In ‘The Good Place’ with D’Arcy Carden

From “The Good Place” and “Barry” to “A League of Their Own” and “The Five-Star Weekend,” D’Arcy Carden has become one of the most recognizable and beloved performers on television. We sit to discuss her Bay Area upbringing (6:33), moving to New York to pursue acting (16:05), and finding her community in long-form improv at UCB (21:08). Then, she reflects on the day jobs that kept her afloat—including babysitting Bill Hader’s kids (24:53), watching friends around her begin to break through (29:54), and what kept her from submitting an application for SNL (35:08). On the back-half, Carden revisits “The Good Place” audition that changed her life (42:49), the pressure she felt on set (51:34), and an enduring piece of advice from her co-star Ted Danson (56:48). To close, we talk about the joy and heartbreak of “A League of Their Own” (58:37), the future of Hollywood (1:01:50), and why, after reaching her wildest dreams, she hopes to keep acting forever (1:10:08). Subscribe to our ⁠YouTube channel⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@talkeasypod. As always, our email: [email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Immediately, you're like, and you haven't been to therapy in a while, have you? And the answer was yes. Because the last time I went to therapy, she was younger than me and I didn't like that.

• 0:09Sam Fragoso?

  A younger therapist is tough no matter of gender.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:12Sam Fragoso?

  I think that's not, I think that's off.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  I tried a few and I was like, this can't work.

• 0:15Sam Fragoso?

  That's why my therapist, octogenarian.

• 0:17Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 0:18Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  The only one with wisdom.

• 0:20Sam Fragoso?

  So you don't go to therapy anymore?

• 0:21Speaker 00

  No, but I would. I would and I should. There's something about the intake, the like first couple, I was about to say episodes, wow. The first couple appointments, the first couple classes, what are they called?

• 0:40Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to the show.

• 1:03Sam Fragoso?

  Today, actor and comedian Darcie Carden. You may have first discovered Carden on The Good Place, where she played the all-knowing artificial assistant Janet. The role became her breakthrough and eventually earned Carden her first Emmy nomination. Darcie is also part of an accidental series we've been doing here on Talk Easy in 2026 called Good Things Come to Those Who Wait (but especially those who wait and are also good), Greta Lee, Chris Ryan, Lee Sung Jin, and now Carden herself. All these people didn't immediately find great success out of the gate, but their talents were apparent to the people around them, the people they worked with, and of course, to the people who loved them. But for whatever reason, it took a little bit for the powers that be to catch up with.

• 1:46Sam Fragoso?

  For Carden, that meant more than a decade of trying to make it as an actor and comedian in New York City. In the interim, though, she trained and performed at UCB, while also waiting tables, working at an interior design firm, and at one point babysitting for Bill Hader's kids. She even prepared an application for Saturday Night Live, and then, afraid of wanting it too much, never sent it. Eventually, though, came The Good Place, followed by Barry, where she played aspiring actor Natalie Greer, followed by a personal favorite of mine, A League of Their Own, where she reunited with longtime friend Abby Jacobson. In many ways, all of these projects has kind of led to this very exciting summer Carden has been having, starring in Peacock's The Five Star Weekend.

• 2:29Sam Fragoso?

  And so today, we talk about the long road to this very moment. Growing up in Northern California, finding improv in her people in New York, the self-doubt that sometimes got in her way, The Good Place audition that ultimately changed her life, and after spending so many years wondering whether success would arrive, and being, at least in part, convinced that it wouldn't, what it means now that it has. This is Darcie Carden. Hi, Darcie.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Hi.

• 2:56Sam Fragoso?

  Nice to have you here.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:57Sam Fragoso?

  This has been a long time coming.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 3:00Sam Fragoso?

  And I'm sorry it's taken so long. I feel like it's my fault.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  No, it's like, everything you want all at once is not good.

• 3:06Sam Fragoso?

  Exactly.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:07Sam Fragoso?

  Plus, you've done Conan so many times. I felt like you didn't need me.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  I'm such a fan. This is really an honor. You're really, really, really good at this.

• 3:17Sam Fragoso?

  Hi.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  Hi.

• 3:19Sam Fragoso?

  Pressure.

• 3:19Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 3:20Sam Fragoso?

  No, I'm not high.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:22Sam Fragoso?

  We recently had a guest.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  I know, Tim.

• 3:24Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, your co-star of Five Star Weekend.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:26Sam Fragoso?

  Didn't know till about 25 minutes in that he took-

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Had a little half an edible.

• 3:30Sam Fragoso?

  Half an edible, which he said was light work for him.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  There might be edibles involved in this, you know, pre-interview edibles.

• 3:37Sam Fragoso?

  Did you?

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Uh, half.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  It's like microdosing.

• 3:43Sam Fragoso?

  That was a layup day for him.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Well, I'm trying to think of how much he does stuff like that.

• 3:47Sam Fragoso?

  On set, does he do?

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Nothing on set.

• 3:49Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  But he's a fun, he is a fun time. I would say I love him.

• 3:54Sam Fragoso?

  I think you and him may have some of the highest internet approval.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  Me?

• 3:59Sam Fragoso?

  I think so. I don't know anyone who dislikes you, which is rare.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Let me think.

• 4:04Sam Fragoso?

  Co-stars, not counting.

• 4:08Sam Fragoso?

  So can we talk about Five Star Weekend?

• 4:09Speaker 00

  We should.

• 4:10Sam Fragoso?

  You have an unbelievable cast in this, in this thing.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Really?

• 4:14Sam Fragoso?

  And I heard you say in one interview that not since the character of Natalie and Barry did you feel as much of a kinship or a recognition in the character.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  This is bad, because Natalie on Barry and Brooke on Five Star are like parts of myself that I don't love.

• 4:34Sam Fragoso?

  100%.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:35Sam Fragoso?

  So why don't we start there?

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Okay. The premise of the show is Jennifer Garner's character Hollis is like a food blogger whose husband has just died.

• 4:44Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. Why are you smiling?

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Well, okay, so her husband has died and she's kind of like looking to take her life back and she realizes that she's kind of let her friends go and she decides to have this weekend at her Nantucket house with friends from each era of her life.

• 5:02Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  Okay. You have Chloe Sevigny is her childhood friend, Regina Hall is her college friend, I'm like her mom friend, and then she has a friend, a new friend.

• 5:13Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  So Brooke is like very self-conscious and very nervous and very, doesn't deserve to be here and she can't believe she's invited. And so like, I think, you know, the insecure side of moi can really relate to the Brooke side.

• 5:30Sam Fragoso?

  Do you feel that?

• 5:31Speaker 00

  Sometimes I do.

• 5:32Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  Right?

• 5:33Sam Fragoso?

  Is that because, you know, success happened for you later in your career?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  I think there was always, let's see, let's see, let's see. Yeah, that's part of it.

• 5:42Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Why did this stick with me so much? I had an acting teacher basically tell me that I was like a great teammate, but that like maybe not, she didn't say I wasn't a great actor or anything, but it was like, she was sort of like, you're a good cheerleader, like you're-

• 6:00Sam Fragoso?

  This is in college?

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:01Sam Fragoso?

  In Oregon?

• 6:01Speaker 00

  In Oregon.

• 6:02Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  And for some reason, that stuck with me in that she based, in my mind, I made it, I made it so that she said, you're a bad actor, but people like being around you.

• 6:11Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. And what she was saying was, you're a character actor?

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Maybe. Or even, maybe it was even a goddamn compliment. But I took it, I took, you know what I mean? So when it comes to feeling worthy or feeling like I deserve, or like I should be here with these other women that are like heroes of mine, I can really get in my head.

• 6:31Sam Fragoso?

  So that goes all the way back to college. But before that, you grew up in the East Bay, over in Danville, I think it was.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 6:40Sam Fragoso?

  Where I believe your first experience with acting was on your mother's lap, watching fantasy foreign plays in Walnut Creek. Is that right?

• 6:50Speaker 00

  God, you're good.

• 6:50Sam Fragoso?

  Now, can I ask you, when all the articles came out about nepo babies?

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:56Sam Fragoso?

  Did you feel hurt that you were excluded from those lists? Like, would your siblings text you being like, I can't believe they left you out of the nepo baby articles?

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Here's the thing, though, not to like break down nepotism, but nepotism isn't about like, like-

• 7:11Sam Fragoso?

  I think it's more connection than support.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Right. It's not just supportive parents.

• 7:15Sam Fragoso?

  And your parents were working in music magazines.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:17Sam Fragoso?

  I think there was one called BAM.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 7:19Sam Fragoso?

  It was through the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. The walls of my house were like littered with, it was only musicians, no family photos.

• 7:27Sam Fragoso?

  They had connections.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the thing that would be great for nepotism is if my dad worked in like, it worked in Hollywood.

• 7:36Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Or worked in the comedy scene. This was purely like a magazine. This was, this was a magazine about music.

• 7:43Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  And he had a couple magazines, a magazine about computers, that's not going to help me, a magazine about cars, not going to help me.

• 7:51Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, not at all.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  No. Okay. So yeah, music magazine. Okay, here's what it was. It was a great way to grow up. It was like, music's, music was our life. Music surrounded us in the house. My parents, my siblings and I were like obsessed with my parents' music, but they were, you know, they loved the music of their youth and then also whatever, you know, was current. We went to so many shows. It was just cool. It was just great. It was like, every, every, every band comes through the Bay Area, so we would, we would just go to shows all the time.

• 8:26Sam Fragoso?

  So it was entertainment adjacent?

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 8:28Sam Fragoso?

  Which I think is the nepo part of this.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 8:31Sam Fragoso?

  Now, I wonder, because you have two sisters, one brother, and there's a question here that I have from a friend of ours.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 8:41Sam Fragoso?

  Who's always wanted to ask you this.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 8:43Sam Fragoso?

  But she never has.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 8:45Sam Fragoso?

  And it's about your siblings and their comedic talents.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 8:49Sam Fragoso?

  From friend and co-star, Abby Jacobson.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Okay, great.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  Hi Abby.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  The question for Darcy is that she comes from a big family where she's got a couple siblings, a bunch of siblings, and they're all really close. And whenever I'm with them, I'm always like, God, this family is so close. And I don't know, they all just seem to have such like banter. And I have one sibling and I wonder what that would have been like. And you know, Darcy's like the only performer. And I wonder what that was like when she was growing up, if that was the case, or if, you know, her family, if like all of them sort of like did stuff together. I've never asked her that. Or if she was always sort of like the ham of

• 9:38Speaker 03

  the fam. If that makes sense.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  Ham fam. It does.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  Hi, Darcy. I love you.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  I love you. Okay. Oh, my God. No, we talked today and she did not tell me she did that. Isn't that funny?

• 9:54Sam Fragoso?

  She was probably protecting the integrity of the show.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Honestly, because I would have known, I would have known something. I would have prepared as an answer.

• 10:01Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you, Abby.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Thank you, Abby. We love you. Okay, so older sister Laney, younger brother Will, younger sister Miranda. I was in children's theater with my brother Will. I think we were in one play together, Little Abner. He played a scrag. I mean, you know, I was like in junior high and he was in elementary school. So I was probably like barely paying attention to him. But now like longing for the days. Imagine being on stage with my brother would be so fun. But probably at the time I was like, leave me alone. Little sister Miranda was doing theater growing up and I was teaching her. I'm nine years older than her. So I was like, teaching the theater camps and stuff like that. So got to perform with her a bit. We did one Christmas show.

• 10:44Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, so it was a performing family.

• 10:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, but even they are watching right now and they're gonna go, all right. Because nobody stayed.

• 10:53Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, so there was no sibling that quietly was like, I'm really happy Darcy made it. But like, I got bigger laughs than she did.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 11:01Sam Fragoso?

  Was there a friend in high school that kind of feels like she got bigger laughs or he got bigger laughs?

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Well, my very best friend, Lindsay, she is like the funniest person in the world, but like quiet funny.

• 11:12Sam Fragoso?

  And not class clown funny.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Right, right. And she, we always sort of have, not even a joke, like a truth that she would kind of quietly say a funny thing and I would say it louder and I would get the laugh.

• 11:24Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. To this day.

• 11:26Sam Fragoso?

  Amazing.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  I know.

• 11:27Sam Fragoso?

  But to this day, I feel like at this point, you have original material.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Right, right. I mean, not to say that's the only time I get a laugh, but we do have this dynamic where she will say something.

• 11:38Sam Fragoso?

  She got an Emmy nomination.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:39Sam Fragoso?

  Because of her friend.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  Because of me. Yeah, this is all for Lindsay. But you brought up the class clown thing. I did, I got class clown as a senior and I was like really mortified by that for some reason.

• 11:53Sam Fragoso?

  Why?

• 11:54Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 11:55Sam Fragoso?

  Well, tell me why.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  I was kind of like, class clown is like bratty, attention, ham, ham fam.

• 12:05Sam Fragoso?

  And did you take all compliments as insults?

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess so. Okay, interesting. Immediately, you're like, and you haven't been to therapy in a while, have you? And the answer is yes. Because the last time I went to therapy, she was younger than me and I didn't like that.

• 12:19Sam Fragoso?

  A younger therapist is tough no matter of gender.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:21Sam Fragoso?

  I think that's not, I think that's off.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  I tried a few and I was like, this can't work.

• 12:25Sam Fragoso?

  That's why my therapist, octogenarian.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 12:28Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  The only one with wisdom.

• 12:29Sam Fragoso?

  So you don't go to therapy anymore?

• 12:31Speaker 00

  No, but I would. I would and I should. There's something about the intake, the like first couple, I was about to say episodes. Wow. The first couple appointments, the first couple classes, what do they call?

• 12:42Sam Fragoso?

  Darcy.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  The first couple of meetings. Yes.

• 12:44Sam Fragoso?

  Sessions.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  I've gotten through five episodes with my therapist.

• 12:47Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I think you're treating it like a podcast.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:50Sam Fragoso?

  Like, could I do this session at 1.5 speed? Could I do that? Your father, I will say to bring up, or bring it back to therapy in some way.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:00Sam Fragoso?

  Your father told one publication, quote, "I always thought she was going to become a great CEO."

• 13:07Speaker 00

  He did.

• 13:08Sam Fragoso?

  "I kept trying to encourage her to run a company."

• 13:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:11Sam Fragoso?

  Now, I assume he didn't mean like a theater company or an improv troupe.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  No.

• 13:16Sam Fragoso?

  Is that something you wanted? What would that even have been?

• 13:20Speaker 00

  I think my dad, Dennis, he has like two sides to him, which is like the artist side musician. He would do theater growing up when I was growing up. And then like the businessman side. Like he ran a company.

• 13:32Sam Fragoso?

  By the tail end of high school, you're thinking about going to college, of course. Acting's on the mind a little bit. Your dad still kind of wants you to be a CEO of some company somewhere. What did you want?

• 13:45Speaker 00

  By the time I got to high school, not even the end, like freshman year, I knew I wanted to be an actor.

• 13:51Sam Fragoso?

  So once you get to college, I think it's in Oregon.

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, Southern Oregon University.

• 13:54Sam Fragoso?

  Did anyone try to dissuade you from becoming an actor? Were there any warnings?

• 14:00Speaker 00

  So all of the theater students that had come to this theater school, you know, this is, Southern Oregon University is like a heavily liberal arts theater theater school. So so many people, so many freshmen were there to become actors and beyond. And our main professor at Southern Oregon University, the great Dennis Smith, he wrote the statistics of like what, how impossible being an actor would be.

• 14:31Sam Fragoso?

  The improbability of it.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  The improbability. The, the numbers are not in your favor. And basically he was just like, if there is, if there is anything in you saying, maybe not this, don't do it. Which was really good advice and advice that I would give to 18 year old acting student right now. Which is just like, if you're kind of like this or that, go to that.

• 14:51Sam Fragoso?

  So you didn't have anything else in your head? What you had was acting?

• 14:54Speaker 00

  That was the weird thing. Because I am rational. I guess because I just like loved it so much. I remember like, reading in a book about acting. Who knows who said this?

• 15:06Speaker 00

  The person saying like, I wake up in the morning, thinking about acting. And I remember thinking, I do that too. That must mean, this is what I'm put on this earth for.

• 15:16Sam Fragoso?

  Wow. That's amazing.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I feel like, lucky that I knew so early, but also that could, that could have not worked out.

• 15:26Sam Fragoso?

  So you had an amount of delusion?

• 15:28Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly.

• 15:30Sam Fragoso?

  That is required.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  As grounded and realistic as I am, I must have a big, healthy spoonful of delusion. Because I, because I, I didn't, I don't know. I didn't panic. I didn't panic. I didn't, it's funny because we were talking about the insecurity of Brooke, you know, my character in Five Star. There's also a side of me that is overly confident. And that's dad too. That's my dad.

• 15:57Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's being raised in a very feminist household where my parents were like, you can be a major league baseball player if you want to.

• 16:05Sam Fragoso?

  And with that, you decided to go to New York City?

• 16:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:09Sam Fragoso?

  Undaunted, unafraid, not scared?

• 16:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:12Sam Fragoso?

  How did that happen?

• 16:13Speaker 00

  I, again, was, my whole childhood into high school, I was like, New York is the place for me. I am made to be here. We would land in JFK on like a family trip and I'd be like, I'm not kidding. I loved it. The sky is brown, the water is brown. I loved it.

• 16:29Sam Fragoso?

  What are you?

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Greek. No, oh, I don't know. And a little bit Turkish.

• 16:36Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  And German.

• 16:38Sam Fragoso?

  Good. All my questions. What you said that you're critical, you're overly analytical, you can be self-conscious. What is, when does that come up? Because if you're a kid saying, New York is for me.

• 16:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:50Sam Fragoso?

  And I am for it.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:52Sam Fragoso?

  Where does that happen then?

• 16:53Speaker 00

  I think that's when it happens. It's like in the 20s and 30s. Like, I wasn't getting the leads of all the plays or anything. It wasn't, and there are people that do, you know, where they like, I was still character actress number five on the call sheet, so to speak.

• 17:07Sam Fragoso?

  Even in college?

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 17:09Sam Fragoso?

  Freshman year, the only actor not cast?

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Sam, you're so good at this.

• 17:14Sam Fragoso?

  In your freshman class?

• 17:16Speaker 00

  The only actor in my acting class.

• 17:19Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Not in a show, my freshman year.

• 17:21Sam Fragoso?

  How does that person remain that delusional to go to New York? And I say delusion with love.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:28Sam Fragoso?

  I'm so impressed by this.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Okay, not to like, jump to the, by my senior year, I got cast as like the lead.

• 17:35Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, okay.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  So I think.

• 17:37Sam Fragoso?

  You fixed it.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  I think I was like, I really do think, maybe it's something about, I love that with acting, you can get better and you can like do the work and not every role is for you and not every shot is your shot. And I think I really learned that, you know, like, especially my freshman, you're not getting cast in any of the, the plays. I was, I was, I got to work with costumes and I got to work with like the box office. And you really get to see like how it is, the whole, the whole is made, the whole, how it's all made.

• 18:11Sam Fragoso?

  Sausage?

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, the sausage.

• 18:13Sam Fragoso?

  With the whole?

• 18:13Speaker 00

  With the whole. God damn it.

• 18:15Sam Fragoso?

  Well, can we talk about how you get good at this thing and then great at this thing, which happens in New York? And I want to do that after the break.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 18:24Sam Fragoso?

  That's coming up next with D'Arcy Carden. After I come home from a trip, the places I remember most usually aren't the ones I planned to visit in the first place. Let me give you an example. I was doing a few tapings in Philadelphia just a few months back. And in between those tapings, I'd have just a little bit of time to wander. And one morning, I found myself walking through this neighborhood called Society Hill. And it was early in the morning, there weren't that many people awake. I was grabbing a coffee and all of a sudden I noticed that a bookstore was just beginning to open. And I kind of sheepishly, but excitedly walked into this bookstore. And evidently, those are the moments I remember most about the

• 19:05Sam Fragoso?

  trip. They tell you more about a city than any guidebook ever could. And honestly, that's one of the reasons I've been thinking about listing my space on Airbnb. Especially when I'm away, whoever stays there gets to experience a part of Los Angeles that I've come to know and love. Not just the landmarks, but the rhythm of an actual neighborhood, a place with a kitchen, a comfortable space to come back to, and of course, a chance to feel connected to the city instead of simply passing through it. And if listing my space also helps offset the cost of my own travels, well, we'll call that a happy accident. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host.

• 19:47Sam Fragoso?

  It's funny how long it can take to build a good routine and just how quickly it can all fall apart. Summer tends to do that to me. My schedule changes, work takes me to different places, meals happen at different times and hours and friends and cities, et cetera. And suddenly the habits that felt automatic a few months ago require a whole lot more intention. As I get back into a rhythm, one thing I've been consistent with is AG1. It's simple, one scoop and eight ounces of cold water, and I know I've done something good for myself before the rest of the day takes over. AG1 is a daily health drink with multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants. Their next gen formula has more than 75 ingredients and is clinically shown to support gut health,

• 20:29Sam Fragoso?

  fill common nutrient gaps, and improve your key nutrient levels within three months. What I like most about it is that it doesn't require you to reinvent your morning. You can make an AG1 in about a minute and then get on with your day. I've really enjoyed having that kind of consistency in my routine, especially during weeks when everything else is moving around and ever changing. Visit drinkag1.com/talkeasy and get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a free bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 and your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's drinkag1.com/talkeasy.

• 21:09Sam Fragoso?

  Coming back, I want to say for the listener and viewer, delusion to me, that's a positive. You know, within reason, and especially about the arts. I mean, I don't know how you do any of this stuff. So you're at UCB, Askat, Seth Meyers, Amy Poehler, young Darcy, mid twenties, waitressing plenty, going on auditions a little bit, I think. And you walk into this dirty dingy place. It's probably nicer now. What happens?

• 21:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was the Upper Citizens Brigade in the like, early 2000s. I knew what improv was, but not in this way. I knew what kind of like, like, you know, whose line is it anyway type of improv, but I, zip zap. My God, it was like Jason Manzoukas was in there, Rob Riggle, Jack McBrer.

• 21:59Sam Fragoso?

  It was an all-star team.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  It was incredible. And they did long-form improv, which I'd never seen before. It was like, like going to heaven moment, like blinded by white light.

• 22:10Sam Fragoso?

  Good place?

• 22:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Who is to say? It was probably the biggest aha moment I'd had since like, sitting on my mom's lap watching Fantasy Forum.

• 22:21Sam Fragoso?

  At age two.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly. Yes. It just, it was like jaw dropping. My feeling was like, I need to be up there with them. Which is, which is also kind of delusional, right? It's not like, I'm enjoying the show. It's like, get me up there now. I don't know how to do that, but I need to learn how to do that. And I need to be on that stage with them. Like, it was my calling. Like, like something was really pulling me. And, and I started taking class the next day or signed up for class the next day. Like, I knew this was the answer. And actually, I'd been in New York for like, maybe a year and a half or so, maybe two years. And I was sort of coming to the end of it, honestly, like where I was like, I love it here, but it's not. This is like, the auditions, I was so clearly being told,

• 23:06Speaker 00

  like, this is hard.

• 23:07Sam Fragoso?

  You could only live in a tiny apartment with five people in Washington Heights for so long.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  Exactly. Shout out to Summer Ross. That's right. Yeah. It, in two years seemed like a great amount of time.

• 23:17Sam Fragoso?

  Delusion bought you 24 months.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 23:19Sam Fragoso?

  That's pretty good.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I was starting to think like, okay, I did New York. And truly, the UCB door opened and then I stayed for another decade.

• 23:27Sam Fragoso?

  So can you describe the time between that night you first fell in love with improv and when you first felt good at it?

• 23:35Speaker 00

  I feel like with improv or maybe like, learning any skill, there are different levels of like, feeling good. Cause I felt good right away. Like in level one, I was kind of like, hey, I got this. Like, I am good at this. And then probably level three, I was like, I'm the worst one. I'm dog shit. I should be shot. And that probably, maybe, I don't know if that's any skill, any art, whatever, you're gonna go through these weird ups and downs of like, getting good, getting bad, finding out more information, realizing how much you didn't know. It's, it's like everything in this goddamn business that I love. The ups and downs are so frequent and so on top of each other. And you could

• 24:18Speaker 00

  have a show where you destroy in one scene, you're hugging each other on the back line, and then the next thing, the next scene, you know, you say something that, that bombs. And which I think keeps you grounded and keeps you like, keeps your head not too big. Or an announcement comes out that they're making a movie with A, B, and C, and you realize like, that didn't even come your way or what. I mean, there's so, there is no time to like, think highly of yourself in this business, because there's always something the next day or around the corner that's going to tell you that you actually ain't shit.

• 24:53Sam Fragoso?

  And were you babysitting Bill Hader's children around this time?

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah. I mean, this is the funny thing. Like, when I was babysitting Bill and Maggie Carey's kids, I was, you know, deep in my UCB stuff, performing multiple times a week. What I wasn't getting is like, small potatoes. I wasn't getting like commercials, but I wasn't even getting, this is the thing, I wasn't even getting the auditions that would get me onto the TV show.

• 25:20Sam Fragoso?

  And at UCB, there's no money.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  There's no money. You get like, I think, a big goal of mine at UCB was to get on the traveling team. That sounds like a sports team, but like the touring company. And I feel like we made like, maybe $200 to like, travel for three days or whatever, which felt.

• 25:36Sam Fragoso?

  Well, that's because you're going to like, Poughkeepsie.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I mean, $200 felt incredible. But you can't pay rent on that, you know?

• 25:42Sam Fragoso?

  And so you did that primarily as the babysitter for Hader's kids, right?

• 25:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did. Yeah, that became my like, daily job that I loved so much.

• 25:52Sam Fragoso?

  What?

• 25:55Speaker 00

  No, I'm just, I was just talking to him today. I'm trying to think of if there's anything funny. I mean, I was like, yeah, it's such a funny thing. Like, like, that time in my life was a struggle, because I'm babysitting and I'm like, realizing that like, the career stuff isn't going my way. But I have such like fond memories of that time. I really do. Like, when I think of the time when I was babysitting the Hater Girls and doing so much UCB.

• 26:29Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, this is like 2010, early 2010s, New York.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  I was so happy. Abby and Alana, Paul and Lucia who do hacks. I mean, like, you know, the, the, the UCB list is, is long. And we were doing, we were doing shows, I mean.

• 26:48Sam Fragoso?

  This is the period of New York Gen Z like, romanticizes now.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  I know. Like, my heart is warm right now, thinking about it.

• 26:54Sam Fragoso?

  It's sad.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  We would.

• 26:56Sam Fragoso?

  Not that you enjoyed it, that it's, it's, it might as well have happened 50 years ago.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it, and I knew it was good while it was happening, which is good. I think that's great, actually, because it was a struggle, and it was hard to pay rent, and my dreams weren't coming true in a certain way. But I, but we would like, do this show every Saturday night in Brooklyn, and it would like, everybody would come. And then if we sold enough tickets, we'd go across the street and buy a bunch of beer, and then everybody would stay, and we would dance. And it would, it was like, and then we'd go out to a diner at like, 3:00 in the morning. And I was like, well, this is as good as it's gonna get. It was amazing, you know? And that was like, my life for years and years and years.

• 27:33Sam Fragoso?

  So when you're performing, is there a piece of advice, or like, instruction, or something in a class or a performance, or someone who, like a Poehler or something like that, that helped you, I don't know, get better at this thing that you love? And also maybe something that you still hold on to today as a performer?

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Like, someone saying, I'm on the right path, is sometimes all I need. But I have to believe it. You know? So thinking of my time at UCB or the beginning, it was like, class after class and rehearsal after rehearsal and show after show. And it was my life, my religion, my everything, everything. And, you know, you get the like, pop of the laugh from the crowd or whatever. You know, you're like, on the right track, but it's hard to know. And all it would take is like, a teacher that I loved and trusted, kind of saying like, that was really good. Or like, you really get this, or good job, or keep going. And then that, that is, like, it's someone steering, like, pointing my shoulders in the right direction. And I do remember Poehler doing my first show with Poehler, which

• 28:39Speaker 00

  was an Askat. I mean, that, to me, has never lost its like, glow. That the show that, the show that made me fall in love with improv, then I got to do every week. That's, that, I made it. That was it. Like, to me, that was like, hitting, I hit the goal.

• 28:57Sam Fragoso?

  But this is also balanced with the fact that like, you're married, pretty early.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:02Sam Fragoso?

  Like, 2010, I think you got married?

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's right. To the, to the beautiful Jason Carden.

• 29:06Sam Fragoso?

  Who had, who had been working at SNL at that point. Because that's the big difference, I think, of people in their twenties that you had is, it seemed like you were kind of with this guy from the jump. You had one thing very settled, while the rest of it was in complete disarray, kind of beautifully. Like, 3:00 AM diner, beautifully so.

• 29:25Speaker 00

  Right. And it felt like we were, we were in our, but we were so in it together, you know?

• 29:30Sam Fragoso?

  That, that group. So what was, it was, it was you, Abby.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  It was Abby and Alana, it was Paul Downs, Lucia, Chris Kelly, Brandon Scott Jones, Neil Casey and Fran Gillespie and Zach Woods and John Gabris. I mean, you know, the, the list.

• 29:50Sam Fragoso?

  So they, this was all like, the coterie that you guys, this was, this is the ecosystem. And I'm curious, there's this movie that comes out a little bit later called Don't Think Twice, with Mike Birbiglia. He wrote and directed it. And it's about a kind of ecosystem, like this Friends in Chicago, which is, there was a huge scene, there still is a huge comedy scene there. Did that movie help you answer the question that your friends and family had when they, when they asked, so what is it that you do?

• 30:19Speaker 00

  First, that, okay, I remember seeing that movie in the movie theaters with, with Drew Tarver and Betsy Sedarow.

• 30:25Sam Fragoso?

  And what did you guys think?

• 30:26Speaker 00

  We, we like.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  With all the love in the world to Birbiglia, we were like bummed after it. Why? I, I, I don't remember well enough. I just remember being like-

• 30:37Sam Fragoso?

  Cause you weren't in it?

• 30:38Speaker 00

  No, not that, although probably.

• 30:40Sam Fragoso?

  The reason I'm bringing it up is because the through line throughout the entire film is this kind of competitive streak that all of the cast members have with each other. And they're all auditioning for SNL. I think one of them, Kika Michael Key is the one who gets it. But that is part of this. I mean, it has to be.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Like, I hate to like, paint over it with, okay, let me mix metaphors with a, with a rose, with rose colored glasses.

• 31:06Sam Fragoso?

  Go to work.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  But I think that was one of the things, again, with all due respect to a great movie, that like, that got me was, was the competitiveness.

• 31:15Sam Fragoso?

  And you felt like that was not-

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Like accurate.

• 31:18Sam Fragoso?

  It's like adopted family.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:20Sam Fragoso?

  But you have a period where a lot of them-

• 31:23Speaker 00

  Are poppin'.

• 31:24Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. I mean, let's not pretend you were not in a class.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:28Sam Fragoso?

  Smoking cigarettes in Chelsea with Aubrey Plaza.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 31:33Sam Fragoso?

  Cloves.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, cloves.

• 31:35Sam Fragoso?

  And she thought, there's no chance I have a future in improv.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  That is true.

• 31:40Sam Fragoso?

  And I think a month later, she's in Funny People.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  That is very true.

• 31:43Sam Fragoso?

  So like, let's try to be honest about this experience, cause all the young people who do watch the show and who are trying to be in the arts, if they don't know any of this, I think we set them up to, you have to know that this is part of the equation.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  It's, it's hard. It's like, when you come, when, coming up at UCB, it really, the culture is supportive. And I mean onstage, offstage, and I'm not trying to act like there's no competition. You wanna get on the team. You wanna get on the stage. You wanna get the commercial that you're all at the same commercial audition for.

• 32:14Sam Fragoso?

  The best scene is one in which everyone's part of it and it's working.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 32:18Sam Fragoso?

  It's just like a basketball team. That makes sense.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  But there's also, if I'm on the back line and two, my two teammates are out there killing, I am happy for them. I'm literally like, I am like, 100% happy for them, happy for me, happy for the audience. And now I'm about to walk into the next scene and we're gonna build off of that. Like, it's all, it's, what's good for you is good for me.

• 32:38Sam Fragoso?

  Yes, but once you're outside of the theater, that's what I'm asking about.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  I think like, in the beginning, you know, just thinking about Abby and Alana, getting Broad City, like watching that happen. And then dear friends Chris Kelly and Sarah Schneider getting on SNL, writing on SNL. It's, and, you know, Zach Woods getting on The Office and Aubrey getting on Parks and Rec and everything. And Adam Pally, like, all of a sudden, it, it feels like we're all rising together. And then all of a sudden, it felt like I was being left behind. And-

• 33:12Sam Fragoso?

  And you felt that.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  I did, I felt that after a while. At first, it was like, holy shit, oh my God, we're gonna be on TV. You're on TV. We're gonna be on TV. You're gonna be on TV. Like, it's all, they're coming to our place, our home, to, to bring us to TV.

• 33:24Sam Fragoso?

  Yes, everyone's still at the same party.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then, and then after a while, and I wonder how long that was, was that months or years? I'm sure it was years. It's gotta be years. I started to feel like, like, oh, I got left at the party. And every, I got left at home. I got left at the party and everybody went somewhere else to another party.

• 33:40Sam Fragoso?

  It could be another party.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:42Sam Fragoso?

  That's tough.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is tough.

• 33:44Sam Fragoso?

  That's a worse image.

• 33:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's another party. It's a better party. Yeah. It's a bigger party.

• 33:50Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, doesn't one get resentful in a situation like that?

• 33:54Speaker 00

  I'm really like, searching my brain for resentment.

• 33:58Sam Fragoso?

  That's amazing if you have to search.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  I know. I, I, but that sounds like I'm like lying. And, you know, you brought up Aubrey, like, seeing Aubrey low. When, when she's like, I'm not gonna, they're gonna kick me off my, my improv team. And then the next month, getting a Judd Apatow movie. Like, you see the, you see people at their lowest and,

• 34:19Speaker 00

  you know, you see, it's not all like shiny Hollywood stuff. You, you, you see behind the curtain. And I, to me, that makes, made me more excited for people and more proud of them when, when things would go their way, cause you saw the struggle. It wasn't just the, the, the outside.

• 34:37Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, the, the, the outcome.

• 34:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:39Sam Fragoso?

  The result.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  It wasn't about like, them.

• 34:43Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  It was about, it wasn't about them winning. It was about me losing.

• 34:46Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 34:47Speaker 00

  You know?

• 34:47Sam Fragoso?

  That, that, it seems to be a kind of through line, is that like, you would never take out, uh, I don't know, your own disappointment on someone else. Like, I don't, I, that doesn't seem like you. And I know you've had, you've gone ups and downs of not getting things and all, and all this business. I think what I wanna know is, like, they auditioned for SNL, plenty of people did. Did you ever audition for SNL?

• 35:17Speaker 00

  I didn't ever audition. And, and to like, set up what it's like, especially in the New York comedy scene, is, there's like two different forms of auditioning for SNL. There's the sending in the ta, and by the way, it might be different now. But you send in a tape. That's the first step. And that, almost anybody could do. I mean, all you need to know is like, someone that can, you know, if you have anything near an agent, even, meaning like-

• 35:46Sam Fragoso?

  Agent adjacent?

• 35:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. If you have agent adjacent or your friend has an agent, there's a way for you to get the, the tape in. That's not like, too hard. But the, the second round would be, you know, like them asking you to come in and audition. But I never even did the tape part of it.

• 36:00Sam Fragoso?

  What part of it did you do?

• 36:01Speaker 00

  No, I never did anything.

• 36:03Sam Fragoso?

  You never did anything?

• 36:04Speaker 00

  I didn't ever make a tape. Every time it was like, the time of year where it was time to make your tape, I would sort of go, maybe I'll do it next year. Maybe I'm not ready, which, which I was.

• 36:15Sam Fragoso?

  Did you write up a fax?

• 36:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the, the, the furthest I went with auditioning for SNL, and this goes right on back to Nepo, baby, okay? This is probably like, I, I remember, okay, okay, I'm gonna paint, I'm gonna, I'm painting the picture for myself. I'm at a temp job. I'm like a secretary. Do we say that anymore? And my dad, I, I, okay, my dad, I call my dad, my dad calls me. And he says that our family friend, who is a standup comedian, Michael Pritchard,

• 36:49Speaker 00

  knows a guy. And he knows a guy that has the fax number for, for Lorne Michaels. And I'm sure it wasn't Lorne Michaels, but you know, for, for SNL. And you should, you should write him a letter of why you wanna be on SNL and fax it to him. And, you know, so I'm, however old I am, 22 or something, 23. Like, I, you know, I, I, I trust my dad so much and he is like so accomplished and, and, but this is like a world that he's, you know, he's not in. And I'm not really in it either, but for some reason, I know this isn't the way. But I do write, I, I did write a letter. I wrote a, I wrote a letter. I wrote a long letter.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  And then I, I left it in my datebook. Like, I folded it up and put it in my datebook. And I think it was, I carry a datebook with me.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  And every year, I just take out the old and save them and put in the new. And I kept that little letter in there for like a decade.

• 37:46Sam Fragoso?

  And, and it said what?

• 37:48Speaker 00

  I am not kidding you when I say I never went back and reread it. Not one time. I do that. I do that. I save things and I don't reread them. I do, and, and like, I'm waiting for the perfect moment to reread it.

• 37:59Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  It's like, the act of putting my characters on tape, putting like a, a funny SNL tape together, and submitting it, and not getting SNL, meant the death of a dream.

• 38:14Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  That I couldn't even admit to myself. So instead of knowing that, it was just like, I'll do it next year.

• 38:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  I'm busy, actually.

• 38:21Sam Fragoso?

  Is this why you didn't tell Bill Hader for three years that you wanted to be an actor?

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 38:27Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, my dad, who's like, um, he's like a go-getter. And, you know, self-made, very successful, like did, he did that all by himself. He was like, tell Bill. Talk to him. And there's something so, I cannot, I can't cross those lines.

• 38:47Sam Fragoso?

  You wrote up a fax to Lorne and you don't send it.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 38:52Sam Fragoso?

  You babysit Hader's children for three years, never once mention you're performing at UCB.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  I mean, okay, to be clear.

• 39:01Sam Fragoso?

  He knew a little.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  He knew a little, yeah.

• 39:03Sam Fragoso?

  Your husband is working at 30 Rock.

• 39:08Sam Fragoso?

  I cannot process, like, were you, was it because your life was so charmed? And your childhood so loving that you were like, I need to find a way to make this hard on myself?

• 39:20Speaker 00

  I think it's something, um-

• 39:22Sam Fragoso?

  I say this like I'm bothered. I was, I'm reading about this. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  I think there, I have something, okay, like, I think I, what is this about? I need it to come to me a little bit. I can't like bust a door down.

• 39:42Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Because then I will have deserved it. If it comes to me, that means that was worthy. I deserve this.

• 39:49Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Okay, so like if I'm using my relationships to get into SNL, I don't deserve it. I wormed my way in there. There was a crack in the door and I wormed my way in there. If I'm just performing, you know, seven nights a week at UCB, doing my best comedy I could possibly do. And one of the talent people from SNL sees it, then I deserve it. Does that make sense?

• 40:13Sam Fragoso?

  It makes sense based on the logic that you're using.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  And then with Bill, right? It's not me being like, hey, you know, will you watch my tape? Or will you watch whatever? Come to a show.

• 40:24Speaker 00

  It had to be on his terms, which was he was asked to do monologues at Ask Cat, and I was in the show. So the first time he saw me perform was, was, you know, I got to be doing Ask Cat. I don't know. It felt like I, like I do, I am glad it went that way. I don't, I don't wish I had done it a different way.

• 40:47Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Done it. I don't, I just, I don't know what, yeah, maybe I need to talk to my young therapist or whatever, but I don't know what this is. Something about feeling like I need to, I need to really earn it and deserve it. And it can't be just like, because I'm a good cheerleader.

• 41:03Sam Fragoso?

  Were you more comfortable with having your dreams not actualized?

• 41:07Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 41:07Sam Fragoso?

  Than the risk and vulnerability of asking someone to help?

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 41:14Sam Fragoso?

  You do know that, this is just my theory.

• 41:20Sam Fragoso?

  Say at the end of the second year of babysitting for haters kids, you said something just in passing and you got an audition. You know, they don't hire you because you're really good at picking them up from school.

• 41:35Sam Fragoso?

  Like you still have to be good.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 41:36Sam Fragoso?

  And you certainly don't get cast if you're not good.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  Right.

• 41:40Sam Fragoso?

  At least kinda.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 41:41Sam Fragoso?

  You don't get to stay if you're not good.

• 41:43Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 41:43Sam Fragoso?

  So it's like, there may be an in-between your go-getter father and your complete aversion?

• 41:49Speaker 00

  I know. I don't, it's interesting that you say like, would you rather not have your dreams realized? And I think that is.

• 41:56Sam Fragoso?

  The answer is yes?

• 41:57Speaker 00

  I think so. But I don't mean, I'm not saying that's a good, not even like.

• 42:01Sam Fragoso?

  There's no judgment on any of this.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, yeah, they're, they're, goals and dreams are really scary. And they're scary to say out loud. And they're scary to like, write on a piece of paper. And it's almost like the overwhelming fear of the possibility that they could not come true. And then you know it, and you know it, because I said it.

• 42:35Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm. And you were more comfortable risking it just never happening?

• 42:40Speaker 00

  I, I, I feel like I am brave. I feel like I go out on a limb. It's just in different, it's in different ways.

• 42:48Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  It's not, yeah.

• 42:49Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, the thing is, it does work out. Like you, you end up in this audition room.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:56Sam Fragoso?

  For the part of Janet in The Good Place. I think you auditioned the day after an episode of Broad City, which they watched, and then Mike Schur and Drew Goddard.

• 43:08Speaker 00

  Commented.

• 43:09Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, they, they watched this, this bit part you had in Broad City. They're like, oh, I really like this. And they gave you, I think they're called dummy sides.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 43:19Sam Fragoso?

  I've been told we have these. And by, I've been told, you told me. And you brought them. Now, tell me, tell me about this. Tell me about this.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  Okay, so I'll tell you what dummy sides are too, just in case you don't know. It's basically because of the twist of The Good Place, they wanted to give the auditioners fake sides. That basically got the gist of what the character is, but reveal nothing about the story. So if you've watched The Good Place, you know, there's this afterlife aspect. There's a sort of, is she or is she a robot aspect? And none of that is in here. So all I knew is that, okay, it says, should we, it says Janet, "Any age, cheerful, polite, and helpful, under all circumstances, sits at her desk."

• 44:02Sam Fragoso?

  By the way, any age.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  Any age.

• 44:04Sam Fragoso?

  Could be anyone.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  By the way, I'm not kidding. The woman that auditioned before me was in her 50s. And a teenager auditioned after me.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  So it is any age.

• 44:16Sam Fragoso?

  They're sticking to it.

• 44:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:17Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, I haven't read these before. And to set the stage and scene here properly, you did send these, I think, 17 minutes before you got here. So I'm, I'm so not off book.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I'm not either. I didn't read them over.

• 44:31Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  And I haven't.

• 44:31Sam Fragoso?

  But can I say one thing?

• 44:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:34Sam Fragoso?

  You're a good actor.

• 44:35Speaker 00

  Well, we don't have to be good.

• 44:36Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  We're just, yeah.

• 44:37Sam Fragoso?

  I'm at no risk of that.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 44:39Sam Fragoso?

  I'm ready.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  And the phone rings, she answers. Hello, welcome to the customer service line for Mommy and Me Dolls.

• 44:46Sam Fragoso?

  Wait, now I just remembered this.

• 44:47Speaker 00

  What?

• 44:48Sam Fragoso?

  You got an Emmy nomination for playing this part. And you were like, oh, I'm not off book. You did it for like, seven years.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  I did it for a long time. Is this a competition?

• 44:57Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  Why?

• 44:58Sam Fragoso?

  Did you?

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Do you want to do the Janet part and I'll do the customer part?

• 45:01Sam Fragoso?

  Obviously, I'm not gonna do that. That's gonna be even worse.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  This isn't, this isn't.

• 45:05Sam Fragoso?

  No, it's not a competition, of course. Why would I set myself to lose like that? No, I just, I want to rise to the occasion.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 45:10Sam Fragoso?

  Rise to your level.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Okay, you, you are, you will.

• 45:13Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Um.

• 45:13Sam Fragoso?

  Fuck, I forgot about the Emmy.

• 45:15Speaker 00

  No, don't worry about the Emmy. I'm sorry you didn't get an Emmy nomination for customer.

• 45:19Sam Fragoso?

  I tried.

• 45:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, was it exciting?

• 45:21Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:22Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  It was great.

• 45:23Sam Fragoso?

  Amazing, we'll get back to that.

• 45:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 45:24Sam Fragoso?

  Go ahead.

• 45:26Speaker 00

  Hello, welcome to the customer service line for Mommy and Me Dolls. This is Janet, how can I help you?

• 45:32Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I ordered one of your dolls and it came with only one eye.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  Absolutely, I can help you with that. Let me ask you a few questions. Did you purchase the missing eye extended warranty package?

• 45:43Sam Fragoso?

  No.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  That's okay. It wouldn't help you in this situation.

• 45:46Sam Fragoso?

  Well, can you send another doll? I need this by Thursday.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  Let me just check here. Okay, the earliest it can get there would be June 19th.

• 45:54Sam Fragoso?

  What?

• 45:54Speaker 00

  Of next year. That's June 19th, 2017, just to be clear.

• 45:58Sam Fragoso?

  This really sucks. Is there anything I can do?

• 46:01Speaker 00

  We do offer a few solutions in the event of a lost or missing eye. Option one, you can fashion a new eye out of household items, perhaps a marble.

• 46:10Sam Fragoso?

  I don't have any marbles.

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Okay, no problem. Option two, we recommend you give the one-eyed doll to your daughter and use it to teach her an important lesson about tolerance and superficial beauty.

• 46:21Sam Fragoso?

  No, that's insane.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Okay, option three, you can trade with a customer who has a doll with two working eyes, but who requested a one-eyed doll.

• 46:30Sam Fragoso?

  Does anyone request that?

• 46:31Speaker 00

  No, hardly ever. We have eight more suggestions, sir. Would you like to hear them?

• 46:35Sam Fragoso?

  No, I just want a refund. Can I get a damn refund?

• 46:37Speaker 00

  Absolutely, no problem at all. Now, I can credit it back on your card, or I can credit it to a little pretend doll card we made for the doll to carry in their doll purse.

• 46:48Sam Fragoso?

  Why would I ever want that?

• 46:50Speaker 00

  No idea, just thought I'd offer it as an option. Okay, you are all set. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

• 46:56Sam Fragoso?

  Why are you so cheery working for this terrible company?

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Am I cheery?

• 47:03Speaker 00

  That is so nice of you to say. You have a wonderful afternoon. Hangs up. Okay, that's it, yeah.

• 47:10Sam Fragoso?

  And just like that, you got the show.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:13Sam Fragoso?

  Leading to that audition, obviously, you were, you were just as brilliant then as you were today.

• 47:21Sam Fragoso?

  But did you have a similar moment, I don't know, in 2016 by that? Like, you had been in New York for almost 15, 16 years. You'd had that moment after two years of living in New York going, what am I doing?

• 47:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:34Sam Fragoso?

  Then you found Polar, UCB, that happens. But by that point, every person you listed had done pretty well.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:44Sam Fragoso?

  Abby Jacobson said, "Despite setbacks and things that I know throughout her career about this time, you remained optimistic." But those setbacks that we've talked about, like in this moment, had you come to some, I don't know, acceptance of where you were?

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, so by 2016, I had been in LA for three years. And LA, it's funny, like, New York, again, without sort of typical success, New York was sort of going like this for me. When I got to LA, it was like this. Like, it was, it was maybe a mistake to move here. It didn't feel right, nothing was happening. I was babysitting more than ever.

• 48:26Sam Fragoso?

  So it was like your early 30s?

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, early 30s.

• 48:29Sam Fragoso?

  Right, and you, you had been married by that point for a while.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think I was, yes, a lot of friends with a lot of success.

• 48:38Sam Fragoso?

  Are they starting to have kids at this point?

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Let's see, does anybody have a kid?

• 48:41Sam Fragoso?

  It's a little, it's a little soon.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't think anyone's in the kid phase yet. Maybe a few, but I'm like, that's early. McKinnon's on SNL. Like, it's really happening for everybody that I came up with. Yeah, there was definitely, like, thinking of some dark days in LA, talking to Jason, husband, and saying like, I don't think, I don't think this is gonna work out for me the way I like, thought it might. But, but like, but I'm okay. I'm coaching improv, I'm performing a lot of improv. I know, like, I love to act, I love to act. And you can act anywhere, you can act for free anywhere. And I don't mean like, on a, like, street. I mean, like, I can, and you could, but I mean, like, I can.

• 49:23Sam Fragoso?

  And you have.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  And I have, and I literally have, thank you. But I, you know, I can, I can stay in this world, but do a little bit of pivoting. You know, I mean, I guess what I'm saying is like, it's okay. Things are okay.

• 49:39Sam Fragoso?

  You had accepted that.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  I have accepted this. I'm like, it really was like.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  I'm like really pushing against saying an aha moment. But that is what it was.

• 49:49Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  It was more just like, okay, this is where my life is.

• 49:52Sam Fragoso?

  And at this point, did you want children?

• 49:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:55Sam Fragoso?

  Did you?

• 49:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:57Sam Fragoso?

  That was part of it.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 49:59Sam Fragoso?

  Cause you move here.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:00Sam Fragoso?

  With your husband. How, is that 20 years together, like?

• 50:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, a long time. We've been together for like 20 years.

• 50:05Sam Fragoso?

  So that's part of it.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:06Sam Fragoso?

  And then you also are like, okay, I'm gonna try to audition. And then it's kind of a no perfect thing for you.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  This one?

• 50:12Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  And it felt, and it's funny, like, I'm also a little bit of an audition self sabotager.

• 50:17Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:18Speaker 00

  Which I think a lot of actors are and a lot of actors aren't. A lot of actors like put 100% into it, but I, you get so many no's and to put 100% into it is like devastating.

• 50:29Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  And a lot of, a lot of energy and work that is almost like for nothing. This is one that I, I really put a lot of work into. And that mostly, the truth is, the real, real, real truth is, I didn't think I was gonna get this role. In fact, I like knew I wasn't gonna get this role, but I was so excited to audition for Mike Schur. And, and I just wanted to like impress him. I just wanted to like, to like do a good job in the audition, make him laugh, make him kind of like remember me. That's it. Does that sound like I'm lying? I, there is no part of me that, there, there's no world in which I could have gotten this role.

• 51:04Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  Except for the one that exists.

• 51:06Sam Fragoso?

  We live in.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Which is cool.

• 51:08Sam Fragoso?

  Doesn't sound like you're lying.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:10Sam Fragoso?

  Why, why are you asking?

• 51:11Speaker 00

  You know, like, like, does it sound like I'm like rewriting history? I just remember, I remember so clearly being like, like.

• 51:15Sam Fragoso?

  You're the one that has your own date book. We'd have to go back.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  And we could.

• 51:19Sam Fragoso?

  And we will. So that was you then, and you got this part. It goes better than you expected.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  It does.

• 51:26Sam Fragoso?

  You're in LA, you finally get like a thing that you, that you can like love and, and be great in consistently.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Thanks.

• 51:34Sam Fragoso?

  And in many ways, it feels like this all kind of culminates in season three, episode nine. This is when you play all the Janets, I think it is.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:42Sam Fragoso?

  Can we play a snippet of that?

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Okay. Oh my God. Just watch it.

• 51:48Sam Fragoso?

  With it.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  Okay. I suppose this outfit will do. Are you sure? I mean, wearing a floral print to an infinite void at this time of the nothing? So where are we exactly? We're not on earth, right? That's correct, cheety Janet, you're not. Your real body's dematerialized when you entered my void and your essences reconstituted themselves in this form. Cool, cool. And when you say void, oh, I mean a sub dimension outside of space and time at the nexus of consciousness and matter tethered to my essence. Does that help? It does not help, makes it way worse. Oh my God, I remember all the lines. I can't believe how much I remember that.

• 52:28Sam Fragoso?

  How was that?

• 52:29Speaker 00

  It's fine. I mean, I, it will never work for me.

• 52:33Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  It's like watching a different, uh.

• 52:37Sam Fragoso?

  Different version to yourself?

• 52:38Speaker 00

  Like a different language or something where I'm like, I can't understand this, it's, it's not for me.

• 52:42Sam Fragoso?

  Yes. And yet you seem to invent the language?

• 52:44Speaker 00

  No.

• 52:45Sam Fragoso?

  Cause you're pretty dialed in.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  Oh my God, you have to deliver. This is, this is not something to kind of like.

• 52:51Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, like this is, don't, don't just kind of like, you don't just have this. Like you need to fucking work.

• 52:57Sam Fragoso?

  And, and panic attacks before?

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, you know, maybe not like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it was like.

• 53:04Sam Fragoso?

  Do you get those often?

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Only a few times.

• 53:06Sam Fragoso?

  Do you take like beta blockers?

• 53:07Speaker 00

  No, I would like to, I wanna try that.

• 53:09Sam Fragoso?

  I've heard about those.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  I really wanna try that.

• 53:10Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. Antidepressants?

• 53:12Speaker 00

  No, I'm, I'm.

• 53:13Sam Fragoso?

  You've never taken anything?

• 53:14Speaker 00

  Uh uh. What? Well.

• 53:17Sam Fragoso?

  God bless you.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  No, I mean, what, what, okay, I never, yeah, I've never taken anything.

• 53:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, what do you, what do you?

• 53:20Speaker 00

  I love, I love like.

• 53:22Sam Fragoso?

  Life?

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:23Sam Fragoso?

  No, no, none of that. Five episodes of therapy, zero antidepressants, no beta blockers.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  I had like a shot of tequila before I did a nude scene on, on Broad City.

• 53:34Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, that makes sense. Okay. So for that amazing part, playing all the Janets, how do you, how do you not get overwhelmed?

• 53:44Speaker 00

  I, no, I did get overwhelmed. I mean, I, I think it was, I went into like a cocoon that was like a self-made cocoon that Jason really helped me with. Where it was kind of like, the outside world doesn't exist for this, you know, for, you know, the thing about making TV is it's like, you have work every day.

• 54:02Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, segmented.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Right. I would remember doing nothing else but this. Memorizing it, going over the physicality. I just, the way I was, the way I was like, you bitch, you have to fucking deliver. I held a gun to my head.

• 54:18Sam Fragoso?

  Darcy.

• 54:20Speaker 00

  That's how it felt. But it was fun. Should I have not said any of that?

• 54:24Sam Fragoso?

  I do think beta blocker may have been better than the gun to the head. But I don't know, maybe it works.

• 54:30Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 54:31Sam Fragoso?

  I've never taken it either.

• 54:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Gun to the head. Yeah.

• 54:35Sam Fragoso?

  And you got through it.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  I got through it.

• 54:36Sam Fragoso?

  You didn't fire?

• 54:38Speaker 00

  I didn't fire.

• 54:38Sam Fragoso?

  Let's not continue with this.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  Okay, oh, fire, fire, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was, I think it was a lot of self-inflicted pressure.

• 54:46Sam Fragoso?

  It sounds like a lot of pressure.

• 54:47Speaker 00

  I mean, to make a TV show, but still, it was like, yeah. It was, it was almost like everything that has ever happened in my life, this is like your opportunity to like prove that you're worth it.

• 54:56Sam Fragoso?

  And watching it.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  That you deserve it.

• 54:58Sam Fragoso?

  And having watched it now together, does it seem okay?

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Not for me.

• 55:03Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 55:04Speaker 00

  But that's okay, it never has, like, it never has and never will. You know what I remember is like watching that episode with Jason in our little apartment in Silver Lake. And when it was done, he like looked at me and he was crying.

• 55:17Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 55:18Speaker 00

  And I was like, oh.

• 55:19Sam Fragoso?

  That's a win.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  Okay, great.

• 55:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, I wanna talk about the present and where you're at and where we started this conversation.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  About the president.

• 55:25Sam Fragoso?

  And I don't.

• 55:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:26Sam Fragoso?

  So we're gonna take a break.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:27Sam Fragoso?

  I'm gonna come back, Darcy Carton. Over the years, I've come to appreciate the peace of mind built from ordinary habits. Financially, that means knowing what's coming in and going out, setting money aside consistently. None of it is particularly exciting, but I've realized that having a clear understanding of my spending gives me more freedom everywhere else in my life. That's something Monarch has made a whole lot easier. Monarch brings my accounts, investments, saving goals and spending all together in one place. So instead of piecing together my financial life across different accounts, I can actually see where I stand. I especially like the way Monarch helps me look forward, not just backward.

• 56:06Sam Fragoso?

  I can set a savings goal or map out a larger purchase and see whether I'm actually on track before I preemptively make it. And the weekly recap is useful for catching the smaller things, a spending increase, an upcoming expense or a change I might have otherwise overlooked. That kind of clarity has changed the role money plays in my life. I spend a lot less time wondering about it and more time actually making deliberate decisions with it. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code TALKEASY at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code TALKEASY.

• 56:47Sam Fragoso?

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• 57:31Sam Fragoso?

  It's a world-expanding, genre-bending movie for one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at mubi.com/talkeasy. That's MUBI, M U B I dot com slash talk easy for a whole month of great cinema for free. I think the best clothes you own are probably the ones you spend the least amount of time thinking about. They're just there when you need them. The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants or the tee you always reach for first. That's what I've always liked about Quince.

• 58:08Sam Fragoso?

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• 58:53Sam Fragoso?

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• 59:38Sam Fragoso?

  Coming back, when you were wrapping up The Good Place, did Ted Danson give you any advice?

• 59:44Speaker 00

  I really deeply, deeply, deeply love him. You know, I got so much, yes, yes, I got advice from Ted. And even when he didn't know he was giving me advice, I was taking it, you know? Like, he's such a wonderful human being. I love the way he lives his life. He's a fucking amazing actor, one of the best actors I've ever worked with by far. We were talking about what was gonna come next for me, what was gonna, what was, we were wrapping up, I keep wanting to say Five Star Weekend, we were wrapping up The Good Place and

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  we were having a little coffee at Crafty, I just remember it so well, and he said, "When, whatever comes your way next, it's gonna, they're gonna be wanting you to do Janet next. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna get a lot of Janet vibes coming your way." And his advice was just to stay as far away from Janet as possible, to do the opposite of Janet. And I thought that was such good advice, especially coming from Sam Malone, you know, somebody who'd probably been,

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  you know, everybody saw him as one thing and then he just, he's, he's, his career is so varied and he, I worship him, I worship the man, can you tell? So anyway, I took that to heart and have really made that like a, kind of a, one of my rules as much as possible is to like, do the opposite of the last thing I just did. Not just, yeah, yeah. It feels good as an actor to do that, but also it's, it's maybe just,

• 1:01:21Speaker 00

  you know what? I was about to say a smart move. I don't know if it's a smart move, but it is what makes the most sense to me.

• 1:01:28Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. I mean, A League of Their Own.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Sam Fragoso?

  Not a lot of similarities.

• 1:01:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:34Sam Fragoso?

  When you think back on that show now, what comes to mind?

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  The girls. I love those girls. I loved playing baseball with them. We were a team, a real, real, real true team, like, team first.

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  That was a special time, yeah. It was, you know, like, COVID times, we all lived together in a big loft apartment building. We ate meals together and drank together and went to concerts together and it was really wonderful. It was like a beautiful summer.

• 1:02:06Sam Fragoso?

  And the heartbreak?

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Sam Fragoso?

  When it didn't come back?

• 1:02:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Sam Fragoso?

  How, how, how do you reckon with an experience that you love and a show going as well as it sounds like it possibly could? How do you reconcile the like, wow, this was amazing and also it's over?

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's funny, it's like, it really is out of your control in a way that actors know deeply.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  So, there's no, there's nothing, it's like, the second it happens, something gets canceled, you don't get a part, you go like, okay. You go like, okay, what's next? You know, you kind of have to, I know. But you kind of have to for your soul and for your brain. And not that there's not like a mourning process, but I don't, I don't live in the like, like, how dare you, or, or like, that's unfair, like, I can't live there.

• 1:03:00Sam Fragoso?

  You, you really are a well-adjusted person, it seems. I mean this honestly.

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  I feel like you're being honest.

• 1:03:06Sam Fragoso?

  No resentment so far, that's what you've said.

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  There's a couple assholes.

• 1:03:10Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, well, give me them, all right?

• 1:03:11Speaker 00

  I will, right now. If somebody wrongs me or someone that I love, I want to murder them and I want to see them fail.

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Okay? So, I'm not saying I'm like,

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  yes, for sure, for sure. Yeah, easy.

• 1:03:40Sam Fragoso?

  I could have asked that, but I'm not.

• 1:03:41Speaker 00

  I know, I, I, I know. I know you could have and I-

• 1:03:44Sam Fragoso?

  I don't wanna do it to you.

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:03:45Sam Fragoso?

  It'd be funny, but I don't want it.

• 1:03:47Speaker 00

  Okay. Also, keep all this in and make them wonder. I don't care, I don't care. But yeah.

• 1:03:52Sam Fragoso?

  I don't, I actually think the detectives-

• 1:03:55Speaker 00

  Would know, yeah.

• 1:03:55Sam Fragoso?

  And the Darcy Carton detectives-

• 1:03:57Speaker 00

  That figured out real quick.

• 1:03:58Sam Fragoso?

  Are gonna figure.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Sam Fragoso?

  But I do wanna know, like, what does bother you?

• 1:04:02Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm not bother-free. I'm really not. Like, I am-

• 1:04:07Sam Fragoso?

  You do seem a little unflappable.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  I feel like I get flapped by dumb shit.

• 1:04:10Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  There's this character on Widows Bay who's brilliant. She gets, she orders food delivery, it comes and it's the wrong thing. And she is so frustrated and she picks up the phone and she calls the restaurant and she says like, she said, "You sent me the wrong thing." And she basically says like, "I, I don't want them to get in trouble, I just want them to know that they did this and feel bad about it." And I was like, oh no, I really, that's where I'm flapped, is like, little dumb mistakes. People being careless.

• 1:04:41Sam Fragoso?

  Something I am concerned about, and maybe you have issues with this, I don't know. Because you've played Janet for, for so long.

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Sam Fragoso?

  And you got the Emmy nomination, God bless.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:04:51Sam Fragoso?

  In the press, I think you have been broadly sympathetic, empathetic for robots. You've talked about the kind of sympathy you feel for, for poor Alexa.

• 1:05:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:03Sam Fragoso?

  I don't think anyone's asked you this since the AI boom, especially in this moment.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Sam Fragoso?

  Where they're threatening to take over all kinds of jobs, including the ones that you've been Emmy nominated for.

• 1:05:17Sam Fragoso?

  Where are you at on this? Like, is this something that bothers you, concerns you?

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  It's like, I still do feel, I, I, yeah, I have always had sort of like a sympathy for,

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  the way people treat robots. But we, I gotta say, like, it's so funny, talking about this type of thing, like that I feel bad for robots, is different today than it was 10 years ago or five years ago.

• 1:05:46Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, or three.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  It's so different. When I tell you I've never seen ChatGPT, I don't know what, it's not for me.

• 1:05:52Sam Fragoso?

  You think it's-

• 1:05:53Speaker 00

  I don't know, is it like a box?

• 1:05:54Sam Fragoso?

  I don't really know.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  I imagine it's like Google or something, yeah.

• 1:05:57Sam Fragoso?

  That you can-

• 1:05:58Speaker 00

  It's, it's for other people. I don't want, I don't want, I don't want none of that. I don't know it, I don't need her, I'm good.

• 1:06:04Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  Having said that, like, don't you feel bad for Pinocchio? Are you telling me when that little robot that's delivering someone's, I don't know what, food? And they put those computer eyeballs on him, that doesn't make your heart go,

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  "Right this way, buddy, do you need help?" Yeah, they got me, they got me. It's the person doing the thing, or the person that made the thing, that's like-

• 1:06:25Sam Fragoso?

  What about the person who ordered the food?

• 1:06:27Speaker 00

  Get off your fat ass. Cut that.

• 1:06:30Sam Fragoso?

  That was you who ordered it. You're talking about yourself, cut that.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  I say, get off your butt and go down to the store and get it yourself.

• 1:06:38Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, it's a good reminder, that was really sweet. But I, the reason I bring this up is because in that time in New York, the one that Gen Z now fantasizes about, girls, 2010, early 2010, early aughts, mid, like, 2015, 16, Brooklyn, all this business. When UCB was, I don't wanna say it's at the high point, but it was, it was doing great.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. We could say it's the high point, I think.

• 1:07:04Sam Fragoso?

  We could, I just don't wanna upset anyone, but, but the point is, you were not paid.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:11Sam Fragoso?

  You were not paid. And I think increasingly, there seems to be, you know, those places are struggling.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:17Sam Fragoso?

  And I do wonder if you think, when you think about young people who are trying to be artists, who say, "I'm young and creative and also I cannot afford"

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:07:28Sam Fragoso?

  "to be paid zero dollars."

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:31Sam Fragoso?

  Since the SAG strike, there are 160,000 people in the union.

• 1:07:38Sam Fragoso?

  14% of its members make at least $26,000, which is the bare minimum you need to make to get health insurance.

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  14%?

• 1:07:47Sam Fragoso?

  14%. I guess what I'm trying to get at, like, production is down.

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:53Sam Fragoso?

  Actors never had a hard time, crew members never had less jobs, and I'm trying to imagine like a young person who wants to be an artist. What the hell do you say to them?

• 1:08:01Speaker 00

  I don't know. I mean, it's, I do think, you know, the life of an artist is always, has historically been hard.

• 1:08:11Sam Fragoso?

  Precarious.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  And it's hard to make a living and it's hard to feed your family and it's hard to pay rent. And occasionally, through, I don't know what, a lot of luck and a lot of, you know, some other things, like, it can, it can work out, but the percentages are so low, as Dennis Smith, my professor, told us on day one of acting class. The weird thing about my path with, with doing UCB and not getting paid-

• 1:08:39Speaker 00

  It is, I'm like, well, it may, maybe it made me like a harder worker. I don't, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I'm like, looking at how did I get from point A to point B? And it meant that I had to be like really resourceful and I had to like pack my days full of, um, you know, I had, I had to, um, like, I always think of that time in New York as like head down work. Nothing handed to us, like scraping by, us, meaning, you know, actors in New York and, and UCB and, and all of that. Working in this industry is not a given. That's also part of it. You don't just get to.

• 1:09:14Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  I mean, all the people that are out, this is, has nothing to do, I don't think, with the people that are out of work, that have been working in this industry for years. And now we're in this like horrible time where, where work is down. But I think the people that, you know, it's talking to, I guess, a, a young person that wants to get into acting or art. It's not, you don't just get to because you want to, you know? There is so much work and, and hard times involved.

• 1:09:38Sam Fragoso?

  I think the reason I bring it up also is because every article written about you, and I do mean every article, of which I've read 90% of them. They call you a late bloomer.

• 1:09:48Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:49Sam Fragoso?

  And this is like a thing that happens on social media a lot. So I wanted to ask you this, where you see these posts who are going like, it's never too late.

• 1:09:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:58Sam Fragoso?

  To make your first film.

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Sam Fragoso?

  This person did it at 39.

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:03Sam Fragoso?

  Uh, and you're like, they're not, it's not, it's not that old. But it's always like, it don't ever, you're, you don't like your job? It's not a problem.

• 1:10:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:15Sam Fragoso?

  So as someone who's done it.

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Sam Fragoso?

  Who was a quote unquote, late bloomer, who's actually had the lived experience of doing it.

• 1:10:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Sam Fragoso?

  I want to know, is there a piece of that story that's often left out?

• 1:10:26Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:10:27Sam Fragoso?

  Is there something that you want to add? Either for young people or people 30s, 40s, 50s, whatever they are, whatever they want to do to, to make a pivot?

• 1:10:35Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:10:35Sam Fragoso?

  Is there something that you would add, having done and lived it?

• 1:10:38Speaker 00

  Such a good question. Because it is like, you're only looking at the, the.

• 1:10:44Sam Fragoso?

  Result.

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  The result. Right. So the, the, the journey along the way, like I'm, I know I'm saying it's great and New York was great and it was, and it is. But there are a lot, like, there, there, the struggle is, as they say, real. Like, there is a lot of self doubt and struggling and self worth, you know, like, like judging yourself and, and it's all wrapped up in, in itself. And, and when it's not working out for you, that can really affect who you are.

• 1:11:18Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  I think like, you know, when it comes to being a late bloomer, and a lot of it is the late bloomer that succeeded saying like, you can do it.

• 1:11:29Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:29Speaker 00

  That's not necessarily the case, right? It's not going to work out for every single person, but you have to kind of figure out what you're, what you're happy with. And, um, if it is what, where your like marker of success is, and if it's about your art, if it's about doing your art, or if it's about making money in your art, or if it's about hitting certain success markers. I mean, it's really like, a lot, a lot of, a lot of it for me was like, what do I love about this? And what, what is the reason that I like devoted my life to this? It's like being on stage with people that make me laugh and that I'm inspired by. You know what I mean? That's kind of what it was like, having a good goddamn time on stage with, with my friends.

• 1:12:13Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:14Speaker 00

  And when I kind of realized like, that's the whole point of life for me, that's when things started to really like feel right, feel okay. And then it wasn't about hitting a marker of success.

• 1:12:24Sam Fragoso?

  The whole point of life for you is the time with your fellow performers?

• 1:12:30Speaker 00

  That is really actually true. And it has, even, even in, in, in success.

• 1:12:36Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:37Speaker 00

  I'm realizing more and more that the outcome is so much less important to me than the day.

• 1:12:43Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:44Speaker 00

  Of doing the thing. I mean, you know, again, that's not like goal oriented. That's not like, I'm going to be number one at the box office. But it is like, I come home and I'm, and I'm like glowing, jazzed. I'm so happy. I had such a good day acting with my friends.

• 1:12:59Sam Fragoso?

  So after all this acting with your friends, to bring us back to now.

• 1:13:03Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:04Sam Fragoso?

  You just finished the five star weekend, working with all these great performers.

• 1:13:08Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 1:13:09Sam Fragoso?

  Um, given all that we replayed and talked about, where you were and where you've been, what do you want?

• 1:13:15Speaker 00

  I just want, I want to keep doing this. Like I, I.

• 1:13:19Sam Fragoso?

  The show? We do have to.

• 1:13:20Speaker 00

  But we don't have to. You're saying we have to because you're just saying, we don't have to. Do these run out of batteries?

• 1:13:27Sam Fragoso?

  I can't answer. No, they don't.

• 1:13:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Speaker 00

  Brian, Brian?

• 1:13:31Sam Fragoso?

  Good.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  Thank you. Roy?

• 1:13:33Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Speaker 00

  Um, I think I like, to put it simply, I love acting so much. I love it. I love it. It's, it is my biggest joy. And, um, I feel so lucky that I get to do it. And I just want to keep doing it. You know, getting to work with, with Ted and getting to work with Henry, Henry Winkler, and getting to work with Anne Doud. I'm seeing these like incredible actors that have been doing it for so long and they're, and they're delivering such incredible work, powerful work, hilarious work.

• 1:14:11Sam Fragoso?

  Examples of things you want to do.

• 1:14:13Speaker 00

  Exactly. I can see it right there. And I, and, and yeah, examples of, of how I want to do this.

• 1:14:18Sam Fragoso?

  So when you were back in New York, finding your way at UCB, long before everything we've talked about, um, you said, a lot of us back then were character actors that were a little too young to be finding any sort of success. We all played 50 year olds, but we were 20. So you're nowhere near 50, of course, but. Nice.

• 1:14:40Speaker 00

  Thanks.

• 1:14:41Sam Fragoso?

  Is that, is that the move now? Is that like kind of where your head, is that what you want?

• 1:14:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, that's what I, like, I, I am so, I am such a character actor in my bones that, like, they're, they're, I don't feel, I mean, I definitely, I know that all I'm sort of told from the world is that an actress hits her 40s and then she's done. But I don't believe that. The women I love watching are over 40. The women we all love watching are over 40. Like, I, I'm, I'm, I feel so excited to, to, to keep going. You know, like, that, that's kind of, that's where the fun is for me.

• 1:15:20Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  I never was an ingenue. I'm never, I never wanted that. That wasn't me. I wasn't, I, that's not what I was put on this earth for. So, so, so I'm good. I'm good. Like, I can, I can keep doing this until I croak.

• 1:15:34Sam Fragoso?

  It feels like the only place we could end is us finishing out the, uh, the dummy side scene.

• 1:15:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think you're right.

• 1:15:40Sam Fragoso?

  Is that right?

• 1:15:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:41Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:15:42Speaker 00

  Do you mind that I have a big monologue?

• 1:15:43Sam Fragoso?

  No, I don't.

• 1:15:44Speaker 00

  It's big. Okay. Let's just, let's, okay. And you get to play Eleanor.

• 1:15:48Sam Fragoso?

  Great.

• 1:15:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:15:49Sam Fragoso?

  I won't do that well either.

• 1:15:51Speaker 00

  No, you're.

• 1:15:51Sam Fragoso?

  But I'll do my best.

• 1:15:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:15:52Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. Interior call center, morning. Janet shows Eleanor around the office. She delivers all this information in a pleasant informational tone, i.e. not gossipy, just precise and straightforward.

• 1:16:03Speaker 00

  Isn't that interesting? Isn't that good direction?

• 1:16:05Sam Fragoso?

  Great direction.

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  For someone that doesn't know anything about this character.

• 1:16:07Sam Fragoso?

  Not gossipy.

• 1:16:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, the kitchen is in the back and it contains a variety of snacks and drinks, including six kinds of soda and three varieties of water.

• 1:16:16Sam Fragoso?

  Cool. Where are the bathrooms?

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  There are two bathrooms in the east wing of the building and another two just past the door there. I should tell you that the toilets in both women's rooms are defective.

• 1:16:25Sam Fragoso?

  Defective? How?

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  The one in the east wing of the building has no seat. And the one just past the door there has a faulty pipe that will spray you if you flush it. Also, warning, both bathrooms contain offensive graffiti. One has a drawing of Vice President Bonsler staring confusedly at a human ass and a human elbow, ostensibly to indicate that he can't tell the difference between the two. And the other has large letters that read cryptically, tit jungle.

• 1:16:55Sam Fragoso?

  What does that mean?

• 1:16:56Speaker 00

  Unclear. One theory is that the author had more to say, but was halted prematurely when a third party entered the bathroom. Another theory posits that this message simply intends to conjure an image of an entire jungle made of tits.

• 1:17:10Sam Fragoso?

  Yikes. Has anyone reported that?

• 1:17:12Speaker 00

  Oh, yes. Both to maintenance and to HR due to the obvious hostile work environment implications. But we can't get it fixed because Calbert, the head of maintenance, carries a personal grudge against Leo, the office manager. So Calbert refuses to fix the problems.

• 1:17:27Sam Fragoso?

  What's the grudge about?

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  Calbert, the head of maintenance, feels that Leo, the office manager, cheated during a game of trash can basketball 11 months ago, a charge Leo vehemently denies. It seems Leo hit a long hook shot with a crumbled up piece of paper from 30 feet away, but it banked off the hanging fluorescent light before going in. And Calbert, the head of maintenance, claims that Leo didn't call bank to indicate he was attempting a bank shot. It led to a fistfight in which Leo punched Calbert in the throat and permanently dented his trachea. And the two haven't spoken since. Okay. Is there anything else I can help you with?

• 1:18:01Sam Fragoso?

  I don't think so. Thank you, Janet.

• 1:18:03Speaker 00

  My pleasure. Have a wonderful day. All right.

• 1:18:08Sam Fragoso?

  Really well done.

• 1:18:09Speaker 00

  Thanks. I, I, I haven't read it in 10 years.

• 1:18:11Sam Fragoso?

  You haven't read that?

• 1:18:12Speaker 00

  In 10 years.

• 1:18:13Sam Fragoso?

  10 years.

• 1:18:13Speaker 00

  I was, I, I wasn't sure if I still had it. I was so happy I did.

• 1:18:17Sam Fragoso?

  10 years ago.

• 1:18:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Sam Fragoso?

  Could you have imagined? That it would have played out the way it played out. Like, if you were to do episode six of therapy.

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:28Sam Fragoso?

  And you were to hold it for a second.

• 1:18:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:30Sam Fragoso?

  How are we doing?

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  Like, like, um, wildest dreams come true territory, for real. And that's just this alone, let alone, you know, getting to do the other things. Barry and Lee and Five Star and Broadway and, I mean, not to, Jesus Christ, to like, name my resume, but just like, when I think of the things.

• 1:18:57Sam Fragoso?

  This is the rest of your resume.

• 1:18:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, great, okay, so you read it. No, I, I, like, when I think of the things that I've gotten to do in the last 10 years, it's, it is like, it is beyond wildest dreams. Yeah, for me.

• 1:19:10Sam Fragoso?

  And that made you emotional now, why?

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  Because it's so, it was, it, it, it so wasn't a guarantee. It was not, it wasn't happening. It wasn't gonna happen, that's why, because it wasn't gonna happen. And, like, somehow it happened.

• 1:19:33Speaker 00

  I, I, like, there's a different version where I, like, I, I would have this thing on the way home from shooting the show. From, from Good Place. Two things, some, okay, I'd be driving home and sometimes I would think, this is so, everybody has this, but I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna be so bummed that this was all a dream. And the other one was that, driving home, I, I, I would think, I got in a car accident and I'm dead.

• 1:20:04Speaker 00

  And this whole thing is not real. It seemed too good to be true and, and there was gonna be something that, that, like, punched me in the face to say, like, this didn't really happen. This is, this couldn't possibly happen. So I just feel like, I know I did a lot of hard work and I struggled a lot, but I feel so lucky. I feel so lucky.

• 1:20:25Speaker 00

  And I, I, I still feel so lucky, like, getting to work with the women I'm working with right now, on Five Star, is, is a dream come true. I am, I am gigantic fans of each of these women for years and now I get to, like, be in scenes where I'm staring in their eyes. That, that's a dream come true.

• 1:20:44Sam Fragoso?

  And certainly beyond the dreams you would ever dare to share with others.

• 1:20:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, can't say it out loud.

• 1:20:51Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for all the time.

• 1:20:52Speaker 00

  You're so great, you're so good at this. It's really a pleasure. I feel honored. I do. I do think that this is like a lost art form, what you're doing, and, and, and easier to not do what you're doing, because people are, there's a lot of, um, reward for not doing all of this work that you do. And, you know, you're not skating by at all, you really, like, put the time in and so I'm glad that you're doing what you're doing.

• 1:21:21Sam Fragoso?

  That was maybe the nicest compliment I've ever received on this show and I'm, I'm not great at accepting them. Maybe if I did five to seven more episodes of therapy, I would be. But thank you.

• 1:21:49Speaker 04

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• 1:22:03Speaker 05

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• 1:22:05Speaker 04

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• 1:22:11Speaker 04

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