Israel Adesanya: Becoming World Champion Was The Lowest Day Of My Life

Israel Adesanya is the reigning UFC Middleweight champion, and one of the meanest fighters in the world right now. But in this conversation Israel gives a glimpse on what really drives fighters on, because Mixed Martial Arts isn’t just a physical contest, it’s a mental one too. Moving from Nigeria to New Zealand when he was still a child and different from other children in his class, fighting was Israel’s path out of bullying, seclusion, and low self-confidence. But winning alone hasn’t brought Israel happiness, in this episode you’ll find out what it’s REALLY like to be UFC World Champion. He’s so much more than that kid with a dream now. An international phenomenon, Israel brings us the exclusive on his path to the top like he’s never told it before. Follow Israel: Twitter - https://twitter.com/stylebender Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stylebender Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Presenting the interim UFC middleweight champion, Israel Al-Masayyan.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Oh shit. I know when it's all said and done, when I'm dead, my name will be remembered in history.

• 0:16Steven Bartlett?

  Why does that matter?

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Guys like us, we're not meant to fit in, we're meant to stand out. But I've felt it, it's addicting. I need to do something that's gonna just tame the beast. If not, it's gonna seep in other ways I wouldn't want it to in my life.

• 0:29Steven Bartlett?

  Are you happy?

• 0:31Speaker 01

  I think 2013 was my great depression. I wasn't able to fight and then I just felt like I don't deserve it. This world, one thing I've seen, they'll build you up and then tear you down. People naturally just wanna see you fail. I had to take a hard look at myself and I put that pressure on myself like, "Watch this." I don't feel like I have anything to hide. I put things out there that I probably shouldn't sometimes, but that's my way of being vulnerable when I'm just like, "This is me."

• 0:59Steven Bartlett?

  So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

• 1:15Steven Bartlett?

  Israel.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16Steven Bartlett?

  Thank you for being here. Massive inspiration for me in so many ways and I've watched your rise over the years with inspiration and admiration for so many reasons. Reason number one, we have a, I guess a shared heritage in the fact that we're both from, I'm half Nigerian, you're Nigerian as well.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:33Steven Bartlett?

  And your story, as I read it, it sounded so bizarrely like my story in so many ways. And then the other, I mean, I could, there's an exhaustive list of reasons why you've inspired me personally, but then seeing what you've done with yourself as a brand, as a marketer, again inspired me in a completely different way. And I'll never forget, and I played it for my girlfriend last night, your entrance against Robert Whittaker.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  The first time.

• 1:54Steven Bartlett?

  The first time.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56Steven Bartlett?

  And I'm like, "This guy is breaking the rules."

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, the entrance, for me. That was, I felt like that was my way of staying away from the fight in a way. Cause I know that night, Robert was just like stewing over the fight.

• 2:13Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  He was sleeping. He wouldn't be, no, no, he wasn't sleeping. I'm sure he was just worried about the fight. Thinking about the fight, just thinking about, but for me, I was literally, I fell asleep with my phone in my hand, watching my rehearsals for that entrance. Like, this is gonna look sick replay. Probably replayed it like sixty times the night before. And I fell asleep with my phone in my hand, watching that, just the rehearsals. So it was like, there was no paralysis over analysis. I was just like focused on how sick that was gonna look. And it was fun for me. It was my way of authentically expressing myself with my roots in dancing and just being creative. So when it was time to show out, you know, I showed out, you know, and it was my show this time.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Like, you know, um, when Robert and Calvin Gaston's fight fell out the morning of the fight before two, three, four. Um, that was in, that was in Melbourne, yeah, Rotherham Arena in Melbourne as well. I wanna do an entrance and Dana was like, uh, not allowed, no, can't have it, this and that, rah rah rah rah. So when it was two, four, three, I was like, look, this is my show. I'm doing this entrance. I don't give a fuck what you think. And yeah, I made sure I did it and look how it turned out. It was iconic.

• 3:22Steven Bartlett?

  And you realize though, cause when I, I remember I must have been three AM here when I was watching that. I'm thinking this guy's put more pressure on himself, like he did need to put on himself. He has to win now.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. I love that. I like to gamble, but I like to gamble at the highest level. I like to gamble with like the biggest stakes, you know, cause I feel like whenever I get that win over that. And I, it just, it just feels that much better. And I feel like, I don't know, you just, ah, there's a feeling. I, I don't know how to describe it, but it's just, cause you know, people are watching that, he's like, fuck, like especially those who don't like him, like. Fucking hope this comment gets dropped. Oh, this guy gets knocked the fuck out, you know, thinks he's the man walking out dancing all that shit. So, you know, people naturally just wanna see you fail. They're like, this guy thinks he's that good. On a, like, that was fifty seven thousand one hundred and twenty seven people in attendance. And I put that pressure on myself, like, watch this.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  And yeah, for me, there's something special about just overcoming that. That just gives me that, that rush.

• 4:19Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 4:20Steven Bartlett?

  Speaking of entrances, then, you were born in Nigeria.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 4:23Steven Bartlett?

  Um, as I said, I'm half Nigerian. And then you moved to New Zealand. What, what was the reason why your parents decided to take you out of Nigeria and move you to another country?

• 4:31Speaker 01

  I think it was, um, initially better recognized tertiary education. Cause you know, I mean, when I'm in New Zealand, I sometimes I'll be, you know, talking to a cab driver. And you find out that he was a medical doctor back in Sri Lanka or back in India. And then moved over to, you know, NZ or the Western world for a quote unquote better life. And their, their qualifications aren't recognized in the Western world, you know, but they're a surgeon or something crazy back home. So then they have, they're forced to take these, um, I guess menial jobs or start up a new business. And yeah, they wanted us to have better recognized tertiary education. Yeah, worked out all right for me.

• 5:14Steven Bartlett?

  But you were really smart anyway in, in Nigeria. When you got, when you got to New Zealand, you were smarter than the class. I remember you saying that they thought you were.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah, that, that, but I was like, the, I was in Form One. I remember like it was, um, we're doing two times table and I was just like.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I knew the song in my head.

• 5:30Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Finished and I remember when I finished, everyone was like. Whoa, like, and I'm, I'm the runt of our people, trust me. Like, I'm not the smartest, you know, kid in the class back in Nigeria. So when that happened, I was just like. I, what's up with these kids? Like, this is easy. This is light work. I did Form One actually three times. So I did it first time when I was ten years old. In Nigeria, Bell's Boarding School. And then when I moved to Ghana for about a year and a bit, I had to do. No, about, yeah, a year and a bit, I had to do primary six and then form one again. And then when I moved to New Zealand, I had to do form one again. Then I skipped form two. And then went straight to form three. Cause it was, I just kept, they were like, oh, he's too young, you know, he can't, and each country was like, oh, he's too young to be in form one. So.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, but I wasn't like, I wasn't the most academically gifted kid. I'm smart, but I'm smart in different ways. Yeah.

• 6:25Steven Bartlett?

  When um, when I was reading about your story, the, the other part that really resonated with me was. We, we came from Botswana and we moved to a place called Plymouth in Devon and Cornwall. Which is like a farmland. It's like if you go four hours, yeah. You're four hours into the, the, the end of the country that way.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:41Steven Bartlett?

  Where it's all cows and fields.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:43Steven Bartlett?

  And all white people.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:44Steven Bartlett?

  That's where we moved. And we're the only black family. My mom's Nigerian.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:48Steven Bartlett?

  And um, that process of trying to figure out why I was different to my classmates and why we were poorer and all these.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  I always said, I was like, I never realized I was black till I left Nigeria.

• 6:56Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  And it's not that I didn't know my skin tone. It was just like, I never knew like it was a problem. You know, I never knew like people would, you know, I guess discriminate against me because of my skin tone. And it was weird for me. It was really weird for me to kind of like, almost like another type of culture shock. Like, uh, the one I used was an example was this kid who kept on riding by my house. And the weekend from school and would just like hurl insults. You know, at, at me, at my house, in my house, in the weekend. He took time out of his fucking day. On a Saturday and then go back to your country, black knees and then drive by again and say, oh, you black this, you blah blah blah.

• 7:33Steven Bartlett?

  I'm joking.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  I literally was just like, did I do something to this kid? I know his name even. I remember his name, not his last name, but I was just like, fuck, like, what did I do to this kid to like? Did I, did I do something? And then that Monday. It was either the Monday or Tuesday, the following week, he pulls up to me and says, what a black boy. And I was having a bad day already. And this is after like lunchtime when it was about to end. And he pushed me and I remember just wailing on him, just threw him to his K block, beat his ass, threw his B block, beat his ass. And I just, I was crying the whole time, just beating him up. And I wasn't a fighter back then, but I was just fed up and pissed off, like, who the fuck is this kid? Like, first of all, you harassed me all weekend and then at school you're harassing me? Yeah, he never did that again after that. Yeah.

• 8:16Steven Bartlett?

  What was your relationship like with your race at that point? Cause I, I gotta be honest, I started like relaxing my hair and I started, I did. And I was trying to, I was trying to be white.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  I was trying to be fit in, like there was a point even like, I started to try and talk like the Kiwi kids. I tried to like use the same slang, I still do, but like just cause I'm part of the culture. But like, I really tried to like fit in, fit in. And I don't want you mean about relaxed, I was relaxing my hair because I thought it was cool. You know, it wasn't because I was trying to fit in, but there was bits and pieces where I was just like, man. Cause everyone just wants to belong, you know, especially as kids, you know, you just wanna be part of a tribal fit in. But then, yeah, when, it took me a while to realise that I wasn't meant to fit in. Like guys like us, we're not meant to fit in, we're meant to stand out. So eventually I had to kind of stand, it took me a while to kind of learn how to stand ten toes deep in my own light.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  But yeah, I was there at one point, you know, trying to fit in and trying to make sure, almost.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Like even during lunchtime, if I wanted to go to the talk shop, right? I would take the long way, I would like a rat or mouse, I would scurry along the edges of the school. So I don't get fucked with and it would take longer, twice as long, three times as long. But at least I didn't have to just walk through and get fucked with, you know, on the way to the talk shop or something. Cause I spent most of my time in the library during lunchtimes, um, I think in Form Three. Yeah, just cause it's safe in the library.

• 9:40Steven Bartlett?

  What do you mean by getting fucked with? What would happen if you walked directly to the talk shop?

• 9:43Speaker 01

  I know someone might just throw an apple at you or, you know, something stupid. Like someone might run up behind you in town, down trial you, you know, uh, or trip you. Or just chase you, try and beat you up for fun and people, other kids are stupid, you know, you're, I was in a boy's school as well. So you know, it's all these boys, but.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  I know, like I'll just pent up emotions and unresolved trauma and don't know what to do with the newfound hormones. And there's just like.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Like little chimps and yeah, see that's I know, yeah, definitely. So it's like, yeah, we didn't know, I, for me, it was just, yeah, as an adult now, I look at it. I'm just like, man, we didn't know what the fuck we were doing. Like, who, who led us, like, who led us outside? You know, but um, it's all part of the learning experience, I feel. It's all part of growing pains. Like, I know when I have kids, I know exactly what I'm gonna tell them. Uh, how to handle themselves, if, if you know what I mean.

• 10:44Steven Bartlett?

  What are you gonna tell them?

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Well, one of the ones is hit hard, hit first. To be honest, like, I'll get like this whole thing, I remember just like, you know, oh, don't, don't hit them first. You, you know, like, if they touch you, then you, I'm like, nah, fuck all that. Cause the first punch matters. The first punch matters. So if someone like, you know, is talking to me and pushing me around, pushing me around, smack them. Like, they'll learn first, like firsthand, like, okay, don't fuck with that kid. Even if you might win, at least he's not gonna be like, make it not easy for them to fuck with you. You know what I mean? So that's one thing I'm, I'm definitely gonna teach my kids is like, just make sure you're unfuckable, unfuckable with. Yeah.

• 11:25Steven Bartlett?

  When I look back at my early years and, you know, having studied a bit of childhood psychology, I realized how like formative and important those early years are. And we, we're basically as adults, like, living out the stories we told ourselves about ourselves as kids and seeking validation from all the things that

• 11:38Speaker 01

  All that childhood traumas and whatnot. Yeah.

• 11:40Steven Bartlett?

  What, so what, what was left behind as you became an adult?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  A lot.

• 11:44Steven Bartlett?

  Talk to me about that.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  One thing, I can't wanna go deep. Definitely being a kid that moved from Nigeria to New Zealand, right? And trying to fit in, I ended up being a people pleaser as a kid. I didn't realize that because I'm trying to fit in, I'm trying to please everyone. And then you don't realize how that follows you into adult life. So there was times and it's still, once in a while, you'd be surprised, it raises its ugly head. But I'm able to identify that monster now and I'm just like, right, I know what that is. Boom, and I kill it straight away. So I've learnt that over years though, but then that people please is still still a part of me. You know, because it was a way of surviving, you know, I'll just make sure these guys are cool. Don't fuck with me, I you know, and I just kind of appease them.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's one thing definitely that that was the result of just, I guess, trying to fit in. It's just people pleasing and it's not, it's not the best way to live. It's not the best way to live because you can't make everyone happy. And someone's always going to find something wrong with what you're doing or how you're living or whatever. So, yeah, I it took me a long time, but eventually I got to the point where I just don't. I really don't care what anyone else thinks, apart from those who I give a fuck about. I care what they think, but anyone else who is not really, I guess I don't have any emotional attachment to. Fuck them, like Bernie Mac said, fuck them, yeah.

• 12:59Steven Bartlett?

  And when you say people pleasing, to be to be to be specific in the examples of you being a people pleaser. Do you mean on social media or like to the public?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Even before social media.

• 13:10Steven Bartlett?

  Or do you mean?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  No, no, before social media, this is when I was a kid, like in high school. People pleasing as in the sense of like, you know, um, someone asks you to do something. You might not want to do it, but you'll do it just because you just sure you want to fit in. Because that guy, you know, he, you know, I guess he's one of the first fifteen jocks who played rugby or whatever. And he's just like, oh, you know, I'll I'll do what he says just because you want to get that. It's almost like clout or social currency, you know what I mean? So, yeah, things like that, but um, yeah, it took me a long time, like I said, to learn and realize those things. This is a lot of self-reflection, years of self-reflection and realizing, because a lot of people don't even realize they're running on old, you know, childhood trauma, like a lot of everyone is.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  So you have to find a way to sit down and just access that with yourself. Through therapy is one of the best ways and then you just work you, it's like reverse engineering. Like, where does that come from? You know, why, why am I like that? Why am I, why do I have that attitude? Why do I think like that? And then, yeah, you and your therapist kind of work that back and realize, you know, where that comes from.

• 14:15Steven Bartlett?

  As I was reading through your story, and you know, you sit here as this unbelievable UFC champion. And then as I read through your story, there's all these little subtle hints of what almost sounds a bit like imposter syndrome. At certain times, like this guy not believing that he's deserving of what he's achieved. And it's, it really sits in contradiction to the guy that did that backflip coming out against Rob Whitaker. Where did that come from? Tell me about that.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  I think some of, just same thing, trauma, childhood trauma, some of that stuff. I've dealt with it very well now, to the point where it's like, there was times, I'm, I use an example when, I think, I was speaking to Forbes not long ago. And we, we dive into this a little bit. So when I, when I beat Rob, right? I wanted my gifts to myself. I bought myself a McLaren seven twenty S. And I, um, the first day I got it, I remember I drove to the gym. Uh, this is at peak, you know, time at the gym, maybe six, five thirty PM or whatever. And I didn't park it at the front of the gym. I parked it at the back of the gym. And I showed some of my teammates, like my close, close, actual teammates, not the people that go to the gym.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Cause sometimes a lot of people like to be like, I'm his roast teammates. Like, no, you just go to the same gym as me. Doesn't mean we're teammates. So I parked it at the back of the gym. And then after my teammates finished working, I was like, yo, come check this out. And I showed them and I was like, like, fuck, look at this shit. Like, cause they know how the work I put in. I, I work hard. But then I'm like, man, I'm not the, I'm not the best student in the gym. So imagine if I can do this, imagine what they can do. So I kind of just, just to share the, share my joy. And then, you know, unfortunately, especially in New Zealand, there's this tall puppy syndrome. And he's that green eyed monster. And I've been that kid. So I, it's easy for me to recognize it in other people when you've, when you've had it with yourself.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  So someone said something, you know, I must be nice. And then started to hear rumblings of, I know, it happens. For me, it was the same thing. I was just like, man, I didn't expect that from someone that I cared about to, to have that kind of rhetoric like, uh. And then I heard like, you know, maybe, you know, like other people, they're more deserving people.

• 16:26Steven Bartlett?

  What?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah. And they kind of just pissed me off.

• 16:28Steven Bartlett?

  There's more deserving people?

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. At the gym because they work harder than me, right, right, right. And like I said, I didn't, if I wanted to flex, I would have parked it in the front of the gym, like. You know, look at my new whip. Hmm. And just to like flex, just show off or whatever. But nah, I parked it in the back of the gym where only like seven people saw it. And the seven people that I really give a fuck about. And I wanted them to see like, look, look at this shit like fuck. If I can do this, imagine what you can do. So when I heard that, I didn't drive it for a week. I just, I just felt shit driving it. I remember driving it home and I just felt like shit. I just parked it in the garage and I just left it there for a week. I didn't drive it because I felt like I, I let those words from that person I gave a fuck about seep into me. And then it sat with me and then I just felt like, oh yeah, I mean, I don't deserve it, you know?

• 17:13Speaker 01

  You know, other people work harder than me at the gym. This and that, rah rah rah rah. But then it took, like I said, about a week. Over that week, cause I mean, it was a fucking sick car. I literally didn't drive it for a week. And got to the point that I realized during that week that towards the end like, well, that's subjective. If they don't think I deserve it, that's their own opinion. That's subjective. That's what they believe. I don't have to believe that. And like you said, that is that, that imposter syndrome thing started to creep in. I was like, look, maybe they don't think I deserve it. But one thing no one can ever take away from me is that I earned it. Every fucking thing I have, I earned it and I earned this fucking whip. And I have a right to drive this thing and flex. And once I got over that hurdle in my head, boom, I was in that bitch and I was whipping it around.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's like that imposter syndrome thing creeped, crept in when I heard that from, and it was through the grapevine as well. But man, I was from someone I really like. I was like, man, why would he say that? I just, I just, and people learn, this is over now. That's a long time ago, you know, this is where it could fight. But it's something, it said more about them than it does about me. You know what I mean? It says more about them than it does about me. So I shouldn't have let that affect me at all. But I did because I give a fuck what that person thought because they are a close person to me. And unfortunately, sometimes it's the ones close to you that will hurt you with that. Yeah.

• 18:31Steven Bartlett?

  There's something really remarkably sort of liberating and amazing to hear a UFC champion talking about imposter syndrome because it really does feel like, it feels like there's, and this is, I know this is an obvious misconception, it really doesn't feel like someone with your swag and confidence could feel those things. You talked there about therapy as well, and when you spoke to Joe Rogan about therapy and about after your UFC debut, that swell you went through, I wrote about this in my book because I got really compelled by this, this really bizarre thing that happened in my life when my company joined the stock market and I'm sat in my room in Manchester and it's my 300 million and I'm figuring out how much money that means I've got, and it feeling like the worst day of my life. And then when I, you know, heard you talking a little bit about how you felt

• 19:14Steven Bartlett?

  after your UFC fight, hiding in the toilet when people are pestering you to ask you questions, and that annoying dude sitting down next to you when you tried to hide.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, after my UFC debut, the after-party, it was, after the fight, it's always, like I said, I get pulled in so many different directions and it's just like, it was my first time in the UFC, so I was my first time experiencing all that. And it's like coffee, it's a stimulant, coffee's a stimulant. So after your UFC debut and you show up like the way I did, you know, I stole the show, I came in and I stole the show and it was just like, cameras, this, oh, we need you to interview this, oh, come talk to this person, talk to this person, da, da, da, da, da. And then I didn't get time to myself till I got back home. And when I was back home and I was in my own house and finally

• 20:05Speaker 01

  away from all the noise and it's just like, phew. And then I remember, it's like coffee, you drink coffee, you got the coffee high and then you crash. So it was literally that, like just lack of the stimulant and I just crashed and I was like, why am I sad? I just found myself being really sad. And I remember, it's probably on my old phone, me documenting my recovery, because I was like, video diaries, that is. I was like, why am I sad? Like, I made six figures in my UFC debut, that's including the bonus as well. Yeah. And I'm just like, there's no need to be sad, I fucking killed that shit. And that's when I started to kind of like take therapy seriously because I was like, this is not, I'm not going to be one of these bad statistics, you know, that you hear about in the, in entertainment. So, yeah, I, um.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I had to, I guess, take a, take a, take a hard look at myself, but then therapy helped with that, because then you find the right person who can kind of help you, I guess, figure you out. And all they do is just ask you the right questions and then show you, I guess, yourself. Yeah.

• 21:05Steven Bartlett?

  Can you, because I heard you say that you picked up tools from therapy that helps you sort of navigate all of that attention in this new position you were in. What were the tools?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Also, um, it wasn't until I fought Brunson that I was able to go back home and just kind of like, um, I keep saying, it's like I came back from prison. Uh, what do you call it? Like, we back into society, regular life normally, you know? It was until I, that was my fourth UFC fight. But then each fight after that, same thing, I'd go back home and I'd just like have this crash. And I had to realize, okay, this, this is something that I can't have happen constantly because it's not healthy. A tool I can say that helped me, um, one of the ones that helped was Charlemagne's book at the time, Shook Ones, Anxiety Playing Tricks On Me. I read that during the, I finished reading that actually during the Brunson fight, that fight week, I finished reading that. And that, I, I, I

• 21:57Speaker 01

  got a lot of gems from that book. But from therapy, one, from therapy, from my own experiences, talking to myself, the self-talk, because you have, we all have negative self-talk, but looking in the mirror and talking to yourself, you know, speaking to yourself like you would to someone you're giving advice to, because when you look in the mirror, you humanize yourself. And I'll start to like, you know, just have a conversation with myself, even like gee myself up if I want to big myself up, things like that. So that's a tool that I feel like is really underrated. And it looks crazy, you know, standing in front of the mirror and talking to yourself, but it's a really powerful tool, if you know how to use it right.

• 22:33Steven Bartlett?

  Fighters don't talk much about their mental health. I think Widdecombe did the other day and you, you kind of thanked him and applauded him for doing that, for being vocal.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, I put him in a dark place after that first fight. And I understand because guess what? He was trying to do the same thing to me. Um, a guy I respect is Tyson Fury, because he's, he spoke about that, you know, to ends, like, and how dark he went. He went to like the depths of hell in his own head. And then he's risen above it. And he says, like, he battles with it every day. I feel like, look, there's your spectrum of physical health. This is super healthy, super ill. If you do not look after yourself and your physical health, you're going to get physically ill. Same way if you don't look after your mental health. You're gonna get mentally ill. So I feel like if you're, it's like someone saying like, you know, I don't go to therapy. Fuck all that shit.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  It's like, well, do you take vitamins? Do you go to the hospital? It's not something to be, you know, shy like, uh, whatever from. It's, I feel like you should look after your mental health the same way you look after your physical health. So once I learned how powerful that was, I'm always on top of it. I slip up, obviously, because I'm human and I get ill. But yeah, I always make sure I'm, I'm on point, though.

• 23:48Steven Bartlett?

  Was that your hardest moment with your mental health after that UFC debut in your recollection?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Hmm, not my hardest. I think two thousand and thirteen was my great depression. There was a time in two thousand and thirteen that life was just like

• 24:06Speaker 01

  a spiraling bad. It's early two thousand and thirteen. I remember at the time my girl left me, the business I was working with was failing. Work was shit.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  I had my job broken in two thousand and twelve and I wasn't able to fight. So I really had no like, not purpose, but like something that I was looking forward to, you know? There was a time during that two thousand and thirteen, there was a time where I was walking Millie home one time. And I remember this is when I was really broke. And I remember just looking in this dairy or like this corner store and I was just like, I wish I could just go in there and be like, look, just give me the money you have. I don't wanna hurt you, but just give me. And I remember just like, it was a fleeting thought and I was like, man. And that made me empathize with people. I was like, this is why some of them do it. They just have no other choice. Obviously, I'm not gonna do it because I'm not, I'm not an idiot.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  But I realized like, this is why some people do what they do because they have no choice. They just wanna eat. I was lucky enough that no matter how bad it got, I always had my parents supporting me. If I had my dad, can you please just loan me a hundred bucks? Can you just give me two hundred bucks? Da, da, da, da. They would always support me. And I never went to them often, but whenever I needed to, they were always there for me. So I never had to go to that point where I was, and I would have never anyway, because I'm not stupid.

• 25:26Steven Bartlett?

  You you refer to that moment as your your Great Depression.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, two thousand and thirteen.

• 25:30Steven Bartlett?

  What got you out of that Great Depression?

• 25:33Speaker 01

  To be honest, once I had my fight, so then I fought in June, I believe, that year, finally, after six or seven months. Cause I had to take time off after the surgery, fighting, and then I realized my purpose again, like, okay, I know what I wanna do. So I didn't fight for a long time, cause it was, yeah, it was it was just really, it was dark times, not, you know, something you're passionate about, something you, what I moved to Auckland to do. And it got taken away from me. So then I wasn't able to do what I wanted to do. And then once I got it back, I just kinda reinstated to myself, like, I know who I am, I know who the fuck I am, so, yeah.

• 26:10Steven Bartlett?

  There's something really sort of telling about that, that your lowest moment was when you'd lost so much, you'd lost connection in terms of your girlfriend. And you'd lost orientation and purpose and something to aim for in your life.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:21Steven Bartlett?

  And you see that in young men. I mean, the the the single biggest killer of men in this country under forty five is themselves.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:27Steven Bartlett?

  It's mad. And it's like, how do we get young men to have a sense of purpose and meaning in their lives in the modern world? How do we get that back into them? And it's funnily enough, I I go to the gym around the corner, I could go to some posh gym, I go to the gym like down there.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:40Steven Bartlett?

  In the in the ends, it's like fifteen pounds a month.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:42Steven Bartlett?

  And it's all black and Asian young men. And when I'm in the gym, I'm looking around and I'm sat there thinking like, cause now I'm on the dragon's den, they they come up to me sometimes. But before that, I was thinking like, the probably the best thing I could do to help um with suicide rates in this country, other than having these kind of conversations is like, put loads of fucking gyms in this country.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 27:01Steven Bartlett?

  You know what I mean?

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. I feel like we were talking about earlier about young men, kids, especially when they become adolescents and they don't know what to do with all this new hormones. They're just filling up their bodies and stuff like that. They need an outlet. Even for me, I've said, after this game is done, after I'm done with this fighting shit, when I have a family, at least. A couple of times a year, I need to do something that's gonna feel like I'm about to die. I feel like I just need to do something that's just gonna just, I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie. So I need to do something that's gonna just like tame the beast. If not, I just feel like it's gonna seep in other ways I I wouldn't want it to in my life, you know? So I need to find a way to tame the beast and I feel like this does.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Martial arts was there's a quote, make savage of the body and civilize the mind, something like that. You know what I mean? Especially as young men, honestly, like they wanna like, you know, sometimes people wanna kinda like discredit athleticism. Or, you know, working out or you're just a jock or this and that. I hate jocks. I was never a jock in school. So I have a really, really special place on my heart for them. But um, yeah, for me, I just feel like just being able to own your masculinity in a way that's not, not toxic. Man, I'm not talking toxic masculinity, but just being able to just like work out and a place where you can be a man and just like throw weights around or.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  I like, I love rolling with my boys, like there's some, I love lifting. Even during lockdown, I was lifting a lot, but there's something to be said when I have a guy like my teammate Brad Riddell or Carlos or Blood Diamond, you know, on my back trying to choke me out. And then, you know, three, two, one, go, and I have to fight the choke. Something primal about that, that just activates this part of my brain that I'm just like, fuck, it's just, yeah, it gets me going.

• 28:50Steven Bartlett?

  Do you worry about that? When, when all is said and done, like you're, you're gonna have these crazy moments of having like sixty thousand people in this arena and coming out doing these like.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I'm ready for it.

• 29:00Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, and then.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  I'm ready for it.

• 29:01Steven Bartlett?

  The high of that, the adrenaline high of that. When that's all, when you're, you know, when you're done with this game, you said, you know, when you lose the love of the game or whatever it is. Do you, do you ponder, do you ponder what that moment would be like for you?

• 29:13Speaker 01

  A little bit, but I I'm, I'm ready for it in the sense that I'm not attached to this. I've already, I know I'm more than fighting, fighting, there's more to life than fighting. So I'm not like one of these guys who is attached, like, you know, I don't even know where my belt is right now, to be honest. I really don't know. I'm not attached to it. I know I'm the fucking champ. I know who I am. I know who I am and I'm a champ without the belt. It's just a fancy tiara. I've said that from the jump, but. I'm not attached to it to the sense that it's my identity, that this is all I am. So when it's all said and done, and I'm, you know, I'm not the UFC middleweight champ anymore. I'm retired. I'm not gonna be like, who am I? I know who I am without the belt. So that's the, that's the blessing in that. But a lot of people don't, a lot of people are like, you see them walk around with the belt constantly.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  And they just, they're attached to that. Like, that's who they are. So when it's gone and it's said and done, that's why a lot of people who are supposed to be retired, still end up talking to the media and finding their way to get their name in the, in this, you know, in the spotlight because they're addicted to that. It's addicting. Trust me. I've been there. I've felt it. It's addicting. Attention. That's, that's the social currency now. Attention, even at the highest level, fame, clout. This is all, these are, these are tangible things. I've seen it. I've seen what it does to people, man. Funny story. I saw this, when I was in New York, I fought Brunson, right? That week, I saw this YouTube video of a guy in Times Square, in New York. He was there regular, easy, you know, just walking around, didn't get bothered.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  And then he went there at nighttime, hired an entourage, hired camera people.

• 30:48Steven Bartlett?

  I saw that.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  That clip. And people were like, starting to like, who's this guy?

• 30:52Steven Bartlett?

  Fake famous dude.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Exactly. Fake famous guy. And they're like, and then the camera guy asked him, so how do you know David? And someone be like, oh, I heard his last album. It was pretty good. Or I heard a single on the radio, or I saw him in Spider. People just lie through their teeth. You know, and just say whatever they think he is. And it's like, you know, you obviously don't know the guy. You can just say, oh, I don't know who he is. You know, and I've had that. So when that day, I'm sorry, that, that week in, in New York, I was doing a shoot for my brand, Engage, in Times Square. I had Jeff and like three other cameras on me. So there's like four cameras on me. He sees people starting to gather around like, oh, who's this guy? And then some people recognized me. They, they start taking pictures. And then before I knew it, I started finding people who didn't even know me.

• 31:36Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And they're just like, I just wanna take a picture.

• 31:38Steven Bartlett?

  Have you ever had someone come up to you? I had this when we went to the podcast awards.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yesterday.

• 31:41Steven Bartlett?

  And they go, hi, um, who are you? And I go, oh, um, Dragon, Dragon's. And they go, bruv.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  The worst one I remember was um, I've used this story a few times, but I was at this bar in Auckland. And there was a table of like four dudes and two chicks and I could tell one of the chick was like the center of attention. So when I came in, the guys were just like, no fucking way stopping, what the fuck, they were just showing me love and all that. And I could see, I could feel her energy and I could see her from the corner of my eye, just like. And then she came up, she's like, excuse me, but who are you? I was just like, ah, don't worry, baby, it's all good. And I was talking to one of the guys taking photos and I could, then she came back again trying to talk to me, I was just like. And then she came, forced me this time, it's like, excuse me, why is everyone giving a fuck? Who are you? I don't know who you are.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  And I was like, baby, I don't know who you are. I just fired her off. I was like, I don't care you don't know who I am. You know, but like the fact that she wanted to let me know that she didn't know who I was, like it was gonna hurt my feelings. I was, and I was just like, baby, I don't know who you are. And I remember her face just like.

• 32:48Steven Bartlett?

  She's not used to being treated like that.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Exactly, so I'm like, I don't care, I forget who I am all the time, you know, but the fact that she thought like it would actually hurt my feelings for her not knowing, I'm like, who the fuck are you?

• 33:00Steven Bartlett?

  How, how, how have you made sense with all this, this noise when you, you walk through places?

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Fuck the noise, as I said.

• 33:06Steven Bartlett?

  But the fame, like what's your relationship, relationship with it? I was thinking about this the other night, I was talking to one of my friends and I was thinking, for me, it's kind of just this thing that's happening outside of me. And I'm observing it like a spectator.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  I like that, I like that perspective. There's no book on this shit, so I've always said like, fuck the fame, but I love the perks. I love the perks of fame, but I just, I don't like being famous, you know what I mean? Have you seen Free Britney?

• 33:31Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Brother, there was a bit in that, that was one of my, like, I was getting anxiety watching the first half of that. There was a bit, she was driving and then she ran through these red lights and the guys were like, look at her, she's crazy. I'm like, yeah, cuz you're fucking chasing her. You're chasing her, she's trying to get the fuck away from you and you're calling her crazy. Man, that whole thing, just the way she, when she was trying to buy gas and everyone was just on her. Uh, I even cringe thinking about it because I'm just like, I would hate, I would have, I would hate to be in that position. Especially like to be with your family, like your family doing that to you, that's crazy. But yeah, um, fame, it's not, it's not, no one's supposed to be famous, it's not a thing, especially with all these gadgets now.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  We're not supposed to have these, we're not supposed to have, um, people who don't do shit with their lives. Have such a loud voice in droves, being able to tell us. Because back in the day, I saw this quote on Instagram, um, yes, uh, maybe last week or this week about like, you know, back in the day before social media, you only heard from doers. You heard from people who were actually doing shit, you rarely heard from complainers. But now complainers are the ones you hear from the most. Because they finally have a voice and they, they can be anonymous and hide behind their, the anonymity. So, yeah, they're the ones who have the big, the big voice now and the doers are just doing. So people start to eventually believe the complainers.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  It's a weird paradox shift now in, in this day and age. So like I said, you have to be able to sift through the noise and I have my ways of doing that.

• 35:10Steven Bartlett?

  And I guess you'd also only hear, if you go back even further from people in your tribe.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Exactly, we're only supposed, was that, we're only supposed to have like certain amount of people we associate with as, as the human animal. But then like social media and the connectivity we have now has just made us connected to the whole world. Made the world a small place that you can just, even confirmation bias, that's another thing we have to be careful about. Like and I, I make sure, because I follow certain people on Instagram that I don't necessarily agree with. But I follow them just to like, hear the other side. I wanna know, just to like, because I don't wanna be surrounded by yes men or people like, oh, I only follow, uh, you know, this because this tells me what I need to know, what I wanna hear. Exactly.

• 35:51Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  So nah, I follow, I follow certain people just because I'm like, uh, they make me feel a certain way, but I'm like. They're not wrong, though. You know, and it's just different ideas. It's not wrong or right. So it's different ideologies. But I'm just like, you know what? I'll tap into that just so I can at least be aware of the other side, what they're thinking. Yeah.

• 36:08Steven Bartlett?

  And that kind of brings me to what I heard you say about Rogan when you defended him because Rogan's one of those people for me as well. Like, I can listen to his shows and his, his podcasts and stuff, and I don't have to agree with everything.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 36:20Steven Bartlett?

  But there's a diverse, yeah, I don't have to agree with his guests, that's what it means, but there's a diversity of opinion.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:25Steven Bartlett?

  So I can, and I feel like people these days, as we've all observed, they don't want to hear anything outside of their own. It's, it's either left or right, and it's, the other side is wrong, and if, and there's nothing in the middle. And if you say one thing that represents the other side, like.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  They just come to you in a box straight away. But that's the thing, I'm like, the, this whole fucking situation we have with COVID now and what we're doing in society is a strange times, man, because people are just, the human animals weird. It's a weird fucking species, because individually we can be smart, but when we're in droves, just, just, just dummies. Just a bunch of dummies in droves sometimes. I'm like, how can a smart person have this idea about this? When you know what's really happening, you really, it's like, if you, if you really step away from it, like you said, just remove yourself from the situation and look at it from a third person, as I'm an observer, just watch it and just be like, I know what that is.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  But there's somehow, the smartest people I've, I know sometimes just have the weirdest way of looking at the world. And I try not to hold it against them, because I'm like, I know you, you're a smart person, but maybe the way you were brought up or your own childhood trauma again, can kind of skew the way you look at the world. So I never hold it against them. I just kind of like, it's not personal, it's not about me, it's about them. So just observe. But yeah, it's weird, man. Very weird, very strange.

• 37:51Steven Bartlett?

  And they're just, I guess, trying to fit in too. They're trying to be part of a tribe.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Exactly, tribe, yeah. So it's like more mentality, even with, um, I, I remember when Andrew Schultz said recently, he's like, on one of his podcasts, he said he regrets getting the vaccine. And yeah, he said he wishes he never did. What's like, people.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  I find this really strange that people like, people don't wanna get duped. People don't wanna get duped. People hate, feel like they got had.

• 38:17Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  And if people, if someone felt like, oh, you know, they, they got duped, they kinda wanna get people into their tribe so can, they can, you know, we've, we've got you on our side. I'm, I don't care what side you're on. I literally don't care whether you wanna do this or you do that. All I care about is how you treat people, how you treat the people around you, the people you interact with. But nah, this damn age, like, I find people asking me the strangest questions, like, and then they'll base their, how they treat you based on that response. Like, are you vaccinated? That was one of the weirdest ones. I was like, why do you care?

• 38:48Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  What does that do for you?

• 38:50Steven Bartlett?

  Well, we need to decide who you are, from that one decision.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  We wanna know what box to put you in. I'm just like, why? So I like to fuck with people and just like, ah, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. We'll find out. But then they're just like, no, but we need to know what you're.

• 39:02Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, we, you know, yeah, who's side are you on?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. I'm like, wh- why do you care?

• 39:07Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And this is the thing with division as well. I've said, like, they, they, divide and conquer. That's the easiest way to break, uh, you know, a, a, a, a nation or a group of people, just divide them and separate them, make them think that one is on the other side and this and that, and make them fight amongst each other. That's how they've done it for years, for centuries. The oligarchs or the Illuminati, or whatever you wanna call it, they divide and conquer. This is how they get it done. So why do you think like they're not doing that right now? In so many different ways, so many different ways.

• 39:37Steven Bartlett?

  I, I consider myself to, to be someone that sits in the middle. So like, sometimes I agree.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't fuck with politics at all. I don't, so you know, Nigerian parents, my dad used to have CNN or BBC on the telly all the fucking time. Constantly, just on repeat, but I just don't watch the news. I, I literally don't listen to it. Um, you know, in New Zealand, we, we used to have, um, like an update with this whole COVID shit on Mondays, I believe, around five P M. I never once was like on a Monday like, ooh.

• 40:05Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, gotta get.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  It's all fucked up. But everyone else is just like, oh, has they, have they made the announcement? I'm just like, hmm.

• 40:12Steven Bartlett?

  Because.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  I get the, I get it new secondhand. I'm like, what do they say? Oh, cool. Are we allowed to? Cause I just, the rules don't apply to me.

• 40:19Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  That's how I feel. I just, I really, and I, it's just my ego talking. I'm not talking the rules of the law. I'm just talking like, no matter what they say, I can do or I can't do. Like example, we were locked down for three months last year in August. During that time, there was things we weren't allowed to do, like train.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  I trained, allegedly. Yeah, but I found ways, like, I just felt like the rules that applied to me, because I mean, in the beginning of the pandemic, trust me, I was scared. I was, I didn't know what this fucking shit was. It felt like the purge. But then eventually, after all the bullshit, after a year and two years, I kind of like, okay. Like everyone else, we, we just knew what was going on. There's some kind of other. I guess, agenda behind it that we have no fucking idea about. I'm not gonna act like I fucking know. But I just know, like, this doesn't make sense to me. It does not make sense to me that, I don't wanna get too deep into all that shit, but like, literally, this makes sense to me. The common sense was just not commoning. It was not common enough. So I was just like, okay, this is, there's something going on here that I'm not fucking with.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  But I'm gonna live my life the best way I know how, in the lines of what I can, allegedly.

• 41:34Steven Bartlett?

  I hear you. When you said at the start about the cartwheel, you, you said, you know, you just wanted to be authentically yourself, and this kind of links to what we're saying now. When I, when I was, I joined BBC One as a dragon, I started thinking about how I defend myself from the inevitability of being cancelled. Either for the people that I speak to here, yeah, and one of the ways that I kind of concluded with my team was, well, if I am always myself, and I don't ever try and convince the press that I'm a good guy.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Bro, this is where, this is the, this is the trap that a guy like John just fell into, because he was always like the pastor's son. He was always like, you know, after a fight, I wanna thank Jesus, you know, I wanna be sponsored by Nike and, you know, all kids. You know, I wanna be someone kids look up to, I wanna be a good role model, rah rah rah rah. Fuck them kids. Fuck all that shit. You know what I mean? I'm like, bro, people try to say, oh, you know, my kid looks up to you. I'm like, raise your own damn kids. Raise your own damn kids, you know, like, one thing, after my UFC debut, some guy, so I, at my after party, I had this shirt, right? Said, good cunt from Engage, classic, sold it, still a big seller.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  And some guy, oh, straight up, it was the beautiful shirt, like, and also it was like a, a player on a famous designer brand, G C. Like, yeah, so we, we, we sold those, we still sell them heaps. But um, this guy came up to me and he was interviewing me at my own after party and I could see he was trying to set me up. So then he's like, oh, so what do you, yeah, so what do you think a T-shirt like that sends? What kind of messages does it send? I'm like, what do you mean? And he thought he fucked with the, he fucked with the wrong one this time. So he's like, what do you think that kind of shirt sends as a message to say? For example, a young, a young kid who looks up to you. And I was just like, oh, really? Oh, so what does that kid look, look up to me for? He's like, oh, for being in your position as a what? A fighter, right?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yes. So that kid just saw what I did about a few hours ago when I beat the fuck out of that guy and he saw where I was taking him. He's just like, no, no, no. I was like, stay there. And I could see him trying to find a way out of that. So that kid just watched me beat this fucking guy to a pulp in his own blood as he spat blood at me. And I beat him in his own blood till the referee dragged me off him. Yeah. Oh, really? So what do you think is doing more damage to the kid? Is, is, is me doing that and as, and the kid looking up to me for that? Or me wearing a shirt that just says, good cunt? It's this whole fucking culture of like stupid language games. You can say that word and that's a bad word and this and that. So, and then I, I can't remember how I flamed him, but I flamed him. There was a bit of an audience as well.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  I flamed him badly. He never released the interview, obviously, because he had no leg to stand on. But he thought he had me, but he didn't realize he fucked with the wrong one. And I just told him, I was like, I think me doing my job it does more damage to the kid for watching than me wearing a shirt that says, good cunt. You know what I mean? And I hate that, the fact that we're playing these, cause even when I do some, I don't do New Zealand media anymore, cause they're too fucking stupid for me. And too, like I did this morning show one time and I was talking, I said blah, blah, blah, something asked. He's like, oh, that's a swear, swear jar, swear jar. I'm like, what the fuck? This is high school? I'm like, I'm an adult. I know you. I've seen you at fucking Ponce de Bebés social club, drunk off your face. I know what you do in the bathroom. You know what I mean?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  So I'm just like, don't try and act like you're holier than thou now and like, oh, you put that in the swear jar. It's like this whipper, what, what, what game are we playing? You're playing this stupid game that's like, oh, we can say these words, but we can't say these words. Like, you're an adult. When the cameras go off, I know how to fuck you speak. I know how you talk, you know? And it's like, why are we pretending we don't speak the way we do because of what? Because we're on TV. It's just, it boggles me sometimes and I start to like, oh, what game are we playing? It's like, it's, it's, it's so stupid. As adults, we're adults. Like, we, we, we talk. This is, this is language. We curse, we swear. But then when the TV comes on, oh, you wanna be proper and you, oh, you must, you'll be, you know,

• 45:30Speaker 01

  prestigious and speak. I'm like, nah, fuck all that shit, man. Like, let's, let's speak the way we normally speak and be authentically ourselves. So that's like, Charlamagne says something, he says, speak your truth so no one can, no one can use your truth against you.

• 45:41Steven Bartlett?

  Amen.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Amen, bro. Like, trust me. Like, I, I'm able to get away with a lot of things I get away with because I never said I'm a saint. I know myself. I am a fucking demon sometimes. Trust. There's no good people, there's no bad people. People are just capable of great good and great evil. You know what I mean? But I just try to do more good than bad. But I have done some bad things in my time because I'm a human being.

• 46:05Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So when people try and, I guess, put you in a box, like, oh, he's a good guy, or he's this. I'm like, there's no good people, there's no bad people. We're just people and we're capable of great good and great evil. That's it.

• 46:19Steven Bartlett?

  Amen.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:20Steven Bartlett?

  I, I, in my head, when you were saying that and you looked me in the eyes, man, I'm, I've been a demon sometimes.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:24Steven Bartlett?

  I just had this image of.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Well, you're Nigerian, so I really know you.

• 46:27Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, I, but that's, that's the thing. So when I started this podcast, I know it's gonna be on BBC One at nine P M. On this very prestigious show. I was like, by the way, I used to shoplift pizzas to feed myself when I was broke. I did this, I did this, I did this. And you can almost.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Put it out there.

• 46:40Steven Bartlett?

  It's exactly right. And you could almost, in my head, when you said that, I could, I was imagining the press here just packing up their suitcases and fucking off and being like, we got, we can't use him.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Bro, trust me.

• 46:48Steven Bartlett?

  We can't use this guy because he's not tried to, he's not tried to tell us that he's something, he's not built this big hill of moral perfection. So we gotta go find, you know, we gotta go find someone else.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  They can't fuck with me. Cause you know why? If, if, like, there's a reason I've stayed off TMZ. I've never been on TMZ, knock on wood, never will for the wrong reasons. But. I mean, one day, if something happens, I just happen to be on TMZ for the wrong reason, I'd be like, whoopsie. My bad, I made a mistake, but guess what? I never told you I was perfect.

• 47:16Steven Bartlett?

  Exactly.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  I'm normal, I'm a human being. And so I'm just like, that, that, that's my power is being vulnerable with my faults. You know, I'm not gonna say I've done this, I've done that, but I just know I'm not, I'm not perfect. I'm a human being. I make mistakes and it's okay to make mistakes. The difference between me and some people is that I actually learn from my mistakes and I don't make the same mistakes over and over and over again in the public eye, like some people.

• 47:42Steven Bartlett?

  John Jones.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  That's one, that's a classic example, obviously, the same fucking mistake.

• 47:47Steven Bartlett?

  We had a guest come on this podcast in December and um she said that she was making the point about everyone having the same twenty four hours in a day, this was kind of the quote she used. And it became the number one story in this country for three days. It trended number one on Twitter. It was on hundreds of newspaper articles written about it because I think maybe sh- her brand is one that is trying to be a role model. So, so she was a, it was the number one trending topic in our country for three days.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  What was the story?

• 48:15Steven Bartlett?

  That she said everyone has the same twenty four hours in the day.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 48:18Steven Bartlett?

  Right, exactly. So I came out and said, by the way, loads of my guests say that all the time, why are you attacking it? And then my next press event, right, I, I wore a shirt that said twenty four hours on it. Everyone clapped. I didn't get cancelled. And I said, am I cancelled? I wore a shirt and all the paps are there, da, da, da, da. I said twenty, wrote twenty four hours in the shirt. And this is what I'm, this is my, that was my attempt again to say, by the way, I'm not perfect and if you wanna cancel me, please do it now so I can get on with my life.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm still waiting. They've tried, they've tried me. They, they keep trying me. I'm just like, look, it's hard to cancel someone when they actually don't give a fuck.

• 48:53Steven Bartlett?

  And they're being themselves.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I'm like, I fight people for money. That's what I do for a job. I beat people up for a shitload of money. If you really wanna take my political views or my moral views into consideration and say this and that and rah, rah, rah, rah, that's on you. I'm like, this is, I'm not, I never said I'm a saint, I'm not a fucking politician, I don't. Everyone, I don't feel like I have anything to hide. Like I said, I put everything, not everything, but like I put things out there that I probably shouldn't sometimes. But that's my way of being vulnerable to the point where I'm just like, this is me. Take it or leave it. But I feel like me doing that attracts the people who can relate, who can resonate. And I feel like they gravitate towards me.

• 49:35Steven Bartlett?

  You don't talk about your relationships, your romantic relationships.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Never, I keep it away, nah.

• 49:40Steven Bartlett?

  Is it because of protecting the person or?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Look, this world, one thing I've seen is they'll build you up, right? They'll build you up and then tear you down. Like a Free Britney, Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, all these people. I've seen that happen so many times. So, and also this world just takes. They just take, take. When I have kids, you'll never know, the world will never know their face. I'm even contemplating if I still give them my last name because I don't want to put that pressure on them. Because even my, my siblings, sometimes they hate it as well where it's like, you know, oh, this is, um, this is Davis, this is Israel's brother. Oh, this is, um, this is Deborah, this is Israel's sister, or Staubin's sister. And they're like, oh, my name's Deborah, you know?

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Like, I don't want to put that on them. Same thing with my relationships. That's certain things I protect. Because I value them, so I keep them safe. Because the world will just try and take, take, take. And that's one, that's one thing everyone wants to like, know what's he doing, who's he with. Apparently I'm gay as well because of my nails and my pearl necklaces and all that stuff. So I'm just like, ah, let him talk. It's fun.

• 50:46Steven Bartlett?

  But have you found it difficult because of the success and the meteoric rise and the money and the increased attention to, to navigate being good in that department? And also your obsession with becoming the man you are today, which did feel like an obsession when I was reading about your story, sleeping in the gym.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:05Steven Bartlett?

  Like, how does one do that and also balance out having?

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Personal life.

• 51:09Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  That's regular. I'm a, I'm a human being and I have feelings, you know? So I'm an empath as well.

• 51:14Steven Bartlett?

  Are you?

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm born on the cusp. So I'm like, I say, I'm a cancel Leo. I'm hard and soft, like a semi-chub, you know?

• 51:22Steven Bartlett?

  Introvert, extrovert.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. My guy. So a lot of people don't realize that about myself. Like when it's time to like go in my, in my, in my crab hole, I just find my way. I'm like, right, leave me on this. I love my friends because my close friends. I can, we can do this for hours and just yawn and talk shit and make fun of each other and just show each other love. But then we can spend the next three hours just sitting in the same room, being on my phone or watching TV or listen to a podcast and not say a damn word and just enjoy each other's space. I love that. I love that feeling. But um, yeah, I'm a person who feels a lot, so. I like to protect that. I like to keep that really guarded, cause like I said, the world will take that away from you, man.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  And I feel like people ruin things, people, especially like this, this. This is not supposed to happen. The world, I'm being under a microscope and everyone watching what I'm doing. So certain things I just have, I feel like I just have to really protect, cause I don't want the world to take that away from me. Cause they just take, take. My cat died, um, maybe two years ago. The morning she died, right? I was, I think I was filling gas up in the afternoon and some guy came up while I'm filling gas and goes, "Brother, bro, can you talk to my cousin real quick? He's a big fan." I'm just like, "Man, bro, my cat just died this morning, man. I'm not in the mood." And I remember the look on his face, it's like, "Oh, all good, all good, whatever." I was like, "Ah, give me the phone."

• 52:48Speaker 01

  I said, "Hello?" And this is as I'm filling gas actively. And I was like, "What the f-" Hold up. Bro, no phones. Like, what if I spontaneously call, but they don't care. They just wanna have their moment. They wanna take, they wanna take, they wanna take. So that's why if I'm having dinner with my family, if I'm on a date, if I'm in the intimate moment, people start to like, "Bro, I don't wanna be that guy." But I'm like, "But you're being that guy. You're being that guy. You say you don't wanna be that guy, but you're being that guy."

• 53:16Steven Bartlett?

  It's like when people say, "I'm not a racist, I got..."

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah, bro. It's like, "I hate to be that guy, but can I have..." I'm like, "Well, you're being that guy. You hate to be that guy, but you're doing it right now." And it's like, I'll be having lunch with you and within ten minutes, we'll get stopped probably like six times. With you, I'm probably, if we had lunch in London, we'd probably not even have a chance to talk. But they don't care. They just wanna get their picture and put on their fucking social media with fucking twenty followers. Saying, "Oh, Luca, I met your champ, boy." Like, whatever. I'm just like, "No, let me have my moment. I'm, I'm..." And I've learnt this. Okay, my experience with this, and I always bring this up whenever I see him on, on TV or here as raps, most deaf. I see most deaf in common in Auckland Airport.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  And they're having a conversation by the by the back carousel. And I want to fight in Adelaide and I'm coming back home. I have my trophy and I was like, oh, I want to get a picture. And I pull up to him. I'm like, hey, what's up, most deaf, big fan. He's like, hey, brother, just no photos today, man. I was like, yeah, all good. No worries. Easy. And I remember I was a bit sad, but I understood. I understood because they were in the middle of a conversation actively talking. I should have had the etiquette to realize like just, they're talking, leave them alone. Well, this is the thing. No one, I feel like it's learned behavior as well. This is one thing because everyone thinks they're your biggest fan. It's the same rhetoric. I know the lines they're gonna say

• 54:43Speaker 01

  each time, but like it's learned behavior. I don't know. I think it's maybe from TV or Disney or whatever. People feel like when you when you meet someone, you really you're a fan of, you yell at them to let them know how much of a fan you are. And you show them by just shaking and da, da, da, da. I honestly think it's learned behavior because sometimes I'm like, there's no need for all this. I'll be at like a three. I'm chilling at a two or three at a park. And so, no fucking way. Oh, my God. Ah. And I'm just like,

• 55:20Speaker 01

  okay, after the Whitaker fight, the first one, I remember after that whole the fight, after the after party on the way back to the back to New Zealand, I remember at the airport, I put out a story just saying like, look, if you see me at the airport or traveling, just approach me lightly because if you come at me with all this energy, I'll walk away. I put that on my story just because I was like, I'll walk away. Because my capacity to deal with high energy right now was just. How were you feeling? I was just drained. I was drained. So I was just, I just want to go home and chill. So I remember at the airport, I just, I was before at the hotel, I put up, before I went to the airport, I just put that out there on the story just to be like, look,

• 56:01Speaker 01

  don't come at me with all this shit because it's too much for me to deal with right now. So if you come at me just like, hey, what's up, bro? Big fan. Can I take a photo? That's cool. And I remember that fight week, the week before the fight week, I realized I had an epiphany. I realized I don't have to match everyone's energy. Because that was a problem. I used to like, if you're a fan, you meet me now, I feel, eh, even if I met it, like I said, my cat just died. Then I'd have to like raise my level up. Eh, what's up, bro? Eh, do the whole song and dance and all that shit. But I'm like, nah, I don't have to match everyone's energy. Because guess what? Hard pill to swallow. I'm not excited to meet you as much as you are to meet me. It's just a hard pill to swallow and it's just my everyday life. I'm not excited to meet you as you are to meet me.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  And that's okay, because this is my life. This is how I deal with things. So, once I, once I kind of like go over that hump, I was like, oh, I don't have to match everyone's energy. So if someone comes at me at a ten, I don't have to raise my level up. I could, I'm just chilling. I'm listening to a podcast. I can just pause and be like, eh, what's up, man? How you doing? And if they feel like that's a shit interaction, cool, that's their prerogative. I don't care. But if I'm, if you met me last night, like, oh, I remember fucking, I'm in the streets in London last night. I'm showing love to everyone. I'm dancing. I'm talking to people. I'm, I'm Mr., you know, Mr. Area Boy. But that's a time and place. I'm taking pictures and, you know, all that kind of stuff. There's a time and place. If you catch me at the right time and place, fuck it, I'll show you love.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  But I hate when people get entitled and think that you just, I want to take, I want to take. So that's why I keep, yeah.

• 57:32Steven Bartlett?

  And you keep your boys and your, the people you came up with close, right? Tell me about the import, how, how much you realize the importance of that as you've risen to this place, you know, to keep the day ones around you and stuff like that.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you, you'll know this, it's lonely at the top, you know, but it's not if you bring the right people with you. The people that came up with you, the people that, you know, love you for you, you know, the people that know you from before you had money, before you were famous, you know, so. Um, I like to have them around to keep me grounded, to keep me grounded and just make sure I'm, I'm solid. Because they knew me before any of this shit happens and, you know, it's hard because sometimes you, I, I have fallen into the trap of having people who just agree with me. Yes, man, you know, and even my boy Chance, I'm glad like I have him around because sometimes I'm crazy.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  I don't always have the best ideas and I'll have an idea and he'll be like, nah, but okay, cool. I just needed someone to tell me no. But I'll put it out there, boy, if he's like, nah, we're not doing that. I'm like, okay, cool. Cause then it just helps me. But if I had people around me who's like, oh, okay, sure, then eventually it just makes me more powerful and I just start to think like, oh, yeah. You know, I'm the shit. I can say whatever I want. And that's not, that's not healthy, man. I don't think that's healthy for the ego, you know?

• 58:49Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I just like having people like that around me because I feel like, yeah, they keep me grounded and just remind me where I come from. You know, there and there's so many stories, man. Each of my friends in my group chat, I've known each of them over ten years. But well over ten years, man, and we all have stories we can kind of share from back in the day. That just, just remind me where I come from. Yeah.

• 59:13Steven Bartlett?

  And the other thing that happens is when you reach the heights you've reached in your profession is, we talked about it then, you have this other um, this other attention, which is from women that might want you for the wrong reasons.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:25Steven Bartlett?

  My mom always warns me about this.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Have a baby bummy.

• 59:28Steven Bartlett?

  My mom's trying to tell me, like, you know.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  What are you going to settle down? What are you going to find a nice Nigerian girl to settle down?

• 59:35Steven Bartlett?

  She wants me to be with a Nigerian woman. She just doesn't like.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  I don't settle.

• 59:39Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  I don't settle. So for me,

• 59:43Speaker 01

  hmm, that, that's something I guess you just, you just have to take it by case by case basis. Yeah, case by case basis, cause you do find people who just, some people play the long game, put it that way. I've had people play the long game with me even recently. It's just like, yeah, you know, they, there's love, they know that kind of stuff, but they play a long game because they see the value. And it's not just what you, it's just what you bring to the table and they get entitled. You know, and I feel like that's, that's not the way you want to be when you have someone, you know, that's, that you're romantically in love with or involved with is like, you don't want to be competing with them or have them feel entitled to what you have. I'm like, yo, you just got here.

• 1:00:22Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  I've been made it. The fuck are you talking about? What do you bring to the table? I bought the fucking table.

• 1:00:28Steven Bartlett?

  What values are you looking for, do you look for in, in that kind of person?

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Kind. I just like someone who's caring. Who gives a fuck? Who really cares? Like, and who wants nothing from me? That's the thing. It's hard to find with someone who needs nothing. Even for me, I don't even celebrate my birthday and I'm hard to buy gifts for because I'm not really a material. I love material things, obviously, but.

• 1:00:49Steven Bartlett?

  Nice watch.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you. I'm sure, you know.

• 1:00:50Steven Bartlett?

  I agree.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  We work. Yeah. Now, but yeah, like, I'm not a material person, but I do like material things. But it's hard to buy gifts for me because I found this as well with my rich friends when I was coming up. It was hard to buy gifts for them when someone, you're able to buy whatever they want. So, but in that, in that, I just look for someone who's, who's, who's caring, someone who really gives a fuck. That's the main thing. You give a fuck about me. Yeah. And you're gonna have a family one day. Of course. Now, that's my, that's definitely one of my main goals after this. I don't wanna be that dad that's like, you know, I wake up, see my kids for like thirty minutes before I go to work. And then when I finish work, I see them like for hour, hour and a half maybe while I'm tired.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna make sure I'm there from the ages of zero to five or six. I'm gonna be like, what do you wanna do today? Like, literally, what do you wanna, and I feel honestly, fuck school. I don't know why we still even have this whole fucking, this outdated concept of school to just build workers. Cause we know what the fuck school was made for. Why, why are we pretending? We know school was created to create workers. Do you still know, I don't, what the fuck is X? No fucking idea. Bro, I'm still waiting, still. I'm like, when have I in my life as an adult known what the fuck X is? Yeah. No fucking idea. A lot of useless information gonna pass on to me in school. And I sucked at school cause I was shit at memorizing. Same.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  I didn't really learn anything. Dropouts, as we do. Cheers. Drop out, my man. Cause school doesn't teach you much, honestly.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  It teaches you the basics. I understand maths, yes, English, comprehension, all that kinda stuff. But when you come to like social studies and algebra and calculus, I'm like, are you gonna use those in the real world? So, fuck school. My plan is right. When I have kids, I'm gonna have a tutor. That's gonna teach them from the age at home, from the, from the time like say maybe nine AM to midday.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Or one P M and they'll have an hour of homework and the rest of the day we'll just go on adventures doing shit. But then they're gonna do gymnastics compulsory, because I wanna make sure they know their body, the foundation of athleticism, gymnastics. And jujitsu, so that way they're involved with other kids and not socially awkward. You don't wanna raise some fucking bum kids who, you know, don't have any social skills. But, yeah, I wanna make sure that they have those kinda skills by interacting with other kids through gymnastics. Or through jujitsu or other like activities and they'll do that every day or every whatever day of days of the week it is. But school, going there, clocking in, sitting down, watching the teacher write some shit on the board and write, write, write. No one's teaching.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  It just literally, some of these people are just there to catch a paycheck and I've seen it. I was in school, you just see them there, oh, they write the shit on the board, whatever.

• 1:03:42Steven Bartlett?

  Copy this.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  Copy, exactly, copy this. I didn't even know what, because we're doing these, when I was in in high school, N C A credits. And I remember just like towards the end of the year, what's all this credits, credits, credits, not to repeat the whole year. Well, I didn't know what it was, like, credit, what, N C A credits, what's all this credit shit, credit, credit, credit, credit. I did not care. I didn't understand. I just didn't fathom it. But then eventually when I got a grasp of it, I was like, oh, this sucks. It's a shit system.

• 1:04:07Steven Bartlett?

  And then they'll give you the D and then you'll feel like you're a D as a human.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Exactly. One of the worst ones, I remember was in in boarding school in Nigeria. I was I was bottom three in the class and of course they have to announce it, the bottom three, and you have to stand in front of the school.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  These are the bottom three.

• 1:04:30Steven Bartlett?

  With your head down.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Yep, that's us. Yeah, we're the ones. I was the lowest, yes, thank you. Okay, now go and take your seats. Okay, yes, thank you. Oh, the worst, man. And it's just humiliating, but it's like, I don't know if it's meant to motivate you or what, but I didn't do shit. And like I said, a lot of people started like, I see that now, even like, young people decide to tie their self-worth. I have a friend in med school who literally like, when it gets crunch time, they're just like, I need to get these grades, I need to get the grades up. And they just identify themselves, if I don't get this, I'm useless, this is it, I failed. I'm like, you're twenty-three, calm the fuck down. It's not that deep. It is, obviously, it's your career, but I'm like, there's more to life. There's way more to life than this, than than than just this idea of who you think you are.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  Because when I was fucking eighteen, I thought I was gonna be married and have kids at twenty-three. Boy, was I wrong.

• 1:05:21Steven Bartlett?

  Damn.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  I'm like, I don't fuck, who let me buy a house now? I'm like, why? I don't know. Who let me do that? Shouldn't, should never give me these niggas money. First of all.

• 1:05:31Steven Bartlett?

  I don't think they gave it to you.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  I took all that. I'm a banker, but yeah, like. Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking back then. I thought like this, I thought I knew what I wanted. So when I was eighteen, I was like, I'm gonna have kids when I'm twenty-three, twenty-four. Fucking hell.

• 1:05:47Steven Bartlett?

  Jeez.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  And to fiakwa.

• 1:05:50Steven Bartlett?

  What, when you look forward at your, you've, I mean, you've reached the top of your game.

• 1:05:56Steven Bartlett?

  How do you, how do you keep yourself? You know, what is the thing that's driving you now? What is the thing you're aiming for now? What's that North Star that's getting you out of bed?

• 1:06:05Steven Bartlett?

  Is it legacy? People talk about legacy, you know?

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  Legacy, yeah, big thing.

• 1:06:09Steven Bartlett?

  That's what it is.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  It's for me, it's definitely the legacy I wanna live.

• 1:06:13Steven Bartlett?

  Why does that matter?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  I think I wanna be immortal. I don't know if it's my ego or I'm selfish or what it is, but I, I just know. Look, Adesanya, the prefix Adi is royalty where we're from. You know, Adi from the Yoruba, from the Yoruba tribe, you know, that's, that's some royal blood tied to it. Adesanya. But now, worldwide, the name Adesanya is synonymous with greatness. Forever synonymous with greatness. And I'm gonna make sure that is, I'm gonna make sure if you have that name, Adesanya, you're proud to be like, yep. I'm tied to that bloodline. I understand because. I don't know. I don't know what it is. Is it my ego? Why is it that fucking King Tut wanted to be buried in his tomb with all his gold?

• 1:06:55Steven Bartlett?

  Even though he's not gonna be there to?

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Exactly, enjoy it. I don't know. I don't know. But I know when it's all said and done, when I'm dead.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  My name will be remembered in history. What's that Troy line? And that's why no one will remember your name, or whatever it was. But like, I wanna make sure that my name will be remembered and revered throughout history as one of the.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  One of the best in this game, but also just as a person, I just, just, just the G C, just a good cunt. Just a happy dude who was, who was enjoying life and just, I don't know, making shit happen. But it's more about the feeling though. I want people to remember my name and just remember the feeling I gave them. You know what I mean?

• 1:07:32Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Like those who are alive to, or not alive, or around to watch Jordan's um reign in the NBA. I mean, I'm sure when they hear Jordan, they can just, I remember that time I was at that game, or I remember that time I watched that, that game live. And they remember the feeling.

• 1:07:45Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  I want those, like, when they remember my name, to be like, I was there two for three. I remember how I was in the, in the arena when he won. That feeling. I want, I want, people forget what you say or what you do, but they never forget how you make them feel. So it's the feeling I wanna make sure they remember. Yeah.

• 1:08:03Steven Bartlett?

  When people reach the top of their game, they start becoming philanthropists. We see this when people get billions, they think, because they, they can't seem to get the buzz or the feeling anymore from um, from business or successful money or line beginnings of yours. So they start like helping other people, right?

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  I'm getting there.

• 1:08:16Steven Bartlett?

  You're, you're getting to the point where you're starting to feel that the greatest service you can do is like for others. Cause when you're talking about your legacy there, it's actually, sounds like the feeling, that's philanthropy. It's like, I wanna leave this feeling with other people.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:29Steven Bartlett?

  So that they feel, you know, inspired or whatever.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I, I, I'm doing the same thing as well. I'm setting my people up, the people in my circle. I'm not handing anything out to them, but just with opportunities.

• 1:08:38Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  You know, and also experiences. I'm giving them experiences to inspire them. Um, but yeah, there's things that I do behind the scenes that I don't necessarily, I don't know. Like, I'm not one of these guys. I don't do it for the likes. I do it for love.

• 1:08:54Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  And I feel like there's a bar from Jay-Z, the best form of giving is anonymous to anonymous. So there's ways I just, I drop gems, like Shaq, I love the way Shaq does it, but he does it quite over at least, like, you want a bike?

• 1:09:05Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Ask your mom if you can have a bike. You got these shoes? How many you want? You know, like, he does, like, just drop gems everywhere. It makes people happy, because it, it feels good to make people feel good. Even though that is selfish in a sense, because I'm getting, I'm getting something, I'm getting good feels out of it, but still, I'm making someone feel good. I'd rather that, but I'm not doing it to be like,

• 1:09:27Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Hey man, you know, I know you're hungry and I just bought you this meal because I really wanna show love to you, man, you know?

• 1:09:33Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, exactly. And upload it to the gram and then.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Fuck yeah, I don't do that. Like, uh, there's things I've done, even.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Tim will tell you after this. I mean, even for this fight, there was someone that I, I think last year, he went through some stuff that I heard about on, on the media and I was just like, fuck, I went through that shit as well. And then this fight, I brought him out and I showed him a good time. Yeah, he and his mom and I, I, I put them up, got them tickets and just made sure they, um, yeah, they were looked after. I met him backstage and just gave him a few words of encouragement. And I don't need to bring it up.

• 1:10:08Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, it's fine.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  That's some shit, yeah. But Tim will tell you about it.

• 1:10:12Steven Bartlett?

  When you walked in, the song playing, do you remember the song playing?

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Hold up. Oh, Victory Lap. Oh, no, that was on Nipsey.

• 1:10:17Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Um, which one? It was from Victory Lap, though.

• 1:10:19Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Steven Bartlett?

  Double Up.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Double Up, yeah. Ah, every time. That song gets me every time.

• 1:10:25Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  When it gets to the chorus, I'll never be here when you let me. Ah. It gets me, man. Every single time. I don't know why, about, something about that track. It just gets me in my feels. I didn't even think about it and I get goosebumps. Yeah. Double Up's the track, man.

• 1:10:40Steven Bartlett?

  When I saw you, pre-fight, playing that song in that hotel room, crying.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:46Steven Bartlett?

  And then I saw you in the stands another time, crying.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Steven Bartlett?

  I guess that was the evidence that you are a bit of an empath. You do feel.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  I feel. The last one was, that was when I watched my boy Blood Diamond jump on the scale to weigh in. Um, and I get really emotional. Fight week's like my wedding week. I feel. This is why I dread getting married, because I don't, the guest list, I'm just like, I don't even fucking know who I want to like invite, because people are gonna be like, oh, you do invite me to get ready.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  I just, I don't, that's why I don't celebrate my birthday. Because it's like, a few times a year, there's a whole week that everything's about me. So I don't need another special day that it's about me. So that's why I'm also dreading, like I said, my wedding day or my birthday.

• 1:11:28Steven Bartlett?

  Forced fun.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I really don't celebrate my birthday, to be honest. Like, every day's my birthday. I can do whatever fuck I want, you know? I don't even, I don't, I don't buy gifts for people on their birthday. I just buy them, if I see something, I say, oh, I think she'll like that, or I think he'll value that. I'll just buy it, just because I'm like, or give them the experience, just because I feel like they'll value that. But, um.

• 1:11:49Steven Bartlett?

  I know you're not missing Valentine's Day, though.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Oh, nah. Valentine's Day. I have a special traditional Valentine's that I used to do, but I can't, I don't really play around with it anymore. I just used to like just mad memes on my page and just, just, it's funny. It was just the way, the first time I did it was in two thousand and fourteen. Yes, I believe two thousand and fourteen Valentine's Day, I was fighting and throughout the day I was waiting for the fight. I was just bored. It's before stories on Instagram. So I just put up like eighty posts that day, just like, yeah, I know. People got mad at me, people were really entertained, but I didn't care. I was just, I was just in that fight mode. So I was just like. Fuck, put up a post about Valentine's, just memes and just making, just making fun of Valentine's Day, but fuck. Good times, good, good times before I was, I guess, super famous.

• 1:12:36Steven Bartlett?

  One of our guests, you, you, you said you were going up to Manchester on, on the weekend. One of our guests, Patrice Everidge, Manchester United football legend. Do you know the guy?

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  No, I see, I don't, football, the bug didn't catch me.

• 1:12:47Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Didn't catch me as a, sports didn't really catch me as a kid because I was unathletic, funny enough. Yeah, I know. I was never really athletic, Kate. Yeah.

• 1:12:55Steven Bartlett?

  Mad. I mean, Patrice, when Patrice came here, he, he's from, his family are from Africa originally, moved to France, played for the, the French football team. He became this legend, maybe the greatest Manchester United wingback in our history. He wrote a question in the diary. We always get our guests to write questions in the diary.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Yes, I heard about this. This is all I knew about this podcast. I was like, okay, apparently there's a question.

• 1:13:18Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a question at the end, but in fact, I'm going to read you the question that's been left for you by, I don't actually read it until I look at it, but. Patrice asked a question, which I thought was really profound because I remember being asked this question one day and it really puzzled me and it's such a simple question. So I'm going to ask you the question.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:33Steven Bartlett?

  Are you happy?

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Right now, yes. Yes, I'm very happy.

• 1:13:38Steven Bartlett?

  Why'd you say right now?

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Because it's not lasting, it's fleeting. That's one thing I've also learnt as well is. Well, you can't enjoy the sunshine without a little rain and everything is temporary, everything, everything's forever changing. So even right now, I'm happy. I'm enjoying life. I love where I'm at. I love who I'm around. I love who I'm with, you know? I, I know it's not, it's not lasting because guess what? Something's going to happen that's going to shake that up. Because back in the day, whenever this was happening, it must last a few good days. Things is too nice. Where's the thing that's gonna fuck me up? But now, now I'm just like, this is nice and I'll just sit in it and I'll just enjoy it.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  I enjoy the happiness and I enjoy what I'm doing, I enjoy where I'm at. And then when the bad thing comes, I'm like, ah, there it is. It's okay, this is gonna pass as well, this too shall pass. So when I say, yeah, I'm happy, right now, I'm happy, very happy.

• 1:14:38Steven Bartlett?

  Are you good at defending the happiness? Because, because the amount of, you even described it when you came off after your debut. The amount of people that are gonna wanna talk to you and do an interview in Israel, Israel. Are you good at saying?

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  No, better, I'm better at it now. I never used to be, this is what I was talking about, the people pleaser thing back in the day. And this is why this year, one of my things is I don't get fucked up around people I don't like. I don't know, cuz I realize when I get drunk, I'm too nice, I'm a friendly drunk. I'm like a fucking golden retriever when I'm drunk. Or Black Labrador, I'm just like, hey, and not everyone's your friend. Not everyone wants the best for you, but they'll just take advantage and try and like, you know. I just let my boundaries get crossed too many times, you know? And I let people get too close, maybe like too, then the next day, I'm just like, why the fuck did I let that person? You know, ah, fuck, I wish I'd said no to that. You know, then I start to like, they'll eat at me for the next few days.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  So, yeah, um, I, I, I'm getting, I'm, it's practice, it's constantly evolving. But I know how to say no, no, I just say, and I don't have to explain myself. I literally just say no, cuz when you're explaining yourself, you're losing. I learnt that from Chil Sutton, I remember when I used to listen to his podcast. He said something really profound, like when you're explaining yourself, you're losing. So I don't explain myself, I just say no. If that's, like, if someone like, can I get a photo, can I have, I'm like, I'm busy. Oh, please, I'm like, no. Cuz it's like, first of all, you see I'm having, I'm on a date right now and I said no. Or I'm walking with someone right now, having an intimate moment, and you're disturbing my peace. So I say no, and if you try and like, push, push, okay, no. And something, oh, fuck, you know, they'll say something stupid, oh, well, fucking.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Rubble smash you anyway, or whoever your next opponent is. I was like huh, okay. Then I just let them, you know, this is why they take a photo with you, boy. If they, sometimes at a restaurant, like, if I say no to someone, because I'm having lunch, or I'm on a date or whatever, and then they come up to me and say, I'm busy right now, man. If they leave me alone, on my way out, if I see that person, and they were, and they were nice and respectful, I'd be like, yo, you have your phone on you? Then we'll take a photo. Because I'm like, thanks for being respectful. Because sometimes I can understand people's judgment goes out the way when they see a celebrity, apparently. And I felt this way, like I said, you just don't realize your etiquette, and it's just. So when, when that happens, I don't hold it against them. I'm like, it's learned behavior, like I said. So then, I'll,

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  yeah, I'll take my time out of my, out of my day and just say what's up afterwards. But if they like, you know, oh, please, please, I'm like, bro, you're not respecting my boundaries. You didn't respect my no. I need my no to be respected. I said no, why? Because I fucking said so. That's it. I didn't need to explain myself to you. Who the fuck are you? I don't know you from a bar of soap. And again, you're more excited to meet me than I am to meet you.

• 1:17:25Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm. In, in the core of your being, do you realize that you're a star?

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I always knew so. I, I, I knew I wasn't gonna be regular. I, I just knew like, I was gonna be great at something. I didn't know what it was, but I knew I was gonna be great at something. I just knew. Even when I was working my, my last job, I just, I, I, I'm grateful for it because it showed me what I didn't want in life. I just knew, this isn't for me.

• 1:17:50Steven Bartlett?

  And what is that? Is that self-belief that gets you there? Or is that, so is it, is it you believing that you're gonna be great that got you there? Or is it because you were innately destined to be great? I'm trying to figure out if it's something that one.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  What came first, the chicken or the egg?

• 1:18:04Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Hmm. There's levels. There's people like us, where we're crazy in the sense that we believe to be, it's almost delusional sometimes.

• 1:18:12Steven Bartlett?

  Yes.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Like, what's the one, I've heard this quote on the J R E before, it's like greatness and madness and next door neighbors, and they just borrow each other's sugar once in a while. You know what I mean?

• 1:18:23Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  So there's a point, like, I've used the story of me when I drive this beat up Honda, and I'd shift the, the gear stick, and I'd just do this.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  I literally, it was madness. It was me preparing for having a sports car, paddle shifts. So I shifted, you know, three, boom, gear four, boom. And when I dropped down, you know, same thing, just like I was getting ready. I was, I was, this is, I, bro, I can manifest like a motherfucker.

• 1:18:50Steven Bartlett?

  Do you believe in it, in, in the metaphysical like sense?

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, hundred percent. Everything comes from the imagination. Everything comes from, like, before this microphone was a microphone, someone somehow thought about it, you know, how can I speak into something that would amplify my voice and blah, blah, blah, blah? And then this came out of it and it's evolved over the years. Well, everything comes from the imagination. So the power of the mind, people don't understand, we still don't understand. I still don't understand how powerful it is. I'm still learning, but I know one thing is I can make things happen. I can go to levels.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  I just can't tell the world, but like there's levels that like I've manifested things that I'm just like, I still shock myself like, how the fuck did I make that happen? And this is not even to do with fighting, this is to do with my personal life. And I'm like, I made that happen. And this is through this like manifesting, subconsciously as well. Just years of something just manifesting, manifesting and boom, it's right there. I'm just like, shit, I really made that happen. It's scary, man. It's scary for me to even think about.

• 1:19:55Steven Bartlett?

  I reflect on that and almost view it like getting in your car in the morning. When you get in the car in the morning, you set the sat nav, but then you've also got to drive. You've also got to go to training.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:05Steven Bartlett?

  If you just set the sat nav, where are you gonna be?

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  Sitting in the car.

• 1:20:08Steven Bartlett?

  Sitting in the fucking car.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  You can sit there and make all these dreams and manifest, but you have to work.

• 1:20:12Steven Bartlett?

  And what happens if you just drive?

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  If you drive.

• 1:20:15Steven Bartlett?

  And with no sat nav?

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  You don't know where you're going. You're lost. You know what I mean? You have no direction. So for me, I felt like both of them together, when you, when you really, when you have the vision and you're able to manifest, but then you also put the work in. Magic happens, man. Magic. That's where the magic is, but a lot of people never get there, unfortunately. A lot of people are, we're blessed that we can dream. We're blessed that we can dream. That's one thing I've realized, because a lot of people, even from the impoverished parts of London, will be will be lucky to have my old job. You know, from where I'm from, from Nigeria, a lot of people will be blessed to have my old job. And they'll be like, yo, this is, I have a great job. I can send money back home, this and that.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  But, yeah, I just had bigger dreams. I just knew what I wanted. So I feel like I'm spoilt that I can I can dream the way I I do and I can manifest the way I do. So I never take it for granted. And I realize the position that I'm in. I'm privileged. I'm very privileged.

• 1:21:11Steven Bartlett?

  I read a quote about about immigrants specifically from Nigeria, and it said our parents' role was to try and figure out survival. And we're here sat blessed with the task of self-actualization, which is like figuring out meaning.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:22Steven Bartlett?

  And they said, what a beautiful thing that is.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're just trying to survive or find a way, the next way to thrive.

• 1:21:27Steven Bartlett?

  And to educate you.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  See like.

• 1:21:30Steven Bartlett?

  What's meaning and purpose and happiness and.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  That's why I feel like even today, the way the world is like, the problems of that we have, especially with all this divisiveness and whatnot, like you guys are really having your real problems. Like when people in New Zealand start to complain about some stuff, I'm like, you guys are really worried about this. It's like, because there's no real problem. The police aren't trying to kill the people constantly. You know, the government isn't, well, they are fucking the people over, but not the same way as, you know, Nigerians have been fucked with by their government for so long. So it's like, I mean, you're really having your real problems. It's like, they find things to to fight about now. Like now we're arguing about genders.

• 1:22:06Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  You know, this kind of stuff. And it's like, because there's no really, they're looking for problems. They're creating problems. Look, if there was some real shit going on, like there's there was like another war, World War Three, apparently it's coming soon. Stay tuned, stay tuned. Yeah. If that was happening, or aliens invaded.

• 1:22:21Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Do you think anyone will give a fuck about any of that shit?

• 1:22:24Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Fuck no.

• 1:22:25Steven Bartlett?

  No way.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  We're worried about some real shit happening, you know. So, yeah, I feel like people just start to create problems because we don't, we need, we need struggle. We need struggle in our lives. That's the thing.

• 1:22:36Steven Bartlett?

  Mo sat there, he was the head of Google and he changed my life or something, he said about that. He said, um, um, unhappiness is when your expectations of how life is supposed to be going go unmet. So it explains why a billionaire, when his steak comes and it's not perfectly cooked, he will be fucking furious. Because his expectation was here and if it goes unmet, the delta is unhappiness. And if you go to where I was from in Botswana, getting a bowl of rice, expectation is I'm not gonna eat today. Bowl of rice, the delta is happiness. And it's the same thing you're talking about with people, you know, their problems are relative to their expectations of life, right?

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Facts.

• 1:23:09Steven Bartlett?

  The last question, this one was written for you in the diary and by our previous guest. What question do you believe, based on the subject matter of the conversation we've had today, would have been interesting to ask you, that people don't usually ask you?

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  I mean, you touched on a few things I normally don't even talk about, like relationships and kids a little bit. That's stuff that I really hold guarded, but ah, I have some funny ones in my head, but I'm gonna talk about those.

• 1:23:42Steven Bartlett?

  Go for those ones.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Let me see, um, I think diving into my, my personal life a little bit. Anything that has to do with like family, relationships or, you know, like I say, yeah, family that I'm gonna have.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  I'm glad people don't though, cause like I said, I like to just keep those things guarded, but yeah. And I think people kinda get, my love life's not for sale, my family's not for sale. Those kind of things, like I said, I, I won't, I won't sell for the consumption of people to watch. I'm not the Kardashians, you know, I ain't Kanye West, I ain't putting all my business out there. Yeah, so for me, yeah, I keep those things guarded, so I think people kinda respect that, understand that. So they don't push too much, you get like a little bit here every now and then, but not, nothing too much, yeah.

• 1:24:33Steven Bartlett?

  I hear you. Thank you for your time today, it's one of the things.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  Thanks, this was fun.

• 1:24:36Steven Bartlett?

  Tremendous man, like, yeah, you're a killer in so many ways, but I, we didn't even get to talk about the marketing and the branding side of things.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that's levels, there's ways, I mean. I did computer graphic design in in college and I felt like some of the stuffs I learnt there really helped me with my social media when it comes to making my own highlights when I was coming up. You know, posting.

• 1:24:57Steven Bartlett?

  All the anime stuff as well, bro.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  But that's just me being a big kid.

• 1:25:01Steven Bartlett?

  Authentic self as well.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  Exactly, authentic expression of self. If you put it out there, those who appreciate will gravitate. Fuck, I like that. That's a bar. T-shirt. Yeah, that's a bar. Those who appreciate will gravitate. I'm gonna keep.

• 1:25:13Steven Bartlett?

  That's dope.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:15Steven Bartlett?

  Add to your t-shirt collection. Send them out. But listen, thank you so much for your time, for your grace, your humility and your openness as well. It means a lot to me.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Likewise, my man. Honestly, I'm gonna look into you a little bit more.

• 1:25:24Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  This is the thing, whenever I like to meet new people and learn about them. So hearing your story, I'm just like, man, that's still like seven hundred million at twenty seven.

• 1:25:34Steven Bartlett?

  I didn't get all of it, but yeah.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  Respect.

• 1:25:37Steven Bartlett?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  Thank you. Appreciate that.