WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: Entering the Knockouts

Trevor and Joe can't agree on English striker Harry Kane, the GOAT debate, or how the offside rule is ruining football. In this week's World Cup bonus episode, the football frenemies clash over Kane's place among the game's greats, debate whether FIFA favors Ronaldo or Messi, and who truly deserves football's GOAT crown, and unpack the dramatic aftermath of South Africa's elimination. They also dive into the struggles of midfield stars like Vitinha and Pedri before giving us their complete Round of 32 predictions.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Trevor Noah?

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• 0:16Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now with Trevor Noah. Welcome to the World Cup, Joe.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  The business end. Win or go home.

• 0:25Trevor Noah?

  The heartbreak end, that's what you should call it. Although, to be fair, I say this because South Africa just got knocked out. If we're fair, how many nations already home? Because what are we, group stage of 32?

• 0:38Speaker 01

  16 countries are already home.

• 0:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  South Africa is 17th. Because it was 48 countries, we're down to 32.

• 0:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. It, man, it's, there's something about...

• 0:49Trevor Noah?

  Actually, you know, we were talking about this during the game.

• 0:53Trevor Noah?

  Of all the ways to get knocked out,

• 0:56Trevor Noah?

  I don't think this is the worst way South Africa experienced it. But it's, it's one of my least favorites. I hate, I hate losing a game as a sucker punch. And I hate losing a game in the last minutes. But I think it could have been worse if we like got thrashed in a game.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11Trevor Noah?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:11Speaker 01

  It could have been out of the game by the 30th minute.

• 1:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, those are the worst.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  You know, they go 2-0 up and now all of a sudden you've lost. But the thing is, the thing about the World Cup is, or the thing about any knockout competition is there's no right way. There's no good way to be knocked out.

• 1:26Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Knocked out in penalties is very cruel.

• 1:29Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man, it's devastating.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  You're knocked out in penalties is very... The only way, the only good way to leave a knockout game is by progressing. That's the only good way. Anything else is a sickener, is a heartbreaker. But, man, that's the beauty, that's a...

• 1:43Trevor Noah?

  I mean, it's why we love the game.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  We're talking about, we're talking about Barcelona. We've seen Barcelona come from five goals down.

• 1:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  To knock PSG out.

• 1:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  And then we've seen Barcelona lose a three-goal lead against Liverpool. And they didn't sleep that night. It was like, I kept going like, no, it didn't happen, it didn't happen, didn't happen. Corner taken quickly.

• 2:02Trevor Noah?

  That's what I think.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Corner taken quickly.

• 2:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's what, that's what we love about football is, um... Football is the OG toxic relationship, if we think about it. Like if you love football, you're in a toxic relationship. You're in a relationship where the highs are very high and the lows, the lows will crush you.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yes, but the thing is that's, that's a proper analogy. And then it just keeps, you know, when you go like, just, yeah, The Sopranos or Godfather.

• 2:27Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. It always does that because, yeah, you always go hoping this is our time, this is our time.

• 2:36Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Yes, and then the thing is the highs can never be matched. I actually compare it to a reality TV show that's not scripted.

• 2:43Trevor Noah?

  It does have all the same elements.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Same elements, the dramatic highs, the dramatic lows, the tension. It just, the good, the thing that makes it way better than Love Island or Love Island or maybe Real Housewives is it's not scripted.

• 2:57Trevor Noah?

  Hundred percent.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  So you don't know what's going to happen and then that happens.

• 3:00Trevor Noah?

  Although, although, although, although this tournament has a lot of people feeling like it's scripted.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  A lot of Cristiano Ronaldo fans.

• 3:09Trevor Noah?

  I mean, I'm sure, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's not run away from it. Let's, let's, let's, let's deal with the elephant in the room so you and I can continue on our friendship.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 3:18Trevor Noah?

  There are many people who feel like Argentina and Lionel Messi are the darlings of FIFA. And Infantino does everything in his power to make sure that they have both an easy path in the fire, in the, in the tournament and an easy path in games. So let's start with the games argument first, right? People are, people, a lot of people are complaining that Argentina has an easy journey to the final, which shows the bias that FIFA has.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  I disagree, I disagree because Argentina.

• 3:52Trevor Noah?

  You disagree because you love Messi.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  No, no, I disagree because of facts. So Argentina, so when you look at the facts, Argentina actually was supposed to play either Spain or Uruguay. In the next round.

• 4:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  But then Uruguay bottled it and Cape Verde came second.

• 4:07Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, that's true.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Argentina wasn't supposed to play Cape Verde.

• 4:09Trevor Noah?

  That's true.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  So the way FIFA makes these draws is the top teams, the blockbuster box office games should always be in the latter rounds.

• 4:17Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  But then what happens is the big teams, because soccer is not scripted, the big teams normally mess up. So England fails to beat.

• 4:25Trevor Noah?

  Ghana.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Ghana.

• 4:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Spain fails to beat Cape Verde.

• 4:28Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  The Netherlands failed to beat.

• 4:30Trevor Noah?

  Uruguay gets knocked out.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Japan, Uruguay gets knocked out and that's how you mess up. Argentina, on the other hand, they take care of business. They go, so if Argentina had failed to beat Jordan, maybe now they would have ended up on the other side.

• 4:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  So the teams that take care of business always get rewarded with an easier path. So FIFA goes like, we're going to put the big teams on show, because FIFA doesn't, FIFA doesn't want France to meet Argentina in the round of thirty two.

• 4:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  They want France, Argentina in the final. But football is not scripted. One of the two teams messes up, ends up on the other side of the bracket. Now you have one side of the bracket very stacked. Because England didn't do their job, um, Netherlands didn't do their job, Portugal didn't do, Portugal.

• 5:07Trevor Noah?

  Spain didn't do their job.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Spain didn't do their.

• 5:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, that's true.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  If Portugal beats.

• 5:12Trevor Noah?

  Colombia or Congo.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Not even Colombia, Congo.

• 5:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Because Colombia was a bit of a tight game. If they beat Congo, the way they beat Uzbekistan. Now, Portugal is on the easier part of the draw. So that's the way it works. And now, when you talk about Messi, for me.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  I'm going to sound bad saying this, but actually, if anything.

• 5:31Trevor Noah?

  As opposed to how you always sound.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Yes, FIFA favors Ronaldo. It sounds crazy, but FIFA.

• 5:37Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  So let's talk about the red card, right? The red card was contentious, was it, was it not? But coming to the World Cup, there was one player who had a red card. Ronaldo got a red card in one of their last qualifiers.

• 5:48Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, you're right.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  El Boing is an Ireland player.

• 5:50Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, you're right.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  He was supposed to have an automatic three-match ban.

• 5:53Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  But what did FIFA do? What did Infantino do? Infantino went like, we can't miss Ronaldo for the World Cup.

• 5:57Trevor Noah?

  I forgot about that.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  So he gave him one match and then he suspended the other two. That's the first time.

• 6:02Trevor Noah?

  Right, actually, we've never had a suspended sentence in football. That's never happened before. Cristiano Ronaldo is the first recipient.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Of a suspended sentence.

• 6:10Trevor Noah?

  Suspended sentence on a red card.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  The one game he missed against what team? Armenia. And so he came to the, cause FIFA went like, we can't lose Ronaldo for the first.

• 6:17Trevor Noah?

  You're not wrong, actually. Oh, that's a good, that's a good argument.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Imagine if Messi had received that preferential treatment. I'll go back to another, I'll, I'll take you years back, twenty thirteen. The Ballon d'Or, cause sometimes people go like, oh, Messi's favored for the Ballon d'Or. The Ballon d'Or voting was supposed to be closed November fifteenth. Ronaldo scores a hat trick against Sweden November nineteenth. FIFA extends the Ballon d'Or for the first and last time to November twenty ninth. And goes like, you can change your results to reflect recent performances. This, there's, there's been a pattern upon pattern of FIFA favoring Ronaldo, but Ronaldo fans always go like, no, FIFA favors Messi. So for me, Argentina takes care of business. If other teams took care of business, a big team like maybe Portugal or England are supposed to get nine points out of nine.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Spain is supposed to get nine points out of nine.

• 7:06Trevor Noah?

  If we're honest, that's how the tournament is designed.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  That's, yeah, that's how it's designed.

• 7:09Trevor Noah?

  The tournaments are generally designed in such a way that the favorites are supposed to go up against the smaller teams, which benefits smaller teams strangely enough in some ways. You know, it's like a moment to prove yourselves. It's great for box office ratings, et cetera, for you. But the downside is you're facing a bigger team. But when the teams don't perform.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  When Vozina does what Vozina did against Spain.

• 7:29Trevor Noah?

  Man, I can't, can I tell you? Cape Verde has won the World Cup. Because, because let me, let me show you the scenarios here. Cape Verde has won the World Cup. They held Spain to a, a goalless draw, one of the favorites to win the tournament.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  And we thought that was the result. We went like, oh, they're done. They have done their bit. Cape Verde can go home happy. They went like, nope, we're not.

• 7:47Trevor Noah?

  No. They went through in their next game, did the same thing, third game. They have, they have a goal difference of zero going through, which is pretty impressive for World Cup opening rounds. And then, and then, now they're gonna play Argentina in, in the round of thirty two.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Which is a win-win for them.

• 8:02Trevor Noah?

  That's why I'm saying it's a win, because if Argentina beats them, the players and the country walk away going, well.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Heroes welcome.

• 8:08Trevor Noah?

  Only team that could beat us.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  It took Messi.

• 8:11Trevor Noah?

  It took Messi to end our run. You've won. If they miraculously score a goal or two against Argentina.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Did you see, did you see how Jordan celebrated when they scored against Argentina?

• 8:24Trevor Noah?

  It didn't matter that they had lost, they had won. And last but not least, if by all the miracles that exist in the world of football.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  They knock out.

• 8:33Trevor Noah?

  Cape Verde knocks out Argentina.

• 8:37Trevor Noah?

  There is no fathomable emotion that can fully describe.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Describe, yes. What that's more like, yes.

• 8:45Trevor Noah?

  Team and that island and football fans around the world will be experiencing.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  No, but I'll tell you one thing. I think there's one big.

• 8:51Trevor Noah?

  They've won already.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  No, I think there's one bigger winner than Cape Verde.

• 8:54Trevor Noah?

  Who?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  And that's me. Cause I was the only person outside of Cape Verde.

• 8:58Trevor Noah?

  You did say.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  To actually back Cape Verde.

• 9:00Trevor Noah?

  You did say.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  I did say they would make the quarterfinals.

• 9:02Trevor Noah?

  No, you did say.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Now, I didn't know that they would run into Argentina.

• 9:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you did say.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  If they had run.

• 9:06Trevor Noah?

  What was it? What was it about them that you were seeing?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  No, cause I watched them in the Nations Cup. I watched, fun enough, I watched them in the Nations Cup. They are strong, resilient, very well drilled side. Do you know who knocked them out of the Nations Cup? They were killing everyone. Guess who knocked them out? Ronan Williams. He saved three penalties.

• 9:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, saved the penalties.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  He had to save three penalties. And so from then I started following them. They qualified top of their group in Africa. And I went like this team, the way they're organized, the way they are well drilled, the way they work together, they don't have a star player per se. I went like this team is going to go far. And I said Cape Verde, I tip them for the quarterfinals. Now, I didn't know that they would run into, unfortunately, Lionel Messi. And it would be a mad man to bet against Lionel Messi. But for me, Cape Verde makes it, I'm happy.

• 9:49Trevor Noah?

  You know, when you say you'd be a mad man, I mean like, you're Messi, man. I'm sure you've seen, there's a huge beef on the internet right now between Messi fans and Ronaldo fans.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  There's always been a, yeah.

• 9:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but this right now is like, this is fever pitch.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  This is a blood feud.

• 10:01Trevor Noah?

  This is a fever pitch.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  You know, when you talk about those mafia style.

• 10:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, this is full on fever pitch. You know what I'm saying? If you, if you look at the, the argument, the argument is basically from Ronaldo fans.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:11Trevor Noah?

  Say Portugal doesn't play for him.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:13Trevor Noah?

  They don't support him.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:14Trevor Noah?

  They argue that Messi gets favorable calls.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:16Trevor Noah?

  They argue that Argentina is a dirtier team. The Messi fans argue that Ronaldo doesn't show up when it counts.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:23Trevor Noah?

  He doesn't perform, he can't.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  He hasn't earned the right.

• 10:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, he can't carry his team. And he hasn't earned the right to be in the same conversation as Messi.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:29Trevor Noah?

  Now, if you're a neutral like myself, I'm neither Messi nor Ronaldo fan.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 10:34Trevor Noah?

  I love them both as players.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:36Trevor Noah?

  I've loved them both my entire life watching football.

• 10:40Trevor Noah?

  But when I watch it, there's one, one part where the argument tips in my opinion towards the Messi fans.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:45Trevor Noah?

  Messi fans or Ronaldo fans will say, why is it then when Messi scores goals against Jordan and these other teams? People say, oh, you see Messi handling business.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Mm.

• 10:55Trevor Noah?

  But when Ronaldo scores against Uzbekistan, they say Ronaldo stat padding.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  Mm.

• 11:00Trevor Noah?

  I agree with that, except for one, one part. And it's the fact that.

• 11:06Trevor Noah?

  Ronaldo doesn't do it consistently. You know what I mean?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 11:10Trevor Noah?

  Ronaldo doesn't score, like, score in a game where the score's one-one.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 11:14Trevor Noah?

  Where it's two-two, where it's, you know what I mean? It's like, he doesn't, he just doesn't do it. Messi's doing it to come off the bench, score a free kick. Yes, against a terrible goalie, in my opinion.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Terrible, terrible, terrible.

• 11:25Trevor Noah?

  But, man, he still does it. He punishes the people where it counts. For me, Ronaldo should have got a hat-trick against Uzbekistan. Does that make sense?

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Not only that, yesterday, he had two free kicks, and I think you saw what happened.

• 11:35Trevor Noah?

  Oh, my goodness, those were terrible.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  They were horrible, they were horrible.

• 11:38Trevor Noah?

  I almost wonder if Messi came off the bench just because he wanted to show Ronaldo how to kick a free kick.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Okay, why?

• 11:44Trevor Noah?

  Because Ronaldo, because Messi wasn't supposed to play that game.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  No, he wasn't, and for me, that's the most frustrating thing about being a Messi fan. Messi doesn't care about personal stats, he doesn't care about individual records.

• 11:55Trevor Noah?

  You think that's true?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Really doesn't.

• 11:56Trevor Noah?

  How, why, what do you base that on?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, so I've watched Messi give away penalties when he's on a hat-trick. I've watched Messi score two goals and just start giving assists. Messi does that so often, we call him Brisman. Every Messi fan calls him Brisman.

• 12:10Trevor Noah?

  Brisman?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Brisman, he's not interested in hat-tricks.

• 12:12Trevor Noah?

  Huh.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  He just scores, it's like a well-known nickname. And the thing is, so yesterday, if Ronaldo, this time Ronaldo played ninety minutes.

• 12:19Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Because Ronaldo is obsessed with the one thousand goal, he wants to score a thousand goals.

• 12:23Trevor Noah?

  How many does he have right now?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  He has like nine hundred fifty, nine hundred sixty, so he's forty goals away. Messi, yesterday, against Jordan, the weakest team in the group, if he wanted to start bad, or if he cared about extending.

• 12:35Trevor Noah?

  Okay, he would have played the game from the beginning.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  He should have played the whole game, he didn't, he wasn't interested, Messi doesn't care. So now, I'll say this, first of all, Ronaldo fans, viewer, viewer discretion, please, warning, just look away, look away now.

• 12:48Trevor Noah?

  Censor of Ronaldo fans, look away.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  It's going to be brutal, it's going to be brutal because I'm going to, what do the kids say? I'm going to brutally mug your fake guts with stats and truth in New York. So here's what happens, I think, personally, Ronaldo fans are Ronaldo fans.

• 13:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  They are not football fans. Messi fans are football fans first.

• 13:09Trevor Noah?

  Wait, Ronaldo fans?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Are Ronaldo fans first.

• 13:12Trevor Noah?

  First?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  And football fans second.

• 13:14Trevor Noah?

  Second, Messi fans are football fans first and Messi fans second.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  And I'll explain why. So, when Ronaldo scored against Uzbekistan, what did I say? I said, this is the worst result that could have happened to Portugal, you said it as well.

• 13:26Trevor Noah?

  Can I just say, can I just say, by the way, anyone who has watched this podcast, listened to this podcast, watched clips of it? I don't know about you, my mentions were a mess.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  I'm not on social media, so.

• 13:38Trevor Noah?

  People were like.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  I can just say anything and run away.

• 13:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, people were like, oh, you idiot, you don't know anything, Ronaldo's gonna show you Ronaldo. And I was like, no, you don't hear what I'm saying. I'm saying Ronaldo is gonna hurt Portugal.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 13:51Trevor Noah?

  Because he cannot keep up with the game anymore.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  But that's for me.

• 13:55Trevor Noah?

  Not because he's not a good player.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  That's a bit farther down the road.

• 13:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  The reason I said it was the worst result, and I didn't, I didn't get a chance to explain. It's because Ronaldo came into the game against Uzbekistan, having not scored in ten consecutive games in major finals. That's the World Cup and the Euros. He had gone ten consecutive games without scoring. So when he scores the two goals against Uzbekistan.

• 14:18Trevor Noah?

  Messi is on seven right now.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, Messi scores in every major final. So when Ronaldo scores the two goals, now you can't drop him anymore. Cause these fans will go like, but he has silenced his critics. Ronaldo yells into the camera. I'm back, I'm back. But he was never present. And the reason I say that is because.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Every world, every, every major final Ronaldo's played, he has played six World Cup finals, he has played six European championships.

• 14:46Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Ronaldo scored zero goals in the knockout rounds in the World Cup. I have as many goals in the knockout rounds of a World Cup as Ronaldo. Despite the fact that Ronaldo's played six more World Cups.

• 14:59Trevor Noah?

  Oh man, what a controversial state with Joe.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  In the Euros, Ronaldo's played six Euros. He has scored three knockout goals. That's a reason Ronaldo's played twenty five World Cup matches. Do you know how many matches he has gone scorers? Eighteen. This is supposed to be.

• 15:16Trevor Noah?

  I mean, but then if we're looking at those numbers, that means that Ronaldo's actually overperforming in this World Cup.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  He has, he has, he has, cause Ronaldo's.

• 15:23Trevor Noah?

  Average is like one point something then.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  One point three.

• 15:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  The two goals against, against Uzbekistan, he's already overperformed.

• 15:28Trevor Noah?

  So he's getting better as a player.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  No, so he has, so he has reached the peak. He can't score anymore. And remember, as I'm saying, he has never scored a knockout goal in the World Cup.

• 15:36Trevor Noah?

  That's funny.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  We are now in the knockout rounds. Is he going to start scoring now? No. So then Ronaldo fans will say, but Joe. Another thing I said that seemed. was I said Ronaldo, Portugal should have moved on from Ronaldo in twenty sixteen. And they called me a madman. Why? Because they said, oh, but he helped, he scored. Okay, so two things. They said, one, but he helped them win the Nations League. No one cares about the Nations League.

• 15:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  He's a glorified friend, no one cares. Then some people will say, oh, but he helped them win the Euros. I'll say, no, he didn't. Edéa.

• 16:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Won the Euros.

• 16:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  By scoring a goal, Ronaldo was limping helplessly on the sideline when he scored again. Ronaldo was off, off the pitch for sixty five minutes.

• 16:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Then some people say, oh, no, but Ronaldo carried Portugal to the final. And I'll say, no, he didn't. He scored in two games. In that Euros, Griezmann scored double the number of goals Ronaldo scored in that particular championship.

• 16:27Trevor Noah?

  I'm, I'm, I'll give it to you. No, no, remember, I'm, I'm, I'm impartial here. I'll give it to you.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  I'll give you this.

• 16:32Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no. Before you, before you go too far.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Before you interrupt, because people will think I'm crazy. I'll give you this. The reason I say Portugal should have moved on from Ronaldo. I mean, from building the team around him is because ever since twenty sixteen, he's never scored a knockout goal in any major final. One, two, Ronaldo has had two notable performances for me for Portugal. And I watch every Portugal game. The first one was against Sweden when he scored a hat trick.

• 16:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  To lead Portugal into the twenty fourteen World Cup. But remember, why did he need to score a hat trick? Because Portugal had gone through the playoffs. They had to sneak through the back door of the playoffs. They were in a group with Hungary and I think Slovenia and still come to that group.

• 17:09Trevor Noah?

  As I said, I've given it to you, Joe.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  The only other hat trick he scored.

• 17:11Trevor Noah?

  Joe.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Listen, the only other hat trick he scored.

• 17:13Trevor Noah?

  You know, you're, you're fighting against nobody right now, Joe.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  No, no, no, but I, I know, because I want to spare it, because Ronaldo fans will go like, you're crazy. So.

• 17:19Trevor Noah?

  So you're trying to drop the stats, but now, Joe, Ronaldo fans don't care about the stats.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  They don't care.

• 17:23Trevor Noah?

  And in fact.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  They literally don't care, yes.

• 17:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I would, I would argue that most people who are a fan of, of a, of a player don't care about the stats. What they care about is how the player makes them feel and the stats that matter to them.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Yes. If he, if he shows up in big games, Ronaldo would feel his fans, would make his fans feel a lot better. But for me, as we Messi fans normally say. Ronaldo belongs not in the god debate, but on a milk carton, missing, because he's always missing.

• 17:44Trevor Noah?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Every major tournament is always missing.

• 17:47Trevor Noah?

  I see you. Let me, let me, let me deflate your balloon a little bit. You know who does show up?

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:51Trevor Noah?

  A man by the name of Harry Kane. That's who does show up, Joe.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Yes, he has.

• 17:55Trevor Noah?

  Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Joe, you've, you've said your piece. You've said your piece. You've said your piece. You can relax into that chair. You can enjoy yourself.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Defend this ridiculous choice.

• 18:04Trevor Noah?

  Joe, we we had a conversation.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:06Trevor Noah?

  When we recorded the first episode of this podcast. And we talked about strikers and who the best strikers in the world are. And I said Harry Kane and you said no, and I asked you to name a striker better than him.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Right now.

• 18:17Trevor Noah?

  And you and you froze.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yes, the right now.

• 18:19Trevor Noah?

  You couldn't answer.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:20Trevor Noah?

  Right now was the key thing. In the game against Panama, England, we'll talk about their performance second.

• 18:30Trevor Noah?

  Weren't doing so well.

• 18:33Trevor Noah?

  Two players stood out, Jude Bellingham.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:36Trevor Noah?

  And my man Harry Kane.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:39Trevor Noah?

  Are you willing to concede? As as I did, I led by example, I've I've conceded to you on the Argentina easy part.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  It's very easy to concede when Messi's on the other side of the debate, but okay.

• 18:51Trevor Noah?

  Are you willing, are you willing, or or how close are you to conceding that Harry Kane gets the job done?

• 18:57Speaker 01

  I'll say this, Harry Kane, good striker, he has scored two.

• 19:00Trevor Noah?

  This man.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  No, he scored. Listen, I like looking at the players where.

• 19:03Trevor Noah?

  Oh my goodness, the man's is good.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Do they show up in big moments?

• 19:07Trevor Noah?

  This guy's good.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Hurricane has scored two knockout goals in the World Cup.

• 19:10Trevor Noah?

  Joe, wait, wait, wait, Joe, Joe, Joe, okay, let's do this, let's do this.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  One of them.

• 19:13Trevor Noah?

  Here's what I don't like about this, here's what I don't like about this, I think your analysis of the game hinges on a very particular element of the game that that can swing depending on how a match is played. So I'll give you an example, let's look at case in point, matches this week, right? Look at the France game where Dembele gets a hat trick.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:31Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  It's a it's a group game, it doesn't count in.

• 19:34Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, but wait, but wait, people can say, um, Mbappe didn't show up that game. I argue because Mbappe was double teamed that whole game, because Mbappe was being fouled, because Mbappe was being challenged the way he was. Mbappe had less chance of getting a clear opportunity on goal. And because of that, Dembele was able to put away three and kudos to him because they were not easy goals and they were not easy finishes. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying sometimes a player's sacrifice is such that they're gonna have to give up their goal so that the team can win. And that's what I judge you by as a striker, like Luis Suarez was one of the best at taking players away from the game and letting his team score goals. You get what I'm saying? Um, your Barcelona boys used to do it all the time as well, so you know that I'm not crazy as saying this. David Villa.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:18Trevor Noah?

  Sergio Aguero at Manchester City. You name it.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Robert Lewandowski, yes.

• 20:22Trevor Noah?

  Robert Lewandowski, you show me a great striker, I'll show you a player who knows that their gravity on the pitch is as powerful as their impact. And so sometimes their power move in the game is going to be to move the centre backs out of position. So that a wing back can slice in or so that an attacking midfielder like a number 10 or somebody can can can overlap, right? Harry Kane for me, the reason I say this is because Harry Kane is the do everything player when it needs to be done.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:49Trevor Noah?

  Right? In games where it's scruffy, he can get it done. In games where you're coasting, he can get it done. In games where someone needs to come back all the way to the midfield or beyond and get the ball, play it forward, Harry Kane can get it done.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  He's.

• 21:03Trevor Noah?

  And and you can put it on feet, you can put it on his head, you can make it like this Panama game, let's be honest. It was an ugly game.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  It was a tough game, yes.

• 21:11Trevor Noah?

  And it wasn't just tough, it was ugly.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Ugly, yes.

• 21:13Trevor Noah?

  Like Colombia, Portugal wasn't an ugly game, but it was tough. You know, Colombia, in my opinion, should have got the win.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:19Trevor Noah?

  You know, but if we look at the England game itself, I think Harry Kane and Jude, by the way. Jude, who half of the English press was slating before the tournament. Has now stepped up in more than one game, in my opinion, to show that like he is that guy. In the England team especially, Jude Bellingham.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  He'll pop up with goals, yes.

• 21:37Trevor Noah?

  You know why?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  He scored too far.

• 21:38Trevor Noah?

  You know why? And maybe this will get us into another conversation. Jude Bellingham is not afraid to progress the play. He's not afraid to take a man on, he's not afraid to dribble a person, he's not afraid and I.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Problem is, problem is he lacks the tools to do it.

• 21:51Trevor Noah?

  He like, look, wait, wait, wait, wait, he lacks the finesse of like, he doesn't have the most deft touch. But man, the boy makes up for it with his decision making.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  With his lungs, like in English, uh, he's a passion merchant, I think, and he's a lungs merchant. I'll say this.

• 22:06Trevor Noah?

  Did you say he's a lungs?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, lungs merchant.

• 22:08Trevor Noah?

  And passion merchant?

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Yes. That kind of thing.

• 22:10Trevor Noah?

  And you say it like a bad thing.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  It's a bad thing. Okay, so I'll say this, I'll say this.

• 22:14Trevor Noah?

  Did he use his, wait, wait, did he, did he use his lungs to cross the ball or did he use his passion to cross the ball?

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Let me, let me, let me.

• 22:21Trevor Noah?

  Ah.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  No, no, I want to answer, no, I want, I want to answer.

• 22:22Trevor Noah?

  It's amazing how when you are

• 22:24Speaker 01

  I want to answer your question, no.

• 22:25Trevor Noah?

  Joe should make the most outlandish statements.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  I want to answer, I want to answer.

• 22:27Trevor Noah?

  No, my friend, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, no, answer my question. When Jude Bellingham gets that ball and crosses it to Harry Kane, did he cross it using his lungs or using his passion?

• 22:37Speaker 01

  He used his lungs to get there.

• 22:38Trevor Noah?

  He used, which foot did he use to cross that ball?

• 22:41Speaker 01

  What I'm saying is if you're

• 22:42Trevor Noah?

  Which foot did he use to cross that ball?

• 22:44Speaker 01

  If you're Jude Bellingham, you shouldn't struggle.

• 22:46Trevor Noah?

  I wish I was Jude Bellingham.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  You should struggle to create chances against Panama, you shouldn't. If you're a great player.

• 22:51Trevor Noah?

  Panama's playing five at the back.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter.

• 22:52Trevor Noah?

  No, Joe.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Messi, Messi.

• 22:54Trevor Noah?

  Oh, here we go again.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Pedri, Vitinha, these are players who want more stuff.

• 22:57Trevor Noah?

  Oh, you want to bring that up?

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:58Trevor Noah?

  Okay, actually, this is a perfect time. Let's talk about your boys Pedri and Vitinha. Wait, let me ask you a few questions.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, but let me first, I want first, no, no, Trevor, I want first answer your question about

• 23:06Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  I want first, first answer.

• 23:08Trevor Noah?

  I see you dodging.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Let me answer your question about Kane.

• 23:10Trevor Noah?

  I see you dodging.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Kane first, let me answer your question about

• 23:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, now we're going to Kane because we brought up Pedri and Vitinha.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  No, no, no, then we'll go to Pedri and Vitinha.

• 23:14Trevor Noah?

  I see what you're doing.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  He's, you asked me about Kane.

• 23:15Trevor Noah?

  I see what you're doing.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  You asked me about Kane. So for me, Kane.

• 23:17Trevor Noah?

  You're taking the ball and passing it back to your goalkeeper right now, Joe.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Kane has the same problem, Kane has the same problem as Ronaldo. And I'll, I'll tell you why. When you've, when you've scored two goals in the knockout rounds, Trevor, a good player, a great player is only, is only, is only determined by how they stand up when the pressure is on, when the lights are brightest. I consider, I consider.

• 23:40Trevor Noah?

  The pressure was on with Panama.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  No, no, it wasn't. That's not the knockout rounds, that's the group stages.

• 23:43Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, Joe, Joe, Joe, the pressure was on.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  They are already qualified regardless.

• 23:46Trevor Noah?

  Joe, Joe, the pressure was on. Yes, but winning the group was important.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Trevor, I'm saying knockout rounds.

• 23:51Trevor Noah?

  Did Ronaldo win the group?

• 23:52Speaker 01

  No, he didn't.

• 23:53Trevor Noah?

  So, oh, wait, wait, let's, let's play this game. Did Ronaldo win his group?

• 23:55Speaker 01

  No, he didn't.

• 23:56Trevor Noah?

  Did Uruguay win their group?

• 23:57Speaker 01

  No, they didn't.

• 23:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, so

• 23:58Speaker 01

  So, I'm saying, I'm saying.

• 23:59Trevor Noah?

  There are players where, no, so there are players and teams who didn't show up.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:03Trevor Noah?

  Because winning the group is pressure, Joe, don't say it's not pressure.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Winning the group is useless if you don't show up in the knockout rounds.

• 24:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but we haven't got to the knockout rounds yet.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  But now we are.

• 24:10Trevor Noah?

  You can't judge a man by a round he didn't get to.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm saying in the past and even now, I'm looking at their past performance, so look. For me, the way I consider Harry Kane and Ronaldo, I think of them as the Harden, James Harden, or Russell Westbrook of international football. They'll put up big numbers in the regular season, when the playoffs come, they disappear.

• 24:28Trevor Noah?

  You know what you are, Joe?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  They disappear.

• 24:29Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you what you are?

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:30Trevor Noah?

  You are a hate merchant.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 24:31Trevor Noah?

  That's what you are.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Trevor, they are good players.

• 24:33Trevor Noah?

  No, no, I don't think you heard me.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Russell Westbrook and James Harden.

• 24:35Trevor Noah?

  You are a merchant of hating.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Listen, Russell Westbrook and James Harden.

• 24:38Trevor Noah?

  You are a merchant.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Are future Hall of Famers, and they, they are future Hall of Famers.

• 24:41Trevor Noah?

  You are a merchant.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  But you can never put them in the same conversation.

• 24:44Trevor Noah?

  Of hating.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  As Michael Jordan or LeBron James.

• 24:46Trevor Noah?

  Fine, I'm gonna issue you a challenge.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:48Trevor Noah?

  You're not allowed to say the words Messi.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:50Trevor Noah?

  You're not allowed to say the words Harry Kane.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Ah, no, we can't have the conversation.

• 24:52Trevor Noah?

  Ah, you see?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:53Trevor Noah?

  I'm taking all your merchants here.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Okay, let's talk about Declan Rice.

• 24:57Trevor Noah?

  That's all you are. Let's have a conversation.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:00Trevor Noah?

  About Vitinha.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:02Trevor Noah?

  What's going on with Vitinha?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Vitinha.

• 25:03Trevor Noah?

  Wait, wait, wait, I'm gonna break down why we're talking about this. Vitinha has been considered one of the best midfielders in the game of football over the past few years. Playing for PSG, the man has won multiple Champions League, he's won multiple La Ligas, he's been viewed as one of the most potent and dynamic players controlling a midfield, right? Coming into the World Cup, I would argue that Portugal has been called one of the favourites primarily because Vitinha is running the midfield, Bruno Fernandes is in front of him. People have said, this midfield can shut everything down.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Best midfield, yes.

• 25:30Trevor Noah?

  They can create anything, good luck to any team that faces them. And yet, and yet, in the games where we've watched Portugal play, it looks like Vitinha, and this is not like me guessing, if you look at his passing map, most of his passes are lateral passes from side to side, short passes that aren't really creative, they don't move the game, very few incisive passes, very few chances created.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:00Trevor Noah?

  Very few opportunities, very few.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Yes, and what's the difference?

• 26:03Trevor Noah?

  And so my question to you is, okay, now remember my challenge, I'm actually gonna add one thing. You cannot say Ronaldo, you cannot say Messi, and you cannot say Harry Kane, wait.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  You're asking me to diagonalize the problem without actually measuring the problem.

• 26:16Trevor Noah?

  Wait, Joe.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  So when you have a striker who is static, when you have a striker who is not mobile, however progressive a passer you are, there's no one to play the ball into. You need someone to play the ball into, however progressive you are.

• 26:27Trevor Noah?

  Pedro Neto's there?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Pedro Neto is not in the, so that's why it's sideways, because it's going to the wing. But it's not the same. At PSG, he's playing the ball into Kvaraskeria, he's playing the ball.

• 26:38Trevor Noah?

  Who's on the left, who's on the right sometimes?

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Yes, but who's making runs inside. He's playing the ball into Dembele though. Dembele is very mobile. Now, when you consider, look, I'm a huge fan of Messi, yes.

• 26:51Trevor Noah?

  You're not allowed to say Messi, bro. Remember what we just said.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  I'm a huge fan of the God. But I'll tell you one thing. I'll play, Trevor, you've, Trevor, you've seen us play on Tuesday. One of my arguments every time I'm playing on Tuesday is where are the runners? I'm a midfielder, I'm a very progressive passer of the ball, I hate passing the ball back. But if there's no one running, I have to pass the ball back, I have to pass the ball sideways so that I don't concede possession. Because if you're a midfielder, if you concede possession, then the counter is on.

• 27:16Trevor Noah?

  Okay, let's now, let's go to another player who you love and then let's figure out what's happening with Pedri.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Pedri has had a bit of a tough walk up, partly because he has had to switch between two positions. So he started as a more advanced pivot, and then they took Fabian Ruiz out. Then they played him, and he played very well in the second game, remember, they played so well against Saudi Arabia. But that's because Dani Olmo, Dani Olmo, yes. That's because Dani Olmo was in the hole. Yes. Yes, but I'm explaining why. Because Dani.

• 27:44Trevor Noah?

  Man, Mike Tyson did really well in that fight at the kindergarten. He was really, really good.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  But I'll tell you why. So they struggled. So he struggled in the next game because they played Mikel Merino. Mikel Merino can't play with him in the same way that Olmo plays with him.

• 27:56Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but Joe, this is my problem though. This is what I'm trying to say. How great are these players? And I'm not saying they're not, because again, I love Vitinha, I love Pedri. I love the way they play, but the question many people are asking is, are we over inflating the greatness of players around the world because of the teams they're surrounded by, right? So we can bring other players into this conversation. Antoine Semenyo, he's not showing himself as the Bournemouth guy or the Man City guy. You watch most of the game and Semenyo's making random runs, he doesn't seem to like keep the ball at his feet, he doesn't seem to, you know what I mean? There's multiple players where, even Valverde at Uruguay, and again, some people say it's the coach, some, but I'm saying, is that not the true measure of a great player?

• 28:38Trevor Noah?

  Is the fact that they can perform in spite of the national team that is around them, right?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  I totally agree with you, because I feel like you're coming around, around, fun enough, to my argument, which is. The players, so a player like, you're saying the measure of greatness. So I'm saying Harry Kane, Cristiano Ronaldo, they have been doing it for their club. Then they come to their national team.

• 29:03Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:04Trevor Noah?

  No, no, let's not bring them in. No, Joe. What you're doing here is slick. Let's talk about the players we're talking about.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:09Trevor Noah?

  Vitinha, Pedri.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:11Trevor Noah?

  Let's just talk about them.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll say this, I'll say this, and you can quote me on this going forward. Pedri is going to come good, because Pedri always comes good. He's going to come good in the tournament.

• 29:20Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Vitinha is not going to, because he has a problem that can't be solved.

• 29:24Trevor Noah?

  Oh, interesting. So you think Pedri, Pedri's having a moment?

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:27Trevor Noah?

  Vitinha, it's systematic.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  It's a problem.

• 29:30Trevor Noah?

  Systemic, rather, sorry.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a problem. If he had Gonzalo Ramos in front of him. And I know Gonzalo is not like the best striker, but Gonzalo Ramos has legs, try to be mobile. There's a reason why.

• 29:40Trevor Noah?

  Okay, can I disagree with you? Wait, let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. I actually think this is what the issue is. And maybe it actually leans, this is where our Venn diagrams might, might actually overlap.

• 29:51Trevor Noah?

  I think when I watch Argentina play with Messi.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. A player who steps up both for club and country, which is why he's the GOAT.

• 29:58Trevor Noah?

  One of the things I think people miss is this. Messi has an advantage in his position in the team. Because he is neither the furthest forward player, nor is he the last man of defence. The reason I say this is, if you are a player who's at the back, and you do not perform one hundred percent, your team is going to concede a goal.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:17Trevor Noah?

  If you're a player who's at the front and you don't perform, your team is gonna, is not gonna score goals, right? Everyone goes where the goal is gonna come from. I argue that Messi, and I do think this was wise of him and the teams he's played for, by moving into the position he's moved into, he's now made it that the game is less about his legs, and more about his vision, his touch, and his talents. He's adapted. And that's part of what being a GOAT is, in my opinion, is knowing how to adapt to, knowing how to adapt your body to the game.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  The role of the GJ, yes.

• 30:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, completely, completely. I think when I watch the Portugal team, one of the biggest issues they face is. Let's think of all the great 4-3-3 teams and their formations, whether it's Barcelona, whether it's PSG, whoever it may be, even Liverpool in its heyday, Mo Salah, Firmino, Mane, etc. One of the most crucial things you want to do is make sure that your wingers have the permission to cut in ferociously. And what often happens is you'll find a switch of play. So if your midfield has the ball, let's say they have it on the right. You find the most dangerous incisive pass is the pass that's actually going to favor, like that Mbappe run that he loves doing.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Okay, yes, yes.

• 31:26Trevor Noah?

  It's a diagonal run that cuts across players. And the reason I always think that's so hard to defend against is because you don't know whose man it is.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 31:33Trevor Noah?

  Is it the man who was with him when he started the run?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yes, or the man whose zone is running into.

• 31:36Trevor Noah?

  Or does it switch over to the next man? In many ways, it's like a basketball pick.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yes, pick and roll.

• 31:41Trevor Noah?

  But it's a much faster version of a pick and roll because you don't stand still. But who's supposed to defend it? Do you mark with the man? Do you mark with... And those things are so dangerous. Like when Mo Salah would do that, Bobby Firmino would move to one side, Mane or Salah would do it. You see it at PSG as well. You see it at Bayern Munich as well. Once a player pulls and the wingers can cut in, all sorts of chaos breaks out. But my issue... No, this is where I say we might be overlapping. I don't see Ronaldo pulling people enough.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 32:12Trevor Noah?

  And then I don't see the Portugal wingers cutting in. The moments where I have seen it is Rafa Leao. Rafa Leao, but only because of his pace, has been making that for himself. Gets the ball on the wing, flies past a defender, cuts back down into the box. But I argue he should be meeting the ball there as opposed to having to run all the way there with it.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the thing is, where I disagree with you, and I see the convergence you're talking about, where I disagree with you is you're making it seem like this is a recent problem. For me, when it comes to Ronaldo.

• 32:40Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no. Let's not talk about that. No, let's not talk about that. I'm only... No, no, no, listen, I don't want to go back to that.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no.

• 32:46Trevor Noah?

  No, no, listen, I don't want to go back to that. The reason I'm saying it is, I'm just saying for Vitinha specifically, and even, I'm saying for Vitinha, I think...

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Pedro Neto.

• 32:53Trevor Noah?

  So I'm saying Pedro Neto and those guys. I don't know if this is a coach saying, "Don't go into Ronaldo's zone," or if it's Ronaldo saying, "Don't go into Ronaldo's zone." But my issue is that the game seems like it has a predictable shape.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:05Trevor Noah?

  And there's not enough throwing defenders off of their positions and dragging people out of positions, in my opinion. But I don't want to get stuck on this forever.

• 33:18Trevor Noah?

  Well, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor Mazda for today's episode. Safety has a new leader. You know what I've realized? Most people don't actually think about safety when everything's going right. Yeah, you only notice it afterwards at the end of a long drive when you still feel relaxed. When traffic gets chaotic, but you never feel overwhelmed. When something unexpected happens and the car just feels composed. And I think that's what's interesting about Mazda's approach. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. It starts with their approach.

• 33:59Trevor Noah?

  Mazda believes real safety begins with helping to protect you before problems even start. So you can feel more confident on every single drive. And I like that philosophy because good design shouldn't interrupt the experience. It should support it quietly. Mazda has more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus Awards than any other brand as of April 2026. You don't believe me? Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. Well, do it and do it now.

• 34:40Trevor Noah?

  I do want to talk about some of the some of the big news that's getting everyone. Number one, yo, one of the saddest stories from the World Cup is what happened to South Korea's coach.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you had to see it.

• 34:50Trevor Noah?

  The team got knocked out of the competition, really put in subpar performances. And the Korean coach,

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Hyung Min Bo,

• 34:59Trevor Noah?

  was, I mean, a hero coming into this tournament, a legend. And I was watching clips from Korean national television where they're talking about the team. They've blurred his his whole body. Like.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Personal non grata, like in a very literal way.

• 35:15Trevor Noah?

  They've blurred him like a, you know, like the way the news would blur a dead body.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm.

• 35:19Trevor Noah?

  They don't, they don't, they'd say he mustn't come into stores. They say like.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Okay, so a couple of things. One.

• 35:25Trevor Noah?

  That seems like it's too, come on.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  One, so just a little bit of history. Hong Min Bo led South Korea to their greatest ever finish.

• 35:31Trevor Noah?

  Semi-final, yeah.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Two thousand and two World Cup, yes. They lost their third place to Turkey. So he was, actually, he won the bronze ball at that World Cup. He was the third best player at that World Cup. He's a legend, legend. So, you know, he becomes a coach. It was a controversial appointment in South Korea, but then the one thing is South Korea has been fighting with the media. And I don't know whether you saw the reports of the media, like mocking Hong Min.

• 35:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I saw that. I saw that.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  And then they didn't put up a good enough performance, lost to South Africa. And so this has now happened. He has gone from hero of South Korean football, like to like. And in South Korea, normally when you fall from grace, you really do fall from grace. Uh, but I think, I think the team came in a bit like Turkey. They came in very high on expectation and when you.

• 36:15Trevor Noah?

  It is, it's the curse of the World Cup. When you, when you come in.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Uruguay.

• 36:19Trevor Noah?

  And, and people have already chosen you to go through. I do think it's one of the curses, like, look at how Team USA has performed because they were not.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  They were no hope.

• 36:26Trevor Noah?

  They were not the anointed ones. Look at how even South Africa performed. Look at how, um.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Cape Vard and yes.

• 36:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but those are like small, they were always like the, I'm talking about like the middling teams have sort of done better. Because they didn't have the presumptive pressure on them.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Expectation can be too much, yes.

• 36:42Trevor Noah?

  And, and I argue that, you know, um, it's not keeping your eye on the ball until it's in your hands or on your foot.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Okay, in which way, like.

• 36:51Trevor Noah?

  You know, great athletes always say, no matter, no matter the level of game, whenever you see an athlete make a mistake. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, it's because they took their eye off the ball at the last second. They were shooting, they took their eye off the ball. They were trapping, they took their eye off the ball. They were passing, they took their eye off the ball. And really, all it is is keeping your eye on the ball until the point where it feels like it's unnecessary then taking your eye away.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:15Trevor Noah?

  Right? I think teams that came into the World Cup looking at their next games already.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  You're right, yes.

• 37:21Trevor Noah?

  At the next round, yes.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  They assumed they're already qualified, yes.

• 37:24Trevor Noah?

  They took their eye off the ball. And so, you know, and, and, and the opposite of that, though, is African teams. I mean, South Africa's knocked out now.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:34Trevor Noah?

  But nine out of ten African teams made it through to the knockout stages.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  It's so funny you say about, it's so funny you brought up that, you know, old adage about, you know, keep your eye on the ball because

• 37:44Speaker 01

  it's almost like when you come into World Cup.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  It sounds like a tired, tired phrase, but they go like, take it a game at a time.

• 37:51Trevor Noah?

  One game at a time.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Take it one game at a time.

• 37:53Trevor Noah?

  One game.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Don't plan for the future, one game at a time. So African teams are the, they, they actually expanded and increased the number of representatives from Africa from five to ten.

• 38:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  And so many Europeans.

• 38:06Trevor Noah?

  Yo, man, they slammed it.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  The UEFA president, they went like, oh, this is a charity case, it's going to make the World Cup worse. How are these teams going to compete? And look, Africa.

• 38:16Trevor Noah?

  They didn't even qualify for the World Cup.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Italy didn't make it, and then Africa, ninety percent of our representatives have made it to the knockout rounds. For me, this, you know when Shakira said it's time for Africa? She was sixteen years too early, because this really has been, apart from Tunisia, and Tunisia has been, I, I feel bad for Tunisia because they conceded six goals, was it five goals in their first game?

• 38:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Fired their coach, conceded four in the next game, then conceded three, so they were like, you could see the improvement coming game by game.

• 38:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but way, way too late.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  It was way too late, and I, I feel sad for Tunisian fans because they have produced some of the best defenders I knew growing up, from Radja Idi to, you know, uh, the Hatem, the Hateman, Sani Trabelsi, the keeper Chokri, Chokrieroa. They have always had a good defensive side, and to see them fall apart the way they did, but let's not talk about Tunisia, they had a tough World Cup, let's talk about the African. Every African team has really shown up and shown out.

• 39:09Trevor Noah?

  But you, but I'm worried now.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  We need another spot, actually. Now we are demanding two more spots.

• 39:13Trevor Noah?

  But now I'm worried now.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Because Nigeria stayed behind.

• 39:15Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you why I'm worried?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 39:17Trevor Noah?

  I'm worried because I don't think the African teams still in the competition.

• 39:24Trevor Noah?

  Maybe barring Senegal have shown, in my opinion, enough incisiveness in front of goal.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  That's the problem. That has been the problem.

• 39:34Trevor Noah?

  Like, like, I was waiting for for DR Congo to, like, maybe this is the awakening. I'm really excited for this. But like, like Courtevoir, I thought they would be like more, more dangerous in front of goal, you know, I, I, I thought that Morocco would be more dangerous in front of goal. I thought that, like, I just thought that.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Apart from Smaral Sibari, they have been really struggled, yes.

• 39:55Trevor Noah?

  You know, and I, I hope it's just a moment.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I'll say this way, I disagree with you. I think, okay, that favors African teams.

• 40:01Trevor Noah?

  You think so?

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Going through the knockout rounds, because then if you get a draw, you're going to penalties.

• 40:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you see, I think that's why South Africa got knocked out.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:07Trevor Noah?

  Because I think sometimes African teams, and maybe it's because again, you know, sometimes you can't win. For a long time, African teams were told you don't know how to defend, you just play the game casually, and that's why you lose. Now, African teams actually defend really, really well.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Very disciplined, yes.

• 40:19Trevor Noah?

  But I think that can lead to a knockout sucker punch like South Africa experienced. Because you only need to concede one goal.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Also, you're saying the pendramas swung from one side to the other. Because we used to be very attack-minded.

• 40:32Trevor Noah?

  South African, like African team, not just South African, African teams used to lose, like, the, the, the final match score would be like four, three.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 40:39Trevor Noah?

  That was an African match at the World Cup.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:41Trevor Noah?

  Full of excitement, losing, but man, what a great game. And then now it's always like one nil, penalties. One nil, penalties, one nil, penalties. And my problem is, in the knockout stages, when you play against a team that has like moments of excellence with maybe players who are slightly better than you. If the Netherlands goes into a knockout match with Morocco, I worry more for the, for Morocco than the Netherlands in the knockout part of a game.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:08Trevor Noah?

  But in the match itself, I think Morocco can come back. They can swing things back and forth. They can, you know what I mean? That, they can, they can survive the momentum shifts. But I worry about teams who like, who are too structured going into the game. I worry that they may not, they may not come out on the other side.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  But I, I, I think for me, that's a huge advantage because. If you can't stop goals, and again, it's another of those old proverbs, tired. Defenses win your championships, you know, defenses win your games.

• 41:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  For me, I think if you keep wordless, you're not going to get into a scoring contest with Argentina. You'll never win it.

• 41:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but that's Cape Verde.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm saying you'll never win it, but you can hope to stop Argentina. You can hope, that's like your best hope.

• 41:51Trevor Noah?

  But my problem is, but you know.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  You need the structure to stop Argentina.

• 41:54Trevor Noah?

  People use this, so if you, let's say you're in a boxing match with somebody.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 41:59Trevor Noah?

  Yes, blocking is a great way to stop them from hitting you, but you know what's also a great way to stop them from hitting? Is punching them.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Knocking them out, yes.

• 42:05Trevor Noah?

  Not even knocking them out.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 42:06Trevor Noah?

  The fact that you throw a punch means the other person has to think about throwing a punch at the same time.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 42:11Trevor Noah?

  You, you, you know, and I, I, I just worry that in some of these games, the teams are less worried about throwing punches and more worried about blocking every punch. And I think that gives the other team a lot of time to figure out what's happening.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  To build momentum, yes.

• 42:24Trevor Noah?

  Calibrate the attack, et cetera, et cetera. In fact, the one thing I will say that might help them is the hydration breaks, actually. I do think the hydration breaks are gonna help African teams.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Break momentum, yes.

• 42:36Trevor Noah?

  Because it segments the game into four and it's a lot easier to keep your concentration in twenty minute periods than it is to keep it over forty five minutes.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Let's survive twenty minutes, yeah.

• 42:45Trevor Noah?

  Boys, let's do it. Twenty, twenty-three minutes, well done. Twenty-three minutes, well done. Okay, twenty-three minutes, well done. Twenty-three, I do think it's easier to defend four quarters of a soccer game, football game.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Two halves, yes.

• 42:55Trevor Noah?

  Than, than, than two halves. Um, which brings me to another rule change, since we're now changing rules, since we now play football in quarters. I love how they tricked us into that, by the way.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Slowly, dang, dang, and then before.

• 43:06Trevor Noah?

  I mean, they tricked us, let's be honest. It's, is it time to change the offside rule?

• 43:11Speaker 01

  I think here's what I believe.

• 43:12Trevor Noah?

  So I'll answer and then I'll, and then I'll, you can, so my answer is yes, but tell me why I'm right, Joe.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  I think it's become too much draw lines, this and that and this and that and this part of the body and this tiny little nail does have a longer foot.

• 43:26Trevor Noah?

  Toes, bruh.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Yes, toes. I think the offside draw. I think Wenger is trying to change it.

• 43:31Trevor Noah?

  Yes, he is, and I like it.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  But here's what I believe. I believe if the referee goes, I feel it should be the way it is, but if the referee goes to the VAR monitor and can't see it in fifteen seconds, the goal should be given.

• 43:45Trevor Noah?

  Oh, interesting.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  We should remove the lines. If the referee can't notice his mistake in fifteen, if he can't see it and go like, oh, it's offside, then it should be given.

• 43:53Trevor Noah?

  That's a, no, I don't like that one. No, I don't like that one.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Instead of spending three minutes drawing lines.

• 43:57Trevor Noah?

  I don't like that one because now we've put the burden on the referee to notice or not notice their mistake.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Fifteen seconds in front of the monitor is now.

• 44:03Trevor Noah?

  Let's just make it simple. If there's daylight, because remember the, the origin of offside was a specific one. The origin of the rule is, we did not want one player to sit on the other side of the field, which they used to do, by the way. They would just sit on the other side of the field, like you see it in basketball sometimes. You're all the way on the other side of the court, they just throw you the ball, you're under the hoop.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Nikola Jokic.

• 44:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and you just, you just drop it in, okay? That's why we have offside. When you understand what a rule is for, I think the logic behind the rule is as important as the application of the rule.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Spirit of the rule, yes.

• 44:38Trevor Noah?

  So, the spirit of the rule was not about, is a body part of yours edging out over mine? No, it's.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Denying an advantage, yes.

• 44:47Trevor Noah?

  Are you, are you playing the game in such a way that it's not like, you know, I don't want to say like fair, but it's like, you're spoiling the game, you know, because really you could also just wait in the goals, wait for the ball, step in front of the goalie, et cetera, et cetera, right? So, that's why the rule exists. I think it's time to change the rule. I think we lost great goals and great results because of this rule. You know, I think Iran didn't deserve to get knocked out. I think that Colombia deserved to beat Portugal.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:16Trevor Noah?

  And, and, and what I mean is like football gets robbed, because even as a neutral, I'm watching that game going, wow, what an ending. No, it's not an ending because of a toe.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Because of a toe, yes. No, I would say the offside rule has been the most controversial and, you know, for people who are not like fans of the game, every time they change it. They've never changed it and everyone is on board. Every time they change it, it's always like, ah.

• 45:39Trevor Noah?

  Remember when you guys broke it at Barcelona?

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Ah, yes. It's always like, everyone, it's, it, like, they have tried, you know, I'll give the International, you know, Football Associations Board. They have tried time and again, to try to figure this thing out, but it's like, because footballers, every time you change it, guess what footballers do? They try to find a loophole around it and where to exploit it and.

• 46:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I mean, here's not even a loophole. Here's just feet. I don't think somebody shortened their foot to find a loophole. I, I just think this didn't, it, it just didn't help the game. It, it hasn't helped the game. And then now you have teams getting knocked out. And Iran, by the way, you know, you know what I mean? Like.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I think the only, the only team that has had such a cruel roller coaster of emotions than South Africa.

• 46:25Trevor Noah?

  Now worse, way worse. No, way worse. I don't, I don't think South Africa comes close.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It was, it was brutal, man.

• 46:30Trevor Noah?

  Iran comes into the World Cup, they don't stay in the US, they have to fly in for every single game. They're getting visas checked and they're doing like immigration, customs and immigration, which is already a nightmare if you're traveling with your family. Imagine now trying to go play a World Cup match, you know what I mean? And you're worried about all your documents and stuff like that. You don't just get, you don't get to just like drive to the game.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Make it into the country, forget here.

• 46:51Trevor Noah?

  And then on top of all of that, and this is something we, we, we need to like figure out, there needs to be like a blanket, in my opinion. It needs to be a blanket agreement because it has to be applied uniformly. Iranian players were constantly being forced to answer questions about Iran, the country and its politics. And then at some point, they're like asking them about LGBTQ issues, which in my opinion is like a trap by the reporters. And I'll tell you why. You can't ask Iranian players about LGBTQ rights when you know what the rules are in their country. Because people are quick to have that arrogance now. People forget like, America didn't have, hasn't had like gay marriage for a hundred years.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 47:31Trevor Noah?

  You know what I'm saying? America hasn't had gay marriage for fifty years. America hasn't had gay marriage for, you get what I'm saying? So for them to now be like so arrogant about like, oh, your country doesn't, it's like, no, guys, guys, guys, we have to be fair. If you're gonna do it, do it to everyone. If you're gonna ask. If you're gonna ask Taremy about gay rights and if you're gonna ask Taremy about um what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz, then you must ask Christian Pulisic about gay marriage in America and the possible ending of gay marriage and the Strait of Hormuz. If you're gonna ask Taremy those questions, then you must ask Messi about Argentina. You're gonna ask, then you must ask people about what's happening in Europe. You, you can't, I think that's an extra level of um pressure.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  That a player doesn't need when they're playing.

• 48:14Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but not even need, it's just the fairness for me is the issue.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Yes, some people will say with great power comes great responsibility.

• 48:21Trevor Noah?

  But the greatest of the powers don't have any responsibility.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yes, I understand it's selective. I'll say, uh, if I'm Iranian, the reason I feel it's unfair is because people are never, especially like sportsmen, and I understand what Pogorak, but they need to speak out, but people are never representative of their governments. There are people on the Iranian team who love the IRGC, there are people who don't like the IRGC. The same way they pawned the American team who love Trump and people like Trump. So it's uh when you reduce people to their government, because actually most times people go like, no, the government sucks.

• 49:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Most people everywhere go like, our government sucks.

• 49:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  But we as people, which is why sometimes people go like, oh, that's, I think they don't want us to meet because when people meet, they realize, oh, the one thing we have in common is we all think our government sucks. So it's very funny.

• 49:15Trevor Noah?

  I mean, that's happened, that's happened like this, this.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, this whole world cup, everybody's gonna get our government, oh, you.

• 49:19Trevor Noah?

  There are so many Europeans who are like, wow, actually Americans are great people. And Americans are like, wow, so many Europeans are great people. And people are like, oh, wait, wait, wait. The one thing we have in common.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Is we think all our government, all our politicians.

• 49:30Trevor Noah?

  All our politicians are the ones who actually suck.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Because I had a friend tell me, the one thing, the one job that Trump had this whole world cup is to not make me root for Iran. But because of the way they were treated, he turned them into underdogs and Americans love.

• 49:46Trevor Noah?

  America made history though.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Americans love.

• 49:48Trevor Noah?

  America made history though, first nation to bomb a country that they're also hosting at a sports tournament. It's pretty wild, man. What a wild time we're living in. And by the way, I don't know if you saw the answer that he gave, but I, you know, that's why, this is why I give credit. I'll tell you why. I can see a player losing their cool. I can see a player feeling, no, every press conference where they asked him a question. I felt like he was measured. He was classy. And the question they asked him in Seattle about LGBTQ and pride and everything, he said. And I'm sure you'll get flack for it. He said, I respect anyone who's from the LGBTQ community. Live your life. You have your opinions and your life and your preferences. Some other people have different ones.

• 50:31Trevor Noah?

  Like live, you get what I'm saying? It wasn't even like, like anti, no, he was like, but I don't understand why we're not talking about the game.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Now they push back Hobie and this will be from the anti-Teremy people. They go like, oh, but Teremy is a representative of the IRGC. But then that's the thing with national teams. National teams are representatives.

• 50:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I don't.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Of the country, not the government.

• 50:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I also think, but I also think we need to be, we need to be fair as well. We also have to be, I think we have to have a little bit more leniency and a little bit more compassion for teams and players and athletes who come from countries where you can't just speak your mind.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 51:03Trevor Noah?

  Because that's some bullshit as well, Joe.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  First amendment, yeah.

• 51:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, we're gonna get like, no, we're gonna get some North Korean player and be like, so what do you think of Kim Jong-un? Tell us what you really think.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  With your chest, yes.

• 51:12Trevor Noah?

  Go back.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  My family is, no, I don't, I don't need to go back. My family is back.

• 51:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, bro, like I think sometimes, sometimes we make it seem like they can just talk shit with no like.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  You don't make it. I feel like Western people make it because Western people go like, as an American, I can go there, say crap about my government.

• 51:27Trevor Noah?

  Good for you.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  And nothing will happen to my family.

• 51:29Trevor Noah?

  Yes, good for you.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  So they, it's almost like privilege. Where you go, hey, you need to check your privilege.

• 51:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, man, good for you. I, I just think we need to be like, it's like, just be a little bit more understanding and compassionate in those situations. Because people say, oh, you should speak out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you say that. But please understand that not every situation has the same level of speak out ability as yours does.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:49Trevor Noah?

  And that's one of the joys of having the freedoms that you have.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:52Trevor Noah?

  Is that you have those freedoms.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  I don't know whether it's a wrong attribution or not, but the former Ugandan dictator Idi Amin.

• 51:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Used to say, you know, I'll give you, you have freedom of speech, but what we can't guarantee is freedom after speech. You know, you can say whatever you want, but after you've said it.

• 52:09Trevor Noah?

  Yo, man, dictators.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Yes, oh, they have bars, eh?

• 52:11Trevor Noah?

  Yo, dictators have some other bars. Um, so, okay, this is it, man, round of thirty-two. Let's, uh, let's make it fun, Joe. Let's, let's, let's go through the bracket together. No, no, let's just make it, let's just make it, we'll just make it interesting. You know what? We'll just do it until the next, we won't even go too far.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:27Trevor Noah?

  Let's just do it until the next episode of the podcast.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:31Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so South Africa, Canada has played.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that has been.

• 52:33Trevor Noah?

  We're recording this before the next round of games. So let's go, uh, Brazil, Japan.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  I think Brazil have too much individual quality. You know, uh, Japan is very organized, very well drilled, but all it takes is a mini masterpiece.

• 52:46Trevor Noah?

  Score?

• 52:46Speaker 01

  I think, I think it should be, I see two-one.

• 52:50Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Two-one, yes.

• 52:51Trevor Noah?

  Two-one.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Two-one, Brazil.

• 52:53Trevor Noah?

  I think I go three-one Brazil or three-two Brazil. Germany, Paraguay?

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Ah, Germany.

• 52:57Trevor Noah?

  Germany on this side as well.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  I'll be shocked if Paraguay.

• 52:59Trevor Noah?

  I'll be shocked if Paraguay scores, to be honest with you.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Germany, Germany, easily, yes. They're still struggling with their identity, Germany. They don't know whether they are, because you know, they're all German team, very, very old German team. But now they have so many, what people call work footballers, you know, Kai Havertz is a half false nine. That's, Germany used to have natural killers, Klinsmann, Oliver Bierhoff, Rudolph. Now you have like these half nines, yeah, no, so much work.

• 53:22Trevor Noah?

  It is, it is, it is a team, it is a team that's experiencing a transition in how they play football.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  An identity crisis.

• 53:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, identity crisis.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  They still have too much for Paraguay, yes.

• 53:30Trevor Noah?

  Netherlands, Morocco, that's an interesting one.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  I think Morocco is going to take it. I think Morocco have enough individual quality.

• 53:35Trevor Noah?

  Damn, that confidence.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  They are struggling to score goals. They are only outlet is Ismael Saibari, who fun enough played, plays for PSV. He might be moving to Bayern Munich, but he plays for PSV.

• 53:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  In Holland, so.

• 53:46Trevor Noah?

  So that might be an advantage.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I.

• 53:48Trevor Noah?

  But I don't know, man, I disagree with you there. I think, I think the Netherlands is gonna take it.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  I think, I think, I think the Netherlands have been very shaky.

• 53:53Trevor Noah?

  I think the Netherlands, yeah, but the Netherlands, when it gets to knockout games, they are giant killers.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  No, I think they've gone as far.

• 53:58Trevor Noah?

  And they kill big teams. The only time they lost in Qatar was when Messi robbed them. Messi did that handball, you know that was a handball, Joe?

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Yes, it was a handball.

• 54:06Trevor Noah?

  Okay, thank you, that's all I needed. All right, moving on, next round of games, let's go through them quick, Cote d'Ivoire, Norway.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Norway, Norway has too much quality both off the bench, yeah, on and off the bench.

• 54:16Trevor Noah?

  France Sweden.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  France Sweden, come on, that's easy France.

• 54:19Trevor Noah?

  Mexico, Ecuador, this is a tough one.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  That's a tough one because Mexico is playing.

• 54:23Trevor Noah?

  I'll only chime in when I disagree by the way, so I agree with all of these so far.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  They haven't lost a game at Azteca, but the one advantage they have at Azteca, which is it's a high altitude ground, Ecuador.

• 54:33Trevor Noah?

  Oh.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Comes from Quito, for them that's all they know, so their advantage of playing like, you know, because you need oxygen at a high altitude. Ecuador is good with that, Ecuador struggles with goals as well, they have a great defense, but Anna Valencia is leading their line, I think Ecuador is going to shed it. I think Ecuador is going to shed it.

• 54:49Trevor Noah?

  They're gonna win it.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Yes, I think they're going to shed it, I think they're going to progress.

• 54:52Trevor Noah?

  I think Mexico's gonna beat them, just because the home ground is too much on this one.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Mexico also has a class, they never make it past the first knockout phase, and so they either break it today or yes.

• 55:00Trevor Noah?

  This is where we break curses, they've also never won the their first game, remember?

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right, yeah, you're right, yeah.

• 55:05Trevor Noah?

  So this is the, this is the year of breaking curses, Arsenal, the Knicks.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  I think Ecuador is going to, I think Ecuador is going to win, yes.

• 55:09Trevor Noah?

  Okay, England, DR Congo.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  I think England will have, England, England always makes heavy with the progressing that they did against, but I think England will have a little bit too much quality.

• 55:18Trevor Noah?

  Even without a right back?

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Yes, they have enough, they have, they have too much quality.

• 55:22Trevor Noah?

  If I was Congo, I'm just pressing that left, that uh, that left side.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then, but then Congo also has Iron One Bisaka this side, so that England will also be concentrating on that side, I think England will have a little, yeah.

• 55:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I'm saying, I think England is in trouble, I think England is, is, is, um, that, uh, what's that, um, in karate kid, you know, when like the leg is.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, you're limping, yes, yes.

• 55:41Trevor Noah?

  I think they're limping through the rest of this tournament.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  I think they struggle against the low block and DR Congo are going to play, and by the way, DR Congo use the low block to frustrate.

• 55:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, Portugal, yeah, they did.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Portugal and Ronaldo, so I think England will struggle, but they will shed it, they have enough quality to shed it.

• 55:54Trevor Noah?

  Belgium, Senegal.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Belgium, Senegal.

• 55:56Trevor Noah?

  That's a tough one, that can go either way.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  I think Belgium is going to win, I think Belgium is, I think Belgium are slowly, slowly gaining momentum, slowly gaining momentum.

• 56:04Trevor Noah?

  I think you're wrong, Senegal's winning, I say Senegal's winning, um, I think Senegal's scoring more, and I think they look more confident, USA Bosnia, I say USA is winning.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  I think Bosnia is going to surprise the US.

• 56:13Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 56:14Speaker 01

  I think Bosnia is going to surprise the US, do you remember, Bo- Bosnia, people forget, Bosnia is a team that dumped Italy out. People forget that. They had a shaky start to the World Cup.

• 56:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but Italy was playing trash.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but Italy's playing trash. USA is not playing like Italy, bro.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Do you know?

• 56:28Trevor Noah?

  I never thought I'd say that phrase.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yes, you're right.

• 56:30Trevor Noah?

  My mouth even now is like.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  It almost protested, yes.

• 56:33Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but it's true. USA is not playing like, Italy was not playing US. Okay, let's go. Spain, Austria.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  I think Spain easily.

• 56:40Trevor Noah?

  Okay, Portugal, Croatia. That can be tough. That can be surprisingly tough, actually.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  That's going to be tough.

• 56:46Trevor Noah?

  Because Portugal hasn't shown me they can beat Croatia.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  No, that's going to be tough. But whatever happens, a legend is going back home. Modric on one hand, Cristiano Ronaldo on the other. I think, I think Cristiano Ronaldo has never scored a goal in a knockout stage.

• 56:58Trevor Noah?

  I think Portugal's gonna win.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  And if that continues, Croatia is going to win it.

• 57:02Trevor Noah?

  I think Portugal's gonna win, and I think they'll bring somebody on like Liao. I think Liao is gonna be their star and he's gonna make it happen.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Ronaldo, Ronaldo, Ronaldo is going to play ninety minutes.

• 57:10Trevor Noah?

  Switzerland, Algeria.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Switzerland will have too much quality for.

• 57:15Trevor Noah?

  Hey, those Algerian boys look fire on the wing.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  They have that boy Mazzambi.

• 57:18Trevor Noah?

  No, Mazzambi is fantastic. Look, I'm rooting for Switzerland, but Algeria's looking strong.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  You know, controlling things in the middle.

• 57:23Trevor Noah?

  All right, two more, two more. Australia, Egypt.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  I want Egypt to go through.

• 57:29Trevor Noah?

  I think Egypt.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I want Mousa.

• 57:30Trevor Noah?

  Argentina, Cape Verde.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Oh, come on.

• 57:32Trevor Noah?

  Wow, Cape Verde, you're that confident.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  The thing is, I really tipped Cape Verde, but I can't.

• 57:37Trevor Noah?

  Colombia, Ghana.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Colombia, Ghana, Colombia. Colombia showed so much quality in that game against Portugal, yes.

• 57:44Trevor Noah?

  All right, that's all we have for now, man. It's gonna be exciting.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  Oof, we're just, I think we've, right, but around maybe thirty more games to go.

• 57:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, this is, this is it now.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Man, time does rush when you're having fun. Because I wish there were actually ninety more games. I'm having so much fun. I'm having so much fun with the.

• 58:01Trevor Noah?

  Well, with the hydration breaks, we're getting, we're getting extra time, so we're good. We're getting extra time at the World Cup.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  No, but now we're in the business and win or go home. How does, how do they say at American Idol, go big or?

• 58:11Trevor Noah?

  Or go home.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Go home. So there's going to be lots more heartbreak for people who are just starting to get into the game. What you saw with South Africa today is just going to keep happening and happening and happening.

• 58:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I'm proud of my boys. We did it, man.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 58:23Trevor Noah?

  Because this is what I keep saying. Only one team wins the World Cup. But every nation has an opportunity to make their country proud. Make your country proud.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  But Fana did make you proud.

• 58:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, man, make your country proud. You lose, it's respectable, whatever. Don't lose badly, play well, do your thing. Walk with your head held high.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Make sure that when your coach goes back home, he's not blurred.

• 58:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, just don't get your coach blurred.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Yes, that's the only joke.

• 58:46Trevor Noah?

  That's all it is. That's all it is. Alright, man, this was fun. I'll see you next week.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, this was a pleasure, just a pleasure.

• 58:55Trevor Noah?

  Thank you again so much to the sponsor of today's episode, Mazda. Mazda delivers confidence and control in every single drive. And Consumer Reports' safest new car brand award proves it. You know, there's a phrase I really like. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. And that's true. A calm drive home, a conversation that continues, a trip that stays exactly what it was supposed to be. That's what we're looking for. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand in America. Mazda's safety features are designed to bring more enjoyment to every drive,

• 59:39Trevor Noah?

  not to take away from it, so you can do what you feel like doing. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand, people. Safest. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services.

• 1:00:00Trevor Noah?

  What Now World Cup bonus episodes are produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. Executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, Ryan Harduth and Rebecca Shane. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join us every Monday during the World Cup for bonus episodes of What Now with Trevor Noah.