312: The Adelson Case: Real-Life Sopranos, Wealthy Family Executes Hired Hit

This week on Serialously with Annie Elise, the trial of Donna Adelson finally begins and the entire Adelson family is once again put under a microscope. From the shocking murder of law professor Dan Markel to the years of suspicion that have surrounded Donna, her son Charlie, and others, Annie unpacks how this family went from a picture of success to the center of one of the most notorious murder-for-hire cases in recent memory. With the Adelsons’ complicated relationships, mounting legal battles, and Donna now preparing to face a jury, Annie brings you everything you need to know as the courtroom doors open.🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks 🔎 Join The Club: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to EXTRA deep dive episodes every week on Apple!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164🚩Announcements🚩Want to Catch Annie LIVE on Tour? 🎤 🎟Grab your tickets now for a city near you: https://annieelise.com/pages/tour🌸MERCH IS OFFICIALLY HERE! 🌸Shop now at https://annieelise.com/collections/shop-allDon't miss out before your faves sell out! 🛒🌷Follow Annie on Socials 📸 🩷Instagram: @ _annieelise, https://www.instagram.com/_annieelise/?hl=en💜TikTok: @_annieelise, https://www.tiktok.com/@_annieelise?lang=en🗞️ Substack: @annieelise, https://substack.com/@annieelise💙Facebook: @10tolife, https://www.facebook.com/10toLIFEShop Annie’s Closet & Must-Haves! 👗Poshmark: https://posh.mk/Tdbki6Ae0RbShopMY: https://shopmy.us/annieeliseAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/shop/10tolife?ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_aipsfshop_BKN1ZMCMEZHACVFQ2R75&language=en_USDisclaimer ‣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me.🎙️ Follow the podcast for FREE on all podcast platforms! Apple:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/6HdheEH8WeMTHoe5da34qUAll Other Platforms: https://audioboom.com/channels/5100770-serialously-with-annie-eliseGet Involved or Recommend the Case 💬 About Annie: https://annieelise.com/For Business Inquiries: [email protected] Sources 🔗Court TVLaw & CrimeTallahassee DemocratWCTVWTXL ABC 27*Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. ••••••••••••••••••Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 0:55Speaker 02

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• 1:27Annie Elise?

  Hey, everybody. Wanted to just let you know that this episode is a bonus episode. I know it's releasing outside of the regular release schedule. That's why it's a great idea to make sure that you're following this podcast because this is something that we do from time to time. But I wanted to release this because the trial is currently underway, and a lot of people have been asking for like a full breakdown of the case because it is so complex. It's like these bootleg sopranos who thought that they were like this wealthy, calculated, great family, and it's kind of been like a domino effect. They're all going down one by one. One of the trials is happening right now and all the main media circuits are covering it. It's seems very reminiscent of Karen Reed, maybe not as, you know, huge in mainstream,

• 2:10Annie Elise?

  but like certainly it has a lot of eyes on it. But that being said, the backstory of this case is a little complex. So I wanted to break everything down for you guys so that you can follow along with this trial in real time, know all the players, know all the backstory and everything like that. So again, little bonus episode for you today in the feed. Curious to hear your thoughts and I'll probably throw some trial updates and headline highlights, but this is for sure a very wild case. So there you go.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  Dan Markel, a celebrated law professor and loving father, was shot execution style in his Tallahassee garage on July 18th, 2014. If confessed killer Luis Rivera is telling the truth, Dan Markel's own ex-wife Wendy may have financed the hit that took his life.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  At the time, the Tallahassee Police Department drafted arrest affidavits for Charlie Adelson and his mom Donna.

• 3:02Speaker 05

  Donna and Harvey Adelson and their daughter Wendy Adelson were all named as unindicted co-conspirators during the trial.

• 3:09Speaker 06

  These are dentists. These aren't the sopranos. Okay.

• 3:16Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serial Sleep.

• 3:39Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the True Crime Podcast Serial Sleep with me, your host, Annie Elise. Hope you had a fantastic weekend, that you are getting ready to like start the week strong, whether you're getting the kids back in school, maybe you're commuting to work, maybe you're just cleaning the house, maybe you're on a hot girl walk. I don't know, but whatever it is you're doing, I hope you were starting your week strong. Now, The reason for today's episode, well, we obviously do a deep dive every single Monday, right? So there doesn't really need to be a reason, but there is a reason today. And the reason today is because we are doing a mega deep dive on one of the craziest cases that I have ever covered. And there is a huge update in this case as well. It is so beyond

• 4:24Annie Elise?

  wild. I thought that because of this update, it was the perfect time to now do this episode and talk about everything that's going on in this very complex, very wild case. And it's a case that's about to go to trial, which spoiler alert, we are probably going to go to that trial and cover in person because it's a case that we have been watching for years now. And once you hear all of the details, you'll understand why this, I keep saying that this case is so crazy because it truly, truly is. You have got murder, cover up, collusion, family members covering for one another, hiring hits, doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

• 5:06Annie Elise?

  Then someone trying to flee the country so that they don't get caught, yet they get arrested at the airport. I mean, there is a lot to unpack. So rather than just giving you the updates and the pre-trial updates, I decided, you know, what the hell? Let's go for it. Let's go all the way back to the beginning. Like, who's that singer? Is it Hilary Duff? Let's go back and back to the beginning. I am obviously not a singer. And I think that's Hilary Duff, right? I don't know. But anyway, you get my point. So I want to go back to the start. I want to give you all of the background, all of the red flags, the details, the media, the convictions, the sentencing, everything, everything, all

• 5:51Annie Elise?

  in one spot. And you might be thinking, all right, Andy, just slow it on down. Like, calm down, take a beat, relax. You just said this case is about to go to trial. Why on earth are you covering it now? Why not just wait until the trial is over? Well, I'll tell you why. It's because this case has already had not one. Not two, not three, but four convictions. Four. Count them on your fingers. Four convictions. And now a fifth person is about to head to trial. And it is all for the same murder. That is how complicated this is getting. That is how many people are involved in this. So yeah, this case is complicated. It's crazy, but you know, I'm here.

• 6:33Annie Elise?

  I'm here as your true crime bestie and I'm going to break it all down for you. And if you haven't guessed already, for those of you who are, you know, true crime sleuths, true crime enthusiasts, you probably already did guess. But for those of you who have not, this is the case of Dan Markel and the Adelson family. Originally from Canada, Dan Markel was a Harvard Law School graduate. He was a brilliant legal mind, a respected law professor at FSU. And he was a devoted father to two young boys with a beautiful wife named Wendy Adelson. After graduating from Harvard, Dan had moved to DC, where Wendy, his now wife, was also working at the time. Wendy was working in DC with an internship while attending University of Miami Law School.

• 7:16Annie Elise?

  The two of them met on a dating app called JDate, which is actually a very popular dating app that is aimed at Jewish singles. Both Dan and Wendy were Jewish. However, for Dan, religion was extremely important to him and he embraced more of the day-to-day traditional Jewish values, more so than Wendy did. So one day while Wendy was online browsing JDate for potential suitors, she came across Dan's profile. Now what's different a little bit in Wendy's case is as she was looking online at this website, her mom was looking with her, which I guess isn't that uncommon. I've just never really heard of it before, but I guess they were doing it together. And I suppose that makes sense for a mother and daughter. I don't know. I guess you want your mom to weigh in. It just seems a little personal for me.

• 8:00Annie Elise?

  But anyways, so she's like perusing through JDate and she comes across Dan's profile. And her mom really encouraged her to make a connection with him based off of what his profile had to say, that he was this strong Jewish man, had these great values. So she decided to proceed with it. So Wendy and Dan hit it off. They dated and then they eventually got married with both sides of the family contributing to the wedding. Now, while both sides of the families contributed to the finances in the wedding, Wendy's family paid for all of the catering in the family, which normally wouldn't strike you as anything specific. But here's where things got interesting with that. During the wedding, Dan had found that all of the food that was being served was not kosher. And if you remember, all

• 8:42Annie Elise?

  of his traditional Jewish values are very important to him. So now, seeing his new wife's family, who volunteered to pay for all of the catering, had done so but hadn't kept kosher for any of it, really upset him. It really bothered him. But little did he know that this one move would truly set the table for he and Wendy's entire marriage, including his relationship with his now-in-laws. After they got married, Dan received a job offer from FSU. So the two of them built a life together in Tallahassee, Florida. However, in 2012, after seven years of marriage, Wendy had filed for divorce. Now, according to court documents, Dan returned home from a business trip and he found his family completely

• 9:23Annie Elise?

  gone. A majority of the furniture in the house was missing, and the divorce papers that Wendy had signed were just left laying on the bed. A complete abrupt move-out, divorce, it apparently shocked Dan completely. And not only was the divorce itself and the announcement of it abrupt, but after his split with Wendy, who was also now a lawyer and a professor at FSU as well, their divorce was anything but amicable, including a very nasty custody battle over their two children long after their divorce was finalized in the summer of 2013. Now, fast forward a year to the summer of 2014. That's when Dan and Wendy's neighbor heard what sounded like gunshots, and they immediately called 911.

• 10:06Speaker 07

  Okay, tell me exactly what happened. Uh, we heard it looked in, the garage door was up. And I thought the gentleman was backing out. And I went back to my house, but he never backed out. And I came back over and his wind, his, his driver's side window is shattered and he's battered and can't answer. He's inside. I don't know if somebody tried to shoot him, or if he shot himself, or what, I don't know. He didn't send an ambulance in a hurry. He ain't team.

• 10:37Speaker 07

  He's still alive. He's moving.

• 10:41Speaker 07

  Okay, what's going on with him? I don't know. The driver's side window is all bashed in and he's got blood all over his head. He's not responding to me. I think you need to hurry.

• 10:56Annie Elise?

  Police found Dan critically injured, but there wasn't any sign of robbery or even a break-in. So Dan was rushed to the hospital, but unfortunately later he died from his injuries. Now, police believed that this was a targeted homicide, but the question was who? And more importantly, why? Now, even though the two of them were divorced, Wendy was still Dan's next of kin. So the day that he died, police went to go and find her to notify her and alert her what had happened. And they did locate her because she happened to be at lunch with some of her friends. So they immediately notified her and then brought her in to be interviewed.

• 11:31Speaker 08

  Uh, there was a shooting at your home or your ex-husband's home at 2116 Tresca. Okay? Your husband, your ex-husband, excuse me, Daniel, alright, has been taken to the hospital.

• 11:54Speaker 08

  He's not going to survive.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Oh my god!

• 11:57Speaker 08

  Okay?

• 12:04Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry!

• 12:14Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry, man, it's funny!

• 12:19Speaker 03

  What happened?

• 12:20Speaker 08

  Well, before we get into everything, I have to establish where you were and who you were with and so forth.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:29Speaker 08

  Okay, and then once we've established all that, I can give you more details.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:34Speaker 08

  Do you understand why I wanted you to come here before I discussed this?

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Oh my god!

• 12:42Annie Elise?

  Now during this interview Wendy appeared to be absolutely devastated. And she gave the impression like despite the fact that she and Dan had their differences in court, he was still her boy's father and this was completely devastating to her and she was heartbroken. Wendy's interview was also over five hours long and it didn't take her long to say that she had absolutely nothing to do with this. And also for her to give some ideas to the police of who could have done this. She even suggested that someone might have targeted Dan for her, on her behalf, but without her knowledge. And then she said that it might have been a man named Jeff Lacoste, who was also another professor at FSU. Apparently Wendy and Jeff had previously dated, but they were now broken up.

• 13:27Annie Elise?

  So Wendy casually mentions this to police, saying, "Okay, it might have been Jeff. We dated. He knew about the issues that Dan and I were having." Then she casually mentioned that her brother Charlie also knew the intricate details of their tumultuous divorce, saying that at one point, her brother Charlie even bought her a TV as a divorce present, making a joke and saying, "I was going to hire a hitman, but a TV was less expensive."

• 13:52Speaker 08

  Do you know anybody that would have a beef against your ex-husband?

• 13:58Speaker 09

  Who would do this?

• 13:59Speaker 08

  I don't know. That's why you're here.

• 14:03Speaker 09

  He didn't like Danny because Danny hurt me. I see why he's a good suspect. It's like, what if it's Jeff? Like, then I did this by asking for some time away from him. I made him crazy. My parents have more reason to dislike Danny than almost anyone else. He hurt their daughter. They're very angry with him. But even my family, who felt like I had been mistreated, would never do something like this. Never. Danny has been shot.

• 14:33Speaker 09

  Well, my parents sounded really surprised, so it's at least a relief.

• 14:40Speaker 09

  I was trying to think of who would be angry enough to do something to him. My parents would be angry, but they're not capable of this.

• 14:48Speaker 09

  Thank God. I really couldn't handle that right now.

• 14:51Annie Elise?

  Now, in that interview, after speaking to her parents, Wendy said that she was relieved that her parents were surprised because that meant that she knew that they weren't in on it, which is a really weird thing to say, right? Because why would she even think that that would be a possibility in the first place? That her parents were in on the murder of her ex-husband and father of her children? So then more time passed, and a year after Dan's murder, nobody was arrested. Then the two-year mark happened. Still, nobody had been arrested, and people were now beginning to think that this was going to end up being a cold case, an unsolved case. However, in the background, investigators were still looking into Dan's murder, and they finally caught a lead in May of 2016, right around the two-year mark after Dan's murder.

• 15:36Annie Elise?

  The neighbor that called 911 had mentioned that he believed that he saw a light gold-colored vehicle that he believed might have been a Prius speeding away just after he heard those loud bangs.

• 15:46Speaker 07

  You said there was another vehicle that you saw driving away?

• 15:49Speaker 10

  Yes, and it left the scene rapidly. It looked sort of like a Prius. Investigators are asking anyone with information about this vehicle or similar vehicles to please call the tip line.

• 16:00Annie Elise?

  Tallahassee police dug deep into their investigation because they needed to now find this car. And eventually, they did. They tracked the car all the way to Miami to a very small car rental shop. And from there, police were able to identify who had rented that Prius back in July of 2014. It was two men, Luis Rivera and Sigfredo Garcia. Luis and Sigfredo had grown up together and knew each other for a very long time. Now, since police now had names, they were able to go through phone records. And it turned out that back in July of 2014, their phone locations did not do them any sort of favors whatsoever. On July 16th of 2014, police said that the suspects, Luis and Sigfredo,

• 16:45Annie Elise?

  traveled to Tallahassee from North Miami. This based on cellphone records, surveillance footage, and car rental information. The following day, on July 17th, Siegfriedo and Luis arrived in Tallahassee just after midnight. This again, according to cellphone records. Records also pinged their phones near Dan's house. Now initially, there was a witness who turned out to be a self-confessed drug dealer, who told police that he actually sold cocaine to Siegfriedo, and rented a hotel room in his own name for Siegfriedo and Luis. Then, the following day, around 11 a.m. on July 18th, Dan Markel was shot in the head. After the shooting, ATM video surveillance captured both men in the Prius, further establishing that these two guys were who the police needed to look at.

• 17:31Annie Elise?

  On May 25th, 2016, Siegfriedo was arrested on charges of first-degree murder and possession of cocaine. The next day, Tallahassee PD held a press conference, where they also named Luis as a suspect. On June 17th, both Siegfriedo and Luis were indicted on murder charges, meaning the state wasn't going to have a preliminary hearing of any sort. And both of the men pled not guilty. So now that they had their two guys, police were stuck with the job of figuring out, how the hell these two guys were involved with Dan? Why would they want to murder Dan? Why would they be involved in this horrific homicide at Dan's own house, shooting him in the head? So, they started looking back at the people that they initially interviewed. And one of those people was Wendy, Dan's ex-wife. And she had mentioned that she didn't know if somebody would have set something up

• 18:16Annie Elise?

  to kill Dan on her behalf, if you remember. And she even had mentioned her ex-boyfriend Jeff. Now remember, Jeff and Wendy had dated for about nine months, until just before Dan was murdered. In Jeff's interview, he said, "I'm the paranoid ex-boyfriend. I was surprised that you guys didn't call me earlier, though, because I probably said 100 times that I'd like to kick his ass because he kept really making Wendy suffer." He also mentioned a few other things in his interview. And Jeff backed up Wendy's story earlier about her brother Charlie. Except in his interview, Jeff didn't think that it was a joke.

• 18:48Speaker 06

  She told me that Charlie had looked into having Danny killed in the summer of 2013. She meant it dead serious. Not like I joke around, I like to kill Dan McCollum, I'm sick of this [BLEEP]. That's different. She said it in a dead serious, chilling, uncomfortable kind of way. And the moment I was like, my stomach flipped, I was like, whoa.

• 19:06Annie Elise?

  So we've got this contentious divorce and a custody battle. We've got Wendy admitting that her family did not like Dan. Now we've got the ex-boyfriend saying that Wendy's own brother wanted Dan dead. So who really was Wendy in all of this? Who was this family? And could they really all be responsible and in on such a horrible and heinous crime? Let's start with Wendy being the youngest child to her parents, Donna and Harvey Adelson.

• 19:32Speaker 11

  Adelson was raised among the soaring palm trees and beaches of sunny South Florida. Her well-heeled family operated a lucrative dentistry clinic named the Adelson Institute near Fort Lauderdale, where father Harvey and brother Charlie

• 19:47Speaker 12

  I am a periodontist owner.

• 19:50Speaker 11

  handled the drilling and filling, and her mother Donna coordinated patient care.

• 19:55Annie Elise?

  Donna and Harvey live in the Coral Springs area of Miami, where they have lived for a pretty long time. They have three children in total, Robert, Charlie, and Wendy. Their oldest son, Robert, became estranged from his family after getting married. But it seems like Wendy and Charlie had always been a little bit closer siblings from the get-go. They attended high school at the same time, they were closer in age, just things like that. They always were a little bit closer than she and Robert. Now their oldest son, Robert, became a doctor, and then Charlie went into the family dental practice as a periodontist, doing surgical implants, things like that. And Wendy decided to go to law school. So not bad, two doctors and a lawyer in your family. I would say you pretty much hit the jackpot there.

• 20:37Annie Elise?

  So growing up, the family was all pretty close, this happy cookie cutter life, right? Well, after Wendy had filed that ambush-style divorce and moved out while Dan was out of town on that business trip, she tried to move to be back closer to family in that Coral Springs area, which was about an eight-to-nine hour drive from where she and Dan lived with their kids. Well, Dan was apparently livid by this. And rightfully so. He didn't want her to take the children that far away from him, so he filed a motion against her in court. However, Wendy and her family were determined to move her and her boys to South Florida, where the rest of the Adelson family lived. But Dan refused this and successfully fought it in court. The judge ruled that Wendy could not move that far away from Dan, period.

• 21:19Annie Elise?

  And this really pissed off Wendy's mother, Donna, the matriarch of the family. And when I say that, Donna really had taken on this role of the cliche, overbearing matriarch who called the shots for all of her adult children, not just Wendy. In fact, it's been speculated that the reason her oldest son, Robert, is estranged from the family is because his mom, Donna, didn't approve of his wife. Just truly overbearing, wants to have a hand in everything that her kids are doing, even though they're adults. Then when they do something that she doesn't agree with, that doesn't align with what she wants, she banishes them, pushes them away, or gets really angry. And that's what was happening now. Dan won in court, Wendy wasn't able to move back home to be closer to her family with

• 22:03Annie Elise?

  her kids, so now Donna was coming off the rails. Then, in a very shocking twist, another one. Police made another arrest. The third arrest was the arrest of a woman. A woman who investigators said had ties to both the Adelson family and ties to the shooters. This woman was Katherine Manbagua, who was 31 at the time and also goes by Katie. In documents released by the police, detectives alleged that Katie had a romantic relationship with Charlie Adelson, Wendy's brother. And not only that, but she actually lived with Siegfriedo and had two children with him. Today's episode is sponsored by Zenni. Okay, I have a question for you guys. When is the last time that you actually bought something for yourself?

• 22:48Annie Elise?

  Especially right now, this time of year, when you are shopping for everybody else, you're checking off your list. When is the last time you got something for you? Because I think it's so easy to just completely forget about ourselves, especially this time of year. But that's why I love the idea of treating yourself to a new pair of glasses from Zenni. They have so many cute styles, from prescription glasses to sunglasses. They have frames, starting at just under $30. They also have this amazing tool on their site where you can do a virtual try-on feature, and it lets you see how the different frames look on you before you order, which I feel like that is key because, for me, like, I'm a cat eye kind of lens person, or a frame person, but definitely not like... Around frame kind of person and I was quickly humbled with the virtual try on

• 23:33Annie Elise?

  tool. When I tell you I was trying all of these different frames on Zenni because I was like, I need new blue lights, I need new prescriptions. And it saved me so much hassle not ordering the ones that would look horrific on me. And so I am thankful for that. Plus, they have over 150,000 five star reviews and they accept FSA and HSA cards, which is perfect if you have funds to use before the end of the year. So give the gift of Zenni this holiday season. Glasses, sunglasses, whatever you need. Go to Zenni.com/podcast and use code PODCAST15 for 15% off plus free shipping on all US orders over $65. But styles sell out, so don't wait. That's Z E N N I dot com slash podcast promo code

• 24:17Annie Elise?

  PODCAST15. Zenni.com slash podcast code PODCAST15. According to court documents, in the weeks leading up to Dan's murder and for a long time after, there were hundreds of calls between Charlie and Katie and between Katie and Siegfriedo. And some of them were literally right after the other, like some sort of criminal phone tree. You call one person, they call the next, so you go all the way ping ponging down the line. However, with all of this, Charlie was not charged. As the three of their trials approached, Luis accepted a plea deal from prosecutors where he actually ended up flipping on Katie and Siegfriedo. And this was in a wild confession that was actually videotaped.

• 27:36Annie Elise?

  So at this point, Luis was really spilling the beans on everybody involved, including the Adelsons, who up until this point had denied any involvement of any kind. Yet, he claimed that Katie, who was in a relationship with Wendy's brother Charlie, put the two of them up to this murder-for-hire plot. Part of Luis's confession was accepting a guilty plea to second-degree murder, and he was sentenced to a seven-year prison term in exchange for his cooperation with prosecutors. Segredo's attorney spoke out in an interview and said, "These are dentists. They aren't the Sopranos, okay? The prosecution admittedly didn't have enough evidence, so it went out and bought some by giving away the farm to a murderer.

• 28:16Annie Elise?

  Seven years is just offensive. That's not a search for truth. That's a deal with the devil." So who was really telling the truth here? Katie and Segredo went to trial together, where they both adamantly said that Luis was lying. He was full of shit, and there was absolutely no plot whatsoever. Katie even took the stand, which was an interesting move since the prosecutors apparently had a lot of evidence against her. They had proof that her bank account received a little over $50,000. She had checks from the Adelson Institute, the dental practice, and these checks were signed by Donna, the matriarch of the Adelson family. These checks were then deposited into Katie's bank account when she was not an employee there or did not work for them. There was also a direct phone record trail,

• 29:00Annie Elise?

  where she would talk to Charlie, then call Segredo, and vice versa, making it blatantly obvious that she was this middleman between the whole thing. Also, in a weird detail, the prosecution also believed that Charlie had paid for her to get a breast augmentation and that her new Lexus was previously registered to Harvey Adelson, Wendy and Charlie's dad. Everything just very oddly interconnected and certainly looks like damning evidence, right? And the jury agreed. At least in the case of Segredo. He was found guilty and he was sentenced to life in prison. However, Katie's case went a little differently. Her defense said that her money came from her work in nightclubs and also working bottle service in Miami, and also from Segredo, who was the father of her two children.

• 29:44Annie Elise?

  Additionally, her defense denied that the recordings implicated Katie whatsoever. Instead, they believed it showed that she was coerced into helping her boyfriend at the time, her boyfriend Charlie. Katie's trial ended in a hung jury mistrial, but she was again tried in 2022, where she was ultimately convicted for her role in the murder plot and sentenced to life in prison. Now, one of the craziest parts of Katie and Segfredo's trial actually had less to do with them and more to do with Charlie. See, the FBI had wiretapped everybody's phones, and those recordings were played in court, of course, obviously, that's what happens, right? And in one of the most shocking calls, someone from the dental office had contacted Charlie

• 30:26Annie Elise?

  to tell him that the police wanted information about Katie, and Charlie's response did not exactly make him look innocent.

• 30:34Speaker 13

  Hey, what's going on? I'm here asking for records for Katie. Um, for what? Um, that she, that she worked here? I would, um, I would, uh... They asked, did she work there? I was like, yeah, she worked there, but I don't know what you want. Erica. So they're like, well, send there, Erica. Erica. Yeah. Do me a favor. I'm not there right now. Uh-huh. And I'm in surgery. Uh-huh. But it's not my office. It's my dad's office. Uh-huh. So I can't give anything out. Right. So you, I mean, you're, I don't have access to it. I don't know where anything is. I would not speak to anybody. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, listen, you can talk to whoever you want. I shouldn't say I don't talk to anybody.

• 31:19Speaker 13

  I mean, it's not my office. The office was sold back to my dad, actually, a long time ago. So tell them that you'll, so it's actually you're talking to the wrong Dr. Adelson. I mean, it's not your office. You can't give out records. Yeah, they said within 20 days of court, order statues, provided both cars, uh, with reason that she... Are they, are they, are they there now, or do they just stand there? They're there, but you know, I'm in the back, I'm in the back. They're just waiting for me to come back. Oh, and they want records? Yeah. Do me a favor. I'm gonna call you from a landline on your cell phone, okay? Okay.

• 31:52Annie Elise?

  Now, look, Charlie, my guy, if you don't have anything to hide, then why are you making this stuff up, you know, and saying like, oh, it's the wrong Dr. Adelson? Or, you know, why are you saying, I'm gonna call you from a landline? Just, it kind of looks like you're hiding something. If you are not hiding anything, you sure are doing a great job of making yourself look suspicious as heck. It's like a walking red flag. And sure enough, the police agreed with this. So Charlie was finally arrested for Dan's murder in 2022.

• 32:22Speaker 14

  Eight years later, and more arrests in the murder of Florida State University Professor Dan Markel. In jail tonight, his former brother-in-law, now facing first-degree murder charges in his death. Dan Markel was killed in the driveway of his home.

• 32:36Speaker 15

  A grand jury has now indicted Charlie Adelson in Markel's death, the uncle of Dan Markel's two children.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  Adelson was arrested at his home in Broward County at the center of this investigation and charges, and now enhanced 2016 FBI recording.

• 32:54Speaker 12

  I don't know. If a badge comes up to you, tell them how they say, officer. Listen, if they want to charge you to something, charge me. If not, I don't talk to the cops. Sorry.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  This FBI footage, recorded in 2016, shows Charlie Adelson and Catherine McManawha having a conversation about the investigation into the murder of Florida State University Professor Dan Markel in 2014. It has now been enhanced to give investigators a look into a conversation that took place between the two in South Florida. That same video presented to a grand jury.

• 33:40Speaker 04

  You can see the two talking about investigators, talking to family members, calling the investigation a scare tactic in the worldwide news coverage the case has had since 2014. Assistant State Attorney Georgia Kappelman said the enhanced evidence is a big piece of what they needed to help their case.

• 33:56Speaker 16

  Well, the piece of evidence was something that I did think was important, and I've always felt like if we could just get that clarified, that would make a big difference potentially in the case. So I was really happy to have that piece of evidence to present to the grand jury.

• 34:09Annie Elise?

  So in Charlie's trial, the prosecution played even more of those wiretap calls that I talked about earlier, the ones from Charlie's phone. And in one of them, an FBI agent is actually posing as Luis's friend. And it's a little confusing because Luis actually goes by Tato and Siegfriedo goes by Tuto. But basically, the agent tells Charlie that he needs to take care of Luis, just like he took care of Siegfriedo and Katie. And you would think that if Charlie truly was innocent, his response to that would probably be something along the lines of, you know, what the hell are you even talking about? What does that mean? Are you speaking in code? What are you talking about? I had nothing to do with it. But that isn't exactly how all of this went down.

• 34:49Speaker 17

  All right, what's going on? Well, what's going on is my brother Tato, okay, my brother Tato has not been taken care of. His family's not been taken care of. I talked to a dentist. Why are you calling me? Who are you? I gave the number to a lady. I don't know Tato. You don't know Tato? No. I'm sure you know Katie and Tuto. They've been taken care of since the family problem been taken care of up north. I don't know who they are. You don't? Well, this isn't going away, my friend. Because let me tell you something.

• 35:32Speaker 17

  I was at Brown with Tato, and he told me the whole story. He told me nobody was taking care of him. Nobody was taking care of his family. The family was taking care of Katie and Tuto, and nothing's been taken care of with Tato. So we know. We know what's going on. And Tato needs to be taken care of. Do the right thing. The lady already has the paperwork. She knows what I'm talking about. We know Katie. We know Tuto. We know they've been taken care of.

• 36:09Speaker 17

  Alright, let me, let me look at anything. No more, no more [bleep] around, man, no more [bleep] around. This ain't going away, we need, Tato need, you guys need to do the right thing for Tato.

• 36:21Speaker 17

  That's my brother, man. That's my brother, and he needs to be taken care of, his family needs to be taken care of, just like Katie and Tuto been taken care of.

• 36:30Speaker 17

  Alright, I don't, I've never met, met these people, but let me call you back, okay? That's bull [bleep], man, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You know this lady, I don't know your relationship with lady, but we know what the [bleep] is going on.

• 36:45Speaker 17

  This ain't going away. Take care, take care of Tato, just like you take care of Katie and Tuto, man.

• 36:51Speaker 17

  Let me call you back.

• 36:53Annie Elise?

  Charlie testified in his trial where he tried to explain that the prosecution had all of this entirely wrong. Instead, he said that Katie was aware of the situation that Wendy was going through, and that she knew at one point that the Adelson family had actually offered Dan $1 million in exchange to allow Wendy to move with the boys to South Florida. An offer in which Dan apparently refused, because that just shows what kind of man Dan was. There wasn't a price tag on having limited access to his children. No price would be high enough because all he wanted was to be near his children. He was a good father who loved his kids. So according to Charlie and his defense team, Charlie said that because Katie heard this, she told Siegfriedo, the father of her kids, who also happened to have ties to the Latin Kings.

• 37:38Annie Elise?

  And according to Charlie, Siegfriedo and Katie then came up with a plan to blackmail Charlie, basically saying that they murdered Dan so that they could blackmail Charlie, since it would look like he was a part of it in the first place. Again, this all according to Charlie and his defense team during his trial. Now, this was a pretty crazy defense, I have to say. But in fairness, I guess they had to at least give it a shot, since their case was absolutely in the toilet at this point, and had already been completely blown apart by the prosecution. But the prosecution wasn't buying any of this, not at all.

• 38:11Speaker 18

  And for this custody dispute, the judge ended up ruling in Dan Markel's favor. So Wendy Adelson was not permitted to move to Miami with the children. Unless, of course, something happened to Dan Markel.

• 38:30Speaker 18

  A review of Wendy Adelson's emails revealed that her mother, Donna Adelson, hated Dan Markel and was desperate to find a way for Wendy and her children, who were Donna Adelson's grandchildren, to be able to move to Miami. Donna Adelson suggests, in these emails that y'all will hear about, several ways that Wendy Adelson could threaten or bully Dan Markel into submission, into getting what she wanted him to do.

• 39:06Speaker 18

  Donna Adelson even suggested offering Dan Markel a $1 million bribe to allow the relocation. And even said that this defendant, Charlie Adelson, would pay a third of that $1 million bribe to Dan Markel to make that happen. The evidence in this case will show that Donna Adelson's closest confidant was her son, the defendant. She and the defendant talked multiple times a day, every day. He was the person with whom she would constantly vent and complain to about Wendy's situation. The defendant was also the person that Donna Adelson relied on

• 39:50Speaker 18

  to solve her problems. And this was a big, big problem for Donna Adelson. And she made it the defendant's problem to solve.

• 40:01Annie Elise?

  And some of the most damning information, by far, to convict Charlie, was intertwined with Donna's actions as well. As part of an FBI sting that was referred to as "The Bump", an undercover officer ran into Donna while she was walking to pick up the boys from school. He gave her a piece of paper that was an article about Dan Markel's death. And then he basically threatened her, basically saying, "We know what you did, and now you need to help me out and give me some money." Donna was visibly shaken after this. And the FBI wiretapped calls that she made immediately after that, directly to Charlie, showed that she was obviously worried and says, "No, it probably has to do with both of us."

• 40:41Speaker 16

  Why did you select Donna Adelson to be the recipient of this bump?

• 40:47Speaker 19

  Because we noticed the pattern of calls leading up to the murder and around the time of the murder. The calls were always Donna Adelson to Charlie Adelson to Katherine McManwa to Segredo Garcia and then back. It was always going back and forth, pretty much in that order. So we wanted to start it on one end and see what would happen, see if it would, if it would trample that same, that same line of person, people.

• 41:15Annie Elise?

  Additionally, a lot of communication between Donna to Wendy and Charlie was introduced during this, where she went absolutely nuts during Wendy's custody battle. She called Dan a fucker, pressured Wendy to threaten Dan to convert the boys to Catholicism, knowing that it would make Dan furious because of how religious he was and how instilled in the Jewish faith he was. And she said over and over how much Dan could not win their custody battle. And almost seemed like she was getting angry with Wendy with how the judge was ruling in the custody case, something that Wendy clearly had absolutely no control over. I mean, the emails are wild and are almost like Donna was staying up all night fixating on this and would just send these random bizarre and obsessive rants that literally

• 41:58Annie Elise?

  looked like the ramblings of a complete psychopath, in my opinion. And honestly, when I was watching some of this trial, I couldn't even believe that this was real.

• 42:08Speaker 16

  Did your mom call Dan any disparaging names around this timeframe?

• 42:12Speaker 20

  Well, I just read them in the emails, but I don't remember them independently.

• 42:17Speaker 16

  Okay. Did she call him an asshole?

• 42:20Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 42:21Speaker 16

  A narcissist?

• 42:22Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 42:23Speaker 16

  A bully?

• 42:24Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 42:25Speaker 16

  Religious zealot?

• 42:26Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 42:27Speaker 16

  Were you involved in any way in the plot to kill your ex-husband?

• 42:30Speaker 20

  Absolutely not.

• 42:31Speaker 16

  Did you know it was gonna happen, but maybe not know the details?

• 42:35Speaker 20

  I knew nothing.

• 42:36Speaker 16

  Is that why you went to the crime scene on the day of the homicide?

• 42:39Speaker 20

  I did not go to the crime scene on the day of the homicide.

• 42:42Speaker 16

  Do you know who all was involved in the murder?

• 42:44Speaker 20

  Well, I learned today, but at the time, no.

• 42:48Speaker 16

  Okay. Have you ever privately confronted your brother about his role or possible role in the murder?

• 42:57Speaker 20

  My attorney has advised me not to have conversations with anyone in my family about the case.

• 43:07Speaker 16

  But you had a close relationship with your brother at the time of the murder, right?

• 43:12Speaker 20

  I absolutely had a close relationship with my brother.

• 43:14Speaker 16

  And you're... How soon after the murder did your lawyer advise you not to talk to your family about it?

• 43:21Speaker 20

  In 2016.

• 43:23Speaker 16

  Okay, so what about the two years in between? Did you talk to him about it then?

• 43:27Speaker 20

  I mean, I talked to him about the fact that a murder occurred, but I guess I don't understand the question.

• 43:34Speaker 16

  But you never talked to him about the suspicions you raised in the law enforcement interview that your brother might have done it?

• 43:41Speaker 20

  No, I did not.

• 43:48Speaker 16

  You suspected your brother could have been a part of this, right?

• 43:51Speaker 20

  I suspected lots of people could have been a part of it.

• 43:53Speaker 16

  But he was one of the people, right?

• 43:57Speaker 20

  While I was talking with law enforcement for six hours terrified out of my mind, I offered them every possible idea I could come up with.

• 44:04Speaker 16

  Right, and one of the possible ideas was that your brother could have murdered your child's father.

• 44:12Speaker 20

  I didn't really believe that was possible.

• 44:21Speaker 16

  Was part of the plot for you to be able to have plausible deniability about this?

• 44:26Speaker 20

  Absolutely not.

• 44:27Annie Elise?

  And Charlie's time on the witness stand was just as crazy. At one point, he was literally giggling about the names that Donna had called Dan. It was super unhinged.

• 44:38Speaker 16

  You say, "If they had any evidence, we'd have already gone to the airport." And I know you already testified about this, but... But does an innocent person say, "If they had any evidence"?

• 44:49Speaker 12

  Right, Katie's saying it's the police, and I'm saying that we're innocent. They're not going to have any evidence to show we were a part of something that we were a part of. If we had any part of this, we'd be going to the airport right now.

• 44:59Speaker 16

  Isn't it true, Doctor, that they're not going to have any evidence because you were careful?

• 45:04Speaker 12

  No, because we weren't a part of this.

• 45:05Speaker 16

  You were smart.

• 45:06Speaker 12

  No, we weren't a part of this.

• 45:08Speaker 16

  You walled yourself off from the killers.

• 45:11Speaker 12

  I was sure they're not going to have evidence to show I did something I didn't do. So we're not running to the airport.

• 45:15Speaker 16

  And you're untouchable, right?

• 45:17Speaker 12

  No, we didn't do a murder. I wasn't part of a murder. There's no reason to run to the airport.

• 45:22Speaker 16

  And then on 2/19/14, Donna texts you again to tread lightly with Wendy and refers to Dan Markel as an asshole and a fucker, right?

• 45:31Speaker 12

  Sorry.

• 45:33Speaker 12

  He made me laugh. So.

• 45:35Speaker 16

  That's what I'm here for. Is that what happened? That text?

• 45:40Speaker 12

  Did my mom use a foul word to describe him?

• 45:43Speaker 16

  Yes, sir, asshole and fucker, to be specific.

• 45:46Speaker 12

  Sorry. Um, she, she used a curse word, correct?

• 45:51Annie Elise?

  So after that stellar, wink, wink, not so stellar performance on the stand, it really was no surprise when Charlie was convicted of murder, conspiracy and solicitation. Well, I should say it was no surprise to everyone except Charlie, who truly did look super shocked as the verdict was read, which I don't understand how he was shocked. I mean, I feel like anybody could spot this verdict from a mile away, but there he stood looking like he saw a ghost and couldn't believe what was happening.

• 46:19Speaker 21

  Verdict. Count one, we, the jury, find as follows as to count one of the indictment, first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of first degree murder. Count two, we, the jury, find as follows as to count two of the indictment, conspiracy to commit first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of conspiracy to commit first degree murder. Count three, we, the jury, find as follows as to count three of the indictment, solicitation to commit first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of solicitation to commit first degree murder. So say we all this sixth day of November, 2023.

• 46:59Annie Elise?

  Now, like I said, a lot of the strongest evidence against Charlie also implicated Donna. So after his conviction, the investigators were keeping a really close eye on Donna. And sure enough, it wasn't long before she slipped up. Today's episode is sponsored by Rula Health. You know that feeling when you think that therapy could really help you, but then when you actually start looking into it, you realize how expensive it is without insurance? If you're anything like me, that whole process can make you just put therapy off completely. Well, that's where Rula comes in because Rula makes it easier to find quality mental health care that is actually covered by your insurance. Get this, they partner with over 120 insurance plans and the average copay is just $50. $15 a session.

• 47:45Annie Elise?

  Their network also has over 21,000 therapists and psychiatrists. And Rula helps you find the right provider for whatever your needs are, and some even have appointments as soon as tomorrow. For me, I have been like looking for good therapists for years and years and years for like my particular niche of what I feel like I could use support with. And it always has been so overwhelming for me. But when I went on Rula, I just was able to plug in everything I needed and bam, there were like results. It showed me, you know, how quickly the appointments were available. And it just like made it so simple, which I'm all about simplifying my life. Okay. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that is actually covered by insurance. So visit rula.com/cerealistically to get started.

• 48:30Annie Elise?

  That's R U L A dot com slash serialistically. You deserve mental health care that works with you and not against your budget. On a recorded jail call with Charlie, she ended up letting it slip that she and Harvey were trying to flee to a non-extradition country. Which if you're not familiar with that term, non-extradition, it basically means a country that does not have an agreement with the US to send people back if they are wanted for a crime. So a lot of times, this is when like Interpol will get involved. Of course, the goal is to try to arrest them or catch them before they flee the country. But if you go to a non-extradition country, even if say you're wanted for murder or conspiracy, depending on the location and the country, you could go under the radar there.

• 49:15Annie Elise?

  They can't bring you back. So that's what she was looking for and that's where she was planning to flee. Which again, if you have nothing to hide, why are you trying to flee to a non-extradition country? You wouldn't, right? So basically Donna and Harvey were kind of just thinking like, you know, if we can get to one of these countries, we are golden. Even if the United States does press charges against us, like we'll be in the clear, we are golden. Which I will say, it may have actually worked if Donna hadn't spoken about it and blabbed about it on this recorded jailhouse phone call. Criminal 101. Do not say anything that would implicate you on a recorded jailhouse phone line.

• 49:54Speaker 22

  Do it together. Leave a note of when to come and get it. And we'll do it together. We've been looking it up over and over. Things change. If there is extradition from Vietnam, because we've looked at all the places. I mean, I could go to Korea and China, but there's no extradition. But we're looking for places where there's no extradition. To have all this information. I have the cemetery property. I want her to see all that. I want her to have all these papers and the wills. I want her to see all this.

• 50:24Annie Elise?

  You know, we love when criminals are truly this stupid. Because here's the thing. Why on earth would Donna think that she could talk to Charlie, her son, on a recorded jail call? And tell him that she is getting her affairs in order, thinking of suicide or possibly going to a non-extradition country? This after Charlie just went through a trial where Donna was implicated in many ways. And remember, Charlie was convicted on how strong the evidence was. So then she just thinks that she isn't being monitored in general or ignores the fact of these jail calls being recorded and monitored. Despite the fact that in the beginning of these jail calls, it says verbatim that all conversations are recorded

• 51:09Annie Elise?

  and reviewed by jail staff. It is just beyond me. Like, could you get any more stupid? Now, hearing Donna's plans to flee must have been enough for the police to actually worry. Because they finally arrested her in November of 2023. And where do you think the cops found her? They found her right there at the airport about to board a one-way ticket flight to Vietnam, a non-extradition country. Pretty wild, right?

• 52:01Speaker 03

  I have to go with.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:13Speaker 23

  She's just been sentenced eight years old. He can't.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't. Please, can I go? No, you can't do it there. Oh, don't you just please.

• 52:21Speaker 23

  Please.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 52:22Speaker 23

  Someone's got to help him get home. It's terrible. You can't do this.

• 52:31Speaker 24

  So, can you do?

• 52:34Speaker 03

  Please. Give him a can of some shot of it. Say it's you. You guys. Do you have anything you want to give him?

• 52:42Speaker 23

  No, uh, no.

• 52:45Speaker 23

  No.

• 52:46Speaker 24

  Do you have anything of value in you?

• 52:49Speaker 23

  No, I.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  Must you have a necklace on?

• 52:50Speaker 24

  One of them.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  You can take it off.

• 52:52Speaker 24

  Yeah, take it off. A lady, the rings, take them with you.

• 52:58Speaker 23

  Um.

• 52:59Speaker 24

  You give it to your husband. He goes, once you arrive at Conde, they're gonna make you remove all that.

• 53:05Annie Elise?

  Now, hearing Donna pleading with the police saying, you know, you can't do this, you can't do this. It really just makes my head explode a little bit because guess what, Donna? You're the one who did this. You can't, you know, put out hits on innocent people just because you don't like them, just because you're greedy, just because you're upset over a custody agreement. That's something that you can't do. Don't say that the cops can't do this and arrest you and you're acting like this frail older woman. No, you are calculated, you are cold, you quite literally tried to flee the country. They can certainly do this. Now, you're unfortunately stuck in a situation where you're gonna face the consequences for your own deranged actions.

• 53:46Annie Elise?

  Now, I also have to say with this, in addition to the body cam footage, which I had posted back when this all went down and it went absolutely viral, but in addition to, and you, it's because you have to see her mannerisms, how she's acting, which if you're listening to the audio version of this, either go check out the video version of this on YouTube afterward, or you can go back onto my Instagram, the handle is underscore Annie Elise, and it's in there in the short form, you know, real area. But what's so. Interesting is like you see the body cam footage where she's acting, you know, like this meek, older woman, can't believe this is happening. But then there was also footage that was released of when Donna was in the back of the cop car. And in this footage, I just, I, I was blown away by it and I feel like I have to talk about it because

• 54:29Annie Elise?

  the way that she is badgering the cops and bossing them all around, to me, it was super clear, super indicative that she was the family matriarch, that she's used to bossing people around, that she's used to just like, you know, what's the expression, taking the bull by the horns and just like running the show. She called all the shots and she was still trying to call the shots while she was in freaking handcuffs in the back of a cop car after just being caught trying to flee the country. I mean, come on.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Let's just get some water.

• 55:35Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 55:38Speaker 03

  She know, she know how, how long we're gonna sit here, uh, how long we're going to sit here.

• 55:49Annie Elise?

  After Donna was arrested, she was set to go to trial in September of 2024. Now, the first day rolled around and everybody was ready. The jury was summoned, everybody was prepared, but then boom. Donna's attorney, Daniel, quit before the opening statements could even start. Now, the issue was that Daniel was also Charlie's lawyer during his trial. Now, that is a massive conflict of interest because think about it, there's no way that Daniel would be able to cross-examine Charlie without somehow stumbling over all sorts of issues with attorney-client privilege. Now, Donna didn't at first think that that would ever be an issue. Apparently, she thought that Charlie would waive his right to attorney-client confidentiality, all for her.

• 56:31Annie Elise?

  But he didn't. Instead, he basically said like, nope, mom, you're out of luck. I'm not waiving my right to that. So try again later, find a different lawyer. So the judge considered going forward with the trial anyway, because as I said, everybody was prepared, the jury was seated, everything was good to go. But in the end, it was just way too risky because, truthfully, this is exactly the kind of thing that could get a case overturned later. It gives you all sorts of grounds for appeal. I'm not a lawyer, go ask some other lawyer how that all works, but if attorney-client privilege is breached, or if you can't cross-examine them properly because of attorney-client privilege, then both of those parties, in my opinion, would have grounds for appeal because it wouldn't

• 57:13Annie Elise?

  have been a strong and thorough enough case and defense. Again, that's just my take on everything. So because of that, instead, the entire trial ended up getting pushed back an entire year. Then, in February of 2025, a bunch of pre-trial hearings began. And in one of these pre-trial hearings, Donna herself even took the stand, not to talk about the case, not to say how sorry she was, not to show any sort of remorse, none of that, but instead, to complain about how badly the jail sucks. Which, hello, that is the purpose of jail. It's supposed to be a punishment. It is not supposed to be cushy. Although, I will say, the cell that Brian Koberger is in right now is like, bigger than most

• 57:55Annie Elise?

  dorm rooms, and I'm trying to wrap my head around that, but I believe it's a medical facility. That's a rant for a different day. But anyway, she's taking the stand to complain how much jail sucks.

• 58:06Speaker 25

  One of the things that's been a bit for you is lack of sleep. So we're gonna just kind of go through this quickly for the court, but you testified previously that the nighttime medications come between 11:30 PM and 1:30 or 2 AM. Is that correct?

• 58:21Speaker 23

  Yes.

• 58:21Speaker 25

  Okay. And part of the nighttime medications that you get, is there something in there to assist you to go to sleep?

• 58:27Speaker 23

  Yes.

• 58:27Speaker 25

  Okay. And then you get the medication, about how long after that is it before you can go to sleep?

• 58:34Speaker 23

  From the time I get it, probably a half hour.

• 58:38Speaker 25

  Okay, all right. And what time are you woken up for breakfast?

• 58:40Speaker 23

  Between 3:00 and 3:30. Yes, last night was 3:10. Just within that half hour range is when it comes.

• 58:49Speaker 25

  Okay. And once you're woken up for breakfast, are you capable of going back to sleep?

• 58:53Speaker 23

  No.

• 58:53Speaker 25

  Have you tried to go back to sleep?

• 58:55Speaker 23

  Oh my God, yes, I try.

• 58:56Speaker 25

  So that period of that time that you get, from the time you fall asleep after your night meds, until you're woken up for breakfast, that's the only sleep that you're getting while you're incarcerated?

• 59:04Speaker 23

  That's it.

• 59:04Speaker 25

  How has that affected you?

• 59:05Speaker 23

  So...

• 59:09Speaker 23

  Listen, I know older people don't need as much sleep as younger people, but I need more than two hours a night. I need more than, a good night is three, one night I had three and a half hours. It's not enough sleep to stay, to stay focused. I mean, I feel like I'm foggy sometimes because I just, sleeping, I'm tired. And I, and I can't go to sleep. They got people screaming and yelling. They have, they bang on the doors, they shake the doors. It sounds like a drum in there. It's horrible. So, I can't sleep with, with all that noise going on. I've gained more than a third of my body weight here. The diet is all carbs, no protein.

• 59:52Speaker 23

  I don't have any antibiotic cream and I don't have a Band-Aid.

• 59:55Annie Elise?

  Now, look, you guys are my BFFs on here. And you know I keep it real. Sometimes I say things that not everybody agrees on, which is totally fine. And whatever, we're not always going to agree. So, don't come for me if you disagree with me on this. But I have absolutely zero sympathy for her here. This is not the Four Seasons. This is not a resort. This is not sandals in Jamaica. This is jail pending prison. What do you expect in that kind of scenario? You, Donna, allegedly had an innocent person killed. Already, many people involved have been convicted for that. And now, you know, it's your turn to basically face the stand for that. But what did you think was going to happen here? I, for one, am not going to be sending you any sort of sympathy card

• 1:00:39Annie Elise?

  or any sort of sympathy emotions, all because you have shitty food and not enough Band-Aids. Like, get a grip. Get a grip. Now, what's interesting is at this same hearing, the defense also tried to get that phone call from Donna to Charlie completely thrown out of evidence. Because, get this, and it's kind of like this weird loophole where I can see where the defense was trying to argue this. But it turns out that when Donna was on the phone with Charlie and when she was talking about all of those things about, you know, we're finding a non-extradition country that we're gonna flee to, Charlie was not even on the phone call anymore. Apparently, the call had dropped. Now, this must have been unbeknownst to her because Donna just kept rattling off her mouth, just, you know, saying all of these things.

• 1:01:22Annie Elise?

  But the argument was because he wasn't even on the phone anymore, the recording should have stopped.

• 1:01:27Speaker 10

  Now, you heard the recording to consent to this call, press one, or recording of this call, press one, correct?

• 1:01:34Speaker 23

  Correct.

• 1:01:37Speaker 10

  And you hung up the phone after those calls were over?

• 1:01:41Speaker 23

  Thought I did.

• 1:01:42Speaker 10

  On November 8th of 2023, the one at 6:30 in the morning,

• 1:01:49Speaker 10

  do you know at what point your son was no longer on the phone?

• 1:01:52Speaker 23

  I don't.

• 1:01:55Speaker 23

  I don't remember the call.

• 1:01:57Speaker 10

  In either one of those situations, or in both of those situations, did you believe the call was over?

• 1:02:04Speaker 23

  Yeah, the call was over. He was gone.

• 1:02:06Speaker 10

  And you went about your business?

• 1:02:08Speaker 23

  Yes.

• 1:02:09Speaker 10

  Now, with respect to the November 7th,

• 1:02:14Speaker 10

  2023 phone call when your attorney, her husband, and your husband were present at your apartment,

• 1:02:21Speaker 10

  did you agree for your attorney-client conversation to be recorded?

• 1:02:26Speaker 23

  No.

• 1:02:27Speaker 10

  Did you agree for your conversation with your husband to be recorded?

• 1:02:31Speaker 23

  No, of course not.

• 1:02:33Speaker 10

  Now, the following day,

• 1:02:36Speaker 10

  did you agree for your subsequent conversation with your husband to be recorded?

• 1:02:40Speaker 23

  No.

• 1:02:41Speaker 18

  So there in the room with you during this call was, you said, your,

• 1:02:49Speaker 18

  one of your attorneys, Susan Barotman, your husband, and then also Susan Barotman's husband?

• 1:02:54Speaker 23

  Yes, that's correct.

• 1:02:55Speaker 18

  Okay. And he was not your attorney?

• 1:02:57Speaker 23

  He was not.

• 1:02:58Speaker 18

  Your attorney?

• 1:02:59Speaker 23

  No, he's not a attorney.

• 1:03:00Speaker 18

  Okay. You were informed at the beginning of that call, this is the one on November 7th, that reported you while they were all in the room, you were informed that you were being recorded if you accepted that call?

• 1:03:12Speaker 23

  Yes.

• 1:03:13Speaker 18

  Okay. And that if you do not want to be on that recorded call, that you needed to hang up the call. Is that right?

• 1:03:21Speaker 23

  Are you saying, does the recording say?

• 1:03:24Speaker 18

  Right. If you do not want to accept that recorded call, you should hang up.

• 1:03:28Speaker 23

  If you do not, yeah, no, I accepted the recorded call.

• 1:03:31Speaker 18

  Okay. And you typically do hang up your calls, you said, after

• 1:03:37Speaker 23

  I mean, I think I do.

• 1:03:38Speaker 18

  Your call to Charlie Adelson when he was in custody. All right, but this particular call that day, evidently, you did not properly hang up, right?

• 1:03:47Speaker 23

  Evidently.

• 1:03:48Speaker 18

  Okay. And have you ever forgotten to press the button on a call before?

• 1:03:54Speaker 23

  I mean, it may have happened, I don't know.

• 1:03:57Speaker 18

  Sure. Has your phone pocket dialed people before?

• 1:04:00Speaker 23

  Has it what?

• 1:04:01Speaker 18

  Pocket dialed people before? When you've been out of custody?

• 1:04:06Speaker 23

  Pocket dialed?

• 1:04:07Speaker 18

  Right.

• 1:04:07Speaker 23

  I don't know what you mean.

• 1:04:09Speaker 18

  Like if your phone is in your pocket or in your purse and it accidentally calls someone you didn't mean it to?

• 1:04:15Speaker 23

  I mean, it could have happened, sure.

• 1:04:17Speaker 18

  Okay. And you also could have not pressed the button on your cellphone to end a call before, right?

• 1:04:26Speaker 23

  It's possible.

• 1:04:27Speaker 18

  Okay. It's not quite as, um, uh, big of a deal as it used to be when you would actually have to hang up the phone.

• 1:04:35Speaker 23

  Right.

• 1:04:35Speaker 18

  Right. Okay. That's all. Thank you.

• 1:04:39Speaker 10

  We redirect examination. Briefly, Your Honor.

• 1:04:43Speaker 10

  The consent that you gave for the call to be recorded, um, when did that end?

• 1:04:50Speaker 23

  It ended when Charlie hung up, or when it, whatever stopped the call. I mean, I don't know how it stopped, but it stopped. When the call was over with Charlie, it was over.

• 1:04:59Annie Elise?

  The defense argued that since Donna thought that she had hung up on the phone, anything that she said after that call dropped should not be admissible. Because again, at that point, she thought that it was a private conversation she was having. Which I'm sorry, I get the strategy here, I get the want for that to be true, but it's kind of a dumb argument, in my opinion. If you want to have a private conversation, make sure that you end your recorded call before you open your mouth and have that private conversation. And it kind of brings me back to, who is that guy? Robert Durst, right? From The Jinx, and he was involved in all these murders. And basically, like, there was this documentary that was made about him on HBO years ago.

• 1:05:41Annie Elise?

  And because of this documentary, he had still been mic'd up, or the room was mic'd up, and he didn't understand that he was still being recorded since people had left the room. Was he in the room or in the bathroom at that point? I can't remember. But my point is, he muttered under his breath, thinking he was in private, killed them all, of course. Which was like a huge smoking gun in all of this. So it's like, again, no sympathy for you, Donna. Like, if you wanted to have a private conversation where you're talking about fleeing the motherfucking country, then maybe do it on a non-recorded line, period. Hang up, walk away, go to another room, whisper it, write it on a paper and in silence, I don't know, but like criminal 101. And luckily, the judge agreed and he

• 1:06:25Annie Elise?

  allowed these calls into evidence. Then, a month later, in March, Donna's defense team wanted another piece of evidence thrown out. This time, they wanted to keep Wendy's novel out of the trial. And guys, when I heard this, I almost wanted to laugh out loud, because it's almost unbelievable. Basically, Wendy went out and she wrote this book, which she claims is fiction, okay? But actually, it's about a woman who is a lawyer, who has two kids, living in Tallahassee, and is unhappy in her marriage. Sounds like nonfiction to me, right? Kind of tracks with what's going on in your life, hits a little too close to home. I mean, think about this, too. Just picture this. The cover art for this book

• 1:07:10Annie Elise?

  is literally a photo of Wendy herself. This is like an autobiography. I mean, and she claimed it was fiction. And they were trying to get this out of the trial. But, once again, the judge agreed and allowed this book into evidence as really another way to show and to illustrate that Wendy was unhappy in her marriage to Dan, and giving the motive as to why they would want it to, you know, all collectively come together and have Dan killed. Then, just last month, the state finalized its witness list. And honestly, it kind of sounds like this massive holiday family dinner that you would never want to be invited to, just kind of also gives vibes of the Gossip Girl Thanksgiving, if you know, you know. But basically, get this, this is who is on the witness list. All three

• 1:07:54Annie Elise?

  of Donna's kids, Charlie, Wendy, and Rob, who is estranged, but they all three could be called to testify. Siegfriedo, Luis, Katie, I mean, it's like a full-on family reunion. Everyone who was in Now, just recently, Donna's team, once again, tried to block the Vietnam trip from being entered and being mentioned at the trial at all. Which with that whole situation, the state, basically, their argument is saying, "Oh, it's like a huge flashing neon sign, saying she is guilty. She was, she had consciousness of her guilt. She was trying to flee." Yet, the defense is claiming that she had no idea that there was even a warrant out

• 1:08:33Annie Elise?

  for her arrest. She was just traveling like a regular person. Which, maybe, I would be able to see that argument if the circumstances were a little bit different. But the fact that she had already said on a recorded line that they were finding a non-extradition country, why would you need that in the criteria for a vacation? Why would you book a vacation with a one-way ticket? Some people do, if you don't know how long you're going to be gone. So, like, that argument would, I guess, hold weight. But, I don't know, call me crazy, anytime I've ever gone on vacation, I don't have on my checklist, I, you know, I have a beach, cocktails, sunny, warm, definitely no hiking. I don't also have on there, like,

• 1:09:15Annie Elise?

  a non-extradition country. So, it's like, it's not adding up. And, once again, of course, the judge allowed it into evidence. So, I can't fault them for trying to make all of this stick, but I also can, because it's like, get a brain, and like, get a better argument. Honestly, Donna should hope that her lawyers are better during the trial than they are at these evidence hearings, because not a single point has been decided in their favor so far. Now, at one of the last pre-trial hearings that took place on August 8, 2025, a bunch of final pieces were put into place. The judge said that the details of Wendy's divorce proceedings could be shown to the jury. And he also ruled that the specific gang that Luis was a part of, the Latin Kings, can be mentioned in the trial as well. Now,

• 1:10:00Annie Elise?

  get this, we also have learned that Donna herself plans to testify. She is going to testify in her own defense. It's like, I know she's not representing herself, but it's kind of giving, like, Sarah Boone a little bit. Again, if you know, you know. And, given how badly that worked out for Katie and Charlie, I'm a little bit shocked by this, but, kind of also... So interested to see if Donna fares any better on the stand. I can't imagine that she will, but maybe she's going to pull the, you know, meek older woman sympathy card. Who knows? So the trial was officially set to start with the jury selection on August 19th. And after that, apparently it's going to actually be pretty short, about a week for the prosecution and a week for the defense. A lot shorter than I was expecting, given how complex this case is.

• 1:10:44Annie Elise?

  People online have been speculating that Wendy might be next, that Wendy might be implicated. And there has always been a suspicion around her that she knew more than she truly let on. She testified in Charlie's trial and also the trials of Catherine and the two hitmen. And there were times on the stand where, at least in my opinion, she was definitely dodging the truth and honestly, not really doing that bad of a job at it, especially because she is a lawyer herself after all.

• 1:11:09Speaker 26

  Georgia Kappelman, who's the lead prosecutor in this case, has a distinct animus for Wendy Adelson. She is not a fan of Wendy Adelson. And, uh, you know, whether you like somebody or not, should never play into a prosecution necessarily, but we all know, uh, that there's kind of a competitive edge and competitive factor. And, uh, you know, the belief is split 50/50 really about whether she will be prosecuted. But from a, um, you know, sort of a revenge standpoint, in order to pay for this crime, people want to see her tried for this case. And in my gut, uh, I feel like she will be the next, uh, domino to maybe, uh, not fall,

• 1:11:53Speaker 26

  but definitely be, uh, attacked by the prosecution. It's just going to be a matter of time. They've been very systematic here and going after, you know, the hitmen first, the middle woman in this case, and then ultimately Charlie Adelson and next of course, Dawn in the fall. But I think we do see Wendy, uh, Adelson, um, prosecuted here.

• 1:12:12Annie Elise?

  So as Donna heads to trial, which again, we will be covering that trial. We will probably cover it in a similar way to the Karen Reed trial. I don't know if we will live stream it on YouTube. Let me know if you want us to, but we will do weekly trial recaps, which again, if it's only two weeks, it'll be very concise and very short, but we will be covering that trial. But as Donna heads to trial, there's still a huge piece of the puzzle that's missing. And a lot of people are thinking that there will be something about this that comes down the pike, but that's whether the last two Adelsons, Wendy and her dad Harvey, will ever be charged in connection for Dan's murder. A lot of people suggest that Wendy had some involvement in either the planning, the knowledge of the cover up, things like

• 1:12:55Annie Elise?

  that. Also Harvey going alongside his wife to a non extradition country with a one-way ticket certainly indicates perhaps his knowledge, who knows of his involvement. So will those two ever catch charges? What do you think? I'm going to be watching this case very closely, not only the trial, but also the stuff with Wendy and Harvey. And obviously, I mean, the trial, I'm going to give you the scoop on that as we're going. So I will keep you guys up to date as everything unfolds as it happens. And I also, maybe what we'll do similar to Karen Reed is have our correspondent give those weekly updates. Or, yeah, I don't think we need to do more than once a week. You guys tell me, but maybe it's just like a weekly wrap up from the defense and the prosecution. I don't know. We'll figure that out. But let me know in the comments what

• 1:13:40Annie Elise?

  you would prefer and how you want to follow this and I'll give you that update. Thank you guys so much for joining me for another episode of Serialistically. If you haven't already, take a quick second, whatever podcast app you're listening on, just make sure you're following the podcast that you either mark it as following, it's totally free, or like, I don't know if you, it's like market as a favorite, favorite, or whatever the option is, so that it's in your podcast app so that you don't miss anytime we release a new episode, but also when we release these bonus episodes that are outside our normal release cadence, whether it's a trial update, or a bonus episode, or something like that. So just make sure you're following the podcast. And for all of you guys on YouTube, please take a quick moment, like, subscribe, share this video, and I will be back with you on Thursday with

• 1:14:25Annie Elise?

  headline highlights, where I will be breaking down everything going on this week in the true crime world. And I think I'm going to actually have Amy join me again this week because you love, all loved hearing from her so much last week. So stay tuned for that. And I will talk with you soon. Until then, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any family collusion weirdoness. And like I will say, just get a divorce, which I get it, they were, and it was a custody battle, but you get the sentiment, right? You get it. All right, guys. Thanks so much. Bye.

• 1:15:10Speaker 27

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