“The Church Is Under Attack” - Dr. Taylor Marshall EXPOSES Islam, Feminism, Porn & Cultural Collapse | PBD Podcast | Ep. 615

Dr. Taylor Marshall joins Patrick Bet-David for a hard-hitting conversation on the spiritual war facing the West. He breaks down how Islam, radical feminism, and porn culture are fueling the collapse of Christian values, and why the Church is failing to fight back. From woke theology to moral decay, Dr. Marshall exposes the forces eroding masculinity, destroying families, and threatening Western civilization. ----- Ⓜ️ MINNECT WITH DR. TAYLOR MARSHALL: https://bit.ly/4lp74DJ 📕 DR. TAYLOR MARSHALL'S BOOK "CHRISTIAN PATRIOT": https://bit.ly/4nMgo6a 💻 DR. TAYLOR MARSHALL'S WEBSITE: https://bit.ly/3TBNnfP 🎫 THE VAULT 2025 | SEPT 8TH - 11TH | THE GAYLORD PALMS | ORLANDO, FL: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4dJlmfL⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4dJlmfL 🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4jYg3Lh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4jYg3Lh 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  And Christians are like, okay, we'll take that deal. But what we didn't realize is there's a new secular religion. They say they're not a religion.

• 1:06Patrick Bet-David?

  How do priests, pastors, fight against that?

• 1:08Speaker 02

  It's just not enough to send in the Sunday School anymore.

• 1:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think Christians and many Catholics are afraid of the religion of Islam?

• 1:15Speaker 02

  If you speak against it, you are racist, you are fascist. They just hit you with it every single time.

• 1:21Patrick Bet-David?

  You're seeing in your area, Plano, where they're building the Epic Center. Our system and our constitution has left it open for them to be able to come and infiltrate if they want to.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  If things stay the same, we lose.

• 1:33Patrick Bet-David?

  The rise of Israel, Hamas, the controversy. Where are you at?

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Financially and militarily support Israel. That's a new doctrine. It was popularized in the early 1900s by the Schofield Bible. So this whole theology comes from kind of a dark place.

• 1:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you been following Rogan? Talking about he's going to church?

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have. There is an end to degeneracy. You can only be so gay, so many genders, so, you know...

• 2:00Patrick Bet-David?

  You can only be so gay? Is that what you said?

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03Patrick Bet-David?

  You can only be so gay?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Watch this. I can't even believe I'm showing this with Doc. It's not even in my notes.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you ever heard this before?

• 2:11Speaker 02

  I've never heard that before.

• 2:12Patrick Bet-David?

  I just heard this last week. I never knew about this. Rob, have you ever heard this before? The bigger and bigger life God, I realize there's no way in the world I can do anything big by myself. The number of miracles that's happened, I can't take credit for that.

• 2:39Speaker 04

  My handshake is better than anything I ever signs, right here.

• 2:43Patrick Bet-David?

  You are a one-on-one?

• 2:44Speaker 04

  My son's right. I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 2:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Dr. Taylor Marshall, how are you?

• 2:54Speaker 02

  I'm great. Good to be here.

• 2:56Patrick Bet-David?

  It's great to have you on.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:57Patrick Bet-David?

  I've seen a lot of your work.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:59Patrick Bet-David?

  And our guys, you're big fans, you know, the way you break things down and I really like the way you communicate. I found out a few things about you. We are seven months apart. Six and a half months. You're older than me. Just so you're the senior here.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  I got more gray.

• 3:14Patrick Bet-David?

  March 29th, yeah. I'm October 18th. You got eight kids.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:19Patrick Bet-David?

  With you and your wife.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Respect. You got a PhD in philosophy, right? I think from University of Dallas.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 3:28Patrick Bet-David?

  And then you went from the being a priest in the Episcopal Church to being a Catholic.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:35Patrick Bet-David?

  How did that happen?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I wasn't raised any religion. I think we, you know, we celebrated Christmas and Easter, obviously, but we never went to church. I wasn't baptized, had no religious formation. And when I was a kid, my best friend told me, he's like, hey, I just want you to know you're going to hell. And I was like, why am I going to hell? And he said, because you're not baptized. You're not a Christian. And I was, as a kid, I didn't know what a baptism was. I didn't know any of this. But it kind of started making me think about, okay, well, who is God and heaven and hell and all that?

• 4:07Patrick Bet-David?

  How old were you at the time?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Probably around like eight.

• 4:11Patrick Bet-David?

  So is mom and dad, are they church going? Are they heavenly? Not at all. Okay. It's a regular family.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, an American family. I mean, if you'd asked us, what are you? We would've said Christian, but we never went to church in any tradition. So I was a huge Texas Ranger fan as a kid. And sometime when I was around 12 or 13, my dad got me all the autographs of the Texas Rangers. And one of them, it was Darryl Porter. He was the catcher for the Rangers. He wrote his signature and under his name, he wrote Romans 10:9. And I thought, oh, he's, he's trying to like, send me a code or this, you know? So somehow I found out that was a Bible verse. I looked it up and it says, um, if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you'll be saved. And I was like, oh, here's this easy way. Like Darryl Porter from the Texas Rangers has told me.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  So I, I think I said my first prayer, probably at that moment. And then just began a journey of, you know, reading through the Bible several times and, and eventually I became a Protestant minister, a Episcopalian priest. And I was doing a lot of pro-life work and reading, you know, getting to know people and reading a lot of theology. And, and in my pro-life work, I kind of realized that when people would push back, you know, I could use philosophy or some Bible verses, but I always noticed that the Catholics were always out in front of the Planned Parenthood praying. And I got to know some Catholics and I was like, they got a catechism, they got a pope, they got encyclicals, they got all these like extra tools. And so as I prayed about it and discerned, um, eventually went to Rome and I was at a mass with Pope Benedict.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  And early that day, I'd been able to go below the altar in St. Peter's. And that's where, according to tradition, St. Peter's buried. And just had this very deep conviction that this is where I need to be. It kind of fits, you know, everything that I've longed for from a child praying, trying to discover. And so, um, my wife and I converted, we had four children at the time, we have eight children now. She's a huge PBD fan. She's like, she's like a day one PBD.

• 6:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Get out of here.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  I've been hearing for years, PBD said this, PBD said that. So I know she listens to your show all the time, listens to mine. So we got a good matchup. Um, but yeah, we have eight children and we live in Texas and, um,

• 6:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Good for you guys.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Eight.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Eight kids.

• 6:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Or you guys gonna go two more, double digits?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  I don't think we're gonna have any more. Nature has tapped us out.

• 6:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, I got you.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:30Patrick Bet-David?

  I tell my wife, I said, babe, one more for five, babe. One more for five. She's like, you're not doing it.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  We gotta get the birth rates up.

• 6:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, no, listen, we're helping out. You're at eight, I'm at four.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  I know.

• 6:39Patrick Bet-David?

  The guys that want to. We gotta get more to guys that want to have the fours and the eights.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:43Patrick Bet-David?

  But okay, so that's interesting, the story, because typically you'll hear the other way, Ron, you don't hear. You know, Episcopal to Catholic, you'll hear sometimes Catholic leave to the non-denomination, whatever the non-denomination would be. For you, was it, how much of it was mainly, when you're seeing that Catholics were showing up outside of pro-life, outside of, you know, the, what do you call it, Planned Parenthood? How much of it was that? How much of it was friends around you? How much of it was certain system, structure, organization that kind of fit into your personality? How much of it was, which one of those?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  I'd say it's 100% theology. Reading sacred scripture, I think, you know, when I was a teenager, and I didn't go to any church, we didn't go to church. So, you know, someone said, well, here's the Bible, and I think like, you know, I read it through three times, and I was just an avid reader. And then, reading church history, the church fathers, you know, since I didn't grow up in a tradition, I was always sort of open, you know, what's a Methodist believe, and a Lutheran, and the Bible church, and, you know, trying to figure out, you know, who had the right take on it. Because I also kind of had this feeling that, or this call that I should be in ministry or a pastor, but then I was like, well, do I join the Methodist, or the Baptist, or the Assembly of God? I don't, I don't know. So I was always sort of exploring it.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  And for me, when I started reading the early church fathers, so these are the men who took over after the apostles. I started reading them, and they were, you know, they were talking about, you know, the Eucharist, and the body and blood, and bishops, and priests, and deacons, and I thought, well, that hasn't been my experience, that sounds kind of Catholic. But as I explored that, you know, and started reading the church fathers, and getting into the first century, second century, third century, I was moving along that way. You know, the Episcopal Church is already kind of, you know, in a way, traditional with its liturgy, and, and, you know, comes from the Church of England. So it kind of has a Catholic ethos and a Catholic aesthetic to it. But I think what I was missing was really the theology of it.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  So, I think it was, it was that process, and then I think the emotional part that pushed me over was realizing, you know, if we're going to be solid on thou shall not kill, and protecting the unborn, and protecting the vulnerable, and the Catholics are doing a great job on that. So that was sort of the emotional push to leave where I was at, which was very difficult. I mean, I had, I'd been ordained, I was in a, I was in a church, congregation, a parish. I had people, I had all this going on and so to, to walk away from that was, was extremely, extremely difficult for me. But, you know, I say it's like the Pearl Great Price. I've been just so blessed in being a Catholic and the seven sacraments and I mean, I've

• 9:26Speaker 02

  been Catholic almost 20 years now and still learning more. Just in Rome, a couple of weeks ago, got to see the Pope three times and this time- How was that? It was amazing, yeah. I mean, the, the last Pope was, was kind of trailing off on popularity. He wasn't doing so well, we could talk about that. Um- He was interesting. He, that's, yeah, he's interesting. Uh, I wrote a, a number one bestselling book called Infiltration, of which talks about him quite a bit and I met him and gave him the book. Um, it's quite critical of Pope Francis, the previous Pope. Um, but now, I was amazed, like, the crowds in Rome are huge. I mean, he's out there in the Pope Mobile and it is just packed out there. Why do you think that is?

• 10:08Speaker 02

  I think people, including myself, were very disappointed with the previous Pope. I think there was a lot of hurt, a lot of misunderstanding. And just to have a fresh, new face, uh, in the white, in, in the Pope Mobile, I think there's a lot of optimism. I mean, the jury's still out, uh, but I remain prayerful and op- you know, optimistic. But yeah, it was great. I mean, uh, for me, going this time, I've been about eight times and we went to the catacombs and you go down there and they say there's a hundred thousand Christian martyrs buried down there. A hundred thousand. There's 500,000 Christians, a hundred thousand people killed for Christ. Wow. And you just go in there and you're literally just touching their tombs. And there's full size and then there's even like little, yeah, there it is. Yeah, we

• 10:53Speaker 02

  were in that one right there. And there's even little ones for children down there. And you're just thinking to yourself, these people, like, their Christianity, their experience of Jesus Christ is so much more profound. Like, I felt just lukewarm, weak, weak sauce Christian down there because, you know, when they're going to church on Sunday, that could be the last one. Like, they could be stormed in. And that was the story of thousands of thousands of early Christians. So, to be down there and to experience that, to actually touch it- Was very humbling and makes me realize.

• 11:27Patrick Bet-David?

  You, this was your first time, you've never been there before?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  No, I've been, I've taught in Rome, I've been there a lot.

• 11:31Patrick Bet-David?

  No, but the hundred thousand.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  I've been to one of the catacombs, this was the catacombs of St. Calixtus. One of the bigger ones.

• 11:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  I think it's like ten miles of catacombs, all underground, like an anthill.

• 11:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think it's easier to be a Christian today or two hundred years ago, hundred years ago? What do you think?

• 11:49Speaker 02

  I think hundred, two hundred years ago.

• 11:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  The pressure on us, especially young people, I think really like teenagers, twenty year olds. The culture is so opposed to Christian faith, a Christian belief, right now.

• 12:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Wouldn't that make it harder today than two hundred years ago?

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, that's what I meant, sorry.

• 12:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you meant it's harder today than before?

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Harder today.

• 12:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Harder today.

• 12:14Patrick Bet-David?

  So, and can you unpack that, go a little bit deeper into why you think it's harder today than two hundred years ago?

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we have children and you just think about if you grew up a couple hundred years ago, you were in a cohesive. If you're in the West, you're growing up in a cohesive Christian society. Your school, your teachers, your friends, your family, your community, they probably all go to the same church or similar churches. And, and that has a, that has an effect on culture and it has effect on families. I feel now, especially if young people were swimming upstream, you know, they are just bombarded with TikTok and Instagram and social media. And there are so many different viewpoints that are opposed to Christianity that are being thrown in their face. So, you know, they might be exposed to, you know, I don't know, five

• 13:05Speaker 02

  anti-Christian thoughts, moments, whatever, a day, probably even more, actually. And then how much time are we spending with our kids? To teach them, to catechize them, you know, it's just not enough to send in the Sunday School anymore. So we're swimming upstream and, and if you look at the numbers, you look at the statistics. I mean, we're moving into a post-Christian society and young adults are not identifying as much. Now, those numbers have leveled out this year. We're seeing a lot of decline. Now we're starting to see a flat line with young adults. So that's a good sign, but it's still not great. You know, it's still not positive. It's not up and to the right.

• 13:43Patrick Bet-David?

  How much you think, uh, propaganda's been around for a long time, right? How much of propaganda you think was more used 200 years ago, 100 years ago versus today? What's easier? The usage of propaganda for and/or against a church, a religion, anything?

• 14:03Speaker 02

  The power of propaganda, humans haven't changed and power structures haven't changed. So I think propaganda, whether you're defining it good or bad, I think has an equal power. It's just that now I think we're in the minority culturally speaking. So we don't, we don't have the, the strength and the influence and the universal presence to, if you want to use the word, propagandize our culture, our society, our young people.

• 14:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I, I, I wonder, I wonder if today, if I'm the enemy and if I am China and I'm going to confuse the crap out of the kids in America, Christianity, faith, whatever maybe, it's so easy to do. It's not hard to do through TikTok, Instagram, all that stuff. So I think the tools to use propaganda, to confuse, to divide, to pin parents against kids, it's a lot easier to be used today and they're so distracted, they're so distracted with. The amount of distractions I have today to keep my head down and read a book versus what I, there's an article that came out from ChatGPT and MIT, I don't know if you saw this or not, MIT did a study.

• 15:11Patrick Bet-David?

  On the power of chat GPT and what it prevents you from doing. Uh, do you have that, Rob, if you can pull, it just came out, uh, three weeks ago. Yeah, right there. Chat GPT may be eroding, uh, critical thinking skills according to a new MIT skill, a new MIT study, and it says it does a few things. The findings they had is the lowest brain engagement based on this EEG scan that they found across thirty-two regions of the three groups, chat GPT, Google and and search and no tools. The chat GPT group showed the weakest overall brain activity, which they're no longer like, what do you think? What do you think? Right? They're going straight to chat GPT. And they kind of explained the mental laziness, uh, soulless writing,

• 15:54Patrick Bet-David?

  poor memory retention, highest engagement from non-AI users. So not using AI. It's easier to have a conversation with them versus the guys that are just going straight on chat GPT. Google outperformed chat GPT. Loneliness correlation programmers also affected children at greatest risk because they're using it a little bit more closely. Comprehension failure. I'm just wondering, the, the, the enemy you have today of bringing people to the Christian church, whether it's Catholics, whatever it is, non-denomination. The enemies today, how different are those enemies than they were even twenty years ago, fifty years ago, a hundred years ago?

• 16:33Speaker 02

  We know Saint Paul says that our enemies are not flesh and blood, but they're the evil principalities, the spirits of darkness. So I think ultimately our enemies is something metaphysical, something preternatural. And we're in a moment where, again, it's not just propaganda against us. It's actually, as the study shows, it's reducing critical thinking, which just makes people weak. It makes them, you know, they're now the prey and it's easier to get them. And it's just like working out, you know, I just saw your amazing gym in here. If you don't work out, you get flabby, you get soft, you can't lift as much, you can't run. If you stop thinking and you actually have chat GPT doing your thinking for you, what's going to happen to your mind?

• 17:15Speaker 02

  It's going to become weak. And then that just opens you up to propaganda of the negative sort.

• 17:22Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you fight? How does the church fight against that? How does, how do priests pastors fight against that?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Well, I've been thinking about that a lot the last couple of years. I wrote this new book, Christian Patriot, 12 Ways to Create One Nation Under God. And it gives 12-

• 17:35Patrick Bet-David?

  We have the link below for people that want to go place the order. It's going to be in the description and in the chat. Please continue.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Thank you for that. I give 12 strategies and a lot of it has to do with understanding culture and that being a Christian is not simply about me and Jesus, my personal relationship with Jesus. That's very important. It needs to be there. There needs to be that faith commitment. There needs to be that daily life. But we also, as Christians going all the way back for 2,000 years, there has always been the element of leaven within the society, lifting up the society. And if you look over the last 2,000 years, where did the universities come from? The church, hospitals, the Catholic Church, orphanages, every sing- oh, human rights, right? Dignity of women. All of these things come. How? How did that happen?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Christians were making a positive impact on society. It wasn't just about going to church. It was about transformation of the person, the transformation of the society. So there's actually a theology of being a citizen, of being a patriot. And it's not just about imposing a faith on a culture. There might be examples of that in history, but in general, it was, we are providing truth, light, love, redemption, salvation. That's attractive to people. And then you implement that in cultural ways that make a huge impact on people. And I think really in, since World War I, World War II, I talk about in the book, people have sort of bought into this

• 19:09Speaker 02

  false deal where after World War II, they're like, hey, you know, we don't want to have any more of these like strong, dogmatic beliefs. Look what happened. We had World War I, World War II. You just keep your beliefs in your closet, keep them out of the public square. And then you just pray and then we're gonna have this rational neutral space in politics, in culture, in film, in art.

• 19:29Patrick Bet-David?

  This is Woodrow Wilson era?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And Christians are like, okay, we'll take that deal. But what we didn't realize is there's a new secular religion. They say they're not a religion, but they have their own dogmas, they have their own clergy, they have their own feast days, they have their own parades, they're at your library reading books. They have a huge religious apparatus. And they say, we're not a religion, we're not a religion, but they are the new secular religion. And that began to take root probably in the 50s, 60s. And I think people of good faith, Christians, were like, yeah, I'm gonna keep my, Christ is important to me, Christianity is important to me, I want to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, but they kept it. And they allowed the public space to be neutral.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  And that vacuum has filled in with a new secular religion, and that's what we're fighting against. So, we should have never taken that deal and we should have filled that vacuum, or never allowed a vacuum to be created. We should have held a Christian standard, Christian excellence, virtue ethics, natural law, all these things that we had enshrined in what we call Western culture, it's really Christendom is the proper term. What we had in Christendom and we've retreated and now we're fighting a huge beast, Goliath.

• 20:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so it's interesting when you're saying, we used to, you know, before we had social programs, you'd go to the government for a social program.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 20:55Patrick Bet-David?

  You got your social program from the church.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 20:58Patrick Bet-David?

  It's where you got it from. Before you needed unemployment, the church gave you the unemployment benefits, right?

• 21:02Speaker 02

  That's correct.

• 21:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Before you needed a place to stay, they got you a place to stay, right? Before you had to go through the government and taxpayers, and it wasn't the taxpayers. All of that was based on 10% of some of the people that were giving willingly and some didn't want to give, and most that didn't give. And you stood with that 10%, were able to get it to take care of your local community until this thing got bigger, thinking we need more money.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  And what's better is, Pat, you could say, well, I have a lot of money, I was raised an orphan or whatever, I wanna support this orphanage. And it was charity, it was actual charity that you were doing it.

• 21:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Totally makes sense.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Or I wanna fund this department at the university, wealthy.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  You know, Christian excellent patriarchs were doing this for centuries and centuries. That's how all these cathedrals were built and universities and town squares and piazzas and all of this beautiful, everyone loves to go to Europe because they love to see all the beautiful stuff. Yeah, that was the church that did that, and that's the way we used to think. And we have retreated and now we have this new secular religion, building ugly buildings and trying to influence our kids through TikTok and take, they're doing their own evangelization. They're doing their own missionary work. And we're, we're sitting here thinking, well, we can't, I don't want to say, I don't want to impose my faith on other people, so I'll just be quiet. Well, we lose that war every time. And again, I'm not talking about coercing people, you must become a Christian or you're going to prison.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  But we still have, it's okay for us to say, okay, well, if you're going to cite, you know, Karl Marx and Shay and all these guys, well, I'm going to quote Moses. I'm going to quote Jesus Christ, Saint Paul, like, let's go. Battle of ideas. That's how we used to be, and we used to be a dominant culture. And, and we haven't even talked about Islam, but that's also, I think, in America, it's this new secular religion. The new secular religion is way advanced in Europe, and now that vacuum's starting to be filled with Islam.

• 22:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think Christians and many Catholics are afraid of the religion of Islam?

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Because historically, it's violent. I know I'm not supposed to say that, it's supposed to be the peaceful religion, but Muhammad was a warrior. You know, if you look at the first 200 years of the growth of Islam, it was a, it was a violent movement. And so that's scary to people, you know? And, and to talk about Christians, you had Charles Martell and Charlemagne and the Battle of Lepanto and Malta and all these things where Christians came together and they said, man, the Turks are at the gates of Vienna. They get past Vienna, they're coming to Rome, they're coming to Paris. And they got together and they went and fought. That's another way of thinking. There's a chapter in the book I talk about, you know, foreign policy as Christians.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Like, do we need to start thinking in terms of foreign policy based on our deepest belief? Because I'm a citizen of the United States. I'm also a Christian. I'm a Catholic. I can't separate church and state. Like, this side of me is my citizenship and this side of me is my soul.

• 24:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that literally where you at? Because that was going to be one of my questions for you. Is that, is that where you are? We're both go hand in hand?

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, there has to be an integration because, look, a government, a society, is a collection of people. Right? And I can't, I can't bracket out the most important thing to me, which is Jesus Christ. I can't bracket that out of my life and be a citizen. Or to be a father, or to be a worker. That is at my core of who I am. And so that is going to, to direct my decisions and the way I run my businesses, my family, the HOA, on and on and on, you know, just ripple it out. And when we did that, were there bad people that abused it? Yes. Were there bad kings or popes? And yes, we've seen all that.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  But I would say the net benefit has been tremendously good for humanity.

• 24:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree. The, the question becomes to isolate this topic of Islam, right? Muslim. And you see stats on what's going on in UK, in Europe, and a lot of different places. And Rob, can you pull up the one chart we showed earlier today about who's leaving UK and different countries and where they're going to their net migration of millionaires? And this is business people that are job creators that you got to look at and say, why are people leaving? So here's a chart. I don't know if you've seen this or not. If you look at this and zoom in all the way to the bottom, okay? Millionaire migration in 2025. Look at UK. They will lose the most millionaires due to sweeping tax changes and the closure

• 25:40Patrick Bet-David?

  of investor visas. On top of that, what is happening over there? The migration that's coming in. And then look at all the other countries you're looking at and go all the way to the top. If you go all the way to the top, it used to be US number one, UAE is number one ahead of US. And you got a few other guys. And new poll came out that CNN was showing, whether it's New York Times, whether it's CBS, whether it's ABC, whether it's anybody, the number one issue for them is immigration to get escorted away in America. They're not comfortable with it. And the pattern you notice is where they come from, because for me, it's very simple. Who moves into what city and what happens to that city? If you're Armenian, Assyrian, white, black, Christian, Scientologist, Muslim, Pakistani

• 26:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Muslim, Shia Sunni, Sikh, you name it, when you move to a city or state or country, does it get better or worse? And if it gets worse, why are we debating it? Why are we sitting there apologizing and making exceptions for it? Why do you think the walk-in on X-shells is so strong when it comes down to the religion of Islam?

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Two things. The new secular religion is pushing this on us as an ideology. Right? If you, if you speak against it, you are racist, you are fascist. They just hit you with it every single time. The second thing, and Europe is way more advanced on this trail than we are, and that is the violent nature of it. I think there is a true fear. Europe has a longer memory than we have in the United States. We've, we've never really gone saber-to-saber with the Turk and the Saracen and the Mohammed. We've never done that. They, they have. France has, Hungary has, Romania has, Greece, all those countries have a national memory

• 27:29Speaker 02

  of saber-to-saber fight with the Muslim. And I think they're afraid. I think they don't, they no longer, their cup is empty. They no longer have the faith of their fathers that inspired them to go out and die outside the gates of Vienna or die outside the walls of Constantinople. They don't, they, they've lost the faith. And so I think when they see the violent enemy, there's just fear.

• 27:55Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you change that?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  You have to convert people. You, you have to create people who...

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Are fully in with the heart and the mind into Jesus Christ, the way, the truth and the life. And then they, they, from that, through a path of discipleship, they begin to be transformed in the way they view the world. It's a worldview change. It's not, it's something that begins through a conversion and then it begins to pour out into the society.

• 28:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, then the, the challenge isn't that we're not converting because we are converting. The Christian world population, what is it? 2.1 billion, two, two, some number like that? Muslim is what? 1.4, 1.5?

• 28:39Speaker 02

  I think it's higher now. I think they're at 1.8.

• 28:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so 1.8, they're gonna be passing us up in no time to where they're going.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  I think 2050 or 2060, they could be hitting parity.

• 28:48Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so you got, uh, population, what is the total population, virtually? Okay. Christianity is 2.3 billion. Oh, shoot. Islam is 2 billion now. Uh, and you got Hindus on 1.2, Buddhism, you got the rest, some Judaism, it's 14 to 15 million. Okay. So if you look at 2.3 billion to 2 billion, uh, go a percentage to look at the percent, we're at 28.8, they're at 25.6. We looked at the numbers, Rob, on how much they've improved in the last 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. You'll notice they went from nothing, 600 million to 2 billion like this. More kids, all this other stuff. So then the question becomes, are we, in, in, in the insurance company, we used to call something fast start.

• 29:30Patrick Bet-David?

  You become a new recruit, we get you licensed, we get you to go out there and start selling. Okay? The same recruit can be fast started by five different people and one can be a lousy insurance agent, one can be okay, one can be good, one can be great, one is a professional. No complaints, no issues, proper business, follow up right way, asking for referrals, respectful, sending letters, sending cards, treating them well, being good citizen in the community where everybody trusts the way you're handling them. So to me then, it isn't necessarily on...

• 30:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Whether we're converting or not, is how soft are the pastors and the priests at church similar to your previous pope that you had? Where they're almost apologetic, hey, they're allowing the transgenders to come into church and get on the pulpit. I don't know if you remember that clip. I'm like, what is he doing? What are you doing having dinner with? This is, this is how it's supposed to look like now that we're supposed to be allowing the standards to be as messy. This was it, I think it was a year ago. Right? A transgender woman to lunch, to, to have lunch with the pope. Rob, where is this, by the way? This is...

• 30:40Speaker 00

  I think it was Italy.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  I'm not sure, I'll have to look.

• 30:45Patrick Bet-David?

  You can keep playing it, Rob. Keep playing it, let me see the clip. So I'm trying to get to the point where to, uh, go a little bit fast forward to see what it is. I'm sure you remember this.

• 30:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:59Patrick Bet-David?

  While this is happening.

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• 32:05Patrick Bet-David?

  So then to me, what ends up happening when I see this? I see you are discipling weak disciples. You're discipling weak by not equipping them with the right questions, approach, fearlessness, yet humility, but humility with certainty, with a certain level of confidence. We don't have that. It's sloppy conversion. It's sloppy divi... And I'm not talking about everybody, by the way. I'm not sitting here saying every church does this, every priest does this, every pastor does this. So the moment there's friction, it's like, "Oh, my God, let me back down. I don't know what to do. I'm just gonna go be a regular guy. I don't want to experience this ever again." Right? So they're not being equipped well.

• 32:50Patrick Bet-David?

  While on the other side, religion of Islam is maybe equipping their people with a little bit more of strength, confidence, and, uh, what's the word? Audacity, and we lack a little bit of audacity. We lack a little bit of that firmness to go out there. That, that, what would you say to this on?

• 33:10Speaker 02

  100%. I, I wrote another book called Infiltration. It's the book most people know me from. And in that book, I give a 200-year history. I say in the 1800s, there was, and I, I prove it historically, and it's in the footnotes, there was, after the French Revolution, there was an intent to infiltrate the Catholic Church and all Christians in general, in order to undermine them from within. And this is what we're seeing on the screen. So when I talk about the new secular religion, or, you know, atheism and transgenderism and all these things, it's not something that's just like, "Here we are, the Christians, here's the Catholic Church, and then here's them, and let's go to war." They're actually inside with us.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  They have infiltrated in and they are working and you see this in government, you see this in Trump's Sure. Right, that's how the enemy works effectively when they weren't, when they lose the external war, they infiltrate and have an internal war. And that's another reason, I think, why we are so weak. 500 years ago, Christendom was united, we had the Protestant Reformation, we split into 30,000 different groups, that's weakness. And then we've had an infiltration in the last couple hundred years since the French Revolution of infiltrating what Jesus calls sheeps in wolf's clothing. They're amongst us, they're deceiving us. And so this puts us in even more difficult situation,

• 34:34Speaker 02

  right? And then, you know, we have Pope Francis, who is making all kinds of questionable statements, policy changes, et cetera. And a lot of this, you know, a little inside baseball in the Catholic Church there is a council, the 21st Ecumenical Council, 1962 to 1965, it was called the Second Vatican Council. And the idea was, hey, humanity's changing, there's, you know, modern advances in society, we're going to the moon, JFK's president, all these things. It's an optimistic, it's a great time, it's pre-Woodstock, you know, it's great. And so this council updated a lot of things in Catholicism. And since then, within the Catholic Church, there's sort of a bifurcated, there's a, there's a division

• 35:17Speaker 02

  on how to approach that. Do we want to update or do we continue with tradition? So like, I would consider myself a traditionalist, but there's also the modernist, and Pope Francis is certainly the modernist. He wants to change with the times, update things, you know, get along with everyone. That's a, that's a method of caving. It is, it's a complete- Backbone isn't there. That's exactly correct. And so, once you give up all your distinctives in order to meet everyone where you are- You have nothing left.

• 35:46Patrick Bet-David?

  How much of that has been a pattern with because you can watch a leader and see their pattern like right now Pope Leo. We can kind of go see some of the things he said in the past. He hasn't said much. He's very.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, uh, uh, he's kept it very, uh, close, uh, to himself, but there's enough where you can find out when they're going through the conclave on the process of it. Who he is. At what point did, did people know Pope Francis was, was he always a little bit too liberal and forgiving and? It's okay. And trying to conform for everybody, allow everybody in, or was there a moment where he had a backbone where he was tough and everybody wanted this guy?

• 36:24Speaker 02

  I remember when he was elected and walked out on the loggia and I just had this bad feeling in my gut. I was like, oh.

• 36:29Patrick Bet-David?

  So from the beginning.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  This isn't good, but I, as a Catholic, you know, he, he is the leader. He's the successor, we believe of St. Peter. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to give him a chance. And that was in 2013. By 2016, 17, I was thinking, this is bad. You know, on my podcast, I started being critical and a lot of Catholics came after me. How dare you say that? He's the Pope and all that. And I said, well, look. We just, we have over 200 previous popes. We have all these saints. We have all these dogmas and doctrine. Let's just compare what he's saying to the massive list of things we have, and it doesn't match up. There's some problems here. Real problems. And I caught a lot of flack on that, but I think, you know, on the other hand, uh, my podcast blew up because I was saying things that people were thinking and struggling with.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  But was actually articulating him in the public and, you know, that's one of the hardest things I think about being a Christian. Uh, particularly being a Catholic is you want to be faithful to God. You want to be faithful to Jesus Christ. But then there's also the leadership, and this is true in Protestant churches too. There's scandals, right? There's the pedophilia abuses. There's embezzlement. I mean, the Cardinal Archbishop of DC McCarrick, Cardinal McCarrick was, you know, doing bad stuff with kids, embezzling money. Fortunately, he got thrown out towards the end of his life, but you've got real wicked people.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Uh, amongst us and, and that's, I think, another huge challenge. You got the enemy without, we have the enemy within. We're two, we're fighting two battlefronts.

• 38:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, the one on the within is the tougher one.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  It is.

• 38:05Patrick Bet-David?

  The one on the outside, it's, it's, you can at least know, you know, one thing with enemies, I trust my enemies sometimes more than I trust my own friends. Because the enemy at least wants to kill you. And that's an honest relationship. You know, in business and capitalism, I know what my enemy wants. He wants me to be out of business so he can get my market share. I trust my enemy. Because I trust what's his number one. If I got a pizza shop across the street, and you're here, guess what? You want my pizza guys to come to you. I get it. You want my best guy that makes the best pizza to come to you. I get it. I respect it, what you're trying to do. And I have to find a way to keep wanting to compete. But when it's on the inside, and you're seeing it, now how you handle it. So, okay, so go, let's go back to it.

• 38:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Specific to Islam and Christianity today, okay? What do you foresee happening? We know the way they're going right now, twenty, thirty years in America. They're gonna be growing. You're seeing Mamdani in New York, who is a radical leftist, you can call him a progressive socialist, democratic socialist. But when you use certain phrases, we know out of Karl Marx, you know, seize the means of production and capital, that's, you know, you've seen Red Atlas shrug, or you've read Communist Manifesto, I've read both of the books. He's a communist. And you're seeing what's happening with him. Ilhan Omar, you're seeing Detroit, Dearborn. You're seeing in your area, Colleyville, not Colleyville, but Plano, where they're building the Epic Center, that, you know,

• 39:36Patrick Bet-David?

  the governor's trying to work ahead. Our system and our constitution has left it open for them to be able to come and infiltrate if they want to. There's nothing about our constitution that doesn't allow them to not be able to compete. And they're not gonna slow down until they get what they want. That's a form of competitiveness. If I believe in what I believe in, I'm gonna come and take your market share. Your members, your churches, I'm gonna take, you know, churches that you guys have converted into Muslims. How do you fight against that? And what do you foresee taking place in the future with this?

• 40:09Speaker 02

  If things stay the same, we lose.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I think that's obvious. Just look at the demographics. Just look at the curves. You can go on Grok or ChatGPT and say, Grok, draw for me a graph of the population rates and pick a country and it'll draw it out and you can see which year. That is going to happen and we need to have a real come to Jesus meeting. Literally. Literally, literally. It's about interior conversion, but it's also about the external expression. And when you have abortion, contraception, you have feminism, America sadly is, I think, last I saw, is either 1.6 or 1.7 TFR birth rate. That's horrible. We were holding strong for many years at 2.1, which is replacement. That's right. But, you know, people, you know, they get on X, they get on social media and they're complaining

• 40:58Speaker 02

  and the immigration and I generally agree with them, but if we are not reproducing ourselves

• 41:06Speaker 02

  through conversions, but even just in the most basic way, which is through procreation, we are done for. We are done. I'm a cattle rancher. Yesterday I was out, had a calf born and was working and working with the cattle. If my cows had a 1.6 TFR birth rate, I'd be out of business. I'd be depressed. What's wrong with the cows? What's in the water? What are they eating? Are they poisoned? You know, are coyotes counting? What's going on? Why are we at 1.6 per cow? Like that is, you're out of business in one year. And yet we as a society are sitting here twiddling our thumbs, 1.6, and it's going down. And I think Muslims, I don't know what the recent

• 41:47Speaker 02

  is, but I think Muslims are around three. There's, it's not great, but it's definitely above replacement. Just run those numbers. Run that concept. You're done. You're gonna lose. You're gonna be replaced. And so that's another, it's another, it's a chapter in the book in having a real conversation of what is marriage? What is family? Why do we have children?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  What is the purpose of matrimony? How do we raise our children? And are we truly open to being above replacement levels? That's a conversation. I don't think the Overton window has moved that far yet. But we need to get the Overton window moved. I mean, that's part of the reason why it's one of the chapters in the book is we need to have real conversations. Thank God, you have four. You're doing great. I got eight. We need people to start thinking about what is our duty to our patria? That's Latin. Our fatherland. That's why I use patriot. Patriot is a virtue of devotion to the patria. And patria is Latin for fatherland. It has to do with honor your father and mother. What is your duty to humanity?

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Duty to God is first. Duty to humanity is, you know, and all these young people, they don't want to get married. And there's a lot of good reasons for that. The way marriage laws and divorce and, and the way our economy is, there's a lot of reasons why people, young people aren't having marriages, family, children. We need to address that. But we, we really do need to have that discussion or we're just done. Like it's over. It's extinction.

• 43:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I, I, I don't think, I think right now, the way marriage, the, the package and the benefits of marriages being sold. Most people don't know how to sell it. The, the, the way, the packaging of having kids being sold. Most people don't know how to sell it. Years ago, real estate was going through a terrible time where people weren't buying homes. They were renting and everybody became minimalist. And they're like, why would I buy a house? I'm just going to rent a house. And then they hired this, uh, marketing guy that came in and he says, look, why do people come to America? Because the American dream. We got to tie owning a home to the American dream. So every commercial moving forward was, I'm living the American dream. What is the American dream?

• 44:03Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm finally a homeowner. Boom.

• 44:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Home ownership, American dream. Do you want to live the American dream? Babe, let's go buy a house. We're living the American dream. Real estate skyrocketed again. And I know this is, next one is a bad example. It used to be pro-death. It wasn't pro-choice. Pro-abortion. Life insurance used to be called death insurance. Right? Pro-choice used to be called pro-abortion. Elimination, pro-elimination. Now it's pro-choice. Better word. I'm open to pro-choice. I'm not open to pro-abortion. But I'm open to pro-choice. What do you think, from your words? Why should somebody get married? I'm a single guy. I'm a playboy. I'm having a good time. I'm running around. Do I really want to be just with one girl and, you know, have to answer to my wife every, pick up the phone if you don't pick up, you got an argument?

• 44:53Patrick Bet-David?

  What are you doing Friday night, Saturday night? I'd want to go out with the boys to the club and hang out and run. You want me to give all that freedom up for marriage and you want me to be having kids? Wake me up in the middle of the night, one of the kids gets a flu, then all the kids get flu and it's just a matter of time. And when I'm getting the flu, it could be three weeks from now, a week from now, two months from now, saliva, I'm out of work, they're spitting on me, I'm changing their diapers. What a mess.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  You're not selling it, Ben.

• 45:18Patrick Bet-David?

  You're not selling it. Package it better for me. So why should a, you know, guy sitting here saying, dude, I just want to focus on my career. Lady, focus, I just want to focus on my career. I don't want to have kids, get married. Why should somebody get married and have kids?

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Well, I've heard you, I've heard you on the podcast talk about it. The joy, those moments with your children and watching them grow and develop. You know, we have eight children and it is, it is the highlight of my life. It is truly, was it extremely difficult when we had, you know, three under four and, you know, you got diapers? Absolutely. But you know what? So was building a business. So was writing a book. You've done all these things. You hate it. There's times you're like, this sucks. Why am I doing this? It's not worth it. But then later on. It's amazing. Yeah. You know, and people need to know that that is the path of parenthood and family. Is there instant gratification? No, but we need to teach people delayed gratification because I sometimes, when I'm enjoying something

• 46:16Speaker 02

  great in my life, a success, I think, you know, there was a past version of Taylor Marshall, who made these decisions and worked really hard for those six months or those two years. And that past version of Taylor Marshall gifted this moment to me because of what I did before. You know, and you have to think about that delayed gratification. And that is Christianity. Christianity is, we are in a valley of tears. There is suffering in this life. We're all going to have problems. We're all gonna die. We're all gonna have suffering. We live not for the instant gratification of the drugs, the sex, the party, all these things. We defer, we restrain ourselves from these things because we believe in a higher good

• 47:01Speaker 02

  and that it will be better. That has to be taught to people. We live in a more hedonistic society. And I think what you're saying there is also, we have to sell it. You know, we have to show that it's not just the American dream, it's the human dream. Every, everything that's alive wants to procreate, to reproduce, to, to expand the good. And maybe it's, you know, maybe people have a bad view of themselves, or maybe there's some self hatred, or there's fear because their parents were divorced, or things they went through from a child, and like, I don't want to expand that. But I think if, if you have a right relationship with God, there's healing in those things and there's a new perspective. There's a transcendent view, you know, it's not just looking around here anymore.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  You're starting to look up there and you're like, you know, I'm just for a moment, I'm for 80, 90 years, but something goes on. And I always tell my kids, all my kids, I'm like, look, I want you to be smarter than me, I want you to have a better marriage than mom and me, I want you to be wealthier, I want, I want you to be holier, I want you to be better, smarter, everything than me. My whole goal is just to slingshot you into more excellence. And I'm sure you're the same way. No question about it. Right? Yeah. That's an amazing thing. That's an amazing thing. I want, I don't want to hold my kids back. I want them all to be, when I die, hopefully, better than I am along the path of what God wants for them in this world. That is the, that is the ultimate project to live for.

• 48:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Eight kids. Which number was hardest? Because when you have two, they'll tell you when you go to three, that's tough, right? Because you know, the whole triangle offense or zone and whatever they talk about. What number was tougher than three?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Three and four is the hardest.

• 48:42Patrick Bet-David?

  That's it?

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Well, because they're so young. They're so young and you're dealing with young kids, you know. As, you know, as they reach 10, especially when they start reaching, we, we haven't had like really bad problem kids or teenagers. You know, you've got some of the older ones and they're helping mom with dinner and you know, there's kind of a team effort that happens. And I think that's another great thing for kids. To be part of this large community where there's, there is fighting and there is bickering and, you know, he took this and he didn't do the chores and tattletaling. That's all, but I think that also rounds you out and polishes off the rough edges for people. And that's something else I think we're kind of missing is sort of the joy and the benefit, the outcome

• 49:27Speaker 02

  of a large family. You'll meet all the guys all the time like, oh, I got 100 employees. I got this. It's like, well, you know, let's have, let's have, go from two kids to three kids.

• 49:36Patrick Bet-David?

  How many friends you got that have eight kids? Same, same mom and dad?

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I've got, one of my buddies, a mentor, Greg, we just went to Rome together. He's got 12.

• 49:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Catholic as well?

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Catholic. Guy across the street from me, Catholic, he's got eight.

• 49:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Same, same husband and wife?

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Same husband and wife. I'd say I'd probably know 30.

• 49:55Patrick Bet-David?

  You know 30?

• 49:56Speaker 02

  I'm Catholic, Pat.

• 49:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Santorum's also got eight kids. Santorum had eight kids, if I'm not mistaken, right? He'd, something happened to one of them, I believe.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:04Patrick Bet-David?

  There was a, there was a, a challenge that happened with them. How many kids does Santorum have?

• 50:10Speaker 02

  I think you're right. I think he has eight. Yeah, there it is. Right there. There it is, eight.

• 50:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, interesting.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  And that's one of the things about being Catholic is, you know, in 1968, Pope Paul VI came out very controversial and he said contraception's wrong. It's a sin. Now, ninety something percent of Catholics don't follow that teaching, but it's on the books. And when you think about it, you know, when you think about the mystery of matrimony and you, the mystery of what sex actually is, the way God designed it,

• 50:40Speaker 02

  I think there's a lot of wisdom in what Pope Paul VI says in the Catholic Church. And, you know, when I, when people find out I have eight kids with the same woman, they're like, "Okay, are you Catholic, Mormon, or Muslim?" That, I, that question right there, I think, is, is revealing to where we are in a society. And

• 51:01Speaker 02

  it is a blessing. It is the most rewarding thing I've ever done. And I think you would agree with me that the, the joy of seeing your children succeed, even fail, learn, grow, it is, it's such a, it's, it's such a profound human experience. It's, it pulls you out of your own egoism into the life of other people. And another thing I think it does is it bonds you to your wife. Because you are, you have to be together. If you have one or two kids and they go off to college, yeah, I mean, you don't really, you know, maybe you do get divorced. I don't know.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  But when you, when you're dealing with a team like that, you really learn to bond with each other. You really learn to work as a team. And just as it's kind of chiseling off the rough parts on the kids, I think it's also doing the same for the husband and wife, so.

• 51:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting. I, I just, can you search which religion has the most kids? And, and not even, I don't even know if I want to go religion. Do, do Catholics, Mormons, and Jews and Muslims, specifically them?

• 52:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you go a little lower up so I can see what you're typing up? There you go. Okay. Who has more kids? So, interesting when you say you're Catholic.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  2.9.

• 52:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Mormons are... Holy moly Mormons.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Mormons. They're doing it.

• 52:32Patrick Bet-David?

  They're doing it. Right now while they're watching this, they're gonna take a break right now and step away.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Catholics are at 2.

• 52:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Catholics are at 2.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Below replacement. Jews 2.3.

• 52:41Patrick Bet-David?

  But is it, isn't it...

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Can you put in there, can you put in, how many do traditional Catholics have? That's kinda where I'm at. That's what I am. That's like Mel Gibson, you know, like, where are like the old dinosaur Catholics? Put in, how many, birth rate for traditional Catholics?

• 52:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, there you go.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  3.6, 4.2.

• 53:01Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what we want to talk about. 3.6 to 4.2. And so, when you tell me 30? Dude, I don't know if I know...

• 53:10Speaker 02

  I would say on Sunday at Mass, more people are under 15 than over 15.

• 53:15Patrick Bet-David?

  That's amazing.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  It is amazing.

• 53:17Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a very healthy sign for...

• 53:18Speaker 02

  I always say, if your church isn't crying, it's dying. Like, you need to hear those babies.

• 53:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, makes sense. That's good. So, so, it, it, so, from the moment he said that, contraception, what year was that he said? 1960?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, it's been the first time that any Christian said contraception, okay, was the Anglican Church of England, 1930, Lambeth Conference. That was shocking to the world, that Christians said, "Oh, you can use condoms," and they were like, "Whoa."

• 53:46Patrick Bet-David?

  When was the first time?

• 53:47Speaker 02

  1930.

• 53:48Patrick Bet-David?

  And, and what's the name of the person that said he can use condoms?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  It was the, uh, a conference of Anglican non-Catholic bishops called the Lambeth Conference, I believe.

• 53:58Patrick Bet-David?

  So, the Lambeth Conference?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  That was 1930. That was the first time any Christian had ever said, "You can practice artificial contraception." Did it come up? There it is. 1930, Lambeth Conference. And so then, when that happened, there was all this confusion in Christianity, "Can we do this or can we not do that?" And finally, 38 years later, 1968, Pope Paul VI issued a document called Humane Vitae, and he says, "You may not practice artificial contraception." Hugely controversial. Still controversial to this day.

• 54:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Still controversial till this day, like even members say.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  I would say, you know, your Joe Biden Catholic crowd, they're like, that's dumb. We're gonna contracept, right? But those who are traditional Catholics, they're like, we're never gonna use a condom. We're never gonna use contraception. Let's roll the dice and see what happens.

• 54:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, that's in 1930, first time they say this at the Lambert Conference. Question is, was he the founder of Trojan condoms? That's kind of what I wonder. Majority investor. It's like an 18% owner, like, oh, now it makes sense. The guy's a billionaire. Yeah, it started off with targeting Catholics first, but what was it? This is, you said this was a word, this was in Church of England?

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Church of England, Protestant Church of England. Uh, Lamba Conference was a group of their bishops and clergy. They all got together, they discussed it and they said, and actually, let me clarify. They, they said it can only be used by married couples. They said using it outside of, you shouldn't be even having sex outside of marriage. So that's off the table. They were just saying married couples can discern to use it in the Protestant Church of England. And then the Catholic Church says, no, we're not gonna allow that.

• 55:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Why though? Why is it to say the, the act and the behavior is purely to procreate? Is that what the mindset is?

• 55:49Speaker 02

  It's not purely to procreate because God associated with, associated with extreme pleasure and bonding. So it's not solely to procreate, but when you, you know, if I said, well, let's look at the ear. And we did an anatomical study of the ear. Oh, it's for hearing, like we can hear things and the eyeball and the stomach and all these things. If you look at human genitalia, they're designed for procreation. So if you're going to completely remove that from the human experience, you're working against nature. And here we are, 2025.

• 56:20Patrick Bet-David?

  People, if you did that, if you remove that from the human experience. They would go protest.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:26Patrick Bet-David?

  They'd be very upset about that if you did that. Now, in the last five years, it's become popular to cut your dangling off and, you know, go through the.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  See, look where it led us. Look where it led us. Well, and also, think about this, Pat. If, if you remove, if, if a man and woman are married, and this is the inner sanctum of their marital life, right? That's the exclusive element of holy matrimony. If you say, okay, well, we're going to remove that procreative element,

• 56:55Speaker 02

  ultimately, there's the male and there's the female, and they come together and have a child. If you start to remove that, you're also starting to take away the idea of what marriage is, and you're also taking away the, the procreative difference between man and woman. Now, just extrapolate that over time, and you're going to redefine marriage altogether, and you might even redefine what it is to be a man or a woman, right? You're, you're kind of breaking past the, the holy of holies of that veil, and getting in there and changing something for the first time. And, you know, even like Tucker Carlson's been like, saying, man, I've rethought this contraception thing, like, this is big. And, and, uh, Dr. Peterson said, feminism is not all these women being heroic. Feminism was the invention of the birth control pill.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  It gives them the power to go into the workplace and prevent pregnancy for decades at a time.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Without that magical power, you would not have feminism.

• 57:51Speaker 00

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• 58:21Speaker 07

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• 58:54Patrick Bet-David?

  I wonder if it's gonna flip, like even right now, the use, I wonder if it's gonna flip. And we're gonna get to a point where it's about having four, five, six, seven, eight, 10 kids. I wonder for, because that's a massive flip. When you live a selfish life, it's temporarily, it's very warm and fuzzy. And by the time you find that it's not, it's kind of too late. You know, you're kind of like, ah, shoot. Like the whole feminist movement, let me tell you, and then you're 66 years old. Biggest mistake of my life was joining, you know, you see that taking place.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm Dr. Taylor Marshall, and I run a podcast and write books on philosophy, theology, Catholicism. My wife and I have eight children, so if you'd like to connect and ask me any questions on any of these topics or anything else, please connect with me on Manect.

• 59:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you been following the Rogan, talking about he's going to church?

• 59:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have. It's fantastic.

• 59:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you have a clip of it, Rob?

• 59:51Speaker 08

  I do.

• 59:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this him talking about it?

• 59:52Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 59:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Go for it.

• 59:54Speaker 08

  Wait, are you going to church too, or is that bullshit? I have been to church. Oh, fuck.

• 59:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 59:59Speaker 08

  Have you ever been to church before? I've been. It's actually very nice. They're all just trying to be better people. It's a good vibe.

• 1:00:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Why don't you go to a Catholic church?

• 1:00:07Speaker 08

  I tried that. I did that.

• 1:00:09Patrick Bet-David?

  I went to St. Pat's in New York.

• 1:00:11Speaker 08

  That's a beautiful place.

• 1:00:12Patrick Bet-David?

  So nice. Some guy gave me a rosary. I keep it.

• 1:00:16Speaker 08

  If it's not Catholic, which one is it? It's just a Christian church.

• 1:00:19Patrick Bet-David?

  A non-denominational Christian. Yeah, all this fucking Jewish.

• 1:00:22Speaker 08

  Joel Osteen shit? Yeah, I'm just giving all my money to Osteen.

• 1:00:28Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about this?

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  I think it's great. I mean, he, he has been bringing on a lot of, a lot more Christian conservative thinkers. And so I, I've kind of, I don't watch every single Joe Rogan show, but I've, I've watched tons of them, hundreds of them. And I've seen that trajectory. I'm not totally surprised. You've seen, um, you know, Candace Owens became Catholic last year.

• 1:00:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Uh, Jordan Peterson's wife became Catholic.

• 1:00:54Patrick Bet-David?

  She looks like she's on track for eight kids, by the way.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  They just had number, uh...

• 1:00:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Three.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, no, no, they're four, I think.

• 1:00:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, they have three sons.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  You're right. Yes, yeah.

• 1:01:02Patrick Bet-David?

  They're on track. They're on track.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  They're traditional Catholic. They're hitting those, we gotta hit, pump those numbers, people.

• 1:01:07Patrick Bet-David?

  They're going.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  Pump the numbers. You know, it could be, I, I think in some, like Mormon circles, and maybe even in some Catholic circles, it, it could be a, um... Sometimes perceived by people on the outside as a status symbol. They're like, oh, you're trying to flex on us because you have a Mercedes van with seven kids in it or whatever, you know, and I don't, I've never thought like, oh, I want to flex on people by changing diapers for years upon years. You know what I mean? But honestly, it's so many times it does happen to us now because our youngest is nine, our oldest is turning 23. When we're out like a posse, you know, so many people come up and they're just like, this is so, these all, this is so beautiful. Thank you. People, especially older people, but even some younger people.

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  I, after church the other day, this couple came up to me and they're like, we just got married last weekend. And I was like, congratulations, welcome to matrimony, you know? It's going to be hard, it's going to be great. And they're like, you have any advice? And then like, we love seeing your family. And, and I just gave him some advice. And so you, there are these people who I think have maybe lived a degenerate lifestyle and they party, party, party and they got out in time. And they realize, you know, I really want to live that transcendent life.

• 1:02:17Patrick Bet-David?

  To get out of that degenerate lifestyle quick. You know, it's, it's because it, you can prolong that for 30 years.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  I mean, you and I know, like, we had friends, one, you can drink and party, but once he starts hitting 40, you can see it on him.

• 1:02:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it's like, dude, relax. Use that, you know, aging for the right investment and it's kids. But Rogan, so you're saying the trajectory, you, you watch hundreds of episodes, you've kind of seen where he's going. What is the trajectory that you've seen him go through? Because he is the, he is the, he is the modern day Johnny Carson, right? Where people are watching him go through it and I, I would also put the modern day Johnny Carson with some kind of a, because with Johnny was all entertainment, right?

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Patrick Bet-David?

  There's an element of pure learning, education.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  I think he's Johnny, he's a Johnny Carson, but he's also kind of a tribal leader because he has all of these people.

• 1:03:09Patrick Bet-David?

  No question about it.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  I started, I was a jujitsu guy, you know, and I was watching him because of jujitsu and UFC and all that. And then he started getting more into the intellectual and having professors on. I was like, oh, this is interesting, like a new turn for Joe Rogan. And then through kind of the Trump years, he started, you know, saying something like, that sounds kind of MAGA, Joe, like you're starting to go a little MAGA. And then he had Trump on and I saw he was, he was covering like the Shroud of Turin and he had, he's had a couple of evangelical Protestants on. And I'm like, he, this isn't, they aren't just showing up here accidentally. Clearly, I mean, we both do podcasts and interview people. You kind of explore the space like that person would be interesting. That would be interesting.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  So he's, he's clearly curating these guests and he's exploring it. So when I saw that wasn't, I was, I was happy for him. I think he grew up Catholic and early on left it. I think that's his backstory. But I think it's a great trajectory and we're starting to see it with so many people, athletes, you know, people in the public eye. There is an end to degeneracy. You can only be so gay, so many genders, so, you know. You can only be so gay. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. You can only be so gay. Yeah. You know, never go full gay, right? But you can only go, you know, there's only so many drugs and, and so many experiences and so many, you know, different varieties

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  of partners. You eventually come to the abyss of being and you're like, is this all there is? I mean, there's a whole book of the Bible, Ecclesiastes, you know, he says, I tried everything, food, women, everything. And I, everything's vanity of vanities. I found no meaning. I found no hope. I found no joy. And then he says, so what is the meaning of life? And he says, it's to fear the Lord. That's a transcendent leap. You know, you're, you're removing yourself from what you are in the moment and what you desire in this moment. Instant gratification. You're like, I'm going to fear the Lord. I'm going to live for something beyond.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  And what's great about Christianity is it's not just a transcendent deity like Allah, it's the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Like Jesus Christ, the son of God, comes and lives amongst us. And, you know, we just had that horrible flood in Texas. I don't know if you saw that.

• 1:05:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, it's horrible.

• 1:05:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:34Patrick Bet-David?

  The kids, the stories, the father breaking the arm and window and dying and telling the kids, you guys go, no, it's just devastating.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  It's horrific to evil. And people have been asking me, you know, oh, you got a PhD in philosophy. What's, what, how do you solve the problem of evil? You can't solve the problem of evil. You read the book of Job, God handles it. And he's like, you don't know, you don't get to know. But what we do have is we have the idea that the son of God became flesh. He dwelt amongst us. He was ridiculed. He was persecuted. He was punched in the face. They spat in his face, says the Bible. They put a crown of thorns on him. They whipped him to shreds. They made him carry the cross. They crucified him. They continue to laugh at and mock at him. He experienced human suffering. He did not draw away from the human experiences. And he absorbed the evil of the world.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  And then he dies and then he rises again on the third day. And you'd expect like if it's a Hollywood movie, he'd be like John Wick, like Rambo, just coming back like you bastards. Look what you did to me. But he says, peace. I forgive you. Come unto me.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  The kingdom of God is at hand. And the fact that Jesus Christ dwells amongst us, you look at all these parents that grieving, you know, there's there's a couple, they had two Catholic young girls, they died, holding each other, holding their rosaries, just absolutely horrific. I was talking about on my podcast yesterday, I was crying. I was like, if this happened to my daughters, I don't even know how to handle this. But there's no answer to it philosophically, but there is the reality that Jesus is in the valley of tears with us. He's crucified. And the fact that God is with us and came down to be with us provides consolation to it. We won't know till we get to heaven. But the fact that he did come down and he was with us and he suffered with us, no other religion has that. Nothing.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's our faith. And to me, that's why I'm a Christian. That's why I love Jesus Christ. That's why I believe in him. That is, that is the story of all stories.

• 1:07:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you know, it's beautiful when you're saying that because you just, I wrote down a bunch of different things to ask you a question on. On the process you go through. You know, for me, just living a selfish life, going through it, whether it's pre-army, army, bitter towards life and different people in your life, and what happened, and the amount of people let you down disappointed. And you're just kind of feeling this victim, oh my God, poor me, and all this other stuff, and you're like, relax, buddy. And then I go from that to certain incidents that happen, I've shared the stories. But what happened with my mother, when she called me, and a few other instances, then I go and I meet a group in Paznas, Glendale, I do Bible study with these guys.

• 1:08:19Patrick Bet-David?

  And a friend of mine, one of my friends ended up taking his own life after the Bible study because he was addicted to vicodin, it was very tough. One of my favorite people in the world. And we'd stay up from Friday, six o'clock at night till two o'clock in the morning, and he was, he was an expert in the philosophy. Pastor Mano. And we would talk philosophy, Aristotle, you know, Stoicism, epic, you know, all these. Seneca, and what about this, and what about, you know, how he went from being a cynicism to Stoicism to, because that's how the concept of cynic came about, like, oh my God, I'm enamored by this. And a couple of years later, I become a Christian, January 21st of Ophir, I give my life to Christ at this church in Porta Ranch, Shepherd of the Hills, and I was the guy

• 1:08:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Saturday nights in Pasadena, holding up signs, John 3:16, Jesus is coming, outside of nightclubs at two o'clock in the morning. No one in a million years, not many people know this story. But some of the guys that knew me from that era, like, what are you doing outside of the nightclub? I said, bro, this thing's changed my life, bro.

• 1:09:14Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Really, oh my God, like, there's no way, we're gonna see you at the after hours, you ain't gonna see me anywhere. And then it was that shift. It was that shift. And, and, and, and the types of energies that brought into my life was so beautiful, but also tough. The accountability, the temptations increased. Now that they knew what life I wanted to live, the number of people knocking on the door in birthday suits increased for whatever reason. It's like, hey, you're gonna say no to this? Damn, get out. Leave the house, right? You're 25, 26, 27 trying to go through this. But it wa- it wasn't easy. It was challenging. But the life I live today, I cannot believe the life I live today.

• 1:09:59Patrick Bet-David?

  I feel like I'm the luckiest man alive for what God has given me.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  What would you say if you could go back and tell that young Pat in that moment?

• 1:10:08Patrick Bet-David?

  While he's already gone through it or he's going through it?

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  No, the moment he had the conversion. What would you go back and tell yourself? Cause I'm sure at the moment you were like, am I really in on this? Is this, is this for me?

• 1:10:19Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, I almost wouldn't tell him anything.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  You wouldn't?

• 1:10:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Because you gotta go through it, bro.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:10:23Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm gonna be like, no. Like, my son, I dropped him off at, at, at a certain university. I'll announce in three weeks. He's at a university school. First time ever he's away from us for 13 days. And I wrote him this, this long text while he's going there. And very long text message. It's private. I'm not gonna share it publicly because he wouldn't like me doing that. But I wrote this message to him. I was just kinda like, hey, daddy, this is what I want you to know. Here's what your dad is thinking about. I'm kinda going through it. And as I'm typing, retyping, typing, retyping, typing, retyping, typing, retyping, and I keep making it shorter. I keep making it shorter. I keep making it shorter. Right? And then eventually I send it out to him.

• 1:11:06Patrick Bet-David?

  And a part of what he's going through as a 13-year-old, he's gotta go through it. You know, you gotta give 10, 20% and just make sure you have the right guardrails. This is the first time we've left the guardrails out. I was away from my dad for a year and a half from ten to twelve years old when my parents got the ugly, the nasty divorce. Only talked to him one time in that year and a half and I was my, I grew the most at eighteen months. It was the scariest eighteen months of my life. As a ten year old, I left Iran, I don't speak German and I'm in a refugee camp, but I had to be like, hey, stop acting like you're gonna be okay, but where is he? I need my dad. Like, you're kinda going through this and you don't like God at the time because of

• 1:11:50Patrick Bet-David?

  all the things that happened in Iran and you have to lose all your friends that you loved. So I had to go through it. I think, I think, I think I would tell Patrick, you gotta go through it, bro. Yeah. It's gonna be some weird moments you're gonna have and you're gonna get tested and let's see how you handle it. Instead of saying, that one girl's gonna show up, don't do this. Yeah. That one thing's gonna happen, it's gonna be like, let's see what you're gonna do, buddy. But the reality of it is, God's with you, you're not alone. That's right. So you're not going through this journey. Whenever you feel fully lonely, get on your knees, pray and try to stay there as long as possible, as much as possible, as close to him as possible. And then the bigger and bigger life got, I realized, there's no way in the world I can do anything big by myself, not me.

• 1:12:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh my God, look what you built, bro. Yeah, I work very hard. I mean, people who know me, they know I work very hard. But the number of miracles that's happened, I can't take credit for that. It's a beautiful thing, I'm grateful for it, but I can't take credit for that. But the, the lifestyle of a degenerate for how long? What is new? You're not gonna break Will Chamberlain's record. No. You know what I'm saying? You're just not, bro. The math doesn't add up. Yeah. Right? You're not gonna go be what Hugh Hefner, by the way, did you see why Hugh Hefner became a Playboy? Have you seen a video why he became? I don't know why. Rob, have you seen why Hugh Hefner became a Playboy? Oh man, I saw this clip the other day. Watch this, I can't even believe I'm showing this with Doc, it's not even in my notes. Rob, I gotta send you this clip, cause I don't even think I-

• 1:13:18Patrick Bet-David?

  We're in a Hugh Hefner tangent. Well, but I'm gonna tell you how, how amazing this story's gonna be here when you see this. And you know what you're gonna realize? You're gonna see the pain. Hmm. You're gonna, dude, instantly, first thing I saw is, I said, dude, I relate. But watch this. Rob, you don't have that, I have it right here and he explains it in such a-

• 1:13:42Patrick Bet-David?

  I found it. Here we go. Oh, you gotta watch this. How he went from a guy that wanted to be a good man, living a good life, to all of a sudden Playboy, womanizer, doing what he did. He tells the story to you exactly what happened. Watch this. I think a lot of young men today will relate to this. Can you make it a little bit bigger? Go for it. Press it from the beginning, refresh and find a way to get the audio. There you go. Real quick so we can see. Go for it.

• 1:14:15Speaker 09

  Marriage. Virgin.

• 1:14:17Patrick Bet-David?

  I wanted to.

• 1:14:18Speaker 09

  In the sense that I had slept with only one person before in my life, the woman that I then married. Right after I was engaged,

• 1:14:29Speaker 09

  my wife-to-be had an affair and told me about it just a short time before the wedding.

• 1:14:37Speaker 09

  That in combination with the Puritan background had a dramatic impact on me. And I am absolutely certain that a part of what lay behind the establishment of Playboy was a

• 1:14:54Speaker 09

  throwing off the chains of personal hurt and indignity and simultaneous with that,

• 1:15:02Speaker 09

  a quest for some better way. I went into my marriage.

• 1:15:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow. Have you ever heard this?

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  I've never heard that before.

• 1:15:08Patrick Bet-David?

  I just heard this last week. I never knew about this. Rob, had you ever heard this before? What's your impression when you hear this? How do you process this?

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  It doesn't surprise me. I think a lot of young men, especially nowadays, just with the whole OnlyFans culture and all the promiscuity, I think a lot of them are very jaded. And you kind of see them sort of spin off into sort of very right wing ideology. Or you see them just go all in on hedonism. I think it's a pretty natural young man response, wouldn't you say?

• 1:15:40Patrick Bet-David?

  I think so as well. And, and look, I've had Andrew Tate on many times and he and I spoke today. And we have a very interesting relationship together. We live completely different lives. It's not the same lives at all, but we get along and, you know, we can have the conversations and I enjoy talking to him every time. And I know a lot of people get upset when I say this, but I enjoy it.

• 1:16:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Every time I ask him a question about, you know, girl that broke his heart and publicly humiliated him and maybe went and, you know, hooked up with another guy that you were so embarrassed, like for the rest of my life, I will never, ever allow another woman to break my heart like this again. Typically, men who go this extreme, it's either their mother that hurt them in a way that's very weird. And it's either their, um, a woman they followed everything by the book. I'm gonna save myself for this and I'm gonna do this and then all of a sudden, bam, it's like dude, I am never allowing another woman to have this kind of da-da-da-da and I'm gone, right?

• 1:16:48Patrick Bet-David?

  What's more painful than something like this? So, you know, as men are going through different challenges and different pain, the, the, the process is gonna be very difficult. But this is why you need God in your life, man, because you know what's, what's one of the first things that Pastor Manu told me? Uh, in, what year was it? 2003, 22 years ago. You know, I'm like, listen, you know, I've gone to church and, you know, this, this and that and there's all these people that are this and, you know, pastors that I saw on stage and then like, you know, they're hooking up with one of the members and da. And I saw, he said, that's why I didn't wanna be affiliated with a church. He says, look, if you ever judge your relationship with God horizontally, you'll always be disappointed. If it's vertical, you won't be disappointed.

• 1:17:33Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right. If it's horizontal, you'll always be disappointed. And I said, what's he talking about? If it's based on other human beings and how they're gonna treat you, you will always be disappointed. Cause you're disappointing other people. We're sinners. That's right. I don't mean you, I mean you as in us, human beings, right? Yeah, me included. Yeah, all of us. So I sat there, I said, alright, cool. Well, I'm gonna try to do my best to see if I can keep this relationship vertically going, so you can minimize the amount of disappointments, even though it's gonna happen, because we're human beings.

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  It's gonna happen.

• 1:18:03Patrick Bet-David?

  It's gonna happen.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  And, and part of it is, it's, you know, Jesus says, "Take up your cross daily." There's a daily element to it. It's not a one and done. Uh, I know some people try to present it that way theologically, but there is, just like a marriage, or a friendship, or a business, there is a, a constant return and a building upon it. And that's how you have to be with Christ. It's, he waits for you every morning. And his mercies are new every day, and there's new challenges, new struggles, new pains, and new successes, new joys. Uh, it has to be dynamic like that.

• 1:18:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I, uh, I love it. And, and, you know, I, I also understand, young men, that, hopefully, young men will see this. And they kind of go through it. They're like, "Oh, dude, what was it?" By the way, you know, if you're a young man watching this, and you want a couple, you know, recommendations on stuff to read, I'll give you three book recommendations for young men. Ready? First one's gonna be Samson Syndrome. Uh, I read this fifteen years ago. Mark Atterberry, I don't know what his name is. Can you, is that what it is, Rob? Yep. I still remember. Okay, good. Samson Syndrome. Go read it, okay? What you can learn from the baddest boy in the Bible. Good luck putting this book down, okay? Mark Atterberry. Second book I will recommend

• 1:19:17Patrick Bet-David?

  is, um, uh, uh, uh, King, Lover, Warrior, um, Magician. It's a very different book. And it's not a book that, um, it actually explains the pains of young boys. I don't know if you've read this one or not. It's

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Familiar with the archetypes, right?

• 1:19:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, yeah. Archetypes. Some of the stuff is controversial. A guy read it yesterday on Manect, so responds back to me, says, "You sure you want me to read this book? Because I'm at a section that kind of contradicts what you're saying." I said, "No book you're gonna read that's gonna be a hundred percent." So you have to be able to manage the contradictions in a book. But I think those two books, and the last one I would say is No More Mr. Nice Guy.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I think too many men have spent too much time with their mothers, and they've become too soft, and you need to, you need to kind of, uh, man up if you, and I even had the guy on a podcast many, many years ago, very interesting conversation. Uh, this guy. It's not a faith-based book, but I, I, Samson Syndrome is a faith-based book. But if a man is going through it, and they're related to this, um, You know Hugh Hefner guy that was a big figure in today being Andrew Tates.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:20Patrick Bet-David?

  And you, you, you, you gotta go through your transition because that life, living that life is very tough and lonely and like this is gone.

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  Can I recommend one?

• 1:20:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  I, I think every young man should read the book of Proverbs in the Bible. It's 31 chapters. You read one chapter a day. It's like God set it up for a monthly read. And the book of Proverbs talks about sluts and whores and debt and business and bad deals and contracts and marriage. I mean, everything that a guy 15 to 30 is dealing with, it's over and over in the book of Proverbs. And it's amazing that people have, guys haven't read, and men and women, but guys, especially young men. 31 days, read the book of Proverbs is going to change your life.

• 1:20:59Patrick Bet-David?

  It truly will.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:00Patrick Bet-David?

  It truly will change your life. By the way, transitioning to do, because your PhD philosophy, right? So Stoicism. First time, you know, when, when some of these things had an, an influence on my life. Stoicism was one of them. When I read Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, I had my sons read Meditations. It's a phenomenal book, you know, out of all the writings, everything, the only thing they could find is Meditations. Cause they burned the stuff. I don't know what happened with the history of it. And I got, I got really connected with Stoicism. Uh, who was Epictetus?

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  Epictetus.

• 1:21:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Epictetus, right? And can you, can you tell me, one, the history of how Stoicism came about and then your opinion on Stoicism for young men?

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the history, kind of a philosophy, Greek philosophy, you got Socrates.

• 1:21:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  Right. He's the number one, and then his disciple Plato. And then Aristotle. So those are your three. And Aristotle disciple Alexander the Great, the great, you know, king emperor. So that kind of sets you up sort of what's going on. Socrates and Plato are a little bit more emphasized on the forms and the heavenly realities. Aristotle's a little bit more on the integration of form and matter down here. That's all great. So there was Xeno and the Stoic philosophers. They're named after the Stoa, which is an architectural feature in Athens. So they're named after basically where they met, right? And they presented, they actually saw themselves as an integration of Plato and Aristotle. They're kind of a synthesis, the Stoics.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  And the Stoics, I mean, kind of the, the 101 version is, um, emotions and passions are dangerous. And so you must still your soul.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  By denying your emotions and your passions. And so a practice that Stoics would would perform is they'd go 30 days eating the basest bread and the worst wine. And they would say to themselves every day, is this what you fear, Pat? Cheap wine, stale bread. Is this what you fear? It's not that bad, you know? Kind of just to get it out of you. And sometimes they would just say, what's the worst possible thing you could happen to you and just spend 30 minutes just driving down that lane and just getting freaked out? And and that's the Stoic. And I think it appeals to the masculine man because it shows it is the ultimate pre-Christian philosophy of don't live by your emotions.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  Don't follow, you know, the girl in the red dress. You know, don't trade today for tomorrow. Like you need to be, and he said, and Stoicism says happiness is in virtue and in stillness of the soul. Let me repeat that virtue, doing the right thing. And a virtue is a habit towards the good. So if I just help some, help an old lady once, that's a good deed. If I help lady, old ladies every single day for a year, that's a habit called a virtue. And if you do bad things every day, like look at porn every day, a habit that's bad is called a vice. So you have virtue and vice. They say you will be happy and Aristotle and Plato teach this. They're not even Christian. They're not going to Bible studies. You will be happy.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  You will find joy. You will find fulfillment in living the virtuous life. These are ancient Greek philosophers. And so I think a lot of young men, they read that. And it's, you know, especially if you're raised like Southern Baptist or something. You're like, I don't want to hear a preacher. And they go and they read Marcus Aurelius or some of these ancient Greek philosophers. Aurelius was a Roman emperor, but before him, the Greek philosophers. They're like, oh, this makes sense. I want this. I like this, right? And then often what happens, Pat, is those same guys then later on are like, yeah, but I need Christ in it too. I need Christ on the cross. That's kind of in a way, the ultimate Stoic moment.

• 1:24:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Such a great combination though, bro.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:24:53Patrick Bet-David?

  What a great, if you can, if you can find a way. And I think if you can find a way to balance the two, you know, the the philosophy of Stoicism, help me a better man, friend, father, businessman.

• 1:25:11Patrick Bet-David?

  The fear of God, and let me tell you, my level of fear for him is ridiculous. Most people are like, what do you mean by that? I say, yeah, I wish you know how scared I am. That is a place where, you know, my energy changes very quickly. Because what he's given me, I'm grateful and the fear is there. I'll never forget that energy when he came in. That combination for a man, I think is very powerful. And it's trusting, it's capable, it's upside. A woman probably wants a husband like that, feels protected by that. Kids want to follow a man like that.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  It makes you into an oak where you're rooted. And, and women are attracted to that. That's another thing, I think a lot of young guys out there, they don't understand what women are attracted to. You know, I think the book, No One is a Nice Guy taps into that a little bit, you know, just, you know, listening to what women say they want in the public sphere and then sort of conforming to that to be the nice guy. They realize they lose every time, it doesn't work. Women want that, they want to be brought on to an adventure. They want a man who's stoic. I mean, just look at all the, you know, great heroes in the movies that women are attracted to. James Bond and so on and so forth. You know, they're about to get killed, but they make a joke of it, you know? And they're courageous and they live on the edge.

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  And that's how we should be, should be living as men. If you're not afraid, if you're, if there's something that you're doing that's, you're just completely at ease all the time and you're not pushing it and you're like, how am I going to overcome this? You know, are you even living? You're not.

• 1:26:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  You're not. And, and I think stoicism is what helps you go from A to B to C. Or maybe towards the end of your life, you're at, you're at X, Y, and Z and you're like, man, this is, this is intense. You know, I don't, I don't want to retire and just go limp. I want to hopefully go out with my boots on.

• 1:27:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and, and. First time I got a hold of this whole concept, I was like, man, this, this, uh, by the way, who is this Rob? Do you know, do you know who that person is? Who is the person that's speaking?

• 1:27:12Speaker 05

  I don't, I'll take a look and see.

• 1:27:14Patrick Bet-David?

  First see who it is before I play the clips. I'm actually curious to know what his background is and what he does, before I play the clip to see his thoughts. Because he talks about marriage and women and his answer is very weird. Uh, you may or may not agree with it, I just kinda wanna, uh, uh, explain. Who is he? Is he a pastor? Is he anything related to faith or what was his job?

• 1:27:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Jewish family.

• 1:27:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Play the clip, see if you agree with this. I'm just curious to know what you'll say about this. Very interesting what he says, go ahead.

• 1:27:53Speaker 10

  We're saying that, um, a father represents God, but what does a mother represent?

• 1:28:00Speaker 11

  The devil.

• 1:28:04Speaker 11

  Never forget that.

• 1:28:07Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know if I agree, but listen to what he says, listen.

• 1:28:09Speaker 11

  Adam listened to his wife.

• 1:28:13Speaker 11

  He hearkened to the voice of his wife.

• 1:28:17Speaker 11

  Remember that. And remember it well. Never listen to a woman. You listen to her, but don't follow her. You know, women are always support the ambitions of men. They always support that fallen rebellious nature which is ambitious. And men are always working for the approval of that woman. For the love of that woman. And the approval of that woman only makes him more ambitious and more ambitious and more ambitious. His whole life revolves around the reassurance that ambition and pride is the way of being. See? That's the whole thing, if you look carefully in your life, men revolve around the, the support of the ambitious nature. They've eaten the fruit.

• 1:29:01Speaker 11

  Of pride. Instead of working hard for the work of their hands, they become more and more ambitious and spend their money more foolishly. You have to pay a woman more and more and more money to hold on to her love. See, and what's that love for? It's for pride.

• 1:29:18Speaker 10

  You were saying.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  What do you think about this? I think there's some insights in there. I would, I would disagree that the, the mother is the devil. I think he's being funny there. Yeah, he is. He really means that. I don't know. He's setting up a rhetorical point. I, I never knew who he was until right now. I just saw this clip. But he's setting it up. Yeah, he is, but go ahead. He's setting it up. Yeah. I tell you what, I'm, I'm 47. Genesis three is way deeper than I thought it was when I was 20 years ago. Genesis, chapter three, the fall of Adam and Eve is so profound philosophically, theologically, there's so much there. And I, I think a lot of what he's talking about there is right, is what you see in the story of the fall of Adam and Eve is, and I believe that's a true story. I believe that's a real story.

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  Is the man conforming to the request of the woman? It's original sin. It's a disordered understanding of reality as God established it. And every time you go against the natural order that God established it, not only is it sin, it brings disaster into the world. And, you know, I think that, that, that covers a lot of stuff that we've talked about today. Um, and I think we do live in a gynocentric culture. I think we, feminism is the predominant worldview in relationships and even in the way children are raised. But I, I've noticed, you know, I would say six years ago, if I was on my podcast and

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  I said feminism is the worst thing ever, people would be like, whoa, even conservatives, Fox News types, Christians will be like, no, no, there's some good thing. The Overton window has shifted on feminism. You go on X, you go on, there are women that are just like, screw feminism, screw me over. And you see these 20 year old girls like, I can't believe my mom taught me this. This is not what I want. And there is an act of rebellion by men and women against feminism. But I think we need to understand it in the context of what did God define matrimony as? What did he define man? What did he define woman as? All of that stuff needs to be defined according to Genesis, chapter three. And he's pointing at, look, if you want to understand brokenness in families, you go back to Genesis, chapter three, because everything is getting reversed and overturned

• 1:31:31Speaker 02

  in that small little chapter in the Bible. And there's a lot of insight there.

• 1:31:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you see Candace's conversation with the other girl on feminism?

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Was it Ali Beth Ducky, maybe?

• 1:31:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know what the girl's name is. She's got these, "Rob, I'm gonna send this. It's so funny, you're talking about feminism. I really like the way Candace broke this, this specific topic down. Rob, I just send it to you." So she's asking about the CIA funding the feminist movement, where the story comes from. I don't know if you've seen that one or not.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  No, I haven't seen that one.

• 1:32:04Patrick Bet-David?

  And why that, you know, became popular? And the girl's trying to debate it and argue it. And she makes a very, she says, "To be happy." Play this clip, Rob. It's worthy of us watching it. She makes a very good argument here.

• 1:32:18Speaker 12

  Kind of funny, because as someone who's anti-feminism, you practice it more than most women do. I mean, every time you get on your podcast, every time you collect a check, you're practicing feminism.

• 1:32:28Speaker 13

  Okay, that's what you think.

• 1:32:29Speaker 12

  No, that's what it is. Because without feminism, you wouldn't be able to exist.

• 1:32:32Speaker 13

  Yeah, people keep saying, I hate when people say that.

• 1:32:34Speaker 12

  But this is just the truth.

• 1:32:35Speaker 13

  It just shows that you haven't done the research to even understand where the feminist movement came from.

• 1:32:38Speaker 12

  Or you don't know history.

• 1:32:39Speaker 13

  Which was discovered, that's what I'm saying about you. Because it means that you don't understand that a bunch of government officials in the CIA funded the feminist movement. So for all of your hatred for the patriarchy and speaking about men.

• 1:32:49Speaker 12

  So my question is, is it bad that they funded it or bad that it just happened?

• 1:32:53Speaker 13

  Men wanted, men wanted women to go into the workforce. The government, which had a lot of men, it was being run by men.

• 1:32:59Speaker 12

  Are you talking about because World War II occurred and we had to go to factories? And then when we left the factories, they forced us back into the home?

• 1:33:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Let her speak.

• 1:33:05Speaker 13

  That's not what I'm saying at all. So let me tell you what I'm saying, and then you can respond to it.

• 1:33:09Speaker 12

  Go for it.

• 1:33:09Speaker 13

  Gloria Steinem is considered to be a feminist icon, right? Because she led these protests. She also had a bunch of music festivals. She got students involved. It is just a fact that Gloria Steinem was funded by the CIA, okay?

• 1:33:26Speaker 13

  The CIA, being the male-dominated CIA of the 50s and the 60s, funded those movements. So what do you think was the explicit aim? Do you think it was because the government really wanted you to be more free? That they wanted to encourage women to enter the workforce?

• 1:33:41Speaker 12

  Well, I have to be honest with you, I couldn't speak on behalf of the government. You know what I mean? And what their intention was with that.

• 1:33:46Speaker 13

  Well, I think it's important because you just said that I don't know history. And I think it's pretty important, if you're going to sit across from me and say, I don't know history, that you learn a piece of history and then question as...

• 1:33:52Speaker 12

  You keep bringing up men. And I think it's funny because we should talk about men more. Like you brought up suicide, they're four times more likely to kill themselves.

• 1:33:59Speaker 13

  Which is why I don't...

• 1:33:59Speaker 12

  And while women, we're twice as more often on antidepressants, but that's because we go out and do what we need to do to keep coping.

• 1:34:05Speaker 13

  Because we're not happy.

• 1:34:05Speaker 12

  And we need to focus on men and the patriarchy because it's actually oppressed them just as much as women now emotionally, right? Because when we're kids, we... Our parents teach us how to cross the street. Look both ways so you can get the other side unharmed. When a boy comes across a feeling, and I'm using men and boys here because they're the ones suffering, women are too, but emotionally, when they come across a feeling they haven't felt before, we have to teach them how to get to the other side and cope with it. Otherwise, they stay where they are. That anger and resentment builds. That's the feeling they become most comfortable with. That's the feeling they go to first in most situations. So we need to stop telling our boys that they don't cry because they do. They just do it alone and then they become even more alone.

• 1:34:46Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about that exchange?

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  I mean, Candace nailed it.

• 1:34:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Totally.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And also, people are starting to discover that Karl Marx talks about how that women have to be liberated from the home and women need to be in the workplace. This is Karl Marx. This is socialism. This is part of the new secular religion. And feminism was never intended to make the world a better place. It's creating a different class warfare within the home.

• 1:35:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but the reality of it is, you know, what are you solving for? You know, what are you solving for? Are you solving for being fulfilled? Are you solving for being independent? Are you solving to be happy? Are you solving to... What are you solving for? If the solving is to make you equal to men, you're never going to win because we're never going to win. We can't have kids. We're never going to be equal to you. We can't have kids. You're never going to be equal to us. There are certain jobs you're just not willing to do. Period. A guy while this flooding happened in Texas, did you hear about this guy named Scott? Who went and saved the 160, 56?

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  We should be rewarding this guy.

• 1:35:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Seriously.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:57Patrick Bet-David?

  When you hear the story about what he did and, and the clips about this guy, this guy's a, he's a rock star. How many women are we expecting to do that? We don't expect the women to go there. I'm not saying some can't do it, but a man, he's putting his life on the line to save other people's lives. That's a man's job. We are assigned to do that. Yeah, I was in the military. We had a lot of females, you know, but what are you solving for? Fulfillment. Are you fulfilled? Is the product solid? Are men as fulfilled as they were before? Is there value being shown? It's not hard to look at the data and see how our men feel today and how our women feel today.

• 1:36:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Especially some of them that signed up to this concept 40 years ago, 50 years ago, 60 years ago. You know, you, you hear these stories and you're sitting there saying, these guys are not happy with what they're going through.

• 1:36:48Speaker 02

  And look at the results. If, if the result is 1.6 birth rate, 1.2, point 8, point 7, down to zero. That's not a sustainable philosophy. It's not a sustainable way of doing human life. It has to be rejected.

• 1:37:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. No, I, I, again, I'm optimistic of where it's going because I think guys like you are talking about it. You know, we're talking about Joe Rogan earlier. I think, uh, the great thing about podcasts is we still have an experience. Like imagine if a, these Mr. Beast, God gets a hold of them. What does that look like?

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Imagine if a Joe Rogan, all of a sudden he starts, you know, when somebody starts speaking a language of, you know, it's a different language. You use certain words in a different way. Your, your pro changes. What is that going to look like? Like, you know, everybody on the left is like, we need to find the Joe Rogan of the left. Did, if these big podcasts, most of them are conservative. If all of a sudden they start really, guys like you are popping up, Wes Huff and all these other guys, you guys are doing a phenomenal job.

• 1:37:51Speaker 02

  Well, Candace, just there.

• 1:37:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, no, Candace is, uh, uh, but Candace is a, she's a top five podcast. I'm saying all of these others that are coming up, the different roles that they're playing. You know, that that's gonna be a very interesting thing long term. My level of optimism is very high. Question for you. You know, you're a well-read guy. You like philosophies. What part of Prophet Muhammad wasn't attractive to you to become a Muslim?

• 1:38:18Speaker 00

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• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  I don't know, marrying a little girl is kind of the top of the list for me, you know?

• 1:39:10Patrick Bet-David?

  But it has to be at least nine years old, though. Did you see that clip on the Daily Mail story? So you reacted to it? Can you pull up that story?

• 1:39:17Speaker 02

  You marry at six, but you can't consummate till she's nine because Mohammed, this is not a real religion. I mean, if I told you, hey, I got this religion, and you just get to have sex with virgins for eternity. You want to sign up? I'd be like, I don't know if this is a real religion, you know?

• 1:39:33Patrick Bet-David?

  How did it get so big, though? How did it get so big?

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, I don't know. It's a mystery.

• 1:39:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Two billion people.

• 1:39:41Speaker 02

  Huge.

• 1:39:41Patrick Bet-David?

  How did it get so big when they say? This is the story we're referencing. You brought up Afghan man, 45 years old, marries girl aged six before Taliban intervene and say, he must wait until she's nine. Go a little bit lower, Rob. The haunting photo of an older man and a little girl standing horrified next to the time the youngster had allegedly been exchanged by her father for money for a man who already has two wives. It was reported by AMU.tv. Go a little bit lower, Rob. And the marriage was allegedly set up to take place on Friday in Helmut Province, but the Taliban stepped in to arrest both men involved. No charges were brought against them, but they were forced to creep to, forced to creep to wait until the girl is nine years old for him to take her home. UN Women reported last year

• 1:40:24Patrick Bet-David?

  that it's been 25% rise in child marriages in Afghanistan. After the Taliban banned girls' education in 2021, they also said that there's been a 45% increase in childbearing across the country in the same year as the Taliban came to power after the US heavily exited the night. Watch it go a little bit lower. This is the picture, Rob. That's the, that's the six-year-old kid?

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  Disgusting.

• 1:40:47Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean.

• 1:40:48Speaker 02

  When they say Mohammed, when he had, I think her name was Aisha, she still had her dolls with her when he married her. How is this a real religion? You know, it's just. We just talked about all these beautiful things about Christ and him coming and suffering and his humility and his passion. All these things. It's a beautiful story. It's very compelling. And then you see Mohammed as a warrior and then he's, you know, there's even the story if he once tried to commit suicide and he marries this, you know, he's a polygamist and yet marries this girl. And I'm just thinking, how, I don't understand how you would think that this is the true religion, but

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  that's where I'm at. I just, I don't understand why people and people and Muslims come after me all the time online because I talk about Islam. I'm not ashamed to talk about it. And I just come back to, well, let's look at the founder of your religion. He's either really a prophet or he's not a prophet. I don't, he didn't do any miracles. I, he just seemed to live a bad life. I'm saying not a prophet.

• 1:41:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Two billion people.

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:41:53Patrick Bet-David?

  How does that happen?

• 1:41:56Patrick Bet-David?

  How does that happen? You know, you go to a company and you use a product that's bad. Eventually people figure out the product doesn't work. Keeps breaking. You buy a toy, keeps breaking, keeps breaking, keep them like, I'm not going to buy this anymore. I'm going to go buy this other company.

• 1:42:10Patrick Bet-David?

  What has attracted this product to grow that the way that it, that it has?

• 1:42:15Speaker 02

  It might be better than the product they had before. That's the only thing that.

• 1:42:20Patrick Bet-David?

  What did they have before?

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  Anamism, paganism.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  You know.

• 1:42:26Patrick Bet-David?

  So the alternative, this seemed more peaceful than that.

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  Not peaceful, maybe just more true than, you know, worshiping an idol or an animistic ancient religion. And also Islam, when it comes to a region, does bring a certain societal stability.

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  I think Muslims in 2025, when we were talking earlier about Christians need to think about politics and culture and society theologically. I think Islam in 2025 does do that much more than the average Christian does. And so I think, you know, when Muslims come to a region, the people might see a certain lift in culture. We may look at that and be like, I don't want that. But maybe if you grew up in Somali Somalia, you're like, that is a benefit. I'll take it. I don't know.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  What do you think?

• 1:43:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Um, why do I think to?

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, why do they still have strong sails 1400 years later?

• 1:43:31Patrick Bet-David?

  I think fear is a very powerful tool.

• 1:43:36Patrick Bet-David?

  I think

• 1:43:40Patrick Bet-David?

  everybody wants to believe in something.

• 1:43:44Patrick Bet-David?

  And the moment something catches and has momentum, the amount of people that want to validate the credibility of whatever it is, it decreases. It's just whatever the surface level story is, that's enough for me to get involved instead of me having to fully go deeper. Now, the argument could be Muslims pray more often than others. You know, the amount of times they pray, the level of discipline, how much tougher it is. You know, but then you go look at the Jesuits on how they were, the amount of universities in America that are Jesuits. I mean, the list is massive. And if you go, there's a book I read many years ago called Jesuit Leadership.

• 1:44:26Patrick Bet-David?

  And how they used, you were talking about earlier that for Stoicism, 30 days, go drink the worst wine and worst bread and hey, is it that bad? Is it that bad? Jesuits were famous for doing a lot of that back in the days. To kind of get you to be stronger, these are some of the Jesuit schools we have in America.

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Boston College, College of the Holy Cross, Creighton, Fairfield, Fordham, Georgia, Gonzaga, Loyola Marymount, I mean, you got a list of them, Marquette, yeah, you got a lot of them, right? St. Joseph. So, you know, and they're known for their level of discipline. That's the pride of, you know, how disciplined they are. I don't know. I think the targeting and when it was and where it was, the fact that it continues, you know, and it's not like they're converting a lot of people. Their game isn't conversion, it's internal. You know, it's, it's, the level of growth with family and how women, they can't say much.

• 1:45:23Patrick Bet-David?

  You have to be fully to what man says, but systematically they've grown exponentially.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  Their birth rates are good.

• 1:45:31Patrick Bet-David?

  It's dropped down a lot. It used to be 4.5.

• 1:45:33Speaker 02

  You know, it's interesting, the Sunni Muslims, which is the bigger Muslim group, not that, well, you know, Shiite, they say that you can practice abortion and contraception up to, I think, the first trimester. So, that's kind of a big deal. Christians historically have been opposed to that, certainly abortion in all trimesters, then historically opposed to contraception. So, I wonder as Western medicine hits these regions, will, how long will it take for contraception and maybe even abortion to drop those numbers? Because remember, a lot of these Muslim nations are still in third world status. We'll see.

• 1:46:14Patrick Bet-David?

  We will see. Last question before we wrap up. You know, you're seeing the last three years, what happened with the rise of Israel, Hamas, the controversy back and forth. Now there's concepts they're using as the woke right, you know, you know, Israel, AIPAC, all of that, Charlie Kirk comments about loyalty Christians have to the church, Israel. No, that's not true. That's nowhere. It says that and it's, where is, where are you at? Because you come from a background of. You know, PhD in philosophy, okay?

• 1:46:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Then, you know, a Vescovo priest, then, you know, Catholic, last, you said 20 years, it's been almost 2005, I think, or 2000?

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  2006 is what I think, 19 years.

• 1:47:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. So, what is your position with this sensitive topic that some say divided a bit of the Republican Party and got a lot of Democrats to leave the Democratic Party, become independents and Republicans?

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's a complicated topic and I've weighed into it pretty heavily. I follow the historic, traditional Catholic teaching, which is, Christ came preaching the Kingdom of Heaven. He came first to his own, the Jewish people, and many of them followed him. Peter, John, Paul, Stephen, these are all early, the Blessed Virgin Mary, St. Joseph. But for the most part, he was rejected. And St. Paul in Romans, Chapter 9, he says to the Gentiles, the non-Jewish Christians, he says, "Look, don't brag that you're part of God's people now, God's kingdom, and don't

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  be dismissive towards the Jewish people because they're part of the original vine," you know? "And because they were broken off and you were grafted in, in a way unnaturally, and you're there, you can't just mock and belittle the branches that were broken off, you know? Be humble, you know, have faith." I think that's the right, the right attitude. I don't think Christians should belittle or mock Jewish people that don't believe in Jesus Christ, but I think it is very clear that Christ came preaching the Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God, calling people into the Kingdom, and there's one Kingdom of God, there's not two or three, there's one. And that, I believe that Christians are the chosen people. Those who are faithful to the new covenant of Jesus Christ, we belong to the Bride of

• 1:48:49Speaker 02

  Christ, the mystical body of Christ, the Church. And people will say, "Oh, that's anti-Semitic," and you're right, but if Jesus is the Messiah and he is the King of the Jews, and he said he was... Then that is the final and expressed will of God the Father for the world. And we need to help, you know, our Jewish, I think, family and friends to, to come in to know and love serve Jesus Christ. I think that's the way to go. But, um, so the idea that Ted Cruz puts forth and a lot of these dispensationalists and a lot of people in MAGA that like, Israel, Israel, Israel, the Bible says we must give missiles to Israel, we must fund these wars.

• 1:49:30Patrick Bet-David?

  What book is that in the Bible?

• 1:49:33Speaker 02

  Well, they, they claim Genesis, but if you look it up, God says to Abraham, "Those who bless you, I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse." And in Galatians, St. Paul says, "Those who are in Jesus Christ are the children of Abraham and the heirs of the promises." So the Apostle Paul in the New Testament says, "If you believe in Jesus, you are the child of Abraham and the heir of his promises." So that tells me that Christians, although we are grafted in, we are part of the people of God. We are, you could call, the new Israel. And so I don't, the idea, it's called dispensationalism. It's a, technically a Christian heresy. It's the idea that God has two peoples. He has Plan A for Jews, Plan A for Bs, there's

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  Israel, there's the church, and God doesn't really mix those together. Uh, and it's more and more the role of the church to help financially and militarily support Israel. That's a new doctrine. It was invented by a guy named Darby in the 1800s. It was popularized in the early 1900s by the Schofield Bible. Schofield was a, was not a good man. He left his wife. He was a drunk. He forged checks. He was a bad guy. He may have been funded by shady people. So this whole theology comes from kind of a dark place, and I think it's leading us as Americans, and with policy being put banking on this theology, I think is very dangerous. People need to check it out. They need to figure out where this comes from.

• 1:50:58Patrick Bet-David?

  How do, how do you do that? How do you do that? How do you get the two sides? Uh, what, what's the, because it's not pretty, you know?

• 1:51:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:51:06Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not pretty. And this, this could, this, this little division allows the, the devil to get in, and that's exactly where he likes it. He likes seeing a place like this, right? The division that's taking place. And it's not like it's a friendly debate. There's true animosity on the two opposing sides. How, how do you, how do you unify? How do you get both sides to? Work together or just simply unify them. How do you do that?

• 1:51:32Speaker 02

  You can't. You can't. I mean, we have to be honest. Sometimes when you're in business, there's not, there is not a unifying solution. The claims of Israel in 2025, there is no compromise position with their claim. So that leads, leads us to a division, you know, and I, I don't know where that goes. But, you know, we've been talking about this two-state problem for decades and we'll probably be talking about it for decades to come because

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  I think the, the Israeli position is they're not going to budge.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  This is, this is their belief. This is their constitution. This is what they want. So I don't know how you, I don't know how you unify with that. What do you think? Is there, is there a way?

• 1:52:19Patrick Bet-David?

  I thought you were capable, man. I brought, I brought a guy here that's, you know, PhD and all this stuff and we're going to find a way to solve this issue. That was the outcome of today's podcast. You and I together. I guess we got work to do, buddy. Both of us. We got work to do. But really enjoyed meeting you. Pleasure having you on. Truly enjoyed it.

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  Such an honor to be on PBD. This is a great podcast. Like I said, my wife's a huge fan from day one and I've been listening. It's kind of surreal being here with you. I did get you a gift. This is a rosary. I know you're not Catholic, but this was blessed by the Pope.

• 1:52:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I love it. Thank you. I appreciate it.

• 1:52:54Speaker 02

  And I got, and here's a copy of my book, God Signed It For You, Christian Patriot.

• 1:52:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You're the man. I, I appreciate this. The 12 Ways To Create One Nation Under God, Christian Patriot. Folks, go place the order. It's coming out September 2nd. Be a pre-order. And by the way, the foreword, Harrison Butker, you want to talk about that?

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  Harrison Butker's, I mean, have you ever had him on?

• 1:53:14Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I've never had him on. He's a total star.

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  Remember he got in trouble because he gave that speech about women, you know, family and all that. So he wrote like a banger foreword to this book. And Harrison's a friend of mine and just a great father, great man of God, good Catholic guy. And yeah, so he wrote the foreword to it and it's excellent.

• 1:53:34Patrick Bet-David?

  How many kids does he have? Tell me he's got like 20 kids. Can you pull up how many kids he's got? Let's see.

• 1:53:38Speaker 02

  Three, maybe, maybe pregnant with four.

• 1:53:43Patrick Bet-David?

  How many kids you got, Bud? Come on, tell us. Personal life, he's got three kids? Three children. Maybe he'll leak-

• 1:53:49Speaker 02

  He lives right here.

• 1:53:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  Butker is a devout traditionalist Catholic.

• 1:53:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Like you, so he's gonna go to eight. He's got to, he knows-

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  He's gonna pass me.

• 1:53:56Patrick Bet-David?

  He's a pretty competitive guy. Brother, was great having you on, man.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:54:01Patrick Bet-David?

  And hopefully one of these days I'll get a chance, is it Joy? Am I saying it?

• 1:54:04Speaker 02

  Joy, my wife's Joy.

• 1:54:05Patrick Bet-David?

  My wife's Jennifer, hopefully one of these days-

• 1:54:07Speaker 02

  Wonderful.

• 1:54:07Patrick Bet-David?

  We'll get the wives to meet each other. Take care, everybody, God bless, bye bye, bye bye.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm Dr. Tagler Marshall and I run a podcast and write books on philosophy, theology, Catholicism. My wife and I have eight children, so if you'd like to connect and ask me any questions on any of these topics or anything else, please connect with me on Manect.

• 1:54:30Speaker 00

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