SYMHC Classics: S.S. Arctic

This 2014 episode covers the collision of the S. S. Arctic with another ship in a fog in 1854. The resulting panic led to the deaths of most of the passengers. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Holly Frey?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argentix. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 2:18Holly Frey?

  Happy Saturday. The SS Arctic sank on September 27th, 1854, or 171 years ago today, on the day this episode is coming out. Our episode on this disaster is today's Saturday classic.

• 2:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Please excuse our pronouncing the word Newfoundland the way we were taught to pronounce it in school, which is also how it's listed as pronounced in American English dictionaries, rather than the way many Canadians have told us that it ought to be pronounced.

• 2:48Holly Frey?

  This episode originally came out on January 15th, 2014. Enjoy.

• 2:56Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 3:07Holly Frey?

  Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:12Holly Frey?

  And if there's a thing we get lots of requests for, it is more maritime and shipwreck stories.

• 3:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yep.

• 3:17Holly Frey?

  So we're going to head back to the ocean today. And this particular incident is often held in a particularly tragic light, because it seems that in the sinking of this ship, which was the SS Arctic, the, what we now today perceive as a rule of women and children first, and the captain goes down with this ship, those things did not hold true. None of the women or children aboard the vessel survived the sinking, spoiler alert. And the captain did survive, even though he did not expect to.

• 3:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 3:47Holly Frey?

  He did not abandon ship, but he did survive the ordeal.

• 3:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, we'll also talk about this whole women and children first idea.

• 3:54Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  End of the episode.

• 3:55Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Once we have all this context under our belts.

• 3:58Holly Frey?

  Yeah, there's some cool, modern statistical analysis that's been done, as well as some research on sort of where that concept came from.

• 4:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:07Holly Frey?

  And it puts things in an interesting light, I think, when we talk about shipwrecks.

• 4:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. So we're going to start with talking about the SS Arctic.

• 4:15Holly Frey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it was completed in 1850, and by every account, it was a really glorious ship. She was the third of four Atlantic steamers in the Collins fleet, and they were recognized as just the finest of their time when they were introduced. The other ships were the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the Baltic.

• 4:34Holly Frey?

  And the pride of the Collins Line of New York, which was founded by Edward Night Collins, the Arctic, was a wooden-hull paddle-wheel steamer that was designed to carry both cargo, a small amount, and up to 200 passengers. Although the passenger space was expanded to accommodate 280 passengers in 1851. And it was 285 feet long, which is about 87 meters, and it weighed in at 2,856 tons.

• 5:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Although it launched on January 21, 1850, its maiden voyage didn't happen until October 27 of that year.

• 5:12Holly Frey?

  And like her three sister ships, the Arctic could maintain a speed of 12 knots, which was really fast for the time. And in February of 1852, the Arctic set a record for the fastest eastbound crossing of the Atlantic, hitting a speed of more than 13 knots and sustaining it for a while.

• 5:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  When the Arctic started its career, it was part of a lucrative contract that the Collins Line had with the United States government to be a mail runner between America and Great Britain. And in addition to their income from mail service, they competed with the well-established Cunard Line, which came out of Britain for passenger service.

• 5:50Holly Frey?

  Yeah, and initially, the Collins Line did very well against Cunard. Their ships were really big and beautiful. They were brand new. They could run several knots faster than the Cunard fleet. But the cost of ongoing maintenance of this advanced machinery that was in the Collins ships did draw off some of their competitive edge. And sometimes it would put their ships out of rotation while they were being serviced. So when you see sort of a business analysis of the situation, it's like Collins arrived on the scene and initially stole a lot of business from Cunard. And then it kind of leveled out as it became apparent that, you know, they couldn't always be running all of the ships. And it did cost a lot. So their their initial wide profit margin shrank a little bit as it had to be allocated into just maintaining the fleet.

• 6:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  On Wednesday, September 20th, 1854, the SS Arctic departed from Liverpool on what would it be its last voyage. Onboard were 233 passengers and 150 or so crew members. The captain was James C. Luce.

• 6:55Holly Frey?

  And on September 27th, so a week into the voyage, the ship entered into a thick fog while it was approaching the Grand Banks, which is southeast of Newfoundland, Canada.

• 7:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Also in the fog was the French vessel Vesta, which was headed for Grand Vie, France. When the Vesta was spotted, they sounded the alarm, but both ships were traveling at full speed and it was just too late. A collision was unavoidable at that point.

• 7:22Holly Frey?

  And while it may sound incredibly reckless for a ship to be running ahead full in dicey visibility, it was actually policy at this time in the Collins Line to run through a fog as quickly as possible so that they could clear the visual obstruction in the shortest possible time. Yes, this policy was, as unwise as it sounds, though it was not uncommon for ships to do this at the time because the Vesta was doing a similar thing. So I feel like it's important to mention that this was not a poor judgment call on the captain's part. That was just standard operating procedure.

• 7:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 7:56Holly Frey?

  To get in a fog and gun it.

• 7:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  It does in sort of a Hindenburg kind of a situation.

• 8:04Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 8:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  In hindsight.

• 8:06Holly Frey?

  What a poor idea.

• 8:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Both of the ships were damaged in the collision and initially, it was believed that the Vesta, in spite of having this iron hull, had been damaged much worse. This belief was so pervasive that the passengers and the crew of the Vesta started traveling to the Arctic, but it became quickly apparent that the Arctic was sinking and was not going to help anybody in the situation.

• 8:32Holly Frey?

  And the Arctic's wooden hull had been basically annihilated by the iron hull of the Vesta. There were multiple holes and the ship quickly took on water. And the speed of the ocean rushing in through these multiple large holes caused a panic aboard the Arctic.

• 8:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  The captain directed the crew to point the ship toward the closest land, which was Cape Race. And they started to accelerate toward it, but they took on more and more water and started to sink faster. Within four hours, the ship's furnaces were taking on water and that just stopped the steamer dead.

• 9:08Holly Frey?

  And meanwhile, the panicked crewmen did not follow the captain's orders to prioritize the lives of the women and children, and instead, many of them jumped into the lifeboats themselves.

• 9:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  The first attempts to launch the lifeboats resulted in those boats being destroyed and the men aboard were lost. Subsequent boats did launch successfully, but most of them were lost at sea. A large raft that was assembled from the wreckage started out with nearly 80 passengers, but all but one of them were eventually swept into the water.

• 9:41Holly Frey?

  And only two of the lifeboats reached Newfoundland, carrying a total of 45 men. And two thirds of those men, I think it's 31 men and 14 as the numbers, two thirds were crew members and only 14 were passengers.

• 9:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Captain Luce had tried to save his unconscious son. Although as the ship continued to break apart, he was hit in the head by a piece of debris and killed. The captain managed to scramble aboard a paddle box and use it as a raft, and he and two other men were eventually picked up by the Cambria. The Cambria was captained by John Russell and it picked them up on September 29th.

• 10:23Holly Frey?

  So, all 109 of the women and children that were aboard were killed, as well as 149 male passengers and 92 crew members.

• 10:35Holly Frey?

  And then I think we should have a note on these numbers because the actual number of deceased fluctuates a good bit amongst accounts. You'll see anywhere from 285 to 351 listed. So the counts, even in women and children, passengers and crew should not be taken as absolute. Some passengers managed to make it to the vesta and they would have been theoretically reported and others were picked up adrift in the water, but they, there wasn't always a clear line of record as to what had happened to everybody. So even like the captain's account, which we'll get to in a bit, he lists the 233 passengers, but other historical accounts will list different ones. So just

• 11:20Holly Frey?

  keep that in mind that there's some sponginess to the math on this whole thing.

• 11:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Well, and at the point that he was rescued, he'd been in the water for a couple of days.

• 11:28Holly Frey?

  Yeah. So we, we do not, we cannot imagine his mental state.

• 11:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  No.

• 11:33Holly Frey?

  Although based on his description, which we'll get to shortly, it was an extremely rough experience, as you would imagine.

• 11:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Also aboard the ship during this wreck were E K Collins's wife and his children, and they naturally, based on those numbers that we just said, did not survive.

• 11:50Holly Frey?

  The vesta did manage to make port in St. John's three days after the collision. And accounts of the time kind of talked about the great skill of her captain at managing to, to take that damaged ship into port. But before we get to the next little bit of business and how this affected the Collins line, would you like to take a moment and talk about our sponsors?

• 12:11Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 12:15Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis. SMA and other rare autoimmune conditions. Each episode explores hope, progress and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up

• 12:59Holly Frey?

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• 15:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  So, let's get back to what happened once people realized the death toll.

• 15:44Holly Frey?

  Yeah, so as news of this horrible incident reached news outlets and the shore, the disproportionate amount of the crew survivors versus passenger caused a major scandal on both sides of the Atlantic. And it really, really set in motion what was eventually the financial ruin of the Collins Line.

• 16:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  While the American Maritime Company had initially been a huge threat to the established Cunard Line of Britain, the sinking of the Arctic, followed by the disappearance of the Pacific during a voyage in 1856, meant that the Collins Line was basically finished. Despite attempts to revive their reputation with a new and larger vessel named the Adriatic, they went bankrupt just a few years after the Pacific was lost.

• 16:35Holly Frey?

  And as a point of interest, the Cunard Line is still in business today. They did quite well for themselves and survived. And now, we get to Captain Luce's account of what happened.

• 16:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  So, on October 14th of 1854 in Quebec, the captain wrote a letter to E.K. Collins to describe the incident and notify him of his family members' deaths.

• 17:01Holly Frey?

  And the letter begins with, "Dear sir, it becomes my painful duty to inform you of the total loss of the Arctic, under my command with many lives. And I fear among them must be included your own wife, daughter, and son, of whom I took a last leave the moment the ship was going down, without ever expecting to see the light of another day to give you an account of the heartrending scene."

• 17:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  He goes on to say that about 15 minutes after leaving the deck at noon, he heard hard starboard called out from the officers of the deck.

• 17:32Holly Frey?

  And immediately after the crash, Luce himself believed that the primary goal that he and the crew should focus on should be the rescue of the people aboard the Vesta. They really did think that the Vesta was the one that was going to go down. And his account says that his first officer took six men in one of the boats with the intent that they were going over to the Vesta to collect people to bring back to the Arctic.

• 17:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  He also describes the general state of panic and the abandonment of the women and children. He writes, "Finding the leak gaining on us very fast, notwithstanding all our very powerful efforts to keep her free, I resolved to get the boats ready and as many ladies and children placed in them as possible, but no sooner had the attempt been made than the firemen and others rushed into them in spite of opposition. Seeing this state of things, I ordered the boats astern to be kept in readiness until order could be restored, when, to my dismay, I saw them cut the ropes in the bow and soon disappear astern in the fog. Another boat was broken down by the persons rushing at the davits, and many were precipitated into the sea and drowned.

• 18:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  This occurred while I had been engaged in setting the starboard guard boat ready and placed the second officer in charge, when the same fearful scene as with the first boat was being enacted, men leaping from the top of the rail 20 feet, pushing and maiming those who were in the boat."

• 18:58Holly Frey?

  So quite clearly not exactly noble or chivalrous behavior.

• 19:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  No.

• 19:03Holly Frey?

  And this is a quick side note, when we reference firemen in this instance, you probably know by context, but they mean the people that are working in the in the steam engine area, not firemen in the modern sense of people that deal with fires.

• 19:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. One of his officers, who was Mr. Dorian, did try to get a boat filled with women and children loaded, but when an alarm sounded, signaling that the ship was sinking, the boat was really hastily shoved off with no oars or other safety equipment.

• 19:31Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it sounds like he tried to keep the oars out of the boat on purpose so that these gentlemen that were rushing the boats and just trying to take them would not be as tempted to. But as a consequence, those oars got left behind when the boat was shoved off without sort of a proper check. And Luce describes the sinking, and he says, "In an instant, about a quarter to 5:00 PM, the ship went down, carrying every soul on board with her. I soon found myself on the surface, after a brief struggling with my own helpless child in my arms, and when again I felt myself impelled downwards to a great depth, and before I reached the surface a second time, had nearly perished and lost the hold of my child.

• 20:13Holly Frey?

  As I again struggled to the surface of the water, a most awful and heartrending scene presented itself to my view. Over 200 men, women, and children, struggling together amidst pieces of wreck of every kind, calling on each other for help and imploring God to assist them. Such an appalling scene, may God preserve me from ever witnessing again."

• 20:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Luce goes on to give an account of losing his son and watching the others die slowly around him during the days of drift, and it's truly harrowing.

• 20:41Holly Frey?

  It really is. It's so... It's one of those letters that's clearly written from the point of view of a man who is trying to do his job and write a report, and is clearly messed up by the whole thing. And it should be noted that he captained nine other vessels before taking his position on the Arctic, and he had lost only two of them, which was actually quite a good record. He was considered to be a really skillful navigator and a very able captain. And according to his obituary, when he returned to his hometown of Yonkers, New York after this incident, he, quote, "found two long lines of citizens formed, through which he walked, receiving warm congratulations and hearty welcome."

• 21:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  He then went on to work for more than two decades as an inspector for the Great Western Marine Insurance Company, and he died in July of 1879 of heart disease. He was 79 years old.

• 21:32Holly Frey?

  And we're going to pause one more moment and take another word from a sponsor, and then we're going to talk about some modern analysis of this stuff.

• 21:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:43Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other?

• 22:28Holly Frey?

  Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 25:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  So now, let's look at this whole idea of women and children first.

• 25:09Holly Frey?

  Yeah, that's one of those things where it's a good question to ask where it came from and sort of how that happened. And it's in an interesting coda to this issue. There was a study that was performed by the Uppsala University in Sweden, and it was published in July of 2012. And it suggested that women and children actually have the least likelihood of survival in a maritime disaster.

• 25:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  This study was co-authored by two economists, Mikhail Ellander and Oscar Erikson. And they analyzed data from 18 shipwrecks that happened between 1852 and 2011. They only included the instance that involved at least 100 people, with at least 5% surviving and at least 5% dying. And these statistics took into account the fates of more than 15,000 people from 30 countries.

• 26:01Holly Frey?

  Yeah, and that's those numbers kind of gave me a bit of a jolt at first. I'm like 15,000 people, but it's only 18 shipwrecks. And when you're thinking about it in the context of a shipwreck like this, where it's roughly 300-ish people, that seems impossible math. But then when you think about the more modern ones,

• 26:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 26:18Holly Frey?

  cruise liners, for example, can carry anywhere between 2 to 6,000 people, depending on their size. So that kind of makes up for those, what seems like a big number gap, maybe on first look. And the Titanic, which was included in this study, had three times more women survive the incident than men, but this turned out to be the exception rather than the rule. A similar outlier was the HMS Birkenhead, which sank in 1852. And in fact, the Women and Children First Rule is sometimes referred to as the Birkenhead Drill, because that ship sinking off the coast of South Africa is usually recognized as the first time that order was ever given. So all of the women and children that had been aboard the Birkenhead

• 27:02Holly Frey?

  did actually survive, while many soldiers just stood there silently sinking with the ship into shark-infested waters.

• 27:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  According to Ellender and Erickson's findings, women were only half as likely to survive a shipwreck as men. Crew members had an 18.7% greater chance of survival than passengers, and only seven out of 16 captains actually went down with the ship in their dataset.

• 27:28Holly Frey?

  And furthermore, women had the worst survival rates on British vessels, even though the Women and Children First Order is documented as having been given much more frequently on British ships than other vessels.

• 27:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, and today, people look at it as sort of a Victorian British sensibility in particular.

• 27:49Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Prior to this research, there had been a theory that selfish behavior would more likely erupt on fast sinking ships, while a slower sinking would allow people who were involved to stay calmer and exhibit more socially accepted behavior patterns.

• 28:07Holly Frey?

  But Elsendor and Erickson found that it was actually the captain's behavior rather than a time-sensitive situation that tended to determine the crew's behavior. So in only five of those 18 sinkings that they studied was the women and children first order issued by a captain.

• 28:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Elsendor frames this information as an insight into human behavior. He says, although maritime disasters are tragic events, they can contribute to our understanding of how people behave under extreme stress and when it is a matter of life and death.

• 28:38Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I think it's one of those things where it's easy to kind of vilify people or kind of judge them for their behavior, but I don't, I don't know how I would react in such a moment. I don't think you know until you're in it.

• 28:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, well-

• 28:55Holly Frey?

  Unless you've undergone very specific, like, emergency-style training.

• 28:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. Well, and their particular study looks generally at the question of men and women, but not some of the other factors that influence who makes it off the ship and who doesn't. Like, on the Titanic, for example, first-class women and children had a pretty astounding survival rate.

• 29:17Holly Frey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  But women and children in steerage did not-

• 29:21Holly Frey?

  Not so much, yeah.

• 29:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  So it was not quite so much women and children first, as it was rich women and children first, when it came to the Titanic in particular. I kind of, after I read your notes, I kind of went down this rabbit hole of the whole idea of women and children first and where it comes from and what it means today, when, since when it first came about was in the 1850s, and that was a very different time in terms of gender relation and, gender relations and sort of the perception of women as both whether women were perceived as weak or strong, and whether women were perceived as like, actual autonomous people or objects.

• 30:00Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 30:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  And so I kind of went down a crazy rabbit hole of that. And it reminded me in a way of how I've, I've traveled by ship several times in the past few years and we always have a safety drill. And the safety drill is always about getting everyone off the ship. It's about like every person knowing where they need to go to get on a lifeboat. And every ship having enough lifeboat accommodations for every person on the ship to make it off safely.

• 30:26Holly Frey?

  Yep.

• 30:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  And the only real reference to children that has come up in the, uh, the ships that I have been on has been that, um, for the parents, if their children are not with them, the parents are to go to their lifeboat station and their children will be brought to them by crew. Cause all the children have to have little wristbands or whatever on saying, this is my lifeboat station. So it's like, there are still special accommodations for children. Uh, but other accommodations seem to be based on like, uh, actual threats to people's safety. So people who may have a mobility impairment that need to be assisted with getting off the ship. And not so much based on gender or class.

• 31:06Holly Frey?

  Yeah. And it is also a very different time in terms of now, uh, this is kind of always referenced as part of the Titanic's legacy.

• 31:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:13Holly Frey?

  Now there are enough lifeboats for everyone.

• 31:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  They did that on purpose. Yes.

• 31:18Holly Frey?

  Whereas there were not, that was not standard operating procedure for a very long time.

• 31:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 31:24Holly Frey?

  So it did become a matter of who do we save? And there have been some interesting discussions, if you kind of trawl around the internet and like maritime interest boards at all, uh, where discussions will come up of, well, women and children are less likely just physically to survive something like hypothermia, adrift at sea than men might. So in saying women and children first, are we in fact dooming everyone to die?

• 31:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 31:49Holly Frey?

  And that gets into a very interesting arena of discussion and can get very heated very quickly. So if you are not ready for very grown up angry talk, don't visit those boards.

• 31:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, it definitely does seem to come from a, a sense of like chivalry.

• 32:02Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  And what we might classify today as benevolent sexism, uh, which we, I don't think we've talked about that on this podcast, but, but we have on our, our prior podcast before talked about the idea that there is sometimes sexism is intended.

• 32:16Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  To, to be benevolent, even though it doesn't really play out that way when you follow it to its logical end. Um, so it's framed that way rather than any kind of practical sense of actually ensuring the survivability of the group.

• 32:31Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it gets into very interesting stuff. And I like that they're, um, the study that was done in Sweden to analyze all of this covered such a nice wide range of, you know, 1850s to modern day cruise ships.

• 32:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 32:46Holly Frey?

  Cause that's a pretty wide, uh, variety. For example, now we have enough boats for everybody, but even so, they're finding that still.

• 32:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Holly Frey?

  And men have better survival rates.

• 32:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Well, the differences between first class and what used to be called steerage are much different now.

• 33:02Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Yeah. So that's today's maritime story. Uh, we'll have more, I'm sure, but everybody loves a good shipwreck tale. And it did, this one is interesting to me because it did bring up so many, um, interesting questions about, uh, how people handle panic and fear and.

• 33:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 33:23Holly Frey?

  I, I can't judge anybody. I don't, I don't know what I would do.

• 33:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email address is [email protected]. And you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 33:53Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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