, feel fair to Toronto. If I'm qualifying like, hey, Chicago has a bunch of good, but I just don't like how expensive Toronto is for the next three years.

• 42:49Bill Simmons?

  We have no rules. It's just how you feel. This is a, how do I feel in my gut with these rosters?

• 42:55Speaker 01

  You think if the Nets called in some hypothetical and called the Wizards and said, you can have everything we have.

• 43:02Bill Simmons?

  What's, what's swap situations?

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Totally swap situations. Wizards are saying no 10 out of 10 times.

• 43:07Bill Simmons?

  Wizards hanging up.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  We agree.

• 43:11Bill Simmons?

  Okay, so I had Toronto third. I had one team ahead of Washington in the number four spot and it surprised me. And, uh, and I'm sure it's going to lead to some victory I'll come my way over the next 24 hours. Can't wait for that.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Don't tell me you picked Miami.

• 43:27Bill Simmons?

  I did.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  No way.

• 43:30Bill Simmons?

  I did.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  I flirted with it, but I was like, I can't, I can't.

• 43:34Bill Simmons?

  And by the way, I liked some of the things they did, but, uh, they had this hero extension coming that I, I'm just on pins and needles. Waiting to see how bad that contract is. I think especially when you've seen these numbers drop, anything over what year one hero number?

• 43:53Bill Simmons?

  What number do you immediately start going like this, like that 40?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think north of 40, you're like, why do you have to do this?

• 44:00Bill Simmons?

  39?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Well, what are the numbers?

• 44:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, I'm just saying you're one of the hero extension. So if it's in the 37 range, you're feeling half decent. Let's say it's 37, 39, 41, 43, 45. You're, that's basically 200 million bucks. Five years, 200.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  He could do a four-year 207.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know, just.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  That's where you just go, no, or we don't have to do that. Like, thanks for the buckets, man.

• 44:35Bill Simmons?

  I just.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Really good scorer.

• 44:37Bill Simmons?

  You can't do that.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:39Bill Simmons?

  That immediately would be a top five worst contract. And I like hero and I think he's a very fun offensive player, but that's, you can't. Bam's 37 this year, 51, 55, 59. Wiggins is 28 and 30. They just gave Mitchell, I was okay with that 11 and 12 for the next two. They have Rozier as an expiring. Young players, Ware, Hakez, Yakashunis, Jovic. The alarming thing is their 27 first goes to Charlotte.

• 45:07Bill Simmons?

  And that's just unprotected. That makes me nervous. And I, I think what really makes me nervous with this roster is I'm not sure. If they pay hero, I'm not sure how you get to the late 2020s with a move. And I know they pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm always scared of the heat. Some of the shit they've done, like convincing Portland, take Hassan Whiteside, somehow ended up with Jimmy Butler, like getting LeBron and Bosch, like they've been able to do it over the years, but at some point. The past is the past and the future is the future. I don't know how you go up a level with this roster. I don't know what the miracle move is.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  As much as I like Bam, there's probably a conversation about him being 51, 55 and 60 million. Like, is he that guy? And then you compare, like, that's where the hero extension seems even nastier. Cause I probably like hero more now than I ever have because I think the shot making is that special, but it's pretty one dimensional. And you know, there's, if there's not somebody else to hide him defensively, it's a disaster as we've seen in the last two playoff rounds. I mean, they got smoked.

• 46:19Bill Simmons?

  He was hunted, I think, as voraciously as any player in the East.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  And they did it with the Celtics in that matchup last year. They had, cause they had to put the better defender on Tatum, ended up with Jaylen Brown being guarded by hero. You're like, oh my God, this is, and you still had like some zombie heat stuff. So if you're going 50, that's just a lot, like 101, 105 million with Bam and hero is your, is your top two guys. And that kind of gets back to like, hey, we're not a friend, you know, depending on whatever team you are, we're not afraid to spend, but it's like, how are you spending on your top three guys? That's, that's way too much for those two guys. And I, and I actually like both players, but.

• 46:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a problem when I, I like Bam and here too, but when you just levitate above it and you go, all right, what's my ceiling with Bam and here are my two best, most expensive players? What am I winning? And the answer is nothing. It's funny. LeBron is in this situation right now in the Lakers. LeBron, like the, we talked about last week about those rich Paul, LeBron wants to compete for titles. Okay. Well, you have a team that has Luka Doncic on it, who's probably the best young offensive superstar that has come into the league. That's a non-center in a long time and who's one of the best seven guys in the league. You have role players, you have a good coach, you were a three seed last year.

• 47:44Bill Simmons?

  You're not a title contender. Could part of that be that you're paying LeBron $53 million and he's 41? And you have to get nine months out of him? I think that's a piece of it, you know? So at some point, like, can you win a title if Luca, LeBron and Reeves are your three best players? And most of your salary cap and LeBron seems to think maybe not. But he's part of, part of the issue because of what they're paying him? And it's same thing with Miami. Like if you have Bam and here, I just, I don't know what the, what the ceiling is. Round two?

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, at best.

• 48:20Bill Simmons?

  I mean, that's why they were looking at Durant, although I guess they backed off on it this summer.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Didn't that Wiggins deal that was being floated around for Rui and then all these other Lakers pieces? I'm like, I'd rather have Rui than Wiggins.

• 48:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I didn't understand. What was that like Rui and Vincent and some other stuff? So anyway, I have a.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Connect that that poor kid just hasn't been able to unpack his bags for months.

• 48:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's a he's in a Motel Eight. So I have Miami fourth. Who else did you have in your top four? Did you put Charlotte in there?

• 48:52Speaker 01

  I put Charlotte in there.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  You know, they won 19 games last year, third lowest in the league. They have a million players on the books, by the way, too.

• 49:04Bill Simmons?

  It is a shocking spot track.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's you need.

• 49:07Bill Simmons?

  It's like, whoa, I forgot they have Josh Green. Oh, there's Grant Williams.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  And so if you look at LaMelo, he's 38, 41, 43 and a half, 46 and a half. He's played 105 games the last three years. And then with Mello, Bridges, Sexton's expiring, Josh Green, Grant Williams, Miller, they're all the next two years, except for Sexton. And again, Miller's not an extension yet. So you could talk me into, hey, Miller's nice. You know, they they maybe they killed it in the draft with Knippel and getting back in at the end of the first round. But this Charlotte is in my top four as I would rather have Miami. Cause at least if I'm paying Bam and Hero, I'm paying, I'm paying guys that I know aren't top tier.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  But I like, I don't think I have to worry about them where I think Mello is unless it changes, and this isn't exactly new, but I think the franchise is somewhat held hostage, just somebody who was really dynamic and fun and a fan favorite. And it's like, all right, we kind of have something here. And it's like, yeah, but you may have something that's like a worthwhile attraction that is also getting in the way of who you can be as a basketball team. And if I were running a team that that had to deal with that, like, that's the stuff where I just think it's like, we're not making basketball decisions here. We're making like entertainment decisions.

• 50:32Bill Simmons?

  But if Charlotte called Miami and said, we'll trade you LaMelo for Hero, I think Miami's cool. We'll call it in.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, he doesn't, he misses a ton of games. So even if you love him. So, I mean, if, if you were Charlotte and they called Pat Riley and said, do you want our situation?

• 50:51Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna ask you that. If Charlotte calls Pat Riley and said, we'll flip everything. Every player we have and all of the draft picks we have for your entire situation. I think Miami says yes.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  You do?

• 51:04Bill Simmons?

  I do. I think it's a better situation. I get LaMelo, I get Brandon Miller, I get Knippel. I get Bridges on a decent deal. Maybe not the greatest guy. Sexton. I get all these picks. I get a Dallas first. I have some calf space. I think I'd rather have that situation. I think I talked about this on the pod with you already, but I really like all the stuff Charlotte did. Where they're basically like, just these little slight upgrade deals, you know, like, all right, we'll take, we'll help you out with Connaughton and you can take Mitic and buy him out. And we'll take some stuff with that. But, you know, nothing, nothing major, but just kind of smart. Just seems like the boat's rowing in the right direction finally for them. Took a while.

• 51:47Bill Simmons?

  It only took the entire decade. All right, teams.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  The ownership, I think it's smarter, much smarter group. And everybody would tell you.

• 51:55Bill Simmons?

  Front office owners and Charles Lee.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  So it was gonna take a little while for you to feel it. And, you know, I think the LaMelo decision

• 52:05Speaker 01

  is a big one. We'll see. Maybe he's just healthy and plays well and there's more talent around him and it all kind of works out because that'd be cool too. Because there's a lot of people that love him down there. But.

• 52:14Bill Simmons?

  Two honorable mentions for me were Milwaukee and Indiana. And I, I'm not willing to panic about Indiana. I just think it's gonna be one bad year for them, but they do have their first round pick. They do have a bunch of guys on good contracts. They have a great coach, winning pedigree. Halber should be back in a year and whatever. So Milwaukee, just quickly. Because I think that didn't make the top five for me. And I'm already on the record as just how stupefied I was by the damn thing and everything they did. And it's interesting that the Bucks fans for the most part seem like. They're fully supportive of what they did with Giannis.

• 52:55Bill Simmons?

  And I was trying, I was really trying to look at it from the other side because my, my instincts on it were so against it. And I thought it was just so crazy because if you're going to do everything they did, but not lock down, oh, they did all this stuff. They now have no outs whatsoever. But now they're the second best team in the East. Like you could get it. They still have, I think, the eighth best odds on Fanduel with the East. So eighth in the East. Eighth in the East. That's nuts. They're 20 to one in the East. So if you, so if you're going to do counters, I guess it looks like this. Giannis doesn't want to go and they don't want to lose Giannis. So they have a two-year window with him and then he's got the player option.

• 53:40Bill Simmons?

  So they're basically looking at it like these next two years, like this Dame thing fucked us. We have to figure this out. We don't want to trade Giannis. What, what can we do? So they save 14 million and 13 million for those first two years with the Dame Turner thing. Right? So you could be like, okay, that's good. That's positive. We've saved money, even though we're paying out of our ass in the back way. Turner on paper is a good center for Giannis, right? Can shoot threes, shot wide. Their defense is going to be good. They really hurt the Pacers, which I think they hate the Pacers. So I'm sure that was like a fun thing for them. One thing I was thinking, and maybe I should have thought about this a few days ago, but I think we both think Turner would have been a, maybe a third.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  If you're talking about overpaying Turner, maybe it's 130 for four years. I wouldn't have blinked if that was the number, right? I would have been like, whoa, that's high. But I, I kind of thought it was going to be around there. So they get him like five million a year cheaper. The East is wide open and you mentioned this on the pod with Bobby, that with the cap jumping seven to 10% every year, maybe there is a little bit more of an NFL mentality. Where it's like, all right, we're going to lose 22 million a year, but the cap's going to go up. Like by the time we get to year five, maybe that's not that dangerous anyway. But the big thing is if you did nothing, you throw away Giannis here. So I really tried to see it from their side. I never would have done this and I just, I just want to make that clear again.

• 55:10Bill Simmons?

  But I understand like they're just, they're so far all in that at this point it's like, whoa, everyone's getting fired anyway. If this doesn't work out, we might as well try this. I still wouldn't have done it.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. My first thing on it was like, just knowing the Pacers, because we had even mentioned this, I think, just in passing. We didn't really dig into it, but I was like, I wonder if the Halliburton injury will be an excuse for that Pacers ownership group to then not pay the tax again. Right. Even though they had flipped the 25 pick for the 26, you looked at it like, hey, that's a pretty smart, kind of heady deal. And it maybe means like, they're going to go into the tax a little bit. But I don't know how the revenue split breaks down, because like, even going in the tax a little bit, then when you officially become a taxpaying team, I know back in the day, it was like, you're sacrificing millions. But you would have thought, hey, they can't do this, right? They can't, just a week and a half after being eliminated in game seven of the finals, they can't just let Turner go. And then, the

• 56:04Speaker 01

  more I thought about it, the more I, I actually was like, the only thing that impressed me about it was that Turner and his reps were able to pull this off. That they were able to find cap space for him that didn't exist. Right. Through the stretch revision, because I, it reminds me a bit, like, I remember when the Vooch trade was done to Chicago, and a front office guy who's really good, we were talking about the trade, and he said, you know, I just have, I think a good rule is, if you're giving up those kinds of assets, and they're giving up two firsts, right? And they're giving up Wendell. And that was, that was a lot to give up for Vooch. Wendell with two firsts.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. So, you're like, if you're gonna do that kind of deal, you have to be able to say, like, okay, we go from a first round exit to like, a second round exit, or maybe, you know, we, we have the third best chance of being in the Eastern Conference Finals, right? We're not, one, we're not two, but like, could we sit here and be realistic about it and say, hey, we'll, we'll be in the top three of, of the East with this investment? And it's like, when you look at the Vooch deal, you go, yeah, we're probably the same team. We're probably the same team ceiling wise of what we can be in the East in the playoffs, despite, you know, Vooch, who puts up some numbers,

• 57:25Speaker 01

  in theory, stretches the floor and all that kind of stuff. This deal felt, like, it reminded me of that, where it's like, okay, what were we before? And now, what do we guarantee ourselves? Like, how much has the ceiling actually improved? Even though Turner's better than Brook Lopez at this stage of their careers, there's an argument. More minutes. Yeah, there's an argument to be made. It's like, you may not have guaranteed yourself advancing at all in the East. And that's.

• 57:53Bill Simmons?

  It's a tough one. I don't, I, I think the Dame thing combined with the situation in the room with Yanis, they didn't have the luxury of what the Celtics did, but I just.

• 58:05Bill Simmons?

  When you look at their picks, which is the other piece of that, where they basically don't control any of their picks the next five years, they kind of don't have a choice at that point. Right. We're just like, well, what are we going to do? So hopefully Miles Turner is awesome for us. Hopefully we can patch together. I mean, if they got your guy CP.

• 58:23Bill Simmons?

  For a year. Not inconceivable. Um, we'll see. Um, okay. We're take a break and then we're going to do the West. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes, yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865, brilliantly boring since 1865 is a registered

• 59:04Bill Simmons?

  mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association, Member, FDIC. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off. Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Opening US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026, ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at

• 59:48Bill Simmons?

  michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, the West. The number one is a little easier in the West. I would assume we have the same number one, a team owned by the one, the only Matt Ishbia. Matt with one T.

• 1:00:26Bill Simmons?

  I am going to ask you if this is the bleakest situation since the mid 2010s Brooklyn Nets after Prokhorov's like, let's do 180. I know we don't have any picks, but I don't want to spend money anymore. Is this the worst situation since then?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't think it's that bad. Is it? You still have Booker in his prime?

• 1:00:54Bill Simmons?

  All of their picks are gone or swapped until 2031. And that pick's gone too, I think. That goes to Utah. They had Booker locked down. They're going to buy Beal out apparently in the next 24 hours for some crazy price. Jalen Green, three for 105. I don't think either of us would want to pay that. Brooks for two years, Grayson Allen and Rose O'Neal, double figures for the next couple of years. They have the two Charlotte centers. And they're going to be paying Booker like $75 million a year.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  On a new extension, right?

• 1:01:32Bill Simmons?

  And then probably what, nine months from now, he's going to be like, hey, guys, can you send me to a winning team now?

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  I don't know. He seems to be, he seems to be like totally into the Phoenix thing. So I, I don't know. I can't predict how he's going to feel other than he's felt like a really good partner as the face of the franchise as opposed to some other guys.

• 1:01:53Bill Simmons?

  They're going to be a lottery team without a pick. And I don't see any path forward. I don't, I mean, Malachi, Malachi would have to be a, like a revelation for me to feel better about this situation. Like a revelation where we're like, holy shit. This is like watching Ewing and Georgetown. This is like, queue up the 85 Ewing highlights. He's back.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would be a little surprising, although, you know, I did, I did like him. I liked him too. Yeah, this is just one of those, it's back to the no outs thing, like Booker's still better. Booker's better than anyone on Utah. Booker's better than anybody on Portland. Booker's better than anybody on New Orleans. Yeah. San Antonio, you know, that's probably not a conversation just because of what we think of Wemby. But it's, uh, the only argument you have here is, is Booker's talent level than surrounded by no options. And it's expensive.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Who do you have number two?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Sacramento. I had them as well.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  I don't know that you realize how bad it is until you go through the exercise. I was stunned. Yeah, so it's Levine and Sabonis are a cool 90 million. And then 94 in a year from now. Yeah, like Miami fans should be going, well, at least we're not doing that with Bam and Hero, right? So you've got Sabonis, Levine, DeRozan, who, you know, look, DeRozan at 25 and 28 million is, is fine. Like a guy just seems to age really well amongst it like 40 million in the next two years. But it's 133 and a half million for those four guys this year. It's 142 and a half million next year for those four guys.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Then here's Dennis Schroder for three for 44. Let's throw him in there. Yeah, I, when at the time though, I would have rather done that deal than the Levert deal. Cause I just think Schroder can find ways to help in, in multiple ways, but it's just not a very exciting team. You have, I think, the least winning top paid player on a team, a guy that, I mean, none of this is again, new on my Levine stuff. But that's, um, that's a team that is fucked.

• 1:04:17Bill Simmons?

  Well, and Keegan Murray, who they're gonna have to make a decision on an extension at some point. And I just feels like he's gotten worse the last two years where they felt like there was something there. I'm not seeing it. They have they have their own first. They have a mini 2031 and they have a top eight San Antonio first. So they have stuff to trade. I there was Zach floated this out a couple of times that this seemed like a possible Jaylen Brown overpay team. I still feel like if you're gonna make the if we're gonna do an overpay, who's most likely to just do a complete crazy overpay trade fantasy draft? I think I would have them first because they're they're like Chicago in no man's land, but they don't want to be in no man's land and they're ready to do stuff. I just don't

• 1:05:02Bill Simmons?

  think the opportunity has presented itself. But it's a weird one. I just don't like their roster. I don't like the guys together and they don't really have a lot of outs with it. You know, the DeRozan contract last year made sense when they did it. But now, you know, is if you called Atlanta and said, Hey, you want to take DeRozan in your trade exception? I just don't think Atlanta would do it. So, yeah, I had them second as well.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  I'm sure they can move DeRozan if they want to because I still think DeRozan like I cannot believe how productive he still is. But it's

• 1:05:35Bill Simmons?

  Would you do it for Norm Powell?

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  You know, I think Norm, I'd probably, I'd probably rather pay Norm because he's younger and I would give

• 1:05:45Bill Simmons?

  Cheaper too.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  I would say his injury stuff last year is what derailed what was like an insane start for him. So, and Norm's a better shooter from three.

• 1:05:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'd rather have Norm too. Who'd you have for your third team? This I thought number three was tough. It was pretty clear that Phoenix was one and Sacramento was two. And then third, I thought, I thought was a hard one.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  See, the way you're going with this, I feel like you're gonna say Pelicans now.

• 1:06:18Bill Simmons?

  Wow, you know me, you know me so well. That's who I had.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  All right. So give me the Pelicans argument.

• 1:06:25Bill Simmons?

  It's a team of assets that I like that make no sense together. I don't think they're gonna be good next year and they don't have their pick.

• 1:06:37Bill Simmons?

  And I think my favorite asset of everybody to have is Troy Murphy.

• 1:06:42Bill Simmons?

  At four for 112, Herb Jones, two for 29.

• 1:06:50Bill Simmons?

  I said Troy Murphy, Trey Murphy. Sorry, Trey. Trey Murphy. Remember Troy Murphy? My dad always liked him.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  His cap holder still.

• 1:06:58Bill Simmons?

  My dad always enjoyed Troy Murphy. Trey Murphy, four for 112, Jones, two for 29. They have Queen and Fears and Hawkins and Missy. You know, some good young talent. Murray coming back up in Achilles. They have Jordan Poole for two years for reasons that are made unclear. And then this weird Zion situation. And it's like they're zigging and zagging at the same time. By trading your pick, you're telling us you think you can compete for a top six playoff spot. And yet, looking at the West, I don't see any chance that happens.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  I like a bunch of the guys, so.

• 1:07:36Bill Simmons?

  Me too.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  You're saying this is third worst.

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  It's more a reflection of the West than them. Cause I don't think they would be top five worst than the East.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Right. But like, let's just play it out. Why is this worse than Utah?

• 1:07:54Bill Simmons?

  Cause all those picks Utah has combined with a.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  They have two firsts out of their own Minnesota and Cleveland in 27, 29. They've got a Lakers top four protected 27. They've got the unprotected Phoenix 31. They've got a swap with Minnesota or Cleveland in 28. Another swap, or excuse me, in 26 and then another Cleveland swap in 28.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  But if we're just talking players.

• 1:08:23Bill Simmons?

  Like Utah knows what they're doing more. Maybe that shouldn't factor into this.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Okay, but if we're going like through the Utah players.

• 1:08:31Bill Simmons?

  So you'd rather have the New Orleans players in the Utah picks?

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Who's the best asset? Give me the, give me the three best assets on Utah.

• 1:08:44Bill Simmons?

  Marketing.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:08:49Bill Simmons?

  Probably Ace Bailey, just because of where they picked them.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Right. Back to the Washington thing.

• 1:08:54Bill Simmons?

  Kessler. Yeah, it gets bleak fast.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Hendricks, Clayton Jr.

• 1:09:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, New Orleans has two cap killer assets and, and Murray coming off of his injury. And then Jordan Poole, who they willingly traded for for 66 million for two years. They're like, sure.

• 1:09:17Bill Simmons?

  I, and they have a bunch of young players. I, I actually think the way they built their roster is going to be counterproductive because it's too many guys and none of them have really proven anything. So you have all these different assets, like Trey Murphy is going to be like, I'm ready to have an awesome year and be discussed in a real way. Herb Jones is like, I'm ready to do all Herb Jones things on a, on a good team. Zion has been in the league now six years. What's, when is the Zion, hey, guys, I'm laying the smackdown. I don't know what to make of this team.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Zion is in this, in this career, it's just always worth reminding everybody this. 24 games, 61 games, zero games, 29 games, 70 games where he got hurt in the plan against the Lakers when he had 40.

• 1:10:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  And then 30 games last year. So it's, it's a lot like the LaMelo thing where you have this thing and you're like, okay, but you're just waiting around for him. I mean, if he's healthy somewhere, honestly, if he's healthy somewhere else and puts up some big numbers, then so be it.

• 1:10:22Bill Simmons?

  There is a New Orleans stink that is, it's hard to separate it from the situation. Cause being in New Orleans with how dysfunctional that organization and city and ownership has been year after year after year. If you just basically took all this stuff and put it with a better infrastructure and everything around it, you might be in better shape, but

• 1:10:44Bill Simmons?

  you know, it's just year after year in that city with the, with the, you know. I don't know. I mean, you read that, the piece this week about.

• 1:10:57Bill Simmons?

  He called Atlanta, kept asking them over and over again. So it's an unprotected pick, right? And they're like, yeah, yeah, it's unprotected. It's like, just one more time. It's unprotected, right? Like, you hear stuff like that, and you're like, holy shit. How does, how does this team even suit up 82 times? How do they even coordinate the travel correctly?

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  And these are the new guys.

• 1:11:18Bill Simmons?

  Cities.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  These are the new guys, so.

• 1:11:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but it's basically Weaver's running the team for Dumas. And Weaver, like, I don't think could have done a worse job for the Pistons. Could he have done a worse job?

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  I'm not.

• 1:11:32Bill Simmons?

  That was one of those, like, I'm not positive that guy was gonna get another job. All right, so who'd you have third if it was New Orleans? You had Utah.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz I like Trey, Herb.

• 1:11:46Bill Simmons?

  And the potential of Zion.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:48Bill Simmons?

  It's a 3A, 3B.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  There's, that would be an interesting one, though. I, I think Utah would probably say, we're fine. We have all of these picks. We, you know, if Taylor Hendricks turns out to be something.

• 1:12:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  Clayton or Kianta turn into something, maybe. I mean, you know.

• 1:12:08Bill Simmons?

  It's a good argument. It's, I think those are the three and four in some order. And then, I couldn't believe I had this team in the top five, but I kinda ran out of teams cuz the West is, and, but I think it's the Clippers. I think they have to be fifth. Even though I think that's a, I think they're a potential round three playoff team this year. But I just like, big picture, Kawhi for two more years, 50 and 50. They're paying Kawhi and Harden 90 and 92. They're paying Bogdanovich on expirings, that's about it. Not a lot of leverage with the roster.

• 1:12:47Bill Simmons?

  They have some, some, couple positive pick stuff and a couple lousy pick stuff, including a Philly swap, their 28 goes to Philly, stuff like that. They do have 26 million on the cap in 27, 28. I, listen, in the East, it's, they would, wouldn't even sniff the top five. But I was just trying to think of like, what situation could potentially just go badly? And you have to go Denver, Golden State. Cause Golden State is basically this two-year runway now. They're on the cap in the summer of 27, they'll have $23 million in players in the cap. So they're open for business in all of these ways, but that could also go horribly.

• 1:13:28Bill Simmons?

  You know, and maybe short-term it might even get, so it's one of those two, I think in that spot. Cause I can't put Portland, I like the Portland five-year situation over both of those teams.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went through and did Portland stuff. You know, Grant's on the books for 32, 34 million the next two years and you forget he's on the team. But I think between, like if you

• 1:13:51Bill Simmons?

  And Drew, you didn't like the Drew contract either. Drew three for 100 basically, and then the

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was honestly, I was shocked that they did that, but uh.

• 1:14:01Bill Simmons?

  You might be right. It's, it's starting to look worse now that we've seen some of the free agent money. That Drew's going to make that with some of the other prices that guy's got, maybe that, I might've been wrong on that one.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you kind of were right because they got an asset out of it where I thought that's clearly a pick in a dump. I would have thought they were going to have to attach a pick to it. And then the Celtics are just super confident. Like they did a really good job canvassing the market. You had heard they, they've got a landing spot for this guy, but if they don't need to do it that way, they could do this thing first. And then, you know, they, they got out of a ton of money and saved themselves a ton of money and they still have the flexibility back. Like I think Niang's a rotation guy and a good team. I think Simons allows you to get creative or you could just say, why don't you score some, I don't know what they're going to do with him. But you could, you could see them having like an okay season where he's scoring a ton off the bench. And they're just like, look, you're a scorer and you can find a bunch of shots.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  So look, I think if you go through Portland stuff, you go, okay.

• 1:15:01Bill Simmons?

  The picks are where it gets really good.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Sharp feels like a nice, like, yeah, maybe Denny's looked like he's going to be good. I think Scoot took a step in the right direction. Still needs to be better for him to match kind of our excitement. Kamara, I love Klingon, you know, I don't, I don't know if Chris Murray's getting the world excited about it. But there's at least like among the five new guys that are in there.

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  There's kind of some hope where even with some of these other teams that are bad. You can't, you've probably given up on three of, three of the six or seven young guys already.

• 1:15:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  If that makes any sense.

• 1:15:38Bill Simmons?

  They have Milwaukee swaps in 28 and 30. They can keep the best version of Boston or Milwaukee in 29. They have all their own picks. It's pretty good. And, and I think they're going to be a really interesting. Wouldn't be shocked if they went like 47 and 35 type of team this year just because I think their defense is going to be really good. And it's going to hinge on our guy. We have a ton of Scoot stock. It's going to hinge on how good offensively he can be for them. But, uh, I kind of like the team. I think they have an identity. I think that's a really hard thing to do when you're a lottery team to build a type of group of players that seem like they actually fit together, which I don't think New Orleans

• 1:16:23Bill Simmons?

  has.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  It'll be interesting though, because there was one number that showed kind of an outlier opposing three point percentage in the second half. And that may, every now and then you'll see some weird like outlier or opposing three point percentage where you go, oh, that's what happened. Like, were they really good defensively or did they just get really lucky in opponents makes? So that'd be something that I'm like looking for the first few months of next season.

• 1:16:54Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what, you're going to want WeatherTech in your vehicle, whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season. Whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the weather's fault, you're going to want WeatherTech for American made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather. Visit weatherTech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures, WildHorse9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Minneh Sharon and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island.

• 1:17:39Bill Simmons?

  Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. WildHorse9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss WildHorse9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. Would you rather be Golden State or the Clippers the next five years?

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  Golden State.

• 1:18:10Bill Simmons?

  Cause you get short-term Curry, long-term cap space.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Curry's the best partner in his era in basketball.

• 1:18:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  And I don't have to worry about the bullshit that you have to worry about with everybody else.

• 1:18:22Bill Simmons?

  You know, I agree. The only other team I looked at was Memphis just because of, uh, they gave Jaren that extension. He immediately got hurt. Um, Ja Morant.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Just shows how much he's built different though. He's just out grinding.

• 1:18:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Non-sanctioned hoops.

• 1:18:37Bill Simmons?

  Ja Morant, no idea what to expect with him. Contracts are fine. I like some of their young guys. They have all their first, plus they were laying up first, so they didn't, they didn't make it. And then I did look at the Lakers situation for a second, just because.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Not when you have one of the three best, it's kind of the Yanis thing in Milwaukee. Like it can be a mess and granted the Lakers future met, but there, there has to be some point of these conversations where look at each other and go, oh, you have one of the three best players in the world.

• 1:19:05Bill Simmons?

  But here's why I paused. He is, he is a, does not have an extension yet.

• 1:19:14Bill Simmons?

  It's the only thing that made me pause.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  How happy are you going to be if he decides to sign somewhere else?

• 1:19:20Bill Simmons?

  I don't see any scenario where that happens, but I also, if I was a Laker fan, I would be sleeping with one eye open until it happens. Who knows? There's going to be a lot of teams with cap space.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Give me.

• 1:19:35Bill Simmons?

  Now that everyone's figured out the system, I mean, one of the things I, I just think the way they, and we've been talking about it for two years, but they do the, they changed these CBAs and they immediately put in the new rules and these teams who have been doing whatever they've been doing. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, the rules have changed. It's like, okay, cool. Well, we didn't know that when we made all the decisions we've made the last two years, like the Celtics and other teams. But I think by the time we get to 26, 27, everyone's going to have a feel for, all right, if I create cap space and I do this and I can make, so he, he's, that could be a really good free agent sweepstakes. My assumption is he'll sign an extension in August. I'd be shocked if he didn't.

• 1:20:17Bill Simmons?

  But who knows?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Would it be like a wild card round for the Pats or Red Sox if Luca didn't sign? That's not on the level of a banner, right?

• 1:20:30Bill Simmons?

  So would I trade the Pats couldn't make the playoffs for five years if, but Luca leaves the Lakers? Would I take that?

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:40Bill Simmons?

  I think I'd go three years.

• 1:20:44Bill Simmons?

  Five's a lot. Five's like a half decade. I'm old.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Cause you're still so mad that they got him, which is totally understandable.

• 1:20:53Bill Simmons?

  There's been some benefits though. It, it definitely created one of the most bizarre LeBron situations. I think that's been pretty fun.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  I still don't really get the LeBron thing, you know? Cause I think it's actually as simple as it needs to be on its surface. It's like, so you were mad, you didn't get the extension. So you opted in. So there was nothing else for you to do. There was nowhere for you to make that money. And now what? Like somebody's going to hear from you about it? I don't know, man. That one's, that one's still a weird deal a week later.

• 1:21:25Bill Simmons?

  I think it's as simple as this.

• 1:21:29Bill Simmons?

  He is the best NBA player ever to be in a situation like this where he's on somebody else's team.

• 1:21:37Bill Simmons?

  I think it's really that simple. Like if I go through the best guys of all time that I have, you know, going, going down from like Jordan was never in the situation. Bill Russell, never. Kareem, never. Magic, never. Bird, never. Duncan, never. Will Chamberlain.

• 1:22:02Bill Simmons?

  Got traded twice, but, but even near the end, like they, they won the title in 72. He was on the Lakers. He went to the ABA, like he was always controlling his own destiny. Curry, Kobe, Jerry West. You finally get to like Hakeem. It's like the first great guy who was like, oh shit, my team doesn't really seem like they want to build around me and, and have it be my team anymore. So I, I think that's a really hard thing to deal with. It's been like 23 years from the moment Luca showed up. And then it was like Luca, Luca, Luca, and there's jerseys in the thing and, and they're changing their style on the fly to kind of fit what Luca does. I don't know if he's a huge fan.

• 1:22:45Bill Simmons?

  You could kind of see it. You went to a bunch of Laker games. There were moments where he was like, all right, I guess I'll stand over here and Luca's gonna do the,

• 1:22:53Bill Simmons?

  do the dribble the ball out and then shoot thing. So I think it's a hard thing to get used to because it's like the Doug Collins quote where Doug Collins though is like, the hardest thing to coach is a generational superstar. So it was when they're getting old, it's the hardest thing to coach. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the right situation is for him. That's the weird thing. Like he was playing basketball in the Cleveland gym.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:23:19Bill Simmons?

  The other day. And yeah, I guess he does that every year. It wasn't non-story, but it was also like the timing of it was suspicious because he takes this Instagram.

• 1:23:28Bill Simmons?

  So I don't know. I don't know how it plays out.

• 1:23:31Bill Simmons?

  He's not getting bought out. I'll tell you that much.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  But I think the part that it's like, can you not understand why somebody wouldn't want to do like another $54 million option that you control for next year? At 42 years old, like could, you know, hey, we can't keep maxing you

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  off of that number and then have you be in control of it. So, you know, could, could you understand that at all? And I don't, I don't think guys that are this special at stuff, they don't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  Well, you made the key point with Bobby. When you were saying, this is just something LeBron chose to do it this way as a, as an employee of a team, to keep people in constant suspense, whether he's going to stay or go because he felt like by never really fully committing long-term, it constantly put pressure on the front office to, we gotta do this or he might leave.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  This is go, this goes all the way back to the first Cleveland run when you first started like really, right? Like really paying attention and it felt like he and Rich Paul enjoyed.

• 1:24:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, it wasn't Rich Paul initially. It was, I mean, you're going, this is like, yeah, good one.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  But it, it played out after that, even with Miami, but it was, it was like, they wanted you as ownership in the front office to always feel anxiety.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  And I would argue, I think at some point that gets in the way of the partnership.

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Cause it would just lead to some resentment. Or maybe it didn't, you know, I mean, you know, the guy made a million NBA finals. So maybe the art, but I just, I was a little surprised that it was like 25, 26. It was like, we're, we're gonna do this like one more time.

• 1:25:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, it was weird on the Lakers because they basically did everything he wanted for years. Right. They did the Davis trade. They got rid of every young guy they had. They mortgaged all of these picks and, and then year after year.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. They tried to pretend the Westbrook deal wasn't what they wanted. You know, they drafted his son, they brought in Reddick. You know, there's, there's maybe a move here or there that they didn't do, but for the most part.

• 1:25:48Bill Simmons?

  The coaches have changed a lot.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's not like they've been fighting him in every turn. Like those guys wanted Vogel out of there. And they go, you know, but they, the reason the Vogel thing didn't work is because he was trying to figure out to make the Westbrook thing work. And the Westbrook thing wasn't going to work a million different ways. And then LeBron and that camp tried to distance themselves from Westbrook thing being like, yeah, we didn't want him either. And you're like, that's not true.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  And then, you know, Darvin Ham comes in and they can't get rid of him quick enough. So I, I, I don't know. I just, I wonder if you could ever have like an honest moment with him. Be like, you know, like people have kind of done what you've wanted to all the time. Do you find things that you think they're doing wrong?

• 1:26:31Bill Simmons?

  The only time I can remember is the summer of 2017, when he wanted the Cavs to trade everything, even though everybody knew he was going to go to LA in a year. And the Cavs are the one team that like, fuck this, we're not, we're not going to do that. Commit to an extension and we'll, we'll go for this, we'll go for Paul George, but.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  It was like a lottery pick for like Deandre Jordan, who was shot at that point. And you were going like, what? And then, I mean, even the Shabazz Napier thing, Miami ends up taking him.

• 1:26:59Bill Simmons?

  I was thinking about the alternate universe. So let's say he opts out. I can't believe we're talking about LeBron. The ESPN producers are making us do this. He, he opts out.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  We can't make fun of them next time because we're doing it.

• 1:27:13Bill Simmons?

  We can't. Well, at least we're doing it at the end of the podcast. He opts out, right? June 30th, he's like, I'm out. I'm done with the Los Angeles Lakers. So it's 53 million, but you think like California taxes, agent fee. So maybe he's pocketing 24 million, right? So he got, let's say he goes to Dallas.

• 1:27:38Bill Simmons?

  What would Dallas be able to pay him like 8.8 for one year?

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Was it the D'Angelo Russell deal?

• 1:27:43Bill Simmons?

  So right. He goes to, yeah, so he gets 8.8, no state taxes in Dallas. Maybe he pockets five. So he's cost himself 20 million. But now he's on Dallas on this awesome team, potentially going for the fifth ring.

• 1:28:02Bill Simmons?

  Could he have made the money back? Would that have been worth it? Like he's supposedly a billionaire, like, I don't know. Would that have been, I wonder if he regrets like the way this played out going, oh, man, I actually should have opted out. That would have been the baller move to be like, fuck it. I'm going to bet on myself. I'm going to go in, I'm going to, I'm going to pick my team. I'm going to, I'm going to make this a, or he goes to Golden State, right? Golden State has some cap space to send some free agents or there's some sign and trade, whatever it is. I wonder if he regrets not opting out. Cause I think that would have been a smarter move, even though it was, you know, you can't tell somebody, well, passing up X amount of money, but I wonder if he would have been able to make it back.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  But what's making it back for him? This is one of those things where the mistake is like, why wouldn't you just opt out of it? I mean, after this past year and then the next year, 52 million, like I'm just looking at it real quick here again. That's going to put him at 580 million in career earnings.

• 1:28:58Bill Simmons?

  So just for NBA, not, that doesn't talk about all the off the court stuff.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Right. So if you were pissed enough about what just went down, because it was sort of a weird press release.

• 1:29:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Is what we're doing.

• 1:29:14Bill Simmons?

  It wasn't sort of a weird press release. It was weird.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  It was weird. It was weird. Yeah.

• 1:29:18Bill Simmons?

  We didn't even really know how to talk about it a week ago, because I was like, we gotta do something about this. And we were kind of like, we didn't really know what it was, but we knew it was something.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so if, you know, that's the part where you're just not going to have any sympathy for him because I'm not, I wouldn't tell anybody, but like, yeah, you should have cost yourself 40 million and then you factor in the taxes, maybe it's 35 million, whatever. You should have done that if that was your main priority. But now it's like, okay, well, you can't say anything. Like you can't be upset about anything because you could have had all the freedom you wanted. You could, you could have gone anywhere you wanted and you weren't going to do that because you didn't want to sacrifice the massive contract number. And so, you know, there you go. Like, it wasn't like they had the team option and they picked it up. You decided to do this, so.

• 1:30:02Bill Simmons?

  Tom, Tom Brady went to Tampa. And I don't, he wasn't full price, but it wasn't like what the situation LeBron would have been in, where LeBron would have like taken a major discount to go to a contender. But you could argue like, if you get that fifth ring, you were a big part of a team, or if you went to Cleveland or wherever. Maybe that would have been worth it. I don't know. Like, at some point, he's made so much money. What is the difference to me? I have 1.7 billion dollars versus 1.6 million, 780,000 dollars. Like, I don't know.

• 1:30:44Bill Simmons?

  Because whatever the situation is now, like, let's play it out. There's going to be, the Lakers haven't said anything for a week. We haven't heard anything from anybody. We haven't heard the new owner, the old owner. We haven't heard anything from JJ. Palenka said nothing. Nobody's even done like a passive aggressive fight back of like, dude, he opted in. We expect him to be here in training camp. We, he says he wants to be on the Lakers. Well, he's on the Lakers and he's the one who asked for the no trade clause. And he's the one, like, we expect to see him on October 1st. I don't know what the problem is. He's Luka Doncic on his team. We got DeAndre Ayton. Like, we were the third, three seed in the, in the West last year. What's the problem? But nobody said that.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  I just

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  hope he understands he can't send

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  the eyes looking at something emoji before the trade deadline.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  And my guess is that he's probably still going to do something cryptic later on. And you're just like, hey, man, the rules are different now. Like it's your, if you want a multi-year deal, I'm sure plenty of teams would do it, but it's not going to be at 50 million.

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  What would be the most amazing? I, I'm trying to think how this would be more fun from a content standpoint. And wouldn't it be Luca being like,

• 1:32:14Bill Simmons?

  it's my team now. He's got to learn how to fit in or like

• 1:32:19Bill Simmons?

  puffing the chest out. You know, he's 17 years older than I am. At some point, you've got to recognize that it's, it's a different generation of players moving in or just some sort of thing that would be like, oh.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Selfishly, maybe LeBron for Jaylen Brown.

• 1:32:36Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  I would, I would, I would ask to come on twice that week with you.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  You just say, can we do a 24 hour pod? Well, that's the other thing. Bobby made the point on your pod that I, I don't even know what is legal with a trade anymore. These rules are so confusing. You know, I was wondering like, is, could you just trade Jimmy Butler for LeBron? Their salaries are almost exactly the same. Apparently you can't.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  No, Jimmy.

• 1:33:05Speaker 01

  Well, Bobby, Bobby was just so good this week, man. So I, I really appreciate you liking that pod because we got done and I went, God, he fucking killed it today. And Bobby was joking that he wanted to have like pre-recorded sounders for us.

• 1:33:18Bill Simmons?

  Right. That we just press a button.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  You and Zach. Ah, that triggers the second apron. Zach might not need it.

• 1:33:25Bill Simmons?

  Is there an AI Bobby? Could we do AI?

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  That should be an app that he invents and you can just download all the soundbites where he's just like, that would put you in the first apron, but since it's aggregated, you know, he just, but then again, we'd have to know that that was happening live as you were bullshitting about all these different things. But the, the best point, the one that you were going to make there is that poor Bobby gets aggregated by ESPN by saying, there's no market for LeBron. Then he goes on to explain why there's no market for LeBron, but it looks-

• 1:33:51Bill Simmons?

  Because nobody can trade for him.

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looks really bad when you've got one of your most plugged in guys saying, but it's kind of back to the Cleveland thing that we were talking about last week and we should probably finish this topic at this point because I don't know how much more I have left on it. Is that as great as he continues to be this late in his career, I can't give up multi-year assets for a guy that like I get, I get where you're in your prime and you're not an awesome partner for a team, but I can't have you north of 40 fucking with me like you're 28.

• 1:34:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  Hey, what do you want to do next year? What would you like to do? Do you want, okay, all right. You want to keep, you want to keep everything? All right. So that means if we're paying you this, we're paying Luca this and we're going to worry about the extension with Luca and then Austin, the whole thing. Chances are we're not like, they were lucky to be able to even get eight. Okay. Like I don't even think that's necessarily like a bad team next year. Um.

• 1:34:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know what it is. It's a Bill Duffy team. Solo agent changing in the guard too. The Duffy guys are coming into the Lakers. Clutch had their seven year run. Now, now it's Bill Duffy's time.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  KCP and a one year 20 something.

• 1:35:06Bill Simmons?

  The eight thing happened after I did my pod on Wednesday. You got to talk about it on Thursday. I just like, there's no more fascinating center you could throw on the Lakers with LeBron and with Luca that where there's more scenarios at play. I just, I thought he was, uh, really tough to take in Portland and the Phoenix people clearly had enough of them. And we've, I've, I've followed the NBA enough with my life that usually guys who show a certain set of behavior for season after season, it doesn't just miraculously change when they're 27.

• 1:35:40Bill Simmons?

  With all that said, the guy puts up points and rebounds and they kind, they needed somebody who can just go 15 and 10 every game, you know, it's he even having him not giving a shit in the Minnesota series last year still would have been better than what they had.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:35:55Bill Simmons?

  That's it. That's if he, if he could actually give a shit for three of the seven games of a series, it's still three more than whatever they had before. So I didn't mind it. Uh, we'll see if LeBron can resurrect him. He was able to resurrect JR Smith. There was, there were some, you know, distressed assets that he was able to pull stuff out of. I don't know if it'll happen with Ayton, but it was certainly a better outcome than I think what we're looking at. When you're looking at the free agent centers and like, ah, ooh.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  It's a total win and I'm going to give Lakers, uh, media. I went looking for the pieces. I went looking for the pro Ayton news. Stop there. He's going to feed off of Luca. He's going to feed off LeBron. JJ's always loved his, his skillset, the foundation of his skills.

• 1:36:49Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  There's still a chance that it happens, but I went looking for it this week to hate read it. And I was going to be so entertained by being like, you're just talking yourself into his credit to all the like, I went through a lot of Laker stuff, locally sourced blogs.

• 1:37:05Bill Simmons?

  Media, good media group.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Really great work out of you guys.

• 1:37:09Bill Simmons?

  Good restraint, everybody. Congrats. Nobody doing the.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  There wasn't one thing. I didn't read one delusional Ayton thing, which I was disappointed by. I was hoping to be entertained and it wasn't even out there. So good job.

• 1:37:21Bill Simmons?

  Nobody writing though. Once upon a time, a guy named Robert Parish was traded to the Boston Celtics, much maligned for his work ethic, a lot like Deandre Ayton, and he became a Hall of Famer. I like, there was some stuff floating around about how Deandre and Luca, because they were in the same draft and Deandre had had some positive Luca comments. And, um, I actually think it's not an awesome offensive basketball fit for how he plays with, I think,

• 1:37:52Bill Simmons?

  Just hypothetically, whatever.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  No, he's less of a lob guy and he's more of a spot up guy.

• 1:37:58Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  Now, can you just say, hey dude, have you looked in the mirror recently? Just can you go catch some of these lobs from Luca?

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, can, can we show you a tape of 100 lobs that you dunked over the course of your career? You and I were on, I think we, we had probably more patience for him than most because we really respected that finals run that he had and some of the stuff he did defensively. It's in there, but those are the kind of guys that break your hearts because you know it's in there.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Because every time I read and look, the, the signings now are reading like press releases from the agencies. And this has been going on for a long time and I understand why we do it or why we have it. Because the agent wants to get his name in there on the transaction. And then when the agent is the one doing the favor to the insiders. So I can't even really get mad at the insiders, but like you'll go through and just want to read a story about a guy signing somewhere. Like, hey, what could I not be thinking of something that I missed, you know? Like I haven't, I've been watching every single eight in game his entire career. And then you run through the ones that come out and they're all, you could tell they're like written by the agency.

• 1:39:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  And by the time you're done with the eight and one, you're like, holy shit. This guy's amazing.

• 1:39:10Bill Simmons?

  How many, only 19 guys ever averaged 15 and 10 their first six seasons?

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  Whoa. Yeah, there's, there's some number that's like, he's the first guy or he's one of only like seven guys to start their career 10 and 10, which, you know, is still a pretty impressive rebounding number. It's not impressive scoring number, but there was about three or four lines in one of the stories that I read about him. And you get done with like the last portion of it and you're thinking, I can't believe this guy was available. He's 26 and you're like, what a day, like think about everything that you just read.

• 1:39:42Bill Simmons?

  What a steal.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  And that Portland was still like, we're good.

• 1:39:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Paragraph 12 is Portland paid him $25 million to go away.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  At 26 years old.

• 1:39:54Bill Simmons?

  When they have a defensive identity. But even Chauncey was like, please. So yeah, they got him. I really liked the Lurie. I, as you know, like Luravia. I don't know if he would have been my number one target in free agency, but I, I do like him. I think he's going to play for them. And all the Laker fans who were telling us all summer, they were going to trade Reeves for a center. Like, as always, like, okay, here's a list of the centers. Who are you getting? And unless you're going to try to trade him for Nick Claxton, which I don't, I wouldn't recommend. The centers don't really exist. Anyway, all right, that's it for us.

• 1:40:34Bill Simmons?

  You're so, both of us are kind of cutting back this summer, but you will be on the Braveheart rewatchables at some point this summer. You promised.

• 1:40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I promised. I just don't know if that's a on location one where I'll be. So we were, we were already off to a rough start. Unfortunately, on some of the planning, but that's okay. All, all good things. Nothing to complain about.

• 1:41:00Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  But yeah, Braveheart, I'll, I'd be thrilled to do that because I just had those three Scots on that are rowing from Peru to Sydney. And one of the questions that I had prepped up was, do you guys watch Braveheart regularly? During the tough days, because they're on like day 90 now.

• 1:41:15Bill Simmons?

  Jesus. Well, maybe we do a Twitter poll. Would you rather hear Russillo on a Braveheart rewatchables or Casablanca? Because Fantasy said, Fantasy said he would waive his $53 million player option and sign for the vet minimum if we did Casablanca.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  I'm going to be, I'm not doing this as like fake humble. I want you three to do Casablanca and I don't want to be on it. I think you guys are so fucking good that I, I just don't think, I don't think it makes sense for me to come on and make my jokes and be a dick about some things or, you know, I, I don't want to get in the way.

• 1:41:54Bill Simmons?

  Maybe African Queen, you come on?

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could do African Queen. I loved that movie when I was a kid. I was like, this Bogart guy's got something.

• 1:42:03Bill Simmons?

  Bogart and Hepburn. What a combo.

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just, that boat had its challenges. I mean, that's, I didn't even realize how passionate I would be about nautical stuff. How's it going to make it?

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  Russell, good to see you. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. New rewatchable is coming. Tomorrow we did Jaws 2, so stay tuned for that. And you're not going to see me on this podcast till next Sunday. So enjoy the rest of the week.

• 1:42:44Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.