91 From Jobless to World Record Holder and Fitness Empire with Chalene Johnson

"If you align your priorities in such a way that puts people first, everything beings to make more sense." - Chalene Johnson Get all the links mentioned in the show and connect with us. We would love to hear from you. LewisHowes.com/91 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 91 with Shaleen Johnson.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I love you guys. And it means a lot to me that you are a subscriber, that you follow the podcast. We are on episode number 91, almost to 100. And in this episode, I have got a new friend of mine, her name is Ms. Shaleen Johnson on. She's a New York Times bestselling author. She's a world record holder for infomercials in the fitness space, and she's just an incredible human being. We cover a lot of different stories about her life and how she's got to where she is. Starting off in the fitness space and then growing to the business space, having the family, the husband, everything included.

• 1:12Lewis Howes?

  And how to have it all. We talk about it all in today's episode. And I did a workout with her recently and she kicked my butt in her garage gym and just had a lot of fun with her. So I'm excited to introduce you guys to her because she's an incredible person and I think you'll get a lot out of this episode. And without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only Shaleen Johnson.

• 1:42Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Super pumped today. Got a new friend on, Ms. Shaleen Johnson. What's up, Shaleen?

• 1:49Speaker 01

  What's up?

• 1:50Lewis Howes?

  I guess Mrs. It's not Miss because you're married, right?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  I don't know. I just filled out a form and I put Ms. I'm not sure why. I'm like, why am I a Ms.?

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  You've been married for 19 years.

• 2:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I got to meet your incredible husband.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:05Lewis Howes?

  And we got to connect earlier this week in Laguna at your place at the most incredible garage gym I've ever seen in my life.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 2:13Lewis Howes?

  I was so inspired. I'm like putting pictures of it in my vision board to have that. When I actually get a home and not uh just bounce around from place all over the world, but.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had Pinterest boards all over for that gym.

• 2:26Lewis Howes?

  Did you?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27Lewis Howes?

  It's literally like the coolest gym ever. I'll post a picture in the show notes. It's got like huge speakers and uh spinning bikes and chains and battling ropes. And it's like a ballet room with mirrors and then it's like this CrossFit room. It's really cool.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  So what inspired you to create that in the first place? Like in having your own home and not go to a gym? Cause you said you used to have gym memberships, right?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I um, well, fitness is my drug. It's, it's also, you know, how a lot of people know me, but it was just kind of by accident because I never intended to be in the fitness space, but I, I love it and it is truly my drug. It's, and for a lot of reasons, I have made the best friends in the world. Somehow related to fitness, you know, like, or they, it's like all my closest friends have this passion for um just sweating. And, and so I used to go to the gym and I don't know, I guess because of my industry, I also felt like I was also working sometimes at the gym. People would be like, hey, I was wondering, can I ask you if, fill in the blank?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  And um, I like to do weird things and do headstands and, and uh I just would travel and visit gyms and I would say, wow, I want green turf like that and I want a big tire like that and I want chains like that. And, and I just kept creating these boards on Pinterest and once we uh kind of changed directions of our business, we created it.

• 3:47Lewis Howes?

  That's so cool. I love it. Now you are known as like the infomercial, uh fitness infomercial, like queen, basically. I think, I think I read somewhere that you have the world record for the most infomercials or something like that. Is that true?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have the, the world record holder for the most uh fitness videos.

• 4:06Lewis Howes?

  The most fitness videos.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  I know, that's so bizarre.

• 4:08Lewis Howes?

  And I was actually just watching, I've never seen any of your videos, so I just was watching, I was like on YouTube because my, my assistant's like, oh, you're going to see Shailene? I used to do Turbo Jam back in the day with these like weights on my hands or something. And I was like, what?

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  And uh, I guess I just don't, uh, it's just not my target audience, right? But I I started watching your videos just before this and I was like, these are incredible.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  I was

• 4:35Lewis Howes?

  There's one that says, what is turbo jam? And I was like, I was, it's a really good video. Actually, I was like, I was like, I want to do kickboxing workouts. I was like, this is cool. So what um, so the

• 4:48Speaker 01

  And you know, what's funny is I hold the world's record for being in the most fitness videos. But when I first thought that I wanted to teach fitness classes, I couldn't get hired. Because I was so bad and I knew I was bad, but I I knew that I loved it and I knew I could learn to be good, but I also knew I was bad.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  What were you bad at? Was it actual like the technique?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  I guess it was everything because I would go on auditions and they would go, oh, you kind of like, you know, pat me on top of the head like, oh, you sweet thing. You don't hear the beat and you don't cue well. And, you know, the choreography didn't flow. And I was just like, oh, but I love it. I want to be good at this.

• 5:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so you you started doing auditions for fitness videos. Why did you start doing it?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  No, dude, I'm not even talking for videos. I couldn't get a job at the gym for 12 dollars. No.

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh. To be like an instructor, you mean?

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 5:43Lewis Howes?

  Ah, so you were doing auditions to be an instructor at gyms?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was working as a paralegal and I just, I just wanted to do that in the evenings because it was fun. And I had to work so hard just to get hired and I just set a goal for myself to be great at it and to take other great instructors locally and in Southern California and to learn from them. And I think in the process of just trying to get hired to teach a class, I really honed in my skills and and that's kind of how I ended up in in videos.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And so you were doing, you you got, you became an instructor at a gym locally in Southern California somewhere first? And then I wonder, how did you get your first video opportunity?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Uh, well, you know, I've always been an entrepreneur. So I, you know, was kind of a serial entrepreneur. And once I got hired to teach, I realized, gosh, I'm working full time. And then I'm, I'm

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  During the day, you're a paralegal during the day, right?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yes. And then I, I have this thing that I love, but man, I'm not, it's a, it's a losing cause. It was so expensive to teach because you'd have to buy music and have it back then, have a DJ cut it up for you. And then you'd have to practice your routines and make sure they work and

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And just hours worth of all these things to be good enough here in Southern California, just to have a class. I would spend like five and six hours to prepare for a one hour class.

• 6:59Lewis Howes?

  And you're only making like 50 bucks a class or something, right?

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Not even.

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  I was, I was, I think when I started, I was like, maybe just above minimum wage.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow. And there's like, what, 10, 20 people in a class, more or less?

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, here it's different. So there would be like 50 to a hundred people in the class. But it was, I knew it was a losing cause and I, you know, like all things, I thought, well, there's, there's a solution here. And my mom used to teach jazzercise when I was growing up. And I thought, you know, that model was so easy for her. I remember she would be shipped the choreography, the music, the routine. I'm business minded. This would solve a problem for me. I'm going to create a little routine and music. And hopefully other instructors will find that useful and that it will solve a problem for them. And, and it turned into a multimillion dollar business.

• 7:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So that's what created Turbo Jam? Or was that something afterwards?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  That created a certification company where I was certifying fitness instructors. And we started an apparel company that caught the attention of infomercial companies. It was because it was right about Tybo Windsor Pilates

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  time. And so everyone was looking for the next health club program. And, and so we, we did, Turbo Jam was my first infomercial that went to number one. Uh, so that was my first taste of working with consumers, which I love working with consumers. But working with instructors really prepared me for that because, um, because they're like me. They're, they're finicky. We don't make a lot of money. We do it because we love it. And so working with customers who, you know, were very demanding and didn't have deep pockets, prepared me to over-deliver.

• 8:38Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, interesting. Wow. I love this. So what does it mean to be number one, like the number one infomercial? Is that during a certain time period? Is that amount of sales? Is that amount of times it's being run? What does that mean?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's it's a number of sales. Um, yeah, and there's lots of different metrics. Uh, it's number of sales and in view, it's the number of times people are seeing it. Uh, there's all kinds of metrics that go into it, but it's a tough space to make it in now just because of TV.

• 9:07Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. And so you, after, how many years were you doing infomercials for?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  I think I started in 2006. You know, when you first just said, um, what does it mean to be number one infomercial? You know, the first thought that popped in my head was there is no place but down. Like, that's a scary thing, you know, when you're number one, you're like, there's, I can't go up from here. I can only go down.

• 9:29Lewis Howes?

  Or stay there.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Or stay there, which is tough to do.

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So 2006 is when you started?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  And then it was around for what, four or five years or something until it started to go down or?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Uh, no, you know, infomercials, I think that one lasted for about two years. I mean, it still runs from time to time. Turbo Jam still is still a very popular program, but it, um, then my second program was Shaleen Extreme. And that was...

• 9:56Lewis Howes?

  That's a good name.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Thanks. I, um, that was bizarre. Uh, yeah. So Shaleen Extreme was my second program and that was a real learning lesson because it was not a number one hit. And that was, that was, that was rough.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  So you're expecting to come out, you're on top, you're like, I'm gonna come out with another one. It's gonna be an automatic hit because I

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:14Lewis Howes?

  know people love me and I'm incredible. So let's just make it number one right away. And it, what, it flopped or it was just kind of average?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  No, it flopped. I mean, what, you know, I, Turbo Jam was number one and I, I just didn't put much into it other than just, this is what it is. Here we go. And I thought, okay, now I, now I can see. The possibilities and I'm I'm gonna take everything off my plate and I'm gonna step outside of my business and really focus on this next program, Chalene Extreme, and it's gonna be a movement and we're gonna teach women that they need to lift heavy to change their bodies and not to be afraid of lifting heavy and you won't bulk up and and I'm gonna dispel the myths and um that didn't go so well.

• 10:57Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  It it just didn't work on TV, you know, we had these big weights and at the same time, you know, most celebrities were saying, you know, just take your arms out to the side and twist them back and forth like you're screwing in imaginary light bulbs and that will build muscle, which we all know it doesn't, uh but that that didn't appeal to consumers. The consumers weren't ready for that message yet.

• 11:18Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  And so Beachbody is an amazing company. Any other company, if I had signed with any of the other five suitors who wanted to sign us, um it would have been one test and you're done. They invest a million dollars, they they they roll out a show and if after two or three weekends it's not resonating with consumers, they dump it and they move on to the next. Well, Beachbody tested it for over a year and every Monday morning I would, you know, cross my fingers and get that phone call from product development, hoping that they would say, okay, we've got a little glimmer of hope because they can keep tweaking the show. They can move this testimonial here and they can shift the offer and we can show, you know, less of you doing this and more of you doing that and week after week after week,

• 12:00Speaker 01

  they just kept pouring money into it and week after week after week, I just felt like more of a disappointment to people.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  It was rough. It was really a lesson.

• 12:10Lewis Howes?

  Well, more they, so Turbo Jam, was that through Beachbody or was that yourself that produced it?

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Uh Turbo Jam, I did with Beachbody. They were my partner on that. They eventually, um we also did Turbo Fire, which also ended up being a number one infomercial hit. So I was like, oh, okay, okay, so, but again, it didn't last for nearly as long as Turbo Jam and by then I'd already learned my lesson that I need to, um. I I need to develop something that really is where I have more control. Cause that's a partnership and then we also sold our certification company as well as our apparel company to Beachbody. So we're still partners.

• 12:49Lewis Howes?

  Sure. But you wanted to diversify.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  I wanted I wanted my own business that wasn't as tied to fitness.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  Got you.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Cause I've always felt that fitness was kind of I accidentally stumbled into it.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  Well, you accidentally did extremely well. It sounds like. I mean, it says on your site, you sold over 10 million DVDs.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:11Lewis Howes?

  And I mean, to think about that, that you know, it's a it's a big number, but just to think about it, 10 million different people took out their credit card and bought something of yours. That's like, that doesn't, I don't care if you have a business partner or if you've got someone running it with you or whatever it may be, like, so many people will never get to that point. And it's an incredible achievement and it's incredible to understand that you whatever you were doing, it was working. Now, it sounds like you want to try to copy that and continue to doing it, which you have been in doing your own business, right?

• 13:47Speaker 01

  You know, the blessing from doing fitness, which there's there was a moment in time where I tried to separate myself from that identity because, you know.

• 13:57Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 13:58Speaker 01

  I I guess because you think of like an aerobics girl and my degree was in justice morality and constitutional democracy and and I was an entrepreneur and I just didn't feel, I thought, well, maybe people don't know there's more to me than spandex. And so I would try to really separate myself from that identity. And then I realized what an incredible blessing it was to be invited into people's homes and to be along the the ride with them on this journey of transformation and to be with them, like be there with them and help them every single day that I couldn't turn away from it. I had to totally embrace it and realize that's what I want to do is help people transform their lives with a business or understanding their

• 14:42Speaker 01

  priorities and goals and it all relates.

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and we were talking about this when we were hanging out. It's really, you do this with every part of your business. It's like you bring them in one way, but really it's kind of like a Trojan horse to give them everything else they really need. And what they really, what they really want. But the, the hook may be, let's help you lose 10 pounds. But then it's like, let's work on your self-worth and your confidence and this and this, which is what they really need to lose the 10 pounds as well, right?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  It's so true. It's amazing the amount of money people will spend on their bodies and, and how little thought we give to like our relationships or our happiness, you know?

• 15:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. And let's talk about, I want to, I want to stay on this for a moment, but since we just mentioned relationships. Uh, you've been married for how long now?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  I think 19 years.

• 15:29Lewis Howes?

  Think? Doesn't every woman know they're like married, dated, right?

• 15:33Speaker 01

  I know. I, I have to ask him how old I am usually.

• 15:37Lewis Howes?

  Well, you've got the energy of a 15 year old. So, uh, you know, literally when we were working out, I, I had the excuse of saying I was on little sleep and not feeling well. And I actually almost didn't show up because I was like, I feel like crap right now, but I stuck it through and I'm like, how is this woman smiling the whole workout? Screaming at everyone and doing the workout herself. I was like, this is insane how much energy you have and how much passion you have working out. It's, it definitely shows through your energy. So, um, what's it like working with your husband? And working, you know, in a marriage, what's that like working on a business together and being married and raising, you have two children? Uh, and you know, doing it all. What's that like?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  I would call it fun, but I, you know, you've worked out with me. You, you see that I, I find challenging things fun. Like, you know, people will comment on my videos when I'm exercising. They're like, who smiles when they work out? I'm like, I am Elf, like the movie Elf. When I'm exercising, I feel like Elf, like, you know, world's greatest coffee, smiling is my favorite. It just sends off endorphins for me when I'm being challenged and pushed. And it's not easy to work together as partners, but I love it. And I strongly encourage people, even if they aren't in the same business. Like, you know, even if you're completely separate businesses and one's an entrepreneur, or maybe you're both, you know, in corporate America, that you have these opposite strengths.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  In almost every good relationship and to learn to tap into them as opposed to trying to, you know, change your partner, but to like really honor their strengths because it's probably where you're weak, that you just, you just, I don't know, you feel unstoppable.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Now, when did you guys start actually working together? Was, was he working with you on the, the fitness infomercial business as well, or did it more start transitioning when you're, started your own business?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  It was, uh, it was a difficult transition. It's one of the things that we coach, um, couples who are, you know, one of them's an entrepreneur now anyways, because it was not easy. We, he had a full-time job and he's a man and it's his job to provide, you know, in his mind. And I had this kind of, um, trendy, if you will, business model where I was certifying instructors in a format that might go out of style. And I knew, I knew I needed him. I, I wasn't good at running, um, the management of the business, the numbers, the, um, searching for, uh, a better rate on DVDs or on replication and the organization.

• 18:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  The operation.

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  The process, yeah.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  And so we would, and, and then the things I did want to do, he didn't understand why I was spending that money, but he wasn't in the business yet. So it was like from afar, he'd say like, why are you, why do you need to do that?

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  And so it was a difficult transition. Eventually he quit his job. We went to work together full-time in an industry, you know, he's a football player.

• 18:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  He's a coach and, um, he was working at the time with a friend who owned a business. He was just helping him dispatch, but suddenly stepped into my world where I'm the face of the brand and it's fitness and it's women and, and it felt very foreign to him at that time. And he'll tell you himself that he, you know, you, you have the, all the self-doubt, like I, I don't know what they're talking about, but I do know that I can get a better price on this order if we ordered 500 versus 200.

• 19:02Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  And that's just where he started.

• 19:04Lewis Howes?

  Now.

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious about this Brett, you know, it seems like an awesome guy. I really enjoyed connecting with them and look forward to connecting with them more. But I could only imagine for me what it would be like stepping out of a role of working where I was working before and then having this powerhouse wife who's just like, you know, in the homes of tens of millions of people. And all of a sudden trying to jump in her industry. I could only imagine what that would feel like, you know, um, again, as like a provider or wanting to be the provider. Was that complicated? Like for him trying to jump in or were you got, was it, did it challenge the marriage at all? Was there stress? Was it?

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 19:45Lewis Howes?

  Did you guys have conversations? Maybe we should keep everything separate with our business and our life.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  We never did that. He, the one thing I will say about most former athletes is they're competitive. It doesn't matter what it is, you know? It's like, and so he immediately tapped into his competitive nature, which was kind of fun. And so he like always wanted to talk about it. Um, and, but it was a struggle because early on there was this, you're not my boss. And you're not my boss and I don't work for you. And, and we did marriage counseling. I will openly share that because I encourage people to do it because you, you know, you go to a dentist to have your teeth fixed. Why not go to an expert to help you navigate these things? You know, we all have these childhood experiences that affect the way we let

• 20:28Speaker 01

  everything today affect us and we, we bring that forward with us. So it's great that we were both on board and we often will see a marriage counselor or just, you know, to have that third party. Yeah, totally. And I, you know, in that environment, I learned that I was saying things that were hurtful to him. Like I would say, um, well, my business or one of the things I did in my business, but it was our business. So I had to learn new terminology and he had to learn to, um, You know, tell me when there were things that upset him and and kind of find a softer way of disagreeing and it's been a learning process, but so rewarding, so rewarding.

• 21:13Lewis Howes?

  Because with that language, it probably sounds like, you know, if I was in his shoes, it'd probably sound like we were competing against each other as opposed to being on the same team, if it's your business and or whatever, right?

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, or so that one person, you know, I don't know, maybe people will disagree with me, but I think there is something to our biological nature where the man wants to provide and to protect.

• 21:35Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  And you're not feeling that if wifey is like, you know, wagging her finger in your face and telling you what to do and being the boss.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  Bringing in the bacon.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I had to, you know, I read every book that I could on on how to make him feel like a million bucks so that he I could bring out the best in him for our marriage, for our business, and to learn to, you know, because I can be bossy pants, you know? So I had to like roll that back a little bit.

• 22:03Lewis Howes?

  This is interesting. I think this is actually really valuable to talk about for a moment with in regards to women in relationships that want to start their own business or that want to continue to achieve a higher goals financially or in a company, whatever it may be. I feel like some women, I've heard conversations with some women who feel like when they're in a relationship, they don't want to continue to get a higher status in their company or be successful because they feel like it's putting a man underneath them or they feel like they're, I don't know the right terminology, but basically not allowing the man to feel as powerful and as strong as he should be or something.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's honoring your relationships, even in some cases where I've heard, you know, men, the way they refer to their wives when they're home managing the household and the children and just the terminology that we use can can either be hurtful or helpful.

• 22:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, transformation is definitely in the language and what we speak and how we speak into it. So what do you, what do you recommendations do you have for? Women who want to be successful, that want to honor their self-worth and want to continue to grow, to achieve higher goals and whatever it is they're in, in a relationship. And maybe they're feeling like they can't continue to be successful if it's going to be more successful than their man. What advice would you give or thoughts or feedback would you give?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  I'll just put it out there. I haven't met somebody in that mind frame, but I've met way too many women who are on the brink of divorce or recently divorced, and men too, where there was a shift in power. Like when they came together, this person was a breadwinner and then they start the secondary business and perhaps it's because I work with entrepreneurs, where there's a shift in change in power, which changes the dynamic of the relationship and it doesn't need to. And then I will find that they just don't quite know how to navigate that and then the success becomes almost addictive and they make the success seem more important than the relationship. And not intentionally,

• 24:10Speaker 01

  I just think that happens accidentally, but it can be avoided. It's true, even when sometimes when I'll see one partner losing a lot of weight and the other partner starts to sabotage and say mean things or just do things that aren't supportive.

• 24:26Lewis Howes?

  Or whatever, right?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that comes from a place of fear.

• 24:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Insecurity and fear, right?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. You fear that you're going to lose that special place in your partner's life.

• 24:38Lewis Howes?

  So what should that person do when they start to feel that fear that they're going to lose something?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  This is my opinion. If your relationship is more important than your bank account, then I wake up every day and I say, how can I make my husband feel important, valued, respected, noticed, appreciated, adored, honored? And if I do that, I choose better words. I'm more careful about the timing of when I talk to certain, you know, things with him based on, you know, his stress level and what he's got going on. And I just had to learn, it's not all about me.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow, a lot of women can listen to that lesson there.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know if people watch reality TV. I'm completely obsessed with it. Just, I know, you know, don't judge me, but I just love some good train wreck TV.

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I used to watch Bethany on, on New York Housewives when she was, her business was just taking off. She had all these businesses and I could see that that was happening. Suddenly, her husband was now the secondary bread earner or was almost becoming her assistant. And I could see all of these dynamics happening on TV. I'm like, let me help them. Let me help them. And she, you know, I, I, I really believe I could have saved that marriage.

• 25:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What would you have, what would you have advised her on?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  I would advise her to man it down a little bit. You know, she was, she was just, I, I hope she's listening. I really felt like she was making him feel like this was hers. And she was the all and powerful and you could just feel his self-worth getting lower and lower and lower each episode. And I know she wasn't doing it intentionally. She just wasn't aware of how important it was for him to feel like a provider.

• 26:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I'll definitely, you know, speak into that, that as a man, or at least I'll speak about myself, the, the thing that I want the most in a relationship is to feel acknowledged, seen, and like I can, like respected. That's really it. And taken care of, just like have, you know, emotionally taken care of. And it's pretty simple. But if, when that's taken away, or when that's not there, then I don't feel, I don't feel seen and loved and respected. It's, it gets really challenging to, to communicate and to have a relationship and want to create something with another person. And it's funny, you talked about words and using words, because I, I believe my, my, it's so hard for me to say girlfriend. I would always say special lady friend.

• 27:05Lewis Howes?

  But Jen, who you met, she says, she has a-

• 27:08Speaker 01

  Who said, wait a second. Who says special lady?

• 27:11Lewis Howes?

  I say that.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Like, your grandpa says that, like, until you're married.

• 27:15Lewis Howes?

  I think it's actually more endearing than girlfriend. That's like some teenage, you know, thing or whatever. So I say my, my, my exclusive special lady friend.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  Girlfriend. Girlfriend, sure. But she says that she actually has an alarm that pops up once a day on her phone, not just for, you know, our relationship, but she's had this for a while that says something like, uh, words matter, or choose your words wisely, or something like that, where for all of her relationships, to realize that they actually do matter.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:49Lewis Howes?

  And to not put people down and or be sarcastic if it's not the appropriate thing. And I think that's important to, to really be aware of.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  I'm working on it. I'm not kidding. I, I know I have, because I'm opinionated and, and I'm only opinionated because I, I love you and I see your greatness. And so I might, I sometimes get mad when I see people like, selling themselves short or calling themselves insecure or labeling themselves a certain way. And sometimes that, that passion that I have comes across the wrong way. So I'm really working on, on staying calm and not being so pushy and, and using gent- gentler, is there more gentle words?

• 28:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, you're from, you're from the Midwest, correct?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Michigan.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  I know. It's, it's just a shame you're from Michigan, except I'm from Ohio, but, uh,

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Well.

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  I won't hold it against you.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  All right.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  Um, but what I'm curious about is because you were, you know, the thing I love about you, we've only hung out for a little bit, but I can read energy pretty well. The thing about you that I love is, I feel like even though you have this big energy, you're very grounded as well. And it's nice to be around people that are grounded. And I, I say it's because we're from the Midwest, but,

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  Um, do you have any daily rituals, like something you do every morning? Um, or every night or throughout the day that you practice to support you and getting to where you want to be? I know you're very focused and driven and motivated in achieving your goals, but what are some things you do daily, uh, to support that?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I have a lot of daily habits.

• 29:24Lewis Howes?

  Spit it. Let's hear it.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Sure. Number, number one is I, uh, work out at 5:30 AM.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Uh, number two is when I drive into my driveway, I create my to-do list and then to-do list for like three other people. I told you I was bossy. And then

• 29:37Lewis Howes?

  Wait, so you created to do this for other people to do for themselves or to support you?

• 29:42Speaker 01

  To support me.

• 29:42Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So people on your team, you're like, I need to do these three things.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I hired a personal assistant for myself and my husband many, many years ago. And I always assumed that an assistant would be able to read your mind and know everything you need to do each day. And I, you know, we just had this really simple system. We use Awesome Note as an app. It syncs to Evernote for all of us. And Kristin, my, I call her my life manager, she's my boss. And I just put like, you know, 10 things I need done that day that relate not to our business, but it's like personal stuff. Like, you know, call and get someone to give us an estimate on the landscaping. You know, double check and see if there's any birthdays upcoming, that sort of thing. I finished my to do list and then I, I have an app in case I forget reminder to start my day with scripture.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  So then from there, I guess throughout the day, you know, I've got a couple of other rituals. I tried to only work from 11 until three because that's where I'm creative.

• 30:37Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  I try to be done by the time my kids are home, although now they're teenagers. So it's like, I'm home sometimes, I'm like, where are they?

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  And then I always am reminding myself, myself that, you know, you ain't all that. You know, I, I don't mean that in an insecure way, like I, you just have to know that the person who is blowing the leaves in front of your home is just as valuable as you are. And, and I think that people, I don't know if they forget it or if it's fear, but they mistreat others. And I, I don't like that.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  That's also the Midwest values, I think, were raised to really, you know, have conversations with everyone and be supportive and, you know.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Totally agree.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  Friendly to our neighbor. You know, I remember growing up in a small town of Delaware, Ohio, and we never locked our doors to, to the home. And my dad just never did it and we never, you know, whether that was ignorant or if it was, you know, trusting, I don't know, but I don't think they do it now, but it's just like, it's the way we did, so.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:41Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. I like the, are there any other rituals? Is there anything you do before you go to sleep?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Um, it's just really important to connect with my family. That's a really important ritual. I, uh, you know, I, I really think it's important that you set what I call personal policies. And that you check them all the time to see, okay, where have I fallen off? Cause you pick up these new habits and new interests, like, you know, I'm like totally obsessed with podcasts now. So, so if I'm obsessed with something, that means that's consuming more of my time and my energy, period. I mean, so it's a zero sum. I've, if I'm allowing that to consume more of my time and my energy and my focus, then I have to scrape something else off my plate. And that doesn't happen by chance. I actually have to look at everything that I do in all areas of my life and say, okay, if, if this is what I'm interested in right now, what am I willing to give up?

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Cause you can't do it all.

• 32:34Lewis Howes?

  Right. So some, so you might be really interested in podcasts for this year, but eventually maybe you're not interested or you find a new interest that you want to start tackling. Then you may have to cut back on some podcasts or something else is what you're saying.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I do, and I give myself permission because I think so many of us feel like, oh no, I can't let go of that because everyone else is still there or still doing this or they're, you know, and I just give myself seasons.

• 32:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I mean, that's another thing in the Midwest. We have those. We don't have, we have those in Los, in Los Angeles or Southern California. Do you miss it?

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  Ah, God, it's the best, right?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  And you know what I also miss? I miss that you don't know if the guy sitting next to you in the restaurant who drove up in a beat up 74 Lincoln, if he's a millionaire or a farmer, like you just, you know, it's just.

• 33:22Lewis Howes?

  Cause they don't, they don't care about, uh, you know.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Appearances that much, like showing off, you know?

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  So true. I mean, there were so many people I knew in Ohio, uh, as I was getting into the business world, who drove always, they always drove like 1995 cars, like older cars that were just average used cars.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:42Lewis Howes?

  Um, and you never really, they were never wearing big watches or anything. It was just like relaxed.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, Louis, you're that way. I told Brett after we spent some time with you, I go, "That's one of the first people I've ever met who knows everyone. You don't name drop, you don't like hold up your resume." And I think it's always so cool when I find out cool things about people from someone other than them.

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 34:09Lewis Howes?

  That's why, well, I appreciate it. Yeah, hopefully I can continue to stay humble my whole life. And make sure to slap me if I ever start name dropping, okay?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  I have to jump to do it.

• 34:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because I'm definitely not perfect. And my ego has taken over many times in the past, so. But I appreciate that. So, I like this app, because I've got an assistant as well, who is incredible. I call her my life manager also. It's funny, we call them the same thing. But what was the app you mentioned?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  I use Awesome Note, and it syncs with Evernote.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Awesome Note. So, she has like access to your notes as well? She just looks at it every day? Is that what happens?

• 34:44Speaker 01

  So, what she does is your team downloads Evernote. And actually, if you're all on the same cloud, you could all download Awesome Note. But my assistant and a few other virtual people that I work with, they download Evernote on their phone. And then anytime I update a file, which is a to-do list on Awesome Note, it updates Evernote.

• 35:06Lewis Howes?

  Geez, okay.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, in real time.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. I like that. I'll link that up in the show notes. Very cool. What is up next with you? What's your, because you've kind of transitioned out of the, oh, actually, let me ask you about this before we go into that. Because you built this audience, the only way you could really get in front of an audience before was through the infomercial space. You were getting in front of people's eyeballs on TVs every day. And now that you've transitioned out of that being a primary thing, you said it's on there sometimes for Turbo Jam, but it's not yours anymore. You sold that to Beachbody, correct? So, what has it been like transitioning from getting in front of people that way into

• 35:50Lewis Howes?

  now into social media? Because you have a very large, engaged, and active following all over the place, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, YouTube. What's it been like for your business? How's the transition been building your own audience, I guess?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Rewarding, that's the one word I think of is just incredibly rewarding, so fun. It's, it's a process that I encourage everyone to think about for their lives. We always worry about like, you know, what I'm doing now, what I'm going to be doing next. And I think if, you know, you just are always solving your own problems and then looking over your shoulder to tell whoever's right behind you, hey, here's how I just did this. Make sure, you know, I, I hope that can help you avoid stepping in this ditch and twisting your ankle. And, and that's how I see my career and the people that I serve. I call them lifers because we're in this together, we're all going through the same things.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  I might be a couple of steps ahead, uh, like a park ranger, but I'm, I'm in there with you and I'm just a couple of steps ahead. They're growing up with me. Most of my, my now fans that I serve are, are my customers or what I call my lifers have grown up. They started with the transition of a physical transition, like changing their bodies and feeling strong and feeling empowered. And then that turns into an interest in personal development and being better and being nicer and being patient and learning that there's so much more we can be and, and how when you help other people, it just, everything comes back to you tenfold. And, and as I learned that and as I've been humbled and shared that with my, my tribe, my lifers, they, they're growing up in that process and becoming entrepreneurs and learning

• 37:32Speaker 01

  more about internet marketing and whatever I learn next, I'm just going to share with them.

• 37:38Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. And what is the thing that you, what's your vision moving forward for yourself, for your business, for your, for the world?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  I, right now, my vision is to teach people to do less. Yeah. My vision is to teach people how to have better relationships. I know it sounds weird. Uh, I'm not a relationship expert, but I do believe there's a way to teach people what I call a new style of entrepreneurship. See, I grew up in a household where my dad was an entrepreneur and he did everything himself. He cut out little pieces of paper and glued them onto a big giant piece of paper and that was his ad for the newspaper. And, and you know, he drove the truck and he loaded the truck and he, he did everything himself. And when I first started my businesses, I

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Um, believed I was supposed to do everything myself.

• 38:33Lewis Howes?

  That sounds exhausting.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was. It's terrible. It was a prison.

• 38:39Lewis Howes?

  To do it all yourself and to raise two kids and to have an amazing marriage and, you know.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that you can't. You just, you, you can't and, and uh, something has to suffer. Something has to give. And so I, I want to help people understand, A, if you align your priorities um, in a, in such a way that puts people first and everything else second. That's, that's just step one and it makes everything make more sense. You know, sometimes people they'll wake up and they're like, I don't know why I'm unhappy. I drive this amazing car. I live in this amazing home. I've got, I've got all this stuff. Why am I not happy, you know? And I think it boils down to two things. Number one, dealing with your stuff from your past.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  And number two is um, making sure that your value doesn't come from external things. But the way you treat people.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Not necessarily say that you shouldn't have or deserve to get what you want externally.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:38Lewis Howes?

  And create uh, the, the reality of the visions you have for yourself of what you want. If you want a bigger home, if you want to have, you know, an ocean view, if you want to have whatever it may be.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:47Lewis Howes?

  That's not wrong either.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:49Lewis Howes?

  Or bad by any means, because I think a lot of people put uh, bad and money together.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Hmm, hmm.

• 39:55Lewis Howes?

  And uh.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  No, money helps me to take care of people. Money allows me to do things that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do and just help people and, and, and to, it, listen, money makes things awfully convenient sometimes.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  But it doesn't make you more valuable. Or confusing.

• 40:11Lewis Howes?

  If you allow it to be.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it, I just always have to remind myself, it doesn't make me more important and it's.

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  It doesn't make me, um, it doesn't solve happiness.

• 40:22Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't make you happy. It doesn't make, make, automatically give you a great relationship.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:28Lewis Howes?

  Because those things we all have to do, uh, no matter what. I mean, it just doesn't happen when you make money.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  I mean, I know, and I'm sure you do too, people who just have these giant corporations and all these employees. I'm like, I would rather have a gun to my head. That doesn't sound, that's not my definition of success. My definition of success is to wake up and to do what I love to do when I want to do it with the people who I want to do it with.

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and do less of the busy work.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:56Lewis Howes?

  And so for how, how many years were you in this prison, this mindset of I need to do everything myself? And when did you finally wake up to the fact that, well, like something's got to shift because all these things aren't working in my life with this mentality?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  It was a gradual process. I mean, I'd love to make it sound like there's, you know, this one day.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Um, but there were moments where I was like, okay, this is, you know, smacking me in the face. I remember one run, being on a run with my husband Brett. We like to work out together and he doesn't like to run. Uh, but I make him run with me because we have these like really deep conversations when we run. And I just, I remember being on that run and I couldn't breathe because I was crying while we were running. And I just said, I, I can't keep this up. I can't do this, but honey, I don't know what to do. I'm in every video. I'm on every DVD. I'm, I'm in all, I'm everything. And how, how do I, how do I ever make this end? And you know, the only thing I could do was just walk away from it. And he, he just said, well, we'll, when, when we get back home,

• 41:59Speaker 01

  we'll sit down with a piece of paper and a pencil, Shaleen, and we'll, we'll come up with a plan. And we did. And it took about four years to do it. And we couldn't tell anyone what we were doing because I didn't want to jeopardize anyone's belief in what it was. We created this tribe and, um, but we slowly, slowly removed me from the forefront and lifted other people up. And I put other amazing instructors who were much better than me in the videos and I made them the stars. And I, and I started turning things over to people who I just assumed no one could do this the way I do it. And then I just would find after, yeah, they don't do it like you want them to at first, but eventually they do it like a lot better than you. And it took time. It did take time, but it happened.

• 42:43Lewis Howes?

  Right. It's, it's almost like you eventually started to become your own beach body by finding experts to create products around and promoting them. That's essentially what they did with you, right? You were an expert that they promoted and.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and, uh, you know, it, I just wanted to say to anyone who's listening that every, anything and everything is possible with a plan and a plan is no more complicated than a sharpened number two pencil. And you sitting down, spending 10 minutes brainstorming. And that's what we did. We just sat down. We said, okay, how, how do we get out from under this? And we said, what would we want our life to look like? What would we want our day to look like? How many people would we want to manage? What would make us feel fulfilled and happy? And what would we wake up every day and go? This is an amazing life. And what do we hate about our lives right now? And how could we change that? And how long will that take? And what would that process look like? And we just, in no particular order, just brainstormed and brainstormed and brainstormed.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  And then we executed.

• 43:43Lewis Howes?

  I like that. With a lot of the students I work with, the entrepreneurs, I have them do what's called my perfect day exercise first. And I say, if you could have anything you wanted, write out in detail, but kind of also in broad terms, what your perfect day would look like. And it could, it's obviously going to change. It's not going to be the same day every day. But if you could have whatever you wanted to be, what would it look like in broad terms? And then on the second part of the exercise, I have them write out, okay, from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, write out every 30 to 60 minutes what you're going to be doing and with your time. And then look it over and see if that works for you. And if it doesn't, then shift it around.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:22Lewis Howes?

  But you gotta write, you gotta write it out. Otherwise, you're just going to be responding to whatever life gives you.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Louis, what you just said is so basic, but people forget that critical step of writing it down. They're like, I thought it through. It's, it's not the same. You literally have to write it down.

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. What has been, I know we're gonna, I've got a few more questions. You gotta head off to your, your son's varsity football game, first game of the season.

• 44:49Lewis Howes?

  Which is going to be awesome. He's going to rock it.

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  What? You've had a lot of success and you're going to continue to be successful. And you're transitioning into the business world. You've got two podcasts that are in the top 10 of iTunes right now. One's called The Shailene Show. The other one's called Build Your Tribe.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  And they're, they're both awesome. I started diving into The Shailene Show and I told you that I, I don't even listen to podcasts ever. I don't listen to my own. I don't listen to other people's. But yours inspired me to like, because I drove home from Laguna. It was like an hour and 15 minutes. And so I was like, all right, let me listen to this. And I was like, whoa, this is actually really good. Let me, let me download some more and maybe check out a few other shows.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  So you're, you've been transitioning in the business world. And you've been really successful in the past. What is the biggest fear moving forward for you with this new transition and with what you're up to in life?

• 45:41Speaker 01

  I don't have, I don't have fear about the future. I, maybe I should. I, um, I have a very strong faith. So I, I know even if it's uncomfortable, it's happening for a reason. I, I don't mind failure. I've, I've learned so much and I, they, you know what they do? They make for great stories.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  When you have these like really embarrassing failures and I've had a lot of them and they're kind of fun because you get out from underneath it, you dust yourself off and you go, that was pretty funny and I live to tell and I'm going to be better for it.

• 46:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, okay.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  So I, I guess I don't have fear.

• 46:18Lewis Howes?

  So you're not afraid of anything? Okay.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not afraid and I, gosh, I have to give credit to my parents because they just, you know, they, they put this confidence in us where we could try anything and my parents had us try everything. The one thing I didn't learn from my parents, Marj and Bill, who are still together, in fact, they're here visiting me today.

• 46:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Um, is I, I, I never learned focus, how to just stick to one thing.

• 46:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  So I had to learn that after, after college and that made a pretty big difference.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  Right. Did you ever think that your life would come to where it is now? Like you would be doing 10 million DVD sales or sell 10 million DVDs, which is more than $10 million. Um, and that you would be, you know, world record in infomercials, number one, building these huge audiences, having millions of people all over the world following your, your fitness tips, your relationship tips, your business strategies. You've got all these business courses now that are bestsellers. You speak in front of thousands of people. You do yoga. You've got a new, it's called Payo, right? Is that what it's called?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:20Lewis Howes?

  You've got these Payo program that I see on Instagram with thousands of people doing it with you. Did you ever see yourself when you're back in college, doing the paralegal stuff, uh, or after college, that this would be your life? Like that this was possible for you, that you could have it all, uh, in terms of business, success, uh, relationship success, family, everything. Did you ever envision this or did you not even think this was possible for you?

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Louis, I think you, the humble answer is to say, I just never imagined any of this was possible. You know, that, that's the humble answer. The- The real answer is I don't think it can happen unless you can see it even if it's really fuzzy. I didn't know what exactly I would be doing, but I knew I would be helping people. I knew I would be teaching. I knew somehow it would have something to do with music and dance and making people feel good and I loved business. I didn't know the shape that it would take, but I could see it in a fuzzy, you know, distant view. And I believe you have to be able to see it, but not clearly. You just have to be able to see it remotely in the distance in order for it to be possible.

• 48:31Lewis Howes?

  You weren't even getting hired for 20 bucks a class from gyms and everyone was rejecting you. Could you still see this as a possibility when no one even said you were good enough to do one class?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  No, I didn't see this. I saw something else. So I always knew that I always knew I can create a business because I've been doing it since I was 13. So I'd never worried about what it was gonna be. I just always chase my passion, like whatever it is I'm passionate about. I try to figure out where there's a problem or a hole and solve that. And then I just know no matter what that is, it will always serve other people. And because of that, it will take care of me financially.

• 49:12Lewis Howes?

  Was there a defining moment growing up or things that you came across that made you so passionate about being, creating this type of lifestyle and generating this type of results in your business? You know, for me, a lot of the successful people, friends that I know or just people that I hear about, they usually come from some type of experience or multiple experiences where they felt, whatever it may be, less than or not worthy or not accepted or the youngest always having to like fight their way up. Was there something about your experience that made you so driven and committed to your vision no matter what?

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Or are you just a positive, happy person in your life?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  No, I think everyone, like you said, if you ask enough questions and you actually listen, you can find, you can kind of peel back the onion and figure out where that comes from. For me, it was an experience which had a negative effect and a positive effect. I think our challenges can do that for us. When I was in the fourth grade, my dad owned a A company where he would liquidate large department stores when they went out of business and he would buy the the goods inside as well as the fixtures. And we he would go into Detroit and go into the bankruptcy courts and it was extremely competitive and a little shady, I guess. And they were really young, my parents, and my dad, I remember, had spent his last dollar

• 50:45Speaker 01

  acquiring the Robert Hall's department stores. And it was like this, you know, I could just tell it was a feather in his cap and they'd spent their last dollar of savings to to do this. And all of the goods and materials were moved into these giant warehouses in downtown Detroit. And about a day after acquiring them, somebody set fire to the building, to the warehouse. And I remember my dad, at that point, had already taught me a lot about, you know, earning money and and doing things around the neighborhood and starting little businesses. So I had a little savings account and my dad brought me into his office and I remember distinctly sitting down in his sticky brown, big leather chair with these big arms and

• 51:30Speaker 01

  him leaning forward and he was holding my little bank account book. And I know this was meant to be a positive teaching moment, but he said in the most reassuring of ways, "Chalene, your mother and I have had a fire and I'm gonna borrow this money from you and I want to show you how much money we're gonna borrow and I'm gonna pay you back with interest and here's how we're going to pay you back." And they did that. And I know it was intended to be a positive teaching moment for me, but as a child, I

• 52:08Speaker 01

  didn't realize until therapy later that what that did was make me believe that I wasn't valuable unless I could earn money for people, unless unless I could be the provider.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  And from the fourth grade on, I never asked for lunch money. I bought my own clothes. I bought my own car because I felt I wouldn't be important or valuable or worthy. They never said that. And that's just how kids are. They they take messages and they they put whatever meaning to it they they want to. And I I later had to untangle that that message in my own brain. And it was the only thing that saved me from continuing down the path of workaholicism. If I hadn't gone to therapy to figure out why it was I couldn't stop, I would still be on that hamster wheel.

• 53:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay. So you felt like only if you had money or making money that you could support other people with, then you'd feel then you'd be loved by other people or be accepted?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:17Lewis Howes?

  Or yeah, or a value?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  But I didn't I didn't know it. I would just wear this badge of honor like I'm a workaholic and you know, I'm proud. And in fact, I didn't even think about that event until I went. My husband insisted like, you know, you're gonna go talk to somebody about this because Shalina, you're always saying like, when this is over, when this is over, when this is done. And and I don't believe you. And I said, well, I'll go talk to you know, we're both big believers in going to speak to a therapist. So I went to a therapist and I'm like, I'm here just because I am pretty, pretty perfect. And gosh, the only thing I can think of is I'm a workaholic. And boom, I did a little bit of EMDR therapy, EMDR. And like boom, like immediately, that was the first thought that I had. I was suddenly,

• 54:02Speaker 01

  I hadn't had that thought. I hadn't even remembered that moment until I suddenly connected the dots.

• 54:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I think there's, I think that's, you know, true with a lot of people that they suppress or we suppress certain experiences or moments that we don't even think or realize that were really impactful to the decisions we're making now. And if something's not working in your life, then there's probably, it's probably an instance of you holding on to something in the past that you're not even aware of. So I definitely recommend, you know, try checking something out, whether it's what you did or whatever, having to go into a therapist first and just allowing yourself to experience experiences and talk about experiences that may or may not have been holding you back. But That you won't ever know until you start discussing it.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Don't be afraid of it. It will only make you better.

• 54:51Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Yeah. Very cool. I like it. Well, I'm gonna wrap it up with two final questions.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:57Lewis Howes?

  I want to make sure everyone goes to shaleenjohnson.com. That's your main website.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:02Lewis Howes?

  And subscribe to our newsletter. Check her out. I mean, I, since I found out about you, I've now follow you everywhere because it's just fun to catch up with all the different stuff you're doing. You're everywhere. And so go follow her on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. That's kind of the main places. I think you, you're, you're putting stuff out there, but subscribe to the podcast, The Shaleen Show. It's one of the top 10 in iTunes right now. It's really cool. And then if you want to learn more about the business and marketing and social media side of things, then check out Build Your Tribe, which is her other show, which is also in the top 20, I think, right now. So, um, last two questions. One is, what are you most grateful for recently?

• 55:45Speaker 01

  I, gosh, I, I am so grateful for people in my life who will, um, speak to me and ask me questions so that I know they have my best interests and, and will help me think through decisions before I make bad ones. I'm, I'm thankful that I have people in my life who care enough about me to share their opinion.

• 56:08Lewis Howes?

  And the final question, which I ask everyone, is what is your definition of greatness?

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Ah, shoot. You know, we talked about this, my husband and I. Um, my definition of greatness is just to be fully, um, I, I think people who have greatness are obsessed with just being a better person. I think that's greatness. And you can see greatness in sports and athletics and, and in business. But I think greatness in all of those areas comes when somebody just wants to be better.

• 56:45Lewis Howes?

  Shaleen, I acknowledge you for the big game that you're playing in the world, for your commitment to transformation in people's lives, for your dedication, for your vision, for your unwavering confidence in terms of going through the process to make something better in your business, in your life, in your relationships, and your commitment is incredibly inspiring. So I acknowledge you for all the things you're up to and for being, for the most important thing, being an incredible mother.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Aww, that's the ultimate compliment. You know, that's the only time someone's ever said that in a podcast. You're gonna make me cry.

• 57:27Lewis Howes?

  Well, it's true. I think, you know, just being in your home and seeing what you're up to and the love that you have in your space. I can only imagine what it would be like growing up as, you know, in your family. So I acknowledge you for all those incredible things that you are. So, thank you.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  You're a big teddy bear. I love you. You're awesome.

• 57:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, thanks for coming on.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Such an honor.

• 57:54Lewis Howes?

  And we'll talk to you soon.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Bye, everybody.

• 58:03Lewis Howes?

  I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Thanks so much, Shaleen, for coming on. And if you did like this, then go ahead and post over on Facebook, on Twitter, and leave a comment over at lewishouse.com/91. We've got all the show notes over there, the links, the videos, the images of me working out in Shaleen's gym over there also. And make sure to follow Shaleen over on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. She's got a huge following on Facebook and on Instagram. So go ahead and check out her videos, her fitness tips, and all that other good stuff that she has. You guys know what time it is? It's time to go out there and do something great.